Why Are So Many Bike Companies Being Bought at the Moment?

Feb 22, 2022
by James Smurthwaite  
CRC visit. Ballyclare Northern Ireland. Photo by Matt Wragg.

No matter what cycling publication you read, you've probably heard some version of the following story that has been regurgitated en masse in the past 12 months:

bigquotesBasically the whole world shut down because of a killer virus and then when it started to reopen, everyone remembered that bikes are actually great, even governments, so we all rushed to our bike shop and bought all the bikes. Then there were no bikes. Even the people we buy bikes from couldn't buy bikes anymore... or the people they buy bikes from. Maybe one day soon there will be too many bikes because everyone's trying to build the bikes we can't buy, but for now they are all stuck on the other side of the world. So, if you want a bike now you'd better be prepared to pay more for it than before because all of a sudden everything is more expensive, including the things that go into making a bike and the space on boats to get the bike to you."A cycling journo who has a loose (at best) grasp of economics, logistics and geopolitics


While this may sound like a pretty terrible situation all round, it has actually worked out pretty well for some bike brands. So much so that we've seen a year of record sales, profits and stock prices for the brands that allow us access to them. A boom like this hasn't gone unnoticed by the wider world either. We've reported in the past month alone on Kona being bought by Kent and the Accell Group securing a $1.56 billion price from a consortium led by the KKR Group. Further back than that, Pon made a big play when it bought Dorel Sports, and both Canyon and YT secured big private investments. It's clear that money is flooding into the cycling industry, but what decisions are driving the sales of these bikes brands? Let's take a quick run down some possibilities:

There's money to be made As we outlined above, this boom is making money for brands. Investors want a slice of that pie for as long as it lasts. Hopefully this is a boom that they see lasting and investors hopping on board while the getting's good rather than hoping to flip a quick buck.

eBikes Sorry to break it to you if you're an eMTB detractor, but battery-powered bikes are driving the industry forward at the moment. While giant multi-nationals probably aren't paying attention to who is winning the EWS-E, they definitely are looking at the changing ways people are getting around cities. E-bikes, electric scooters and electric cars are the transport of the future and rather than start from ground zero, investors want to own companies that already have a foot in the door. Porsche buying a majority stake in Greyp and investing in Fazua is a perfect example of this.

Brands need the cash Brands currently have a lot of cash tied up in pre-orders and stock cash tied up in inventory - cash that could be used to get more sales, price its products more competitively or continue funding R&D, marketing and more. For small to medium sized brands, investment could be the only way they can actually capitalise on the promises of the bike boom.

CRC visit. Ballyclare Northern Ireland. Photo by Matt Wragg.

Bigger brands can help with operations Those same brands may also not be equipped to deal with the current demand they're experiencing. When DT Swiss bought Trickstuff, it mentioned how it would use "its knowledge in business model development, IT infrastructure, supply chain management and production optimisation" to benefit the brake manufacturer. In Trickstuff, you had a brand with a great product that was falling behind in logistics and operations but that will now be buttressed by DT Swiss. With other brands, investors could grant them access to new markets, help them set up e-commerce or share technical information to help them grow.

Regardless of the reason for investments, is any of this good for cyclists? Well, sorry to dodge my own question, but really that remains to be seen. I personally believe if the bike boom is managed sustainably, it will lead to a better future for cyclists of all stripes. However, if we let the bubble burst, mountain biking could be looking at a slump similar to the one skateboarding had in the 2010s. Whatever happens, we'll be following the situation with interest and keeping you updated.

Posted In:
Industry News



497 Comments

  • 330 80
 Corporations are purchasing on low to zero interest debt thanks to a rigged Fed and COVID government handouts. Its all fake and the working class will pay for it when this inevitably backfires in the next economic downturn and the governments proclaim these corporations are "too big to fail". The corporate debt bubble is the largest bubble in economic history, currently exceeding over $10 trillion USD. Yeah, nothing to worry about here while the execs and CEOs rob everyone blind.
  • 48 178
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 22, 2022 at 12:54) (Below Threshold)
 LMAO... cramming that much ignorance into such a short post is legitimately impressive. Top level sookery, well done.
  • 58 3
 best way to shield your money from 7.5% inflation and protect your cash, is to spend it!
  • 169 54
 I see this comment is getting a lot of likes. Probably because it's some partial truths intermixed with thinly veiled tin-foil-hattery, that almost sounds smart.
  • 77 48
 @WildboiBen: Economically illiterate attacks on capitalism always play well on Pinkbike... which itself is really some great irony.
  • 32 6
 The 10-year T Note is still under 2% (and last August was close to 1%). That's effectively free money and while no one will agree with how every one of those $10T was spent, keeping the economy functioning during a global pandemic and rebuilding long-neglected infrastructure is about a good a use as you're going to find.
  • 82 3
 @badbadleroybrown: That's not an attack on capitalism. It's an attack on crony capitalism and government intervention.
  • 33 52
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 22, 2022 at 13:15) (Below Threshold)
 @Adamrideshisbike: Ahhh... ok... so now Kent, Accel, and Pon are "crony capitalists" winning out thanks to "government intervention"

lol lol


This shit keeps getting better, tell me more!


You know, it's funny how the same folks that blindly supported the government shutting everything down and putting small businesses out of business are the ones who love to complain about things like crony capitalism and what not.
  • 26 37
flag rickybobby18 (Feb 22, 2022 at 13:21) (Below Threshold)
 While I partially agree with you, the ability of the average Joe to participate in this growth is unprecedentedly easy, historically speaking. It's not only the 1% who've benefited - anyone with a 401k, 529, brokerage account, etc. has too. People who make $50k/yr can benefit as much as people who make $5million a year through widely available financial institutions.

You're painting with an oversimplified brush that's too broad. The nominal value of corporate debt is also relatively meaningless (just like Federal debt) without taking other factors into account.

Also, the average American got many thousands in COVID funds in the past few years too. It's not just corporations who got handouts. And I know many small business owners who got tens of thousands in federal grants that kept them afloat (and able to pay their bills).
  • 46 19
 2 comments:
1st, the manufacturers/brands do not look to fulfil demand.. because they are adffraid that might get in a position where they are overstocked, if the bubble suddenly crashes; their approach is slow and steady with no risk taken. The positive side effect of this are the profit margins as production will not cover demand so, they never have to sell it cheaper.

2nd. the biggest lie world wide is the *fuel of the future* BS, regading everything electric. FFS, the batteries recycle really badly(not efficient at all) and the process of making batteries pollutes more than anything else. Basically the carbon footprint of any electric vehicle, on its life-cycle, for the majority of their users, is worse than another type of combustion motorized vehicle.

But, yeah, if you like BS marketing then, by all means, do believe the *green future* fairy tales and stories and pay up the price, when in reality, electric is cheaper to build/fabric.

I would be curious.. and woud ask myself.., where is that sustainable green energy is/comes from.. when, in reality, the whole effin' world is the middle of an energy crisis.. basically, for the current expanding needs, not the current and not the future solutions for energy are enough/sustainable, green or not.
  • 56 1
 @badbadleroybrown: You got the wrong guy fella.

I know nothing about those companies.

I do know that the government gives out money to corporations from public coffers without adequate public consultation, inflating the stock market, triggering inflation, which does not serve the interests of the working class. Don't have to be a Marxist to point that out.

And shutting down small business during the lockdown with a couple of cheques to tide them over, while their customers flee permanently to Amazon etc. was a decision that will never be undone and will have profound implications. Why would you think I support that?
  • 53 4
 @badbadleroybrown: To be fair, even economists don't know what the f*ck they're talking about because economics isn't an actual science: it's crystal-ball-tarot-card-reading at best.
  • 26 28
 "Basically the whole world shut down because of a killer virus and then when it started to reopen, everyone remembered that bikes are actually great, even governments, so we all rushed to our bike shop and bought all the bikes."

Corrected:

"Basically the world governments shut their countries because of a virus and then when it started to reopen, everyone remembered that bikes are actually great, even governments, so we all rushed to our bike shop and bought all the bikes."
  • 5 5
 These are global companies, global mergers and acquisitions. Your rant is largely irrelevant at best.
  • 6 14
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 22, 2022 at 13:38) (Below Threshold)
 @Adamrideshisbike: Apologies... those were two separate thoughts and I didn't mean to tie you to the group that supported the shutdown, though those who do often share your opinions on crony capitalism.

But... the fact remains that these deals aren't crony capitalism in any way.
  • 42 6
 A large amount of powerful people are solely in it to gain more power/money. That is their main goal. That goal is purely selfish. Most corporations are designed around this mentality, and hugely incentivize decision making that ignores empathy and focuses on profitability. That mentality on its own is guaranteed to snowball into huge problems for society, especially the working class.

I think it's safe to say almost every major issue we face is the directly correlated to this snowball effect of narcissist non-empathetic decision making by powerful people, going un-check by equally demented politicians.
  • 20 46
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 22, 2022 at 13:53) (Below Threshold)
 @radrider: Profit incentivized capitalism is the primary reason we have a "working class" today instead of a "peasant" class as we had in all other systems.

Everything you just said is textbook millennial financial illiteracy and misdirected jealousy over your own lack of success... and that jealousy and ignorance is a far larger issue for society than your imaginary capitalist boogeyman. Just stop.
  • 19 24
flag Caligula1620 (Feb 22, 2022 at 13:58) (Below Threshold)
 "next economic downturn" pretty sure it's already here lol. oil and CPI are going up seemingly by the day. lets go brandon
  • 3 3
 Monero to the rescue, no more central bank, and no more government to install new taxes.
  • 1 1
 @TrailFeatures: that Dan Price looks like Jonathan van ness from Queer Eye.
  • 1 0
 That seems a bit pessimistic, but maybe there's some truth in it.
  • 1 0
 Preach it
  • 5 2
 @WildboiBen: please tell us what’s really going on wildboi? Because I don’t know how anyone can see it differently
  • 8 1
 @scott-townes: you are pretty much correct, but your figures are quite low, if you factor in derivatives and other financial offerings, the bubble is something in the quadrillions, the exposure right now is 1000 times worse than in 2008. Chinese real estate is starting to erupt, Evergrande was saved by the CCP with more giant companies struggling. That market alone is 54 Trillion officially, then derivatives on top of that, and that's one, albeit large, country!
  • 10 24
flag thustlewhumber (Feb 22, 2022 at 14:47) (Below Threshold)
 @radrider: Capitalism is based on the concept that everyone (including you) is solely in it to selfishly gain more power/money. Money IS the incentive for everything, from "corporate greed" to "$15 minimum wage" to "woke branding". It should be unchecked, unregulated, and unhindered and let the strong survive.

Point in case - since the USA has expanded with capitalism, there has been an unprecedented expansion in wealth, not only for the "greedy 1%" but also for the "greedy 99%" as well (as well as the greedy politicians). No other economic system ever put in place has had more of a wealth generating benefit for all involved as capitalism has, simply by taking advantage of the sin of greed.
  • 28 3
 @thustlewhumber: Wow, this has to take the cake as the most ardent fever dream on Capitalism. It's hilarious that you say "let the strong survive" when the biggest receipts of government welfare are...................corporations!
  • 7 1
 @Adamrideshisbike: based on the number of Congresspeople under investigation for insider trading, Wall Street cronyism and government intervention are increasingly indistinguishable. Probably not that different wherever there's an Exchange.

@wyorider: the globe is pinned to USD
  • 16 1
 @rickybobby18: im sorry did you just say people making 50k can profit just as much as someone making 5 million? What is it that you are smoking thats clearly been laced with fentanyl?
  • 11 1
 @WildboiBen: Even Trump talked about how rigged the game was in favour of corporations! He just changed which side he was in favour of once he got elected.
  • 4 1
 lol @ this thread. I'll throw out another funny...Bitcoin fixes this...few....
  • 12 41
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 22, 2022 at 15:00) (Below Threshold)
 @pargolf8: Show us on the doll where the facts hurt you...

Maybe if you weren't spending so much time smoking shit laced with fentanyl you'd understand the simple math, and that the reality that it's accessible to all people isn't even debatable. You have every chance to profit to the same extent that Elon Musk does, a 10% gain is a 10% gain no matter who makes it.

In capitalism, there exists opportunity for everyone to accumulate wealth... In everything else, there is no opportunity. So, effectively, all you anti capitalist puppets without basic economic literacy are just mad that you haven't taken advantage of an opportunity presented to you that wouldn't even exist in any of the systems you think are so much better. Rolleyes
  • 11 3
 @badbadleroybrown: so original “show us on the doll”
  • 5 3
 @dirktanzarian: I'm not disagreeing with the fact that the economy is currently rigged in favor of corporations and the wealthy. Though, I think that's due to a combination of intention and misguided policy - not a coordinated conspiracy that no single government is capable of (let alone the US, which my fellow Americans sometimes seem to think is the whole world). The parts that really got me were where he claimed that COVID is fake and that relief checks are a part of the problem. Also, the part where he posted this comment on an article about bike companies being bought. I'm not sure why so many people see this unhinged rant as relevant to the article...
  • 16 3
 @badbadleroybrown: i get where you're coming from, all optimistic and such. would be a shame to burst your happy bubble. Guess what--you do not have the same playing field as the rich and you never, ever will. Want to see a fun chart?


www.dailyadvent.com/news/f0ee1c5fcb80cb704eb9c3b508ff1a64-My-Wealth-Effect-Monitor--Wealth-Disparity-Monitor-for-the-Feds-MoneyPrinter-Economy-December-Update
  • 17 7
 @badbadleroybrown: "In capitalism, there exists opportunity for everyone to accumulate wealth" LMAO Funniest comment so far.
  • 7 29
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 22, 2022 at 15:27) (Below Threshold)
 @ace9: cool article but there's easier ways for you to tell us your financially illiterate and failing in life than sharing the words of other financially illiterate bitter poors...
  • 8 17
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 22, 2022 at 15:28) (Below Threshold)
 @matadorCE: glad you find facts funny... but I agree, the tremendous opportunities presented by capitalism not found in any other economic system always brings a smile to my face as well.
  • 15 3
 @badbadleroybrown: dude you run your mouth so much about other peoples financial situations which you clearly have no idea about, really makes me think wow you must be so financially literate and wealthy
  • 9 5
 @badbadleroybrown: show us on the doll how you got so smart and rich
  • 7 2
 @badbadleroybrown: good god man you are really funny
  • 8 2
 @badbadleroybrown: are you a professional beneficiary? Cali has tons of wipeout deadbeats from old money..... maybe daddy or granpappy had some money? and now you get some nice disty's to make you seem financial stable and knowledgeable?

game on for a literacy test. want to Teams it up? credentials? we can go a bit further than poking at each other.
  • 9 1
 9/11 was an inside job!!
  • 1 0
 @PHX77: refresh my memory on the official story again? oh wait....
  • 3 0
 @badbadleroybrown: OOOoOOoooOo OK question #1.... WHAT interest rate will, by vote, increase on 3/16. Everyone keeps jabbering about interest rates. But which one is increasing on that date.

bonus point for a correct answer on 3/15 and 3/16
  • 5 0
 I bet you my 8 year old niece would tell you it its easier to make more money with 5 mil than 50k. Smh. Where do you come from, so i make sure not to breed with any women from the general area?
  • 7 21
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 22, 2022 at 16:08) (Below Threshold)
 @ace9: yup... a professional beneficiary of capitalism, just like every other successful professional.

I know, it sounds weird to professional hand out types like you that spend all their time ranting about how evil capitalism is because you're upset by all the shit you can't afford with the work you never did to reach the position you're not in.
  • 6 5
 @badbadleroybrown: OMG Mr Brown how do you know me so well! so very insightful of you! your granpappy had some kash and he gived it to u and u think u smort
  • 5 11
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 22, 2022 at 16:13) (Below Threshold)
 @ace9: aww... look at who learned about the fed prime rate and thinks it means he knows something lol

Nice strawman attempt but, hate to break it to you, reciting terms isn't financial literacy.... and swinging that randomly out of left field in a desperate gotcha attempt just shows you lack the knowledge to actually mount an educate assault on the tremendous success of capitalism.
  • 8 4
 @badbadleroybrown: you are so proud of yourself! Im legitimately interested in seeing some credentials, leroy. Im sure a person of your stature has some sort of website or business page which lists your flawless life of capitalist accomplishments that you can direct us all to?
  • 6 3
 @badbadleroybrown: you successful professional you
  • 8 2
 This is certainly true (corps borrowing money for basically nothing to purchase other companies). It's also a big reason why real estate is so expensive. Investment groups are purchasing real estate in large cities due to the ease and low costs of loans, outbidding the locals.
  • 4 18
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 22, 2022 at 16:16) (Below Threshold)
 @pargolf8: well... if your 8 year-old niece also knows that 10% is 10% irrespective of whether you started with 50k or 5 mil, then she's miles ahead of you already.

No worries though, I've no doubt that women from my area... or elsewhere, aren't interested in "breeding" with you, despite those what's those ads you keep clicking on tell you.
  • 11 4
 I'm amazed by all those talks about capitalism, profit and whatever when we're destroying the environment so quickly. It's scary. I've just heard that China has supposedly used more concrete in 2011-2013 than the US in the whole 20th century. The whole growth thing, capitalism and what not is based on the idea of infinite resources, and we're reaching the end of it. This is gonna be ugly. Wish there was more translations of conferences by Jean Marc Jancovici or Arthur Keller. I'm starting to be glad I don't have kids.
  • 4 3
 @badbadleroybrown: hey cmon now, i was testing you, not myself.. good grief. you sure sound like you know nothing... but it worked, you knew!!!! i'm proud of you!
  • 1 0
 youtu.be/_ApPIEnAjns

I hope this Bike Companies don't die the way Alta died because of Harley Davidson.
  • 3 0
 @Pinemtn: Tim Robbins explains it pretty well in Team America, world police. youtu.be/xGn55BRyDSk
  • 10 3
 @badbadleroybrown: people with real money dont talk about it. Its something only someone with a little taste of wealth does. So tell us more sir king dick
  • 4 3
 @badbadleroybrown: how’s a nice f**k capitalism then?
  • 7 4
 @badbadleroybrown: Classic and oh so classy; claim that someone is criticizing rampant capitalism because they're poor.
  • 14 1
 "Bitter poors," good lord what an utter tool.
  • 6 0
 "Transitory" "temporary" "2 weeks to slow the curve"...
Progressive tax; bretton woods system;
The 'big reset' aka..we've kicked the can down the road so many times it too heavy to kick.
Get that $ while ya can.
  • 3 2
 @Will-narayan: We're at the the end of the resources, the alarmed was sounded back in like 2014. That's why you're seeing some countries double down with the "me first!" mentality
  • 5 5
 @Will-narayan: capitalism is what’s destroying the environment.
  • 5 2
 Thanks Alex, I'll take "What do pinkbike commenters misunderstand more than suspension kinematics?" for $500, please.
  • 6 0
 @WildboiBen: In the US at least, most big companies aren’t using banks for debt financing. If they issue debt, it’s typically in the form of bonds. Otherwise they make an equity offering by raising private money or going public. Is the Federal Reserve still a sham? Maybe, but it doesn’t factor too much into this equation. COVID handouts aka Economic Impact Payments that were handed out indiscriminately to all Americans wether they needed it or not (adjusted for income if your AGI was over 150k)—yeah, that has to factor in somewhere but that’s only partially responsible for the bike boom. Bicycle sales went up initially because more people wanted to get outside while they were stuck at home. Big movements like this in any industry is going to trigger changes, buyouts and mergers being some of the most visible ones.
  • 6 2
 @gnarlysipes: The central banks have been printing money like it's free, so large amounts of cash chasing dwindling amounts of goods = inflation, which is exactly what is happening now. The US dollar's spot as the world reserve currency seems to be coming to an end, as do all reserve currencies in history, statistically it is actually overdue to be replaced.

If China ever sold all US debt, or even valued the yuan to gold like they have threatened to and they have been buying gold and gold mines for years now, the US would be a third world country overnight. It would be like VISA selling your credit card balance to the Mob, your life would change instantly!
  • 8 2
 @badbadleroybrown:

You are flat out wrong. Do some research on how much wealth Elon Musk came from:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/elon-musk-birthday-ceo-tesla-b1874017.html?amp
  • 2 0
 @Pinemtn: I hope you are not a financial advisor with that advice. Lol.
  • 2 1
 @WildboiBen: That sums up Pinkbike and townes.
  • 2 0
 @tacklingdummy: spend it on crypto!
  • 1 0
 @Pinemtn: Or to invest it back into the market so that it grows w/ inflation, an ETF like VTI for example.
/not financial advice, don't sue me.
  • 2 1
 @zerk: i would suggest real estate if you're interested in consistent returns and less risk :-)
  • 1 2
 @Saidrick: the cream always rises to the top
  • 3 3
 We need Biden to address this asap.
  • 8 3
 @badbadleroybrown: The peasent class had no rights, no individuality. The only citizens of a state where the landowners. Since a peasent owned no land they were in effect little better than slaves. However, they had a bond with their Lord. Currently, the working class has rights, because citzenship has been granted to everyone, no matter their property values. The problem we have now is that there is no bond anymore between the worker and their boss. The whole goal is greed. Capitalism is the root of modern individuality and rights. Radrider is pointing out that the communty is hurt by individualty as there is no need to help others if there is no bond other than profit.
  • 12 1
 @badbadleroybrown: Other than being an outside+ member, what are your credentials to call others illiterate. There are literate people out there who don't agree with you. Period. Being arrogant doesn't mean you're more clever than them. It's just the opposite.
  • 2 2
 @badbadleroybrown : hohohohohoh you will all have no money by this time tomorrow hohohohoohoh Putin will freeze everyone's accounts and start the new 2022 directive hohohohohho
  • 1 1
 Well said. Came here to say the same thing.
  • 1 0
 @gnarlysipes: yeah that's the reasonable, pragmatic explanation I was looking for. lol.
  • 4 1
 @badbadleroybrown: Care to enlighten us, poor peasants with your illustrated toughts?
  • 1 1
 @radrider: Here here. Well said. And that’s why I think the next distribution of wealth or jubilee will be a shift of manpower from corporate positions to self employment.

As benefits chip away, pay doesn’t keep up with inflation, and workplace moral/atmosphere keeps degrading employees will hit a threshold and simply quit long term careers to start their own or work for a small business.

Time will tell of course but we’re seeing it with railroad and Amazon employees just to name a few.
  • 1 1
 Welcome to the innerwebs...............
  • 1 2
 A bit of short sided take. Only one of the purchasing companies in the article is a US company. Earth revolves around the sun - not the USA. Most of just need to keep riding bikes, and not try to pretend we know sh*t.
  • 1 1
 @j1sisslow: I’m not talking about just those two companies, stranger. I could call you short sighted for reading into that. The reason I mention only North American (not the USA as you misread) is because that’s the region I live in and feel comfortable sharing opinions on.
-This is where you reply saying something like my opinion is stupid and I shouldn’t have a voice on things I CLEARLY don’t know.

It was a very intentional distinction to only comment on what I felt comfortable commenting on. I’m just and ignorant redneck American though who believes the world is flat.
  • 2 3
 @Will-narayan: there is nothing in a standard economic capitalist model that indicates that resources are endless. In fact, the entire notion of free global trade and competitive advantage is based on the fact that certain countries have fixed resources and can trade more abundant resources for what they're lacking. If resources were endless then there would be WAY fewer price hikes along the supply curve due to shortages or setbacks.
I think you're confusing some of the neo-socialist/anti-capitalist rhetoric for actual economic theory.
  • 3 3
 @5afety3rd: you're confusing capitalism with consumerism. China is still one of the biggest polluters in the world even by their own doctored reporting, so the argument that capitalism is somehow destroying the economy is a very lazy Occams razor fallacy.
Do you think if we switched to socialism everyone is going to suddenly stop buying bottled water, disposable face masks, iphones, new cars, etc?
People act like capitalism is the only system that can be corrupted and it's hilarious. the disease is human greed, whether it manifests as symptoms of capitalism, communism, or fascism (looking at you Canada), it doesn't change the core issue: money corrupts what power doesn't. And when you have people in place to gain both, expect the worst.
  • 2 3
 @Bomadics: no you're wrong, I heard yesterday from Joe Biden himself that Americans have more money than ever and are better off than ever, and the president never lies or plagiarizes therefore you are incorrect, sir.
  • 3 1
 @jrocksdh: he doesn't even know his own address so I wouldn't hold your......oh you know, the thing.
  • 4 1
 @Caligula1620: Oh you again, bored are we?
  • 4 9
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 23, 2022 at 8:56) (Below Threshold)
 I just love all the consumerist millennials here crying... from devices that wouldn't exist without capitalism, on a site that wouldn't exist without capitalism, over a medium that wouldn't exist without capitalism, with free time they wouldn't have without capitalism... about how awful capitalism is. This shit is really exception ironic comedy.
  • 7 1
 @badbadleroybrown: Capitalism is lubrication for corruption, it has been designed and implemented by powerful bankers to steal money from the little people and I have proof! Check out this RAND Corporation report on how the rich stole 50 Trillion from us since 1975!

www.rand.org/pubs/working_papers/WRA516-1.html
  • 7 1
 @badbadleroybrown:

Cell phone: invented by a Russian scientist
Internet (and computers): trickle down from the US military
Carbon fiber: trickle down tech from defense and aerospace industry
GPS: trickle down from defense industry

Tell me again how Capitalism pulls itself up by it's own bootstraps....that's one of my favorite fairy tales!
  • 8 1
 @badbadleroybrown: Calling people millennials that disagree with your opinions is a true sign of arrogance. Go argue on facebook no one wants to hear you anymore.
  • 2 4
 @Bomadics: Yeah, totally... cause all the other economic systems are so free from corruption and benefit the "little people" so much. Rolleyes
  • 3 5
 @stumphumper92: Settle down lil gen z muppet... you're the only group who's opinions are even less well reasoned than millennials, and worth even less than theirs.
  • 1 6
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 23, 2022 at 9:19) (Below Threshold)
 @matadorCE: Not one of those things you listed would have made it to the consumer market and become mainstays in everyday life without the profit incentive of capitalism, genius.

But I appreciate you stopping by to show us all how poor the public education system is and how uneducated the anti-cap mob is, good stuff.
  • 5 1
 @badbadleroybrown: Did I say anything about any other system? So your only rebuttal is sarcasm, you got nothing else but calling people names? C'mon show us something, get us onboard, convince us we are wrong, cause you know you can't, the US is a floundering whale on the beach right now because of corruption/capitalism, that's why Walmart has to lock up the steaks.
  • 1 2
 @Bomadics: lol still can't take a joke eh? pretend it's a dick you might do better
  • 2 0
 @badbadleroybrown: You seem to think only capitalism has the idea of profit built into it? LMAO
  • 4 0
 @Caligula1620: ha, and you always have you head in your crotch trying to give yourself a reach around, good to see you again!
  • 1 2
 @Bomadics: lol why would I be giving myself a reach around if I can autofellatio?? jesus even your insults don't track lmao
  • 3 2
 @matadorCE: the difference is who is profiting. Capitalism for all it's faults typically sees an even distribution of private sector profiting against public sector, with it often skewing to private sector gains. In other modalities, it definitely skews towards the public sector profiting more.
Granted the underlying issue is always corruption.
  • 2 6
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 23, 2022 at 9:43) (Below Threshold)
 @Bomadics: lol

Your first mistake was thinking that I was interested in convincing you, or educating you... I'm just having a laugh at all the little failed f*ckups who love to cry about how capitalism is the worst. Apparently they stopped teaching history and economics sometime after I finished school and left all you clueless cupcakes unprepared for the facts.

You're hilarious... Walmart isn't locking up the steaks, or anything else, in my area.

And capitalism has hurt the US so much that our GDP is greater than the next two nations combined... and we have three individual states with a GDP greater than your entire country. You economically illiterate wannabe socialists have been crying about late stage capitalism and how the corrupt US is floundering and failing for generations, and you're still just as full of shit now as you were a generation ago. It's nothing more than a rallying cry for other economically illiterate failures like yourself.
  • 1 5
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 23, 2022 at 9:45) (Below Threshold)
 @matadorCE: The only system with the idea of profit for the everyday man built into it... no other system gives you anywhere near the chance to rise above your station and accumulate wealth and luxuries. If you think a socialist economy would've produced any of the shit you take for granted today, then you're even dumber than you've already proven yourself to be...
  • 5 1
 @badbadleroybrown: Yes 30 trillion in debt, huge success, huge, and that Joe Biden, sumpin to be proud of, we should take him and Trudeau and drop them into Eastern Ukraine!

You only betray your own ignorance of current events when you spout off like this, just please remember this conversation in about a year, and I hope, I really do that I am wrong and you are right, and I will apologize if I am!
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 @badbadleroybrown: it's been my experience that nobody here really understands micro or macro economic theory, or world trade, or even standard economics vs Keynesian. like most people nowadays, they conflate morality with politics, then politics with economics. it's why you can somehow be having a discussion about the CPI or inflation and it somehow devolves into racial equity conversations lol.
they're TV educated man, don't hope for any critical thought.
  • 2 2
 @Bomadics: " Joe Biden, sumpin to be proud of, we should take him and Trudeau and drop them into Eastern Ukraine!" well looks like we're in agreement on something!
and ya you're right we've been increasing the debt year over year but I would say that's a facet of our corrupt politicians than the system failing, when you look at the fine print in these bills for expenditure it's almost laughable how "in your face" the corruption is. That first covid stimulus bill was an absolute cash grab from the administration, shame people didn't see it as such.
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 @Bomadics: LMFAO... what does Joe Biden have to do with capitalism? Dudes a dementia patient elected by morons who know as little, and often less, about economics as you do. He and Trudy are unquestionably worthless, don't disagree with you at all there, but they're not related in any way to capitalism... in fact, most of sleepy Joe's promises were anti-capitalistic bullshit like his "build back better" scam and debt forgiveness bullshit. That was such a random strawman... and it works against your position, not even sure what you thought you were proving there.
  • 3 1
 @Caligula1620: you are looking at the smokescreen thinking it is real, economic theory is for universities and book educated people, the real world of money is all behind the scenes and so dirty and corrupt that if it ever saw the light of day it would fall down like the house of cards it is.

Do you know that how inflation is calculated has been changed over 15 times since 1980 to make it look better than it is, you cannot trust "official" numbers. It's like your FDA which gets 50% of it's funding from drug companies, you are letting the wolves run the chicken coop!!
  • 4 2
 @badbadleroybrown: You are holding up the US as a banner of capitalism, and Joe runs the show, or at least is the puppet they are using right now, so he is chief king shit capitalist, the poster boy for your group!
  • 1 4
 @Caligula1620: "TV educated"

Spot on... that's the big problem with just about everything these days, propagandist rhetoric being confused for facts.
  • 3 2
 @badbadleroybrown: Soooo China having pretty much the same shit that there is in the US is proof of what you're saying?? BWAHAHAHA
  • 5 4
 @Bomadics: Jesus man... every time you post something you just make yourself look dumber.

Joe Biden isn't even the chief king of his own bodily functions, let alone an entire nation. He's a perfect example of whats wrong with letting idiots like you vote and none of his policies or promises reflect capitalism in action. The only show he's running is the 'politics for dummies' show that appeals to short attention span, low information types like you.
  • 2 4
 @matadorCE: Are you under the impression that China isn't a capitalist economy today? The single largest force behind China's presence on the world stage is their acceptance of and embracement of capitalist economics.

f*ck man, we get it... you're really stupid... you don't need to work this hard to convince us, we believe you.
  • 3 1
 @badbadleroybrown: Look we agree Joe couldn't hold his own in a pig factory, but you guys let him in. I know the president doesn't run the show down there, your country is run by bankers and your capitalism allowed them to take over.

One of the best quotes which applies so well here is" You don't know what you don't know" and you clearly don't know how your own country works, now that applies to most people in all countries so your no special in that regard!
  • 3 0
 @badbadleroybrown: Pot, kettle!
  • 1 4
 @Bomadics: You continue to express a staggering level of outright ignorance and oversimplification... the fact is that Joe Biden was elected precisely by and because of people like you who believe the stupid shit you espouse. You've gone from just common economic illiteracy and general ignorance to bordering on absurd conspiracy theory at this point.

Trump was as close as we've been to an executive branch giving full support to capitalist economic principles, at least since Reagan, and he was vilified at every turn, by every side, precisely because that interrupted the developed norm of corrupt self-interest through both houses of congress... but that's a political issue and not an economic issue, and one that's easily resolved. Term limits for all members of congress, problem solved. You get four years and then get the f*ck out and you wipe away all the Pelosi's and Biden's and Schumer's who've spent their lives enriching themselves through their connections, getting rich from lobbyists, and putting their own interests ahead of the people.

But again, that has literally nothing to do with capitalism and to even suggest that it would be improved in any other economic system not only shows you don't know how your own country works, it shows you don't know how anything works in any country.
  • 1 0
 @mph51: Thanks for telling me how I should reply. Its obvious you know a lot... Got any pointers on how to hit sweet jumps?
  • 1 1
 @Bomadics: I mean, I agree with the FDA callout but you're kinda all over the place. You could say the same about the legal landscape in the country: theory and application don't marry up in the real world. But that doesn't mean we don't use a rubric to generate new laws from.
like most theoretical models, human interaction is the downfall. .
  • 2 1
 @badbadleroybrown: you go girl!
  • 3 1
 @Caligula1620: So the problem with humans is humans, so your solution is to get rid of humans?
  • 3 2
 @Bomadics: "but you guys let him in" that's a highly contentious statement for a LOT of reasons lol. we basically have one side of the political spectrum that initiates race riots every election to derail any sort of rational discussion. add onto that their increasing efforts to remove voting integrity, from blocking voter id laws to insisting on mail in voting (mind you after publicly decrying the lack of security with mail in votes, "Russia can't hack paper" Kamala "the great black imprisoner" harris.
so ya, TLDR f*ck the racist POS Joe Biden and his racist supporters
  • 2 1
 @Bomadics: haha no I'm just saying you're going to run into the issue you're outlining in any system we try to implement. So saying they don't work as intended is sort of moot/given point imo.
  • 2 2
 @badbadleroybrown: It's not, but of course you clearly wouldn't know anything about that. But definitely keep going, as this has been the funniest thread on PB yet. At this point Outside should hire you as a WWE-style heel to keep the comments section lively!
  • 1 0
 @westeast: ohohohohohoohohooh
  • 2 0
 @badbadleroybrown: bad boy assjockey
  • 1 1
 @matadorCE: you're bordering on being objectively inaccurate. leroy is right in that if it weren't for China opening up their economy and engaging with world trade in a more open capitalist method, they wouldn't be anywhere near where they are now.
not supporting anything else you've been arguing but just as an FYI, that's a pretty hard point to effectively argue. not that you guys are actually trying to have a meaningful discussion lol
  • 1 3
 @matadorCE: Outside couldn't afford me... and, no surprise, you're mistaken. China is unquestionably a capitalist economy. Any suggestion to the contrary is just you expressing your ignorance and a general inability to separate political system from economic system.
  • 6 1
 Unbridled maximum growth is the hallmark of both cancer and capitalism and neither ultimately benefits the host. What I see happening here is everyone struggling to create enough personal wealth so that the World's Problems no longer apply to them. Once a certain level is attained, the Wealth moves into gated communities with private security forces to protect them from the sufferers of the World's Problems. Very few people with the means to do so help the peasant class on the other end of the wealth disparity. Helluva system ya greedy basterds. Your only vote is your dollar, so spend wisely and do your little part to choke out the mega-greedy.
  • 6 2
 @badbadleroybrown: I know it's very hard for someone indoctrinated into the Cult of Capitalism (among other cults you probably belong to, based on some of your other comments), but capitalism is just a tool. China still has a planned economy, just not in the way it used to be a long time ago. Read a book sometime, they don't bite.
  • 1 0
 @assbap69: you having problems with google translate, bro?
  • 3 2
 @badbadleroybrown: you are an absolute JEB END! Buuuuuurrrrrrrhhhhhhhh
  • 4 0
 @Caligula1620: But your saying capitalism works, but everything else is broken because of humans?
  • 1 7
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 23, 2022 at 12:14) (Below Threshold)
 @suspended-flesh: Holy shit... it's like y'all are in a competition to say the dumbest shit and express the least sound understanding of capitalism.

Fact check: Households with a net worth of $1 million or more averaged charitable donations of nearly $45,000 last year... households with a net worth of less than $1 million averaged less than $3000.

Tell us more about how few wealthy people give to the less fortunate. Rolleyes

How many jobs are the "peasant class" creating? How much income are they creating for others?
  • 1 1
 @Bomadics: huh? i'm saying nothing works to the theoretical efficiency level for which it was designed, due to human error. Capitalism "works" to the best of its potential, the failures are largely human driven. Just like with communism; excellent on paper, but in practice kills millions of people and consolidates power often to one tyrannical leader.
  • 1 1
 @matadorCE: you know you could substantiate your arguments instead of just making personal attacks, might make a better case for yourself. maybe pull some facts out of those books you're pushing??
  • 3 0
 @Caligula1620: Right your description applies to Capitalism too, except the leaders are hidden to protect them from us.

All of the systems are rigged by the elite at the top of the pile, the systems, all of them, are designed to work for them so they can exploit us as slaves, or did you not know you are a debt slave?

None of your taxes go to running the country, your taxes pay the interest on the debt, the government has to borrow to actually run the country.
  • 3 1
 @badbadleroybrown: he's not really that far off though dude. telling people to vote with their dollar is hardly dumb. if we had more of that mentality we'd have less ipad wielding socialists, or anti slavery nike wearers.
  • 1 1
 @Bomadics: ya, again I feel like I keep saying that this doesn't exclude capitalism. You sure you're not trying so hard to make a point you're missing that we're in agreement?
"All of the systems are rigged by the elite at the top of the pile, the systems, all of them, are designed to work for them so they can exploit us as slaves, or did you not know you are a debt slave?" yes I know this, I learned it in 8th grade. Also I'm 100% debt free so, y'know not really a slave there.
"None of your taxes go to running the country, you taxes pay the interest on the debt, the government has to borrow to actually run the country." literally never made a claim otherwise.
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 @Caligula1620: You are saying capitalism works, when it clearly does not!

You are a debt slave, or did you pay off the 30 trillion too? Who do you think pays that debt, you, your kids, your grandkids, and so on. The US debt will be defaulted on, it is not possible to pay off ever, all us citizens are debt slaves, actually all countries with central banks are slaves to their debts, why are you not shocked that your government does not control your money supply?
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 @matadorCE: Saying it twice doesn't make you right the second time, it just makes you look stupid twice... China has a capitalist economy.

Take your own advice and read a book... but switch things up and make it one that's not an illustrated pop-up book written for children for a change.
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 @Bomadics: how does capitalism not work? because corruption? ok then no system works. see where we're headed with that line of thinking?
Ok ya if we're talking national debt, then again, everyone who pays taxes is a debt slave. don't ask me my opinions on taxes lol.
"why are you not shocked that your government does not control your money supply?" again bc most of us learned this school like 20 years ago. The national debt isn't a new concept, nor is the concept of inflation, stagflation, or recessions. do they not teach economics in Canada??
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 @Bomadics: It works demonstrably better than every other economic system... claiming otherwise is borderline delusional.

You seem to be stuck on a disconnect between us saying capitalism is the best system and you thinking we're saying capitalism is a flawless system. No system made by men will ever be flawless but capitalism does the most to mitigate the inherent self-interest and corruption of men to preserve opportunity for all classes of citizen. It is an indisputable fact that capitalism has created more wealth for more people than any other system. Suggesting that's not the case purely because it also benefited those who were already wealthy is, at best, disingenuous, and more likely just pure stupidity. Every other system concentrates both power and wealth to a greater extent than capitalism, which I'm sure you would agree is worse... right?
  • 1 1
 @Bomadics: I guess I can sum up my response to everything you're saying with: "ya, no shit. what's your point"
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 @Caligula1620: Hah, the US is broke, stone cold broke and your saying capitalism works?? The us government does not control their own money, and you are so blinded by the propaganda for 20 years that you are actually trying to sell the system that has enslaved you, and my own country too.

You are confusing hype with facts, do you even know what the Bank of International Settlements is, because that is where your tax dollars are going!

www.bis.org
  • 4 2
 @Caligula1620: Capitalism sucks, does not work and has ruined your and my country, that's my point, or have you not been reading anything?
  • 4 1
 @badbadleroybrown: Dude you have no idea how wrong you are, and I fear you will never crawl out of your cave to see what's out there beyond your US media bullshit and your clearly limited education.
  • 1 5
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 23, 2022 at 12:40) (Below Threshold)
 @Bomadics: Wishing you a speedy recovery from your head injury mate... traumatic brain injuries are no joke, get well soon.
  • 2 1
 @Caligula1620: If you care enough about the topic, put in some work and pull the numbers up yourself. Also not going to tell you what books to read because the real answer is 'all of them' so that you can put together your own informed opinion. About the personal attacks, you sure you're replying to the correct screenname?
  • 7 1
 Actually, you can’t separate the political system from the economic, to do so would be to oversimplify things. Like with every “ism”, there is a dictionary definition that fits in a few lines and a deeper definition that takes textbooks to cover. Yes, China has private ownership of capital and uses the profit motive to direct output, but it also has heavy state “visible hand” direction of capital expenditure and lacks true property rights due to a government that is above the law. And this is but a small example of china’s aberrations. I’m pretty sure Adam Smith would not consider China a properly capitalist state. Remember, in his time the study of economics was, in fact, called “political economy”. He nor his contemporaries separated the two, that is a more recent phenomenon.

But going back to the debate above, I think the argument is framed very poorly by pitting “capitalists” vs “anti capitalists”. Doing so just creates apologists for an obviously broken system against those who would tear it all down, with no regard for how much good it has indeed done. One only need read the comments above to see that.

Of course capitalism in its basic form has elevated humanity above any other system tried or hypothesized. That doesn’t make it above criticism, especially in its current form. We, in the west, have been under capitalist regimes for hundreds of years but priorities have changed due to, well, politics. For almost 40 years the rules have been changing almost exclusively to the benefit of capital. The liberalization of financial markets, the mass privatization of public assets, the increased independence of central banks (and then the reversal of said independence to support asset markets), the expansion of the WTO and especially the inclusion of China on “most favoured nation” status, the dismantling of defined benefit pensions in favour of defined contribution, the increasing reluctance to enforce anti trust, the bailouts in the wake of the gfc, and the continued use of hyper aggressive monetary policy to support asset prices. This is just the above board stuff. As the influence of capital has grown, it has created an unhealthy inter connectivity with government that is harder to measure. As such, if you’ve been a good capitalist these past few decades and squirrelled away some investments, good for you but please don’t fool yourself into thinking it was “all you” and wasn’t helped by a MASSIVE tailwind of beneficial politics.

And please don’t suggest anyone could do it or that Elon musk and the 50k a year earner face similar opportunities to benefit from capital growth. Since we’re all econs experts here, we should remember that the marginal propensity to save is solely the function of income and wealth over large groups. And, going a little further into financial microeconomics, the ability to invest in longer term risky assets (such as equity) is a function of wealth. The 50k a year saver is less inclined to invest in the vagaries of the equity market if he may need to tap his savings in the case of an unexpected mishap. Elon musk can invest in long duration illiquid private equity projects, and always could due to daddy owning emerald mines.

Does that mean I think capitalism needs to be dismantled for some kind of resurrection of failed socialism now based on a vague notion of racial justice or whatever it is? Of course not, but I do think we need to look at how we’ve prioritized big capital to the benefit of the quarter of society who have been co-opted into the interests of big business through 401ks and the like. I do believe that what we have now in the west would rankle Adam Smiths notion of “capitalism” and could better be described as “corporatism”. Perhaps we need a little more real capitalism after all.

Wait, what was this article about again?
  • 3 1
 @badbadleroybrown: LMAO The irony of this statement is next level
  • 2 1
 @Bomadics: by your rationale nothing works that has faults. given that your own life is likely not perfect, I'd suggest ending it to avoid the glaring hypocrisy your existence poses to your beliefs.
  • 2 1
 @matadorCE: ahhh gotcha, since you can't provide specifics you instead provide generalities. thanks for confirming my suspicion that this was a waste of time.
  • 4 0
 @badbadleroybrown: when you get backed into a corner all you have is juvenile insults? C'mon you must have a better argument than making fun of people with head injuries, what's next making fun of the disabled?
  • 2 1
 @Bomadics: just because something has faults doesn't mean it doesn't work. As a system for avoiding debt, sure you're right it doesn't work. For a system to elevate the average citizen to new economic heights, it's factually the most equitable system to date.
"The us government does not control their own money" Again, I know this, stop listing it as if it's a point that we're debating. "and you are so blinded by the propaganda for 20 years that you are actually trying to sell the system that has enslaved you, and my own country too." who says I'm selling the system? I'm saying corruption isn't relegated to the capitalist system, and that the inefficiencies in it's application are largely human driven as there is nothing in standard economic theory that says "Hey when you need to, borrow trillions of dollars from other countries in perpetuity"
If you took the time to research any economic theory you'd understand why your argument is baseless.
If you want to just plug your ears and say "capitalism sucks" then go ahead I won't stop you, I'm not arguing that it's a perfect system but to say it doesn't work is just silly at this point unless you can establish what metrics you find a system to "work" in.
  • 2 1
 @Bomadics: so a theoretical concept ruined your country? or did the people enforcing these concepts ruin your country? That's my whole point. The comment section isn't by itself stupid, it's just substantiated by stupid comments. See what I mean?
  • 2 1
 @Caligula1620: love the extrapolation, and that's your comeback, stamp you feet because I don't think capitalism works well, and then apply that error to everything in the universe, wow you should work with Biden, you and him have much in common.
  • 2 0
 @Caligula1620: duh, Whut?
  • 1 1
 @Bomadics: hahaha what?? dude are you trying to talk to text or did you start drinking early? seriously have no idea wtf you are trying to say. but ya go ahead and ignore all the points and devolve back into the "you and Biden" comments. such a good look on you.
btw just curious, is a computer broken just because the user doesn't understand it's functions?
or if that's too hard, just do this: provide an example of a system of governance or economic function that is corruptionless, or can manage massive economies to the degree of success that capitalism has?
  • 5 3
 @Poachninja: Kudos... I don't agree with you entirely but that was hands down, and by far, the closest any capitalist detractor has managed to come to an erudite analysis of the situation. Beer
  • 2 1
 @Bomadics: haha I knew I was gonna go over your head eventually.
you're confusing application with theory. if application dictates the validity of a theory, then nothing works.
even your theoretical existence that you derive from morals and values is likely compromised, so in essence, YOUR LIFE DOESN'T WORK EITHER!
  • 1 6
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 23, 2022 at 13:02) (Below Threshold)
 @Bomadics: Mate, you couldn't back me into a corner with a fleet of f*cking semi trucks. To be honest, you'd stand a better chance of mustering up a cogent argument if you just ate a bowl of alphabet soup and shit the letters back out.

And I'm not making fun of your head injury... I'm wishing you a quick and full recovery. I would hate to see someone stuck with the level of cognitive impairment you're demonstrating long term.
  • 2 2
 @Caligula1620: you have your beliefs, and I have mine, time will prove who is right, I wish you the best but I have to run, it was fun debating with you.

I never want to change anyone's beliefs, nor do I actually expect to, you could not change my belief's, I just like screwing around with people that take the bait!
  • 2 1
 @Poachninja: "Of course capitalism in its basic form has elevated humanity above any other system tried or hypothesized. That doesn’t make it above criticism, especially in its current form"
exactly!
it has it's faults, I don't think anyone is arguing that. and I think you can make a good case to it being broken, but the why/how its broken is the rub. trying to educate people that just think capitalism as a system promotes corruption and poor economic practices, rather than being corrupted by human input, is maddening.
  • 2 1
 @badbadleroybrown: Ha, have good day mate, ride hard and fast!
  • 1 4
 @Bomadics: Time has already proven who's right... Capitalism won, and it keeps winning. Your continued failing isn't a problem with capitalism, it's a problem with you.
  • 3 1
 @badbadleroybrown: Love you too!
  • 2 1
 @Bomadics: haha dude what are you on about?! neither one of us can be proven right! I wouldn't even call this a debate as you never provided anything substantive to your claims and almost purposefully misinterpreted every point I tried to make.
"I just like screwing around with people that take the bait!" unless you find your time to be completely valueless, I'd maybe hesitate to boast about that as the joke would be on you as much as anyone else.
  • 2 1
 @Caligula1620: Kisses to you too!
  • 1 1
 @Bomadics: "i have to run" (keeps sending responses) lol ok bud.
  • 2 1
 @Caligula1620: Can't is very different than Don't Feel Like It because it will most likely be a waste of time. It's not like what i'm saying is hard to find. Providing figures, numbers, citations, etc, etc, won't help against the strawman arguments largely being made in this thread.
  • 2 1
 @matadorCE: loool and you're trying to lecture other people on irony. ok
  • 3 1
 @Caligula1620: That's not really the point. What I mean is that the whole world is living on fossile resources that were there millions of years before human existed, that we burned half of it in less than 2 centuries, and that all we hear about is "economic growth" (fueled mostly by capitalism, but probably other models as well) that'll burn the second half in just a few decades. But the proponents of all this are telling you not to worry because the human and his super-duper brain will find a new technology to keep growing for no reason (because while all of us "westerners" already have the equivalent of 400 slaves, that's not quite enough).
The problem is not even ecologic or economic or climatic, it's philosophical, it's about humans thinking about their place in the world, to realise we're part of it, and that the world is not just a pile of resources at our disposal just waiting to be turned into wastes.
  • 1 1
 @Will-narayan: "The problem is not even ecologic or economic or climatic, it's philosophical, it's about humans thinking about their place in the world, to realise we're part of it, and that the world is not just a pile of resources at our disposal just waiting to be turned into wastes." ya you can focus on changing the collective zeitgeist but I wouldn't put any stock into that mass awakening happening in any of our lifetimes.
I think you're ignoring some pretty concerted and at this point global efforts to find solutions to the problems though, and while wind turbines and electric cars have their own downsides, it's a sign that we're beyond talking about the problems and actually searching for solutions.
Lastly, human ingenuity has literally been the catalyst for so many environmental saving graces over the centuries that you're being incredibly intellectually dishonest (or naïve) about the impact that it plays on improving our collective footprint. the list of wins is longer than the list of losses, but doom and gloom is a bigger ROI on ad dollars so that's all we hear.
  • 2 2
 @badbadleroybrown: Enjoy wiping your ass on your own in your old age.
  • 2 1
 How many are private equity bust outs? Buy them up, load them up with debt while paying themselves massive 'fees', then bankrupt them. The Toys R Us playbook.
  • 2 2
 @Caligula1620: why do people expect everything for free? If you dont believe it, go look it up yourself. I'm not going to do your homework for you.
  • 2 2
 @Adamrideshisbike: there’s no such thing as crony capitalism. There’s capitalism and not capitalism, and “not capitalism” also has cronies.
  • 3 2
 @eugenux: zero emissions, no oil, the massive reduction in part count associated to internal combustion engines, justify electrical vehicles having a lower carbon footprint then analog vehicles.
  • 1 1
 @radrider: you’ve just described the entire human existence going back to the stone age.
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 @thustlewhumber: peasants were dying long before capitalism was created.
  • 2 0
 @Bomadics: you know you need someone buying to sell something. If China wants to sell US debt they have it could damage US economy but not to the extent you are simplifying here. It could make harder to the US to increase their debt but no much more than that
  • 1 1
 @Krol: more than 100 years of economic theory proof you wrong
  • 4 0
 @Poachninja: Top shelf comment. Thanks for taking the time.
  • 2 0
 @matadorCE: lol you think substantiating a point you're making is aking to a hand out? lol, I think of it more as "if you're going to tell people to read 'all the books' you could at least show us the behavior you're trying to elicit, and back up some of your arguments with facts rather than insults"
but hey it's easier just assume you're right and everyone is dumb but you, I get it. and backing up your claim is the first step to either reaffirming or completely debasing your values, and I'm sure you're not willing to risk that blow to your self esteem.
cheers and godspeed on your intellectual dwarfism.
  • 1 2
 @Caligula1620: Nice bait, but I still won't take. Dismiss it however you want, but if you *truly* wanted an exchange of ideas you wouldn't be so quick to throw out amateur insults and putdown--but that's not why you're in the comments, right?. That's how I know you're another one just baiting people into dumb arguments and beat them with experience...and I'm not playing. You ever heard of Hitchen's Razor? I use it often in these types of "debates".
  • 1 4
 @matadorCE: When you say Hitchen's Razor, what you actually mean is cognitive bias... and yes, we've seen how much you rely upon it.
  • 1 2
 @badbadleroybrown: ah yes, the King of Irony chiming in!
  • 3 0
 @matadorCE: lol oh my god you are referencing hitchens razor after refusing to list any evidence this whole time? AND YOU'RE STILL LECTURING PEOPLE ABOUT IRONY!! haha jesus that clown make up must be so thick it's suffocating you.
  • 1 0
 @matadorCE: you clearly have no concept of irony as you're essentially caste in it at this point lmmfao
  • 1 0
 @matadorCE: you: Stop trying to 'bait' me into validating my arguments I won't fall for it XD
  • 1 0
 @Caligula1620: I don't owe you anything LOL I can see that annoys the crap out of you.
  • 2 0
 @matadorCE: *entertains more like, this is like some sort of masochism on your part, every time you try to clap back you make a bigger ass of yourself but you're too ignorant or just actually dumb to tell. good luck with that dude, you're a waste of time. peace
  • 1 2
 @Caligula1620: you and leroywhatever's clapbacks at this point essentially boil down to "but the other kid doesn't want to play with me, mommy, whaaaaaa!" LMFAO
  • 1 0
 @matadorCE: describing yourself as a kid is the most accurate point you've made rofl
  • 1 0
 @Caligula1620: aaaand I'm still living in your head for free
  • 2 3
 @matadorCE: I'm sure that's a nice upgrade from living in your mom's basement for free... congrats!
  • 3 0
 @matadorCE: lol and again captain irony deepthroats his entire foot in an incredibly misguided effort to score internet points. seriously this is like a biblical amount of self flagellation, get help
  • 1 2
 @Caligula1620: Get help? LOL Says the one arguing with multiple people on here trying (and failing) to call me out for trying to score internet points? You and leroywhatever are either the same person, best buds, or should just make out already.
  • 2 2
 @matadorCE: Dude, he is a sex obsessed troll or an AI bot trying to learn how to be more like a human and failing, so just ignore him/it!
  • 2 4
 @matadorCE: Still can't tell if you're being deliberately ironic or if you're just that stupid... but if we're betting, my money's on you just being that stupid for sure.
  • 1 0
 @Bomadics: you think I'm dope, thanks dude 3
  • 1 1
 @Poachninja:
proper comment. Our 24/7 captain capitalist here could not grasp a simple China related fact.. but, he writes like he has, at least, two Nobel prises in economics; he's the definition of what us, outside NA d.vmb fveck 'murican. He might also be quite old and a little out of touch with current world state. Either way, a fvecking a$$.hole!
  • 4 0
 @Caligula1620: I don't know, I feel people are not aware of the order of magnitude that's at play and think we'll just switch our combustion cars for electric ones and be done with it.
World electricity production is about 60% fossile based.
World global energy mix is about 80% fossile.
Will electric cars and wind turbine allow to turn this to near 0% ? I doubt it (even with solar and a few other things).
Fusion nuclear is supposed to be the answer, but it'll take several decades before we get there, if we get there, we're not even sure it'll work.
Is there enough material to electrify as many things as possible ?

Also I don't think I'm being dishonest. Human ingenuity may have done some great things (agriculture which led to settlement which led to shift from hunter-gatherer to civilization, though one could argue it also has quite a bit of negatives), or medicine, but all of progress since 200 years is based on : burning wood then burning coal then burning oil & gas.
Forests is Europe (at least in France) were in pretty bad shape at some point, slowly going the way of eastern island as we burned the trees to fuel steam engines, until we discovered coal.
To me what is intellectually dishonnest or naive is placing so much glory on human "progress" without aknowledging that it's based mostly on burning fossile resources that have been there for tens of millions of years and that are pretty much a single event in the life of the planet.
For instance slavery hasn't stop because man has supposedly become good, but because coal and oil powered machines are more efficient than slaves. Wait for things to get bad and your landowner will turn you into a slave peasant of kick you out of "his" land.

Also I don't think doom and gloom is all that we hear, we barely hear it, as said in the beginning, most people think we'll switch from combustion to electric and voilà. The news on TV tell you about global warming for 2 minutes, then for half an hour they'll tell you about business and consumption through advertorial.
The biggest narrative in our society remains the same : Success = making money.
And I agree we won't see a change, as long as this narrative doesn't change. We all need money, but we also need limits.
  • 3 0
 @Will-narayan: Great points, I agree wholeheartedly. I think I'm being optimistic out of some obligatory sense to be so, but in reality you're spot on with the subsurface challenges around our current solutions. Just gotta do what we can on an individual level to help change the attitude towards our consumerism and global impact, and hope the wave catches on as the technological advances happen. Cheers!
  • 1 0
 The Fed is printing money like crazy and giving it to everybody, and you blame the recipients? This is why it keeps happening.
  • 1 4
 @TNTall: Yes you blame the recipients... because the hand out, give me free stuff, mob are the morons who voted for the a*sholes printing all the money.
  • 2 1
 @badbadleroybrown: of course, oh great leader. Oh why, oh why those poor dvmb fvecks didn't hire you to make the economic strategy?, I bet you are even greater in geo-politics!!, besides being such a great personality, what are your real set of skills? ... because.. to me, you look like one of those fvecking big mouth du.mb arrogant asset traders.. ; am I right or am I right?
Not a single person who built something from scratch, who built a business from zero and got wealth out of it, isn't that arrogant. Traders and brokers are so, which one are you?
  • 2 0
 @suspended-flesh: Accurate analysis. The very wealthy certainly live in their artificial insulated lives.
  • 1 0
 @radrider:
You just hit the nail on the head!
  • 1 3
 @eugenux: lol

Both... and we can see you're neither. Maybe an education would serve you better than the handouts you've become accustomed to, of course it may just be too late for you.
  • 2 1
 @badbadleroybrown:

neah.. let me hope you're just a loud mouth asset trader because, those damn brokers are worse than ebola.. basically, the shittiest type of ppl in the world.. the equivalent of Putin, if Putin would have been born a middle(upper?) class 'murican.
  • 1 5
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 25, 2022 at 9:24) (Below Threshold)
 @eugenux: Tell me more about how you're poor, ignorant, and envious of more successful and intelligent traders earning their money through a system you don't understand. This is truly fascinating stuff... Rolleyes
  • 1 0
 @Krol: is greed ROI? Is it going public and then being oart6of a fund that maybe in a 401k or other retirement/investment?
  • 2 4
 @jrocksdh: As far as the anti-capitalist mob is concerned, anything that earns you money that they weren't given is just you being greedy.
  • 3 1
 @badbadleroybrown:

continue with your excellent stories, I'm a fan!, you realize I actually find your comments mildly entertaining, right?

one serious question though(actually two).. and that is, why do you think ppl think you are a douche because of your money?..., and the second is, why do you think you are the only person in this world that aquired wealth?, not reffering to me, I can't afford a brand new Porsche but I am doing alright.. but, my dear ass(et) trader, why do you think you are the only one in the world with wealth? *kisses&hugs*
  • 1 3
 @eugenux: Can you quote where I've tried to claim that I'm wealth... you clowns are all so caught up in an us vs them mentality based in ignorance that you just immediately assume anyone who's intelligent enough to comprehend the benefits of capitalism must be a part of the 1%. As I said last time someone tried to take that route... I'm maybe a 6-7%, I've done well for myself but I'm far from being a wealthy elite and it's honestly not something I aspire to. But, also as I said previously, my inclusion or exclusion from the elites doesn't have any bearing on the objective reality that capitalism is, by an enormous margin, the best economic system ever conceived of and implemented by people. Unlike you lot, my perspective is based upon objective reality rather than my subjective success.

As for why you or anyone else on Pinkbike thinks I'm a douche... I am so terribly sorry if anything I've ever said has given you the impression that I give even the tiniest of f*cks about what you lot think of me. To be clear, I would be highly concerned if the low IQ flock of sheep that make up the majority of pinkbike users liked me... popularity is not an indicator for righteousness, morality, or success, and it's often contraindicative of each of those things. Beer
  • 6 1
 @badbadleroybrown: A few facts about you since you claim objective viewpoint, let's examine you objectively:

1) you have plenty of time to spend on Pinkbike with over 22,000 posts in the forum alone.
2) you enjoy profanity and I believe you feel that makes you sound powerful.
3) you call people names that remind me of high school banter, from terrified teenagers.
4) you claim not to care what anyone thinks of you, yet the time spent here in the comments section seems to me to contradict that claim
5) you are a capitalist and feel that material goods and consumerism make you a better human being.
6) you assume anyone with an opinion different from your own is a less intelligent human, the classic trait of a narcissist.
  • 1 4
 @Bomadics:
Only one of those was a fact, the rest were just ignorant opinions you came up with because you're an ignorant person and can't actually refute any real facts so you're turning it into a desperate little ad hom attack like most folks with your subpar IQ are wont to do.

But, just for funsies:
1. Yes... 4.68 posts per day is extremely time consuming, it really takes away from my other interests!
2. I don't have any particular feeling either way about profanity... unlike emotional lil sheep like you, words don't hurt me and only represent accurately conveying thought. I'll call a f*cking idiot a f*cking idiot instead of a fool because those are different things. Not to worry, we already knew that basic language was a subject beyond your limited intellect so I can see how you got confused and turned it into an emotional thing.
3. Cool story about the names you were called from people you presumed to be terrified... good to know you've been a useless shithead your entire life and it's not a recent thing. Not sure how it's relevant but, good to know. Thanks for sharing.
4. Please feel free to quote the comment I've made that gave you the mistaken impression that I care about you or what you think.
5. I am a capitalist but, again unlike you clowns, I don't think material goods define anything apart from what I like to spend my money on... money doesn't define anyone, being poor doesn't make you virtuous and being rich doesn't make you evil, contrary to the assertions from your side of the isle. I'm a better human being because I deal with reality and facts and erase my ignorance when I find it instead of getting caught in my emotions and ignorance and digging in.
6. No, I don't assume that anyone with an opinion different from my own is a less intelligent human... I just assume that you morons are less intelligent because you've demonstrated yourselves to be so. But I'm sure you have a psychology degree that gives you a solid foundation upon which to try to diagnose someone based on a selection of comments on the internet, right? Surely you're not so much stupider than me that you would just be talking out of your ass while simultaneously complaining about my presumptions of intelligence, right? Cause that would be some really epic irony... lol
  • 3 1
 @badbadleroybrown: thanks for underlining ALL of my points!
  • 1 3
 @Bomadics: Aww... it's cute that you think you made a point. Fab

Unless your point was that you're an idiot and can't form a cogent rebuttal to the fact that Capitalism is, by far, the best economic system humanity has ever had then, sorry, but you didn't make a point.
  • 1 1
 @badbadleroybrown:

"your" capitalism is too idealistic; it has no nuances and that makes me thing you perceive reality in a very un-realistic way.

I don't question your wealth or your econimic literacy.. I'm just saying you lack balance.
  • 4 2
 @badbadleroybrown: My point was to piss you off, to make you waste more time ranting and raving at me like a lunatic keyboard warrior, my goal has been achieved my friend (drop the mike)!
  • 1 3
 @eugenux: Incorrect... the fact is that capitalism is the best system, period. There's no nuance there. Name a system that did more for people, name a system that did more for the world.

Your entire argument is that capitalism is bad because corrupt people do corrupt things which results in bad things. THAT is a position without nuance, and it's based entirely on the false premise that other systems somehow prevent this from happening... which is phenomenally unrealistic.

The fact is that there is corruption in all systems because men are corruptible. This is a constant, this isn't changing. Under every other system, the corruption is worse and there is less recourse for the victims of corruption. These aren't opinions, they're objective reality that's been supported by centuries of world history.
  • 2 3
 @Bomadics: Aww... you think I care enough about you for you to be able to piss me off with comments you make online! lol

Man, you're just full of fantasies that you put a lot of belief in aren't you?

If your goal was to out yourself as a desperate, ignorant, lonely human who wants to troll the internet for reactions, you certainly succeeded but, again, these things were never in doubt so you really didn't need to put all that effort into it. But hey, good job lil guy.
  • 5 2
 @Bomadics: Solid analysis of badbadleroybrown. I'm guessing it's like that all over the world, but it's definitely like that here in the States, where the wealthy automatically think they are superior, simply because they have generated wealth. It definitely dove tails with self importance and narcissism.
  • 1 5
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 25, 2022 at 15:55) (Below Threshold)
 @mybaben: you know, not for nothing but, it'd be a whole lot harder to think I'm intellectually superior to you if you could manage to compose grammatically correct and complete sentences and spell shit right... but at this point, every statement you make really just proves that I am.
  • 1 1
 @badbadleroybrown: You're quite a piece of work. My grammar and spelling are just fine.
  • 3 1
 @mybaben: @badbadleroybrown: yes but his grammar and spelling are terrible, that's obviously one of his many triggers to fly into another keyboard rage, watch it'll happen again now!
  • 1 3
 @mybaben: you wrote an incomplete sentence, followed by an over punctuated run-on sentence, followed by another incomplete senescence, and you misspelled "dovetail" as two words. Nah kid, your grammar and spelling aren't just fine... not even by public school standards. But that you think it's fine only highlights that you are intellectually inferior. Nice effort though lol
  • 1 4
 @Bomadics: aww... you still think people care enough about you to warrant an emotional response lol
  • 3 0
 @badbadleroybrown: you just did, you just pretended to be calm! You are soooo predictable always, always needing the last word! How's that for a well structured senescence?
  • 1 4
 @Bomadics: awww... you're still desperately hoping someone out there thinks you matter enough to get emotional over you, that's so sad.

That was poor, extremely poor, sentence structure.
  • 3 1
 @badbadleroybrown: I knew it, you could not not resist that narssacisistic childish urge to have the last word! Dude, you are so easy to predict!

If you really did'nt care you would not respond! Betcha can't just walk away, c'mon try!
  • 1 5
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 26, 2022 at 13:52) (Below Threshold)
 @Bomadics: wait... so you keep responding to get the last word but I'm the one who can't resist responding because I need the last word?

Are you actually retarded or do you just role play as a retard online?
  • 4 1
 @badbadleroybrown: Since you have gone back down to your Hemet basement to call people "Retards*" and attack their grammar and spelling, have a look in the mirror:

".....contrary to the assertions from your side of the isle."

I think you meant "Aisle" unless you really do believe you are sharing an island like a member of Cyprus Hill.

*that alone should earn you a Suspension shortly.
  • 3 1
 @suspended-flesh: That's just the tip of the iceberg, direct cut and paste from his post above,

" incomplete senescence, and you misspelled "dovetail" as two words.":

Gotta love that, it's like watching someone try to pick their nose using someone else's foot!
  • 1 5
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 26, 2022 at 23:57) (Below Threshold)
 @suspended-flesh: aww... can't fight facts so you gonna cry to mods about suspension, typical candy ass cowardice. lol
  • 1 5
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 26, 2022 at 23:59) (Below Threshold)
 @Bomadics: ah yes, autocomplete is the same as random commas and broken sentences... man, with that kind of stupidity no wonder economics is so far beyond your abilities.
  • 3 2
 @badbadleroybrown: So what you are telling us is even with the help of a computer you still can't spell, and you are too cool to proof read something you type before posting, while you posting about everyone's poor spelling!

Dude you really need to spend some time alone and maybe listen to what you are saying, you manage to refute your own arguments in your own posts without even realizing how hypocritical you are. I am keeping you posting for as long as possible, you are your own worst enemy, please continue to insult me, I need the laughs!

Oh an just one more point, only preteen girls still use emoji's dude!
  • 1 2
 @Bomadics: omfg both of you guys need to stfu already. and yes I realize the hypocrisy in my saying that since I contributed but holy shit you guys need to find a hobby or some better outlet of your time. I thought this was just work week outlets but you guys clearly have so little going on in your life that this is THAT important to you. Leroy just give it a rest you're not making a new points. Bomadics give it a rest on the trolling, nobody buys the "i'm loling at you wasting your time", have some awareness and realize how much you're cheapening your own time and intellect in the process.
GO RIDE YOUR BIKES AND SHUT THE f*ck UP.
  • 3 3
 @Caligula1620: Triggered again eh, I have said it before, you are the entertainment here! I didn't even try to bother you and I did, you two are so easy to predict you may actually be the same person. take your own advice stop responding to me, I bet you can't can you, do it, try to walk away, be the better person, show me up, make me look stupid!
  • 2 5
 @Bomadics: nah, that's not what I'm telling you but we've already established that you've got serious intellectual disabilities so it's no shock that you got it wrong... and I'm not too cool to proofread, you're just not worth the effort, but you already knew that.

Tell us more about all the time you spend with preteen girls, Chester.
  • 2 2
 @badbadleroybrown: so the rest of us have to have perfect grammar and spelling or we are stupid, but if you do it it is because it requires too much effort, good to know!

By the way do you even know anything about bad Leroy brown, your namesake?
  • 3 1
 @badbadleroybrown: pay attention to 1 thing and 1 thing only!, by replying to every damn comment, calling ppl names, the only thing you manage is to lose credibility.(22k comments in the forums does not help either)
Better to leave this comment section for a while and just ride your damn bikes.. it clears the mind(I promise)!(and, for you, it seems that one is loooong-overdue)
  • 1 4
 @Bomadics: No... the rest of your are stupid regardless of your spelling and grammar, it's not an if/then relationship. If you weren't stupid then you'd know the difference between autocomplete replacing a word and someone using a flurry of commas and incomplete sentences, but I guess even basic composition shit like that is too far beyond you for comprehension.
  • 1 4
 @eugenux: If mindless clowns like you ever found me to be credible, I'd have to seriously rethink the direction my life had taken... rode my bike Saturday, gonna ride again today... maybe take your own advice, except with education cause your mind is way too clear. It's past time for you to start filling your mind with some facts, go find a library or a school and get to work bud.
  • 1 2
 @Bomadics: you're making yourself look plenty stupid so I'll just leave you to it lol. (insert your sophomoric 'oh I got you' response here.) if making people you find to be dumb get irritated is your version of fun I think you're missing what that says about your intellect. oh well. now if Pinkbike would actually block you idiots like I keep asking it to....
  • 1 0
 @badbadleroybrown: you're progressing buddy.. from mildly entertaining to a good giggle at every post you make. Watch it, you might end up being a joke and whatever decent things you wrote in this section to become equal to zero from a value pov because, you know, how can a dummy at life, like you, could possibly know what's what?! (well, it can't)

by the way, do ask yourself why you write such complex answers and deep(in your imagination) analyses if you have no plan in educate or enlight others?, because, buddy, I hate to breake it to you but, if you are doing this just for yourself, just to see yourself debating and commenting.. well, I have news for you!, what I mean is, you will need much more than just bike rides to clear or solve that; and no, there is no shame in asking for help so, have the courage to do it, to take the first step!, I promise, you will feel much better in time. Good luck!
  • 1 5
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 28, 2022 at 8:26) (Below Threshold)
 @eugenux: lol Four line answers are complex and deep in your little mind? lol

And you wonder why I have no regard for your opinions and think you're unintelligent wastes of air and space.

But I'm glad you've got a lot of experience with asking for help, you'll need it as you search for a teacher to help you overcome your intellectual disabilities. Good luck with that!
  • 2 0
 @Caligula1620: So your idea of debate is to run to Daddy an tell on us, again like I said before you are a laugh a minute, I knew you weren't man enough to walk away, oh great Caligula that killed most of his family, and bankrupted Rome, some hero you got there!
  • 2 0
 @eugenux: Dude, he spends his life either riding a bike, or on Pinkbike posting thousands of times, furiously educating us on how to be better people while spewing insults and attacking any idea contrary to his own narrow viewpoint.

He is clearly avoiding something too difficult to confront in his life by hypocritically pointing out others perceived failings, and the worst punishment I could think of is to just let him live his life, he seems to have no idea what a black little hole he is trapped in.
  • 1 1
 @badbadleroybrown: So your tired attempt at an insult requires little in means of a reply, so we'll go straight into your name, Bad Bad Leroy Brown was a two bit bully with a gun that hit on another man's wife and as a result was beaten and left bleeding on the floor of a bar, nice hero you got there dude!
  • 1 1
 @Bomadics: that's what I was pointing out but, he seems not able to understand/take a hint; a remarcable thing in its own, if you think about it, that goes head to head with his self-appointed brilliance.
  • 1 1
 @eugenux: Oh yes, you'll never get through to him, but he is fun to toy with as his face gets redder and redder with anger!
  • 1 5
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 28, 2022 at 9:15) (Below Threshold)
 @Bomadics: Congratulations on discovering Google and searching song lyrics... Now, can you quote where I said the subject of a song written 50 years ago was my hero?

Doesn't it get hard to breath with your head that far up your own ass?
  • 1 5
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 28, 2022 at 9:16) (Below Threshold)
 @Bomadics: Aww... look at you, you still think that anyone in this world cares enough about your existence that you can generate an emotional response! That's really an impressive level of commitment to fantasy.
  • 1 0
 @badbadleroybrown: What did you do cut and paste that reply, you have said that almost exact attempt at at response 5 or 6 times now, c'mon dude, gimme something I can sink my teeth into!

Stop caring and responding, I dare you!
  • 1 4
 @Bomadics: Did that sound clever, in your head before you typed it, or are you just fully committed to looking stupid now?

i DaRe YoU tO sToP CaRiNg AnD ReSpOnDiNg!!!
  • 2 0
 @badbadleroybrown: Nope not gonna stop, too much fun, you say you don't care, prove it!
  • 1 4
 @Bomadics: That you think me repeatedly telling you that you're an uneducated joke that I don't care about means I care really calls into question the quality of all the relationships in your life... Man, what a sad existence you must lead that what you see here translates to "caring" in your mind. It certainly explains a lot though.
  • 2 1
 @badbadleroybrown: you took his name, because you thought he was a bad ass, and my parents had that album I knew that song before you were born.
  • 1 1
 @badbadleroybrown: stop posting then, you're just confirming how much you really do care!
  • 3 1
 @badbadleroybrown:

Although you are a super-annoying Conservatard, I didn't narc on you for your childish and sometimes offensive name-calling. Not being able to use all the spicier terms that rattle around in your skull must really pucker up your Freedom Hole.....
  • 1 3
 @Bomadics: nah... there's actually a story behind it and it's been a nickname since I was in high school. But it's funny seeing just how much your little brain struggles to come up with clever clapbacks that that's where you went.
  • 1 4
 @suspended-flesh: aww, are you offended... do you need a safe space? lol

Imagine thinking "conservatard" was an insult these days... with the damage the left has done, globally, it's flattering that I'm immediately identifiable as strongly conservative.
  • 1 0
 @badbadleroybrown:hey whatever excuse you want to use is up to you, your childhood friends obviously thought very little of you too!

I don't think you understand, nothing you post on this website matters, nothing any of us entitled mountain bikers post here matters. If you want to educate people on economics, or politics, go to an website about economics or politics.
  • 1 3
 @Bomadics: yeah... I'm sure you're right, that's why we've kept in touch for 30+ years. lol

Don't you get tired of being wrong? It's really gotta suck to run your mouth as much as you do and not even accidentally get anything right.
  • 2 1
 @badbadleroybrown: there he goes emojis again, big words are too hard!
  • 2 1
 @badbadleroybrown: the only reason you have to tell us how smart and cool you are, is because deep down you know it's not true. Keep posting you are making yourself look like exactly who you are, I just have to keep you talking as you continue to spew hate and childish name calling.
  • 3 1
 @badbadleroybrown:

You're a fairly clever bot, but #youcantwin
  • 2 4
 @Bomadics: aww, now you're moving on to crying about spewing hate lol

You couldn't be a more banal liberal if you tried.

Come on, tell us some more about how the resounding success of capitalism hurts you, unless you're late for work as a Walmart greeter.
  • 1 4
 @suspended-flesh: I won at birth kid... USA born and raised, it's all just victory laps accumulating prizes from there.
  • 4 2
 @badbadleroybrown: ha I knew you were the type to buy into the propaganda of politics, lemming! And the USA is about to become a third world country, enjoy your time in hell dude!
  • 2 4
 @Bomadics: lol You've been nonstop political sookery since this post went up and now you want to try and act like you're above it lol

The world will burn before the US turns into a third world country, and no matter what happens to the US your shitty little country will always be even worse off. Just sit back and hope Truday doesn't f*ck things up too badly and you get to keep riding our coattails.
  • 2 1
 @badbadleroybrown: Dude politics is meant to distract you, and when you are sitting in your mudhole wishing you had food, remember this conversation.

You will never believe what is going to happen to you, even once it has, same thing is goin to happen to my country, just on a smaller scale. Say goodbye to that pool in your backyard and hello to your Chinese masters.

The US cannot manufacture anything worthwhile any more, China does all the heavy lifting in that department, your military is a joke, and Russia can make fertilizer during a world wide shortage, but the US can't. The US is much like your own President, can't wipe it's own ass even with help.

Oh yes and it is spelled Trudeau, or are you going to blame that on auto correct too?
  • 1 3
 @Bomadics: Holy shit man... that was an impressive density of ignorance, even for you. Politics is only a distraction to folks like you who are too stupid to understand them and rely instead on propagandist media to tell you what to think. You might live in fear a Chinese boogieman but I sure as f*ck don't, I'm just not that stupid. The US can manufacture literally anything we need and China can barely even feed its population with less than 0.1 hectare of arable land per person.

Honestly, not that you had any credibility to lose but, if you had... you'd have lost it all suggesting the US military is a joke, particularly while sitting in Canada of all places lol You've obviously never served or even worked alongside military anywhere because that's a level of ignorance that only a shitheaded liberal civvy could ever hope to have.

And I know how it's spelled, but Trudy doesn't deserve the extra keystrokes.
  • 3 1
 @badbadleroybrown: Dude, you are so gullible, go check the US military readiness numbers, under Regan the US Navy had over 500 ships, now you are under 300, your F35 numbers for combat readiness is under 70%, and let's not even talk about how far behind your military is on hypersonic weapons.

US politics is useless, your country is run by un-elected bankers, you can't make computer chips in the US, your largest fertilizer plant just blew up, you produce less oil than you use, and your overall manufacturing capabilities are down 90%o over the last 50 years. Wake up dude, your landlord sold you out, you just have not been evicted yet!

Did you know about 80 to 90% of pharmaceutical drugs used int he US are made in China? Do you ever read anything other than your own words on Pinkbike, no you probably get your info from FOX news.
  • 1 2
 @Bomadics: So are you a military expert? I’m aware of the public information but you must have a special security clearance to access the true US military readiness!
  • 1 4
 @Bomadics: lol lol lol

Holy shit, dude is there anything you're actually knowledgeable on or are you just blindingly stupid in every aspect of life? Tell us some more military info you picked up from leftist propaganda networks that has no anchor in reality... this is good shit!

The largest fertilizer plant in the US isn't even in the same state as the one that blew up and that's a non-event in terms of US capacity... our military could easily hold off any five nations trying to invade... we produce less oil by choice (thanks to shithead lefties like you) but could easily ramp up domestic production as needed and we also have sufficient strategic reserves for that to be a non-issue, and us outsourcing manufacturing and the pollution to overseas shitholes like China isn't reflection of manufacturing capability, just manufacturing policy today, and only about 2% of all US pharmaceuticals are imported from China.
  • 2 5
 @rivercitycycles: He doesn't have a clue wtf he's talking about... he's referring to the reports that had the leftist media frothing a year or so ago where the initial run of F35A's was due for their first engine overhaul and readiness dipped from 76% to 68.8%, it's a non-issue and relying upon that to try and claim the "military is a joke" is comically idiotic.
  • 2 2
 @badbadleroybrown: Go read, educated yourself, but it's no difference to me, you can't se what's coming and never will. Have a nice life dude, I am outta here, you won't hear from me again, you have your head buried in the sand.
  • 2 3
 @Bomadics: ok lil guy, good luck with that head injury.
  • 1 1
 @badbadleroybrown: uuu...I told you, you're really, really funny!, unfortunately(for you), so full of organic fertilizer, you could help grow crops on half of your dvmbfveckistan. #freeeeedooooom

joking aside, the real problem with you is the same as when facing a death of a friend or a relative.. it is not hard for him, it is hard for the others..., and it is the same when one is stu.pid; I know you don't realize but, you've become a little tedious. Very hard it isn't... but, it is less fun than it used to be.
  • 2 3
 @eugenux: So... we add agriculture and fertilization to the long list of things you know nothing about I see. And your best clapback was a stolen effort from a tired old meme.

You have yet to offer a single relevant or cogent perspective, but you want to talk about being stupid... I suppose I'll have to defer to your expertise in that regard, I certainly don't have your lifetime of experience being stupid or how it impacts those around me. I'm sure it has been very hard on those around you, it's bad enough on the rest of us just trying to read your broken English.
  • 4 2
 @badbadleroybrown: I was part of the design team on the F22 and F35……..many years ago. Not going to get into the details but I agree he’s just a parrot.
  • 2 0
 @badbadleroybrown: please address me in your 2rd forreign language you can proficiently use, at least, at a medium lvl, and then and only then you can comment about my syntax.
For the rest of.. basically all.. you're a effin' dvmb pr.ick!(and I never said I invented that meme.. but, it does not mean I can't use it on little dummies like you)
  • 2 0
 @rivercitycycles: congraz for taking part in such an awesome project. some of us would sell their souls to be involved in a such lvl of technical awesomeness.

but we all know the truth... x32 was the better jet. Politics won and now f35 is in use.
  • 1 0
 @badbadleroybrown:

It says *2rd*..; originally, I meant to say 3rd but, let's not get ahead of ourselves. 2nd is sufficient for a dummy like you.
  • 1 4
 @eugenux: lmao... man, it just be tough to try that hard and still fail. The difference between you and me is that I'm intelligent though to at least know what I don't know... but good luck with running your mouth in your 2rd or 3st languages and looking stupid, I'm sure it'll do you well.

And no, the x32 was not the better jet... it was the cheaper jet.
  • 1 3
 @badbadleroybrown: in a modern world, only knowing how to order beer and fries in spanish makes you less intelligent than the average european middle-schooler; then again, you act like one so, please, entertain us some more!

and no, it wasn't. In fact, due do dummies like you in your dod, you have an uber-expensive underperforming plane in service. What should have happened did not so, as a typical dummies do, your dod choose 1 (uber expensive)tool for every job instead of having specialized tools for each type of job. Basically, it should have been two briefs.. and for ctol, the x32 was the better jet(and nicer to look at).
  • 2 3
 @eugenux: Oh, I can do a lot more than order papas and beer in Spanish but again, this is about you not even being smart enough to know what you don't know... like economics and US politics, and apparently strike fighter design bids.

The X32 was underpowered and would struggle CTOL or STOVL with a full loadout, employed an antiquated direct-lift thrust vectoring system that was prone to prop stalls, and was unable to meet the JSF's aerodynamic requirements for the Navy's STOVL variant... failing to meet one of the core requirements of the entire JSF program. And the entire premise of the program was to combine the CALF and JAST projects and design a singular platform to handle multiple roles you moron. If we need a CTOL fighter, we have the F22 which is still far superior to either platform, and anything any other country can field. And while neither jet is a great looker, the X32 was definitely the uglier of the two.

Come on buddy, keep talking... eventually you'll have to get something right just by pure statistical chance.
  • 1 3
 @badbadleroybrown:

f22 is not what you think it is and the x35 platform is dumb af with little possibility in the way of evolving. Of course, it had better stovl capabilities and..so what?, in the end, it got the x32 avionics and the running costs are so high I bet the DoD wished they never contracted the damn thing in the first place. If I would run a project that would require 50% increase in capital in the first stages of deployment, you can bet your dummy brain that I would have so many boots deep up my a$$, I wouldn't be able to walk normal for months.
This clarifies to me the way you manage to acquire wealth and I can bet your dropped balls you did it just before, or right after(as a consequence), 2008. That's why the arrogance.. you, basically, cheat people for their money and, in your weak imagination, you felt like that was something to be proud of, right buddy?, #teamyou!, #yougogirl!

and also, jets are made to fly, not to look good ij a fvecking hangar. In flight, the x32 was gorgeous.

p.s. infinite monkey theorem..., that's the best you could do?, my G.O.D.. and you were accusing me of running old jokes.
  • 2 3
 @eugenux: Hey look at you, you finally got something right... your posts totally are just infinite monkey theorem, except you continue to defy the odds and avoid saying anything intelligent.


As for where I acquired my wealth... it's a consistency thing, like most things in life. I average 23% return annually over the last 16 years, and I'm up 52% over the last twelve months. But, I've never cheated anyone out of anything and that you would even suggest investment appreciation involves cheating anyone only highlights how incredibly stupid you are, irrespective of whether we're talking 2008 or 2022. But yeah, I'm proud as f*ck of my success... and I have no sympathy for incompetent, ignorant, poors like yourself who can't understand economics or manage to build anything for yourself.

Now I can't contradict your extensive personal experience with boots in your ass so I'll defer to you there but, as far as the X32 goes... it would have met with even greater overruns and delays than the F35 given that it would have been even more difficult to build sensor integration as specified into the more antiquated systems of the 32 vs the 35. Similarly, readiness would be worse off since the underpowered and failure prone engines would have been more heavily taxed on each flight and required even more service... but all that really isn't relevant since the end result is that it was an entrant that simply did not meet the requirements. I'm sure that you're big on failing to meet the basic specifications of the job you were hired to do; failures like you generally fail in multiple areas after all. But, back here in the real world where results matter, if you don't meet the requirements then you don't get the job. The 32 was a low budget pig with outdated tech, missing on key requirements, and absolutely no advantage over the 35... when you approach a cutting edge project with the same direct-lift thrust vectoring you've been pushing since the 1960's then you've already failed to understand the assignment.

Now... while it's fun watching you continually demonstrate deep ignorance on a variety of topics, at least put some effort into it if you're gonna keep going. You're so caught up in talking about putting things in your ass and thinking about my balls that you're not even offering anything worth debating about anymore.
  • 1 3
 @badbadleroybrown:

23% on the clock YoY, my G.O.D., you're the fvecking genius this worlds needs to rise up from mud to sheer brilliance... ahahaha. To bad no one knows about you or else, we would all be saved.
Do note that I said nothing about efficiency rate of your investments as I don't care about them no, I just said you cheat/deceive people in order to get advantages for yourself.. as your profile screams that from a mile away.
And I don't give a fveck about your dumb speculation on what might have happened vs what, in fact, actually happened. #goyouyourself!
bye bye dummy!
  • 1 3
 @eugenux: I would warn any one with investments to liquidate them immediately, the stock market is not based on reality anymore, it is shored up by the Fed dumping trillions into it, so profits are taken from the taxpayers and those profits has been outrageous over the last year as the top 1% take their last big gulp of the free money.

Bonds are a gong show and about to collapse worldwide, I know this other gentleman with whom you are corresponding will come in raging about this and that and how dumb I am, all meaningless prattle as you can all see by his past posts, all fluff and no stuff. If you are into stock and bonds, you have drank the Kool Aid, or are in on the con.

The people that don't see the changes coming will be the ones most shocked. The ones that feel they are the most intelligent will never question a system that they feel rewards(bribes) them, they believe their success is because they are smart, but in reality is because they are obedient to the system.
  • 1 2
 @Bomadics: yeah man, I don't think that will happen. These stories with the rich and the poor, I don't want to go there as they are not my thing.
This guy is an @$$hole and that's why I keep poking him but those are two different things.
  • 2 3
 @eugenux: No dumbass, you said something about me making all my gains in or immediately after the 2008 crash... to which I replied, no I actually average 23% a year so all my gains had nothing to do with 2008. Jesus man, I know you're stupid but at least try to keep your own shit straight... bad enough I have to explain everything else to you, I shouldn't need to explain the dumb shit you say back to you.

You're the only one speculating on what might have happened... the fact is that the 32 failed to meet design requirements so it failed. Period, full stop. Your idiotic nonsense about how it would have been better isn't anchored in reality, like most of the dumb shit you believe.
  • 2 3
 @Bomadics: That was a terrific breakdown of why you're a clueless poor... thanks for sharing so much about how little you understand the stock market and how angry you are that you're not successful. You sound like an adolescent raging about how much he hates a game just because he sucks at it, only in this case the game is life and you're too old to be so bad at it so you should be ashamed.
  • 1 2
 @badbadleroybrown:
the evidence confirms that f35 is a fvecking failure and, from your posts, we can all see that you are an @$$hole thus, I've been right all along on both accounts.
  • 2 3
 @eugenux: It was a bad idea from the start, and the idea of a joint service fighter among allied nations is idiotic... as is the idea that you can replace two distinctly different aircraft like the A10 and the F18 with a single airframe... but the evidence confirms that the X32 would've been even worse, you're just too stupid to comprehend obvious reality, which is really the only thing you've proven. As for being right, you have yet to be right about anything, all you've done is jump from one strawman argument to the next offering up ever increasingly retarded commentary about shit you don't even begin to understand. But please, keep crying, it's always fun watching unintelligent poors rant and rave about shit beyond their comprehension.
  • 3 1
 @eugenux: I wouldn’t call the F35 program a failure. Making that statement tells me you have been watching to much History channel or “How it’s Made” Every program of this size and complexity has challenges. There was so much new technology on both the F22 and F35 programs that they take decades to perfect.

US, France, UK and maybe Germany lead the world is aerospace design. The rest of the world just steals the intellectual data…..cough cough China
  • 2 3
 @rivercitycycles: I think it's fair to call it a failure, inasmuch as it failed to meet its goals... a lot of good things came out of it but as far as a cost effective multi-role platform that could be deployed for a range of mission objectives covering just about everything short of a full bomber profile, it's failed. Brown hit on this a year or two ago when he was discussing limiting usage to maintain availability; instead of being a highly versatile multi-role craft, it's become a high-end mission specific aircraft.
  • 3 2
 @badbadleroybrown: stopping by to say hi, and to remind myself how f*cking retarded you are
  • 2 3
 @ace9: Tell me more about how you're an economically illiterate jackass with such a sad life that I live rent free in your head... no really, I give a shit.
  • 3 2
 @ace9: I spat out my coffee lol
  • 1 2
 @badbadleroybrown: hahahah economically illiterate.. too funny... i had to revisit the whole darn schpeel here to figure out why we were here.. and the original reply, Scott T guy, is nail on the head.

i'll be back when inflation hits 13% to call you a f*cking retard again, and again, and again Smile
  • 2 0
 @ace9: It already hit 15% if you use the same formula as back in the early 80's, they changed the way they calculate inflation something like 14 times since then.
  • 1 1
 @ace9: it's well over 13% at this point you f*cking idiot... good to know you're as bad at math as you are at the rest of life though, you economically illiterate joke.

PS - Not a goddamn thing about capitalism has caused this inflation so, I'm still right and you're still a moron. Thanks for stopping by to share.
  • 1 1
 @Bomadics: they do the same with unemployment... gotta cover up their failures by changing the way they calculate the numbers.
  • 204 4
 Why did Mr Crabs build a second Krusty Krabs adjacent to the original Krusty Krabs? ....Money.

Why are bike companies selling out to larger corporations? ....Money.

Why does YT not have a Worlds racing team this year? .....Money.

Why did Pinkbike sell out to Outsider? .....Money.
  • 18 5
 This should be one of 22 comments of 2022. Make it happen.
  • 19 2
 I thought these were hip hop lyrics for a sec
  • 46 1
 Why did my wife leave me for another man? ....Money.
  • 15 4
 @tinbikeman: why don't a buy Sworks E29?.... No money
  • 2 0
 @stainerdome: @tinbikeman: yea I was actually thinking country song
  • 10 0
 No…She left cuz u had krusty krabs
  • 1 0
 "Cash is King" There's a F1 reference for Levy and Henry.
  • 3 1
 M.O.N.E.Y. Why is there still a global pandemic and fake news?
  • 3 1
 @TW80: pretty much every major news channel is sponsored by big pharma....... but nothing to see here folks! Just honest trust worthy cash incentivized doctors, anchors, and politicians. totally on the level.....
  • 2 0
 Money - if you don't have it you want it. If someone has more than you - they are scourges of the Earth and should give there money to all those without money.
  • 82 1
 Why are fun, rowdy websites being bought by corporations and turned into bland melba toast.
  • 63 4
 I used to work on Wall Street doing due diligence for M&A. The real answer is that it's easy money. PE companies are the best in the biz at eliminating redundancies and optimizing costs. Bike companies (from what I've seen) are generally run terribly and are super easy targets for PE companies to turn a quick buck while expending minimal effort from first year VP's, associates and a couple interns. Easiest way to get from VP to SVP is to enter a new industry and bring some fast cash into the fund.

I don't think it's generally a bad signal and would in fact consider myself "bullish" (if you will) on the trend. If the industry can learn to start optimizing costs and processes, we should see those outputs on the consumer side in the form of cheaper bikes, shorter supply times, and bigger R&D investment.
  • 3 1
 Agree, QE and PE. Any concern on quality suffering? Also, it feels like efficiencies would be harder to find in the bike industry considering the reliance of a fragmented component industry required just to build a bicycle and get it to market.
  • 17 4
 This should be the top comment, not some half-truth nonsense the other dude posted. Bike companies are still mostly run by bros...lots of upside for good operators.
  • 2 2
 Thanks for the insight. Sounds hopeful, I hope you're right.
  • 33 7
 @fullendurbro We're literally living in the age of setting up full suspension downhill bikes with computer diagnostics strapped to the frames and multi million wind channels to optimize drag and you're acting as if the bike industry was some stone age relict that needed overpaid MBA desk jockeys to improve productivity. Ridiculous.
The money has joined this industry over a decade ago.
But the bike industry was one of the fastest growing industries during the so-called pandemic, that's why some turbo capitalist vulture funds are highly interested in buying it up to milk it to death.
Imagine expecting cheaper bikes from this... lmao
  • 15 2
 @ElDebarge: If you zoom out and look at your comment from a macro point of view, you just pointed out a huge inefficiency that can be solved by capital investment. If I had the stamina to stick it out on wall street and I was one of these ambitious VP's trying to get an SVP title, I would buy up a bike company, show the partners it was profitable, and then start acquiring small component manufacturers so that I could control the whole supply chain and start chipping down prices.

If Pon Holdings (GT buyer), Carlyle, etc. snatched up MRP, Box Components, and some small biz tire company, they could own the entire process of building a more than capable bike for less than $200M and then use their weight to drive supplier's pricing off a cliff so that it costs 35% less to build a whole bike and get it out the door.

So I'll agree that efficiencies are challenging to solve for existing bike companies when we're talking about $200m investments, but an amount like that is a rounding error for Carlyle.
  • 4 1
 @MikeyMT: "good operators" aka cheapen and simplifiers.
  • 1 1
 @radrider: In some cases, sure.
  • 11 0
 @fullendurbro: One problem. How much do you want to bet consumers NEVER see that 35% reduction in cost to produce?

It all comes back to greed. Out.
  • 1 3
 @mybaben: Who is that a problem for? Not the bike company, the parent company, nor the consumer still willing to pay. Savings on operations IN THEORY will lead to investment in other areas and lead to better products. This is like the Big-S going direct thread...'i hate the way Big-S runs their business, but I love their products' lol.
  • 7 0
 They may be good at "eliminating redundancies and optimizing costs" but if that doesn't work, and about 50% of the time it doesn't, they are happy to load the companies up with debt and pay themselves fat dividends and management fees with the final step being RE sell offs, R&D cuts, outsourcing, and other asset-lite strategies.
  • 8 1
 Your view is very, very optimistic. The oil crisis led to a boom in cycling, consolidation, then a crash. The advent of mountain biking led to a boom in cycling, then a crash. That's the likely scenario again. A lot of smaller brands get bought out or beaten out of the market, then half the bike shops in the US fail in a year with all the collateral damage that causes.

PE companies are staffed by people who are good at making money. That means they don't know or care how a product is made or who the end user is. They'll leverage a brand for money, split up a brand for money, sell a brand for money. What they won't do is "eliminate redundancies and reduce costs", unless you mean putting single ply TP in all the bathrooms, What they will do is kill an industry, then glut themselves on the carcass of that industry like the vultures they are.

What they won't do is look at the long term health of any company on a 10-15 year timespan.
  • 4 1
 @wyorider: Well said. Watching the brainwashed pro-capitalists is no different than the brainwashed people on both sides of the covid vax debate, or the partisan politics debate. People are totally polarized with no ability to think objectively, nuanced, or admit the negative global and societal consequences of that system.
  • 3 0
 @mazze: well, according to "the great reset," we'll soon all own nothing. So it is possible the people making decisions to buy bike companies are doing so based on information we only hear whispers of.
We all like to think we're "in the know," but we're not.
  • 2 0
 @fullendurbro: Giant already kind of does that. But even they don't buy a groupset manufacturer because the industry is too fragmented. If you merge into SRAM, SRAM instantly loses all of their customers. That's why SRAM and Shimano don't make frames or market complete bicycles.

Besides, if you really wanted to you could just contact a Taiwanese manufacturer and brand your own components. State Bicycle Co does that with their 1x11 groupset and they aren't setting the world on fire.
  • 1 4
 @mazze: you realise you're mixing engineering with management, right?
  • 3 0
 worked for Boeing.. bike companies can MAX profits by at least 73.7% Wink

PE companies are just parasites BTW
  • 1 1
 @wyorider: except most PE funds operate on a 10 year horizon…lol
  • 62 4
 With all of the new riders coming into the sport who have previous backgrounds in BMX, it's no wonder the sport is growing.
  • 18 0
 bmx background you say...
  • 6 1
 Imagine when they will come with an MTB background!
*Mind=Blown*
  • 13 2
 Can someone point me to the origin of BMX background jokes on Pinkbike?
  • 16 0
 @calmWAKI: Pinkbike Academy Season 2 EP 6
  • 5 0
 @threesixtykickflip: No wonder the joke went over my head
  • 6 1
 @boozed: it is a thing. The funniest bit is that people who mention their BMX background tend to clash with folks who say they have moto background.
  • 22 0
 TL;DR: Money.
  • 14 1
 Capitalism relies on scale as a method of reducing overhead. It’s why Outside has been on a shopping spree. It’s why the bike industry has had so many consolidations.

Unfortunately, the goal of a successful business in a capitalism system is profit first and foremost. As bike comps are gobbled up by large holding companies, they’ll quickly show to be a drag on the overall bottom line.

For niche markets like specialty sporting goods, consolidation is seldom good for the industry or the consumer.

Or the reader.
  • 17 0
 Money for shareholders.
  • 21 6
 GREEEED.. THATS ALL IT IS. THATS WHY THEY ARE PUSHING OUT EBIKES AS A NEW NORM THEY WANT YOU FAT AND DUMB.
  • 3 3
 I think probably from a business perspective that COMES DOWN TO DEMAMD
  • 3 1
 Your first point was accurate. Your second point was ignorant. Ebikes are being pushed out because there is a huge market for them and people are buying them. Got nothing to do with wanting people to be "fat and dumb."
  • 30 19
 Late-stage capitalism at work and this is impacting all industries. The winners who thrived during the pandemic are consolidating industries that will reduce competition and drive shareholder value.
  • 19 10
 late-stage capitalism isn't a thing. The Western European countries and the USA have never had a more centralized, command economy than they do now.
  • 19 2
 I always get confused when people say "late stage capitalism." Late stage implies the economic system is about to change into something else. I don't see that happening.
  • 14 6
 @HB208: but it makes capitalism sound like a cancer, which is slimy yet satisfying
  • 17 16
 @Jimmy0: The is that capitalism is the greatest vehicle for decentralizing power, improving the quality of life for all people, etc. Its demonizing the economic system responsible for eradication of global poverty over the last 60 years.
  • 9 2
 @Jimmy0: I have issues with how the economic system is captured by the ultra wealthy. There are legitimate grievances to be had. I just don't think we are in the "late stage", meaning we go to an entirely different system. I could see reform happening, but that's not changing systems.
  • 8 3
 The imminent demise of capitalism has been touted for 150 years. It’s getting into l cults predicting Jesus’ return based on planetary alignment territory at this point.
  • 12 9
 @HB208: Man, I tell ya... if you think the disparity in economic benefit between the poor and the wealthy is bad in capitalism, you should see how it's worked in the other economic systems humanity has tried. lol
  • 2 0
 @HB208: True, but I'm thinking people use that phrase to just mean it's been around for a good long while now.
  • 8 4
 @hamncheez: Are you reading a fantasy novel or something?
  • 8 8
 @mybaben: It's a fantasy novel called "World History"... you should check it out sometime, it pretty well crushes your evil capitalism narrative though so proceed with caution, you may incur some emotional damage when the truth hits you.
  • 4 4
 @mybaben: hes just always spouting his genius
  • 8 7
 @badbadleroybrown: who are you clown man? You probably got the tiniest little boner from all the bullshit trolling you do huh?
  • 5 2
 @mybaben: You’ve got it backwards. Critiques of capitalism invariably compare it to an idealized fantasy. But if you compare it to real system that actually existed it starts looking pretty damn good.
  • 2 10
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 22, 2022 at 15:03) (Below Threshold)
 @pargolf8: If you want dick pics, just ask cupcake... I'm not shy.

But please, tell me more about how your financial failings and poor understanding of basic economics isn't your fault.
  • 7 3
 @badbadleroybrown: only and ass hat would flex about their wealth on a bullshit website. Cheers to you though for whatever it is you’re so proud of accomplishing
  • 4 2
 @badbadleroybrown: You must be part of the 1%....
  • 3 5
 @Blackhat: And the proponents and apologists of capitalism never admit the global and societal consequences of that system.
  • 9 10
 @mybaben: I readily admit to the consequences of capitalism.... unprecedented growth, increased prosperity, and decreased poverty chief among them.
  • 8 3
 @mybaben: So you’re ceding the point about fantasy and changing the subject? Good to know.

Anyway, there are countless people who recognize capitalism as the best system we have who still seek to mitigate the negative impacts. But, when you lead by claiming capitalism is f*cked and we need to scrap the whole thing you’re going to run into a lot of people who think you’re the raving lunatic you are.

Especially when your grand example of capitalism’s evil is a bike company being bought by another company.
  • 5 11
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 22, 2022 at 16:04) (Below Threshold)
 @mybaben: nah... more like the 6% or so.

But my personal position doesn't change the factual reality that capitalism is, by far, the most effective economic system humanity has invented and one that benefits the overwhelming majority of people... both directly and indirectly.

You don't have to like it... shit, you don't even have to accept it... but those are the facts irrespective of your personal failings or beliefs.
  • 5 3
 @hamncheez: Go ask a sweat shop worker if they are happy about capitalism eradicating global poverty. I am no communist or anything but it is ridiculous to imply that there are no victims of capitalism.
  • 8 6
 @zanda23: Unless someone is rounding up those sweatshop workers at gunpoint they are making the choice to participate in capitalism. The worst, grossest part of capitalism. If millions of people are actively choosing to participate in the very worst a system has to offer, how bad must the alternative be?
  • 4 2
 @Blackhat: Because farming that previously maintained peoples lifestyles around the globe is getting undercut by industrial agriculture giving them no other choice? It is cognitive dissonance to deny that people in other parts of the world are not victimized by the west under the capitalist system. Neocolonialism is a phrase that exists for a reason.
  • 5 1
 @mybaben: Capitalism is great, but what we reference today as capitalism, isn't. The levels and complexity of government intervention and involvement is not pure capitalism.
It's a distinction that matters.
  • 3 2
 @sonuvagun: The only time we have seen pure capitalism without regulation was the industrial revolution and that time was an absolute dogshit time to be anyone but Ebeneezer Scrooge, it turns out you need to have laws to stop capitalists from effectively enslaving children in workhouses, putting their workers lives at constant risk or completely destroying the planet or the capitalists will choose to do those things and far worse in a heartbeat if they can see a profit in it.

The fact that they still are even with the regulation we do have should tell you not that the regulations are too severe but that they are desperately inadequate.
  • 3 1
 @Patrick9-32: I'm not disagreeing with you, but in some way it sounds like you're ignoring or excusing how some regulations allow for very dubious processes and practices to go on.

I guess what I'm saying is people with a high concentration of wealth seem to find ways to receive exceptional treatment under the guise of regulations.

If I read you wrong, well it wouldn't be the first or last thing today I'm wrong about.
  • 3 1
 @zanda23: "Neocolonialism" is not a scientific or economic term, its an activist term.

We like to glorify sustenance farming, but it sucks. It really really sucks. "Competition from corporate agriculture" has done nothing to make that worse. If anything the diffusion of Western technology has improved things for 3rd world agriculturalists.


If you life a rural life in a 3rd world country your #1 goal is to move to the city and get a factory (sweatshop) job. In the country girls are illiterate and controlled by their male family members. In the city at a factory job they can get an education, they can own things (like a bike or scooter) and live on their own. Factory jobs pay dramatically more than farming, and are an important step in a 3rd world economy maturing into a post-industrial economy like ours. People fight for these jobs.

@Patrick9-32 I agree, we saw something closer to pure capitalism during the industrial revolution, and during that time we saw the greatest rise in the standard of living of the common man than at anytime in history. In a single generation, the infant mortality rate plummeted. Before industrialization, you had a 50% chance of dying before you were 18. After it dropped to less than 10%. Nutrition amongst the poorest skyrocketed. Increased worker productivity from industrialization helped end slavery for the first time in human history. Literacy rates skyrocketed. The list of improvements to humanity from the Industrial Revolution fills volumes of books.
  • 3 2
 @hamncheez: You seem pretty level-headed, so take a look at some of those 3rd world countries. How they "attained" that status might surprise you, and should anger you.
We're certainly no anti-capitalists, but we should be able to objectively look at the faults, shortcomings, and outright wrongs of a given system.
  • 3 2
 @sonuvagun: You are correct. As Prof Chomsky has stated for years, there is capitalism (in theory) and there is EXISTING capitalism. Existing capitalism is a cancer based on insatiable greed, and it has nothing to do with actual capitalist theory, because of what you point out. There is no such thing as "the free market". It is massively manipulated and interfered with on every level, by the governments in the rich developed countries.
  • 2 4
 @mybaben: Is it physically painful to be that stupid?

Literally nothing about capitalism is "based on insatiable greed" and the extent to which greed drives capitalism is less than in any other system.
  • 4 2
 @badbadleroybrown: I'll reference another idea from Chomsky since it applies to you personally.

The bourgeoisie intelligencia need to be even more brainwashed in American society, so they will prop up and support the system created by the 1% ruling class.

That means you homes.
  • 1 6
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 23, 2022 at 12:39) (Below Threshold)
 @mybaben: I get it "homes"... you're a f*cking moron who doesn't have an independent thought or opinion so you can only share quotes from a geriatric socialist who shares your idiotic beliefs... you really don't need to try so hard to convince me "homes". Hate to break it to you though, that's not a reflection upon me so much as it is upon you. I get it though, you're old and you've failed at life and see so many better men, younger men even, doing so much better than you... it's got to be tough for you to accept that you failed instead of just pretending the system failed you. But your sookery doesn't represent reality.
  • 5 0
 @badbadleroybrown: I agree with your point, but when you hurl insults your point can't be well received.
  • 3 3
 @hamncheez: So my multiple college professors who used the term neocolonialism were just out to lunch then? One point; subsistence farming =/= small farms. In the past small farms could turn a profit. And not all would agree that subsistence farming sucks. A specific example is that indigenous communities in mexico who make maize(a culturally important food.) In the past it was a biodiverse family of corn that had many local flavors and was quite important. With industrial agriculture these different strains of corn are getting undercut by generic corn and many complain that it is removing their culture. I'm not saying that there aren't pros and cons to each system. But there is often little choice in the matter. Your idealistic point of view on urbanizing is just that. A huge number of jobs are dead end jobs that you can't make it our of. And yes it would be ideal to transform their countries economies to a become modern first world economies. But in our global economy, home grown companies are often no match for the power of bigger companies from the West. These companies off load their labor to developing nations and will use their power to exploit natural resources from these countries leaving them worse off (besides a few elites who get cuts) and setting them back in "turning their economy modern." In fact throughout history there have been many examples of countries trying to leap forward and being stopped by the capitalist west who wanted to keep them in their place (see the overthrough of Mosaddegh in Iran in 1953). All in all, You are sticking your head in the sand if you don't think there are victims of capitalism across the world. But if you don't want to face difficult truths I won't stop you from your comfortable western views of the world.
  • 1 0
 PINKBIKE IS AN IMAGINARY KINGDOM WHERE OUTSIDE+ IS YOUR MASTER.
  • 2 2
 @zanda23: It's okay mate, you can't teach people. Most of our country doesn't even know what the global south is, or our relationship to those developing nations. They never stop to wonder why the third world is still the third world even after 200+ years of the industrial revolution. They think capitalism is some sort of "level playing field", and have no idea that the third world, even in the 21st century, is the result of western imperialism.
  • 5 0
 @mybaben: I agree with some of what you boys are on about, but not all of it.
Small farms vs subsistence farms.
Existing capitalism vs fairytale capitalism.
The major problem with capitalism today is the amount of government involvement that has ensured anything but a level playing field. Post WW2 west Germany had a good system of capitalism (not to be confused with the Marshall plan).
But let's be fair and say there are victims of EVERY economic system. Let's agree that communism is a cancer and NOT the solution for the common man.
  • 5 1
 @zanda23: Dude I grew up on a farm and I have a degree in economics. Neocolonialism is used by professors in activist degrees that don't use science and evidence to come to their conclusions. Those indigenous farms in Mexico had very low literacy rates, no access to Western medicine, high infant mortality, low protein intake in their diets, and little variety in their food. 90% of those people, if offered a factory job, would take it. You say "a huge number of jobs are dead end jobs", which is right, but agricultural jobs are the most dead end of any of them. They don't require you to be literate, so they don't increase your literacy. If you don't own any land (most don't) then you are even worse off. You are completely trapped on someone else's land, and your children will be too unless you can get a factory job.

Can you name a single example of somewhere that a Western company "off load their labor to developing nations... leaving them worse off "? If you look at the vast majorities of cases, like Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam since Doi Moi in the 80s, foreign investment has dramatically increased the standard of living for the poorest. The one place where you are probably 100% right is De Beers Diamonds; that company's run by Satan himself. But it is the exception, not the rule.

The West does prevent development of 3rd world countries, yes, but its the Western Governments who do this. Free markets, trade, and open exchange didn't overthrow Iran, it was the CIA and Western governments. Government intervention is the antithesis of capitalism.
  • 2 1
 @mybaben: Dude, it took 200 years for the West to industrialize. In 1800, the infant mortality rate was 462 per 1,000 births in the USA. Thats nearly 50%. I have 4 kids, and if I lived back then half my kids would be dead already. Roughly around 1820 the USA began to industrialize, and it look until 1995 for infant mortality to drop to 10 per 1,000 births.

South Korea began to industrialize after WWII, so roughly 1950 (there isn't good data from before that year anyways). Their infant mortality then was 197 deaths per 1,000 births. Thats 20%. It took them until 1997 to reach 10 deaths per 1,000 births. If we look at the USA, it took 90 years (1905) to get from ~200 deaths to 10 deaths per 1,000 births. It took South Korea half as long. Now they have fewer deaths per 1,000. Why?

South Korea was opened to Western Capitalism is why. The same story can be found in Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam after 1984, American Samoa, Hong Kong, Venezuela (until Hugo Chavez & the CIA ruined their economy), etc. It took the West 200 years to industrialize, and once foreign economies opened up to the West the diffusion of Capital and technology caused these countries to industrialize three times as fast. None of these countries are perfect, in fact some are quite terrible. Many of them were "opened" to the West not by trade but by conquest. That really, really, sucks, but its better than the alternative.

Most countries that haven't industrialized yet are still poor for three main reasons: 1. Western governments prefer to bomb them than allow free trade (Iran, which actually used to be industrialized, for instance) 2. Local governments are too corrupt so you can't reliably open a factory without it being seized by a corrupt official, like most of Africa. 3. Government isn't corrupt, but can't effectively protect your property and investments, like trying to start a mill in Northern Mexico where the cartels will just come and rob you.

Despite these problems, the 3rd world is still economically growing at an amazing rate. The UN Millennial Goals project projects that global poverty (defined by living on less than $1.90/day in 2005 USD) will end by 2030 (actually, this was a pre-COVID estimate, now the UN and World Bank have revised this to 2035). Every single day, 250,000 people in 3rd world countries cross this threshold out of extreme poverty on their way upwards towards the middle class. This is unprecedented growth, unseen before in Human history, both in the rate of growth and the number of people affected.

Sorry for the rant, already too long, but I could go on for hours (its what I studied in college).
  • 2 3
 @hamncheez: dawg you have to be kidding me. Name one example of capitalism screwing people in developing nations? The coup in iran I brought up was precipitated by the oil company that became BP. They just used communism as an excuse. The Iranian oil flowed out of Iran and into British pockets. Mossadegh, who wanted to keep that money for Iran and not see it flow overseas tried to control it and advance and western capitalism blocked it with their coup. In Guatemala the year after United fruit (an American company that was extracting natural resources) brought industrial banana production to Guatemala. When that was threatened by land reform it was United fruit who went to their boys in the cia to overthrow. If you don’t believe there are examples of the west using their head start to control industries when countries industrialize you are beyond help. I would also say that you free market felators fail to grasp that what is good for the economy does not always help everyone. And you can’t sit here in the west and say that you know what’s best for these people either. Either way you are twisting yourself into a pretzel to say that capitalism is the perfect system for everyone everywhere every time. If you think that your head is in your ass.
  • 1 4
 @zanda23: You're a f*cking idiot with no knowledge that wasn't spoon fed to you by some shitheaded liberal arts professors.

Iran was only controlled by a prime minister because British and Russian intelligence coordinated the overthrow of the Shah in 1941 over concerns about Nazi sympathies, so in reality they were just reverting their previous meddling... Mossaddegh wasn't some hero making Iran a better place, he was just a poster boy for entitlement programs and taxation so leftist clowns love him. In reality, one of the greatest economic eras of Iranian prosperity was following his removal. Your professors told you he was a hero because he was a leftist, period. The truth is, Iran wasn't all that f*cked up until the 1979 Islamic Revolution.
  • 3 0
 @zanda23: When the government colludes with big business, thats not capitalism. Its actually Benito Mussolini's own definition of Fascism. When I say Capitalism, I mean free exchange with minimal or no government interference. The examples you gave are very good, and it sounds like you know more about those specific historical events than I do. The issue is these events were all government intervention. BP didn't overthrow Mossadegh, it was the US and UK governments. In Central America, it wasn't United Fruit who overthrew the local government, it was the CIA.

These governments may have acted on behalf of their constituents (guess what; we aren't government constituents, megacorps are), but thats not capitalism. Others in this thread have made great comments about the
pitfalls of government/corporate collusion.

The "late-stage capitalism" argument is that all industry will eventually coalesce into single monopolies that get so heavy society collapses. This only happens when government has the power to interfere in the markets, whether its mandated COVID lockdowns that precipitated the largest transfer of wealth to billionaires in history, or CIA assassinations of other government officials. None of that is capitalism, making "late-stage capitalism" misleading as it should be called "late-stage centralization" or "late-stage command economies".

Also returning to the original post, this recent consolidation and enlargement/enrichment of billion (and now trillion) dollar companies , at the expense of smaller startups, is mostly due to government COVID lockdown policies. These policies are enforced by government regulation, and are not the effects of Capitalism. They are the effect of government action, the antithesis of capitalism.
  • 3 1
 @badbadleroybrown: Once again, your actual points are probably pretty good, but no one will know because you lead your comment with insults. Not to mention its probably against the terms of user for PB, making your comment in danger of being removed (I'm against comment curation in its entirety, but I don't run/own pb)
  • 1 4
 @hamncheez: Bro... I gave up on caring about whether or not the delicate little clowns on Pinkbike are willing to learn. I'll state the facts and call a moron a moron and they can listen and learn or they can get caught up in their feelings and miss out on information, I don't care either way. 70% of people have an IQ between 85-115, if you're catering to the majority it means you're catering to fairly unintelligent people, which I'm not interested in.
  • 1 2
 @hamncheez: What my examples were pointing out was not the western interference politically but the previous western economic interference that pushed those places to the breaking point of electing radical leaders that the cia hated. Mossadegh and arbenz did not exist in a vacuum, things got so bad that they were able to get into power. to return to the original debate we are having I am saying that capitalism has flaws and you are implying that it is perfect. If you want to come sit at the adults table and discuss nuances and what’s overall the best we can do that but you insisting that there is not a single thing wrong with the capitalist system is as cringey as 15 year olds on the internet saying that communism was never properly implemented.

@badbadleroybrown i agree that the 79 revolution was very bad. The reason we got there was the capitulation to western business corrupting Iranian society. Do you think liberal arts professors are inherently wrong? Do you think I haven’t done my own research and reading on this?

Both of you, I may not be as strong an economist as hamncheez Keynes over here but you two twist yourselves into pretzels to deny that capitalism has ever created conditions for oppression. I’m not against capitalism but an ounce of critical thought will show that capitalism has caused problems for many people around the globe.
  • 3 0
 @zanda23: If you really want to get to first principles, neither socialism nor capitalism creates oppression. Oppression comes from either nature (famine, drought, disease, etc) or from other people. To my reading of history and economics, its pretty clear that Capitalism minimizes oppression from these two sources better than any other system. It can be described as a "lack" of a system, since its just what happens when people leave each other alone.

As others have said, I'm not sure theres an example of "pure capitalism" in history, nor would such an example be Utopia where high pivots and gearboxes have no drag or effect on climbing, but dang the closer a society is to capitalism the fewer people starve to death and the fewer Journalists there are in prison.
  • 1 5
flag badbadleroybrown (Feb 24, 2022 at 11:49) (Below Threshold)
 @zanda23: Capitalism doesn't create conditions... period, full stop. That's the problem with clueless kids like yourself who know nothing that wasn't fed to them by idiot liberal arts professors who, yes, are inherently full of shit and more ignorant than most of their students, trying to frame issues you don't understand. Capitalism doesn't encourage nor require human corruption, in fact it rewards corruption the least of all systems because it inherently includes consumer approval as a condition of success. If a company does a thing you don't like and people stop buying from them, they fail. That's tangential though... back to your specific fallacious argument regarding Iran, nothing about capitalism made life in Iran the shitshow it is today, religious extremism and Islamic jurisprudence made it the shitshow it is today. Nothing about "capitulation to Western business" led to the Islamic Revolution.

You're not a strong economist, you're not a strong logistician, you're not a strong thinker in general... you're not even a strong parrot in repeating the stupid shit you heard from useless LA professors.
  • 4 1
 @badbadleroybrown: you are a shithead and I have no time for you.

@hamncheez it seems to me you are moving the goalpost and diving into the minutiae and nomenclature and not seeing my point. I don’t think you are making a good case that the west has never oppressed people economically (which if you deny even the possibility of you are just wrong.) free markets can be a good thing but people have used older established free markets to come in and exert force on newer recently free markets and dominate them. The casualties of this are people In the developing world.
  • 1 4
 @zanda23: Nice way to admit you can't reason your way through your emotions and ignorance to get to fact, and that can't rebut anything said because you don't know anything. It's about what I expected of you but good of you to admit it all the same.
  • 3 1
 @badbadleroybrown: nope. I just think you are beyond reason due to you being either ; a: Extremely stupid, b: a troll, or c: both.

I would love to hear however the well founded and completely fact based takes I’m sure you have on the legitimacy of the 2020 election
  • 2 3
 @zanda23: Don't waste your time mate. He's just a brainwashed member of the right wing intelligentsia. All hail capitalism and American exceptionalism! They always have a convenient answer or excuse for the crimes of US empire.
  • 1 0
 @mybaben: The Internet is a r@ped ass
  • 2 0
 @mybaben: Honestly, it reads like Hamncheez is arguing one thing, and you guys are arguing a separate, but related topic. It also reads as though you agree on as much or more than you disagree on. It's just that you're coming at it from separate angles.
I think he's right for the simple fact that an economic system is, imo, based on a set of psychological principals and values. One thing you see in central and eastern europe is how opportunistic people are here. It's died down a bit over the years, but unless you had lived in their government-run reality show, there's no way to appreciate the feeling of freedom of finally being able to try their own hand at running their lives. Now, what has happened since then is what you would expect: whoever was connected, or whoever succeeded worked hard to crush any competition. They do things like make a bunch of money then buy out a small well-run establishment (e.g. kebab stand, mechanic's, bakery), then immediately cut costs, reduce quality, coast on past-earned reputation as long as they can and then off load the heap of shit they've reduced the business to. And it's not just savvy business people doing this, not by a longshot. The people in city governments tend to hold office for a VERY long time. The government knows who's doing well and people in government NEVER become poor.

I'm not trying to lecture you, and I hope it's not received that way, it's just a perspective you might not have had.
  • 1 4
 @zanda23: Oh look, another strawman argument and no intelligent rebuttals.

I already acknowledged your ignorance, you don't need to keep trying to hard to prove it... you've convinced us.
  • 4 0
 @zanda23: This is what I don't get. Time after time I've pointed out that the CIA, Bush, Obama, Trump, and now Biden use our military to topple governments, force Ukraine to fire their corruption prosecutors (what Trump was impeached for doing, and what Biden did while he was Vice Pres), then you say

"I don’t think you are making a good case that the west has never oppressed people economically "

Telling a foreign leader to fire the prosecutor investigating your son for corruption or you will withhold $1 BILLION in loan guarantees is 100% economic manipulation and oppression. Its just being done by government, not Capitalism.
  • 2 2
 @hamncheez: not saying that thing doesn’t happen. Obviously militaries have been used for oppression. What I’m saying is that in addition to problematic behavior from western govts, western corporations have also done harm to everyday people in other countries. Denying that they have is ridiculous.
  • 1 1
 @sonuvagun: I wasn't responding to hamncheez and actually haven't read his posts. I was focusing on badbadleroybrown. Cheers.
  • 2 0
 @mybaben: Why haven't you read my posts?? Its only a 40-50min read!!
  • 1 1
 @hamncheez: LOL. That's partially why. that and i was focused on the abusive right wing capitalist's posts. If you have some sincere points you'd like me to read, I will do that.
  • 1 4
 @mybaben: show us on the doll where success and freedom hurt you lil guy...
  • 3 1
 @badbadleroybrown: show us on the doll again dude? You love that one dont you Smile Double thumbs up with my helmet on durrrr
  • 1 3
 @pargolf8: Show us on the doll where the thumbs up hurt you...
  • 16 6
 God damn evil corporations trying to turn raw materials and labour into profit based on the voluntary leisure spending of free willed people trying to enjoy themselves. How dare they. This sport has gone to the dogs ever since Spesh mass produced the stump jumper in 1987.
  • 2 1
 Despite your sarcasm, it's a clever insinuation. But is that what is happening with these buyouts?
  • 8 1
 Sure it's dollar driven, but companies aren't in this for charity.

BUT - I still expect Pinkbike to call out excess bike industry costs: From bike companies, to clothing and components. It's all excessively expensive:

- $35 for brake pads?
- $300 - $500 for a full face helmet?
- $125 for riding pants?

Try and imagine if any of the above was sold at Costco, all of it would be 1/2 the cost.
  • 4 0
 You have a link for those $35 brake pads?
  • 1 0
 @kilo11: Shimano N04C are currently going for >50CHFs a pair over here (ie >60USD) www.galaxus.ch/en/s3/product/shimano-n04c-shimano-sintered-metal-brake-pads-10221824
  • 2 0
 @kilo11: Too cheap, too expensive - not sure what you mean? I think that's what I paid for my Kool stops.
  • 7 0
 I built underground mountain bike trails in my prepper bunker. Its got tech, jump lines, and some sweet flow trails all in twisting caverns and caves. First ten people to reply to this thread get in with a buddy for the financial apocalypses. No Orbea riders though, you're part of the problem.
  • 3 0
 I'll bring a shovel and a bitcoin block chain printed out on laminated paper!
  • 6 0
 I'm pretty happy with this bike-bizz explosion. Loads of people get to taste their first bike. Loads of them get their first portion of how it is to move around from the cyclist perspective.

Hope they keep it in mind when hop back in the car and pass you at 120km/h on a narrow road scraping the color of your grips.
  • 6 0
 See what has happened to Peloton? The same will happen to the bike industry on e COVID is a thing of the past. The industry better be socking away some dollars for rougher roads ahead.
  • 7 0
 They are being bought for the same reason you were bought. So somebody can make more money than y the ear before.
  • 8 3
 "Sorry to break it to you if you're an eMTB detractor, but battery-powered bikes are driving the industry forward at the moment."

Pun Intended?
  • 5 0
 Cash from pre-orders is investment? Since when? I'd say that taking money and not giving nothing in return is "debt", said politely.
  • 6 3
 You have got to be CEO in big investment company to buy “nice” bike this days, soo its almost cheeper to buy whole company,….and you dont need to wait in line for new model

45 Sworks Kenevos = Athe.rton bikes
100 Sworks Kenevos = Cu.be
200 Sworks Kenevos = Ye.ti
300 Sworks Kenevos & 2 Levos + 2 Unnos = Big S
314 apple 13 PRO & 11 Sworks Kenevo = Shim.ano
  • 5 0
 More importantly I am interested in what will happen to the housing market. Specifically rapidly growing areas like Boise.
  • 2 1
 They will continue to appreciate in value. Buy what you can, when you can. Trust me Smile
  • 5 1
 I’m telling you things. Trust me.
  • 1 1
 @topherdagopher: lol ok topher
  • 1 4
 @topherdagopher: ive been in this industry probably since you were on your dads swim team bud
  • 3 1
 @pargolf8: They continued to appreciate, if you zoom out far enough, because our population has continued to grow. More people = more spending = growing economy = growing housing market. But if/when that changes, we'll be in a whole new world. There are more and more signs that population growth, especially in developed countries, is slowing and/or reversing.
  • 1 2
 @rockandride6: say what you want. The proof is in the pudding as far as im concerned. The longer you wait the harder it will get for joe consumer to purchase a home. I started my portfolio 10+ years ago and its one of the best decisions ive made from an investment perspective
  • 2 0
 @pargolf8: That is short term. We are in a housing bubble. If prices keep climbing, less people will be able to buy, leading to a bigger supply than demand. The bubble will pop. Add in the fact that millennials and gen z are living longer at home w parents and are having less and less children, economic downturn is in the future. Not saying prices will drop significantly, but it cannot keep climbing at this rate. And then big corps will buy up all the housing and everyone will be renting enslaved to capitalism.
  • 1 1
 @stumphumper92: im no big corporation, but yes my objective is to be your landlord. No matter the situation, shelter will always be people’s top priority behind food. If you know anything about the shortage of housing across the whole country, its my opinion i will be dust in the wind before the supply out paces the demand
  • 1 0
 @pargolf8: I was never on my dads swim team bud. Trust me.
  • 1 1
 @topherdagopher: maybe just let that marinate for a second first…
  • 1 0
 @pargolf8: I’m maybe just letting that marinate for a sec. Trust me.
  • 2 0
 Same reason people buy high flying stocks. They want a piece of the action after the proof is already out. This is identical to the stock market a month ago as everything is way out of whack. High P/E is great for companies selling and makes people think that the money will keep coming and they do no research. What's actually going to be smart is buying bike companies in a year or two when they aren't pulling in dough uncontrollably and loans aren't free. Or buying your stocks in April when everybody is hitting max panic. Pinkbike you should hire a writer who understands finance, this article is written from the perspective of somebody who buys high and sells low. There's no such thing as a sustainably managed boom. A boom by definition is going to bust!
  • 2 0
 So many bike companies are being bought because when there is stagnation in economic growth small companies end up selling to bigger companies. The capitalist system is designed to constantly grow, but sometimes there are crashes, like 1929, 1987, and the current Covid flux. When these crashes happen small companies are bought out. This is one of the reasons why there are these huge corporations. They keep on buying all the small businesses in times of flux. In the end, the economic pie is being shared by a smaller and smaller elite, and the small busineses, like a mom and pop operations, shut down.
  • 2 0
 In 40 years my grandkids will be asking me ̈ Grandpa, why did you invest your whole retirement into bikes?" and I´ll sit on my porch overlooking a private pond encircled by an endless pump track, and I´ll give them a wise smile before peacefully dying, my ghost drifting off like a great Jedi´s spirit, floating away to shred heaven, land of infinite descents.
  • 2 0
 Investors are getting into the bike industry because they see an opportunity for ROI. At the end of the day many of these investors have little interest in the cycling industry per se. They see a sector that will give them the best ROI at the moment. The problems with this are 2 fold

1. To maximise their ROI means we have to pay more for our bikes and bits for them
2. At some point these investors will decide a different sector is going to give them a better ROI and so will divest. What happens to the companies then? Are they strong enough to stand that shock.
  • 2 0
 Man all you haters commenting (I guess myself by default) and throwing hate. The fix? Be satisfied w your current bike, don't talk politics, ride said bike and actually get a job where you get to shoot f*ckin enemies of the state in the face (for real).
  • 2 0
 It's a pretty old story. You start a company in an area you're passionate about, typically when you're younger. It becomes successful, perhaps wildly so, and it's a bit of a rush for awhile. Over time, however, you realize what most people realize, which is that running a "small" business is hard, requiring a ton of sacrifice most people are unwilling to make, and the original "passion" gets lost in the mix. Years pass and a large corp offers you a ton of money to buy you out, to the point where you, effectively, can have an early retirement. That offer starts to look really nice the longer it goes on. To be frank, I don't blame those that take the offer. I probably would and just let my detractors pound sand in the comment section.

Consumers, on the other hand, just see the end product. Bikes! Sweet! And that is awesome, but it's important to remind ourselves, as consumers, that we're not owed companies started by others. During covid, some of my favorite, long-standing restaurants owned by locals had to close down. I was bummed at first, but, I reminded myself that ultimately, these are people with real lives and it was easier to understand. That's the "downside", so to speak, of small businesses and it has nothing to do with politics, economic philosophy (capitalism, socialism, etc.). As consumers, we don't fully grasp the near all consuming grind that is owning and running a small business. And that burden falls on the shoulders of less people in a small business. That's where "big corporations" have distinct advantages.

So my philosophy is to be grateful for the successful run of a small company you like. I was a big Turner guy for most of my life. While it was sad to see Turner get out of the FS MTB game, it was totally understandable when you personalize the company which was, essentially, Dave Turner. You're lucky if you get a good 10-20 year run in any small business. Enjoy it while it lasts and wish them well when they get out.
  • 20 16
 Why Are So Many Bike Companies Being Bought at the Moment?

Because greedy rich bastads sucks ass.
  • 4 0
 +1.
  • 5 4
 Honestly? Good for them. We're still a long way from monopoly/duopoly issues (at least for *bikes*) and a lot of smaller brands could benefit from a more professional working environment. At some point most employees realize that bro deals and afternoon beers aren't a substitute for a decent paycheck and benefits.

And if you're a founder who's been working long hours, taking small paychecks, and seeing your passion become plain old work work, cash the eff out. You've seen things go up and down and it's not looking like there's any more up on the horizon. Enjoy some time off and (if you even still want to) go for a bike ride.
  • 5 0
 Ya !! Why WAS pinkbike sold to a big corporation?
  • 1 0
 None of you guys ride enough if you spend this much time on corporate policy, economics, and ethics. Pop more wheelies! Also battery recycling is coming around pretty quickly: www.redwoodmaterials.com VW has some cool stuff happening too.
  • 2 0
 So am I supposed to be happy that some corporation is making massive profits and paying minimal taxes while profiting from "quantitative easing" while many wage earners suffer from stagnation? Cuz that's what it reads like.
  • 1 0
 Maybe they are being bought because sales margins in the bike industry are quite high at the moment. And when the pandemic ends and the prices of materials and components will start going down again, the margins will be even higher because I don't think that we as consumers will ever get to see the price reduction. The trend is that bikes are getting more expensive every year, they are too expensive and will never ever going to be cheaper again.
  • 2 0
 I always come to PB comments to get the economic facts from all of the well educated experts on the subject ~ sarcasm font disengaged ~
  • 4 0
 Sorry but Gonna have to defer to my user name for this articles question.
  • 3 0
 I’m thinkin’ hmmm… whether intended or not, PB has put out some real flame bait here
  • 1 1
 Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin[c] (born 7 October 1952) is a Russian politician and former intelligence officer who is the current president of Russia. He has been serving in this position since 2012, and he previously held this office from 1999 until 2008.[7][d] He was also the prime minister from 1999 to 2000, and again from 2008 to 2012. Putin is the second-longest current serving European president after Alexander Lukashenko.
  • 3 0
 Cause he’s
Bad ,Bad Leroy Brown,
the disrespectfulest Prick in the whole damn town
  • 2 1
 I would tell you it has more to do with direct to consumer sales. But don’t take my word for it: Read Zap’s column in Road Bike Action.
  • 3 1
 If I won power ball lottery ima buy specialized then fire the peice of sbit ceo
  • 3 0
 pretty sure no lottery would have a big enough jackpot for you to do that
  • 1 0
 I just have to say it, Shimano get your act and production in gear! I can find most all things sram easily, shimano everything is sold out!
  • 3 0
 The opinions are as bad as the usernames....
  • 5 1
 THE GREAT RESET
  • 1 0
 If possible, buy a bike from a small local maker that ethically sources parts and labor. Do that for everything in your life that you can and choke out the Man, breh.
  • 2 0
 I never knew how many economists there were on PinkBike.
  • 3 1
 pINkBiKe has been acquired by oUtSiDe…
  • 1 0
 Comparable to the skate industry crash?! Ha! Boards and equipment never skyrocketed the way the bike industry have.
  • 1 0
 Why are venture capitalists buying bike companies? Duh, it is all about them big money dollars. Cha-ching.
  • 2 1
 In addition to pink bike academy y’all need a pink bike university based on these comment threads oh my
  • 1 0
 I dont think that taking a picture of a Stanton welder is well illustrating the subject...
  • 1 0
 Why is pinkbike using shutterstock images for their covers?
Search for: "shake hands" "close deal" "businessman"
  • 2 4
 Oh yes such a "killer virus" that it only killed 30000 in 2 years in Canada which is less the the amount of people that die from the common flu every year but facts don't matter to our clownshoe government or most of our political community.
  • 3 4
 at the astonishing rate Brandon's going the only way to commute will be by bicycle
  • 1 0
 get rid of beta stories
  • 2 3
 I sAw you in tHE TrUcK ConVoy rIgHT?
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