Press Release: Cascade ComponentsWe are excited to announce our most recent addition to our link lineup! Our new Santa Cruz 5010 link brings the alterations we have made to the kinematics of other Santa Cruz models to the 5010 with the addition of a new adjustment. The link employs a flip chip that, instead of creating minor geometry changes, alters travel by 10 mm. What this yields is a link that can be set to 130 or 140 mm of travel with the stock shock. These two settings correspond to 31% and 29% progression, respectively, compared to 24% with the stock link.
As a bonus, for those that are interested in Bronson-like travel numbers, increasing the shock stroke to 55 mm results in 140 or 150 mm of travel depending on flip chip setting. So there are options... lots of options. Each setting improves on bottom-out resistance and small bump sensitivity. Due to travel changes, how they feel in the mid-stroke range varies. The short travel (ST setting) has a hair less ramp than the long travel (LT) setting, but because the ramp occurs over a smaller amount of wheel travel, the mid-stroke brings more pop. The LT setting has even better bottom out and small bump than the ST setting, but because of the travel increase, the mid-stroke range has a little less pop. If you look at mid-stroke support as a percentage of travel used during something like a berm or g-out, both settings will use a similar percentage of travel, but with the LT setting this correlates to more wheel travel to get to that point.
The link is available in black, red, and silver
Specs and Details:• 140/130 mm of travel (LT/ST settings with stock shock)
• 150/140 mm of travel (LT/ST settings with 210x55 shock)
• Progression increased to 31/29% (LT/ST) compared to 24% with stock link
• +5 mm chainstay length
• Sealed Enduro MAX bearings
• CNC’d from 6061-T6 in the USA
• Colors: Black, silver, orange
• Cost:
$337 USD.
Whether you are looking for more boost at the jumps, softer landings, less chatter, or a bit of everything, this link has something for you.
Jumping bikes in the woods
For more information click
Product page.
/sarcasm
My G2 Process has a similar leverage curve to your Scout. I got all the same benefits. I probably didn't NEED the link, but I like my Process even more for all the improvements you described. Can't wait to throw on a Marzocchi CR w/a progressive coil now that I have kinematics that will work with a coil.
Was wondering if you guys had any “mistakes” you’d like to sell as desk art?
I have asked that as well. It’s a bit boutique. They may wait to see what the demand looks like. But fingers crossed
Will it fit?
I can’t speak for what it’s like on a shorter travel bike.
I wish they made it for the v3 5010 , I had to run so much pressure in the dpx2 that it was insanely harsh. Put an x2 on and it’s a bit better but the bottom out resistance isn’t the greatest
Tried 3 different sags, including stock 30%. Tried 3 different tire pressures as well including my stock 29 psi.
Multiple shock pressure settings, changed compression and rebound as well.
I even let the shock cool between some of the runs so heat soak wasn't a factor.
I just did not feel better or felt the added travel.
@chileconqueso - I had a Push 11-6 on my sentinel v1 before I got the link. Once I got it...I realized the Push was solving for problems that I felt the link itself solved. I swapped back to the stock DPX2 for a bit and realized I LOVED the ride with the stock air shock and the link. So I ended up selling my Push and just running an OEM take off X2 Performance Elite from a Sentinal v2 with the link. It was a nice middleway between the plushness of the push (definitely missing a bit with the DPX2 and link, not far off though) and the poppiness I was looking for. So...just one anecdote, but it's worth considering.
I am sure the results would be that nobody notice this kind of differences in the bike geometry, and most of us should keep these stupid 337$, and spend somewhere else
I think if you made various links that change the suspension is all different ways and let average people ride them blindly, many would have a very hard time pinpointing exactly what each link was actually changing.
I get you're suspicious of confirmation bias, but do some searching and you will find very few, if any negative reviews about their links across a wide range of bikes.
If I felt bamboozled by CC with their claims, I would have been all over these forums telling people not to waste their money, as would many others.
More supple off the top and no more harsh bottom outs. Solved all of my complaints about the stock leverage rate on that bike.
Was it worth $300something? I think so.
it's a practical solution to a problem that would otherwise be near impossible to remedy.
Which shock do you use?
cheers
The Cascade link allowed me to remove all but the GnarDog (I think that's what they call it) spacer and now I can set my sag to ~20% without bottoming out too often.
Again - I understand that it is a pricey bit and it's not an exciting, flashy upgrade, but it made a noticeable difference to the V3 Bronson. I would buy it again.
They have good self respect and self assessment. Incidentally a lot of those people live, ride and buy mtb in north America, so Cascade and Santa Cruz cater to them both.
Calling people heavier, more aggressive, misses the point most of the time. They are fat, they like to ride a bike with proper suspension. That's life, so what.
Beating around the bush doesn't help anyone.
I weigh 80kg at 1.8m so definitely not fat but was still hitting hard bottom outs while running proper sag and with bigger tokens. Putting on a cascade link kept ride quality good on small bump stuff and offered the bug ramp up to prevent hard bottom outs.
They are a part of these two entities:
dive-xtras.com
claroworks.com
Cascade has an idea of what they like and being that a lot of riders like to tinker with their bikes, a product like this makes sense. If I had a 5010, I'd probably look into it, if for no other reason than just to try it and see if I notice anything different..
Wow. The bike was more active and consistent all the way through the travel. Way less chatter from the short rear end and even less noticeable brake jack. Overall, a better investment than most shock upgrades, and the ability to push of it when its already deep in travel is crazy.
I think its hard to realize that frame companies have to make suspension linkages work for a very wide weitght and size range of riders. If you are already 300psi can pressure, then this link may not be for you. Kona made a link that would work for everyone, but it's not going to be ideal for everyone. This is an available option if you're seeking these changes.
Also, Kona specced tiny bearings at the trunnion mount that wear out far sooner than the rest of the bearing kit. The link allows you to run a larger bearing available in max compliment.
It's $350 on a bike I have been riding since end of 2017. Or less than an XX1 cassette which makes no difference. I repair loose $1000 titanium cranksets all the time that make zero impact on riding. This changes the bike for the better.
I'm 152lbs and running a 450lb coil with the CC link, it's worth it. Better pedaling, better traction, way more composed bottom out.
Do you like how it tracks over the rough stuff, better compared to the stock link?
I weigh about 200. Still haven’t ridden it with my coil because I’m amazed the silly inline deluxe shock feels so good. I’m running more spring rate with less damping, so the shock isn’t as restricted and just moves great.
I think part of the appeal are people trying to have their cake and eat it too—people trying to hope that they can retain short travel benefits, but add long travel as well. There’s always a compromise, and the manufacturers have spent far more money and time researching the kinematics of their bikes than this company has.
A new link is orders of magnitude cheaper than a whole new bike, so why not?
That said, is there such a thing as the 'correct' amount of progression? Cause it does seem like CC's position is that more is always better.
Please advise CC.
Aftermarket links don't have to exist. I'm glad to have that option in the marketplace of mtb goods. There are plenty of specific bikes and use cases that would justify (for some people) spending $300+ to try out a new linkage.
cascade announced a 33% price increase a while back. Thats a huuuge increase.
Before the price increase it was bordering on being over priced, now it just takes the piss.
Of course a company has to make a profit but mark up on these is just too high.
a sudden 33 percent increase is hard to justify
If it was selling well, I would imagine economy of scale would become a factor and price would reduce, not increase as they could reduce their cost per piece unit by having it manufactured cheaper and reducing margin of profit per unit due to volume.
lol these links are clearly a rip off. The high price suggest low volume and low volume suggests no one is buying them.
haha you donkey
This is the third bike I’ve converted for her, but the first one she started asking about going back.
Not to mention they aren't selling a million of these, so they can't lower the price and make up for it with units sold.
Also i think a lot people are convinced they need more 'progression' in their suspension when they really don't
These are confusing to me, because I can't see many of their links selling. It's obviously a super niche product, but the only people I can see benefiting from things like this are the 1% of riders who actually notice the difference in their suspension settings lol.
protip: drastically changing the kinemetics of the bike without changing the shock valving is going to be a bad time, Mkay!
-As soon as I saw that there was a Patrol link, I contacted them directly, they replied 9pmish that night (Jimmy, the guy who runs Cascade, also the lead engineer I believe)
-Asked about a Sentinel link, said it was in the works, weeks went by.
-Got an email saying link would be available, promptly bought, arrived quick, no additional duty
-I’ve been wrenching bikes for a long time, I’ve installed any number of aftermarket items (dangerboy, Blackspire, etc). The tolerances on this link are exceptional. The finish is like jewellery, and the difference it made was noticeable. It helped with what I was looking for, and provided some unforeseen added benefits (climbing traction and suppleness)
It’s not all perfect mind you, to me there is some added flex, or more commonly called nowadays “compliance”, but only really noticeable while climbing on janky baby head size rocky terrain. I’m sure its there while descending, but my style of riding its not noticeable.
Their after service was excellent, several emails back and forth regarding setup, and coil/air options, and with the Transition link, its a fully warrantable change to your bike.
Hats off to both companies for that!
Learn how to ride, follow Lee Bikes and others. It won't cost almost anything, it's transfareble to any bike, and you'll feel better at the end of a ride!
Now... if I could only get some "master your mtb skills pill....."
Reverse engineering a link by taking one someone has already designed and changing a few positions is an absolute engineering cake walk in comparison.
My qualifications to state that? I own a cnc shop and design / help to design parts.
Million dollar machine? Stop drinking the cool aid, most shops in the USA are just filled with Haas.
I spent a couple months going down the rabbit hole of designing/configuring one of these links myself before the Cascade link was available. I’d like to try my Sentinel as a mullet, and think there would be some tweaking to do at the links to make that happen. I’m not a suspension engineer, and would be looking for some help/direction in this area. I would also like to change the profile of my brake lever blades to something I had in the past (anyone remember Dangerboy levers?)
All the companies I spoke to were leery/priced the projects so high it wasn’t feasible to do.
Please contact me directly so we can go over my ideas.
Cheers,
Be good to one another out there!
One off machined parts of any complexity will always be very expensive though, it may take a day to programme a part, tear down of the machine setup to run for 30mins, I imagine that’s why the cascade stuff is so expensive as numbers will be pretty small for each type / run.
Well thats unfortunate.
Expensive for one-off machined parts you say,
And you’re too busy, which would even further raise the rates and costs.
So to do a one off part, without the engineering costs, intercultural property, risk associated, I’d be looking at possibly shop time for a day ($110/hr?), plus cost of materials, bearings, etc, so $1200-$1500?
I’m not sure how CAD directly relates to GBP but I would be over the moon, and a rather well off man if we ran our machines at £110/hr.
The reason quotes you may have received are so high is you want a one-off, no chance to recover lost time if something goes wrong over the whole production run and as I say potentially a machine tear down and re-tool to run for 30mins, unless setup for prototype work most shops will quote very high as they don’t really want the work.
Great response ‘where is your $60 link?’ - where did I suggest the link should be $60, or even that it should be cheaper?
As I said above, they likely make these in such low quantities the cost isn’t that far off - want 1000pcs though and yea, $60 may not be far off....
Our local trade bill out rate varies between $80-$120 hr, so I’d expect a shop running a CNC, for small batch items to be at least that.
Mechanics are close to that, with bike shops charging $60-100/hr.
What I referred to was running my machines at £110/hr, we don’t do that but we run our own product on fairly cheap (sub 150k) machines, we also run multiple machines with single operators for long runs without setups, we are happy with our hourly rate as a result - believe what you like but also understand just how many variables exist.
As for mechanics and other trade being close to that- yes I know, it’s a long standing grievance for many involved in the CNC industry in that it’s often undervalued compared to the investment required, I know some shops in the UK that run around £50/hr, I think Hope once said they were running a product around £40/hr - cheaper than getting your car serviced but again machine/ product dependent.