Cane Creek Announces the DB Kitsuma Shock

Sep 1, 2020 at 11:01
by Cane Creek  

PRESS RELEASE: Cane Creek - Fletcher, NC USA

bigquotesThe whole idea behind the DB Kitsuma shock was to take a complex and high-tech piece of componentry and make it very intuitive and easy to use for the rider. From our time meeting and riding with riders and dealers at events across the country it became clear that most riders’ suspension settings are not optimal – in many cases the suspension may be hindering riders. One of the reasons is that dialing in suspension is largely a trial and error process on the trail which is hampered by access and the need for tools. Thus, we set out to make it easy for riders to get the most out of their shock by making adjustments easier and less intimidating.Jeff LaForge, Cane Creek Design Engineer

DB Kitsuma — Pro-tune at Your Fingertips
Cane Creek is proud to announce the DB Kitsuma, a highly adjustable rear shock built for maximum performance in a design that is incredibly intuitive and easy to use. Grounded in the DNA of the original Double Barrel line of shocks, DB Kitsuma improves on its predecessors in almost every way. It caters to all varieties of riding styles, body types, and bicycle frame designs without the need for any internal valving adjustments, changes or compromises.



Tool-Free Adjustment
The way the rider interfaces with the shock has also been completely reimagined. No need to crane your neck under your bike while fumbling with tiny allen wrenches to make adjustments. DB Kitsuma sports completely tool-free adjusters that are ergonomically designed to be easily accessible and adjustable trail-side – giving riders the power of a pro-tune at their fingertips.


See & Feel What Your Settings Are.
Gone are the days of counting clicks backward and forward to know where you are and make adjustments. The entire range of DB Kitsuma’s low-speed compression and rebound circuits are controlled within a single rotation, while the high-speed circuits are controlled within two rotations, allowing the rider to easily reference where they are within their adjustments at a glance. The rider has full control and a true sense for how their bike will perform in a variety of real-world scenarios thanks to DB Kitsuma’s large multi-indexed adjusters.

Additionally, labels on the adjusters have been simplified to “soft” and “firm” for compression and “slow” and “fast” for rebound to better illustrate how the adjustment affects ride feel and to give riders confidence to make trail-side adjustments.

Finally, DB Kitsuma simplifies the tuning process by increasing the range of adjustment while reducing the number of external positions in each circuit - making each position more meaningful and discernable on the trail. All these improvements add up to a high-performance tuning experience that is incredibly intuitive and accessible right on the trail
Tuned for Today’s (and Tomorrow’s) Bikes
DB Kitsuma also boasts a wider range of damping adjustment on the compression circuit and increased range of rebound control over any other major shock on the market today. The rebound range has also been shifted downward for more rebound damping to accommodate the higher spring rates needed for more modern bikes. These changes combine to allow the DB Kitsuma to provide peak performance on a wider range of bikes.

3-2-1-Climb
Simple yet effective – DB Kitsuma is equipped with a three-position climb switch that moves the shock between three distinct modes, drastically affecting the shock’s feel and character. The new three position climb switch retains Double Barrel’s “Descend” mode and it’s patented “CS” mode which provides a stable, yet responsive platform engineered to maximize traction and pedal efficiency while climbing over technical terrain and singletrack. DB Kitsuma adds a new “Firm” mode, that excels at pedaling over long stretches of pavement or gravel roads on your way to the trail.

No Detail Overlooked
In addition to improvements in accessibility and tuning range, DB Kitsuma has seen a series of significant improvements over previous Double Barrel shocks. These include an improved oil piston that’s been ported and polished to increase responsiveness, a new monoblock design oil seal head for improved alignment and durability, progressive bottom-out bumper for a more gradual bottom out and longer shaft bushings, larger shaft quad rings and uncut back-up rings on the air pistons to improve performance and reliability.

DB Kitsuma's (left) revised air spring packs even more on-trail sensitivity into a new compact design
A new progressive bottom-out bumper (left) provides additional support during heavy impacts

Ported & Polished oil piston, new "Monoblock" oil seal head + air piston design, longer shaft bushings, larger shaft quad rings and uncut back-up rings all work together to increase responsiveness, durability and reliability

A Better Shock for More Bikes
Redesigned with the geometry of modern bikes in mind, DB Kitsuma’s new valve body and tapered air-can cuts 16mm of length off the external reservoir and reduces the air can’s outer diameter at the end-eye. All-in-all, this adds up to a new low-profile design which allows DB Kitsuma to fit more bikes free of frame-clearance issues.

DB Kitsuma's shorter external reservoir provides more clearance at full bottom out

Rider Designed • Rider Developed • Rider Built
Like all Cane Creek Suspension, DB Kitsuma is designed, developed and hand-built by riders in Western North Carolina. Informed by the endless climbs and technical descents of the Pisgah National Forest the DB Kitsuma was born from the experience of the hardcore riders who call Cane Creek home. This shock was developed completely in-house by Cane Creek’s engineering team and rigorously tested on some of North America’s most legendary trails.

bigquotesAt Cane Creek, we will only develop a product if we believe it truly adds something to cycling. With DB Kitsuma, we know we’ve done that. From the fact that you no longer need to fumble with tools to tune your shock, to the increased damping and rebound range allowing for more bikes and more types of riders, to the various small improvements that add up to significant gains in performance – it all comes together to make what we think is a big step forward in mountain bike suspension.Brent Graves, Cane Creek President and CEO


Kitsuma Peak mountain biking trails
What’s in a Name?
The name DB Kitsuma honors both the heritage of the original Double Barrel (DB) shock and the legendary Kitsuma trail that lies just a short drive northeast of Cane Creek’s Headquarters. With a grueling climb that combines a mix of road and technical singletrack followed by a grin-inducing two mile ridgeline decent, the Kitsuma trail highlights some of the best riding that Western North Carolina has to offer and showcases the versatility and performance of the new DB Kitsuma shock.


TECH SPECS
Weight
- Air (210mm): 585g
- Coil (210mm w/o spring): 417g
Adjuster Positions
- Low Speed Compression: 11 Positions | Single rotation
- Low Speed Rebound: 11 Positions | Single rotation
- High Speed Compression: 14 Positions | Two rotations
- High Speed Rebound: 14 Positions | Two rotations
Max Air Pressure
- 300psi
Shaft Diameter
- Air and Coil: 9.5mm
Damper Oil
- Motorex 4wt
Climb Switch
- Three Position: Descend | Climb | Firm
Eye to Eye Sizes
- Eyelet: 210mm, 230mm, 250mm
- Trunnion: 185mm, 205mm, 225mm


Availability
The DB Kitsuma is available in both coil and air in metric lengths ranging from 185mm to 250mm with a retail price of $699.99 for air and $669.99 for coil (without a spring). A pro-tune at your fingertips is available immediately through Cane Creek retailers, distributors or factory-direct in North America through www.canecreek.com

MENTIONS: @CaneCreekCyclingComponents

Cane Creek Cycling Components - DB Rear Shocks


238 Comments

  • 463 17
 Great, now i can fiddle around and mess up my shock settings in new and exciting ways! All without needing a tool, simply by being one.
  • 28 3
 It's all about ease of use for the consumer. Why make the most frequent thing users do with high end suspension any harder? Let me get straight to making incomprehensibly bad adjustments right away.
  • 2 1
 Love it! Ha!
  • 4 5
 @tehllama: Changing settings if the most frequent thing users do with suspension? It's not riding the bike and using the suspension? My shock has 5 settings (PSI, volume, LSR, LSC, 3-pos switch), and beyond the first half of the first ride on it, I haven't really touched anything since. If I get really tired and slow, maybe I'll add a click of LSR for comfort, but that's it. My fork has 6 (PSI, volume, LSR, HSR, LSC, HSC) and I never touch anything since the initial shakedown. However, I also know that both (especially the fork) are better matched to me and my bike than if I had a "simple" shock with just PSI, volume, & LSR.

If I didn't have the adjustments, I'd be trying to balance things using the "wrong" adjustment: like adding PSI to combat brake dive, and then having to remove spacers to use most of the travel, and then having to speed up rebound to keep the fork high to prevent harsh bottom outs, and now I've sacrificed traction. Worst of all worlds.
  • 10 4
 @just6979: I'm exactly the same. My Float X2 has: Spring Psi, IFP Psi, HSC, LSC, HSR, LSR, and a climb switch to bump up the LSC. I tuned my shock the first few rides, and beyond that I haven't touched the four compression and rebound settings. I prefer them to be recessed hex heads as I will never bump them out of adjustment (or worse break off the adjuster). The climb switch gets used, and I check Psi often, but having big dials on the damping makes zero sense to me either.
  • 3 2
 Can't up-vote this enough
  • 1 0
 Hey this may be a huge contribution to future Friday Fails!!!!
  • 427 6
 As the worst person ever, who like to twist on my friends suspension dails in the lift queue, this shock is a game changer
  • 29 0
 Came straight here to write this, you'd already done it. Top job.
  • 14 0
 "high-speed circuits are controlled within two rotations" true game changer
  • 18 5
 Good way to send your friends OTB and end a park day early.
  • 26 1
 I prefer to make the air hissing out of your tire sound when they are in the start gate.
For some reason, people hate that. Beer
  • 20 1
 So much easier than pumping up their tires to 60psi while they're not paying attention
  • 10 0
 friends like you are why I prefer tooled suspension....
  • 1 0
 this
  • 12 7
 Thats funny, as a prank I could appreciate it. That being said if I caught anyone touching my bike I'd punch them in the neck no questions asked.
  • 3 0
 Being your friend, I wanted this so that I can have a park- and a DH setting on my DH bike, until i read this. DAMNIT Bengt!
  • 4 1
 It's all fun and games until someone breaks a vertebra.
  • 2 1
 That was what I thought when reading the article... Funny how many mad guys are here...
  • 6 13
flag baca262 (Sep 3, 2020 at 5:22) (Below Threshold)
 you tards think you're funny while you could cause serious injury to someone if you made their rebound too fast.

what the f*ck is wrong with you, do you think you live in a kindergarten?
  • 3 0
 Man... @baca262 you just made my day guy. Don't overthink it. Somewhere in the middle is the truth. Beer
  • 5 2
 @baca262:

R/whoooosh

Joke
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V
The top of your head.
  • 2 1
 Wow, wouldn't ever ride with you.
  • 1 0
 @geephlow: Personally I think changing the settings is just too easy. Grab an allen key and switch the shifters of your AXS dropper post buddies during lunch break. Put a little effort in it, please.
  • 1 0
 @blowmyfuse: dude I ran like 20-23psi front and rear and would always get...dude your tires going flat in the start gate! I generally didn’t look and would just respond nah they’re just squishy.
  • 64 7
 Finally a DB that is easier to setup.

Smashing the "Add to Cart" button as hard as possible on this... Way to go Cane Creek!
  • 5 1
 Yup. I loved the ccdba xv Cs on my old bike, but hated that I had to use a cut down Allen key to adjust it without taking it out of the frame. Do want to upgrade to another, and my shock is now vertical so easy access.
  • 2 2
 its no different to my current IL coil apart from the tool free adjustment. The CC app is really good at helping
  • 2 0
 @mtb-scotland: this one adds a third switch - the lockout. And the lockout is REALLY firm. So there's even more to love now =)
  • 2 1
 @Lokirides: I'd be tempted but they are not making it in normal sizes.
  • 4 1
 I hate counting clicks, I hate remembering clicks. Finally someone that understands that we are not WC mechanics showing up at the trailhead with notebooks and pens to write down clicks. Adding a visual interface to an adjustment goes a long way. You just look at it and you know what the setting is.
  • 2 0
 This looks really sweet! Love my DBAir IL shock and Helm fork. Looks like Cane Creek did it again with this one!
  • 47 3
 I've destroyed 3 CC shocks, but I still have a soft spot for them... they feel great. Until the suck a bunch of air into the oil. Or until they suck a bunch more air into the oil. Or until the damper rod on yoru DB coild snaps at the eyelet.
  • 6 2
 Mine leaked right after it was serviced. Not badly, but I check it before every ride now. Pretty annoying.
  • 8 3
 I feel the same way, I blew up my DB Air 3 times in 6 months (all within a year of purchase) and finally sold it for a DVO. I was excited to see this because I'm stoked to see them doing good things still. Hope this one is more reliable.
  • 3 0
 @OGTallPaul: I’ve personally never had issues with CC. But I switched to DVO because they actually had a dual crown fork. Yep one of those people that prefer my front and rear suspension are from the same company.

But I still get CC bottom brackets and headsets.
  • 1 0
 I do agree. They feel great. But had an air and a coil die on me under warranty. CC was great and handling the issues and super fast. Two of the better feeling shocks I've ridden.
  • 4 0
 @OGTallPaul: same, I had 3 different model CC shocks (DB inline, DBcoil IL, and finally the coil CS) over the course of a few years. the first 2 were in and out of warranty service constantly. customer service was fantastic, but i wasn't happy with just how much i had to use the customer service. still a fan of their headsets, but i doubt i'll ever buy another of their shocks

switched to a DVO topaz specifically because it can be fully serviced at home, i'm done sending stuff away for a couple weeks at a time.
  • 2 0
 Went through a few Inlines, which must be among the most destructible bike components available. Really wasn't a fan of being asked to pay extra to upgrade mystery internals under warranty to have a functional product.

Probably won't be buying any suspension after that experience--definitely won't be a new product tester, sorry CC Frown
  • 51 0
 @xeren: the original DB Air Inlines were definitely lemons (the updated Air IL is a lot better), but on the whole we've seen fewer reliability concerns with the CC coil shocks (IL and CS) than most other shocks on the market, although the Coil ILs can break shafts now and then on clevis/yoke frames. The DB Airs CS were good but not great for reliability although they have gotten better over time, whereas these new updates look like they'll address the prior service interval concerns with air ingestion and the potential for stuck-down issues.

A really big improvement here though is the increased rebound range and better deep-stroke control. That is the one thing I was really hoping for and am most glad to see.
  • 2 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: What do you think of their forks? Who do you think has the best damper and fork combo out on the market right now?
  • 2 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: I was looking at the coil Inline due to price for my needs, but the guys at Cane Creek let me know the suspension design on my bike was not a match.

I think people forget sometimes to just call the manufacturer, consult them on what the upgrade is going on and get reliable feedback on what will work best for their bike & style...and USE that info.

The bike suspension's bane of existence used to be all the crazy suspension designs and the shock companies trying to make something that would work on the vast majority of bikes. But more often than not, most any shock was a patch between a frame design concept & a legitamitely sound integration with a reliable shock. I fell like Weagle and Iron Horse were among the first to legitamitely mate a shock and frame to each other to improve reliablity
  • 3 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: you named it partially RIGHT , but spot on: CLEVIS/YOKE is the reasons MOST shocks breaks / explode, no matter their name, brand, or design type. In MX world, all shocks are mounted on the bikes with spherical bearings on top and roller bearing lower side, pushbike's Clevis mount compresses the shock out of its axle easily if it is bad maintained /or rear swing-arm bearings are worn out.

for instance, if we cycle an old CC inline on a dyno for 1 months axially non stop, I bet it won't snap in half as seen happening on many clevis's frames.
  • 1 0
 @DaveGnardo: 100% agreed that it's caused by the frame clevis, but I'm approaching from the angle that if you already have a frame that does have a clevis and you're looking for an aftermarket shock, the DB Coil IL is not robust enough to deal with that side loading, whereas some shocks are fine with it. On non-clevis frames it's a really good shock.
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: that's good to hear. I sold my coil cs before encountering any issues, but the coil il would clunk on every rebound stroke of the shock, like the oil was cavitated by the compression stroke. The first time I sent it in to be replaced they had never seen anything like it on that shock, and the second time I sent it in to be replaced a few months later with the same issue they were seeing in a bunch of bikes, but still didn't know what was causing it.

Because of the several month period where they were saying that my issue was probably not the shock and that it was unique I tore down my entire bike thinking it was a linkage issue or the bearings or something. I replaced all the bearings and lubricated everything, I replaced a bunch of other components none of it helped. More than the money, I spent so much time trying to troubleshoot something that couldn't be troubleshooted.

It just didn't feel good realizing that I was basically a product tester for this new product. Like how did they not do enough testing to discover this issue before putting the shock on the market?
  • 2 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: I always loved my old ccdb’s but hated that they never allowed user service. It wasn’t as big a deal back then because fox was very limited on their information too and Rockshox was the only one allowing access to full service information but their shocks didn’t work as well so that was the trade off. If this was out when I was deciding to do the tractive tune it would have been tempting but still not allowing user service is now a bigger negative since I can just keep rebuilding this one and keeping it running optimally. The tune range is pretty intriguing though but I still get caught up in the debate if shims are truly better than needle and poppet or if how well it’s implemented is more important. HC97 is needle and poppet and works well, I always thought my ccdb’s worked well once dialed and now my tractive super deluxe works well too so maybe it’s more about implementation than just design. I’ll be interested to see a Vorsprung opinion in a tech Tuesday as to if it has anything to offer over a custom shock.
  • 2 0
 @xeren: Same here. Even the couple times I've had to send my DVO stuff out, NJ to Cali, the turnaround was faster.
  • 1 0
 @Happypanda1337: same here, 110 headsets on all my bikes. My OCD got the better of me, once there was a DVO air shock, I went with it.
  • 23 1
 Please make a shock that is easy to service with common tools. When the coil DB is set up correctly it's an excellent perforing shock. If I can't do a simple service at home than the shock and bike sits idle until a proper mechanic can service it. With Covid which isn't going away any time soon there can be a long long wait to get any repairs done. Make it intuative and easy to service.
  • 2 0
 my favorite part is that in the the tech specs blurb they blnote the damper oil, asnif you could service it.
  • 24 1
 This would be a nice change from my X2, I hate pulling out my multi tool to adjust comp and rebound.
  • 32 8
 but honestly you think you tinker with this to the point you need several exposed dials. I would take a tool adjustment simply for the fact I know my settings will remain in place.
  • 20 1
 @BoneDog: I know I personally would adjust it more (i.e. for different trails/riding environments) if I had the option.
  • 2 5
 Honestly how often are you making adjustments? No offense, but you're not Loris or Greg, or Jordi. Just set it to the base tune, tweak/bracket it once or twice, write it down, then forget it and just ride it.
  • 27 8
 Customer feedback "It's too complicated!"
CC Team "We added more dials!"
Customer "it's still too complicated."
CC "Look, no tools!!!"
  • 18 15
 Hi Isaac - It's the same number of dials as the older CS family of shocks. They're just easier to adjust and do not requre tools. Consider double-checking the facts?
  • 9 0
 @someslowguy: jokes are a lot harder if facts are checked, I was mostly referencing the toolless adjustment. I frankly struggled with my CCDB to get things set up and spent a lot of time on it, still not sure it was fully optimized for me. As a consumer, despite the appeal it was beyond what I wanted to spend before being able to get utility from the product. I think they can be great, but I am unlikely to spend the time investment again on my next fs rig. That said, I can't stop thinking about eeWings despite the astronomical price tag...
  • 10 11
 @isaacschmidt: Maybe stick to hardtails bud
  • 3 0
 More dials does not mean "too complicated". There are base tunes for most bikes: you adjust the rebound to match your spring rate, set compression to the recommended setting, and you're already better off than a shock without those settings (unless your weight, frame, riding style, etc, all match up perfectly with the "base tune" of a less adjustable shock)
  • 20 1
 But where is the headphone jack?
  • 16 2
 Unpopular opinion — with things like Specialized’s SWAT box and OneUp EDC products, I’d rather use a tool to adjust the shock so that it doesn’t get bumped during transport. Also, in a couple of clips it looked like the person adjusting one knob accidentally bumped another. Nevertheless, they had a design goal and it looks like they executed it well. Kudos.
  • 14 4
 Here is a good reason for electronics on your suspension- what if a small bluetooth sensor on the shock talked to an app on your phone? Not as big or complex as shockwiz, just enough to tell you your settings and other basic info.
  • 17 0
 Another improvement would be to list a starting point for most major bike brands and models on their website/app based on those bikes' leverage curves.
  • 2 1
 You need an app to look at a dial (or count) for you? You know your settings because you set them... How the hell would an "app" help? What's "other basic info"?
  • 2 0
 @rrolly: Cane Creek does have that. There are bunch of base tunes listed on their site, and a forum dedicated to riders sharing settings for bikes not in their list.
  • 1 0
 @just6979: They actually have an app guiding you through a setup process, don't they? Like "ride a trail with moderate drop offs, how does it feel" and depending on your feedback, it gives you some recommendations and you take it from there. Seems good enough. At the end of the day you should adjust the dials based on how you like your suspension to behave, not on what the phone thinks what the shock should be like. Some like poppy, others like planted. I think that should help well enough without dealing with electronics inside the shock. Electronics would be good for logging the ride. But then you'd indeed end up with something like Shockwiz. Considering all the AXS electronics SRAM is currently dealing with and as they already have Tirewiz equipped Zipp rims, I would actually have expected them to have integrated Shockwiz inside their suspension. Or at least offer the option.
  • 1 0
 As a CCDBAir owner with the app, yes its useful and allows you to track & log your settings, as well as a wizard to try to help you with your initial setup, but my BMC wasn't in their database and the tune the app recommended to me was lousy. I would do a click here and a click there, and lots of testing to arrive at the settings that I eventually liked, but I didn't update my app every single time I changed something, eventually you lose track of your exact settings. Then you lend your bike to a buddy for even a single ride and everything gets messed up.

I haven't thought this through all the way yet, but I feel like an ultra compact, coin sized electronic device on your rear shock to help you keep track of settings can grow into a useful (but optional) tool without going full blown shockwiz.
  • 3 0
 @hamncheez: As a shockwhiz owner, all I can say is 'recommended settings' and what you actually want are two different things.

I've adjusted my fork so many times using the shockwhiz and almost every time, I prefer how I had it prior to what the app was telling me (which is usually my liking to running about 5-8 less PSI than recommended.
When I do add the PSI, the fork feels a little harsher off the top and doesnt sit into it's travel enough for my liking.

Electronics can only get you so far. I guess though SuperBruni relies on the data and he can ride fast I've been told.
  • 1 0
 @Waldon83: Yes, I'm not saying I need "recommended settings", rather I'd like hard numbers to attach to a "feeling" or "ride quality". I ride a very rocky, fast descent, and the bike feels harsh. I could open the app at the bottom and instantly see what my settings are. I could then go do the section again with less high speed compression or something and see if it feels better. I know instantly what my settings are if it feels better. If I want to set it up for a manmade jump trail, I have that preset dialed already and the app can help me adjust the shock to those settings.

I realize you could probably already do with with the current cane creek app + a note app, but this seems cleaner.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: CC's app is just a fancy presentation of the recommendation chart and a bracketing sheet. It's just a convenient way to note down your settings and record how changes feel. It's just a digital facade on an analog process. A totally different ballgame to Shockwiz or whatever.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: Still don't see how it helps. Does it track every change? How does it know what settings you want to keep? Still going to have to indicate what settings are the keepers, so still possible to forget to update the app, just as it is possible to forget to update the settings written down in sharpie on ducktape under your seat.
  • 3 0
 @just6979: No, it doesn't track every change that occurs while you're riding, but it's also a free app, not a 329 dollar computer like shockwiz is. And to go back to your previous comment, while none of us are greg, jordi or loris, anyone who is remotely serious about bike set up, does any kind of racing, etc. can easily understand what each adjustment does and therefore will change setups quite often, especially in the southeast where the tamest of bike parks such as beech are fairly close to extreme parks like windrock.
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: I'd like to have something that keeps track of my changes automatically, but don't want to have the extra cost, weight or complexity to look after. To have your ride impressions/opinion of each setup recorded against each tune, your device would need you to write something down in an app or notepad. A bluetooth sensor would be able to log every change you make to your settings but not which ones you like- and why.

Because of this, and like others said above, you'd be better off making a note of your settings every time you make a change. I used the CC app but kept having problems with software updates. I use a phone spreadsheet app to log every change I make to my suspension along with what I think and what the tune works well for -jumps, tech, traction etc. It's free and you already have it with you when you ride.

It takes an extra minute but you'll quickly get a picture of what works and what doesn't for you. Also, you won't go in circles re-trying tunes you've don't like.
  • 1 0
 @ozhuck2flat: Boom, nailed it.
  • 15 1
 proud to live just 5 min down the road from them!
  • 43 17
 So you can go for a full rebuild every Monday! Cool
  • 6 0
 Proud to say I broke several ribs bombing down Kitsuma!
  • 2 6
flag h-beck83 (Sep 2, 2020 at 10:53) (Below Threshold)
 Nice name for the shock but I really think the trail is mediocre at best. Does have a couple of really fun sections though.
  • 3 0
 @h-beck83: Mediocre?! I just vomited a little. Quite possibly one of the best trails in WNC.
  • 3 1
 @ridesmoothbro: West North Chocolate ? Sounds delicious
  • 1 1
 @ridesmoothbro: much better trails in Brevard Pisgah or even Mills River Pisgah. To each his own.
  • 2 0
 @h-beck83: Mills River is pretty raw, lots of good tech.
  • 1 0
 @Waldon83: the trails are even more delicious
  • 1 0
 @MTBgoat1:

nope, no good riding in Mills River... keep driving down the road to Brevard.
  • 1 0
 @SketchyD: if you know where to look there’s some rad stuff
  • 1 0
 @MTBgoat1 @SketchyD I thought they should have named it DB Bear Branch but nobody took the idea.
  • 11 0
 Loving this! Have been running Cane Creek stuff for years with great success. Will be easy for Friends and Foe to mess with shock setting though. Good thing I got mine dialed and know my setting

/ -
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  • 5 0
 My setting is:
/ |
- \
  • 1 0
 Fat pricks!
  • 12 0
 will kitsuma go with kashima?
  • 8 0
 Kitshima it is.
  • 18 0
 When I first heard KITSUMA, I thought "WHAT!? that means FOX in Japanese"






actually kitsune is fox in japanese
  • 2 0
 a splash of magic Japanese dust males anything great
  • 1 0
 @taprider: well played CC, well played.
  • 9 0
 Kitsuma is definitely worthy of having a shock named after it. East Coast OG trail.
  • 3 0
 such a fun trail
  • 4 0
 Kitsumah is closed Nothing to see here Move along lookie loos
  • 3 0
 @gotohe11carolina: it’s so chewed up it might as well be closed.
  • 2 0
 @SangamonTaylor: I agree I was out there last month and holy mackeral that whole trail is a mess. Mostly because it was the only one open during Covid when they closed the parks so it got a ton more use.
  • 3 0
 First rode Heartbreak to Kitsuma in 1997. Can’t imagine what it would be like on modern bikes. Fond memories of complete flip OTB’s on those upper switchbacks.
  • 7 1
 Has 200x57mm disappeared? I was looking at some shocks earlier, touting with the idea of an upgrade, and there seems to be less and less of them around? It was probably the most popular size not so long ago?

Otherwise I like the look of this, having had a positive experience with a DBair previously. I take it home servicing is still a big no though?
  • 8 0
 Everybody goes metric now...
  • 31 0
 @Kele177: Except those forward thinking countries of Myanmar, Liberia and the U.S.A.
  • 1 0
 I'm looking atm for a used 200x57mm shock for my third bike, which doesn't get that much action. It's incredible how you can't find anything on offer ! It's either garbage which nobody wants, or 95% of the new price for an used piece of kit.
  • 1 0
 @dilberteng: You missed the boat of people dumping their non-metric shocks at very reasonable prices. I found the same thing when helping a friend try to upgrade the shock on a 2010 trek full suspension; he ended up buying a brand new one since there were no used ones to be had.
  • 1 0
 Surprisingly EXT is still offering their shocks in all the imperial sizes including 200x57.
  • 5 1
 @Dropthedebt: huh, you never think of Myanmar and Liberia having their shit together, but good to know
  • 3 0
 @xeren: You're not my Supervisor!
  • 1 0
 @dilberteng: That's because 200x57 is the worst case scenario of one of the main things that metric shocks improved: bushing overlap. That's a big stroke on a relatively short shock, so very little bushing overlap, so any side loading will inflict much more wear on the internals than a metric shock with equivalent stroke. So it makes sense that not many were made (it's a size that shouldn't exist to being with) and the ones that were made and used are beat up.
  • 9 1
 Nice product! Db coil is already really good. Now even more responsive should be amazing. I appreciate the hand dials as well. Working OT at CC
  • 8 0
 One day these will just be known as "Legendary engineer Jeff LaForge's first shock"
  • 4 0
 A couple of things I love about this. 1- I live close to, and ride a trail worthy of naming a world wide product after it. 2- the three levels of climbing adjustments correlate to the three ways to the top of this trail, up the trail, up the paved path, or up the gravel road. The map shows the path.
  • 7 3
 Can anyone give me a reason why I'd want to upgrade my 2012 CC DB?! It seems to work great and the actual damping tech they're using doesn't seem to have moved on much over the original shock?
  • 4 0
 Nope.
  • 3 0
 There's no reason
  • 7 0
 The climb switch is great if you ride in areas with long gravel or paved climbs. I also use it on long single track climbs too. But those old DBs are pretty bomb proof.
  • 7 7
 2012 DB who still working? Are you sh!ting me? It belong in a museum. So yes you need new one
  • 3 0
 I too have a soft spot for CC. When their stuff is working correctly, it is amazing and has a unique feel to it. Both CCDBIL and HELM I really transformed the bike. BUT they don't have the reliability of any fox of RS product I've owned. Also more expensive to service (but much faster service here in Canada)
  • 4 0
 It's time for a coil shock shootout. Haven't seen a comparison in years and there are now tons of options: Push, EXT, Fast, this new CC Kitsuma, DVO Jade, MRP Hazzard plus the big guys DHX2 and Superdeluxe.
  • 2 0
 Ohlins?
  • 1 0
 Formula
  • 6 0
 Nice work, cane creek. Looks great!
  • 6 0
 Shoot out with a Push and Cane Creek please and thank you.
  • 2 0
 Announcer: How would YOU like to be able to adjust your shock without the use of painful and dangerous TOOLS!?

Me: (severs finger with hex key trying to adjust Fox X2 shock)... awww man! Tell me more!

Ok.. so it looks like the intuitive and easy to tune aspect is solely related to the tool-free dials with lines on them. LOL.

Looks like a great shock, but that's kind of silly as the main marketing point.
  • 8 1
 I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that there are less clicks to make something happen and you at least have some reference in terms of where you are on the shock by looking at it. It's a pain in the ass to have to back an adjuster all the way out with an allen wrench and count a million clicks in to just get things set to middle settings. Combine that with the fact that you really do need to set your suspension tune on an actual trail instead of in your garage and I get it. I mean, let's face it, there are a lot of people out there that just need to go out to a section of trail, crank an adjuster one way, ride it and then crank the adjuster all the way the other way and ride it to really understand what these settings do. I think that's a big part of the intimidation factor with these shocks - people don't actually know what the settings do and it's a pain in the ass to try them one at a time on the trail.
  • 2 0
 @Draaz34:
Yeah, I see that but a couple of things

When I'm tuning on the trail I don't go all the way in and count clicks out... I add or subtract a click or 2 from the suspect adjuster and keep riding, judge if it's better or worse.. repeat cycle until I'm happy with the performance. Then I will count clicks/record settings back in the garage so I can revert back to a known good setup if needed. Seems the same would be true with the Kitsuma.

Having to do this with a tool does a couple of things for me. First, it makes me think twice about making adjustments and what/how I want to adjust because it's a process to get the tool out, etc. Second, once dialed my settings are secure and aren't going to get accidentally changed by bumping/crashing.

Having a visual on the setting I guess is cool, but I don't see the practical application. Does it really matter if your LSR is at 4:00 on the dial if it if working well?

Now what would have been cool to make this highly adjustable shock less intimidating is a software app that can take inputs (bike model, leverage ratio, rider weight, front sag, riding style, etc) and calculate a custom tune for you like Vorsprung Tractive Tune does with their software... then walks you through fine tuning kind of like the old CCDB app does.

That would have really set this new platform apart.
  • 2 0
 been riding double barrels for a while. great shocks. gotta say i prefer the key'd adjustment. less likely to get messed with by ppl, looks better. if you dont have an allen wrench to adjust your shock your probably a pretty basic B, the shock is not for fiddling with constantly, once you hone in on your settings it should just be a rare small adjustment based on different conditions for the day. double barrels are not prone to blowing up, especially compared to some of the other major players. they used to have some air seal problems but thats water under the bridge, and most manufactures have. CC handled it admerably taking care of customers. Cool to see improved bushing overlap. I blame poor access to adjustments on inconsiderate frame construction moreso than shock construction.
  • 2 0
 So let me just see if I understand what has actually been changed and please comment on anything I’ve missed:
Tool-free dials, different bumper shape, a fire road lockout mode, and some outer clearances rearrangements to fit more bikes. Am I correct in understanding it’s still relying on the woefully overrated poppet valve design for damping simply so people can twist away all they want?

If so, hard pass on this, the core of the design is suboptimal in that those poppets necessitate the need to play with the dials more so as not to feel over/underdamped in different types of terrain. It’s frustrating that they tout not needing internal adjustment as an advantage, when really being able to tune shim stacks to a given riders bike/weight/riding style is so so much more effective to improving a bike’s suspension performance. I get why from a production/marketing standpoint, but it sucks for the consumer.
  • 3 1
 Are you going to let shops service it? Cuz next time I have to pay $200 for my CCDB to get serviced, and ship it to NC, and wait who knows how long, I’m just going to get something else.
  • 3 2
 traillabs.com services Cane Creek suspension components!
  • 4 1
 canecreek.com/dealer-locator Looks like they have a bunch of service centers.
  • 1 0
 @mdschurtz: Lol, yeah, if you live in the Southeast.
  • 2 0
 @yerfdogtnarg: Going to try them. Thank you!
  • 3 0
 Will the coil fit a Tallboy 4? I know that's a bit backwards but I love my Tallboy and I love coil shocks! The DB IL coil fits, will the piggyback hit the frame?
  • 3 0
 Lets make this simple for the end user. What are the maximum amount of dials we can have per square inch of surface area?
IDK... how does 10 sounds?
  • 4 3
 If you’re looking for a shock that’s set up for you and your frame,riding style etc them buy an ext storia. It’s not much more in price but is so much better in performance. The cane creek or fox etc are great if it comes on the bike stock. But if you're buying off the shelf don’t be limited by a shock that’s designed for all frames and all weight rider. Ext or push,I prefer the ext personally but both are so much better purely for the fact it’s set up for you and only you. My storia only weighs 640g too.
  • 2 1
 Any damper can be re valved for weight & riding style?
  • 3 0
 @Muddslinger: twin tube style shocks are almost impossible to revalve completely even if you have a mill/lathe. On cane Creek models there is some valving on the main piston, but it has such a large impact on flow through the adjusters that changing it isn't a great strategy for custom tunes.

You need to make different rate poppet springs to actually change the high speed damping rate, it's not off the shelf shims like on a monotube shock. They're often a custom size/rate and to my knowledge cane Creek doesn't sell any. Fox addressed this issue with VVC.

For these reasons monotubes are much better for custom tunes
  • 1 0
 Not sure why this got down voted. Dude speaks the truth. This shock or a DHX2 with custom tuning is roughly the same price an EXT that comes with 2 springs as well and even after tuning the EXT or a Push shock for a bit more are still on a different planet of performance.
  • 2 0
 @mixmastamikal: it’s been down voted because 99% of mountain bikers don’t really understand how a shock works and the difference between shim stacks and popper valves. Twin tube poppet valves shocks are great to cover a wide range of rider but there will be sacrifices in performance compared to a mono tube using shim stacks set up for one rider and one frame. The difference in my ext compared to the cane creek db coil and x2 coil I’ve previously owned is huge.
  • 3 0
 @mikelee: It never ceases to amaze me how many people think spending an extra couple hundred dollars on a substantially better shock is over priced but hardly bat an eye at spending over 2k on a carbon wheel set.
  • 1 0
 @mixmastamikal: exactly,I’m not saying the main brands units are bad,they are very very good. But a custom tuned shock using a stack of shims will always be better than a poppet valve with one or two shims and a spring loading it. Even a shimmed Fox rc will out perform a Fox x2 or db coil as long as the tuner knows what they’re doing. Someone like avalanche for example.
  • 1 0
 Ok, so I've gotta ask, does using the 3 mode selector switch result in the automatic spinning of the compression and rebound knobs? That would be an awesome gimmicky feature. I'm going to guess that they probably do not spin on their own when you change the 3 position switch.
Also if a knob has two rotations of adjustment what's to tell you if your setting is in the first or second rotation? I think they have overstated the intuitiveness of that adjustment. I'll give them credit for the single rotation adjustment though.
All said though, this is definitely a sweet looking shock.
  • 1 0
 "DB Kitsuma improves on its predecessors in almost every way. It caters to all varieties of riding styles, body types, and bicycle frame designs without the need for any internal valving adjustments"

Wasn't that true of all the previous DB shocks (excepting the Quint or whatever made for OEM only)?
  • 1 0
 So you have an easily and highly adjustable damper over a broad range. Would it not be cool if you could simply change the spring from air to coil and back (or even adjust your travel) to match different riding conditions or frames?
  • 1 0
 There are so many different parts between Air & Coil. Not to mention different length parts between sizes. Neither of those would be ideal. And it would end up being heavier than necessary to do the air&coil thing. But good in concept I suppose.
  • 5 0
 Yes, please!
  • 5 2
 Do the dials spin like that all the time while riding? Is that like an auto set mode?
  • 1 0
 Imagine that, running a constantly changing, randomized setup!
  • 5 0
 I'm in love
  • 13 0
 Snap out of it. You're in shock.
  • 1 0
 @rrolly: now I'm heartbroken and need a rebound
  • 3 2
 I love the looks of this.. but I won't by CC DB anymore.. I prefer a simple shock setup.. might be my lack of understanding or skill, but this is way too many variables for me, and I keep messing it up .....
  • 6 0
 You prefer a "simple shock setup", meaning a setup that is made to fit a huge range of riders and bikes... a setup that may be wildly inappropriate for you. With this, you at least get a base tune to start with that matches your bike and chosen spring rate, and there is _nothing_ stopping you from never touching it again, and you'll likely still be better off than the nonadjustable shock.

Would you want less adjustments in your car's seat? Bolt it down in a place that fits some average tester, and be done. Sure, it'll work if you match the tester, but for everyone else, removing the "complexity" means the position will be quite less than ideal.
  • 1 1
 Its a shock, stuck in shock land or mechanical parts.

I do love my CCDB coil, would have a RS Coil over it if I could find one 2nd hand though.

When is someone going to bring telemetry and electronics valves into these that uses your GPS to know where you are on track and the weather to set your shock up as you ride... come on... dream big Smile
Something that can be removed to be old school mechanical.

I also wish my RS fork had more adjustments like my CCDB does as both my Lyrik and Boxxer are half a click too slow or fast on the rebound.

Also.... the tools to adjust at the races etc is great, as you know its much harder for someone to fiddle with your settings before a race run.
  • 3 0
 Why has no one ever made a cut down 3mm hex key with a thumb head on it before?
  • 5 1
 Katsumi meets kashima...
  • 1 0
 God damn it, I knew it was coming, I asked the distributors they swore it wasn't. Should have known, anyone want my brand new, dbair?
  • 2 0
 Sure, I'll take it off your hands. Unrideable now there's a new one out?
  • 2 1
 @spaceofades: isn't that what the industry has conditioned us for? Nothing but the newest or it just doesn't work.
  • 3 0
 Am I the only one that got anxiety seeing all those knobs turning?
  • 3 0
 Has the 100hr (lol) service interval been extended?
  • 1 0
 Increased by 10% like the price
  • 1 0
 Kitsuma is about the only trail in that area in which a hardtail would be welcome on. Probably not the best name for a rear shock. Haha!
  • 2 0
 FINALLY!!! I saw this at Cane Creek when i was there months ago! So stoked to get this
  • 3 0
 no 190 eye to eye Frown
  • 4 1
 Self serviceable? :-)
  • 1 0
 Great, more knobs for me to play with even though idek what to set my current shock to and it only has rebound/3 position.
  • 1 0
 The previous CCDB shocks seem to have all but disappeared from current bikes. What happened?
  • 4 0
 Coil shocks have been relatively sparse in general, as air shocks have dominated the OE market, and the DB Coil still looked much like the same . However the DB Air Inline reputation still kind of hangs over the Air IL (which isn't really deserved, the Air IL is a much more reliable shock than the original Inline despite looking basically the same), and due to the tiny clearance between reservoir and air can, the DB Air CS shocks couldn't be updated to fit a bigger negative chamber on them so the air springs felt very outdated compared to others on the market. Looks like this will make the DB Air CS a very real contender in the OE market again.
  • 2 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: Thanks for the insight
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: The harshness off the top of my old DB Air is def noticeable compared to modern Fox and RS shocks, and it always felt like it had a large soft spot around the middle third of the stroke. Have you ever done a comparison of spring curves on a dyno to see if there are significant differences between brands?
  • 2 4
 I understand what they were going for here, but now it's even easier to inadvertently twist a knob while transporting the bike, lifting it over something, on/off lift carrier, etc. Some sort of little spring loaded lock pin for each knob would have been a thoughtful detail, though I don't make shocks so maybe it's more complicated and expensive than I think. That aside, does any of this say "intuitive" to you? Just that GIF with all the knobs and the lever working at once makes my head spin. OK, maybe intuitive and simple in terms of how you turn the knobs, but the knobs, THE KNOBS!!!! Man, suspension is in dire need of a paradigm shift. Fox is trying with their electronic stuff, but it just has to become mainstream. Shock, absorb that bump! Shock: roger that.
  • 4 0
 I really doubt you'd turn the dials accidentally. They are pretty firm and require a good grab and twist.
  • 1 2
 I've spent so much time on hardtails that when riding my squishy bike any movement back there feels like cheating. I think it would take me a long time to doing a proper tune with all those knobs.
  • 1 0
 Im in SHOCK ! I need one now. The pricetag was an upercut to KO. What did i need again i forget ???
  • 1 0
 This is a great idea if you have any idea what you are doing. If I owned this shock, it would be a disaster.
  • 2 0
 New Capra looks goat! Well done CC! Will buy.
  • 1 0
 at least PB got the name kitsuma right. over on BIKE they're calling it katsuma.
  • 1 0
 Oddly I’ve read this press release on every bike site today.... maybe it’s easier to pick one site and stick with it
  • 1 0
 Finally another option for full 4 L/H settings coming from CC, plus the climb switch AND progressive coil
lets goo
  • 2 0
 Reckon this is on the menu if the new rig doesn't pedal as well as, hoped.
  • 1 3
 Why is PB censoring comments?

I only asked for one without a climb switch. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It would be lighter, less expensive, less prone to error or
Breaking. I know it’s all Enduro this and Down-Country that. It the FR/DHers need love too.
  • 5 1
 It's just below the threshold genius
  • 2 0
 The knobs look like the ones you get on the oven.
  • 1 1
 "The rebound range has also been shifted downward for more rebound damping" just when I thought we were past the over-damping nonsense.
  • 1 0
 Great, as if my 6 year old doesn't have enough suspension nobs on my bike to mess with when I'm not looking.
  • 1 1
 Terrible brand, they don't bring support, complicated maintenance, bad customer service and spencive as hell. I'll not recommend any product of them.
  • 1 0
 Will this fit on an evil calling?
  • 1 0
 Wish they had left it as the raw CNC'd look!!!!!
  • 1 0
 Great, the prices of the "old" model will drop.
  • 1 4
 How the shock with 5+ dials to control can be intuitive and simpe to ride to operate?

Shock with no pr 1 variable - are simple to operate;

That does not meat that cc are good or bad, however it does not look easy or intuitive

I’m just curious - how ofter people re-tune their shock? And why?
  • 4 1
 It's not about adjusting often, it's about getting it to match you, your bike, and your riding. A shock with less adjustments certainly takes less steps to set up, but unless you fit exactly into the small window the shock was designed for, you're not getting the best experience. Arguably, even if you do fit in that "average" windows, you're still not getting an ideal ride because that window may be artificially expanded to make the shock "fit" more situations. On the other hand, with adjustments, you end up with a shock that more closely matches you, your bike, and your riding. Yes, it takes a tiny bit more initial set up, but just because you have more dials doesn't mean you have to adjust them all the time. With just one dial (LSR), would someone be adjusting that all the time? No? Then why assume that more dials automatically means more adjusting?

That said, with more adjustments, it can be useful to make small tweaks for full-day situational changes. Example: going to the bike park? Add a couple clicks of HSC and HSR in both ends to handle big hits, and since you'll only be going downhill, a little more LSC in the fork to help handle brake dive, and/or a little less LSC or more LSR in back can keep your weight back and also keep the fork high.

But, again, it's not something that people are usually adjusting on the fly.
  • 2 1
 Only metric sizing options? Come on
  • 4 2
 You come on, into the future.

It's a brand new product, why would they put extra effort into supporting dimensions that just aren't used anymore on new bikes? if you need an imperial shock, there are plenty of options, including from CC, but the market for them is steadily shrinking, and obviously they didn't see enough of an ROI on designing an imperial sized version, since making a shock fit the old imperial sizes means there will likely be less bushing overlap, meaning a whole extra set of engineering problems.

Were you also complaining about frames not being available in imperial so you could use your old shock?
  • 1 0
 @just6979: is medium a metric or imperial dimension
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro: Hmm, I think for mass it's imperial, since a pound is less than a kilogram, making kg "large"; but for distance it's metric, since a kilometer is smaller than a mile.
  • 1 1
 Do they really think they invented the settings without button instead of tools ??
  • 3 2
 was ready to smash the buy button until i saw metric only. sigh...
  • 1 0
 can't speak for the shock but the trail is supa dope!
  • 1 0
 wheres the spring rate calculator?
  • 1 0
 Just bought a CCDBair... Dang.
  • 1 0
 I need this, my current shock only has one dial.
  • 1 0
 Seriously what is the $699.99 BS. Its $700.
  • 1 0
 Count the number of adjustments then be a dick about it Frown
  • 7 6
 Metric only. GTFO.
  • 1 0
 Katsuni anyone?
  • 1 0
 Definitely read it like that and figured 'well that's original marketing'
  • 1 0
 ..
  • 1 0
 *drool* i want the coil
  • 1 0
 Looks sweet to me
  • 1 0
 Customer service matters
  • 1 0
 Sometimes, less is more.
  • 1 3
 Interesting but my last experience with the CC Inline was a disaster! Will wait for a long term review...
  • 3 0
 Except this is not an Inline (or IL). The most common issues of the inline ones will just not be a factor here, since it's using a piggyback (IFP instead of the troublesome bladder) and metric sizes (more bushing overlap to keep things aligned and help prevent side loads from wearing seals and allowing stuff (air and/or oil) to move where it's not supposed to).
  • 1 1
 Metric sizes only. F
  • 4 7
 a shock for gun enthusiasts
  • 4 1
 Obama wants to take our shocks!
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