Video: Red Bull's 'The Honest Truth About Competitive Bans in Enduro MTB' - On Track with Greg Callaghan

Aug 22, 2019
by Sarah Moore  

Recovered from injury, Greg Callaghan is back just in time for Round 4 of the Enduro World Series in Val di Fassa. Joining him is Richie Rude, fresh off his 8 month suspension, at the same time as Martin Maes begins his 90 day suspension.

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Fassa Bikepark


  • 249 50
 What an absolute joke, they put Martin Maes in at the start who's ban was almost certainly an honest mistake and then try and equate that to Richie Rude's who took a banned substance likely knowingly from Jared Graves (Both are ex team mates and good friends, and probably know each other's doping). Rude's ban and the circumstances weren't mentioned at all (because he's guilty as hell) and they try paint it like it was an honest mistake like Maes' ban. They then say Sam Hill has good contention to take the overall now because of these bans and paint this as a bad thing because he's been playing by the rule book, in what world does this make sense? They then try and equate a doping ban to an injury and everyone's just "riding the line" and doing whatever to get ahead and the athletes are just "doing what they gotta do". Good one Redbull, loads of integrity and you must really care about the future of the sport and cycling.
  • 67 12
 Yeah ... IMHO, this is the worst On Track so far for the exact reason you bring.

I'm not sure RedBull would be so light-hearted about Rude if there was pics of him drinking from his "friend's" Monster Energy's bottle.
  • 87 29
 Maybe he just assumed if there was a supplement in the bottle it would be legal as graves is sponsored by the same supplement company and has no history of doping in over 10 years of uci racing. Graves f*cked up and rude f*cked up by proxy. Just because you assume these guys are out to cheat doesn’t mean that’s the case. Plus there was an investigation that concluded rude and graves were truthful.
  • 11 5
 C'mon... You're surprised an energy drink company, whose biggest consumers are frat house party bros getting blitzed, is taking a pretty magnanimous stance on doping severity?
  • 64 42
 @bulletbassman: we've tried this logic of yours here in the comments many times before... Unfortunately it makes too much sense for the average hater
  • 23 6
 50 shades of doping
  • 31 27
 Martin Maes not so honest mistake, dude was cover his tracks
  • 15 12
 @Remedy808: doesn’t really make sense when he won other races without testing positive for the banned substance
  • 7 11
flag Intensevp (Aug 22, 2019 at 22:04) (Below Threshold)
 @kleinblake: with that Idea in your Head. How many races do you think rude has won? Then shock horror Graves? 4x he was insane at at winning. So they have won and not tested positive. So don’t make sense they have now???
  • 13 1
 @Intensevp: The argument just doesn't play out. Here is the most obvious reason.... How many races did Lance win before he tested positive for anything (event the butt cream he got away with)?
  • 20 12
 Yet more Ill judged BS from this whole debacle. Rude and Maes are both guilty, don’t know Who else in the ews take banned substances but these two got caught. Nothing to celebrate .
  • 9 3
 I highly recommend to listen to the downtime episode with Yoan Barelli published here the other day. Very good point of view from someone who has way more reason to be pissed off
  • 10 3
 @Intensevp: well, the leg injury and medication that have the banned substance that happened to be issued by a volunteer race doctor are a hell of a lucky coincidence
  • 49 40
 As usual, people living up to nothing throwing accusations based on nothing. Richie was tested again and it will be a negative. Meanwhile you will still be sensation fed dummies reliving the antagonist and the fallen hero story for the rest of your life. Look, there are sites and magazines devoted just to that, why don’t you go there and comment on Miley Cyrus face, RKellys urine or Ivankas hair loss?
  • 32 6
 @davetrumpore: Where is the evidence that Ryno Power supplements were responsible for the doping results? Maybe stop with the mental gymnastics and consider that Rude and Graves went outside of their sponsor supplied supplements to get an edge. Makes them seem more culpable, doesn't it?
  • 12 15
 @WAKIdesigns: got to agree with you here
  • 10 2
 @Intensevp: dont confuse doping with testing positive.
  • 8 0
 LOL, the 'honest truth'. As opposed to the dishonest truth?
  • 13 0
 Poor Greg Callaghan, having to take part in that farce

Well RedBull´s is weird in terms of doping anyways:
  • 3 0
 Doping bans are part of sport, sponsored athletes rarely lose income its accepted. Right wrong good bad it’s here to stay and it evolves faster then wada can track or some very clever people work that legal grey area to the max
  • 5 4
 @davetrumpore: Here we go again
  • 6 1
 @firewalkwithme: Barelli's take is the most sensible. Maes should feel hard done by, but not because of anything to do with Rude and Graves.
  • 14 22
flag WAKIdesigns (Aug 23, 2019 at 1:27) (Below Threshold)
 hey, how about each Pinkbike smart ass writes an essay that would be an exemplary public statement explaining Richie? Come on. Bring it on. We will judge it then...
  • 2 1
 I cant comment because I'm currently on a banned steroid without a TUE...
  • 15 5
 @WAKIdesigns: all the richie rude apologetics are just another curse of social media, lots of people have become conditioned to say what they think will get them the most likes or what is most socially acceptable rather than what they really believe.
if a lesser known rider was caught cheating the same people would be on a full pitchfork and lantern witch hunt to get the person that disgraced their precious sport banned for life then hung drawn and quartered.
  • 15 1
 @davetrumpore: Wow... excuse the scepticism, it's not like history suggests that there is any reason for it...
  • 9 12
 @bulletbassman: Thanx for knocking that out! There are hundreds, if not thousands of different supplement companies out there all claiming to provide a benefit while it's likely that not 10% of them have considered how their use would affect a WADA screening.

But we expect the riders, who focus primarily on you know.... riding bikes, to understand the multitude of potential outcomes that chemist would labor to test and catalog?

This whole thing needs a heavy dollop of discretion before we can even begin to consider it fair. Especially after the way Maes was treated, considering his situation was easily provable and understandable.
  • 3 3
 @BDKR: The story is that the incriminating substances were not listed on the WADA website (they had only been recently banned), but could be found elsewhere. So Googling could be said to be an important component of a pro rider's skillset.
  • 23 6
 It seems odd to me that when Karim Amour tested positive without an excuse everyone was baying for his blood, and now that Rude has tested positive with no explanation other than "it was an accident" all the Americans (and if you look at the comments above, it's all people from North America defending him) are very keen to forgive him. I can't trust any of Rude's wins this year, he is an athlete that either knowingly cheated or didn't keep on top of the rules properly by accepting a drink from another competitor. Not knowing the rules, or not doing what you're supposed to do to make sure you don't break the rules, isn't an excuse. When this has happened in the past sponsors have been desperate to distance themselves from the guy that broke the rules, and yet here's Red Bull suggesting that the guy who broke the rules is hard done by.

Maes is awkward- he was taking something prescribed by a doctor, who he rightly trusted, in an emergency. He had all the evidence for that.
  • 3 0
 @kleinblake: well I just think they all got caught with something in their systems that is banned. So if they have got away with it before then fine. But they didn’t today. If meas really was in a leg loss situation and I’m sure he will pick a ban again to get better. I know I would. Everyone speeds at some point and at some lucky coincidence we get caught. That’s just odds. Maes lost the odds that day with the doc.
It’s black and white. Get caught get banned. It’s simple that way no matter the reason. It’s fair for everyone.
  • 1 0
 @b45her: i see Doping as trying to tie the line and maybe be one step ahead of the tests long term. Testing positive you got caught. Is that right?
  • 7 3
 @WAKIdesigns: You're the biggest smart ass on here Waki
  • 16 15
 @b45her: Except you have no proof Richie Rude intended to do anything shady. period. A slight tip: whenever your mind puts together a sentence going in the ways of "the thing that is really wrong with the world" "the thing that really ruins social media", "social media is rotten because" you should know you just cooked your brain with some good dosage of shitty thinking. It means that You just put yourself in position of someone who knows, or is a part of very limited group of people (your buddies off course) who know how to fix the world and if everyone followed your thinking world would become a better place. Good luck with that!
  • 2 3
 @BenPea: So why should a rider expect to find answers about WADA on a site that has nothing to do with WADA?

I don't think, "The Porsche site said this was an OK substance" would be considered a reasonable defense. Especially from a zero tolerance organization that's not about to accept responsibility.

OTOH, it's perfectly reasonable to expect an accepted authority to be clear, accurate, AND TIMELY in their sharing of what's on the ban list. Punishing someone for a substance that's not listed as banned is dubious at best.
  • 9 0
 @BDKR: But we expect the riders, who focus primarily on you know.... riding bikes, to understand the multitude of potential outcomes that chemist would labor to test and catalog?

Yes, that's exactly what is expected from riders competing in Wada controlled sports. Has been the logical rule for decades.

Who else would be responsible for what Richie ingests except Richie? This whole argument about ïntent"is really nonsense, the rules are really clear about it for a good reason. Or do you think you can get away with a DUI "I really thought that Whiskey was Apple Juice"?
  • 6 9
 @thewho07: I take it as being higher in the food chain than a dumb ass
  • 5 2
 @WAKIdesigns: Why would intent matter? The rules are quite clear here.
  • 2 3
 @Ronkol: So how does this play out with Maes? Should Maes have know that this doctor was going to give him some ill 5h1t? Or maybe it's just that we by and large tend to trust doctors, labels, brands, or even friends without considering that they (with or without intent) may be getting it wrong.

Additionally, if you had read what @BenPea posted above, the substance in question wasn't even listed on the site. How can one be expected to know what's expected if what's expected isn't communicated?
  • 3 2
 @BDKR: Exactly my point. It creates a grey area that means you can't place all the responsibility on the rider.
  • 1 6
flag BDKR (Aug 23, 2019 at 3:05) (Below Threshold)
 @Ronkol: "Why would intent matter? The rules are quite clear here", said every ruler or ruling body of every tyrannical system that ever existed.
  • 15 9
 @Ronkol: because plenty of folks here effectively call him a bastard cheater piece of crap, where the most apparent explanation is Richie Rude is guilty of same thing as Martin Maes: “being ignorant of precautions that need to be taken while taking supplements while at the same time being a competitor in UCI sanctioned events”? Topped by “being unskilled with PR and then employing people even worse at it, in the face an event that is extremely difficult to explain?” Whereas Martin had a simple explanation?

Shitty check on how to follow rules and shitty PR. Knowing people, how shitty and stupid the loudest people on the internet are, If I were Richie, I wouldn’t provide a tiniest explanation other than : I made a mistake by not educating myself what is and what is not allowed, and I will know better now. I will go back to racing and prove that I am innocent of what people accuse me of by getting great results and testing negative in the future.

The only thing that bothers me is... how can someone go, point a finger at someone, call him a cheater, then realize they were wrong and not feeling like a piece of shit?

I did it in my early and mid teenage years and I learned... the hard way. Some people here are like those stupid, comfortable shit kids that never got their ass kicked for talking crap.
  • 3 1
 @BDKR: So how does this play out with Maes? Should Maes have know that this doctor was going to give him some ill 5h1t

Yes. And Maes actually knew that considering they did ask that question and did try to look it up (which is quite odd considering they didn't do that afterwards).

You can rant and rave but these rules have been there for years, not sure why you think EWS riders should be excepted.
  • 4 0

Why not? Who would you say is responsible for ingesting stuff?
  • 1 7
flag BDKR (Aug 23, 2019 at 3:42) (Below Threshold)
 @Ronkol: "Yes"


As for ranting or raving? Not at all. But to the emotional, being on the receiving end of logical conclusion is a m0th3rphucker.
  • 7 0
 @BDKR: So all ruling bodies are tyrannical? Not really a solid argument.

These people are professional athletes and need to be responsible for what is put in their bodies. If it’s too complicated for them or they would just rather focus on riding bikes then they should pay someone the trust completely to handle it.

Intent is still relevant though. It’s the difference between a few months and multiple years...
  • 7 3
 @Ronkol: It's not a black and white issue. I'm talking 100% responsibility. Water isn't on the WADA list either. What if a substance doesn't appear on the first page of the Google search? Do you penalise people for not having their search engine set to 100 results on the first page? How many search results should you have to go to? Who sets that threshold?
Maybe I'm being naive, but you can't say there is no element of doubt.
  • 1 5
flag BDKR (Aug 23, 2019 at 4:00) (Below Threshold)
 @Tim2: Put your thinking and reading comprehension caps on friend. Did I say that "all" ruling bodies are tyrannical?

I expect athletes to do this to the best of their ability. But because they are athletes and focus on being athletes, they are not likely to understand this stuff to the same level as a biologist, chemist, or dietician. NOR IS IT REASONABLE TO EXPECT THEY DO!

Additionally, if the expectations are unclear or unsaid, then judgement should go to the rider. OTOH, if it's a procedural issue (as @Ronkol pointed out with Maes), then punitive measures are justified.

As for tyranny, any ruling body that rules without consideration of intent, without providing redress, or without acknowledgment of mistakes or shortcomings is tyrannical.
  • 4 1
 @BDKR: Pretty much all the major professional sports governing bodies hold athletes accountable for what goes into their bodies. It can’t work any other way or cheating would be even more endemic than it is now. In no way does that require the knowledge of being a chemist, biologist or dietician.

As for your last paragraph, I agree with everything you said but I don’t think any of it applies to this case. All the athletes have redress options up to and including the Court of Arbitration for Sport. If Maes intent wasn’t taken into account he would be suspended for much longer.

This is an example of the system working as designed and I think most fans and hopefully most EWS competitors are happy with it.
  • 1 0
 Double post
  • 1 3
 @Tim2: Yeah.... I know there are sanctioning bodies for all major sports. I had better or I've not paid any attention for 52 years right? :-)

I agree with the need because in some disciplines the cheating was damn near institutionalized. But there is a bad taste in my mouth and has been for some time considering this. And it's for this reason alone that I believe these conversations are important. You can't just accept that a system is good and leave it at that. It won't be long before it devolves into something less than favorable.

This conversation so far has pointed out two things. Unreasonable expectation of knowledge (not by you) on the part of the riders AND ambiguity at times of what is or isn't legal.
  • 2 4
 @Ronkol: "Yes"


As for ranting or raving? Not at all. But to the emotional, being on the receiving end of logical conclusion is a m0th3rphucker!
  • 10 2
 @WAKIdesigns: yes its totally plausible that both former team mates and dare i say freinds rude and graves, both drank from the same mystery tainted bottle totally accidently, wake up .
  • 4 0
 Hopefully the good things to come out of all this will be that ews athletes are more careful about what they consume and wada gets better at communicating what's currently banned.
  • 1 1
 Corporates... One day or another they will come and said a bunch of bullshit in the name of branding. Deviant art, pure and simple.
  • 7 4
 @dthomp325: Or that enduro loses credibility as an unmanageable cheater sport like e bike racing and fans focus on more exciting World Cup DH racing instead, which is where the focus should be.

I'm sick of hearing about all the cheating issues in enduro that have existed from day 1. The actions of the racers have seriously degraded the credibility of this sport. If every racer were like Sam Hill the sport would be fine. But they are more like Lance. Plus fans can't even watch the races cause it's too hard to cover so there are mostly only photos.

How about another pinkbike filter that would eliminate enduro coverage from my feed?
  • 5 9
flag WAKIdesigns (Aug 23, 2019 at 8:15) (Below Threshold)
 @Laymo: who cares what you and I think of Enduro or DH racing. If any of 99.9% commenters on Pinkbike dropped dead tomorrow, nobody would notice. Oh I wonder what happened to Jeb89kona, he had such an interesting angle on 29” wheels and doping in enduro - Said no one ever.
  • 6 5
 I know this might sound crazy, but I honestly don’t think any of these guys were out right thinking they were doping and cheating, but may deserve their bans for their ignorance (Maybe not as long or as harsh, especially for Maes as he has the doctor from the race being the one suggesting the substance). People are always searching for the edge and taking substances, even down to protein powders and caffeine, and it can be hard to filter what is legal and what is not, but at some point you got to own your eff up and take a hit for violating your doping agreement. I don’t look at any of these athletes as cheats. Yes, they messed up, but this is nowhere near the doping scandals of Armstrong (and the rest of pro roadies) and the comparison is completely weak. An effective anti-doping program is always going to yield some positives from tests that are innocuous to a level playing field. The key to an anti-doping programs success is to not cover up these results and let people off free and clear, as the UCI has done in road racing.
  • 3 3
 @lukeb: Honest question; do you think anyone who tests positive for a banned substance should be banned indefinitely?

The way I see it, Rude and Maes broke the rules. The lengths of their suspensions are in line with the circumstances of their positive test results. They served their suspensions and should be able to race again. Unless one of these two tests positive again, I don't have any real reason to think they aren't competing honestly.

Sure there the cynics out there will say "they're gaming the system," but I would be really surprised if someone in the EWS is running a highly sophisticated doping campaign. The risk/reward isn't there. No one is making enough money in the EWS to fund an highly sophisticated doping campaign. This isn't Lance making millions. As others have mentioned, Maes' situation would be a first rate scandal in road cycling.

There isn't a great solution here. At this point, I don't see why we can't agree someone broke the rules, recognize the suspension, and reserve the incredibly hot takes/judgement on someone's character until there is a real pattern of dishonest competition.
  • 1 0
 @Intensevp: Maes won again after the races where he tested positive
  • 5 9
flag fwp39 (Aug 23, 2019 at 9:43) (Below Threshold)
I know its easy to hate on America, Aaron Gwin and Richie Rude, I understand you're Jealousy, considering we have the most dominant 2 riders over the past decade in both DH and Enduro. (save for maybe Sam, but he isn't a Brit)
Bottom line is Richie is heavily tested, and still smoking the field. Don't be a hater
  • 13 2
 Actually Maes used a masking agent. There's no way to know if the person who prescribed it was paid to do it. This happens in road racing and given Maes success it's not absurd to think this is a possibility. His circumstances are just as suspicious as Rude's.
  • 2 1
 Yes So true!!!!!
  • 2 1
 @kleinblake: So what? Lance Armstrong has not failed (officially) a doping test either...
  • 1 0
 @martin737: so in the coincidence of the century he only tested positive at races where he was injured?
  • 4 2
 @WAKIdesigns: You must care if I motivated you to comment on my comments. Most Pinkbike comments represent the life blood of the sport of mountain biking. Except yours, which are almost always just blatant trolling from a frustrated person with too much idle time to waste.
  • 3 8
flag WAKIdesigns (Aug 23, 2019 at 13:30) (Below Threshold)
 @Laymo: as I wrote... if you dropped dead tomorrow, would there be an article about you in here? Would anyone tweet about you? Anyone? Well now, when it comes to Richie... do you know what I mean? Why would your respect or contempt matter to... anybody? You are so anonymous for everyone here that you may as well... you know what I mean.
  • 1 0
 I wish I could upvote this 1000 times more!
  • 3 0
 Leave him alone, it was only a low grade beaver tranquilizer
  • 4 6
 @autechre: living under a rock are we???Graves has listed the name of the supplement he was using by brand name a s event linked to the Ingredients (one of which was miss labled)... It's been well known fact he wasn't using Ryno power. Glad you are now more informed ;-)
  • 8 0
 Pretty easy to use Occam's Razor here. Facts are, EWS starts using UCI testing this year. Top riders are found to be in violation. Similar discipline of DH has been testing for a great many years and there has not been a violation in several years. What explanation takes the least amount of assumptions to arrive at?
  • 2 5
 @Rubberelli: occam’s razor? It’s Aliens.
  • 4 0
 @WAKIdesigns: nah I actually just call him a cheater. I do believe he loves cycling and would be cool to drink a beer with, but a cheater non the less.
  • 4 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Pretty much none of us commenting here matter at all from the perspective of the MTB industry. It’s only when a significant group of us agree on something that it might make a difference to the industry.

Considering your contributions to this article and the amount of down votes received it would seem they you are currently further from mattering than most.
  • 6 2
 @dhx42: I don't think lifetime bans are always appropriate but it is what the EWS said they would do. Now we've had 3 riders caught with banned substances in their system without any excuse or attempt to get a TUE and not one of them has been given the lifetime ban the EWS said they would hand out.

Rude has never offered anything, just states he doesn't know how it happened. The ban he was given was effectively an out of season ban, which doesn't seem like much of a punishment. Crucially though, he doesn't seem repentant. If you look at, for example, David Millar in the road world, he came back from a ban and was extremely apologetic and became a big anti doping campaigner and won a lot of good will for that. Alexandre Valverde on the other hand cheated a lot and came back and acted like nothing happened, as did Vincenzo Nibali, and there is a lot of resentment towards them.

I think if Rude stood up and said "I cheated" or "I made a mistake" then he'd be cut more slack. But here he is, in a video paid for by his sponsor, saying that his ban was the UCI being unfair. That's what makes him sound like a cheater (that and coming back from a ban for doping then winning everything immediately).
  • 1 2
 @lukeb: take a look at Jared's explanation in the comments from the time the story broke
  • 6 1
 @davetrumpore: you are protesting the innocence of these guys pretty hard. What's in it for you?
  • 2 7
flag WAKIdesigns (Aug 24, 2019 at 1:13) (Below Threshold)
 @ajp1: humane decency? And what’s in the opposite for you? Feeling like sht?
  • 5 0
 @WAKIdesigns: the lady doth protest too much, me thinks.
  • 1 0
 @lukeb: I appreciate you calling out the nationalism regarding biased reactions and doping. It is true we need to hold the higher ground if we hope to call out programs like those highlighted in Icarus with legitimacy. This is why I hold the US Anti Doping Agency in such high regard for their tireless persecution of a national hero (Armstrong). I hope your country's equivalent agency similarly scrutinizes Chris Froome and the team formerly known as Sky in the upcoming years. Year after year I see his performances at the tour and think the same thing as I thought when I saw Armstrong, unbelievable. It is great to see someone like Julian Alaphilippe perform at such a high level and yet the arc of his tour follows as a human's naturally should....he got tired and his performance suffered. I believe Bernal and Thomas's victories because they were strong riders on the strongest team and that is what their performance looked like. Froome on the other hand always looked suspect...and his destruction in the Pyrenees last year was uncharacteristic of every previous tour. I think something changed that year.
  • 1 1
 @ajp1: "the lady doth protest too much" is essentially pejorative.
  • 4 0
 @BDKR: yes waki designs and David trumpore are both ladies protesting too much. Seems suspect.
  • 1 3
 @ajp1: zero... What Waki said ;-)
  • 5 0
 @davetrumpore: some of your livelihood comes from mountain biking. So not zero. But you at least seem sincere. As for waki. The irony of him talking about the milk of human kindness when he is the most odious troll is so incongruous it beggars belief.
  • 2 1
 @ajp1: So you can chuck pejoratives AND NOT be a troll?
  • 4 4
 @ajp1: any that livelihood will remain unaffected by two riders failing drug tests, just like it won't effect the livelihood of others working in the industry. It's two fringe incedents in the grand scheme of things, a drop in the bucket, and everyone's moved on as far as I can tell... EXCEPT a handful of haters in the internet who comment under every EWS article the same contrived bull complete with conspiracy theories and their own set off facts. Two guys made a mistake, the dopoing agencies ruled they were not trying to game the system, cheat intentionally, etc... Yet a few if you want to put their heads on a pike and claim to know better than all the governing bodies and dopping agencies. Rules were broken, sanctions handed out based of the facts riders provided and the sanctions were handed out accordingly... But some of you want lifetime bans for negligence, and ignorance and won't stop making shit up to try and prove your case.
  • 5 4
 @ajp1: this was posted by Jared Graves way back when Richie returned to racing. Sadly it was burried in the comments and not put out as a press release (remember that Jared's case is still under review, and legally speaking Richie can not mention his name... Hence the "water bottle of another rider" being quite vague. Something the internet horde has used to justify their beloef he is just making it all up, etc)...

Jared's Words:
Ok,I'll try and clear a few things up, NO BS, just facts, hope it can help.

The supplemnet in question in this case is BPM labs "the one" which if you want to look it up. Now states Higenamine in the ingredients list, but in older versions, and in the tub in this case was listed as Nandina Domestica (fruit extract) and the oxilofrine component is still labelled as Synephrine HCL. Things get tricky when you type these ingredients into the WADA search and not a single result comes up, which tells you everything is OK. So we had to dive a bit deeper into finding out how these things got in our systems, and when we did, we found of that many ingredients have many different variations, and names, which is what has caught us out.
We also found out since learning the hard way, just how prevalent these ingredients are in off the shelf pre workout drinks, which is a bit scary when you first hand find out the consequences, and how unregulated products with these ingredients are. Even a teenager could walk in to a supplement store and buy this, no questions asked. I've also since learned that 1 in 5 off the shelf pre workout drinks (in Australia at least) have something banned in them.

Everything i've mentioned above had to be proven beyond doubt to the AFLD (french anti doping) theres no corruption, or loopholes, or lawyers spin put on it. Just facts and real consequences.

So i'll put my hand up all day long and say im guilty of negligence. MY mindset was that I'v never sought anything performance enhancing, and Ive never had an issues with the Dozens and Dozens of in and out of competition doping tests ive had, so all will be good. I git a bit too relaxed with the whole process, I never thought there was any chance I could ever be in this situation, yet here we are. A moment of Negligence yes, premeditated cheaters, hell NO!!!!

Maybe ask yourself, would you ever think you need to do extensive study and research, on every ingredient of every thing you ever put in your body?

Combine that with what I said above, and hopefully you get a clearer picture of how this very unfortunate situation has come to be.

Possibly the main reason i'm writing this is the amount of uneducated and downright false comments here. Some of you really should be a bit more careful with your wild assumptions and accusations. There are real people on the other side of this. Its obvious that many just want to be hateful and drag people down, and that's pretty sad. When road cycling and in Particular Lance Armstrongs name gets thrown in the ring, WOW, are you serious??? Consider the things iv'e mentioned, and maybe think again.

People all seem to think theres some kind of Magic pill out there, that will take them from weekend warrior to world class level podium guy. Nobody stops to think that maybe the 25+ hours a week spent training, in the gym, on the bike, not going out with your friends, 5am starts, the constant crahses, injuries and sacrifices, has a bit more to do with it. The work that goes in is simply incomprehendable to most, and it's what makes the difference. Everyone who trains and competes at that level understands that, Which I would say is the main reason no other pros have spoken up about this.

Mistakes were made, and we're both paying the biggest price for that. It's added more stress to my life, on an already extremely stressful time. So maybe take the time to consider both sides of the equation before spreading some uneducated hate, and misinformation.
  • 3 1
 @BDKR: I didn't imply I wasn't a troll. I also don't think I am lording my opinion as though it is fact. Which old mate does.
  • 4 3
 @davetrumpore: The EWS said that it would hand out lifetime bans to those found cheating. It didn't say those found cheating even if it were an honest mistake.
  • 6 2
 @davetrumpore: I have read the narrative. It is unfortunately, however, the same narrative that anyone found cheating in any sport uses. I find the whole professional sports and cheating paradigm fascinating. Unfortunately oftentimes it goes way deeper than the athletes getting rumbled.
  • 3 4
 @ajp1: the original ews rulebook stated riders who had been given dopping violations previously would not be allowed (i.e. Lance)... It also was worded vaguely and not in proper legalise that gave no definition to some of the wording. It did not say lifetime but rather something vague that implied lifetime but would not stand up in court... Additionally... Ews rules must follow UCI/WADA rules so it's irrelevant anyway at this point.

Curious is the point you are trying to make here that the EWS backpedalled? Do you want Richie, Jared, and Martin banned for life? Or can you see the original intention of the wording was far to harsh for actual reality????
  • 2 3
 @ajp1: perhaps that's because not all are "cheats"... Yes those that cheat will make excuses. And unfortunately those same excuses are often valid for people that make honest mistakes.... So I will ask you this... Do you believe Jared? A guy who was tested throughout his career dozens and dozens of times? Has won world titles, raced in the Olympics, etc and never failed. Is it not possible that he messaged up and didn't stay current with the always evelving WADA list? Do you think he is a cheater and just made that whole story up? Or did he just make a mistake that he and Richie have owned up to?????
  • 2 2
 @davetrumpore: I am not actually saying that they should have lifetime bans. In all honesty I am being a bit of a dick about it. I actually believe that once you have served your time you should be considered innocent.

The wording was vague and certainly it means that the UCI taking control of the doping logistics is a good move for the sport. They are one of the best governing bodies of any sport with regards to doping.

The whole episode has been good for the sport really. It has been unfortunate for the individual athletes involved, but it has perhaps enlightened the whole roster about how professional athletes should behave with regards to their attitude towards supplements and other such factors.
  • 4 1
 WAKI wrote:
"You are so anonymous for everyone here that you may as well... you know what I mean."

WAKIdesigns: You are essentially becoming an internet bully, and an obviously miserable one. You don't understand how this internet forum works and I doubt you understand how proper communication in general works amongst normal human beings. The most popular comments get seem more than the unpopular one's and whether you like it or not, or acknowledge it, the comments do influence people's opinions, which influences other people's opinions who might not even have seen the idea one the internet.

I think your comments might represent how you feel about being frustrated about being ignored in your past, am I correct?

Someone once mentioned that you used to make positive contributions to this site before you became frustrated, what happened?

You seem like somebody who spends so much time on here, have you ever thought about how all your emotions and dopamine reactions in your life are so integrated into this electronic website?

WAKISuggestion: Get the internet out of your brain and get some family and friends back in it. And be nicer to people whom you don't know.
  • 4 2
 @davetrumpore: I would not like to say anything negative regarding Jared's career. He is obviously a legend. Unfortunately passing a doping control does not mean that you haven't been doping. Yes it sucks and yes it has been spoiled by others, but that is the game.
  • 4 1
 @davetrumpore: My feeling is that exactly what did happen was exactly what should happen. Testing just began in EWS, so lifetime bans would be ridiculous. It is irrelevant whether or not there was intention to cheat. Even if they were just naive and new to all this, the rules state if blood doesn't come back clean, punishment is handed out. And so it was and now every single rider in the EWS knows they are not screwing around. If next season someone is found dirty,; ok then, let's talk about the lifetime bans. But this season, it would be just plain wrong to do so.
  • 4 0
 @Rubberelli: I agree wholeheartedly. Well said that man.
  • 1 3
 @Rubberelli: I agree with you. This is what rule book is for and he should be held responsible for breaking those rules. But there is a difference between such statement and calling him a cheater, doper, just as there is a difference between him and Lance,
  • 2 5
 @Laymo: erm... I just gave you an unique opportunity to realize and acknowledge your own insignificance here, mainly due to your anonymity, which is funny because it makes me wonder what sort of reputation are you hiding behind this empty profile.

Now if Richie, Jared, Loic, Cesar Rojo, Mike Levy, few more folks whose opinion I value, and many more do, if they came here and wrote: “shut up waki, you are full of crap, most of what you say on every subject is totally wrong”, yeah that would be something, it would really hit me. But you? Giving me advice to take care of my family? Because I am sharing the view that we should give Richie the benefit of doubt?
  • 4 2
 Calm down Kangaroo Jack, dude made an honest mistake, made honest apologies to his fans and sponsors, took the penalty without any complaints, came back and continued to dominate. What else do you want Richie to say? The whole "Richie and Jared" are lying thing is such BS to me, the investigators had far more evidence than we can ever speculate and their conclusion is that both athletes are being honest. As fans, the best we can do is move on and enjoy the races and let the top dudes battle it out.
  • 4 0
 @WAKIdesigns: If you can make a convincing argument about something and one of the influential people you mention reads it and changes their mind about something then it proves it was worth it to express your opinion. You sound like the ultimate totalitarian fan boy, worshipping your famous influencers and trying to protect their precious image you have built up in your head, while implying everybody else shouldn't bother having any opinions.

I'm still curious about your instructions to me. What exactly did you mean, and what precisely should I do?

WAKI wrote:
"You are so anonymous for everyone here that you may as well... you know what I mean."
  • 5 2
 @davetrumpore: thanks for sharing Jared’s words. I’ve been following this story and never saw that.
I stand by my belief that these were not acts of cheaters, but ignorance or accidents. All three riders have been tested outside of the EWS previously with no problems. Frankly, I think the accusations people are making here are downright slanderous as it’s based on pure speculation. They call Waki out for being a bully, but don’t see their own bullying behavior. These racers are real people, and, as Jared’s statement shows, people that read comments on Pinkbike and are affected by the hatred spewed by conspiracy theorists. Unless, people have any real facts to offer here, they should realize what their vitriol does to real people.
  • 2 2
 @davetrumpore: Thanks for bringing this onto daylight again.

For the rest of people here, I'm pretty sure Richies riding do the talk again
  • 2 2
 @bok-CZ: unfortunately I doubt it. Some people must bring others down to be able to cope with themselves
  • 2 1
 @WAKIdesigns: So true, however in my point of view, he did a mistake, he has been banned and that´s the rules. That´s all, he is back riding on top and I am sure he will be under focus more than others so all the so clever and informed people here will lost their arguments in few months. Good luck to the riders, all of them.
  • 2 2
 @bok-CZ: he was allowed to compete and scored points which means UCI recognizes him as a clean racer. In the very same way as they recognized him as a cheater last year, when they stripped him from his last years results. So if someone who calls Richie a cheater solely because ?ADA test was positive, and UCI banned him, they should now be quiet. At least if they are to have any integrity and live up to standards they set for Richie.
  • 2 5
 Here's a real fact for Rude, Graves, and all the other short-cutting enduro cheaters: When you get busted for cheating in a visible sport your reputation is going to suffer, you will hurt the reputation of the sport you are competing in, and people will always likely suspect you of cheating on the future. Because of this you will lose sponsorship money and media opportunities, and your reputation will forever be tainted. This is the trade-off for cheating and why professional athletes should go out of their way not to make sure they don't cheat.

The best thing these athletes could do for the reputation of their sport is quit and walk away, because they have been so disingenuous with their excuses and obvious lies that they will always create a certain level of distrust and be suspected of cheating when they do well in races.

Waki, quit pretending you are bros with these guys just cause you got your pic taken with Gwin once. If any of these racers were ever asked about you they would all just think you are the idiot loser who never shuts up on pinkbike.
  • 2 1
 @Laymo: I love the gears going on in your head, how you analyze me and my motives, the research you've made, it really flatters me. Well, since you SEEM to put equal sign between guys like Lance or Pantani (their motives, kind of prosecution as well as kind of stuff they were proven to take for years) and then we have nothing to talk about. You can't solve few moral puzzles, but you are not the only one. According to the logic you stated above, you should stop, since Richie is clean now. if he is as clean as Froome or Cancellara, it's up to you to figure out. Oh, sorry we forgot Martin Maes! But he is people's champion ho dare I? Unless off course, you inherently don't like Richie because as oscar Wilde said... "morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people we personally dislike". You have mistaken morality with patronizing others for not living up to your unspecified moral code, so please do not feel cyberbullied.

Oh, I do hope Ricihie will now write me a mail thanking me for everything, for the support in the comments. You figured me out... not? Why don't you just NOT hahaha Big Grin
  • 5 1
 @Laymo: or maybe time you quite and walked away (you've only been in here a month and seems like you've signed up just to troll this topic). And if not, at least learn the difference between facts and your opinion ;-)
  • 3 1
 @Laymo: yeah because quitters never lose... What a mindset or rather mindf#ck
  • 4 1
 @Laymo: Ever considered going decaf?
  • 1 1
 @davetrumpore: It does amaze me how many people show up just to make racket. What else can be gathered where there are no pictures of themselves, bikes, trips they taken, falls, races they watched or participated in. Perhaps PB needs to set a minimum of sorts? Minimum number of picturers of various things to show they aren't trolls or mal-adjusted 12 year olds.
  • 1 0
 @BDKR: maladjusted 12yr olds? Hah, don’t kid yourself... the reality is far more scary. Go to Facebook and read some shitstorms. You will see people throwing worst racist crap, you go to their profile and find only pics of them hugging their kid and profile pic is from their wedding. And they will not be some white trash meth addicts, they will look like normal people. Anonymity is not the problem
  • 1 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I'm not saying the problem is anonymity. I'm saying it appears that there are people coming to Pinkbike to troll. People that don't appear to have any interest in mountain biking other than talking 5h1t on a forum.

Now perhaps they do, but who can tell when you look at their profile page and it's blank?
  • 2 1
 @BDKR: Agreed, too many anonymous accounts with no accountability. I usually look at people's favorite trails on their profile to figure out if they are legit or if they might be motocrossers, hikers, or road bikers in disguise. There are a lot of obvious road riders faking it as mountain bikers on here for the sole purpose of targeting the sport of mountain biking for elimination. We're under constant attack!
  • 44 2
 Sure pays to know the rules of the sport that you make your livelihood. The part about doping and bans comes off as an appeasement of sorts... which in cycling as a whole is a bit hard to stomach.
  • 15 14
 Yep. The other thing that people need to remember is that while position somewhat matters, a lot of the money is still made from advertising and sponsorship deals, and rider skill is something that doesn't go away. Richie Rude can be banned for a period, come back, take first in the next round, and still command respect and represent Yeti. I don't think its as big of an issue as people are making it seem.
  • 7 10
 @phops: Yeti is undoubtedly selling bikes right now because of Richie Rude. And a lot of fans are closely following the races partly because of Richie... I agree, people are overreacting. The sport doesn't stop moving but some of the fans sure do
  • 3 1
 @gooutsidetoday: I’m not sure, but I might be wrong, people buy bikes through an attachment to a rider. It helps promote a brand, sure, but Rude or no Rude, Yetis would probably sell.

Also, the fact they’re expensive limits the demographic of riders so we’re talking a very small number of people.
  • 37 1
 From the Armstrong doping saga, one of the key takeaways is that all the companies were in on it too. Trek, Nike, the people who ran and sponsored the team, and many officials in the UCI itself – all keen to keep the money flowing by maintaining Lance's position as an American hero. It was in no-one's interest to expose it. While this is much lower-stakes, I can't believe it won't be the same. Pro athletes don't dope all by themselves, they're surrounded by a doping apparatus involving many individuals: pharmacologists, suppliers, trainers, team doctors, and so on. Pro sports is extremely crooked, and I doubt that mountain biking is much different. If it's less morally bankrupt than most mainstream sports, that's probably because it doesn't lend itself to hundred-million-dollar real estate deals and only supports a handful of professionals.
  • 9 0
 @phops: if you race and Some one else cheats guess what , it makes the racing utterly pointless ! That is a big deal when people like to watch racing.
  • 5 1
 @harriieee: Obviously the major difference in ews is that the "team" is 2 dudes who live in a van, and there is not an army of staff like a tdf team. Well funded ews teams may have a team trainer, but there is no "team doctor" or "team nutritionist" or anyone carefully comparing ingredients to wada lists.
  • 1 1
 @dthomp325: The Truth!!!!!
  • 2 2

Im not talking about banning drug test, Im just saying don't take the fact that Rude got penalized as a huge thing that needs addressing. UCI isn't singling out athletes unfairly, or being inconsistent, and athletes who genuinely make mistakes aren't really affected that much by it.
  • 37 2
 Never believe someone that has to tell you it's the "Honest Truth", it's like saying my bike is a great big large!
  • 31 0
 Free gift.
  • 6 3
 I have this weird trait where I smile hugely when I know someone is trying to see if they believe what I’m saying. It’s the darndest thing - I know they see me smiling, knowing the more I smile the less they believe me, all the while I’m actually telling the truth.

Avoid altruisms I say. Even lie-detectors mess up.
  • 2 0
 @jeremiahwas: Ha, I’m so glad to hear I’m not the only one that does this!
  • 2 0
 @ninjatarian: right back at ya!
  • 36 3
 Have you guys watched Icarus? It's on Netflix. You really should.
  • 39 22
 10000% agree. That's why I respect Richie's situation more than Maes. I think a lot of the PB readers should follow road cycling a bit more, Maes "accident" is a textbook scandal in road cycling .. Richie has just sort of taken his licks and moved on...
  • 7 8
 @gooutsidetoday: need to get this comment to the top.
  • 4 1
 Great movie, not what I thought it would be, even 45 minutes into it. Must watch.
  • 5 1
 @gooutsidetoday: please expand on the Maes "accident", I'd like to understand it better. Is it more than a case of emergency medication being administered by an independent third party without verification of the contents?
  • 19 7
 @BenPea: its because murican dude, ritchie can do no wrong because he id the only american racer that is likley to see an ews podium before the sun burns out. thats why someone deliberately taking stimulants isn't as bad as a rider recieving a drug administered be a third party race doctor so he stays alive.
  • 6 5
 @b45her: So your personal view of Rude and America is coloring your view of this?
  • 6 4
 @gooutsidetoday: First off, Maes deserved the ban.

But the thing that makes Maes case relatively believable is the circumstances with a wound and standard NZ medical practice.

It's still a fully justified ban, but considering what we know it's really the most plausible reason.
  • 1 1
 @Ronkol: "Fully deserved the ban". For not doing the admin post-administration?
  • 1 2
 Is it just me, or have the statist showed up on Pinkbike?

@Ronkol: If the Maes case is believable, then perhaps he doesn't deserve the ban.
  • 5 0
 @BDKR: He should have checked afterwards and applied for a TUE, he didn't so he deserved the ban.

And to ram this nail into the table: He did realize this could be a problem, yet didn't follow through.

On deserving or not: I ran a red light a year ago. A honest mistake. Still my fault.
  • 1 0
 @Ronkol: Right! I'll concede that. If he knew it could be a problem and didn't follow through, the ban was the logical outcome.
  • 5 0
 @BDKR: It's the most peculiar thing, which raises some questionmarks.

1. He asked the doctor if it was on the Wada list, the doctor said it would be allowed.
2. He and his manager then tried to verify (i.o.w. they didn't feel certain the doctor was correct). They didn't have data reception, so they couldn't verify.
3. Back at the hotel they somehow forgot the whole thing and didn't check.
4. Then when he was informed that he got "popped" he started to check the medicine and found out it had a banned substance.

But when back from the doctor they didn't follow through... and that's quite stupid. Had he checked immediately and written the UCI he either would have gotten a TUE (Likely) or be asked not to compete. The latter isn't great, but he wouldn't have had a doping infraction.

Maes and his manager clearly messed up as they demonstrated they realized the possible problem. Also, quite reasonable for the UCI/Wada not to allow a TUE in this case. It was literally months later.
  • 4 2
 @Ronkol: or, after failing to get phone reception, they just thought "the doctor's probably right, maybe we're being paranoid" and went about their lives. Not saying this wasn't a mistake, but the reduced ban reflects the reasonable doubt at play. No one is perfect, not even Maes.
  • 1 0
 @Ronkol: As I said before, if there was a procedure here in this case that wasn't followed through, the ban was the logical outcome.
  • 2 0
 @BenPea: I never said he should deserve a 2 year ban? Of course the circumstances were weighted and thus he got a minimum. Seems reasonable.

But I will add in that it's really weird not to check again if you already had doubts. That's not about being paranoid.
  • 1 0
 @Ronkol: Fair play.

It's hard to second guess what went through their minds. Maybe it is weird, I don't know.
  • 27 4
 Remember when the EWS started? They had a zero tolerance policy, one strike and you're banned for life. Oh well.
  • 9 4
 Should add, my comment is one of philosophical irony about how the tables can be turned with the involvement of IOC, UCI and WADA in regards to the irony and quagmire with doping and professional cycling. If there's any mis-understanding, the comment is not directed at the riders as I don't think or believe Richie or Jared or Martin were trying to cheat the system.
  • 5 0
 Lack of understanding of why "zero tolerance" is bad is precisely the reason why things like "spirit of the law" and discretion are so important. The law, without those things becomes unjust.
  • 16 2
 Who knows man. Redbull could easily be covering for their athletes, but who am I to make an assumption? I guess it's the distrust I have of the media that makes me understandably skeptical
  • 2 1
 Distrust of the media... People make media. Distrust all people?
  • 15 1
 You're a professional racing getting paid to race by sponsors.. lifes a bitch. Figure your shit out, it's a profession not a hobby, it's your job to know. All I hear is boooooooooooo hoooooooooo
  • 12 1
 Regardless of which side you're on, I'm surprised Red Bull made a video about this instead of "no comments" since it's their guys that got banned.
  • 11 2
 Not gonna watch this but judging by the comments my reasons for not watching are confirmed. Redbull have no place having an opinion on doping or any rule in this sport and their influence should not be considered by anybody.
  • 1 3
 But by not watching it, you have no idea if Redbull actually shared an opinion. What's going on here (in the comments) is that people are "assuming" that Redbull proper has shared an opinion AS OPPOSED TO allowing riders to share their experience.
  • 12 5
 HAHAHA the honest truth. The truth is yet to come out!!! I know some top level riders are chomping at the bit to enlighten everyone, they are just worried about the backlash!!

One day Richie Rude, the truth will come out and you will get what you deserve!

  • 8 0
 What the f*ck is this excuse-making rubbish?! You're professional athletes - learn the rules. WADA rules have been in force at World Cups for years. Get with the programme.
  • 4 0
 Ach I say were taking it too serious. I think all the riders should get mega drugged up to all ride quick to make for good viewer experience. I mean that's all bike racing is now, isn't it? Viewer experience over rider enjoyment?
  • 6 2
 Get caught with banned substance in your blood. Get banned. Zero tolerence. It couldnt be any simpler and its good for the sport. If it catches out a few unlucky people who made genuine mistakes so be it. Taking a soft approach to doping would make the sport worthless
  • 7 4
 Last time I checked there was no test for re-injecting your own blood and it provides a massive power boost. Unsure why we still have competitive endurance cycling given this fact.

Is there a test now? Plasticizer test was a failure, biological passport was a failure... Is there something new in 2019?
  • 7 1
 It's possible to test for that. You can analyze the red blood cells for age, it's really neat.
  • 2 2
 How about they just look for unauthorized injection sites. If there’s a site and no TUE for an injection then you get sanctioned. Broad enough to cover all injectables and infusions.
  • 3 4
Wonderful! [citation needed].

Last I read about a potential test was this, years away:
  • 3 4
 That’s been tested for for nearly ten years.
  • 11 7
 @vroomvroompartystarter, @heinous

It's great that you believe there is a test. The next step is to provide some evidence that there's a test. This will be difficult, because global anti-doping authorities are continually publishing the fact that there is no test, a claim backed up by this article published this year: :

"historically, it’s been nearly impossible to sniff out so-called autologous or self-transfusions, where an athlete’s blood is drawn well before competition, the red blood cells pulled out, and those cells are transfused back in before go time"

You may be thinking of the test for injecting other people's blood, which was developed to protect babies in utero and is very effective.

It's great that Duke researchers may have a test, and ten years from now if it makes it through clinical trials maybe we can go back and unfreeze samples from 2019 and clean up the sport retroactively.

If you believe I'm mistaken, please post a link to an athlete that has been penalized for autologous transfusions that were discovered by blood testing. (it's never happened)
  • 10 6
 Forgot to add- if you can't find any evidence that a test for autologous transfusions exists, you should instead silently downvote this thread so no one finds out you're mistaken.
  • 4 0
 Looks like there is no autologous test for WADA to use in blood doping detection -

"WADA is funding research projects aimed at developing a test for autologous transfusions."
  • 2 3
 @Mtmw: my test for passive aggressive posting just lit up like Christmas!

I stand corrected, you’re right. It looks like the test picking up autologous doping are actually picking up poorly managed autologous doping where the re-infused blood plasma carries traces that give it away.
  • 4 0
 @heinous: All good. I expect people who argue on the internet are friends on the trail. Means I should post less and ride more.
  • 4 0
 You'd think that RedBull with all the professional athletes they sponsor should be able to provide some training with doping rules. Awesome mountainbiking but the twist to the video is a bit weird.
  • 4 0
 how do advertisers think a video like this would fly without the mandatory skepticism that would comes with the topic?
  • 2 0
 I think they should all dope... make it like the Running Man. I bet most of the doping is in the 40 and over crowd..probably a bunch on the juice. ... I mean.. look at Karim Amour.... dope..cough dope....
  • 11 8
 Can we forget about the obvious comments about doping and appreciate those drone shots of stage five. MTBing is sick!
  • 4 0
 Nike want their ad back.
  • 5 5
 Richie has been crushing DH and Enduro races since his early teens. I have zero doubt that he was clean then, and still is today. Did he mess up somehow? Apparently. Is he crushing races again? F- Ya! Glad to see him back on the podium!
  • 2 0
 The title of the video is very dishonest because it tries to set an unconscious bias. This is what should be called an opinion piece.
  • 3 0
 Drugs are cool bring on the super athletes. I wanna see cyborgs
  • 1 0
 That first shot of Greg in the start sequence makes him look like the Emperor!
  • 2 1
 Anyone using doping for sports or either any kind of drugs in his social life is a fucking loser in my book.-
  • 2 0
 EWS and whats left of the zero tolerance policy...
  • 1 0
 Really enjoy the On Track series. Not so much the arm chair debate below it though lol
  • 1 0
 Anyway, cool vid in terms of the footage and racing :-)
  • 1 1
 Rude is still a boss and an amazing rider. Don't care what anyone else says.
  • 5 5
 Gonna make me stop watching EWS. UCI sucks balls.
  • 2 3
 Got my tin hat and pocket full of magic beans after reading this comment section..... Holy shit
  • 1 2
 Deadlifts are terrible for your body. I'm shocked that Greg is doing them. The NFL no longer does them.
  • 1 3
 Rude is dominating the series right now, the only reason I honestly don't think he was cheating is because he just doesn't need to.
  • 3 4
  • 8 9
 Usa is cáncer of the planet!!!!
  • 3 3
 @gforcedh: OBVIOUSLY I'm joking my friend. I recommend that you please smoke joints (at least 2) and then wait 35mins before commenting, please and thanks.
  • 3 3
 @Dudeclimbsrocks: hahahaha I will and you snif whyt dust to replay war Man kill kill kill like you love to say o sorry USA USA USA sad!!!
  • 5 3
 @gforcedh: Yeah.... Kind of like the way the UK was "cancer of the planet" before, and Spain before that, and on and on.

And let's not forget that the start of the English Empire was founded in theft on the high seas by crown supported pirates.

And it was Churchill that was the root cause of Canakale / Gallipoli that killed well north of 130K men.

And how many were slaughtered on the African continent during English campaigns?

And how much wealth was stolen from India when it was subjugated to the UK?

And how many died / how much wealth was stolen by the British as a result of the Opium wars?

The truth is that if the English Empire hadn't exhausted itself during WWII, it would still be up to it's shenanigans!

So go on being a ignorant self righteous troll. At least us FREE Americans understand how to shrug of a yoke. ;-)

Dudes like you will always die on your knees.
  • 2 1
 @BDKR: come on man, imagine a world without international cricket!
  • 1 1
 @BenPea: ROFL!!!!!
  • 1 1
 @BDKR: am not inglish hahahhahahah I live hier only hahahahha
  • 1 2
 @BDKR: you just a sad usa trump soporte hahahahha
  • 2 1
 @gforcedh: Oh... So you're an invader. I understand now. It all makes sense.
  • 2 1
 @BDKR: this escalated quickly eh?
  • 2 1
 @Dudeclimbsrocks: Yeah...., but it's fun poking jabs at socialist murders.

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