Video: Chatting With Seth's Bike Hacks

 Seth makes some of the better videos of the you tube people out there. His commentary is good and he's proficient at editing and consideration of camera placement. What I think he's best at is conveying a story without too much BS that people would rather not see. I had a chance to ride with Seth at Whistler a few weeks ago sessioning Dwayne Johnson and filming. He's as nice as he comes off in his videos and a great rider.

 When you say you were sessioning dwane Johnson, what does that mean? @specialev:

 @bikekreig He got me interested in Mountain Biking. And Im sure that he got others interested as well.

 Seth's channel is great as he does more than just "hey look at me riding my bike and my flamboyant personality" (insert singletrack sampler here) he does alot of good how to videos and taylors his channel to helping beginners and showcasing products etc. Just like Skills with Phil who is a multi national collegiate DH champ he has some really cool content and gives something to the mtb community. If your not giving something to the mtb community I figure your channel is not worth my time. My channel, I just showcase the trails I ride, I don't make money, and everyone's channel that is under 1000 subscribers makes $0. I personally just enjoy making videos and sharing where I ride as in the northeast, there aren't alot of people riding the stuff I ride...

 Seth is one of the most well-known mountain bikers in the USA, and for good reason! I'm a huge fan of his channel!

 @JeffWeed: personally I'm a huge fan of Jeff Kendall Weed's riding

 Why are youtubers a controversial topic?! Does someone lose sleep over a youtube channel? Is it like Ok gesture being a symbol of white power? #notok ?

Because Seth, Cathro Vision, Skills with Phil, Ali Clarkson and a dozen of other ones are fkng awesome. And if you watch bad ones, then it’s your own problem.

 @projectnortheast: I don't feel like Alex (singletrack sampler) is narcissistic at all, as your perception seems to be. He's just a super enthusiastic person. I guess to some that's off-putting, but I know a lot of people love him because of that. But if you watch his videos you'll see that he's all about a community. He's always very encouraging to newer riders, and gets just as excited when they clean a difficult feature. And he's been that way the whole time, even when he only had a few hundred or a few thousand subs.

 @WAKIdesigns: i believe YTers are "controversial " in part due to jealousy ( ie me Joe Generic Cube monkey is so much better i could do this. Also a general adverse reaction to look at me personal branding.

Illogical I agree

 Seth is great! He was my first dive into YouTubers and it has been so fun, educational and inspiring. He’s also been my gateway to other great mtn channels. I think he and the gang have really contributed to my love of mtn biking and the biker community. The man has mad skills, nice guy and works his ass off. Glad PB had him in on but could have chosen a better thumbnail for him.

 They are getting a huge number of kids on bikes and trails (or just keeping kids on mountain bikes by showing them how much fun they are). They are doing what the bike industry and local bike associations havent been able to do: reach this generation of kids who get all their media from Youtube and social.

I dont watch Seth much anymore but I can see all the young kids on his channel and see how vital youtubers like him are to keeping this sport alive and making sure bike trails continue to be needed and built.

 @DONKEY-FELTCHER: it's a trail in whistler. Mach speed hill into a nice and long step up into a fun drop and a final little booter. A must ride if in the area.

 @WAKIdesigns: It's controversial because the word "youtuber" evokes a loud, derivative, smarmy, grating, cloying, supplicating human trash heap. That there are excellent youtube channels is almost incidental... not watching bad ones is like surviving a mine field where the dirt will kill you and you gotta step from mine to mine

 @ianmp: sounds like you have a rough life.

 @DONKEY-FELTCHER: I just want to say that your name is inspirational. I look for cool names for when I build trail or trailfeatures as I have no imagination and I will probably name something after this nick

 @GeorgeHayduke: some people complain about Youtube, some complain about complaints. Cheap thrills for all

 I rode with Alex(singletrack sampler) back in '15 at Mulberry Gap before he even started the channel and I can say he is one the coolest guys I've ever ridden with. His stoke is genuine and I had a great time hootin and hollering our way down some sweet trails he was kind enough to show me. Keep it up!

 @huntstyle: I mean your probably right, I'm not saying he's not a great guy, I'm sure he is, and I'm sure I would take the chance if given to ride with him and show him around some stuff few ride but is awesome. But, I think it's the style of video and content for me. I'm not much into vlogging, I don't care what anyone had for dinner etc etc. that's kinda why I'm drawn to Nate hills, or Jeff Weed, or Phil, because their stuff is mostly about the riding and I know any one of them would be competitive and still are competitive in pro racing.

 @thenotoriousmic: Yet in spite of all that he's closing in on 1 million followers. Hmm, must be doing something right.

 @thenotoriousmic: I see what you're saying although there's room for all surely. You're right to point out the cultural shift in the sport and ludicrous costs BUT therein lies his appeal to his base i would presume. Some of his advice might be off base to yourself (you are a major enthusiast, skilled, and crucially you ride ALOT that much I know Mike!) but to millions i think his 'every man' approach is what is winning so many fans over. Not everyone is an aspiring Josh Bryceland, as much as I too enjoy their shtick. We all have different reasons for riding. Humour is also subjective of course, some idiots i know love The Big Bang Theory for instance...its easy to judge. I do it often enough. I've dipped into his videos occasionally and there is a self deprecation there which generally wins people over- he is quick to point out his flaws in almost every shoot he does that I have seen. The content is well produced which is advantageous.

 As a longtime cordcutter that tries to spend more time outside/riding than marinating in media... I stumbled upon Seth, Alex, Phil, Cathro, BKXC and now Bobo (lol) simply looking for trail intel. The ability to preview new trails with suggested routes outside my state, etc. was a game-changer. I ended up referencing their content enough to guilt myself into contributing some $dough$ (How much did we drop on maps back in the day?!). Despite personality differences, the genuine love of the sport is what's contagious. Keep it up Y'Tubers!

 @thenotoriousmic: Actually, as of the beginning of this year he got a comfortable pair of knee pads and said he intends to wear them every ride. Regardless, why do you care? 80% of the people I see on my local trails don't wear knee pads, either.

 @huntstyle: I don't know anyone who wears knees riding trail / AM... well I have a few older friends who are new to the sport that do.

 @huntstyle: Totally agree!

 @thenotoriousmic: Look dude, I tend to be on your side of the fence in that my friends and I like to think we ride at a relatively high level and have a hard time not looking down on those that don't...that said, the majority of the MTB community is fairly low on the spectrum of skill, and you have to keep that in mind when you start criticizing the people they like, especially positive figures for the sport (e.g any of these YT channels promoting the sport we love...)

I haven't watched much of Seth...but after clicking around a few of his videos, I will say there appears to be a very positive underlying theme: if you can't do something, work hard at it and eventually you'll be able to.

I don't know about you, but I think that's a message worth circulating....and I don't really care if it's being done by someone who I could drop on any trail...there are plenty of guys out there that could do the same to me.

 @thenotoriousmic: You're going to have to accept that you're not the target market. That's really there is to it

 @nvranka: perfectly put. I wanted to defend Seth too, but no sense in regurgitating what you already perfectly said.

 you say he has no skill. That's part of the allure. He is better than he used to be. He tries to improve. Also, Seth is better than most riders, that's how many people ride. Most people don't wear knee pads, btw. That comment alone is beyond weird, and I don't think you realize how douchey that sounds

 @thenotoriousmic: he may be the king of Joeys, or a president. But that’s the point. As I wrote elsewhere, he is relatable to them because his level looks within their grasp (even though more often than not it isn’t) it’s worth mentioning that he rides better than me. I am a member of Ryan Leech Connection and trust me it is amazing to see people progress. In most situations it takes more effort and courage from them to do a 2ft drop off or bunnyhop up a curb than hit crabapple hits by some shit kid in tank top.

 @WAKIdesigns: I think you actually may be the king of joeys, sir.

 @nvranka: I am aiming for the title of the King of the trolls. Joey worship doesn’t interest me at all. I sympathize with them online but hate meeting them in real life.

 @thenotoriousmic: that's strange...rode with Remy M in whistler, he was on a trail bike with no knees...

Seen plenty of footage of other pros without knees on trail/AM...

It's a comfort thing...not smart, admittedly, but I do it too...

It's sort of the MTB equivalent of bmx sans helmet, which is obv worse.

 @thenotoriousmic: u drank too much haterade bro!

 @thenotoriousmic: A lot of mountainbikers don't ride at a high level and can relate to seth. Thay said you're arrogance at supposedly being better at seth in riding bicycles reflects very poorly on your character. There are more important things in life than being able to ride a bicycle well.

 @nvranka: good point. Just curious (seeing as you and your friends like to think you ride at a higher level), do you think you're better than seth or drop him on the trail? The guy has some skill on a bike (see his vid with ali clarkson for instance) although he is not a pro.

 @Bike078: lmao references a video of seth failing at trials...you trolling bro?

 @nvranka: I just mean he can ride trail and some obstacles decently. My honest question was do you think you are better than him?

 @nvranka: and do you have any videos of yourself shredding? I'm just curious about others claims of competence on pb. I've even watched Waki's bunny hop attempt video.

 @thenotoriousmic: Seth's popularity is simple. He has the combo of riding better, wrenching better, explaining it better and has more video production skill than anyone else. Gwin rides better, but loses out on the other three, for example.

 @WAKIdesigns: why is the kid a shit because of the tank top or doing things you can’t do?

 @loganflores: Oh Jesus, because in my life I've seen a few kids with more balls than skills talking crap about anyone who doesn't dare to do what they do. So my resentment is purely a reaction to theirs. In fact you can see a few examples in mike Levy's humbled where a few toughs say with those skills he shouldn't be a bike jorunalist. And how do you know I wouldn't hit crabapple bits? is it so hard? Does it take so much skill? And if I do hit it, what else can a park rat offer to the world? Supports crappy weed dealers and shitty beer industry? Buys Pasta Sauce and frozen Pizza? Ridicules owners of pricier bikes as dentists as a way of evangelizing people to buy modest bikes? Tells Fest riders they rule and call Sam Hill a legen? Help me out mate, what else can they do? deliver pizza they eat?

 today I went over the bars and my knee pad caught on something and got pulled down and I landed on my unprotected knee and now I’m limping so come on which one of you joeys are going to admit you put a curse on me for not fully respecting the joey king and how do I lift it?

 @WAKIdesigns: that’s a bunch of generalizations. That’s why I commented. Assuming “park rats” have nothing to offer. I used to get a lot of shit from pompous wannabes talking down to me showing up to the double blacks on a hardtail wearing a tee shirt and dickies. I’m not a park rat I ride everything. People judging based on the cover is bullshit you would have never guessed I used to wear Lycra and race xc.

 @loganflores: are you for or against riding double blacks on hardtails? I’m confused

 @thenotoriousmic: sorry no I’m not people looked at my attire and bike and assumed they were better than me because I wasn’t on a nice full suspension dh bike or enduro bros on the trail doing the same.

 That’s bichin @leelau:

 @WAKIdesigns: The beer in Squamish is good. Check out Howe Sound Brew and Pub when you are up that way. I haven't tried many of the beers in Whistler, the one I had was good. Fair warning, prices are a bit high in Whistler. Do not be surprised if you have to take out a mortgage to get home.

 @loganflores: I don't judge by the cover and I don't put all park rats into one bag. But there is a certain kind I can smell from a mile. By their bipolar intimidating/intimidated face expression. Super toughs near a Joey, cock suckers next to a ripper. Talking shit in the lift queue about everyone around, particularly about slow dudes with fast bikes, they just can't deal with their jelaousy. Scanning everyone's bike and riding kit top to bottom. I hated it when I was riding XC frame with Manitou Axel and hate it today when riding my boutique bike.

 @thenotoriousmic: I don't ride with knee pads, never have either. Unless i'm strictly DH one day and I don't own a DH bike so that doesn't happen.

 Knee pads & full face while comfortably clearing 30ft on a trail bike:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSM30aonVeE (5:42)

 @WAKIdesigns: I see unfortunately that’s a pretty apt description for the a*sholes on the side of the trail talking shit about kom’s and enduro gear.

 @loganflores: well they don’t bother me because I know they can’t ride and I have ridden numerous halo bikes, knowing they aren’t much better than regular bikes. You seem to subscribe to this opinion so I don’t know what’s your problem with them. Being a better rider than they are you should be rather comfortable with your manhood around them.

Funny you talk of Enduro Bros because they just make me laugh, meanwhile DH for life park rats irritate me deeply, particularly ones slower than me. I don’t know why they stuck their nose up as if they were a part of some elite. Well I know a bit of elite and none of them have this attitude. Like today, at the trail center, a beefy dude with giant shoulders and moto shorts comes into the bar. One look at what bike he hanged on a rack. A 4X HT. That buddy would climb up on a single speed and on the way down he’d fk up every single dude on that mountain on any of its tracks even if they had Enve and Di2 equipped UNNOs with PUSHed suspension. Did he look down at anyone like some twats on old Glorys? Ummm no.

 @WAKIdesigns: it’s not about questioning my manhood it’s about people being dicks the same type of person exists in all forms of cycling from the roadies to enduro I don’t like any of them. I also despise people who slow everyone down. Seems like we are in agreement this time around. Let’s all ride what we brung and don’t be a dick.

 @loganflores: yes don’t be a dick is the 11th commandment found on Death Sea Scrolls.

 @loganflores: real riders ride hardtails mate. Only weaklings require rider aids.

 @WAKIdesigns: I don’t remember writing that?!

 @thenotoriousmic: I pretty much only ride hard tails what are you accusing me off!

 @ceecee: isn't that just the Dwayne Johnson gap? Pretty mellow tbh

 @nvranka: its three hits on a "Pro Line" off the Whistler DH trail. So well built that they're not terribly difficult but definitely something to which beginner and intermediates can work up

 @nvranka: main point for discussion above is that he's wearing knee pads.

 I agree. I like Seth, Phil, BCPOV, and Jordan Boostmaster. Singletrack Sampler and The Loam Ranger both have great videos, but talk a little too much for my liking, it's a tough balance to strike, don't mean it as offense to any of them. I really appreciate the hours of "virtual mountain biking" I get to do at work because of them!

 @laxguy: Another Seth fan here. But the only other guy I watch/follow is Jeff Lenosky aka the Trail Boss. Both guys have mad skills and make excellent videos.

 @laxguy: I cannot stand Singletrack's content. Just something about that guy and his constant talking that annoys the shit out of me haha

 @makripper: It's how things are done these days. People jump on the youtube money making bandwagon.

Same thing as Twitch. Paying/donating money to watch somebody play games haha

 Don’t forget Bryan (BKXC) and Nate Hills, of course, the grandfather! Not you old, Nate @laxguy:

 As a platform, YouTube can and has done great things for the mtb community. This article is the culmination of that. I think what is being argued here is the “vlog” style of certain videos. To each his own, but I love every one of these guys and what their channels have accomplished over the past few years. The commentary and great gimbal footage are just a plus. @bartb:

 @makripper: I don't know if there's a YouTube channel for it, but I have seen the ski and snowboard hordes hoot and holler off little drops and treat two inches of fresh snow as if it were waist-deep powder.

 @makripper: Biking/skiing/snowboarding is as fun as you make it. Are you telling me you don't hoot and holler off a little drop or laugh like a little girl when you make stupid, silly mistakes on stuff? Progression is great, but it comes in different forms. Sometimes it's clearing Crabapple Hits. Sometimes it's clearing a greasy rock garden. Sometimes it's trying to hop on to a picnic table or manual across something.

I've skied epic, chest deep pow days in Europe, but one of the best days I've had on skis was on a crappy little hill in Saskatchewan with some good friends. We got a bit of extra snow than expected and the day was just so absurd, we couldn't stop laughing all day.

Don't get me wrong, I love watching epic edits from the old growth forests of BC or the ridiculous lines from the Fest Series, but I'm just as down with watching guys have fun on dumb little stuff, provided it's well done. I think Seth does that, and does it well.

 @makripper: I bet you're fun at parties

 @laxguy: That boostmaster fist-bump sound effect makes me want to punch something. Everybody's ears are different; it just happens to be my version of nails on a chalkboard. And he does it 50 times in a video. So, it's hard watch for me.

 @makripper: I'm with ya man. I'm happy for anyone's success, but I'm not into unboxing videos. At all. f*cking ever.

 Goof is his friend Bobo, at first he sounded a bit over silly but with time he grows on you As goof as they come.

 @TheR: To be fair fresh snow is fresh snow and you have to make the best of it no matter what. If you've been skiing ice for three weeks and you get two inches of fresh you can bet your ass youre going to be ripping like it's a snorkle day. Fresh is Fresh no matter how deep.

 @Session603: yeah, totally a fine line

 @makripper: Dude - believe it or not but he represents real world MTB'ers more than many, just look at his audience, they are all similar, weekend warriors, good bikes and hyped up and getting out and riding, and i mean this as no offence at all to those p[eeps as they are, esentially, the mountain bike industries bread and butter, because these you-tubers, in all their formats, are a shit tonne more relatable than a big sponsored pro as they can interact with them, literately, they are not gods on a bike and for that reason they are accessible both in levels of skill and ability, so yes, most MTB'ers will holla! when they drop a 2ft rock, that there is the real MTB world

 @bartb: my favorite part is his annoying ass telling everyone the location of trails he's ridden once that other people would rather keep on the DL

 @thenotoriousmic: Knee pads are for sissies!

 @Session603: you need some AvE in your life

 @bartb: totally agree. Likewise BKXC and most of the others. Most of their content is just POV footage while they talk incessantly, and they're not such great riders that I want to watch their POV.

 @PortTownsendTrailsFTW: I have no idea what AvE means.

 @Session603: www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cp-BGQfpHQ

 @makripper:

 @Session603: take a look at that link and you'll find out

 @justincs: dafuq did I just watch

 @bartb: even tho it's not much money for most.

 @huntstyle: yep! Just a miserable sumbitch!

 @makdthed: Well, Jeff Kendall weed isn't really that accessible in terms of ability or skill for 90% of us. Yet he's doing these vids now as well and is easily accessible to chat with or replying to comments.

 @NebulousNate: who cares! This is supposed to be a communal sport !I hate it when riders act as if a trail is way to good to expose it to the community as if it's some holy grail that no one else has the right to ride... Just dumb.

 @billreilly: Tell us that when u need to get ur knee scoped and it's never quit the same afterwards.. The best riders in the world where em..

 @thenotoriousmic: your comments say a lot about you and your mindset

 @thenotoriousmic: Dude, you sound incredibly miserable. I hope you find a way to rid your heart of all that negativity and hate. You're only hurting yourself.

 @thenotoriousmic: live and let live. Look at the comment below by ali clarckson, he loves seth and appreciates the effort he puts in. I don't think you ride anywhere near the level that ali does. Yet there he is, someone so much more skilled than you ever will be in your entire life appreciating an ordinary dude like seth.

 So you think Seth and others are bad for the sport? You should try reading some of the comments they get on their videos, and in their livestreams. Every single time, there are multiple people thanking them for getting them interested in mountain biking, giving them travel ideas, helping them lose weight because they get pumped up to go ride after watching their videos. These guys are doing far more for the sport than you could ever dream of. You know what's bad for the sport? Skilled riders bashing those who are not on their same skill level.

 Something I've always wanted to see is you and Scotty Cranmer's channel doing a game of bike! I dont do trials or BMX but I still really enjoy the blogging style group challenges that channels like you and Scotty do.

 Ali, like Seth said in your colab vid at Sea Otter, you may be one of the most underrated youtubers out there. Also, your wheel building video is the best/most helpful I've seen. So, thanks for that. Keep up the good work.

 Good post.

 Now I'm curious to know who that is! That's one reason I don't like group rides in general, but even with my small channel I have so many people asking to ride with me. So I'll be doing a group ride, but honestly I don't think I'll even record it. I usually record when I'm by myself cuz it's a lot of stopping to change batteries, set up a camera for an off the bike shot, etc.

 @huntstyle: I'd rather not say who it was. The guys were nice and everything, but it was clear their obligation was to record as much fake shit as possible in order to cash in from sponsors or whatever their scam is. The ride was at a fairly popular venue and organized by the event promoters. But nowhere was it stated that the entire thing would be recorded nor that those guys were involved.

 @gbeaks33: I don't expect you to, I'm just saying it makes me curious. I have some ideas. I don't think that kind of thing is really necessary in order to have a successful channel and make a living at it.

 Well shit..I want to see the video now..But I get it.

 Solid word choice, always a pleasant surprise on the Internet.

 @ginger-wheels: Thanks. I think.

 PB is completely irrelevant outside of each globally miniscule niche they cover. He made them ever slightly more relevant by speaking with them.

 @jasperwesselman: is right.

PB is a niche media channel for a focused following. Seth is bigger

 Pinkbike is for mountain bikers. Seth is for people who mountain bike. Huge difference.

 @cmkneeland: Pinkbike is for mountain *bikes* (and too often being a dick about it); YouTube is for mountain bikers/ people who mountain bike.

 There is far more control for YT vloggers self publishing and far more control than dedicating content to third party sites such as Pinkbike where one is subkect to the whims and fancies of changing editorial standards.

Make the content good enough and people will find it. PB is just a portal (one of the biggest) among many. It's not unique

 @leelau: Yep, five years ago PB had the some of the best creatives in the history of MTB shooting regular content. They were getting great view numbers pretty regularly. They unfortunately undervalued their team and had a few years of less internal content. The view numbers and general quality of their content suffered. Top ten videos of each year used to be only on PB with huge, several hundred thousand view counts each. In 2016 I had a top ten viewership vid on PB that barely passed 100k. Now Video of the Year basically doesn't include videos on Pinkbike. Only external platforms, forcing them into a tough position of not becoming just another reposting site (like TGR mtb) with decent ad space. Seth on the other hand clearly demonstrates a consistent attitude and value towards his content over the same timeframe. Within the two cases the inflated website that played shortsighted lost to the undervalued asset playing the long consistent game.

 @jasperwesselman: Great insight Jasper. Huge fan of your work, btw!

 @JeffWeed: Thanks Jeff, Likewise. Always keen to make cool stuff if you're down!

 @jasperwesselman: PB is essentially a portal for SEO. It's very good at it and sheer size has advantage in and of itself.

Agreed however that PB is now a generic portal without pure distinction. I tell tourism and travel companies that Adwords spend or YT ad buys are better $ for the money than PB front page where the numbers from third party analytics show that views do not translate to interest/clickthrus/hot inquiries.

Having said that PB seems to be good for mass branding and building namr recognition if oneis still in the Mad Men type of mindset.

Thanks for the insights and discussion btw.

 @cmkneeland: Pinkbike is for "rad, cool, gnarly wannabee" people who only ride in bike parks (as long as there's a lift) and think they're mountain bikers. Seth is for people who actually go out and enjoy mountain biking, and even ride uphill. Huge difference.

 Likewise! The “mad men” mindset had its day. Now its done. Those who adapt thrive. Those who dont get what they deserve.

 @jasperwesselman: Pinkbike caters to gravity MTB which used to be a niche in MTB before Enduro came along and still is a niche in cycling. It is still a niche within MTB but it is growing. That’s it that’s all. The reality is that DH bikes bring losses to big companies but they help sell ATBs and cheap MTBs. Pinkbike helps sell gravity bikes which help selling cheap bikes. The cycle closes. Pinkbike generates one of the highest quality contents in the industry with their photo reports from races. I am more than glad it exists. Remember printed DirtMAG? That was fkng top of the line stuff, it was above anything else, holding it in my hands I felt like I am a part of something special, so what it didn’t sell. It was worth it. It raised the level of content we get today. Back to Pinkbike, it has its place and doesn’t need to serve lemmings who eat regular pulp. Off course I value people who don’t ride well and don’t know much better, but their riding part of their life is of low quality. Thye have other things to do in life, making the world go around. They shop at Decathlon or Amazon a lot yes. They buy tubes at Wallmart, yes.

I thought of making Tshirts. I want to do a limited batch of 20 per design and charge more. For folks who want somethign appealing and at the same time exclusive and unique. Why wouldn’t I try to find something that would sell to Decathlon? Because I don’t give a Fk, I have a well paid job. I do what’s fun.

I am actually let down by this interview with Seth. I thought since it’s Pinkbike he’s going to talk riding bikes. So what I got is a dad showing me his penis after I asked him when do kids come from. And he could tell me about hugging, touching, how great boobs feel in touch.

You talk as if there was a recipe for success. There isn’t, there are only check points one must check. Like control finances. Seth is popular because he pushed through and made a regular guy riding bikes watchable. “Look I learned this and I am not a pro” so Jerry feels he can learn too. In most cases he won’t but He can relate. He cannot relate to Thomas Vanderham because he has no idea what he is looking at, becausehe never left the ground for longer than 0,5 sec without breaking his collar bone. And he is worried to do it because he support family, has mortgage and may even get fired for being hospitalized for too long. Seth wins with persistence and luck. I enjoy him too but prefer Thomas Vanderham...

To the original comment. Nobody is doing any bigger favor to anyone here. Two media entities are having a chat hoping their viewers will enjoy it as much as they do. Finding signs of deeper deliberate action in it at the level of bike industry is a stretch. It’s not Taylor Swift hitting Saturday Night Live. But I’d love bike engineers are bike company owners read mean Oinkbike comments. That would be cool.

Cheers!

 @WAKIdesigns: So I never really touched on relatability, more on just business. Photos aside it's undeniable that PB lost relevancy as far as internal video content production. The talent pool changed, output quality and quantity changed. I also definitely think there is a recipe for success. Printed dirt mag was the best because they did it out of love for the sport and the characters in it. Comparing Dirt to PB makes PB look like your so called lemming feeder. PB wants content that is as low cost as possible but as high viewership so they can sell more ads for more money. Whether thats done through great visual storytelling or clickbait is irrelevant. Seth made personal content, consistently for the purpose of sharing himself a personality. Sure to monetize and have personal success but for the sake of continuing something that entertains people. Not to be a valuable website on the backs of undervalued valuable people. To address the rest of what you said. I think there is a healthy medium to be found in communication between the two extremes of enthusiast and average. Not to say I don't fully support and shoot progressive riding. I love all the Fest dudes and will support freeriding forever. It's a unique and profound sport and culture. But do I think Vanderham could theoretically gain from less hero marketing and more human marketing? Sure. Could Seth theoretically gain from being a more progressive hero rider? Sure. Do I think either being more or less of what they are will make them more relatable for your model consumer worried for his mortality? maybe. But its not about catering to average or enthusiast. It's about characters and sharing them in a way where people can understand them. Sure average consumers are baffled and maybe confused looking at a video of a Rampage run or a high level riding edit. But its because the act seems super human and abstract to average people. But when people see them as humans they begin to understand that these dangerous moves are just their way of finding happiness. I tried to humanize a few of the biggest names in the sport because I think there are interesting psychological motivations to hit big shit and ride fast in some of the most unique places on Earth. But those motivations are relatable. That helps people who don't maybe understand this sport and these people, understand them. You have to be a serious character to become a huge name athlete in something as niche and inherently dangerous as freeride or dh. I think the traditional methods of sharing what top guys do overlooks that human side for a focus on performance and what they perceive as good public relations. I think sharing characters is better. Seth shares a relatable human character. Red Bull shares their demi god armada of elite performance hyper athletes. Whats perceivably right or better is probably in the middle like usual.

 Oh I can totally agree with that. What do you think of Ryan Leech? He definitely digs this isn’t it?

 @WAKIdesigns: like Seth, Ryan is laser focused on quality and long term. The RL business model has the advantage of scale 0

That Ryan is a superb rider and a high quality human being does not hurt.

 @leelau: yes but he also knows who he caters to without excluding anyone. And his results are stunning. One can ask, who is a better teacher and thus contributes more to the growth of the sport, and general improvement of quality of life of many people: dude improving riding skill of 100 people from 2 to 4 (10 being Top 20 WC qualifier) or a Dude sending 30ft gaps, inspiring a few kids going off the rails, where one will do an inspirational vid of signing with Trek 5 years later and 99 of whom will end up with selfie in a hospital, with drainage from their hip or shoulder with caption “If you aren’t crashing you ain’t pushing”. That’s what many self proclaimed gravity riders don’t get. Bryn Atkinson raises hair on my forearms and gives me goose bumps when I watch his cornering on his short spots on insta. But the reality is I learned most about cornering from Lee McCormack. I just watch Bryn demonstrate what Lee teaches in one of the best ways out there. I love to watch Sam Blenkinsop ride, but I want to erase his how to video about cornering from my memory... it hurts when I think about it

 @jasperwesselman: PB gets 6 million visits per month with each visit, on average, going to 7 pages. From my marketing perspective that is way more valuable than Seth's channel which looks to average around 400k per video (x4 = 1 month).

 @Rubberelli: So again I was speaking solely about video content viewership. But to address your thoughts. Thats one guy vs a whole team of educated people with connections to anyone in the industry. One dude is nearing direct competition with the engagement of a website ranked really well globally. It's also the manner of communication. I'd bet Seth sells more Diamondback bikes then I ever did when I was shooting traditional content for their global marketing. Because he shows and utilizes the product like a normal person while sharing creative ways to do so. As well as obviously all his repair and care techniques he shares to maintain the product. He gives a more accurate picture of what a consumer wants to know about a product experience then potentially the company could.

 @Rubberelli: further to what @jasperwesselman: says I don't know for sure as I don't have the actual analytics. PB is banner ads (thats what I meant when I said old-school - not a bad thing but its just traditional) plus other ad placements plus other revenue streams like Sponsored Content; IG, YT monetization.

It's a truism that click-thrus and monetization actions are greater via YT, IG and Ad-words (but this depends on many factors) then the old-school banner ads or FB. Apologies if I'm telling you what you already know as this is hardly a big industry secret and is really quite trite. In other words the marketing impact is bigger via YT than a generic type of portal (which I submit PB has become). That is what I mean when I say Seth;s YT channel is "bigger" (i mean in impact) than PB.

And before you raise it; i fully acknowledge this is speculation but it's my informed speculation

This is ignoring the revenue/expense ratio that @jasperwesselman quite aptly points out

 @jasperwesselman: make no mistake, I think Seth would make an excellent addition to the PB staff. So, it looks like his YT channel gets about 1.6 million views a month. PB, on the other hand, get 49 million (7m visits, 7 pages per visit). I don't k ow how many staffers PB has, but if they have over 35, he would easily be pulling his own weight (hell, he'd probably double his average views here). Your statement "PB is completely irrelevant outside of each globally miniscule niche they cover. He made them ever slightly more relevant by speaking with them" is way off base. Seth might even get his million subscribers by being featured here. Meanwhile, PB will continue to grow at the same rate they have been by bringing us visitors the type of relevant content we want to see/read/drool over/comment about. This particular feature is an excellent example of that.

 @leelau: Googke makes $100 billion a year in ads but has never said how much it makes from YouTube (supposedly because it is not as significant as people might think given how pervasive YT is), Analysts peg it at $15 billion, or 15% of all Alphabet ad revenue. www.businessinsider.com/google-youtube-revenues-mystery-analyst-change-2018-2

 @Rubberelli: I was speaking to how much a channel will make from YT not how much Youtube makes. Roughly a channel makes 2.50 per CPM. More if viewers are more "valuable", are stickier, watch through Adsense ads, are of certain demographics etc

 @leelau: evidently, not much. A million views will only net you about $2k. www.businessinsider.com/money-youtube-stars-actually-make-2

 @Rubberelli: Its no secret youtube pays shit. But Seth engages people more effectively with DB bikes then the rest of the pro team combined. He's an advertising asset that avoids the sales feel, and bad taste of traditional corporate ads. While also providing consumer education and shares innumerable product experiences. The biggest youtubers get probably average 3-6 million views every day. So probably earning like $10k or so a day. 3-4 mil a year. Yet people are earning 10's of milliions a year. Clearly brand deals, merchandising, etc are way more lucrative then views itself. The whole market is severely undervalued as well. Also how exactly does 7m users visiting one site, one time each and every person requesting 7 pages from that site equate to 49m unique users?

 @jasperwesselman: I said it gets 49 million views not visitors. Each page is a view and that is how advertising works, so visitors to PB are exposed to 7 pages worth of ads, vs one commercial view per video on YT (although longer videos have commercial breaks like TV).

 @Rubberelli: RIght now I'd place bets on the new and take 1 million of a niche influncers's views over 49 million disruptive ad blasts on 7 million people. I'm sure if you could compare sales analytics as a result of strategy having a "Seth" opposed to having "buy our shit" getting in the way of more important content. Would ultimately result in similar outcomes if not more sales on the side of the influencer. Seth doesn't even have to directly advertise to sell bikes for Diamondback. If he just does what he/his audience/sponsors likes all the time, documents it, and shares it. People see someone enjoying specific products in objective reality and want to emulate that.

 @jasperwesselman: that's what you and I were talking about re "Mad Men". Uniques is an old school metric only matched in antiquity by PB style banner ads. We used to call it the pasta style of marketing. Throw it at the wall and see what sticks.

Marketing big data analytics is still primitive but even tho rudimentary the better third party tools ( Allocadia MRM, Tradedesk, Aquantive) show that YT, IG and thought - leader/cult marketing translates clicks to dollars better thab other older methods (with banner ads being close to the bottom of the barrel).

Bottom line is its an interesting field intersecting sociology, psychology, economics and lots of math.

 Aren’t we forgetting about target client, whomwants to advertise? Pinkbike’s client are bicycle brands. There may be a little doming from energy drinks, but they come in indirectly. Seth is juicing on on YT ads from BMW, Rihannas New album, through bear spray, Tom Cruise to balm for rectal sores. If you are a bike company trying to advertise a product from am, en, DH segments, Pinkbike is one of the best spots in the internet.

 @WAKIdesigns: remember though that the bicycle brands pay much less than "normal" real world brands. Lets take something as banal as a banner ad.
Yahoo's rate for a banner + push + keyword for say cosmetics will be 3 to 5x that paid by a bike or bike-related brand. Mtbike industry in general is low margin low-yield relatively speaking

 @leelau: It is very clear that PB does not use Google ads and runs its own advertising.

 @WAKIdesigns: If you're generating your own content and brands are supporting that, the million people that see a disruptive ad see way more of what could be perceived as niche specific advertising and information sharing. When you're sharing interest specific information in a pool of likeminded existing consumers. You get more of an echo chamber. Sure you have you have pool of great consumers, and that can rely on those consumers to continue consuming within your group with similar interests. But your losing out on potential growth by playing it safe reaching the same people over and over again. Shaking the same jar. Who gives a f*ck what youtube puts over someones work in any case, those aren't effective ads. They're nuisances.

 Any job can be exhausting. I'd rather spend a day recording on the side of the trail than sitting in an office though.

 @bruvar: word. now back to spreadsheets. . . .

 My two favorite things are my bike and my camera. Doesn't sound exhausting at all to me!

 @huntstyle: Make it your job and you'd be surprised.

 @jjcrawley: When the alternative is being stuck in the office all day with a limited amount of time off to travel and enjoy life... I think I can make it through, lol

 For me his lack of profanity and safe for work content also helps. I can safely watch his videos (ant MTB Daily) at work and at home in front of the kids and comfortably share them on Facebook and with the school bike club.

 @rossluzz: agreed, my 10 yr old loves Seth’s videos so as well so it’s enjoyabrl for us to watch them together.

 Seth has mentioned in other interviews that he spends hours refining his content with the goal of not losing any viewers. Or in other words, his content may not be amazing all of the time he makes sure nothing he puts out is going to suck.

 It's definitely a business, and becoming more and more of a legitimate business. On the outside it looks easy, but there's so much more that goes into it than simply strapping a GoPro on and hitting record. Most people won't be willing to put in the work to get to the same level that Seth has.

 So why are you on Pinkbike right now? I agree that watching someone else play a video game is ridiculous, but a 5-10 minute shred video to break up the work day and get you pumped for an after work or weekend ride? That's pretty much why most of us come to Pinkbike, so why not a YouTuber?

 That is the thing. This guy is not just POV videos of him and his buddies riding, he has so much more. Give it a try, you'll see..

 @sb666: Because, everyone poops

 That's why you watch it in incognito mode at work. Then you're all jacked up for the real thing after!

 This is like my niece watching other kids play with toys on YouTube. Her behavior makes me question the state of things, and puts the YouTube sensationalism into perspective.

 @sb666: well, since you asked, I come to PB for the comments naturally.

 I want something that will blow my mind, not regular joe stuff that I see though my own video of life every day. Some of their stuff is total clickbait (WATCH SETH CUT A HOLE IN MY VAN!!1), bro I don't care, I want to watch Danny MacAskill, Jeff Lenosky, Red Bull, ect. Not saying Seth isn't a great rider. But all those mfs are hugely talented and ride at the highest level.

 @cole-bikeva: yeah you feel what I’m saying. I’m no racer or world star but I’ve been on mtbs 26 years and regular dudes on bikes isn’t exciting to me. Maybe for some of you younger dudes who will actually do Twitch or follow vlogs... i got rid of all that shit soon after kids arrived and now I just RIDE.

 I disagree on it being saturated. I saw an IMBA survey that showed 42 million people in the U.S. alone participated in mountain biking in the year referenced. And Seth isn't even at 1 million subs yet. I have a small channel, and I often get subs who are not subbed to any other MTB YouTubers. New riders don't know who any of these guys are yet. That being said, there are a lot of guys out there now simply recording POV footage of their rides. I'm definitely thinking of every possible way to be different, yet the analytics show that the POV footage is what the viewers are interested in most!

 @huntstyle: Valid point, maybe my moderate ADHD causes me to get bored quicker than most... haha

 @SalsaVerde: Haha, yeah, I totally get what you're saying, though, and I do think that there needs to be something more than simple POV footage, but it depends. I started doing POV only on my local trails because I found that a lot of people watch the videos to see if the trail matches their skill level, or if they think it'll be fun, etc. So they're more of a "trail guide" type of video than a vlog.

 Without kashima, they'll never be as cool as the other kids

 I subscribe to most of the ones mentioned throughout the comments, and GMBN is by far my favorite. Why Mtbyumyum? I personally can not stand him, even though bike reviews are some of my favorite content.

 In order to make a living and continue putting out the free content, they have to earn money somehow, whether it be through paid content or sponsors. And I'd be willing to bet that either way people will complain about it. I pay $1 per month for Seth's premium content. It's a drop in the bucket, but to be honest I'm not even necessarily paying for the extra content, I just want to support Seth and what he is doing, because I think it's awesome.

 Agree... what he's doing is awesome. And if all of his subscribers went premium, that's a heck of a lot of money! Still, "premium content" (for $1) feels gimmicky... But then again, maybe I'm just not a premium guy?

 @Chadimac22: Eh... I mean people pay $9 to go to the movies every weekend, and over $100 for cable TV. Would those be considered "premium" content? To me that's the alternative, and since I don't spend money on movies or cable TV, I don't mind spending some money to support the YouTubers I enjoy watching. Also, the roughly 10 minute videos are great, because I have a hard time sitting down and watching a 2 hour movie!

 @huntstyle: yea man, totally get your point... you don’t need to rationalize or defend it to me. Maybe I just wish it was called something else besides “premium”. I don’t need to feel special; just entertained.

 Being a wanker somewhere probably. I had no idea who he was, but after he acted like a little bitch because the Evil demo team didn't know who he was at the Sedona bike festival, I decided that he and his content were garbage

 @Mntneer: Haha care to elaborate on how he acted like a little bitch? Seems like a nice guy. Haven't heard anything about that.

 nvm

 IMO Phil is one of the best riders out of all the youtube vloggers, but he has the worst skill when it comes to content creation/editing/production, I can't watch his videos.

 @Bbat:

He went on a rant, to a lesser degree of intensity in person than he did online, about how he's a YouTube star with lots of fans and rides an evil, and that the company should basically be all over his nuts and couldn't believe that they didn't know who he was.

He was pretty quick to delete his rant from YouTube after people called him out on it.

 I also got turned of by Nate Hills after Macky (Syd and Macky) beat him at the enduro and so he complained to the organizers and had new rules added.

 @rossluzz: details? What rules did he have changed?

 @ace10brian: I believe it was at the last race in Crested Butte, he pre-rode one of the trails on his dirt bike. It was a moto legal trail, but the other racers claim that because it was official practice, he was breaking some rule that didn't exist.

youtu.be/nlZz8ZQcHtA?t=16m54s

 @ace10brian: I think I saw the video and I guess Nate complained that the Macky guy rode the trails on a dirtbike the day before. The trails are moto legal, so he figured it would be fine. Seems like a bit of a grey area and he got bit for doing it and it seemed kinda petty for a guy of Nate hills caliber to complain about it, but generally speaking pre riding enduro courses results in penalties, so Mackey maybe should have asked before doign it.

personally I couldn't really care either way.

seems like people online are making a way bigger deal of both those incidents than the people involved.

 @acdownhill: Got it, seems like a douchey thing to complain to organizers about especially since enduro racing is supposed to be less about the competition and more about the comradery...

 @rossluzz: I could see how they might both be annoyed after spending a ton of money on the entry fee.... The last stop is Aspen BME, and the registration fee online right now is 200 dollars, a Keystone SEASON PASS is 329...I know for the Keystone BME there are a ton of local rippers that didn't race because it was so expensive. With how crowded it was there that day though, maybe they should be charging 250 to race, because people like to go full enduro.

 @Mntneer: Yeah, the Evil stuff dropped Phil down a few pegs in my book. When people drop the "Do you know who I am?!" - its pretty lame, especially when you put on a pretty humble persona and something like that comes out. Still a great rider and entertaining.

 @Mntneer: I don't agree with Phil's attitude at all, but its pretty crazy Seth has over 700k subs and is sponsored Diamondback of all brands. I don't think he would pick a Diamondback if it was his choice lol.

 @cole-bikeva: diamondback is a start, nonetheless. A lot of Seth's content doesn't really appeal to me, but he seems genuine, dedicated, and organized.

In Phil's defense, maybe he's just a young guy who needs to grow into his ego, rather than to be ruled by it.

I really only watch videos of trails that I'm planning to ride, so I also don't provide the best metrics that relate to broad mtb youtubers

 Uh, what? "Disparaging the bike company's good name?" Alex never even mentioned the bike company's name. Spot's CEO chose to go after Alex in what was universally regarded as a terrible PR decision. The CEO even apologized. It sounds more like you've got an ax to grind here as you're clearly resentful of their success.

www.reddit.com/r/MTB/comments/8gahlj/spots_bike_brand_damage_control_after_singletrack

 @bizutch: so it's okay to ride that illegal section of trail as long as you don't film it? Only the locals who ride those illegal trails will recognize them, all of these guys do a pretty good job at sensoring stuff if they need to. Alex is definitely not for me, he has clickbaity titles and too much enthusiasm but you're throwing rocks from your high horse inside your glass house regarding poaching trails. He's not anymore in the wrong than you are, even if he does post footage online.

 holy gatekeeping batman

 @Boondocker390: I know it's an illegal section because I rode it before the USFS spent a ton of time, money & resources to block the section off but have NEVER ridden it since it became illegal.

The trail, if ridden legally, would have NO intersections. In his video, there is a trail intersection.
You assumed I'm a poacher. Thanks

 He moved to Asheville.

 @SangamonTaylor: sweet! way better riding there for sure.

 You should try starting a channel. Then you'll realize how much work does not involve riding your bike.

 Lol. Riding mtb and editing vids isn’t work if you enjoy doing it. @huntstyle:

 @THE-GUNT: That's kind of the point. Shouldn't we all try to make a living doing what we love? It's still a lot of work, whether the work is enjoyable or not. Nobody is "freeloading" as you suggest. Their income is earned.