Video: Testing the Difference Between Steel & Aluminum Frames

 Right. He’s such a rad kid and so humble! So insanely fast too. Haven’t figured out yet why Neko hasn’t shown anything of him. Sure would be cool to see

 His POV looks more like drone footage. So smooth.

 @stormracing: maybe he doesn't want to be on video?

 @Mtbdialed: He's also only 16. Let the kid rack up some results and experience before shoving a camera in his face all the time.

 @pisgahgnar: that too.

people that like being on camera cannot comprehend people that don't, and it's hilarious.

 I would have thought 8" of travel on a DH bike would be enough to "mute" the difference; apparently not. So, if steel feels better than aluminum, I wonder if you could replicate this test vs a carbon frame? If aluminum gives a stiff ride - doesn't the same apply to carbon? And wouldn't the cost of building steel be cheaper than carbon these days? Obviously there's the weight issue - but on DH bikes, seems bikes can get too light... Also, makes me wonder - why do they make most test mules I see from aluminum (instead of steel)?

 Make everybody happy with a bike featuring:
- a steel front triangle
- lugged carbon + alloy rear suspension
(- titanium options if it makes sense)
- and stop being a dick about materials.

 @danstonQ: if I had my druthers I'd like to be tooled up sufficiently to work in every material. I'm tooled up for carbon. I'd love to weld metal under the same roof! I can't get zoned for it without a massive untenable increase in overhead, and those same type of words apply to other businesses - you get in a groove (barely), and then you press hard. It is absurdly hard to avoid. Meanwhile when I get a customer willing to buy a carbon component, sometimes they are TOO enthusiastic about the wonder-properties of carbon and they want a bar that weighs like 90 grams and I'm all heeyyyyyy, bring the idealism down a notch, we have to deal with real life forces here.

 @danstonQ: I would love to see a bike with all materials in it,like 1 tube titanium,other steel,some carbon and so on hehehe. Do not forget about some magnesium in the mix,a DH bike made of magnesium would be the rarest bike on the market.
It would be ace if more bike companies make a frame for Frameworks. Good way to make your company some publicity and some good DH knowledge for the cost a making a few frames,not even design or develop them. Being an open program regarding the frame,is a win situation for any part involved. You could sell a WC proven DH frame geo.

 @trillot: Most brands don't make even prototypes or mules themselves, they have to get their frame vendors to do it. And most aluminium frame vendors aren't set up at all to manufacture in steel. Also, if they mainly use aluminium and are comfortable and experienced using it, and they have half an eye on a production run, that would be another reason to go aluminium for mules.

 @danstonQ: a Reeb sst but with a titanium front triangle

 @stationaryisdead: a REEB... yum yum!!!

 You wood know...

 I can’t cell-u-lose, too expensive

 Shoot, you beat me to it.

 If Frameworks makes a bamboo DH frame, I’ll definitely invest in their stalk.

 Definitely against the grain

 it would feel more planted for sure.

 All these puns, I won't panda to it

 @rufus26: They just steel your time...

 This thread is my hands-down favorite invasive species.

 “Pick a frame material and be a dick about it.“

 @sfarnum: I understand the reference

 @sfarnum: hahahahahahah! best reference right here

 Could it be the newer parts and tech and that the starling is just a better bike rather then what type of metal the frame is?

 Just built up a Reeb. Will also be sticking with steel from here on out.

 The alloy certainly could be lighter, but for the strength and durability requirements of downhill and enduro frames, a steel frame is probably close enough in weight to the aluminum, especially if its 853 steel. For an xc frame no doubt the aluminum will be much lighter, but the advantage decreases as the frame bulks up.

 I think that's also the story if you look up the Geek Pages of Cotic (www.cotic.co.uk/geek/page/SteelFullSuspension). Aluminum has a lower density so for components subject to bending and/or torsion (where larger tube diameters are helpful), aluminum could be the more favorable option. The thing is, space is limited on a bike, especially around the highly stressed area around the shock, linkage, bb etc. So increasing diameter is limited and you end up using thicker tubes for aluminum. And there, steel could actually give you a lighter solution as you can work with those small diameters and still have enough strength and stiffness without needing thicker walls. So yeah, especially for those longer travel "harder hitting" full suspension bikes, steel could make for a comparably light frame.

 The steel project definitely started out as a discussion about how to inject some reliability into the frames after last season, but it's moved on from there. Through iteration of the details Neko has overcome the aluminium durability issues, so now it's all about which will make a better race bike. I don't actually know what the weight delta to the aluminium front end is, but based on the tubing specs I was designing against, it's not going to be much, and where it is heavier it is stronger.

 @cotic-bikes: Huge thanks for the reply. Very helpful info. And props to the other two commenters who knew a lot more than I did.

 youtuber = tuber = spud

Don’t be a spud about it.

 I love the reference!

 @scottgray: apparently others didn’t get it