Well.... one question. Why have Joe racing against Christina, but the boys aren't racing against anyone (?Fabien) - just for some perspective to see how they stack up against a pro?
@jordanaustino: yeah Right, I did not watch yet, but I saw Couscous on there before, raced UCI DH world cups from 2003 I think untill 2014 when he switched to EWS for 4 seasons of racing. I was surprised that pinkbike could land a dude with such pedigree. Wasn't Fabien Cousinié the Polygon UR team owner? You know, the team with Tracy and Mick Hannah, Fayolle, and Sam Reynolds etc?
I think the guys were good references for each other, as we know they are each very fast based on prior results. Evan won an EWS qualifier last year in the U21 class, and beat Kasper Woolley, McKay Vezina, and Cody Kelley at a Continental Enduro Series race. Ben qualified for an elite world cup last year. Their results are actually pretty comparable to Christina's.
@jcc0042: Damn, Evan is fast as shit. He's got the lowkey personality and hasn't raced World Cups like Ben, but he's been consistently beating Ben on stages where he doesn't mechanical. He's kinda snuck up on everyone, but he's clearly a beast.
@withdignityifnotalacrity: Evan 100% should win. Jo is fun and is a great personality however I don't see how she can win posting times that much slower than Christina?
@danielstutt: I think it's the haircut. The shaggy dude who just rolled out of bed just doesn't look fast. They needed a segment on "the look" in the Academy. Get some EWS barbers up in there.
@trillot: if Strava can say something then for example Rock Hammer 3 fastest times man are: 1:12, 1:16, 1:19,... so 1:19 and 1:20 its right there,...
For woman tho,...fastest is 1:36 followed by bunch of 1:50,... and that 1:36 is actually Christina,... and Jo time 1:49 will put her to being the second fastest on that run.
@trillot: Hey I was actually supposed to race but couples of day before the academy I've had a big crash at Crankworx and cracked a rib so I could not race them, I'm leaving this here if you want to have a laugh www.instagram.com/p/CDznCg8i3CG/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link Anyway watching them ride, checking their times and consistency I'm pretty sure they would have smoked me Ben and Evan are really fast !
I agree that I'd like to see more of this mock racing on future seasons. I think a mix of this and the earlier episodes is important to turn this into a reality show vs just watching an enduro race though. I want a 50/50 mix of racing and challenges that focus on the other things a mid-tier enduro racer needs to be good at (social media, supporting a team lead with mechanicals, etc).
@fabiencousinie: Haha- those are some incredible noises! Glad you made it out relatively okay and kudos for commenting on the speed of Ben and Evan. It's interesting that everyone is saying "lets see how they stack up to the pros"... they have both literally raced top level events in the pro class... so I would say they stack up well. Both are still young with lots of riding and building to go. So much talent. Be happy to see either of them win and hope to see them competing/riding in the future.
So true. Also, Even seems take is time to replace his derailleur. Was the time between two stages limited like in real? If it would happen to myself, I'll certainly more stressed than him...
@tomrider84: Evan is a super laid back dude who clearly knows his way around a bike. I think he's just being him, which helps in that stressful situation!
Best episode yet. Honestly, it would've been cool to treat it like a training camp (ahem Academy) and have the full staff build up their fitness, technical skills and mechanical acumen over the course of the two weeks. And maybe have a benchmark race and then a final race. Like, I'm genuinely curious to see how Vlad and Addison would have performed. I get the reality show elimination template, but if we're gonna race, let's race! Also btw, Evan is a beast, really snuck up on me how good the dude is. [Reply]
Oh. This is a great idea... but 2 weeks isn't much time to train. In post-covid times they could have folks there for a little longer... or maybe show up for an initial week, go away to train, and show up again for another week?
1) As a typically non-race enthusiast, I'm enjoying this series. Clearly it's not to everyone's liking, but no matter what anyone has to say about it I throw the PB crew and the series sponsors a high five for a different take on content. In the end they've all stepped up to give a few people some opportunities they may not have come across...win, lose, or draw.
2) Thanks to the contestants as well...win, lose, or draw. No matter how awesome you think you are it takes some commitment and confidence to sign up for this and put yourself out there. Nicely done.
As much as I love all things MTB, there's something about reality-type shows that I just can't stand. I'm not even sure what it is, I tried watching this one and after like 30 seconds my eyes glazed over and I chucked my phone.
I know I'm the weirdo here, millions and millions of people all over the planet love the reality TV format, but I just can't get through it.
How old are you? I fall in to the reality tv era (late 90's - early 2000's) and grew up watching this type of content. I tried watching the first couple episodes of this series and it just made me cringe. I wouldn't be surprised if a producer from that era was hired to produce this series because it reeks of early reality tv.
@generationfourth: I didn't think about a generational aspect to liking reality TV. I'm 45, do people my age not like stuff like that? It seems like I'm strange even among people my age.
@JakeEPooh: I think it's not about age, it's more about consciousness that this is simply a waste of time. It comes with age though. Most people think it's for free, but it's not, you are paying with your time. And realistically time is the most precious thing we humans have, but also the least appreciated. Commenting on PB is also a wast of time btw. But we are all slaves of our social instincts.
I’m not sure this show is about the results at all, and I’m not sure how much “real” is in “reality show”, but from and entertainment point of view I like this show. No it’s not as much racing as I would have liked. Some of the challenges, like rebuilding a fork, or scavenger hunting for water bottles. probably should not be the final judgement for sending people home, but I personally have been entertained. When you throw Covid in the mix during filming and account for all of the limitations that would have imposed I would give this show a solid A. My only criticism is that this show really needs more Chappetta. Everything pinkbike needs more Chappetta!
This was the best episode yet. Loving the tight racing between Evan and Ben. My only slight issue is sort of how Jo got a "benchmark" against Christina... Understandably Jason and the team needed something to measure her against, but the same constituent should have been held against Evan and Ben (i.e. having a male EWS racer throw down some lap times). Since these overall lap times aren't the end goal, it's more comparing one against the other, which I think puts Jo at a bit of a disadvantage going up against only Christina. Just my two cents, maybe something for next season! Either way, hoping they all put down big last day runs!
There is absolutely no way Jo is remotely fast enough to deserve a full ride on ANY factory EWS team. Come on people, let's be real here, Jo would never crack the top 40 out of 45 women at an EWS event. I'm sorry, I'm just sayin.....
@jogpeters: I stand corrected, well played. My apologies for being quick to judge and my words came across as chauvinistic. For the record, the raw emotion you have displayed as a stranger in front of the global PB community is incredibly admirable and I salute you.
Seems like they should've had a baseline time for the guys as well. If it comes down to Jo and one of the guys, how do they decide who would perform better against pros?
Great episode. For real, doing what you guys have done with this show the first time out is really impressive. I like hearing Jason Lucas on the podcast seem pretty chill about some of the feedback. Honestly really well done and I cant wait to see the next season already.
I’ve watched every episode with my two young boys, they’re 6 and 8, and each week we all enjoy every episode. They talk about the challenges on our rides. Good stuff!
@brianpark: I’d argue the forefathers of mountain biking in Colorado and California basically invented modern enduro— pedal to the top, stage racing on the way down, albeit it was a lose format (but they weren’t exactly racing XC, were they?). In my mind and a lot of mountain bike history institutions (including the mtb hall of fame), this is where the birthplace of enduro should be accredited. But it’s a little subjective.
@brianpark: the literal beginnings of mountain biking were just enduro racing. Repack for instance, was basically a modern enduro race, 30 years before anything in France.
Serious question: is there a more independent source for mountain bike news and discussion? Seeing the absolute onslaught of sponsored content from Pinkbike in the last year, as well as this reality TV content makes me wish the MTB community had something more than just forums. I've enjoyed checking The Loam Wolf but it's a similar mirage of sponsored content. Maybe certain YouTubers worth following?
Vital is great for general news and their forums, NSMB is amazing for super in depth product tests that’ll usually also give you tons of info on how to service/maintain the gear too.
When bikes worthy of review cost $3-9k each and require days of use for "first impressions", and months of use for a proper review, I don't really see how a truly independent source would have the funds or time to deliver enough worthwhile content to be relevent. How would you monetize? How could you hire staff without an income stream? I'm not in the biz, but I guess I don't see how any of this is possible without sponsored content.
There's lots of great MTB media out there, but I feel like I've got to make two points here.
First, just because other media doesn't label their things sponsored, doesn't mean they're not sponsored. Put it this way, if they are profitable without a huge community or traffic, the only way for them to make that profit is by sponsored content. And yes, lots of outfits don't disclose. YouTubers are 10x worse for that—if they're not getting millions of views they're not making enough money from ads to make it worth it, so they're almost all getting paid by brands for their content. Some of them are responsible and disclose it, but lots don't.
I work really hard to be clear about church and state, and I honestly believe there are no more transparent or independent MTB media publications out there. Unlike the vast majority of MTB media, none of our sponsorship stuff extends to reviews or verdicts anywhere. We're not charging for awards, etc. To be clear there are other great independent media folks out there, but I hate the narrative that we're not.
Second, "absolute onslaught of sponsored content" is a bit strong. So far in 2020 we've published 4482 stories, 160 of which have been sponsored. That's about 3.5%. In 2019 we did 167 sponsored stories. Hardly an onslaught.
@brianpark: A few more then two points but well said! My general feeling is that all content has become more over the top and much of your non sponsored ( non PB generated) stuff is made by folks who are. The whole feel is less genuine with dynamic banner adds and endless videos put out by the sponsored folks to clickbait us. That said if you can filter out the noise the FREE content is fantastic. ( I'll give you a pass on the blatant "fatbike the artic" add piece from a few weeks ago that slipped in as content....)
To your point on youtube adds, seem like they are every 60 seconds now with the frequency change, I dont even bother putting down the remote....Lets's just be happy that PB is mostly passive marketing and requiring a click to get marketed to....And atleast PB isn't listening to me on my phone and tayloring adds to what I just said or just typed...or are they?
So what news in the great wide world do you watch that isn’t sponsored? CNN, Fox, MSNBC, your local news, your newspaper, and on and on and on — all sponsored. All paid for by ads. I guess there’s NPR, or some state run stuff in other countries, but the vast majority of news in the US is sponsored by someone.
@brianpark: Brian, it seems that you take what commenters say to personal, i understand the comment sections is a very important part of this webpage, but dont let people get into your head, i can tell on the PB podcast that some commenters irritate you as well, Pinkbike has been and it still is an amazing MTB content page, even though i dont agree with everything on the website, i think you and your team are doing a great job.
@brianpark: I have a hard time believing that 3.5% number, and there's probably a pretty big disconnect between readers on how you count "sponsored content." My interpretation is that you got hard cash for 160 articles, but that doesn't tell the soft influence brands have with freebies. I doubt you include receiving bikes or gear for review as sponsored content, even though PB probably enters agreements with those brands to have them sign off on final publication to some extent, and probably take feedback from brand PR in the editing and review process and important bits to include. I think most normal people would consider that a form of sponsorship. Temporary free bike/gear, "fair review" that the brand gets a heads up on and maybe has a little sway in the editorial process. Am I way off base in thinking this? I'm sure smaller bike brands are just happy to have their gear reviewed good or bad, but I'd be more curious to know what PB's relationship is with the larger parts of the bike industry. How often do you guys take feedback from brands on your reviews before publication?
For what it's worth I think PB's need to constantly balance this soft influence of free goods is why PB fails to explain to its readers with any authority or decisiveness what trends are good and bad for the consumers -- PB is afraid of alienating potential customers/clients/sponsorships/brands etc. by being declarative about anything. PB couldn't exist without the freebies, but that's how they built their business model. That's why I'm asking for other outlets or content creators to follow for legit reviews. There's probably a way to deal with reviewing freebies that meets some journalistic standard, but the fact that you don't consider it a form of sponsorship tells me you're more interested in protecting the brands while maintaining the illusion for the consumers.
Doesn't matter man after that first episode it seems most of the good people are gone "oh let's eliminate good riders because they didn't make a good video or something! Cause that's so much harder to learn than to be a pro mountain biker" #prioirities
@monkeybizz: From what I gathered, Evan and Ben are two of the fastest downhill riders, if not the two fastest, in the how. Stoked to finally get a chance to see a race and to see how they stack up competitively.
117 Comments
For woman tho,...fastest is 1:36 followed by bunch of 1:50,... and that 1:36 is actually Christina,... and Jo time 1:49 will put her to being the second fastest on that run.
Anyway watching them ride, checking their times and consistency I'm pretty sure they would have smoked me Ben and Evan are really fast !
I think they're both super fast to be fair, but it would be cool to see who's closest to pro standard.
Proracer: I dont care, and not doing anything else then racing.
Also, Even seems take is time to replace his derailleur. Was the time between two stages limited like in real? If it would happen to myself, I'll certainly more stressed than him...
[Reply]
2) Thanks to the contestants as well...win, lose, or draw. No matter how awesome you think you are it takes some commitment and confidence to sign up for this and put yourself out there. Nicely done.
3) We need more 8-bit inspired soundtracks.
My only slight issue is sort of how Jo got a "benchmark" against Christina... Understandably Jason and the team needed something to measure her against, but the same constituent should have been held against Evan and Ben (i.e. having a male EWS racer throw down some lap times). Since these overall lap times aren't the end goal, it's more comparing one against the other, which I think puts Jo at a bit of a disadvantage going up against only Christina.
Just my two cents, maybe something for next season! Either way, hoping they all put down big last day runs!
Who the f*** comes up with these questions?
Absolutely painful.
Just not as painful as being eliminated for social media, because that’s got everything to do with racing...
That have me aids
Or was her personal record on the tracks chosen as the reference ?
Hmmmm... I think a lot of people would challenge that claim
Seriously, how do you think they pay their employees to provide free content?
First, just because other media doesn't label their things sponsored, doesn't mean they're not sponsored. Put it this way, if they are profitable without a huge community or traffic, the only way for them to make that profit is by sponsored content. And yes, lots of outfits don't disclose. YouTubers are 10x worse for that—if they're not getting millions of views they're not making enough money from ads to make it worth it, so they're almost all getting paid by brands for their content. Some of them are responsible and disclose it, but lots don't.
I work really hard to be clear about church and state, and I honestly believe there are no more transparent or independent MTB media publications out there. Unlike the vast majority of MTB media, none of our sponsorship stuff extends to reviews or verdicts anywhere. We're not charging for awards, etc. To be clear there are other great independent media folks out there, but I hate the narrative that we're not.
Second, "absolute onslaught of sponsored content" is a bit strong. So far in 2020 we've published 4482 stories, 160 of which have been sponsored. That's about 3.5%. In 2019 we did 167 sponsored stories. Hardly an onslaught.
To your point on youtube adds, seem like they are every 60 seconds now with the frequency change, I dont even bother putting down the remote....Lets's just be happy that PB is mostly passive marketing and requiring a click to get marketed to....And atleast PB isn't listening to me on my phone and tayloring adds to what I just said or just typed...or are they?
Thank you!
For what it's worth I think PB's need to constantly balance this soft influence of free goods is why PB fails to explain to its readers with any authority or decisiveness what trends are good and bad for the consumers -- PB is afraid of alienating potential customers/clients/sponsorships/brands etc. by being declarative about anything. PB couldn't exist without the freebies, but that's how they built their business model. That's why I'm asking for other outlets or content creators to follow for legit reviews. There's probably a way to deal with reviewing freebies that meets some journalistic standard, but the fact that you don't consider it a form of sponsorship tells me you're more interested in protecting the brands while maintaining the illusion for the consumers.
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