YT Announces Tax Break Donation to Regional Nonprofits

Jan 8, 2021
by Alicia Leggett  
Capra

YT Industries has chosen to donate 3% of proceeds from bikes purchased within Germany in the latter six months of 2020 to a collection of nonprofits within the bike world – an unexpected ripple effect of the pandemic.

Starting July 1, 2020, the German federal government reduced the standard VAT on purchases from 19% to 16% as part of a 6-month pandemic relief plan. YT, which includes VAT in its online prices, decided to take that extra 3% and donate it to organizations and projects that increase access to the sport and improve trails in Germany.

“We hope that it is in your interest to donate this difference to a non-profit association or institution rather than to invest in the disproportionate effects of the change,” the company wrote in German on its blog in July.

YT followed up Dec. 18 by announcing that the company had selected 17 nonprofits that it believed would have the most impact for youth access and trail advocacy.

From the YT blog, translated from German:

When the federal government decided to reduce VAT from 19% to 16% in the second half of 2020 in order to stimulate consumption, we decided to keep our gross prices and use the difference to promote our sport in Germany.

At the beginning of July, we called on non-profit MTB projects in Germany to apply. And our appeal was heard! We got a lot more applications than we had expected and most of them showed immediately how much passion and love for MTB the people in charge put into their project. Including, for example, the team from MTB-Augsburg, which is not only committed to building a legal trail network, but also to ensuring that all forest visitors can enjoy nature together and considerate. The Albert-Schweitzer School from Gundelfingen, which supports socially disadvantaged kids with bikes and trails, is completely different.

So it wasn't just the large number, but also the quality and diversity of the clubs and initiatives that made it difficult for us to choose. In the end, we decided to fund 17 projects from four categories that we believe would best cover all aspects of our sport and where our donation would have the maximum impact.

The organizations selected are:

TSV Eibelstadt, which aims to build an all-abilities flow trail
Schleuseninsel Forchheim, which aims to revive a local pump track
Zweiradsportler Bamberg eV, a trail-building organization in the town of Bamberg
JAM - Bamberg, a resource to provide youth with opportunities
Realschule Höchstadt, a high school that plans to build a bike park
Rollkultur Weserbergland eV, which provides youth trail-building workshops
Anorak 21, which provides rental bikes and trips
Albert Schweitzer Community School Gundelfingen, a school that aims to establish a bike club
MTB-Augsburg eV, a trail advocacy organization in Augsburg
The Esslinger Nordschleife - ESNOS, a club representing a local trail system
Gravity Pilots eV, an organization that advocates for gravity riding in Germany
Fahrvergnügen eV, a trail stewardship crew that hopes to increase youth access to biking
Grüne-Hölle-Freisen, a group that organizes events and aims to spread the stoke
Bikepark Engelsbrand, a young bike park that hopes to expand
Naturfreunde Gersthofen, a group that wants to improve their local bike park and programs
Bikepark Osternohe, a bike park that looks pretty fun if I may say so myself


131 Comments

  • 154 11
 Not sure how there could be a negative comment on this article... Even regarding bike stock. The supply chain issue is industry wide and not specific to YT. Bravo YT for stepping up and recognizing trail orgs!
  • 17 6
 Haters wish they had 3% to donate, so they will be here shortly.
  • 125 30
 Actually, YT didn't donate anything. YT's customers donated 3% of their purchase in lieu of the government provided incentive. YT made the same gross margin. Had YT donated 6%, then, yes, YT would have made a 3% contribution.
  • 51 10
 @rnayel: basically:
The government wants to give you a 3% tax break but we're not going to pass it on. We will donate the 3% on your behalf. You're welcome.
  • 52 13
 @rnayel: They could have kept the additional 3% as profit. What are you talking about?
  • 17 4
 @wtmorgan1: They have no idea.
  • 6 5
 @wtmorgan1:
I'm not sure that is the case, at lease here in the US it is illegal to collect and keep tax monies collected, as it is to collect taxes above the legal tax rate.
  • 12 3
 @jaame: OK - 'somebodies' money is going to bike organizations that would not have received these monies were it not for YT. How's that?
  • 16 21
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 8, 2021 at 22:44) (Below Threshold)
 This is not meant to be a negative comment, just a theory based on obvious observations that many pinkbikers would agree with:

The old Amazon employees YT hired analyzed YT's image and realized they come across as a purely profit based marketing enterprise with little local connections, lots of bad publicity from broken chainstays and customer service issues, and a 'use young talent then get rid of them when they want to get paid" image. Plus the owners semi-racist Nordic tattoos aren't a good look when you are trying to sell bikes worldwide.

So this helps them improve their image in some respects and distracts from all the other problems that have hurt their image. It's a good marketing move, even though it's only the German sales that contribute to it. And people in other countries who just read headlines think it's all bike sales worldwide that help the trails, and if they order a YT they are helping out. So it helps sell bikes to headline-only readers.
  • 20 2
 @DoubleCrownAddict: you lost me at semi-racist Nordic Tattoos.
  • 7 20
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 9, 2021 at 2:13) (Below Threshold)
 @filsdanvers: Consider it an opportunity for a little education. The owner has posted pics on Instagram of these types of tatts:
www.norwegianamerican.com/viking-symbols-stolen-racists

I am not implying he is racist, but he clearly has made a choice to get tattoos that many people would consider racist. Perhaps he could clarify this in a statement if I'm incorrect. Usually when people get these tattoos and get called out they just claim they like that type of art on their body. Yeah right.
  • 19 8
 @alpinebikeworks: They didn't collect the tax money, they just raised the price of their bikes, to match the previous wholesale price with 19%. Basically the customer is giving that money to charity while YT is still earning the same. Shameful behavior and cheap marketing.
  • 22 3
 @DoubleCrownAddict: You're right. I bet he also speaks german like the nazi's.
  • 19 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Define 'semi-racist', I always thought it was fairly black and white.
  • 15 4
 @DoubleCrownAddict: You have an eagle as part of your national symbolism, is that semi-racist?
  • 2 2
 @dick-pound: ahh, that makes sense.
  • 8 3
 I'm already letting people I have never met keep my money and choose how to spend it. I would prefer if that was limited to governments, not private businesses also.
  • 3 22
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 9, 2021 at 3:31) (Below Threshold)
 @Steventux: Feeling desperate eh? Maga bro type or TY marketing fanboy? Or both?
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: In UE buying as a consumer not company the vat is paid in country where you bought. So as polish guy when i buy YT i leave my vat money in Germany.

BUUUUT....as always...

There is said if they cross the line of goods sold to another country in UE [35k-100k euros(each country sets it by himself)] they have to use that's country vat fee.

Lets say the sold bikes for Poland under in total price under 100k euros they pay 16% in Germany.
They sold bikes for more than 100k euros they have to pay 23% polish vat.
  • 18 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Are those the only two options you offer people who don't agree with you?

Do you think that anyone commenting on the holes in your comment about 'semi-racist Nordic tattoos' MUST also be a fractional racist or worse a YT fanboi? It's not that simple.

I've discussed YT on other articles on PB with you before, you evidently don't like the company, and I respect your opinion.
But what you are doing here is weak and mean, instead of calling out your prejudice about YT, you are smearing them, and on a personal level Marcus Flossman, with deeply insulting bullshit like 'semi-racist'.

It not only shows how poor your understanding of racism is, it also shows how poor your understanding of history is.
Have a read about how occult and religious symbols from other cultures were appropriated by the far right in the early 20th century before conflating your prejudice against a company with crude blame-arithmetic for the use of ancient symbols in body art.
Do you rail against Independent Skateboards for their use of a Saxon cross in their logo? I doubt it.

While you're at it have a good f*cking read of my other comments on PB and decide whether you think it right to challenge me as a racist, you might even realise you are picking a fight with the wrong guy.
  • 5 0
 @Steventux: if I were standing behind you I would say "You heard him."
  • 2 17
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 9, 2021 at 15:31) (Below Threshold)
 @Steventux: OK, so your just a YT fan, that's reassuring.
Your reply was so absurd that I gave you back a taste of it. Stupidity doesn't taste good does it?

I'm not smearing the owner, he's smeared his own image by getting Nordic tattoos and being proud of them. They are despicable and if he doesn't want to be associated with the Nazi types he should have them removed. Here's a little more education for you:

"Viking symbols are everywhere among the ultra-right. When the Unite the Right rally took place in Charlottesville in 2017, some protesters carried banners featuring the Norse god Thor's hammer, popular among the Nazis and neo-Nazi groups.

The perpetrator of New Zealand's Christchurch massacre last year wrote, "See you in Valhalla"-referring to the great hall where heroes of Norse mythology go after they die-at the end of his manifesto.

Closer to home, the Soldiers of Odin-a Finnish white supremacist movement named after another Norse god in 2015-have recently emerged in Alberta and throughout Canada.

"The precedent was set with the Nazis," said Van Deusen. "National Socialism and Hitler idealized the Norse people-those who lived in the Nordic areas. Even the swastika is based in part on a symbol based on Viking artifacts."

A popular text among the Nazis was Germania by the Roman historian Tacitus, who describes Germanic people as a pure, uncorrupted race.

"It laid the groundwork for the Nazis to hearken back to," said Van Deusen.

Many current white supremacist movements are similarly "motivated by their belief in a white medieval past and a pure ancestral race they perceive as under threat in the face of immigration and religious and racial diversity," wrote Van Deusen in an article for the Canadian Historical Association.

"The Viking age and Norse mythology are of particular interest in these groups, who have committed acts of violence against perceived outsiders, such as Jews, Muslims and people of colour."

www.ualberta.ca/folio/2020/07/white-supremacists-are-misappropriating-norse-mythology-says-expert.html
  • 10 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: people get all kinds of stupid shit tattooed on their bodies. Personally I hate tattoos. I think they're totally shite and would never get one. A lot of people like them though. I think we should celebrate diversity. If someone wants a tattoo they're free to do so as far as I'm concerned. The tattoo does not define the man. The behaviour of the man defines the man. Can having a Norse tattoo be classed as being racist? In my opinion, probably not. Racist thoughts and behaviour define a racist. Although I am a child of the 70s, and it's easy for me to forget that everything is racist and homophobic these days. Everything is offensive, everyone knows everyone else's mind. If you say you're something it doesn't prove you are that thing. I know your true thoughts better than you know your own thoughts. Just saying you're not racist doesn't mean you're not racist. I know what you are and it's dispicable. Publicly announce that you're not racist. Get your tattoos removed that you got done 20 years ago before they were racist. And after you've done all that, you'll still be racist in my eyes. Because you are.

That's a pretty obnoxious way to treat others don't you think?
  • 1 0
 @friendlyfoe: not a clue! because they don't pay taxes every time they sell a bike..they pay taxes as every business do, at the end of your "tax year"...whenever that is in Germany, and at this point the government due to the pandemic they charged a 3% less, so YT did a 3% more than they were expecting, and they donated that to the community...is not money from any costumer! is profit money after taxes what they gave back to community you like it or not...
  • 1 15
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 9, 2021 at 17:04) (Below Threshold)
 @jaame: I agree with you about tatts, and I think most guys just get them because they suffer from some type of masculine insecurity. History clearly shows Germans borrowing Nordic history isn't diversity, it's dangerous divisiveness that robs other cultures history and turns them into symbols of hate. This destroys the authentic nordic history which is then used to bolster and celebrate the ideals of the racists. It's truly awful what the Nazis did to Nordic culture, and which white supremacy groups continue to this day.

"In the 19th century, Romantic German nationalism metastasized into the Völkish movement, which was interested in historical narratives that bolstered a white German nation state. The movement rewrote history, drawing on folklore such as that of Brothers Grimm, medieval epics and a dedication to racial white supremacy. Late 19th and early 20th-century scholars simultaneously drew from and reinforced this racialized imagination of the medieval past. Crucially, Vilhelm Grønbach’s multi-volume work Vor Folkeæt i Oldtiden (The Cultures of the Teutons) imagined an ancient Germanic genealogy that ran from Tacitus through the Middle Ages.

German scholarly work during the eve of the Third Reich then added to this idea, with authors like Gustav Neckel and Bernhard Kummer blaming socialism, Jews and class revolutions for the “decline” of a Germanic race they saw descending from this Viking past. Another German scholar, Otto Höfler, who based his work on Grønbach, wrote of the Männerbunde, which the scholar Stefanie von Schnurbein has described as “all-male warrior associations in so-called primitive societies.” His take on Männerbund would become used as an explanation of the past and current Germanic race, and fueled the idea behind Nazi groups such as the SS and SA.

After World War II, despite the defeat of the Axis powers, these ideas didn’t go away. Rather, they saw a resurgence in specific circles, including various far-right neo-pagan groups, like the Scandinavian Nordic Resistance Movement, known for their neo-Nazi violence. Grønbach’s multivolume work, translated and available online, and the works of his contemporaries have also influenced current far-right extremists in Europe and North America.

This neo-pagan resurgence intersects with many facets of extremism today, from eco-fascism — another term the Christchurch terrorist invoked — to groups like the Odinists, who practice a form of white toxic masculinity based on the belief that the “barbaric” warriors of medieval Northern Europe functioned as a violent warrior comitatus. Odinists follow a neo-pagan medieval Scandinavian religion that is unacknowledged by the official Icelandic pagan religion, Ásatrú. The man who is accused of attacking two teenage girls (one in a hijab) and murdering Rick Best and Taliesin Myrddin Namkai-Meche in Portland, Ore., in 2017 has linked himself to the idea of “Vinland,” the concept of a Viking North America onto which an imaginary Odinist past has been superimposed.
  • 3 10
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 9, 2021 at 17:11) (Below Threshold)
 Nor is this use of Old Norse and Viking “history” limited to specific alt-right subgroups. In fact, it is a generalized social fixture in these circles. For example, when researcher Patrik Hermansson went undercover among the denizens of this world, he attended “gatherings where extremists drank mead from a traditional Viking horn and prayed to the Norse god Odin.” The Viking past contributes to a medieval toolkit of language, allusion and symbolism used to transmit white supremacist messages.

Communities of color have in the past fought white supremacist medieval narratives at the grassroots by spreading their own counternarratives, from W.E.B. Du Bois creating an African-American vision of the medieval past in Dark Princess to the Asian Americans who pushed back against racist medievalism during the period of Chinese Exclusion. Scholars and historians — not just medievalists — must also interrogate their disciplines from the inside, setting the record straight about medieval race and the Global Middle Ages."

It's not diversity, it's culture theft that is used to fuel white supremacy. Sometimes tattoos do define a man when they are used like this even after we were already supposed to learn the lessons of Hitler and WWII. Based on your logic if you see a guy with a swastika tattoo you don't assume he's racist, right?
  • 2 11
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 9, 2021 at 17:22) (Below Threshold)
 Here's the link to that one:
www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5569399/viking-history-white-nationalists/%3famp=true

Here's another article that explains how the Nazi's theft of the Nordic symbols actually helped unify and fuel the Nazi movement:

"This was the way out of political disappointments, an escape beyond human reality, to achieve in the spiritual field a higher yearning for self-realization: the Volk. It became the link between man and superior reality, the tangible and evident vehicle of the life force , a conception close to the future Bergsonian positions and those of G. B. Shaw. Man had to himself be permeated and guided by the natural instinct of his own Volk.

In 19th century Germany, and especially after the defeat of WWI up to the years immediately preceding Hitler, with Fichte, Hegel, Wagner, Nietzsche, and the völkisch philosophers we observe a crisis of rationalism and of the security of the goddess Reason. Along with the frustration of a felt but never achieved unity and the disastrous economic depression, this had a far-reaching effect on the collective unconscious of the Germans.

From this there emerged the instinctive search for a catalyst, a special person, generically called Starke von Oben , (the Strong One from Above); a real messiah of Germany, able to unite the nation, politically and spiritually, and bring the fate of the Volk to fruition.

The absolute power and the consensus that National Socialism acquired essentially derived from having been able to collect this psychological and spiritual impatience and to have given certain answers to the emotional distress of the population. It is no coincidence that the Nazis gathered the largest common consent in the most cultured sections of the people, those who possessed the tools to understand the present status of things and its cultural implications.

This highlights the most extraordinary case of regressus ad uterum in modern times; that is, the spontaneous turning back towards a time and a situation in which a person or an entire people felt like a child in the womb of their mother, safe and realized in following their inner nature. So the legendary myths, the heroes, the Valhalla, and the Norse gods and legends become a model to look at with admiration. Richard Wagner, the true German bard, was able to bring this visionary universe, the Mythos, to the forefront as a part of the collective unconscious of a people-race, the Volk.
  • 2 13
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 9, 2021 at 17:25) (Below Threshold)
 ...Anyone who wants to understand National Socialist Germany must first understand Wagner." This statement by Hitler clarifies the link between National Socialism and the power of the dramas of Richard Wagner. To Hitler only a direct connection with the Mythos and Norse mythology could awaken Germany to itself and fate.

Return to Mythos: Wagner, Runes, and Norse Gods
Wagner's dramas, the tetralogy ‘ The Nibelungen Ring,’ were based upon old Norse Mythology and linked the mythical past to the present as the two ends became one in a ring. The past returned to the present in “a ring of eternal return” that took on the appearance of the Nibelungen Ring .

This process was the re-actualization of the mythical act of the hero in illo tempore (the mythical age) every time a public rite was performed, as in the case of the mass ceremonies of the Third Reich. Wagner himself was convinced that some basic (archetypal) characteristics resided in the depths of the German people, and these had not degraded over time. Therefore the old Norse sagas were seen as a way to model the present.

In Wagner’s interpretation of Norse mythology with the magic gold stolen from the dwarf Alberich, a ring is forged, leading to the conquest of the world. Wotan, the god of the gods, finally recovers the gold by throwing a curse on the ring. But the mythical figures of the Valkyries, the dramatic tragedy of the hero Siegfried (Sigurd in Norse mythology), the destructive final burning of the Walhalla (the Norse Ragnarök, the destruction of the cosmos and its consequent regeneration), and from its ashes a new order of Gods.

www.ancient-origins.net/history-important-events/national-socialism-0012706
  • 8 3
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Black Metal is full of this stuff, but I still listen to the form of music. I won't cancel my record collection, either, because I know I'm not a racist (in fact I'm anti-racist). Part of the fun of symbolism is 'freaking out the squares' (early Hells Angels 'reason' for male members kissing one another on the lips in public - before they became lame jocks on HDs). I find it presumptuous to suggest that someone cover up tattoos of ancient symbols that were later co-opted by hate groups without knowing the person's motivations. If the person can defend them intellectually, who cares? Maybe you shouldn't care so much - and do not travel to India with these ideas or your head may explode.....

P..S Where are you copy & pasting all this from, a term paper?
  • 4 15
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 9, 2021 at 18:25) (Below Threshold)
 @suspended-flesh:
In addition to "freaking out the squares", it can also inspire racist movements as we saw in WWII, which caused 6 million deaths.
Humor Question;
How do you "cancel your record collection?" lmfao

Why would you think it's from a term paper when I posted the links? Do you not understand how internet links work? Or was that just really lame sarcastic humor? (Yes)

Serious questions:

Are you amused in the same way by nazi swastika tattoos? Have you ever heard somebody intellectually justify having a swastika tattoo given what it inspired in WWII?

Do you feel the German owner of YT has intellectually defended his Nazi inspired Nordic tattoos?
  • 2 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I may answer your questions later - or I may not.
  • 1 8
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 9, 2021 at 18:41) (Below Threshold)
 @suspended-flesh: OK, thanks for considering it friend.
  • 3 0
 Perfect article to get emotional children fired up about what they think 3% of anything means.
  • 2 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: what has it got to do with you what tattoos someone else has?!
  • 7 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: "Do you feel the German owner of YT has intellectually defended his Nazi inspired Nordic tattoos?"

Where is the evidence that these tattoos were 'Nazi inspired'? It's not sound reasoning, it's just really low and illogical attribution to harm someone's reputation.

Do you have any evidence other that 'nazi tattoo theory' which links Marcus Flossman to the far right? If not, please consider what you are writing here.
You are associating him with some of the worst moments in recent history without evidence, on a supposition on the intentions of a tattoo.
I hope you can see this, it's one (admirable IMO) thing to stand up against racism, nazism.
It's a whole other crappy and low thing to wipe that shit on someone else cos you don't like their bikes.
  • 1 8
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 10, 2021 at 9:08) (Below Threshold)
 @Steventux: He associated himself with that history by getting the tattoos which I saw on Instagram. I still have the photos somewhere in my photo history if needed for proof. Notice that NOBODY from the company has come on here to deny that the German owner of YT has Nordic tattoos that resemble the imagery used by German Nazi's in WW2?
  • 1 9
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 10, 2021 at 9:14) (Below Threshold)
 I saw actually hoping my posts would motivate somebody from YT to make a statement regarding my allegations about his tattoos, and maybe publicly disavow racism and Nazi symbolism which has caused so much damage as history shows. I'll repeat that I'm not implying the owner is racist but a little reassurance would be nice. Instead... crickets.
  • 3 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: that is exactly what you are implying!
  • 6 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: You were hoping that a tenuous theory about ancient nordic symbols, adopted by nazis, and allegedly used in body art by a CEO (though you cant seem to supply any actual evidence of this) are reason for a company to write to you or all of us explaining why they aren't nazis?

I'm at a loss as to why they haven't been in touch or posted something here on PB, probably that terrible customer service again, you know, like the nazis.
  • 9 0
 Absolute clown @DoubleCrownAddict.
Your expectation that some man from a company you have a vendetta against must justify his tatts ( publicly no less) in order to satisfy you, the decider of all that is "racist", is some proper America-centric nonsense. All your arguments on pb seem to be fueled by emotion (hate) with little to no logical consistency. I expect no less from a user that has used screenshots of pb comments to remove those that you don't like.

Maybe get off the Internet for a bit and enjoy a ride? You'll notice once you unplug, sometimes a spade is a just spade and that the world is not burning down, despite what your insta and news feed is telling you.
  • 1 6
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 10, 2021 at 16:19) (Below Threshold)
 @Steventux: Tenuous theory? I posted clear evidence on how the theft of the symbols helped the Nazis accomplish their racist mission. There is much more evidence than what I've posted above, if you actually research it.

I think it's despicable for any German to embrace any part of Nazi history in light of how easily the country was manipulated by Hitlers actions.

Sad that YT Marketing fanboys are able to brush history under the rug to justify saving a little money on a mail order bike purchase. It's as if you don't think racism is a problem in the world anymore, and getting the cheapest bike possible on the internet is a more important priority.

Their broken chainstay bikes aren't even that great of a deal anymore. anymore, Vitus is blowing them out of the water.
  • 2 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: You missed the obvious/secret far-right message here: The 3 Percenters:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Percenters

Feast on that....
  • 1 6
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 10, 2021 at 21:41) (Below Threshold)
 @suspended-flesh: YT owner has something in common with the Qanon nutcase who was part of the Trump's terrorist insurrection at the Capital the other day, imagine that.
observers.france24.com/en/americas/20210108-white-supremacist-symbols-us-capitol
  • 2 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I have a tattoo of a teardrop. That doesn't mean I killed anyone, although that is a common reason for getting that particular design. I'm gonna give Markus the benefit of the doubt until I hear from a very, very, credible source (not an internet theorist) to the contrary. I have actually had a beer with Markus at the YT tent at a Sea Otter a few years back and thought he was kind of a kook (but the beer was free), but your increasingly unhinged crusade against suspected secret nazipagans makes me want to take his 'side'.

I have a new ridiculous conspiracy to indulge in - why did you choose an American location flag, link a French article, and write English with the small but perceptible peculiarities of, say, a junior spytroll practicing interacting with native US English speakers? Eh?
  • 1 0
 Interesting how media coverage of the American and Hong Kongese variations of what seem to be very similar events is very different.
What are your thoughts on that?
  • 1 8
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 11, 2021 at 0:38) (Below Threshold)
 @dirtyburger: I'm not a hater, confronting racism and educating people about it is a positive event. Raising issues like this is uncomfortable, but progress is not always easy.

They also seem like cheapskates to me, wonder if they use inferior carbon fiber or lax manufacturing techniques to save money? No other brand in recent history that had been not plagued by cracked and broken chainstays than YT. They have bad ratings on various review sites where customer after customer complains about the broken chainstays, complaints about the slow customer service, and various other problems with the e13 components.

The last post I made about the nutty Qanon supporter involved in Trumps insurrection with Nordic tattoos made me think about a Qanon themed YT bike. Bullhorns coming out of the head tube(dangerous, yes but conspiracies are dangerous also), surrounded by animal fur, with a red white and blue lunatic face in the center. Then Trumps wall brick graphics along the top tube, with razor wire on top for the taint(more danger). The downtube is saved for an assortment of the prized Nordic symbol graphics, highlighted in gold. One seat stay says "TRUST Q's PLAN", while the other days "THE STORM IS COMING". The back of the seat tube has a discrete picture of Trump smiling with a match under an American flag. YT designs a custom seat with the letter Q beautifully stitched into it to help keep the butt planted. First 100 orders are hand autographed by American traitor Michael Flynn.

Chainstays are left blank with no Q presence to save on manufacturing costs, since they will likely have to be warrantied later.
  • 4 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: You have graduated to full "SJWaki", please seek psychological help.
  • 4 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Tenuous yes, you've provided no evidence of any sort other than stuff you copied and pasted off the internet back onto the internet, like some sort of analogue Twitter.
Evidence of the tattoos would be a starting point to making your rant seem less like a petulant little tantrum about a bike brand you don't like. Remember going on and on about how unfair YT were with AG? You omitted any mention of their plan to establish a master race in that little spat.
Next up in cogent and coherent reasoning would be to demonstrate that the intention of this as yet unseen tattoo was to convey nazi ideologies through cultural symbolism predating the rise of the nazis. You've made a big deal about how the far right leverage this symbolism but it does not automatically follow that ANYONE with a nordic symbol is a nazi sympathiser, that's just poor didactic reasoning, you're failing 'Debating 101' on that point alone.
  • 2 4
 @Steventux: How else would I provide evidence than by posting valid links that are not disputed anywhere on the internet except by YT Marketing fanboys and violent skinhead racists???

Petulant little tantrum? Hypocrisy much, YT Marketing snowflake? I'm being mostly positive here, and have even added some humor to spice it up with the idea of a YT Qanon edition bike. My next idea might be the YT Fuerer edition, since Hitler also had an affinity for Nordic symbols.

The point about Gwin was that YT promised him something and then completely pulled it away a week later. That is undeniable. Wonder how many customers they've done that to?

It's despicable for any German to be celebrating Nazi culture by applying it permanently to their skin and posting it online, especially somebody who is well known. Sounds like you disagree. The Nazi movement in Germany is trying to emerge again in some circles. Do you even care?
  • 4 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I evidently care enough to point out when someone who has little grasp of logical argument starts calling racist with no evidence. This is the PB equivalent of 'pedo guy', no evidence, no reason just a shitty smear.
Good luck mate, I was actually fairly behind you when you amongst others called out Waki for some of his ill judged rants. I can see now that you are the other side of the same coin.
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: once again the only person creating diversity in a thread for f*cking charity is YOU! You went after waki for his dry humor and now publicly call out a ceo / founder of a company that is donating cash (however it come to them it's still cash) to charity. Give your head a wobble
  • 3 0
 @Steventux: good point...this guy needs some special attention. seems he didn´t got enough when he grew up. It´s a lot of bullshit and lies written above.
  • 1 7
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 11, 2021 at 6:43) (Below Threshold)
 @Steventux: Quote anything I wrote and explain how it's illogical. You can't. I've lied about nothing, which is obviously frustrating you and leading to your weak insults. You. Have. NOTHING.

Except a bike with weak chainstays and your loyalty to the brand that makes you turn the other cheek to issues concerning truth and the tragic history of 6 million Jews.

I've called nobody racist here, I started sharing a theory that nobody here has actually disputed, it got sidetracked into this tatt discussion, and then I explained the history behind why it's offensive for Germans to embrace Nazi history. And you have a big problem with all that, simply and solely because you own a YT.
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Take a good look at how many people here disagree with you, how many downvotes you have received, and then keep convincing yourself you have a valid point.
  • 1 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict:

Lat thoughts on this fabricated 'matter'

1. I had a quick look at Markus' IG expecting to see sleeves of Runes and Viking tombstones - he has neither and not that many tattoos, actually. Neither would make him responsible for a Nazi chainstay conspiracy, however.

2. You're gonna get suspended or banned by PB if you don't start to behave rationally.

3. DL Trailforks and prove you even ride a bike and where in the 'Redmond, Washington' area you ride........Issaquah, maybe? Your online 'presence' here looks like that of a recent troll farm escapee.
  • 2 7
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 11, 2021 at 11:22) (Below Threshold)
 @Steventux: Awesome rebuttal to the points in my last post, way to step up to the challenge intellectually.

Super bummed about being down -voted by YT fanboys. Take light solace in the fact that I'm seeing Nordic artifacts on my Facebook feed after researching it.
  • 1 6
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 11, 2021 at 11:24) (Below Threshold)
 @suspended-flesh: "Neither would make him responsible for a Nazi chainstay conspiracy, however."

Thanks for the laugh.
  • 4 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I love the irony of you calling people “YT marketing snowflakes” while you have a butthurt-induced public meltdown regarding a bicycle brand. And what’s better is that you do it on every YT post.

Hilarious.
  • 1 6
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 11, 2021 at 15:06) (Below Threshold)
 @TypicalCanadian: Where do I appear to be butthurt? When I'm making jokes about your guys desperate & pathetic attempts to defend your favorite bike brand?

Reciting historical facts about the causes of 6 million Jews being killed in WW2, one of which was Germans stealing and embracing Nordic symbols?

When I designed the YT Qanon themed bike?

Or was it the YT broken chainstay jokes?

Disingenuous much?
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: yeah pretty much all of that. It all reeks of butthurt.

Quit the nonstop rage posting and go for a ride man. Yikes.
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict:

Like I said - "DL Trailforks and prove you even ride a bike and where in the 'Redmond, Washington' area you ride........Issaquah, maybe? Your online 'presence' here looks like that of a recent troll farm escapee."

You behave like a counter-trollbot.
  • 1 6
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jan 12, 2021 at 4:20) (Below Threshold)
 @suspended-flesh: Get on Strava and get some kom's and post them here to prove that you ride. Lmfao.

A counter troll bot could never design this bike:
Qanon themed YT bike. Bullhorns coming out of the head tube(dangerous, yes but conspiracies are dangerous also), surrounded by animal fur, with a red white and blue lunatic face in the center. Then Trumps wall brick graphics along the top tube, with razor wire on top for the taint(more danger). The downtube is saved for an assortment of the prized Nordic symbol graphics, highlighted in gold. One seat stay says "TRUST Q's PLAN", while the other days "THE STORM IS COMING". The back of the seat tube has a discrete picture of Trump smiling with a match under an American flag. Comes with a custom seat with the letter Q beautifully stitched into it to help keep the butt planted. First 100 orders are hand autographed by American traitor Michael Flynn.

Chainstays are left blank with no Q presence to save on manufacturing costs, since they will likely have to be warrantied later.

Hey, you're a republican aren't you? I'm curious how you feel about Trumps insurrection at the Capitol last week?
  • 1 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: You're on a sick one, foo. Don't smoke Skante.
  • 3 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: you should definitely keep posting these butthurt novels. You’re not embarrassing yourself at all.
  • 39 5
 Amazon.de returns this 3% back to our accounts.But YT chooses to donate that money.Not a bad idea BUT telling that it was donation from the company........that's cheap.
  • 8 3
 Its from company because they rise base price. Than the difference is donated so they pays less income tax. So this is donated by them but who cares that they fu**** customer because they could lower the price to enliven the industry...
What matters it is that it looks good when someone donated something (but no one knows that is was not his money or is too stupid.)

Most of people don't know about taxes they pay every day. They don't know from who they government has money. It is thought that they just print it and that's whole story.

And in worst scenario the non profit that was donated can be owned by YT owner so ha can pay himself salary as owner of non profit.
  • 4 3
 @Kptzbik: Can't upvote you enough! Some people just don't know how to read between the lines. In the end YT is just taking a profit out of it, no real donation is happening on their behalf.
  • 3 2
 @Kptzbik: i totally disagree.The rise on the prices were due to the global pandemic effects(Supply chain Problems).This has nothing to do with the VAT in Germany. The VAT has gone down because the goverment wanted to help all of us during the pandemic.It has gone from 19% to 16%.
The customers paid their bikes with 19% VAT though. The company should pay the government according to the 16% VAT. This extra 3% is already in their pockets. I dont know if it is compulsory or not by THE LAW to return this money to the customer. THOSE money have YT donated and made it look like it was theirs.
  • 6 0
 @amonas: You can't make people pay more value added tax (VAT), but you can raise the gross price and add 16% on top of that so the net price is the same.
That is, if the gross price of the item is €100 and net price is €119 (19% vat), YT strategy is to raise the gross price to €102.85 so net price will still be €119 instead of €116.
It's a freaking scam, on top of that they might even make profit due to income tax deduction, banners at bikeparks, etc. Bikepark Osternohe could also be a conflict of interest since it's where YT holds most of their corporate events.
It's freaking digraceful behaviour and luckily it happened right before I placed and order with them.
  • 3 1
 @dick-pound: exacty. i have already posted that above.Unfotunately that is the game with trading globally.Infating the base price is what merchants do on sale period as well.My point is that it is a very cheap move to call it "donation".
  • 1 0
 @amonas: You disagree but we are talking about the same Razz
  • 17 0
 According to my bank account, I am definitely considered a non-profit. Willing to accept any Jeffsy 27.5 as donation. Thanks YT!
  • 24 9
 So everyone who bought during that period paid 3% over and YT unilaterally decided where that money, which legally should not have been charged, would then go to?
I'm all for the giving. Just don't dress it up like it was a huge gesture on YTs behalf.
  • 10 1
 there was no legal obligation to pass it on to consumers. Most did, but especially many smaller businesses (like bakeries etc.) didn't.
  • 1 0
 I dont think thats correct. I think the tax reduction was put in place July 1 meaning anyone who bought a YT at the lower rax rate paid less in tax.
  • 2 0
 @provin1327: If YT did not change their prices, and it seems they did not, the customers did not get a 3 % discount, that money is now going to stated organisations. Remember, prices include all taxes here.
  • 12 0
 ''Realschule Höchstadt, a high school that plans to build a bike park''

Bravo Hochstadt
  • 13 0
 I wish my school had a bike park. I guess I'll guess stick to hucking off things on campus for now.
  • 13 5
 I would expect from a moderator to reach out YT for a comment.That is cheap marketing.Not all read the comments and it is definitely a marketing trick the way it is presented to the readers.
  • 9 2
 that's sorely needed in Germany, especially the South and, like mentioned, my hometown Augsburg. Good for YT for supporting the locals. Riding is illegal in most public places here...
  • 2 0
 new forest ranger there is an absolute disgrace, I think they completely demolished almost all the trails by now
  • 2 0
 It would be better if all the bike companies here in Germany (including YT) could help in changing/reformating the laws regarding cycling....Whats the use in donating to local clubs when for example in BW(Baden-Wurtenberg) is forbiden for a rider to enter a trail which is less than 2 meter wide?(apart from the official trails ) That would be a terrific effort and a long term investment for them.That would be a donation....hire lawyers and try to convince the politicians that mountainbiking is not only on fireroads....the public already konw it and the majority respects it too.
  • 17 13
 "YT Industries has chosen to donate 3% of proceeds from bikes purchased within Germany in the latter six months of 2020... “
That's funny, the above makes it look like YT are really nice guys and are donating part of their income but it's actually far from truth.
Basically every customer instead of paying 16% VAT, they are ate paying 19% and
  • 14 20
flag dick-pound (Jan 8, 2021 at 16:15) (Below Threshold)
 ... YT is forcing the customer to give that 3% to charity. I find this proposterous. If YT would say the customer pays 3% and we do the same that would be something. Shame on you YT, never buying a bike from you again.
  • 12 7
 @dick-pound:

don’t be an ass, dick.
  • 6 5
 @dick-pound: they could’ve just kept it and not said anything... durrrrr
  • 7 3
 And you can sure as shit guarantee that the donations look fantastic on their balance sheet, reducing their tax liabilities. I find this kind of “philanthropy” to be utter bullshit. So many companies pull it. Not passing on a tax reduction to consumers? Not even satanized is that bad.
  • 6 1
 @TypicalCanadian: No, they basically raised the prices of their bikes for the German market. It's a freaking cheap marketing strategy. YT still gets the same gross margin from every bike they sell in DE, they are not giving anything to charity, it's the customer who's giving that money to charity, and above all, YT might even get "tax reductions" for charity. It's a despicable behavior and can't believe people are too blind not to see it.
  • 4 2
 @TypicalCanadian: no, because nearly every company reduced their prices like the government intended, and every consumer saw reduced prices and that would have been a shitstorm on its own "look at capitalist yt increasing the prices again"
  • 2 4
 @dick-pound: sorry that some extra money went to the groups that build the trails you ride instead of going into your pockets.
  • 6 3
 @TypicalCanadian: You're missing the point, YT is not giving anything to charity but forcing customers to do so, while they still earn the same gross income for each single bike they sell. Ludicrous at best.
I believe you guys don't quite get because you pay sales tax upon checkout but in EU prices include value added tax (VAT).
So basically if the gross price of a bike was €1000 + 19% tax, the net price would be €1190.
The same bike with a decreased VAT to 16% would be €1160, in this case, YT raised the gross price to €1025.86 + 16% VAT is a net price of €1190.
YT basically raised the price of their bikes so customers can't take advantage of decreased VAT, so a bike with 16% VAT costs the same as previously with 19% VAT.
I don't like anybody imposing where my money should go to, even less when they are actually taking advantage of it, cause there's obviously a conflict of interest on YTs behalf.
If YT would have given the option and said, for every person that donates the difference, we donate the same on top, that would have been something but this is not the case, they are actually earning from it while making it look like they are charitable. It's despicable!!!
  • 3 3
 @dick-pound: you’re pretty worked up about a small amount of money going to charity, so I’m going to bow out...
  • 3 0
 @TypicalCanadian: There's a big difference between charity and a conflict of interest, and I'm very sorry for you if you can't understand it.
  • 1 0
 @dick-pound: I do miss the donation in your calculation...
  • 1 0
 @TonieMelonie: It's should be self explanatory but as my mentors always told me: "explain it as if everybody is a freaking idiot", the donation amount is the difference between the previous gross price and the inflated one.
  • 6 0
 So YT makes the same amount as ever, donates your money, and markets it like they are the doing something awesome?

Get tha f*ck outta here!
  • 5 0
 “Turns out there’s no such thing as the human fund”
  • 3 2
 VAT is something that customer pays and than company has to give it to government.
Lets say bike costs 1000e without tax so the customer have to add 19% to the price as VAT.
Than we have a taxed price 1190e in 2020 year.

Next year 2021 the government reduces tax to 16% so having the same assumption that untaxed bike is 1000e new taxed price for consumer should be 1160e. So the bike is 30e cheaper and government reduced tax so consumer has to pay less -> more consumer buys -> industry is still working but government makes less money from tax.

But YT wants to donate this 3% points difference. How they will do it?
1. They can give part of their income in this case 30e so they will earn less (970e per bike).
2. They can rise the base price to 1025,86e so after 16% tax price is still 1190e so buyer cant feel the decrease of tax and pays the same as last year but YT has extra 25,86e which they can claim as income or donate somewhere (pays less income tax while doing donations).

Than it is interesting what are those non profits. Who owns them. Remember that non profit commonly pays money for management. Part of donations is spent for the operation of the foundation and part for actions they are involved in.
Only serial worker who makes the dirty job is volunteer and doesn't take money for work because he needs points for college or references for future work.

So if someone likes conspiracy theories than can assume the part of donation will be kept by someone from YT or neighborhood who is owner of non profit and pays himself for ruling the foundation.

If you have too much time read about father Rydzyk and his foundation Lux Veritas, that government pays donations for higher goals but money stays in hands of Rydzyk.
  • 1 0
 you don't have to read about conspiracy theories.It is pure arithmetics.
Assuming that the pre-VAT price remains stable* ok?
The final price for the customer (including VAT) remains the same, even if the VAT is now 16%.
The customer pays according to 19% but the VAT is 16%.
This 3% remains in the pockets of YT. This 3% was donated.period.

*The whole game is that the companies have increased the base price. It is exaclty the same game when there is a Black Friday,St.Patrick etc sale..... e.g. 60% on an already inflated msrp value..
  • 1 0
 ja pierdole. nie mówcie w PL ze można obniżyć 25% VAT! f..k me don't say in Poland that VAT does not have to be the highest in the world!
  • 1 0
 In PL they are rising taxes right now in name of fighting with crisis. Opposite as half of the Europe but fun fact everything they want to implement is justified that Europe does the same...
  • 2 0
 TSV Eibelstadt

www.facebook.com/FlowtrailEibelstadt

We open again in spring! You are welcome!
  • 3 2
 Have not read all comments, but almost all negative comments are from German users... Sorry World for this German behavior not to begrudge success or benefits to others
  • 2 0
 you'd better read all the comments then, or maybe you don't understand irony.
  • 3 0
 Maybe becasue the rest of the world think's they really spend money while they just took your money and used it for their marketing.
  • 1 0
 Not related to the article really, but i really dig this wheel/tire graphics blend! Do they make any worthy tires?
  • 4 0
 Those tires right there are top tier. The TRSr is on my top two list of best front tires, with the Assegai maxxgrip in 3rd (or all three at the top).
  • 3 0
 Yeah the new e13 Gen 3 tires are awesome. I wasn't a huge fan of their previous version (bit too square for me), but the tires they have had out in the past year are sweet. I run LG1 EN in the rear and TRS in the front. The Mopo (softest) compound also grips like no other....
  • 1 1
 @Marky771: im more into really durable tire,.. running maxxis DH rear and DD front. We have too many sharp rocks here.
  • 1 0
 I removed the decals and use Maxxis. Was no fan at all of these particular tyres.
  • 1 0
 @Marky771: I like them square like that. I fear the new ones might just overlap with the Assegai. I like a defined support.
  • 1 0
 @Spiral23: They're plenty durable. E13 makes a DH casing too. LG1 DH = Maxxis DH. LG1 EN= Maxxis DD and TRS = Maxxis EXO+
  • 2 0
 @stoo61: Fair enough. I personally hate Maxxis after getting 3 wobbly casings in a row. The Gen 3 e13 roll well, and are better than a Maxxis in every way IMHO. You may have tried the more square earlier version which were pretty polarizing. People either loved or hated them.
  • 1 0
 @covekid: thx for info!
  • 1 0
 @covekid: Which ever ones came on this very bike.
  • 1 0
 Augsburg and Gersthofen are next to each other. Really glad the region gets a boost.
  • 6 3
 Das ist gut!
  • 5 3
 Lot better then peice of shit specialized ceo
  • 2 3
 It's funny to me that the Canadians and some Americans are the ones defending YT. Considering these same idiots are the ones who voted for communism. SMH, you people make me sick.
  • 5 3
 good on ya YT
  • 5 3
 Respect!
  • 1 0
 such a click bait pic I was hoping for new Capra
  • 1 0
 That escalated real quick....... said Ron Burgundy
  • 2 0
 YT Rocks!!!
  • 1 1
 Capra 2021 made with textreme by Rickter composites Thailand
  • 1 4
 out of stock
  • 2 3
 Should have put the money to their warranty services...
  • 5 3
 Should have given the money to the customers and let them decide what they want to do with it.
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