We've Got Questions: Digging Deep at Enve

Jan 9, 2018
by Vernon Felton  

Enve Composites rolled out a new line of wheels this past summer. The new wheels, successors to the original M Series wheels, were said to not only be more comfortable to ride, but virtually pinch-flat proof. Enve sent over a missive: Did I want to come and check out the new hoops? Yes, I did....but....I was actually more interested in asking Enve some hard questions.

As a bike geek, I'm interested in all sorts of shiny, whirring, clicking bits, but what actually interests me more is the big picture. And when we're talking about Enve, there all sorts of big picture questions that I hadn't seen them face yet.

Why were your M Series wheels so damn stiff?

Why not build your wheels in Asia and lower their sticker price?

And, yeah, about the price of your wheels.... Why are they so expensive?


No pinch flats? That's intriguing. But those other questions? That's what I truly wanted to see Enve answer.

Enve Composites Video Vernon Felton photos by Ian Matteson
Photo by Ian Matteson

Look, new products come and go. They are shiny. They are some holy grail combination of light, yet stiff, yet resilient, yet BlahDeeBlahBlahBlah. As fascinating as new products can be, I always wake up knowing that tomorrow will just bring more of them. What tomorrow won't necessarily bring are answers to the big questions.

Which is why I sent Enve an email back asking whether they would be willing to sit down and face the kinds of questions that I, and probably a lot of our readers, would like to see answered. It might get awkward. Someone might get pissed. But the results would be interesting. To their credit, Enve accepted.

Anyway, that's what this video is about. Hard questions. Interesting answers.

I'm sitting on several hours of video that wound up on the editing room floor. What you are seeing is probably 2 percent of what we shot. I'm currently creating a podcast from the bits of audio, so stay tuned for that. In the meantime, the video speaks for itself.

Enve Composites Video Vernon Felton photos by Ian Matteson
Photo by Ian Matteson


Must Read This Week

494 Comments

  • + 226
 This is a great video. I thought the questions were blunt but fair. Plenty of opportunity for Enve to answer without it coming across like an ad. In the end, the viewer got a lot of good information in an entertaining way. And the production quality is top notch. Great follow up to the start your own bike company vid. Please keep 'em coming!
  • - 25
flag mikefromdownthestreet (Jan 9, 2018 at 10:14) (Below Threshold)
 Casey Neistat vibes
  • + 13
 @mikefromdownthestreet: dont insult him like that
  • - 9
flag zer0c00l44 (Jan 9, 2018 at 11:47) (Below Threshold)
 @richsoffar: wheres the insult. Definate casey nesitat vibes and hes a cool guy.
  • + 9
 @zer0c00l44: neistat a cool guy.... LOLOL
thanks for that good joke
  • - 6
flag zer0c00l44 (Jan 9, 2018 at 12:33) (Below Threshold)
 @richsoffar: Whats the matter dude, tried to get in the blog and he left you out. Just get over it, ride your bike and have some fun. Dont be bitter.
  • + 131
 Straight off the bat and Sarah Lehman....the CEO.... lies straight to our faces.
"Everyones first thought in the morning - how can we make the best wheel"

Pretty sure it's
Let me grab a coffee, hit up Bumble for a bit to find me a hottie, check my emails and see if Geoff from the warehouse got back too me so I can email the guy in the bike shop in Mexico and tell him we don't have those colour stickers yet, shit it's only Wednesday today, c'mon Friday......wheels.
  • + 44
 I think the harsh but fair interview approach is exactly whats needed at the moment, and as a consumer I felt well represented by Vernon and the kinds of questions he was asking. Keep up the good work!
  • + 39
 You can ask all the hard questions as bluntly as you like when you got cannons.
#Vernonneverskipsarmday
In all seriousness he is very good with this video interviews, keep up the good work dude.
  • + 11
 @feldybikes Agreed. I have more respect for imperfect answers from tough questions than slick answers from softball questions.
  • + 0
 Just to save me having to watch the video, what are the answers to those three questions?
  • + 192
 Say what you will about their product...I have mad respect for their desire to keep operations over here.
  • + 12
 Exactly. #merica
  • + 23
 now they have north american competition with we are one so interested to see if that changes enve much. we are one seems to be offering better value and you could argue canada treats their people better than the US...
  • + 40
 another reason to look at @WeAreOne wheels. hand laid in Canada, brother!!!
  • + 16
 Yes...say what you wheel... I'll see myself out.
  • + 17
 Exactly. I'm the guy at 2:20 and as a bike geek through and through, I am grateful for the opportunity to be in the industry. I've had a rough couple years with injuries and illness and this job has saved me from homelessness. But American.
  • + 2
 @conv3rt: yep exactly! I'll never pay enve prices! Noble looking pretty decent as well.
  • + 2
 @bohns1: I should add too that they are good to deal with. I was communicating with the owner Dustin when I was buying mine. So far the wheels have been great and I'm not what you'd call a smooth clean rider. Point and shoot style.
  • + 0
 @conv3rt: Also check out Tairin wheels. Hand laid in Canada as well, cheaper than WeAreOne and they have their own hubs too.
  • + 6
 @conv3rt: and small-town western Canada to boot. If they could grow to 100+ people could you imagine what a success story that would be?
  • + 5
 @labiker9: I'm not sure they are actually manufactured in Canada - they're designed here, and the wheels are *hand-laced* but I couldn't find anything (in my 5 min of googling) to suggest the rims aren't laid-up overseas. I think that would be something they would sell in a big, obvious way if it were true (if so, they should!)
  • + 8
 @labiker9: Pretty sure Tairin is handbuilt (spokes into hub and rim) in Canada, but the rims are basically from the same place as the NOBL ones - i.e. the Far East (and not Hastings St far East).
  • + 1
 @conv3rt: agree my agent wheels are bullet proof and ride awesome and can't beat the price with the hope hubs (I got I9 hubs though) stoked on my @WeAreOne
  • + 1
 @ybsurf: yeah man. I was able to grab a DT Swiss build and loving it.
  • + 1
 @nouseforaname: Gotcha, my bad
  • + 2
 Yeah We Are One with Hope hubs are 1500$ cad so that's about 1250 us + free shipping Canada AND usa! That's for a made in Canada rim... Pay a little more and you have Project 321 hubs!! For boxing day, they were even 20 (or 25?) % cheaper!! I don't want carbon rims otherwise it would be a no brainer!
  • + 3
 @plyawn: They are absolutely laid up in Canada. Even the molds are designed and manufactured in house. The website shows pictures of them laying them up in house I believe.
  • + 1
 I meant weareone sorry, not Tairin
  • + 2
 @labiker9: We Are One is the real deal, but Tairin uses Yishun rims. They claim to lace the wheels in house, but they're just reselling products you can buy directly from Yishun for less. That said, Yishun rims are among the nicest rims on the market, so I'm not saying it's a bad product.
  • + 1
 @nouseforaname: NOBL uses Light Bicycle rims and Tairin uses Yishun, just for the sake of accuracy. Both are good products, but I'd choose Yishun.
  • + 2
 @plyawn: @labiker9 no tairin wheels are handmade in Asia.
  • + 4
 @R-M-R: Our rims are designed and tested in BC, and engineered in conjunction with the factory engineers. We travel to the factory in Xiamen regularly to continue to develop our rims, in fact I'll be there for 3 weeks this month Smile We do not use off-the-shelf open mold product. Our molds are 100% owned by NOBL and just like our layup process, they are 100% unique to NOBL. We build our wheels in 2 locations, in Abbotsford, BC and also in Minnesota.
  • + 2
 @R-M-R: I'd choose WR1 over either, and I'm happy to be able to direct friends to a quality made in Canada product that is comparable in price to the made in Asia alternatives. But thanks for the clarification.
  • + 1
 @R-M-R: actually we hand build our wheels here in Surrey BC using our own hubs. We are a big advocate for hand laced wheels! Cheers~
  • + 1
 @nouseforaname:

Facebook pages says handlaid in Canada. That was the description of the rims only, not the wheelset.
  • + 1
 Sorry that was for weareone
  • + 87
 Sweet looking wheels that are made in the USA. Expensive? Yes. High quality? Undoubtably. A luxury item? Certainly. Necessary? No. A little quirky (spokes), the way many lux items are? Yes. Are there more affordable options? Yes.

Don’t like em? Don’t buy em.

Thanks, Enve, for hosting a tough set of questions on video.
  • + 6
 Thank you for the intelligent comment Speeder01
  • + 2
 I truly like your comment. I like em, don't buy em.
  • + 75
 Good interview. You asked them legitimate questions and pointed out common issues while being polite about it.
  • + 34
 Yep, great interview - I love seeing this type of content on Pinkbike.
  • + 10
 Always good stuff from Vernon. @pinkbike utilize this guy a little more often.
  • + 61
 For everyone complaining about price...remember these are made here in the US, to Western environmental standards, paying US employees a good wage. All those things many of the same people complaining about pricing also complain about. And plus, carbon bits are sexy and in demand. If nobody was buying them, Enve wouldn't make them.
  • + 93
 That my friends, is what makes it so amazing. People buy these things. Lots of people. It's almost like there is a whole group of people with money to spend on expensive parts, and they don't mind spending the kind of money that ENVE asks for. It may not be me, and it may not be you, and it may not be 99% of people you know, and it may be silly, but damn'it this is America and having choices are awesome, even if those choices represent the massive inequality and prevalent tastes of health care practitioners. Next time you're on the trail and see that uber serious rider shredding the gnar on his wunderbik you can thank him for supporting ENVE, filling your cavity, removing your appendix, representing you in the court of law, investing in the company that employees you, or for doing nothing at all but living off of the estate of their grandfather, but man, they've got sweet wheels.
  • + 24
 @bman33 they pay their employees shit. $9 an hour. I’ve known plenty of kids that worked there. The facility is right here in my city.
  • + 73
 @nmcmillan: isn't that like gold toilet level money in Ogden?
  • + 22
 @PHeller: Once one of these over-paid health care practitioners saves your life, kind of changes your perspective on things.
  • + 39
 @nmcmillan: They pay the kids who start out $9/hour as they should. And still that is better than $9/week in some Asian sweat shop. Experienced engineers, management and other assembly techs are paid accordingly, that is how it works.
  • + 39
 WeAreOne wheels are cheaper. But I guess they are made in the third world country that is the Canadia
  • + 15
 Weareone....better made, way cheaper, made in BC. Enve's are a propper rip off.
  • + 32
 @nmcmillan: Looks like the rest of the money goes to outfitting all the high ups in Arc'teryx.... Wink Now I really know why they cost to much.
  • + 6
 @weezyb: Ha!! I spotted that too!
  • + 18
 @weezyb: Amer owns Arc'teryx, in house EP
  • + 9
 @weezyb: www.amersports.com/brands it's the same company. I'm sure they got a good deal.
  • + 2
 @yacobczech: Thank you for the logic Yacobczech
  • + 12
 It saddens me to say it but US environmental standards are not the same as the rest of the West's.
  • + 5
 @Denning76: Way better than Asia and S. America. I have been to both and it's staggering how dirty areas outside the pretty tourist areas are.
  • + 2
 Some guys have bigger wallets than other guys. It makes the world go 'round.
  • + 3
 @bman33: Not to say it isn't part of the issue but environmental standards go way farther than the dirty streets and bits of trash cluttering up a sidewalk. Putting all that metal and plastic in a nice neat pile in a landfill doesn't make it any better.
  • - 2
 @SlodownU: The paramedic making $30k saves your life, the doctor swans in at the end to take the credit.
  • + 1
 @Fix-the-Spade: @Fix-the-Spade: Not true all the time brother. I have a couple friends studying medicine in the UK at the moment. Both of them are 2 of the smartest and most hardworking people I know. By the time they're qualified they'll have about £80k in student debt. It would be very unreasonable for them to get to the end of that and only be paid a mediocre salary. If the money wasn't decent at the end these talented and hardworking people would go into Business, Finance and Law instead and go make money hand over fist - and consequently the person performing the operation you or your loved one needs would be a lot less educated.
  • - 2
 @nmcmillan: why do those fools work for so little pay?
  • + 1
 @Gmang: Agree. However, I am talking about much deeper issues that just street level trash. Raw sewage dumped directly into local water (many Olympians wouldn't even train in the water near Rio for example), sketchy chemical handling, etc. Unless humans cease to exist or revert to caveman days, there will be manufacturing, buildings, etc. Room for improvement all the way around, but the US has much higher standards than much of the world despite what many enjoy to say.
  • + 2
 @tom666: Don't bring logic and compassion into this man, I was having fun being facetious.
  • + 26
 @SlodownU: I’ve said it long time ago, who the fk would hate on a dentist? A person who saves you excruciating pain.

I personally have no issues with doctors getting paid well, I have issues with nurses, paramedics, teachers, firemen and cops getting paid so little. It infuriates me. I don’t know why do these people even work considering the amount of sht they go through in daily basis.
  • + 1
 @bman33 Weareone are made in Canada with all the same standard and wages so what's their excuses.
  • + 4
 @bman33: $15hr minimum in California, we still call it slave labor!
  • + 3
 @ybsurf: I in no way was talking shit about Weareone. $400 per rim is still a shit ton of money for a rim compared to alloy. I don't know many with Weareone rims, so I don't know much about them. They look cool for sure. Enve has a name recognition maybe and maybe a bit more R&D costs/materials? Because they can and still see as much as they can? (Everyone here were charge more if they could). The ones made in Asia are probably made for $50 per rim (guessing here) were as ones made in N. America probably have between $200-$300 per rim in materials in labor. Asia is making money and so it N. America. In the end I am not bashing Weareone ...If Enve is such a shit company , don't buy from them. But apparently many do so there is something to them. I know local pros who beat the shit out of Enve here in Colorado with zero issues.
Yes they are $$$ but so is a Ferrari, and a high-rise condo with a view in Vancouver. I can't afford either one but I can still appreciate
  • + 2
 @drivereight: Haha...touche. Cali is ridiculous in many cities for cost of living.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: regardless (even irregardless) of what "fair pay" would be, money is not a prime motivating factor for why people do a job. Unless the pay is so low that they can't maintain the way of life they expect, they will continue to do that job.

Both policing and firefighter jobs have fairly obvious perks for the people they appeal to. Now being a paramedic requires an insane level of education and is a crazy job, which just goes to show that why they do it has nothing to do with pay.
  • + 5
 @bman33: Processed foods in the US have more additives and hi-tech ingredients when compared to their European equivalents. Many of these are banned outright in Europe. This is food, our most important sustenance we're talking about, so heaven knows what the US does with chemical handling, waste and such...

(it probably turns into chicken feed)
  • + 1
 @LuvAZ: haha fo sho!
  • + 2
 @dubod22: I agree, but never mentioned food not was saying our commercial food is superior in any way. If fact there is a large movement in the US away from the last 50 years of processed food. If you lived here instead of Hong Kong (at least your bio shoes that) you would be aware. I'm not saying "we're number one" either. That said, working conditions and environmental conditions are far ahead of much of Asia
  • + 2
 @bman33: I am fully aware of the movement away from processed food. I lived in Colorado for two years and I've frequented the Washington area since I was small so I get it. I love the PCC community markets around Seattle and Wholefoods seems pretty positive too. But there is still a huge percentage who will choose Walmart or Safeways over these. Europe is not perfect by any stretch and my native UK has had plenty of livestock issues in recent years.

I agree, for the most part, that conditions and standards are better than in China, but South Korea and Japan are very serious about these issues. To my original point, it's difficult to say one country is better when they are not the shining light of ethical and environmental integrity. We could all learn from each other and teach those unknown or oblivious (China, India, Brazil) about how to care for our earth and our people (that's not directed at you by the way)
  • + 4
 @friendlyfoe: I am aware of the research going into money incentive, however one has to look at it with a certain dosage of common sense. A person like me, an architect/ engineer isn’t exactly an emergency trade, it is also further down the list of actual necessities, if economy goes under for a longer period of time my service is quite unnecessary. I also do a relatively comfortable job, there are quite a few systems in place to cover up for my errors. I am extremely angry at the injustice going on in salaries in all sorts of state jobs, the system evidently exploits the sense of duty that characterizes the workers in sectors I mentioned before. We all know how well it goes for war veterans. This isn’t a fkng church or monastry, this is reality. There are some amazing people working in the daycare system, when they ask me to bring garbage ( cardboard, carpet samples) so they can have something for exercises with kids, while city goes on a fkng spree with road and train infrastructure, invests tens of millions in worthless city planning, sociologic research under umbrella of soical integrity, bringing everyone together, I get fkng mad. And this is Sweden, fkng rich and super happy country. People wait hours and hours at the emergency rooms in hospitals. Policemen who were securing some dumb EU meeting stood all day in rain and wind, and were given some shitty sandwich they didn’t dare to eat at lunch. It’s fkng preposterous and heartbreaking. I rarely show empathy but those people deserve more than I do, and I am pissed off that my taxes go to some stupid tunnel a d bridges that nobody needs. Meanwhile there are doctors like coworkers husband who work at 60% and the rest of the time he sings in a fkng opera. And he still earns more money than his wife who is a senior engineer.

I’ll put it like this, I wish I could have an ability to decide To which state departments my taxes should go. Control over let’s say 5% of my tax money.
  • + 1
 @Bahh: I like your name haha
  • + 1
 @bman33: I can say the same about large parts of the USA too.
  • + 2
 @friendlyfoe: pay, people, place, benefits package. Those are the top four prime motivating factors any person holds a job. Probably the order is different for each individual
  • + 2
 @Fix-the-Spade: Fun? Don't you know that you're not supposed to have fun here, this is a serious conversation? The only thing more dire and serious is when we start talking about wheel size and geometry.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: This doesn't explain all of human nature, but Maslow's hierarchy of needs provides a window into what motivates many people. As far as taxes, social, and financial inequality go, the issue is global and timeless. This has been going on for thousands of years, since man first devised a system of bartering and currency for goods and services. Apparently one greed competes with self actualization on Maslows hierarchy.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: that is the hope for direct democracy (EDD or DDD) in a modernized voting system. Imagine a system where we could upvote spending that we liked, and downvote spending that we didn't. My guess is that war would become a rarity and healthcare, education, and economic stability and wage growth would be priorities.
  • + 1
 @PHeller: In many countries you can decide what to do with 1% of your taxes. In my hometown in Poland this contributed to building a couple really good trails. However having a glimpse into what human nature is and how masses get manipulated by greedy and power hungry fks who didn't get laid at school, I don't think giving a bigger active control to people on how government spends their would bring any bigger change. People would be fooled into promoting rather stupid things. No healthy person wants to pay money to a doctor. You can reaad about western utopian ideas in book Free to Choose by Milton Friedman. This man proposed that absolute private control creates perfect competition, he has never grasped the idea that private business can become bigger than government and can dictate actual government to create regulations suiting it's corporate interest as a weapon against other private businesses, acting against people who supposedly have power (byt voting with their dolars) to control the corporation. So he is for deregulation since if there were no regulations how could corporations create regulations, which cries for a question, then who and how the fk can you make a regulation to not have regulations. No good ideas come through revolutions, rather painful and slow process of implementation with respect to existing structure, therefore I put Mr Friedman to the same corner as Marx, mrs Rand and other ideologists, that is: yes off course, off course... but maybe... So I'd say let me choose to which commons, 3-5% of my taxes should go. Like the fkng drive-in tax in my town, taking certain amount of money from car drivers for driving into the center. Ok, road infrastructure needs repairs fine. But I wish I could have a say that certain amount of this money goes to lowering prices for public transport. Because the reality is, they get money, pump it into new car related projects while public transport gets more and more expensive. I want the local gov control where my money goes to but at least slight control could be welcome.

@SlodownU - my Ghawd... what an intellectual conversation in the middle of fk your fking e-bike. Internet trembled
  • + 2
 @PHeller: It doesn't have to be that expensive to buy "local". I'm from Europe. For reasonable money I could get rims from Mavic, DT or Ryde, hubs and spokes from DT, (older) brakes and forks from Magura, British made steel hardtail, KMC chains... Heck, even Superstar makes some good stuff in house (in the UK). Sure there may be some stuff from other continents like gearing unless you get Pinion, Effi or Rohloff. Not sure whether the Sachs bit of SRAM still makes the higher end stuff in house. And I'm not sure about tires. But yeah if you really believe you "need" carbon-level lightweight full suspension everywhere you may arrive at a point where North American or European made becomes too expensive. But if you're really honest with yourself about what you actually need the same money easily buys you locally produced stuff.
  • + 0
 @vinay: spot on
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns:I appreciate your passion for injustice against hard working people, but typically the less hard you work the more you get paid. You get paid to make decisions that affect a large amount of people, which is a responsibility most wouldn't consider.
  • + 1
 @friendlyfoe: erm, my actions are very indirect, I’d say a nurse or daycare worker has more responsibility than I do. Even bridge designers won’t feel too much pressure these days, they design stuff with use of software and work in teams, there are several levels of checks whether the design works. I personally, if I fk up, then there is a financial risk for the office, that’s it. But if nurse fks up, consequences are immediate and rather ugly
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: maybe they haven't worked into your pay scale yet that a computer can do your job, but traditionally speaking that bridge costs tens of millions of dollars to build so paying someone competent to design it and make sure that tens of millions isn't wasted is just a fraction of the total cost
  • + 1
 @friendlyfoe: the amount of training and experience necessary is similar for engineers and nurses. In no more than 20 years computer will replace me. Empathy of a nurse, not really
  • + 0
 @friendlyfoe: The economics behind this are horribly real and really horrible. They have money invested in that bridge and money is everything. If a nurse messes up because of stressful conditions or just because everyone does every now and then, the consequences and suffering is for the patient and relatives. At worst their insurance has to pay something but that's it. In many cases the amount of money someone makes is largely related to how much money he or she makes a company. Doctors and dentists etc are actually the exception. I see no reason to join the collective PB hate against them no matter what bike they ride.

@WAKIdesigns: Just like empathy is hard to replace, so is the creativity of an engineer. But just as much as a computer can be programmed to do iterations and run optimizations, I do think that robots to some extend can be taught to do routines like bring food, even feed the patient if necessary, do checks like blood pressure etc. Yes empathy is on another level but a robot doing these basic checks and tasks is replacing some of what the actual nurse would do. Of course there is always the preference of a real person over a nurse but if the reasoning is "using these progressive technologies we can optimize our care and taylor it to demanding and aggressive patient, now and in the future". Now, that will leave you as baffled as a press release on Pinkbike.
  • + 0
 @vinay: I didn't mean that computer will do the wole job but it will do a big part of it, especially in typical designs in civil engineering and architecture. I did a fair number of housing projects and work closely with3d graphic designers who work a lot with parametric design. Yes everyone would love to think that every building is different and architects design them for days, sitting alone in huge empty office rooms, contemplating details in their black turtle neck sweaters and thick frame glasses. Reality is extremely repetitive and process has often a clear pipeline. Facade materials and window placement are in reality quite limited options. Also few projects deserve closer attention to aesthetics. most of the stuff we do is low budget functional stuff. Same for guys drawing bridges. It's not exactly about designing Golden Gate every second week... rather 25 generic bridges across highways.

A few people I spoke to who were hospitalized for various reasons told me that nurses do a hell of a job and my father owes his life to one, since doctor made a mistake writing 500 miligrams of whatever it was instead of 250.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: our society has certainly decided that, with the exception of highly skilled occupations, the highest paying jobs are based on the scope of decision making responsible for.

Most people I know who make multiple six figures have incredibly stressful jobs and make decisions with wide ranging implications for shareholders.
  • + 0
 @friendlyfoe: I understand the way the system works how you described. Our society hasn't decided anything, we are too stupid for such action. It is almost entirely an organic structure as natural as the fact we have little hair on our skins, like the fact where Solar System is located in Milky Way galaxy. What I am saying is, that unlike wishing for the fact that it could be better to have another habitable planet nearby, and next star system being 10 times closer, without disrupting the balance of bodies in the system, we as humans can look forward to improve things for ourselves within our socioeconomic and policial realm. That without a slightest notion whether free will exists or not. I personally thank people for their efforts, like I did to the doctor who helped my daughter in the middle of the night last week. I was clear about the fact how happy I am that he was out of bed, helping my daughter with her silly ear inflammation. And I don't do it to be come out as an enlightened dude, I do it in hope that this dude will be this tiny bit happier and eager to keep helping others, feeding the butterfly effect I hope will be playing in favor of mine and my family. I don't want to be empathic for some transcendental reason. I'm too dead inside for that.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: used to make 400eur/month as a teacher in a village of 100% roma/gipsy inhabitants. Teen pregnancy, drug abuse, domestic violence, child prostitution, child abuse.. name it. Got tired of it/burned out after a few years. Now working in retail with a masters degree of geography-environmental science. But i won a Nomad3 which is nice.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: that's basically the definition of enlightened. That you actually create more for yourself by growing a given system than by being selfish. On a macro scale big business is still struggling to learn this lesson, where there are obvious rewards. On the micro scale many people are motivated by fear and greed, of which I am not holding my breath waiting for that to change
  • + 1
 @mattbrown9:

You guys are exactly right. They're the "luxotica" of the sports realm... just as Luxotica owns over 90% of anything eyewear in this world.
  • + 52
 imagine every engineer in enve waking up in the on morning, thinking how can i make the best wheel possible. LUL
  • + 21
 Yeah shit I just ask what I'm gonna have for breakfast...
  • + 4
 @Denning76: Denning coming up with the real questions that matter!
  • + 6
 It's an exaggeration that is for sure, and it also doesn't do anything for the fact that every companies engineers say the same thing, because if they don't, they are fired.
  • + 21
 @Rasterman: I'm convinced that Enve's engineers wake up in the morning with the same thoughts most of us do - coffee, take a dump, feed the dog, get the kids to school, put out the recycling, what have you. But I also don't find it too much of a stretch that they, like most people I know who work on challenging/technical problems, do a fair amount of thinking about how to do things better, and takea fair amount of pride in their work.
  • + 10
 Peter Gibbons takes fair amount of pride in his work at Initech.
  • + 4
 @Ron-C: He got the memo, but just forgot the cover for the TPS report. Honest mistake. People need to give him a break
  • + 46
 I cracked both of my Enve rims on the same exact section of rocky trail within 10 days of each other. These were pre-M Series wheels on a 29er Tallboy that I bought from a shop in Utah. The bike was pre-built with the Enve wheels already installed. When I contacted Enve about warranty replacement on my 8 month old bike, they denied my claim because I never registered the wheels. When I asked how I was supposed to register them, they told me there was serial number on the INSIDE on the rim. So they expected a consumer who just bought a brand new bike, set up tubeless to take the tire off to find the serial number? Stupid, stupid, stupid design and of course they never came thru on their "warranty".
  • + 18
 But you can tell how reliable they are because only 2% of customers returned wheels for impact damage. Right?
  • + 8
 That's lame!
  • + 4
 if true, that's veeery very lame from @ENVE
  • + 5
 Registering products should not have anything to do with warranty. I thought that was a law that prohibited such practice. Maybe not. No matter, thats a terrible way to handle things and if there isn't more to the story, its a very good reason to look elsewhere for anything they sell.
  • + 6
 Hahaha enve stuff sucks anyway
  • + 7
 Nope he said they accepted warranty returns on 2%, Big difference @phobospwns:
  • + 6
 @sewer-rat: Exactly all the others the refused to honour claiming user misuse no doubt
  • + 1
 @CM999: Well yeah, but this was clearly misuse. He was riding down the K2 on 29" wheels designed for the Tallboy bicycle. It was clearly stipulated in the specs, don't ride down the K2 on these. They'll crack within ten days within each other. He was warned. Now what did @k2rider1964 do exactly...
  • + 39
 Vernon, when Sarah Lehman hit you with an ethical argument about why outsourcing production to asia is bad, did you ask her why they make all of their forks and components in asia?

Like, if muslims being burned in Myanmar means you shouldn't make rims in asia, why make all of your other stuff there? It's a hypocritical argument...
  • + 17
 You are missing the point. This wasn't an ethical argument against manufacturing in Asia. We are part owners of a great factory in Asia and in no way are trying to disparage the practice. It was an example used to highlight one of the flaws of chasing cheap labor. There are many reasons we make wheels in Utah, but one of the primary reasons is to protect our wheel technologies.
  • + 36
 Aah, Myanmar...I was wondering where Miramar was
  • - 9
flag Coldspringer (Jan 9, 2018 at 9:45) (Below Threshold)
 I like that they make wheels in the U.S., but I do not appreciate that their other stuff is overseas, so I will never buy their other stuff, and if I ever decide to buy Carbon rims instead of alloy ones from Velocity, they will be ENVE's.
  • + 20
 @Coldspringer: "...do not appreciate that their other stuff is overseas, so I will never buy their other stuff..."

Please enlighten us with all the other parts on your bike that aren't made overseas.
  • + 6
 @metaam: That's what I heard, too. Even rewound once. WTF
  • + 3
 @metaam: LOL. Exactly what i was thinking.
  • + 13
 I was thinking the same thing. The Myanmar comment was undoubtedly a strawman argument.
  • + 7
 @ENVE: right on. Many people might not understand just how much Intellectual Property theft occurs in these factories. The fact that they pulled alibaba up and showed how many rip-offs exist, proves the point in-and-of-itself.
  • + 8
 @ENVE: Kudos to you for hosting PB and answering so tough questions about your product. We can be a tough crowd over here....haha
  • + 5
 @boardjnky4: @boardjnky4: I study Sports Technology and my lecturers have told us time and time again how intellectual property isn't really respected in Asia. There's a major cultural gap on that issue. You go over to a factory there for a meeting, working for Adidas maybe, and they bring a tonne of samples they've been making for Puma and Asics and ask if you'd be interested in something similar. Great reason for Enve to keep their production in the US - but it's hard for them to do it for that mostly selfish reason and then claim the moral high ground on employing the US.
  • + 14
 @endlessblockades: Miramar - where Maverick teaches top gun school. If this were true, not a better place to buy fast wheels from
  • + 7
 @ENVE: Actually, Sarah's statement about Muslims being killed in Myanmar WAS an ethical argument against manufacturing in Asia. That's exactly what it was. She was ill-prepared for the question, and citing IP protection would have come across a lot better.
  • + 7
 They answered nearly all questions with deflection or polished marketing BS. Not overly endearing.
  • + 6
 Be it constant "intervention" in foreign countries, domestic or police shootings, Im pretty sure the US has a muuuuch higher civilian death toll than Myanmar....The US moral high ground ended long ago I'm sorry to say
  • + 10
 “You might know it as Myanmar but it’ll always be Burma to me”
  • + 8
 @ENVE "We are part owners of a great factory in Asia and in no way are trying to disparage the practice."

Wait, really? When Sarah said 'The owners came together and looked at each other and said "We CAN'T do that!" You can only seek cheap labour for so long.' That wasn't disparaging asian manufacturing?
  • + 1
 @ENVE: you say you are part owners of an Asian factory..so if you pay people in Ogden Utah $9 /hour, what ungodly low amount do you pay factory workers in Asia, and still charge such high prices for your plastic rims?
  • + 6
 @iamamodel: There is always a lot of video footage (about 98 percent of what we shot) that does not make it into these videos because of length considerations. As @ENVE mentioned, concerns over intellectual property being taken and given to competitors (a legitimate risk when outsourcing your production) was something Lehman brought up on several occasions and which will be covered in the podcast.

Why didn't I include it in the video? Again, length. At 12 minutes long, my videos tend to be more than twice the length of typical cycling-media videos and I know there are people who never click the PLAY button when they see the double-digit time signature. So, I left it out. Per usual, there's always some content that, after the video goes live, I wish I'd kept in. This is one of those moments because the intellectual property issue is an interesting topic in and of itself. We will, however, cover it in the podcast at some length.
  • + 1
 @vernonfelton: Can't wait for your podcast!
  • + 1
 @ENVE: Then why didn't she just say that? "We don't want to manufacture our wheels in Asia because we want to protect our IP". FWIW, I think it is a smart move. Plus, the "Made in U.S.A" is another great branding strategy that helps justify a higher price. Nothing to be ashamed of there, so why not cop to it?
  • + 2
 @thorsbane: Per my earlier response, we filmed several hours worth of footage and then were faced with the proposition of parsing it down to a digestible amount. A lot of commentary wound up on the cutting room floor--the inevitable and annoying part of the editing process--but will be included in the audio podcast. That extends to Sarah Lehman's discussion of intellectual property and the risk of losing it (or, really, having it stolen) when you have your product made overseas. Stay tuned.
  • + 2
 @MTBrent: I suppose I have been including the UK and Germany in my non-overseas list, so I guess I really mean not east asia. I have chris king (made in Portland, OR) and cane creek (Made in the U.S.) bearings on my bike, velocity rims (Made in the U.S.), Hope Pro4 hubs (made in Barnoldswick, U.K.), I tried to use wheelsmith spokes (apparently manufactured in Milwaukee) when building my wheels but they do not come in the length I needed, so I bought DT (made in east Asia I believe), hope tech E4 brakes (manufactured in U.K., Odi grips (Made in U.S.), an MRP ribbon (internals made in Colorado), Continental Der Baron and Trail king tires in black chili compond (made in Germany), and a thompson stem and seatpost collar (made in Macon Georgia). I could not run 30mm white industries cranks with my pf24 bb, so I bought used cranks to avoid supporting east asia, and also a used rear derailleur and shifter for the same reason. I bought a chinese made Bontrager Dropline and Renthal Fatbar because I am a weakling, and a buddy of mine gave me my frame and rear shock for free, but I hope to soon ride a Guerrilla Gravity Smash.
  • + 1
 oh and also I tried a Hope 11-44 cassette (made in U.K.), but it wore out within 25 hours or riding, so I warrenteed it, and the same happened again, so I sold out and am now on a Chinese/Taiwanese sram cassette, and I have a Chinese/Taiwanese pc-x1 chain.
  • + 1
 MIRAMAX
  • + 1
 @vernonfelton: or when you bring in an OEM without an NDA and they jack your shit.
  • + 35
 "additional functionality that improves the tubless experience". We'll if that isn't bullshit from marketing then I don't know what is!
  • + 22
 You can trust him dude, he has a great beard and “winter is here”
  • + 25
 ? No. I think youre getting confused. Marketing bullshit is when TLD calls their ventilation holes “pressurized intake passages”... their vents. Here, see for yourself. ( m.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-2016-troy-lee-designs-helmet-collection.html ) Enve is just saying they made their rim a little better in general and made it also better for tubeless. Thats it. Seems that they have too.
  • + 8
 I don't see the problem with what they are saying. Not over the top, easy to understand, and to top it off seems to be a very true statement.
  • + 2
 @thuren: how exactly do they quantify/measure functionality and improved tubeless experience?
  • + 10
 @edreyes: If your tubeless tire has less chance of flatting, because of the improved rim design, I would say that that has improved your tubeless experience right?
  • + 1
 @edreyes: Its simple. Impove off of the predecessor. That already is advancing in function. And with the tubeless side of things, well they obviously did something to prevent it. So with that, they improved it. Its not rocket science. Theyre trying. Im proud if the company for coming up with something somewhat creative. If you had these you could throw a massive foam ring in, instead. That would suck compared to these wheels and their function.
  • + 13
 I believe Jake was talking about the fact that the tubeless setup process on the new stripped rims is much improved over previous Enves and competing products. The primary purpose of the strips is to eliminate pinching/bead damage, but they ALSO make setup and long-term tubeless reliability much better. No tape, no leaks.

I've been testing these and earlier versions for almost two years. They are so good!
  • + 5
 @NoahColorado: Thanks for the feedback--good to hear from someone who's been actively riding them for a long time now. We've got a set in the test cycle, but we're a ways off from having the mileage we want for a full review. Just curious, Noah, which wheels are you running? The M730s? Have you tried the non-rim strip (just wider rim bead) M630 or M635s?
  • + 19
 You can know a lot about a company based on how they “restrain” their marketing talk during interviews and features. Here’s how we interpret the various interviews featured in PB over the years:

YT: “We sell a ton of cheaper bikes that allowed us to afford Gwin. Just don’t tell him that he really has no say in the design and development of our bikes.”

Hope: “We are engineering nerds and addicted to cnc. So now, we’ll make an enduro bike a bunch of engineering geniuses could hope to make. We just hope they think it looks cool though.”

Santa Cruz: “Yeah our bikes are expensive, but there’s no price for being cool. You can take that lifetime warranty to the bank homey.”

Ohlins: “We’re pretty sure that Fox and Rockshox, hell DVO, have better suspension currently. But plan to put that Moto money to good use.”

Intense: “Our bikes rip off Santa Cruz, our suspension rips off Santa Cruz. Heck, even our DH team rips off the Syndicate. Sonwe aske ourselves: why on earth people aren’t still buying our bikes? So here’s our pitch: You can now by our previously Santa Cruz priced bikes at half the price! Same old rip off, better on your pocket.”

Enve: “We build our rims in the US. Does that make our product better than those made by cheap Asian labor hence the price? We have no damn clue. Have you seen our test rig? Just don’t tell them.”
  • + 4
 @vernonfelton: Yes, M730s for quite some time. I haven't been on the other new ones, but my wife has been on 525s since August. I haven't had to touch them except to change worn out tires, I call that a win. My wife rode 7,800 miles last year for reference. Smile
  • + 1
 @almacigatrailrider: yet people are just fine buying made in America Intense bikes (when they were), but not made in America carbon wheelz. You people make no sense whatsoever
  • + 32
 Greg Minnaar had a great season on enves. lol
  • + 4
 Lol, exactly!
  • + 7
 @SoCalMTBiker: Yeah. I wonder what Gregg has to say about their pinch flat proof wheels.
  • + 5
 one blow up at val di sole? he threw the season away before then!
  • + 6
 Greg failed what? One wheel? if greg is only failing one tire/wheel in a season, i wouldnt feel too bad about riding it. i still cant justify the price, but world cup guys are putting bikes through serious abuse
  • + 8
 @adrennan: his rear tire blew off in Cairns too
  • + 31
 I want to trim that goofy beard so badly my leg started twitching.
  • + 8
 Yep. I am never one to comment on physical appearance, but that beard...
  • + 8
 The product manager on the far left started out relaxed but was twitching uncontrollably by the end. And he wasn't the only one uncomfortable with the marketing manager's answers.
  • + 1
 @Marc2211: gash, isn't it
  • + 30
 well that was embarrassing and uncomfortable for everyone involved. good job pb!
  • + 3
 Lol my favorite part was Vernon talking in the airport and the other people looking at him like “wtf is he on about”
  • + 27
 @sosburn: Got a lot of that. The tough part was the number of people who walk up to you in the middle of the monologue and ask you what you are doing. Not like airport security, but you know, just somebody's uncle wandering back to the waiting area after visiting the men's room.

"Er, I'm talking to a guy who is holding a video camera and I'm wearing a microphone, so until you jumped in the frame and started talking to me, I was making a video...but that was then and this is now. So, yeah, thanks for that."

Can't say that I understand humans at all.
  • + 2
 @vernonfelton: rude yes, but also sounds like good b-roll/outtake footage... tell Vince to keep it rolling!
Nice work guys, this is good stuff.
  • + 2
 @vernonfelton: The population in SLC is too friendly, sorrrrrrrrryyyyy geez
  • + 19
 I can comment first hand on poor customer experience with Enve. I had an M series wheel fail catastrophically in a g-out a few years back. Sounded like someone fired a shotgun, tire blew off and got caught in my rear triangle. I was going fast at the time it took me about 100 m to come to a stop riding on the rim. Anyways took it to my shop they said should be warranty no problems as they have seen Enve replace even known impact damage wheels (even the wheel Pinkbike broke in the review was replaced under warranty). Nope.. Only response I got was impact damage $800+ rebuild labour. I tried to call and explain I had to ride the rim trying to come to a stop so damage occurred afte, they didn't want to hear it at all.I left messages no response, shop tried to explain also and it didn't go anywhere. I gave up and moved on to a company which actually cares about its customers. They proved to me "Made in America" is dead.
  • + 6
 ship it back to them anyways. Tell them it is a late Christmas present.
  • + 2
 @elshadow: they still have it I think lol. They wanted my to pay to ship the broken rim back. I never responded.
  • + 4
 Enve is junk
  • + 22
 So that’s who Kenda sell their tyres to!! Case solved
  • + 0
 Yeah!! Who rides Kendas??? lol
  • + 18
 The sole purpose of these wheels is to make your non-dentist friends jealous. I mean, come on, they are literally named ENVY.
  • + 7
 no, theyre literally named “ENVE”
  • + 3
 I wonder if they'll ever make a budget version for dental assistants?
  • + 15
 Nice to see that Enve made so many of their staff available to you, and didn't hide any of their manufacturing processes from the camera. All signs of a very responsible company, that we can hope will find manufacturing efficiency in the future to bring costs down.
If you ever have a chance visit an aluminum smelter or extruder to see if you have the same confidence in the material as you have today. I was the manufacturing manager for one of the worlds largest extruders, yes we did tubes for bike frames, and got to visit a smelter in Evansville Indiana. I was excited to see the science and magic in the making of 6061 T3, and other exotic blends. Sadly the bubble was burst in seeing the product was blended/mixed by adding the components one scoop at a time from the bucket of a front end loader. Final adjustments where done with the aide of a shovel to add or remove product. Today many of the extruders do not exist in North America as it is cheaper to buy the complete profile out of the far east than the aluminum billet in North America.
I would love to see PB to a complete product cycle visit to Giant to show the science of aluminum. They are the biggest and probably the best in the industry with all things aluminum. They also don't suck with carbon.
  • + 15
 1. Don't use simple passwords like they do.
2. Don't put this password on a post it note on the monitor
3. If you must do #2, take down said post it note for a media interview.
4. Lets just say its a valid login for something very easy to find and try. Don't re-use passwords.

They may make great wheels, but they could spend some of that $2,500 per wheel set to make IT improvements. Hey, Enve...I'll consult for wheels.
  • + 15
 WE ARE ONE. 100% Canadian made by passionate mountain bikers. 5 yr no questions warrant. A fraction of the cost and built without compromise. Even more of a bargain with the USD vs CAD
  • + 16
 Did that marketing dude just tell Vernon his panties were in a wad over questions of vertical compliance testing?
  • + 10
 No, he was referring to people that don't understand the physics of the test and assume that since it's only 85lbs. it doesn't have any relevance to the real world.
  • + 5
 I think he was talking about the PinkBike commentariat.
  • + 2
 @ENVE: I would have like to have heard an explanation of how the 85lb static test extrapolates to a real-world, dynamic environment. Sounds like the marketing guy started down that road but, then said that the static test is a way to baseline and benchmark old vs new vs competitors rims. That's different.

The design engineer also eludes to this when outside. He mentions they understand how the static test 'relates to' real world conditions. I am guessing the full-nerd version was never discussed or maybe ended up on the cutting room floor.

What say you @vernonfelton ? Did the design guy bust out the Matlab sims and Dirac functions? Any chance we get into some more deets on the podcast?
  • + 2
 @ENVE: I'm guessing that an 85 lb drop from 9" is over 2x the force of the 5" drop. Kudos for the progress over the past gen. Also, I'm guessing that 9" drop on a non-suspended wheel and tire is a greater force than 99% of riders ever put on their wheel.
  • - 2
 @dsirl: they are confused, that IS a dynamic test. Anything with a drop weight is dynamic, so I smell bull shit too.
A static test would load hydraulically or with ever increasing numbers of test weights whilst in total contact at all times.
The yield strength is unbelievably low. No mention of tyre pressures either.
  • + 1
 @yeti-monster: "Static" in as the parameters of the test are the same over several product development cycles.
  • + 2
 @dsirl: I was also a little disappointed that they couldn't correlate how the actual force of the test related to a real world impact
  • + 1
 First, I thought that comment was funny as hell; however I wish the PM's response could have clarified or put into layman's terms how the test translates into "real world" impact. Instead, he indirectly referenced dynamic vs. static load testing (arms and suspension) and then ended with, "well, its how we test it". For a simpleton like me, he could have stated that it would be equivalent to a 200lb mountain biker casing a landing on a straight edge curb at 20mph off a 15ft jump or whatever, like Danny did in the Santa Cruz vid Smile
  • + 3
 @pmhobson: I actually do these tests for a living. That is a dynamic test. Keeping the test the same is a 'standard' like ASTM or British standards. Semantics aside, still surprisingly little load to bust a rim. We do this with strain gauges, accelerometers and digital scanning for better quality data and feedback for simulation modelling.
  • + 1
 @yeti-monster: I know that. I'm telling you want the guy meant.
  • + 15
 Miramar ≠ Myanmar
  • + 11
 When the marketing guy is talking 80% of the time and say, foot on the table "We don't need to apologize for the first generation M-Series" you know something is wrong in what you are watching.
  • + 1
 I don't know. I would rather they be candid. Let the middle managers make mistakes in interviewing rather than hide behind the execs like they did towards the end. For me this whole thing made Enve feel more human to me, and I appreciate that; although all the reports of warranty denial worries me a bit.
  • + 11
 Only 2% returns i'm amazed. I only know 2 people in my town who have enve carbons and 1 of them broke, so 50% that I know of anyway.
  • + 7
 Doesn't that make 25%?
2 riders
4 wheels
1 broke
  • + 6
 You're not half the boy
that Nate was.

You're not even half the boy
that the top half of Nate was...

...after you cut him in half.

So you're saying I'm less than
a quarter of the boy Nate was?
  • + 10
 Only 2% of returned wheels were warrantied (presumably) for impact. That guy works in marketing, you need to read between the lines when they talk. Especially when mesmerized by the beard. haha
  • + 5
 @cky78: the beard just masks the Bullshit spewing forth when the gums and lips flap together when he talks
  • + 3
 2% is scary high and not close to acceptable. That would be like saying that 1 in 50 Boeing Carbon Fibre aircraft crashing is acceptable. Also read between the lines, the 2% are only the wheels returned to Enve, not everyone returns products for warranty, or are the original registered owner of the product.
  • + 0
 @cky78: 2% is definitely far from six sigma; but the way my cynical self interpreted it was: "we've denied a bunch of returns so we were able to keep the numbers down to 2% and report on that as a successful measurement of our rim's durability". Honestly, I would rather they report 22% returns but excel at customer satisfaction than report 0.0000002% returns but come by those numbers dishonestly.
  • + 2
 @bikes4kids: Actually it is NOT AT ALL like saying 2% of Boeing aircraft crashing is acceptable.

You have to factor in the Severity of the event here...They aren't talking about total rim collapse (have you seen one?). A crack in the hook of a bike rim is far less severe than taking hundreds of people to their death. Although if it's your $3,000 wheelset, it may feel that way to you.

If you wanted to push the impact return rate down to well below sub six sigma levels...you'd have to overbuild the wheel so much that you'd prefer not to ride it. Aircraft operate in much more of a controlled environment than bicycle components...Mandated Pre-Flight Checks, Regulated Maintenance intervals and standards, better modeled and understood use conditions.

My strong suspicion is that that 2% is inclusive of everyone who has actually contacted ENVE or their distributors about a cracked rim from an impact while riding...or crashing.
  • + 8
 @vernonfelton are you meaning to tell us that you either A) have a podcast channel and I simply did not know about it, or B) that you are starting a podcast channel for Pinkbike or yourself? Either way this is super intriguing, and I am looking forward to the finished product for this episode.
  • + 3
 Take door number 2
  • + 14
 I'm working on things.... Cheers.
  • + 9
 @vernonfelton: Very InTrigued. An originaL idea.
  • + 3
 @vernonfelton: you should review ibis 742's. Crazy strong, half the price, indestructible....oh wait, not really a story there
  • + 1
 @vernonfelton: as the guy at 2:20 playing with the stripper, I listen to podcasts all friggen day. Yes plz. Already listened and enjoyed the sit down with industry folks.
  • + 2
 @joebmx88: Thanks for listening to the first podcast and glad you liked it. I've got a gang of audio to work through, but there is a lot of interesting commentary about the wheels, intellectual property, costs, etc. Should be worth a listen.
  • + 7
 I've been lucky enough to own Enve wheels. In fact, I've owned "Chinese" carbon wheels as well and I've gained the following perspective...Carbon wheels feel great, be it Enve or "Chinese" carbon wheels. They are light so they spin up quick, they are stiff which minimizes flex and to me, carbon wheels take out some of the harsh trail feedback some alloy wheels give. But, all carbon wheels will break. If you haven't broken a carbon wheel yet, congrats to you...

So my stance now is, the only carbon wheel worth buying is one with an unconditional warranty. If you're gonna fork out a couple G's, you better get something back. Because marginal performance gain isn't enough to justify paying 3x more for... Just saying
  • + 2
 Santa Cruz Reserves are my next wheels.
  • + 3
 Why don't you get I9 wheels then? They're about as light, really stiff (at least with their straightpull hubs), cheaper than carbon and look pretty much the same..... but look even better with some color spokes!
  • + 2
 This should be the top comment!

"...the only carbon wheel worth buying is one with an unconditional warranty." So true.
  • + 0
 @Timo82: because there’s no such thing as an alloy rim/wheel with a lifetime warranty...
  • + 1
 @Timo82: I do love my I9s, though, don’t get me wrong. Smile
  • + 1
 @cdubb30 I agree. I rode I9 wheels for the last 7 years. Got my first carbon wheels, Bontrager Line Pro 40's So good..... f*cking amazing what carbon hoops do, and a lifetime unconditional warranty
  • + 1
 @MrDiamondDave: You saw a big difference between those two??? But I don't know if 7 years ago, I9 wheels were as strong as now?

But do carbon rims only crack or they ''explode'' and you finish with a OTB and teeth missing? lol
  • + 2
 @Timo82: I had the lastest Enduro 305 set, awesome wheels, had previous Enduros, trail and custom Legacy to Flow EX rims over the years. I'll say carbon hoops are so much stiffer, I feel as now the Carbon durability is there. I swear there is a difference,. I don't think I will break a rim, if I do I'll let everyone know.... I feel like a can hit everything just as hard and charge rock gardens and drops with no worries at all.
  • + 7
 OK, OK - it costs more to manufacture in the west but explain to me how a carbon wheelset made in Utah, with a minimum wage of $7.25 costs $3,000 USD while I can get a set of WeAreOne wheels for literally half that in CAD pesos from a province with higher labour costs, taxes and input costs?

It's OK to make a boutique product and sell it at designer prices, but don't polish a turd and tell me it's worth more.
  • + 9
 I really wanted them to throw an aluminum rim on that test rig to see how much it dented
  • - 4
flag yeti-monster (Jan 9, 2018 at 13:01) (Below Threshold)
 The ally rim would break the rig.... Do higher than 5 inches anyway
  • + 2
 I think that would have been a good way to show the increased strength of their wheels (or not!) - have Vernon bring an aluminium/carbon competitors rim (presumably de-stickered for legal reasons) of his choice, mounted to the same hub with spokes at the same tension/lacing, the same tyre, etc.

I think the test is quite relevant as it shows how well the wheel deals with a good square edged hit, and yes the new rim seems better than the old one, but this was a good chance to prove that their rims are superior and they haven't...
  • + 6
 How does a CEO get to be a CEO with such garbage answers like "every day our engineers wake up and ask themselves how they can make the best wheel possible"?

What company wouldn't say that? Reads like bullshit marketing gibberish. At least the lower-down guys are trying their hat at giving some real answers.
  • + 16
 Pretty standard for the corporate world, I'd say.
  • + 8
 Isn't that the answer taught in MBA school?
  • + 10
 She certainly wouldn't be CEO if she said, "Yea, we've got decent engineers I guess. They make a good product allegedly. I'm not a fan but hey, to each his own I suppose." What do you want her to say?
  • + 3
 sounds like Apple marketing BS
  • + 5
 I hope they will now launch a trail certification program. When you make all the stones look like their test machine (i.e. with a well rounded tip), then you get Enve certified and all dentists form the whole continent will pay you for the privilege of riding this awesome trail. Even better, you could also buy some carbon stones, i heard they give much better ride quality than normal ones.
  • + 5
 I like Enve and have a fair bit of their product on my bikes but a friend of mine double pinch flatted the new rims with the strip and cracked one of the rims at the same time only a few rides in from new.
Also who can forget the influence that pinch flats had on Minaar's WC season this year? Surely he was on the new tech. So yeah. I'm still calling bullshit on the durability issue.
  • + 6
 Thanks, that was some good content. My personal take away.... keep it local if you can. WEAREONE get my Canadian business and their product is -in my experience- second to none.
  • + 5
 I want to be an ENVE fan boy. I really appreciate that they are made in America. It's worth it to me to pay more so that my neighbors have a job. I don't doubt they are better than Light Bicycle or Santa Cruz or whoever else is making the flavor of the month third-world carbon wheels.

But are they THAT much better? This video didn't convince me that it's worth paying their premium. I am not convinced that you are paying for anything more than the ENVE brand. The 85lb test rig was really lame and not confidence inspiring at all.

It seems like they realized that most people that buy their rims can't ride and complained they were too stiff so they made the new ones more compliant. As a result, people that actually ride hard break them.

They still seem like baubles for people who want to signal that they have the disposable income to spend 12 grand on a bike.

Also, I would much rather read a whole bunch of words in three minutes than watch a 12 minute video.
  • + 1
 @wibblywobbly: ^^^100%. Enve makes some nice stuff, however I have seen far too many of their rims/wheels break for me to consider them. My personal experience with carbon rims was in fact excellent. I built a set of 27.5 LB heavy duty 35's onto Hadley hubs with Sapim race spokes 32h. They were absolutely bombproof for my nearly three years on them. Plus, considering that I am over 200 lbs and had them on 160mm travel sled that I ride like an angry bear this is impressive. They never once flatted, burped any air or came out of true. The only time a spoke broke was from a stick getting caught in the wheel. I'd still be on them today if had not changed wheel size. My investment on these was just under a $1000. In the same period of time I had friends break, ENVE's, Atomiks, Nox, SRAM and others. Their costs were generally more than double what I paid. ENVE and some of the others may have better warranties, but I'd rather be riding than thinking about RA numbers. Interestingly, last year Vital put over two years on a handbuilt set of LB's for a DH bike that remained trouble free too. BTW, I think the absolute best product ENVE makes is their cross fork.
  • + 8
 2% for warranty returns, does that include the ones that you will not cover and you offer a "crash replacement" rim?
  • + 6
 He was referencing RAs - Return Authorizations. To me that sounds as though the 2% were the total number of wheels returned to them for evaluation. The number warrantied would be lower that that. If the 2% didn't include the ones not covered and offered crash replacement (or no accommodation) instead, that would be pretty misleading.

Carbon composites, no matter how well made, tend to have an inherent tendency to the odd materials defect. 2% for a part where weight and strength and 'feel' are competing in design tradeoffs seems pretty good. I'm comparing this to carbon masts and booms in windsurfing (my main sport) - a 2% return rate for those is considered evidence that you're doing it right. You could overbuild, and maybe get it down to 1% (there's always some residual risk even with appropriate use, and there's always the odd bit of inappropriate use), but then you'd be unable to sell any (as they'd be mediocre on performance).
  • + 5
 I LIKE how the marketing guy is the one who speaks the mosts while the guys that are actually doing the designing look downright uncomfortable doing the interview. Not making eye contact and nervous body language. They probably went expecting Vernon to ask the kind of questions which he did. Which is good. And what does having 5700 Muslims killed have anything to do with carbon wheel manufacturing . Im hundred percent sure the people from the factory had nothing to do with it. That's like saying we won't manufacture in the USA because the cops in America kill so any innocent people.
  • + 2
 now a days I don't care where it's made, I want a good product
  • + 6
 WE ARE ONE Carbon wheels 5 years no questions asked warranty and ton of money cheaper, respect for Enve for keeping it USA made, but eventually Bike companies won't supply these wheels on their top builds because of cost.
  • + 5
 Everytime there is a post about wheels we can count on one thing. the one and only inevitable..... DUN DUN DUUUUNNNN.... We Are One Advertisement post.
  • + 2
 @2bigwheels: Similar to the way YT pops up in every semi-expensive bike review.
  • + 2
 @TheR: No no no... you mean, How YT pops up in every f*cking bike review? lol
  • + 6
 Great Video.. love the manufacturing side of the bike industry. Made in America comes at a price.. well worth the price considering everything in the bike industry is made overseas. Good job Enve for keeping it local!
  • + 6
 Vernon makes good videos. Bike's Bible is a little lamer without him. Anyhow, my temporary break from PB price whining is over, so - damn those wheels are expensive.
  • + 7
 This years Bible of the Bike Tests is the first time they have done a somewhat good job without Vernon. Bike losing Vernon was Bike losing its soul. Mike Ferrentino's Grimy Handshake is the only truly good part of Bike Mag now.
  • + 2
 @2bigwheels: Ya, I like Ferrentino's writing, and he is good on-camera. And I like Palmer as well. Wait a minute. I said my break from price-complaining was over. Look what you made me do, 2bigwheels....
  • + 8
 Show me all the cars in the employee lot
  • + 2
 I don't have drone footage but I can guess in no specific order: Tesla, Bmw, Mercedez Sprinter 4x4 (custom)
The real question should be: Show me the Bike Rack out front.
  • + 1
 @Mouthfullofpennies:
I'm pretty sure that was referring to the entry and middle level employees cars as a rough measure of their employment conditions
If you want to check the relevance, have a look in your local fast food restaurant employee carpark, there won't be any Tesla's, and probably some bald tyres.
  • + 2
 @andrew9,
that and the how deep the commitment to "Made in the USA by US Co's" runs. Talk is just that most of the time.
  • + 4
 okay sorrry but wtf?

doesnt a snakebite occur by the tube being pinched between the rim flanges and the impacting object? Why are they dropping the weight in to the rim bead and not onto the rim flanges like basically every snakebite happens when you smash your rear wheel into rock edges?
  • + 1
 Because their rounded profile smooth metal weight gives them the results they want. It's just a knock-off of what was used in the Santa Cruz carbon frame testing video on YouTube. What they won't show is a rim strike on sharp rocks (shale for instance), nor will they show any rim compliance testing; the roadie on the far left when Vernon was asking them about compliance is why their rims are so damn stiff - they want to feel noticeably stiffer and that more power is being delivered to help rationalize their exorbitant pricing.
  • + 6
 I've killed 2 tires on the orig huck norris and 1 tire on the dh huck norris in the last 9 months. That shit is snake oil, just adding weight for no reason.
  • + 3
 Damn I have a pair and so does 3 of my other buddies. All of us cracked the rims and had to get them warrantied. 100%failure in my book. But they have a great warranty process. I have a set of M50 wheels they ride great, YEAH they are stiff but FAST, but not worth $3000. They also need to back their wheels with a Lifetime Warranty if they think they are the best, or a no question asked policy like Raceface and Reynolds.
  • + 3
 I have a pair and I do love them dearly. I know they are made in the USA, with awesome quality and customer care. I can't help to highlight the company's main focus is to maximise profits. Similar to the entrepreneurial ways of most companies from SLC and it's surrounds. "Mavic's owner, Amer Sports, buys Enve Composites for $50 million." The profits all go outside USA now. Whilst they do maintain the quality, US manufacture etc after selling to Mavic, it would be nice to think these guys are making this stuff with an aim to some cost effectiveness, it definitely isn't the case, their aim is maximising profits. Additionally Ogden is one of the cheapest cities places in western USA to live, with close to the lowest wages.
  • + 3
 "I have a pair and I do love them dearly", Amateur Willy, 2018

That has totally distracted me from the decent points made in your post.
Well almost. I'm sure the Finnish government is hugely grateful for the tax dollars provided by the patriotic buyers of these excellent products.
  • + 3
 Wow that was uncomfortable to watch ! The same boutique bike buyers will buy these just to get blown in public by “dude bros”, and the pros will keep promoting them by lack of choice”! Waste, unless of course your a Bazillionaire!
  • + 3
 IMO it sounded like a paid for advert (no offence).

What interests me more though is that I have it on good authority that Greg Minaar is not riding stock ENVE wheelsets. Surely if he was using that rim strip he wouldn't have had that spoke go through his rim that caused his puncture at MSA? So why is he not riding stock wheels or using the rim strip?
  • + 7
 username: envtstla
password: Wheels12345
  • + 6
 www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8fsKeQwplg

so why most expensive rim have so poor quality?
  • + 15
 Great vid. What it says to me, watching as an engineer, is that ENVE isn't some magic bullet that kills manufacturing problems associated with carbon fiber. I'm sure if you cut open 100 "generic rims", you'd see similar problems, maybe even more often- 1 sample certainly isn't a rule, but what it does mean is- the cost difference is very unlikely justified by what they talk about in this video.

I'm very familiar with the costs of US labor. I work in a US manufacturing facility, and I also work with engineers across the globe on a daily basis. The fact that ENVE is so dramatically priced above other products, just doesn't jive. We're not talking 20%, 50%, 100% or 200% more... we're talking 1000%! Keep saying US labor as much as you want- there's no justification for THAT level of price bump.

That is, except for the justification of "we're in this to make money". Honestly, I'd have more respect if someone just came out and said it. "Our stuff is really well made, from the US, from ethical origins; and ya know what, we want to be able to do more than just put dinner on the table for ourselves and our employees. They love carbon bikes too, and we want to all be able to afford them".

Instead, we get "2% RA rate on rims, so they obviously never break" and "we don't have to apologize for the short comings of our former rim- oh wait, there were no short comings!". Come on, guys. I'll probably get negged for this, but so be it.
  • + 3
 @phobospwns: Agreed with you all day long. Let them be a inconsistent, exceptionally high cost company....they will fail as soon as their marketing and product prove to be a mismatch. They are dumb as hell for doing this piece. The logic for their premium and testing is weak at best.
  • + 2
 @phobospwns: If they ever sell ENVE's for close to what they cost to make, they are done. You are paying for the name and the name has value because they are so expensive.
  • + 0
 Its very easy to cut a wheel into 100 pieces and show the best from the cheap wheel and the worst from the Enve wheel.
  • + 1
 @phobospwns: Is a Gucci purse worth more 1000% more than a non-name-brand version of the same materials? Of course not. It's about branding and positioning. They should not need to apologize for their strategy.
So long as their wheels continue to set the bar in terms of quality, longevity, looks, made-in-usa, etc. then they will be able to continue demanding premium pricing. They better watch out though, as Santa Cruz is the new contender that matches them and even beats them on longevity (via its warranty) and price.
  • + 1
 @thorsbane: I don't have a problem with the cost. I have a problem with the video repeatedly conveying the notion that it's the fact that they're manufactured in the US that's causing the disparity. It's causing *some* of that price gap, sure- but the vast majority of the mark-up is simply because people who can afford those prices will pay. We in the biking industry universally put some amount of stock into "reputation" of brands, it impacts how we spend money, no doubt. ENVE caters to those who put a larger stock in those items than others (and have the money to make those purchases accordingly). More power to them.

I'd love to see a company who had the balls to admit it, or at least no pussy foot around it. "People buy ENVE despite the high cost, because not only do we make a great product, but because the brand commands respect within the industry." would be a much more badass answer. Own it, ya know?
  • + 3
 Awesome video and interview @vernonfelton I like how this didn't feel like a press release with a note from Pinkbike about how a long term test was in the wings, but actually asking the questions that we ask and giving the company an opportunity to respond. That said, I don't envision myself ever being an Enve customer due to cost and value, but I do appreciate the work.
  • + 4
 lots of squirming, and awkward body language on that couch, maybe because they know that its not worth the price of a bike for a wheelset
  • + 2
 I once melted an ENVE rim with the exhaust of my truck by accident and they offered me a generously discounted crash replacement price. I didn't take it because it was still too expensive but it was pretty cool of them to do that!
  • + 1
 That's pretty rad.

This is the kind of thing they should be talking about when asked why their wheels cost so much. "We provide lifetime support to our customers, which frankly, raises the initial cost. But, if you invest in our wheels, and you won't regret it, and we will show you the value of your purchase".
  • + 2
 People should relize that getting cheap goods out of asia has a cost. The environment pays becuase they dont have the same standards as we do. The worker pays because they are losing their jobs to cheap overseas labour. The tax base pays becuase people without jobs dont pay in, they only take out. The medical system pays as people loss their benifits "to remain competitive" again as less people are paying in driving up costs for those still in. Are the doctors going to take a pay cut? The local economy pays becuase money is being transfered out and not spent locally thus breaking the cycle. And finally the next generation will pay for there will be no decent paying middle class jobs left here becuase people wanna save a few bucks buying cheap chinese shit at walmart. We have to get away from this trend as it only benefits the communists of the world.
  • + 1
 well said
  • + 0
 f*ck out of here with that serious tone Smile
  • + 2
 I'd rather have a pinch flat than the wheel crack during a ride. I can't imagine breaking a rim on the second warranty replacement and then Enve tells you that your warranty doesn't apply anymore. Then, you'll know why it's crazy to run carbon rims that cost that much.
  • + 2
 I’m glad I suck and don’t have the requisite skills and wherewithall to crack my $464 set of carbons. 2 years strong with truing necessary only once for the rear. I’m looking for 2 years more...

It’s going to be weird not seeing them on the Syndicate machines this year. Good luck ENVE; will you keep the older, less durable M series molds and sell them for less à la ENVE Edge?
  • + 4
 Ahh,Eli has'nt got facial hair!!! Just sit him there with a book instead,it will distract from his obvious lack of manliness. Even the test rig is called Ron Burgundy!
  • + 2
 I remember going to some local trails and seeing a group of well-to-do guys come in for a ride with the sickest builds. Of course they had to have ENVE wheels, i9 hubs, the WORKS. Even though they looked good, they sucked at the actual riding part. It was pretty lame. When I rode bmx, if someone had all profile or odyssey parts, it meant they knew what they were doing. It was like a rank. They were the ones truck driving over spines, or doing hop whips. I mean, people are entitled to spend their money however they wish, but overall, I think that in the mountain biking world, most of the people who buy into this really premium stuff just like what they see and happen to have the coin to blow on it.
  • + 2
 I'd rather pinch flat my tire than break my wheels. Which is why I would much rather buy Santa Cruz's near indestructible Reserve carbon wheelset (thinking of MacAskill) also made in the US for $1300 cheaper - with a LIFETIME warranty, damn! Hell, you could buy the Santa Cruz's and buy a second backup carbon wheelset from Bontrager for the price of one ENVE wheelset.
  • + 3
 The Santa Cruz wheels are ASSEMBLED in the US... big difference from ENVE's which are MANUFACTURED in the US.
  • + 2
 Oh, I didn't know that. I just knew they say their wheels are built in their California factory.
  • + 3
 @wibblywobbly: What? I did not know that. Negative points to SC for the BS that led me to believe they were manufactured in the US. Dammit.
  • + 1
 @thorsbane: the build the wheels in the US, but the rims in China.

nsmb.com/articles/reserve-santa-cruzs-new-carbon-wheels

"We partnered with a new engineering team in Asia and helped them to put together a brand-new factory exclusive to SC (for rims) where we could develop a rim-specific wax mandrel molding process in privacy."

It's funny how they dance around it "wheels built in the USA", "brand new factory exclusive (for rims)", Asia, not China, etc
  • + 2
 Either I misheard, or there's some misdirection on that Return Authorization number. It wasn't worded simply - "we have a 2% return rate", or "only 2% of our M-series rims are returned due to impact damage"...

He said something like "in the life of M-series, we've returned less than 2% of all the wheels we've ever made, for impact damage". That's a lot of words and a weird way to explain something simple.

Let's say hypothetically they've sold 100 rims total, and 50 of those are M series. 2% of 100 is 2 rims.

But, 2 of 50 M-series is 4%...

Am I out to lunch here?
  • + 2
 Best customer service and warranty of any carbon product company I've ever worked with. Maybe exspensive, but never paid a "crash replacement" fee or paid any labor, or paid for spokes or nipples. Pay one time and have a lifetime wheelset if you choose to.
  • + 6
 Chuppacabra/Jackalope sighting at 8:25.
  • + 5
 Maxxis rim strips circa 2000 for you Johnny-Come Lately's. The overlapped the rim bead long ago.
  • + 2
 I don't really buy their answer as to why their wheels costs so much...there is some truth to their reasoning but only slightly in my opinion. Yes, it's very costly to produce domestically here in the US vs overseas but I believe it's because their overall over head costs and marketing are the biggest contributing factors. Just a guess.
  • + 2
 They charge that much $$$ because people are willing (and suckers) to spend that much money.

Its pretty much a proven fact that a super high price ups the perception of a higher quality. Whether it be in a good or service.

$300 Oakleys vs $49 Dragons. Which are better? Oh wait. The same company manufactures both. Under the same roof.

Enve is owned by AmerSports. The suckers (consumers) that are willing to spend that kind of coin on something so "prestigious" are the ones that keep prices so outrageous.

If us (the bike industry consumer) basically boycotted these types of companies (AmerSports...) then prices would fall.

Its supply and demand. Simple F'n economics folks.

If you refuse to purchase something as outlandish as "ENVE" ... you're not "hurting" Enve... you're hurting AmerSports.

And ya know what... another (probably better) company would come along and offer us better product, at more reasonable prices.

Quite frankly... there's ZERO reason a set of MTB wheels should cost almost as much as a set of MOTO GP Motorcycle wheels. I dont care who you are. There's less overall MATERIAL used in an MTB wheel, the mold is smaller, etc (for Carbon fiber) than that of a racing Moto GP wheel. Yet somehow the Moto GP wheels are only a couple hundred bucks more?

Makes no sense.
  • + 4
 Send me down this track and we will see if they make it half the way down. www.pinkbike.com/video/439930
The E-Thirteen Carbon wheelset broke at 0:38. Big Grin
  • + 1
 You animal dude
  • + 2
 @ENVE what are you waiting for, sponsor this lad !!!
  • + 2
 Thought I remember hearing Enve was bought by Amber sports. Mega outdoor company. That’s how they stayed in business. I had a set of Enve’s on a nomad, and they were pretty sweet. But I’ve also had light bicycle and Ibis carbon rims and they were just as good, if not better ride feel. I will say Enve’s customer service is awesome. Pretty much a no questions asked replacement policy. You broke it, here’s a new one. Wish I could say the same about Ibis or light bicycle. They definitely do not stand behind their broken rims.
  • + 2
 I scored a good deal on my DH rig and it came with ENVE M90s. Love the rims...hate freaking out every time I hear a little 'dooong' noise when a rock hits them.... 'Carbon Hypochondriac'
  • + 1
 Dear ENVE, why are your spokes internal? This makes for quite the hassle when fixing spoke tension that any wheel will inevitably develop. I would deal with internal nipples, so long as their is a legit reason? If I had all the money, this factor would keep me from buying enve rims.
  • + 1
 Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the composite wheels don't change shape, meaning they don't go warp or dent. If they don't warp or dent, then the tension on the spokes doesn't change. You don't have to get them trued.
  • + 2
 @Leppah: yeah that's more or less been my experience with M70s, although there are still loads transferred through the spokes and they will stretch and loosen... I had to re-tension my rear after about a year, which involved removing the tire, the rim tape, and using a special tool (which I had to buy) to do the job. Definitely though, they stay true and tight longer than any other wheels I've owned.
  • + 1
 @mattpatt: My point exactly. Any wheel, when ridden hard enough, will need to be retensioned. I still don't understand the benefit of internal nipples?
  • + 1
 @Billjohn6: I'm not disagreeing with you, b/c it was a (one time) pain in the ass to re-tension... but if putting the nipple inside the rim results in a stronger interface... well then maybe that's a reasonable trade-off.
  • + 2
 The reason is to have a much smaller spoke hole which creates a stronger rim and spoke bed. The question is: does the rim require that extra strength? These wheels do go out of true. Spokes do loose tension in use. Hit something hard enough sideways and spokes will briefly detention which can allow the nipple to unwind. Both my sets became looser after about a year and required retensioning. The symptom was noisy spokes under hard pedalling. Interestingly, I had a pair of Zipp tubular wheels for racing cross and the rear wheel became very loose with use as well. Is that a symptom of really stiff rims? I’ve built lots of wheels and it’s not often that my wheels needed retensioning. Truing yes but not wholesale loose spokes.
  • + 1
 would never buy enve to expensive and to many issues. I have NOBL on my trail bike cracked rear rim and got a free replacement within a month. I have reynolds carbon I9 on my enduro bike and are BOMB proof. If you want to spend the cash for a bombproof carbon wheelset get i9 reynolds!!!
  • + 1
 First of all I feel really good now being praised by their marking guy as "guy that rides the hardest and most aggressive" for breaking one of their wheels... anyway...

@vernonfelton Great video, please do more of these! How about asking PB users for their questions to a brand? That would be rad!

Like i would ask ENVE what's up with thos internal nipples? To they do anything different than normal nipples PIA when you want to tension your spoks?
Thanks!
  • + 4
 @michibretz look for the nipple conversation in the upcoming podcast. I asked them about it.
  • + 1
 @vernonfelton: I will watch out for it, thanks!
  • + 1
 @vernonfelton: Thanks! Who's producing the podcast? I'm baffled as to why they agreed to your logical yet divisive questions...hope to see this more.
  • + 1
 @Soilsledding: I'm producing it though "producing" is sort of code for me yelling my way through hours of quality time with Audacity. Cheers. Sorta like what I did with the standards panel discussion.
  • + 1
 I absolutely love my Enve's! They change the ride of my bike completely, making it track better, corner better, and instill confidence. I still don't understand the argument that they are too stiff...I thought that was the point but I do have 160mm of travel so maybe it shows when you are running them on shorter travel bikes. I'm not rich so I can't afford them at retail which also means no warranty but how they improve my ride makes it worth it. I did break one, yes even while running cush core but shit happens.
  • + 1
 I agree. I was like, what the hell. I like stiff wheels. Granted I have Easton Haven carbons, so maybe Enves are way stiffer, but I love the stiff ride of my Eastons. And yeah, one broke on mounting a tire but they promptly replaced.
  • + 1
 CEO respond is absolutely POLITICALLY correct! Mighty staright forward and uncut questions. These are the questions that all consumers want to hear,no editting.
These are the reasons why I don't buy ENVE wheels:
Santa Cruz
Industry Nine
Race Face
Reynolds

Do you ENVY me now?
  • + 1
 I bought the hv m60s in feb 2017. I’ve bought rim upgrades before and not noticed the difference. I expected unbreakable rims, but not performance difference. Instead I got noticeable amazing performance, but a rim that broke. I can run lower psi but still have precise handling. I expect a no fuss replacement given I spent 3850 aud on the wheels.
Wish me the best
  • + 1
 I totally expected that Vernon would volunteer a normal alloy wheel to run on their mandrel 85# thingy, and then i'd get to see something exciting. Santa cruz sure did a better job of destroying their wheel in public. Good for enve to go under the spotlight like that.

My other suggestion... at the start when Vernon reveals the bowl of pho, would have been neat if it was a bowl of frankenberrys with a big silly spoon, or a roast baby pig head, just, ya know, casual eating at the airport.
  • + 1
 Sorry; ENVE is a dying brand. Especially losing the support of Santa Cruz, which says a lot. I opted to throw my money behind Dustin Adams and the rest of his team at WeAreOne Composites. Their wheels are insane and reasonably priced..
  • + 1
 I know so many riders with who paid a whole lot money for the old enve carbon rims and had serious crashes because of pinch flats. Enve solutions was to put more air pressure in the tire. Now enve said they have improved their rims and eliminated pinch flats. How about allowing riders to trade in their old rims which are dangerous for the new rims!
  • + 3
 #weareone - Carbon wheels made in Canada, by Canadian hands, paying Canadian wages - $1500 CAD MSRP. Enve - $3600 CAD MSRP Enough Said Enve!
  • + 1
 Vernon, you are a legit OG, and one of the very few in the bike industry that I really respect. However, I’m surprised you didn’t ask envy about Greg throwing away the World Cup season last year due to wheel and tire failures on these supposedly pinch flat and impact damage resistant new wheels.
  • + 1
 Good questions but really poor answers. The answers played straight out of the marketing BS playbook. They didnt even get close to answering the questions. They didnt explain why they are so stiff, they demonstrated that the tyres are better at resisting pinchflats, But instead the rim cracked at 6 inches rather than pinching at 5. Not sure thats an improvement. And then the biggy why so expensive there was no answer at all apart from because we want to be different to the competition. Overall I thought their answers were a bit lame
  • + 1
 250 rims a day if you assume an average selling price around $750-1100 per wheel (~$3000 for a wheelset but a lot of those will go out to dealers and at OEMs) you will be looking somewhere in the region of 75-100 million dollars turnover. Not bad for a company with only 200 employees. Its very cool that they seem to be ploughing a lot of that money into r&d.
  • + 1
 ask yourself this.......how did mountain biking get to this point without carbon wheels. did we all crawl other thousands of broken alloy wheel sets to get to here. Im pretty sure 99% of people on hear aren't riding as hard as some of the pioneers of the sport from a time when carbon wheel sets were not even a thing and i don't remember seeing wheels being treated as consumables.
if you buy a dh bike below 5 grand do you understand that your alloy wheels will need to be replaced on a monthly or maybe even weekly basis considering how cheap they are by comparison. DH would never have taken off if this were true. Im not saying carbon wheels dont have there place but i think its getting a bit crazy to spend 3000 on a wheel set. I ride my bike far too much to care about these as most of my wheels costs go into wheel bearings and free-hub bearings due to the use they have and not worrying about will they warranty them when they inevitably fail.

also yep that test rig doesnt impress me at all. They had a chance to explain it but basically ended up saying...."its just how we wanna do it" nice.....good effort there. here i'll just get my wallet out now you've explained it.
  • + 1
 Tough questions to answer and felt i could only translate the answers to "If I make this answer long enough then hopefully everyone watching this will forget what the question was and we will move along to next question and I will try to trick them again"
  • + 1
 wake up in the morning looking to make an enve carbon mug. wake up in the morning looking to make an enve carbon spoon. wake up in the morning looking to make an enve carbon seatclamp. wake up in the morning looking to make an enve carbon chopsticks. wake up in the morning looking to make an enve carbon...........
  • + 1
 Very good video. The wheels may be good, and as said above, if you want to buy them then that's your choice, but it seems to me that the REAL value is in that "rim strip" thingy. That's what's really unique. The rims cracks, just like any other carbon rim would, but that tyre stays good!
  • + 1
 Why is it that when you charge $1k a rim, you can't seem to get the 3 decals placed evenly around the rim? I just knocked out 6 wheels, all with factory black decals, putting on white decals alternating with the factory ones. When the customer picked them up, he noted that ALL of them had poorly set factory decals. Some of them were over a full spoke off!
Small details such as that can reflect on over all quality of a product. Just think, would you see a high-end car with the head badge not centered? Or botched stitching on a Louis Vuitton hand-bag? When you charge premium, top-tier pricing in a given market, nothing can be an oversight, especially something as basic as decals.
  • + 1
 For me and my 4 sets of M series only one warranty RA was for a rock in the sidewall. The others are ALL for SPOKE PULL THROUGH . so if there is a weak link that I see in my own experience with M50s and 60s is spoke pull through bulging the rim on the exit hole and splitting it there. BUT they do a great job of covering their rims. I love em.
  • + 3
 Hey Pink Bike! Do an article on We Are One! Myth busting astronomical priced domestic carbon products! NSMB did a great feature on them already!
  • + 1
 Thanks jdog. I had never heard of that website! I read some articles this morning!
  • + 3
 @vernonfelton - Is there any chance of the group test of rims, aluminium and carbon, both cheap and expensive all on the same test rig?
  • + 1
 It's all about the warranty baby!! I'm currently on my third set of ENVE rims, having broken two M60 hoops, and one M70 hoop, now on M90s - all on my trail bike. I have had nothing but good service on warranty, and they even upgraded both my hoops to M90's when I broke a single M70. And yes, the hoops deserved to be broken after what I put them through, I was not surprised. I'm also biased though, mostly because I've seen the amount of activity in their facility and gotten to play with the test equipment.
  • + 1
 I don't know why the environmental impact of carbon always mentioned. You drive a car, ride a carbon bike, wear gortex jacket or even a nylon jacket, drink water from a plastic bottle....we are all guilty! It's just another Co. making a buck. What I really want to know is what has ENVE if any has done to advocate more open trails for Mt. bikers?
  • + 1
 Wow, carbon fibre super materials. I want to go back to my childhood, and review all the, "carbon fibre super material" stuff. "So light scientists are using it to replace individual parts in injured bird's feathers, so strong it's being used in the space industry as the gold standard to test the strength of armor for the military, many experts believe you may as well crash your carbon fibre vehicle it will probably make a hole in the earth"
  • + 1
 It would probably be quite a laugh all the new age carbon fibre jargon hype is all I'm saying, then in 2018 we have these weak ass bike rims to contrast it with.
  • + 5
 The video was so good I didn't even need to take my ADD meds to watch it.
  • + 2
 Enve was acquired by Amer (Finland) which also owns Mavic and Salomon. That is a formidable lot of engineers.
I have never ridden an Enve wheel and I am sure that price is why.
  • + 3
 It funny how comments complaining about the price are often downvoted.
I wonder who could not be in favour of a price decrease?
  • + 4
 Awesome wheels but I could never justify something that costs what 3-4 sets of 'normal' wheels go for, or a complete bike.
  • + 6
 Yup. Plus you can almost buy a complete GG bike with the frame built in CO for the price of a set for anyone who wants to support US bike etc manufacturing but needs to spend their $3k on a bike instead of a wheelset.
  • + 5
 I sense a troll storm headed this way!
  • + 16
 It’s silent here in Jotunheimen, no signs of stormy weather... but the air is still heavy from farts after the Sam Pilgrims E-bike feast. Man that was soo much food. And broken keyboards lying all around. We made whole stacks of loose enter keys and broken smartphone screens. One dude opened his dashboard in the morning and shat himself into coma. Another one tried to write something and snapped a ligament in his thumb, phone fell into the toilet. We are devastated man.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: u r a living legend my friend
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I think you threw Donald trumps nukes in the mix to get the kids started! It did get 'bitchy' Surprised this hasn't gone ebike yet.......There's time yet
  • + 5
 Just three words: We-are-one.
  • + 3
 What are the chances that these rims are really just 95% similar to other(cheaper) carbon rims and you’re only paying extra for the damn stickers that say __/—\__
  • - 1
 You're also paying for American labor over cheap Asian slave labor, and to ensure the materials don't end up as ocean fill.
  • - 2
 @TheR: $9hr in America, that's slave labor! Let's not even talk about the oil spills!
  • + 3
 @drivereight: First of all, where do you get the $9/hour number? How do you know this to be fact? Next, who, exactly is making $9/hour at Enve? The engineers? The wheel manufacturers? The guy sweeping the floor? A guy just starting out? A guy who's been there 5 years? That wage, assuming it's even true, certainly isn't universal for everyone in the building.

I'm unfamiliar with the oil spills you're talking about. Did Enve have a history with this?
  • + 2
 And even if the 9/hour wage is true, and even if you disagree with it, it still factors into the cost versus the the wages other companies pay for the production of their rims. It's the cost of American made vs. Asian made. That's one of the thins you're paying for. It's not just the stickers.
  • + 3
 @TheR: Asian slave labor? Videos of Light Bicycle and Giant manufacturing are easy to find. You'll see these are professionals working in clean, safe, air conditioned environments. The parking lot at Giant is full of new Toyotas.
  • + 1
 @iamamodel: Fair enough. It still costs significantly less to manufacture in many pets of Asia than here in the States. That's why companies do it.
  • + 3
 @iamamodel: I work for LB North America but have been to the factory in China many times. I think it's safe to say that people talking about "slave labor" have not actually been to our factory! The employees are treated and paid very well. I think that if more people came over to visit they would be surprised, and maybe even want to stay Smile
  • + 5
 "why did you guys cost Minnaar the overall last season?"
  • + 0
 Shout to ENVE for making great wheels, taking on some hard questions, and giving some frank answers (lookin' at you, Jake Pantone). Shout to Vernon for making great videos, asking some hard questions, and reporting some frank answers.

It would be interesting to reach out to other brands to see if a 2% impact failure rate on carbon is up to industry snuff. Or even what the impact failure rate from some alloy rim manufacturers is for some context.

Also shout to SeaTac for not being atrocious.
  • + 4
 @fullfacemike SeaTac has some decent coffee. I will give it that. Seriously, though, ENVE does deserve credit for being willing to go under the spotlight. I've made similar offers to companies over the years and the vast majority of brands are not willing to face hard questions on camera. I appreciate it when brands are willing to step up to the plate.

It would be interesting to know what the return rate on wheels is (for impact damage) across brands. That's data that most brands are unwilling to share, but, man, it would be interesting. Of course, there's always the risk of getting inaccurate information from any self-reporting kind of venture like that, but still..... Cheers.
  • + 1
 @vernonfelton: what ENVE's take on foam tire inserts? Every downhill racer and most enduro guys use them!
  • + 2
 STOP SHOUTING.
  • + 1
 Enve just can't win. Clear a honest marketing video doesnt even cut it.. If enve wasn't "too weak" and "to expensive" it would be "too heavy just get alu" "just get on aliababalou".
  • + 2
 Every day our Engineers wake up and think "How can I make the best wheel possible?"...........hahahaha classic.I dont think so lady.
  • + 1
 Wake up after a coma from a crash, they ask those questions I'm sure ;p
  • + 1
 Pretty tense video. Good god, that beard........ I have a set of ENVE wheels. Now that I've experienced them, I'll say that I would never buy another set unless they were under a thousand bucks.
  • + 4
 I cant reach the nipples!!!!!!
  • + 25
 Stop dating tall women.
  • + 2
 @metaam: This is solid PinkBike gold. Well played sir.
  • + 1
 @metaam: or stand on a stool
  • + 2
 I never understood how their wheels could be so stiff and harsh, but then their bars have a perfect blend of stiffness and compliance that gives a smooth and responsive feel.
  • - 1
 Because you need a certain amount of material above rims strength requirements to shatterproof it.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: You guys are so full of it. You're just throwing up everywhere....
  • + 4
 These guys looked stoked



m.pinkbike.com/photo/15506950
  • + 4
 Vernon's bicep gave me a dirty look. Who do I talk to about that?
  • + 5
 #beefcake
  • + 0
 Although I accept brands need to face these kind of questions its kinda harsh to go in there and try to make them look as bad as possible. Also no wheel is ever going to be completely crack/dent proof so why assume enve are trying to put out this message. Looks like you had to eat your words at the end and admit they weren't lying about their new wheelset.
  • + 1
 I think it was all well thought out and almost felt scripted as these are all the questions that always get posted, so here its like they are preempting all the comment sections, as soon as they did something I had a question in my head anf then BOOM, they answered it right away - to me it felt more like it was all planned,again, trying to beat out and 1-up the keyboard warriors
  • + 1
 @makdthed: As a journalist my job is to ask the questions that are on my mind and on the minds of my readers. Do I consider what Pinkbike readers want to know? Damn skippy. Absolutely. I personally hating watching an interview and thinking, "How did they miss the obvious question?" Of course, you can't always think of every question at any given moment, but I try to ask the questions that I think truly matter. So, yes, I plan my interviews.
  • + 1
 So before, a pinch flat served as a warning that you were running the pressure too low and you were about to dent/crack your rims. Now, you'll just crack your rim. Brilliant!
  • + 3
 Vernon Felton, can you visit We Are One Composites in Canada and ask them the same questions?
  • + 3
 ''Why are your wheels so damn cheap!?
  • + 1
 Send Vernon to every manufacturer, first interview i have seen in the industry that held his ground and didn't get star struck. great work! remember the test rigs are for drawing graphs, not impressing customers.
  • + 4
 Director of marketing answering tech questions...
  • + 1
 Wonder what's keeping Spec from coming out with their version of a protective rim strip. Seems like it has more promise to have benefit for riders with average incomes. Patent 20160375724
  • + 0
 If you wanna buy them just buy them ,yes they are very posh ,but at the same time I do like a wheel that has a little forgiveness a little more soft feeling ,little less spoke tension ,and I do concur with the guy that said that it’s not all about suspension,cause a wheel and YES TIRE PRESSURES are almost the number one thing on bike feeling and handling,but yes they do look very very nice on a bike (so does MAVIC my number one wheels ,except that stupid rear hub Frown ( )
  • + 2
 I wish Vernon would do a video on Pinkbike. How the company started, where it's based out of...
  • + 2
 Great job, please keep up the good work! Now, how do we petition to get Vernon and Levy a raise?
  • + 1
 open up your snipping tool, take a snip of the area around his chops, airbrush out his teeth and turn the image 90 degrees. Voila! Just for fun of course........
  • + 1
 awesome questioning from pinkbike i like this approach a lot......tough questions need to be ask so that real innovation happens.
  • + 3
 Will we see a Mcaskill test in the future?
  • + 1
 When they were showing the test rig that was all I was thinking, just show him going down the stairs 100 times in a row and there is nothing left to argue. Of course he can't because the wheels will break, but he still wouldn't have a pinch flat supposedly...
  • + 0
 @ENVE: that’s hardly a test, and he’s go a pinch flat on that!!
  • + 1
 I may never purchase a set of their wheels brand new but would support them any day for not shipping out over seas. Their choice and nobody has to like it.
  • + 0
 I came to watch pinkbike videos for non-traditional stuff, such as someone taking a Enve rim and smashing a variety of inferior rims with it. I'm disappointed watching this corporate stuff...
  • + 1
 Does anyone as ridden we are one and santa cruz reserve wheels? which one is better? i would consider Enve but absolutely not at that price!
  • + 1
 sounds a lot like product placement and Marketing for free, but I liked the concept and the way it was built/thought. Vernon, more of those please !
  • + 2
 Spending $2000 on an old dirt bike and some boots & helmet will make you much faster
  • + 3
 Vernon should go up one size on tshirts. @vernonfelton
  • + 1
 I'm thinking two sizes
  • + 3
 Man,this crowd is thougher than some carbon wheels! lol
  • + 2
 Someone could work on their soft skills a little bit, a little professionalism goes a long way. That was painful to watch.
  • + 3
 Great video @vernonfelton . Thanks for asking though questions.
  • + 1
 Great interview, but if Vernon pumped his guns more, it would be better. The only carbon I own came on the used bike, and my pencil.
  • + 1
 PB keep making videos like this also how bike stuff is made, I think we would all agree that it would be cool to see more of this !!!
  • + 1
 and that CEO comment almost made me spit out my coffee. Probably more like "F@#@ I gotta go to work and cant ride" is the first thing they think about when they wake up.
  • + 2
 oh crap... when you edit your response you loose the original text? PB..its called an edit. wtf.

Anyways, my original post was: the 2% return rate is misleading. The 2% is for RMA claims..meaning ENVE most likely saw a photo from a shop and said yup that looks legit. They could have denied thousands of broken rims from shop photo submissions for JRA'ing damage or from 2nd hand ownership.
  • + 0
 Hey pink bike
Why do you delete people's comments?
I don't mean hiding down voted comments
I mean actually deleting people's comments????
  • + 11
 Hey @nojzilla

Your comment hasn't been deleted - we only remove derogatory comments. Your comment has gotten enough negative props from other users that it was automatically moved to the 'below threshold' section that you can see at the bottom of this comment section. I suspect it was downvoted so much because of your poor math skills in the comment, but I feel you on that as I'm also terrible at math.
  • + 2
 This true?
  • + 1
 @yeti-monster: Yes. Not a single comment has been deleted, only down voted, at least as of right now.
  • + 1
 One thing I have been noticing as of late, that depending on the device/pc that I'm using, my comment may or may not show. I'm sure why, maybe isp censorship, idk? Sometimes I will still receive notifications that someone has responded to my comment, and when I visit the page, my comment or the comment thread is nowhere to be found. But then I can visit the same page, let's say on my work computer, and I can see my comment. Most times I have seen this happen, my comment has had positive props, so being hidden wasn't the case. While I have been known to partake in a thread or two that was headed downhill quick, most all of them that had issues with this glitch weren't ones to be deleted.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: well I can't find it, could be that I'm on my phone while the original comment was made on pc? I don't feel that the comment was that derogatory to enve only the price.
An my math wasn't That bad.....
  • + 1
 Only 3 down votes an not the first time it's happened either
  • + 1
 @mtnbykr05: yep, exactly this
  • + 1
 gone on the work PC too
  • + 1
 @nojzilla: Do you mean this post? "they can be the best wheelsin the world but, I can still buy 100... ONE HUNDRED modern alloy rims for the price of "

That and the responses are still down there.....
  • + 1
 @endlessblockades: thats the one
but
definatly not visible to me on my phone, work PC and now my home PC. Exactly as mtnbykr05 has described
  • + 1
 @nojzilla: Wierd......


nojzilla (1 days ago)
they can be the best wheelsin the world but, I can still buy 100... ONE HUNDRED modern alloy rims for the price of these

+ 11

flag spankthewan (1 days ago)
I love that you emphasized your math error. Unless your rims cost $10 USD, Enve rims are not more expensive by a factor of 100! They're closer to 10 times more expensive, though.

- 2

flag nojzilla (1 days ago)
@spankthewan: enve wheel set 2500 to 3500 as mentioned in the vid..
I just picked up a Octane One 30mm alloy rim for £21
question all you want

+ 3

flag joaovasco (1 days ago)
But probably they aren't produced on our friendly and beloved country of Freedom.

+ 12

flag hamncheez (1 days ago)
@nojzilla: comparing a wheelset to a single rim?

+ 3

flag foggnm (1 days ago)
I have found most people that ride Enve wheels have plenty of cash to burn. Like many things in the bike market, some are willing to pay and some not. I'm fine with a good set of strong alloy wheels. I didn't find any of the guys in that video to be particularly great spokespersons for their product. They just seemed to say "we are the best" or "we don't need to apologize." Not a very positive viewer experience.

+ 0

flag nojzilla (1 days ago)
@hamncheez: I'm not comparing an alloy rim to a carbon wheel set. I'm saying I can buy a hundred alloy rims for the price of this carbon wheel set.
There is no f*cking way an envelope wheelset will out last the rims that I can replace a hundred times........
They can't even last one Greg Minnar DH run....

+ 2

flag phobospwns (1 days ago)
@foggnm: Agreed. If you want ENVEs, and you can afford 'em, go nuts. If people will shell out the cash, keep chargin' 'em. That's capitalism for ya, and there's nothing wrong with it. It just felt overly defensive to me, when it really didn't need to be.
  • + 1
 @nojzilla: If you log into the Chrome browser on all 3 devices and use it to access PB, clear the cached images and files.
  • + 1
 @endlessblockades: cheers I'll give that a try but, it's wierd that I can reply to other comments but not that other one.......
  • + 1
 Nope, that didn't work either
  • + 1
 @endlessblockades: Yeah, there responses were more physical. In that every time Vernon pressed there was a lot of unspoken hostility. I think they were really hoping he'd focus on the pinch flat proof thing.

I'm going to risk really pissing people off here and I'm calling out Enve as a naked emperor.

People want Gucci wheels, and are willing to ignore the actual experience. It's called confirmation bias, and usually when confronted is only reinforced. This pinch flat thing just looks like controlled failure to me. They can't figure out how to stop that kind of cracking.

For me Santa Cruz's reserve press statement says it all. In such a small industry to have such a major player throw shade like that says a lit.
  • + 1
 I saw the hubs being made in there US factory. Are the bars and stems made in the US as well?
  • + 2
 What tire pressure did they use when dropping with the test rig?
  • + 1
 Should have asked ENVE why their seat post clamps have the shitest design ever?
  • + 1
 Question

How do you feel after Minnaar loose WC for the new enve shitty "noflat" wheels?
  • + 1
 Great job Vernon! Keep up the good work and asking the "working mans" questions for us. Thumbs up!
  • + 2
 "every Day our engineers wake up" phew, that's a good start.
  • + 1
 Bahahahaha
  • + 1
 Love this company!! Their engineers are the best and they are succeeding at making the best wheels
  • + 1
 Wow, a “professional “ review and you feel the need to use four letter expletives...seriously?? Grow up
  • + 1
 The interviewer seemed too concerned about his presentation, looked like he was trying to hard to seem tough or whatever.
  • + 1
 Why is the pinch flat testing machine equipped with a knob that's narrower than the tire or rim?
  • + 2
 how much did enve pay for this ad lol
  • + 1
 Nice interview. Great questions... good ballsy approach without shying away from the real issues. Nice one
  • + 2
 Thanks for asking the questions everybody wanted to hear about! Smile
  • + 1
 Awesome review Vernon, I wish there were more straightforward honest reviewers as yourself out there!
  • + 1
 Easton stuff doesn't crack as much, I know lots of people that have cracked enve rims, bars from xc riding hahahahaha
  • + 1
 I’m all for the little guy but the We Are One shilling in these comments is so pervasive that it looks suspicious.
  • + 0
 Well most of people I know buy China or Taiwan made carbon wheels and put Enve sticker on it. Can't really tell the difference.
  • + 2
 THANK ME !!!!! ITS MADE IN AMERICA !! JOBS, JOBS JOBS !!! MAGA !
  • + 1
 YOU ARE WELCOME!
  • + 0
 Thanks president Trump!
  • + 4
 President Trump must be happy there's no text, only a video! Smile
  • + 1
 Now that I have owned a pair of m90tens.... I wouldn't waste my time with carbon wheels again ????
  • + 1
 Vernon's videos make me miss him from BIKE.

Great video, Vernon. I still want a set of Enve's one day. Smile
  • + 1
 Marketing : "If consumers willing to pay it for $3000, why selling it for $1000?"
  • + 1
 So happy I never bought into the Huck Norris....
  • + 1
 2'10" : Is she wearing a mavic apron ?
  • + 1
 Yes, I noticed that, but it kind of makes sense as Enve and Mavic are both owned by Amer. As are Arcteryx (also seen in this video).
  • + 1
 I no longer enve these wheels
  • + 1
 Whatever happened to good old Araya RM20 rims?
  • + 1
 I'm not that keen on the way that chap is pointing his finger at me
  • + 1
 Great video! More like these would be great.
  • + 1
 "blah blah blah, right? blah blah....blah...right?"
  • + 0
 Enve better get B1KER (B1) 280lbs to test those Rims before he looses weight.
  • + 1
 All a bunch of BullShit. These guys are blowing smoke up our asses.
  • + 1
 Great vid as usual, great to see content like this!
  • + 1
 Vernon's the best PB addition, since Vernon.
  • + 1
 3:45 - 3:47 hahahahaha
  • + 1
 Two words NOX COMPOSITES
  • + 1
 Wonder what Amer Sports thinks about this...
  • + 3
 Ya I was hoping for a price reduction after the amer sports acquisition
  • + 1
 Way to go Vern! Great questions and love the honesty on both sides
  • + 0
 I have seen many broken enve rims. No thanks, not for me. "Ain't nobody got time for that!"
  • + 1
 3 words : Santa Cruz Reserve
  • - 1
 haha nice bullshit ,,every day our engineers wake up and ask themselfs how can i miss make the best wheel possible" Now all know why they are so expensive hah
  • + 1
 The best wheel possible would be affordable as well.
  • + 1
 Can't wait to try...
  • + 1
 Great video Vernon.
  • + 0
 That test track looked way too buff and flowy.
  • + 6
 Looks can be deceiving. We recently had Charlie Harrison from Intense Factory Racing over for some M930 testing. You should ask him how buff and flowy it is.
  • + 3
 @ENVE: Please test with fat old guys who are not able to bunny hop over every piece of gravel, not with pros that know who to be smooth and flowey Smile
  • + 1
 .................
  • + 1
 Ive been loving my M90s
  • + 1
 Stay classy, Ogden!
  • - 3
 Santa Cruz reserve wheels better bang for the money
  • + 4
 just out of curiosity, what is your comment is based on?
do you own a sets of enves and santa cruz wheels and can compare them?
or do you simply like santa cruz's marketing story better than other wheel manufacturers?
  • - 1
 I’ve watched the test videos from bike magazine with the new enve wheels and the Danny MacAskill test video of the Santa Cruz wheels and for $1499 for the Santa Cruz wheels with DT Swiss hubs it’s over $1000 cheaper than enve wheels. That’s what I’m basing it off of and the fact that Santa Cruz comes with a lifetime warranty. @michibretz:
  • + 1
 @Kpd30: A very good friend of Danny MacAskill, Ali Clarkson made a video of himself doing a very similar test on youtube with Spank alloy rims. He went up and down concrete staircases with rims and no tires and they did not fail....eventually they did but it took many many tries. He was also jumping and landing on sharp edges as well.

I think the video has since been removed (maybe at the request of Santa Cruz?) either that or I just can't seem to find it.

Anyways, I think in order for you to state SC carbon wheels are better than the new Enve wheels should be backed up. I'm waiting for more reviews to pour in from critics and riders alike.
  • + 1
 @Kpd30: So wah you are saying is you have no experience with either and base your recommendation purley on a youtube video.
awesome.

I own a set of enve M70. There is a lot of things i do not like about them.
To be completely honest probably more than I like and one is the price tag for sure.

Compared to Roval and I9 carbon wheels that i own as well they hold up very well.
I also own several sets of alloy wheels from Mavic, I9 and DT and have to say i personally really enjoy the added stiffness of carbon wheels. This is a personal preference and you do not have to agree.

However a fact is that even though I had carbon wheels of all the 3 brands mentioned above break i experienced less issues and critical failures on carbon wheels than i did on alloy wheels during the last couple of year of riding and racing.

I also had the pleasure to ride SC wheels for a day and can not say any negative about them. They made it through the day like all other wheels in our group did.
I would say the ride quality felt similar to my Rovals but Enves feel stiffer overall than SC.
  • + 0
 No i have no experience with them but from what I’ve seen/read and for my riding terrain and someone my size of the SC wheels can go toe to toe with the enve wheels at half the price then that’s what I’d go for. Either way I’ll probably stick with non carbon wheels I’m not a small rider so it’s not easy to throw $1500-$2000 at wheels when I break them on the regular. @michibretz:
  • + 2
 @LiquidSpin: That was a great video. Probably taken down by Huck Norris as Ali made his own inserts to copy theirs.

They're not in great shape after this video either, ol' Huck Norris.
  • + 1
 @LoganKM1982: Ahh good point! Glad someone else has seen it. It was a great video at the time and when I saw Danny do the same with Carbon rims it really made me think about durability vs cost between carbon and alloy.

For me the only 2 big points for carbon is stiffness/compliance and weight reduction which is big considering it's rotational weight. However when it comes to durability looks like in the right hands both alloy and carbon are on the same level almost.
  • + 1
 @LiquidSpin: I think they'll keep getting better. If Enve is willing to publish this and address stiffness issues that's a good sign.
  • + 1
 @LoganKM1982: I think they have improved their wheels by adding that extra layer to protect the rim. It's taking the Huck Norris and Cushcore idea to the next level. Smile
  • - 2
 I really envy guys who can afford these wheels.
  • - 2
 He dug'd deep in some Enve a$$hole, had them shaking on their pedals.
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