Video: The Ochain Chainring Spider Promises Chainless Performance

Mar 31, 2020
by Fabrizio Dragoni  

PRESS RELEASE: Ochain.bike

Ochain is a new brand born to let you experience new riding possibilities. We want you to have chainless feeling on your bike... With your chain on.

Credits Alex Luise
Ochain with E-thirteen direct mount setup

bigquotesWhen everyting started it was September 2014, I was staring at the monitor, watching the UCI WorldCup in Hafjell, just like a typical downhill rider and fan.

When Mulally had his incredible chainless ride, my inner nerd and engineer started to ruminate “What sort of advantage could come from this situation for the rider or for his bike?”

One year later, nearly the same thing happened again in front of me, with Aaron Gwin winning in Leogang: Chainless.
Fabrizio Dragoni, Ochain Ceo and Mtb engineer and rider

Credits Marco Piffari

Ochain is an active spider, fully mechanical and fitting most cranksets on the market thanks to the use of the most commonly used direct mount chainring standards.

Ochain automatically isolates the transmission from suspension when needed, resulting in the absence of pedal kickback. This allows smoother and comfortable riding, great braking performance, tyre and rim preservation and much more. Ochain engages the chainring steadily while pedaling, thus making the transmission similar to the standard one.


bigquotesCompromise must be expected as contemporary mountain bikes are inevitably a byproduct: pedal kickback is one of the consequences, affecting rear suspension performance, despite the best engineers’ efforts.

Considering the setup possibilities, there is no “right” or “wrong”, but the need for a real understanding of what makes things flow at their best.

Loris Revelli knows this track like the back of his gloves. A 5th place TT shows he does mean business in the coming days.
Ochain has been developed with the help of UCI World Cup downhill riders like Loris Revelli and Simone Medici and is currently being tested by some others big names in mtb, but we can't reveal who they are...


Ochain Pregio Sram
Finally free from chain limitations, your bike can now seamlessly transfer bumps and shocks from your pedals to your suspension.

Use and performance:

Should you just throw out of the window your 120 points of engagement hub? Absolutely not, on the contrary. With Ochain you can decide how many degrees (by replacing our elastomers) always maintaining a smooth and silent pedal engagement.

Ochain is a new component for mtb setups. One can decide whether to use it in its different configurations or not; we are eager to see how the mtb world will receive it.
Ochain can be used from your downhill machine to your low travel trail bike, from enduro race bike to XC race full bike. See our first on-field suggestions in the chart below:

OCHAIN degrees indication

Compatibility:

Ochain is located in a formerly unoccupied area of the bike where there isn't tons of space available. We contrived to reduce the component size in order to fit most standard mtb frames, like the biggest carbon frames with a BB30 pressfit standard. As for a downhill chainguide, there are some products that have to be adjusted in order to be used with Ochain.

Ochain is 52mm chainline Boost only (we are working on superboost standard) and requires a bdc 104 chainring standard. Fit from 30t to 36t chainrings on market.

Sram, Raceface, Ethirteen and Ingrid are available for both models.We are working to add other standards, available soon on our webstore.

Prices and availability:

• Ochain Nero is offered at 298€ (including Titanium Nuts +VAT)
• We are offering our customers the opportunity to purchase Ochain as well as Ochain Titanium Nut and Carbon-Ti chainrings as a ready-to-ride kit. Discover all versions on “ochain.bike/product”.
• Ochain should have been available on our website in Europe starting from March 2020, but unfortunaly this new situation of the coronavirus has forced us to temporarily stop production. We plan to reopen the store from June 2020. Pre-orders available on our webshop .

More info about Ochain and where to buy:
Ochain shop: www.ochain.bike/ochain-products
Ochain information: www.ochain.bike/technical-support

Credits Alex Luise
Ochain kit with Titanium nuts and Carbon-Ti chainring

If this newsletter has made you willing to ride your mtb in a chainless version, we suggest you should make a quick test: remove your chain!

Ochain suggest remove your chain



262 Comments

  • 166 5
 she don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie...ochain.
  • 11 38
flag PHeller (Mar 31, 2020 at 13:33) (Below Threshold)
 obscurest reference ever.
  • 17 1
 @PHeller: obscure and funny AF. Weird thing is I read it the first time with the melody in my head.
  • 37 0
 Thanks a lot this is better than:

"Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
Turn and face the strange
Ch-ch-chainless"

David Bowie
  • 5 0
 Ocha-ain, runnin’ all through my brain
  • 10 1
 ochain ochaingang ochaingang, ooh Spend ten racks on a new chain, My bitch love do cocaine, ooh
  • 47 0
 Today I learned PB considers Eric Clapton "obscure". Yeesh, I feel super old now.
  • 10 0
 @ScandiumRider: Might have been referring to JJ Cale...
  • 18 1
 @Christofferdurietz:

Loaded like an O-Chain
Flyin' like an airplane
Feelin' like a space brain
One more time tonight

-Boost Axle Rose
  • 2 0
 @TW80:

You say...
I talk so all the time...
Tso... chain.

Hot Tub Time Machine.
  • 1 0
 @pathawks: Fair point.
  • 3 1
 @PHeller: A lot of people know Clapton man...dated ref maybe, but not obscure.
  • 18 0
 Driving that train, high on Ochain....
  • 18 1
 @ScandiumRider:

@greener1:

It should be noted, that while Clapton is known for it, it was not Clapton's song. He licensed it from JJ Cale, as well as other songs: After the Midnight, Everything will be alright, They call me the breeze. Clapton made it famous though, as JJ Cale was never long for the spotlight.
Quoted in an interview he was asked does it ever make him upset that Clapton is famous and rich in part from a lot of his songs. Cale responded: "I make our pretty damn good from the royalty checks and can still go to the grocery store without the paparazzi."

Im a huge fan of JJ Cale, he's got some cool licks to him and in part inspired me to learn guitar. Just a little rock and roll trivia for ya all.

More to the point, "she don't lie..ochain" comment is gold.
  • 5 0
 Kyle Strait, Big Mouth theme song edition:

"IIIIIIIIIII'mmm gooooooing through chainnnnsssses"
  • 1 0
 ..
  • 8 1
 I'm getting strong B.S. vibes from this. like the idea probably makes some sense but it's far too close to April fools for this to be serious
  • 4 0
 And if you don't love me now You will never love me again I can still hear you saying You would never break ochain
  • 2 0
 Hopefully they will come down in price cause €300 is crazy looks a great piece of kit though
  • 1 0
 @johnnygolucky: what a dude.
  • 82 1
 Neat. But god do I hate robot voice-overs of press-release copy that sounds like it might be either translated from another language or just over-the-top marketing-speak from some outside marketing consultant...or maybe both.
  • 88 0
 "Need a pedal stroke? Your transmission is naturally engaged by O-Chain to an instinctive action, suddenly revealing the universal pedaling mood…whether you like it or not."

Hoah boy that's rough.
  • 23 1
 "Bike, body, and mind are thankful and preserved"
  • 13 1
 @big-red: I thought it was tongue in cheek TBH
  • 13 1
 you're being way too nice. This is the PB comments section and that video just... sucked
  • 2 1
 No mater what that is a copy of the system created by Frank Day at PowerCranks.
  • 6 0
 I can hear the 0s and 1s in "its" voice.
  • 5 1
 @bradn104: You will assimilate......
  • 1 0
 I liked the video, it was the audio that wasn't so great. But I'm going to say I would also use another 'voice' if I wasn't a good speaker of the language. In fact, those trails looked great.
  • 4 0
 Its Italian and much like the ridiculous Pinarello video for their defunct MTB line...
  • 1 0
 @big-red: made me wonder whether this was posted a day early. Could easily be an April fools video
  • 60 1
 Good thing they’re not putting this press release out tomorrow. No one would be able to separate it from the usual April fools news report
  • 6 0
 Actually they should of release it tomorrow. It would throw PBers in the a tizzy. lol.
  • 4 0
 Is this real?
  • 2 0
 @BenPea: Looks totally legit. Check out their website.
  • 5 0
 I was a 1/4 through the video and I thought, April fools but then looked at their website and am now blown away that this is what it is! Pretty cool!
  • 2 0
 @tacklingdummy: there is bunch of discussion on the mechanic forum about how this product actually does nothing.
  • 2 0
 Is this product a joke or not ?
  • 4 0
 There I was watching it on Wednesday morning UK time, it was tagged "today", and I was just thinking "for an April fool's this almost looks like it could work".
  • 1 0
 @cmcrawfo: But have they tried it in real world conditions? It may work. I'd like to see a legitimate real world testing review before making assumptions.
  • 58 1
 Soo, like REVGRIPS for your crank?
  • 49 2
 They really should have called it the Game Chain-ger
  • 12 39
flag OchainFactory (Mar 31, 2020 at 14:07) (Below Threshold)
 hope it doesn't become Game China-ger
  • 37 1
 I really want to get in line to hate on this thing, and I understand all the haters. The problem is I broke a hub on top of a 3000' descent in 2017 and had to take the chain off the bike to get down. It was incredible. 120mm felt like a DH bike. I have wanted that experience back ever since. Switchable freewheel hubs, high pivot, you name it. Once you've experienced it, you put a chain back on your bike and hate every second of it. You can't feel pedal feedback till you've felt its absence. Anyone who has never taken their chain off is hating out of pure ignorance. Think of the 'gimmick' hate that dropper posts inspired. Try before you cry
  • 17 1
 now you too belong to the group of illuminati! Hope to meet you personally and give you one gold Ochain :-)
  • 2 0
 That sounds amazing. Kind of want to pull my chain off and try a test with and without. I get excited with these new ideas even if sometimes they're more "hype" than anything. This could be something really special.
  • 6 0
 @DylanH93: do it. You can get these whipperman quick links that are rated for reuse, expensive at $20 but worth it if you have access to the right climb. To get to the top and take the chain and put it in your pack. I'm not kidding, really try this. It's not a little placebo thing or a cranky old man thing like oval chainrings or suspension grips. It's like riding a completely different bike. I had a single pivot evil and all of a sudden it just wanted to fly. Pay special attention to how high speed chop like braking bumps feel at, say, 25+ mph.
  • 11 0
 @OchainFactory: look I'm your target market and your target customer. The only reason I'm not parked on a waiting list is you don't support my Shimano crankset interface yet but hell I might even buy a new crankset to make it work.

Having said all of that, please hear me when I say That Video Sucks and it's hurting your case.
  • 3 0
 I feel the same , going down without a chain IS thé best feeling ever
  • 7 0
 Replace the smallest gear in the cassette with a smooth washer
  • 2 0
 @nfontanella: any idea how to tear apart a pinned cassette?
  • 2 0
 @Mtmw: uhhh grind the teeth off lol
  • 2 0
 Holy shit wow! @nfontanella:
  • 28 0
 Inb4 R-M-R comments about how this literally does nothing because there's no such thing as pedal kickback, or something like that.
  • 40 0
 Dammit.
  • 20 0
 If Dragoni & Capfinger don’t disrupt the industry they can always go back to being Bond villains.
  • 19 0
 @WasatchEnduro: No Mr. Bond, I expect you to PEDAL!
  • 4 1
 Yeah, I love the theory that PK is canceled due to rear wheel moving fast... And yet you can see how much this is moving!
  • 2 0
 @R-M-R: now what
  • 30 0
 You had me at ‘titanium nuts’.
  • 5 0
 Dick Pound has them too
  • 24 0
 So will it defeat the purpose of high engagement points?
  • 26 1
 I thought so at first, but let's consider my XT hub with 36 points of engagement (POE) That's relatively low compared to some fancy hubs out there and it could have anywhere from 0-10 degrees of float before catching that next point of engagement when the suspension moves. However, between that 0 and 10 degrees, it will be different every time depending on how close the pawl is to the next tooth in the hub at that particular moment.

If you replaced my XT hub with an Industry Nine Hydra, you'd have only 0.5degrees between POEs, which results in a lot less variation than with the XT hub. Now add this O-Chain device and suddenly you have consistent forgiveness. The hub is consistently engaging right away and the O-Chain has a consistent amount of travel before engaging. If we imagine the rotation on the O-Chain is 10 degrees, then we've recreated the maximum forgiveness in the XT hub, but without any chance of it being less than 10 degrees.

I'm not saying I care. I'm perfectly happy with my reliable old XT hub. I'm just saying that I could see why, if this mattered to someone, a high POE hub plus this device would be better than a low-POE hub without this device.
  • 22 5
 I'm getting the feeling this o-chain has the same effect as having few engagement points on your hub
  • 8 6
 we have mastered the suspension kinematics, take any bike from this day in age, slam it on the floor, the cranks don't move. Take a bike from 15 years ago and do the same thing, watch the pedals fucking fly!
  • 9 9
 @big-red: That was a long way of saying yes.
  • 2 0
 Seems like it's effectively similar to a pinion gearbox, which only has 16 points of engagement at the bottom bracket. Pair the gearbox with a super high engagement hub and you still only have 22.5 degree engagement. Good for suspension feel. Bad for ratcheting.
  • 6 0
 @Fix-the-Spade: Just the opposite. It will be different and better for the stated goal when combined with a high POE hub. The question is how many people are concerned with the stated goal.
  • 2 0
 @BoneDog: yep. my old Foes Weasel would pedal backwards on a bumpy fire road!
  • 7 0
 @big-red: You wrote this would make a high engagement hub consistently behave like the longest possible engagement of a low engagement hub. Except that's wrong, this thing moves about in it's 'travel' with the suspension action, so when you go from coasting to pedalling it could give you anything from 10 degress to no degrees before engaging. It undermines the point of having a fast hub. It had better do some kind of black magic to suspension performance or it's an expensive way to make a bike worse.
  • 6 1
 @Fix-the-Spade, @big-red:

Gentlemen, you're both correct! One addition to Fix-the-Spade's thinking, though: the rider will not initiate pedaling during a kickback event, as it would be a big impact, so the Ochain device would be at its neutral position when the rider initiates pedaling. This means Ochain with a fast engaging hub produces a more predictable engagement. Whether this is better than simply having faster engagement - possibly at the expense of occasional, minor kickback - is an open question ... or just saving money, weight, and complexity by replacing the Ochain with a hub with slow engagement and dealing with the inconsistency of the rotation prior to engagement.
  • 16 0
 @R-M-R: "the rider will not initiate pedaling during a kickback event," you underestimate the wonkiness of my technique Big Grin
  • 14 0
 @Fix-the-Spade: Make something foolproof and someone will build a better fool! Wink
  • 4 2
 @big-red: thanks for your perfect explanation. Probably if you tried an Ochain you would change your mind about your xt hub. Who knows...
  • 4 2
 @BoneDog: are you sure? We test and ride modern bike with standard hubs, not 15 years ago bike :-)
  • 3 0
 @BoneDog: I take pawls out of my hubs to reduce pedal kickback seems to work. Are you saying this will make a high engagement hub work like a low engagement hub in the pedal kick department?
  • 2 1
 @toast2266: I thinks as you. They are triing to sell a product that have more cons than pros.
  • 1 0
 @R-M-R: or a brag clutch instead of pawls
  • 3 0
 @BoneDog: you are sure ??. most popular enduro bikes today have shitloads of PKBCK... unless you have a knolly.
  • 1 0
 No, not really.
  • 20 1
 Everyone on PB is so negative!! I've seen so many ideas bashed on the comment sections from 650b to dropper posts!! You can look at all the data you like, but if you ride a bike in the bikepark half the day and then ride half the day without a chain, there is a noticeable difference in how active or plush the rear suspension is, from DW link to Maestro to VVP. Not one person has tried it and all the )experts) write it off before it's even started. I love the mountain bike community, but for some reason, there all d$%ks in the comments section. Stay safe and positive everyone!!!
  • 1 0
 You are so right man! So many smart guys “bike experts” they think they are... the kind of guys that where saying disc brakes not needed and would bend. If it was up to the. We Would still riding 120mm fork bikes haha. Classic keyboard haters
  • 17 5
 Only 298 euros? Oh, come on, you can do better.
  • 22 1
 For small scale manufacturing the price is ok.
  • 4 0
 Usually with you on this but the machining looks quality, definitely looks like a top quality product in a number of axel sizes in small batches. If it works it’s money well spent.
  • 1 0
 you're forgetting the tax on top of that. UK would be 20%
  • 5 0
 This is more impressive to me than overpriced $300 SRAM single piece cassettes (no offense, I know it works great, I just don’t agree with it). If I understand this correctly ochain could replace entire suspension platforms built around pedal kickback with simpler designs.
  • 3 0
 How good and long can you feed a bulgarian family for such a sum?
  • 4 0
 @softsteel: My monthly salary is 330 Eur, so you can get the picture.
  • 2 0
 @Boyan1984: yes indeed... Courage brother! Wink
  • 8 1
 This all assumes that the benefits of riding chainless are in the interactions with suspension. Maybe they're in the fact that the riders knew they had to carry speed so laid of the brakes far more than their typical instincts told them to? Maybe the difference was in their heads, not their bikes.
  • 5 0
 Blind tests exist for a reason!
  • 8 1
 Wanna try that so bad. Own my first single pivot Kona for a year now and I can still feel that kickback that everyone swears they don't notice and it bugs the crap out of me.
  • 11 5
 This is nothing other than snake oil.
What people does not seem to understand is that when rolling, the travel-induced rotation of the rear hub has to exceed the rotational velocity difference between the freehub and the hub. I did some quick maths and a 100mm bump at only 10km/h (heavy hit/slow speed = worst case scenario) wil generate a rotatonal velocity almost 5 times smaller than the allready rolling freehub (this is even with the assumption of a 0 degree engagement hub). Ergo, the rotation induced from the travel will never get fast enough to exceed the speed difference between the hub and freehub. IT DOES NOT WORK

When pedaling on rough ground, the elastomer is fully compressed anyway, and the system behaves as if it was not there.
Super heavy hits with close to zero speed (bender sender), could benefit from this. Or if you prefer diving into rock guardens with your rear wheel locked.
  • 3 0
 This shows the calculation on a Norco Sight frame. The numbers do not lie.
i.imgur.com/h7vFb9k.jpg
  • 3 0
 finaly someone descbribed what i was thinking long time ago Smile pedal kickback myth :-) thx!
  • 1 3
 @S851: The big question is: the cranks during impact stay horizontal? There is another movement caused by rider body that cause an extra rotation of the cranks? if yes, which movement does it take?

During testing we noticed that the cranks under impact want to rotate in the same direction as pedaling, due to the greater load given by the pedal in the forward position.
In this case you have to add an extra speed to the chain and the result is pedal kickback phenomena. It depends on riding style but we have seen that all our riders have experienced the same behavior.

there is another phenomenon related to the motions of the bike in the xy plane that adds extra speed to the chain, I am preparing a video to show it.

I hope I have been clear :-)
  • 1 1
 @tarjei: So then according to your comment, in virtually all riding situations due to the velocity rate difference between the hub and free hub, and that the suspension only reacts against the freehub’s rotational velocity.... you’re saying that the suspension movement is unable to compound the rotational velocity of the free hub enough to overcome the differences between hub and free hub? Therefore PK is virtually non existent in the first place? Just shooting from the hip I’m going to disagree. Seems to me that it depends upon the speed you’re going which influences the speed of the hub in relation to the free hub.
  • 1 1
 Go ride without your chain and you'll see why this has potential... I brok mine and had to ride chainless and it was like I was on a cloud!
  • 1 1
 Are you the same guy that insisted that 1080p TV's were no different to the human eye than old fashioned TV's? Look at the graph, if you are closer than 6 feet you'll never notice, waste of money! And then people with human eyes took a look and immediately noticed a huge improvement and the entire planet went out and bought 1080p flat tv's? You sound like that guy. You haven't tried, but you made a graph that convinces you this is wrong.

As someone else noted, you failed to account for the weight of the rider on the pedals in your Norco calculations. Unless your sight can ghost ride, that's a pretty big thing to leave out, no?

I have also done a chainless (mild) downhill run and was amazed at the smoothness, it really is awesome. I didn't make a graph, but you should still try it.
  • 1 0
 @OchainFactory:
The phenomenon you are describing is not something I can relate to. Neither can the different testers in Pinkbikes Field tests the last couple of years. (Notice how the cranks stay almost surprisingly still during landing)
youtu.be/NMq2p12RkTk (2019 Pinkbike Field Test Huck to flat)
youtu.be/V1XYCVJt3VE (2020 Pinkbike Field Test Huck to flat)
For the sake of the argument, let's assume that this phenomenon persists; when landing from a drop, the cranks rotate. Why on earth is this not mentioned once on your website, your marketing or this press release? By not addressing my initial (data-driven) claims, you basically admitted that I am indeed correct about the scenario I was describing. It seems strange that your only expressed motivation behind the product is based entirely on the wrong premise.
  • 1 0
 @fattyheadshok: I encourage you to do your own calculations. I'll gladly change my view if you can prove me wrong. Accusations shot from the hip cannot compete with data-driven findings, sadly.

I will, however, try to address your points:
"Seems to me that it depends upon the speed you’re going which influences the speed of the hub in relation to the free hub."
This is correct in some situations. Scenarios such as drops and huck-to-flats where the "speed of the frame travel" mostly correlates to the vertical height of the drop, and not the horizontal speed you're travelling, potential PK is very speed dependent. If you have close to zero forward speed and do a high enough drop, you will experience PK.

However, when you hit a "square edge bump" at speed, the "speed of the frame travel" directly (-ish) correlates to the forward speed, and the speed you are traveling at, cancels out of the equation, leaving only height of the bump and frame kinematics as variables that can influence potential PK.

Does this make sense?
  • 1 0
 @nonameuser: The graph only illustrates a semi-circle and an edge. It is not the evidence I am providing. If you feel intimidated by the axis and numbers on the graph you are reffering to, you can make your own illustration. Draw a circle and a rectangle in front of it. Wasn't so hard, was it? If you would actually look at the numbers in the spreadsheet, the numbers that actually proved ochains claim wrong, you are welcome to back up your claims with evidence.
  • 8 0
 So your chainring is floating and suspended by elastomers? Yeah, that's a terrible idea.
  • 7 0
 Thank you PB for posting something people can argue about. The viewers needed that.
  • 6 15
flag RoadStain (Mar 31, 2020 at 14:35) (Below Threshold)
 "Thank you PB for posting something people can argue about. The viewers needed that." - you could not be more wrong, jerk!!!!
  • 5 1
 The chain tension would still impead the action of the rear suspension. Not the same as chainless. I've run chainless at Whistler and the difference is amazing. This looks like a freewheel at the front. Good idea but not the same as running a bike with out a chain.
  • 8 2
 I mean.... sounds like a problem 99.99% of us wouldn't notice during a ride/with modern suspension designs.
  • 15 2
 ...until your first chainless ride!
  • 6 2
 Am I understanding this right. This is for people that bought expensive high POE hubs that don't like how it feels? I think my DTs with 36 POE works out to about the same, no?
  • 13 1
 First - I feel I may say this a lot - kickback *while coasting* is almost nonexistent: it can occur only on a few bikes, in certain sprockets, on severe hits, not very frequently, and - in the unlikely event it actually happens - it may not be problematic or even perceptible.

With that out of the way, yes, it's similar to a low engagement hub. The difference: if a hub has, say, 10° engagement, the actual rotation to engage could be anywhere from 10° to 0°, with the average rotation to engagement being 5°. If Ochain works as promised - in the unlikely event coasting kickback even occurs - the rotation to engage should be consistent.
  • 10 1
 @R-M-R: I think the "coasting" bit is the primary issue here. When coasting, I either don't notice or don't care. It's pedal kickback while grinding up a hill that's the absolute worst, and this won't help that at all.
  • 2 0
 @R-M-R: I've felt pedal kickback before on my old DH bike that had a high-ish pivot point, but only when riding truly steep, rocky terrain where you're going slow trying not to die.
  • 1 1
 @R-M-R: You are correct, however; this would place more relevance to a racer, as you typically will always be in a gear your able to out power down with. The amount of pedal kickback is also a key roll here. Reality is, this thing WILL work. The obvious question here is, reliability, and will "the rider" enjoy the feel. Most racers (in downhill) have removed the lower guide pully on their chain guides to allow the section of chai below the chainstay to grow more than the section of chain above. This creating a slight rearward rotation of the free hub, and allowing for better small bump compliance.
  • 6 0
 Explodo: This is why I specify coasting kickback. When coasting, the reason you don't notice it could be because there's little to nothing for you to notice.

hamncheez: A high kickback bike taking a big hit at a very low speed is the situation that could produce coasting kickback.

jomacba: It will work ... if there's anything for it to work on. One thing it will definitely do is create a delay in drivetrain engagement, which could be more problematic than kickback (or the lack thereof). Removal of the lower pulley on a chainguide does not prevent kickback.
  • 2 0
 @R-M-R: Yes, your correct. It does not prevent kickback. What it does do however, is makes it less pronounced.
I will agree in the sense that this will create a delay in drivetrain engagement, which would ultimately be the tradeoff.
It will work on any bike that sees significant drive side chain growth.
Dont get me wrong here, I'm not advocating this product, as I believe that its subjective, I'm simply agreeing with the fact it will do what it's designed to do. Reality is pedal kickback is real, and given the circumstances it can be almost non existent, to more pronounced.
  • 7 0
 @jomacba: Coasting kickback can only occur when chainstay elongation "takes up" chain faster than the spinning rear wheel can "spool out" chain. On most bikes, in most sprockets, most of the time, this cannot occur and coasting kickback is not possible. In some circumstances, it can happen, but it may not be sufficient to be perceptible, let alone problematic.

If you've seen the kickback simulations on Linkage software, this assumes zero forward motion and instantaneous drivetrain engagement. Add forward motion when coasting and kickback mostly disappears. Add a delay in hub engagement and it fully disappears on most bikes, most of the time. The opportunity for Ochain to do anything at all is limited, let alone the opportunity to do anything of significance.
  • 3 0
 @R-M-R: I posted this below but I'm 100% in agreeement with you here on pedal kick back not really being a thing at speed.

Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't part of the suspension performance improvement when riding chainless coming from the removal of the derailler spring tension - especially with clutch mechs? This system and 'ghost cogs' only solve the pedal kickback part of the issue - which at any speeds above walking and with non silly POE hubs I'm dubious the existence off about anyway...
  • 4 0
 @HommeDeBatte:

I'll take your statement further and say that on many bikes, coasting kickback isn't a thing *at all*. On some bikes, in some circumstances, it's occasionally a minor thing.

Regarding the influence of the clutch:

1. Notice how there's a little movement before the clutch mechanism stops chain movement. On most bikes, this is enough to absorb small to medium impacts, which are most common. On some bikes, large hits will force the clutch to move.

2. Compare the breakaway energy required to move a derailleur clutch to the energy of an impact.

As you can see, the influence of the clutch is extremely small. Not literally zero, but close enough to not worry about it.
  • 1 0
 @R-M-R: I don't know if "kickback" is the correct technical term or something else, but take your chain off and spend a day at the bike park and you'll notice the suspension is significantly more responsive. I've done a couple of chainless downhill races on different bikes, and it's quickly apparent that the chain tension impedes suspension action whether you're pedaling or not. Seriously, spend 10 minutes on your bike without a chain and I guarantee you'll feel a big difference. Perhaps it's not the same force you are calculating, but in some form or another chain tension makes a very significant difference on suspension action. I think this is a really cool ideal and I'd love to test ride a bike with this.
  • 3 1
 @R-M-R: If there is no kickback while coasting, why does this thing move in the vid when the guy is coasting?
  • 1 1
 @HommeDeBatte: do you rrally think a piddly little spring in your rear mech can resist riding force? No, it's chain tension. I've ridden enough older bikes (especially mid 00s dh bikes, some with suspect designs) to know what real pedal kickback is, and it's most definitely from the chain pulling the chainring backwards, as the effective length of the chain stay increases, its like shortening the chain, and the rear hub going through its travel will have more force acting on it than one of your feet standing on the pedal, meaning it wins, but that force from you will do something to resist the suspension movement, which is why chain less is great for suspension (also to do with anti squat values being reliant on having a chain)
  • 6 6
 @R-M-R: with our atlete (downhilll worldcup level) on some tracks we removes 3/6 seconds on 2 min track... You call this "not significance"? Come on, you don't know what you're talking about.
  • 5 0
 @dthomp325: I understand the sensation and I'm not denying it. The source is difficult to pin down.

The physics of the situation simply don't support kickback being a significant factor, if at all. Nor the derailleur clutch.

When riding chainless, I notice two things:

1. It's so quiet! I don't hear the chain and I don't feel it through my feet as it slaps the frame.
2. I know I can't pedal my way out of a mistake, so I ride more carefully and smoothly. This definitely explains some of the effect - for me, at any rate.

Maybe one or both of these things is sufficient to explain the sensation of smoothness.
  • 7 1
 @OchainFactory: I'm sure your athlete has gone faster, but is it consistent? Is that the average improvement?

I've asked you in the past to discuss the physics of the situation and you haven't responded. I'm still interested in your response. I'll state it again, if you like: When a coasting rear wheel is "spooling out" chain faster than the elongation of the chainstay is "taking up" chain, how can kickback occur?
  • 3 3
 @R-M-R: Your statement of "Coasting kickback can only occur when chainstay elongation "takes up" chain faster than the spinning rear wheel can "spool out" chain." Is 100% correct. And this does occur. I for one have experienced that. The idler pully on bikes is designed with this in mind. So your telling me that every engineer that has real world data from world class racers, and major suspention companies backing them up are wrong? Fox had to custom valve the DHX2 for the Supreme DH. Once again, I agree to a certain extent that your statement rings true in a subjective term, but it's been proven that drivetrain has significant effects on suspention performance. This was the main basis behind Zerode.
I'm sorry sir, but agree to disagree on this one.
  • 2 1
 @R-M-R: Okay, back to the Strider for you!
  • 4 0
 @lkubica: An interesting question. As I've said, coasting kickback can occasionally occur on some bikes, in some sprockets, on large impacts. It's possible some of this movement is real kickback. Or maybe it's not. Not entirely clear. The bikes in the video don't have especially high kickback.

Another possibility is the inertial force of the chain: when the wheel goes up, the chain wants to stay down. This is the same force that causes a derailleur without clutch to move and could have a similar effect on the Ochain device.
  • 5 0
 @jomacba: We don't need to agree to anything. I invite you to do the math for yourself. I have and that's how I came to my conclusions. I didn't just make it up, it's based on calculations. If I've made an error, please help me find it.

This is not exactly the reason for the Zerode designs. Bikes with high pivots and idlers are trying to simultaneously achieve their anti-squat goals (which are no different from current designs) with a more rearward axle path and/or less kickback. The kickback in question could be kickback while pedaling, which absolutely is a real issue, or kickback while coasting, which would be severe with such a high pivot, if not for the idler.
  • 4 0
 @jomacba: No, R-M-R is right, kcickback can't happen when coasting. He say on "most of the bikes". I'd say only a few riders in the world can produce an impact big enough to feel kickback when coasting. shaft speeds required are too high.
BUT
There is only a small amount of time when riding spent coasting.and when you do, there is only a few times when you also need your suspensions to be active.
Most of the time spent on the bike will be at lower speed, either pedaling or braking. Both of these situations creating kickback.
Removing the chain help fastening the rebound of the bike when braking. That improve greatly the rear wheel traction when needed the most.
I don't know how this "ochain" system works, or how much it improve anything, tho.
  • 4 0
 @faul: Hey! Now I have to start defending the "kickback is real" crowd!

Coasting kickback CAN happen when coasting, it just takes a bike with extreme chainstay growth, certain combinations of sprockets, a severe impact, and essentially instantaneous drivetrain engagement. It's not common, but it CAN happen on some bikes! The next question is whether it's a *problem*, in the event it actually happens.
  • 1 0
 I honestly don’t know what impact “chainless” riding would have and I imagine it vary greatly from bike to bike, if it is more than a feeling. However, with all the advanced telemetry and suspension measurement tools available now, you would think there would be a way to quantify the difference between chain/no chain riding.
  • 5 3
 @R-M-R: There are other phenomena besides pedal kickback, some of which are very significant. Such phenomena cannot be canceled even with the idler pulley system, but with Ochain yes. But at the moment I can't give you a technically infallible answer and above all I'm not able to try it. What I can tell you is the same as I wrote above: let's take away the seconds. If the virus crown had not canceled the first world cup race some big names would have used it in the race.

I am working on a video in order to explain better all.

See you soon. Peace and love. And watch out for the Coronavirus. It is an ugly beast.
  • 1 1
 @R-M-R: Perhaps once mistake in your calculations is assuming the rear wheel is spinning at the same speed as the bike is traveling forward, which is not necessarily accurate when the wheel hits an obstacle. For example if you watch the Pinkbike huck-to-flat slow-mo you'll notice the wheels come to a complete stop (or close it) when they impact the ground and don't resume spinning until after the suspension has compressed.
  • 8 0
 @OchainFactory: "There are other phenomena besides pedal kickback, some of which are very significant. Such phenomena cannot be canceled even with the idler pulley system, but with Ochain yes."

There is nothing phenomena your device can do that a low-engagement hub can't do, except your device maintains a more predictable amount of rotation before engagement. If these effects were so important, they would already be accomplished by low-engagement hubs and people who switch to high-engagement hubs would notice a degradation of performance.

It is worrisome that you are claiming the existence of significant phenomena without even describing what they are, let alone the physics of how your device solves them.

I've looked at your charts:

www.pinkbike.com/photo/18291874
www.pinkbike.com/photo/18290456

These are typical of what's displayed by Linkage models, which is how I assume you generated them. These charts assume instantaneous drivetrain engagement and - most importantly - zero forward movement. They're only true if the rider drops straight out of the sky without any forward motion. You may have missed a crucial part of your calculations.

Please understand I do not want to be unkind to you, I'm simply trying to promote truth. There would be nothing to disagree about if you made modest claims that can be explained by physics, such as saying this device makes a small improvement on certain bikes. The problem is that your claims are exceeding what physics can explain.

If I've made an error in my calculations, please help me find it because it would be wonderful if you've created a product that will make bikes better. I truly would be happy to ride a better performing bike and to see a small business become successful.
  • 2 0
 @dthomp325: A great observation and this is true of the front wheel; there is almost no change in the average rate of the rear wheel during compression. In fact, the rear wheel moves forward, *increasing* its speed, on many bikes.
  • 2 0
 @R-M-R: I think a bigger issue that this would help counter is braking over fast rough terrain. If you lock the wheel during a compression the chain will shorten/lengthen appropriately and cause severe stability issues when the pedals rotate and you're already fighting to keep balance. I've felt this before going from my old rocky mountain flatline to my Canfield Jedi. There was a really fast chunky bit of section before a corner that I wanted to slow down for and when I reached for a hand full of breaks I felt the bike stand up and the pedals rotate on each compression. It sapped a lot more speed than I wanted to since it felt unstable and I reached for a lot more break than I should have.
  • 3 3
 @R-M-R: Calculations are only as good as the real world data associated. Ultimately this is why beta testing is so important.
Once again I will agree under many if not most circumstances you would generally be correct, however; As I previously stated, I have experienced this myself in testing to accrue real world data.
Generally most designs need to find a happy medium between anti squat and suspention performance. There is typically a tradeoff here.

In regards to Zerode, I was not referring to the high pivot, more to the use of the Alfine rear hub at the main pivot. The idea is to keep the gearing ratio the same between the main pivot and the rear axle in order direct any drive train induced forces through a more linear effect. This can allow for more consistant damping characteristics and allow a more accurate tune. That's the theory anyways from my understanding.
  • 3 0
 @brbzantonio: Great observation! This involves two issues: brake squat / jack and kickback.

Kickback: When the rear wheel is locked, the kickback situation is essentially what's shown on Linkage (minus the rotation in the hub before it engages). You experience the full extent of the kickback. When the wheel is locked, kickback definitely can occur.

Brake squat / jack (same effect, opposite terms): Bikes typically range from about neutral (100% anti-rise, if you're using Linkage) to moderate brake jack (roughly 50% anti-rise in Linkage). Your Jedi and Flatline represent this range: roughly 100% for the Jedi and roughly 50% for the Flatline. The Flatline will have a lot more rise in the rear when you grab that handful of brake. A truly extreme example was the old Schwinn Straight 8: that thing had about -50% brake squat and when you grabbed the brake, it felt like someone kicked your butt!
  • 3 0
 @jomacba: The real purpose of the Alfine hub was to reduce unsprung mass. The consistency of the anti-squat was not a design goal - at least, it wasn't mentioned by Rob Metz in any of the several interviews I've read, whereas the other design goals were mentioned.

If calculations don't reflect real-world observations, the calculations were incomplete. If my calculations are incomplete, please help me see the error. Don't casually dismiss things.

I'm sure you felt something. Are you absolutely sure it was kickback? Could it have been poor compliance due to an insufficiently rearward axle path? Could it have been a pressure spike in a damper piston that was too restrictive? Could it have been a very stiff tire casing? Did the sensation change when you used a hub with a different rate of engagement?

I'm not saying it's impossible you felt kickback, but I'd be surprised if you controlled for all realistic variables. That's how to gather real-world data.
  • 3 1
 @OchainFactory: Bravo for your work. You`ve touched something for sure Wink
  • 2 0
 @R-M-R: I'm also kinda interested what causes the device to move in the vid specifically when the gopro is attached directly close to the bb/the device and the guy is coasting
  • 1 0
 @R-M-R: somekind of combination of overall drag in mechanisms or the weight of the chain or?
  • 2 0
 Game of inprovement is in spotting small problems and solving them one by one.

@R-M-R: All good, but kickback is most noticeable when you are braking hard/skidding, and it is usually the moment when you drop your heels and push bike in the ground…
  • 2 0
 @bikefuturist: As I mentioned above, the movement may be from the inertial force of the chain: when the wheel goes up, the chain wants to stay down. This is the same force that causes a derailleur without clutch to move and could have a similar effect on the Ochain device.

Watching the Ochain device move on video got me thinking: the Pinkbike huck-to-flat videos are a more extreme scenario, with a larger impact at slower speed. That's a worst case scenario for kickback, so if we're ever going to see kickback, we should see it on these videos.

I've been watching at 4K resolution on 0.25× playback and it does look like the upper run of chain is momentarily pulled tight on some bikes, but the chain quickly goes slack - if it was ever tight - and a slack chain can't cause kickback (other than inertial forces). This is in line with my expectations: modest kickback (if any) on some bikes, presumably when the hub's driver was lined up for rapid engagement. If you watch the cranks, there appears to be little to no rearward rotation, even in this worst case scenario of a huck to flat. Any rearward rotation may be due to the rider, since there are also cases where the cranks rotate *forward*, which would be impossible in the presence of kickback.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1XYCVJt3VE

@Guarana2th: Yes, when the rear wheel is locked, the kickback situation is essentially the full amount of what's shown on Linkage (minus the rotation in the hub before it engages). You experience the full extent of the kickback. When the wheel is locked, kickback definitely can occur. Solution: stop skidding! Razz
  • 2 0
 @R-M-R: would be interesting to examine if the inertial force of the chain is perceivable through pedals or not.
  • 2 0
 @bikefuturist: You can test it with a high- vs. low-engagement hub. There's always the chance an impact will occur when a low-engagement hub is perfectly lined up for instant engagement, but the probability of this is low and you'll feel a huge reduction in frequency and severity of events - assuming there's anything to feel. Be sure to thoroughly pad the chainstay to avoid feeling the slap against the frame and mistaking it for kickback.

The inertial effects of the chain are caused by severe impacts, so there's already a large force for your feet to deal with. The inertial effects of the chain may be a drop in a bucket, compared to the impact force. It's worth testing, of course; just saying I have a guess as to how it will turn out!
  • 3 0
 @R-M-R:
I re-did the maths.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQJSJwc3l5II4hueEdcqOioaxS2RQRmOyVLabaxXLrAkfZRLQZW7nagsXGJ6XbxPoKKUeWIi4sE_nQc/pubhtml
It seems actually possible to observe kickback at lower speeds. But It needs a really fast impact at really low speeds.
I don't have datas about shaft speeds for bikes going at those low speeds, so I can't say It happen in real life or not, but it's specific scenario that's not really common. For bike going at an average or high speeds, I have enough datas to think it is nearly impossible.
Huck-to-flat can't produce fast enough suspension action so you won't see it. big impact doesn't mean fast suspension.
  • 1 0
 @faul: I've glanced at your numbers and they're similar to mine. Didn't want to analyze in too much detail without being able to see your equations. My own method was to calculate the rate at which chain links were being "spooled out" by the cassette and compare that to the rate at which chain links were being "taken up" by the extension of the chainstay.

Your wheel speed numbers are pretty good. I have data on shaft speeds and can tell you 4 m/s is extremely high, 3 m/s is about as high as most people experience, 2 m/s is a typical high-speed event, and 1 m/s is about where the shock enters the "high-speed" damping region.

My findings were that kickback is possible when using small cassette sprockets, even at realistic speeds, but only on bikes with high kickback and moderate to fast hub engagement.
  • 1 0
 @OchainFactory: sempre sperando che non sia una presa per il culo (eh eh Big Grin ), avete provato con una corona ovale 32t? Poi non capisco se c'è l'opzione per le guarniture sram non-boost.
Grazie mille in anticipo e buona fortuna per tutto... Con tutto il cuore a voi, amici lombardi.. Che strazio vedere la Lombardia messa così
  • 2 0
 @R-M-R: hello everybody. Sorry for my late reply but here in Italy we are at home for corona with child's and is difficult to find time to work, see the pb chat ecc... I totally agree with your numbers, are quite similar to mine with whom I started working on the project three years ago.

The big question is: the cranks during impact stay horizontal? There is another movement caused by rider body that cause an extra rotation of the cranks? if yes, which movement does it take?

During testing we noticed that the cranks under impact want to rotate in the same direction as pedaling, due to the greater load given by the pedal in the forward position.
In this case you have to add an extra speed to the chain and the result is pedal kickback phenomena. It depends on riding style but we have seen that all our riders have experienced the same behavior.

there is another phenomenon related to the motions of the bike in the xy plane that adds extra speed to the chain, I am preparing a video to show it.

I hope I have been clear, you are a very attentive and prepared group I hope to find ourselves one day talking about these topics with a glass of beer after a day of riding :-)
  • 2 0
 @OchainFactory: Thank you for the response.

A forward rotation of the cranks upon impact sounds plausible, as I assume the rider's weight lurches forward when the bike is momentarily slowed by the impact. This seems easy enough to measure and verify. If confirmed, it would exaggerate the kickback effect.

My concern remains that if these issues were true problems, riders would notice detrimental effects by changing from a low- to high-engagement hub, yet that does not seem to be a common complaint, nor does it seem to be a factor in high-level racing. It's possible the effects have simply been overlooked, yet you previously claimed your racer improved his times by 3 - 6 seconds over a 2:00 track, which is an enormous difference at that level of competition. It seems unlikely - though not impossible - such a huge effect would have gone unnoticed and unresolved by most racers for so long.

Thanks again for the replies and I look forward to more data and discussion.
  • 1 0
 @R-M-R: I think it is great my flippant comment set off such an awesome conversation... lol
  • 3 0
 @iantmcg: It was inevitable. Had to start somewhere!
  • 1 0
 @R-M-R: look at the new vorsprung video - i think i finally understand. It might also explain why 0chain actually has a positive effect. or to cut it short: noone until now thought of whats actually happening in a real world scenario, a bouncing chain can not (at all times) keep the freehub coasting or will at least cause interference.
  • 2 0
 @optimumnotmaximum: Two things:

1. Somewhere in this thread - or maybe it was in the forums, or maybe both - I already mentioned the inertial effects of the chain. This isn't the first time someone has thought of it. Steve wasn't the first, I wasn't the first - I'm sure someone thought of it a hundred years ago. Most aspects of bicycle physics have been known for a long time.

2. While I don't disagree with Steve - he's both tremendously clever *and* has outstanding critical thinking, so I doubt I'll ever strongly disagree with him - I wish he had done more to address the magnitude of kickback due to the chain bounce effect. It's really not much. His point is that it's an often overlooked variable and it's non-zero, but it's not huge. The force you feel in your feet due to supporting your body weight during an impact is so much larger that it's unlikely the possible addition of the chain bounce effect will even be felt, let alone cause enough of a detrimental effect to be worth worrying about.
  • 8 2
 could i just run a really shitty hub with low engagement and this would do the same thing?
  • 4 1
 no
  • 6 0
 To certain extent...
  • 3 0
 I have a very low POE hub and I actually notice it most when pedaling through rough sections. When the suspension recovers from a hit, the hub will dis-engage and it takes quite a bit of pedal movememt to get caught back up to the hub. The noise it makes makes me think nothing good is going on in there.
  • 1 0
 wouldn't the force still be transferred through your cranks though? depends on how tight the chain/derailleur clutch is i guess
  • 1 0
 @J-Gordon: its a band-aid solution for sure. a little bit of feedback is good though, imo
  • 7 2
 It doesn't remove the drag from your derailleur, clutch, and chain itself. Only the pedal kickback, which isn't really noticeable at higher speeds. Sorry.
  • 5 0
 Pedal kickback is only possible at lower speeds, because the suspension has to travel faster than the hub's rotation. Once you pass about 12 mph the hub is spinning fast enough it's really hard for the suspension to move fast enough to "catch up" with the freehub.
  • 2 1
 @hamncheez: bingo! Those are the big offenders.
  • 4 1
 Ok, got it, it's such a stupid idea that it actually might work. Except you will have an extremely spongy-like feeling when you start to pedal or change your torque anyhow (the last time I got this feeling was when I snappedone half of my rear end on my steel bike...and I didn´t like it at all). It seems like they only put a torsional spring (elastomer) in your chainring. So will you feel less kickback? You might! Will it pedal like crap? Yes!
  • 1 0
 Once you’re actually pedaling you’ll (after 10 degrees or whatever) hit the hard stop. So it won’t feel mushy. There will be a slight bit of resistance from the spring in the first 10 degrees of movement
  • 3 0
 Bravo... it`s probably discussable and not perfect and some haters have some griefs to grind about it, but at least it`s interesting and probably promissing. I like spooky searchers whom no one believes in. Fools generally hate them; this forum shows that so well....
  • 4 1
 Wouldn't this increase chainslap? Since the chain can move from the Chainring side and the cassette side, I assume the chain would become slack and therefore get longer than normal in the normal system. Just wondering, because it seems like an interesting concept, but I wouldn't want my bike to ride any noisier than it already does on a rough trail.
  • 6 0
 I'll stick with my homebrew solution: The Bungee-Chain™
  • 9 3
 Isn’t April 1st tomorrow?
  • 4 0
 im not understanding the benefit here, and i've never enjoyed riding chainless whenever i've broken a chain lol.... someone help
  • 2 0
 As long as the wheel is rolling forward, pedal kickback should just transfer to forward motion. Witch in my book is a good thing.!!
I prefer instant engaging than some controled kickback.

did I ever realy experienced kickback ?
  • 2 0
 Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't part of the suspension performance improvement when riding chainless in removal of the derailler spring tension - especially with clutch mechs? This system and 'ghost cogs' only solve the pedal kickback part of the issue which at any speeds above walking and with non silly POE hubs I'm dubious the existence off about anyway...
  • 3 0
 This wouldn’t be a problem is people just stop buying shifty bikes, there’s plenty out there that’s $10k priced! You will not have this issue with properly designed suspension!
  • 2 0
 wise words!!!!! top!
  • 3 0
 Does your chain hang low? Does it wobble to and fro? Can you tie it in a knot? Can you tie it in a bow? Can you throw it over your shoulder like a continental soldier? Does your chain hang low?!
  • 5 0
 300 dollars to introduce play in your cranks and it's not even an April fool.
  • 5 0
 sick! does it feel squishy when you pedal? cool idea.
  • 5 1
 Meanwhile, guys in the Aggresive hardtails thread are laughing their a$$es out.
  • 1 0
 Literally reading this on a bench waiting for a ride home. Derailleur hangar broke at 6 miles out from my house and I don’t feel like walking back. Kinda funny because I just finished riding down the last section of trail chainless...it was nice.
  • 1 0
 I would like to try it,but with a very good chain guide ,and for a year of some good km on it just to see if the chain will last more and the system in it self ,cause if it lasted at least a year it might be nice ,I’m all out for new things like this ,WHY NOT ,just wish to try it before buying it ,good luck and be safe
  • 3 0
 so when your putting the power down there must be a bigger delay than whatever your POE is because the hub has to engage and then the elastomers or vice versus.
  • 1 0
 Wouldn't it crash like a PC blue screen if you pedal over rocks and both cranks and suspensions works simultaneously??? Seems wonderful to isolate suspension design's feedback from transmission ,I've seen gee athertor running a chainless spot in his cassette too,but there are some scenarios of high stress like when doing an uphill or trial rear wheel jumps where you need an instant engaging, Instead of elastometers maybe it can work with the onyx type of engagement system for better reliability I dunno I'm just thinking about it
  • 3 0
 I'd rather a worn freehub as I believe ochain will stop working at 12:01pm.
  • 1 0
 How exactly does this mechanism work? What kind of life does it have? and will the user feel slack similar to how a freecoaster feels? I definitely would be interested in trying one.
  • 6 1
 april fools ya noobs
  • 4 0
 You gotta be pulling my chain!
  • 1 0
 That mediocre video didn't exactly get my O-Face going for the O-Chain. Next time add some more explosions to that "IN A WOOORRLLDD, ONE MAN...." voice and go full Bruckenheimer.
  • 2 0
 All I know is I was expecting some Def Leppard Hysteria when that music kicked in

...but was sorely disappointed.

youtu.be/yMzyleT2FqY
  • 1 0
 The freewheel on my Zerode pinion gearbox does exactly this. It's probably the biggest difference i noticed imeditately riding my Zerode vs the previous enduro bike on the same trails, strange it's not mentioned much.
  • 1 1
 I'm guessing it's a spring inside. Either way it would be fun to try and see if much difference is felt. Don't forget what Gwin said after his chainless in! The video was funny. I'm not sure if they meant for it to be funny, but it was.
  • 3 0
 Finally a way to counteract those pesky high engagement hubs we all upgraded to...
  • 1 0
 Nice thought!! Worth to try, pedal effect and braking will be dp lots of improvement... Some more comfortable price and weight information will be great
  • 6 4
 Hmm. It seems cool, but couldn't they have gotten Dick Pound to give some quotes for the press release?
  • 7 3
 100 percent April Fools!
  • 4 1
 This product is such a gimmick, it's almost unbelievable
  • 2 0
 It’s the plumbus X of bike components

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGaBU5cKluU
  • 2 0
 The commercial is comedy, but could be a worthwhile product. Waiting for the review, Pinkbike.
  • 3 0
 More solutions to problems I don't
  • 1 0
 Seems like it's a clutch. Or am I dating myself here in the word of electric motorcycles and "sport shifting"... So now we have motors and clutches on our "bicycles".
  • 1 2
 Here's a free idea: carbon fiber chain. The force causing pedal kickback is the mass of the chain being accelerated by the cassette. If you reduce the mass you reduce the force. The chain will fold more easily against the static mass of the chainring.
  • 1 0
 Cool idea, really weird script. Like if you took one of the really self-aware Spesh ads and ran it through Google Translate a few times.
  • 2 0
 Using it since months. I'm in love with it ! no more without it on my bikes ! 3
  • 2 0
 Neko mulally has posted It on Instagram's stories... I think i can trust him about chainless riding ahah
  • 2 0
 "OChain of Fools!" However, if PBers have forgotten EC, they never knew Aretha.
  • 1 0
 I wonder if old POWERCAM cranks would also disengage the transmission, it looks like this thing works off the same principle.
  • 4 2
 This looks bloody fantastic!
  • 2 0
 if things go right with this ochain, you might be showin' her yer o-face.
  • 3 1
 Guess it's April 1st somewhere.
  • 1 0
 This seems like a better solution than what some pros are doing. As below.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/17449411
  • 3 0
 One day early.
  • 2 0
 Fitting one to my hardtail right away/
  • 1 0
 We are going thru a slightly experimental phase with mtb like what happened in the mid 2000s,
  • 1 0
 Shouldn't a system like that be installed on the freehub? It would probably be lighter and have less impact on the bike.
  • 2 1
 Early April fools joke? The script on the video was cheesy enough to be one.
  • 2 1
 Exactly my thought. Couldn't you just do this by getting a cheaper hub?
  • 1 0
 I wonder about the spacing and if there would be any issues with chainline, chain guides, and frame clearance.
  • 1 0
 Is the engagement "instant"?I run onyx hubs and would love this, however would want to loose the instant engagement feel.
  • 1 0
 Are onyx hubs disengaged when coasting? Can the cassette move both ways until you pedal? Surely that type of hub would eliminate pedal kick back
  • 1 0
 @mikelee: mmmm, good question... No the Cassette can not move both ways... then it wouldn't be instant engagement. I've often felt the tention on the chain affecting the rear movement under full lock braking. It fells like your weight is on the tentioned chain and being held up with the brake is the only way I can discribe it.
  • 2 0
 This is a ton of work for an April fools joke !
  • 1 0
 Yes, but is it webscale? ( for my tech peeps, the voice is great )
  • 6 5
 Got to be an early April Fools !
  • 2 1
 This is one that I think is actually going to work. Eventually
  • 5 3
 100 percent would buy.
  • 1 0
 I can't tell if that voiceover is taking the piss or is serious....
  • 1 0
 Was it me, or was that chain about to jump off. O'chain.....O'F****
  • 1 0
 Didn't Schwinn do something like this for tandem cranks in the 70's?
  • 1 0
 I have a tandem, and I don't understand exactly what would be the point of that.
  • 1 0
 Am I the only to check the date repeatedly while reading this??
  • 2 1
 best april fools a little early in the uk!
  • 1 0
 Mike Levy please review this good sir! Smile
  • 1 0
 This will pair perfectly with your 800 POE 3000$ wheelset. LOLOLOLOL.
  • 1 1
 Mmmm. April fools may be in play folks depending on where you are in the world
  • 1 0
 Looks sweet! But what is it exactly?
  • 1 0
 I GET IT! It rotates freely, just like on an ebike!
  • 1 0
 No more pedal strikes, praise the deity!
  • 1 0
 Such a great idea, I am ordering four of them for my bike
  • 1 0
 Wait!!! How many grams is it?
  • 1 0
 Some seriously strong "marketing speak" in that promo video!
  • 1 0
 so this is not april fools related?
  • 1 0
 Better than Ochain...Twooooo Chainz!!!
  • 1 0
 Can't wait to get one on my SC Chameleon
  • 1 0
 I'll wait for the superboost option release
  • 1 0
 Chain-slap/chain-momentum due to the derailleur maybe the "true" reason?
  • 1 0
 You can always remove 2 gear on hg hun, and try that for free
  • 1 0
 That’s why Aaron gwinn kicked ass when he broke his chain right !!!
  • 1 1
 I am willing to bet it's a ratchet or something of the sort inside.
  • 1 0
 Says it uses elastomers.
  • 3 2
 April fools!
  • 1 0
 nm...
  • 1 1
 This seems like it's a day too early.
  • 3 3
 April fools it tomorrow mother fuckers!!!!!
  • 1 0
 I don't get it.
  • 1 0
 Dick Pound.
  • 1 0
 Roadies need this
  • 3 4
 This is on a Kona, there’s the problem!
  • 1 1
 Gamechanger?! LoL
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