Video: Commencal's Youngest Guns Send It in 'Clash Kids'

 My gripe is the 165mm cranks on the YT jeffsy 26 and Clash Jr. I have 170mm on my enduro and I am 6'1". My kid isn't yet 5'0" I used 152mm that I got from suntour on his bike . (old Grom 26/24")
SRAM make shorter cranks, why not spec them? for 2500 it should fit out of the box.

 Gutted I bought the 2020 Meta HT. I had to pay to swap out the cranks and saddle. The 2021 bike has fixed those specs, added a dropper post and knocked 200 NZD off the price!

 Thicker JUnit grips you say? Why when I asked them did they say they were not going to make any?

 @dirtpedaler: I thought that was what was on this new bike. 27mm grips or something like that?

 Ignore me, I'm being an idiot. I was looking at the US site not NZ.

 @Svinyard: You are correct. Emailed Hayes again asking for availability. It would be nice if they offered three different sizes, 27 is a big jump up and adult size is 29.

 @Svinyard: So I've seen the larger grips mentioned on MTBR, now on the 2021 bikes but Hayes still saying no such thing...

 @Svinyard
I just bought a Clash 20 2020 (yet to arrive) and a friend of mine bought a Clash 24.

What issues did you have with the rims on the 24?
Have you tried tubeless?

The price increase for 2021 is too much, I think with that difference you can buy better parts where it counts.
And the new YT I just found about in some comments below is much cheaper and better than the 2021 Clash 24.

 @uskas: Hey man. So the good news is that the Geometry and suspension is probably the best ever made for a grom enduro/aggressive trail bike. And not just for DH...we do very little lift service. It climbs great once you fix the spec up a bit. The downside is the spec outside the suspension. That's where YT killed it for only 1899$...almost the whole spec is pretty nice, tho still on the burly side. YT had some chainstay issues but they shutdown sales and then fixed it I think. It's long than the Commencal by a decent amount but I haven't ridden it. I do know that the Commencal straight up slays tho and has killer looks. Its a beautiful bike.

These first two items are the big ones. It'll cost around 650$ to fix and should be done out of the box.
1- The 155mm cranks are way to long. We tried them, it was dumb. We got 140mm with new BB for about 110$ from Prevelo here in the USA. Immediate improvement. 140 is just ideal, period.

2- The wheels are ridiculously awful. They are so freaking heavy, especially when paired with the Flow Snap tires. The tires are fine, you could drop 100g going to DHF/DHR2 combo but that's not a huge deal and I wouldn't compromise and move away from the gnarly tires because they are way more capable. The problem is the wheels. I bought some custom Stan's Crest 32h/red Bitex hubs wheels for 470$ (Wayne @ Speedbikegear) and dropped approx 2lbs of rotational weight off the original wheels. Massive improvement, instantly. My 8yro kid is sending some significant freeride lines with 6ft+ drop etc and the 32h Stan's wheels are perfect when paired with 24" minions.

EDIT: I just weighed the stock rear wheel with cassette, rotor, tire, tube...its 3,055g (6.74 lbs)...lol. Fwiw rotational/unsprung weight is the absolutely worst for kids (plus tire BS included), we were able to do back to back testing with lighter wheels etc. Night and day difference. Frame weight etc...not a big deal, which is why "overall bike weights" are a BS metric for kids' bikes.

3- The brakes are terrible (tektro 275)...the worst I've ever seen, but they do work for a while. We did swap them for leftover XT's.

So that's the main stuff. The wheels are priority number 1 followed by the cranks.

 @Svinyard:
Thanks for the infos.
I get you did not try tubeless

My friend will not throw that much money for the upgrades, I'm sure.
Good news is that his kid is talented enough to handle it and he'll get a better one when switching to 26.

For my kid's Clash 20 I'll keep the wheels and I plan to reduce the weight by changing to tubeless with some Schwalbe Little Joe.Would be approx 300g per wheel, quite a lot. Not the best option but my kid is not riding too hard for the moment.
Cranks will be replaced with 115mm ones, will drop some grams there too.
And I've seen some really light titanium square BBs at a good price.
And some more small parts and tricks, upgrades around 15% of bke price ,should not cost more than my bike in the end . It's always a compromise with kids bike.

 Hi @uskas, looks like you and I are on a similar mission.... One question, as you're looking for a low weight aggressive kids bike with 20" tires, did you also consider the propain frechdax? If so, what made you choose the clash instead? Thanks!

 @rynee:
I had the chance to put my hands on one that was 1 or 2 years old and I did not like how the fork worked.
I also tried one HT from commencal and the fork was much better. I also put my hands on a Commencal clash 20 and is a tank. I would say it depends on the purpose: Frechdax is more XC oriented , Clash is more downhill/bikepark oriented.

 @uskas: thanks, those are valuable insights. I'm curious how much the early rider full suspension hellion will be in Europe. I'm afraid their launch was corona-delayed. I really like their hellion hardtails. let's hope they're still around in a couple of year when my son grows into the proper age.

 @rynee:
So, I ceceived my Clash 20
Actual weight with original pedals is 13.1kg.
I made some upgrades and is now at 12kg.
Most weight reduction came from tires where I switched to Spawn Brood Maxtion (so damn expensive with shipment from Canada). Default tires from Vee have 725g and the tube inside 210g. Maxtion have about 440g and with tubeless another 50g, so I saved about 450g per wheel.
The Maxtions hold tubeless well and are a sort of miniature HighRollers / DHR2 , so good braking traction.
Vee Flow snap are a sort of DHF and are not so good at braking but they still have good traction in general.
Default Vees I also tried tubeless and they worked somehow (slow leackages that should not be an issue at low pressures) but I suspect they saved some money there as they are wired so most probably not real tubeless ready. If you have a look on the Vee Tires site they don't even have this option so it must be an OEM option (a bad one).
Only issue I have with the Maxtions is they are just a little too narrow maybe, but it's something you can get used to.
When my kid will grow more I think I'll take a set of tubeless ready Vee FlowSnap as the outer diameter of the wheel is also bigger compared to Maxtions.
Some more reduction came from changing the cranks to 115mm (527g - 482g ~= 50g) and the bottom bracket (320g-250g = 70g). I ordered a Titanium square BB from China with 30EUR and if it's 140g as advertised there I gain another 100g there and that should be it.

I still have a problem with the fork setup (seems like the two air chambers are not equalyzing) so the fork is too stiff.
In use the max travel is about 30% (my kid doesn't do jumps yet). As a result I wrote an e-mail to Manitou, I hope I get the needed help.

Bike is much overbuild, they could have easily saved weigth on the wheels (rims are very thick, spokes could be less and double butted) and on the rear triangle. But there is no better option I think and my kid loves it.

 @rynee:
Just in case you have to deal with a Manitou Junit 20 in the future (quite high probability in 20 inch category) :
I did not receive a reply from Hayes yet so I did some research and opened the fork.
If you ever try it , make sure you have a thin wall 8mm socket wrench (can be found in the Mattoc Service Tool kit).
On the top of the air piston there is a valve that can be used to equalize the positive and negative chanbers.
That can be actuated by the pin of the air valve.
At the same time the air valve at the bottom of the fork (quite a bad design to have that close to the brake disk if you ask me) is used to fill in the negative chamber.
For some reason, when connecting the shock pump, air was only entering the negative chamber.
I think this design is very sensitive to shock pumps and it's bet to have one where you can set the travel of the pin precisely after connecting the pump.
So, what I did was to inflate the negative chamber a little (fork travel will be reduced).
Then force the fork to remain fully extended and actuate the pin of the air valve just a little(about 1mm) until you feel the fork remains extended by itself (air flows from negative to positive chamber).
Now I have a fork that is suitable for a kid. Using my weight I can easily bring it to full travel.

Related to travel, measuring the air shaft at full extension it is more like 100mm. The topout bumper can be compressed 10-15mm , but I would not say it is a full 120mm fork.... but whatever, it works ok.

Inside the shaft there is a white cylinder shaped spacer of arount 40mm. If one really wants I think it can be removed and replaced with 30mm of mattoc travel adjuster discs and increase the travel a little. I asume this would also increase the volume of the negative chamber a little (white spacer is of hard plastic and ocupies all space) , achieving an effect similar to that of Luftkappe. But this would be too much I guess and I also did not check how much the damper side can extend.

 @uskas: Hi, wow that is a very detailed explanation, thanks a lot! it'll take a few years until we'll be reaching that point, I'll keep it in mind! good luck and I hope your little one(s) are enjoying the new ride. all the best, rynee

 When I was this old I had a walmart supercycle.. the model name was "mountain bike"

 @kookseverywhere: I used to break the fork on my bmx every 2 weeks... blisters due to hard as concrete grips.. but as I have 2 kids, 8 and 6, and they do ride decently, I got the 2020 clash 24.. best 5 days in Morzine/Les Gets....

 Yeah that needs to happen yesterday. Too much talent and terrain there to not do a fun edit with them. (Hayes too!)

 This bud. There is something pure about those few young kids that just shred on a bike. Watching them ride and jib down the hill off every loving side hit possible...is awesome. No one is having more fun. We can all take a page out of their book.

 i've just realised that i suck at biking!

 Then don't buy a FS bike for a 6 year old? My 5 year old rocks a cannonale cujo, and I can promise you he rides more terrain than 75% of 5 year olds out there. Rigid frame, 2.6" wide rubber, $600.

 Yeah I was looking at the Commencal for my son but $3500CAD is a bit steep! Compared to Norco Fluid 24 for $2200, RM reaper for $2400, Kona Process 24 $2600... I am comparing 2020 vs 2021 models but you get the idea...

 @pcledrew: There's a big progression from 5-7 years if your kids are riding hard. My son is 6, on a Norco charger HT and also sends it down a lot. However, the progression in the past year has been astounding and although I scoffed at FS bikes for kids a year ago, I'm now pretty sure I'd like to get him a FS in the next year.

 @LukeL: I agree, I did not say the individuals child wasn't shredding. What I did say is that you dont need a $2500 bike to shred at least somewhat. My 8 year old is hitting jumps and riding a good many trails, also on a rigid bike. FS coming later this year as he is now becoming a shuttle partner.

My point remains, if you dont want to spend $2500, don't buy a full suspension kids bike. Want them to ride well? pony up.

 @LukeL: Don't overlook the Transition Ripcord.

 @pcledrew: agreed, a lot can be done on a HT, but as you say once they're becoming shuttle partners you do have to spend some $$$.

I think @Snowsed341 was pointing out that the '21 Clash 24 is a bit too pricey and I tend to agree with him there (it's $600CAD more than the 2020 model). I was considering it, but will probably get one of the other options and save ~$1000. But for sure there'll be folks who buy this one.

 @LukeL: Yeah i was just saying that even the hardtail over 1000.00 is pretty steep.

Norco has a full suspension option for 1699.00, that is where i think the pricepoint should be. Kids don't need super fancy drivetrains, handlebars, stems, etc

Suspension is what needs to work well and geo.

Commencal is still a direct to consumer brand, there is no middle man, so the savings should be greater IMO.

 @Snowsed341: then buy the Norco....

 @arrowheadrush: Do you have kids? Would you spend 2500 on a bike that he will out grow in 2-3 years?

Just interested on your take?

The norco is a great option and likely the route i would take.

Please not that last years version was 2100.00 so the bikes saw another big increase in cost year over year.

The PRICE WENT UP 600.00 year over year for the 24" clash.

 @Snowsed341: We have a custom clash 24" I got for 1999$ a year ago. Its so sick but took a bit of upgrades unfortunately. My 2nd grader rides the piss out of it on freeride lines and it goes uphill really well too. However if you are buying a FS 24" today, YT Primus is the ticket by a mile. I've spent time with the cheaper new Norco FS 1699$ model. It's not all that. The suspension is gimped, the tires suck etc etc. The fork has a crappy air spring in it unlike the normal or Pro JUnit which is game changer at these low psi. For 200$ more from YT you get a vastly superior suspension, wheels (duroc!), tires, cockpit etc. Its not even close for about the same money. Not perfect (cranks) but a bad ass bike for 1899$ that's better than every adult bike in this price range (that I know of at least). Old school stuff like the Ripcords etc need to be updated asap too if they want to keep up. Junk suspension relative to Manitou's.

 @Svinyard: thanks for the info... Yeah those air springs are terrible! I'll check out the YT

 @Svinyard: Thanks for the insight, ill check it out.

 @Snowsed341: no i don't, and its irrelevant. i don't understand the point of complaining about the price of a bike when there are cheaper options. i don't complain about the price of top of the line AXS builds because i'll never buy one....

 @arrowheadrush: thank you for making the point clear. Can’t figure out what that person is complaining about.

 @Snowsed341: much like the other person said, having kids or not is irrelevant on this discussion. That being said I do have kids.

$2500 for 2-3 years of use, with about a 50% recovery of cost on resale?

Seems like a no brainer to me.

 @Snowsed341:
One think you might not consider is the better resale options of a FS kid bike compared to an adult one.
Then the price is more bearable.
And the time spent riding with yout kid(s) is priceless

 @Snowsed341: this is why I have no problem buying used for my kids. Once they get to adult medium, maybe they get the new good stuff.

 @uskas: Yeah its not a purchase its a rental. Better is to run a simple "Cost of Ownership" calculation. A nice kids bike (air suspension and decent components/geometry) will get you around 70% resale (I see it all the time). So you'll be out roughly 750$ after its used and sold as long as it isn't a trashy bike from the big brands like Specialized and their kids trash. That's phenomenal compared to an adult bike. I literally have guys lined up for our clash 3yrs out. That's why they are never on PB or Craigslist...they sell fast. If the expensive bike isn't in the budget, grab a BMX. The best way to train a kid to mountain bike...is to not buy them a mtb but a BMX first and ride the hell out of it at BMX park, pumptrack, skatepark, small DJ lines and around the neighborhood...the repetitive stuff. Their skills will be years ahead of other kids just bumping down the trail with Dad.

 @pcledrew: I think the price is pretty high. Not that its too much money for a kids bike but for me its simply that you can buy a competitors DTC bike in the YT Primus 24" 1988$ for a whopping 800$ cheaper and get an arguably better bike. Better wheels, better shock (YT's is custom tuned for a 70lb +- rider), better tires (worse brakes and cranks).

 @Svinyard: I am lucky enough to have good riding trails and cheap shuttle each weekend 6 months per year where I live. So buying made all sense. I tried buying second hand but as you just mentioned you can't find anything, it's like the old models were never sold.

 @arrowheadrush: Its not irrelevant at all. You only have to provide for you and maybe one other not 4 or 5 people. So if you don't have kids you don't understand the cost involved in paying for healthcare, schooling, food and a bigger place to live, please see your self out. I'm not arguing with a person that doesn't have any of those costs. If i was a single person i could afford 3 personal 10k bikes.

What i am pointing out is that the price went up a lot.

If you are a single person and don't have kids then stop commenting because you have no understanding of real living costs with a family.

If you have a family and an understanding of the costs involved i respect that.

I don't respect some 16-20 something swinging his 0 experience around, keep pounding on the keyboard big guy.

 @Snowsed341: ok...so buy the norco and stop complaining.