@ak-77: Exactly, dig into your browser settings and turn autoplay off. Add-ons like Ad Block Plus and uBlock Origin help to eliminate the jank, but it doesn't fix the Outside corporate overlords trying to monetize your every click... yes I'm #old lmao
@suspended-flesh: gone are the days when web developers would take pride in their smart and efficient use of client resources eg the page's size being small.
@vr6ix: There is actually a setting in the Pinkbike profile to turn off autoplay. It doesn't turn off autoplay of course, that would be too obvious. Reading this comment I thought that the setting does turn off the sound, since I have it set to turn off autoplay and for me the videos always start muted. However, if I turn of "turn off autoplay" it still starts muted. Whatever...
I did this. That RFX36 looked so good on my bike. I gave it several rides and lots of different pressure and clicker settings. Overdamped and did not ride well. It was disappointing.
Except they're all gods. I have some of each plus manitou & now X-fusion. Even the X-f is baller. Chill. Having any of the mid-hi end stuff is next level
I see nothing special on ohlins, even after trying them, I’d rather have an Intend or push fork ( when it comes out ) These are for sure something superior at least in terms of quality and look
@Mtn-Goat-13: I had an x fusion fork ~10 yrs ago on a banshee spitfire and it was awesome. Forget the model. People would tell me to upgrade to a pike and I never understood why. It eventually developed a creaky CSU and the reps were really good at troubleshooting it with me but we never got the problem fully resolved. So I sold the complete bike to a homie for cheap and ended up with a pike lol. I still miss that fork though, it was great until it started creaking.
@Mtn-Goat-13: it was a joke...I am happy with my Z1 on the 160mm bike and even with a Suntour Auron I got for 100 Euros used on my 120mm bike. I used to ride the real enduro (two stroke engines and so on) back in the day, maybe that's where the desire for Öhlins comes from.
Serious question: Do people outside the US also refer to a single eating utinsel as "forks" (a plural noun even though there is only one object being referred to?) The use of the plural for this bike part seems common in other countries but I've never understood why.
I think it comes down to what kind of fork or forks people are talking about and what the common terminology is. I would never refer to the eating utensil as "forks", but I often refer to the bike part in the plural. I think its because in the case of the bike part it has two legs, so its become common to refer to those as the "forks".
Or pants? Pair of underwear? Around here we refer to the eating utensil as a fork. The things on the front of my bikes are a fork. Fork’s yes. As in my fork’s in need of a service.
Serts what I call desserts, Tray trays are entrees, I call sandwiches sammies, sandoozles, or Adam Sandlers, Air conditioners are cool blasterz, with a z. I dunno where that came from, I call cakes, big ol' cookies, All noodles, long ass rice, Fried chicken is fri fri chicky chick, Chicken parm is chicky chicky parm parm, Chicken cacciatore, chicky catch, I call eggs, pre birds, or future birds, Root beer is super water, Tortillas are bean blankies, And I call forks, food rakes.
@sino428: No way! It’s a fork. Like a “fork” in the road. From Latin furca, literally a stick that splits into two. If anything you could say that your dinnerware has multiple forks, but not the one on your bike.
@ndefeo96: All forms of birds are some derivative of a chicken: super-chicken (bald eagle), little chicken (sparrow type things), fast chickens (swallows), chicken eating chicken (hawks). The birders think this is hilarious in their refuse-to-make-eye-contact-or-smile kinda way.
@BiNARYBiKE: no, the dinnerware has four tines, so it's a fork. The thing on the front of your bike should be called a twok (pronounced tūk, or something fancy like that)
@gordonwatt: I hate it when people call Lego Legos. The plural of Lego is Lego. (I asked when I was at Legoland because it annoyed me so much when people get it wrong)
Pretty sure the correct American english (hah!) is fork (singular) for both the suspension and the eating utensil. Check Fox’s, Ohlins’ and Manitou’s website. The dc forks when used in the singular are all described as a downhill fork.
Colloquially… that is something different. If you get enough people saying the wrong thing then the whole language changes.
@rat-race-wheels: Off topic, are "Wisconsin people" referred to as:
- actual "Wisconsin" people due to no other reference word? - Wisconsinites? - Wisconsinians? - Wisconsonians? - Wisconsoners? - Wisconsolites? - Wisco is dead baby! (?) - Anythng ridiculously related to cheese?
I think it originally comes from moto, where each stanchion is literally a separate object like on a dual crown. Doesn't make a ton of sense when applied to a single crown, but rarely does English make sense or follow rules lol
@marshallthewolf: not sure how a single stanchion qualifies as a fork as there is no forking happening in a singular tube.
It's even stranger when people refer to them as the 'front forks' of their bike. I guess there was a time at the dawn of full suspension bikes where rear suspension looked like a fork but that really didn't last long enough to make it necessary to distinguish your fork as a 'front forks'.
@Dustfarter It is very un-american of you to try to impose correct grammar since no one can decide. Like to me east coasters almost have a uwu baby accent. I love it tho
@O1D4: There's only one fork: where the the steer tube reaches the CSU and forks into two stanchions. There are no other forks in the fork so it should only be called a fork. For forksake.
There may be no hope for those "front fork" people. Earlier in life they took the wrong fork and there's no going back. They are the Lefty's of the fork.
It IS a fork. And yet myself and probably a majority (maybe only a slim majority) of UK riders still say forks, as in "my forks are too soft". Even though I KNOW that's wrong. Hey ho.
@O1D4: based on my internet research, most forking seems to happen that way although there are some pretty vivid exceptions. Probably shouldn’t have googled forking in a singular tube at work however
@rat-race-wheels: Honestly it kind of bugs me when people refer to the crankset as the crank, but a crank is of course a crank. The real question is handlebar or handlebars. It really should be handlesbar, 2 grips one bar
Problem with setting forks by sag is how difficult it is to get consistent readings. It's hard to repeat the position on the bike in a way that the weight distribution is always identical. This is even worse on modern bikes with the fork far away in front of you at a slack angle
That advice is complete and utter bollox. sure maybe set a sag to begin with but after than it is pointless. It tells you nothing. Anyone that says have you got your sag set doesn't know how to set up suspension.
Sag means you're setting the whole fork spring based on how it behaves in the first ~15mm. Which on air forks/shocks is a totally different spring rate to the mid stroke.
I ignore sag and set midstroke by frequency. It works far better. Sometimes it gives a similar result to sag, other times very different.
Def not trolling ya but sag matters most for shock, not fork. Matters, yes but less than the shock, per gripes listed above. I refused this idea for a long time til I got schooled on it at a demo by a Rockshox tech. Dunked over & lesson learned
@Mtn-Goat-13: Sag is only a first step to get in range. It's not a goal. What makes it especially uselss is everyone measures sag in a different riding position. Rockshox techs are giving you the simplest and easiest to follow instructions, not the best instructions.
Sag is pretty alright for a quick sanity check when jumping on a new-to-you piece of suspension kit and you just want to get going, but getting hung up on one number can lead you to ignoring other factors. Suspension sits in a weird place between objective quantifiable facts and the rider's subjective experience with their personal preferences. Going by frequency addresses both.
@letsgethurt: I love Dougal's guides but find the 'natural frequency' approach allows for too much of my amatuer user error!
If I'm in a rush I tend to set up rear sag seated at 30%, then as a starting point, set the fork to the same sag with the bike on a slight downslope and put my full weight onto the bars, feet off the ground. Then I'll go for a bounce around pushing my whole bodyweight through the bike and check that front/rear are compressing a similar amount, usually ends up around 85% ish. Seems to work ok!
@Dougal-SC: Maybe that's because I'm wierd and complicated
I guess I could have just said that I'd have my coil spring calculated for me and then set up my fork so that it uses a similar % of travel when bouncing about in the car park...then fine tune on the trail.
Yeah, probably... I followed their recommendations for my Lyrik Ultimate depending on my weight... until I read few articles from Kazimer setting his Lyrik with a bit less PSI, one or no air token... I tried and I really prefered it... without finding bliss yet though. It's definitely not a perfect science, at least for me.
Nice video but only going half way. After you dialed in your fork, give your mates forks a good push in the parking lot before the next ride. If it feels stiffer - go and add at least 20 PSI because you sure aren't riding any slower that them aren't you!
Hey real question: do you guys set up your sag/air pressure at home before you drive to the trail head or only at the trail head? Maybe it’s because I’m in Phoenix and the temperature difference can be quite different but if I set my psi say at 115 psi at home when I get to the trail head it’s at like 130 psi. The elevation is not that much difference. Does anyone know why this changes?
Because pressure times volume is proportional to temperature. Since the volume in your shock/fork is constant when it is not moving (hopefully!), if temperature goes up then so does pressure. Same reason why tire pressures on cars are always specified as "cold pressures", because they go up when the tires heat up from driving.
Gonna guess that a place like Phoenix is the exception - most people don't have that big a swing in temps between their garage in the morning and the trailhead in the afternoon.
Temperature does indeed change air pressure for a closed container. It will also change during the ride on long, chunky trails as the fork warms up. It affects the shock more (higher pressure, smaller container, less airflow cooling)
Temperature upsets your tire pressure too. However, before you get OCD about the tires, consider that warm rubber can be more flexible, so although the pressure goes up, the rubber is softer.
That’s about a 13% change in pressure, so you would need a 13% change in absolute temperature to explain it with the ideal gas law. This would require a starting temperature of 44 F (280K) and an ending temp of 109F (316K). Pretty extreme temperature change but possible of it froze over night and you’re going somewhere hot. Much more possible with a smaller pressure change and an elevation change as well.
@GrantR: maybe my pressures were a little off, but it is definitely noticeable. And I am going from 72°F in my house where my bike is too between 110 and 120°. Yes, I ride when it’s that hot out and so does everybody in Phoenix. We are just used to it and that’s when the trails are the most empty of hikers/horses/etc. but not rattlesnakes.
@PHX77: With those temperatures that's like a 7-9% change in pressure by the ideal gas law. Definitely enough to make a fork go from feeling great to pretty harsh IMO. But if you know what the high temp and current temp are when you're pumping up the fork you can definitely under-pressurize to account for the temperature shift.
But holy shit how do you people go ride in those conditions....
The (potentially black) metal parts of a fork could get significantly hotter than the ambient (~110f) air temp, sitting out in the sun on a bike rack couldn't it? That's a serious question - I'm not enough of a materials scientist to claim to know that for sure. (Such as the road surface being much hotter than ambient.)
@number44: If bikes or parts are exposed to ambient air, they tend to shed heat accordingly. That would increase temp a bit, but probably not a huge factor. Bikes or parts sitting in a moving van or shipping container that's in the sun, now that would create a lot of heat buildup.
My mass (97kg) works out pretty good for the heavier spring on a Z1 Coil. Been having a blast with that fork on wet and rough trails, where it thrives. Tempting to get a Grip 2 and Smashpot for it, to calm the "activeness" and have a little more support for big hits, but there's something to be said for how simple the Grip 1 damper is to set up. Get rebound dialed and go.
@jlauteam1: In the right scenarios... smashing balls out thru chunk, and dialed to the right spot on the infinity lever to let the coil do its thing, I think the Grip1 does a fine job. At least for me, comps almost wide open (maybe 1/8 turn) with dialed rebound.
I log EVERYTHING every time I ride. I even put my shock/fork pump back on to check the loss after the ride. So I can compare it to the last ride. So I can compare it to the downtime in between rides. So I can compare all that to pumping up to normal psi, then disconnect/reconnect. It’s not OCD, it’s science. Right?
Nice job, a simple explanation of a complicated topic. I appreciate how practical this is.
One piece of important feedback. "Setup" as one word, as you have it in the title header on this page, is a noun. Your editorial staff should do 20 pushups immediately.
And if I were really going to quibble, I'd argue "forks" should be singular. That's a little bit of a judgement call though--it depends whether you're addressing me, the particular reader, or us, the collective readership.
When demonstrating the differences in rebound, she very obviously pushes and releases the fork for the "fast" setting while pushing and leaning on it for the "slow" setting. If you're ever trying to compare rebound with the push method, you MUST push AND release in the SAME way every time.
And just looking for the lack of bounce off the ground is a good way to end up with rebound too slow. Rule of thumb is that you want it as fast as possible without bouncing off the ground, although this is really only a baseline, because it's also hugely dependent on tires.
This video makes it seem like that fork's rebound setting doesn't have enough range to be noticeable if she had to lean on it to show "slow".
I run air springs, and once I establish sag, it’s time for psi bracketing.. Little incremental changes up and down. Once I find that psi, I leave it, unless my riding weight changes. I’ve been wondering what low speed compression is responsible for lately. There’s the obvious, but Christina gave me a missing piece with the giving a platform to load off of explanation. I learn something new with each of her videos. Simple, great tech!
My 2019 Pike looses up to 5 psi after heavy riding so i check the pressure before each ride. My setring was simple, put all the tokens and added 10% of suggested pressure
@matheas: I think @danctm is likely right here. You're sticking the pump back on and losing pressure at it equalizes between the fork and the pump. You should always expect to lose a few PSI when you put the pump back on (which is why you need to note the PSI before taking off the pump!)
@danctm: ^^^this guy gets it. 1 screw the nozzle halfway down to seal it. 2 pump your pump chamber and hose only to whatever psi you THINK the fork is at (air valve closed). 3 screw the nozzle all the way down to open, equalize system pressure, then check the reading. If the needle drops, that means the fork psi was lower than you thought.
@davidlockhead: good way to do it and I'll give it a try. But it really is just the crappy schrader valve, my digital pump absorbs like 2psi, and topeak gauge absorbs like 0psi, if you attach and deattach it 10times than maybe you'll lose 1psi. And I get 7-10 day differeneces 5+ psi usually.. would love to have a fork I could set and forget..
anyone else check shock PSI before every ride but not bother with the fork? Fork I can set and forget it but I cannot mentally do that with the shock. Not sure if I'm just OCD...pretty sure its OCD
@gabiusmaximus: I just found out when my daughter got home from work she would drive around the block because she thought if she didn't she would run over a kid behind the building. Sometimes she would do 4-5 laps. To say the least, I am concerned but I have been avoiding stepping on cracks and tap every beer keg I walk past so I think we are good.
Due to having a lower volume and higher pressure rear shocks lose air a bit faster than a fork does. All depending on the size and model you'll lose a few PSI a month with most rear air shocks.
For MTB suspension products, the seals and sealing surfaces are rarely manufactured perfectly and to the precision required for a "perfect" seal. Plus, air spring seals have a wear life.
Eventually, air will find its way out of these systems. Generally speaking, the seal head on the air spring inside a fork will over time hold air in the spring longer than the seal head inside a shock.
This is due to a multitude of factors, such as loading on the seal surfaces, operating pressures, operating pressure gradients, and operating temps all generally being greater inside a shock vs. a fork.
There is not usually a great difference in seal head surface area between common forks and shocks today, so the wear on air spring seals in a shock is generally faster than the wear on air spring seals inside a fork.
So it would follow that checking your air pressure in your shock more often than your fork would make sense. Your shock is more likely to lose some air on any given ride than your fork is.
Now, if it’s because of Texas weather that you’re not riding for a couple weeks, sure. But, if you’re riding multiple times a week, it might be time to talk to someone.
Who cares if its OCD? Seriously? It always amazes me how much other mountain bikers feel the need to judge minor, insignificant things people do. If you want to check it regularly and people judge you for it, f*ck them. Check that shit if you want to, it's better than getting to the top and realizing something is wrong.
As an aside, you will find during major temperature changes that your fork/shock lose/gain pressure enough to change the feel, so if you are riding one day and it's 45f out then you go again and ride and it's 70 the next day, you definitely need to check it and adjust it if you care about consistency at all.
OCD. I mean I'll ride back home from halway to work on a regular basis to make sure the coffee pot was turned off, but the last time I checked the PSI in my shock was...I can't remember
Don’t @ me but… Fork has a higher air volume than shock, that means it can lose a bit and you’re less likely to notice. Also it runs at a lower psi, so less likely to bleed air.
solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2015/10/why-we-need-a-speed-limit-for-the-internet
When I get a hire bike abroad: squish squish let's gooooooooooo
These are for sure something superior at least in terms of quality and look
I still miss that fork though, it was great until it started creaking.
I used to ride the real enduro (two stroke engines and so on) back in the day, maybe that's where the desire for Öhlins comes from.
(I asked when I was at Legoland because it annoyed me so much when people get it wrong)
Colloquially… that is something different. If you get enough people saying the wrong thing then the whole language changes.
Gullet trident over here!!
Apostrophes can be used for possession or contraction. @Someoldfart used the apostrophe to contract 'fork is' to fork's.
- actual "Wisconsin" people due to no other reference word?
- Wisconsinites?
- Wisconsinians?
- Wisconsonians?
- Wisconsoners?
- Wisconsolites?
- Wisco is dead baby! (?)
- Anythng ridiculously related to cheese?
IMHO you don't say "please pass me the forks at dinner". Similarly it is simply fork if you are talking about a single unit.
It's even stranger when people refer to them as the 'front forks' of their bike. I guess there was a time at the dawn of full suspension bikes where rear suspension looked like a fork but that really didn't last long enough to make it necessary to distinguish your fork as a 'front forks'.
But in a different context I might also say "I just bought a new fork for my Wilson last week".
The english language is confusing.
There may be no hope for those "front fork" people. Earlier in life they took the wrong fork and there's no going back. They are the Lefty's of the fork.
Probably shouldn’t have googled forking in a singular tube at work however
I'll take his advice over PB any day.
I ignore sag and set midstroke by frequency. It works far better. Sometimes it gives a similar result to sag, other times very different.
But looks like Dougal's already on it
Sag is pretty alright for a quick sanity check when jumping on a new-to-you piece of suspension kit and you just want to get going, but getting hung up on one number can lead you to ignoring other factors. Suspension sits in a weird place between objective quantifiable facts and the rider's subjective experience with their personal preferences. Going by frequency addresses both.
If I'm in a rush I tend to set up rear sag seated at 30%, then as a starting point, set the fork to the same sag with the bike on a slight downslope and put my full weight onto the bars, feet off the ground. Then I'll go for a bounce around pushing my whole bodyweight through the bike and check that front/rear are compressing a similar amount, usually ends up around 85% ish. Seems to work ok!
Natural frequency makes sure your bike is balanced front/rear and the midstrokes behave the same.
I guess I could have just said that I'd have my coil spring calculated for me and then set up my fork so that it uses a similar % of travel when bouncing about in the car park...then fine tune on the trail.
Tire pressure: squeeze tires with fingers
Brakes: squeeze brake levers.
Suspension: give shock and forks a push
Gonna guess that a place like Phoenix is the exception - most people don't have that big a swing in temps between their garage in the morning and the trailhead in the afternoon.
Temperature upsets your tire pressure too. However, before you get OCD about the tires, consider that warm rubber can be more flexible, so although the pressure goes up, the rubber is softer.
But holy shit how do you people go ride in those conditions....
Pv=nrT
I even put my shock/fork pump back on to check the loss after the ride. So I can compare it to the last ride. So I can compare it to the downtime in between rides. So I can compare all that to pumping up to normal psi, then disconnect/reconnect.
It’s not OCD, it’s science.
Right?
One piece of important feedback. "Setup" as one word, as you have it in the title header on this page, is a noun. Your editorial staff should do 20 pushups immediately.
You're welcome. Now I'm going riding.
And just looking for the lack of bounce off the ground is a good way to end up with rebound too slow. Rule of thumb is that you want it as fast as possible without bouncing off the ground, although this is really only a baseline, because it's also hugely dependent on tires.
This video makes it seem like that fork's rebound setting doesn't have enough range to be noticeable if she had to lean on it to show "slow".
I’ve been wondering what low speed compression is responsible for lately. There’s the obvious, but Christina gave me a missing piece with the giving a platform to load off of explanation.
I learn something new with each of her videos. Simple, great tech!
also vid had a very good description on low speed compression damping
\m/
www.shockcraft.co.nz/media/wysiwyg/shockcraft_1_page_suspension_setup_guide_v0.pdf
Görl. Gön. Börn. Lörn. Regörgitate. Mördr. The Möppet show.
Ræil those börms!
Nice stab at Fox & RS!
My online therapist recommended an EXT coil, which really seemed to help.
For MTB suspension products, the seals and sealing surfaces are rarely manufactured perfectly and to the precision required for a "perfect" seal. Plus, air spring seals have a wear life.
Eventually, air will find its way out of these systems. Generally speaking, the seal head on the air spring inside a fork will over time hold air in the spring longer than the seal head inside a shock.
This is due to a multitude of factors, such as loading on the seal surfaces, operating pressures, operating pressure gradients, and operating temps all generally being greater inside a shock vs. a fork.
There is not usually a great difference in seal head surface area between common forks and shocks today, so the wear on air spring seals in a shock is generally faster than the wear on air spring seals inside a fork.
So it would follow that checking your air pressure in your shock more often than your fork would make sense. Your shock is more likely to lose some air on any given ride than your fork is.
Source: I help run a suspension service company.
As an aside, you will find during major temperature changes that your fork/shock lose/gain pressure enough to change the feel, so if you are riding one day and it's 45f out then you go again and ride and it's 70 the next day, you definitely need to check it and adjust it if you care about consistency at all.