Examining Yeti's Patent for a New Six-Bar Suspension Design

Dec 7, 2020
by WheelBased  
Yeti six bar patent

Words by Dan B. at Wheelbased



In this article, we’ll be discussing a Multi-Body Vehicle Suspension Linkage by Yeti, US publication 20200247500. The publication date is August 6th 2020 and the filing date was Jan 31, 2020. This patent is related to numerous provisional applications.

Brief Summary (tl;dr)

Yeti have created a new 6-bar suspension system that utilizes a similar Switch Infinity-type concept, where the bottom pivot moves upward to an inflection point and back down at the end of the travel. Unlike the linear movement of the Switch Infinity, the bottom pivot of this system has a non-constant radius of curvature, unlike the linear system where the radius of curvature is zero and unlike a circular motion where the curvature is constant. Yeti claim this may improve anti-squat and anti-rise numbers. More importantly, Yeti claim the 6-bar system will allow the designers more freedom in separating kinematic dials such as anti-squat, anti-rise, and leverage ratio.

Yeti six bar patent


Background

There are multiple rear suspension systems in the mountain biking industry, such as Horst-link, single pivot, VPP, and Yeti’s Switch Infinity to name a few. All these suspension systems provide unique kinematic characteristics, allowing us, as consumers, to argue about which design is the best. Each system turns every single kinematic dial in such a way to produce a bike that will perform how the manufacturer wants the bike to perform.

For a little technical background, we’ll define some important vehicle dynamic terms. Instant velocity centers (IVC), physical instant velocity centers (PIVC), and dynamic instant velocity centers (DIVC) are used in all suspension design. An IVC is a point of a moving body that does not have a velocity at a point in time. Additionally, Yeti defines PIVC’s as:

bigquotesPIVCs are defined at the pivotal axes or virtual pivotal axes of jointed linkage body members. There are four PIVCs in a 4-bar linkage while there are seven PIVCs in a 6-bar linkage.

In other words, the seven PIVCs are physical pivots and do not need to be derived. You can view them on the bike as it sits. DIVCs are migrations of IVCs, so they’re moving IVCs. In this article, we’re only going to talk specifics about the PIVCs, or else this article will be 5 times longer.

The number of IVC’s of a suspension system can be calculated using the equation:

Yeti six bar patent

where N is the number of total number of IC’s and is the number of links (bars). In the case of a 4 bar system, there are 6 total IC’s. In the case of a 6 bar system, there are a whopping 15 IC’s. These IC’s are what controls the feel of our bikes.


Yeti six bar patent


Intended novelty

The intended novelty of this part of the invention is the same as the first part. The bottom pivot has a non-linear migration path, unlike the current Switch Infinity system. The complete Yeti system is a 6-bar system, but the Chebyshev 4-bar system of this invention contains non-opposing links driving a pivot in a non-linear migration path.


Why

From a practicality perspective, Yeti claim multiple advantages of this design. Yeti state:

The smaller envelope of the linkage design as disclosed herein can have several advantages structurally: For example, there is more clearance between the rear tire and the suspended body allowing for a shorter distance from the driving cog axis to the driven wheel axis. This can be a performance benefit allowing for quicker turning. The added tire clearance provides more room for dirt and mud that can build up when riding. This added clearance also allows room for a larger “bridge” tying together the drive and non-drive sides of swingarm body which aids in torsional stiffness. The added clearance in front of the driving cog axis provides more room to fit a water bottle and other accessories within the frame of [front triangle].

From a kinematic perspective, Yeti further claim that:

The smaller envelope of the linkage design as disclosed herein can have several advantages kinematically because there is more freedom to locate PIVC 45 and therefore a greater ability to tune parameters such as antisquat, anti-rise, and leverage rate which translates to greater performance. Also, PIVC migration paths are able to have an extremely large minimum radius of curvature, or unique curvature profiles with inflection points within this small linkage envelope. This is not possible with traditional links and allows for increased tunability of suspension behavior”.

So, Yeti believe this is a more tunable, and refinable suspension system for the future.

From a compliance perspective, in Fig. 2.16, Yeti show a rear view of the seat tube with both the current Switch Infinity system and the proposed suspension system. They claim that

…6104 is horizontal distance of the linkage interface between swingarm body 1002-E and link body 1005-E. 5105 is horizontal distance of the linkage interface between swingarm body 5002-E and link body 5005-E. It is clear 6104>5105. The wider interface as disclosed herein allows for a stiffer interface between swingarm body 1002-E and link body 1005-E which translates to a stiffer interface between swingarm body 1002-E and the suspended body 2. This allows greater performance by improving the handling accuracy of the vehicle.

In short, the wider profile of the proposed system would provide more stiffness, leading to better handling. Note in figure 2.16 how much wider and shorter this new system is compared to the current Switch Infinity system.


Yeti six bar patent


What

Yeti are introducing another design for the same idea of having a non-linear migration path of the bottom pivot. Again, this is a 6-bar system with a pivot that is not concentric with the shock link pivot due to the solid swingarm. The result should be similar to the current Switch Infinity system with an inflection point and a reversal of the bottom pivot. The important distinction is that the linear migration path of the bottom pivot in the current Switch Infinity system is not the same as this invention. Yeti aren’t 100% clear as to what advantages this design has over the first example.

Yeti state that this design is similar to the design from the first article, but not exactly the same. Yeti say:

…embodiment 2 [example 2] exhibits similar anti-squat, anti-rise, and leverage rate properties, although not identical. The higher anti-squat percentage is for pedaling efficiency in the beginning of the travel while the lower anti-squat percentage minimizes the anti-squat force where bump absorption takes precedence. Thus, suspension performance may be improved through the interrelationship between the 15 IVC migration paths.


How

We’ll start with some brief background. There are 3 different states of a Yeti bike; an extended state (E), an inflection state (I), and a compressed state (C). As with the Switch Infinity system, Yeti like to use an inflection state, where the bottom pivot of their suspension system changes direction. The extended state is a static, no-load state. The compressed state is fully hucked to flat state.

Figure 2.1 shows the proposed suspension system in a fully extended position. The swingarm (component 1002) is attached at PIVC 1045 and PIVC 1046. The upper pivot of the swing arm pivot is linked at PIVC 1046 and pivots around PIVC 42. The swingarm is also attached to a bottom pivot system. This bottom pivot system is the novelty of this invention. It’s important to remember that PIVC 1045 is the bottom pivot that is connected to the swingarm and will be performing the up-down movement.


Yeti six bar patent


Figure 2.11 and 2.12 shows two detailed views of the seat tube with the suspension in an extended state and a compressed state, without the swingarm. As the bike goes through its travel, the shock is compressed around PIVC 1042. Again, the swingarm is pivoting about PIVC 1045 and 1046. Here’s where it gets tricky. There is binding in the system due to the swingarm being a solid piece and the lack of concentricity with the 2 pivots. This is solved (and was solved in the Switch Infinity) by using a movable bottom pivot (PIVC 1045). Yeti have a few different configurations of this design that we’ll talk about in this section.


Yeti six bar patent


Figure 2.8 shows a simple point schematic of the bottom pivot system from Figures 2.11 and 2.12. Again, note the E, I, and C as extended, inflection, and compressed states. As the bike goes into its travel, the swingarm PIVC 1045 travels upward to an inflection point then downward during a fully compressed state. Note the two lines marked with a ‘2’ are the swingarm. The only pivot points that are not moving are PIVCs 1040 and 1041 (attached to the front triangle). All other points in the system move during wheel travel.


Yeti six bar patent


There is a concentric rotation of the shock link body 1006 around PIVC 1042. Consequently, because the rear swing arm has zero pivots, this rotation is not concentric around the pivot link body 1005, which is constrained by links 1003 and 1004. This entire proposed configuration is based on a system called a Chebyshev 4-bar system. The Chebyshev 4-bar system constrains a point (1045) with two non-opposing links (1003 and 1004) in such a way that the point (PIVC 1045) moves in a nearly straight line, using the two links (1003 and 1004) rotating around two different pivots (1040 and 1041). In the case of this invention, links 1003 and 1004 move point 1045 nearly linearly, but not quite. Figure 2.26 shows an example migration path of PIVC 1045 through the bike’s travel. As you can see, the migration path is not quite perfectly linear.

Yeti describe the migration path of PIVC 1045:

The radius of curvature is not constant and varies throughout the entire migration path. This is not true with linear motion [old system] where the curvature is 0, or with circular motion where the curvature is constant [other manufacturer system].


Yeti six bar patent


Well, that’s the geometry. Now let’s talk about how they’re implementing the concept on the bikes.

Aside from the typical shock linkage, there is a small device behind the seat tube, just above the bottom bracket. Figure 2.15 shows an isometric view of one of the proposed systems installed on a bike compared to the current Switch Infinity system. Note how much smaller, wider, and simpler this new system is.


Yeti six bar patent


Figure 2.14 shows an exploded view of the same system. As you can see, the configuration appears to be smaller and possibly simpler/lighter than the current Switch system. There are two links, 1003 and 1004, attached to the front triangle. These links are then attached to link 1005. This is the Chebyshev 4-bar system.

Yeti don’t state any more examples of this system, such as flexible brackets or anything of the sort. It appears as though this is a simpler system compared to the Watts system.


Yeti six bar patent


When?

When will we see this system released on a new bike? Well, according to Yeti, not any time soon - "We are constantly developing and exploring new ideas. However, not all R&D projects make it to production. We have several test mules of various suspension designs that we’ve been on for years. At the present, we are planned out through 2023 and this patent isn’t in our production line." All the same, it's interesting to get a glimpse at what's being developed, and to examine the different elements that make up a new suspension system.


304 Comments

  • 632 6
 Yo dawg, heard you like linkages so we put a linkage in your linkage
  • 108 0
 Dinklage likes linkage-in-linkage.
  • 82 3
 Are you making fun of me?????
  • 13 4
 This better be included in the next edition of comment gold.
  • 8 7
 How many linkages until the prices are fair... didn’t work for trust
  • 105 0
 I just read this whole article thinking that maybe I could understand it. I cannot.
  • 55 1
 I got so many Links they call me Zelda
  • 34 19
 Whatever keeps those dentists happy.
  • 22 2
 All of this talk about linkage is making me hungry for breakfast sausage. Mmmm
  • 9 0
 @moefosho: doesn't work with just the pictures either. I'm hopeful of a first ride article with video by tomorrow 0900 Vancouver time.
  • 10 9
 @vjunior21: If they dont make it look over the top dentist might stop buying it... So more links
  • 7 0
 @mikelevy: "Linkageception" Starring Yeti. Featuring Infinity Switch. Coming soon! Only in LBS'
  • 17 0
 Knolly's getting ready for a new 16 linkage suspension. It's the logical outcome of their FOURBY4 (4x4?) suspension...
  • 15 0
 Grim Donut 2 will have now have 12 bar linkage system.
  • 20 0
 The only links worth caring about are made of sausage. These types of links do not have to be heat treated and are best left unattended on a cheap table cloth.
  • 2 1
 You mean a knolly @mikelevy
  • 4 1
 Danny Hart to Yeti new 6 pivot DH bike! You heard it hear first haha
  • 5 1
 Does this mean you'll come back to the podcast & give yourself comment gold? I've heard from other Pinkers you get a dozen donuts mailed to you for comment gold....
  • 3 0
 This is great, way more room for a bottle.
  • 3 3
 Yo dawg, we heard you liked paying a lot for a TURQ frame so we designed a moar expensive one.
  • 3 0
 talk about a rebuild in yer local basic shop and the price of parts..........also ...if you don't know how to tie a knot use as many as you feel is needed
  • 4 0
 Yay! Something w/ more moving parts than Switch Infinity, what could possibly go wrong?
  • 4 0
 @scottlink: Read that in the voice of The Great Cornholio youtu.be/YoPVC4YxDlI
  • 1 0
 @Nygaard: LoL The Great Cornholio! Pure jokes m.youtube.com/watch?v=LHv2dIM3t9I
  • 9 0
 "nice linkage you got there. It would be a shame if something happens to it"
-every rock on the trail
  • 1 0
 @m1dg3t: Infinity link got cut, for demanding too much, roll on side kick?
  • 3 0
 @Hardnacks: I don't think I'm eligible for comment gold TBH Frown
  • 1 0
 @ratedgg13: 4 times better
  • 5 0
 A prime Xzibit of comment-whit.
  • 2 0
 Yeti, silent partner in "Enduro bearings" by the look of it
  • 2 1
 @whiteboarder: I think you may be the only one that got the joke. sad times we live in
  • 320 1
 And the engineers at orange lean back in there chairs scoff, take a sip of tea and shout to dave in the welding bay, move the bearings up a mm this year....
  • 94 0
 Or maybe an eccentric mount for the rear swing on the Orange so the rider can change pivot point location for more, more or more pedal feedback.
  • 1 0
 Excellent ????
  • 3 0
 This is gold.
  • 1 0
 spot on comment!
  • 16 4
 Nah, they are too busy working on cracked-weld warranty claims
  • 9 0
 my theory is that they tried to clear as much space as possible inside the lower part of the front triangle....gearbox's in the future. Or to more streamline a motor integration
  • 7 0
 Nah, they just spend half a year trying to find the wording to justify moving the main pivot 3mm backwards and 2mm upward, just as it was back in 1998.
  • 6 0
 Awful lot of confidence dave in the welding shed is getting it within a mm every time.
  • 214 1
 Cliff notes version:

-Yeti's original Switch used an eccentric link to let the main pivot move around a little through the stroke and let them tune Things, but the eccentric pivot meant that they designers could only use a very sharply curved main pivot path, and they wished they could make that straighter for Reasons.

-Switch Infinity changed out the eccentric for a pair of stanchions, so the main pivot path went from Very Curved to Perfectly Straight. The designers rejoiced at no longer being limited to a tightly-curved pivot path! Apparently the grass was not so green as they had hoped for over in Straight Path land and the designers started pining for a little curvature back in their toolbox.

-This newest version has a whole little linkage system just to, once again, control the path of the main pivot through the stroke. And because it's a linkage and not a single, short eccentric link or a straight path, the designers can adjust the pivot path to basically whatever they want. A happy medium? Only dentists will find out.
  • 4 0
 hahahaha ded
  • 27 0
 #bringbacktherails

Just wait in another couple years they'll just go back to the 303DH rails Razz
  • 4 1
 @NorCalNomad: Put the 303 on a carbon diet and let er rip!
  • 2 1
 "only dentists will know" their gx build is going to be more than the Bullet xo1
  • 5 1
 The even more condensed version, they wanted to control the leverage ratio and anti squat separately. That is the real reason for the new design. This also happens to be the exact reason that Specialized went to a six bar linkage on the Enduro as well.
  • 9 0
 Surely this is just a cheaper way to make the Switch Infinity. The Chebyshev linkage is for producing approximate linear motion. And by approximate the math people mean really darn close. The real question is will those savings allow a non dentist to play Richie Rude.
  • 7 0
 @sokantoivo: this! A few bearings (or bushes, as the movement is so tiny) and a few little bits of CNC must be cheaper than those two very carefully aligned kashima coated tubes and the sliders which also need to be carefully aligned to avoid binding.
  • 4 0
 All these efforts not to pay fees for a Decathlon's patent.
  • 3 0
 So, putting on my tinfoil hat. Third party sliders from fox/kashima is expensive. And make the bottom link go straight up and down. Now they use a Chebyshev link (I learned a new word) to make the bottom link go straight up and down. Cheaper and I guess more tuneble. Great success Yeti
  • 1 0
 @mountainsofsussex: not that difficult to align. You constrain one rail then use the carriage to align the second. If they were non cylindrical it would be a lot more difficult.

We do it daily at work with linear bearing guideways over much greater distances both between rails and along them.
  • 1 0
 I texted nearly the exact same thing to my brother in law when I first saw this patent last week
  • 74 3
 Big thanks to Mike and Brian for posting this, and big props to Yeti for pushing the sport.

And thank you to everyone reading this article, I'm really happy to contribute to everyone learning something today.

Here is the first article too: wheelbased.com/2020/11/22/multi-body-vehicle-suspension-linkage-by-yeti
  • 23 4
 They just need to get back into DH. Loved what they did for the sport back in the day. It's a shame they couldn't see that DH was the F1 of the sport and valuable for more than just selling DH bikes. I mean look at the other top Enduro bike manufacturers. Most of their technologies come from DH.
  • 7 3
 @z-man: Well if you look at bikes that have won EWS recently not many of them have DH bikes or share much with DH bikes in their line-up.
  • 6 0
 @z-man: I also agree that it would be great if Yeti (ehem, every gravity focused brand) had a DH bike.
  • 11 0
 This is part of a 4 part series of articles. The next two will be about an integrated flex pivot and a motor/gearbox.
  • 1 0
 @WheelBased: Great, keep them coming!
  • 5 1
 @ptrcarson:

To the contrary. Cannondale, Ibis and Yeti are the only EWS winning brands that haven't pulled tech or talent from DH.

Santa Cruz and Specialized have based large portions of their full suspension line-up on their DH technology.
  • 15 18
 >big props to Yeti for pushing the sport.

Making high end bikes expensive that do nothing better than anything else out there is the exact opposite of pushing the sport.
  • 10 0
 @phops: to be fair yetis almost look like a value buy compared to some more common brands now
  • 1 0
 There was also a second part:
wheelbased.com/2020/12/06/multi-body-vehicle-suspension-linkage-by-yeti-part-2
I really liked the solution with the flex bracket! (fig 1.60 first part)
  • 1 0
 @WheelBased: the shimano gear box????????
  • 5 1
 @phops: the best engineering is usually the simplest... This is just silly.
  • 2 0
 @z-man: Switch Infinity is an evolution of the 303 rails and Rude used to race DH for Yeti, so your list is even shorter.
  • 3 2
 Thanks for writing these articles, they are interesting to read but I find it hard to keep focus in this case where the design seems so patently overly complex and pointless to optimise a design that has already been superseded.
As long as the chain is going straight from the crank to the rear wheel there is very little freedom to design "better" suspension. Just chose your level of compromise and design a four bar chain to get close.
As soon as the chain is diverted over an idler then REAL design freedom opens up, we can have rearward axle paths and make significant advances. Sure there are problems with efficiency and chain length growth but better to take the improved suspension paths and look at the new problems.
  • 1 5
flag healthy-not-sick-biker (Dec 8, 2020 at 6:12) (Below Threshold)
 @z-man: No wonder their bikes are crap!
  • 4 0
 @jaydawg69: You know what's simpler than a hammer? a rock. The best engineering achieves a desired outcome. If a single-pivot or 4 bar doesn't achieve that outcome then no matter how simple they are they simply cannot be the 'best'. That said... I don't have money for that 10k hammer, so I'll stick with my rocks.
  • 1 2
 @nzandyb: not sure what the switch infinity is trying to achieve... a 4 bar can pretty much do anything and combine it with a high idler, it's going to be a way better system than Yeti's... and not complicated.
  • 1 0
 @ptrcarson: I wish Santa Cruz would take enduro seriously. They don’t even try with their bikes or their riders.
  • 1 0
 @santacruz-ing: I think both Santa Cruz and Spec are the best examples of the enduro bikes being built off DH bikes and neither bike has won ews. I wish Santa Cruz was more serious about Enduro too but they put lots into their DH so I can forgive them. The brands that are winning enduros are not ones that have big DH products or their DH stuff is nothing like the enduro bike like the Meta. The old enduro did but that suspension was built up from the epic not like the old demo at all.
  • 1 0
 @ptrcarson: DH is the F1 of the sport and has way more spectators... makes sense to spend the $ where you have the most viewers.
  • 1 0
 @jaydawg69: I agree with you personally, I happen to set an alarm to watch the Euro races live. I not sure a brand needs to have a DH team to make good bikes like the guy I originally replied to was implying.
  • 60 1
 the Grim Doughnut announcement has scared the industry!!
  • 52 0
 As a tech who does a lot of bearing services, I want to know how many cartridge bearings this will have, how many bearings will be proprietary sizes, and how many will be in blind holes.
  • 43 0
 All of them.
  • 32 0
 Answer: Yes.
  • 8 0
 Have you pulled apart a spesh lately? some of their frames use 14-16 bearings for a simple horst link.
  • 10 0
 *looks at Santa Cruz * thanks for putting them in the linkage!
  • 5 0
 @Solorider13: wow, yes! This is seriously an underrated advantage of Santa Cruz bikes!
  • 2 0
 The most important comment here. Also, how do the pivot's axles locate & secure to the bearings? What are the axles made of? Are bearings single/double shielded?

I have another manufacturers '6-bar' suspension layout, and even with my own tools and wholesale on bearings, it still adds up to a lot of $$ every season.
  • 11 0
 Yeti refers to them as glory holes
  • 3 0
 @WinoBot: a bag full of bearings = cheaper than 2 kashima tubes plus wipers and bushings...
  • 1 0
 This linkage will be easier to service than the switch infinity with the two kashima things and the fox stuff though probably, right? I have not serviced one before, I am genuinely wondering if doing some bearings would be an easier service
  • 2 0
 @skelldify: one thing i love love love about my santa cruz is how easy it is to overhaul the suspension, even compared to my treks. Its really not a hassle, and doesnt even need that many different bearing sizes.
  • 51 0
 Did anyone actually read and understand all that, I just looked at the pics.
  • 13 0
 Average PB article reader: "Uh, looks good I think. The thing I really need to know though is can I still drink a beer after I ride it?
  • 5 2
 I'm doing my masters in mathematical modelling and I don't really get it from a quick glance haha. I think maybe that little thing down the bottom changes in length throughout the travel which results in changing radius of curvature for the rear triangle. Maybe this causes a more rearward axle path? If I wasn't so busy I'd love to mess around with this on MATLAB or something and see how a system like this behaves. I've done it for 4 bar systems before but never even thought of anything like this.
  • 41 0
 Average Pinker - does it have a threaded bottom bracket tho?
  • 7 0
 can i fit a water bottle between all that linkage is all I care about!
  • 4 0
 @Tormy: Hey maybe this new "patent" six-bar suspension design by Yeti is all about the water bottle...lol. This is Yeti's comments: "The added clearance in front of the driving cog axis provides more room to fit a water bottle and other accessories within the frame of [front triangle]".
  • 9 0
 You read the article? Just skip right to the comments, they will tell you all you need to know!
  • 3 0
 I've seen all the pics and I don't even understand the pics.
  • 1 1
 @mattmatthew: same, couldn't they just put it in simple English for us, these looks like the diagrams they send to their engineers
  • 4 0
 @Boxmtb: I did a summary at the top that simplifies the whole thing into a few sentences so you don't have to read it.
  • 1 0
 Friend, you are not alone.
  • 3 0
 @nouseforaname: Yesssss
  • 1 0
 first photos, then straight to comments. creature of habit right here...
  • 1 0
 @hugh-dh:
Hah, as a mechanical engineer i love it when i understand something better or faster than the full on math/physics guys.

On the other hand i had exams about this stuff, so no sign of big iq here...
  • 43 3
 Let me sum this up:

The first Yeti sb66 used the Switch pivot suspension design, engineered for them by Sotto Group, ex- Santa Cruz and VPP engineers. After Yeti was sick of paying royalties and wanted a new, head turning look, they came up with their own in-house Switch infinity and threw Kashima on there back in 2015 when people were still kinda impressed by it. Now they are sick of paying Fox for Kashima royalties, and have realized that the rail system is cool looking but not practical, they want to switch back to a 100% pivot system to solve these issues. They can't go back to the first design, so they came up with their own thats just different enough to get around the patent(s) owned by Sotto Group.

They all perform identical enough that 99% of us can't tell the difference. Hell, any single pivot (even an Orange) will pedal just fine if you flip that little climb switch.
  • 2 0
 I believe this is what you're referring to. See figure 4:

patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/bb/00/f0/853ee86454022f/US20090261556A1.pdf
  • 13 0
 They should cut the engineer-speak and just tell us we'll get 5% more Strava kudos with six bars instead of four.
  • 4 2
 "rail system is cool looking but not practical, they want to switch back" did you see what I did there?
  • 4 0
 A single pivot bike will pedal very well, just fine, average, poorly or very bad depending on the location of the pivot in relation to the chain line. Yes, a single pivot bike can be up there with the best in pedalling ability (with zero suspension lockout).
  • 1 2
 @DavidGuerra: yes but a true single pivot will have a straight leverage curve.
  • 2 1
 @jaydawg69: Not straight, most often regressive if there are no shock linkages. The linkage design might make the bike look more or less like a "true" single pivot, but all single pivots are "true" no matter the linkages.
  • 2 0
 Perfectly Stated! Agree. Or just go w DW link and avoid the need for a climb switch and expensive repairs.....
  • 34 1
 Now yeti owners are 2 classes higher and 2 linkages better than me and my lowly stumpjumper
  • 2 0
 I have a single pivot Yeti...so not all Yeti owners
  • 26 0
 7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office....
  • 8 0
 Why? Cause you're f**kin Fired!
  • 4 0
 ...and that's why we're going to steal the declaration of independence to stop the gay frogs right?
  • 1 0
 I'm gonna start my own company. You want in?
  • 2 0
 7 minute abs!
  • 27 0
 Me: "My bike's making a funny sound, I think the linkage has a bad bearing."
LBS: "Which one?'
Me: "I don't know, you figure it out."
LBS: "That'll be $450.00
  • 16 0
 Pfff...that’s like 2 fillings
  • 4 0
 @ReformedRoadie: it’s called drilling, filling and billing for a reason Wink
  • 22 0
 This is a system designed to mimic the function of switch infinity, but through a different mechanism, that will allow for the placement of a motor... an eBike is coming... I am calling it now... maybe not soon, but it's coming...
  • 9 1
 Why would a brand that prices exclusively for the low-risk midlife crisis demographic be interested in adding motors.... Oh. I think perhaps in 2030 fox live valve, ebikes, suspension driven carbon 29ers and self driving technology will evolve into a new product that allows you to run over mountain bikers while texting.
  • 6 0
 You are correct. That will be article 4. It has a motor/gearbox.
  • 3 0
 Totally. This is for sure part of the motivation.
  • 2 0
 Wow, didn't even think of that aspect. I guess that's a big part of their reasoning. It seemed like one of their other ideas was to make their chainstays shorter too from the sound of it, but I could have read that part about the axis's wrong... a confusing article for someone who is not yet an engineer
  • 22 0
 Hey Yeti PM me - I’ve got a great idea. It’s an 8 bar linkage. Like a six bar, only moar. Moar links, more pivots, more axle path migration.
  • 11 1
 Hey Yeti PM me too. My idea is...wait for it...a 10 bar linkage system.
  • 8 0
 @vjunior21: sheeeet. Why didn’t I think of that?
  • 7 0
 6 minute ab's?
  • 4 0
 @Tormy:
You definitely can't get an ab workout in five minutes.
  • 3 0
 @Tormy: 5 minute abs!
  • 4 0
 @vjunior21: my idea is... wait for it... make frames out of Jello. By using jello we essentially have infinity pivots as everything squishes.
  • 2 0
 @Mtmw: the best part is that was put out in 2004, and when i go to the site now there is an add on the side for a freaking 5 blade razor with an aloe strip!
  • 1 0
 5 bar linkage - one less link to deal with and make the Yeti more symmetrical. Wink
  • 22 0
 Hardtail, bar none.
  • 1 0
 I appreciate that.
  • 18 1
 After reading this, it seems to me that this patent is simply a proposal to fix the many shortcomings of their current system. Namely poor tire clearance, lack of kinematic tuneability due to space restrictions, excessive flex within the lower linkage, and poor durability. Yeti are only looking for their next pseudo-quantifiable marketing gimmick. Simply adding pivots (a la DW6 or 3VO) and linkages is never a fix-all, there are always trade-offs. Buy snake oil if you choose, but in reality many other simpler (and lower-maintenance) systems already have these issues very well addressed.
  • 2 0
 Thanks for putting it so straight. Having Giant, DW and the VPP family dominating the dual link layout really gets some nasty concoctions out of their hideouts.
  • 2 0
 I think the best part is how Yeti keep stating that they have "engineered" a certain amount of flex in their SI-bikes, and then you read this patent stating that one of the upsides of this design is that it lends to a stiffer frame Big Grin .

(Not to mention possibility for shorter CS, more tire clearance, sturdier rear triangle... Maybe not every detail of a bike is as "engineered" as the companies wants us to think Wink )
  • 2 0
 @eldsvada: Usually flex refers to vertical flex (for comfort). Stiffness is usually in reference to lateral and torsional flex.
  • 4 0
 @MaplePanda: Not when you're talking about a full suspension bike, having an undamped spring in the system is far from optimal Smile
  • 15 0
 Nearly the same linear motion as the Switch Infinity, easier to manufacture a frame around, no need to pay Fox/Kashima for 2 little stanchions, and possibly easier on maintenance. Just have to make sure those links are stiff enough, use a mud guard and change all those wittle itty bitty beawings evewy wonce and a wile...
Good move, Yeti.
  • 15 1
 As a tall person who's summarily excluded from Yeti's sizing I'm glad that the dentists can hash this one out on the trail. It's a neat idea - wonder when we'll see first prototypes.
  • 10 0
 Too bad they didn't have a DH team to learn about the advantages of a longer wheelbase.
  • 2 0
 @z-man: that’s what you get when your multiple time world champions like sizing down
  • 2 0
 Woah, you must be freakin' tall. I'm 191cm (6'3) and quite comfortable on their XL.
  • 15 1
 Gotta hand it to Yeti. probably have the most over-engineered suspension design out there.
  • 11 0
 And like the over-engineered German tanks during WWII, it looks great in pictures but has little advantage, significant disadvantages, and as soon as it requires maintenance, you wish you went with something simpler and more elegant.
  • 5 0
 @Mac1987: yeah but it's a yeti right?
  • 2 0
 @Curse-of-the-foot-long-sub: definitely, I'd hang a poster of it above my bed Wink But when it comes to riding, I buy something different.
But if someone likes this bike, please buy it! Your LBS will thank you twice.
  • 6 0
 Whereas most brands pushing out great bikes are going for less pivot point and making bikes ride great with it, Yeti is adding more pivots, cost, weight and uneccesary complexity. Like Switch Infinity wasn't enough. Soon it will be more cost effective to get new bike than to service an old one.
  • 1 0
 this is probably lighter than switch infinity, i mean u got less kashima tubes and slidey fox parts. The whole bottom bracket area is way thinner. but yeah... more pivots usually suck for services
  • 7 0
 Anyone else skipped the txt and just jumped through the pictures?
It would take me at least 10 dumps to go thru all that text
  • 8 0
 Oh good. An even tighter set of linkages to jam rocks and mud into.
  • 8 1
 What's a $10k Yeti frame look like?
  • 3 0
 Spotless, cuz it only gets ridden on XX trails on nice days!
  • 1 0
 *XC
  • 1 0
 designed by this guy then refined into this.....not sure what happened to tantrum bikes though

www.pinkbike.com/news/first-ride-tantrum-missing-link.html
  • 1 0
 @rabidmonkfish: He was fairly active on the mtbr forum for a while, but I haven't seen any updates in a while. He was gaining followers and the people that did buy the bikes really liked them.
  • 1 0
 @andwrong: out of town customer came in with a Tantrum a couple years back. They look much better in person then on their website. Went riding that evening and traded bikes for a couple laps. Seriously impressive bike. Wildly good climber, almost hardtail efficient but still clawed over rough stuff like an enduro bike. Very planted and stable on the descents. Cornered okay and popped like a waterlogged old skateboard, but that might have just been the shock tune. Kinda sad they didn't take off...
  • 6 0
 I'd still rather have a Starling.
  • 4 0
 And despite all these linkages, having owned, 4 different yeti, the most fun one was the single pivot ASR5c with a 140mm fork on the front.
  • 3 0
 Would have been cool to see a comparison to the DW-6 linkage on the Atherton/Robot bikes, which is similar in its layout although I believe done primarily for structural reasons.
  • 1 0
 Vorsprung alias
  • 2 0
 Cool explanation. There are a ton of really sweet linkages out there... but 4 bar linkages kinda just work, are inexpensive to produce, easier to clean, and are easier to service. I even dig the DW linkage as it only adds one more pivot. Stoked companies are working hard to push the sport though.
  • 2 0
 Talk about being a fish out of water. I barely understand how the linkages work on my new 2021 Rocky Mountain Growler. Wink This 6-bar stuff is crazy talk.

Although, R&D and CI are key to bike manufacturers. If you ain't creatin', you be hatin'!
  • 3 1
 I'm holding out for a suspension design that no longer needs a shock at all. Using a few thousand links, actually millions of links, between revolutionary new bearings call "atoms" we can achieve near 100% pedaling efficiency through the "suspension" with zero pedal kickback, no anti-rise or anti-squat, no brake jack, and instantaneous trail feedback.
  • 3 0
 Call it "Link Infinity"
  • 6 0
 I have read the article and concluded that I'm not an engineer.
  • 6 4
 This is a classic example of over engineering . Bikes like this will be relegated to the super bike category where most people never venture . The sport is currently being promoted by the industry pushing their most expensive products , that go faster , placing the buyer in an elite category of pretentious prestige . There are still a lot of great bikes that no one ever sees because they are too vanilla . i was looking at the Cube website yesterday and noticed some really nice hard tails with mid range shimano components and such and realized that these are the type of bikes that most people CAN buy and will have for a very long time . The bicycle industry needs to remember that there are more people that DONT ride fast or jump their bikes or crash into trees at high speeds and never will . If they lose their bread and butter market they will soon collapse.
  • 4 0
 I would’ve guessed Yeti would be the first massed produced frame that retails for over $5k...
  • 5 0
 Proudly made in Vietnam
  • 6 1
 Inventions are cool and all, but CBF already exists.
  • 1 1
 Hells yeah
  • 2 0
 YES YES YES!! Canfield forever
  • 5 0
 I like your funny words magic man
  • 1 0
 6 bar is so yesterday, if it's not an 8 bar with 1 air shock, 1 coil shock, 1 elastomer shock, 3 rebound controls, 3 low and high speed compression adjusters, a chain pulley system, bushings and sealed bearing pivots and lockouts for each shock than I simply can't ride it.
  • 5 0
 KISS Keep it simple stupid! More complexity, more problems!!!
  • 1 0
 Hahaha, "they've gone full literary Britbong, fast as gas, what are they trying to pull!?"
  • 2 0
 Amen. I knew your KISS post would show up here somewhere.

A senior engineer once told me it’s easy to design something complicated and difficult to design something simple.

I can appreciate Yeti’s Engineering effort. Driving a computer 8 hours a day 6 days a week is rough.
  • 1 0
 Not all the way through the article yet but I’ve got two problems so far. The first being the formula for finding the number of IC. Can’t figure out how that applies to a single pivot or a VPP type of suspension. Could just be me not “getting it”. I understand it regarding multi bar linkages but shouldn’t the formula apply to any suspension’s IC? Secondly regarding figure 2.16; I’ll be damned if I can find 1002e or 5002e. I’m assuming they’re referring to 1001 and 5001 but can’t be sure. Ok I’ll continue reading now.
  • 1 0
 Ah, the never ending search for a USP / Visual Differentiation from other Brands.

It's perfectly understandable, with a bicycle 'it's' all out there for people to see, and drool over, if you make it trick enough (and, it actually works as well as it is touted) - heck I've been well paid over many years to do those very things for various companies. But, my own frames, that I'm perfectly happy to keep down to low double figures of production, I keep pretty bloody simple.
  • 1 0
 TLDR, "we hired a child to explain something very complicated, and the results are catastrophic". "Also we've visibly cavitated our seat tube to the point, it looks like you're walking, and left unmentionable numbers everywhere". "From this we derive great success".
  • 1 0
 Yeti has great appeal with the switch infinity, however I am certain this turned away Rock Shock fans and OEM RS builds from something as simple as a logo. Maybe a good strategy for fox lovers, but that's shunning the other half.
  • 1 0
 Yeti should definitely produce a DH bike, even if they are hand built out of Aluminum. Oh and while they are at it, if they would like to sell some more bikes produce an e-bike. Like it or not, bike makers need an e-bike in the line up, otherwise their loyal base will buy another brand. If you can afford a Yeti, you can probably afford and E-Yeti. I would gladly sell my Turbo Kenevo for an E-Yeti.
  • 1 0
 How's it going to handle typical British weather and the mud and grit. I'm can see a lot of cost on maintaining and replacing bearings. The typical Yorkshire conditions are why orange keep it simple. Great article but can hardly understand 'owt'.
  • 3 0
 That's a sweet linkage but we all want you to build an insane DH bike and sign Blenky again.
  • 1 0
 If it means the DT where it meets the BB won't be a near 90 degree angle and prone to acting like a bash guard for my bash guard, I'd be very interested. That plus SI maintenance and all those parts go away.
  • 4 0
 No, that equation is all wrong. It’s n+1
  • 4 0
 This makes me like my steel single pivot bike even more.
  • 4 0
 Now I understand why I love BMX so much.
  • 1 0
 Anyone else annoyed by the weird use of Yeti, like "Yeti claim multiple advantages", "Yeti further claim that", "Yeti believe". It seems like it should be "claims", "believes", thought that was hilarious
  • 6 0
 In this case, Yeti is plural. Singular would look like: @boxmtb reads poorly
  • 4 0
 Still no threaded bottom bracket...
  • 4 0
 It’s what you do when you need to make room for a motor.
  • 1 0
 So they actually mentioned water bottle mounts in a patent application? I’m an Orange single pivot guy myself. 2 bearings to change annually and only 1 IC. I can do that math. Quadratic equations are too hard for me.
  • 1 1
 As long as the dentists and lawyers dig it, it will sell. right? And if it is the turquois colour... Stop it @yeticycles Just make the people happy and make a proper DH bike and semi affordable Alloy trailbike.. Stop dicking around.. Wink And yes I own 2 Yeti's.. A ASR SL and a 4 Cross Special projects..
  • 2 0
 Damn that is intense Eek it has way too many linkages for my liking. Imagine all the sand and gunk that will collect inside that !!!!!!!!
  • 1 0
 One thing to note here is this design opens them up to applying their kinematics to an e-mtb. It gives them more room to work with. I bet this has to be part of the motivation.
  • 1 1
 Yeti, what you've just applied for is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent filing were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your sales.
  • 4 0
 Single pivot ain't dead
  • 4 0
 Thanks for the TLDR
  • 1 0
 It’ll be really fun checking all of these pivots, I’m pretty sure to keep track I’ll need an assistant: 1 three, 2 three, 3 two, 4 three, 5 one.....
  • 3 0
 two more linkages, two more thousand dollars
  • 3 0
 Easier to package around a battery and ebike motor...
  • 4 0
 How many bearings?
  • 2 0
 My thoughts exactly.. trying to figure out how to get in on the e-bike cluster poopoo
  • 3 0
 This going to toughen up the rear swingarm at all?
  • 3 0
 6/4 = 1.5

1.5 times better than 4 bar... get some
  • 2 0
 Just like with the DW6 those bearings down there look awfully small to me...
  • 2 0
 Whats Weagles 6 bar thingo on the Robot Bikes Now Atherton Bikes look like in comparison?
  • 1 0
 This brings back nightmares from the era of teeny “lightweight” bearings that get notchy after testing the rebuild out in the driveway.
  • 1 2
 Didn't read through all of the details, but my bet is this is a way around the VPP and DW patents which was the reason Yeti dropped the Switch for the Switch Infinity in the first place - they're not "allowed" to build their switch concept with two counter-rotating short links and had to come up with the sliders as a way to keep the basic concept (of an up-and-down pivot point) alive.
Beyond that, I don't see a whole lot of utility to a 6 bar in this location.
  • 1 0
 The patent on vvp is up.
  • 2 0
 This looks cool but I’ll just wait and read the last paragraph of the Pinkbike review when it comes out.
  • 4 0
 ....creak
  • 1 0
 yet another overly complex linkage system to drive shop & home mechanics crazy w/the sheer number of pivots to maintain - what a potential nightmare
  • 1 0
 Uhhh.... but where does the Kashima go? This is the largest problem Yeti needs to sort out before they can even begin to think about production!
  • 1 0
 More pivots equals more slop.. and more "warranty my bearings bro".. and ultimately more comments on Pinkbike.. FEED THE BEAST.
  • 3 0
 Six Infinity. SB 106 SB 136 SB 146 SB 156 SB 166
  • 1 1
 Not my cup of tea. Too many pivots, too many bearings, too many moving parts, And a lit more maintenance for my opinion. Love the Yeti when it was simple. My ASR-5 were amazing, using nothing but a single pivot.
  • 2 0
 Add a few more and the bike can walk: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXXJ1LOqHEk
  • 1 0
 I hope Yeti does not plan on examining potential future owners of this bike to test their understanding of the suspension design before purchase...
  • 1 0
 Yeti have created a new 6-bar suspension system that utili...**Yeti owners and dentists* "shaddap and take my damned money!"

Kidding ya'll, I'm kidding!

...or am I?
  • 1 0
 This has more to do with when their current patents expire than a new technology that is going to be demonstratively better than what they use now.
  • 2 0
 I am eagerly awaiting some anti-dentite quips
  • 2 0
 Ok, now do it English....
  • 2 0
 "Super-dookey link with a fisherman hat"
  • 2 0
 Takes a bong toke, Yeah totally understand the drawings/numbers here...
  • 1 0
 So does 6 linkages mean, 6k frames? Built out of high grade ballistic style carbon and Kashima!
  • 1 0
 Is this a better system than a single pivot swing arm that shares a fulcrum with the BB?
  • 2 0
 Ummmmmm....huh, huh, huh......what did they just say Beavis......
  • 2 0
 If you can afford a Yeti, you can afford to replace all the damn bearings.
  • 2 0
 This looks like a covid-19 stay at home syndrome?
  • 2 0
 Yeti E bike on the making
  • 1 0
 Do you have any idea how many bi-annual cleanings and fillings it will take to pay for a for a six bar suspension design!
  • 2 0
 High pivot FSR interests me a lot more then this.
  • 1 0
 Even the dentists (who buy these bikes) can no longer understand this linkage anatomy and suspension physiology.
  • 1 0
 But where's the Kashima coating...........my tribe will pay all the extra $ for kashima on our kashima
  • 2 0
 There's an Ebike design in that patent...
  • 2 0
 Even the bottle cage has at least a 2 bar linkage
  • 1 0
 Science isn’t fiction.
Depends on where you put your thumb after pulling it out yo assr
  • 1 0
 Thought Id try give a shit but brain was out of there like a shot. Will stick with the normal frame flick and bounce test.
  • 1 0
 Now we know why Yeti bikes are so expensive; 16 NASA astrophysicists were employed to pull that patent together.
  • 2 0
 Where's Instant Centre Cat?

None of this makes any sense without a cat.
  • 1 0
 They'll have to call it the Switch Lightyear system because it'll be to infinity and beyond.
  • 1 0
 Having the Colorado School of Mines in their backyard certainly helps Yeti attract top engineering talent. Pretty cool!
  • 1 0
 Bike designer - How many linkages would you like in your new frame design?

Yeti - All of them.
  • 1 0
 Does Yeti even need a patent for this over-design? It's so complicated, who'd want to copy it?
  • 1 0
 Is it any less maintenance?
  • 2 0
 Cliff notes please
  • 1 0
 Chicken chicken, chicken, chicken-chicken.
  • 1 0
 It looks compilycated to me...
  • 2 1
 Have at it Nerds!!! I got lost 2 sentences in.
  • 1 0
 Reversed delta design or dw design
  • 3 1
 Neutral dw delta trust horst VPP design.
  • 1 0
 and I thought this was the Steel HT forum.
  • 1 0
 You lost me at:

“ non-constant radius of curvature”....
  • 2 0
 Like a shitty corner...
  • 1 0
 Yeti raises the bar...twice
  • 2 0
 Less is more.
  • 2 0
 They charge per link
  • 1 0
 I should get that sore tooth looked at quick before pricing is announced
  • 1 0
 Does anyone have a spare link?
  • 1 0
 No no no no no no, just no.
  • 1 0
 Does it come in an ebike?
  • 2 0
 Still going to crack
  • 1 0
 So many numbers.... Ahhhh!!!
  • 1 0
 not the best article for a Monday
  • 1 0
 Looks like enough room for both, a water bottle and a Shimano motor.
  • 1 4
 Not a big fan of Yeti Bikes.
From 303's "Linear Rail Technology", to 575/ASR's flex rear triangle, and sb66/75/95's eccentric pivot ("Switch", sued by Santa Cruz), and new sb's Kashima tube rail ("Switch Infinity").
Now we have six bar suspension, what are these and what are these guys doing???? THAT IS TOO MUCH!! They could have solve a problem in an easier way and with mainstream technology. I'm not a dentist. We users buy decent bikes, not fancy technologies.
  • 4 0
 Ever ride one?

They are awesome.
  • 2 1
 aaaaaand this is why I ride a hardtail
  • 1 0
 Another suspension design, sorry I mean gimmick from yeti.
  • 2 0
 Full review tomorrow ...
  • 1 0
 holy f**k that's complicated
  • 1 0
 Yeti takes stonecrushing to another level.
  • 1 0
 2023 means it will be released this spring right?
  • 1 0
 I'll just leave this here:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/17368798
  • 1 0
 Came here for dentistry commentary...was not disappointed!
  • 1 0
 high pivot will beat the shit out of it.
  • 1 0
 Apparently gold in their bikes before wasn't enough for them
  • 1 0
 I just love cleaning all that linkage shit!
  • 1 0
 Literally just came here to read the comments.
  • 1 0
 How many root canals will buy this new tech?
  • 1 0
 Atherton Bikes would like a word
  • 1 0
 Yeti e-bike coming in 3....2.....1...
  • 1 0
 So easy a caveman can do it
  • 1 0
 They can still improve this system with a couple more pivots.
  • 1 0
 I owned a Mongoose Valiant with seven bar linkage design
  • 1 0
 I’m waiting for the flex chain stay version next.
  • 1 0
 I’m not an Engineer so I scrolled directly to the comments.
  • 1 0
 Seat tube kink means cervix bump early with that long dropper?
  • 1 0
 mono pivot ftw
  • 1 0
 Soooooo much lol!
  • 1 0
 agree
  • 1 0
 ITS SCIENCE BROS
  • 1 0
 HELLO KYLE
  • 1 0
 Where's the cat?

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