Yeti Cycles Will No Longer Use the Term 'Tribe' in Marketing
After over 1,000 people signed a petition on Change.org asking Yeti Cycles to end the use of the term 'Tribe' in their marketing and to change the name of all the "Yeti Tribe Gatherings", Yeti Cycles announced today that they will cease using the term.
 | When Yeti Cycles started thirty-five years ago, the founders felt strongly about building a community that was founded on racing and the belief that mountain bikes make us better people. We shared this with our friends at the races, at festivals and ultimately at Yeti Tribe Gatherings, where hundreds gather each year to ride epic trails, and enjoy the camaraderie of post ride beers and stories together. We’ve referred to this crew as the Yeti Tribe – a community of people who love to ride mountain bikes. The notion of tribe was appealing to us because it was community-centric, familial, and had strong social values. Recently, we’ve learned our use of the term “Tribe” can be offensive to indigenous people, due to the violent history they have endured in the United States. The word “Tribe” is a colonial construct that was used to marginalize Native Americans and its continued use by non-indigenous people fails to accurately recognize their history and unique status as Tribal Nations. After discussion with members of the indigenous community, studying accurate representations of our shared history, and reflecting on our values as a company, Yeti Cycles has decided we will no longer use the term “Tribe” in our marketing. The community we have built will move forward and thrive. Yeti Gatherings will continue to be our most valued events of the year. We have walked away from a word, but the soul of our community remains intact. We ask you all to join us in embracing this change. Thanks to the mountain bike community for your guidance and especially to the members of the indigenous community for educating us on this issue. See you on the trail. Chris + Hoog |
From the Change.org petition:
Although the origins of the term “Tribe” come from European colonization and dehumanization of non-European societies, in the United States, the term “Tribe” is inherently linked to the genocide committed by the United States against the Indigenous communities who pre-date the existence of this country. Tribes have survived hundreds of years of violence and systematic erasure. Therefore, when non-Indigenous people use the term “Tribe” to describe a group of people with a common interest, it belittles the history, experience, and unique status of the Tribal Nations in the United States and contributes to the exotification, cultural appropriation, and cultural erasure of tribal nations.
The United Nations Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples provides the following definition:
“Indigenous peoples each have unique and distinctive cultures, languages, legal systems and histories. Most indigenous peoples have a strong connection to the environment and their traditional lands and territories. They also often share legacies of removal from traditional lands and territories, subjugation, destruction of their cultures, discrimination and widespread violations of their human rights. Through centuries, they have suffered from the non-recognition of their own political and cultural institutions and the integrity of their cultures has been undermined. Indigenous peoples are also harmfully impacted by development processes, which pose a grave threat to their continued existence.”
Read the full petition here.
Although the origins of the term “Tribe” come from European colonization and dehumanization of non-European societies, in the United States, the term “Tribe” is inherently linked to the genocide committed by the United States against the Indigenous communities who pre-date the existence of this country. Tribes have survived hundreds of years of violence and systematic erasure. Therefore, when non-Indigenous people use the term “Tribe” to describe a group of people with a common interest, it belittles the history, experience, and unique status of the Tribal Nations in the United States and contributes to the exotification, cultural appropriation, and cultural erasure of tribal nations.
The United Nations Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples provides the following definition:
“Indigenous peoples each have unique and distinctive cultures, languages, legal systems and histories. Most indigenous peoples have a strong connection to the environment and their traditional lands and territories. They also often share legacies of removal from traditional lands and territories, subjugation, destruction of their cultures, discrimination and widespread violations of their human rights. Through centuries, they have suffered from the non-recognition of their own political and cultural institutions and the integrity of their cultures has been undermined. Indigenous peoples are also harmfully impacted by development processes, which pose a grave threat to their continued existence.”
Read the full petition here.
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In reality, my ~$10k SB130 build was funded by money saved during an eight month long deployment. In a roundabout way, my Yeti was funded by your tax dollars. So thanks!
CO are you reading this? THIS is what promotable material looks like.
Yeti Associates Inc, The Yeti Group, Yeti Consultancy Team LLC and...Yeti, Yeti & Yeti.
"wallet emptying of marriage!" pink bike got so mature in recent years ????
I'll speak for myself, an engineer, and all my college colleagues, we would fall into the "higher educated" field on those studies yet our training did nothing to equip us the world of politics or economics.
So instead of the usual "higher educated therefore better informed and more cleverer" that some people correlate to their political choices, one should do a more nuanced look at it.
But that is definitely not what mxben13 stated, which was specifically about whether there’s a correlation between education and political affiliation.
But they also tend to want less gov't in their lives. We all should.
Just look at the word Yeti. It must have come from some culture, different from the bike company's owner's. So how is that any different from the word tribe?
We didn't even make up any of the language we speak! Should we be allowed to speak it at all? Or are we appropriating all our past cultures? Should we have to come up with our own language, that future people can't use, because they would be appropriating us?
But politics is always fun to argue about.
Its funny. The ones claiming these companies are catering to those who are easily offended happen to be very offended by these minor changes.
Grow up, snowflake
I think a snowflake is someone that doesn't stand up for what they believe in, and just caves in to unjustified pressure. Like the Yeti marketing department.
Grow up, snowflake. Consider yourself lucky that you're privileged enough to where these are the issues that upset you.
I see no issue in taking part in this topic. I don’t think it’s childish or makes a person a snowflake.
I believe this kind of social justice is damaging our country. You can disagree with that. I’m ok with it. I do, and think it’s an interesting discussion.
We can agree on one thing, we are at a point where our country is so privileged that we are dealing with these stupid issues. My whole point is we need people to stop being offended by things that are not offensive. But it isn’t stopping. It a only getting worse.
Feel free to call me more names. Or we can just agree to disagree.
Haha, yeah bud? Private companies re-branding things is damaging to our country? Gee, tell us more about what you heard on Fox News.
And no, I'm not talking about the country as a whole, I'm talking about your privileged self and others caring about these non-issues. Believe it or not but a majority of the country has more important issues to care about.
Doesn’t seem like you got much better things to do either, besides stereotyping me.
And yet how much time did you waste commenting about how offended you were they stopped using the word?
Nice logic there, bud.
Not offended by it. There is a difference between being offended by something and not thinking it is a good idea or disliking it. For example, I am not offended that you have different opinion on this matter than I do. I welcome the conversation. Maybe it isn't as big of an issue as I think it is. But I think its worth a discussion.
I think you use words like snowflake, calling me offended, conservative, Fox news watcher, and bud, just to label me, so you don't have to listen to anyone's opinions besides your own tribe's opinion.
I'm sorry, are you Yeti Cycles' marketing department?
Oh, you have no affiliation with Yeti Cycles?
Well then, it sounds like you're upset over a marketing term being changed. Grow up.
Current societal times are causing brands to do some unprecedented reactionary things that are just that - reactions to whats the hot topic. Its def setting precedent to what words are considered offensive or not. If you are to boneheaded to realize that, i feel sorry for you and you should eat your own words and grow up.
I dont have to have any sort of affiliation with anyone to clearly see what is really going on, so you make 0 sense there. They are clearly opting out to the PC Cancel Culture movement currently happening. If they really were not doing so, they would have changed this mantra 10 or so yrs ago when they started to innovate with Switch - ya know give the company a "Fresh Look" with the latest tech! Again man open your eyes. Do I honestly care what they use, F-no, do i see what actually happened, F yes.
..
Bc of 800 people! Probably more like 5 people whom vote from multiple logins
And here you are being offended over a private company changing the words they use in adverts.
Check.
A privileged white male acting like the victim?
Check.
Responding with childish insults whenever he's challenged on his limited world view?
Check.
Congrats! You've scored 3 out of 3 on the Trumpie fanboy test!
Check
Continuing to make assumptions when completely false with 0 evidence in any post suggested the least while making a clear attempt to virtue signal?
Check
Providing multiple opportunities to have a considerate debate yet received typ "I am the loudest! Hear Me Whine!" type responses?
Check
Congrats!: Bonafide Left Leaning Liberal Fanboy Test: PASS
Check.
Damn, son. You're going full bone spur, bunker boy Tumper fanboy on this one aren't you?
Not concerned with a marketing term, I'm concerned with freedom of speech. Something you're country doesn't fully have yet. The group that got yeti to change has set a precedence that can be used against other companies which has a potential to trickle down to the public.
If this happened in your country would yeti be fined for hate speech and any one else who says it in the wrong place? Honest question considering how free speech is handled in your country.
How can i opt out of notifications on threads that i've commented on like this one where the only people left are the trolls and troll slayers having at it until the heat death of the universe?
Society:
Yeti: we are going to stop using the term “tribe” in our marketing.
Society: ...
If yeti have come to this position then good on them , lots of small things can make a big difference !
And by the way, I was simply stating a fact. No opinion there at all. I know you Leftest's have problems with Facts over Emotions (as well as people with a different opinion), but If Anything I said was wrong please correct me. Straight facts though, leave your emotion out of it.. Ill Wait
No, this isn't a single stand alone issue. Mob outrage, and narcissistic victimhood for internet points is a problem as of late. The woman who started this "change" has been trying to get them to change it for a while. Do you have any idea what would happen if Yeti pushed back and responded with the Etymology of Tribe? Yeti is a bike company that sells boutique bikes. They don't have the internet firepower to deal with the woke twitter mob.
Ultimately what this does is piss people off that view it from a rational middle ground as doing nothing to address the real systemic issues of discrimination or pulling minorities out of economic despair. At the same time it provides ammo to people that don't think minority groups are discriminated against at all. It creates some sense of "fixed the issue" of the latter group for minorities to even further brush it off. Changing this word does absolutely nothing but to look good online for a fake SJW keyboard warrior and her economically disadvantaged community.
You don't see the problem with censoring language?
“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
You place no responsibility on the shoulders of your fellow man?
If you allow censorship of a single word, you have already lost your freedom, allowing censorship will always lead to silencing dissenting opinions and denying open debate.
It never stops at one word, it's a snowball rolling down the mountain.
Can't say I'm surprised. The leftist members on here don't like it when they hear opposing views. Diversity of thought is not their strong point.
Pretty funny to try and read through this to get a viewpoint of what's being discussed with only 30% of the comments remain lol.
For sure the moderation of pejorative or abusive comments is a must and a few of the posts were painful to read but by deleting too many posts an opportunity to learn and educate (see my example) is lost.
Would love to hear/read from you.
I see statues toppled, I see careers ended, and much more. But where does it end? Sooner or later someone will take umbrage with every statue, so do we stop erecting statues full stop?
The only agenda needed...
You can always help someone else, Karma returns eventually.
Don't be a cee u next Tuesday.
Sorry, not aimed at you dude. It's me generalising.
Either way, this was a shit move by Yeti, people are getting tired of this whole cancel culture bullshit (or maybe I should say biological male bovine excrement to not offend you?)
I’m not offended by silly pink bike arguments. Upsetting immature boys that probably couldn’t afford a Yeti anyway.
Racism is cured! Lol
You too? Yup. It's insane. Wouldn't believe it but my comment got wiped too. Someone went off on someone else, saying I bet your white check your privileged .... yadda yadda yadda... I pointed out that racism works either way. How is assuming someone's "white" (whatever that means) and using that as basis for attacking them personally any different than doing so because you think they're black, red, yellow, or purple for that matter? Poof. Comment deleted.
Freedom of speech was designed for proper discourse. Drown out the awful ideas (actual racism and bigotry) and discuss solutions. Morons that don't realize that social media is now our public square fail to realize that just because your team is winning, doesn't mean the game is good. It's a bike site here, bigger problems elsewhere
www.marketwatch.com/story/the-real-estate-industry-may-finally-be-abandoning-master-bedrooms-after-years-of-discussion-2020-08-05?mod=home-page
Their frames are made in Vietnam.
I’d love to see one being made but that ain’t gonna happen.
Anyone have a sense?
I’m not assuming they are sweat shops or anything, I would genuinely like to see what goes down over there.
They are already charging a Yeti premium... as if the frames are made in the USA. Making them oversees in low wage countries is just pure greed.
"Product of..." still has meaning. That is, manufactured in that country using ingredients sourced from that country.
Even back in the 90s Raleigh bikes had "Made in England" stickers, but it was generally accepted that really they were merely assembled in England.
These are $3000-$4000 frames... who want to guess how much of that is profit for Yeti?
But real question are these same people offended by using the term tribe as it applies to species of animals? A tribe of gazelles, a tribe of goldfinches, a tribe of baboons, a tribe of mallards or a tribe of mosquitos for instance?
It seemed logical that a group of mythical creatures together would be called a tribe. I in no way made any connection to The North American continent or Native American culture with the use of the term tribe.
I feel bad for Yeti owners, not for this but for the fact that everyone who sees your bike on the back of your car thinks that it was made by a drinkware company.
Why is it usually the worst people who complain about free speech ?
So wrong way to step.
Now, unless you're being ironic, what has that anything to do with the use of a generic word in a marketing campaign?
"A social division in a traditional society consisting of families or communities linked by social, economic, religious, or blood ties, with a common culture and dialect, typically having a recognized leader... Called Quest."
The thing here is that "tribe" is not specific nor owned by any particular group of humans. I to am descendent of a tribe, as you are and everyone around us. I think the idea that some group can suddenly claim ownership of a universal word with intentions to censor it's use by others is a problem
If so then can I officially be offended?
I guess it depends on the lvl of education, culture and (world)understanding; basically, not being a functional illiterate.
The big problem is that it spreads around the world fast AF. I never imagined that our salvation as a society will come from Asia...and its damnation from civilized, western societies; well, we are living it!
TBH I don't know anything about this petition or whether indigenous people actually had any input on the decision (though judging from yeti's statement they did). I'm just surprised at the number of people on here who are so vocally pissed at yeti's decision with complete disregard for the nuance.
I think people are mixing up the general meaning of the word tribe a la the dictionary, and the specific context in how Yeti used it, considering where they are (Colorado, USA) and how that might appear as appropriation in the eyes of the Indigenous People who reside there. They are a proud people, who are horrendously oppressed and you must be able to see how a Colorado MTB company appropriating something that is inherently linked with them and their way of life in order to market and sell plastic bikes may come across as cheap - or even further - offensive to them. To them, being a 'tribe' is far more than simply owning the same brand of bike, which is where I think Yeti have decided they have got it wrong.
But it would be a bit assholic if someone were to first say, "hey, FYI there's baggage with that word here for XYZ reasons and I'd appreciate it you wouldn't appropriate it as a way to describe owning a teal bike" to them.
I guess I've been trying to subscribe to the mantra, "treat others the way THEY want to be treated," since I can't really come up with a good reason not to.
The word itself isn't offensive. It's Yeti's suggestion that being in their boutique buyer's club is a similar experience to being in an actual tribe. Consider what actual tribes in North America have been through and are currently going through. Now can you see how North American Indigenous people might object to Yeti's suggestion? Just to sell bikes and sell the idea of owning their bikes? It's dismissive of the real experience shared by Indigenous Americans of belonging to a tribe.
It sounds absurd to you because you do not belong to a North American tribe, therefore you cannot relate. What is absurd is grown adults getting upset about Yeti choosing to change their name of their boutique buyer's club to which has no material effect to said grown adults.
Live and let live.
Some things should not be said. Racial slurs used derogatorily, inciting racial hatred, inciting violence. I agree something arguably should be done to punish people who speak in such a way. It's a question of degree though. In this case, totally over the top, in my opinion. People may disagree with me, I can accept that. In this particular case, in my opinion, someone has decided to take offence at a totally non-offensive word, used by a group of people they have no connection with, in a totally non-offensive way; and sought to coerce that group of people into doing something to satisfy the "offended" party. I use inverted commas because it's difficult for me to fathom how someone could be actually offended by a club using the word tribe. It's a slippery slope (can I use that word?) we're on.
Today it's tribe, what will it be tomorrow? It's just totally unnecessary. First world problems in the truest sense.
There you go you said it yourself...you find it difficult to fathom and that's pretty obvious. I think you have a lot of reading to do pal.
First world problems, indeed. How about you find some North American indigenous people, talk to them about what it is like to live in the modern US as an indigenous tribe and then reflect on what you think First world problems really are.
In today's society it seems that people have the right to identify as whatever they like. A man can identify as a woman. Fair enough. Some women may take offence at a man referring to himself as a woman. Should that man be forced to stop referring to himself as a woman, because a woman finds it offensive? I would argue not. I have the right to identify as whatever I subjectivly choose, regardless of the objective truth. A club's identity as a tribe is no one's business but their own.
The one with the problem should first try to be tolerant of others, rather than trying to force others to be tolerant of them.
They wanted to evoke the feeling of community and belonging among their customers by calling themselves a Tribe, yes? However, and I stress, that they are based in the US and the US has a specific connection with the term among their Indigenous population. A minority population which has been, and still is, horribly oppressed - this is well documented. So what I am saying, and what I think Yeti has realised after consultation with Indigenous leaders (included in their statement) is that it is harmful to the Indigenous people to call themselves a tribe because in the US a tribe is something entirely different, and much more meaningful than just a 'buyer's club'. The Indigenous tribes in the US have their own culture, customs, traditions, music, art, language, spirituality, ancestry, history...all these deep connections which bond them. Not an expensive leisure item they have purchased. So when Yeti describes their buyer's club as a Tribe you can understand why the Indigenous people of the US feel this is an affront to their culture - because (except non-indigenous) Yeti owners really have no idea what is like to be in a 'tribe' right? And I mean tribe in the context of it's meaning in the US, not out of a dictionary.
I appreciate this is a lengthy reply, but I hope this at least helps clarify in some way why the petition was made. Out of interest, did you read the petition?
"The one with the problem should first try to be tolerant of others, rather than trying to force others to be tolerant of them."
QED. This, above. Anything beyond this is useless and has no argumentation value.
I would love to be treated the way I want to be treated but that's not how life works. Getting rid of racism is impossible, do people really thing that something else won't replace it? It's human nature or it wouldn't exist, ever. Maybe we'll finally get to a point of nothing but Have's and Have Not's , which to me is absolutely frightening.
Is it OK to own one?
tribe (n.)
mid-13c., "one of the twelve divisions of the ancient Hebrews," from Old French tribu or directly from Latin tribus "one of the three political/ethnic divisions of the original Roman state" (Tites, Ramnes, and Luceres, corresponding, perhaps, to the Latins, Sabines, and Etruscans), later, one of the 30 political divisions instituted by Servius Tullius (increased to 35 in 241 B.C.E.), of unknown origin. Perhaps from tri- "three" + *bheue-, root of the verb be. Others connect the word with the PIE root *treb- "a dwelling" (see tavern).
In the Biblical sense, which was the original one in English, the Latin word translates Greek phyle "race or tribe of men, body of men united by ties of blood and descent, a clan" (see phylo-). Extension to modern ethnic groups or races of people is from 1590s, specifically "a division of a barbarous race of people, usually distinguishable in some way from their congeners, united into a community under a recognized head or chief" [Century Dictionary], but colloquially of any aggregate of individuals of a kind.
Sadly, many of our PB peers to include the editors are the useful idiots of this revolution.
Camelbak - Cancel to not offend people to whom the camel is religiously unclean. Also PETA.
Diamondback - Cancel to not offend PETA; could encourage snake handling in general, religious or other.
Deity - Cancel to not offend atheists.
Evil - Cancel to not offend religious people.
Fox - See Diamondback.
Giant - Cancel so as to not offend people suffering from gigantism.
Giro - Transfer of money from one bank account to another which can only mean one thing: capitalism. Cancelled.
Guerilla Gravity - Glorifies oppressive American's revolutionary combat tactics to gain independence...er...racial superiority. Cancelled.
Ibis - See Diamondback.
Kali - Can't risk offending Hindus. Cancelled.
Kona - Cancel to not offend the people of Hawaii whom the white man has oppressed.
Liteville - Might offend obese people. Cancelled.
Pivot - Etymology is French and the did the slavery thing too so. . . cancelled.
Royal - Colonialists. Cancelled.
Salsa - Either the dance or sauce, it wasn't approved. Cancelled.
Santa Cruz - Cancel to not honor the Catholics. Also to not alienate non-Catholics. It may also offend the Guaranís. Also people who are just 'cross' in general might thing they're being mocked. Besides, their Juliana is sexist.
Scott - Definitely a white man's name. Cancelled.
Shimano - Chinese probably still mad about Nanjing (rightful so btw.) Cancelled.
Specialized - Cancel to not offend anyone that's just not that special.
Straitline - Well this one's obvious. Cancelled.
Tioga - Native American tribe name?!?!?!? Cancelled.
Trek - Cancel to not offend Star Trek fans who've been ruthlessly marginalized and mocked their entire lives.
Unno - Sounds like "Dunno" and if you dunno, you gotta go. Cancelled.
Whyte Bicycles - Unbelievable. Cancelled.
Yeti - Cancel to not offend people who believe Yetis exist.
YT - Come on, they're German? How are they not cancelled already!?
Race Face is just asking for it, however.
I've started just referring to them by serial number: #2344FD234D.
Is that the case?
#cancelsouthpark
It was all detailed in Dostoevsky's classic, Tribe and Punishment.
The name change harms you not at all, and if something so easy to change can make mountain biking more welcoming, then I am all for it!
/s
(trying to set a record for most down votes)
I hope to do my part in erasing the divide, by (for example) pointing out we are being played.
What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites.
The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal.
We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end.
One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.
George Orwell, 1984
I wouldn't personally have thought twice about this announcement other an a simple "huh, seems like a good move" before scrolling on if it weren't for all the manbabies decrying their reduced dominance in the world.
But I care to the extent to which we have allowed the lunatic fringe to redefine our language (tribe isn’t a term solely designated to Native American peoples) and our intents (Yeti never intended any such connection to the Native American peoples through the use of the word Tribe — that’s disingenuous and completely contrived).
I suppose complaining about it here in these forums amounts to about a fart in a windstorm, but in general the same majority needs to start speaking up.
Same goes for any other offensive or racist symbols. Does changing the name of the Redskins change anything at all for me as a fan of the NFL? No, not even a bit. Same players, same game, same entertainment. Does changing the branding of Aunt Jamima change anything in my life? So long as they keep making the syrup and it tastes the same why would I ever care what they call it?
Tribe
noun
\ ˈtrīb \
Definition of tribe
1a : a social group comprising numerous families, clans, or generations together with slaves, dependents, or adopted strangers
b : a political division of the Roman people originally representing one of the three original tribes of ancient Rome
c : PHYLE
2 : a group of persons having a common character, occupation, or interest
3 : a category of taxonomic classification ranking below a subfamily
also : a natural group irrespective of taxonomic rank
Do I agree with how this happened? No, but that doesn’t mean I can’t think about for a moment from others’ perspective to see how a simple word may hurt.
Ever notice how it’s only the those from the most privileged social groups that can’t imagine how words could hurt?
It’s not about you.
Holy crap - I just googled-checked my limited understanding of Latin and now there is something called a 'quidnunc':"an inquisitive and gossipy person."
I meant it in the classic sense, as I was taught.
1.
a social division in a traditional society consisting of families or communities linked by social, economic, religious, or blood ties, with a common culture and dialect, typically having a recognized leader.
"indigenous Indian tribes"
After reading this I really don't see how it would be offensive but whatever. Caving to social pressure seems to be the way things are going these days.
Basically, it's an English word we use to describe the grouping of aboriginal and native peoples. It was used long before English was even a language.
It's the same thing as saying "state" or "nationality". How can a non-native word to describe people the world over be appropriated (that is being used only to describe native people)? It's like "if your group wants to be called "tribes" and wants exclusive rights to that, what am I supposed to call native groups of people in Africa, or Australia?" Who gets to decide what words in someone else's language are now exclusively theirs?
I understand "Hana" or "Kānaka" or other native words that are used in more broad social contexts. A "tomahawk" or "pow wow" are native words that have been misappropriated. Sometimes such words can be used for commercial, or less than respectful purposes. I would also completely understand if a native people decided they didn't like being called a "tribe" (an English word used to describe their group) but if people involved in the MTB gathering are cool with be called "Yeti Tribe", then isn't it only to their discretion?
Can I still call the tribes of Israel or Rome by such a term?
To find that out you must 1st look in the opposite direction to the one you are being pointed...
How about Clan Race???
Just look at the Washington NFL team. After years of protests and pressure, the only thing that made them change is FedEx and Nike asking them to. (Their biggest two sponsors by far)
It´s become a matter of principle for many.
Let me say up front, i don´t care about Yeti Cycles, the name or any political ideology associated with the whole issue.
What does concern me however is the manner in which small vocal minority groups exert influence upon the lifes of others in the name of what they perceive as justice, while in the whole process any meaningful dialogue and debate is excluded from conversation and battle lines are drawn from the moment the issue is brought up.
Now, having a baseball team named the "Red Skins" is something i would totally encourage people to review and make up their mind about how this might be making certain people uncomfortable because it was clearly and provably used to slander a certain group of people. No questions there.
The case at hand here however, isn´t as clear cut by any means. In fact, the tribal lifestyle is something that was the standard for all human races and groups for the longest time. So for someone to come along and exclude a certain group of people from using certain words is deeply concerning to me on a fundamental level. I don´t care about anyones political orientation, but the way these things are enforced through (perceived) public pressure these days is something reminiscent of much darker times in human history and people as a whole seem to be under the impression that only the far right is capable of oppression and dictatorship.
Again, we need to have these kinds of conversations, but this is taking it to the extreme. It´s exerting power for powers sake.
Someone quotted 1984 in the comment section and i wholeheartedly agree.
There´s nothing to be gained in this case and it does nothing but deepen the divide between people.
So for me this is not an isolated matter. Blind activism like this is in my opinion counter productive to the end goal we as humans should strive for, namely living together, united as one wih our differences being irrelevant as long as they don´t impact others in a negative way.
As others have said, it's easy to see how the use of a pejorative term like "redskins" could be offensive if you're being honest with yourself. It's harder to see how a widely applicable and seemingly benign word like "tribe" could be offensive. It's a little unsettling to think that one could use such a seemingly benign word and find himself the target of outrage, etc., especially when the intent element has been entirely eliminated from the analysis.
Also, I think there is a looming sense that we may be approaching a slippery slope. It's not hard to imagine that we'll be changing the names of the Kennedy, Clinton and countless other libraries a few years down the road when it's decided that men who cheated on their wives are no longer deserving of our respect. And then it will be time to drag Magnum PI out into the streets and beat that mustache off his face for wearing Hawaiian shirts, even though he didn't know any better at the time.
Obviously I'm using ridiculous examples here to make the point. I'm not expressing my own views necessarily, just trying to answer @snl2000's question. Neither am I trying to be insensitive. At the end of the day, I couldn't care less what Yeti calls their circle jerks. Although the etymology above suggests some synonyms. Maybe they should call it the Yeti Clan?
Funny enough, scottish people probably had every right to be up in arms about the use of the word "clan".
Which is exactly indicative of the slippery slope you´ve mentioned. These things know no boundaries and they don´t discriminate. They have a way of getting out of hand, where along the way individuals will weaponize language for their own goals and the end result is something that´ll surprise us all, except for those few individuals who´ve warned against it from the get go.
As i said, this is not an isolated matter. To me, the fact that these things now start spilling over in such small niche areas is indicative of a bigger problem. Namely, the actual political landscape not being able or unwilling to facilitate necessary change in a controlled manner. However, that doesn´t mean i´m on board with what i personally consider a form of vigilantism. There´s peoples livelihoods on the line here.
My biggest gripe with the whole process however is, as stated, the lack of communication in the whole process and how i personally feel left out of a shouting war between extremist ideologies.
These changes have come out of nowhere and i personally am not ok with the way they portrait the correct use of language, which on a societal level is something that will take effect on my personal life somewhere down the road.
The big problem is in fact that this is "simply a company". An entity that should be mostly excluded from societal matters as their monetary interests do not make for a level playing field when they´re involved in decisions regarding the public. Now Yeti set a powerful precedent for how a small group of people got their will be threatening the bottom line of a company and in the process set an example for the powerful going along with a certain narrative.
In essence, they had a debate about the future of our language and the way we can express ourselves without involving the general public and without any chance of finding a middle ground or compromise (again, battle lines had been drawn from the start). Now please understand, i do not expect them to hold a public hearing about such matters. I´m not delusional. I´m simply advocating that this kind of vigilante justice is something that can only happen in very small doses in our society and only in cases where it really matters (red skins for example).
Again, this specific matter i could care less about. It´s the way and the sheer number in which these things tend to happen these days, that i am deeply concerned about as this clearly has exceeded being a discussion between a company and their critics. It has become a fight over words and expression in which a large part of the general public doesn´t actively partake or isn´t even able to do so.
I hope this makes it a little more clear, though english isn´t my first language and it may be hard for me to express my exact thoughts properly all the time
Well, i´m a proponent of the same idea and i´m not disagreeing with you there.
Again, this doesn´t affect me. I´m fully willing to say that.
As everyone else though, i have a right to an opinion and that opinion is that given enough precedents, certain actions will take effect on society as a whole.
And as i stated, i was left out of that conversation and am not able to partake in it. I haven´t bought a Yeti and i won´t do so in the future (for reasons different from this discussion), therefore i cannot influence this in any way. I also really don´t want to, as i consider this the absolut wrong platform to discuss such matters. We have actual channels to have such discussions on. Which is what i said before.
In the end, i don´t disagree with you. I just have my opinion that these things will bring about as much good as any revolution has in human history and therefore these discussions need to be held publicly and the necessary changes need to be implemented out of free will and gradually, not abruptly because a company feared for their bottom line.
To make this clear. If Yeti was to change that name out of their own free will because they thought it was necessary, i´d applaud them or at least be indifferent about it. However, the way these things tend to go down is not a cause for celebration for me, but rather one to be concerned about how change is brought about in our society at the moment.
People want to hit others over the head with their opinion until they comply. To me that is not (real) change.
I would like to see these things grow organically, which would actually involve exactly what you said, the consumer voting with their wallet, therefore any corporate change acurately reflecting societal consensus.
This is an endless discussion though and none i want to take any further as we seem to reach a territory where absolutism becomes the standard as i never said it´ll erase a word from our vocabulary. I simply stated it´ll affect the way we use language and how i personally am able to communicate, which is something i´m not willing to accept. I simply take offense with the way these things happen and how they tend to further the divide among people, for which this comment section is an utterly ridiculous example (not us in here, but the rest of it!)
People getting called Nazis for factual statements that didn´t even involve an attack on anyone or anything is something i consider a rather bad side effect of this whole situation.
If someone doesn´t feel the same way, that´s cool.
I however wanna see things play out in a different way as i reckon it´ll produce a more sustainable future for everyone.
@snl1200
Basically, yes. I wouldn´t say victimized. I don´t care for them. They´re a company and they arguably managed this without any damage to themselves.
I am fully willing to admit i am not seeing this as a free committment to being more inclusive or whatever we may call it though.
I may be TOTALLY wrong about that.
I was just answering your question why people take offense.
I guess a lot of us have just become willing to accept that these things are not voluntarily happening most of the time. It may be cynical, but that´s how i feel about it.
As stated above, i see this comment section and can do nothing but wonder if life for these people will actually be better in a few years when all those who are allready fed up with it will inevitably be influenced in their behaviour towards them. I kinda fear general "minority bashing" (contrary to the bashing of a specific minority) will become an actual thing because people feel justified because they are getting really annoyed (not my sentiment!).
The orwellian part to me in this specific case is the fact that to me the word has no negative conotation in any way. Quite the contrary actually, and this may also be a big part of why i take such offense at it. If we consider it a word that belongs to some culture (a concept i really can´t grasp), imho it´s still cool others are willing to use it and identify with that culture. If it is just a basic word, tagging it as problematic is something i am considering dangerous, given the ease with which people are willing to accept this label.
This certainly is something that is affected by our heritage as well though, as most europeans probably would agree that this whole war over words and cultural appropriation is something that appears quite strange to most of us. It may also be partly me being german that i take offense at weaponizing language as we´ve seen all too well what happens when that becomes the norm.
Good night guys, take care and thanks for keeping it a civil discussion! Something that is not too common anymore!
Ah, we´re getting to the meat here!
I guess that´s just two different ways of viewing it.
I just assume that when someone has to be told to do something, it always leaves doubt as to whether this is something that would have happened otherwise.
Again, i´m cynical like that and this case certainly is not clear cut in any way. It may as well be totally trivial and once they got told about it, they were totally behind changing it as you assume. We can only speculate.
I however would like these things to play out more like this:
- Company does market research
- Comes to the conclusion something isn´t vibing with consumers
- Changes said thing
In light of recent events i just find it hard to suspend my doubts about such petitions being followed voluntarily.
Also, the problem i have with a petition being equal to actual market research or other intrinsically motivated reasons is that these petitions probably are signed by a high percentage of non customers, at which point it is in fact not the market driving the decision, but a small activist group asserting pressure by riling up the potential buyers over corporate non-compliance at which point the petition is only a means to an end. I think there´s a distinction to be made between the two, especially in a case like this with a relatively low number of signings.
Also there´s too much risk associated with bad press for any company, even if the customer base is totally not affected by it, to not deal with said bad press. Not responding to a petition like this will lead to controversy and is something that needs to be dealt with, unrelated to how the customer base feels about it.
That´s where to me personally it drifts too far from the original idea of "pleasing the customer" and the customer asserting influence through this mechanic.
You´re not wrong though. Is guess it depends on your level of cynicism and general worldview.
This isn't about this case in particular, it's about cancel culture rewriting history and silencing dissenting opininons.
If people keep marching down this road, we will have an actual dystopia in the very near future, hell, you could reasonably say we're already there.
[Reply]
I should try to be more eloquent in my thoughts.
I don't think reconciling our histories is a slippery slope. I work in mental health and have specialized in post traumatic stress work with children for well over a decade. I've sat with kids who have been through atrocious things and then listened to those around them tell them they should get over despite the role it had on shaping their biology and approach to the world. A key aspect in moving forward in a healthy way is discarding simplified notions of god/bad, or moral/amoral, and replacing them with more complex understandings that the things people do are both good and bad and we need to find better ways to honor the good while also standing against the bad. History is complex. Jefferson wrote that all men were equal while being attended to by a teenage slave who clearly wasn't viewed as equal and whose sister he later fathered children with when she was in her pre/early teens because she was his property. These are disturbing things to view through a modern lens. Do they erase the fact that Jefferson was also a political reformer, was more open to progressive ideas than his peers, and without the steps he made the freedom of the protesters to protest his statues might not exist? No.
Yeti made a choice to listen to a group of people, to learn about their perspective, and to change a simple five letter word to something that will be more inclusive for all. Good for them. On a small scale I hope we can look at our interactions with others and where possible make choices that make those around us feel safe. This is a different thing than descending into anarchy, mindlessly holding onto the past because of fear of an unsure future, or allowing power systems that we believe keep us safe to crumble. The positive and negative aspects of these things should also be discussions but to simplify and generalize what happened with Yeti as an omen that the world is collapsing in on itself isn't the perspective I'm taking. Not discussing and responding to the harms done is also erasing history.
Yeti weighed up the situation and decided to change it , shouldn’t be a big deal !
These types of cancel culture and erase history movements are what has generated all the responses in thus thread. It’s not the semantics of the word, it’s that a small group of people have somehow been given power over the majority. Now it seems they are drunk on that power and can’t stop wielding it.
The fact that this happened following fake outrage by people looking to take offense to as much as possible, does echo the current political climate, wether we want to admit it or not, and no matter how Yeti choose to word it, they did it due to pressure from a small group of politically motivated people.
This happened as part of a broader attack on one of the most important liberties that exist anywhere in the world, freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech is something that the majority of the world's population don't have.
It is one of the most important contributions to humanity that ever came out of the USA, and something that people die for in some less fortunate countries, and people taking it for granted and excusing attacks on that liberty, I find extremely disturbing, even evil (nobody ever considers themselves to be evil though).
Saying that this is just about this one case, is extremely naive, and in a way I wish I could disconnect and think that way too, but I can't, not anymore.
I do see your point in how some words could be hurtful to some, but you can't go neutering language to appease those that might be offended, even if they legitimately are hurt by it, because the end result is much worse to so many more.
Censoring language can never be looked at in such a way, it is extremely dangerous, as it can and will facilitate further degradation of human rights.
It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies.
The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth.
This very kindness stings with intolerable insult.
To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals."
-C.S. Lewis
I think this quote is quite fitting.
As a middle aged man with hairy back/shoulders, can you please change the name from Yeti to something else? Every time I see it zi feel shame and anxiety.
You're a business company ffs - a private entity that exists for the sole purpose of acquiring as much capital as possible and as such you're not exactly qualified to lecture anyone about values and social responsibility. Take a f*ckin seat.
As much as I disagree and think they shouldn't give in to cancel culture and the woke mobs, I don't blame them either. it sucks, but they have to give in. As a company, its easier to take some heat from some fans than to be destroyed by cancel culture.
To those dissenting so vehemently, what is so objectionable about a company changing their marketing language? This does not change the product that they make, or even the events that they host.
All it does is open the door to other folks who may have previously found the terminology they used offensive. Were the "offended" justified? That's not your call to make, nor is it mine. But Yeti saw that it was a small enough change that could make more people comfortable, and there is no logical reason that NOT using tribe should offend people.
To all those complaining about the "true etymology" of tribe and the sorry state of the world, get bent. You're the real keyboard warriors and you aren't very good at it.
See pretty easy to be offended, so are you going to change your profile flag to something more inclusive to stop offence?
UK: footballers take the knee, no one bats an eyelid.
The idea that a word should fall out of use because a tiny subset think it has become a pejorative is laughable. That ends with us grunting at each other because we've woked all the words out of existence.
mid-13c., "one of the twelve divisions of the ancient Hebrews," from Old French tribu or directly from Latin tribus "one of the three political/ethnic divisions of the original Roman state" (Tites, Ramnes, and Luceres, corresponding, perhaps, to the Latins, Sabines, and Etruscans), later, one of the 30 political divisions instituted by Servius Tullius (increased to 35 in 241 B.C.E.), of unknown origin. Perhaps from tri- "three" + *bheue-, root of the verb be. Others connect the word with the PIE root *treb- "a dwelling" (see tavern).
In the Biblical sense, which was the original one in English, the Latin word translates Greek phyle "race or tribe of men, body of men united by ties of blood and descent, a clan" (see phylo-). Extension to modern ethnic groups or races of people is from 1590s, specifically "a division of a barbarous race of people, usually distinguishable in some way from their congeners, united into a community under a recognized head or chief" [Century Dictionary], but colloquially of any aggregate of individuals of a kind.
Even though Yeti is now in a different part of CO, Durango has a history of serious indigenous baggage.
It's basically a border town to multiple reservations and the college there, Fort Lewis College (which is likely the only reason Yeti ever started there) started as a Indian Boarding School which were created for the sole purpose of destroying and assimilating Native culture.
Looks like the term "Yeti tribe" was being used back in the DGO days which means that term has far more baggage behind it than many people automatically think.
www.tolerance.org/magazine/spring-2001/the-trouble-with-tribe
Bet half those signatures on the Change.org petition are from people that have never pedaled a bike, let alone rode a yeti.
Kudos Yeti.
If you're actually upset by this move then maybe try learning about another word, "empathy".
Anyway, I'll carry on riding my yeti (for the record, I'm not a dentist) and not worry about this any further.
I began with the Foreplay before I found the G-Spot. Interestingly enough I also ended up with an STD at the end of it all. Got rid of mine shortly afterwards
Umm... A stiffee...
The term, “tribe” originated around the time of the Greek city-states and the early formation of the Roman Empire.
Just my opinion. At least they are trying to do the right thing....? Too bad taking just this approach is as stereotypically removed, isolating, annoying, elitist and contemporarily as white as white can be. So woke Yeti.
Whilst we all get distracted by this story about subjugation, genocide and a change of our outdated colonial attitudes; Let us not forget that we (USA/UK/France/etc) are currently providing the weaponary, equipment & training for the subjugation & genocide of the Yemeni people... Amongst many other.
How about we all get upset at actual atrocities going on right now.
So YETI don't be a hypocrite, you need to change the NAME OF YOUR COMPANY and not simply getting rid of the use of the term "tribe." Hypocrites.
Yeti
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In Himalayan folklore, the Yeti (/ˈjɛti/)[1] is a monstrous creature. The entity would later come to be referred to as the Abominable Snowman in western popular culture. The names Yeti and Meh-Teh are commonly used by the people indigenous to the region, and are part of their folk beliefs. Stories of the Yeti first emerged as a facet of Western popular culture in the 19th century. The scientific community has generally regarded the Yeti as the result of a complex of intricate folk beliefs rather than a large, ape-like creature.
We ova inna tribe haffe call to a nation
So inna direct communification
Heal your wounds in dysya bloody dimension
Because the end could be a violent solution
Words are not dead create revolution
We haffe grow
Nation we call, words heal them all
Rock dem tribal, cyan never fall
Ram de dance hall, warrior prepare fi de end
Tribe to a nation
We grow!!
All we do is believe
No turning back
We fall from our wounds, but these words aren't dead
He who lives must be prepared for the end
Change is the law of life
No falling back
We fall from the wounds, but these words aren't dead
He who lives must be prepared for the end
Push up, mash up, get up, stand up, tribe up,
Feel up, rise up, turn up, sing up, shout up,
Speak up, move up, hail, look up, free up,
Crash up, jam up, seal up, sign up, stick up,
Push up
Tribe to a nation
We grow!
Makes a great backing track for an MTB edit.
ok, still don't get it but I guess not using this word won't hurt either. Typical example for "yeah ... whatever"
If you go with Beth and Trevor Jordache it's allowed. I think fictional patio dwellers are okay.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot
Next time you’re thinking about heading out to your local trails on your SJW powered mtb, try to remember this petition and consider sticking to the climbing gym or hot yoga studio until the industry confirms to more of our demands!
The English word 'tribe' comes from the Latin 'tribus', derived from 'tri' (three) and the Indo-Greek word 'bhu' (to be). It was first applied to the three tribes of Ancient Rome - the Latins, the Sabines, and the Etruscans. Thus, each tribe would "be" of the "three". This morphed into the Greek φυλή, which was used in the earliest translations of the Bible when referring to the twelve φυλή, or tribes, of Israel. The Middle English 'trybe', as found in John Wycliffe's 1380 work "The Clergy May Not Hold Property" (which references the 'trybe' of Levi), also derives from the Latin 'tribus'. Eventually, Myles Coverdale, in his 1535 translation of the Old Testament, coined the modern English 'tribe' (e.g., tribe of Asher, tribe of Levi, tribe of Dan, etc.) - a full 72 years before Captains Smith and Newport ever set foot on Turtle Island. And during those 72 years, the word came to be used in reference to the various Celtic families/subdivisions in the British Isles. Familiar as they were with the word both from the Bible and from its application to the Celts, the English colonists eventually applied it to the Powhatan, the Wampanoag, and other Indigenous groups. Over the centuries, the term was adopted by many Indigenous groups (Passamaquoddy, Walla Walla, Puyallup, etc.) who continue to use it to this day - as is their right.
So, no, contrary to what the white saviors who wrote that petition claim, the origins of the term “Tribe” DO NOT come from European colonization and dehumanization of non-European societies; and no, in the United States, the term “Tribe” IS NOT inherently linked to the genocide committed by the United States against Indigenous communities, any more than are the words "gun", "camp", "tent", or "land". Claiming otherwise insults the intelligence and autonomy of Indigenous peoples by implying they need to be "protected" from the use of an everyday English word with millennia-old roots in actual India.
In so insulting those intelligent and perfectly-able-to-speak-for-themselves people, Yeti has permanently lost at least one customer.
Big ol statement about 'systematic racism'..
Oh ok, so majority of people are racist huh.
P.S. My tongue is placed firmly in cheek throughout the entire typing of the above. There is a slippery slope to slide if you want to make everything completely unoffensive, and f*ck that! How boring would life be without a bit of rancor. Truly offensive names like The Washington Redskins should definitely change but a fookin bike company? There are "tribes" all over the place.
Get a grip people, then get the other one and point your handlebars somewhere fun.
next thing you know I can't say I'm gonna go cut my grass... the medicinal users will be offended
Got it. So don't use tribe cause it's bad BUT it's perfectly acceptable to still use the term TRIBAL nations??
I'm so confused.
And perhaps that's the issue. Folks who don't feel comfortable in the bike industry/with the brand because of the language that's used.
What's so offensive to you about a marketing change? If it makes even one person feel better, great. And if them not using the word tribe anymore makes you feel sad, I think you've got to reevaluate.
1. When companies listen, and willfully change when they realize that the language they use is offensive
2. Making fun of Yeti owners
You could have opened a can of worms there...
Hang on...
So how about the US actually get to grips with this issue and rather than making piecemeal 'shop window' adjustments to marketing language and actually deal with the root cause problems such as (a single example) zoning laws, rather than throwing up politically correct smokescreens. People of colour are discriminated against and the focus should be on 'how' and 'what' we will do about it, not changing a marketing name. Real action takes bravery and real action and I see none of that here. Sick of the noise and the lack of action on this topic.
-So, will removing "tribe" will get us more or less sales?
Period.
z-p42.www.instagram.com/broken_yeti_tribe
If the answer to either question is, "No", then you don't get to be "offended". You get to take a look in the mirror and ask why you would care about a term you claim has no significant meaning?
This term has major baggage, especially here in the States where the American government has tried to exterminate native people for centuries and still screws them over at pretty much every turn. And trying to fall back on the Latin etymology or European usage is a cop-out, as is claiming that it's not "as offensive" as other terms.
And no, I'm not native. I have had the privilege of working with tribal nations (as in, federally-recognized tribes, which is a legal designation that has major implications) in my previous profession and got to experience first-hand how terms like this and the history they carry still hurts deeply.
So bravo, Yeti, for making the right decision regardless of the impetus, pressures, or reasons.
Oh, and "cancel culture" isn't a thing. Free speech doesn't absolve you of repercussions for saying stupid or insensitive things. And again, if you actually get mad at people being held to some degree of accountability for the words they use, what does that say?
BEER and SPOKES: "P.C. bull$hit. Quit bitching and go ride."
Ryanrobinson1984: "aaaaaaaaaaand this has gotten ridiculous."
chriskneeland: "Redskins I get. Tribe is a little silly."
There are more. These comments show a lack of respect for people of color. What's worse? a white person having to grapple with the discomfort from realizing that that what they said offended someone, or people of color, specifically indigenous folks, being made to feel further ostrichsized in a predominately white sport. These comments say to native people - we don't care what you think or feel. It's not outright hate, but it's not acceptance or understanding either.
Also, being ostrichsized is a new one - is that when your legs get really long and skinny and you keep burying your head in the sand?
chriskneeland: "Redskins I get. Tribe is a little silly."
in need of a moderators removal?
One option is active moderation - someone write's an ignorant comment and then a moderator responds with why it might be offensive to say said comment. In that scenario pink bike would be actively helping to educate it's user base, which would fit with their recent commitments.
Another option would be to remove negative comments like this one. I'm not a moderator, so I'm not going to hold your hand to help you understand how this could be offensive. If you care to understand, do some reading.
One option is active moderation - someone write's an ignorant comment and then a moderator responds with why it might be offensive to say said comment. In that scenario pink bike would be actively helping to educate its user base, which would fit with their recent commitments.
And to be clear, clarification to you is recommending that someone "get help" when they provide quotes and an answer to a question? If so, I worry about your ability to process and absorb new information.
Assuming you agree with that point I'll zoom in on this article and these comments specifically - comments like the ones I quoted make native people, and people of color more broadly, feel excluded from this community. The comments I quoted communicate the point that white people don't care about feelings and thinking of native people, and those same comments fit into a broader societal dynamic where native folks specifically, and people of color more broadly, are physically and systematically exploited.
I love mountain biking and I don't like seeing one of the main hubs for mtb information being tainted by toxic trolls. I can't tell if you're a troll or just someone who's arguing from a place of ignorance. I'm not trying to be smug or claim to have all the answers, but if someone tells you something offends them, what do you lose by not saying that thing? How does your life change by not calling the Yeti fan boys a tribe? This is not a slippery slope to communism or government thought police or whatever weird conspiracy bullshit people like to spout. This is a simple action that you can take that will not affect your life in anyway that will help another group of people. Again, what is to lose?
Right now, whether it's your intention or not, the thinking and actions of people like you help to keep others out. I hope you can see that one day.
Personally I could care less about what Yeti calls those who ride Yeti bikes, it is all their marketing BS either way. Considering that, I would not see any reason to keep the term in use when learning someone is not happy with it.
@mgough33 is commenting on Pinkbike's commitment to a welcoming space by pointing out ways that the space is absolutely not welcoming. A great service he is doing that he does not have to do.
Frankly most people should listen more and talk less.
My user name was my nickname in college wrestling after a lunch that ended poorly
Yep- That is how stupid this argument is.