Video: Rider Flees Scene On Electric Motorcycle After Allegedly Hitting & Injuring Mountain Biker

Dec 14, 2021
by James Smurthwaite  
NSFW language, obviously.

A video posted on Reddit and other social media appears to show a rider fleeing the scene on an electric motorcycle after allegedly causing an accident that left a mountain biker seriously injured.

The video was taken in San Clemente this weekend. The video does not show the crash itself, but a man believed to be the victim has posted on social media that he was hit at 50mph by an electric motorcycle rider heading in the opposite direction. The video shows the victim lying on the floor surrounded by fellow riders while the other rider checks his bike over before riding away, leaving the victim on the ground. The injured rider later confirmed his jaw was broken in two places and, after surgery, he will have to have his jaw wired for 6 weeks.

It's worth noting that the alleged perpetrator's bike appears to be a Sur Ron "restricted use electric motorcycle" and not a pedal-assisted, speed limited eMTB. These bikes have far more power, no pedals, and are capable of much higher speeds than a trail legal eMTB. These kinds of bikes aren't legal to use on most mountain bike trail networks and have to be licensed and insured to be used on the road in many countries.

The rider said, “I was hit head on at the mtb trails from an electric motorcycle going 50mph . I have a broken jaw in 2 places, just got out of surgery, and have my jaw wired for 6 weeks. This is basically quiet motorcycle and not a pedal assist ebike and does not belong on the mtb trails and this is why! You also watch the rest of the how the incident was handled. This a big life change for for my last days of work before my Xmas vacation. Thank you to all my friends, family, and to the best dudes around the dog park mtb crew for listening and allowing me to vent and tell my story. #dogparkcrew”

We wish the injured rider a speedy recovery and hope he's able to ride again soon.

Posted In:
Industry News



329 Comments

  • 333 2
 Somebody knows this guy. Let's make sure he's accurately identified and held accountable.
  • 56 1
 Yep. It's a small world... especially that hood. Sure hope there's a reckoning for that stupidity.
  • 21 0
 Does anyone know if charges are being pressed? Numb Nuttz shows his face on trials again before justice catches up to him is calling the cops a viable option?
  • 141 1
 Bro. I’ve told that old f*ck many times to slow the f*ck down. That trail/uphill has a lot of exits of jump trials. He’s a local guy that rides that spot a lot. When I see him I’m going to get his info.
  • 32 0
 @Bangbrosbike: oooorrrrr. when you see him... World Star!!!
  • 27 44
flag digitalsoul (Dec 15, 2021 at 9:12) (Below Threshold)
 @ihatton929: This is California, you can basically commit any misdemeanor or low level felony and not be prosecuted. But the police are going to focus on a rogue ebiker, good one.
  • 10 0
 He was wrong to be riding that Moto there, he hurt someone, and rather than face his bad choices he fled. Pretty dang low. Healing vibes to the fellow who got hurt!
  • 44 0
 Gino Fortiani of Shoreline Plumbing is the Surron rider. I’m told that by a few locals here that know him and his shenanigans well.
  • 12 1
 @brihep: I wonder if it is Gino Fordiani at fordianiart.com/about There is a photo of a dude there...
  • 3 1
 @kpickrell: I think you got it. at least enough that the authorities should go talk to Gino...
  • 12 0
 @conoat: I’m told that he’s been in contact with the family and authorities. The original Facebook post by his mother is also closed to comments now so I think there has been some progress.

Either way, he probably won’t bring that piece of sh!t back to our local trails and hopefully nobody else does either.
  • 7 6
 @brihep: won't bring it back becuase hes in county getting to know Bubba and the bareback boys, hopefully.
  • 7 0
 @psyfi: he turned himself in
  • 3 0
 @digitalsoul: lol this is South OC buddy, they don’t put up with shit in those parts.
  • 1 0
 @brihep: where's the facebook post link?
  • 3 0
 @brihep: IF this is him, it sounds like it fits his character. I'll just leave this here. www.yelp.com/biz/shoreline-plumbing-costa-mesa-2?osq=shoreline+plumbing
  • 4 0
 @Bangbrosbike: he’s been identified. He’s Gino Fortiani and lives nearby. He’s almost hit me more than once by being a complete idiot on trails he has no business being on with a SurRon. I’ve been riding out there for 20 years and never had any issues other than this asshat. He needs a beat down.
  • 2 1
 He's gonna get some big charges. Shouldn't have had that thing there in the first place and he's gonna get charges for fleeing the scene of an accident which is a big oopsie. I would've grabbed that definitely not a dirt bike from that idiot as soon as possible.
  • 150 1
 If you're a Surron / e-Moto rider and you're reading this, know that you are not welcome at dog park (San Clemente). These kooks have been wrecking our trails for the last year. We have caught them multiple times riding up downhill trails, not only wrecking them but being a potential hazard for any bikers coming down. I'm surprised it's taken this long for an accident to happen. Beat it kooks!
  • 13 446
flag colonelcramhole (Dec 14, 2021 at 14:16) (Below Threshold)
 If you're a mountain biker / e-mountain biker and you're reading this, know that you are not welcome at dog park (San Clemente). These kooks have been wrecking our trails for the last year. We have caught them multiple times riding up and down trails, not only wrecking them but being a potential hazard for any hikers coming down. I'm surprised it's taken this long for an accident to happen. Beat it kooks!
  • 56 6
 @colonelcramhole: with out us mountain bikers and e mountian bikers there would be no trails to ride.
  • 22 161
flag colonelcramhole (Dec 14, 2021 at 15:19) (Below Threshold)
 @bikepark167: i made a dumb point about access in an unproductive way.

unfortunately there are no ohv areas in orange county so there's nowhere to ride these mini e-motos, so you get people riding them on crowded multi use trails. i don't personally condone it, but where are people gonna ride these things? they're crazy popular. its probably like the same struggle that mountain bikes went through.

most of these electric motos have been respectful on the trail, i've come across a handful and theyve all slowed down to pass. i'm not sure what dude this was thinking going that fast. atrocious behavior that resulted in an unnecessary accident.
  • 103 2
 @colonelcramhole: Long winded way of saying they spent all their money on the e-dirtbike and can't afford or don't care to drive out east where you can off road to your hearts content.

Considering the income of every one I know that has bikes like this, it's the laziness that is the barrier... Not the finances to gas up a trailer truck/van and drive out.
  • 4 21
flag waxed (Dec 14, 2021 at 18:42) (Below Threshold)
 @colonelcramhole: i think you make a good point bit like this www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPZDEWBzneY
  • 3 2
 Back in the day I’d see motos heading up the Silverado motorway in the Santa Ana’s. Used to p*ss me off.
  • 32 2
 @colonelcramhole: it’s called Ocotillo Well dip stick. You don’t purchase a produce you can use in you area legally. Why dafuq you think people in San Diego go on desert trips? It’s literally to go off roading and shoot guns.

You want to be able to use your moto anywhere in the state? Move to a state that has tornadoes as their natural disaster.
  • 124 1
 @colonelcramhole: "...but where are people gonna ride these things?" Not my f*cking problem, actually. A guy in Kansas doesn't buy a super yacht and then complain 'Where am I going to sail this?'. Should have sorted that out before he made the purchase, but here's a hint: ride them where it's legal to do so. Simple.
  • 7 0
 @waxed: na dude. not related
  • 74 40
 Ebikers in general are not welcome on mtb trails
  • 23 11
 @lx93: Not where In live and yes, there’s a huge difference between e bikes and E Motos.
  • 19 2
 SurRon's have a "pedal/chain" detachable kit, which is just a shady way of giving the guy in this video the audacity to do what he talks about in 3 minutes hyping himself up after multiple MTB confrontations in and then at around 6 minutes or so, he gets even MORE douchey and hypes himself up about multiple conflicts with people on greenways.

Minute 1 shows the stupid pedal kit:

youtu.be/vWoQYKza06E

Needless to say batteries are Pandora's Box. I used an analogy elsewhere that the barrier that keeps most gas powered motos and mopeds off trails is the noise and visual cues that they are motorized.
Electric powered motos and mopeds can hide in plain sight thanks to MTB parts & their quiet "engines".

The analogy was that you can park a Honda Z50 & a SurRon 100 yards away with both on, blindfold me and I can only find the Z50
  • 13 19
flag mtbrhtc (Dec 15, 2021 at 6:54) (Below Threshold)
 Damg, I am a fellow mountain biker and I ride sur rons and to see this happen is just stupid. I always tell myself if you are riding a sur Ron or anything but a mountain bike. You have to go slow and be respectful of the trail and the people. I am just shocked someone would do this.
  • 19 0
 @lepigpen: income of people with bikes like those? Half the scummiest people on benefits...in the UK we call them chavs are riding this shit around...sometimes doing 50mph on a public footpath..I had some tosser with past me at that speed from behind within a few feet...if I decided to step left as I was walking I would either have been paralysed or probably dead. It most certainly isn't only rich and responsible people riding these things...if anything it's the cheapskates over here that can't afford a car and don't want to register their e motos so they don't have to pay insurance either. They use them as personal transport aswell as digging about on them. They need to be banned period, just like they banned the gas mini scooters years ago.
  • 4 2
 @bitterrooter: it is in the fact that walkers dont like bikers until the trails are marked as "multi use" or "bike trail" at my local woods dog walkers or the like put logs and sticks on the trails even tho those trails where built by bikers and wouldnt exist without us.. but if i hit a walker/dog its still my fualt!! just a bit of perspective...
  • 6 1
 Sounds like it's time for "my life was threatened officer"
  • 14 0
 @mikealive: This. Society isn't obligated to accommodate every new invention.
  • 5 0
 @waxed: ya totally agree with you there. I didn’t think the skier snowboarder comparison was accurate. I wasn’t snowboarding or alive in 85 so I could be wrong but for the most part skiers and snowboarders coexist just fine. I don’t see full e motos ever being ok on multi use trails.
  • 16 1
 @mtbrhtc:
@mtbrhtc:

Translation: "When I ride my moto illegally putting others in danger I do so respectfully and try my best not to hurt anyone even though I am breaking the law."

Analogy: When I buy my firearm, I don't aim it at people, even though I am shooting in my neighborhood where people live and I know I could shoot someone. Instead of being safe, I choose to be reckless and hope for the best.

How about riding your Sur Ron where it's legal and then not have to worry about hitting non moto riders. Think past yourself.
  • 10 1
 @blowmyfuse: @blowmyfuse: Wow the guy in that Youtube video is a massive douche. Installs pedals on his e-motorcycle thinking it's going to be a loophole, gets indignant after being called out by someone else who has enough brain cells to notice that putting pedals on your e-motorcycle doesn't make it a bicycle.
  • 1 12
flag bigdawgmike (Dec 15, 2021 at 23:00) (Below Threshold)
 @lx93: Divisional comments like that are not welcome, irresponsible riders on soaking wet trails on any discipline of bike should not be damaging trails and if/when they do should be handed a shovel/made accountable.
Are you going to bias against heavier riders or lighter riders who aren't that smooth as well.
Correct your statement.
  • 2 12
flag bigdawgmike (Dec 15, 2021 at 23:25) (Below Threshold)
 @lx93: dickhead
  • 8 4
 @bigdawgmike: look at how many upvotes I have. Clearly I am not the only one here who don’t want ebikes on our delicate trails
  • 7 2
 @lx93: This isn't about bike types, bikes don't override a riders brain and tell them hit and run is ok.
This isn't about up votes or down votes either. Like-minded biased individuals tend to flock together.
This is about taking responsibility for you own actions which affect other trail users and the trails and about the morals and principles or lack thereof of the individual riding the bike.
  • 12 1
 @bigdawgmike: It sort of is about bike types. The line has been completely blurred between bicycle and motorcycle.
Mountain bike component manufacturers are making everything for electric mopeds and motorcycles now.
Mountain bike frame manufacturers aren't proud of the batterys on their mopeds. They're hiding them as much as they can in the frames.
Mountain bike frame manufacturers are making their trail bikes look almost identical to their electric mopeds.
Motorcycle manufacturers are making their motos with 80-90% mountain bike speced parts.

People who buy toys don't really care about trails, riders, rules....they just want to use their toy for as long as it entertains them.
  • 4 1
 @blowmyfuse: Thank you. I hate this.
  • 2 0
 I hate to be the one to point this out, but this amount of media coverage (Pinkbike!) is going to get the trails shut down.

I ride these and live 15mins away. I saw this posted on IG and I'm surpised it is on here. Have had 2-3x close calls in the last year with e-moto/e-bikes out there. This could have been any rider out there. My family old and young ride these trails often too. Hope the victim is okay and hope this doesn't lead to the trails getting torn down/closed... I already know it is on the State's mind...area belongs to the State beach park.
  • 1 2
 @blowmyfuse: Pedalec bikes have a place. Non courteous bikers on any bike type do not. Agreed ebikers shouldn't be riding assisted up trails but not all do. Let's drop the blanket bias.
  • 1 0
 @Apollok: seems it always depends on the voracity of the person accosted and their determination to find a permanent punishment for an offense.

Your zone may get lucky that it was someone on 2 wheels because if it's a hiker getting hit, all bets are off.
  • 4 0
 @lx93: Why? I still don't get the reasoning on that. A fast rider can still keep up with someone on an e-bike. Heck I even can. They aren't more of a risk like this thing. That thing is a dirt bike and there's no arguing that.
  • 2 1
 @Bobohunter1776: to some degree you are right...in teams of pure power output or Watts...yes a well trained athlete can put a hell of a lot more watts out in burst than an ebike and regular rider...however in terms of constant Watts no fast rider can keep up with an ebike unless the rider of the ebike is particular about going slow or is extremely unfit/unskilled. This was proven on EMBN when Nino Schurter went up against one of the guys on an ebike and lost. But yea ebikes are no more dangerous than regular bikes other than the overall weight is higher for a given rider. Their top speed is capped assisted and their peak watts is exceeded in bursts by people who are stronger and fitter.
  • 145 19
 Sadly, that's exactly how I envisioned e-bikes would change the sport. Those jerks are riding the cycle paths in the city here too and passing by people with kids without slowing down at 50-50kph. The police won't do anything to stop that and they're invading the whole cycle paths to the point where I'm not comfortable bringing my kid on those paths.

In a few years, when regular mtb ebikes will have just as much power as Sur-Rons, and won't be any different visually, this will be a huge shit show. Don't tell me that they are not the same thing, non mtbers won't see the difference and nobody will want to enforce the laws. People will always try to de-restrict their bikes and lame-ass companies will make ebikes without following the rules and installing fake pedals to make them "legal".

I effing have the ebike movement because no one and not a single bike company tried to reflect on those issues before flooding the market with those electric bikes. Stupid people won't follow the "no ebikes" signs and unfortunately, it seems like more ebikers seem to be entitled to do whatever they want (I'd like to do a social study on that).
  • 67 6
 This has been my exact concern as well. It's never been an ego thing, I don't care if someone is faster up a hill than me, or short for time, or whatever; that's all fine by me. The major point of contention is just what you said--these things will become more efficient, more discreet, and more powerful. Humans are lazy, so instead of taking the time to learn the differences, it will just be 'ban all bikes in this area'. It takes money to patrol and enforce laws where such bikes are not allowed. It's much easier to just ban all bikes than to add to a budget to make sure people aren't riding ebikes where they should not be.

Bike companies don't care, they are laughing all the way to the bank. No effort on their part to educate people on acceptable riding areas either. Just buy it and let 'er rip.
  • 34 18
 I think it’s easier just to ban the sale of ebikes altogether then that way us mtbers don’t have to worry about getting banned from riding trails altogether
  • 18 36
flag reydin (Dec 14, 2021 at 22:30) (Below Threshold)
 Over generalize much there Debbie.
  • 23 2
 100% agree. The moment you can pack Sur-Ron-esque power/performance into an MTB frame you loose all ability to distinguish Class I v II v III. Which includes the non-riding public. When they can't make a distinction between ebike and regular bike all they think is "damn, bikes sure go fast nowadays." And then come the regulations to correct it all but without a distinction among bikes.
  • 12 6
 They are not the same things.
  • 14 1
 Here comes the loss of access. Mark these words, trail centers will start to ban bikes because e-bikes are dangerous and you can't distinguish the two.
  • 6 1
 It is just about being an a hole. I ride an ebike because I have a lung condition and would not be able to ride much without it. Most ebikers are older and have disabilities. There are a few ebikers that are aholes just like a few analog bikers that are a holes. I have almost been run over by the Strava guys. If you are courteous, no one has any issues. The same a holes that are against ebikes eventually buy ebikes. Everyone gets old. Just be cool and usually people are cool back.
  • 2 0
 Come on there are more and more restrictions in the world for sake of "safety". If everything gets forbidden world will become a booring place. And remember, after banning ebikes next thing in line to ban are mountain bikers. For normal hikers mtb riders are not that much different.
  • 95 1
 This is my local trail in San Clemente. This old man used to ride a homemade e-bike on the jumps trails, then he moved on to this thing. I have even talked to him before and he was bragging about how fast he can go on that thing. He had a YouTube channel, but he deleted it. Don't worry, he will be caught.
  • 33 0
 If you know who that is you should contact the o.p.
  • 4 0
 I think that’s a different guy on the home made ebike.
  • 4 0
 San Clemente? I'm predicting it now: As far as law enforcement is concerned, it will become a civil matter in their eyes....but even if the injured party decides to sue, he will have a hard time proving fault while engaging in an 'extreme sport'. Everything is going to be predicated on the class of electric bike he was riding, what official rules there were, and who had legal jurisdiction to write those rules.
  • 4 0
 @Myspeedbuggie: His homemade e-bike is like a hybrid. It's a normal bike, but works more like an e-moto. He always has the same striped socks on. Drives a white van. He was parked next to me a couple of weeks ago.
  • 6 1
 @MTB-Ohana: oh man, whatever you do, please do not vandalize the crap out that van Wink
  • 1 0
 My local trails too. This idiot has come close to killing me more than once.
  • 1 0
 @Jamminator: He left the scene of an accident and was illegally operating it. That part will for sure be a legal aspect. He could potentially get hit with reckless endangerment and potentially some reckless driving charges depending on if you interpret that as a vehicle. Everything else I'd agree will become civil.
  • 1 0
 @Bobohunter1776: You realize it was not a public motorway, right? Half of your charges no longer become applicable under their legal definition.
  • 1 0
 @Jamminator: In California, reckless driving is just defined as operating a motor vehicle "in willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property.” It would depend on how a judge interprets a motor vehicle. Reckless endangerment apparently isn't an actual charge in California. Hit and run also applies if its interpreted as a motor vehicle. By California law, a motor vehicle is any self propelled vehicle. If you can find anything that says it not being a public roadway makes a difference let me know but I didn't see anything.
  • 1 0
 any updates on the matter?
  • 1 0
 @iiman: I tried searching not to long ago and found nothing. My guess is unless you know either party involved, we probably won't hear anything.
  • 1 0
 @Jamminator: too bad, thx for the reply
  • 78 1
 Those fucking E motos have no place at dog park. I feel I can say this being an avid E biker but I'm going uphill at maybe 6 MPH, not 40.
  • 73 0
 Local trail builder and rider of the "Dog Park Trails" here.
Just to clarify the laws of where this took place: At the entrance to that exact fire road where this happened there is a clear sign posted that says, "Class 1 Ebikes only". So the SurRon bike that was involved here was being operated illegally on this trail. The SurRon rider made a reckless choice, but regardless of who was riding it, these bikes DO NOT belong on these trails legally and logically.
  • 6 0
 Thanks for the clarification...because it looks like any other dirt road to those of us not familiar with the area.
  • 61 0
 This 'where am I going to ride' thing is the EXACT reason why I sold my dirt bike, and got into mountain biking (around 1989 or so). Just to go for a 'ride', I'd have to hitch up a trailer, get gasoline, load the bike, fuel, etc. and drive at least 1 hour to the closest place to ride (a small mx track by a drag-strip), If I wanted to ride in the woods, it was a 2 hour drive. Mountain biking turned that inside out, and I could have an adventure right from my house, or if I wanted to drive, have access to at least 10 mtb areas within 1 hour, many within 1/2 hour. The excuse 'where are these Sur-Ron riders going to ride' is entirely irrelevant. They chose this device, knowing full well that these bikes are not only illegal, but entirely un-welcome. And they make all of us two-wheelers, mtb riders included (acoustic and electric assist mtb'ers alike), look like a*sholes, because the general public does not differentiate. All they see is two wheels and an a*shole. So, take it from an old timer, don't feel sorry for these electric dirt bikers, for they can either load up and hit the ORV area, or stay off the mtb trails entirely.
  • 14 1
 Not to take away from your point, but Two Wheels and a A*shole sounds like a great underground country band name.
  • 12 1
 Things like the Sur Ron have just taken the "petro" out of petrotainment...yet they still attract the same trash humans.
  • 49 1
 Simon Cowell healed from his back injury already!?
  • 4 3
 Comment gold
  • 4 0
 LOL, the guy never had any backbone! Big Grin
  • 40 0
 MTBrs getting shot, stabbed, and now run over on the trails. 2021 has not been kind to anyone.
  • 39 1
 White 40s on the Sur-Ron. Someone knows this guy. Looks like felony hit and run to me.
  • 3 4
 40's?? If you know a 40-something who looks like this 70-something, I'd hope they were getting the medical treatment they need.
  • 10 0
 @arrowheadrush: LOL! Suitably embarrassed now.
  • 88 55
 Let's not demonize ebikers here. Let's demonize a*sholes…pure and simple. I've had LOTS of close calls with dirt bikers, equestrians, and hikers on multi-use trails. None of them were doing something wrong, just enjoying their day and activity. A larger conversation has to be had around one-way trails. It's truly the best way, in my opinion, to reduce accidents.
  • 147 13
 Nah man. That's an E-Moto and he shouldn't have been out there. Everything that people fear and hate about E-bikes are personified by these machines. If you're wondering where to draw the line in the E-bike access conversation, it's well before these things. No one should be out on multi-use trails like San Clemente with these. Those that choose to be that reckless frankly do need to be demonized a bit and certainly held accountable.

I've been seeing this video circulating for a few days now. Half of the mountain bikers in the Orange County/San Diego county area are looking for this dude. My advice to him, time for a new hobby.
  • 18 0
 I totally agree - it's the case that it's an e-Motorcycle and it's classified as a motor vehicle with the same classification as a gasoline motorcycle. The one that Simon Cowell was riding when he broke his back is the same deal except these companies creating these monster e-motorcross bikes are trying to cheat the system so that they get their classifications lowered without having to have proper registration and licensing. The guy who took off is definitely an asshole and I hope he gets charged with hit and run similar to what you get on normal streets and roads. It's ridiculous!
  • 10 26
flag Thendeb (Dec 14, 2021 at 15:07) (Below Threshold)
 @ihatton929: While I do agree with your statement, you should know that there are people who use Surrons/E-motos to build trails and features at San Clemente since it is so easy and much faster to bring tools back and fourth. They shouldn't be pinned on fire roads or trails though. This situation is obviously terrible and was the fault of the E-moto rider.
  • 28 2
 @Thendeb: If that's true, that's disappointing to hear. My opinion still stands though. E-motos don't belong on Multi-use trails, regardless of if they're being used for trail work or for fun. By all means, go enjoy them at OHV areas but lets call a spade a spade.
  • 8 9
 @ihatton929: Do you know for sure this took place on a specific trail? Looks like a dirt road to me and could be anywhere out in that desert. I dont know the area so I am honestly asking, but really are we sure this was not a multi use area where dirt bikes (of any power source) are maybe permitted? Not dismissing the jerks actions!! Takeing off he deserves whats surely comming his way!!!
I am only commenting on his use of a motorcycle in that area and if we are truly sure he was in the wrong place.
  • 14 0
 @DaleE: When people talk about "The Dog Park" and San Clemente, they're talking about one specific area. All the service roads in the area are included in the greater park and there's definitely no cars and Motos allowed.
  • 10 4
 @ihatton929: Thank you for clairifying, I am not fond of how these things turn into electric bike bashing, to me a motorcycle is a motorcycle and there are clearly places they can and cannot be used.

Thanx again
  • 7 3
 @DaleE: I definitely hope this is not another social media social shaming event. However, that guy on the e-motorcross should've stuck around. This is definitely a hit & run situation.
  • 6 0
 One thing is for sure, guys who poach trails on eMotos are going to respect one way trail signs.
  • 6 15
flag BikesNRussets (Dec 14, 2021 at 18:25) (Below Threshold)
 People see E and throw a fit lol.
  • 6 5
 According to a lot of people on here anything with pedals is a mountain bike and it doesn't matter if it has a motor or how big the motor is
  • 11 6
 @Thendeb: Walk or bike your damn tools
  • 2 0
 @DaleE: Same thoughts. It looks like a dirt road. But idk the area. Accidents happen and jerks are jerks.
  • 13 9
 @chize: Exactly. It's a slippery slope, no matter how people want to justify it to themselves. A Sur Ron is a lot closer to an long travel EMTB than an EMTB is to a regular mountain bike.
  • 3 6
 @ihatton929: So you're saying (or assuming) that this isn't a mixed-use trail that allows dirt bikes as well. From what I can tell, it looks more like a fireroad than a MTB trail. Also, the article doesn't make it clear what's legally allowed on this trail. So again, let's not jump to conclusions.

Where I live, we have LOTS of trails that allow both dirt bikes and mountain bikes.
  • 7 0
 @Captain-Spaulding: I've ridden there many times and a trail builder further down in the comments confirms this as well. No vehicles are allowed here. The scope of use is Hikers, Bikers and maybe horses(I don't think so though). The fire road this took place on is one of two main service roads that link up a network of trails. They exist primarily to provide service to the park and powerlines. Regular people aren't allowed to take motor vehicles on them.

We're talking about a suburban Southern California neighborhood with some extra land set aside because it borders on a military base here. I know the kind of areas you're talking about well and do appreciate their existence but this isn't that kind of area.
  • 3 0
 @ihatton929: Thank you for the clarification. Then I stand by my comment…let's demonize a*sholes because this jabronie absolutely is one. Smile Given how fragile MTBers access is, there are absolutely zero excuses for this. I have both a 350 dirt bike, ebike, and a friend's SurRon (who lets me borrow it), all of which I'd ever dream of riding on an MTB-only trail.
  • 1 0
 @CSharp: this very same idiot has almost killed me twice. If he ever hits me like he hit the poor mountain biker in this video internet shaming will be the least of his concerns.
  • 2 0
 @SCrider57: I definitely hope this a-hole does get caught. I'm not condoning his actions by any means but my initial post about social media is that a lot of times, you get to see only one point of view. A lot of us are quick to apply judgement immediately (including myself). The video only starts after the accident had occurred and we actually didn't see what caused the accident but clearly, the jerk took off rather than sticking around and not even seeing if the injured person is OK or not.
  • 34 5
 Did no one in that group have _any_ first aid training?!?
The downed rider obviously hit his head, they should have been stabilising his head/neck and making sure he was moving as little as possible, not removing his helmet and offering him Ibuprofen.

Seriously, mountain biking can be dangerous, you owe it to yourself and your riding buddies to take, at the very least, a basic first aid course.

I have no doubt the internet will find the idiot on the Suron though, devil's advocate, if he had his bell rung good he might not have been thinking straight. Someone should have been watching him too. His helmet didn't exactly look motorcycle rated.
  • 20 3
 To address the start of your comment. There's no short version of this, sorry! It's about 1 full min to read I've been an RN for 23yrs, a lot of my cohorts have worked in the USA, I've traveled there. I've had an interest in this topic for YEARS. I know how much healthcare actually costs "generally" in Canada (that cost includes my wage). SOOO... In the most of USA there is effectively no "good samaritan act" to, protect from an individual from being sued, for trying to help. (That is why the woman put the ibprophen near him not actually in his hand) First aid training overall in USA has much lower numbers % wise (despite the massive #s with military service). Its the same reason the guy riding the dirt bike illegally, f☆☆☆ed off. If he hung around he knew he was going to be charged, even just ticketed, and then his fault is established and he is on the hook for every cost related to that accident. I bet that guys "rescue" (b/c off a paved roadway) and medical treatment has already hit +$12g US. If he's uninsured, that is ALL on him,..... unless you sue someone to pay it. Which his ins company would do on "his" behalf, after paying for his care, to recoup costs. FYI in Canada that would have been a $40 - 100 CDN surcharge for the ambulance ride and done. The cost to to system including a specialist oral/maxillo/ facial surgeon would have come in about 1/2 that total in CDN dollars.
So really, NEVER travel to the USA w/ out buying extra insurance.
  • 9 0
 @jethromtbr: I agree with many of your sentiments but I'm pretty sure every state in the US has a good samaritan law. I know from my first aid training that Washington state definitely does as do many others. Administering ibuprofen or any other non life saving medication may be a bit of a gray area though.
  • 3 0
 @shami: agreed, having worked at an agency in multiple states where it is required to have higher levels of first aid training. We have been taught there is Good Samaritan laws to protect thoughts implementing first aid to those in need. I’m not entierely sure where @jethromtbr got that info, but I live and have worked West of the Mississippi. So I can not confirm to any states East of there. However I am pretty sure all 50 states and DC have some form of this law in order.
  • 1 0
 @shami: *to protect those* implementing first aid. Damn autocorrect on tablet.
  • 5 0
 @shami: she didn't administer ibuprofen. She offered it to him to self administer, so she's all set. You're correct that most states do have good Samaritan acts that protect you as long as you're not negligent and attempt things above your skill level. If you attempt aid (and they accepted if they're conscious, if they're unconscious their consent is waived), you can't be sued no matter the outcome. If you attempt a tracheotomy because you saw it on tv once, you're screwed, or if you're a licensed medical provider (anything above "first responder"), you can be held accountable to your legal practice standards. I fall in to a weird gray area. Legally, I only carry a CPR and first aid card (for humans), but as a veterinarian, I'm trained in advanced medical, surgical and life saving techniques for every species except humans. If I can place an emergency tracheotomy in a dog, do I have the technical skills to do so in a human? Sure. Am I legally allowed to? Nope. Would I be held accountable if I did so and there was a complication? That's where the courts and a large gray area develops that I hope I never get to explore.
  • 2 0
 It's scary how many people don't have any first aid training. I always prefer riding with my friends that are nurses, medics, or at least have first aid/first responder training, however many do not, or don't remember anything from their one day training a few years ago. That was the best part about Trans Cascadia; in addition to the 6 person medic crew on course, 25% of the racers were MDs so you were basically surrounded by medical professionals.
  • 5 0
 @gilby82: Apart from anything else, a lot of people were just milling about - no one was even with the injured rider, just sitting with him, reassuring him, asking him what hurt etc. Keeping the casualty calm and communicating with them is one of the most important things you can do, even if you don't have any first aid training.
  • 5 0
 @Linkpin: This. I found it very odd that nobody was even with the injured person.

"Are you ok?"

"No."

... crickets
  • 1 0
 @gilby82: I mentioned the ibuprofen to clarify why she didn't actually administer it. I think we are on the same page there.
  • 1 2
 @pourquois-pas: What are they supposed to do? His airway is patent, there's no major bleeding, he's in pain but you can't do anything about that. Just because someone is laying on the ground doesn't mean you can do anything about it except wait for the ambulance or wait for them to compose themselves to move out of the area.
  • 3 0
 @JohanG:

Keep him calm and reassure him.
Check him over for any other injuries, especially ones you might need to update the ambulance about e.g. head injuries, sucking sounds while breathing.
If the way he got hurt could have caused possible spinal injuries, stabilise his head while you wait.
Also don't assume that because you can't see major bleeding there isn't any - it could be internal or he could be bleeding into padding under dark clothing.
  • 34 2
 None of the riders there stopped the guy from riding away?
  • 10 15
flag mi-bike (Dec 14, 2021 at 20:03) (Below Threshold)
 did you see the video? He was looking at / checking his bike while rolling it to the side where a bunch of other bikes were lying on the side of the road. Not obvious at all he was going to jump on and ride away.
  • 33 3
 @mi-bike: looked EXTREMELY obvious
  • 14 2
 @abayers: it looks obvious when you know what the outcome is going to be to begin with, but without knowing that you wouldn't necessarily know as well
  • 10 2
 @mi-bike: It was 100% OBVIOUS to me that the assclown was about to bail!!
  • 10 0
 @mi-bike: It was plenty oblivious. The slowly moving away was a clear sign.
You don't keep looking at your bike and walking 10 ft each time.
  • 28 0
 Not to blame him or others like him, but you've got people like Sam Pilgrim doing videos of him riding one of these in public places, near playparks and around towns, which just enables people and gives the impression that it's ok to ride these wherever. He's obviously giving a lot more thought to what he's doing, but these idiots will just try to copy without thought.
  • 5 0
 That was my first thought, I'm sure I've seen Pilgrim riding one of these in a park. You're right nobody can blame him for the behaviour of others, but it's a good point to raise.
  • 12 0
 @rbeach: Yeah, although it is absolutely illegal in the UK to be riding a moto (electric or otherwise) in public parks so definitely something people like vloggers need to think about, and the messages they're sending. But you can't ever compensate for all the idiots.
  • 54 23
 This is the slippery slope.
  • 46 30
 There is a large difference between an electric motorcycle and a pedal assisted eMTB, it's not valid to lump them together. Besides that: This is the fault of the operator, not the machine.
  • 8 12
flag tremeer023 (Dec 14, 2021 at 15:10) (Below Threshold)
 A load of them have started showing up at my local bike park in the last year. They aren't reckless and ride slowly up the path. Also there is less difference between them and a large pedal e-bike than between a regular DH bike and a jump bike. It's a tricky one but this was always the fear with the whole e-bike movement.
  • 17 0
 @TrailFeatures: Well, yes, but the common person hiking on the trails doesn't realize that. It doesn't take too many negative incidents to get them banned. MTBers at this point are a pretty large coalition, ebikers are not to the same extent.
  • 1 5
flag TrailFeatures (Dec 14, 2021 at 15:46) (Below Threshold)
 @HB208: My question to you are these thoughts from from having 1-1 conversation with people (non-MTBers) who are concerned about it?
  • 19 10
 It's valid to lump them together because it's virtually impossible to verify without some intrusive inspection that an electric assist bike that looks like a proper emtb is truly class 1. An obvious e-moto is an obvious e-moto; that's not the core problem. It's that the whole access scheme is unenforceable and working on legislative hair-splitting and the honor system
  • 13 4
 @Snfoilhat: if it moves without pedaling, it’s a motorcycle. If it’s going over 20mph, it no longer has any assist for a class 1, so it’s no different than a regular bike. 50mph, 120# 2 wheeled vehicles are not bicycles or ebikes, their are motorcycles.
I wouldn’t mind owning one, but wouldn’t want to ride most of the trails I ride my bike on. But our east coast trails are not nearly as open as your Cali trails. The video looks like it was taken on a dirt road? Was it open to vehicle use?
  • 21 4
 Not really, it's a simple slope: If it has a throttle lever, it should be banned.
  • 7 0
 @TrailFeatures: Yes, my area is pretty against ebikes in general.
  • 25 2
 You're at the trailhead sayin hi to people -- how do you tell whose ebike is legit class 1 and which left the factory as class 1 but isn't anymore? You're in the woods doing trailwork and someone blasts by you and a pack of cub scouts and the county supervisor's spouse on a hike, you can tell with your eyeballs the bike is legit class 1? What you've given is the definition of class 1, not a means of telling which bikes are allowed on any given trail system. "People also ask: How do you trick a ebike speed sensor? How do you unrestrict an electric bike?"
  • 4 5
 @TrailFeatures: Whoever down-voted you has forgotten about personal responsibility and the cost of freedom.
  • 2 10
flag DDoc (Dec 15, 2021 at 4:16) (Below Threshold)
 @Snfoilhat: Its the rider not the bike. You have to trust that people will be respectful of other trail users. there's a guy who putts around our local trails on a beater Honda from the 70s with a sparkle open face helmet. Sure he leaves a couple marks but he rides so slow its not a problem. no reason to call the ranger.
  • 1 0
 @manitunc: Those dirt roads are generally powerline/fire truck access roads and not general OHV use. If you look in the background you can see the tower lines.
  • 7 0
 @TrailFeatures: That is my point. You and I know the difference but the causal public doesn't. So when a hiker or equestrian calls to complain or posts in their local FB group, they won't distinguish between legal and illegal E-bikes.
  • 9 2
 @Jamminator: What about a throttle you activate with your feet?
  • 4 0
 @TrailFeatures: It is 100% valid. It will happen, and it will negatively effect regular MTBs when they are lumped in as well.
  • 3 0
 @VtVolk: 200 IQ play, you've got my upvote.

In seriousness, the only things that should matter when differentiating an eBike and eMotorbike are whether there's a throttle control, the wattage of the motor, and the top speed before motor cuts out. The issue is no nation and no state can agree on any of these things and put it into law, so all we have is a cluster @_%# of wild west where sales aren't regulated. In the USA, the CPSC guidelines that eBike fans always reference are a joke...they don't even make mention of the word 'throttle'.
  • 8 1
 @Jamminator: exactly! Plus the fact that most (all?) ebikes and emotos can be modified to go faster, make more torque, bypass the pedals, etc., (and that PB even sells adverts for derestriction schemes) makes the only meaningful differentiation: motor vs. no motor.
  • 1 0
 @matmattmatthew: if he’s going over 20mph, he’s no longer on an ebike. The E-assist cuts out there, so he’s either on a regular bicycle or a motorcycle.
  • 27 2
 I've seen that guy almost every time I ride there on the weekends. Don't know who he is or where he live but has to be local since he rides from the street down to the park. That Sur Ron is way faster than the stock ones. He goes as fast as a motorcycle down the street. This was just a matter of time when he hits someone either biker or hiker. That guy is giving us ebikers a bad name and now the city might banded ebikes at that park. Hopefully that guy gets prosecuted for manslaughter.
  • 8 1
 Manslaughter?
  • 25 4
 pssst...ebikers already have a bad name.
  • 1 1
 @sino428: Yeah manslaughter! He murdered his jaw! But seriously WTF
  • 26 1
 I’ve met this guy before. He wears the same googles and socks all the time. When I met him he was climbing up g8, I told him to chill out on riding that thing up downhill trails but didn’t care. I came out of sloppy seconds jump line and almost got hit by him. Same guy, he roost the corners like it’s nobody’s business. He’s also been seen at waterworks as well. He’s on Pinkbike aswell, he told me himself that he’s going to ride anything and not care. I tired to be cool with the dude but he’s a straight up a*shole and doesn’t care.
  • 4 0
 Well, that a*shole just committed a (likely) felony hit and run and will likely be sued once found. His attitude caught up with him.
  • 1 0
 Yep. He’s an idiot and he’s almost hit me too.
  • 30 4
 And this is how we get all trails closed off to all mountain bikers.
  • 32 11
 The video is titled, "Ebiker pulls a hit and run after injuring a mountain biker".

Glad to see we finally are acknowledging ebikes and motorcycles as the same thing.
  • 28 10
 This is the unfortunate consequence of E-Bikes on trails in my opinion. I fully understand that this is a completely different class of vehicle, but try telling that to everyone owning one of these things. I'm sure in a lot of their heads, it's the same thing, and they will ride wherever they feel like because in their heads it's the same thing.
  • 16 0
 That looks a nasty accident. No idea why you would leave when the other person involved is on the floor still! The spec sheet for those Sun Ron emoto-x bikes is similar to a 250 MX bike, but silent. I''very seen them on a Lake District bridleway in the UK and they absolutely rip. The walkers I came across as I followed them looked pissed. All the other trail users see is bikes and we are all tarred with the same brush.
  • 19 2
 San Clemente ain't that big! hopefully they find that asshole and beat the shit out of him.
  • 14 0
 I ride at Dog Park all the time, and have seen what is most likely the same rider on a Sur Ron over the last year. He almost hit me head on just down the power line road from where this one happened. Same type of bike and Fasthouse gear, so very possible it is the same guy, the rider always had a full face helmet on though and a black FH jersey with a number like a 55 or 58 or something on the back. I've also seen the rider I'm familiar with tear through a group of riders at the bottom of Sloppy Seconds that were about to go up EZ Up also. Those Sur Ron type bikes have NO BUSINESS on those trails, and after this I don't think riders will tolerate it.
  • 1 0
 Curious if there is a trail crossing there or if its just fireroad where that guy was hit. Seems strange to have a head on there if its open road unless someone was really not paying attention.
  • 1 0
 @SacAssassin: Thats a fire road where the riders collided, however there's quite a few blind corners. I've almost been hit a couple times myself by these guys on Sur Ron as well as guys full size motocross bikes.
  • 19 3
 " I knew he was going take off" But I chose to do nothing about it...
  • 7 1
 Regrettably it's impossible to predict what potential weaponry people have on them these days, or what the mental/psychotic state is of the potentially armed individual.
  • 4 1
 @kilgore-trout: ot, but that is a fantastic username.
  • 3 0
 @dirtyburger: Kurt Vonnegut's invention...
  • 12 0
 My buddy and I ride the hell out of a surron, but guess what, we don't do it where mountain bikers ride because we're not total cocksuckers.

I would not wait for the help of the cops to protect your local trails. If at all possible, get this guy's key. Its a long walk with a 100+ lb bike. Plenty of time to call your friends and have them greet this individual.
  • 12 0
 I live in the town just north of San Clemente and ride there quite often. It’s been becoming more of an issue. Hope this guy heals up alright. I’ve had a few close calls out there.
  • 6 0
 I live and work right there in Talega and have had so many close calls that I have stopped riding there recently. Sad someone finally got hit.
  • 14 0
 What a scumbag.
  • 13 0
 What an absolute garbage person
  • 11 0
 What a complete sh*t stain. He better hope the officials get him before any karma or street justice prevails (yes I know 'illegal', don't do it. yadda yadda yadda)
  • 14 0
 Fucking scumbag!
  • 14 0
 Zero class human being.
  • 9 0
 I have seen these SurRon-iots out at dog park (saw one at irvine park once too) and told them to go to the moto track, they are not welcome on any MTB trails. The irvine park guy I came across was cool about it, felt bad and had no idea (rich guy from those big ass houses)...the crew at dog park-were just a-holes.
I wish this injured rider a speedy recovery, glad he had a full face on and best of luck dude.
  • 7 0
 It's a bit like e-scooters, there's literally no way to legally use one (here in the UK anyway), as they are not allowed in pedestrian places as they are self-propelled, and not allowed on the road as they don't meet any vehicular requirements, yet they are for sale everywhere. No wonder people don't have a clue about what they're allowed to do.
  • 7 0
 @redrook: Yeah, you will probably find somewhere in the instructions or on the packaging in tiny writing "please ride responsibly in accordance with local laws" or something similar and the company can then claim they had nothing to do with this type of thing when it inevitably happens.

If it is not legal to use it, it should be illegal to sell it.
  • 4 0
 @Patrick9-32: 100% agree
  • 15 0
 Direct quote from the front page of the Sur Ron webiste:

"The Surron is taking the USA by storm. Mid drive electric bike that you can ride anywhere."

Wonder why there is any confusion??
  • 5 0
 @VtVolk: That's not just an implication, that is a flat out lie. Wow.

On their UK site it is very clearly listed as an "off road electric motorcycle" with nothing to imply anything about it being an electric bicycle and a conspicuous absence of any information on where it can be ridden (which in the UK is nowhere except private land with landowner's permission).
  • 1 0
 @VtVolk: I've heard some more shady stuff about these guys. All anecdotal, of course. But smoke/fire kinda thing.
  • 3 0
 @VtVolk: Sounds like a negligence lawyer would love to go after the manufacturer and introduce that into evidence. Sounds like a winner to me.
  • 20 7
 Eff'ing E.bikes
  • 11 1
 Look at how he almost caused another accident when he went to pick up his ebike...
  • 7 0
 Should be treated like any other hit and run. Felony causing personal injury. Heal up fast and when he is Id then find a shark of a lawyer and you know the rest…btw the motorcycle electric or gas is evidence now. Check YouTube also…especially anyone posting go pro on that trail system…
  • 25 18
 This is the future everyone wanted. The guy on the ebike was just enjoying nature and wasn’t being discriminated against because he’s out of shape. The ebike just allowed him to ride even though he has a heart condition. Plus he was 72 years old.

Everyone complaining about him is gatekeeping.
  • 2 0
 Hes known now. Its a matter of time.
  • 6 0
 so I have to ask, being around more than one scene where someone is injured, this screams out to me......does no one know how to handle someone that may have a possible head/neck or spinal injury??!!! sorry....had to say it ,in hopes people get some basic first aid skills. We play hard and ya want to bale to help your buddy or have him help you!!
  • 1 0
 I had a similar conversation (though not the same) with a friend of mine, about a mate of his who crashed and had to be helivac'd off the trail recently. My mate left his phone in his car and had no personal information to hand for his injured friend as he was being prepped to be flown to hospital. I told him about Road ID ( www.roadid.com ), though this doesn't cover the Stabilising of injuries scenario.
  • 6 0
 What a w*nker! All the people I have seen riding those type of bikes are complete A holes. A fully electric bike should only be for paraplegic people not lazy f*ckin w*nkers who can't be bothered to pedal. First thing would have done was pin him down until the feds arrived
  • 7 1
 When you make an exception for one bike with a motor all other bikes with motors are going to follow. This is the issue we have been trying to navigate in northern Utah. Do I just start saying f*ck it and ride my moto on MTB trails since it identifies as a MTB? No, but others sure as shit will. Bike shops need to remind folks anything with a motor is NOT allowed on USFS managed trails unless designated for motorized use. Do they? f*ck no.
  • 5 0
 We have had the same thing here with E-Motos riding on MTB trails. They have caused a lot of damage to the longest DH trail we have. They have been caught on Gopro and even the authorities ended up looking for them. I don't think they caught them and its looking like they are back again riding on the trails.
  • 5 0
 As posted on MTBR Surron has some responsibility in this. This their marketing on the website.
"The Surron is taking the USA by storm. Mid drive electric bike that you can ride anywhere. Fast, long range, and reliable. SurRon USA is one of the first to introduce this bike and we are proud to continue the tradition offering both bikes and upgrade parts."
Lets start a email campaign asking them to change the marketing from a bike to a motorcycle.
I sent them the following:
"Perhaps you should change your marketing. This is not a bike, it's an electric motorcycle and you can't ride it anywhere.
While I understand you can't be responsible for your owners, your marketing is misleading.
Here is a video of one of your owners causing an accident and severely injuring someone on bike trails that are closed to motorcycles.
www.pinkbike.com/news/video-rider-flees-scene-on-electric-motorcycle-after-allegedly-hitting-and-injuring-mountain-biker.html"
  • 8 0
 Hopefully someone on Pinkbike can help identify this guy.
  • 7 0
 Sincerely hoping for the "full review drops tomorrow" version of this story where we get a name and some criminal charges...
  • 8 0
 SCUMBAG!
  • 5 0
 He might have bought it locally? Any dealers in the area? Just gutted for the victim. Can’t wait to read how he was caught and prosecuted soon!!
  • 5 0
 fuck that asswipe - he's a fucking douchebag emeritus. people like him don't deserve to walk much less ride their ebike after pulling shit like this...
  • 5 0
 These e motos are far worse than gad motos as they are virtually silent! At 50mph you never even hear them coming until they have hit you!
  • 6 0
 Should have beat that dudes ass before he took off. Throw him and his e moto off the fucking side
  • 5 0
 Isn't this California? What happened to rangers with radar guns fining you if you went over 15 mph like there were in Marin County when I live there.
  • 4 0
 They are currently in the Bay Area giving out tickets for speeding, no helmet while climbing and night riding. I don't know of any in SoCal.
  • 10 6
 A 7000w suron is not a class one 250w emtb. How dumb are some of you to think they are the same thing? He was riding a moto-x bike, it doesnt matter if its petrol or electric, its still a moto-x bike.
  • 5 0
 Any Sur-Ron rider out on the trails needs a slap, pure and simple. In the UK they are usually wearing a tracksuit and a man bag and look like complete c#%ts.
  • 3 0
 There’ve been groups of riders on Sur Rons at my ‘local’ and they don’t give a stuff about the trails, other riders or that they shouldn’t be riding there. Apparently, the group even have a channel on YouTube showing them riding at different places, although I’ve not seen the videos.

Idiots like this get away with it, but it’s mountain bikers that end up paying when trails get closed.
  • 4 1
 Time to ebike complain: I was passed-zipped by on a tight single track up hill by two old men, probably early 70's, and I was keeping a pace that even a very fit and accomplished rider would have approached me slowly enough to hear them and give way. It pissed me off big time, and yes part of it was indeed ego anger.

Ebikers need to be instructed in direct and simple terms that YOU MUST RIDE AN EBIKE LIKE IT'S A REGULAR BIKE. It's dangerous otherwise, like putting formula ones on the the street with regular cars and letting them go as fast they want.
  • 6 3
 All the comments from e-bikers here are interesting. About how this kind of motorized bikes will give them a bad name, how they will ruin trails, how they aren't the same as regular e-bikes, how these guys are able to ride up the down only trails, etc. Because these are the same things that traditional mountain bikers say about them.
  • 2 2
 sino 428...and it's what hikers and equestrians have been saying about all of us since the '80s.
  • 2 1
 @codypup: Agreed. That's why I'm just suggesting to keep things in perspective. No one ever thinks what THEY are doing is an issue.
  • 3 0
 We've got an infestation of them county wide here. Usual story...riding illegal trails, climbing the downhill trails, speeding around hikers, acting like entitled douche bags when questioned. Just thankful no one's been seriously injured here. Suppose it's just a matter of time though if we all do nothing and let them carry on.
  • 3 0
 Hoping for a smooth speedy recovery for the MTB'er. It's was rough watching that video... I really hope @Pinkbike and some of the locals, we can be in the loop on how this turns out over time. Gino Michael Fordiani needs an old fashioned a$$ whoopin. Daily... What an embarrassment to humanity that guy.
  • 14 9
 These mountain bike thing really looks dangerous, it should be banned! Will soon say hikers.
  • 7 2
 Not to be insensitive but can anyone tell me why someone is using an early 2000's flip phone to film this?
  • 1 0
 Potato cam
  • 4 0
 Looking forward to the story / update when caught. Probably better he just makes the call in himself. 6 weeks always feels like 12
  • 3 0
 What is with the 10 or so people standing around and just letting that guy walk off and then ride away?

Seriously hope this guy on the SurRon gets found and charged and also gets sued.
  • 5 0
 Anyone know if there's a Go Fund Me or similar link to help kick some assistance to the injured rider?
  • 3 0
 What a arrogant, ignorant selfish piece of shit. Doesn't even help or offer assistance to the injured rider. These are the type of people that need to be hung from the tree and then call the trail Hangman
  • 2 0
 I feel like if this goes to court it's going to be so much worse for the guy on the motorcycle since he ran away. Had he stayed put and checked on the condition of the injured rider instead of checking on the condition of his bike and showed a shred of concern he would be much better off in the eyes of a judge. I hope we get updates here on PB about how this plays out.
  • 4 0
 Find em and sue the hell out of em! Idiots like this only learn from something that hits home. Obviously this jerk has more cash than brains. Hit em where it hurts!
  • 2 0
 "Per California (CA) Vehicle Code, electric bicycles are classified as conventional bicycles. Electric bikes must not exceed 750W and must not exceed 28 mph on level ground" (from google) "Powerful yet nimble and with a climbing ability of over 45°, it offers hours of near-silent fun with a range of 20 to 60 miles per charge (depending on Eco or Sport Mode). Top speed 45 mph, and usually charges in about 3 hours with a powerful 10A charger. ". (Sur Ron website). Why has this company not been hit with restrictions from a government level? Why hasn't something been done to prevent injuries.
  • 2 0
 This is bad on all levels:

1. If you ride on the Sat or Sun morning in most parks, got watch your speed up or down lots of people on the trails:/

2. Rangers will be cranking down on this area and now a lot of the fun stuff will be removedFrown

3. Base on some of the replies on this article there are people out there that still don't know the different between an eMoto (Throttle controlled) and eMTB (Pedal Controlled)
  • 5 0
 Sur Ron $4200.00

Quick look
Trek Rail 5 $5,499.99
Norco Fluid VLT A2 $5,498.00
Specialized Kenevo Comp $6,000.00
  • 3 0
 Man, I hated to see that lowlife douchebag slime his way out of that situation. What a creepster! I hope this incident gets local coverage and one of his 'friends' turns him in.
  • 2 0
 I bet the old guy who hit him was wearing headphones too. All the problems ive seen of any trail user whether its Hiker, mtb, emtb, moto, is usually because people are wearing their damn headphones and not paying proper attention while going uphill!
  • 2 0
 I rode Dog Park early Friday morning. It had pretty much dried out from the rain on Wednesday. There were only a handful of mountain bikers there. I talked to a proud dad with his little daughter stoked to be riding on her little BMX bike. Then a guy on a full gas powered Motocross bike blows by me. I could see where he had ridden. Leaving deep spun-out tracks on the trails. Bad ass stupid dude. Breaking the rules. I'm sure he doesn't give a Sh...t. I guess it saved him a drive to the desert.
  • 4 0
 Ray Charles could have seen that coming. Pull the key and throw punches for a bro
  • 4 1
 Hey @notoutsideceo , have you seen this gravel biking crash video? Hope you're wearing a full face on all your e-gravel rides!
  • 6 1
 I wear a Bell Super 2 DH while eGravel biking! Be safe be well, Incognito Robin
  • 1 0
 the guy with the camera was more focused on recording the victim and area than just stopping this a*shole from leaving the scene.
At the moment when he moved behind the rest of the group, you should stop him.
So many people to stop him, no reaction at all...
Shouldn't be like that Frown
  • 4 1
 am not surprised at all. that's why I don't want any motorized offroad traffic. will rather give up biking but will never switch to that e shit.
  • 5 0
 Douchebag
  • 3 0
 Brutal and very unfortunate. Hopefully that fellow heals OK.

E-Motos on trails with MTB's. Blank Stare
  • 4 0
 240p you son of a bitch we meet again...
  • 2 0
 -After seeing this all over the internet he turned himself in. -His Sur-ron is heavily modified to make more power and go faster.
  • 1 0
 Really, that's some good news.
  • 1 1
 Not sure about everyone else but my E bike is restricted to 16 mph and it's pretty damn hard to pedal it any faster once you hit the restrictor. My analogue bike will pedal way past 16 mph. My point is I could do more impact damage in a collision on my analogue bike. ith this in mind I prefer to ride gravity focused trails on my E bike and when I'm pushing up I've even got walk assist. Something tells me that E bike manufacturers are encouraging riders to push up trails.....stop the hate peeps.
  • 1 0
 Noticed a sur ron guy making footage at Sedona bike skills park. Doesn't appear to be park legal by their rules. Is this another accident on the works?
youtu.be/FknBMJjVSss
  • 10 7
 Are electric motorcycles really e-bikes.....
  • 4 10
flag fracasnoxteam (Dec 14, 2021 at 13:41) (Below Threshold)
 Ask Karen
  • 43 13
 Ebikes are actually mopeds. They were just marketed better to avoid the embarrassment of explaining that you ride an electric moped on non-motorized trails. But the guy in the video is on a battery powered dirt bike which is next level.
  • 10 7
 It's built with mountain bike parts and for the most part looks like a mountain bike.
  • 13 3
 @map-guy: Not the ones I've seen or the one in the video, looks like a motorcycle, just battery powered. I have no problem with pedal assist e-bikes but this is a different animal all together.
  • 8 10
 Absolutely, really not! It's like asking if a motorbike is a mountain bike even though both are on two wheels and both can be seen riding on roads or in the woods. e-Motorbikes are a totally different classification due to it enormous power output. However, companies that produce these e-Motorbikes are trying to classify them as e-Bikes to circumvent the rules on motor vehicles, which require a heck of a lot more certifications and registrations. This would mean that a person buying it would require certain licensing and vehicle registration. You don't need that with an e-Bike, just like you won't with a regular bicycle.
  • 3 0
 @fracasnoxteam: I do not think that means what you think it means.
  • 1 3
 @redrook: there are other meanings?
  • 4 0
 @jeremystclair: To us we see a difference. To the perception of other trail user types they see them as mountain bikes.
  • 5 0
 @fracasnoxteam: No just one, which you don't appear to know. Unless you can explain how you think it would apply in this situation?
  • 7 0
 @fracasnoxteam: I also don't understand, a Karen is someone who makes unreasonable demands or complaints because they are entitled. Not sure why you think that fits here.
  • 3 0
 @speed10: I have no issues with someone telling me I am on a Moped and I usually tell people when I am passing them "Moped rider coming thru".
  • 1 9
flag CSharp (Dec 16, 2021 at 13:15) (Below Threshold)
 @mr-epic-3: I can say whoever says it's a moped is just as stupid as any Karens out there. It's obviously not a moped. However, by belching out "Moped rider coming thru", you might even fuel the hatred for e-MTB's even more.
  • 7 0
 @CSharp: Technically an e-bike is a moped, because a moped was originally a bike which was powered by both pedalling and a motor. Nowadays mopeds are entirely self-propelled. So it entirely depends on which definition you're using.
  • 3 9
flag CSharp (Dec 16, 2021 at 15:01) (Below Threshold)
 @redrook: Let's put this to rest:

www.transportation.alberta.ca/content/docType41/Production/small_vehicle_booklet_final.pdf

A MOPED is a motor VEHICLE according to the motor vehicle act. And in Canada (specifically in Alberta) a MOPED is a MOTOR VEHICLE! A bicycle is not. That means, it requires registration and a class 5 license (and/or a motorcycle class license).
  • 8 0
 @CSharp: Yes that's the current legal definition in one particular region, but I'm talking about the history of the term moped and what it originally meant, as I said. And in fact the definitions of moped are different between Canadian provinces, so you have simply chosen one which suited you. In Ontario "a moped is a motor-assisted bicycle fitted with pedals that can be operated at all times to propel the bicycle".

The word moped was coined by the Swedish journalist Harald Nielsen in 1952, as a portmanteau of the Swedish words motor and pedaler. Original mopeds were bicycles equipped with engines and in some countries this is still the case, and in fact the definitions of moped are continually changing.
  • 8 0
 @CSharp: Getting that butthurt and still being wrong lol. Took five seconds of research to confirm everything @redrook has said. Even Websters defines a moped as "a lightweight, low-powered motorbike that can be pedaled" and "a pedal bicycle with a helper motor or a non-pedal bicycle with a motor". Sounds like an e-bike to me!
  • 6 0
 @CSharp: Let's indeed put that to the test - the term "moped" was actually repealed from the motor vehicle act (Canada) and is only legally defined by individual provinces, and as has already been said, that definition varies. But even semantically, what the f*ck do you think the "ped" part of the word means?
  • 8 0
 @CSharp: A moped is not only a low powered motorcycle, it is ALSO a bike powered by both pedals and a motor. There is ongoing debate in a lot of places about where e-bikes fit and legislation is yet to catch up, but it will. There are also many places where a licence is not required for a moped scooter (self propelled) or only a provisional licence is required. e-bikes pretty much perfectly meet the original (and many current) definitions of moped.
  • 1 11
flag CSharp (Dec 17, 2021 at 10:28) (Below Threshold)
 @Jackaboo: @Jackaboo: You can argue to your hearts content on the logistics of what is a motorized vehicle and what's not. If and when e-Bikes are classified similarly as a motorbike, moped, or whatever people deemed these mid-Drive (pedal assisted) bikes, these bikes are just what they are. Read the specs on these - these aren't the same as the e-Motorcross that have 100x the power. These bikes weren't made for daily commutes on streets. I know some of you are bashing e-Bikes because of pride or because you've read or someone tells you they're just a motorized bike with pedals and they'll wreck trails. Well, grab a brain and do some research and literally try one out and see if you can actually spin gravel off a dirt parking lot. The ridiculous comments you see from people are like ill-founded and there is absolutely no justification for any misconceptions. Seriously, I was one of those people who criticized e-Bikes until I actually tried one out and started building a few for family members. There are different classifications of e-Bikes as well. Look into it if you need to understand which classifications e-Bikes are allowed on some trails.
  • 6 1
 @CSharp: rare that anyone bans anything on any trails outside of greater population centres. The trail damage and damage to MTB reputation is real from e-bikes to motorbikes My buddy owns a throttle e-bike and a regular e-bike and there is absolutely a spin out effect with the throttle and the brapping ride style that they offer which contibutes heavily to trail damage especially when wet. So mopeds, e-bikes, motorbikes are all the same until there is significant regulation which isn't happening fast enough. There's no pride in the issue, e-bikes are the worst thing to happen to MTB.
  • 6 1
 @CSharp: No one is criticizing ebikes in this thread. Simply and calmly stating that ebikes have both a motor, as wheel as pedals, that propel them. That’s really not refutable. No one is saying they are the same as e-motocross. My initial comment was clear on that.
  • 7 0
 @CSharp: YOU'RE the one arguing to your heart's content, it is irrefutable that e-bikes by many definitions, including the original definition of the word, are mopeds. The downvotes on your comments speak for themselves, now shut up and deal with the fact that you have been educated
  • 7 0
 @CSharp: What the actual f*ck are you talking about you braindead bellend? Literally none of your comment addresses any of the points above because they all show you to be talking shite. You seem to have got extremely butthurt because you think this is some kind of criticism if ebikes. It's not, but they are absolutely, by almost every definition, mopeds. I hate to tell you this, but being able to "spin gravel" does not factor into the legal definition of anything. What an absolute clown.
  • 7 0
 @CSharp : Are you genuinely special bud? Because only someone with severe comprehension issues could possibly make the comment you've just made.
Let's be very clear. A moped is any vehicle with pedals which can propel it as well as motor assist. It can also be a small, low-powered motorcycle. BOTH of those are definitions of moped.
Now, is an e-bike a vehicle with pedals which can propel it and a motor assist? If yes then it's a moped.
Imagine telling someone else to "grab a brain and do some research" when it's all right there. Either a complete clown or a troll, but I'm guessing the former.
  • 6 0
 @CSharp: Lol I love that you've replied to me and ignored all of the other comments. I agree with the others, you're just a clown.

All I said that was any different was that legislation hasn't caught up with technology. Not sure why that seems to have emotionally affected you so much, but I'm sorry you're so fragile snowflake. The fact that ebikes are source of debate is pretty irrefutable too, but maybe you need to "grab a brain" sometime Wink
  • 5 0
 @CSharp: Who said they were the same as e-motocross? And why is that relevant? Why does it matter that they weren't made for daily commutes? Who said anything about wrecking trails?

Nobody is criticising e-bilkes, literally none of the comments since your first one has criticsed ebikes. This is all about you not understanding what a moped is.

This is all about your comment which claimed that ebikes aren't mopeds, you then cited a regional piece of legislation which uses one specific definition of moped, which as we know is unusual, and actually different to other definitions even within Canada.

Other people clearly HAVE got brains and have done some research, maybe you should follow your own advice.
  • 1 8
flag CSharp (Dec 20, 2021 at 12:04) (Below Threshold)
 @ Blerger @Greeta25 @rbeach: f*ck dudes - get a grip! All I pointed out is a distinction between what is considered a motorized vehicle and what is not. This has all relevance from people misjudging an e-Bike and classifying them as a motorized vehicle when they clearly aren't. You should ALL do your research before voicing your opinion and flooding social media with your bullshits! Seriously!
  • 7 0
 @CSharp: Are Laz-e-bikes powered by motors or fairy dust? The prosecution has no further questions.
  • 1 9
flag CSharp (Dec 20, 2021 at 13:13) (Below Threshold)
 @map-guy: Not sure what Laz-e-bikes you have but if someone told you they're powered by fairy dust from Tinker Bell, you'd probably spread it all over social media. Instead of having sarcasm here and condemning e-bikes with general cynicism or hatred, do some research on how they're made, what kind of power they have, any legislation they have in your area, who actually rides them, and what their capabilities are. People coming out with quick judgements without any knowledge is IMHO pathetic. And I don't care to be blunt about it.
  • 2 0
 I feel like I finally won the real PB advent calendar give away.

@CSharp is over here giving a free master class in internet trolling.
  • 6 0
 @CSharp: No. You said to me that an e-bike isn't a moped. Nobody said anything about motorised vehicles, we are talking about what, and what isn't, a moped.
  • 6 0
 @speed10: Lol he's giving a masterclass in how to get trolled. You ever seen anyone more triggered? Big Grin
  • 6 0
 @CSharp: Buddy, read your own f*cking comments haha. What a clown. The only bullshit is coming from you, everyone else is telling you that e-bikes are, by definition, mopeds. That's all this is about.
  • 5 0
 @CSharp: Aw snowflake, you still butthurt? Because e-bikes ARE mopeds Wink
  • 4 0
 @CSharp: NOBODY is condemning e-bikes you utter f*cktard lol.

EVERYBODY is tell you they are mopeds. Why you are bothered by that I'm not sure, but that's what they are.
  • 2 0
 @speed10: Trolling implies that he knows what he's doing lol, I genuinely think he's just a bit dim and doesn't understand what's going on. He clearly genuinely thinks someone's having a go at ebikes.
  • 1 0
 @Jackaboo: I thought that too. But I dug deeper into some of his other recent comments. I think he’s just a piece of shit. I don’t think he’s here to engage in productive conversation. But if he is dim and he has 5 of us still coming back here to reply, well what does that say of us?
  • 1 0
 @speed10: If he's trolling it's inadvertent.

What does it say of us? That we have a low tolerance for disinformation and imbeciles? Yep, I do.
  • 1 0
 @Blerger: at the end of the day they are all bikes and we are rad for riding them. Merry Christmas everyone!
  • 1 0
 @map-guy: And nobody was criticizing any of them either. If someone takes moped as an insult that's their problem. Happy holidays!
  • 3 0
 Gino Fortiani of Shoreline Plumbing is the Surron rider.
  • 2 0
 Hope hes smart enough to have his corporate and personal assets separate else the guy who got hit may just end up being the new owner of a plumbing company with a reported $785K/yr revenue.
  • 3 1
 Ebikes are at it again goddamnit
  • 6 8
 I ride a class 1 E bike, I’ve been riding MTB for over 25 years, I’m part of NEMBA and do regular trail work. I’m a polite and conscientious MTB and E rider and it’s behavior like this that make “ANY” kind of riding look bad! This could happen anywhere and on any kind of bike and all it takes is ONE BAD APPLE TO SPOIL THE WHOLE BUNCH! Class 3 E bikes tend to be cheap to buy and I agree that it may be a gateway for inexperienced riders without the respect and experience to behave properly out on the trail and to ride trails they simply shouldn’t be on. As a passionate class 1E rider I’m asking you guys who are putting the hate down on all E’s to please keep this in perspective and realize that content like this may help inform future E riders of the mistakes NOT to make on the the trail and the importance of trail access and trail etiquette…
  • 4 4
 We live in a world of sissies !!!
Why didn’t anybody phuquing grab him when he started
Straightening his front end ????????
Bunch of sissies
  • 8 1
 Probably because that would be assault, regardless of what he did. He's on video, he'll be found, calm down.
  • 3 0
 what a c*nt
  • 1 1
 It is really nice that folks stopped and helped this poor guy. When someone is injured like that please don’t give him water or Advil especially since EMS is on the way.
  • 2 0
 Find this guy and sue him. Find a personal injury attorney.
  • 3 0
 F**king idiot
  • 1 1
 Add the current rate of ebikes development I’m sure next gen specialized levo and the likes will be just as powerful/fast as Sur Ron now
  • 1 1
 Except they won't as they will still have 250w pedal assisted motors, 25kph speed limit (in Europe) and won't have a throttle.
If specialized produced what you are talking about, then it would be an electric motorcycle, like the surron currently is.
  • 4 3
 Damn Pinkbike, why are you calling an eMotorcycle an eBike? Be responsible, not Fox News.
  • 1 0
 yep! gotta watch out for those silent motorcycles now. hopefully buddy that got hit got to keep the motorbike now.
  • 1 0
 That bloke was well ourt of line leaving the scene but this thred really very American...
  • 1 0
 Has this jack ass been caught yet? What’s taking so long? He’s on camera…. Do we have an update?
  • 1 0
 wibblywobbly you seen to know alot about this idiot
  • 1 0
 Karma will find him. And when it does....
  • 2 1
 small step to e-bikers big one for e-moto
  • 1 0
 width="less than 10000px"
  • 3 1
 Ebikes are so cool.
  • 3 3
 f*ck Mopeds but why were so many people standing even filming but nobody has helped the fallen rider?
  • 1 8
flag bigdog79 (Dec 15, 2021 at 17:44) (Below Threshold)
 Makes me think it was staged or the biker did something to cause the accident
  • 5 5
 Makes perfect sense this would happen in the cesspool of entitlement and convenience that is SoCal.
  • 1 0
 Any updates? Has the suspect been brought in for questioning?
  • 30 29
 Ebikers...
  • 2 6
flag SebastianApple (Dec 15, 2021 at 8:15) (Below Threshold)
 Road bikers...
  • 4 7
 If an e-cross bike tried to hit an e-biker would Skynet take over and make it miss? Obviously Skynet doesn't care about human powered bikes so didn't prevent this collision...
  • 1 0
 He turned himself in?
Below threshold threads are hidden





Copyright © 2000 - 2022. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.031652
Mobile Version of Website