Yamaha to Launch Their Own eMTB Lineup

Sep 13, 2017
by Pinkbike Staff  
The Yamaha PW-X motor system.
The Yamaha PW-X motor system.

Yamaha Motors is launching a new division, dubbed "Yamaha Bicycles," to enter the electric-assist fray with their own line of complete bikes. Previously they'd supplied eMTB motors to companies like Lapierre, Giant, Haibike, and more, but it appears they will now also be bringing an in-house offering to market.

Our own Richard Cunningham has been predicting motorcycle companies' entry into the eMTB market for quite some time now, and with both Yamaha and KTM (via Pexco) developing eMTBs it certainly feels like a significant shift is underway.

We've heard many anecdotal stories about eMTB users often coming from the motorcycle world, and Yamaha is clearly taking aim at those riders who will recognize a familiar name. It is possible that motorcycle brands like Yamaha will come in and eat traditional bike manufacturers' lunch with eMTBs. Surely Yamaha has some competitive advantages over the companies that they supply motors to, but will they bring enough bike experience to the table to create a compelling offering?
bigquotesBicycle makers, most of which are staffed by ex-competitors, will wage a technology war against each other, both on the racetracks and in their boardrooms, and in doing so, will win the battle for the motor makers. (...) When that happens, bike makers will have nothing valuable to sell them that couldn't be produced elsewhere for less. Read more...Richard Cunningham, September 2016

Another major question will be on pricing, which is yet to be announced. Yes, the familiar refrain of "I could buy a motorcycle for that" could ring out—more ironically than usual; but it is possible that Yamaha's economies of scale and production efficiencies could result in lower, disruptive prices.

Their focus here is clearly the US market, where many feel that eMTBs could threaten trail access. While some eMTB manufacturers that are selling in North America have chosen to not address trail access issues, it seems likely that Yamaha will work to help safeguard our sport's most important resource. Conversely, Yamaha being a motorcycle company may fan the flames of opposition to eMTB access.

No word yet on distribution channels, but we expect Yamaha to open accounts in traditional IBDs as well as leverage their existing dealer network.

Will they bring a motorcycle-influenced approach (KYB? Öhlins?) to their suspension? Will they use the same motor technology they offer to other bike manufacturers? Will they make non-electric bikes as well? Yamaha were tight-lipped about their plans, but with Interbike just days away we're sure to get some answers soon.

Press release below.

Yamaha Motor Corp., USA, Entering U.S. Electric Bicycle Market, All-New Prototype Models to be on Display at Interbike

CYPRESS, Calif. – September 12, 2017 – Yamaha Motor Corp., USA, announced today it will enter the U.S. electric bicycle market in 2018. Yamaha will launch its “Yamaha Power Assist Bicycles” brand to the U.S. at Interbike, the largest bicycle trade event in North America. Yamaha invites bicycle retailers to visit its booth at Interbike in Las Vegas, September 20-22, 2017, for a first opportunity to view prototype models, as the company establishes relationships with specific retailers currently servicing cycling consumers.

“Yamaha has been a pioneer, inventor, and innovator in electric bicycles for more than two decades,” said Terry Okawa, President, Yamaha Motor Corp., U.S.A.

Yamaha Motor Company, Ltd. (YMC) launched the world’s first electrically power assisted bicycle in 1993 and has since produced more than 4 million drive units and sold over 2 million Yamaha power assist bicycles. YMC supplies class-leading e-Bike Systems to select OEM partners worldwide.

“Everyone at Yamaha is excited to be entering the rapidly expanding U.S. e-Bike market and sharing Yamaha’s passion for exciting products and legendary product performance, innovative design, quality and reliability with the growing e-Bike audience,” said Rob Trester, Division Manager, New Business Development Division which is launching the Yamaha Power Assist Bicycles brand.

Yamaha’s Power Assist Bicycles are scheduled to be available at U.S. dealers starting in 2018.

Learn more starting September 20, 2017, at yamahabicycles.com and follow on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.



About Yamaha Motor Corp., USA

Yamaha Motor Corporation, USA, (YMUS) headquartered in Cypress, Calif., since its incorporation in 1976, is a leader in the outdoor recreation market. The company’s ever-expanding product offerings include Power Assist Bicycles, ATV and Side-by-Side vehicles, motorcycles, outboard motors, personal watercraft, snowmobiles, boats, outdoor power equipment, accessories, apparel and much more. Yamaha also has facilities in Wisconsin and Georgia, as well as factory operations in Tennessee and Georgia. For more information on Yamaha Power Assist Bicycles, visit www.yamahabicycles.com.


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700 Comments

  • + 1046
 Title should read "Yamaha Continues to Make Motorbikes"
  • - 313
flag multialxndr (Sep 13, 2017 at 15:12) (Below Threshold)
 you muricans are so salty about ebikes
  • + 438
 @multialxndr: Us Americans have some major MTB access issues which ebikes can make a lot worse.......
  • - 223
flag nohit45 (Sep 13, 2017 at 15:24) (Below Threshold)
 @scott-townes: Please give examples where ebikes have made a situation worse.
  • + 232
 @scott-townes: Hi, Scott! Drew, from Yamaha Bicycles, here. We are absolutely aware of the access issue that mountain bikers (and other groups of trail users) are facing. Please know that we have already been working with several National sustainability groups and local land managers to help riders where we can. Please message me directly if you would like to share specific challenges in your area that we may not already be aware of. The more that mountain bikers can unify, the better opportunity we have to create a meaningful message to governing bodies.
  • + 390
 Pinkbike should stick to mountain bike news.
  • + 302
 Please make a sister site called PinkMotorizedVehicles so I don't have to read about this stuff on a mountain bike website.
  • + 178
 @YamahaBicycles: let me know when you guys start making mountain bikes instead of motorized vehicles.
  • + 273
 @YamahaBicycles: please stop calling these emtb. It's an electric MOTOR. Motor+bike=motorcycle. You can try to cover with saying you're fighting for trail access but at the end of the day you're doing it to sell motorcycles, not fighting for access for actual mountain bikes. In addition to this pinkbike, please stop covering this. It's not mountain biking. There have been multiple great arguments made that I'm not going to rehash that say why it's a poor choice and are worded far better than I ever could write them. This in the end will result in the loss of land use for actual bikers.
  • + 25
 If you are genuine and actually have some sway as a large company. How can they not help? Don't burn your bridges people..... On both sides. @YamahaBicycles:
  • + 57
 @YamahaBicycles: I never quite understood the difference between motorbikes and "eMTBs" (electric motorbikes with pedals) in terms of trail access. I am sure that changing the source of power from gasoline to electricity is not enough to gain the same rights as somebody using only manpower. ....in some places of the world, it is possible to have a 250w engine and call it a bike (as of today). But that will change dramatically in the future, cos people will start hacking their gear and buy Chinese super powerful engines. And nobody is going to be able to determine what is legal and what not. So they will be banned altogether.
  • + 123
 Almost every bike manufacturer is investing in frames which will accommodate bullshit electric motors, but barely any of them are investing in frames which will accommodate gearboxes!

What the f*ck!?

The sooner gearbox use becomes more widespread, the sooner the technology will improve.
  • - 89
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 15:49) (Below Threshold)
 Only a schmendric like you would call a dirt bike or motorcycle a "motorbike" in the first place lmao
  • + 40
 The day PB told Yamaha to get f...
  • + 47
 Fuck this shit. Stating that these ebikes are bikes is like saying a car becomes a motorbike if it's on 2 wheels. Gedfarkedyousecaants!!!!
  • + 93
 @bmoore34: Agree completely. This is a MOTORCYCLE with pedals, or at best a MOPED.

Motorcyles and mopeds don't belong on trails with signs like these: www.unicor.gov/shopping/catalog/P7104A.jpg

This should be the norm for new hiking / biking trail signs: cdn.mos.bikeradar.imdserve.com/images/news/2016/06/14/emtbtrails-1465908396589-17uavklof9q1j-1200-80.jpg
  • + 2
 @excavator666: You are so damn right!!!
  • - 10
flag sunday06 (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:12) (Below Threshold)
 @IluvRIDING: I ride mountain bikes and dirt bikes and recently tried out an e-bike, and I'm here to tell you the 350 watt e-bike motor is nothing compared to the 27000 watt engine on my relatively low powered (for a dirt bike) KTM. It just allowed me to mountain bike longer, get to the top of more trails and get to the fun part - shredding down. It wasn't tearing up the trail at all, unlike a dirt bike...just saying, it adds a lot more riding to your day which is all anybody wants.
  • - 16
flag bartimusprime (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:13) (Below Threshold)
 @YamahaBicycles: I for one am excited about the prospect of having more companies and frankly bigger companies lobby and fund more access and more trails. We can whine all we want about e-bikes but they aren't going away. Embrace the new kid on the block and and work with the new kid to carve out an even better situation for all of us.
  • + 27
 @multialxndr: not just americans
  • - 27
flag d-man (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:16) (Below Threshold)
 @retswen: don't want to read it don't open up the article.....
  • - 8
flag Jackson900 (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:17) (Below Threshold)
 @nohit45: Your mom's house.
  • + 11
 @d-man: I legit thought it was a new gearbox.
  • - 40
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:20) (Below Threshold)
 @sunday06: butthurt kids down voting logic and reason.

Hahah
  • + 35
 @bartimusprime: It's true - e-Bikes aren't going anywhere.

More lobbying and trail access funding is great, but bigger companies aren't effectively incentivized with the land's best interests in mind. Corporations serve one purpose: to make money. As you say, achieving a positive outcome requires "working with the new kid". And this kid only wants your cash.
  • + 22
 @sunday06: But still not a mountain bike.
  • + 43
 @sunday06: These sentences:
"... it just allowed me to mountain bike longer... shredding down."
"It wasn't tearing up the trail at all"

e-Bikes allow you to ride more with less pedal energy. You can cover more trail. Every time you ride a trail, you wear it out, requiring trail maintenance. If you ride 20% more each time, trails will break down 20% faster. If 10% more bikers get into the sport by buying e-Bikes, that increases trail wear: > 30% faster. I'd be comfortable with a $75 per e-Bike tax to cover additional trail maintenance and advocacy.
  • + 7
 @otto99: Is your first name Donald?
  • - 25
flag jdsusmc Plus (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:35) (Below Threshold)
 @YamahaBicycles: best response ever! Thank you for this.
  • - 28
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:37) (Below Threshold)
 @chrod: it starts with a D but you can't call me daddy
  • - 3
 delete
  • + 25
 @chrod: I respectfully question this argument. Breaking it down, all forms of use wear trails down, as does weather and gravity (rain, rocks rolling, branches falling). why target a new kind of vehicle? What about excessive breaking, riding in the rain, whatever effect Strava might have. This slippery slope leads to all trails with a user fee, regardless the use. All trails will always need to be maintained at some point, that's either through paying someone or volunteering. Reality. I'm not for or against ebikes but I'm for a healthy clear debate. Your turn.
  • + 7
 @YamahaBicycles will you still be mounting the engine in reverse on e-bikes like you do with the dirt bikes?
  • + 6
 It is marketed to the dirt bike crowd. Pre-riding the course is not allowed but they can do it with an ebike. eBike mfg's show up at the races and sell them like hot cakes!
  • + 22
 @conv3rt: True -- there's more to trail wear than just that due to bikes and e-bikes. Strava has certainly contributed some amount of increased trail wear due to sheer popularity and incentive to ride harder/faster, which wears trails more. I have less of a problem with Strava, as ultimately a rider's capability is limited by his/her own power.

If trails were uncrowded, if land use was uncontested, and trail options were vast and limitless then I'd say "bring on the e-Bikes!" But trails are precious and limited.

My concerns are:
1) e-Bikes are capable of accelerating trail wear at a rate higher than previous technological improvements, with zero planned support for increased trail advocacy and maintenance
2) e-Bikes are technically motorized vehicles which are currently prohibited on many trails
3) In many areas, especially those in the coastal US, where even acceptance of self-powered mountain bikers on trails is a delicate balance, e-Bikes may increase friction between non-bikers and bikers. (You could also argue that Strava has contributed to that effect too)

How should we treat those issues above? With increased support for trails. In places like the US, that's already hard to come by (decreasing park funding), and the "free market" can't be expected to sort that out to the world's benefit, as always. I don't expect e-Bikes to increase trail advocacy per capita, I expect a decrease, and a decrease in public perception of "mountain bikers".
  • + 19
 @YamahaBicycles: Right , Right the nice cooperate answer to try and smooth things over. Meanwhile, I am going downhill today while two E-bikes are climbing up the same hill at 15 mph . E-BIKES = recipe for disaster. It's happening already. And I couldn't thing of a better company than Yamaha to push this even further.
  • - 24
flag dubod22 (Sep 13, 2017 at 17:29) (Below Threshold)
 @otto99: I think it's the fear of the unknown that people can't grasp combined with safety in numbers. A survival instinct from million years of evolution ( or 5000 years for some).

A professional corporation ready to revolutionise the bike industry? This can only be good. Better products, QC, no changing standards every year and cheaper too.

Downvote, top right if you made it this far.
  • + 12
 @YamahaBicycles: you guys are chasing a dollar and that's it!
  • + 6
 @dubod22: Hasn't the moto industry been the poster child for 'No Standards' for quite some time?
  • + 29
 @YamahaBicycles: The best way to preserve trail access in the face of increasing eMTB popularity is to immediately ban all eMTB's from all public trails. Anything else allows the negative perceptions towards eMTB's to affect the public's opinion of real MTB riders. But I have a feeling this is not the approach you will take.
  • + 32
 @YamahaBicycles: Stick to dirtbikes, ebikes are not welcomed by the MTB community or the trails we have spent years fighting to have, build and maintain.
  • + 6
 @Three6ty: that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. However, corporations can be purpose driven and profit driven at the same time. Not all corporations are evil empires
  • + 35
 @YamahaBicycles: We are unified. eMTBs are motor vehicles.
  • - 55
flag mhoshal (Sep 13, 2017 at 18:00) (Below Threshold)
 @cmkneeland: eMTB is still MTB dumb ass its right in the title. These bike make it easier for disabled people to ride the trails with friends and not be left behind and I for one am all for that you whiny f*cks are basically shitting on all disabled people when you say this type of shit. Grow a pair and come trash talk the disabled around me and ill ficken deck you plain and simple now grow up you low life scum bags!!!
  • + 11
 @chrod: fair points. Those are real problems. I see that second point being an insurance problem for land owners or tenure holders. I know around here, that seems to be the main issue. Since the vehicle is a hybrid between a human powered and gas powered thing, it doesn't fit an existing category. I disagree that ebike = motorcycle. Put the two side by side and start riding and you'll see the difference immediately. Similar but not the same. I used to ride a lot of moto and that is a whole new level of trail damage and just a different sport altogether. Anyway the insurance policies don't know what to do so they just prohibit ebike access. Which sadly means that people poach. Ebikes are definitely another aspect of wilderness use and access that is clearly polarizing. I think given the tone on this site, supporters of ebikes are reluctant to speak up which it too bad. That makes it a one-sided conversation that will never go anywhere. Ebikes are coming. As far as I can tell by customer demand (no data). Why else would a business invest in development and growth. I'm currently neutral on the topic because I see some benefits to them. Trail building for example. Great new tool for that. Anyway, we're pretty lucky up here and probably shielded from the access issues in other places. One things for sure, the issue won't resolve itself.
  • + 58
 @YamahaBicycles: @YamahaBicycles: Brave of you to come here, props for that.

But you must think we are idiots if you think anybody believes any corporate bs about, "being aware of the issues" and, "already been working with several National sustainability groups and local land managers to help riders where we can. I'm sure Yamaha donated some money to some random organization they never expect to hear from again and I highly doubt anybody from Yamaha is going to be helping to preserve trails and repair the damage their motorbikes (that's what they are) are doing. This is for money, we know it and Yamaha knows it, I'm sure you do too in reality Drew.

Mountain biking is only half about going downhill, the other half is going up hill, via pedalling yourself with your own fitness level. Want to go faster or further? Ride more. Imagine if somebody came out with eRunning? Bionic leg attachments or something. It would completely defeat the point of running, just like this defeats the point of half of the benefit of being a cyclist.
  • + 20
 This might be the funniest PB comment of 2017.
  • + 20
 @YamahaBicycles good luck, a few of our land managers here in MN have motioned to ban e-bikes and are classifying them as motorized vehicles, which many of us support. Saw a dad on a giant e bike following his two sons riding 50cc dirt bikes on a trail in Minneapolis, MN. So clearly the demographic for these motorized mountain bikes don't see the difference and either do we. I think your companies talents would be better suited designing gear box mtbs. E mtb demand is going to start rapidly declining, much like hover boards, roller blades, and other such toys which caught lightning in a bottle for a short period of time.
  • + 27
 @YamahaBicycles: would you care to share some more info? Links to the advocacy work? Maybe some writeups of said work? Also, which groups have you been working with? A Yamaha bicycle sounds interesting.... KTM also got into bicycles.... without motors. Maybe you guys should try that route if you're interested in unification of mountain bikers and creating a meaningful message to governing bodies.
  • + 8
 @cmkneeland: Yes stop with the f*cking e-moped content unless it's a satirical video about them. Wink
  • + 15
 can ebikes just f*ck off, the fun of montain biking is that you propel the bike not some gay ass motor straped to the bottom of your bike. i mean really theres dirtbikes and then thers mountain bikes.
  • + 0
 can ebikes just f*ck off, the fun of montain biking is that you propel the bike not some gay ass motor straped to the bottom of your bike. i mean really theres dirtbikes and then thers mountain bikes.
  • + 1
 @mhoshal: what is the e in emtb mean?
  • + 15
 @mhoshal: Your the dumbass if you think even 1% of the E-Bike clientele is disabled. Iam surprised you are even on Pinkbike in the first place.
  • - 15
flag sjflow (Sep 13, 2017 at 19:02) (Below Threshold)
 "Gay"
"Bitch
"Pussy"
"Disabled."

Well, now we know how Trump fans feel about e-bikes...
  • - 19
flag mhoshal (Sep 13, 2017 at 19:04) (Below Threshold)
 @SeaLoam: come say that to my disabled buddy who rides one. Then come call me a dumbass to my face you guttless coward.
  • + 27
 Can we stop calling these things motorcycles, dirt bikes etc? Speaking as someone who rides motorcycles, we want nothing to do with these either.
  • + 13
 @mhoshal: i'm your huckleberry.
  • + 15
 @YamahaBicycles: never stood a chance... the comment section on pinkbike is brutal, and if you are a company making e-bikes its probably best to just stay away. kawasaki 4life btw!
  • + 2
 @mhoshal: You need to understand one thing...that you understand nothing. I probably asking to much of you.
  • + 4
 @bartimusprime:
Or in this case why don't we bully the "new kid" until he disappears forever?
Much better choice.
  • - 24
flag mhoshal (Sep 13, 2017 at 19:14) (Below Threshold)
 @SeaLoam: from your profile it appears you know nothing and ride nothing so eat a big ol bag o dicks buddy. Do you get your kicks trolling sites because you have no life because im pretty sure you do loser!!
  • + 46
 @mhoshal:
As a disabled veteran let me first say toss right off, you toothless Canadian hillbilly.
I don't want or need an eMTB to be able to enjoy trails in my condition, nor so I want one.
Sincerely,
- all real bikers
  • + 10
 @sunday06:
So it compensates for a lack of *something* in a rider that was preventing a longer riding day (stamina), and will make it more likely to bonk unexpectedly.
Gotcha.
  • - 15
flag mhoshal (Sep 13, 2017 at 19:19) (Below Threshold)
 @togood2die: well you're not the only disabled person out there so don't try and speak for all of them as for calling me a toothless hillbilly lmao thats just a typical Yankee!!
  • - 22
flag mhoshal (Sep 13, 2017 at 19:22) (Below Threshold)
 @togood2die: by the way your shitty 650 is basically an ebike anyway lmao don't women ride 650's get a real bike!!!
  • + 16
 @mhoshal: Gutless coward definitition= Someone that threatens someone over the computer and promotes E-Bikes.
  • - 23
flag mhoshal (Sep 13, 2017 at 19:26) (Below Threshold)
 @SeaLoam: Troll= someone who comes on a bike site has absolutely nothing in their profile and sits there bashing disabled people who actually ride!! Get a life you f*cken loser!!!
  • + 24
 @mhoshal: Well, Well So you PM me a bunch of lame ass insults to make your self feel cool. Hope it works. And I hope you finally get you cool, rad awesome Ebike soon so you can keep up with every one else. And you insulting me on private message , I couldn't think of anything more pathetic and truly lame. Enjoy yourself.
  • + 17
 @IluvRIDING: The difference between an E-MTB and a motor cycle(Powered by internal combustion or electricity) is VERY apparent when you are riding them.

However, an E-MTB does not have a throttle, it provides assistance to the rider while they are PEDALING. The rider is still proving the majority of the power to the bike and is fairly worked after a ride, what really changes is the average speed and distance covered over the average ride. There are a few people who can really make use of E-MTB's such as but not limited to:
*Trail builders: allows them to get in and out of the work area more quickly with more tools to get more done.
*Older riders: Some old bastards are crazy strong and have wicked bike handling skills, however these people can sometimes have cardiovascular problems that prevent them from getting into the trails they really want to be on.
*Commuters: There are a bunch of people who live 15-20 km from work, an e bike can be the dfference between them riding or driving. I'm all for lower emissions and less congested road ways.
*Asthmatics: A good friend of mine has REALLY gnarly asthma but is otherwise super fit, he can descend for days at a time without any issue on any difficult trail. He can climb maybe 100m before he has to turn arround because he cant breathe an E-MTB would allow him to climb and descent with regular folk who aren't being murdered by their own lungs.

I would really really recommend you try one before you knock it. They have allowed for for more trail work to happen on my local trail network this year then in years previous.
  • + 10
 @mhoshal: You speak like true poet ,be proud of yourself. Truelly classy. Pretty much the shit I scraped off my tire today has more value than any point of view you might have. And like all the stuff you said in your stalker-like Private message you sent , WORTHLESS. Oh yeah , and you probably also noticed that I have not said one negative thing on Pinkbike about anyone until seeing your crap.
  • - 6
flag multialxndr (Sep 13, 2017 at 20:02) (Below Threshold)
 @scott-townes: get some clubs together and build your own tracks don't expect access to existing tracks. That's what people have done in other countries muricans just lazy McDonald's types
  • + 16
 @conv3rt: if these were just for those who could otherwise not ride nobody would have a problem with them. They do make sense for that purpose but that market is so small it's clearly not why they are being made. It's to "grow the sport" I.e sell more units with a blind short-term outlook and zero regard for the future of the trail access issues. There are shops near me that I will not even step into for chain lube anymore as they are pushing these bikes in our area knowing full well there is not a single legal trail for them to ride on. Similarly, the list of bike companies that I will never buy one of their frames seems to be growing daily. I'm just one guy but I know there are others who will also vote with their wallets.

Companies who want hardcore riders to support them have got to take a stand against these bikes in the USA to differentiate themselves from the other soulless corporations willing to risk our entire sport to attract people who don't like to pay their dues to get in good enough shape, break a sweat, and challenge themselves to improve enough to ride without a motor.
  • + 9
 @tsn73: yep. I'll be pedalling hard as long as my body permits. I refrain from shuttling cause I get a kick out of the grind and sweat. My point about demand was that I think people ARE voting with their wallets. I.e. Buying ebikes. I keep hearing growth in European markets etc. I put my free time back into the trails when I can and hope access is never threatened around these parts or anywhere else. Anyways I'm all about solutions and not complaining. I think getting organized, informed and being responsible and respectful is the way to go about solving this. I hope the people who decide this kind of thing at land access levels have a similar attitude towards this issue. Otherwise it'll be a shitfight where people with decision making power will use it and the rest of us will suffer.
  • + 17
 Wow, peeeeenkbike is reeeelly goin for it. Big ol middle finger to its core users-whom made it what it is.
  • + 1
 @chrod: leave donald alone, he's too busy takn it up the rear from pelosi and schumer while ryan snd mcconnel clap like seals.
  • + 15
 @YamahaBicycles: we don't want a bunch of fat f*cking motor bike douche bags on our trails.
  • + 0
 @Aviation23: "triggered"
  • + 13
 @scott-townes: agreed. e-bike riders, and by extension, all bike riders, are going to learn that there are large, powerful conservation groups that rank us barely above baby seal killers on the social hierarchy. This could be the end of the Golden Age of mountain biking.
  • + 9
 @YamahaBicycles: Yamaha-thanks for chiming in. I would like to ask how e-bike access will be different than off road motorcycle access, which is reduced every year, despite what you believe you have done to stop that.
  • + 12
 @YamahaBicycles: Would love to know more about how you, a motorcycle company starting to product Electric Pedal Assist Motorcycles, intends to get Mountain Bikers to unify? We can take care of ourselves thank you very much and have been doing for years. When you start producing actual Mountain Bikes, YOU can be involved in the discussion. In the mean time, take your nice friendly corporate waffle and stick it.
  • + 1
 @retswen: define "have to"
  • - 5
flag Dustfarter (Sep 13, 2017 at 22:37) (Below Threshold)
 @bmoore34: Clearly you've never ridden one. Pedal assisted bicycle riding is nothing like riding a motor cycle.
To call it a motor bike is a closed minded knee jerk reaction based on fear and an unwillingness to accept something new. That is nothing new to human nature though.
With that mindset even within the mtb community let alone the people against regular mtb's I predict issues for sure.
  • - 2
 @YamahaBicycles: it's nice to see a company showing concern for how their product might impact communities. And of course you want access to be as open as much as possible. When it comes down to it, it matters not what tool you use for the job, if done irresponsibly you'll be causing problems. Emtbs have their place,if you don't like em don't get one. And I don't believe they're going to turn trails into moon dust the way a dirt bike can. I personally like the idea of the miles one could cover on one, my local riding is all ATV, dirt bike,and forest roads anyway, it'd be great tool for my area. And if they get people out who are otherwise unable that's cool too. People need to stop whining, many of em will be riding one in the years to come anyhow...ok let the hater begin.
  • + 5
 @YamahaBicycles: time to remember./go back to the glory days of yamaha bicycles.............


www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCmoWO3BXTA

1974 gold cup.
so good.
  • + 4
 @Dustfarter: How do you police the use of a pedal assist ebike and a KTM edirtbike with more torque than a 125cc dirtbike?
  • + 3
 If any of the big companies come into mtb, car companies also, the current mtb brands are out.
  • + 0
 well if it is below 300w and doesn't have a throttle it is by definition a bicycle and not a motorbike in many countries
  • + 13
 @YamahaBicycles: "The more that mountain bikers can unify, the better opportunity we have to create a meaningful message to governing bodies."

But you are not making mountain bikes. You are making electric motor bikes with token pedals attached.
  • + 12
 @YamahaBicycles: "Today's electric powered bike has pedals because they created a legal loophole that allowed manufacturers to successfully lobby that they were power-assisted bicycles, not motorbikes, and thus dodge complicated and expensive safety regulations, as well as licensing and insurance requirements that motorcycles and motor scooters must comply with for highway use."

Comments?
  • + 11
 @aaronfpeet: haha love it. Emtb is the bastard love child of MTB and MX, yet neither parent wants to take responsibility for the offspring. Despite 4/5+ years of the corporate media that surrounds mtb trying to legitamise the bastard.
  • + 14
 @jrocksdh: Pink Bike sold out years ago when they stopped impartial product reviews and only focussed on the brands that spend serious advertising coin with them. What we are left with is a media gun for hire, willing to promote any idea or belief if they have enough dollars. Not surprised theyre riding the emtb buck for as much as they can wring out of it.
  • - 13
flag deadmeat25 (Sep 14, 2017 at 3:08) (Below Threshold)
 @Bustacrimes: If you don't like it you can always f*ck off mate feel free.
  • + 7
 @stefanfresh: already happened. Santa Cruz is owned by Pon Group. Pon are owned by Derbi. Derbi make motorbikes and scooters. As the future for petrol motors becomes increasingly cloudy, its no surprise these brands diversify. Its a shame they will bring their money hungry share holders with them, although in reality there are already some pretty ethically unsound companies making bikes. Ellesworth. As for the marketing waffle of a large non MTB company advising us how ¨we can all just get along¨ - excuse me if i dont drink that particular koolaid.
  • + 4
 It was aliens, there I said it.
  • + 16
 @YamahaBicycles: C'mon guys, who are you trying to kid here? The rules of trail access in most parts of our country clearly state "No MOTORIZED VEHICLE access". This is done with signage in most places. So yeah... let's put a great big Yamaha logo on the motor/transmission casing of our "mountain bikes" and then try and say that they're no different than non motorized bikes! Wow You guys must have some seriously masterful corporate speak psychological BS shovelers as negotiators on this one. If it weren't so sad watching all you companies trying to completely ruin a "human powered" sport it would be comical. It's the real life equivalent of Bill Murray's character in Caddy Shack throwing his little C-4 explosive animal sculptures down into the groundhog's holes. Pretending to be innocent little creatures when in fact the only intention is to "blow the whole thing to hell." Stay our of our sport please.
  • + 0
 @YamahaBicycles: These motors are new but they seem already outdated. You should push the boundaries and make a cylindrical engine to insert in the seat tube and a cylindrical battery to insert in the downtube or even together with the engine in the seatube. That would be great to adapt into existing DH bikes so we could all do downhill without shuttles ;-)
  • + 4
 @YamahaBicycles: You have huge balls Drew posting that response.
  • + 26
 Hello Pinkbike, I am the Industry representative for Bosch, Yamaha and other ebike motor manufactures. We have taken your comments on board, and have decided to withdraw from the ebike market, and let the unfit struggle uphill, and not take their easy sucker money. Instead, we have decided to create motors for kayaks instead so you don't have to paddle, and we even have motors planned for rock climbing, so you don't actually have to climb. Hopefully those two communities won't react with the same vitriol as mtb'ers have, and those two communities will roll over and play dead for us like we'd like.
  • - 6
flag deadmeat25 (Sep 14, 2017 at 4:25) (Below Threshold)
 @unconvinced: That's embarrassing and cringey.
  • - 8
flag NoskillNotalent (Sep 14, 2017 at 5:14) (Below Threshold)
 @otto99: yeah,and at the same time posting a stupid anti ebike message that i've seen 100 times before to get some upvotes from the other children.They need that because mommy and daddy probably didn't give them enough affection as a child.
  • + 3
 @NoskillNotalent: says a guy that only comes to pinkbike to comment on other peoples comments.
  • - 7
flag Stampers (Sep 14, 2017 at 5:35) (Below Threshold)
 Down voting people because they have a different viewpoint on emtb (or whatever you want to call it) seems an a lot like the snowflakes on college campuses crying for their safe space.

Better to adapt to change than fight it. The best way to defeat an enemy is to make them your friend!
  • + 10
 Pinkbike quit selling your soul to the motorbike industry
  • - 7
flag mgolder (Sep 14, 2017 at 5:52) (Below Threshold)
 @IluvRIDING: You seem to not have one clue about how e-bikes actually work do you. Like most here who like to mouth off you believe they are solely powered by a motor.

They. Are. Not.

If you don't pedal, they literally go nowhere, they require manpower in order to move. The assist level can even be turned off completely and you can even still ride it. If you turn the engine off on a motorbike you can't ride it at all.

The arguments against them are so flawed it is laughable.
  • + 3
 @YamahaBicycles: Helping ebike riders? Or mountain bikers?
  • + 4
 @retswen: call it PinkE Bike
  • + 8
 @chrod: No signs. eBikes should be illegal on trails period. The cost of signs is a burden on taxpayers.
  • + 7
 @trail1rider: If this is true, I suspect Yamaha's intent with this is to push the power envelope of the E-Bike. Because...the faster you can pre-ride a course the better prepared you will be come race time. Not only that but...this is the mindset of moto manufacturers. As their bikes evolve they get faster.

If Yamaha pushes the power envelope on these bikes...soon bicycle manufacturers are going to be forced to answer back. Next thing you know, E-Bikes are going to be nothing more than E-dirtbikes with pedals...and that is going to cause a major problem with trail access...especially as inexperienced cyclists start to hurt themselves or other trail users.

Standards need to be defined and lines need to be drawn otherwise it is going to ruin it for the masses.

Pinkbike had this article on their site months ago...With Yamaha, a motor sports company, entering the game...sounds like this is how E-Bikes could be evolving...which isn't good...but that is only my opinion.

www.pinkbike.com/news/history-and-deception-opinion.html
  • + 14
 @YamahaBicycles: Hi YamahaBicycles (actually is YamahaMotorbikes), welcome to the lion's den Big Grin
First and foremost, this has nothing to do with trail access restrictions, this is about you promoting degeneracy.
All sports require a certain level of fitness. If you don't have a certain level of fitness, you don't deserve to enjoy the sport, period. Shredding trails is not a constitutional right, it's not something everyone's entitled to regardless of how slow, fat or unfit they are. That's my meaningfull message to everyone.
  • + 3
 @YamahaBicycles: The message should be "human powered access to backcountry locations", drop the "ebikes are bikes too" and we can get on the same page!
  • + 3
 Well....that sure escalated quickly.
  • + 3
 @mgolder: maybe in the U.K. and Europe the arguments are laughable. Not so in California. We are losing access to trails all over the place as equestrians and hikers who are much more organized and politically connected already hate mountain bikers (without motors) with a passion.

I only moved here 3 years ago from BC, Canada and it has been a real eye opener.
  • + 2
 @chasejj: My exact thought. Yeah, they are a bit oblivious and definitely blinded by the sight of $$$$$ at the end of this road. True lack of thought and/or foresight @YamahaBicycles
  • + 8
 @YamahaBicycles: @YamahaBicycles: Your products may be great, but they're not mountain bikes! The industry needs to get a grip and realize that most mountain bikers ride their bikes to have fun, get/keep fit, and get to wild and beautiful places - we do not want or need a motor to complicate this simple, wonderful relationship. Ebikes may well have a place, but it should not be where mountain bikers go, under their own steam.
  • - 9
flag NoskillNotalent (Sep 14, 2017 at 7:49) (Below Threshold)
 @brncr6: At least i know what i'm talking about,because i tried one.And i loved it.If you can't handle that,go to bed i crie yourself to sleep.
  • + 5
 @chrod: Sorry, math nerd here. 10% of users increasing wear by 20% is actually an increase of trail wear of 2%, not 30%.
  • + 2
 @NoskillNotalent: i dont care if you liked it or not that is up to you what you like or dislike, still the E in eMTB stands for Electric and that means at some point it is being powered by a electric motor. That is why pepole are upset.
There is a motor plain and simple.
  • + 4
 @excavator666: can someone use the ebike crank area / bolts for a internal gear box instead of a motor?
  • - 7
flag mgolder (Sep 14, 2017 at 8:21) (Below Threshold)
 @brncr6: No. You don't get it. They are never powered by the assist motor. They are powered by pedalling. No pedal, no electric assistance. Very simple.

The only time any electricity can get involved is if the bike is powered by a human riding it like a regular bike. Otherwise, it won't move an inch.
  • + 2
 jayzus. holy butthurt. i'll happily try one. would help trailwork build,maintenance and repair a little easier. two wheels on dirt? sign me up.
  • + 10
 @brncr6: Motorcycle company makes a motorcycle and calls it bicycle with a motor....
  • + 9
 @YamahaBicycles: Hey, love your motos and quads! Big fan of the YFZ450 but please stay the f*ck away from a sport focused around fitness

Yours Truly
Triggered Mountain Biker
  • + 6
 @bikeordie2772: moto is all about fitness too. just sayin. it's work ridin' my moto.
  • + 1
 @mgolder: until you modify it...
  • + 2
 @fullbug: yah I realized that after I said it...
  • + 1
 @bikeordie2772: it's all good fun work. amirite?
  • + 4
 @mgolder: never said it could be ridden on epower only i understand the pedal assistance the emotor gives the rider.
Ive rode one at seaotter. Im just saying there is a emotor on the mountain bike.
And that is what people are up in arms about. I live in California and trail access here is a very touchy subject and this is being seen as an emtb with and electric motor on it regardless if it is just pedal assist. Do i want to lose trail access because of an emtb?? Hell no i dont.
  • - 2
 @brncr6: Fair enough,but here in Europe they are limited at 250W.If you add that to my power you still wont get the power that guys like Absalon put out.So i really doubt they will destroy the trails.That said,i've seen guys with Ebikes who had 2000W,and i'm not a fan either to share trails with them.But a 250W assisted bike wont set the world on fire.
  • - 1
 @bikingthomas: If being able to do that simple arithmetic makes you a "math nerd", we are *all* in trouble!
  • + 3
 @NoskillNotalent: really easy to get the full output and remove the 250W limit unfortunately Frown
  • - 7
flag FarmerJohn (Sep 14, 2017 at 9:05) (Below Threshold)
 @Extremmist: have you ridden and eMTB before? From my experience, they require a solid base of fitness if you want to shred. In fact, due to the overall weight of a full suspension eMTB I have found that I get more of an upper body work out than with my analog bike
  • + 1
 @BCDragon: correction needs to be made to your statement- Most North American mountain bikers...
I say this because of the amount of eMTB being sold in the Europe is absolutely mind boggling. 3rd year in a row of ebikes dominating the show floor at Eurobike. I went down to VDS for the WC ahead of Eurobike this year and was blown away with how many eMTB that were out being used at various trails along the drive. Even at VDS, there was a large amount of ebikes on the grounds of the event
  • + 6
 Is Pinkbike Trolling their own readers?!?!? If so, it appears they were remarkably successful Wink
  • + 5
 @cmkneeland: I wish Pinkbike would listen to its readership. We don't want Ebike coverage!
  • - 4
flag deadmeat25 (Sep 14, 2017 at 9:42) (Below Threshold)
 @tsn73: So complain to your f*cking retarded lawmakers and stop turning on people that just want to ride a f*cking bike.
  • - 4
flag gollub01 (Sep 14, 2017 at 9:46) (Below Threshold)
 Congrats Yamaha! I'd love something to match my YZ250's!! Can't wait to see what you come up with. Options are great for everyone and people will get over the land use issue soon enough. Don't listen to any of the PB naysayers. They are just afraid they might actually improve and now have zero excuses for being slow! This is the future and I welcome it. Brappppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp aaaaaaaaapppppppppp
  • + 3
 @YamahaBicycles: What makes you think we want to work with you?STAY OFF OUR TRAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • + 10
 @deadmeat25: Nobody prevents you from riding a bike, we just want to prevent you from riding an electric moped and calling yourself a cyclist.
  • + 6
 I live and ride in a dense city. The city parks are massive and have excellent singletrack, more than enough to do a complete ride, including drops, jumps and gnar. But these parks also have dog walkers, hikers, runner and parents pushing baby carriages. Motorcycles becoming common will hurt already strained relations. Riders will be able to go much faster than their skill and fitness level can handle.

ebikes (motorcycles) are already fast and will continue to get faster and lighter. These mixed use trails are not a good place for motorcycles.
  • + 4
 @Leethal-1: pink bike needs to make money, this is where there advertising dollars come from. There's nothing special about pink bike and I'm sure another competitor can full the void they are creating by catering to their ad revenue not their user. We want a mtb dedicated site don't ruin your brand by publishing this crap!
  • - 5
flag Duderz7 (Sep 14, 2017 at 10:30) (Below Threshold)
 @Extremmist: sooo, when your kids have reached a level of 50 milers are nothing and you can barely ride 5or 10 due to health or fitness. You'll stop spending time with your family? Careful you may someday eat your words.
  • + 2
 @High-Life: signs signs everywhere there's signs blocking up the single track jacking up my lines
  • - 5
flag nohit45 (Sep 14, 2017 at 10:40) (Below Threshold)
 @bman33: You clown. Read the f*cking article before to post some shit on here. The first one advocates e-bikes if they are responsible and the second article has ZERO mention of ebikes. Dipshit. Stopped being fleeced by the PB idiots about ebikes threatening trail access, because old guys with eletric help aren't the problem, the government is.
  • + 6
 @nohit45: I beg your pardon for posting the incorrect links. You must feel like a big man name calling people from a keyboard warrior perspective. I have much more respect for you now.

As from a local perspective in my area, can you please provide detailed notes on the land access meetings you have attended? Can you provide details notes on Sierra Club and Equestrian perspective (remember, my local trails) on multi use trails and their view on MTBs? Can you please provide notes on the insults, trail booby trapping and overall bike bans proposed by non-bike riders in Colorado? Seriously, all of us here are eager to hear you enlightened perspective. I mean, someone calling another 'Dipshit' surely is at an academic level higher than most of us.

As for the articles, I again apologies for posting the wrong ones. Below are a few with some highlighted quotes for you:

www.coloradoan.com/story/news/local/colorado/2017/08/06/e-bikes-gain-popularity-colorado-land-managers-ponder-future/543033001 --- as a note, this one is a debate /forum with several land managers chiming in.

""As it stands, public-land managers in the Roaring Fork Valley regard e-bikes as motorized vehicles. They are banned on routes where motorized uses are prohibited. Glenwood Springs is easing its ban on city trails during the Grand Avenue Bridge closure that starts Aug. 14. The Roaring Fork Transportation Authority board of directors will consider in August a request by the Colorado Department of Transportation to open the Rio Grande Trail between Glenwood Springs and Carbondale during the 95 days the new bridge is under construction this fall."


www.gjsentinel.com/news/articles/ebike-trend-hits-roadblock-on-local-trails - Reducing and or pulling funding...

"Local commission leaders fretted that GOCO might deny funding for trails, or even worse, force the community to pay back the millions of dollars already invested in the cement path that extends from Palisade to Fruita."

Here is a link for a Google search for hiker, biker conflicts in Colorado. While not a comprehensive list, you can the general gist of the attitude. This is just for hikers, equestrian are a whole different (better funded) group to deal with

www.google.com/search?biw=1330&bih=648&q=hiker+%2C+mountain+bike+trail+conflicts%2C+colorado&oq=hiker+%2C+mountain+bike+trail+conflicts%2C+colorado&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160k1.16724.17793.0.18057.10.8.0.0.0.0.214.762.0j2j2.4.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..6.4.760.RXdTgmf3XUY

So please, tell me again about 1) my local trail access issues (looks like you live in Nevada, I am in Colorado) & 2) Tell me just how I am being "fleeced by the PB idiots about ebikes threatening trail acces...." I welcome you to come on over to Colorado and maybe you can call everyone in my riding groups or locals how we are 'Dipshits' because we are validly concerned about trail access in the hostile environment we live even WITHOUT ebikes, much less as they become more prevalent. I am sure you are a big enough man to do this in person right?
  • + 4
 @bartimusprime: it is like saying that coca-cola & co are there to take care about your healthy.
  • + 3
 @excavator666: I agree, there isn't much more room for improvement in traditional derailleurs and cassettes aside form OOOHHHHH, 13 SPEEDS for the low price of your first born child.

Gear boxes have so much potential, I'm excited about them.
  • + 1
 @stacykohut: A great time to be a kid! Those Yamaha bikes probably fired up a few early mountain bike builders with ideas.
  • + 6
 @Dustfarter: As much as I'd like to agree with you ...Let me ask you :

Does it have a motor ? YES
Is it a bike ? YES

Therefore intelligent beings would easily conclude that it is a MOTOR BIKE...Now, closed minded jerks may have a hard time wrapping their heads around that concept ;-)
  • + 7
 Fuck Emtb!!
  • + 1
 whole lotta brick tamland goin on here.
  • - 4
flag nohit45 (Sep 14, 2017 at 15:14) (Below Threshold)
 @bman33: You still aren't posting anything that alludes to ebikes threatening YOUR access to trails, only perhaps them threatening your pride.

"Eighty percent of our customer base is gray-haired,”

“It’s very easy to see — they’re going faster uphill than most people,” Tennenbaum said. “It’s becoming more of an issue.” (yet fails to mention exactly what that issue is!)

"A lot of mountain bike purists criticize use of e-bikes to climb a trail. Pritchard said when cyclists are huffing and puffing their way up a climb, it strikes some of them as cheating when they encounter an e-biker covering the same ground quicker and easier. “There’s just something weird that goes on in your brain,” he said."

Look, hikers, the horse folks, and the government trail nazis aren't singling out ebikers, they are targeting everyone on a bike. eBikes are banned from most trails because they are motorized. The clowns building illegal trails and the industry as a whole celebrating the guys that drift every berm and ride like asses are the reason your trails are threatened.
  • + 2
 @nohit45: you are correct. Zero threat here. Who am I to question the authority of a keyboard warrior three states away from me with regards to issues i and my local riders experience. Such foolishness of me. Have a great time on your ebike
  • + 1
 @bikingthomas: You are correct.
  • - 4
flag cryingfoot (Sep 14, 2017 at 19:01) (Below Threshold)
 @tuckershreds: it's your opinion . But i Love e bike. I ride mtb for 15 years. I own a yeti sb5 turqu and many more bikes. E mtb is the facebook of mtb. It Will brings friends together. I also works my ass on the trail. And what destroy the trails are mostly the rain and brakes. E mtb open so many options for trails. You should be blind To not saw it. E bike aren't a agressor To mtb but a évolution. Like a horse To a car. I speak french, so i hope it make sense.
  • + 5
 @cryingfoot: it makes perfect sense. Ebiking is the equivelent of posting pictures of yourself being a moron online.

Sell your sb5, you're not a MTB rider anymore, your an ebiker now.

It's not an evolution, that's like saying a trolling motor is the evolution of canoeing.

Nothing was lost in translation here either.
  • - 2
 @Kiwi19: A pedal assist bike wont go highway speeds, the motor stops helping at 20 mph/ 30 kmh. The user provides most of the power that moves the bike forward and there is no throttle. Go ride one its fairly eye opening A slow rider on an e bike is still slower then a fast guy on a standard bike..
  • + 5
 @ajax-ripper:

I'm an asthmatic who commutes 12 miles a day and ride my MTB when I can.

I did fold and buy a commuter bike - It's a 7 year old road bike.

I just lift up my skirt, grab my inhaler and ride my bike. It's not hard.
  • - 1
 This is totally a emtb. Under the code created by imba and another trail coalition, it states that it has to be activated by pedal assist and not a throttel to be legal. Anything that is electric and not pedal assist is definently a motorbike and is on the opposite side of the spectrum from a ebike. Totally different @bmoore34:
  • + 1
 @ClaytonMarkin: Exactly dude! Like you say, what's next even after 13 speed cassettes... something ridiculous like a bike that powers itself... maybe they'll call them E-MTB's... oh wait :/

Pinion and Effigear are already producing amazing products. Currently the only real drawback are weight and grip-shifts. (Effigear actually offer a modified SRAM trigger shift option)

Imagine what they'll be like when they're light weight with electric shifting!
  • + 1
 @whitebullit:

Kawasaki's getting ready to build emtb's too! 4life.
  • + 2
 @codypup:

Just my .02, but I would say 1.pollution, 2.noise . Would be major trail closures. At least in my area for all off road vehicles.
  • + 1
 @YamahaBicycles: Deltabox for my next frame please ... ????????
  • - 1
 @bman33: did you even read these articles? Absolutely no mention of ebike related issues, also says the park Rangers are on ebikes. All about illegal building and the usual tree hugging opponents to biking.
  • + 0
 @fullbug: More bums in seats! I'll do a extra few days trail work to support people that wouldn't be riding normally due to bike choice, age or illnesses. If we have more trails in areas it would spread the load more for sure. Be positive guys! Lets grow with this sport and support passions. Have ebike zones and trails lets just all get along. I'm with you mate. These negative comments are not very moutainbiker of you sure rip the piss like we do with wheel size but this is ridiculous..
  • - 1
 @bmoore34: I'm all for Ebikes. I have some 76 year old friends that ebikes make a lot morew trails rideable for. And on top of that ebikes are a straight up blast to ride. So I hope Yamaha does get more trails accessible for ebikes
  • - 2
 @Three6ty: And I hope they build a badass ebike so I can give them my dollars!
  • - 1
 @JackSB: I disagree so I guess were not unified lol
  • + 4
 @nohit45: we have enough access problems, and putting novice riders on motorbikes creates more animosity on the trails-- yes we have already experienced this problem in my area
  • + 2
 @Duderz7: Sure; when I became much fitter than my father and our riding styles started to differ substantially, I started riding on my own too.
Spending time with your family doesn't mean that you have to do everything together, I don't take him to my MMA trainings either if I know he'd probably get a heart attack after 5 minutes.
  • + 3
 Nothing like E-bikes to change cyclists to motorcyclists, and then eventually upgrade to more powerful e-bikes a.k.a motorcycles (eg. Yamaha 125, 250, 300, 500, etc...) My point is people who have e-bikes commute by car.
  • + 1
 @dfiler: They stop helping at under 20mph, what the f*ck are you talking about?
  • + 2
 @Intensevp: Yamaha sells Motorbikes. They want to sell you stuff. They dont give a ratsass about access neither do they have the leverage to do something about it. A corp is never genuine. But I would buy a superlight electric street bike built with good dh components.THATS where the gold is and thats where Yamaha lacks total conceptuality and the parts shelves. They know how to bend and weld waterpipe and make cheap plastic covers in blue an white.

Yamahas engine engineering, which is very advanced, is not involved.
  • + 1
 Are you saying we are heading for YZE'S or YZDH?
If they have a powerband and a grip shift actuator I will buy one!!! @wakaba:
  • + 2
 @tuckershreds: hahaha, lol lol! I ride motocross bikes (Honda) and will be buying one of these eBikes as soon as they become available. I'm also looking forward to riding it on many trails in MN with a big smile on my face and if I see you on the trail, my bet is that I won't be the only one (so, go suck eggs).
  • + 313
 Is this the kind of crap that the Pinkbike audience wants to read about or be concerned with? ........I have a feeling it's a widespread "HELLL NO!!!!"

I have nothing against eMTB other than the possibility of it conflicting with the years of painstaking hard work that has gone into gaining trail access to public lands for us mountain bikers here in the US.

These are not "mountain bikes" in the same sense that I would guess most of us enjoy this sport so passionately and got into it in the first place. YES they have pedals, so they blur the lines between a motorcycle and a bicycle. But they are MOTORCYCLES none the less, and frankly I think this audience could say "they're not for me"

I would also guess that the folks at Pinkbike are peppering in these articles and testing the waters to see how the audience responds. Because after all, eMTB is getting very big and there is the possibility of massive amounts of advertising dollars to be had for them.

LET'S VOTE NOW AND TELL PINKBIKE IF THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO SEE ON THIS SITE ONCE AND FOR ALL

UPVOTE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE "eMTB" TAKING OVER PINKBIKE!!!
  • + 16
 While I agree that an E-MTB is a motorcycle, I do still want to see news on them here. Especially anything related to North American trail access. Whether we like them or not, we're going to have to learn to manage these things over the next 5-10 years.
  • + 25
 @tlilly: While I can't dispute your logic, I really don't want to continue to be bombarded with ebike info. However, as you alluded to, forewarned is forearmed.
  • + 14
 @tlilly: If more eMTBs would lead to less trail acces for the real thing (MTB)....then "HELLL NOOO!!!!!"
  • + 12
 @tlilly: agreed, don't know why the neg props for your comment. these things are a spawn of mtn bikes, you can't put lipstick on a pig and call it something else. put an e-bike next to a mtn bike and ask a hiker or horse rider and they wouldn't be able to tell the difference except if one was blue and the other red. these are going to affect our trail access and future, so we do need to stay informed on whats going on in the industry.
  • - 23
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:27) (Below Threshold)
 @Losifer: you do realize nobody forced you to click on the article and read it?
  • - 25
flag madm3chanic (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:38) (Below Threshold)
 you sound like a butt-hurt whinger who just had his strava record destroyed by someone on an ebike. get over it bro
  • + 6
 I don't feel sorry for this stance but understand. Dirt bikes lost this fight in many places even with the hard support of the AMA. I'm a ex dirt biker and switched to mtb's to gain trail access and now the tree huggers are pounding their drums again. I hate those fu@kers.
  • + 18
 Problem is the big MTB companies jumping on the e- bike band wagon basically setting the stage for these motorcycle companies to follow the $$$ .If anyone really cares you boycott the shit out of the big MTB companies that have E-bikes. Otherwise, you are just condoning it. Sorry but it's true.
  • - 4
flag rewob (Sep 13, 2017 at 19:04) (Below Threshold)
 Not a motorbike. Yes I want to see them here for now.
  • - 13
flag dubod22 (Sep 13, 2017 at 19:42) (Below Threshold)
 Do you ski? If you do, do you use a ski-lift? If you use a ski lift, why? Why not hike up? An eBike is the equivalent of a ski lift. It opens up access, for good and bad, to people who want life a little easier on the way up.

It might result in more trails being opened up and stricter policing of people riding like knobs.

If you like your backcountry, then fine, that's cool too.
  • + 31
 @dubod22: no, a bike lift is the equivalent of a ski lift. There are downhill skis, and xc skis. I wouldn't climb on dh ski, or go down on xc skis. E bikes are the equivalent of snowmobiles using ski trails. They do it, they ruin it, we don't like it.
  • - 5
flag dubod22 (Sep 13, 2017 at 21:11) (Below Threshold)
 @YouHadMeAtDrugs: I think comparing a snowmobile to an ebike is a bit far fetched. You still have to pedal the thing and we're not taking highspeed here. I used the comparison of skiing over a bike lifts because chair lifts are generally used for gravity orientated riders (DH/Bikepark) whereas regular trails are more comparable to the blues/greens/reds that regular people would ride.

How does an eBike ruin things? Do you mean physically? I guess the extra weight on the soil could be detrimental. Or do you mean they ruin it like the naughty kid who ruins a birthday party?

Anyway, you'll get upvoted. Ill get downvoted. The world keeps turning.
  • + 2
 @dubod22: The only reason you get down voted is because you clearly have no idea what you're posting about. Just stop and educate yourself on trail access issues in the U.S. if you want to post an opinion about it.
  • + 2
 @scott-townes: But Pinkbike is more than the US. eBikes are more than the US. I know in America the news tends to internalise everything but the world functions outside of the US too.

Pinkbike is a global community as is the bike community. The bike community needs to move forward as one and not make stupid divisions about what you ride. Too much judgement is placed on what someone rides without asking why. Someone on a eBike could have respiratory or cardiovascular problems, arthritis or old injuries from riding.

Do you want to deny someone riding because they 'shouldn't'?

I think what's immediately obvious in this topic is the discrimination many MTBers have. It doesn't really surprise me as people voted for Trump and voted for Brexit so being introverted seems to be the theme over the last year.
  • + 7
 @dubod22: e-Bikes aren't marketed to the 1% of cases you mention (people with health problems, injuries, etc) And in nearly all those cases, those people who you believe would buy and ride and e-Bike could (and probably should) buy a regular bike and ride AT their fitness level to improve. I'd hate to see people with injuries go too fast or too far away on a eMoped and end up further injured or stranded.

Examples of people who ride with injuries and physical handicaps:
- A one-legged mountain bike racer: www.si.com/edge/2016/05/04/salinas-california-kc-fontes-one-legged-mountain-biker
- And an entire amputee MTB site: www.mtb-amputee.com/main_page.htm

e-Bikes are marketed at a crowd who share these commonalities:
- Are willing to spend a few thousand dollars, similar to a mid to high-performance MTB
- Want to ride farther and/or steeper terrain than they *desire* to pedal on their own

The minor few % in eBike companies' crosshairs are people with significant limitations, short-range adventurers, and trail builders.
  • + 11
 pinkmotorbike.com

If your legs are limp enough to justify motoring your PinkBike, we are sorry for you and you will be redirected to what you're looking for in a few seconds , if redirection doesn't work, please click here.
  • + 11
 @dubod22: "Someone on a eBike could have respiratory or cardiovascular problems, arthritis or old injuries from riding. "

True, but they could just as easily ride a 50cc pit bike or a real electric motorbike, I have no problem if they ride a gasoline motor bike or an electric one but they must ride them on MOTOR bike trails.
  • - 4
flag Stampers (Sep 14, 2017 at 5:40) (Below Threshold)
 @YouHadMeAtDrugs: emtb don't ruin the trails... that's Sierra Club talk. Do they threaten trail access?...maybe, in North America. But they are no more impactful to trails in terms of wear and tear than regular Mtb.
  • + 9
 @dubod22: a couple of thoughts.

It looks like around 42% of unique page hits daily come from the US with another 18% from Canada - I think you will see that most of the eBike vitriol comes from North America so it makes a lot of sense that the comments are dominated by people who want nothing to do with these things. In fact, I bet that Pinkbike could tell you what the percentage of comment and content contribution is that comes from North America and that it would be higher than the 60% you see here.

There is definitely a sense of NIMBY here from outsiders looking in but it may be justified. The community has struggled for its place in the outdoors and truly not gotten very far by the standards of availability of open space versus actual access. To then have a motorized vehicle (intentionally inflammatory but grammatically correct) attempt to slide in to hard earned access as a pedal bike is akin to the parenting behavior of the cuckoo.

Please don't assume this is a single political side and associate those of us who think electric assist bikes should be treated as a different class of off road recreation with the likes of Trump or Brexit voters or with being snowflakes or whatever you feel is most derogatory. None of those things are relevant to this discussion.
  • + 4
 Are you kidding me? Look at all the comments and clicks this is generating. PB loves this.
  • + 2
 The best thing we can do is not click on the article.
  • + 4
 Pink bike is ruing there brand by chasing this ad revenue, short term they make a good paycheck long term they won't be seen as the authority on product reviews, there are plenty of MTB only website that would be glad to take their mantle! And creating a block on their website so that we can't see emtb reviews is creepy and won't stop my news feed from showing them.
  • - 1
 If trail access is an issue in the US, it may be time to revise the way trail access is regulated. From what I understand, it basically seems to say: if it has a motor you can't ride it here. A more sensible way would be define access by what it does instead of by what it is? And for that it takes some research. Does it cause more erosion, does it scare more animals etc? Silly enough in all those articles and posts I've seen here on Pinkbike, this hasn't been answered. Yes some have predicted that more people will ride these trails but I think that is an unfair argument. Trail damage should be viewed per trail user. If there are more users, that simply calls for more trails to keep the number of riders per section of trail steady. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing from our perspective. And really, does this suddenly increase the number of riders? the price for these bikes seems prohibitive for anyone except the insanely rich. If anything increases the number of newcomers, it'd be the availability of decent affordable gear. Back in the day I was happy to get a fork with coil spring (Judy TT, no damping). Nowadays the same kind of money gets you a much stronger fork with adjustable damping. Beginners can start with good gearing, suspension, hydraulic disc brakes. If anything, that is what allows more beginners to have a go on mountainbikes.

Anyway, as long as the research has not been done, we can only make some educated guesses. Blame my education, but my guess is that bikes with pedal assist won't necessarily cause more trail erosion than bikes without. From what I've read, mountainbikes cause most erosion on the descends and as we know, the motor doesn't do much there so they're basically equal. On the uphills then. That's where a bike with pedal assist performs differently. More erosion? Where I see erosion on the uphills is where people spin out due to insanely light gearing. The motor won't make people spin out. On the contrary, probably. The added weight then. Now I have to admit I don't really know the weight of my bikes. My hardtail is probably 13kg or so, my fully 16 or 17kg. If you'd strap the weight of my Camelbak to the fully, that'd easily reach the 22kg of a full suspension e-mtb. Do we have a max weight for bikes. Are people obliged to be weight weenie, go all carbon and aluminium to stay below a certain weight? It makes sense that a heavier system (bike, rider and gear together) cause more trail damage. Heavier braking, heavier climbing, heavier cornering. But the rider will always be the dominant weight and also see the largest variation. I'm about 75kg, my girlfriend 57, some other dude may go over 100kg. If trail damage is an issue it makes sense to set a limit to the weight of the rider (and their descending and cornering style). The variation of bicycle weight seems pretty irrelevant in that perspective. Finally, do people with e-bikes ride more and does that cause more trail damage? See, I work four days a week. I make less money but got more time to ride. If I needed to cough up for an e-bike (and for all the accelerated wear of components) I'd need to work more. I definitely wouldn't get to ride more eventually.
  • + 3
 @vinay:
- eBike prices aren't "prohibitive for anyone except the insanely rich" - they cost the same as mid-grade MTB's. (check out Giant's site for a list of eMTBs $2.3k-6.9k) The mountain bikes PB reviews are usually in the same range.
- Revising trail access regulation is easier said than done. Governments are slow to react. How do you quantify and enforce per-user or per bike weight trail impact? I mean, are you interested in a yearly weigh-in, strava history review, and bike assessment for permission to ride trails? It's easier to regulate based on key differences. (Is it solely human powered or not? is a good starter)
- Having a motor allows you to save energy on the uphills and use it for the downhills. eBikes enable way more downhill miles per effort spent, assuming the same fitness level, hence more erosion.
  • + 5
 @vinay: Nice arguments, but you are on the wrong website. Look, in many places around the world we are in a situation where feelings are tense between trail users, if you add a motor to the mix, mtb and emtb is going to be banned alltogether. Btw. there is plenty of places where eMTBs are not an issue like roads, fireroads and the rest of the world where people don't go outdoors in there free time.
  • + 0
 If only I could watch How a dude that bothers writing pish in Pinkbikes comment section, walks up to James Stewart and tells him that e-bike is a motor bike. Language is a funny thing, like we call a hand operated cursor pointing device a mouse... it's not a mouse! Now please... let me watch the world burn.
  • + 0
 @dubod22: excellent comment. If you're stupid.
  • - 2
 @chrod:
- In the PB e-bike week there was an article on the added wear of bicycle components like tires and rims. That adds up quickly. And still, from those reviews I got the impression that the e-bike version is often about 2k more expensive than the analog alternative. 2k, that's already a bike for a potential riding buddy.
- Back in the day as a kid watching American movies, often in a panic situation you had someone yelling "but we've got to do soooomething!" which got me thinking if you can't think of anything effective, you may be better off doing nothing at all. What I wrote was meant to illustrate, as you agree, that the things that would make a difference are near impossible to enforce. But that doesn't mean it is effective to call out an easily identifiable scapegoat to reduce trail.
- There are different ways to save energy on the uplift. Pedal assist is one, other means of uplift have already been pointed out. Or just ride a really lightweight XC bike, should help too. Sure it takes move skill but contrary to popular PB-belief, watching the XC worlds lately makes me think XC riders would do just fine on most descends. Especially if they bother to drop their saddles. It doesn't really stand out. Plus of course as I mentioned, I don't think people who ride a bike with pedal assist actually get that much time to ride. They're mostly working class and probably work loads to afford a bike like that. Which implies their riding time is limited. Before I got kids, I rode two hours a day, four or more on weekend days. No way the e-bike rider is going to trump that. If people are making miles, it are probably the late teens and young adults on regular (analog) mountainbikes. And despite their likely contribution to trail use, I wouldn't necessarily call their participation to the sport a bad thing.

But again as I mentioned, most of what we're saying is based on assumption and hearsay. If this is such a huge issue, it really calls for some proper research before it make sense to change whatever regulation.
  • + 2
 @YouHadMeAtDrugs:that's bs, not even a close comparison dude. An ebike does no more damage than a regular bike.
  • + 1
 @vinay: this is way to logical, no government agency would ever be able agree to this. Lol
  • + 1
 @chrod: so the same as shuttling but without the pollution????
  • + 4
 @d-man: That's about right. People with e-Bikes here are starting to gravitate to short, steep trails which they previously weren't interested in climbing due to the difficulty. eBikes allow riders to session the downhills with much less uphill effort. eBikers will ride the same trails twice or three times that they previously rode once. Trails are getting dustier and breaking up quicker. Welcome to our new world.
  • + 0
 @chrod: Oops, even though I don't ride a bike with pedal assist I do like to session stuff too. That's how I learn and improve. Riding 30 minute laps (or longer) annoy me because I'm making the same mistakes in those odd sections because there is just too much too think about. If the climb is really steep I probably have to walk up (I ride with 32t in the front and 11-32t in the rear) and I suspect that causes more erosion than rolling up. Hopefully in the near future I'll ride a bike with a Pinion C1.12 gearbox (600% range) and roll up those hills. No pedal assist so I'm investing the same kind of money in durability (with low maintenance) instead of assistance. But from a trail perspective it doesn't matter I guess. It is rolling up hills. Wider range gearing (be it Eagle or Pinion) will allow people to climb steeper, just like pedal assist does for others. And as for trail use, I may be able to ride on Thursdays and Saturdays whereas the e-bike rider only has Saturdays because they need to be in the office on Thursdays to work for their bike. The e-bike rider is not likely to get in more laps per week than me.

See, what I'm trying to point out is that the motor may not make that much of a difference compared to an enthusiastic rider on a regular bike. What used to piss me off was races on my favourite trails, actually. First the trails needed to be widened and dumbed down because the racers needed room to overtake. And then the racers came and completely ripped the thing apart. Especially when it was wet, they just dragged the rear brake down the hill instead of being sensitive with the front brake. They didn't care about the trail, they only cared about the race result. So yeah, that's the kind of intensive use that bothers me. I see what it does to the trails and it bothers me. Unlike you of course, I've not noticed any mountainbiker with pedal assist where I've ridden so far. But I don't necessarily expect them to have that arrogant "racer" attitude. After all, you can't prove anything if you've got a motor so there is no point going into racer mode. Unlike racers they won't be too bothered to loose momentum waiting for a safe and sustainable way to pass a slower rider in front. I just think it won't be too bad. But then again maybe experience with people in my region is different from yours.
  • + 3
 @vinay: Sessioning is great, unless it's happening on busy, less-than-adequately maintained trails, using a motor to avoid climbing.

We seem to be talking past each other, you and I. I think you're right, we're in very different regions. eBikes are just fine for uncrowded trails in localities where there isn't friction between riders and hikers. Substituting electricity for muscle power is more a personal choice at that point.
  • + 0
 @chrod: Yeah I suppose it really takes an immersion in another situation to truly understand what's going on. All we have now is text over the internet, but I can try. The main issue seems to be that people feel entitled to something. After all, the Klunkers weren't riding designated mtb trails back the days but we wouldn't have liked them to stop doing what they did back then. Most likely hikers weren't stoked having them on "their" paths. And of course as we know, it took decades of hard work to get to the dedicated trail network for mountainbikers that we have now. And funnily enough, people feel entitled that it is "theirs" now. In part that is because of the promises made when these trails were built. These are solely for unpowered vehicles. If these were the conditions under which cyclists were allowed on that land then quite simply, that's the way it is now. Bikes with pedal assist can't be allowed under these conditions. I'm not questioning that. What I am questioning is whether these conditions are fitting for the goal they pursue. After all, limits are there for a reason, right? And as I was trying to explain, if the effects of a mountainbike with pedal assist are comparable to those of a mountainbike without, the condition as posed doesn't make sense and it is time to revise. Just because it is difficult doesn't mean it doesn't need to be done. After all, in part I believe mountainbikers got easier access to trails simply because some research (I think it was from IMBA) proved that damage done by mountainbikers wasn't worse than that done by hikers. So there was little reason to ban mtb in areas where hiking was allowed. It takes a similar research to compare the effects of emtb and mtb. See, I really have no interest in emtb. It'd be a waste of money for me, it is not for me. But for a fair discussion and the development of trail access and regulations, the research needs to be done.

A different example, I also ride MUni (mountain unicycle). Low risk, low maintenance, good fun. As by law this is a pedestrian here, I rode it on the steeper hiking trails in the dunes. Pace is comparable with a trail runner, erosion is very limited as it is really hard to skid on one wheel. Done it for years, all fine with rangers, hikers, deer and all. I got off or they stepped aside when we needed to pass, smiles, greets, all good. Then one day I was halted by a ranger. I couldn't ride there. Yes indeed it wasn't explicitly prohibited but otherwise I'd tell on Facebook (I don't have an account, but it was his reasoning) that it is nice riding there and next day the place would be flooded with mountain unicyclists. They can't have that. Now I'm not the hot headed type so I never went there again but it is silly as there wasn't anything that justified the prohibition other than a fear for presumed excessive trail use. Luckily on my local mtb trails, mountain unicycling is officially allowed so it is all good. But technically my pace is much more on par with a trail runner than with a mountainbiker.

We don't have much friction between hikers and riders here simply because we don't share the same trails. Officially that is. Yesterday almost ran into a lady on a tight and twisty mtb trail here. There are loads of signs so she must have known. She was wearing earbuds so she didn't hear me coming until I was really close. Walking on the trail is one thing, earbuds is another. i saw her for three laps and there were other riders on the trail so she we must have scared her quite a few times. Not sure why she persisted. But no, friction between rider and hiker here is not common. In the Alps you have mixed trails but these usually also are much more open so you usually see each other from a distance so as far as I know, that usually works out fine too.
  • + 0
 You are an idiot.
  • + 196
 Motorized mountain bikes are perfect for expediting the banning of mechanized everything off public trails, as has been repeated over and over in these PB threads by a lot of other MOUNTAIN BIKERS, but the opposition will lump us all together, bikes is bikes. Yamaha help? That is laughable, the little effort put out by the 5 large motorcycle companies the last few decades has done NOTHING for their land access and the petrol motorized access has shrunk to motocross tracks and squirrel cages called OHV parks. For those of you that live rural with a billion acres of public land can shrug your shoulders and walk away. But the fact is most of these toys are bought where most of the people live and that is where most of the opposition lives and where most of the conflicts will arise and ultimately where most of us will be banned for the most part 'cause an electric motorized pedal bike looks too much like a human powered pedal bike. Easier just to change the laws/rules/bills whatever to say NO MECHANIZED VEHICLES. All for what? Laziness, yes yes I know I am spitting into the wind, and that the peoples pursuit of an easier life and the manufacturers ability to sell them what they want will steam roll us curmudgeons. I just want to say 'I told you' so when some lazy fat f*ck on a 750watt eMTB is crying about the NO BIKES signs in the parking lot. So sorry to offend you, but really WHO is going to buy a MORB? Lazy riders not wanting to squeeze in a couple more rides per week to get their fat asses stronger to hang with their best buds, just more people looking to make excuses for their lifestyle and fix it with a credit card instead of take responsibility and either ride more/eat less or if one is getting old and 'crepid, ride the same amount of TIME and accept we will ride less distance. At the very end it's all about the time we had on the bike, not mileage. Enjoy the time away from work/stress/concrete jungle whatever. And this ain't about disabled people, this is about trying to jump start the floundering bicycle industry with electricity and the big companies that are driving this movement thru sexy product development and subsequent marketing will deal with the aftermath after they pay off their tooling costs haha. Ride Centres are the future people! Controlled access, segregating us from them, we will all be in a squirrel cage right where they want us, not roaming about causing harm to Mother Earth and Her beloved hikers and horses.
David Turner
Turner Bikes
  • + 10
 Damn straight!!!!!
  • + 4
 double post
  • + 16
 Thanks Dave. That was refreshing
  • + 16
 Couldn't upvote this enough. You fucking legend Dave!
  • + 20
 @turnerbikes
Thank you for this Dave.
If I could start a standing ovation I would.
  • + 42
 @turnerbikes Right on.

I just got back from a short ride at La Costa in San Diego. Had an e-Biker sighting. He motored up all the rocky technical climbs like God's gift to the trails, took a casual piss within 10 feet of strangers, and I'm not making this up, when he pointed the thing downhill he reached for the volume button on his backpack-mounted stereo and turned up the wick, so all could hear some random 90's tribute band wailing hot licks as he left a cloud of dust behind his chubby silhouette. It was the embodiment of 'Merica, seeping of casual ignorance and utterly disappointing as a projection of how the community might someday view all bikers.
  • + 9
 Well Said ! And God help us. This Ebike thing is a slow motion car crash that we can't seem to stop. And the big MTB companies (you know who you are) are instigating this by offering this E motor bikes. Shame.
  • + 11
 Thank you for not jumping on the bandwagon and slapping a motor on your bikes. A mountain bike company that makes mountain bikes, now that's something that I respect.
  • + 9
 @turnerbikes Thanks Dave ! To be honest, I always bought Specialized because I liked these bikes, but now they extend their motorbike range so much, I won't support them anymore and will only buy mountain bikes from companies like yours : companies that keep things straight and build pure mountain bikes...
  • + 3
 You the man Dave!
  • + 6
 wow great reply David! It's refreshing to see that some like you haven't sold out to these nonsense and still value what cycling and MTBking is all about. Thanks!
  • + 5
 Truth! want a Turner now!
  • - 5
flag gollub01 (Sep 14, 2017 at 13:05) (Below Threshold)
 @chrod: peeing in front of strangers is what you are upset about? Sounds like he was having a great time being outside. Who are ANY of us to judge! You got WAY bigger things to be pissed off at living in CA bud~
  • + 4
 @gollub01: The whole situation - he was loving life in his own sphere for sure. 250 square yards of space and his chosen pee spot was close enough to us you could hear him unzip (even over the music); at the same time, total strangers (our group and others) turned to each other and chuckled. This dude's attitude completely aligned with a negative stereotype; a living, breathing "I ain't givin' no f***s" to the world. Judge? He could be a standup guy, who knows. But he's no model ambassador of the sport in a place that can use all the help it can get. CA is a great place to live, and with that comes added expense and living in proximity with a ton of different people. Every once and a while you witness a situation like this and go "hm, not much thought going on in there.....".
  • - 1
 e-bikes will not be ridden only by old fats. They are already ridden by the greatest in the sport. They are ridden by bike shop owners and skills coaches. It's going to get rough...

Thank you for that Dave. We need more voice of conscience. Hopefully it will make some other guys like you to come out of the closet.

After all, big companies already employed the best weapon ever: put a star on such bike and get him shred trails.

Although I find it extremely, awfully ironic how Spec starts their video with Matt Hunter riding an e-bike through a clearcut... it's just a fkng masterpiece.
  • + 6
 @WAKIdesigns: They are being ridden by people that are paid to promote the brands that are making them, no?
  • + 1
 @robaussie99: I am waiting for Late hours at Spec HQ porn with Matt Hunter then.
  • - 4
flag d-man (Sep 17, 2017 at 14:20) (Below Threshold)
 Wow what a narrow minded douchy thing to say. Great representation of your company. I have an ebike, I also have a fat bike, enduro bike, dh bike, road bike, bmx bike and a moto and no I am not a fat fuck as you say. I also have a freind who is 65 has been riding mtb for 20 years but broke his leg 2 years ago and could not ride until he got a Levo. He is now back riding with the group and loving every ride. Maybe give your head and shake and think about what you said.
  • + 2
 @chrod:

Had an ebike sighting at Ted Williams yesterday morning. Not sure if it was the same guy but he and his three non-motorized buddies were blaring rock/metal music out of their backpacks. What really pissed me off is that they started climbing UP the switchbacks of mid/upper Sidewalk (i.e. one of the worst places on the trail to go the wrong way) because they were too lazy / out of shape / whatever to take the straight line up the trail. I chased them down (with me riding up the main line) and let them have it purely on the merits of creating a major safety hazard by going up on a tight one-way down trail. Didn't have enough spare breath to launch into a tirade about e-bikes or simply not being a douche by blaring out loud heavy-metal on the trail... We have a fragile truce at TW with the nearby neighborhood and property owners as it is...
  • + 132
 Dear Pinkbike,

Please make a choice. Either start a new site with all e-Bike related news on it, or continue to soil this site with e-bike products news and hype. e-Bikes are not mountain bikes, PERIOD.

I understand Pinkbike earns revenue from these media releases, but quite frankly I'm tired of it and I believe it is ruining the industry, the community, and drastically altering the landscape of MTB. Pinkbike is complicit by supporting these initiatives.

If anything e-bikes should be marketed as more sustainable dirt bikes not tried to be pushed down the throats of those of us willing to pedal the way up under our own power.

Signed a PB user since 2001 (current account doesn't reflect it).
  • - 70
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 15:54) (Below Threshold)
 labeling a mountain bike a "dirt bike" isn't going to fix your kind of stupid
  • + 26
 @otto99: please, use logic and explain to us how putting motors on bicycles doesn't make them motorcycles.
  • - 41
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:07) (Below Threshold)
 @bmoore34:

Uhh the same way you can look at a human being and determine if they're a male of female based on their biological makeup.

Do I really need to explain to you how a dirt bike and emtb are different? You can google Alta motors and look at an actually electric dirt bike if you weren't aware they existed. And that's not what Yamahas talking about
  • + 30
 @otto99: this isn't something that's fluid where it depends on what type of motor it is. It's a pretty binary topic. If a bike has a motor it's a motor cycle.
  • - 20
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:13) (Below Threshold)
 @bmoore34:
Gender is not fluid. You're either XX or XY.

An emtb has distinct and obvious differences from an electric motocross bike.
  • - 7
flag d-man (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:20) (Below Threshold)
 @bmoore34: pretty simple they have pedals and need to be pedaled to move. Do motorbikes have pedals?
  • + 19
 @d-man: Mopeds do. It's in the name. And as far as I know, mopeds can't be ridden on bicycle paths. Ergo, e-bikes are not bikes.
  • + 4
 @otto99: but differences from a moped like this? Gas vs electric, nothing more.http://detroitmopedworks.com/product/1981-blue-motobecane-romp/
  • - 26
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:25) (Below Threshold)
 @JaredHarzan: lol keep you're indoctrination to yourself bud.


Not getting into this with you here it's not the place for it. I'd destroy you anyways so you can thank me now.
  • + 1
 @JaredHarzan: meat & 2 veg = dude
papaya = chick
want to be something else? Got to have the hardware to prove it.
  • + 10
 @otto99: another e posture alert. "Id destroy you anyhow"
  • + 1
 @YouHadMeAtDrugs: Yes but mopeds don't need to be pedaled. You can use a throttle once started. eMTB's do not have throttles and must be pedaled to move. Ergo e-bikes are not mopeds or motorcycles.

Not necessarily a fan just sayin...
  • - 18
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:46) (Below Threshold)
 @leelau: good eye! Got a point to make?

Or just waiting for an opportunity to virtue signal?
  • + 5
 @otto99: You mentioned gender is not fluid, but then referenced chromosomes, which would dictate male or female sex, not gender. I thought you were simply being insensitive, hence what I posted being more of a little joke on the subject, but I now realize you're just stuck in an older, more traditional way of thinking about the subject.

Here, this might help you: www.genderspectrum.org/quick-links/understanding-gender

But as you seem to enjoy discrete definitions, I'll help you out with a proper one. A bike with a motor is a motorized bike. And therefore does not belong on trails that do not allow motorized vehicles. A bicycle being a vehicle already as it is used to transport people. It's that simple.

In addition, I'm not worried about you "destroy"-ing me. Intellectually I enjoy a good argument. Physically destroying me would be much less enjoyable, but I welcome you to try. Killing you in self defense is legal and, in this case, seems like it would make the world a better place.
  • - 10
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 20:07) (Below Threshold)
 @JaredHarzan: you realize you can't change your sex though right?


Interesting how quickly your "progressive" thinking evolved into implying that because I don't think the same way you do about a particular topic, that the world be a better place if I were killed. Not to mention all your fake science nonsense you keep referencing.

Oh and based on your interesting logic a motorized skateboard should be classified as a car (motorized vehicle) since it has four wheels and a motor. Where you gonna fit the little license plate though??
  • - 8
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 20:18) (Below Threshold)
 @JaredHarzan: to all you kids out there - identity is not something you CHOOSE.
  • + 8
 @otto99: a motorized skateboard would be a motorized vehicle. I never used the word car. You did. A vehicle is "a thing used for transporting people or goods, especially on land, such as a car, truck, or cart." A bicycle or skateboard fit the definition. Adding a motor makes them both motorized vehicles.

And yes. I realize you can't change your sex. But we were talking about gender fluidity. I made the argument that gender is fluid, and sex is binary. Any other arguments you'd like to try to change?

Also, anyone who threatens people anonymously on the internet is an ass. Anyone who actually hurts people due to a silly argument on the internet, such as you would theoretically do if you "destroyed" me, deserves to be killed in self defense.
  • - 13
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 21:02) (Below Threshold)
 @JaredHarzan: i was speaking figuratively as in destroy you in a debate.

The idea that gender and sex are independent of each other is about the same as believing the earth is flat.

All of the scientific data is clear beyond dispute.


There are however feminine men and masculine women.

So there's biological grounding with variability, as well as a sociological element.

Even if you say gender is perdormative,
Then all its essentially an agreed upon social game. But that's the thing - it's an agreed upon social game.

You don't the adopt the role because it suits how you feel. You adopt the rule so you can use it as a tool to maneuver with in society.

That's why trans men often come out as hyper feminine with high heels, dresses, and makeup. but none of that's biologically instantiated.

But they adopt those roles because people know how to play the game.

Identity is a set of tools to operate in the world. If those tools don't function, you don't have a functional identity.

It isn't something that you put on, because you FEEL that way, it has to be something other people know how to respond to or else you'll become completely alienated.
  • - 4
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 21:18) (Below Threshold)
 @Aviation23: "triggered"
  • + 1
 @otto99: You finally throw off your disguise as an unintelligent asshat! I did say I enjoyed an argument.

You dispute the idea that gender and sex are independent of each other, but that gender can be adopted. If sex can't be chosen or adopted, which was already discussed, then gender MUST be independent of sex.

I see gender as a sliding scale, not binary. I don't think people choose or adopt a gender based on trying to maneuver in society. Why would people choose a role that puts them at a disadvantage in society. Traditional roles are what are most readily accepted. That is why people of non-traditional genders hide that fact from society.

And I do agree with you that when your identity doesn't work with how people expect, then it does make people alienated. That doesn't mean it can't be chosen, it just means that it makes getting through society much more difficult.
  • + 2
 @otto99: dude, just talk to some of the people who feel (yes, feel, sorry if that jars) they are living in the wrong body (some as young as 5 or 6) and try and come back to us with the same arguments. And yes identity is not a choice, otherwise these individuals would have a much easier existence. In the early 20th century, you would have been the guy writing the manual on how to make gay people straight. Might as well tell a person with no legs to stand the f*ck up.
Good luck with your own journey, hope you complete it before your certainties imprison you permanently.
  • - 4
flag otto99 (Sep 14, 2017 at 0:20) (Below Threshold)
 @BenPea: smh...

were not talking about sexuality. Wrong conversation. Keep trying, learning is hard!
  • + 2
 @otto99: it's called an analogy and it perfectly illustrates the problem. Thanks for the pm btw, but I think you might have mixed your quote up.
  • + 5
 Can anyone actually prove their claims that ebikes will ruin trail access? It seems to come down to 3 main arguments:
- more trail erosion because of their extra torque (not sure how we should think about eagle and front derailleurs then..)
- ebikers are new to the sport and don't know the unwritten rules of mountainbiking leading to conflicts with other users (do novice riders on normal bikes also cause issues?)
- the number of mountainbikers will reach some sort of critical mass (seems probable but isn't it a bit arbitrary to keep out ebikers? Maybe we should ban enduro as well as it attracts a lot of new riders too?).
  • + 7
 @bonkywonky: I think you missed the main argument about the danger of ebikes to trail access (but touch on it in your second reason). It's not mountainbikers' perception of ebikes that matters, it's how they are perceived by existing opponents of mtb trails, and how that perception can be weaponised by those groups against mtb trail access. For instance: 'those hoodlum mountainbikers are now ripping around on motorised bikes. We can't tell the difference, but we don't like it so let's lobby the authorities to close all trail access.' I personally don't want emtbs lumped in the same category as standard mtbs for that reason; I'm not against them sharing trails etc and can see their benefits for trail building or disabled users, but want them to be classed as a separate vehicle and to sort out their own legal issues *before* it becomes a problem for all of us. And that might include a special 'disabled' license or permit to allow those who need to use them for physical reasons access to trails that emtbs might otherwise be banned on. Simply trying to sneak them into a mtb classification as the manufacturers are currently doing here (Oz) and in the US is going to lead to problems (Europe laws seem ahead of the curve in this regard)...
  • - 4
flag NoskillNotalent (Sep 14, 2017 at 5:28) (Below Threshold)
 @bmoore34: Very simple,on a motorbike you just have to turn the throttle to ride.On an ebike you still have to put in some legpower or you wont go anywhere.Logic enough for you?
  • - 1
 @NoskillNotalent: Thankyou, at least you're speaking sense. (I'm not arsed about E-Bikes either)
  • + 4
 @Conm: Or is it a leg-powered throttle?
  • + 0
 @KBS1: I wonder if anyone against the Ebike thing has tried one... I have done a couple test rides... I can see where they could be useful for some people, but I don't plan on buying one too soon...
  • + 4
 @bonkywonky: keeping it simple: the more accesible is something, the more jackasses you'll find. Simple as that.
You'll find way more disrespect to other climbers and to the environment in a local climbing crag next to the road than you will in El Capitan. Same with the trails.
And more affluence of dorks and disrespect for other people and the environment leads to restrictive regulations, it's been like that in every single field I can think about. That's it.
  • + 2
 @otto99: i like you. You believe that you can make people think.

Quite frankly Pinkbike going e-bike is basically admitting that e-bikes are legitimate mountain bikes. Funny times...
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I disagree. Pinkbike reports mtb related news, and this is definitely an important topic for mountain bikers regardless of our individual views. It's way better for Pinkbike to provide a forum where this can be discussed and debated, if the alternative is for all of us to bury our heads in the sand and pretend this is going away.
  • + 95
 stop calling them eMTB. they are not mountain bicycles
  • + 18
 electric-Mo-Tard-Bicycles
  • + 10
 PinkBike really really should consider making a new dedicated site so they can cash in on the crap storm of e-bike that is coming inevitably coming through. Of course, nobody that started the PB site did so to make heaps and heaps of money...so I'm not sure who you would convince to run said new site.

Based on PBs coverage of EuroBike, there is a lot of E-bike gear (including "special" "specific" e-bike clothing!) that IS coming. And if PB wants to deal with this level of comments on EVERY article, so be it. But e-bike features will be met with great resistance. Yamaha making an e-"bike" is a joke. It's a way to get around regulations so they can sell motorized vehicles to more people. Yamaha will cash in on the e-"bike" movement. But does PinkBike want to? Or not?
  • + 1
 @ccolagio:

Only problem is that they wouldn't "cash in" because the majority of people on this site wouldn't use the "e" version. No viewers = no money.
  • + 2
 @ccolagio: There was a poll at the beginning of Ebike week to see if people wanted more of this.Last time i checked the majority was pro.
  • + 4
 @ccolagio: Theres a few sites just waiting for pinkbike to cash in and they can take the lead in providing the best mtb coverage! Am I going to value a review if they also review E-mtb next to it? If i sale bikes to die hard mtb would I choose to advertise on this website if its not all about mtb? Vital, singletracks a bunch of other guys would love pinkbike to stop being the leader, looks like pinkbike is doing it to themselves. Also all this talk of pinkbike advertising revenue is probably pretty damaging to this sites reputation. We all have to make money its uncomfortable its now a open debate where pb gets their paychecks.
  • + 1
 @robaussie99: it was weird on my fb newsfeed ebike reviews from pinkbike were poping up ( I work in the industry so I follow the brands) but these reviews weren't on my pinkbike site?! WTF is pinkbike doing if you are so fickle to not support the emtb review for access on the newsfeed why review it at all? Oh yeah money. I dont understand how you can give a product a positive review yet block your users from seeing it.
  • + 2
 @Gregorysmithj1: its simple - PB makes money from 2 things
1) Keeping visitors stoked
2) Bringing in lots of visitors

Advertising is just the add-on, if nobody comes to the site companies won't pay to advertise, if people don't want to visit the site anymore, companies won't pay.

So by only providing ads to the people that want to see those ads, and not showing the people that don't, PB maximizes it's advertising potential.
  • + 2
 @robaussie99: Pinkbike is a community of bike riders splitting up that community with targeted ads screws it all up, my friend reads a article I dont get to even see it? how is this a good idea?
  • + 3
 @Gregorysmithj1: Facebook, instagram, linkedin all work this way, basically every single social media platform....some of the biggest companies (including your president) seem to think it works for them, weather you think it's a good idea or not (I don't either) it's coming.
  • + 1
 @Gregorysmithj1: a quick "e-bike" search on vital shows that there last mention of the word in a title was on April 4, 2016. something tells me vital might not want to be the leader in e-bike material. all im saying is, does PB? and does that belong in the same place as a bicycle forum? tough questions. but branding is everything. and it seems a lot of vocal folks are vocal about not wanting to see the content.
  • + 1
 @ccolagio: pink bike can't have the branding they have and cover ebikes it's like monster sponsoring the pga.
  • + 2
 @robaussie99: this is a bike news site not that hole other beast, I think the trend pb is on is lame.
  • + 1
 @Gregorysmithj1:

Mate, open your eyes. It IS happening.

Beer mfg's sponsor almost every professional sport. Pinkbike IS going the way of every other website that relies on advertising to make money weather you like it or not, to think they wouldn't model it after the guys that exploit it best (FB, IG etc) is crazy.
  • + 2
 @robaussie99: I have to use FB and IG I don't have to use pink bike they aren't that big..
  • + 70
 "While some eMTB manufacturers that are selling in North America have chosen to not address trail access issues, it seems likely that Yamaha will work to help safeguard our sport's most important resource." Why does this seem likely?

If mountain bike companies don't care about protecting mountain bike trails, why would a powersports company?
  • + 9
 The only thing I can think of (if there's any shred of truth to their claim) is that the OHV crowd went through a series of massive access issues for the last 25 years and know a thing or two about having iconic areas suddenly shut down. Not that I have much sympathy for them, as they were legitimately destroying natural areas, but the lessons are still there.
  • + 6
 Sounds like they want to get motorbikes on bike trails while retaining access to the current moto trails. Either that, or they hope more MTB/E-MTB/MOTO guys will get together to build new sanctioned trails for all 3 groups. I ride a lot of single-track trails built specifically for motos, and I notice three things: whoops, dust, and chunder. Makes for very intense, but slower riding. Good training, I suppose, but I still like dedicated MTB trails.
  • + 21
 Which one of @Pinkbike Staff member pulled that statement out of thin air? Own it please and sign your name to it.
  • + 3
 Thank you Team-Robot for this logic. Patiently waiting for a logical answer......
  • + 2
 "...seems likely" how exactly does it seem? Where's this info indicating this? what a horseshit, pandering statement.
  • + 10
 @leelau: That would be me.

@TEAM-ROBOT: a few reasons.

First, motorsports have gone through lots of land access issues, and Yamaha has supported initiatives and lobbied all levels of government in the past. They've also worked on rider-education. See www.yamahaoai.com or www.marketwired.com/press-release/yamaha-outdoor-access-initiative-awards-more-than-100000-in-q3-2016-2175805.htm or dirtwheelsmag.com/news/yamaha-ohv-access-initiative-awards-more-than-190000-in-first-quarter-2008 etc.

Second, we've done some digging and gotten wind of Yamaha planning to work with some high-level people and putting some serious effort into this stuff. We didn't report specifics because we haven't verified them, but we're doing a lot of work behind the scenes to see if/how people are putting their money where their mouths are.

Third, they actually have the resources and structure to make a real impact if they choose to. Some of the smaller bike brands that are slapping a 3rd party motor on a frame couldn't make a difference even if they tried.

That's not to say with 100% certainty that Yamaha will do anything positive surrounding trail access, only that it seems likely.

CC @bman33 @flipfantasia
  • + 4
 @brianpark: thanks Brian. That's much more helpful than the previous statement left hanging
  • + 9
 @brianpark:
Why would they care about land access issues for mountain bikes when they dont produce a non assisted pedal bike. Why would this have any other intention than gaining more access for motorized bikes which is what they make their money on. They are going to sell a teeny tiny amount of these compared to moto bikes. Moto and MTb don't mix on trails.

Report the specifics, reference your sources, your second statement contradicts your article. "Behind the scenes" "gotten wind" give me a break man, your speculating and promoting based on that speculation. I don't believe you, I really don't and no one should. You offer no actual reason they will help mtb, I know pinkbike isn't journalism but man this is some really loose stuff for even and editorial/opinion staff writer. You're a professional do better work
  • + 5
 @brianpark:

My suggestion, in this HIGHLY "fragile" audience is to get that info, verify it, THEN present it to the people. We've all been f*cked by hopes and dreams "promises" before.
  • + 2
 Holy triple post, sorry, can't delete via mobile.
  • + 3
 @brianpark: As @turnerbikes said: Yamaha help? That is laughable, the little effort put out by the 5 large motorcycle companies the last few decades has done NOTHING for their land access and the petrol motorized access has shrunk to motocross tracks and squirrel cages called OHV parks.
  • + 39
 If you cant' pedal it to the top ... you probably shouldn't be riding down. E-bikes are find for commuters around town, but seriously, its like going to the gym and smoking a cigarette while bench pressing. Defeats the purpose of the activity.
  • + 16
 i don't think anyone is bench pressing to improve their cardiovascular endurance...but i get your point.
  • - 22
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 15:57) (Below Threshold)
 That's a shitty point. It'd be more accurate to say it's like someone who goes to the gym and runs on the treadmill or do the elliptical. Biking is inherently healthy activity regardless if e bike or not. Smoking is not.
  • + 9
 Vokes -> I'm against them.... kind of. I'm planning on getting one for my 65th bday as I assume by then I'll be (even more) slowly limping up my local climbs but by that age will have earned the right to still shred sick trails but with a little help.

I have no issues with ebikes for riders recovering from surgery or "old" or disabled riders. Problem is I've never seen anyone that appears to be in that category when I see one on the trails.

So agreed. It's embarrassing to see a healthy rider on one. Media squids excluded for event coverage.

Some communities are already posting "no ebike" signs on some of their trails.

I don't know what I just said but I said something.
  • - 1
 I rode with someone who was on an emtb the other day, it took us 2.5 hours to get up and I was dying. 20 mins downhill was great. I could have done that again but not the climb.

He could do the climb in 30 mins (it was fire roads) take his battery out for the down and have 99% as much fun as me, and do it twice.

We are in the middle of the Alps though, so trail access isn't really an issue to contend with.

I was very anti them until I saw this. Horses for courses I guess. Where you have to climb 1500m on rough fire roads I can totally see the attraction.
  • + 3
 @locoola: Yeah it's okay for long fire road and your trails as if I'm correct, are mainly biker/pedestrian trails?! But here we have trails that are build strictly for us ($$$) and very often on little mountains, so we really can't compare with you guys! Wink
  • + 30
 As much as I'd like to believe that the editorial staff and the bean counters at Pinkbike are going to take a principled stand on eBikes, it's NOT gonna happen.

These guys have families to feed and bills to pay, and work in an industry that pays people a modest income to work in a field they love. Never mind that this field of work could be eradicated here in the states by emtbs.

This is not a hill any of them are gonna die on. They'll make it look like they're concerned and deliberate in their coverage of emtbs. But that lip service will be about the extent of it.

These guys aren't gonna miss their mortgage payment because the bike makers have gotten too greedy. And yes, no matter how you slice it, emtbs exist PURELY for profit's sake. "But the sport needs to grow!" "But doesn't EVERYONE deserve to be able to bike in the mountains?" "But they're coming whether you like it or not so SHTFU and sit down!" But my butt!

And here go the bike manufacturers following each other like lemmings into the sea. All the while throwing their idiot hands up in the air tittering "well, everyone else is gonna get rich murdering mountain biking, why shouldn't we?!"

Emtbs are f***ing stupid, end of discussion.

EDIT: and another thing! You've got long time PB users begging you to stop this nonsense. It's not like it's one troll complaining, it's the overwhelming majority of PASSIONATE mountain bikers that visit this site! What do you think pink bike will look like when all of us find somewhere else to get the Real Fix, do you think all those fat lazy weekend warriors are going to keep you guys afloat once they get tired of their emtb? I guess we'll find out...
  • + 30
 Pink Bike is a MTB based site based on the riding of mountain bikes. One of the biggest issues we have with MTBing in the US is land access. Covering eMTBs on PB automatically associates mountain bikes with eMTBs. This is an issue when land owners/goverment/property owners see this association. eMTBs should be separated from the content of PB or we as mountain bikers are automatically associated with eMTBs. Perception is everything. These eMTBs are NOT mountain bikes regardless of who they are manufactured by. We need responsible separation for the sake of the future of land access.
  • + 23
 I've been a member of Pinkbike for 9 years and I rarely get involved in the comment section other than the occasional up vote or down vote.

I just wanted to share my opinion as it appears the vast majority of other commenters have. Electric Bikes are not mountain bikes. They are a completely different machine. By putting a motor on a bike you are making a Motor Bike. Sure it's an Electric Motor Bike, but it's still an Motorbike. So it's pedal assist? Then it's a Pedal Assist Electric Motor Bike.

Am I saying I am against them in general? No. Am I denying that they have a purpose? No. I do strongly feel that Electric Motorbikes should have the same access rights as regular Motorbikes, because that is what they are and I strongly dislike seeing them on the trails that Mountain Bikers built for Mountain Bikes. I don't think we should have to read articles on Electric Motorbikes on the world's biggest Mountain Biking website. I don't expect to read about Mountain Biking on a Motorbike website.

Pinkbike should be absolutely ashamed of itself for not taking into consideration the vast majority of it's readers strong opinions on the prevalence of Electric Motorbikes. It's shameful for a Mountain Bike news outlet to be so influenced by the Electric Motorbike industry. Just because Specialized, Giant, Yamaha or whoever tells you it is a Mountain Bike doesn't mean you have to agree with them, Pinkbike. Shame on you for bending to the will or the greedy Electric Motor Bike manufacturers.
  • + 6
 Right on. Interesting side note, all motors are, by definition, powered by electricity, an engine is powered by combustion. So technically these god awful things are actually more motor bike, than actual motor bikes.
  • + 25
 Hope it comes with a braap noise added
  • + 3
 Need Ducati to bring their dry clutch for my rattling is cooler than yours parking moments.
  • + 20
 @RichardCunningham , I hope your subscribers have made it clear that we are not impressed. It is obvious that Pinkbike has become a Shill for paying advertisers that pass this shit off as journalism. We cannot compromise the core of our sport that is human powered transport. If it has pedals it is a bicycle, if it has a motor then it is a motorcycle, if it has both it is a Moped. Start a site called PinkMoped for this crap and let us know how it turns out.
  • + 22
 Yo Yamaha, make us a gearbox as well.
  • + 2
 Honda did it by literally building a short cage derailleur inside a box. And it was sweet.
  • + 2
 @seraph: 100% seraph. Those RN01's were badass. I always wished they stayed in the game.
  • + 0
 @seraph: There was three variants, maybe more but 3 were shown to the public, and the first was a proper gearbox but was heavy. the end variation was indeed a drl in a box sort of design, which worked well for them. I followed the development from the get go, was neat to see. Wonder how it would have played into the UCI rules about prototypes being sold to the public within a certain time span.
  • + 16
 Hopefully this brings a different approach. New ideas and builds competition. That being said. They have to adhere to new rule of $250,000 donation to a Bikepark rule if they want to introduce a new standard. 1 donation = 1 standard. /s
  • + 19
 i predict electric assist fades into obscurity like mountain boards, pogs & zima...
  • + 19
 One can only hope....
  • + 3
 This past weekend I saw some kids drinking Zima at a tailgate for a baseball game. Supposedly it's the new "cool" thing.
  • + 5
 Zuma! (Haha, crying)
  • - 4
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 15:54) (Below Threshold)
 I predict it continues to get small and exponentially more powerful and long lasting thereby making mass distribution possible on a global scale
  • + 13
 e-Bikes, unfortunately, will increase in popularity and technological advancement. They'll get lighter, more compact and more powerful as tech improves. At some point, most bikes will come with an 'e' option.

It's possible that as popularity increases and trail use increases that trails will suffer from reduced support and advocacy (can you imagine the folks that buy an electric assisted bike actually using a manual shovel to maintain trails?)

It will take a strong effort of mountain bikers (that's you, Pinkbike supporters!) speaking out, raising awareness, and supporting local chapters to manage the coming e-Bike epidemic accordingly. (treat it like a virus)
  • - 32
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:09) (Below Threshold)
 @chrod: how about you learn to embrace them like you embrace illegal immigrants since you're so noble
  • + 12
 @otto99: How are those things the same again?
  • - 19
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:22) (Below Threshold)
 @chrod: for starters they're both perceived as invasive and harmful by specific groups of individuals.
  • + 13
 @otto99: So are viruses, zebra mussles, and "that music those kids listen to these days".
  • + 3
 But I loved my Mongoose mountain board... I was the coolest kid taking up too much space sucking at the skate park.
  • + 2
 @otto99: thats the dumbest comment you have made here so far.
  • + 1
 @Gmang: haha i was just riding my mongoose mtn board this afternoon
  • + 1
 Zima is alive and well!
  • + 15
 Pretty much can't wait for the 1st e biker to get a ticket from the forest service for illegal use on our trail network here in NC. I personally know they are aware of this site and how the machine will impact trail use here. Don't risk our trails with e bikes please. No matter what, PB needs to stand with real MTBrs and help fight the use of such machines on the trails. What up? Are you with real MTBrs or NOT PB? Whats your take on it? Who is reading this at PB and thinks that these are a good idea for progression on the trails you have worked so hard to gain access to? Hello??? This will shut down trail access period. Hope you like hiking jack asses! If you buy one of these for riding trail then you are an idiot!
  • + 14
 @yamahabicycles I'm assuming you have advocated for Moto trail access, but given the dismal access motorcycle riders have in Washington state, why are we to expect anything different for mountain bikers?

We have made so much progress in our state recently, it is hard to see ebikes as anything but divisive and problematic for our sport.
  • + 19
 RC = Oracle
  • + 17
 In other news Harley Davidson is getting into the road bike game, but whatever you do don't call it a motorcycle.
  • + 11
 You could call it a gutless lump of shit. But that would likely confuse most of the other Harley owners.
  • + 8
 Soon to be followed by HD branded bike helmets, jerseys, shorts, gloves, socks and shoes. Harley owners seem to insist on full brand compliance lol
  • + 14
 Let's all close our eyes and cover our ears. Why would you not want to see the news that could directly affect your pastime that you seem so passionate about? You are basically saying that you would like pinkbike (which covers all bike news; good, bad, ugly or new) to keep us in the dark from coverage concerning e-bikes.

SO ONCE AND FOR ALL PINK BIKE WE ONLY WANT RACE COVERAGE, AND ONCE EBIKES HAVE TAKEN OVER OUR TRAILS OR REVOCOTED OUR ACCESS TO THEM YOU ARE ALSO SURELY TO BLAME. BUT UNTIL THEN PLEASE LET'S NOT SPEAK OF THESE MATTERS.
  • + 16
 So now can we finally categorize e-bikes as motorized vehicles?
  • + 12
 There ought to be a PB poll for which bike mnfr will be the next or last to enter the e-moto-pedelec-moped craze. Like will Transition dive in before Evil? Or how about which ridiculous names will be trademarked. Will Kona roll out an eProcess? Will there be a Giant Charge? A Trek cleanFuel? A Diamondback eMission?
  • + 8
 Clever names. you have a bright future ahead in bike marketing.
  • + 17
 The beginning of the end
  • + 1
 Surely the end of the beginning of the end by now. The middle of the end begins.
  • + 11
 By Pinkbike Staff? The PInkbike editors are all too ashamed to put their name in the by line of an e-bike article. If Shimano was introducing a new 15 speed group the article would be written by one of the usual suspects and they'd proudly own it.
  • + 1
 Gutless money Grabbers home in the fake news
  • + 15
 pick an electric assist mountain bike motor and be a dick about it.
  • + 60
 Pick an e-bike and fuck right off is more like it.
  • + 6
 @seraph: amen, brother.
  • + 2
 @seraph: Pick an e-bike and attach a leaf blower to the back; clean the whole trail system in a few hours.
  • + 15
 MWAHAHA! ALL THE KOMS WILL BE MINE! Because Strava comes first
  • + 5
 Only on the climb trails tho, old timer.
  • + 15
 Hey pinkbike. A motor is a motor. Please stop.
  • + 11
 What's weird is that more and more local agencies are officially banning electric motor bikes from trails they manage; yet the local bike shops still demo these. The industry is hell bent on a crash course with trail access of the sport as a whole.

Strava did enough damage to our trails.

We need to build more trails and gain more access not bring more users and lose access.
  • + 16
 Yamahahahaha
  • + 9
 I think E-bikes are a bit funny - but why is everyone so negative? If you think about it, how are E-bikes much different than chairlifts and shuttle runs? Going up hills, not under your own power. Really having an E-bike is kind of like a mini chairlift at your pedals!

In my area, I think I have only seen maybe 1-2 E-bikes this summer. As far as I am concerned, they have not presented any issues on my trails. I have also demo'd one this summer - just for fun - and guess what - it was really fun. Was it for me - no, but maybe when I am 60 I might consider it.

Is an E-bike a motor bike - kind of (at least you have to move your legs to get the motor to move). Should E-bikes be on Pinkbike - doesn't bother me - this is really a first world problem!
  • + 9
 The most important thing RC said in the article a year ago was:
'To understand why this is important, consider that the solitary reason that mountain bikes gained access to trails where motorized vehicles of any sort were banned was because they are human powered - and it was a tenuous handshake - we were not welcomed by traditional users with open arms. If we had told them up front, that pedaling uphill was too difficult, so we were going to use motors, mountain bikes would have been permanently banned - end of story.'
I think he is correct. What we will now get is ebike trails and non-ebike trails. And in some areas it will be too hard for land managers (since most parks have limited staffing) to distinguish ebikes from standard mountain bikes so they will band ALL bikes from certain trails. Thus less access than we have today.
  • + 10
 Hey Pinkbike, I come here to read about bicycles that don't have motors. If you are going to continue to post about bicycles with motors then I will no longer waste my time on your website.
  • + 8
 In German a Moped is called Mofa = Motorfahrrad (Motorised Bicycle).
An E-Bike is nothing else than a motorised bicycle. Stop calling E-bikes bikes, they are E-Mopeds. If this would be understood by all the Gov. out there we would not have all this discussions. There are different rules and laws for Mopeds and bicycles which would solve a lot of the issues.

I have nothing against E-Bikes for commute or everyday use e.g. for trailer (for kids), shopping ...
But I can not understand the reason for an e-mountain bike. If I want to do off-road without muscle power I can also go and do some MX.


Dear Pinkbike
I do understand that E-bikes are a thing, even in the MOUNTAIN-Bike industry, but as you can see in all the comments please do make an other Site for e-mopeds (bikes) so we all can calm down. You might even get a larger audience with a second site.
  • + 13
 Hashtag #Pinkscooter
  • + 8
 Just Sayn' Climb a hill , you are the motor, you are the focus to your acheivements in the life we live,,,Climb till your legs are on fire and you just wanna get off your bikkes and throw them to the ground ask why am I doing this, reason,,,we love it, this is to me not a bad thing but a thing that makes the idea of actually climbing a hill on your own spirit and no one or anythengs else is there with you , no computer or what ever, The only thing you get energy off of is the sound of the wind , the trees shaking there leaves giving a Bing Crosby song,,just sayin'
  • + 9
 If it keeps the buthurt tinkerbells above in a rage then I'm all for it lol. Honestly, some people on here need to seek help for their anger issues.
  • + 10
 Bicycles have always been a pedal driven, HUMAN-powered form of transportation. We already have motorcycles.
  • + 8
 Just make e-pinkmoped or something and stop trying to brainwash people with this garbage. France and germany are already discussing regualtioms about mandatory insurace and license plate-for e-baiks amd real bicycles.
  • + 10
 If this has become Pink-E-bike in rescinding my plus status and financial donation. Get the F over it Pinkbike.
  • - 4
flag sjflow (Sep 13, 2017 at 18:36) (Below Threshold)
 Bye Felicia.gif
  • + 2
 @sjflow: Now that's how a real insecure man responds. Keep using those engines instead of your muscles and someday it will, well, not make you a real man.
  • + 1
 @lifeofloon: I ride a 20-year old Cannondale hardtail with 63mm of elastomer suspension. Old school, buddy! :-P
  • + 0
 @sjflow: your point being? You still throw out sexist remarks like a child when you disagree with another person's opinion rather than offering constructive dialogue.
  • + 10
 Does anybody know of an MTB organization that has taken a hard stance against ebikes? I'd like to give them some money.
  • + 3
 @turnerbiked just commented this article
  • + 3
 @Schlafmutzli: Yeah, I wish I could upvote his comments a dozen times. I'm thinking more in terms of lobbying organizations - IMBA and the like. Have any of them told ebikes to get bent?
  • + 1
 @Layman: www.imba.com/resources/emtb-management

Early on I heard rumors of specialized enlisting IMBA to lobby for ebikes. I don't really see anyone talking about it these days though, so who knows if it was true.
  • + 6
 E MTN bikes should be reserved for people who are not able to ride a real bike because of a physical condition! If you are an able bodied person then it is not a MTN bike and should not be on our trails! Get off your ass, ride a real bike and get a good workout! If you want a powered bike then buy a motorcycle and go ride somewhere else!
  • + 10
 YAMABE alienating your readership
  • + 9
 Yes, the familiar refrain of "I could buy a motorcycle for that" could ring out

Well it is a motor-cycle!
  • + 10
 First comment, err ... I'll just make some popcorn.
  • + 6
 I used to be pretty neutral on the ebike thing, but it's really starting to bug me.

It just kind of defeats a lot of the purpose of being on a bicycle. Why not just ride a dirt bike? Hell, they are probably priced similarly.
  • + 6
 I'm 38 years old with a bad hip and as of right now, I'm unable to ride due to some muscular rupture in my healthy leg. This was achieved by pedalling as hard as possible or as much as my cardio allowed. As soon as the pain goes away I will be out there again, battling it out the only way I know. That's what makes mountainbiking special to me, the constant fighting against fatigue and pain. The pleasure after a long hard day on the bike is what keeps me coming back for more. If I can't do it by my own power then my biking days will be over, and I accept that fact.
But let's say I met a disabled person with an ebike on the trail. Would I chase that person with a stick? Hell no, I would thank that person for helping to keep our trails alive. We don't have any built trails where I live, only old trails made by feet. Many of them are being lost to nature, slowly taking them back and someday they will be gone.
With that being said, I will never go even near an ebike. If my hip breaks down, I will get a new hip and keep on fighting. That's what real swedes do!
  • + 7
 Yamaha Pedal-Assist Bikes (YPAB) should really be - YPAB = "Your P***y ass Bicycle" since you're too afraid of sweat and losing that Big-Mac body. Sorry.
  • + 1
 By "p***y-ass bicycle," I hope you're referring to Juliana Bicycles. And not being a sexist douchebag.
  • + 5
 g-buzz - to all the chicken little's out there...
You can't stop this, it's happening, so the sooner you get your bigoted asses off the couch (and away from your screen) and get active with local and regional advocacy groups, the sooner a solution can be created to a access issue that isn't going away.

As for Yamaha, they can call their bikes anything they want to.
As someone who has twisted throttles all his life and has tried a variety of ebikes, while I can agree that they are "powered", they have nothing in common with dirt bikes except for the way they will make you grin once you get past your fear of the sky falling.

OK - neg prop me away, but this product isn't going away and people will buy them (period).
  • + 5
 glad to see I'm not the only one.
If it's not powered by your legs, F**k off. It's a motor bike.
Are cars not cars if they have electric motors?

FFS. This is seriously bad for the sport. Electric motors should be banned from trail centres.
  • + 5
 Just admit that mountain bikers are a bunch of herbs, mountain biking stopped being cool sometime between 1998 and 2007 and the eBikes are coming whether you like them or not.

We get what we deserve. Time to dust off the rollerblades. If your lucky, you'll still be able to mail order a Canyon or a YT in 10 years when eBikes have complete ruined mountain bikers and all the old/feeble/heart conditioned riders that eBikes saved are dead and the authorities no longer care enough to enforce the outright bans on mountain bikes that popped up in the early 2020's.
  • + 8
 Electric motocross is coming
  • + 7
 Its here. The Alta holds it's own against 450's on both tracks and trail.
motocross.transworld.net/videos/2017-transworld-slam-alta-motors-darryn-durham/#h4Jh3btBkMqcxJUp.97
  • - 12
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 16:01) (Below Threshold)
 @CaptainBLT: finally someonenon PB who realizes electric dirt bikes already exist and there's a difference between an emtb and e dirt bike LMFAO
  • + 10
 @otto99: e-moped? Now that's something we could call 'em.
  • + 4
 @otto99: That's not really what I was saying. EMX and eMtb are extreme ends of a spectrum of motorized off-road electrified cycles. The difference is only the available power and type of throttle (twist vs pedal actuated). I have ridden all of the above, and it is my opinion that eMtb do not belong on trails not explicitly labeled for motorized off-road use.

To anyone who wants a motorized cycle, why not just pony up and buy a dirt bike? A 2 stroke 125 trail bike is a great place to start, because they are cheap, light, and don't have so much power you'll get into much trouble while you're learning. Not into the noise? an Alta is more costly, but it will depreciate far less than your eMTB.

If you find that there aren't enough places to ride your new motorized two wheeled vehicle, I suggest that you start advocating for more access for motorized use. Here in NW Washington, there's only one place to ride without breaking the law, and I know the dirt bike crowd would be happy to have more advocacy partners in the mountain bike community.
  • + 4
 It's sad this is happening to the sport. People are going to buy these electric trail mopeds. Especially the pink bike hated beginner dentist. 15 years ago when I started the sport I probably would have considered one too due to how damn hard it was to climb. After earninng my stripes and becomeing a mountain biker, I don't want any part of this.. you expect it from shitty brands like specialized but when pivot jumped on board, that's when we hit rock bottom. you can go fuck yourself if you come up behind me on one wanting to pass on a climb!!!
  • + 4
 I don't mind people using ebikes to get outside, but I don't want my non motorized trails to be dumbed down even more to accomodate these heavy bikes piloted by casual Joes who have not learned to respect the trail through literal blood, sweat, and tears. Keep em on motorized offroad atv and dirtbike trails and we're all good. People argue that the emtb allows them to climb more and get more riding in, but are you still going to respect that epic section you used to have to pedal 2 hours to get to if you can now get a half doven laps in? Will that section still be as natural and challenging when traffic increases?
Also I don't think Pinkbike should be admonished for publishing this press release, as it contains a lot of op-ed about what this could mean for the industry and sport.
  • + 7
 Pinkbike should stop posting these eBike news front cover, start a new website called PussEbikes
  • + 4
 Majority of local trails are posted "No motorized vehicles permitted" I hope it stays this way. These are motorbikes, not bikes. Try and spin it all you want.

I'm a "target demographic" for this product, coming off a very severe lower leg break, and I want nothing to do with them. Know what I do when I feel I can't ride any longer? I ride longer! Each day I go further and further Smile
  • + 4
 Just had to race a bunch of e bike riders at an ENDURANCE CROSS COUNTRY RACE over the weekend (why they were even allowed is beyond me). Naturally the moment I cramped up on a steep climb and an E Biker cruised me I almost lost the plot.... but I still had another 60km of racing to go and figured I'd need to retain some energy....
  • + 2
 Did the ebikes eventually run out of range? Genuine question.
  • + 1
 @iamamodel: I'm not sure if this is true but I heard batteries were placed at the various food/drink rest stops.....
  • + 4
 "why is this on a bike site?" because as a community we need to be aware of the threat this poses to trail access. PB should have more articles advising us on actions we can take to protect our trail access.. There has to be zero tolerance for e-bikes (bicycle centric mopeds) on MTB trails or we'll lose the access we fought so hard to get. Also, what about investing all that R&D $$$ into new lift access, and trail building. Create access for those that can't or don't want to pedal by funding more opportunities for NEW lift access sites, and ride at your own risk legal protection for land and park owners as long as lift safety standards are met.
  • + 4
 @YamahaBicycles just came here to post their "wise" words about the ebikes and they support to "some" land management institutions for improving their access, started the fan with s***t and covered all over the Pinkbike community, now they never came back to answer the arguments of many of us about the trail problems with these ebikes. Let's be serious ebikes are NOT a mountain bike IN ANY WAY, just because got pedals doesn't mean it's a bicycle, it's like the ostrich should fly because it have wings.
  • - 2
 has anyone seen anyone pedal a moped? I've seen a lot of Vespa style mopeds on the street and on the bike paths and never have I seen anyone actually use the pedals.
  • + 8
 And least not forget...Yamaha makes some fucking badass pianos.
  • + 16
 and even their pianos have pedalsWink
  • + 8
 Don't mind me--I'm just here for the comments.
  • + 7
 If it's not solely powered by you, it's not a bicycle. It has an electric motor: motorcycle.
  • + 3
 A key development to "eMTBs" will be if they are restricted to pedal-assist. Right now anyone, anywhere, can buy a 500-1000W hub motor with a thumb throttle on eBay from a number of Chinese and US sources. These are basically motorcycles. They are far faster than human powered bicycles. They are cheap and easy to put together. If widely adopted, throttle controlled ebikes will cause trail access to close up across the west. Hikers and equestrians are not going to notice the difference between a pedal-assist limited Yamaha and a homebrew high wattage throttle bike. One brush will paint every trail user on two wheels. Regular mountain bikers are already hated on high-use trails on Colorado's Front Range. Ebikes will bring trail closures.
  • + 7
 Bottom line ride an ebike if you are a bitch or disabled.
  • + 2
 Same goes for anyone using a chairlift?
  • + 3
 gesus phuk people. They have a motor. Specifically on a specific track for people that need them or long commutes ...GREAT. But anything Mountain bike leave it alone. Lets be honest its a revenue generating task for big Corps. Yamaha is no exception. I love Yamaha when I play guitar and or ride my Motorcycle ( FZ 600 in the 80's) but this is not true to mountain biking. What happens when the old/young/inexperienced girl-boy-woman -man hits a sections too fast and needs help to get out. Just because its motorized does not make you a capable mountain bike rider. You guys are all coming off GREEDY . BTFU !
  • + 3
 @YamahaBicycles: Your products may be great, but they're not mountain bikes! The industry needs to get a grip and realize that most mountain bikers ride their bikes to have fun, get/keep fit, and get to wild and beautiful places - we do not want or need a motor to complicate this simple, wonderful relationship. Ebikes may well have a place, but it should not be where mountain bikers go, under their own steam.
  • + 3
 This pretty overweight guy came on our big group ride a few weeks back on a Spesh Levo turbo. He was gassed at the top of every climb, didn't pass us, was slow on the downhills, but he was out, getting motivated, having fun, nobody minded it when the time came to actually face it. Our #1 ebike hater didn't have a bad word to say, when you see the positive ways it can be used. Without the motivation to ride with others and keep up in a pretty fit group, would he keep coming? keep building skills and cardio to one day transition to a normal bike? Lots of angry commentors here, I'm sure lots of guys who shuttle in trucks a lot..
  • + 8
 E bikes are Dumb !
  • + 7
 Why is this on a bicycle website?
  • + 7
 Starting to hate where this hobby/sport is heading to......
  • + 3
 Hopefully this helps clarify the difference between an eMTB, and a motorcycle:

A motor transforms one form of kinetic energy, into another form of kinetic energy, such as the kinetic energy stored in a battery, into the rotational energy of a spinning motor shaft (electric motors).

An engine transforms potential energy into kinetic energy, such as the potential energy stored in a can of fuel, into the rotational energy of a spinning crankshaft (internal combustion engines).

Thus, calling a bicycle with an internal combustion engine a "motorcycle" is actually a misnomer. An eMTB is a true example of the name "motorcycle," but since that name has already been taken by something that isn't actually a motorcycle, eMTB, or some other variation is what we'll be stuck with. Ironic huh?

So when you ride an eMTB on your trail, you're riding a motorcycle in the proper sense.
  • + 1
 Isn't it all chemical energy rather than potential? One uses lithium, the other gasoline, which makes them one and the same. Am I wrong?
  • + 1
 P.s. potential energy is what you have at the top of a descent. Gravity turns it into kinetic energy. Not a scientist btw!
  • + 7
 Jeebus there is a lot of butt hurt going on in here
  • + 6
 today i bought my first water mountain bike, funny a friend called it a peddle boat!
  • + 4
 I think eMTBs should be treated as disabled parking permits. If you have and apply for a disabled license, have It somewhere visible and then you can have trail access where permited. I think its a
  • + 1
 Agreed!
  • + 6
 If you ever needed confirmation that e-bikes aren't mountain bikes... enter Yamaha.
  • + 4
 "Pinkbike Staff" Is that like the MBA wrecking crew? Why not have the guts to put a name on the article? Somebody wrote this. It wasn't a committee. Or was it RC and he's too embarrassed? That makes sense.
  • + 3
 Please stop. A bicycle is human powered; not electric, not gas, not nuclear. Human. BICYCLE - a vehicle composed of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other, PROPELLED BY PEDALS and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel. Stop Posting E-Bike Bullshit.
  • + 3
 it's an electric moped not a mountainbike. Bicycles by definition (and logic) are human powered, mopeds are bicycles with motors attached, think about which one is more apt.


Making shit up doesn't make it true, even if it's 2017.
  • + 7
 it's a moped!! keep them for urban use please!
  • + 5
 Electric bike? No thanks, not what I think of as a bike. Can we offer you a bad ass electric street bike unlike the crap you can buy now and more like an R6? Yes you can.
  • + 6
 Yamaha just stole the record for worst press release from Crank Brothers. Way to go guys thumbs up!
  • + 5
 It's a motor bike. Regulate it like a motor bike. Stop calling it an eMTB.
  • + 3
 PinkBike, please don't start including this crap on the page! Let some other wannabe bike page take this shit. Please stick with REAL bicycles only.......yeah I said it....REAL BICYCLES!!!!
  • + 6
 Either your loyal to the game or you got a motor in yo frame.
  • + 1
 best statement yet!
  • + 2
 Have never ridden an ebike but would probably enjoy it but I'm really fed up with them getting rammed down our throats by an industry that pretends it's not about making money. The pushing of the ebikes seems to have surpassed 29ers, 27.5 and boost combined and maybe a lot of the hate is due to this. If I'm right in the uk they are limited to 250w over this and I think they would be classed as a moped, as they have pedals. Over 250w and no cranks and pedals and they are effectively a motor bike.
  • + 2
 There seems to be little to agree on within the comments section as I have failed to see any consensus.

Can we all agree that YamahaMotors has big balls for posting and that otto99 is the least liked commentor on this story?

See - consensus can be easy sometimes...
  • + 2
 I know this will fall on mostly deaf ears but I really just don't get the e-bike hate from the mtb community.

Full disclosure. I own one. I also own an enduro bike, a CC hardtail, a road bike, a dirt jumper and a city bike. Until very recently I also owned a full blown motocross bike. I like bikes. A lot.

The is so much false information in the hate being spewed here and there are some facts about PEDAL ASSIST E-bikes that should be set straight.

1. They are motorbikes. They are NOT motor bikes. There is no throttle and you HAVE to pedal to make them go. That's a fact. If there is a throttle and you don't have to pedal then it is absolutely a "motor bike" and should subject to other rules.

2. They will overcrowd the trails! Well then all you of should also boycott any brand the advertises their products for mtb. Since growth in the industry is bad right? There is strength in numbers and we need the sports(s) to grow.

3. They'll wear out the trails!The amount of wear on the trail is the same as any other mountain bike. I depends on your riding style and level of skill. Of course you can get more trails in on a ride. Some trails see high volume and require more maintenance and others don't. That already happens. If you're not doing trails work. You should. The vast majority of riders don't. That's a fact.

4. They're too fast and therefore dangerous. That is also absolutely incorrect. In fact they descend worse ( slower) than a modern enduro bike. At a certain speed (about 15mph for a class 1 e-bike) you get no help from the "motor" anyway.

In addition. Anyone descending on pretty much any type of bike will still be gong faster than any e-bike while climbing. As for people going up "downhill" trails? I regularly run into hikers, equestrians, Dh-er's pushing and lycra clad CC riders going up the "wrong" way all the time. If you're outside of a bike park you always have to exercise caution while descending.

I own one because it's super fun and it allows me to get deeper with more tools and to dig longer on the trails I love.

For others though it can be the difference between enjoying the outdoors and not. Most trails make it impractical for people with disabilities to enjoy them. There is HUGE potential here.
If your argument is that it will allow people onto trails that are not appropriate for their skill level. That's ridiculous. The trail self limits a rider with lesser abilities. I see people get shuttle dropped onto trails that are way over their head all the time.

Resist the urge to have a negative knee jerk reaction and try one...for real, on a trail. Then reevaluate your position.

Ask yourself honestly do you hate them because of what they are or because you feel like you missing out on the fun?

Yes they are expensive. Yes our sport is expensive and you fee like you're getting left behind after every new purchase e or analogue.
There is no real compelling reason for a mountain biker to be against an e-bike. You could say that it's "cheating". It's only cheating of you're competing. f*ck Strava!
I've done lot lot of rides where some were on e-bikes ( due to lack of current fitness for the given ride or injury etc) and others analogue. Everyone got along and had a blast. We're not saving lives here. We're having fun.

This a a time to unite as people who like to put wheels on dirt. There are plenty go people that are opposed to bikes on trails in general. This is not a time to separate into different opposing factions within the sport. Its a time to come together and be a common voice for trail advocacy. Embrace the increase in numbers and resist thoughtless hate.

Peace.
  • + 5
 Just stop with the E-bike bull shit!!! Make another site if U care so much because I don't!
  • + 5
 they should have a minimum age of 60 years old or require handicap plackard requirement to purchase and legally ride.
  • + 3
 can ebikes just fuck off, the fun of montain biking is that you propel the bike not some gay ass motor straped to the bottom of your bike. i mean really theres dirtbikes and then thers mountain bikes.
  • + 3
 I don't visit pinkbike for ebike nonsense. There are other websites for that. I visit for gravity fed fun & downhill info. I used to own a YZ but now I have a downhill bike....that why I'm here.
  • + 2
 I think it is great that Yamaha is getting into ebikes. Ebikes are the perfect solution for in city commuting and exploratory riding. If this helps bring in good looking commuter ebikes and gets people off cars, great. I hope Yamaha is just manufacturing motors. Then, the responsibility of what bikes are produced is on the bike industry. If Yamaha is just making motors, well that's fine with me.
  • + 5
 If it has a motor on it, its no longer Mountain bike, ITS A MOTOR BIKE! Stop trying to cover it with an E in the name.
  • + 5
 Ebikes are like quads...they will bring all the "people who shouldn't be on this trail" out. Can't wait
  • + 2
 RC you predicted this so well! It looks like the shift is starting - pedal-assist electric motorcycles disguised as bicycles
becoming motorcycles produced by motorcycle manufacturers. I wonder if they'll evolve into something like Alta Motor's Redshift MX, or sit somewhere in between - MotoTrail..?
  • + 3
 We (myself included), have to come to the sobering conclusion that emtb's are here to stay whether we like it or not. In the meantime I'm just going to keep pedalling with my legs my 26 inch wheeled mtb.
  • - 1
 you still need to pedal, these do not self propel, just think of it like having a 100 tooth ring on the cassette, well, nearly there anyway lol - well not quite the same, but its all about ease of the climb, but still gotrta spin those pins, just means you can spin for longer, which can equal faster climbs and that means more downs - sound OK to me .. although e-bikes aint for me, too small and weedy to throw one down a trail lol
  • + 2
 @makdthed: And my Toyota is just the latest evolution of the flintstone mobile. It is pedal assist, I still have to move my feet on the pedals for it to be propelled forward.

I have ridden a couple e-bikes, a Scott hardtail and a Specialized turbo Levo. I totally disagree with your 100 tooth ring on the cassette analogy as the pedalling would be easy but the speed would be slow as hell. But I kind of agree with you but kind of don't when you say "They do not self propel". Yeah, you need to turn your legs, but you barely have to put out any power. It's basically just replacing turning the throttle with your wrist with turning the throttle with your legs. Describing it as merely "pedal assist" is really an understatement as the increased acceleration and sustained higher speeds compared to a regular bike is pretty significant.
Having said that, I can think of a few instances where e-bikes would be great fun and great tools for exploring. Riding them on dedicated mtb trails is not one of them.
  • + 2
 the other day on off road flattish trail i saw overweight lady in her 30s on ebike. how the f***k does the ebike help her to loose weight/stay healthy (i understand that was main reason she was pseudo cycling ) more than non "e" bicycle???
  • + 6
 If it has a motor it's a motorized vehicle
  • + 4
 The problem is not the ebikes, but the bike manufactures. I will not give a single cent to any manufacturer who is selling ebikes
  • + 3
 it´s all about the money,if Pinkbike start to have more Emtb articles i´ll stop visitinting this site ( ok ,only me doesn´t make a diference but i imagine that i´m not alone)
  • + 2
 reading the comments here fills me with hope that the sport i love will not be ruined by ebikes. Hopefully pinkbike will pay attention and start supporting the content that the large majority of its readers want. Heck if it helps i wouldnt be against a small monthly subscription if it meant i got proper unbiased reviews other than £500 riding jackets and ebike fluff everywhere. Would be great to have a source of info that i could feel like had there readers best interests at heart and i would reward that as i am sure others would. could be great.
  • + 2
 I cant ever see these taking off in any sort of way with serious mountainbikers. Urban commuting is a different story. I'd never buy or own one. I dont care how much marketing is done and how many uber-friendly, hipster-corporate company reps answer concerns in the comments section pretending to "hear me".
  • + 2
 I don't understand why one of the most legendary and sought after powersports brands has to produce a product that is going to completely alienate itself from the core market of which they are entering. If you are going to produce these so called "eMTB's", then at least produce some real mountain bikes too.
  • + 2
 Well from a marketing perspective, PB and Yamaha got what they wanted... a lot of attention in the form of clicks and comments... so WE are all the suckers who are posting here. The only way to get e-dirtbike news off PB is to not click on this stuff so that it's not profitable for them to advertise here in the first place. Ok go.
  • + 2
 Here's a thought: How is a 250 watt e-bike different than a moped? They both have motors. The only difference is the type of motor.

Would the pro e-bike folks be OK with gas-powered 250 watt g-bikes? I sure wouldn't! If it ain't powered by you, it is a motorcycle.
  • - 3
 The difference is a moped will take over and you can use a throttle to get from point A to point B. Yamaha is promoting pedal assist bikes
  • + 3
 @BrantHavro: With possibility of installing a throttle on it later on...
  • + 1
 Show me
  • + 3
 Look, I really love PinkBike, however if you don't stop reporting on electric motor cycles, I will have to "move-on" to other places for news.. Yes, I am one of those "purists" or whatever you call em these days.
  • + 2
 Yamaha's attempt at circumventing the rules restricting moto bikes on publicly managed trails. Restrictions on motorized transportation on MUT are there for good reason. This is just going to quicken the demise of mountain bike use on these trails and restricted mountain bikes to squirl cage and dh parks.
  • + 2
 All this abuse is it real.
So answer this, you see an "ebiker ebiking his way along" do you verbally abuse him and shout threats? Or is it just for show on forums???
Personally I don't really care what people ride. I would just try to ride as I do. All of the above arguments would say they are shit riders with no power or skill. Should be easy.
  • + 3
 Here is the issue. Who keeps their bike stock And the mods of control boards to hack the motors for power and a thumb throttle, will be for sale once the market gets big enough.
  • + 2
 While your kicking Yamaha in the nuts you will have to add a lot of the bike companies to the list, Giant, Trek, Specialized. If you have a hate on for Yamaha include your bike brand. If you look at most of the these bikes they are not designed to be out riding mountain ridges, doing steep lines. These bikes are mostly designed for the commuter, if it means getting another car off the road then thats great.
  • + 6
 just no. kill and then burn it.
  • + 3
 Mobility bikes Though, not one ebike rider I've ever seen has had a visual disability. Just middle aged an more money than sense type
  • + 1
 iam proud to NOT be a USA citizen, you guys lives in world that not up to date! the only riders where destroy trails are riders that can't ride.. and there are many more "retrobike-Biobikers" than ebikers!!! ebikes "pedelec-25kmh" MUST be Pedal, motorcycles NOT!
  • + 1
 Guys if you don't like the idea just don't read the f....g article! Go to the next one! Really can't find the reason behind negative comments. If you don't like e bikes the don't buy. The industry will keep evolving and giving as more choices but no one is forced to buy. Otherwise ,we would still be riding hard tail bikes with 100 stems in downhill races... Same thing with every new idea. ..... when full suspension bikes appeared, there were people saying they are too heavy, they are not stable etc etc, when disc brakes came, there were people bitching about how they are not needed and that they would be easy to brake. When dropper posts came into scene, there were people saying "they are heavy, who needs them... waste of money" etc etc, Now there are the pedal assist bikes... what's the big deal anyhow, Yamaha is building their proposition to the industry, if you don't like don't buy!! Gosh!!!!
  • + 1
 I feel like people miss the big picture. When a market grows competition increases and prices come down while innovation increases.
Ebikes use a hell of a lot of the same tech as Mtb but they appeal to a new customer type. Suddenly carbon will get cheaper, tires, wheels, maybe even gearbox compatible frames, all getting cheaper!
I don't like razor scooters, but you can bet that little grommet hogging the half pipe draws more public money to the skate park than any trucker hat wearing tough guy. Mommy and Daddy love him and they gave up on you a long time ago.
Rich fat American folks who want to get out and see nature might just do it on an ebike now instead of a Polaris RZR. And when they do they will suddenly care about having more single track to ride. And they actually vote in local elections!
So forget how it cramps your style. Forget how it offends your ipa drinking, $140 helmet wearing, fox sticker in the rear windshield of your Tacoma, dog named sprocket, carbon snorting, cool guy sensibilities and just ride your damn bike!
  • + 1
 its kind of crazy that yamaha wants to do its own thing by becoming its own bike maker, im sure giant and haibike are glad to have them selling their own brand of ebikes even though theyre partners for making emtbs. sounds like a great way to piss off their customers tbh
  • + 1
 Ebikes in general are going to be a huge part of the future. Sticking your collective heads in the sand won't make them go away. Legislation will end up dictating where they are permitted, so differentiating between non-motorized trails and motorized trails will be paramount.
  • + 1
 I'm double posting this comment, and would also like to point out that any electronic do dad that uses a col-tan based battery is likely mined by brutally abused child labor in the congo. Do we really wanna add over the top human rights violations to the cost of bikes???

Long travel ebikes are actually destructive to the community. They are marketed for "self shuttlers", so you don't have to go through all that pain and suffering of pedalling or driving a pickup out to those difficult access areas. It's kicking sand in the face of trailbuilders who have worked and fought for years to keep something good for the locals, or at least those who are decent enough to ask to be shown things, rather than just demand info.
Hard access is a gateway to gapers. 160 travel ebikes will serve to ruin that. They're fine as commuters, but have NO BUSINESS on the trails!

Gearboxes are rad though. F*ck derailers!
  • + 3
 If some one comes up to me and says look, my e-bike is just like your mountain bike I always same the same thing: "o.k. then, disconnect the battery and lets go ride".
  • + 2
 ~ "Yet, it's hardly a bicycle."

You had it right in 1974, except for the bit about me "someday owning a Yamaha".

c1.staticflickr.com/3/2911/32452083674_3951dd379d_c.jpg
  • + 1
 I rode those when I was a kid!
  • + 3
 My exoskeleton motors only activate when I'm moving I'm not a cyborg I'm a motion assisted human...quit all the hatin....bwahahaa
  • + 3
 I ride motorcycles and I have never really MTB'd but if e-bikes make a decent showing, I'll buy a few! I will also bring my family to your trails and fuck your trails up
  • + 1
 I could use a very small e-bike thing on the downhill bike to get me up the hill. I can't have any trace of it on the bike going down again, so I must have it in a backpack when I actually bicycle. I don't understand why all the electric motors are so huge these days. Its 2017, we should be able to make something smaller. As usuall I will have to invent it myself. Razz
  • + 1
 The motocrross companies are developing electric motocross bikes - gas engines are too loud and pollute and people don't want them in their woods - Yamaha and company, want to open the doors with an e-bike and take it from there. The popularity of dirt bikes has severely waned over the years. Everyone rode one when I was growing up - I had one - the woods were full of them, now with so much more trail/land multi use awareness, they are disappearing. I believe this is a way back in for them. Put them on a track or just events like Enduro (motorcycles) have.
  • + 1
 Mobility bikes and their owners belong on real motorbikes. Shame on pinkbike for entertaining this field of vehicles. Im sure Yamaha paid up though eh?
Yamaha have no product to sell a bicycle rider without pushing a needless tech that perverts the spirit of what we do. I don't go to a riding website to look at motorbikes or there bloated mobility scooter owners, and certainly wouldnt entertain a pansies mobilty bike if I wanted back into MX. Certainly the same people who put emasculated men in cheap leather on a Viago are used to entertaining the whims of failed wanna bees with no balls
  • + 5
 Dearest Yamaha, fuck your hat. steven.
  • + 1
 500+ comments on a picture of an engine, I'm no internet wizard but I'm guessing Pinkbike won't stop doing E-bikes anytime soon with that kind of traffic. Put up a picture of some pedals and see how many people click and comment on that. If you don't want to see e-Bike junk then stop interacting with it.
  • + 1
 Thank you Pink Bike for continuing to publish relevant news on all aspects of mountain biking. Be it new shock technology, wheel size, gear boxes or mtb's with an e-motor attached. The sport is always changing and will continue to do so. Just as the mtb community have had to ask hikers and equestrian traffic to share certain trails with "bikes", it may be there is a new player in town with emtb and new management considerations and practices will be required. Wether or not they are good for the mtb community is not really relevant, the fact that they are here to stay and need managing at times distinctly separate from pedal power only bikes is the issue.
  • + 1
 Suzuki is also coming up with their new MTB!!!
But they have an innovation... a twist ..... instead of the dependency in batterie power and the hustle of charging the batteries . They will offer a motor powered by gasoline!!! So you can just full it on the way to the trail, have some spare gasoline in your camelback for emergency or just pump siome out from vehicles in the shuttle parking.....

They have a new name to it...instead of eMTB they will name it.... mMTB ( Motorcycle MTB) wow!!!

Super heavy duty SIGH
  • + 2
 Can I just have a 50 pound dirt bike? Twist grip, it'll take 1600 gram DH casing 2.8s, and I can pay resorts to ride up the trails instead of down! Tech uphill on moto is sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. E bikes are just dumb.
  • + 1
 dirtmountainbike.com/bike-reviews/e-bikes/e-mtbs-introduction.html
dirtmountainbike.com/bike-reviews/e-bikes/e-mtb-vs-mtb-facts.html
I'm not promoting ebikes in anyway, but people should just have a read of these two articles.
  • + 1
 @YamahaBicycles: "The more that mountain bikers can unify, the better opportunity we have to create a meaningful message to governing bodies." ~ I will never ... as in ever be partnered with the eBike community.

It's apples and oranges... this is not a "mountan bike"and I for one don't want to ever see it on any of the trail networks I ride.

I've a strong disdain for ebikes other than urban / commuting purposes and the last thing I want to see is some dimwit with deep pockets screwing up all the hard work my local trail builders put in (that they'd not be able to get to without help eg eAssist).

It's bad enough having to deal with equine issues and those that are fit enough to get there and obtuse enough not to care about their actions.

I've been an active weekly MTB rider since 1987 and if I can't get there under my own damn power I don't need to go there ~ earn your turns or support your local trail network through shuttle day fund raising events.
  • + 5
 So a Tesla car should be classified as an Echair
  • + 3
 Yes lets get unfit/disabled/elderly/unexperienced riders even FARTHER into the woods with eMopeds ... what could go wrong?


The eBike argument is lame.
  • + 5
 I did check, Www epinkmoped . com is available.
  • + 5
 Valentino Rossi soon at Crankworx ?
  • + 1
 365 posts later, only proving that American and Canada are NOT the land of the free. Fearful, yes. Cautions, yes. Something new with a whiff of political nightmare, Armageddon! I for one will continue to shuttle in my 7.5 liter Chevy Suburban, as it is the Biblical canon equivalent of the dead sea scrolls!
  • + 1
 Most trails are built by volunteers time,sweat and blood. Realistically who is and can enforce it? How are you going to kick out a rider on an ebike a hour away from trailhead especially if they can out ride you on that long climb?

The only way to do this is if trail builders, parks, landowners and government (who will side with $$$) sets the policy now with authority to fine individuals using such vehicles when they enter/leave a trail system and most likely the damage we talk about would already be done.
  • + 1
 OK, but what damage are we talking about - we will and will always have more problems with scum on stolen dirt bikes wrecking our trails, thats an ongoing problem, one of them going up our tracks will kill it in one foul swoop and bring attention to it
, but eMTB are not self propelled, they wont spin and churn up the ground, they will go a little fast UP the trail with no speed advantage down (OK- there are and have been self propelled e-bikes for years and I think this is where the confusion is) but eMTB in their core are pedal machines, in fact a pro hill climber will go almost as fast with their abnormal climbing legs on a normal bikes (those people are freaks!!) so how come the fast climbers are not called out as potential trail wreckers?
  • + 2
 @makdthed: a failed dh'er at our trails has a 1000w motor on his old gt frame. I assure you they churn the ground horrendously, destroy jump lips and leave trenches all over where they grind round and buzz back to the top. The sad fat old owner like all ebikers doesnt care and seems to enjoy the attention the damage caused by the iniqueties of his skilless riding draws.
I dont know when you last rode an ebike or pulled your head out of your mothers arse but the similarities between a so called ebike to a 100cc scrambler is hard to ignore
  • + 1
 @honkyninja: OK, no need for for that dude, have a conversation by all means, but don't be a dick just chat ..

If that happens then its not the norm at all and you know it - thats twat is not on an e-bike, if he he not using hi pedals, there will always be illegal proper motorbikes destroying trails than there ever will be modded e-bikes, there will always be douches building on private land or pushing the limits of the free access we have, and screwing it for all, - this is our main problem, yes, we build on forestry land but they tolerate it, but when people start taking the piss and building on walk trails or chopping trees, invading farm land or places where we have been politely asked not to do anything - then thats the biggest problem, e-bikes are an excuse for all sides to use as a tool for blame - its those using e-bikes as a tool that need to pull out of orifices and see that the only ones messing things up are rider that dont know where to stop, and think they can do what ever they want to any bit of land -

Everyone seems to skim over the fact that e-bikes are pedal assists and that they are self powered and everyone will mod them and thus all trails will be screwed - someone strapping a 1000w motor to a bike is next level arse for sure

the dude you are on about will be a dick on anything by the sounds, e-bikes for the masses and most users are and will be un-modded and used as intended
  • + 5
 be perfect on a road CX bike for the city
  • + 4
 @YamahaBicycles, forget the water bottle cage, how about a rack for my beer cooler?
  • + 6
 No thank you very much
  • + 3
 Soon there will be an electric machine you can step into that will allow you to run further and faster. No more worries and hassle of progression and all that boring stuff.
  • + 3
 I think I might stick with reading articles on MTBR.com if this Pink-E-Bike band wagon continues.
  • - 2
 Pedalling isn't progression.
  • + 5
 The future is nothing I hoped for.
  • + 4
 Why call them eMTB?!

I would rather suggest eMWP -standing for: Electric Motorbikes With Pedals
  • + 3
 Anyone know if they are going to make a tandem ebike?

The DH tandem mountain bike league is really only missing out on getting into the ebike scene.
  • + 5
 I like things with two wheels
  • + 6
 *grabs popcorn*
  • + 3
 Are we really comparing a 100hp 2 stroke motorbike that can spin its wheels are roost dirt 30ft in the air quickly destroying trails..... to a pedal assist ebike?
  • + 6
 I'm not, but I feel this ground was already covered in the early 1900's, and evolved into/was called a "motor bike". Take a look at early motorcycles, they're literally bicycles with motors.
  • - 5
flag otto99 (Sep 13, 2017 at 20:14) (Below Threshold)
 @Kramz: and now that technology has evolved to become smaller and more efficient we're able to come full circle and make something amazing.

omagine the first Nokia brick phones how chunky and had such crude technology, now we have iPhones..
  • + 1
 @otto99: If a friend made you that, you'd definitely be very impressed, and say it's an amazing gesture, and if that's all that matters to you, it's extremely nice. On the other hand, I worked hard and made no f*cking money, so go.f*ck yourselves.
  • + 1
 Pinkbike commenters have very low influence on the market. Here people were against 27.5", then against boost... look what happened.

I hate ebike, but I'm afraid your comments here are not going to change much...

Make sure your local bike shop do not sell them, make sure you kick ebike out of your local trails. I can't wait to meet one on the trail!
  • + 2
 emoped. that being said, i hope they are on par with that honda bike that minaar raced a long time ago. It'd be cool if they come up with some little things that improve the quality of bikes.
  • + 3
 As a loyal blue bike ride since 5yrs old I'm done. I hate Emtb and will buy Honda's from now on
  • + 3
 i know how to turn all your frowns upside down.....Have a couple of Zima's !!! BBRRRRAAAPPP!
  • + 5
 why
  • + 12
 $$$$$$$$$$
  • + 0
 Would they really ban them on trails or just place restrictions on how powerful they can be? I'm in no way a ebike fan but I do see these changing disabled riders lives! Of coarse we're going to see none disabled riders on them as well but that's were the restrictions would come in.
  • + 2
 Lol, cue that evil "mom" woman from Futurama. "My son's not athletic".............."He's ultra athletic; hahahaaaaaaa(evil laugh)"
  • + 2
 KTM soon to be bringing out their own ebike motor too, along with Husquvana stepping into the higher end ebike game too ????????
  • - 1
 They've been doing it for years.. welcome to 2017.
  • + 3
 E-bikes and pedal-assist bikes are for the truth lazy sloths of society that want the reward without the effort
  • + 4
 Its called a MOPED by definition!
  • + 2
 I feel like all of this is a misuse of this tech.... If you got rid of the pedals, and made a 50-75lb 10hp electric dirt bike, you'd probably have me on board
  • + 1
 @patrick2cents have you seen Alta Motors electric Dirtbike bike Josh Hill has been riding?
  • + 2
 @vonroder77: Yeah I think those and the KTM freerider e are good developments (and both have my interest). However, they are still relatively heavy compared to what I think you could make an electric dirt bike (and I understand why they would choose to do that, as it would be more familiar to their target audience). I think there is still a lot of unexplored real estate between a 220 lb dirt bike and a 40lb DH mountain bike.
  • + 4
 This belongs on a motorbike website.
  • + 3
 What is Whistler bike park's policy on eMTBs? Do they have one? Just curious.
  • + 6
 Verboten
  • + 0
 as far I know , none...I've seen a few dude ripping on them...think A-Line on steroids...but then again, I have to brake check nearly everytime Im about to hit a jump so I m not sure I see a reason for ebikes in the park ??
  • + 1
 Pedal assist at a lift access park when there's already tons of free single track just outside the pay to use park? Do they need to have a position? I'd wager the park staff would say something even if you were pedaling or pushing your bike up the slopes...
  • + 4
 I want the ktm freeride. Now theres an ebike i'd ride.
  • + 3
 Why is this a news item on pinkbike? Do we care? NO. This is a news item for Bicycle Retailer and Industry News.
  • + 4
 The name eBIKE is FKN LAME
  • + 4
 I can confirm that the Yamaha in my garage is a motorcycle.
  • + 2
 This is the most commented on article ive seen. Seems unlikely that Pinkbike will be moving away from ebike coverage (good or bad) anytime soon.
  • + 4
 www.PinkMotorBike.com ... Here we are...
  • + 1
 for a second there, the cover picture to this article reminded me of a dry clutch TZ250 engine cover, and i got all excited this would be about 2-stroke GP bikes. well color me sad...
  • + 1
 I was in tahoe and mammoth lakes recently and e bikes were everywhere. Shop owners said thats pretty much all they rent theses days. Just a sign of the times...
  • + 1
 They're either very lucky to not have a highly contentious land access issue in the area, or they're being screwed by these shop owners who are more interested in a money grab today than long term longevity of land access.
  • - 1
 The funny part is, so far I have only seen older men on emtb.

They don't have the stamina to ride like they used to so they bought an emtb. Now they can ride for an hour rather than 20 min and be blown out.

If it got more people involved in riding mtb bikes ? Isn't that what we want ?
  • + 3
 Either your loyal to the game or you got a motor in yo frame.
  • + 2
 I always wanted my grandma to join me ride black diamond trails. eMTBs for everyone!!!
  • + 1
 @pinkbike: KTM Bike Industries has nothing in connection to KTM motorbikes but name and place of origin. They are seperate companies.
  • + 1
 Can we just enjoy the gearbox first?

Why not develop a gearbox (front) - Rohloff/Nexus internally geared rear hub first before these motorized stuff??
  • + 4
 Yeah, No.
  • + 3
 *insert groundless/butt-hurt disparaging comment re. ebikes here*
  • + 1
 few replies yourself mate Smile
  • - 1
 I would be interested to know, how many of the haters have actually ever ridden an eBike of any form?

They still ride and feel like a mountain bike. As a dirtbike/MX rider they do not resemble, feel or ride like a motorbike in any way.

For me the distinction is clear, I have to pedal the bike and do most of the work, the motor just helps me get up the hills a bit faster.

eMTB ride and feel like a normal MTB, a bit heavier which I prefer as they track the hill better and feel more planted. I live in the UK so there are zero issues with access, and to be honest very few people even notice the difference.
  • + 3
 I openly mock anyone under 60 riding trails on an ebike.
  • - 4
flag deadmeat25 (Sep 14, 2017 at 2:04) (Below Threshold)
 Then i'd openly punch you in your stupid fucking face.
  • - 3
 Yeah me too and those that have anything bigger on the rear than a 42 teeth in the rear - pussies!!, use your own power ya wimps! god damn a-holes, I mean why the hell do they want to get up the hill quicker, only means they will have to come down the trail more often .. i mean .. what the point of that - who in their right mind want to go downhill more times in one day - beggers belief really!!!
  • + 3
 1990's = motorbikes
2017 = ebikes
  • + 0
 Ebiking sucks but shuttling for enduros doesn't? Shuttling is also motorized access. Seems like a logical extension of all the time spent driving trucks up. If you do that, you really don't have much to complain about
  • + 3
 Note to self: Stay out of emtb comments.
  • + 4
 Is this a joke?
  • + 1
 So many old people on this thread.

someone once said: If man was made to fly, god would have given him wings......

Luddites...
  • + 4
 e-bike news = fake news
  • - 1
 I don't know if it's posted already but. Just from seeing it Pinkbike is only letting us know that this is the news of today... we may like it or not but... if there's a demand for it... there's really isn't much we can do...
  • - 1
 So lots of comments from the North Americans and about 10 from the Europeans.
I am very curious how an ebike causes trail damage? Considering it weighs not much more than a low spec enduro bike or the same as a DH bike. Ok so someone can ride further on it. We would all ride further if we had the time.
Im neither for or against. In fact I actually dont care. They are not classed as mopeds etc in law in the UK and I cant see how they would cause access issues.
What i would say is that braking bumps and widened trails around puddles are caused by majority of riders and that actually does cause erosion.
I would suggest that most of you are bandwagoning and actually have no idea what your on about.
Produce a valid argument with backed up evidence of 'actual' increased damage etc and Ill listen.
Until then, emtb is no differant to fat bikes and other niche (well not so niche actually) bikes.
  • + 7
 You're not paying attention. Only a few people have commented on trail damage. Instead, the vast majority are concerned about land access. Motorbikes that look like bicycle will really hurt land access.
  • + 3
 The only argument being made there is the potential to ride further, thus covering more trail--lapping something you would otherwise only do once, for example.

That's an aside though, as the main opposition is not for the (potential) trail impacts that emtbs present--almost no one is arguing against them on that basis. Instead, the opposition is with regard to trail access. From my understanding, it's different in the States compared to most of Europe. We already have very contentious access to mixed-use trails, many groups here would like to see mountain bike riders not allowed on existing trail networks. Putting a motor on what otherwise looks like a bicycle only bolsters an argument to keep bikes off of those trails. Indeed, having a huge YAMAHA logo on the side of your bike makes it that much easier for the unfamiliar to point out such a bike as having a motor. Those of us here that are fearful of losing access to even more trails (happens every season these days) do NOT want to be lumped in with bikes with motors, even if only pedal assist, as it only strengthens a position against allowing bicycle access to vast portions of usable trail here in the US.

I would suggest most of you not living in the States are bandwagoning and actually have no idea what you're on about.
  • - 4
flag ilovedust (Sep 14, 2017 at 14:52) (Below Threshold)
 @mikealive: @defiler
So my comment is valid then. Its all speculation that an emtb (that looks nothing like a motorbike -its an mtb with a fat downtube) 'may' cause access issues. Issues which may exist currently because hardtails, enduro bikes, DH bikes, 26" bikes, 29" bikes etc etc etc have caused or are seen to have caused an issue. Therefore everyone is laying on the hate with little or no substance to their argument.
Whilst I appreciate that Europe has differant access laws (and I live here so dont know the US other than what I read here) having a whinge every time an ebike appears wont help your cause. Not least because I can almost guarantee that most 'critics' have never even seen one never mind ridden one.
Let me tell you what they are like from a Haibike I tried. Its like a slightly heavier mountain bike with a small smart phone on the bars. End of. There is a saying here which I am sure is international. 'If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it probably is a duck'.
There is so much scaremongering and speculation on the issue yet I have never seen one mention of them actually causing an issue in relation to access.
Maybe the solution to the issues in America is to do what the Forestry Commission and other big timber mangers did in the UK and create trail centres. Rather than kick all the illegal mtbers off their land, they embraced them. All over the UK they built carparks, cafes, bike hire shops, family trails, blue/red/black trails, uplifts, horse trails etc and cashed in on it in a big way. The FC would gladly accept an ebikers £3 parking and them buying some cake in exchange for riding.
I realise of course, that I have probably wasted 5 mins of my life typing this but its better than Bake Off or Made in Marbella on tele!
  • + 8
 @ilovedust: Save your tired 'you probably haven't ridden one' argument. It's a strawman seeing as how I have, in fact, ridden them. Quite a few, actually, as I worked in the industry for the past 6+ years. It's a moot point though, as those who seek to remove trail access aren't going to entertain the idea that 'if only they would ride one that they then will understand' and drop their attack on trail access for mountain bikes.

You could have just stopped yourself at the part where you mentioned "...I appreciate that Europe has differant access laws (and I live here so dont know the US other than what I read here)" because that is, as I had already stated, the whole sum of it. You can feel free to familiarize yourself with the battles going on right now in state and federal governments if you so see fit. I can assure you, there is no whining going on merely for the sake of 'hating something new and unfamiliar'. We are losing trails every season, trails sometimes *built* by the cycling community, to be fairly shared with pedestrians and horses, only to have them taken away due to an incorrect interpretation of a law originally written in the 1960s. The scope of the opposition's argument boils down to bikes, though human powered, being 'mechanized transport' and thus not intended to be included in Wilderness areas. So it has been our fight to put bikes in the same category as kayaks, cross country skis, or snowshoes (all allowed) in that they are deserving of inclusion. Now add an electric motor to a bicycle, and all of a sudden our argument gets a whole lot less solid.

This has very little to do with the infighting between mtb'ers and their fragile egos, and a whole lot more to do with mtb'ers and their public perception by those outside the sport. Personally, I could give 2 shits if someone passes me on an ebike, but to hell with the idea that I should lose access to trails I've built and ridden for years so that bike companies can have some shiny new shit to push on people. Is the fear based on 'speculation' as you say? Sure, in a technically pure sense, as we cannot see into the future with 100% certainty. But by that same logic, I am offering you a dogshit sandwich, and you must take a bite before telling me with 100% accuracy that you care for it or not. Saying otherwise is based on 'scaremongering and speculation'.
  • + 2
 Hi there i'm looking for Yamaha i here'd he was here before have you seen him?
  • + 0
 Further, there's been a fair amount of talk about this allowing disabled riders to get into the woods. Who's going to retrieve them out of cell service range when the damn thing dies and they're stuck?
  • + 0
 I can't imagine the feeling of not getting enough exercise while out on a ride and having to go to an actual gym. Pedal hard my friends.
  • + 3
 Good lord.
  • + 2
 One way or another, and I'm not sure which, this is huge news.
  • + 2
 Can they also remove the derailleur?
  • + 1
 I wonder if just maybe there may not be some gems of IP in Cannondale's failed motorbike R+D that will pop up soon?
  • + 2
 Can't wait for a Transition YZF11 or maybe a YZR
  • + 1
 Awesome! A manufacturing engineering company that is designing a bike. About time!
  • + 2
 Why not just buy a Yamaha with yz450 on the side
  • + 2
 I m here just to negprop people.
  • + 2
 Next Honda, Suzuki, Ducati, KTM, etc.
  • + 1
 It will probably cost an arm, leg, kidney, blood, and a few trips to the fertility center!
  • + 1
 Cant wait to buy a couple of these!!! Now the asshole Hiking tree hugging fuck bags wont even hear my me coming!
  • + 2
 Pinkbike please need bikes not e-bikes...
  • + 2
 WELP, BYE BYE MOUNTAIN BIKING
  • + 1
 Aaron Gwin and Troy Brosnan DH e bike launch - youtu.be/2z6mlRoICFQ
  • + 2
 Are they gonna make a short yellow emtb cause this Sh@T is retarded.
  • + 2
 I prefer when Honda look at mtb
  • + 0
 Don't like 'em? don't ride 'em, simple. No point wanking on about what we don't like when we could actually be doing what we do like.
T
  • + 3
 Who cares
  • - 2
 I'm stoked that more companies are opening up to a bike that could allow someone to ride that has never been able to before.

Lets just move past what "presumed" trail damage could happen, or the fact that someone might pass you on the trail and god forbid not be working as hard as you.

These bikes and yes they are still bikes, could help with rehabilitation after injury or just to simply get the less mobile that want to ride but have never been able to out on a trail and your going to piss on that? WHY?
  • - 1
 @bmoore34: Its not a motorcycle unless there is a... oh whats the word I'm looking for? Oh yea a THROTTLE. That's the distinguishing difference you baffoon. Pedal assist is not a motorbike
  • + 0
 So, I haven't really looked into Ebikes. What's all of the hate for? There aren't any popping up on my local trails yet, so I haven't experienced them in any way.
  • + 3
 Nope, just no
  • + 2
 Need to start calling EBikes and EMtb's what they are. Mopeds.
  • + 1
 "THEY TERK ERR JERBS!!!!"
  • - 3
 @YamahaBicycles
Does this mean that Yamaha will have a Distribution Center in Switzerland in the near future?
Or maybe even a service center?
In Switzerland Giant/Haibike eBikes with Yamaha are very popular and I think one of these things will help the Swiss market.
Let me know
  • + 0
 I guess half the posts anti ebike in America? But there's a lot more freedom in the world when a ebike is a option
  • - 3
 Lots of bullshit comments on here about E-Bikes and a lot of people slagging them off who seem to have no clue about them. Certain classes of bikes are legal by law, yes by LAW on trails in the UK. You have to pedal them and they are limited to 15MPH here. They do no more damage to trails that a normal MTB as you can pedal a normal mountain bike a lot faster than a legal E-bike.
  • + 6
 until you remove the governor, which 90% will do... www.youtube.com/watch?v=__KMvZtfiqE
  • + 1
 @teamdoa nobody goes 15mph uphill though (unless they have an ebike)
  • + 2
 Weak sauce Yama'
  • + 0
 Thanks for bringing an awesome product to us Yamaha! i would like to help in anyway I can in Washington State.
  • + 1
 at the end of the day your still just riding a motorcycle
  • - 1
 Funny all this hate from people that barely use theirs pedals and only ride downhill... not really mountain biking too, isn't it?
  • - 1
 An electric Yamaha motor?! THAT THING IS GONNA SCREAM! Well, actually, probably not...but it'll be really fast! You know what I meant!
  • + 1
 Maybe we'll see a Ducati eMTB HA!
  • - 2
 In some terrain, human power alone is not a practical option for many: hence shuttling, chairlifts. Surely those who support the idea of pedaling uphill would prefer eMTB over those other options?
  • + 0
 Same old tedious replies by those who cannot distinguish between a pedal assisted bicycle and a cr500 mx bike.
  • - 1
 "but it is possible that Yamaha's economies of scale and production efficiencies could result in lower, disruptive prices."

Finally!!! Come on Yamaha and hurry up!
  • + 0
 More Bike post please!!! It's here, try it and bring a mask to cover that smile you'll have riding it!
  • + 1
 This comments section is amazing. Shit's on fire, yo.
  • + 0
 USA Land of the free*


*Except if you want to do something someone doesn't want you do do, go merica!!!
  • + 1
 ^to^
  • + 1
 all of sudden GIANT no longer have Yamaha motors on there EBIKES .
  • + 0
 y'all too salty, but these have to be better than the kawasaki E-bikes which were at eurobike this year/
  • - 3
 I've never ridden a motorbike and I may be stupid, but I would never call e-bike a motorbike... I've seen motorbikes... and if you think that makes me advocate for e-bikes it means that you are not only an idiot but a team picking dumb head. Good luck with your cancer.

The approach of some many people here is simply making it easier for ebikes to come in as they get victimized by your bullsht. You simply put yourself in "haters" basket. As simple as that. We need people who can formulate arguments not offended snowflakes.
  • + 2
 Electric motor......petrol motor......???
  • - 2
 @sanctoin: yes look at power numbers and weight of the whole thing. Like for KTM E-SX. If you want to ride an E-bike on motorbike trails then please do - natural selection is a wonderful thing.

E-bikes are coming. Big time. And they are a problem, Closing your eyes and throwing f*cks is kind of making it worse. But it's a matter of intelligence to realize it.
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns : How is it different than that?

buyvintage1.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/1936_terrot_14.jpg

They just replaced the engine with an electric one.
  • + 7
 I own a dirt bike and a sport bike as well as a bunch of mountain bikes. In addition to the motorbikes I own I've ridden cruisers, a monkey bike, a madass scooter, mortards, pitbikes, postie bikes (Australians know what I mean) and more. Motorbikes come in many shapes and sizes. If I were to label e-bikes as anything it'd be piss-weak motorbikes with the throttle in a different spot.

I've ridden a couple e-bikes. To be honest I reckon there's a couple instances I reckon they'd be great (for me personally), neither of which are on dedicated mtb trails though.

I think the biggest problem is one people don't like to admit as it comes across as being elitist. With people touting eMtbs as great for growth of the sport it leads existing mountain bikers to question what sort of people it will attract. I mean, it's not like mountain biking doesn't already exist. If it takes an eMtb to attract someone to the sport because "it's easier" what sort of responsible trail user is that person going to be. Are they going to be the sort of person that is always too busy to attend dig days but always has time to ride. Are they going to have an appreciation and respect for the work that goes into the trails. How about their interactions with other riders not on ebikes, will the ebiker understand the effort a mountain biker is putting in to get up a climb when they catch up and expect them to yield...
  • - 2
 @lRaphl: if you can't see the difference between that and an MX / Enduro motorbike that are pretty much the only ones that are ridden in offroad terrain, then sorry man... also between motor and engine and it's appearance in widely understood "nature"... I mean... you lack fundamental recognition and logic skills. I am sorry... me explaining it will not make you better, it's years and years of education and brain training that are ahead of you.
  • + 2
 @riderseventy7: ebikes are sold as mtbs but they are faster on climbs. Quite simply they move as fast everywhere as all mtbs do on descents. That's a safety concern with expert rider in mind. Add 80% chance of ebike rider not being skilled and it's a real safety issue on mixed trails. Also for mtb specific trails which now will require riding direction mark.

Then there is the power issue. Regulations in most countries of Europe are clear: max 250W and only pedal activated motor, no idle, no throttle. Now e-bike makers fit their bikes with motors ranging up to 1200W. It is written in the deep monkey part of human brain to makes things easier and cheat the rules. People WILL hack the power control on these things. They just will.

In most of Europe Police is unable to execute the ban. There are commuter e-bikes swishing by me at +30 every now and then. Police does nothing.

It is an extremely deceptive scheme that bike companies are pushing. Not only them, moto companies are also working on short range light weight motos, they see the niche. They recognize the fact that many people are put away by the fact how heavy motorbikes are and how easy it is to get seriously injured when you crash on them.

Nevertheless, this is coming. An idea that many Pinkbike keyboard warriors have to throwing hateful words at the will stop it is just idiotic. We need to find ways of dealing with this problem. We cannot separate ourselves from ebikes either. Bicycle companies make them. People dressed up like MTBers ride them. Many haters here will jump on the bandwagon sooner or later as they get passed by ebikes on climbs.

We have to figure out how to deal with it. It's damn hard. I think the good start would be to make companies fit motors with output no stronger than 250W, if they want to call it a power assisted bicycle.. Another is: force evike "community" to create their own trails, if moto guys could do it, so can they. No motorized vehicle access on hiking trails and leave mtb community a freehand to decide which mtb trails are ok for ebikes to ride on.
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: The bike manufacturers do have rules they have to stick to... But, once they leave the shop, things may get changed... Is it the fault of a company like Trek if someone hacks programming or bolts a different motor into the bike? Then there are a ton of aftermarket emtb kits to bolt on to regular bikes.... I promise you to guy slinging those on eBay doesn't give a damn about regulations...
  • + 6
 @riderseventy7: >> If I were to label e-bikes as anything it'd be piss-weak motorbikes with the throttle in a different spot.

I could not agree more. Applying the throttle in a weird way and putting it in a weird spot somehow helps convince people in their heart that it's a mountain bike.
  • + 0
 @lumpy873: look man, if first e-mtbs come with 150-500W motors (like 3-4 years ago) and these days they are making 500-1200. What for? If not to appeal to their clients for having more power? You may say, oh, but ford fiesta goes to 180km/h while speed limits on highways rarely exceed 130 and for the most part you can't drive it above 50. Well, it is not that hard to catch someone for speeding. The regulation can be executed by Police. There is even a particular type of Police made just for that, called Traffic Police or Highway Patrol. Also, when ruding a motorbike in the woods, people hear you from a mile, you have less access points to the area, a smarter pack of Police officers or Park Rangers will get you if they try just a bit. And I know that for a fact from 3 different countries. Motorcylists have been caught after riding hiking/biking trails.

Now a ban on E-bikes is extremely difficult to execute. The dangers they cause are real. "Analog" Mountain bikes cause enough trouble. There's enough inconsiderate dick heads out there, never slowing down, out on a futile pursuit of their stupid brain only knows what kind of achievement. We are already a pardoned, tolerated shit kid in the family. We are like a weed smoking kid in a catholic family. Now your Coke sniffing dad is coming for the party, he will talk horrendous crap, take your bed, and piss in it, then possibly make everyone kick both of you out.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: I can see the difference between eMtb and MX/Enduro motorbike. But I can also see the difference between eMtb and Mtb. You see, that little "e" before "Mtb"? I'm not against electic bikes either...on the road. As commuters, they have their place in my mind. Everything that can replace cars and motorcycles for short distance commute is welcome. Be it electic driven or man driven.
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: Most Ebikes in the US are limited to 18-20mph.. So, if they are going faster than that downhill, the electric motor has nothing to do with it.. They are on a 50lbs bicycle at that point..
  • + 3
 @lRaphl: I have enough experience with e-bikes on cycling paths to see them as an issue. Nobody will hurt you by running into you. Few will hurt you if they crash a granny bike into you. Because they ride slowly. Now 25km/h and an idiot on a bike path is an issue. No more than an idiot in the car on the road. But still. In Gothenburg I tell kids to be very careful when crossing a bike path, much more than when they cross a road. Too many cyclists here behave like entitled a*sholes. Or completely dumb idiots. They are either careless or clueless.

Now take that to the woods... you know what annoys me? That it is us MTBers that will have to clean their sht. As if we didn't have enough bad weed of our own.

@lumpy873 - it will take people years to get used to bikes riding uphill as fast as downhill... as I wrote above - we have to clean their poop. I truly welcome e-bike club in my town. Please, advocate for trails, just sort your sht out on your own. I don't want to be apologetic on their part. Well I can wish whatever I want.

Bike companies have done little if anything to support any sort of trail advocacy anywhere in my hometwon in Poland or where I live in Sweden. It was the bike shops that support competitions and advocacy. But big companies just pump out stuff and wash their hands from it. It's like selling dynamite to kids who want to go fishing. Like pharmaceutical companies going bananas on antidepressants - We all know that. Does that mean we shouldn't talk about it? I mean... honestly, I am amazed that so few amateur mountain bikers take steroids and other drugs. I can't get it. I want to get testosterone.
  • + 2
 @lumpy873: Until you do this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=__KMvZtfiqE
then install a throttle (likely to be found real soon on aliexpress)
  • + 0
 @jeansebille: I gotta admit, that's pretty interesting...
  • + 0
 Hope they make sick liveries to match my wr250x. Had no interest in eMTB till now.
  • + 0
 Pinion gear box with pedal assist would be rad
  • + 0
 It could of lest been a HONDA. BOOOOO Yamaha
  • + 0
 boring aka get that sh!t outta my house.
  • - 1
 This trail erosion argument is so much bullshit i can't even put it into words.
  • + 1
 yeah erosion doesn't exist, earth is flat, 9/11 was an inside job, chemtrails are real... do you have something else ? smh
  • + 0
 @zede: Show me trail erosion.
  • + 0
 im onboard with Yamaha getting into this.
  • + 1
 Haters gonna hate
  • + 1
 701 comments! Go Ebikes!
  • + 1
 Yo Mamaha.
  • - 1
 If you havent ridden one, how can you comment wit any knowledge on the subject?
  • + 2
 have you tried riding an emtb into an active volcano......wanna give it a try?.

some things dont need to be tried to know you dont like them.
  • + 0
 Pinkbike trolls it's own fanbase. I love this place!
  • - 1
 Yamaha please send me a test bike!!! I'm in the Northwest and ready to put in some hot laps!!
  • - 1
 Ebikes, PBs leading cause of vaginal sand build up. Don't like Ebikes, don't ride one simple. I don't.
  • + 7
 Until ebikes get your trails shut down... sure
  • + 2
 @schofell84: I think you would need a doctors note to ride an ebike.
  • + 1
 Do you even upvote?
  • + 0
 SO MUCH WINNING!!!! WIN! WIN! WIN!
  • + 0
 umm...No. MOPEDs are not mountain bikes.
  • + 0
 Honda bikes version 2?
  • - 2
 Looks like a neat motor, it looks a lot Iike the bottom end of their small motorcycle motors.
  • + 0
 RAMFB...
  • - 1
 It turns out Cannondale was just ahead of their time....
  • - 1
 It'd be badass to rock a DH with KYB SSS
  • - 3
 so what
  • - 3
 Remember how upset everybody was about 27.5 wheels 3 years ago?
  • + 6
 Not quite that upset lol
  • + 1
 @jonathanmb1 well if you are comparing, you don't remember well
  • + 4
 don't lump wheel size in with this ebike shit.
  • - 2
 I'd have one
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