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JKW reasons correspond pretty good to my experience. Flats are more fun even though they are slower. For going very fast or very long at or over the limits of your skills clip in and hang on
youtu.be/cwcu2pvOaxI
I think that's probably true here - clipless less you unweight your upstroke pedal while remaining solidly clipped in. So for someone with the right pedaling technique on flats, not putting downward pressure on the pedal during the upstroke, the efficiency level of clips vs. flats could probably be comparable.
I bet a lot of people riding flats unwittingly weight their upstroke pedal though, to keep their foot solidly engaged, making their legs fight each other and hurting their efficiency.
That said, if someone is trying to ensure having optimal pedal position, so that they are generating repeatable, maximal force during the downstroke, that's where the real advantage of clipless lies, as you can tune exactly where your foot is on the pedal in a way that is exactly the same every time. Even in this case though, for the average person that makes very little difference, most of the benefit would be if you are trying to shave seconds off of large efforts
I think the feeling of efficiency comes more from the stiffer sole on the clipped shoe than anything else.
That said I will contradict myself with - flat for fun - clips for competition - that many races can't be wrong can they? Wisdom of crowds and all......?
For what its worth I've never slipped a pedal on a rough descent in 10 years of PNW riding on flats.
Right - like this paper
Gross cycling efficiency is not altered with and without toe-clips
Laura M. Ostler , James A. Betts & Christopher J. Gore
To cite this article: Laura M. Ostler , James A. Betts & Christopher J. Gore (200 Gross cycling efficiency is not altered with and without toe-clips, Journal of Sports Sciences, 26:1, 47-55, DOI: 10.1080/02640410701332507
To link to this article: doi.org/10.1080/02640410701332507
I do not see clip pedals improving the average power of a long constant effort, but much more on punctual coups de cul.
Trail/everyday riding - clipless
Park - Flats
I use rigid shoes and Shimano XT trail pedals. My shoes contact on both sides of the cleat, on the machined smooth section of the pedal. I have run across some shoes that the lugs on either side of the cleat mounting are are too low to contact which is a major oversight on the shoe companies side, since you can always shim a cleat to be able to engage it.
Don't have much experience with clipless flat style shoes, but had one experience that was amazing but it was long ago. Original DX pedals with a Specialized shoe, Fat Boy I think. It felt like your whole shoe was the pedal.
I feel like being clipped in but then also having pin trying to engage into the sole of your shoe would be the most frightening thing ever. Can't imagine that it would be possible to get out when you are trying to put pressure into the bike through a corner, then you have the bike slide out on something wet. I feel like the few people that I knew that ran that sort of set up removed most of the pins because of that.
There is no fore/aft stability on a pedal, so the only thing I give up with my setup is being able to apply cross angle pressure on the pedal. If I rode DH or Enduro I would perhaps worry about it.
I've only ever heard of trying to generate power by pulling up on the pedal in 2 situations.
1. When trying to clear techy rough terrain where you are also needing to ratchet the pedals.
2. When debating flats vs clipless as evidence that it makes no difference to be clipped in as you can't really make power by pull ng up in the pedal.
When I was taught how to smooth my pedal stroke as a junior road racer I was told that you push and then act like you are scraping mud off your shoe at the bottom of the stroke. You can do that with either pedal type, unless you have super dropped heels while pedaling. I was never taught to try and pull up with my foot, I was actually taught that was something not to do outside of a few select situations, like a Time Trial start.
I don't think I understand the question. Your shoes sole/lugs should be contacting the pedal on both the inboard and outboard side of the pedal next to the cleat, that is how you get side to side stability on traditional clipless pedals. You don't need any platform at all.
You can also have a large platform to get stability if your shoes don't have that contact point with the pedal, or are not as rigid. With rigid lugged mountain bike shoes though, the platform is just there in case you miss a clip in or need something to stand on for a moment. When clipped in there is no way my shoes would contact any part of any pedal, except for those 2 spots on either side of the cleat. So I use the Shimano trail pedals, as the platform is only touched by my shoe for about 4 seconds if something goes wrong on a section of trail, but I would probably hit a big platform pedal on the ground multiple times per ride as I wouldn't be used to it.
That is strange that the MT43's lugs didn't touch the pedal. There are the speedplay Syzr pedals that actually kinda solved this wobble issue, but it can be frustrating as no one has put an adjustable height contact point on either side of the cleat area.
I actually rode BMX street bikes for a few years, so pretty familiar with pulling the bike up with flats. Different than pulling directly up on the pedal while ratcheting the cranks though.
Just saying........it might not have anything to do with the pedal
I did say that you pull up on pedals in those sorts of situations, I have blown out of Time clipless road pedals many times in the distant past during Time Trial starts, but only crashed once. Saying that it is not rare is a matter of definition of "rare" however. If I define rare as less than 1% of the time, I would say that it is rare that I pull up on my pedals, especially once I stopped racing.
Most people don't pull up on pedals, while pedaling, at least 99% of the time, unless you are a track sprinter or something. Likely why the track folk were running double toestraps forever.
Totally agree with your comment. I don't have much mobility in my ankle that I ride with as my back leg, so I can't really drop my heel for the rough stuff. Other wise I would happily ride flats on the mountain bike for at least part of the year.
I'd also argue that in technical terrain, clips take much more technique. Between unclipping, reclipping, missing the cleat, reclipping again (count the tappy tap taps next time you ride without someone on clips, including yourself), there is a lot to do. Subconsciously your brain isn't going to want to deal with that, so you'll just keep your foot on, thus shutting down numerous lines that might just need a little foot out to clean.
Why not find out? And not just bring both pedals on a ride and do repeats. I mean ride each for a while and practice a loops and time it at the end of each period with the respective pedals.
What you were taught is good, and kind of negates the need for clips. Using a similar (same?) technique I can pedal one footed on flats...
I don't know where those numbers come from. I have never looked at the studies in depth enough to know if they were comparing the real difference maker in my opinion, shoes. Big heavy squishy shoes vs composite soled shoes, are a big reason for differences in efficiency in my opinion. I could be wrong but I would be willing to change my opinion if shown a study that showed that squishy shoes made no difference compared to composite soled with a rigid interface.
I have been quite used to flats on BMX bikes in the past and they are great. I just can't move my left ankle enough to drop my heel in the rough stuff so there is no way I can ride them on the MTB. Plus all the shoes made for flat pedals don't even come close to fitting my feet. My pedaling technique has also made flats on a MTB a bit harder for me. My heel starts very dropped and at the bottom of the stroke it is just a bit higher than my toe. Sure, I could change the way I've been pedalling my bike for the last 30 years but, I have no real reason to.
We need some kind of speed play to crank things up a bit.
I know that when I'm moving at anything above walking pace I can get a foot down as quick as I've ever needed to. I don't know or care how it happens, just that when I slide on that spiderweb of wet roots on the inside of a corner I get my foot down no problem. Like I said though, I don't think it would be the same story if I was wearing a pair of 510 Falcons standing on a clipless pedal with a pinned platform. There would be other advantages to that setup, but for me it wouldn't out way the falls. I've had enough surgeries already.
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19424280.2016.1140817?src=recsys
I wonder what would be the result with Impact pro on a big platform like CB Stamp Large. Running shoe has more cussion, there has to be efficiency loss there in comparison to a professional flat pedal shoe. it is worth mentioning that this study was made for a company that has more interest in selling clipless shoes than flat pedal ones... they could also do a test like this on differen cadences, including a sprint simulating BMX/track gate start
Who is turning their hips 45 degrees in a corner? Also, hips are made to move like that. Do a lunge, watch your front foot stay pointing straight while your hips rotate, possibly up to 45 degrees.
Also watch your foot possibly roll side to side during the lunge to adjust balance. Can your fancy clips allow that motion? Because my flats sure can.
You are talking to the wrong person mate... I am not against flats I am against bullshit like X pedal makes your knees worse no matter what. I just gave an example where flats cause problems as a response to people whom claim that clipless cause problems. I do get knee pain from pumping flat ground drill on flats. If you want to find a boxing bag with (clips are better) it’s not me. Sorry.
And what if that one option is wrong? How many people riding clips and claiming power gains have gotten a bike fit? And then also gotten a power test at different cleat positions to prove they're in the right spot? And don't we know that repetitive motion can be harmful to joints? So why would you want to lock yourself into _exactly_ the same motion for all the repetitions. Do weightlifters lock their feet down to an exact position, to the mm, every time? No, because that's f*cking insane!
My feet move all over the place on flats, but only when I want them to and yet, I haven't bashed a shin since I got off clips and stopped subconsciously depending on them.
Also, your foot doesn't just stay on the pedal for hours at a time. With flats you're more likely to detach and make a balance move or something, and then your foot goes back on the pedal in slightly different place each time.
Versus clips keeping your foot and leg in the exact same motion _forever_, which is definitely not good for joints (RSI). Especially so since the vast majority of clips riders have not gotten (or kept up with, because bodies change throughout life) a professional bike fit, so that RSI hit is likely worse since the motion is not optimal to being with.
Not matter how easy they are to get out of, clips will _always_ be slower than flats. And for most riders, who don't need to win races to pay rent, the tiny efficiency gains aren't worth the trade-offs. "Secure" is the only valid argument, but it's easily argued that your riding will benefit more from getting good at staying on flats (it's not hard, easier than learning to get out of clips really quickly), and never even having the possibility of developing the bad habit of relying on the clips.
As the length difference is on the femur I only need to correct it when the leg is extended, so I use 2 different pedals (a 11m thick XPedo Spry and a 20mm thick XPedo Detox) and 2 different cranks (one 170mm and one 175mm).
Small crank goes with the thick pedal and long crank with the thinner pedal so when the crank is at 12 o'clock there is no correction (top of pedals are level if you could put both crank upt at once), but at 6 o'clock I get 10mm of correction, so my longer leg now has enough room to extend fully and doesn't move outward when the foot goes forward as it used to, which was the cause of the kneeache as the muscles slightly pulled on the patela.
I still feel a bit unbalanced when pedals are level but I can't correct this.
Maybe I could make a user generated article, as maybe it could help some people, though it's not approved by a physio or anybody else.
Clearly you need to be right about this so answer these 2 questions for me.
What are the shoes I should try on for flats? I have tried 510, RC, Shimano, Giro. None were even close to fitting. As there are something like 10 times as many options with rigid shoes it has always been annoying but possible to find shoes that work. Teva shoes actually felt good but they are long gone.
You also say that it is not hard to get used to staying on flats. I have quite limited mobility in my left ankle, which is my rear leg. What is a good technique to staying on flat pedals when you cannot drop your heel, due to having around 60% range of motion as a result of shattering my ankle 28 years ago on my bike?
Clipless works better than toe clips, which was what Look replaced with the first clipless pedals in the 1980’s.
The evidence about clipless vs modern flats is murky at best.
How much have you had to drink so far this evening?
Definitely in accord on the overall lack of efficiency effect.
My Lab protocol is an adaption of the Enduro test done by Lewis Kirkwood
www.downtimepodcast.com/lewis-kirkwood
www.jsc-journal.com/ojs/index.php?journal=JSC&page=article&op=view&path%5B%5D=10.28985%2F171231.jsc.10
Thanks for listening. I hate this type of bullshit.
Anyways, just ride and have fun.
Flats are safer and more fun for many riders, especially beginners and intermediates.
In my experiences as an instructor, riding flats is the best ways to learn good pressure control, allows for better body position and dynamic movement and leads to better skills overall.
I expected more from Pinkbike here.
Garbage post guys.
I became an instant fan of flats then I can tell you.
ped·ant
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"the royal palace (some pedants would say the ex-royal palace)"
Some people are fast on flats (Brook, Brendog, Sam Hill etc)
Others are fast on clips (Bruni, Pierron, Brosnan etc)
This whole topic needs to die; put your feet on whatever feels best for you and go ride your bike
Fast on flats (Hill, Fearon, Brendog.)
Fast on clips (everyone else)
I like the "fun" of flats and ability to get your foot on and off quickly around corners. But then I like the "locked in" feeling of clips and not having to worry about the position of your feet and being able to pedal through bumpy stuff.
Edit - I just watched some Kovarik vids. I really need to get my flats on again....
Each have advantages and disadvantages and it doesn't really matter what you ride at the end of the day.
We rode Afan Masts for the first time late last year and I was on clips and was constantly thinking about my pedals and clipping in and out. Once we had done a few runs I was fine but it would have been better on flats. For me it is better if I ride new tech steep stuff on flats until I get to a point I know the track. Then I can change back to clips if needed.
@ADGproductions - most Joeys I see in the parks ride flats... just saying... I don't mean poor riders ride flats, I mean poor riders also ride flats, there is NO correlation bewteen type of pedal and a type of rider...
Funny, because it's true
Clips=rollerblades
Flats=skateboard
No need learn ta bunny hop just lift up your feet
It can be done with any type of pedals, the technique is just different.
Asking for my looser mate who rides the devil pedals
Clip(less) is definitely faster. I ride both and yes, you can put power down in the roughest of sections without worrying about your feet coming off. That is where they have a real advantage IMO. However, flats do force you to learn good technique. I don't race anymore, I DGAF about Strava "racing", and flat pedals and shoes are way more comfortable for me so that's what I ride now.
Pinkbike editorial staff needs some shredders on board to contrast the "racers". Every bike review should have two reviewers. A person who prioritizes how fast the bike is and a person who prioritizes how fun/nimble/maneuverable/jumpy/jibby the bike is. Yes, "fastest" is fun but it's not the only kind of fun. A 3 meter long bike that "sticks to the ground" is only one kind of fun and definitely not the other kind of fun. Also, get some 85+ kilo testers on board. This stuff feels different to a big strong bloke vs. a lean featherweight. Just suggestions, you can stick with the strava focused and e-bike reviews if you like.
Pole Bike review: Racer: "It was the fastest! I loved it!" Shredder: "Throw this yacht in the bin, I couldn't 3 it of anything and it won't turn."
Also, the "toe cage" was called a "toe clip". Hence, clipless...
The biggest differences in climbing for clipless vs platform pedals would be in technical sections, many riders find that the ability to really pull up on the pedals can power them up and over those difficult chunky climbs. Whether you are drained after a long climb or not has NOTHING to do with your pedal choice.
The issue with pedaling in squares, is actually been shown to be compounded by the use of clipless pedals and using platform pedals has been seen to improve overall pedal efficiency when switching back to clipless because that switch from push to pull becomes more fluid.
Technique is a big factor in using platform pedals and just switching from clipless to platform pedals without identifying and instituting the proper footwork will nullify most of the benefits of platform pedals.
I haven't been so disappointed with the content on this site in a very long time. Do your research.
Bottom line is: There have been way too many studies debunking the myths that she's perpetuating in this video to just ignore it.
I changed in the hopes of being a smoother rider, and feel like I ride much smoother/precise now, not particularly faster in the descents, but i'm going through a whole lot less gear nowdays as my pedals, shoes and tyres had to binned every couple of months. Also stopped breaking wheels, I think being able to react faster in lifting/unweighting the bike helps a ton.
I do wish I could go back to flats for fun, but a few parking lot tests didnt feel right...
The climbing scenario where the clipless are clearly superior has nothing to do with pedaling efficiency- it's large things that you can more easily pull up and forward and get over instead of trying to 'technique' it. It's all fun to talk about technique but when you've already been climbing for a while just just want to get it done.
One is when you're activity trying to accelerate. Being able to pull up during this makes a noticeable difference.
Sitting, spinning and maintaining a power output (ie 99% of your actual pedalling) there is no difference in efficiency.
Second is pedalling over rough ground. (Think rock garden/prolonged roots).
Anything else is just preference, so there is no right or wrong answer. The 15-30% claim in the video is extremely misleading.
My Five Ten Impacts feel more direct on the pedal than most clipless shoes I've tried
Seated pedalling, there is no difference. Even the roady "lab tests" (GCN did a few) showed that, and they were using plastic sole'd Clip shoes on top of small platform cheap pedals.
With a proper flat pedal and appropriate shoe, you can push and pull at the top and bottom of the stroke, so you only lose the ability to pull on the pedal which is an unnatural movement for your legs, and unless you're consciously trying to do it, I'd wager you don't pull on the pedals while sitting and pedalling, or even standing while maintaining an output.
For reference, I'm currently riding clipped in, and swap fairly regularly. The only physical differences I'm noticing are the ones I've outlined above. Psychologically, I feel I ride looser on flats, and I much prefer them for wheelies and dicking about.
Uhh.....yeah? it's a hill. i ride up one side and down the other to get to work and then up that side and down again to get home. So yes it's "uphill both ways". Pretty simple concept really that shouldn't need explaining.
I've only ridden it once while snowing and it's also part of a mtb park.
So, you'd have to put out the equivalent of 230-260Watts on flats to keep out with a rider putting out 200W in clipless? That defies common sense.
"would take 200W on clips to keep up with someone putting 250W on flats" is the same as "it would take 250W on flats to keep up with with someone putting 200W on clips".
Man...
She is saying that 15-30% of your power is lost in the pedal interface when you compare flats v. clipless. Thus, she effectively claims that to put out the same power at the rear wheel, you need to put out 230-260 watts (measured at your foot) on flats v. 200 on clipless.
In the future, please think before attacking others. There is a certain, unfounded, arrogance in your post.
I believe she mentions energy efficiency though, not power. Related but not the same in my mind.
Obviously if one rider is putting 200 watts to the ground, they'll probably be slower than someone putting 250 watts to the ground. But if they're both putting 250 watts into their feet, but one is only getting 200 watts to the ground, well then they'd be slower again.
watch a test...
pedalinginnovations.com/does-this-video-really-prove-that-flats-are-more-efficient-than-clipless-pedals
The conclusion:
Despite being on crappy flat pedals and using his clipless pedal shoes (hardly a fair comparison to a decent set of flats and shoes), the end result of the test was that the rider pedaled more efficiently on flats. He consumed less oxygen to complete the test on them than he did on the clipless pedals, which obviously shocked everyone.
I jumped on the band wagon this winter and committed to flats until March. As much as I hate being on flats on technical descents, I can tell that my technique has improved a lot and I'm excited to see if this makes me any better when spring rolls around and I switch back to SPD.
www.bikejames.com/strength/why-pedaling-efficiency-has-nothing-to-do-with-your-pedals
Somebody needs to cite sources or retract
pedalinginnovations.com/does-this-video-really-prove-that-flats-are-more-efficient-than-clipless-pedals
You can get away with poor technique on clips that you cant on flats though.
Despite being on crappy flat pedals and using his clipless pedal shoes (hardly a fair comparison to a decent set of flats and shoes), the end result of the test was that the rider pedaled more efficiently on flats. He consumed less oxygen to complete the test on them than he did on the clipless pedals, which obviously shocked everyone.
New riders out there bunny hopping by pulling their clips up and afraid to manual because they're attached to their bike, misinformation victims every one. I used to be one of them.
Or was it someone doing a type test or a university study?
Nothing wrong with university studies, they are run across the road from us, but they are not subjected to anything like the scrutiny of a clinical study.
Anyway.. who is Sam hill
Who has the largest winning margin in Dh
How did Gee manage at Cairns when he switched from clips to borrowed flats?
for XC, its not the clip, its the firmness of the sole that removes the losses.
as for losing your feet, I dont lose mine, Sam Hill doesnt see to lose his either and he is better than everyone.
My PB on flats is 5:05 (305 seconds), so that equates to 295 seconds on clips or a 4:55, I still have 6 seconds to find somwhere to catch Steve Peats time for fastest over 40!
Maybe I should change from 26 to a 29er, what will that gain me?
Keep these hidden gems coming (I am slower on clips from testing unfortunately).
www.bikejames.com/strength/why-clipless-pedals-are-not-20-30-more-efficient-than-flats
I'd say let's all shut up and allow @Pinkbikeoriginals to chime in and back up their claim properly. It is between Pinkbike and James Wilson now. Let's all sit back, relax and enjoy the show.
@Pinkbikeoriginals: Take the stage, it is your turn.
I was trained as a junior for the road, retired when I turned senior, 100mile time trial to qualify for the year, no thanks.
Now I just race Dh and have done a couple of Enduros.
Might do more Enduros, just need to put the turbo work in, will still be on Flats though for racing (clips for the road bike on the turbo)
You can maintain a more constant pedal when in clips. Over any terrain you can pedal, and you are ultimately faster.
It’s not a matter of efficiency, it’s a matter of speed. You’re not riding to the end point of your physical limit on a bike .
If they were faster all the racers would switch to them. As has been previously said when someone else in this thread badly compared clips to wide bars or droppers, these things take time.
However, flats have been around pretty much forever in MTB and have never caught on on the race scene because they bring slower results for the vast majority of people. If they actually made you faster on a bike every single roadie would have them in colors matching their jersey
It certainly feels like you maintain a consistent pedal in clips, because even if you're inconsistent, your foot stays on (until it doesn't and you smash a knee into the bars or a pedal into a shin). On the other hand, on flats you _have to_ maintain a consistent pedal or your feet will come off.
I'm positing that it's no more difficult, and in fact much easier, to learn to pedal well (on flats) than learning to deal with clips. With the bonus that learning to pedal well helps on both flats and clips, if you choose to go that route. Where-as learning to use clips doesn't at all help your actual pedaling, and in fact allows bad habits to form.
Therefore, you maintain a more consistent pedal when on flats.
Road is a completely different prospect than MTB. When there is virtually no need to put a foot down, or even just off the pedal and stuck out for balance, the small power increase is worth it, especially with the long steady outputs of a road ride. But on MTB there is a trade-off between that tiny power increase versus the agility of not being clipped in, that probably isn't worth it for most riders, especially with the unsteady/spiky outputs of a trail ride.
That's all the proof we need. Lol
Last I checked this wasn't a roadie site, think you might have had a bad crash and bumped your head.
Have you never seen anyone one road bike on flats or have you seen someone within the last 2 years and not prior to that on a road bike on flats?
Your statement suggests you have never seen a roadie on flats, where my statement with respect to this not being a road website stands and this was just noise, then you took up MTN, mountain biking 2 years ago where younfirat encountered flats.
Welcome to the light from the dark side. Haha.
Dh and enduro. Ride up or push up slowly, send it on the way down, everyone struggles with something, sit and eat your lunch at the car and go again.
Tell the boys on tubes that tubeless is the way ahead the spend all day pumping up your burped or tyre slit tubeless tyres with their inserts haha.
I will say I concur with the efficiency stand point. I have had flats on dj and dh bike for 20 years. I tried to ride xc on flats and it was more of a mental game of feeling non efficient.
We have Ostler, Betts, & Gore (200 "Gross cycling efficiency is not altered with and without toe-clips", doi.org/10.1080/02640410701332507. This looks at VO2 with flats vs clipped in (straps in this case) min a lab environment. Clipped in was numerically higher in V02 and there was a 99% chance that clipped in was not more efficient. Aka, there is no statistical difference between them and if you ignore the stats (which, please don't) it said that flats were better.
We have Shaw & Kram (2016) "Effects of shoe type and shoe–pedal interface on the metabolic cost of bicycling " doi.org/10.1080/19424280.2016.1140817. This looked at running shoes on cheapo flats vs toe clips vs. the cyclist's personal clip setup. "As hypothesized, there were no significant differences (p > 0.57) in the metabolic power consumed for pedaling at 50,100, and 150 W: Nike Free and flat pedals: 445.7, 619.0, and 817.9 W; Nike Free and quill pedals with toe clips: 428.7,600.7, and 818.0 W and cycling shoes with clipless pedals: 441.6, 612.3, and 806.4 W, respectively. Though cycling shoes may have comfort or safety benefits, they do not enhance efficiency."
There are certainly differences between flats and clips, but it seems wrong to walk in with the claim that it's patently obvious that flats are less efficient when the science says there's no difference.
Everyone knows switching to the secondary is faster than reloading
Carry?!?!? That's the domestique's job!
Switch it up, ride your damn bike. Don’t just be a fanboy and ride what your favorite pro rider uses; ride what works best for you.
Articles like this that are informative but on the light side of being "in-depth" not would be great additions to the tech section over at cyclingtips.com
You own both sites, cycling tips is generally a little light on things that have to do with MTB so why not sprinkle some more tech content like this over there.
I ride both flats and clips.
My current flat pedals (Nukeproof Horizon) are simply amazing and I've never blown a foot off one.
The previous flats (Shimano Saint) were decent but there was always the chance of blowing a foot off when things got very rough.
5 10s are the only flat pedal shoes I've tried that are worth using.
I give this video two thumbs down. Sorry Christina.
Have any of you ever considered the old school XT/rat trap-type pedals (not the SunTour XC bear traps) with the mini-toeclips? Those are a great option, especially for longer distance/bikepacking.
I use flats on my trail bike and clips on my XC. I do not notice a difference. I ride up hills faster on the XC bike but it is a carbon hardtail so much lighter than my alu full sus trail bike.
What do you use? Do you have a recommendation for a 'flat feeling' setup without forking out big for Mallet DH?
That being said, as a beginner I'm not too sure which way to go from here. Flats for skills building first then plan to switch to clipless? Or maybe flats all the way? Or yet clipless right away to build the 'right' (right?) habits from the get go and never mind flats?
Just got my bike a few days ago and already scratching my head what pedals/shoes to get now lol
What you say makes sense. I’ll go with flats first. Cheers for the recommendation!
J’aime leur diversité, je peut les utilise dans mes sandales durant l'été, facilement éjecté de mon vélo sur les sauts et même les utiliser sans problèmes sur les pistes de Downhill. C’est pour ca j’ai jamais eu le désire d’essayer les pédales automatique car comme ils dit “Si ce n’est pas cassé ne le répare pas.”
I plan to be back on clipless most of the time- but it's honestly been fun to inject something new and work on different skills for a little while too.
I'm never going to be a pro, just out riding my bike. Fast is fun. But hot damn I do like me a foot out drift.
I just need a good pair of shoes that will allow me to walk for long days in the mountains (lots of push and carry the bike sections in the alps...) Any idea on the kind of shoes I need?
Flats keep you honest-are you properly preloading and pumping the bike?? You get immediate feedback! Rock strike? That chunky flat will stop you right there! (where an SPD would grind through the hit). Set up poorly for a technical up-move? The sweet spot (power delivery) is smaller on flats, so you're less likely to muscle through.
A couple of seasons in, I'm riding bigger moves-and on flats-and with more control!!
For racing-clipless is still (a little) faster. But even for most beer league racers (anyone who reads this) I'd say get on flats for a season. You will feel like you've regressed when moves that seemed easy become regular dabs. You'll mutter dark oaths when a foot comes off on a long climb. But 10-20 rides in....you'll notice that those rock strikes aren't happening. Your feet stay on when you climb. You'll feel planted descending steep chutes. You'll be waaay more in control getting the bike in the air. You'll have become a better bike handler. And that's an awesome feeling!!!
And you get to keep those skills if you go back to locking your feet down the next season.
Roadies and xc racers use clips for a solid platform to sprint in - the whole lift up is nonesense but push trough the top and pull back through the bottom of the stroke helps power delivery and is easier in clips (not impossible in flats obvs).
If I didn't have a spaz foot that makes unclipping tricky I would consider going back to spd's full time but as it is I like being able to get a foot down quickly. I do find spds helped me clear climbs more often as instead of giving up and dabbing I would grab another spin of the cranks while thinking about unclipping and probably clear whatever caused me the problem.
Head here if you want to know more, they are awesome, i wouldn't go back now!
pedalinginnovations.com/?referrer=137
- Clipless have smaller profile => it's much easier to get a pedal strike on flats.
- Flats are no-brainer to get back on after a dab or foot-out => getting clipped back needs attention which can be distracting.
(Well this video slightly touches the second point.)
Do you have any factual evidence to prove other?
www.pinkbike.com/news/interview-connor-fearon-i-can-honestly-say-that-clips-are-better.html
I ride both, but always go back to clipless on my MTB's. However, I "only" use flats when riding my E-MTB, as I don't want to be clipped in to a much heavier bike. I've been riding since the late 80's and clipless to me seems more efficient and takes less energy on the steep climbs & they're easier to hop bike over obstacles, etc + you do not have to constantly worry about your feet coming off. No question, flats are better when riding bike parks, or very steep descents where you may have to bail quickly. The biggest adjustment for me going from clipless to flats is learning how to jump again. Clipless you have a tendency to pull up on the pedals and when on flats, this can cause your feet to come off pedals easily. Switching between the two, can definitely help with your bike riding skills...Tip: If you are a beginner, go flats to start with (as bruised shins are better than not being able to clip out on a steep hairy descent or a jump gone horribly wrong...)
Clip:
A device, typically flexible or worked by a spring, for holding an object or objects together or in place.
www.lexico.com/definition/-less
-less:
(forming adjectives and adverbs from nouns) not having; free from.
Essentially this article is titled Flats VS Flats.
You are welcome.
It's soggy in Missouri this weekend (where I live during the academic year). I think I'll convert my Fuel into a hybrid (slicks, old-lady-seat, clipless pedals) and ride paved bike paths. I'm a little nervous about twisting our of my ATACs since I've been on flats for more than a year.
Another observation, women MTBers should be discouraged from wearing baggies. However, it should be required for men, particularly old ones like me.
Number one benefit of flats is that it helps beaters be less scared of biking. Which technically is a nice benefit, lots of my friends who got in to biking used flats for this reason for their first season or two. Only reason to keep using them, though, is if you do jump tricks that require moving your feet around. Otherwise you're just making your life harder for no reason. Which is fine, doesn't make my life harder... but come on.
This again?!?
Flat on the left, clipless on the right. Haha!
- WAKIdesigns
That girl can ride!
How about this pedal?
Check out this video from GMBN: www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFgHaMHeKyM
I'd guess Bruni, but that is a guess.
“I’m on flat pedals, Burgtecs,” says Bryceland. “Just ‘cos I’ve been getting my feet off a lot as I don’t know when the bike is going to turn. I much prefer riding flats, but some tracks are so rough you need to clip in just to keep your feet in.” 2016 bike check
I want to get the record for most negative reps:
People who ride clipless are “dog faved poney soldiers”!
For climbing those wonderful PNW hills, you'd be better off clipped in...assuming you can climb it and you're not a hike-a-bike type.
You trying to get a job here or something?