Video: Devinci's All-New Troy - First Look

Sep 30, 2020
by Mike Levy  

Modern trail bikes have become the answer for almost everything from a lap on your local flow trail to that rowdy enduro race thanks to advances in suspension and geometry. The latest one to add to the list is Devinci's all-new Troy, a 140mm-travel trail bike that’s meant to do all the things, even if some of those things are kinda sketchy.

The top-of-the-line Troy is the 'Carbon XT 12S LTD' model that comes with a 160mm Fox 36, 10mm more than the other four complete bikes, and sells for $6,199 USD.

Troy Details
• Travel: 140mm / 150mm fork (160mm on LTD)
• Wheel size: 29"
• New carbon fiber frame
• Split Pivot suspension system
• ISCG-05 chain guide tabs
• Super Boost hub spacing
• Weight: 33 lb / 15 kg
• MSRP: $2,799 USD to $6,199 USD
www.devinci.com
There is no zillion-dollar XTR or AXS-equipped Troy, but there are some much less pricey options. It all starts at the $2,799 USD model that gets a Deore 12-speed drivetrain and RockShox suspension hung off an aluminum frame. The GX Troy goes for $3,599 USD with an aluminum frame, or you can get a GX bike with some upgraded bits and a carbon front-end and alloy rear for $4,399 USD. Full carbon bikes start at the GX version for $5,199 USD.


While the less expensive models come with Maxxis's EXO and EXO+ casing tires, the 33 lb LTD gets sturdier DHF and DHR's with Double Down casing.


Frame Details

While it looks similar to the previous Troy, with a vertical shock compressed from above via Split Pivot suspension, it's actually an all-new animal from front to back. And unlike its predecessor, this one is designed around 29" wheels for all sizes - there's no longer a 27.5" wheeled Troy in Devinci's catalog.

The Canadian brand has done well on the new-frame checklist, with two-bolt ISCG 05 tabs around a threaded bottom bracket, internally routed lines (although not pass-thru), and room for a large-sized bottle inside the front triangle. There's also room for a 2.6" wide rear tire, which is why Devinci has stuck with the 12 x 157mm Super Boost hub spacing used on the previous Troy, although they also say that this version is slimmer externally for more clearance.


The lower shock mount wrangles cables.
Routing is internal, with wide ports to hopefully make maintenance easy.

The flip-chip at the lower shock mount supplies half a degree and 3mm of bottom bracket change.
Heel rub protection on the chainstay.


Devinci used a flip-chip at the lower shock mount on the previous Troy and they've brought that over to the new version as well; it provides half a degree of angle and 3mm of bottom bracket height adjustment. The upper mount is Trunion, of course, but rather than just being a couple of spacers at the other end, the shock hardware unit does double-duty as a cable guide that keeps them in check between the front and rear triangles.


Devinci uses a Split Pivot suspension system for the Troy's 140mm of travel.


Rear Suspension

The new Troy’s 140mm of travel is controlled via a Split Pivot suspension design that sees the rear pivot rotate concentrically around the axle, with a rocker arm that compresses the Fox Float X2 from above. It’s a pretty straightforward layout that’s said to separate the acceleration and braking forces while also offering a good mix of energy and small bump compliance. And with the latest, ultra-adjustable shocks, you should be able to set it up to match your needs.


With Split Pivot suspension, the rear pivot rotates concentrically around the axle.


All models of the new Troy come with an air-sprung shock, but anyone looking to assemble their own aggressive trail bike will be pleased to hear that it will play nice with coil springs as well.



Geometry

Compared to the previous version, the new Troy is 15mm longer across the board, with a large-sized bike getting a 480mm reach in the slack setting that almost everyone will automatically put it in. At 65-degrees flat, it’s also a degree slacker than the old bike, although the geo adjustment lets you steepen that by half a degree and raise the bottom bracket by 3mm.


One thing to note: My test bike is the LTD version that comes with a 160mm-travel fork, 10mm more than the other four bikes. That relaxes the geo by about half a degree and lifts the bottom bracket by just a smidge. Devinci is also doing size-specific chainstays on the Troy, with the extra-small to medium bikes getting a 435mm rear end, the large 440mm, and the extra-large a 445mm.


355 Comments

  • 90 5
 Wow, nice to see a trail bike spec'd with double downs. Usually see enduro rigs with EXO+ oem which always blows my mind. Don't have to do the +1lb on claimed weight to account for proper tires
  • 178 2
 Glad you like that, we also think that the weight penalty is worth it for those who ride hard. DoubleDown with MaxxGrip, you can get the bike straight from the shop to your local race and will be covered!
  • 14 0
 I was also going to comment on this. I hope this comes the norm for these types of bikes.
  • 8 7
 my XL spartan with Z1 coil front, ccdb coil rear, cushcore rear, edc tool, alloy wheels carbon bars and cranks is 34.5 lbs.

how is this 33 lbs ??
  • 30 0
 @tonkatruck: heavy is the new light, bruh
  • 30 28
 @cyclesdevinci 140mm travel bike...I'd say exo+ is the proper tire. I've punched holes in double casing tires as much as exo/lighter casing tires. I'd rather have a bike spec'd with trail tires and let me buy my own DH/heavy duty tires for situations that require it. And it is fair to say I live in the land of very sharp rocks. I would commend Devinci on building a rather modern but not crazy geometry. I love 140/160 bikes. Is there a reason DW bikes use superboost so much (Pivot, Evil, Devinci)?
  • 7 2
 @lognar: Commencals are sooo light !
  • 15 2
 Also, if you don't need DD's... it's so much easier to swap DD for EXO or EXO+ at your local shop... they will gladly take some extra DD tires... EXO's... not so much.
  • 5 0
 @cyclesdevinci: Nice spec, appreciated by real riders everywhere. Is this a new offering from Maxxis? OEM only?

@Maxxis: I've wanted a DHR II 2.4 WT DD Maxxgrip for ages but Maxxgrip has only been offered in the DH casing or EXO. Is this new? When can I buy? Also if new please offer the Dissector in same flavor.
  • 1 2
 @foggnm: Only the LTD version seems to be equiped with DD's, or not even that and they only specced this one like that for the review.
  • 24 11
 I don't get it. If you're rocking a 140mm bike you should be doing huge days in the saddle. No thanks on DoubleDowns unless you live somewhere with pointy rocks like Phoenix.

Do people really not pedal much anymore?
  • 8 0
 @PeterBikeman I think this is an enduro rig with "trail" travel #'s.
  • 4 0
 @cyclesdevinci: Sure took you guys a long time to make the Troy with a proper 65*HA ! I opted out of buying this bike do to the steeper HA for last few years. looks like i may have to re-interest myself to the purchase of another Devinci now the geo ,frame and subtlety of graphics / logo looks amazing from ground up!
  • 5 0
 @likeittacky: And with the LTD build with the 160mm fork you are looking at a 64.5 HA, which should suit your needs even better?
  • 9 0
 @DavidGuerra: Yes, only the LTD comes with DD tires. The other builds use EXO+ casing. The review bike is exactly the same you will find on your local dealer's floor.
  • 13 1
 @JustinVP: I donno, I pedal a shit load and have never cursed the extra weight of the DDs. But many a time myself and others have cursed the lack of puncture resistance and side wall strength from exo/exo+ casings. Also maxxgrip compound is muy bueno
  • 1 0
 @yupstate: agreed, the line between enduro and trail continues to blur every time a new bike is released
  • 1 6
flag shredb4dead (Sep 30, 2020 at 10:31) (Below Threshold)
 @foggnm: I'm disappointed is not 63.5 HA with a 78 SA angle but to each his own. I'll wait for the next version that is.
  • 2 0
 @JustinVP: as @PeterBikeman said, DDs are great, even if you do a lot of pedaling. I sure prefer extra puncture resistance (especially if I'm far off into the backcountry doing a lot of pedaling) over the little bit of extra weight reduction. I've been running DD casings in the back for a couple years now and have yet to flat (and I've lived in two different area - tucson, which is similar to phoenix, and now new england where I ride bike parks on a weekly basis).
  • 4 1
 @shredb4dead: that's not a trail bike then. Maybe wait for the next version of the spartan, which will probably come next year I'm guessing.
  • 3 0
 @PeterBikeman: maxxgrip last hardly a month if you actually ride and pedal alot that's the problem
  • 3 2
 @Phazz470: The Norco Sight, Transition Sentinel and Meta TR are all TRAIL bikes in the 140-150mm travel range pushing geo. Anything 150mm out back or less is trail bike in my mind. My Ripmo is 145mm and I consider it a trail bike as well, not Enduro. I will replace it with a more modern geo bike for next season.
Anyway, Devinci was more conservative this round. Not wrong, just not for me this time.
  • 4 0
 @heatproofgenie: those are available now - assuming you can find them in stock. It's been a crazy summer as I'm sure you've all experienced. We currently offer the DHF, DHR II, and Assegai in MaxxGrip with a DD casing.
  • 3 0
 @shredb4dead: get a Spartan
  • 3 1
 @Dropthedebt: I only want 140-150 real travel out back with aggressive geo for trail riding up and steeps down. Don't need 165mm out back for trail riding.
  • 1 0
 @shredb4dead: angle set and Lyrik then?
I have a '16 Carbon and swapped the Pike for a Lyrik at 160mm and have not wanted a new bike since, as much as this new one turns my eye. Beer
  • 2 0
 @Maxxis: Excellent! I was looking at your website when trying to determine that FYI.
  • 1 3
 Pedaling sucks. I almost exclusively ride bike parks now. @JustinVP:
  • 1 0
 @cyclesdevinci: how much does the reach change with a 160mm fork?

Also, I LOVE that purple color. Nice work!
  • 15 0
 @Maxxis: I know it's not practical to grow tire catalogs/stocks too much, but I wonder if tire brands are as blind as they seem to the different requirements for front and rear tires. I know I'm not the only one who would love to get a exo+ tire with maxxgrip rubber to use at the front, and a DD tire with Maxxterra rubber to use at the rear. None of these combinations exist as far as I know. Maxxterra is already sufficiently grippy/low on durability/slow rolling to use at the rear, and Exo+ is generally strong enough for the front...
  • 1 0
 @cyclesdevinci: posssibly wouldnt want to negate the balance tho.
  • 6 0
 @JustinVP: As others have said, rolling on a 1200+g tire beats the heck out of walking or fixing a flat due to a casing that isn't robust enough. This is coming from a skinny guy that pedals almost everything outside 1 or 2 big shuttle rides or park days a year.
  • 5 0
 @PeterBikeman: agreed. I pedal a ton, and live in the PNW, not somewhere that’s all rocks. I like the DDs partially because of the extra puncture resistance, but mainly for the super sticky rubber and for the additional sidewall support.
  • 1 0
 @shredb4dead: I agree that the norco sight and transition are a bit more aggressive. They definitely lean toward descending capability and do have 10 mm more rear travel. And just a question check of the geo, this bike with a 160 up front has a 64.5 HA (65 is with a 150 in the front)...same as the meta tr with 160, which also happens to have 140 mm in the rear. With 160 in the front, this bike is actually a tad slacker than the ripmo at 64.9. This bike certainly seems in line with the meta tr....leans toward an all around focus rather than descending focus like the sight. Just my thought.
  • 2 0
 @Phazz470: Yes, with the 160mm up front it is slacker than the currant Ripmo. That said I also run an angleset in my Ripmo to make it even slacker and it's even better on the way down a zero compromise going up. What this has told me is I want a md-travel 140-150mm with super aggressive geo when I'm ready to let the Ripmo go. 63-63.5 HA and 78 SA is just fine for the very steep up and downs here in B.C. Right now the Sight and Transition fit the bill best. I had a Devinci Dixon back in 2012 and it was great. Was hoping the new Troy would have been in the Sight and Transition camp so I would have an excuse to get back on a Devinci.
Again it's not bad geo at all but not what I'm looking for for my next trail bike.
  • 1 0
 @shredb4dead: totally understood. Even though I'm a devinci fan, I will say you probably can't go wrong with transition or norco. Both make excellent bikes that I myself would strongly consider. Good luck with the future bike purchase!
  • 1 0
 @cyclesdevinci: Great looking bike, but.... curious why the shock linkage bolts for the seatstay were threaded for a wrench on the INSIDE of the linkage? These would be much more mechanic-friendly if they were on the outside....
  • 2 1
 @cyclesdevinci: I appreciate your willingness to step into the PB comment Thunderdome. Most bike companies seem to be experiencing severe supply chain issues right now. Would riders likely find your '21 bikes on the floor at the dealer, or available to order through them?
  • 3 0
 @JustinVP: Why could not not do a huge day with a DD or DH casing? It's all about personal priorities. I would rather have to push an extra watt on each pedal stroke (DH casing or DD) but not worry on the descent as much and make sure I get to the bottom without getting a flat... specially after that long ass climb!
  • 2 0
 @frenchlinesandfrenchfries: I mean you could, if you're a beast of a climber. I don't mind 3000ft rides on DDs, over that they suck. It's just less fun to mash around on a playful, climbable 140mm bike on double downs for 95% of riders. Putting in a tube and a dollar bill twice a year really isn't that hard. But hey, if portly tires work for you, go for it.
  • 3 0
 @cyclesdevinci: Bike of the year? You guys need to get some hats and T-shirt swag up and running for all us fast DeVinci pilots!
Much luv brother!
  • 1 0
 Absolutely @lognar:
  • 1 0
 Arkansas is the King of sharp rocks @foggnm:
  • 4 0
 Big surprise that there is no consensus on our subjective preferences for the “right” tires for a trail bike.
  • 3 0
 @JustinVP: I do big days - 50km (30 miles) on my Cushcore & DD equipped 170mm 17kg SC Nomad.
It all depends on the rider.
  • 4 0
 @cyclesdevinci: will we get a 27.5 bike anytime?
  • 1 0
 @shredb4dead: Privateer 141 for you then.
  • 3 0
 @JustinVP: plenty of 5h rides since march on DD here. I don't mind the weight. I hate flats, and the sidewall support is also amazing.
  • 1 0
 @Maxxis: any chance of the Shorty Exo+ or DD in Maxxgrip - you need it on a wet conditions tyre far more than the others! Only available in DH as far as I can see. At least in the UK.
  • 1 0
 @cyclesdevinci: I have a new shop opening in the Midwest Chicagoland area

Are u looking for a new dealer in my area

Pdmbikes@gmail.com
  • 1 0
 Your bubble seems small @JustinVP:
  • 3 0
 I rode DD the last two years and it was the best! No need for inserts! I didn't find what I was looking for this year so tried a DHF 2.5 exo+ but had to ride with an insert! Had a pinchflat and came back to home because of that insert but had never pinchflat before.... Seriously it is so muuuuchhh simple to only have a DD or DH casing for about the same weight as a lighter tire + insert!

I just installed Michelin (was running minion since 2015) and add a FTD2 insert in the back. I like them but am now sliding on roots that I never did before so yeah.... I hope I can try a Dissector 2.6 Maxgrip DD next year!? And as someone else wrote here, I would like to have Maxgrip in Exo+ for the front (I remember having DHF EXO DD Maxgrip for at least 2 years but I think this is the only one we can have like this and now I want Assegai) as I don't need the extra weight of DD in the front anyway! PLease do an Assegai EXO+ Maxgrip @Maxxis !!! And yeah, would also like more Dissector's option in 2.6! Razz
  • 4 0
 @DavidGuerra: historically, we have been slow to bring MaxxGrip to EXO and EXO+ tires, but that has changed over the last couple of seasons. For example, you can get an EXO+ Assegai in MaxxGrip, which is pretty much the ultimate front tire. Look for more MaxxGrip options across our different casings in the near future.
  • 1 0
 @heatproofgenie: our website can be difficult to navigate - and we're working on that. However, we launched a new e-store this summer that is much more user friendly. Obviously, you can purchase directly from us there, but it's also a great resource for seeing what's available.

shop.maxxis.com/collections/bicycle
  • 1 0
 @mountainsofsussex: yes! The Shorty is currently available in a DD casing with MaxxGrip.
  • 2 0
 @yupstate: I smash enduro stages on my 2020 Troy all the time. In fact, the devinci EWS riders use the Troy on many stages throughout the year
  • 1 0
 I think it all depends on how much you pedal and the type of terrain you ride. Do I like DH Casing and DD support? Yes. Do I like to pedal really steep trails with them. No. For sure not. I think EXO+ is a good alternative if you don't puncture very often, choose smart lines and remain light on your bike. Specially for a mid travel bike.
  • 2 0
 @Maxxis: Well indeed, it seems that the versions that I was searching for have just come out. Exo+ Assegai maxxgrip and DD DHR2 maxxterra. Great!
  • 1 0
 @DavidGuerra: Oh shit you're right....but only for 29er, that's why I haven't seen it!! Frown Well, if I ever sell my bike, I'll get a 29er so I'll have a nice new Assegai maxgrip! That should be pretty insane!!!
  • 57 4
 The Django called and said he is bummed you guys forgot he was the first one with size-specific rear-end. But since Mike wasn't the one testing it for PB, I'm sure he will understand and get over it pretty fast.
  • 6 50
flag Jaybirdy (Sep 30, 2020 at 8:08) (Below Threshold)
 Curious why your making a 140 trail bike 33+ pounds!? Aren’t 140-150 carbon bikes supposed to be UNDER 30lbs! Confused ATM
  • 18 2
 @Jaybirdy: well for one thing they spec DD tires. It's an honest and realistic bike weight.
  • 2 0
 @Jaybirdy:

It does seem like a lot but I guess it's the intentions of the bike. Made to ride hard and without warranty issues.

Definitely a business decision to err on the side of caution with the frame weight which some others (e.g. SC 'C' level frames) do too. Between a burly frame and burly tires you're looking at pound or pound and a half.

Just like the Sentinel frame weighs a pound more than a Ripmo (carbon) frame. Is it stronger? Hopefully.
  • 5 1
 @WasatchEnduro: my 2019 Troy is a bit over 29 lbs how I built it w/XT pedals. Their frames aren't the lightest but they are solid as hell. New frame is apparently 100 grams lighter so no reason you can't build a reasonably light one.
  • 3 1
 @Jaybirdy: I agree with you on this, having owned Devinci bikes and ridden the fleet.To address the point people are making about DD tires, it is somewhat moot; because basically they don't realize that Devinci Bikes are as you point out, Heavy, due to the robustness of the frame. It makes the bikes kinda lethargic- (less lively feeling) when pedaling, causing more attention and energy to keep up momentum, compared to some other brands in similar travel range but love to be pushed on the DH side of things.Other words, built to last!
  • 3 1
 Hey don’t get me wrong~ I’d still love to try the bike.. just a bit porky it seems.. i always end up with at least a DD rear tire & an Assegai Exo+ front... But just ask Ibis Bicycles how they got their Ripmo below 30 some as low as 27lbs.. & 3 pounds is kind of a lot when it comes to being playful and agile on a 140-150 TRAIL bike is all I’m saying.

Would love to see this bike around a 6,000$ spec for 30lbs with the preferred tire choice I previously stated. Maybe in 2021 I suppose
  • 4 2
 @Jaybirdy: 30 lbs should defiently be the target weight with bike mfg for this category.
  • 6 0
 @likeittacky @Jaybirdy

With the same build wouldn't this bike (full carbon frame) only be about a pound heavier than a Ripmo?

That extra pound in frame weight could be a combination of the needs of this specific design, engineered stiffness/flex, but maybe more likely tolerance for frame failures. Not to say a Ripmo is fragile. Nobody I know has ever had a frame issue. And my guess is that bike will feel more than a pound lighter due to the increased anti-squat.

Anyway, yeah it's hard for some riders to justify moving from alu (i ride an alu ripmo) to carbon for only a pound of weight savings. And my bike is not flexy in the least.
  • 1 0
 @WasatchEnduro: you’re correct. I would imagine that the Ripmo is a pound lighter. I’m not so sure the lack of a high end build is a big deal here if they have framesets available. Most people would will probably be pretty happy with that XT build. That’s would I would get and add some carbon wheels and lighter tires.

Not sure what’s up with the larger diameter seatpost though? Why add the weight? Bike is already stiff as hell.
  • 1 0
 @WasatchEnduro: Thank you sir! I haven't looked at all the component specs, but yeah 1 lb is not near as big a deal as 3-4lbs
  • 2 0
 @5chmaus: Do you think so? My aluminium Spindrift weight less with a mullet setup. 180mm on the front and 195 on the back. Size M , Fidlock, pump, tools, tube , spare parts and DD / SG tires.
31 lbs to be honest and to only expensive part is the Direttissima...
  • 1 0
 @Serpentras: Well something's wrong... All the aluminium enduro/superenduro bike nowadays are 34-37 lbs! Not even with DD... Nothing's wrong with this bike, I even found it light enough (for 140/160mm with DD) that it made me consider it as my next bike! loll

Also my first enduro bike was a super light one (I was coming from trail bikes and not super fast/hard rider) at 28lbs. All aluminium except crank and handlebar. I cracked the frame.
  • 1 0
 @Timo82: Well a friend or mine got the SC Nomad V4 carbon, weight 29,5 lbs with DD tires and spares, ect. But the bike is almost twice as expensive as mine.
My next AL frame weight a third more then my Spindrift weight.
  • 1 0
 @Serpentras: Yeah I've demoed a Nomad and it was f*cking light for a big bike!!!
  • 18 0
 I've got a Knolly Fugitive shipping any day now... if I didn't, I'd be looking really hard at this bike. Seems like a modern but not crazy, hard hitting but not excessive, hardcore trail bike. The spec on the Xt Carbon build is really good... XT, nice RF wheels. I'm not crazy about Fox, and would want to put a Bikeyoke dropper on it... but I think these are super nice bikes. Probably a notch up from the Fugitive on the gnar scale, which is already a notch highere than I 'need,' but definitely interesting.
  • 3 1
 I have been riding the fugitive since the start of the year. Fantastic bike, I predict you are going to love it. Sounds like the new Troy is in the same category but I would be surprised if it rips any harder than the Knolly.
  • 84 63
 Stop trying to make Super Boost happen.
  • 80 33
 Stop trying to make 148 Boost happen. 157 has been around longer...
  • 173 45
 For sure! As soon as everyone wants to go back to narrow tires, inappropriate tire clearance, long CS and small front ring clearance. In the meantime, we are very happy with the flexibility it gives us for our frame design around the Split Pivot system.
  • 6 5
 at LEAST it can fit only up to a 2.5" tire for a 157.
  • 19 2
 @cyclesdevinci: what is the max chainring size? Many bikes nowadays running 148 rear are capable of sub 440CS, 2.6” tire clearance, and a 34T chain ring.
  • 28 21
 @cyclesdevinci: I'm calling BS. The 2012 Specialized Enduro 29er had great tire clearance, 430mm chainstays, AND room for a front derailleur.
  • 62 2
 @pcledrew: It can fit a 36T, S-M frames use 435mm CS and the tire clearance fit a 2.6 with plenty of clearance. Just like a 2''x4'' is not exactly 2 inches by 4 inches, the same goes for tire and frame clearance. Some will claim a 2.6 clearance, but will barely fit certain brand's 2.4WT. When we say it fits a 2.6, it is because all 2.6 will fit in there with a lot of clearance to make sure it does not damage your frame. We know not all frame designs are subject to the same challenges. For us, using Split Pivot, having the 157 spacing makes it possible to achieve everything we require.
  • 18 39
flag speed10 (Sep 30, 2020 at 6:30) (Below Threshold)
 @cyclesdevinci: somehow the competition has figured it out /shrug
Also- your 440 CS are not short by any means. Ditch the super boost please. The heel rub is unbearable.
  • 37 2
 @speed10: Heel clearance on this Troy is the exact same as the one found on our 2nd Gen 148 Troy so it should not be an issue.
  • 3 1
 @pcledrew: I checked their site, it is 2.6" which is sweet
  • 25 1
 I'm totally biased being a Devinci dealer but after riding Troys and Spartans for the last couple of years finally feel like I have a bike that's strong enough in the back section. These are big strong bikes for big strong riders and they don't have that saggy wobbly feel of way too many other designs. Especially with 29" wheels, the wider spacing is really nice.
  • 20 45
flag Drew-O (Sep 30, 2020 at 6:39) (Below Threshold)
 @cyclesdevinci: That’s total BS. How many bikes currently on the market have great tire and chainring clearance with 148? SB is 100% a dealbreaker for me.

When you have to spec heel-rub-protectors on both side or the rear triangle, you may have gone too wide.
  • 16 41
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Sep 30, 2020 at 6:41) (Below Threshold)
 Automatic no-buy if you have extra 148 wheels or don't want to hit your heels on the frame. 148 is already too wide and the advantages of are extremely minimal. F#ck the industry hype.
  • 52 3
 @Drew-O: As we mentioned, the width is the same as previous boost 148 bikes so not an issue. However, we have been speccing these protectors on our bike before we did SB+ rear end. Heel rub also happens on 148 bikes, we simply wanted to care for your frame's longevity.
  • 2 40
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Sep 30, 2020 at 6:47) (Below Threshold)
 Bike longevity over ideal handling. Less warranties but slower bike.
  • 21 1
 @speed10 @Drew-O:
Dude are you conscious that almost every modern DH bike have the same rear spacing that sb+ i.e. 157mm hub ???
How many time on it ? Any heal rub report ?
Stop spreading a**hurt BS yourselves.
  • 7 3
 @cyclesdevinci: I'm not personally a critic of the super boost rear ends but I'm curious as to why you would spec a quick release axle with that handle sticking out ready to snag something on the trail? Its a cheap and easy part to replace but I don't feel that most people would be removing their rear wheels often enough to warrant that.
  • 80 2
 @cyclesdevinci: Y'all might be the first brand to take it to the PB comments to defend yourself. Respect. It's a dangerous world down here.
  • 10 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: ideal handling? What in the world does that have to do with SB?
  • 23 0
 @millsr4: The idea was ease of use for people that are not always carrying tools, but we hear ya. We will keep it in mind for future spec considerations.
  • 78 0
 @GregorHayes: The goal is to be able to share our point of view and explain some of the decisions we make and the reasons for that. We think it is good to be transparent with you guys but we totally understand we can't make everyone happy.
  • 1 0
 @monkeybizz: I asked about chain ring. They replied that a 36 t can fit.
  • 10 1
 @cyclesdevinci: Awesome bike for sure. And as @GregorHayes said, good job defending your use of SB. Clearly you have years of experience designing bikes....the others arguing with you on PB here..not so much.
  • 23 0
 @cyclesdevinci: sweet I appreciate you guys interacting like this with the release, it takes some balls to do it in a pinkbike comment section... also, keep making those aluminum frames some of us still prefer them! Smile
  • 10 5
 @cyclesdevinci: I think the bike looks great. As for the Super Boost h8trs, it's progress. Do you have to buy it? No. However, like every advancement there are ways into it without having to toss everything. A 148 to 157 hub convertor from Problem Solvers is $20 and a wheel re-dish. Standard cranks with Boost spacing chainrings are fine too. I too thought Super Boost was dumb at first, as from the standpoint of pure wheel strength DH 157 is the strongest, but that is not the point. It's about giving frame designers more freedom and it's really not a big deal.
  • 14 41
flag speed10 (Sep 30, 2020 at 7:31) (Below Threshold)
 @cyclesdevinci: “narrow tires, inappropriate tire clearance, long CS and small front ring clearance.”

1,2 You listed tire width twice- but I don’t see many manufacturers spec’ing narrow tires these days.
3 Your chainstays are not short
4 no one was asking for 36t chainrings.

SuperBoost is a joke. Even the term was tongue in cheek. Stop trying to make it happen.
  • 21 5
 @speed10: You clearly have the answer to everything and know what everybody wants! You should start your own bike brand from threshold jail!!
  • 5 23
flag speed10 (Sep 30, 2020 at 8:05) (Below Threshold)
 @Spillner: pretty slick move attacking me vs offering an argument against my points.
  • 8 2
 @hamncheez: canfield with 412 mm chainstay on 29 with 142 mm hub;
  • 13 4
 @speed10: Attack? no attack. Its the same point that keep being brought up and answered by everyone here. The reasons behind it were given. Accept it, don't accept it. It's good to move on and talk about many other things no? And how is suggesting you to go into buisness and build what you believe is good and true an attack?
  • 6 0
 @hamncheez: And that frame was a complete noodle
  • 8 1
 @cyclesdevinci: I have been running 2.6" tires on my Stumpy non stop - just regular boost there and no issues. I worry super boost spacing would make my derailleur more vulnerable in rock constrictions; what is just a ding of the derailleur with current spacing is a bent hanger or worse with the extra 4.5 mm of impact. As long as my bike is still intended for trail riding, (not park or pure DH) super boost will be too wide for me, and it's not necessary to achieve clearance for 2.6" tires.
  • 8 2
 Why? Is is exactly the same hub width as 157DH that has been around forever. The chainline is the same, the centerline is the same and the rotor mount is in the same spot. The only difference is the flange width. Honestly, 157DH makes no sense as it uses the same flange spacing as 142 and just has a bunch of extra hub outside the rotor flange for no reason.

You can 100% take a 157 wheel off your DH bike and toss it on the Troy and it would work. Or, you could take a Superboost wheel off the troy and put it on your DH bike. They are 100% cross-compatible, but the SuperBoost wheel has the added benefit of better spoke angle.
  • 8 2
 I feel like I need to make an obligatory refute every time someone complains about Super Boost+. I fully support a re-invention of 157mm! For those of us with bikes whose designers were forward thinking, 157 works great!

@cyclesdevinci thank you for using an updated, existing standard on your bikes! Big Grin
  • 1 0
 @Alvey72: Both the carbon and al versions had al rear ends, and I don't think they were a noodle. Actually, when I first got mine it was, but that was because of the garbage rims that were spec'ed on it. Once I put decent rims on the bike it was fine, and I'm 92kgs naked.
  • 7 0
 @cyclesdevinci: you keep replying to comments which i cannot read because they are downvoted below threshold. Maybe give us more time to weed out the junk comments and then reply to the rest! Less stress for you!
  • 4 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Let me guess - ur still on a 26er??
  • 3 0
 It's ok the new Slash just came out without it, same with the Enduro + neither Trek or Specialized's E-bikes have Super Boost. Love em or hate em, Supa Boost will not be a thing until those 2 say.
  • 13 2
 @Jvisscher: I think you are making a very good point! I will be back in a few hours haha.
  • 1 0
 @coletrane-mtb: correct, till sram + w announce that as a benefit

Also it is not easy to fing sb hub despite standard already 2-3 years in place
  • 3 1
 @gnralized: True. Every modern DH bike weighs about the same as this trail bike too
  • 5 8
 super boost, andddd no one wants it.
  • 3 1
 157 is the future/past.
  • 4 19
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Sep 30, 2020 at 11:59) (Below Threshold)
 @bohns1: I'm on an e bike. Here is why Boost is faster than Stuper Boost:

1. You are less likely to have the wide chainstays interfere with your feet and cause handling issues.

2. More aerodynamic. Narrow is faster. Not alot but enough to make a difference if you lose a DH race by. 05 seconds.

3. What do you marketing hype stuper boost lovers think about Bruni winning the world championship downhill race on a 135mm hub just a couple years ago? Face it, you have nothing but marketing hype. You suckers will willingly swallow any hype pill that the industry puts in your face and regurgitate it once their pros are running it on their bikes.
  • 2 2
 @DoubleCrownAddict: the way we're going soon we'll be on tricycles with super ultra stable boost spacing
  • 2 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: As a side hobby, I've picked up some basic CAD and made a few full suspension designs (my favorite is a high pivot idler that otherwise looks like an Evil Wreckoning). I will say the space down there is tight (TWSS) and its easier with wider spacing. However, its not impossible with 148 or even 142 with just some additional engineering.
  • 8 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Clearly you will never ride a Superboost mtb, thats fine. and good for you! but if the industry decides to steer that way, well, thats what it is! I'm sure you have better things to do right now than to and convince people you are right and that the whole bike industry, frame designers etc are wrong. But then again, maybe not!
  • 5 10
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Sep 30, 2020 at 13:55) (Below Threshold)
 @Spillner: Nice attempt at distraction.

Super Boost is essentially the new BB30. The manufacturers are one again promoting an unnecessary standard to benefit their own needs(stronger frames), while at the same time inconveniencing customers in more than one way(heel rubbing and making old 148 wheels useless).

This is absurd, not many industries have the gall to do this to their customers but the bike industry continually does it.

I should also point out that we are talking about trail bikes here, not DH bikes. Bikes that you might pedal around all day, and it's no issue at all to have your feet hitting the frame all day long while you pedal?

This is not an issue for many riders who aren't duck-toed but it is annoying for a significant amount of people. I think it's an issue worth debating, and it is another example of bike companies not putting the customer first. You can build a 148 bike with adequate strength, but they are changing it simply because it's easier to build one with super boost. Probably also puts less area on the bearings so they can potentially save some costs there instead of running top quality bearings.
  • 11 2
 @DoubleCrownAddict: da fuq u on about homie... I dont even ride mountain bikes... But hey! If ur on an ebike i guess ur too old to hang with real mtbers anyways eh?
  • 3 6
 @bohns1: Is that all you got weakness?

So as far as the debate about the drawbacks about super boost, it appears the responses to my 5 valid points against it were:
nothing, nothing, nothing nothing, and nothing. Super Boost has nothing but drawbacks for the consumer. It's just the latest scam by the profit- driven marketing/ engineering jackasses in this industry who forced the inferior bb30 on us. Boycott superboost on trail bikes.
  • 11 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: While I dont necessarily disagree with your stance on SB157, you sir, are acting like an a*shole.
  • 2 6
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Sep 30, 2020 at 20:47) (Below Threshold)
 @pcledrew: I've mainly relied on facts.
  • 2 0
 @erlkonig: That's a good piece of info. Since I'm not that big and not that strong, there are probably alternative choices with more sideways compliance in the rear that would suit me better. Stiffer is not always better. I could live with the rear hub spacing, but if everything else is equal I'd pick a frame without a trunnion shock.
  • 2 3
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I get it. You don't like SB157. Hey, I don't like milk, modern country music, organized sportsball (or their fans), liver, Chick-Fil-A and religious people. BFD. None of those things are worth arguing over. I care not that anyone does like them nor will I engage in the futility of trying to stop others from such proclivities. At best we can live by example and educate. Some will see our point of view and maybe embrace it; some will not. So what? Now, lets ride.
  • 2 0
 Wow I don't get the hate!! It's been years now so there's a lot of choice for superboost now.... Why even care if you're buying a complete bike? You have a 5years + wheelset already? Just sell it damn it!! I bought a brand new wheelset for my Knolly and just asked for a superboost rear hub, that ain't hard. looll

I had heels problem with my first boost bike in 2016 in fact... I demoed a Commental Meta that was even worse but it really depends of the bike. Now on superboost (knolly warden LT) and no problem at all!! I have a boost crank and seriously, I never touch the rear triangle with my heels! This new troy will probably be the same. People were complaining about noodle 29'' wheels so that would be the answer to it.
  • 5 3
 @hellbelly: If you don't call out the poorly thought-out ideas by bad engineers/ marketing people in bike industry, they will repeat the same mistakes.

If people had been more aggressive in calling or the poor engineering behind BB30 wouldn't have taken over a much as or did and small bike shops around the world wouldn't have lost hundreds of thousands(actually likely millions) in labor costs trying to fix the massive amount of BB30 problems that happened for years due to a essentially defective design that the bike manufacturers forced upon the industry just to save a little bit of money in manufacturing costs.

We cannot trust all bike manufacturers to act in good faith, some of them are like politicians who will lie to your face in order to justify an engineering idea that doesn't really benefit consumers but saves them a few bucks.

Telling you they are doing this to make bikes stronger sounds good at face value. But when you examine the details of it and see that is really just to save money on warranties and manufacturing costs and it actually makes consumers waste their money or have a bike that they hit their heels on a thousand times every bike ride.

It reminds me of when bmx companies started making 40 pound freestyle bmx bikes in the late 90's. Did consumers ask for our want 40 pounds bmx bikes? Hell no. But some manufacturers just put them out their because they couldn't make lightweight and strong bicycles. But now they can. Just like how mountain bike makers CAN make strong frames with narrow rear ends, but it's not as easy so they just make it wide and in their marketing simply stress that it is stronger and pretend there are no problems when in actuality the problems are significant.
  • 2 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I am perfectly fine with voicing one's opinion on things that you don't agree with. Write the manufacturers, bike companies, educate those around you. If it's something causing physical/emotional harm stand up. protect and fight as needed. The thing is no matter how mad you get, it's simply you getting mad because the person/company/idea/thing your anger is directed towards doesn't care. At least they won't care until it harms their bottom line. If that is a cause you want to raise your sword against, then dogspeed. Remember, the opposite of what you believe is also true for others depending on the time, place or circumstance. The nice thing in this instance is there are plenty options outside of SB157. As for press fit, I am not a fan, but there are still plenty of companies employing variations in their offerings. Again, I make my choice/point and move (ride) on.
  • 5 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: i dont need anything more.. Ur an ebiker.. Nothing more needs to be said...
  • 15 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: This is getting pretty intense for a simple rear hub spacing. No it is not any different than using 148 for the bottom line. And no, if you try the bike you won't hit your heels on it. Go to a demo event and try bikes (whenever this will be possible again). You will be surprised to hit your heels on some 148 bikes, while you might won't on some 157... We been there, we done that.

Wishing you a great rest of the season. After all, riding bike should be all about having fun, and hopefully as far removed from politics as possible!
  • 2 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict : @Speed10 wants to go in buisness with you i am sure. I am not saying you are wrong are right. Just reallllllllllllly convinced so do it! I wish WAKIDesigns was still here to give us his opinion ^^
  • 1 6
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Oct 2, 2020 at 5:15) (Below Threshold)
 Devinci: "You will be surprised to hit your heels on some 148 bikes, while you might won't on some 157... We been there, we done that."

I hit my heels on 148 and 157 bikes, which over the course of a days riding slows a rider down alot and is annoying. At least 10% off the population is pigeon toe'd, your company is essentially putting you hand in the air and is giving those riders a big middle finger salute and telling them to screw off cause our concerns are more important than yours.
Wouldn't be bad if it was a DH bike but it's a trail bike.
  • 1 7
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Oct 2, 2020 at 5:27) (Below Threshold)
 @cyclesdevinci: How on the hell did Loic Bruni won a World Championship DH on a 135mm hub just 2 years ago????

He actually won that race by a pretty narrow margin, i wonder if the aerodynamics of his narrow rear end made the difference over wider and slower bikes like Devinci?

Proves this is all a bunch of engineering/ marketing bs that helps bike companies and not consumers.
  • 9 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: AERODYNAMICS OF NARROW FEET VS PILOTING SKILLS ON A DH TRACK! THATS THE ONLY REASON HE WON!! ???????????? Clearly not because of one less brake check, couple more pedals strokes, smoother lines, fitness or any other reason... OMG DUDE. I THINK I SPEAK FOR EVERYONE WHEN I TELL YOU : LOL. GO BUY A ROADBIKE, YOU FIT THE CROWD! ^^sorry caps.

and yeah, i think the industry hype on chains is way too big, Gwin won without one, clearly there is something there...marketing bs these chains.
  • 14 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: The main problem we have here is that you are arguing about something you haven't even seen. You haven't even tried the bike. I am personally ''pigeon toe'd'' as you put it, so very sensitive to heel rub. When we designed that bike it was one of the key considerations. So no, you won't rub your heels on the bike, the width of the CS and SS in the heel area is the exact same as second-gen 148 Troy, which was not problematic. The area where we needed extra clearance is closer to the crank, and this is where 157 helps in the design: providing great tire clearance (industry-leading from what we have seen), good ring clearance, flexibility for CS length design and adequate stiffness in the rear-end of the bike.

As for Bruni, come on, he would have won on any width rear-end. Aren't you the one that said having athletes on it means nothing? But if that's your kind of argument, then how about Stevie Smith that won the WC overall in 2013 on a 150mm rear-end. Would you agree that a season worth of consistent results involves more pedal stroke and aerodynamics than a single World Champ race?

Consider this our last reply. Hopefully, you will be able to go out and actually ride your bike instead of arguing about something you haven't even seen yet. Cheers.
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Here is a revolutionary idea... if you don't like it, don't buy it... bike companies are going to do what drives sales and if no one buys them I guarantee things would change. Whining on the internet does nothing but make you look like an infant having a tantrum. I, like you, have a controversial opinion in the bike MTB world (carbon is the wrong material choice for anything other than XC race bikes) but I also know that my comments on here aren't really going to change any opinions and I'm not going to waste my time and sanity to try and evangelize my point of view. Long story short, take a chill pill and go ride your bike...
  • 5 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: dude, still arguing about it 2 days later? We aren't talking about a bugatti here, where clearly aerodynamics are important when you're racing at 200+ mph. At that speed, the drag is huge. I doubt aerodynamics has much to do with his time, unless he was wearing a parachute. As @Spillner and @cyclesdevinci said, it's got nothing to do with the rear end being slightly wider. But yes, a couple of brake checks, a couple of smoother lines, that is what is going to make the difference. Please, if you're not going to share your CFD computations that support your argument, then don't argue about drag on a downhill rider. But oh, that's right, who does CFD computations for a downhill bike anyways?!
  • 6 0
 Can we all just agree to not drink before commenting? I think that would solve most the problems here.
  • 2 7
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Oct 2, 2020 at 6:41) (Below Threshold)
 @millsr4: If you know you are incapable of something you just waste everybody's time by even talking about it.

I won't buy it, and I've already tried it on a knolly. Seemed too wide for me, to the point of stupidity, honestly. There are no good reasons for consumers to be excited about this. There are reasons to make bikes wider but those reasons are justified by the desires of bike manufacturers and this was never asked for by consumers. Wheels are already stiff and not many frames break if made properly. For this reason It is a fact that SB+ for trail bikes is regressive engineering, not progressive engineering. The companies should be trying to enhance the riding experience and make bikes faster, not detract from the experience(heel rubbing all day long,
useless expensive148 wheels) and make the bikes slower. I view SB+ for trail bikes as a slow cancer that is creeping into the industry just like BB30 did, so I'm providing factual points to make people aware of the downsides of it. If you don't like or disagree with my opinions you are free to ignore them, just a i am free to not like this bike and state the reasons why. I haven't even addressed the negative effects on q factor yet, anybody want to go there?
  • 5 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict:
You are talking about fact ? I don’t see a single opposable fact on all your posts and your own experience is not generalizable to the whole MTB crowd.
“it appears the responses to my 5 valid points”
On the whole post I only I saw you debating on 3 points and since you wish to discuss them on the forum you’re not the one to decide if they are valid or not.

1st point (the stupid one) : “ You are less likely to have the wide chainstays interfere with your feet and cause handling issues”
Guys from Devinci explained you several time that their implementation of 157+ have chainstays as wide as their 12x148 implementation.
So on Devinci’s bikes, 12x148 chainstays width = 12x157 chainstays width. Figures. Fact.
Following your only reference to a 157 + test you did:
”I've already tried it on a knolly. Seemed too wide for me, to the point of stupidity, honestly.”
You’re not a lucky guy, ain’t you ? You just chosen the worst example to illustrate your thought : Knolly’s 12x157 chainstays at their widest point are as wide as their 12x142 chainstays... Too bad. Here the link, please educate yourself.
www.knollybikes.com/engineering
Others takes on Knolly 12x157 on this very post:
Timo82 (1 days ago)
“I don't have ANY issues with heel rub on my SB Knolly Warden LT but I had before on my boost bike...
usedbikestuff (1 days ago)
“Then I found out that @knollybikes 157 rear triangle was narrower than my 142mm canfield riot outside of frame to outside and realized forums complain about nothing!”
So what about the “validity” of your first point ? Close to absolut zero.

2nd “point” (the funny one): “More aerodynamic. Narrow is faster. Not alot but enough to make a difference if you lose a DH race by. 05 seconds.”

You just throwing meta-words and concept that you just heard of but you don’t have the smallest idea of what you are talking about.
Drag ? What do you know about aerodynamic drag coefficients calculations ? Even billions dollar jet fighter must underwent physical modelling of drag in wind tunnels because even CATIA software is not robust enough to model it perfectly…
So from where the s..t are you talking about drag effect on a 9mm (2x4.5 mm) increase in width of a bike rear end travelling at sub 50 miles a hour, in the better case ?!?
If 157+ has an effect on drag for what you know it should as well be positive.
That’s my “valid” point : rear vorticity/backpressure will be reduced by a wider rear end in compensating for 29 wheels aerodynamic drag increase.
Please make my day and prove me wrong.
(for others, I’m just kidding)

3rd ”point” (the aggressive one)
“What do you marketing hype stuper boost lovers think about Bruni winning the world championship downhill race on a 135mm hub just a couple years ago? Face it, you have nothing but marketing hype.”

In fact, what you really demonstrate here is a lack of reasoning capacity…
Loic won on a 27.5 bike in 2018. So if I follow your “reasoning” 27.5 is faster than 29 and then 29er are nothing than marketing hype ? Okay.
But the following season (2019) he won the world cup AND the world championship with still 27.5 rear wheel and 148 mm rear wheel spacing… Hmm. If I still follow your “reasoning”, an increase in rear wheel spacing is positively correlated to a DH win increase for Bruni… So if I follow this trend, he should achieve a total dominance in 2021 with the new demo in 157 + spacing, don’t you agree ? That’s my 3rd “valid” point : 157+ is not a marketing hype and it makes faster bikes.
(for others, I’m still kidding)

From here, you have nothing valid, zero, nada, to prove that 157 spacing is not a legitim industrial bike standard.
Of course, you can still go on braging and repeat stubbornly the same hollow, depleted arguments -and please do it again 1000 more times – but sorry, you’re plagued, it will not become a truth by any means.
  • 2 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict:
And lately :
“ I haven't even addressed the negative effects on q factor yet, anybody want to go there?”

Q-factor is the saaaaaaame duuuuuuuude !!!!
Only the chainline change by +3mm !!!!!
You can even run a very narrow XTR m9130 crankset on Knolly 157+ bikes bwahahahahahahahaha !!!!!!!!
With a 73mm BSA threaded BB !!!!!!
157 + is soooooooooo gooooooooood !!!!!
  • 6 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Pigeon-toed means the heels stick out and the toes are turned inward which would actually make it less likely to strike heels. For someone who touts his comments are rooted in fact you seem to get a lot of facts wrong.

First, "superboost" is not a new hub spacing standard in any way. It has been around for a very long time. Most DH bikes are 157 because it allows a stronger rear end. There is no compatibility difference between 157DH and "Superboost", they are fully interchangeable. Superboost just fixed a design oversight in the original 157DH hub layout where the flange spacing wasn't widened to take advantage of the extra hub width. The cassette, centerline and brake rotor are all in the exact same position.

I went from a 142mm rear end to a Superboost Pivot Firebird last year and have not once hit my heels. I am on a Spartan 29 now with Superboost and have still not hit my heels. I strongly suspect you have absolutely no experience with any of this.
  • 3 0
 @gnaralized: If you need a software that can model aerodynamics PM me! Catia is just a CAD modelling software. Razz
  • 2 1
 @millsr4 @cueTIP @gnaralized Cheers my dudes. The dragon has been slain
  • 1 3
 @gnaralized: @gnaralized: You are the one lacking facts and any valid points. It does widen the q factor and makes riders spare parts useless. From this article:

enduro-mtb.com/en/super-boost-plus-standard/#:~:text=With%20a%20standard%2093%20mm,on%20a%20Boost%20148%20bike.

"Compatibility
Of course, a new standard brings with it compatibility issues. Super Boost Plus requires not only new 157 mm hubs, but also cranksets and chainrings that are compatible with the required 56 mm chain line. Luckily for SB+ fans and converts, all major drivetrain, wheel and crankset/chainring manufacturers are now offering Super Boost Plus compatible options.

Q factor
Due to the wider dropouts and chainstays, and to meet the required 56 mm chain line manufactures had to engineer wider cranksets for Super Boost Plus frames. The result is a bigger Q factor – the distance from the outside of one crank arm to the outside of the other crank arm. The bigger the Q factor, the wider apart your feet are on the pedals. With a standard 93 mm press-fit or 73 mm threaded bottom bracket, the Q factor of a Super Boost Plus bike sits at 173-177 mm, compared to 168-177 mm on a Boost 148 bike. However, this is only really a change for XC riders, as enduro riders usually run wider pedals mounted to 177 mm Q factor cranks anyway.

Heel rub can be an issue
One potential negative of wider chainstays and increased tire clearance is heel rub, due to the chainstays butting out closer to your heels and reducing the amount of space you have to move your feet on the pedals."

I think it's debatable whether 27.5 or 29 is faster, depends on the track and possible conditions. But it is an absolute fact that a narrow bike is faster than a wider bike if everything else is equal. Stop grasping at straws. That's why this is regressive engineering and not progressive. If they really wanted to improve things they would make bikes narrower but instead they are making them easier to build for themselves and ignoring everything else. Luckily I don't think most manufacturers will go this selfish customer unfriendly route, but the ones that do deserve to be called out for it.

You can also put your blinders on and pretend that aerodynamics don't matter but if you actually have eyes you can see that World Cup DH riders trim down their kits to the point of looking like they are wearing tights to be just a little faster.
  • 2 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict:
from the Knolly page :
www.knollybikes.com/engineering
Q-FACTOR: 157mm hub spacing can be implemented using a flipped chain ring to maintain existing Q factors on XC / lightweight cranksets such as XTR, XO1 and Race Face Next SL

Ask Noel Buckley, Knolly CEO and owner of several engineering degrees, sure he knows one thing or two about 157+ the guy from enduro-mtb never heard about... Now if you prefer trust a third league internet media vs a guy who create his brand from nothing...
  • 1 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict:
"You can also put your blinders on and pretend that aerodynamics don't matter but if you actually have eyes you can see that World Cup DH riders trim down their kits to the point of looking like they are wearing tights to be just a little faster"

And until you prove me wrong there is still no evidence that a wider rear end will not lessen aerodynamic drag...
Just in case you didn't get it the first time (obviously) : fluid dynamics is a too complex discipline and you need to take into account for too much parameters to make such hypothesis.
  • 1 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict:

Universal Shimano qfactor is 176mm:
"The XT FC-M8000-1 (1x11s) is optimized for 1-way drive crankset, which is characterized II crank arm construction with a universal Q factor of 176 mm, a stable and rigid drive 24 mm steel shaft and a rigid, weight-saving Hollowtech."

shimano xtr m9130 crankset (SB specific crank, 56.5 chainline) : 171 mm qfactor
bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/xtr-m9100/FC-M9130-1.html

Race face 56.5 chainline (flipped DM ring, approved by RF, solutions in chart) qfactors:
Next SL: 170mm
NextR: 176mm
SixC(DH): 175mm
Turbine: 180mm
Atlas(DH):178mm
Aeffect: 175mm
Ride Cinch: 177mm
Average: 175.85

Conclusion : 157+ qfactor doesn't deviate from average trailbikes qfactor.
  • 1 1
 @gnaralized:
"Q-FACTOR: 157mm hub spacing can be implemented using a flipped chain ring to maintain existing Q factors on XC / lightweight cranksets such as XTR, XO1 and Race Face Next SL"

That's not very impressive considering most people wouldn't be likely to run those cranks on an aggressive bike with 157 spacing. And their bikes don't come with those cranks, they come with cranks that are spaced wider which makes your pedals more likely to hit things. It also makes for less than ideal pedaling efficiency, that's why road bikes keep the q factor as narrow as possible. 157+ is a horrific development for pedaling efficiency in many respects. You have the inefficiency of a bad q factor combined with hitting your heels on the frame all day long. Eddy Mercyx would be horrified if he rode this bike.

If you don't think the rear end of something makes a difference in aerodynamic testing you lack basic common sense about aerodynamics. Pretending that a 157+ is just a aero as a 135 is pretty disingenuous, but I'm getting used to your grasping at straws.
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict:

"But it is an absolute fact that a narrow bike is faster than a wider bike if everything else is equal"

Yeah, absolute fact indeed...

So following your reasoning, a fox 40, which got 40mm stanchions and a 716.5 mm height (from axle to top crown) got a 71.65 cm2 increase (figure a 8.46 x 8.46 cm surface) of its cross-section versus a RS boxxer with 35 mm stanchions (a full 10 mm width difference)...
Any evidence guys with fox 40 are slower than guys with boxxers ?
And you really believe than a 4.5 mm increase of rear axle width will change something - aerodynamically ?
If you're in for aerodynamics 101 please go back to physics school and learn f.....g fluid dynamics and drag calculations...

But please be kind and keep your absolute facts for fox news.
  • 1 0
 @Spillner: looks like you spoke too soon... let's give him a break though, he probably doesn't get enough attention at home...
  • 1 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict:

"That's not very impressive considering most people wouldn't be likely to run those cranks on an aggressive bike with 157 spacing."

Yes it's absolutely impressive since you can have the qfactor of an XC bike on a 157mm width real axl...
That's progressive engineering, what is so hard to understand ?

Even the guy from MTBR state that it will not change anything for trail bike riders (your own citation):
"However, this is only really a change for XC riders, as enduro riders usually run wider pedals mounted to 177 mm Q factor cranks anyway."
So no, sorry, there is absolutely no evidence that "157+ is a horrific development for pedaling efficiency in many respects" .
It's just in your mind.
And you can repeat it as much as you like, it will not become a truth.
You can summon Eddy F. Merckx or Bernard F. Hinault or even His Greatness Louison F. Bobet, 157+ has still the same qfactor as a 142/148 trailbike or even a XC bike if you want to put a lightweight crank on your bike.
I gave you the figures. That's a fact.
  • 1 1
 @gnaralized: I never said anything about forks but I know for a fact that a narrow bike is faster and sometimes races are won by very small margins. Do you disagree with that? Stop struggling with facts. Stop grasping at straws. You gave up on your weak q factor argument pretty quickly.

You don't acknowledge a difference in aerodynamics. You don't acknowledge when people hit their heels on wide frames it slows them down. You don't acknowledge q factor efficiency. You don't acknowledge it makes expensive 148 hubs useless. You don't acknowledge that existing frames and wheels are already stiff enough. You don't acknowledge that customers never asked for this. You don't acknowledge that bike companies did this for their own reasons and customer needs had exactly 0% to do with that. All these things are obvious but you acknowledge none of them. I feel like Biden in the debate with Trump. Do you ride a SB+ bike? That might explain your stubbornness.
  • 3 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: i'm not one to get into these things but your feet will brake the airflow. As you mentioned that you're worried about rub a 157 rear won't matter since your feet will stick out more than the rear anyways. From an aerodynamics perspective the fact that your heels are closer to the chainstays will prevent breaks in the airflow aka more aerodynamic. #science
  • 3 1
 @gnaralized: it's not worth it, I suspect he's just a troll
  • 3 0
 @Spillner: It would be cool to start a bike brand. I have thought about it. I had forgot about this thread but I see you mentioned me again. I creeped on your profile and it seems like your only activity is fanboying for Devinchi. Do you work for them or have some ties? I love the brand too. My 2018 27 Troy was rad. My final point would be that it is sad to see the lack of both 27 and 29 Troy, and I still think SB157 is dumb. If they would've skipped 148 and gone straight to SB157 I'd prolly be more into it. Whatever tho, bikes are fun. Crying on the forums is lame. Vote with your money.
  • 1 2
 @monkeybizz: only 1 heel is next to the chainstays and a wider back edge creates turbulence behind the bike which slows you down.

" it's not worth it"

I agree that it's not worth debating for yourself since you cannot bring valid points to the conversation.
  • 1 3
 Putting aside the q factor and aerodynamics arguments, none of this has been acknowledge by the SB+ lovers:


You don't acknowledge it makes expensive 148 hubs useless. You don't acknowledge that existing frames and wheels are already stiff enough. You don't acknowledge that customers never asked for this. You don't acknowledge that bike companies did this for their own reasons and customer needs had exactly 0% to do with that.
  • 1 2
 "I creeped on your profile and it seems like your only activity is fanboying for Devinchi. Do you work for them or have some ties?"

Lmfao, yeah he's not biased.
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I mean your profile says musician I wouldn't exactly believe anything you say lol Razz
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict:
"I never said anything about forks but I know for a fact that a narrow bike is faster"
Bike with fox 40 are wider than bike with boxxers but they win races at least as much.
So cross section differences between boxxers and fox40 makes no winning difference despite being one order of magnitude greater than crosse section increase generated by 157+ vs whatever you like.
So no, a narrow bike is not always faster. We are living in a non-linear, counter-intuitive world, sorry.
So I don't know if you are really able to catch it, but this show that what you believe about aerodynamic is defintelively not applicable to MTB... i.e. your common sense is useless for complex drag calculations.
And 157+ don't change anything on race results.

"You gave up on your weak q factor argument pretty quickly."
I get it ! You're upset with numbers.
Come on, make my day, I gave you the figures, explain me what I gave up with clear and intelligible terms for once.

"You don't acknowledge it makes expensive 148 hubs useless. "
Oh yeah ! This one ! I acknowledge this one !
148 will die, slowly phagocytized by 157+ in the same way 142 has phagocytized 132 and 148 for 142 ! I get it ! You don't believe in evolution theory !
Seriously, I believe this is your main issue with 157+... You're butthurt.

"You don't acknowledge that existing frames and wheels are already stiff enough."
Stiff enough for what ? On which scale ? Any figures about stiffness ? No. Just "common sense". As for all your argumentation.

"You don't acknowledge that customers never asked for this"
Monkeys never asked for bananas, nor bananas for monkey before they meet...
Deserts never asked for rain. Romeo never asked for Juliet. Beavis for Butthead.
But good, independant engineers did for 157+.

"You don't acknowledge that bike companies did this for their own reasons and not customers."
Devinci, Pivot, Mondraker, Knolly.
All engineering and rider oriented companies, with lifetime waranties on their frame and 0.5% market share togethers and against all every others...
Not your typical trekalized evil...


"All these things are obvious"
Sure they are for you, but you're alone....

"I feel like Biden in the debate with Trump."
Sorry, I feel like Bidden.
You argue like Trump : “More aerodynamic. Narrow is faster. Not alot but enough to make a difference if you lose a DH race by. 05 seconds.”
Just common preconception and anger.

"Do you ride a SB+ bike?"
Sorry to deceive, I'm still on my good old 12x142 27.5 warden C because it is well enough, but from an engineering standpoint, despite all your belief, 157+ make a lot of sense.
  • 2 0
 @monkeybizz:
I know, I know, I'm a troll hunter myself...
Great for vorticity reduction !
Thumbs up laminar flow !
  • 2 1
 @gnaralized: As soon as you said CATIA, i knew you know what you're talking about. That's some seriously powerful software. Whatever you work on must be pretty complex haha. I do believe as much as 157 sucks that the fatigue life of rear ends is increased meaning we can all own our bikes longer Smile (I also ride a warden C hooray!)
  • 1 0
 @monkeybizz:
Not as much as new bike standards, obviously Smile )
  • 2 2
 Me: You don't acknowledge that bike companies did this for their own reasons and not customers."


Gnarilized: "Devinci, Pivot, Mondraker, Knolly.
All engineering and rider oriented companies, with lifetime waranties on their frame..."

Yeah, I imagine the lifetime warranty had something to do with the decision to go to 157 on trail bikes. Again, it's nearly an exact parallel as when bmx companies with lifetime warranties were making 40-45 pound bmx bikes cause they couldn't make bikes strong and light and they didn't want to deal with warranties.

I'm not saying there is no place for 157+ trail bikes. Some riders main priority is strength and they will sacrifice other things for that. But by the same token there should be progressive companies who are actually trying to make bikes narrower(back to 135 hopefully someday), because it's a handling advantage to have a narrower rear triangle that isn't contacting your heels all the time. Nobody in their right mind is going to argue that having a super wide rear triangle is going to help bike handling.

If you really want the sport to progress you can't just focus on strength. I think part of the reason manufacturers thought they could get away with this is because 157 is the macho dh standard, so all the aggressive riders will respect it. No, we're not all that dumb, there are other factors. I think some of the bmx companies actually thought the same thing 20 years ago justifying the heavy bikes, and there were actually a few guys that thought they liked the heavy bikes. But the sport evolved and now they all want light bikes.
  • 20 0
 Looks like it will desTROY some descents, even in hearing aid brown
  • 5 0
 Hearing aid brown Smile coffee: meet keyboard
  • 18 0
 That shade of beige will go lovely with my slippers.
  • 2 6
flag WalrusRider (Sep 30, 2020 at 7:24) (Below Threshold)
 The full carbon frame paint looks hideous.
  • 13 0
 Beautifull bike ! it's got it all and the price is good. Props to @cyclesdevinci for answering the tough question (aka hate comments) form PB commenters ! haha Good job les boys de Chicoutimi beach !
  • 8 2
 Merci pour les bons mots !
  • 13 1
 @chaynech1: im also sad there are no longer 27.5 troys, I love my 2020 troy in 27.5 and i would've bought a 2021 if they made it in 27.5. I've tried 29er and I felt they were all too big for me (5'8, 130 lbs). Lets hope they add 27.5 bikes back in their lineup again, maybe at least for the small/medium frames.
  • 2 0
 Totally. I felt like the 29er was taking me for a ride, and I wasn't really riding it if that makes sense. I am not a point and shoot kind of rider, I like to hop around and have fun on the trail and the 27.5 spartan is so fun for that.
  • 1 1
 Agreed, 27.5 for small and med bikes is a must = 27.5 wheels are lighter, stronger and allow for a more nimble bike in tech section and to pop off drops. I understand SKU reduction but the benefit is only for @cyclesdevinci...Going all in with 29 is a mistake
  • 2 0
 Dont leave out us tall people!
  • 11 0
 That's a nice looking rig and some good numbers there. Really nice to see the XL frames get decently login chainstays for a change.

Is there a devinci importer for the uk though? Had a quick Google and I can't see any devinci bikes for sale here.
  • 6 0
 Came here to say the same thing. Glad to see the chainstay length grow with the large and XL.
  • 15 4
 I love devinci bikes but am a bit sad they have left 27.5 & 148 behind.

I know many DW designs have gone 157 and probably with good reason but for the average consumer 148 is probably going to be more popular.

Have to question the logic of putting being "right" in front of selling bikes.

Just give the ews team a 157 rear spaces triangle and sell a boost bike to the masses?
  • 9 1
 Totally. Very disappointed in no more 27.5 in the line. Have had a couple Devinci's and currently have a 2019 spartan. Tried a Troy and spartan 29 and wasn't as fun at my height. I still think there is a place for them as most other brands offer 27.5
  • 7 4
 Why wouldn't "the masses" want the stronger, stiffer rear end?

And you can't talk about constantly swapping wheels, because "the masses" don't do that. They buy a bike, they replace broken stuff with things that fit, they get a new bike in 3-5, or 15, years.

148 isn't "more popular" because people are cross-shopping and picking a bike just because it isn't 157. There are simply more of them out there with 148. Same thing happened when 148 first arrived. By count, 142/135 would have been "more popular", because it was on _all_ of the existing bikes ('cept 150 on DH bikes, but that's small numbers)
  • 4 1
 @chaynech1: this! Altought I'm 5.9 and ride medium frame I can't even do proper bunnyhop or manual on 29" ????. I love my Troy 2018 with 425 cs and thinking about experimenting with mini mullet and slap there a 26" rear wheel. I Guess I'm weird ????.
  • 1 0
 @just6979: Because I've ripped 2 derailleurs off in the past 4 months and don't want it sticking any further out. That's just not a good tradeoff at all. If we all go gearbox (which needs to happen on ebikes at least) then I'm all game to have a rear end I hit my heels on.
  • 1 0
 @coletrane-mtb: Maybe you'll have better luck by going back to 125mm ancient road bike hubs then
  • 4 1
 @just6979: I bet the number people not buying a devinci because of superboost far outweighs any actively seeking superboost.

That's why I question the logic if you're a bike brand trying to sell bikes.
  • 3 1
 @random-gravity-checks: no one said people are actively looking for 157 hubs. I said if it was offered, why wouldn't you take it? Heel rub might be an issue for some folks, but that's been an issue forever, and again, we're not stuck on 125mm hubs because of it. Smart designs minimize it, and people have learned to deal with it (aka not really care much)
  • 1 0
 I don't have ANY issues with heel rub on my SB Knolly Warden LT but I had before on my boost bike... Devinci said that the 2021 troy has the same clearance that it had on older boost Troy so probably be fine! And maybe even better if they hadn't considered the larger SB crank....

I don't have any interest in their complete bikes and no more aluminium frame only option so I'll still wait for the carbon/alu frame only price in case of.... only because they are SuperBoost! I was looking at a Norco Sight, Commencal Meta TR or Meta AM aluminium frame only but after reading so much comments about noodle 29er wheels, I really wanted a SB bike if going 29er so happy about this new option!
  • 1 0
 @Timo82: Frame-only is such an uneconomical; choice. Just get the lowest trim for like $1000 more, sell the parts as take-offs and you've easily made back that $1000 and most likely your time to do the selling (unless maybe the lowest trim is like a Judy Silver or something... that might be harder to sell)
  • 1 0
 @just6979: It depends of the price and builds! Norco sight aluminium at 2100 cad with a shock I like is a much better deal than having to try to sell everything. If I have a fork and shock I would like, yes then I would buy it complete because those are expensive to buy aftermarket but if I have to sell everything except the frame, it is not a good idea. The trouble to sell everything and if you do, probably ends up at the same price than frame only or if lucky, like 2-300 less? Not worth the hassle if you ask me! lol If I REALLY want a bike but they don't sell frame only, that might be a good idea. I would have to demo a Troy before doing this because I am not 100% sure about that seattube angle.

Also depends of colorway...Meta polished frame is only available as a frame. 2021 Sight is super nice in black but in 2020 I would have buy a complete bike as they were way nicer!

I am on my third custom build and going on my fourth if selling my bike for a new 29er and I have done a lot of maths before doing it... haha
  • 1 0
 @Timo82: Cheapest Troy is $2800. If you have all the parts, which you must if you're looking for frame only, then you can easily make back $700 with just the fork, wheels, drivetrain (brand new Deore 12sp will go quick!)
  • 15 4
 Really disappointed that another brand went all 29er. I still think there is a place for 27.5. Even if you did it on the small and medium like some brands. My spartan 27.5 is nice and playful and I found the 29er was a point and shoot kinda bike. Still fun but I have more fun on the smaller wheels.
  • 9 0
 Beautiful bike. However, I'll never understand this beige color. I have never ever heard someone saying "Beige is my favourite colour!"
  • 22 0
 It's Landlord Tan, or if you prefer, Artificial Limb Flesh.
  • 4 2
 It looks good on certain things. Like, Toyota Tacomas and 4Runners. That's what I assume all the bike companies putting out beige frames are going for. But I agree, it just sort of ends up looking boring on bikes.
  • 1 0
 @k1creeker: landlord tan, hahaha!
  • 2 0
 I used to really hate that color on cars, until I started driving my black jeep on dirt roads all the time. That beige will hide trail dust way better, giving your bike a "cleaner" look than you get with dark colors. Though that color is popping up everywhere, so I'm guessing it is also the color for all the "cool kids" this year.
  • 8 0
 @atourgates: We do like that color on trucks as well as on our bikes. We have to admit it is a lot more challenging to properly represent that color on photos. From the feedback we have gathered from people seeing it in person, it does look really good on a bike.

But we understand everyone has their own taste and preferences, this is why we do offer 5 colors throughout the Troy lineup.
  • 2 0
 @pakleni I've seen this bike in person. The color really does not have the same look / feel in photos. I feel most will like it when they see it in real life as well.
  • 8 0
 It’s weird..... Devinci and Kona get roasted for this colour but when Santa Cruz does it everyone raves about it
  • 1 0
 @cyclesdevinci: You guys going to get the paint colours right this time? Last year I ordered an NX build with the natural metal colour. Apparently the frames got painted the wrong colour and I ended up with a grey bike. Despite being slightly bummed on the colour I absolutely love the bike!
  • 10 0
 Threaded bb o hell yes! I needed this pick me up after last night’s debate
  • 4 0
 Unfortunately they ran out of time before getting to tackle the tough issues - boost or superboost ?
  • 2 0
 @onemind123: I cared about that until I remembered that every bike I’ve bought has had enough different tech to not be cross compatible. 7point iron horse, fat bike, remedy, scalpel. And enough years apart that I wanted new anyway! Then I found out that @knollybikes 157 rear triangle was narrower than my 142mm canfield riot outside of frame to outside and realized forums complain about nothing!

Bb is real though. That’s some serious bullshit to not thread it. In the name of simplifying service for a vehicle that is only used off road it’s the right choice
  • 1 0
 @usedbikestuff: Wow, really??? Maybe that's why I never had any heel rub on my Warden LT!! I had on my previous boost bike...

Yeah you're right, they always complain about everything without even having riding it!
  • 2 0
 @Timo82: I just want a Knolly. Have since V-tach
  • 1 0
 @usedbikestuff: Loved my Vtachs - had a first run model w a 73mm BB and 150mm rear as well as a later model 83mm BB and 150 rear. Never experienced heel rub issues with either.
  • 1 0
 @usedbikestuff: Well, let me tell you the 2020 warden/delirium is really insane! I don't know for pure DH all year long but anyway for my kind of riding, it is! It pedals better than my 2 previous bikes which had 150mm of rear travel! So much better position than the old Warden (or any other Knolly in fact) when seated! Now you can switch from 160, 167 or 175mm of travel only by changing the stroke of your shock!
  • 1 0
 @Timo82: I need a steeper hta for Midwest staircase hucks
  • 9 0
 $5300 CAD for a carbon front/ AL rear with fox suspension, GX drive train and code r brakes is not too shabby compared to other brands offerings at that price point.
  • 1 0
 I was thinking the base with bike shop 12 month same as cash would only be 210 a month with 500 down. All that Deore stuff is killer. Seems like someone is putting the used market out of bussiness.
  • 1 0
 Yeah but I really, REALLY would have liked the same bike with Deore, SLX or XT drivetrain OR Rockshox suspension!! I really prefer Rockshox over Fox and Shimano over Sram. I get it that they will nearly always be Fox OR Sram bikes but even the Shimano equipped bikes have Fox Suspension, damn it! Frown I would have to change nearly everything except the frame... and no more aluminium only frame option! Frown
  • 1 0
 @Timo82: The $2800 model has it.
  • 1 0
 @shotouthoods: Yeah I know but not burly enough for me...should have said it! No revelation or pike for me, lyrik or maybe even a zeb. Lyrik is perfect for me but wouldn't say no if a zeb would be on my bike anyway. Wink
  • 10 2
 Slack seattube comments loading
  • 4 1
 The two absolute musts for me on my next bike are a seat tube where the true and effective angles are as close as possible and as short a seat tube as possible to allow for a long dropper.

It just makes no sense to me to buy a bike where if my legs are 3" longer than the leg length the bike was designed around my seat angle might now be 72 degrees instead of 77 degrees.

I'm sure there are important suspension packaging issues that make this necessary, but personally I'd choose a bike with a different suspension layout.
  • 3 0
 I'm just happy to not be disappointed by the super boost triggering
  • 2 0
 @Woody25: unfortunately the issue is mainly concerning contact between the rear wheel and seat/ seat tube at anything above 80mm travel. I hear ya, it’s annoying and in a perfect world should be adjusted on each size bike. But I’m afraid that different layout would pretty much have to be 80mm travel or 500mm stays.
There are obviously designs that’re better than others though and some manage to keep the actual and effective angles closer to one another. You may then find there’s another issue with a short cockpit when seated and long when stood.
You literally go around in circles with bicycle geometry.
  • 1 0
 @ProperPushIrons: you're absolutely right, it's one of the reasons I've been sticking with 27.5" wheels
  • 4 0
 The aluminum GX build looks like a real winner. Interesting that it weighs the same as the carbon front triangle build....are Fox Suspenders that much burlier? Anyway, looks like another viable option for sure, always dug the Troy. Pour one out for the 27.5ers.
  • 4 0
 Came here to post this. I'm totally cool spending $1000 less to save 0.1lbs but was curious where the weight difference lies. My biggest qualm is that there isn't a more equivalent Shimano build to the GX. Regardless, there's a strong chance I'll be on the aluminum gx in red next year.
  • 6 1
 Devinci ticks every box. Stiff and strong with amazing ride feel, super boost is the way it should have been from the start, good tire spec, bottle cage, threaded bb. Devinci has it all figured out.
  • 7 1
 I'm bummed that its 29 only. I was hoping to buy a 27.5 Troy this year. Who knows what I'll do now...
  • 2 1
 Mullet and done.
  • 1 0
 170 fork upfront
wide rims over 35mm and 26 tires
short cranks

It's worth to try Smile
  • 5 1
 Bike looks sick. Build is solid. Sounds like the suspension design is decently progressive if it works well with air and coil. This seems like it will be a hard charging bike. I look forward to demoing one.
  • 4 0
 @cyclesdevinci www.devinci.com/en/warranty-devinci The exclusions to this warranty seem fairly excessive. Are your frames not covered if a consumer builds their own bike?
  • 2 1
 @cyclesdevinci This exclusion is why I will not buy something you design/manufacture: "Damages caused by normal wear and tear including damages caused by material fatigue."
  • 8 0
 @downcountry: We have to agree, some of the language here might be a little dated. We will clearly bring it up internally to have that revised. To answer @Smokee9000 as well, that one is simply to ensure the bike has been properly assembled by an authorized Devinci dealer. For insurance purposes, and simply to make sure it's been built adequately.

At the end of the day, we make durable products and we stand behind them. If a frame would suffer from a manufacturing defect, we take care of it.
  • 2 0
 @cyclesdevinci: Understood and thank you for taking ownership of this issue and addressing it with your internal team. I think a few of us have been 'burned' by exclusions and although something like the frame insert for pivot bearings loosening due to fatigue would not be considered a mfg defect, it is something I would expect the manufacturer to take responsibility for. thanks again!
  • 1 0
 @cyclesdevinci: Yeah but the dropper post thing is a real joke..... And if we want to build from a frame only (you said that you'll have them) we have to bring it to the shop so they do the job instead of us?!
  • 1 0
 @Timo82: Just saying, no one will never know that the bike shop didn't built your bike if you don't tell the company.. and dropper wise, I think it just makes sense! Just imagine someone putting a 210mm dropper post on a XS frame where the minimal insertion of the dropper is longer than the maximum insertion of the frame! Don't worry about putting AEM parts on your bike as long as you use common sense and don't put something that shouldn't be there in the first place (fitting or standards wise) and I'm sure you frame will be cover!

Companies cover themselves because there are always people abusing and doing things that don't make sense and try to profit of the company.
  • 1 0
 @DHeb: Yeah I know they are often asking that lbs take care of our bikes but dropper post, come on, I never saw someone else asking that!! I would put a OneUp or Revive dropper but would have to keep the OEM one just in case, instead of selling it...

If doing that, I don't think it would be a problem but I think you're wrong for the bike shop... That's the easiest thing for Devinci to ask for, a receipt! Or even ask directly to the bike shop so no chance there! Probably 200+ to build a bike in a bike shop?! So I'll have to add that to the frame price and they won't offer the cheapest alumiium one so pretty sure I'll stick with the two other options I had before... Commencal Meta or the super cheap Norco Sight!
  • 1 0
 @Timo82: I think you didn't get what I wrote, maybe you should read it again.
  • 2 0
 @DHeb: What did I miss? I think the opposite of you...dropper easy, building a frame not easy. If you're talking about the AEM parts then yeah, maybe it would be okay but maybe not. If building a 7000$ bike, I want to be sure about the warranty as I broke my 2 last frames! Anyway like I said, I don't care about the dropper post, the ''must go to a devinci dealer to build it up and everything else'' not so much!
  • 1 0
 @Timo82: "Just saying, no one will never know that the bike shop didn't built your bike if you don't tell the company."

First sentence, that's exactly what you missed. No one will never know if you did get your bike build in a shop or not, so just tell you did!
  • 1 0
 @DHeb: And I DID answer you about that....they will ask for the invoice, not only ask you if you did go to a Devinci dealer. lol
  • 1 0
 @Timo82: They will ask for an invoice of the frame!
  • 1 0
 @Timo82: Look, I probably know how bike companies warranty work better than most people here, including you and I’m just trying to help you understand how it really works, but you have to help yourself and read between the lines.
  • 1 0
 @DHeb: Ok!
  • 1 0
 @cyclesdevinci: I have had two Devinci's and my wife has a Devinci troy. I always have promoted Devinci bikes to friends, but have been really disappointment with my wife's troy. We even reached out to the area rep in North Vancouver over the phone and we couldn't get any help. We bought the bike through an authorized dealer and somehow the bike shop built it up with a 142 rear end on a 148 boost hub (I think they took a wheelset off of a spartan). When we asked them to fix it they just accused us of switching the wheels after purchase. So now we had to go out and buy a new rear wheel, hub etc. Because they mounted that wheel on it the rotor was bent, the caliper bolt is stripped as it was pulling on that, and who knows what damage it did to the frame and rear triangle (It seems to eat bearings). I get that @cyclesdevinci is not totally on the hook for this, but this bike shop should not be selling their products. Now we have a bad taste for the brand. Disappointed.
  • 3 0
 Looks like the deore 12s is totally worth the extra $100cad over the trance x. What's even more impressive is they didn't cheat with a Sunrace cassette etc so you don't get microspline like some brands. I've stayed away from Super Boost because I have bad heal rub on most bikes and reviewers always say it's worse. However, if I can demo this beast I will see if what they're saying about clearance is true.
  • 1 2
 I would not get the Trance X 3 over this bike. I would, however, get the Polygon T8 or the Jeffsy 29 comp over this bike (if they are not sold out)
  • 8 0
 Riding it for the release video, I was pretty impressed with the 12s Shimano stuff! FWIW, heel rub was a complete non-issue for me on this bike even while wearing wide soled DH shoes
  • 2 0
 @kirkmcdowall: Thanks for the reply. I have "duck feet" and strangely jam my feet into the chainstays occcasionally so when I read about such issues it really stays with me. I'll definitely give this bike a close look, it looks like it addresses the minor issues I have with my current bike and is well priced.
  • 1 0
 @addisonchen: a lot of those deals disappear if you are Canadian. I tend to buy from companies with higher Canadian content as well, whenever prices are reasonably close.
  • 3 0
 @JayUpNorth: “stays with me” haha nice
  • 1 0
 @CircusMaximus: Get's stuck in my brain? Idk, that's just not the reason I want to have an epic crash.
  • 2 0
 @JayUpNorth: Chainstays* with you
  • 6 1
 not bad, looks way better than the previous generation. more tire clearance on the chainstays is always welcome
  • 5 2
 The Troy would be my next bike if your customer service wasn't so garbage. Neither reply to emails nor want to resolve a chainline issue on a brand new Devinci Wilson I had purchased which made the bike un-rideable.
  • 6 1
 After checking with our Customer Service team, they are sitting literally 10 feet away from me (a perk of a small business I guess), they are taking the issue seriously and our Alberta sales rep is addressing the problem as we speak. If this is not the right case, feel free to send us a DM and we will take care of it.

No, we can't answer all the warranty claims and questions here. Best way is the following:
1- Check with your local dealer. This is the best and fastest way to deal with warranty claims and any other questions you may have regarding your bike.
2- For other issues, contact us at service@devinci.com
*Please note that with Quebec regulation, we had to run on limited staff and this season has been crazy so they are doing the very best to catch up and answer as fast as they can new request.
  • 2 1
 @cyclesdevinci: The email was not related to the same issue (2 separate issues). Your Alberta sales rep did nothing to resolve the issue despite repeated and numerous attempts by my LBS.

My LBS had to take it upon themselves to re-assemble the rear triangle of a brand new Wilson from your factory (this was 7 months after it arrived in the shop, and unable to be ridden in that duration).

A new Alberta representative is probably the solution.
  • 4 0
 Sell me a bike without tires. That’s the least of my worry when I’m purchase a new bike. Couldn’t give a shit what tires it comes with. Or grips for that matter
  • 3 0
 Have to say I agree. Tires, grips and pedals are well used disposable bits IMO. I too don't care what rubber or grips the bike comes with. They will be changed to suite my preferences anyway.
  • 1 0
 For Greta & the children of the stolen future, this should be an option from all manufacturers. Although I know regulations would forbid this in many territories. tup
  • 1 0
 Love the geo. The fact that’s not exaggeratedly slacked and it’s wheelbase ain’t like a trains. For real I love the geo numbers.I don’t care for the super boost but I can’t get around those angular lines.It just doesn’t look good in my books and that’s why I’m not getting it. I know I know I’m
being superficial and looks do more than functionality but that’s me....
  • 2 1
 Kinda with you on the aesthetic but you should give super boost a chance man. Makes a lot of sense for gravity mtb. A lot more than boost did.
  • 1 0
 @ProperPushIrons: i agree with you . As I said I don’t care boost super boost non boost etc

Im waiting to test a Druid , a Hightower , à Salsa and waiting o the new Patrol and Bronson before I buy a new rig.
Presently I ride a Bronson V3 with Saints , big tires , good geo on bars and plastic wheels from Santa Cruz
  • 2 0
 @barbarosza: apologies! Misunderstood you
  • 5 0
 hey devinci , frame only available ?
  • 1 0
 yes
  • 1 0
 Thanks. @cyclesdevinci: I didn't see it on your website. What Colors ?
All black Carbon with that XT build. Ideal. Maybe a carbon wheel option.
  • 2 0
 @schlayer: The full carbon frames and the carbon/alu frame are available as framesets. So yes the all black frame will be available.
  • 4 0
 I like devinci bikes. My atlas was a great one! Does Devinci still make the aluminum frames in Canada?
  • 1 0
 The previous model troy was the first alloy full suspension they made overseas in a while, looking at their website it seems like one is manufactured overseas as well. I know they were talking about trying to get it back in house but I think that ship has sailed. I expect Canada's last true bike manufacturer to move almost all their production overseas within the next 5 years :'(
  • 1 1
 @thetruejb: Are the aluminum frames now made overseas as well?
  • 17 0
 That is a great question. We now have this section on our website that shows all the bike we still make in house, and each bike's ''frame'' spec description tell you where it is made: www.devinci.com/en/proudly-making-bikes-in-canada/100-made-in-canada

As we previously explained (when the Django came out last year), it has been hard for us to keep up with the increased demand for these products and we are currently completing the expansion of our factory. In the meantime certain high volumes bikes had to be outsourced and this 4th gen Troy is part of it.

BUT we are very stoked to have 3 new models 100% made in Canada that will be added to the lineup this year. Can't tell you all about it now, but @thetruejb to answer your question, nop, that ship has not sailed. We are still working hard to keep a good chunk of the prod here in Canada!

#Proudly Canadian
  • 2 0
 Phoquing awesome @cyclesdevinci:
  • 1 0
 First time posting on here. 2020 was my busiest year on the trails. I guess less time commuting and more time riding. How durable are new bikes such as these? Is that too subjective of a question? Thanks, these bikes look awesome.
  • 1 0
 With Greg riding the troy with what looked like a custom setup (38 up front) during the last two rounds, what's the targeted Enduro race setup? 2021 Spartan comes with 180mm 38 which is alot and Ltd Troy comes in 160mm 36, while it seems like most EWS racers are going for 170mm...
  • 1 0
 would it be better to bump up the troy to 170 or bump down the spartan to 170? For those looking for the best all around Enduro setup.
  • 2 0
 Sized chainstay length is good for consumers, but the lengths are still too short. Could just do a 2 or 3 position flip chip 435,450,465mm

Article says bb height changes by 3mm but geo chart says it varies by 7mm, dafuk?
  • 1 0
 I badly want a Troy or Spartan, but have ridden both and I am firmly in between the travel of both. Love the operation of Split Pivot and the geometry and overall layout of both bikes, but I really enjoy 155-160 mil rear travel.
Spartan was Papa Bear and Troy was Baby Bear on every one I've ridden.

The shop in Asheville now "selling" Devinci has zero interest in getting @cyclesdevinci bikes into their shop anyway. Can't believe I live here and we don't have a Devinci dealer any more.
  • 1 0
 Glad to see another comment thread about room for wide tires that completely overlooks the fact that it is chainline and chainring size that dictate this, NOT whether the hub itself is boost or super boost. Anyone who has played around with different chainring offset knows there’s some flexibility there.
  • 1 0
 @cyclesdevinci can you explain why you chose to go with the Raceface Vault hubs on the LTD version? I have some friends riding 2019 Spartans and these hubs have been nothing but a constant problem needing warranty replacement. Has the issue been resolved? At this point I'd have serious hesitation in running this hub based on the track record that I've seen. Overall great looking bike! Its definitely on my short list when I'll be shopping for a new rig after next season.
  • 1 0
 Does anyone else think that shock mount gusset looks unnecessary? Im not an engineer but i reckon you could have saved more weight with a standard mounting Style. OR they could have fit a longer eye to eye shock on there for more consistent performance under heavy descending. Its also kinda ugly, sorry guys.
  • 2 0
 I just preordered the sand Carbon GX build from my closest Devinci dealer. This will make my 3rd Troy in a row! They say it could take until March for me to get it, hopefully it won’t take that long.
  • 1 0
 Honestly dude, my 2016 Carbon is the best all round bike I have ever had. I swapped the Pike 150 to a Lyrik 160 and here we are 4 years on. It's done park, epic rides, the Alps, BC & she loves it here in Wales. Still my go to ride. tup
  • 1 0
 @Dropthedebt: I had the 2016 carbon RR and I shredded everything you can imagine on that thing, the only reason I got rid of it was because it was a size too small for me. Devinci makes great bikes
  • 1 0
 27.5 for small and med bikes is a must = 27.5 wheels are lighter, stronger and allow for a more nimble bike in tech section and to pop off drops. I understand SKU reduction but the benefit is only for @cyclesdevinci...Going all in with 29 is a mistake
  • 4 2
 Why would your race this over the Spartan at an EWS? Old Paul Aston has his enduro bike set at more travel than most DH bikes.
  • 14 0
 Less is more in some situations
  • 3 0
 The average EWS racer simply doesn’t need that much travel for the types of stages they race. They make more time up in the flats and uphills where maintaining speed is easier on a livelier bike.
  • 27 0
 Greg Callaghan recently raced the Troy at the last 2 Italian EWS races. He had the choice to race the Troy or the Spartan, the decision was entirely his. He felt like the Troy was faster for the many flat and physical bits and felt more nimble for all the tight and janky turns of the Italian courses. The Troy is a weapon!
  • 5 0
 I've raced enduros on the east coast for the last year and change and with one or two exception, a 140 mm bike with better pedaling, a bit less weight and better maneuverability is the better call. You'd probably want the Spartan in Whistler, but it seems like a tight, pedally course like Ligure, with massive transfer sections would play better to something like a Troy.
  • 2 0
 To clarify, I'm not critising, I'm asking a question. I've never raced an Enduro, but the EWS coverage I see looks so knarly I'd want a full downhill bike with PEDs to help pedal to the top.
  • 3 0
 @UniorDevinciFactoryRacing: Did he ride his Troy with a 185x55 shock??? That's the real question we all want to know... Wink
  • 1 0
 One thing that I have see in some other bikes with pivots like this is there are two moving parts of the frame that get mud and dirt in them while ridding. As the suspension moves it literally wears itself down.
  • 1 0
 Hasn't been an issue with my spartan at all...those points seem to stay very clean. But then I do strip down the frame completely and service bearings and pivot points every few months...good to do that with any bike.
  • 8 0
 We design the bikes with as little interface as needed to have great riding characteristics but prevent premature wear and we use double row/double lip sealed bearings to increase longevity. Like @Phazz470 said, it is not impossible to experience wear but with adequate care, it should not be a concern with our bikes.
  • 2 2
 "Routing is internal, with wide ports to hopefully make maintenance easy."

Does that mean it isn't tubes-in-tubes? Then hard no. You'll need wide ports to make room to shove in some foam tubes to keep things quiet. That's not easier maintenance.

And how about that 6 inch internal bit on the brake side chainstay? That's just silly. Without that, you might have been able to remove the brakes without cutting the cable, since the banjo/end-piece might fit through those wide ports in the front triangle, but no way it's fitting through those tiny holes in the chainstay. So definitely not easier maintenance there either.
  • 1 1
 "the shock hardware unit does double-duty as a cable guide that keeps them in check between the front and rear triangles"

Why not just have the cable exit the downtube a couple inches further back? Seems silly to have the cables clamped by the exit port and then clamped again a couple inches later by this shock mount thingy.
  • 3 0
 Hooray for chain stays that increase as size increases! This is the future all bikes should have size specific CS length.
  • 1 0
 @cyclesdevinci How am I suppose to buy bike, www.devinci.com have list of dealers however any redirect to the dealer website does not show any of the Devinci model available, Scott and others

Buyer from the Los Angeles, CA
  • 3 0
 We just updated to a new website and we have to fix a few things regarding the updated dealer locator. Jenson USA would be a great option. If their retail store is not close enough, they also have an amazing online service. They should have them in stock shortly (and on their website very soon). Feel free to reach out to them for more details on availability.
  • 1 0
 @cyclesdevinci: Thank you! appreciate quick reply!
  • 1 0
 @cyclesdevinci: Also does ALU bike have internal routing as well as carbon?
  • 1 0
 Love my 2020 Troy, this 2021 is perfection, all sorted...pumped...I could give a shit about the tires and the colors, been riding mine like a stud here in Arkansas. Too many whiners on PB, please stop.
  • 2 2
 Is that kink in the seat tube really necessary? The effective number claimed would be awesome, but for us tall riders it will end catastrophically slack. It's great that you are now doing size specific chainstays!
  • 3 0
 I swear the troy is new almost every year
  • 1 0
 @cyclesdevinci Where can I buy this bike in Australia? Your website does not list any dealers in Australia which is strange. Smile
  • 1 0
 Compared to allot of bikes in this category, switchblade, ripmo. I almost feel like a 6 foot rider could be fine on a medium.
  • 1 0
 love this thing, but is a carbon rear triangle really worth a $1000 premium over aluminum? i don't see any other differences between the Carbon GX and the Hybrid GX
  • 6 3
 Looks like a ransom
  • 2 2
 Nailed it.
  • 2 0
 Will the AL frame be available for sale? If so, how much?
  • 1 0
 Aluminum are full bikes only at this time.
  • 1 0
 @cyclesdevinci: I hope when the new Spartan comes out (with new aggressive geo) it's still offered as an aluminum frame only option. I don't need the whole bike or a fancy carbon frame to hammer at Sliver Star bike park. Also don't need the heft and race only feel of the Wilson. Hence my Meta 29 purchase and park build this round.

Aluminum 180/170mm Spartan with 63 HA, 78 SA and 490 reach... you will have my attention. No baby blue! Just let that color die already. Lol
  • 3 0
 Nice steep seat tubes
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer Here's another Weagle bike with SuperBoost... Did you ever find any solid link on this?
  • 3 0
 Mullets please!
  • 2 0
 this being super boost makes my next bike purchase a little easier.
  • 1 0
 Same for me! Was looking at Norco Sight and Commencal Meta but both having 29er noodle wheels, I am more than happy to see a Superboost 29er all mountain bike in my range!!! Wink
  • 2 0
 sounds like a fun climber... lol
  • 1 0
 What a beauty!
Are the metal frames welded in Canada?
The gx aluminum is sweet and priced right!
  • 2 0
 @cyclesdevinci that's a beaut clark!
  • 2 3
 I thought Trek had a patent on the rear axle being a pivot point in the rear suspension. Did that expire or am I missing something here?
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: Interesting, I had no idea that leverage ratios were part of the way the patents were written up. Also 2013, seems I've been out of the loop for a while...
  • 10 10
 beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder but you`d need a few strong ones to find that bike pleasing to the eye.
  • 2 10
flag NateMob (Sep 30, 2020 at 7:17) (Below Threshold)
 This new Troy has taken the FUGLY Title from Eminent Cycles.
  • 10 1
 I find it to be a beauty...as I'm sure others do too.
  • 4 1
 @Phazz470: I agree and think this new frame looks great. I don't like the paint color though.
  • 1 0
 @WalrusRider: I actually don't mind the paint colors too much. I do like the colors of the carbon/aluminum rear triangle and all aluminum versions better though (black and red). The all carbon beige and purplish colors will make it harder to throw on the bling colors on there, such as blue hubs.
  • 3 0
 @NateMob:

Big Nate I don't think anyone can take that from Eminent. I feel kind of bad for them, especially seeing their bikes deeply discounted. Can't imagine they'll survive.

Anyways I'm not a huge fan of the desert sand color but actually dig the combination of curvy and industrial on this. I had a quick demo on the (now old) Troy29 and didn't jive with it, but this looks like a solid update.
  • 2 2
 Just call it all-mountain already. I still remember the time that a 120mm/130mm 29er was considered a trail bike.
  • 2 1
 Pick a hub spacing and be a dick about it.
  • 2 0
 Love it!
  • 1 0
 So many nice new bikes out there, so little in stock...
  • 1 0
 These will be in shops at the end of October, but you are right they are not likely to stay available for long... crazy year (and year to come!?)
  • 1 0
 @cyclesdevinci: hope to be on one in the spring!!!
  • 1 0
 But, but... it was just spotted in Finale Ligure! Smile Smile Smile
  • 1 0
 The colour-Karitane yellow!!!!
  • 1 1
 COMPÁ FA DAVVERO CAGAREEEE SOPO FOOOOCKEEEN SHIIIIIT
  • 1 0
 Frame only option?
  • 1 0
 no cap on the rear shock
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