Haro Steel Reserve 8 bike.
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- Album
- Haro-Street-BIke
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- Bikes - Dirt/Street/Park
- Date Posted
- Jun 17, 2009 at 11:52Jun 17, 2009
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Chilliwack, British Columbia, Canada
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- Haro Steel Reserve Eight - Bike Check
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81 Comments
- 14 2
Josh-Grywacheski
(Jun 17, 2009 at 15:59)
ewww gears
- 3 6
i wouldnt want hydros on my dj/street bike. They are more expensive to run and i dont want corosive hydro fluid on my frame if a cable breaks. Im sure the bb5s would lock up nicely and do the job fine. its all about making a bike simple
- 9 1
Mineral oil is not corrosive. Only Hayes, Formula, and Avid use Dot oil that will take your paint off. Also, I have never had a hose break on my bike, but I have had a cable from a mechanical disc brake break.
- 3 1
thats probably because u were riding a crappy mech cable. ive never had any problems with the ones i have owned. i think mech brakes are much more easyer to maintain and are alot more dependable then hydros. plus you dont even need the power of a hydro brake for d/j / street riding. mechs work just fine and do the job in my experence. if i had v brake mounts on my frame id ride v brakes. if your brake locks up and modulates then it is fine
- 1 2
well explain how you broke it cheif then tell me why a hydro cable wouldnt have done that. and a cheap shimano cable cant compare to a quality bmx linear slick cable
- 2 1
Ok first of all, hydraulic disc brakes don't use cables, they use hoses. Second of all, almost any cable will fatigue over time, and mine just happened to be at the end of its life when I pulled it. Hydraulic fluid doesn't fatigue, so there is no way that it would have failed.
- 1 1
first of all u should stop being so literal i ment hose (im sorry that i messed up). second of all hydrolics are twice as expensive to buy and maintian for the same job and i would say alot less dependable then a nice mech brake. Truth is simple designs work the best. And i would rather have a bb5 on this ride then any hydrolic brake
- 2 0
If you think about it, a hydraulic system is much less complicated than a cable system. You have a lever with a piston that moves fluid through a hose down to a caliper where a couple more pistons are that actuate at the same time. A cable brake has steel-lined housing, a steel-braided cable that stretches with every use, and a caliper with one spring-actuated piston and one fixed piston. The cable-actuated side presses the rotor over into the stationary side, putting uneven pressure on it and wearing the brake pads unevenly.
An Avid BB5 brake caliper costs about $50, cables are $3.99, housing is generally $1.50-$2.00 a foot, and a decent lever costs about $20 or so. For the sake of this comparison, we'll use a one-year riding period. Over a year, you'll probably replace your cable/housing at least once every two months, that's $3.99+$6+$10-$15 (labor to install). That adds up to approximately between $20 and $25. So your mechanical brake, which initially costs you about $80 (without labor to install) now costs you $100-$105.
An Avid Juicy 3 costs $88. During the one year riding period, you may have to bleed your brake once, which costs about $15 or so to do. Sure, the final price is not that different, but you've saved yourself lots of time not having to replace your cable every two months or so.
In conclusion, I'd rather have the lamest hydraulic brake than even the nicest mechanical brake for ease of maintenance and best overall feel.
An Avid BB5 brake caliper costs about $50, cables are $3.99, housing is generally $1.50-$2.00 a foot, and a decent lever costs about $20 or so. For the sake of this comparison, we'll use a one-year riding period. Over a year, you'll probably replace your cable/housing at least once every two months, that's $3.99+$6+$10-$15 (labor to install). That adds up to approximately between $20 and $25. So your mechanical brake, which initially costs you about $80 (without labor to install) now costs you $100-$105.
An Avid Juicy 3 costs $88. During the one year riding period, you may have to bleed your brake once, which costs about $15 or so to do. Sure, the final price is not that different, but you've saved yourself lots of time not having to replace your cable every two months or so.
In conclusion, I'd rather have the lamest hydraulic brake than even the nicest mechanical brake for ease of maintenance and best overall feel.
- 1 2
"If you think about it, a mechanical system is much less complicated than a hydrolic system." You have a lever which is attached to a cable that when u use the lever tightens the cable therefore pushing the pads in. It is pretty evident that you know obvously nothing about mechanical brakes im pretty sure a bb7 (also a nice cheap mech) is one of the many mech brakes in which both pads move in to compress the rotor. Only the lowest end mech brakes push in one pad.(and who cares as long as it stops you right?)
- 2 1
A bb5 does cost $50 (congrats) and u can get a nice bmx linear slick cable with all you need for under 15 bucks.
For the sake of comparison ill use my own experence with my set up. I have just a shimano disc brake that i bought off a friend for $20, i bought a wethepeople linear slick cable for about $13 and i got my lever for free. Over 3 years i have same set up and i havent had to replace my cable/ housing once. And honestly i installed it myself.(you would have to be pretty dumb not to be able to install/ understand a mech brake) Therefore 0 dollars labour. The trick is to buy a nice bmx linear slick cable and not cheap cables that lose their tention easily. (the ones ur talking about)
So to be fair im gonna say that i have the bb5 instead (more then what i paid) and the pads are 6 dollars and ive gone threw to sets including originals. (one set per year)
So 50+20(for a lever)+13(cable)+6+6=$95 for 3 years use thats 7 dollars more expensive then buying just an avid juicy 3 (which 3 of my friends ride and hate btw)
Now i dont know wut shop you go to but most bike shops charge about $50 an hours labour for bleeding brakes (excluding pads and fluid) . Also alot of pads for hydrolic brakes such as the hayes nine pads are about 25 dollars each. (cant just shove any pad in their)
So lets see avid juicy 3 = 88(initial cost) + (25 (will say just back brake)+50(labour)) = 163 for one year
now lets see how much in 3 years 163 +75 +75= 313.
So $313 in three years compared to $95 (for 3 years use). 313 / 95 = 3.2 (repeated)
so 95x3.2= $313
So $95 is how much it cost for 3 years so 3.2x3= 9.6 years of use to reach the same cost as 3 years of using the low end avid juicy 3.
For the sake of comparison ill use my own experence with my set up. I have just a shimano disc brake that i bought off a friend for $20, i bought a wethepeople linear slick cable for about $13 and i got my lever for free. Over 3 years i have same set up and i havent had to replace my cable/ housing once. And honestly i installed it myself.(you would have to be pretty dumb not to be able to install/ understand a mech brake) Therefore 0 dollars labour. The trick is to buy a nice bmx linear slick cable and not cheap cables that lose their tention easily. (the ones ur talking about)
So to be fair im gonna say that i have the bb5 instead (more then what i paid) and the pads are 6 dollars and ive gone threw to sets including originals. (one set per year)
So 50+20(for a lever)+13(cable)+6+6=$95 for 3 years use thats 7 dollars more expensive then buying just an avid juicy 3 (which 3 of my friends ride and hate btw)
Now i dont know wut shop you go to but most bike shops charge about $50 an hours labour for bleeding brakes (excluding pads and fluid) . Also alot of pads for hydrolic brakes such as the hayes nine pads are about 25 dollars each. (cant just shove any pad in their)
So lets see avid juicy 3 = 88(initial cost) + (25 (will say just back brake)+50(labour)) = 163 for one year
now lets see how much in 3 years 163 +75 +75= 313.
So $313 in three years compared to $95 (for 3 years use). 313 / 95 = 3.2 (repeated)
so 95x3.2= $313
So $95 is how much it cost for 3 years so 3.2x3= 9.6 years of use to reach the same cost as 3 years of using the low end avid juicy 3.
- 1 2
So it would take about 9.6 years of riding the mech brake in order to match the avids cost of 3 years and from my knolledge the avid juicy 3 is one of the lowest performing hydrolic brakes and my friends have had to get them bled more then once a year. Also i see you have strokers trails on your "street" bike i bet those cost more than $88 new. (duh) If you dont want a crappy hydrolic your going to be looking at alot more then 88 dollars.
In conclusion id rather have a simple, more dependable, cheaper to maintain brake, then a hole bunch of extra stuff you dont need. I believe that hydros are a great idea for downhill and freeriding but for street i think its just a dumb desision. Now u can take what ever you want from that "Mr.seraph". Riding hydros on a street bike might as well have an on and off button instead of a lever hahaha.
In my opinon mechs have the best feel for that style and are easyeir to adjust.
In conclusion id rather have a simple, more dependable, cheaper to maintain brake, then a hole bunch of extra stuff you dont need. I believe that hydros are a great idea for downhill and freeriding but for street i think its just a dumb desision. Now u can take what ever you want from that "Mr.seraph". Riding hydros on a street bike might as well have an on and off button instead of a lever hahaha.
In my opinon mechs have the best feel for that style and are easyeir to adjust.
- 2 1
"is pretty evident that you know obvously nothing about mechanical brakes im pretty sure a bb7 (also a nice cheap mech) is one of the many mech brakes in which both pads move in to compress the rotor. Only the lowest end mech brakes push in one pad.(and who cares as long as it stops you right?)" This is untrue. All mechanical brakes have only one piston that moves. Both pistons moving would require two lever arms and a split cable.
- 2 1
All right, you want to use personal experience for an example? Fine, then we'll go with mine.
I bought a disc brake, never had to bleed it, and I still have it. See how that screws things up when you use a non-controlled situation? I was using a one-year riding period as an example to fit the braking needs of everyone, not one person in particular.
I bought a disc brake, never had to bleed it, and I still have it. See how that screws things up when you use a non-controlled situation? I was using a one-year riding period as an example to fit the braking needs of everyone, not one person in particular.
- 1 2
im pretty sure ur wrong as then the local shop i go to is wrong their is a way to make both sides close in and im pretty sure the bb7 is an example and as i said who cares as long as it stops, good for it. hah. i have never had a problem with un even brake pad wear hmmm.
and for ur second comment? i wasnt using personal experence when i calculated the prices. a linear slick cable will last a good few years compared to the cheap ones u bought.
Ya and i was using a 3 year period because i have had the brake 3 years with no problems. You said hydros are cheaper, stronger, and less mainteness which is not the case.
As for you buying ur brake.. who cares? i dont see how this is relavent to which brake is better/ more apropriate for this style of riding.
I think you should read your posts more.
and for ur second comment? i wasnt using personal experence when i calculated the prices. a linear slick cable will last a good few years compared to the cheap ones u bought.
Ya and i was using a 3 year period because i have had the brake 3 years with no problems. You said hydros are cheaper, stronger, and less mainteness which is not the case.
As for you buying ur brake.. who cares? i dont see how this is relavent to which brake is better/ more apropriate for this style of riding.
I think you should read your posts more.
- 2 1
I read and review my posts thoroughly before I post them, thank you very much.
I never said hydraulic disc brakes were cheaper than mechanical brakes, I said that they would be a better investment and less hassle over a one year period.
Also, I have been a bike mechanic for 10 years and there has never been a full-mechanical brake that actuates both pistons with one cable. The difference between BB7 and BB5 brakes is that the BB7 brake allows the user to adjust the spring tension on the piston arm and to adjust the position of the fixed (inboard) pad manually. The BB5 does not allow either of these adjustments.
The only semi-mechanical brake to ever allow full actuation of both pistons at the same time was the old Hayes hydraulic mechanical, which used a cable to actuate a hydraulic caliper.
Also, you say that you're not using personal experience as an example, then you go and use first person to further your argument ("Ya and i was using a 3 year period because i have had the brake 3 years with no problems...")
You're all over the map, boy.
I never said hydraulic disc brakes were cheaper than mechanical brakes, I said that they would be a better investment and less hassle over a one year period.
Also, I have been a bike mechanic for 10 years and there has never been a full-mechanical brake that actuates both pistons with one cable. The difference between BB7 and BB5 brakes is that the BB7 brake allows the user to adjust the spring tension on the piston arm and to adjust the position of the fixed (inboard) pad manually. The BB5 does not allow either of these adjustments.
The only semi-mechanical brake to ever allow full actuation of both pistons at the same time was the old Hayes hydraulic mechanical, which used a cable to actuate a hydraulic caliper.
Also, you say that you're not using personal experience as an example, then you go and use first person to further your argument ("Ya and i was using a 3 year period because i have had the brake 3 years with no problems...")
You're all over the map, boy.
- 1 1
"Sure, the final price is not that different, but you've saved yourself lots of time not having to replace your cable every two months or so" aha right their u are saying they are the same price. hah and your saying u have to replace a cable every 2 months haa
- 1 1
and think are the people who buy this bike only going to have it for a one year period?? wow serously ur no thinking at all
- 2 2
You're an idiot, I was using a one year period as a controlled length of time in which to illustrate how much money one might spend on a brake.
- 2 2
thats great that ur a mechanic congrats. you think you at all people would realise how much cheaper and nice a mech system is compared to a low end hydrolic u were comparing 2. in maintence and original cost.
and u were using personal experence saying that people go threw a cable ever 2 months which is bull unless u buy the cheapest cable ever.
i guess ur right about only piston goes in. but as i said who cares? it works and locks up as fine as a hydrolic.
its not just personal experence its experences that all my friends have had to. Cheap hydros are not a better choice than a nice mech. and nice hydro ones are just more power u dont need and more money to do the same job. point is having a bb5 on this bike is a smart idea.
i guess you just dont understand where u r in this argument but want to continue arguing and making a fool of urself. hah have fun : )
and u were using personal experence saying that people go threw a cable ever 2 months which is bull unless u buy the cheapest cable ever.
i guess ur right about only piston goes in. but as i said who cares? it works and locks up as fine as a hydrolic.
its not just personal experence its experences that all my friends have had to. Cheap hydros are not a better choice than a nice mech. and nice hydro ones are just more power u dont need and more money to do the same job. point is having a bb5 on this bike is a smart idea.
i guess you just dont understand where u r in this argument but want to continue arguing and making a fool of urself. hah have fun : )
- 2 1
I continue this discussion because I disagree with you on many points you've tried to make. A mechanical brake is NEVER going to be as powerful as a hydraulic, and will ultimately be more hassle in the long run. The only reason it's ok to have mechanicals on this brake is in the situation where the rider wants to use a detangler system.
- 2 2
i think my points were clearly made such as mechs are stronger, cheaper and over all better for this bike.
Mechs deleiver more than enough power for dj and street, and if ur wheel locks up when u need it then its good : ). hydrolic maitnence is more expensive. simple designs are the best.
thats realy funny because my mechs and friends mechs have been pretty hassle free.
talk about their hydros though and its a different story.
The reason its ok to have mechs on this bike is because they work fine are cheaper to maintain and as simple as can be and wont give ya a trouble.
Mechs deleiver more than enough power for dj and street, and if ur wheel locks up when u need it then its good : ). hydrolic maitnence is more expensive. simple designs are the best.
thats realy funny because my mechs and friends mechs have been pretty hassle free.
talk about their hydros though and its a different story.
The reason its ok to have mechs on this bike is because they work fine are cheaper to maintain and as simple as can be and wont give ya a trouble.
- 1 0
Mechanicals are not more powerful for one major reason: cables stretch, liquid does not. Flex in your brake line = loss of power.
I still think this bike would be better off with hydraulic brakes.
I still think this bike would be better off with hydraulic brakes.
- 1 2
i never said mechs are more powerful. but as long as the mech locks up ( all the power u need : ) when u want them 2 then ur good.
get a nice cable and maintain it. wow so hard
I still think your blind.
get a nice cable and maintain it. wow so hard
I still think your blind.
- 1 1
"i think my points were clearly made such as mechs are stronger, cheaper and over all better for this bike."
Seriously dude.
Seriously dude.
- 2 1
Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one then. I have found that BB7s suck ass and even the cheapest hydraulic brake available is more powerful.
- 1 0
omg ur using personal experence!!!!! "See how that screws things up when you use a non-controlled situation?" hmm alot of my friends have bb5s and 7s never heard of any problems. power is not the key. as long as the wheel locks its all good
- 2 1
I'm only stooping to your level so you'll understand me, and it hardly screws things up. You're just trying to be witty, and failing miserably.
- 1 1
ahhahaahahaha my level eh? im sory im not "MR PRO mechanic" who thinks he knows way to much about bikes... ahahaha
your the one making urself look stupid by not admitting that a mech is a good desision for this bike. ud rather stick to ur idea that the juicy 3 is sooo much better. haha
thanks for arguing, gave me some good laughs
your the one making urself look stupid by not admitting that a mech is a good desision for this bike. ud rather stick to ur idea that the juicy 3 is sooo much better. haha
thanks for arguing, gave me some good laughs
- 2 1
thats the funniest comment "war" ive seen.. seraph, you know your stuff. Riot-Rider doesnt want to admit that he is wrong. haha.
- 2 2
actualy thats another point. mech brakes modulate alot better then hydros. i was talking about wheel locking cuz mr seraph was saying that hydros are more powerful.. but if ur wheel locks when u want it to, what extra power do u need? see?
im not wrong though mechs are cheaper and less maintence and just do the job better. seraph thinks that the lowest end hydro set up is better then any mech, he even said he would run juicy 3s over any mech setup. juicy 3s are crappy. 3 of my friends have ran into some serous troubles with them already this summer on their new bikes. a mech set up is the smartest idea for a bike like this. cheap strong simple and gets the job done. one thing they could improve though would be making it singlespeed but im not gonna get into that
im not wrong though mechs are cheaper and less maintence and just do the job better. seraph thinks that the lowest end hydro set up is better then any mech, he even said he would run juicy 3s over any mech setup. juicy 3s are crappy. 3 of my friends have ran into some serous troubles with them already this summer on their new bikes. a mech set up is the smartest idea for a bike like this. cheap strong simple and gets the job done. one thing they could improve though would be making it singlespeed but im not gonna get into that
- 2 1
or you can just get like elixirs or juicy 7's or saints or xt's and not really have to worry about them.. splurge alittle, get some nice brakes.
- 1 2
and what is the price for a juicy 7 or saints or xt's?????
quite a bit more then a nice mech system that does the job perfectly.
i dont worry about my mech setup no problems in 3 years so far and same for my friends no problems with their mechs.
hydros are just alot more money for the same job.
mechs are a better choice for this bike.
quite a bit more then a nice mech system that does the job perfectly.
i dont worry about my mech setup no problems in 3 years so far and same for my friends no problems with their mechs.
hydros are just alot more money for the same job.
mechs are a better choice for this bike.
- 2 1
I wouldn't say that mech brakes work "perfectly," brother. Since you insist upon using personal experiences with mechanical brakes, then I must say that every hydraulic brake I have ever had has worked perfectly, and every mechanical brake I have had has failed miserably.
Hydraulics aren't "just a lot more money for the same job," they're a bit more money for a much more powerful, better feeling, and better modulating brake. Why wouldn't you want to pay $30-$50 more for a brake that is going to perform better in every aspect of braking?
Hydraulics aren't "just a lot more money for the same job," they're a bit more money for a much more powerful, better feeling, and better modulating brake. Why wouldn't you want to pay $30-$50 more for a brake that is going to perform better in every aspect of braking?
- 2 2
im not your brother, son. haha. maybe its because every mech brake u have had was a realy low end one.
have u had a juicy 3? thats the brake you were talking about earlier. Ask anyone who has ridden them, they are crap.
And how did ur mech brake fail???? You probably didnt have a good set up.
and yes hydrolics are alot more money. their more then $50 compared to a nice mech setup and cost more to maintain.
and i have to disagree with you again, mechs modulate nicer then hydros hands down. and as i said as long as the wheel locks up when u need it what extra power do you need?
a mech set up is better then a hydro set up for this bike
have u had a juicy 3? thats the brake you were talking about earlier. Ask anyone who has ridden them, they are crap.
And how did ur mech brake fail???? You probably didnt have a good set up.
and yes hydrolics are alot more money. their more then $50 compared to a nice mech setup and cost more to maintain.
and i have to disagree with you again, mechs modulate nicer then hydros hands down. and as i said as long as the wheel locks up when u need it what extra power do you need?
a mech set up is better then a hydro set up for this bike
- 2 2
If BB7s are low end mech brakes then I have been misinformed.
Yes, I have ridden Juicy 3s, they were nice for how much money they cost. The new Juicy 3.5s eclipse them by far, and have a plethora of new features over their predecessor.
Mechanicals do not modulate better than hydraulics, there is no way you will convince me or anyone else of that.
- 1 2
haha alright buddy. u can go ahead and think that. what was ur cable and lever set up? probably shit which would explain alot. im done arguing here, i realise that their is no sence arguing with a retard
- 1 2
I think you have it backwards there, buddy. Considering the fact that you can't even spell or use proper grammar, I'm pretty sure that I'm the one who is arguing with a retard.
- 3 1
I think you mean "you're", the contraction of you and are; not "your", the possessive form of you.
- 1 1
meh its the internet, i dont care about having 100 percent perfect grammar. as long as the point gets across.
- 2 1
If you type like a retard, you put the point across that you are a retard. Even if you are correct, you still look like a dumb ass.
- 1 1
hahahahahaha! seraph is just sad because he knows im right so he tries to chap my grammar to get attention off of his agument ideas
- 2 1
I already know I'm right, I just wanted to point out the fact that you're not only wrong, but an idiot as well.
- 2 3
Drop that standover height and raise that BB height and you'd have a better bike.
Right now it look's like they took the geo or a large haro thread one aluminum DJ bike and make the same bike out of steel.
Id give it a 5/10 for effort. But i mean come on, hydros, geared, front brake, huge frame. Youd have to buy a small just to get the fit.
Companies like dobermann, NS, Leaf, Blck Mrkt and other still have the market for these bikes, and they do it well.
I think mainstream companies like haro, kona and such should stop trying to compete, its a shitty attempt.
Right now it look's like they took the geo or a large haro thread one aluminum DJ bike and make the same bike out of steel.
Id give it a 5/10 for effort. But i mean come on, hydros, geared, front brake, huge frame. Youd have to buy a small just to get the fit.
Companies like dobermann, NS, Leaf, Blck Mrkt and other still have the market for these bikes, and they do it well.
I think mainstream companies like haro, kona and such should stop trying to compete, its a shitty attempt.
- 7 0
Think about the first time you bought a hardtail? You most likely were not looking at NS, Dobermann, or Blk Mrkt's, this is because bikes such as the Haro Reserve appeal to the beginning rider. Features such as gyro tabs and singlespeed attract younger, uneducated riders that want to be like the pros. Kona blatantly markets their bikes towards younger riders for this very reason.
The truth is that most people stop riding bicycles past the age of 15. By pushing your product onto the age group beneath that threshold you will be making much more money than selling a higher end product to few buyers. If you think about it through this mentality, the lower end companies really do control the market for dirt jump bikes.
I am in no way a fan of the Reserve, but every bike has a place in the industry, no matter how unappealing it is.
The truth is that most people stop riding bicycles past the age of 15. By pushing your product onto the age group beneath that threshold you will be making much more money than selling a higher end product to few buyers. If you think about it through this mentality, the lower end companies really do control the market for dirt jump bikes.
I am in no way a fan of the Reserve, but every bike has a place in the industry, no matter how unappealing it is.