Yesterday I was talking to a trail manager friend of mine. He mentioned the challenge he has balancing trail usage between riders who want to blast down the hills with reckless abandon and those who want to climb up them no matter how much downhill traffic is coming at them. It got me thinking that pure cross-country riders and gravity riders who refuse to pedal uphill are both pretty funny.
And, so, for your entertainment, let’s watch them fight!
‘O Enduro, Enduro, wherefore art thou Enduro? Deny thy father and refuse thy name; or if thou wilt not, be but sworn my love and I'll no longer be a Downhiller. Shall I hear more, or shall I speak at this? 'Tis but thy name that is my enemy: thou art thyself, though not a Crosscountrier.’
’Tis but thy name that is mine enemy: What’s X.C.? It is not hand nor foot, Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part. What’s in a name? That which we call DH, by any other name would smell as sweet.
@Altron5000: To pedal, or not to descend, that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous climbs, Or to take arms against a sea of roots And by doubling end them. To brake—to crash, No more; and by a crash to say we end The heart-ache and the thousand natural shock bottom outs That DH is heir to.
We few, we happy few, we dh brothers; For he to-day that shreds trails with me Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, This day shall gentle his condition; And climbers in England now a-bed Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here, And hold their spandex cheap whiles any speaks That drop-in with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
I have of late—but wherefore I know not—lost all my girth, forgone all custom of shredding, and indeed it goes so heavily with my disposition that this goodly frame, the bike, seems to me a sterile promontory; this most excellent trail, the jumps—look you, this brave o'erhanging double drop, these majestical roots fretted with slimy mud—why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of tapers. What a piece of work is a bike! How noble in angles, how infinite in shredability! In form and moving how express and admirable! In action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god! The beauty of the trails. The paragon of vehicles. And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of parts? Climbs delights not me. No, nor spandex neither, though by your smiling you seem to say so.
@The-Mango-Kid: That line is used so often it’s become annoyingly cliche. Almost as annoying as the XC rider who refuses to yield when he’s riding downhill (because he refuses to ride the down-only trails).
@The-Mango-Kid: A Bike with a fossil fuel powered engine is called a motorcycle Motorcycle /ˈməʊtəsʌɪk(ə)l/ noun a two-wheeled vehicle that is powered by a motor and has NO pedals.
@Demoguy: Not quite. You're got scooters in there too. In the states (many of them), there are different classifications for different power and style of motorized uncaged vehicles. It's amazing how they are able to see that there is a difference between a 1000cc motorcycle and a 50cc scooter...
@mkotowski1: I'm just busting your chops. I actually have a few friends in santa cruz who ride SS mtb and they smoke me going uphill...its mildly upsetting.
Power consumption on ski lifts varies widely due to lift size and steepness, but a big lift in VT or CO (which is where we all want to ride) could easily be around 600kWH according to the interwebs.
Based on my half-assed calculations (see disclaimer below), if an XC rider could sustain a 200 watt effort for 30 hours straight, they would generate 6kW hours. So, you would need 100 XC riders pedaling continuously for 30 hours straight at a 200 watt effort to power a big ski lift FOR ONE HOUR.
Disclaimer: This all assumes 100% efficiency batteries, which isn't possible. You'd also lose some energy to friction, bathroom breaks, mental breakdowns and other real-world details). Also, I'm a cyclist, not a physicist, so this could all be wildly inaccurate. Feel free to correct me if you have some expertise.
The bike park I have a season pass to is all run off of a massive windmill and a small solar installation. They’ve got enough surplus to have two electric car charging spots.
@pixelguru According to your numbers you could also just say that it takes 3000 XC riders at any time the lift spins. Say there are 100 chairs going up ( which is like 200 or 400 DH riders?) Sounds like pretty bad efficiency....
Thank you for your Trump reference, his complete lack of understanding of renewables technologies and the money/jobs it creates is quite... interesting.
@DHhack: I have solar panels on my roof and I generate excess power which goes to the grid and typically I see a credit from the power company every month. Thus I generate more power than I need. Are my power needs 100% met? Nope. I still get my power from the grid when the sun goes down, which also happen's to be when my peak power need occurs. This is true for all renewable's and the grid supply/demand in general. I think it's your lack of understanding of "renewable" technology that is in question here. Berkshire's goal of "power" storage is noble. Whether they can match their supply with sufficient energy storage capacity to match their demand curve when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining is a very challenging engineering & capital investment challenge.
@laksboy: comparing residential power needs with commercial. Please educate me. I’d love your explanation on if you think the pet project of rich people might account for such things? You’re stuck on cloudy days with no wind, a weather phenomenon that’s not particularly common in their part of the country, ignoring snow, which happens a lot more frequently than your Trump-FUD excuses go. But hey, you’re the expert!
@DHhack: www.ucsusa.org/resources/how-electricity-grid-works When a company claims they get their power from "100% renewable" it's 100% feel-good marketing bullshit. Just like the bike industry. Unless they are disconnected from the grid and have no diesel back-up generators. It's a false statement, because that's not how the grid or electricity works. Berkshire's renewable assets probably do generate a surplus that meets or exceeds their demand and they may even get credits back from their local power grid for when they are generating more power than they need. But when the sun goes down and the wind isn't blowing, they are buying power back from the grid, and it's not the same "renewable electrons" that they sold to the grid earlier. It's from a base load nuke or coal plant, maybe hydro, or a peaker natural gas power plant. Or even if they do have enough pumped storage "battery capacity" unless it's all on a closed disconnected grid, there's no guarantee that those "electrons" coming from the pumped storage where in fact charged by Berkshire's surplus of turbine/solar generation. So charge your Tesla on a calm night at the ski hill and feel good about yourself but the power isn't coming from renewable energy.
@Fix-the-Spade: Never looked at it from that perspective. I ride my mountainbike standing up and because the bars on my bike are higher than the handlebar of a unicycle (typically the nose of the saddle or some people run an extension) it feels like I can stand taller on the bike than I do on the unicycle. So yeah, not sure which is taller. It may be similar. You can tuck low on a DH bike obviously but then again when you tuck SIF (seat in front) on a unicycle you're even lower .
Definitely taller on my unicycle. Upright seating position and no bottom bracket drop. Trails that are all good on my bike have me head butting twigs on my uni.
There should be a free rider (skate helmet, ripped flannel, jean shorts, ankle braces, blown out skate shoes) looking on to this debate like “are you guys silly or are ya just gonna send it?”
They're both satisfying in different ways. When I complete a 30+ mile ride with decent vertical I feel like I really accomplished something and sometimes wish I would have been able to hit the DH sections a couple more times.
When I finish a day of lift riding/shuttles I am still pretty spent and had a blast riding. Maybe not as much of a feeling of accomplishment as the epic ride. Hitting sections that challenge my skill level do give you that feeling of progression though.
I like them both. XC racing is not for me though. I'm just not built for it and don't have the time to train to the point where I'd be competitive locally. I'm built more like a powerlifter than a XCer. Genetics...
Thanks God (or actually to zillions of us riders & industry that serves us very well) for Enduro bikes! Ready for chairlift & shuttle, proper DH, but you can pedal it easy to remote special trails
I don't know how to define myself according to most people. I ride xc . I ride downhill and I also e- bike . I thought I was just a mountain biker but I guess I might be wrong
@Jamminator: No...no they wouldn't be. Did you even ride Whistler or another famous bike park in the early 2000's when the UCI allowed lycra? Half of every lift line was definitely not people in that garbage...
@madocreg2: The only other sport I know of that ever regulated clothing for purely aesthetic reasons is beach volleyball (had to be skimpy to draw the crowds in a sport no-one woulda watched otherwise - who says sex doesn't sell? No-one.)
Have you seen how tight DH pants are these days? May as well be in a skin suit.
Ok. The Shakespearean interpretation s and paraphrases win the internet. I'm late in this one but damn that's good! If riding be the food of love...RIDE ON!
Hold on here. A comic about douchebags being douchey to each other and I'm the bad guy? I thought I was giving backhanded compliments to each discipline. Who's the real twat, bud. I'm thinkin' it ain't me.
Oh man, I gotsta. As a true biker, all the way back to the days of Redline, GT, and Mongoose BMX bikes of the 70's and 80's; and as someone who's been MTBing from the get go (Giant ATX760) and who's been a downhiller (Craftworks) and an XC guy(Klein). I've never worn f'in lycra or a man diaper; tighty whiteys or a jock strap and some soccer shorts along with a real saddle, not some ass crack suppository masquerading as a seat. Downhilling is NOT biking!!! It's coasting. All the guys I used to downhill with wouldn't pedal up a hill to save their dying mother. But if some meathead jocko homo wants to get on a bike a throw his/her carcass off some shit more power to 'em. f*ck 'em all
You’ve got issues, bud. You’ve managed to offend a number of people including those who take offense to “homo”. As another rider already stated, but I’ll say it again, f*ck outta here with this bs.
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy: thou art thyself, though not a Crosscountrier.’
What’s X.C.? It is not hand nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part.
What’s in a name? That which we call DH, by any other name would smell as sweet.
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous climbs,
Or to take arms against a sea of roots
And by doubling end them. To brake—to crash,
No more; and by a crash to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shock bottom outs
That DH is heir to.
For he to-day that shreds trails with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And climbers in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their spandex cheap whiles any speaks
That drop-in with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
Motorcycle
/ˈməʊtəsʌɪk(ə)l/
noun
a two-wheeled vehicle that is powered by a motor and has NO pedals.
If you need me, I’ll be donning my power ranger pajamas and climbing six miles of gravel to bomb down a mountain. Peace out!
Based on my half-assed calculations (see disclaimer below), if an XC rider could sustain a 200 watt effort for 30 hours straight, they would generate 6kW hours. So, you would need 100 XC riders pedaling continuously for 30 hours straight at a 200 watt effort to power a big ski lift FOR ONE HOUR.
Disclaimer: This all assumes 100% efficiency batteries, which isn't possible. You'd also lose some energy to friction, bathroom breaks, mental breakdowns and other real-world details). Also, I'm a cyclist, not a physicist, so this could all be wildly inaccurate. Feel free to correct me if you have some expertise.
Thank you for your Trump reference, his complete lack of understanding of renewables technologies and the money/jobs it creates is quite... interesting.
When a company claims they get their power from "100% renewable" it's 100% feel-good marketing bullshit. Just like the bike industry. Unless they are disconnected from the grid and have no diesel back-up generators. It's a false statement, because that's not how the grid or electricity works. Berkshire's renewable assets probably do generate a surplus that meets or exceeds their demand and they may even get credits back from their local power grid for when they are generating more power than they need. But when the sun goes down and the wind isn't blowing, they are buying power back from the grid, and it's not the same "renewable electrons" that they sold to the grid earlier. It's from a base load nuke or coal plant, maybe hydro, or a peaker natural gas power plant. Or even if they do have enough pumped storage "battery capacity" unless it's all on a closed disconnected grid, there's no guarantee that those "electrons" coming from the pumped storage where in fact charged by Berkshire's surplus of turbine/solar generation. So charge your Tesla on a calm night at the ski hill and feel good about yourself but the power isn't coming from renewable energy.
When I finish a day of lift riding/shuttles I am still pretty spent and had a blast riding. Maybe not as much of a feeling of accomplishment as the epic ride. Hitting sections that challenge my skill level do give you that feeling of progression though.
I like them both. XC racing is not for me though. I'm just not built for it and don't have the time to train to the point where I'd be competitive locally. I'm built more like a powerlifter than a XCer. Genetics...
Have you seen how tight DH pants are these days? May as well be in a skin suit.