WeThePeople Postpones Full Suspension BMX Project Following Social Media Backlash

Jan 28, 2021
by James Smurthwaite  
Ruben Alcantara's Fingers Crossed BMX

BMX brand WeThePeople has shelved its full suspension BMX project after it received a strong backlash on social media.

In now-deleted social media posts, renderings of WTP's upcoming Swamp Monster BMX were apparently leaked to Ruben Alcantara and Garrett Byrnes of the Fingers Crossed project. Ruben has been documenting the development of the Fingers Crossed full-suspension BMX for the past couple of years via social media and through edits that include riding it at Revolution Bike Park and in Malaga. His post expressed his anger and perceived disrespect at WeThe People also planning to release a full-suspension frame that was similar to his at the same time as he was publicly developing his own. The posts attracted more than 500 comments and plenty of heated debate, but it seems that the parties have since been in touch, as the posts have now been deleted.


WeThePeople later released a statement explaining their part in the matter and clarifying some points about the Swamp Monster project. They said that the pictures shared by Fingers Crossed were only renderings used to attract pre-orders, and no production frame exists at this moment. They also noted that full-suspension BMXs have been around since the 1970s, that they had been working on the Swamp Monster design since 2018, and that they had developed a different linkage design to specifically avoid a clash with the Fingers Crossed project.

The statement concluded:

bigquotesWe have been in discussion with Garrett to try to clarify any misconceptions and to find a way that as BMX riders we can all work together to bring both our bikes to the market and give that select audience what they want, without creating any bad feelings for anyone.

Our decision to postpone the release at this time is purely down to respect for what Ruben and Garrett are trying to build up and giving them the time to bring their project to life.
WeThePeople

Ruben responded to the WeThePeople statement with another social media post that read:

bigquotesFingers Crossed BMX appreciated this from WTP and like I said in the near future we will be happy if any brand wants to do it, (we know this been done in the past but no one thought about it these days with all this cool bikeparks around) soon.Ruben Alcantara

The full statement from We The People read:


Statement: WeThePeople

Out of respect for what Ruben Alcantara and Garrett Byrnes are creating with their ‘Fingers Crossed’ project we have decided to postpone the planned release of our own full suspension bike and let Ruben and Garrett gain headway with their project.

First of all, some context from our side; What you saw on Garrett and Ruben’s Instagram posts was in fact a photoshop rendering of a Wethepeople full suspension bike, one that is created for the sole purpose of collecting pre orders from bicycle distribution companies before plans will be put in place for final production. This bike is not currently in production and is not available in shops.

The image in question was taken from a ‘range preview PDF’, it is meant for distributions and shops to use to make their pre orders. This is common procedure in our industry and is not intended to be seen by the mass public since the bike is usually not finalised when we send this out, things almost always get tweaked a bit. Given the current extended lead times in production, we had to put this preview out earlier than planned to make sure the bike was even possible to take to final production for the order year.

We first began working on the concept of a full-suspension BMX bike in early 2018. As a rider owned and rider run BMX brand with a love for stepping outside the norm, we have always looking for ways to build upon BMX and create new niche bikes which appeal to a small but passionate BMX audience looking to ride something different. We have been creating special bikes like this since our inception in the late 1990s with our 24” Atlas cruiser, 12” Prime BMX bike, Audio 22” BMX, and more recently with our 27.5” Avenger Klunker. We make bikes and we love it, it’s that simple. Over the past decade we have expanded our sister brands and even developed and engineered a range of mountain bikes so the idea of ‘full-suspension frame building’ is nothing new to us. Taking this knowledge and applying it to a 20” BMX bike was a nice challenge for us, and a fun project that our design team felt very motivated to work on. As bike riders and bike designers we believed we could create something which was currently unavailable at the time and for the masses.

While we recognise that the idea of a full suspension BMX bike is exactly what Garrett and Ruben have been pursuing and pushing, it is not an original concept. Full suspension BMX bikes were created back in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s with many large corporate bike brands like Mongoose and GT building their own versions, but with little success. Further down the road Brooklyn Machine Works also designed a bike like this in the early 2000s. Smaller rider owned projects have also been building these bikes on a small scale in recent years. It was something we found interesting, just like all the others that came before us.

Wethepeople firmly stands behind what it does, and we take offence to the concept of “ripping off an idea” when it already exists, especially when the actual design and concept of our bike has not been properly shown and is very different and unique to us. In regard to the ‘Swamp Master’ being a “copycat”; our frame uses a purposely different linkage system out of respect to what Ruben and Garrett have created, and to avoid any remote similarity with the prototypes they have posted on their Instagram. Given a small ‘screenshot’ of a photoshop mock-up has been posted, and we have not been given the opportunity to present our bike in the way we had planned and it’s not accurate to assume on social media that our bike is a copy in any way shape or form - especially when the bike hasn’t even been produced at this time.

After a phone call today with Garrett we heard of their plan on producing their bike in Taiwan, rather than in the USA as we previously thought, we can understand how learning about our bike may have caused them to see direct rivalry and question why we did not reach out first. As an independently run BMX brand, and with a product still in the development stages, reaching out and discussing our product just wasn’t the right thing to do. BMX is a small industry which feels like a family and whilst we as a brand have a love for competition and seeing the hard work other brands put into it, when time and money is invested in a product it must be properly protected. That being said, the mission with this was purely to create a fun new bike and support a growing scene. With the time and development that goes into a bike like this, a “money grab” is not a realistic option here.

We have been in discussion with Garrett to try to clarify any misconceptions and to find a way that as BMX riders we can all work together to bring both our bikes to the market and give that select audience what they want, without creating any bad feelings for anyone.

Our decision to postpone the release at this time is purely down to respect for what Ruben and Garrett are trying to build up and giving them the time to bring their project to life.

Thank you,

Wethepeople.

There is no set date on either project for a release date yet, but we'll keep you updated as they progress.


255 Comments

  • 300 3
 I have no dog in this fight, but I can't understand the Fingers Crossed position. As far as this article suggests, no one violated anyone else's IP in law or even in spirit. It's a full suspension bike with little wheels. That's it. Unlucky timing if they both drop at the same time, but maybe choice is actually good for the consumer?
  • 132 4
 Agreed. Fingers Crossed may experience their own “social media backlash”. Welcome to the real world guys. Sheesh.
  • 70 117
flag drakefan705 (Jan 28, 2021 at 10:11) (Below Threshold)
 it's a respect thing. Ruben is a bmx legend and although this isn't a new idea, the movement/style he's fostering is uniquely his. WTP beating him to market would have been a bit of a slap in the face.
  • 30 2
 Likewise I have no prior knowledge on this, but it does seem strange. It costs a fortune to try and carve out a new market sector, you really don't want to have to do that as a small co. if you can avoid it. I'd of thought FC would have been better off letting WTP do the heavy lifting of convincing people they want/need a full suss BMX, then piggy backing in on that - especially as there's such a shortage of bikes at the moment.
  • 80 6
 @drakefan705: So this Ruben guy is untouchable?
  • 38 5
 @drakefan705: sounds like someone should have got his shit together then.
  • 75 3
 So the company that welded something and probably can’t get it to market is mad someone else did is how I read it
  • 24 1
 I'm betting that a big reason wtp backed off is that it's a super niche market. Literally the only people that are likely to buy one are those that followed Ruben's videos about the prototyping of it. Such people would probably not buy a wtp one on principle. Plus they might have been on the fence anyways and just testing the waters with some renderings to see if they generated interest.
  • 25 1
 Yeah, I'm confused as well. Just because someone starts to build something doesn't mean that somebody else can't try to build the same thing better and get it to market more quickly. I have no context, but I'm having a hard time not wondering how this isn't just somebody throwing a tantrum because they're not unique and special anymore. And then everybody bullies the newcomer to back down (sitting on a bunch of R&D expenses without getting to sell what they've created to offset those expenses).

On the other hand, I do like the way @sspiff framed this "Cool that BMX is apparently a close-knit enough community that an established brand will back off to allow a little guy a chance at a slice of the market. Good job to all involved."
  • 19 3
 Both companies seem happy with results. Kudos to wtp for playing nice and to fingers crossed standing their ground on a project they believe in.
  • 5 0
 Also wtp said they will delay it, not abandon it.
  • 39 55
flag davemud (Jan 28, 2021 at 10:42) (Below Threshold)
 @drakefan705: Ruben is a little bitch who doesn't understand how any active and hotly contested market works.

What a f*cking loser and so are his supporters. Do Specialized, Trek and Giant all whine like babies about what their competitors are doing? No the get the f*ck on with business. But this is BMX. Self entitled children with no f*cking clue how the real world works.
  • 27 2
 @davemud: easy compadre. It's not like we're talking about a huge market here. I don't think either party is in this for the money- it's a passion project at best.
  • 71 0
 @davemud: at least you don’t seem like an unhinged lunatic about all of this though.
  • 4 1
 Massive BS.
  • 10 2
 @drakefan705: Thats very well said.If I wasnt into bmx back in my youth days and hadnt seen all those Etnies Videos and then the FLY bikes videos or Road Fools Id be very temped to just say what the others are saying about Ruben.
  • 13 1
 The other interesting this is www.deathpackbmx.com builds FS BMX frames and offers a service to convert a regular BMX frame to a FS frame. The say on their site they were inspired by Fingers Crossed. So it seems FC is fine with Deathpack doing it but not WTP? Is deathpack the same as FC?
  • 4 1
 @drakefan705: would you say this is all a part of God's Plan? Or is it just WTP on their Worst Behavior? I'll show myself out.
  • 12 14
 @barbarosza: exactly, a lot of these commenters don’t realize the history and impact Ruben & Garret have had on bmx.
  • 14 0
 Thankfully, not everything in the world is about IP, and corporate agendas. Instead of deriding WTP or Ruben, maybe we should commend them coming together with the goal of advancing the sport, and the spirit of cooperation on display.

But that’s just me...
  • 8 0
 @tubby1536: Brew Racing frames would weld a Kawasaki shock into the top tube of your bmx and add a pivot back in the 1970's there is no new concept here. Seems like WTP are just being overly generous to keep the BMX consumer from canceling them. No one that was putting comments on WTP's Instagram was alive when BMXs were getting shocks over 40 years ago.
  • 4 0
 I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this but brooklyn Machine works has made a full-suspension BMX before...

www.pinkbike.com/photo/20016257
  • 1 0
 @rosemarywheel: my shins hurt looking at those pedals.
  • 3 0
 @nyhc00: You know they were called "shinburger" pedals right?
  • 6 1
 There is also some history here. WTP have a history of ripping off smaller brands designs. In fact they completely knocked off a Ruben T1 frame in the past.
  • 1 1
 @literally: But you must remember; Ruben is the MAN.
He walks like a Man,
He talks like a Man,
And as a True Hombre
He likes to ride his tiny-wheeled FS bmx bike
At night, up and down the Boulevard,
its' slacked out angles rolling him smoooth,
and Low to the Ground.
You just got to understand.
  • 1 0
 @nyhc00: Thank goodness for that...
  • 2 0
 @nyhc00: I love your Tacoma. I love your Phantom V3 and I love your Kink bmx . And we re on the same page.
  • 2 0
 @rosemarywheel: more than you know.
  • 1 0
 @FULL-SEND-ER: Yeah he pretty much is a God among small wheelers
  • 5 0
 @drakefan705: "the movement/style he's fostering is uniquely his"

If he's the only one doing it, it's not a movement. You can't own a movement, anyway, that's the f*cking point, a bunch of others have to join in.
  • 2 0
 Doesn't Dan Atherton ride his BMX at Dify? So really he's fostering the movement.
  • 4 0
 @just6979: further, something can’t be uniquely someone’s if it was done by someone else before.
  • 1 0
 @FULL-SEND-ER: yes absolutely 100%, OG legendary status.

youtu.be/iwnfz5QD4io
  • 3 0
 @Longroadtonowhere: what? Like who’s design have they ripped off? There’s only so many ways you can build a bmx frame. You can say the exact same things about all the things wtp did first that other brands new do. It’s called progression.
  • 4 0
 @drakefan705: no kidding "how any active and hotly contested market works"... full-sus BMX? really?
  • 1 0
 @tubby1536: on their website they say they're not currently doing FS BMX frames out of respect for Ruben and Garrett as well...
  • 1 0
 @tubby1536: They have also stopped offering this service all of a sudden due to "respect for Ruben Alcantra"...
  • 88 2
 Cool, so they invented a 4x bike?
  • 4 1
 Ha! Perfect. ; )
  • 12 1
 Just in time for that series to hit peak popularity! Oh, wait...
  • 2 1
 @jmhills: Oh SNAP! Make 4X big again!
  • 2 0
 @DirtbagMatt: I would like to see it make a come back
  • 76 1
 I'm confused. A brand develops a frame with similar technology to an individual building a frame, and the big company backs down? What year is it?!
  • 13 0
 The year of Mr. Ruben Alcantara obviously hahaha
  • 4 0
 Won't happen to Specialized
  • 12 0
 A year when "social media" gives small voices disproportionately large influence. People think a few Twitter posts represent the views of the masses, when they really just represent the squeaky wheels. Clearly from the post in this forum... most think this is not how business should be done.
  • 9 0
 BMX community can be vicious. Appearing cool is a vital part of pretty much every brand. It's a smart move because Rueben has so much respect, doing this was seen as very un cool.
  • 6 0
 @mustbike: trying to bully someone into not competing with you in the market is seen as cool? Interesting take.
  • 75 0
 Wethepeople, stomped by Wetheotherpeople, sorta sums up the current global vibe.
  • 51 7
 Cool that BMX is apparently a close-knit enough community that an established brand will back off to allow a little guy a chance at a slice of the market. Good job to all involved.
  • 19 2
 Contrast that with Knolly getting a patent for a design they didn't invent and then suing a company that uses the design they didn't invent.
  • 6 2
 BMX is tiny and since everything is made in taiwan for the most part branding is everything. Also Reuben and Garrett are legends, and WTP probably would barely sell any of these anyways. so it makes sense for them to back off and save face without stepping on anyones toes. There is literally no one with an appreciable knowledge of the BMX Scene who doesnt have an immense respect for those two guys. They rule.
  • 2 1
 @sspiff : Is WTP's design so good that it would instantly corner the market? A slice of the market is always available to a good product.
  • 5 1
 @Ksmcarthur: If they would barely sell any, what's the f*cking problem?

"Stepping on toes"? This is capitalism, you make shit and you sell shit. If your shit is good, you sell more.

How is creating a similar, but alsodifferent, thing disrespectful? It should be flattering.
  • 6 0
 @just6979: Agreed. So, no one can come into this space and compete? This will lead to inferior products and high prices for those inferior products. Economics... not being taught to the Twitter Gen.
  • 1 3
 @Baller7756: Ok Boomer.
  • 2 0
 @Ksmcarthur: ? I’m 36 bro.
  • 33 0
 if i do a vpp bmx thats ok then?
  • 27 0
 *Rob Roskopp wants to know your location*
  • 21 1
 *Santa Cruz lawyers have entered the chat*
  • 7 0
 #TooComplexForBMX
  • 15 1
 *Intense releases same thing but with ugly colors and frame that cracks 6 months later*
  • 2 0
 @pnwpedal: You mean "Outland lawyers" lol
  • 24 1
 Can someone explain BMX culture to me, because from the outside it seems like the only thing that connects them is wheel size. For example, it feels like a BMX dirt jumper is more culturally connected to flatland/skatepark than they are to people who ride dirt jump MTB's. I'd think that flatland riders would have more in common to that strange bike dancing fixie crowd than they do with skatepark riders, but that doesn't seem to be the case either.
  • 28 0
 i'm waiting for one of those circus fixie girls to cross over to 20" flatland & absolutely slay. insane talent, the genre just lacks street cred (for seemingly arbitrary reasons, like pretty much everything else these days).
  • 8 0
 @xy9ine: yeah basically. This holds true for bmx and skating and other stuff like it.

It's weird, they're all essentially "counter-culture" things and are generally very welcoming to newcomers but there's a weird unspoken rule about conformity
  • 9 0
 BMX dirt jumpers are definitely more culturally connected to people who ride dirt jump MTBs than we are to flatland, skatepark, or street riders. Hence why we often ride and build jumps together. For most of us in the dirt jumping/trails scene, the process of building the jumps we ride is just as rewarding as actually riding them.
  • 20 0
 Been in the bmx world for a good 20+ years, and MTB for 15+, so I'll give you my interpretation. BMX is still mostly an "outsider" or "hardcore" type of niche scene for most who are passionate about it. It's not very welcoming and can be really cliquey. So even though different BMX disciplines do very different things, at the end of the day there is a strong camaraderie amongst everyone (except BMX racing, that's effectively a completely different sport/group). BUT... yeah, the reality is that BMX street dudes have more in common with street skateboarders and they sometimes hang out together. BMX trail dudes spend all day in the woods and have a lot in common with MTB and DJ, and they are starting to hang out together more too. BMX flatland is still the odd one out, but is universally respected because it's difficult AF.
  • 7 3
 @pnwpedal: I would add to your positive comment that, BMX like skate boarding. Is just as much or even more as an art form as it is a sport. That's why there is a hell of a lot more soul and integrity in riders and companies. Now imagine your'e a musician an some body rips your lirycs or a riff or beat, a graphic artist that see's his work put on a T'shirt an sold on Ebay by some chinese corp.
I think that's what most people commenting here have little understanding of. They just see a view big business interests from companies like specialized an trek who would rip somebody off in a second without a thought as they have the $$ to sue the FK out of any body that complains
  • 1 0
 @xy9ine: You're not wrong, I can't believe none of them have thought of that. I mean I'm sure they have some kind of career in what they do, international competition etc. But if one of those girls does her thing on a BMX while wearing a Vans teeshirt and Red Bull cap, she'll be laughing all the way to the bank.
  • 8 0
 @nojzilla: absolutely. It's a much higher level of expression and individuality that most MTB people don't quite understand. BMX and skate are both viewed in lower regard by the average person, have higher frequency of injury, and involve time in less-than-desirable locations (grimy parking lots, sketchy alleys, most skateparks, most dirt jumps spots, etc). It takes a lot of dedication and passion so the emotional investment is high. I have the best memories of cramming a bunch of BMX dudes and bikes into one of our $1000 POS cars, going on an adventure to ride something we only heard about, eating cheap greasy food in parking lots, and just being dirtbags. In comparison... Loading our $5k+ MTBs onto our expensive racks and driving to a maintained trail system to ride the same trails as everyone else can feel very sterile and generic at times. MTB is accepted, even if it's just riding a used budget XC bike on a flat dirt path it's considered a "respectable" activity like golf these days. For the average rider it's just an activity, not a passion (granted the average MTB rider and the average PB user are miles apart Big Grin ).
  • 2 0
 @pnwpedal: Thanks for the insight. I really appreciate that they generally value culture and artistic expression over geometry numbers and contest results. MTB could learn a thing or two from that, but I guess everything has its pros and cons. The BMX guys at my old jump spot kept to themselves but it's cool to hear that overall the two scenes are beginning to mingle.
  • 1 0
 @thats-joe: no problem! I think that a lot has to do with the older generation of BMX dudes who are now in their 30s and 40s, and have mellowed out a bit in life.
  • 20 0
 OMG, it looks so much like a bike I designed back in 2007. Great minds think alike. When you have a good idea, it's only a matter of time before someone else comes out with the same.

photos.app.goo.gl/94oNoEnRMwHZ1cAXA
  • 2 0
 That’s really badass, whatever happened with that?
  • 12 0
 Linking your personal Gmail photos to Pinkbike. BOLD MOVE COTTON. Let’s see if it pays off.
  • 1 0
 Dobermann already made that bike in 26 back in the day I believe
  • 4 0
 Anyone else think this was sarcastic and expected a drawing in ms Paint. Nice job btw
  • 1 0
 @richard01: *Mario Paint
  • 2 0
 @JeCo07: I was the bike designer, production manager and co-owner at Dobermann.
  • 2 0
 @nyhc00: that bike was a prototype meant for jumping and jibbing. I called it the GLC. (After the lift company) After I sold my shares of Dobermann, that particular model got dismissed. They went on and produced a similar model called Le Pink.
  • 17 2
 I suggest they both hire midgets and settle it via a joust using their little bicycles and full knights of the round table suits of armour. will make way better viewing than that academy thing...just saying.
  • 3 0
 Hell yeah!!!
  • 2 0
 This has a whole jackass episode theme to in my head?
  • 19 2
 Everything about this just screams "BMX" and I love it.
  • 21 4
 Isn’t it the point of bmx bikes to be all identical?
  • 15 0
 WeThePinkbike will now give our ruling on this
  • 12 0
 Just as long as we get a Grim Munchkin review out of this I won't take a side.
  • 4 0
 Grim Timbit?
  • 4 0
 @barp: *Grimbit
  • 11 2
 this is kinda pathetic. what if no one else developed a mountain bike after specialized released the rockhopper? of if the US or Russia back down in the space race because the other "really wants to get there first"
  • 10 1
 what am i missing , its a single pivot bmx ? this has been done in the mtb world since 1990? or is it an industry thing?
  • 9 5
 As said by someone else:

"it's a respect thing. Ruben is a bmx legend and although this isn't a new idea, the movement/style he's fostering is uniquely his. WTP beating him to market would have been a bit of a slap in the face."
  • 21 26
flag davemud (Jan 28, 2021 at 10:38) (Below Threshold)
 @DanielP07: Bullshit. If that little bitch can't compete in an active market with his competitors he should take his bike and go home. f*ck. Grow up people, what world do you live in?
  • 5 1
 @davemud: someone did not took his muslix this morning
  • 24 15
 @inonyme: This little whiny bitch is a joke and so is this whole situation. The guy has competitors get over it. The bigger joke is his competitor WTF BMX folded to this bullshit.

Have you not ever looked through Pinkbike? Have you not seen the dual suspension 16"and 20" kids bikes made by all the major brands now? A bit of geometry makes for a whole new unseen concept in bikes? What a f*cking joke. Perfect example of the bike industry in general.

f*ck, I had a single shock dual suspension BMX in the 70s. There was the Yamaha moto Bike. Do some f*cking research people. This whiner Ruben and his/your generation don't invent everything you make up . This shit has all been done before you or Ruben came a long. The guy is clearly a rider not a business man.
  • 1 0
 Seems to be a lot more too this, for one Suspension forks were tried on BMX in 1990s, but rider sponsored by them, would run them ridged, so is a lot of hate on suspension in BMX,?
Plus suspension changes things that some do not want
But still think just call it something else, there is something really good about 20" x 4" tyres that works well
Just dont see why powers in BMX take all this stuff so to heart?
  • 3 0
 @davemud: Gooosfraba.
  • 9 1
 Wtp backed down because they know that the entire bmx community got Ruben's back, for the simple reason that he's the most respected rider in the bmx world, and for good reasons (garrett too). When you reach the same status in your branch come back and start calling legends pussies.
  • 1 1
 @fullmetaljacky: see when you say bmx arent there about 10 different flavours of those , i only know the track bikes that border on 24 in wheels so am assuming this is dirt? Not flatland or air
  • 3 1
 @Compositepro: i was replying to davemud calling out my childhood heroes, sorry about that
  • 1 0
 @fullmetaljacky: hey man no worries i dont know a great deal about bmx to comment was wunderin?
  • 4 2
 @davemud: f*ck off old man go complain about something else
  • 2 1
 @fullmetaljacky: He's a legendary rider, yes, but why does that mean he gets to have zero competition in the business world? Respect would be not shitting on his design, that TBH has taken quite a while to come about (you'd think a legend could get that shit dialed by now).
  • 2 1
 @fullmetaljacky: Turns out your childhood heroes don't understand capitalism and want special treatment in the industry.
  • 11 0
 Paging @taj
  • 10 0
 22.5” wheels coming right up.
  • 3 0
 22.5 ain't dead
  • 2 0
 20" for life!
  • 11 2
 Can't believe how many people here have no idea who Ruben Alcantara and Garrett Byrnes are.
  • 7 1
 I think there’s a bigger issue:

BMX riders are notoriously cheap arse dirtbags who spend as little as possible, so they ain’t gonna but a full suspension bike.

The only folks who’d lay down coin for a full suspension bike in this category is DJ and pump track, but they want something other than a BMX bike.

So yeah, drama over a solution that very few people care about, a turf war over nonsense.

Social media is getting stupider by the day ...
  • 1 0
 that's all true. This is definitely a passion project for both parties. They arent expecting huge profits
  • 17 9
 Pussy's - just build the fecking thing.
  • 10 2
 We The Pussies? That would make a good band name :-)
  • 1 0
 @FR33DOMdotCOM: I meched in a BMX shop years ago. We would change We The People stickers to Wet The Peehole
true story
  • 5 1
 OK so lots else has been said that I fully agree with but has anyone else wondered how someone posts all of their progress on public forums and essentially let's all competitors see video footage of their plan...and then they are shocked that the idea gets scooped? Either he needs a way better helmet or they are both trying to get some attention for yet another invention noone needs or wants and could flop without generating some buzz prior to releasing it...Oh wait is this planned?
  • 8 0
 watching mountain bike folk talk about bmx is and always will be amusing.
  • 1 0
 For sure, haha! It's like discussing some little beetle that has just been discovered or something.
  • 4 0
 Here's the rest of the press release: "After much deliberation, WeThePeople (in order to form a more perfect Unior) have decided not to OneUp our colleagues. We know this is not the Answer some of you wanted, but we did not Intend for this to be controversial. Nor did we want to become the Black Sheep of the bike Industry Nine times (or even once). We Hope this is the Nobl way to Unite us all. We've always Felt that We Are One, so Fingers Crossed this means Full Speed Ahead to a Rose-y future.
  • 8 3
 Isn't the point to a BMX to be fully rigid? Whether it's for jibbing at the skatepark or racing on those skinny tires, I don't see any advantage to having full sus
  • 5 1
 I'm real curious about what the BMX community thinks about this idea.
  • 51 8
 @dirtnapped: I don’t trust the opinions of people who continually fail to see the merits of wearing a helmet for a sport that involves landing on concrete and asphalt.
  • 5 0
 A big part of street riding is landing huge drops to flat, I see how it could help with that. When you think about it though, BMX in general doesn't make sense, it's just about doing cool fun shit, so I think this counts.
  • 1 0
 @usedbikestuff: Yeah....about that.....
  • 6 1
 I think the idea is a bmx that bmx riders can ride on smooth mtb jump lines at bikeparks. I could be wrong tho.
  • 2 2
 Right? Christ, half of them don’t even use brakes, never mind suspension.
  • 3 0
 @dirtnapped: As someone who has ridden BMX for 25 years and still does...I see almost zero point to a full suspension BMX bike.

You can ride a regular, rigid BMX bike at most bike parks just fine since they are almost always smooth enough.

Riding a BMX with suspension at lift served park like Trestles seems like a horrible idea.
  • 3 0
 Someone please put disc brakes on a bmx it will blow their minds
  • 7 0
 @Rich-Izinia: if you can’t assemble it with a mallet, it is too complex for bmx
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro: This exists... but you don't want them on a bike that will be grinding rails, walls, etc...
  • 4 0
 If it enables BMX'ers to do bigger huck to flats and other stunts I'm all for it.
  • 1 0
 The idea with this bike is it allows you to comfortably ride rougher, more mtb focused dirt jumps. It was also an experimental project, a full sus bmx bike hasn't been done in a while.
  • 5 1
 @Rich-Izinia: Correction: Half of them have the skill not to need brakes. Mtbers can't even use the ones they have right.
  • 2 0
 I think Skateboards need suspension, damn they ride rough!
  • 1 0
 There is no advantage it's just a fun project to build a fun bike. for having fun.
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro: 1indust bikes make 22" discbrake BMX bikes. Best dirt jump bike ever.
  • 3 0
 At the end of the day, pulling the bike this isnt a respect thing (unfortuantely) its a business decision. WTP realized the reputation hit their brand would take, would be bigger than the money they could make continuing on with the project. Something they probably should have realized before they even started designing it. WTP also has a pretty bad reputation of ripping off other companies already, so in such a small niche market, where you have to actually be a respected company to sell bikes (at least much more so than in MTB) pulling the bike makes the most sense for them.
  • 3 0
 "perceived disrespect"

Disrepect is doing a similar thing you're doing but just faster? Should they "show respect" by slowing down to let you catch up?

Disrepect is intentionally changing their design to avoid a potential conflict with yours? Should they have cloned it perfectly instead? Since imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

He may be an OG Legend, but right now sure sounds like an egotistical a*shole who's scared to compete on a level playing field.
  • 2 0
 Ile be nice here, the only company deserving of any type of suspension bmx is Brooklyn Machine Works. To be honest it's a bad idea, bmxing is fine the way it is because it's the rider no the machine, this is a concept likes cars at best and Mickey would be pointless and would never really sell one either, time and time again like I've read people make stuff at the same time, no drama, no haters, nout. Nice idea but will not sell the way any projections show a rise in profit.........????????????
  • 2 0
 I met another guy the other day with a 20" Full Suspension BMX Bike he used for dirt jumping by Rhodes Fabrications. This isn't a novel idea. I am surprised WeThePeople backed down on their release date, but I guess it's cool that they will give these little guys a chance to compete.
  • 1 3
 You met Jake. That bike (aka Karen) was directly inspired by the Fingers Crossed bikes. Yes there have been FS BMX bikes before; the moto bikes of the 70s and 80s, the Mongoose Aftershock of the 90s, and that beast that Brooklyn Machine Works made in the early 2000s, but nobody in almost two decades has given any serious consideration to FS 20" bikes until Ruben and Garrett put their Fingers Crossed stuff out there. A few people have made or had someone custom make them a FS 20" since then, and that's been awesome. Ruben and Garrett have been very supportive of that, and it's allowed people to ping ideas back and forth to figure out what's working and what's not as Fingers Crossed worked to finalize a production version. The issue that Ruben, Garrett and whole lot of other people have with We The People deciding to release a production version of their own, is that they are essentially coming in at the last minute and snaking the work that's already been done by Fingers Crossed and the others who have since built similar bikes. There's been talk in here about why it's taken so long for Fingers Crossed to get on with making bikes. I mean, the Fingers Crossed videos came out not even a year ago. Somehow people must have completely forgotten about the pandemic and what that's done to the bike industry. Existing bike brands are having a hard enough time getting bikes produced, now think about a tiny little start up trying to get bikes made. They're going to be the absolute last in line to get anything made. Also worth noting is that it takes at least a year (best case scenario in a non-pandemic environment) for bikes to go from design, to production, to being sold. So, Fingers Crossed not having bikes yet is in no way unreasonable. There's also been a lot of talk about the business sense of the guys behind Fingers Crossed. Let's talk about the lack of business/marketing common sense that We The People showed here. These bikes were always going to be a very niche thing. Ruben and Garrett created that niche and it's probably safe to say that 95% of the people who would actually buy those bikes are fans of both of them and what they're doing. Anyone with half a brain over at We The People should have known that they would instantly piss off the majority of the potential customer base for FS 20" bikes if they brought their own version to market before the people who developed that niche did.
  • 1 1
 @terriblejon: So this 95% of buyers you speak of should just wait for the FC bike to come out. Let the WTP bike die on the vine. This would really be the best "revenge" so to speak...
  • 1 0
 @krka73: In all honesty, the FC bikes very well may make it out to consumers well before the WTB bikes ever would have. As they stated in their press release, it was a rendering in their range preview to secure pre-orders from dealers. As far as I know WTP haven't even gotten as far as producing an actual prototype. The WTB bikes very well could have been two years out from materialization. I would imagine that with the current demand for regular complete BMX bikes, a niche FS 20" bike would be at the back of the line as far as their production schedule go.
  • 4 2
 BMX like skate boarding. Is just as much or even more as an art form as it is a sport. That's why there is a hell of a lot more soul and integrity in riders and companies. Now imagine your'e a musician an some body rips your lirycs or a riff or beat, a graphic artist that see's his work put on a T'shirt an sold on Ebay by some chinese corp.

I think that's what most people commenting here have little understanding of. They just see a view point big business interests from companies like specialized an trek who would rip somebody off in a second without a thought as they have the $$ to sue the FK out of any body that complains.....
  • 9 5
 As a long time rider of both MTB and BMX this is exactly why I love riding my bikes but I FKNG hate most of the MTB/cycling industry an riders. Very few MTB'ers have the soul,integrity,art an passion of skaters an BMXers and they also are inapplicable of even understanding just that...

lets face it MTB freeride,DJ, slope evolves from what BMX has done before an often by riders as amazing and influential Ruben. FK anybody here saying Ruben is being a bitch about this.

Oh and another thing, at least those ratty BMX'ers can make a Bottom Bracket that works while MTBers cry about a hundred creaky standards
f*ck MTB (middle finger emoji)
  • 5 1
 @nojzilla: Yeah the amount of idiots looking at this as if Reuben was trek and WTP was spesh pisses me of
  • 6 2
 @nojzilla: nah, I know who he is and still think this is laughable.
Just to summarize, spends 5-10 year supposedly developing a single pivot bmx? For real? Then is but hurt that someone else made a suspension design that looks similar. For real again?? I mean, I can’t even wrap my head around the amount of stupid. And if you aren’t hanging out with mtb riders that are passion about riding I would recommend looking for new riding friends.
  • 1 3
 @sunringlerider: I have plenty of riding buds that see MTB the same way as me, thanx tho. So how would you feel if you worked on something as a small boutique manufacturer an then a large Corp with the power an $$$ to take your concept an mass market it before you release to the public just because your project gains interest an the bigger Corp can see profit.....
Your honestly telling me you'd be fine with that???
Yeah bullshit
  • 1 1
 Esp6when this isn't the first time they've ripped off Rubens frame design (for terrible one)
  • 3 1
 @nojzilla: ok, I commend your frustrations but unfortunately that is not how the business world works. Ya actually I have poured my heart and soul into projects with small companies only to have large corporations come in and take the profits. But dude that’s how business works.
Are you new to the internet? You can’t post about your “secret” project publicly and then be pissed when someone else beats you to the punch. I mean what a piss poor product launch. And again it’s a single pivot bmx bike, with omg this new brake thing. They are amazing, not sure if you’ve heard of disc brakes? I guess they can put them on bikes now. I mean really man, this whole thing is laughable.
Race bmx has embraced disc brakes for a while now too.
  • 1 1
 @sunringlerider: that's understandable if a 'cycling' corporation like specialized or giant did this BUT, it was another small'ish BMX company..... a company from within the BMX world. A world of integrity an respect for each other... that should've known better.
Or at least that's the way BMX was back when I was healthy an strong enough to be part of the life style
Also it's not that Ruben has invented anything new, re single pivot an disc brakes or even full suss BMX but, he has stuck his neck an reputation on the line at a time when those technologies are now good enough to make full suss BMX a viable functioning thing, and to see if there is an interest let alone enough interest to make a viable small business .
Now imagine if a similar thing happened to Aggy or the Mc Caul bros.. there would be all outrage here...
An people dman well know it
  • 1 1
 @sunringlerider: stealing a secret project?? Wut? That's whats laughable man! Rubens fingers X'ed posts where there for every one to see.
  • 1 2
 @sunringlerider: heres another way to look at it... you've said,
"Ya actually I have poured my heart and soul into projects with small companies only to have large corporations come in and take the profits. But dude that’s how business works."
...

now imagine it was a close friend or a family member that ripped you..
somebody that should have youe back..
That's what we're looking at here

as I've mentioned that's the difference between most MTB'ers an BMX'ers an respective companies
  • 1 1
 @nojzilla: I understand that it’s not “secret and that’s the most amazing part. That’s marketing 101. Keep your project quiet to build hype then do a launch. Publicizing a project for the world to see and then being upset when it get copied, is utterly mind blowing.
If my friend or family were in the game to make money? That’s my fault for not putting a patent in place, the problem is when your making a “revolutionary” bike with 25-30 year old technology no one gives a shit.
  • 1 0
 Well, it seems theres not even a agree to disagree on this so I'll just leave it with this. Soul and Integrity are not measurable commodities, you either have them or you don't. Again, something most MTBers will never understand an why they can go fuck themselves
  • 1 0
 @sunringlerider: again "revolutionary'?? Who's claiming that exactly?? No body. An just read through the comments on this post to find that PLENTY of people give a shit. why else would WTP go back on production to save face an ultimately harm to the brand......?
  • 1 2
 @nojzilla:

Dude I’ve been following his project the whole time. Yes it has a following but in the bmx community and that’s about it. And that’s the unfortunate truth of it. Soul and integrity? You serious with that one? Wow. Ya I’m with you. I’ll be laughing about this one for a while.
Also you seem to miss sarcasm. No kidding a bike with 30 year old suspension design isn’t ground braking or revolutionary. So what’s the butt hurt about two people making the same crap? Oh ya. Soul and Integrity.
  • 2 0
 You can't please all the people all the time. As soon as people are not guided by 'social media backlash' we may start seeing creativity and artistic license return. Bottom line is money obviously, but the vocal minority on social media should not always be taken as the word of the people. Those with the least to say usually talk the most. This is by no means just a bike industry problem.
  • 7 1
 I am not gonna comment.
  • 25 1
 Schrodingers comment.
  • 4 2
 @bigtim: no its not.
  • 6 0
 @bigtim: This comment has been observed.
  • 2 0
 @krka73: if my comment matters more than the uncertainty principle, then yes. Otherwise, also yes - but no as well.
  • 1 0
 I put my comment in a box, maybe...
  • 2 1
 Completely agree it's a bitch move on Rueben's part. That said, growing up BMX and being active back when Rueben was full on in the 1990's early 00's, I can say the BMX world would turn on WTP. They are a 'core' brand and they would lose big time. Much smaller world in BMX and everyone knows everyone else, even more so than MTB. WTP would be 'cancelled' in today's terms pretty quickly
  • 2 0
 i once scored the sickest raw aluminum full suspension 24" bmx frameset... I couldnt find a suspension fork for it and my dad gave it away to his friend at a local bike shop... that one still kinda stings
  • 2 1
 This sucks. Reminds me of Voile and the Splitboard. They actually had a patent on it, and that is what stop any and all progress toward build better board binding interface for a decade. Make your BMX the better BMX and people will buy it. Also if your marketing campaign is to document it on social media, I don’t want to say they deserved it but we’re they actually surprised.


Will full suspension BMXers wear helmets?
  • 2 0
 This is in no way gonna be a big market. it's a passion project for both parties really. Full suspension BMX is never gonna take off There is nothing patent related about this - read the article. WTP backed off out of respect. Maybe cause they arent specialized
  • 1 0
 @Civicowner: Where did I say this was patent related? I explain the difference between this and Splitboards was that Voile had a Patent. Read my comment. Regardless companies not engaging in their own R&D out of respect hurts all the consumers. Less choice less Incentive to improve. Which is why for a decade splitboarding was niche market. Now every Tom, Dick and Sally owns one. The worst part was that the boards sucked and where dangerous, until competition forced everyone to make better shit. Competition is a good thing.
  • 2 1
 Thank goodness there was not “strong backlash” from the mountain bike community that stifled development when people started experimenting with full suspension mountain bikes. Had there been our sport would not be what it is!
  • 1 0
 Bmx scene was small back in the days.. Ruben got the legend status the years of Cologne Worlds venue. They all knew each other. They ride and party together. Wethepeople brand started a few years before also in Cologne. We need to understand the simplicity of a bmx scene from a mountain bike point of view. This would have never occurred to Specialized, Santa Cruz.... Just a Phone call and all solved.
  • 1 0
 Seems so nitch, that the more people making these full suspension BMX the more press and sales. Often competing brands can be. complementary just by drive awareness to market know one knew existed. If someone learns that a full suspension BMX exist and is made by brand Y, they will likely research it and learn about brand X.
  • 1 0
 Here is an idea. Maybe one of these BMX companies can make their 24" cruisers into full suspension 24+ bikes, and put plus size tires on them. Big volume with about a 670 mm outer diameter.

They can call it a 26'er, and it will be the new rage.
  • 1 0
 If wtp made an effort to not infringe on the other guys copyright then they should be left alone to build what they like, I'd rather see several full sus bmxs on the market rather than just one, that will no doubt be extremely over priced ????.

A little compilation ain't a bad thing.

Well done bmx community, you successfully bullied a company out of producing somthing that would benefit everyone.

BELLENDS ????????
  • 5 1
 Can't find the renderings WTP posted- anyone have a link?
  • 13 10
 Someone in the know explain this to me. Because whoever is behind this Fingers Crossed project now looks like a punk.
  • 9 7
 Congratulations to Ruben and Fingers Crossed: You just became what Leo Kokkonen and Pole is to the MTB world.
Nice work shooting yourselves in the...
  • 1 0
 nvm
  • 2 9
flag Heidesandnorth (Jan 28, 2021 at 12:00) (Below Threshold)
 @eric32-20: But man, you gotta consider that that Ruben A. guy is a freakin‘ legend! When you are such, you can be Dick Pound and you got a following. To a degree, it is like with the Orange Idiot and his fan base.
Kokkonen, on the other hand...
  • 1 0
 @eric32-20: in the ?

Can people please finish sentences so i know wtf is going on :-)
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro: male shaft
  • 5 4
 It's quite simple. The BMX industry and BMX'ers have a level of soul and integrity that the 'Cycling' and MTB industry will never understand or come any where close to.....
  • 3 1
 It takes years to develop single pivot bike with small wheels? Where's the complication at this level of suspension development through the bike business?
  • 2 1
 First to market and a few kids throwing shade on insta . . . vs waiting for your competition to catch up and win, oh and make the kids happy. Capitalism and ethics, oh the dilemma.
  • 1 0
 Reuben is a tiny company. WTB is one of the biggest BMX companies. This is like BTR fabrications vs Specialized
  • 3 1
 Mummy, some one said on the Facebook/Youtube that I should not build a new bike and my idea is stupid waaaahaaaa I'm going to give up on life now.
  • 1 0
 Brooklyn machine works did 20”
BMX I had a BMX that had suspension in the late 70s
Nothing new here Look up superco bikes. Has photos & history of Doc he built some of the first full sus 20”, 24” & 26”
  • 2 0
 I never knew the BMX community harbored such little whiny bitches.....what a shame, should have got some lycra instead of the pegs and taken a different path imo
  • 2 1
 while is probably cool idea, what's the point of 20' FS ? you will not get much of the travel however you will add a lot of parts to brake
  • 1 0
 The point is that it's fun, not "better"
  • 1 0
 @Civicowner: in this case why multiple companies do not produce that? it was in place like 20 y ago
  • 2 0
 Tonight on "Drama in the Bike Industry":

And tune in next week where we find out if Roadies can BMX.
  • 1 0
 @craigcanucks: ....but is a part of God's Ineffable Plan? Or do you believe His Great Plan is the same as his Ineffable Plan?
Gotta good feeling about this omen. A Good Omen!
  • 3 0
 more relevant than e-bike articles, so there's that.
  • 1 0
 @nurseben yes, but I've known coupe dudes who ride bmx and have had a hard time on a dirt jumper due to bigger wheels. it depends on how you ride I guess.
  • 1 0
 OK, BUT WAIT:
i build some DJ frames.
My dude wants a BMX squish.
I make it and he's STOKED AF: asked me to make 24 for his crew and sell a couple.
DO I HAVE TO STOP????
  • 1 0
 All bikes are bikes, you just ride them. Unfortunate big money gotta sell the dream before it’s even made.. go Ruben and go Garrett these guys are OG
  • 1 0
 There is already plenty competition for full sus BMX. A guy I know makes them: www.instagram.com/p/CI82u46Hxf8/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
  • 1 0
 I believe there intended for rougher dirt jumps or an more groomed mtb jumps
  • 1 0
 Like a DJ Wink
  • 1 0
 Well a we the people klunker just moved a little higher in bikes I gotta have list.
  • 6 3
 Looks like a Session....
  • 3 0
 Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!
  • 1 1
 Is it me, or is this not the perfect opportunity for a flex chainstay short travel design? Let's think outside the box people!
  • 1 0
 So once Coke created, no room for Pepsi. I"m just happy Ruben wasn't working on the first AMP, or Yeti or ...
  • 1 1
 I guess they really are going to sell more then 50 of these. I find that really hard to believe. Could they be working together to generate interest?
  • 1 0
 Ruben Alcantara and Joe Rich are like Sam Hill and Brandan Faiclough of mountainbiking.
  • 3 1
 This is why I love BMX an FK the 'cycling' industry
  • 2 1
 Same to me..after 20 yrs of MTBing i switched back to bmx 3 years ago..and i simply love every aspect of it.. FK new standards, FK all the marketing bullshit..BMX is real
  • 1 0
 I have no interest I a full sus BMX but now I'm thinking I want to start a company and name it "out of spite"
  • 1 0
 Meanwhile Brooklyn Machine Works rolled over in it's grave....

m.pinkbike.com/photo/39676
  • 1 0
 Imagine that happening in the mtb world
  • 1 0
 I’ve been in multiple meetings where comments regarding water bottles inside the triangle has affect design decisions. Comment sections happen
  • 1 1
 20er is the new 29er, c'mon guys we figured this out ages ago, big wheels are better, so are brakes
  • 1 0
 Its clearly a bit of a divisive topic according to the comments?
  • 2 1
 Here's an idea, just buy a dirt jump bike
  • 1 0
 Making it not Mickey sorry...
  • 1 0
 Suspension before brakes?!
  • 1 0
 Hopefully this gets figured out soon.......so I can buy one!
  • 1 0
 We The People make cool stuff I still want a Avenger BMX!
  • 1 0
 BMX riders are bums. Or I'm just mad because I can't dirt jump a BMX
  • 1 0
 Kids, their bikes and their problems...
  • 1 0
 Nope no more shits to give.
  • 1 0
 News Flash, these were not the first full suspension BMX bikes.....
  • 1 0
 Hey Specialized, go visit WTP to learn how to discuss things.
  • 1 0
 this escalated quickly
  • 1 1
 why the hell do they build fullsus bmx???? wtf happened to bmx????
  • 4 5
 A lot of MTBers commenting on here about a game they have no cards in. Don't f#$k with Ruben.
  • 3 6
 .., and they probably don’t care a whole lot about what you think, ie who they hell is Ruben?

Get a life, you’re not Ruben.
  • 1 0
 #wetoo
  • 1 2
 read the article, they deleted said posts.
  • 1 2
 It's not a bmx when suspension comes into play....
  • 1 0
 Well it sure as sh#$ isn't the handicap of a wagon wheel bike.
  • 1 4
 Sounds like someone is just salty..... A full sus bmx sounds retarded anyways, but what do I know.
  • 2 0
 I know nothing about BMX, but that was the opinion of many in the early and mid 90's regarding suspension in MTB, now look were we are.
  • 1 0
 @smuggly: can’t argue w that haha
  • 3 6
 If its not a 29er for the 29er crybabies then they don't like it
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