Video: Controls Sorted - Fundamental Cockpit Setup and a Burly Crash

Oct 24, 2014 at 8:56
by Dan Milner  


So who didn't listen in class? Who didn't bother to change anything on their bike after they bought it and are now wondering why their forearms cramp on descents, or their fingers are next to useless in amorous post-ride entanglements? Who wants to see a mental crash? In 2 minutes the pro-photographer-who-should-know-better dips into his 30+ years of mountain bike industry imbibed knowledge to give you the basics on how your bike controls should be set up. Yes, you think you know it all already, and if you do, whatever, the video is worth watching just for the crash of the year clip at start. And yes my Yeti 575 got away unscathed. Again.

tips on cockpit set up from the Trail Doctor


Author Info:
DanMilner avatar

Member since Feb 11, 2011
55 articles

77 Comments
  • 49 0
 sorted!
  • 6 11
flag Fuze911 (Oct 24, 2014 at 13:31) (Below Threshold)
 Scrolled down to say this. Wink
  • 2 6
flag chyu (Oct 24, 2014 at 17:36) (Below Threshold)
 dan milner got your cockpit sorted.
  • 39 8
 Personally I prefer, to have the brakes more horizontal. I need them most when I am standing, but standing far behind the saddle. And i don't want my wrists to bent over the handlebars doing so.
  • 5 2
 mee too
  • 29 5
 Why are you so far behind the saddle all the time?
  • 12 1
 Not all the time, but you're more likely rearward on the bike while braking hard. Even if you do ride elbows out over the bar as much as possible, you're likely to be further back and lower on your bike when scrubbing speed aggressively. Makes to sense to angle the levers for the position you'll be in when using them most.
  • 10 18
flag shr3d (Oct 24, 2014 at 11:05) (Below Threshold)
 You should change your riding position. I go only on steep drop offs far behind my saddle and normally your chin should be above the stem.
  • 11 2
 Ya'll should check out BetterRide for tips on riding position. That is a terrible riding position to be in even if scrubbing speed.
  • 7 0
 "Why are you so far behind the saddle all the time?" -not all the time. But when I need them the most. ..on extreme slopes, or in case of intensive braking, when I am behind the saddle.
  • 33 0
 Only truism of cockpit setup: someone out there thinks you're doing it wrong
  • 6 2
 above the bottom bracket ( your center of gravity and traction point ) relative to the slope angle is where you should be.
why is this so hard for people to understand??
  • 10 0
 Yep it's all to do with finding whats best, most comfortable and offers best control from your style of riding and positioning on the bike. The 'fundamental' episodes in this series are just that - a starting point for people to adjust their bike set up, learn some essentials etc. The main point is that riders do adjust their controls.
  • 1 0
 Having brake levers more vertical helps to grip bars firmer at a larger, better angle. I agree with @DanMilner, it is about comfort mainly and finger length too. There has to be a golden position between all the arguments, but I would like to add one more. Keeping my fingers on more horisontally mounted levers close to always, it helps me with feeling what is exactly happening with the rear of the bike. I am not using clipless pedals, so there are situations when I cannot feel it so much with by feet. Levers movement "pivoting" around bars makes my wrists rotate slightly to inform me, or even slightly control, by pushing levers down, the rear wheel vertical trajectory. However this seems true to all of you.
  • 2 0
 What this video says is coincidentally how I find my bikes most comfortable to ride(not for everyone). And it is always the first thing I change on a newbies bike and they allways say its better!
  • 5 1
 My tip with lever angle is to get into rider attack position resting against a wall. Grip the bar with all fingers (including braking fingers) and rotate your hand around the bar back and forth until you find the sweet spot where everything feels natural. Put your index finger out, and thats where your brake should be, so its inline with where your fingers fall naturally. Try it, its helped heaps of my riding pals.

The real crime is having the left and right levers at different angles.
  • 2 0
 @flamshmizer Your method seems so convincing to me that I will recheck the position of my levers even when I think I don't need to. That is how brilliant I find your words here. I agree with the crime definition too.
  • 1 0
 bonus points for using a trainer instead of a wall. but they would both work well.
  • 2 1
 The video is helpful. thanks
  • 2 0
 +1 for more horizontal brake lever placement.

Irrespective of my body position I ride with counter-rotated wrists ie my palms are behind the bars driving the bike through the rough.

When you apply the brakes in the rough/ steeps and your arms and wrists are "in line" or even rotated over the top of the bars, your wrists need to tackle all the braking forces and stalling forces from the rough.

Think about it: you counter rotate your feet through the pedals for the same benefits.

There's a great article about counter rotation in a very early IMB mag.
  • 2 0
 @twebeast I understand your logic, but my feet do not have thumbs, just five toes each. My wrists hurt if I counter rotate them and apply series of loads. So it is all very individual.
  • 22 1
 Main lesson learnt; Wear a full face helmet... Wink
  • 18 1
 Ha ha, wish I had, almost. That crash was on the last descent of a 3 day self-guided off road traverse of Gran Canaria, while shooting a story (and video here : www.pinkbike.com/news/ultimate-mtb-wheel-size-shootout-video-2014.html ). We did 5000m climbing and 5000m descent. it was about 28C so a full face would have been a little warm for that one on the up's.
  • 3 2
 are you saying you were hesitant on going full enduro? hehe
  • 8 1
 Sounds like that Bell removable face-guard would have come in handy.
  • 16 0
 I now have a removable face. Cheaper and easier.
  • 2 0
 Sorted!!! Ah ah
  • 14 0
 I don't know why it is so hard to get some people to do these things. I've been trying to get members of my family to make these adjustments forever.
  • 9 0
 Never thought about leaving the bolts with enough grace in them to where they don't snap off in a crash. Good tip.
  • 1 0
 Magura recommends this in the instructions as an old school moto trick.
  • 1 0
 Saved many a snapped lever for me on both moto and mtb. And yes I learnt it from moto.
  • 7 2
 There's a lot of personal preference when it comes to cockpit setup. I've found I like to have my brakes with less of an angle down, to prevent having to rotate my hands forward when your forced to be far over the back of the bike.
  • 12 19
flag action789 (Oct 24, 2014 at 9:55) (Below Threshold)
 agree, i like my brakes almost 90 degrees to the ground, because its the way i feel most comfortable.
  • 4 3
 Why the neg props? Its a funny joke
  • 4 0
 Considering I am sitting in the hospital pre-operation unit waiting to have surgery on my pinkie because my handlebar clipped a bridge post/railing I think this was pretty hilarious. My bars are 800mm wide and feel like a perfect fit Smile
  • 8 1
 Not everyone can pull off a fun tutorial like this, only Dan!
  • 6 1
 I don't quite like the lower your stem to get more power on the front wheel approach as lowering your stem affects many other things too that shouldnt be ignored.
  • 6 4
 can not agree more. Look at the amount of DH racers using stem spacers to raise their bars. (cockpit oh com on its not a fuggin plane!!)
  • 10 5
 Can't disagree more. Look at the amount of DH racers using direct mount stems to lower their bars.
  • 5 1
 @skierdud89 direct mounts simplify the bar/stem setup while affording more adjustability, enable true straight mounted handlebars, and is lighter than a traditional stem setup on a dual crown fork.

On flatter DH tracks you'll find people run less height and more bar height in steeper tracks. It's just another of the 50 ways to adjust setup according to different tracks.
  • 2 0
 Yep there's a lot more to bike set up than I can do in a 2 minute fundamentals video thats for sure. But its a start point to get people to look at making those adjustments and progress their riding. And not fall off so much.
  • 6 1
 @hairy1976 yep you got that one. Cockpit? Whats that about eh? I did want to make some smart arse comment about that daft use of the word cockpit in reference to a bike's front end in the video, but with a 2 minute timeslot, I couldn't fit it in. So instead I just used it -seeing as its now become an industry phrase. No doubt I'll start talking about "handlebar real-estate" (that's how much space there is for lever clamps etc), "chain management" (err, stopping your chain coming off) and "trail dominance" (thats just mountain biking to us) next! What a load of bollox isnt it.
  • 3 0
 most people are bringing their bars back up lately 20mm rise and 15-20mm of spacers Fabian Barel talks about this in an old bike check on vitalmtb..before his injury he was running 20mm of spacers with 30mm bars..with your bars higher you can weight the front better when you cant have your body over the front of the bike
  • 4 0
 Try it, bung spacers back in (oops too late if you cut your steerer down) or take them out. Just try a different set up. A few mm's can make a lot of difference. A big problem for a lot of riders is not having enough weight on their front tyres to push down for grip in corners. It's an alien feeling to do so for many, so anything that can help achieve this is a bonus. Fabien is the Yoda of bike set up, no discussion there (check out my how to episode with him: www.pinkbike.com/news/trail-ninja-fabien-barels-enduro-101-teaching-an-old-dog-new-tricks.html )
But to fully appreciate the way he advocates bike set up you need to engage with his more "aggressive" riding style. Put the two together and you're made, but for a lot of intermediate riders who might lack confidence or aggressive riding ability then my tips here are a good start. Its all about starting...:-)
  • 1 0
 I had just pulled out 5mm of spacers last night to test before I read your response...been swapping bar heights/spacers trying to get it dialed recently..but I used to be 100% bars low as possible all of the time..
  • 2 0
 I have been running my levers almost vertical for many years and I have always gotten shit for it. Thing about lever setup is it is almost entirely personal preference. I don't even have very long fingers but I like to have my levers quite far down. Very confidence-inspiring on the descents.
  • 1 0
 Bar height plays a huge role in front wheel traction. I've been blaming my front tyre for ages untill I got a low riser bar and moved two spacers on the top of the steerer tube. Add a wide bar that opens your arms more and gets you an even lower center of gravity... bliss!
  • 4 0
 I done told them fools exactly that.
  • 2 0
 24 years of mtb and never broke or bent a brake lever... Got that tip of leaving the brakes not to tight from my father of his dirt bikes!!! Sorted!!
  • 4 0
 You the man, Dan!
  • 2 0
 A man. Not the man.
  • 2 0
 infotainment. I'd like to hear a bit of theory about arm position relative to bar width.
  • 14 1
 It's easy... just subtract your IQ from 800mm and viola Bar Width! SORTED!
  • 3 0
 Love that.
  • 3 1
 Anyone know what gloves he's wearing?
  • 9 0
 grey ones
  • 5 0
 Giro DnD's. Brilliant gloves, even in a crash.
  • 1 0
 Cool, thanks Buddie.
  • 3 0
 that was....AMAZING
  • 3 0
 SAWTID!
  • 3 1
 He's had his cock down a few pits before
  • 3 3
 I find it hard to believe that there are people who need to see this. I have been 1 finger since V brakes and thought that this was common knowledge.
  • 1 0
 Main lesson learned, lay off the levers then you won't have a face like that.............sorted
  • 2 0
 Dan, are you sure those arent Trail Herpes on yer face?
  • 3 2
 So much gnar gnar in one video
  • 1 1
 I wear a full face helmet to avoid injuries like this, I guy with such knowledge youd think would wear one too?..
  • 4 0
 Good point kiter-jack, Check out my Trail Ninja series ( www.pinkbike.com/news/search/?q=trail+ninja ) and you'll see 98.756% of the riding I do is that nu-school enduro stuff, oh I mean all-mountain, err, XC, or whatever its called damnit, with a lot of uphill to get to each descent. I just hit 104 rides this year so far, counting over 40,000m of climbing (but more descent I'm happy to add.. I do have some lift-days) so full-face just doesn't cut it on most of my singletrack adventures, like that 3-dayer across Gran Canaria when I filmed that crash. But I do wear one when I do the vacuming at home. Just in case.
  • 1 0
 That is good for you how much riding you get done, you must be a pro to have the time and money to ride that much?..
Just my opinion, an open face is fine, if you know what your doing on a bike, you take your own risks.. I just feel that lots of novices looking for that "all mountain, Enduro experience" see good riders hucking "downhill" in lots of videos and monkey see monkey do.. At my local freeride park i see more and more guys who evidently dont have much skills rocking up on brand new "enduro" bikes with the in trend open face helmets.One of my friends knocked himself out and broke his collar bones on one of the Blue runs at this bikepark on a flat section at the start of the run, on a berm and he was wearing a full face that had to be replaced! I crashed on the same Blue run on a different section and believe if i wasnt wearing a helmet my jaw would have been smashed to pieces.
  • 3 4
 (Insert Smigel voice) Yesssssss.....yessssssss.....ssssssooorttted my preecciooooussss! Ssssssorted.
  • 4 4
 720-740mm for all mountain riding? Ah... no.
  • 9 1
 Good STARTING point - it's clearly up to the individual rider how wide they want to go (as Dan points out). If you're one of those nutty canuck lumberjack types who favour bars as broad as your average redwood, then more power to ya, but there's nothing wrong with more modest proportions - I use 730mm on my AM hardtail, and it works for me.
  • 7 0
 You got gorilla arms? Then 760-800 for youSmile
  • 2 0
 for the trails i ride any wider and your busting knuckles or getting wedged between trees , not fun at speed .
  • 10 0
 My Bronson has bars that are 690mm. Any wider and I can't blast down the local trails. Don't want to end up like this guy:

www.pinkbike.com/video/378087
  • 3 0
 Yeah it was only a couple of years back that 670mm and 690mm was considered pretty wide for 'all-mountain' now called enduro I believe). But riding styles are evolving, top tubes getting longer, stems shorter and bar width increasing. I say 720-740mm is a good start point, meaning if your bars are narrower consider going wider for more control, especially if you're now riding a bit faster than you used to. I ride 740 and they work for me how I ride. But I'm only 1.76m tall, 63Kg and I ride a lot of tightly spaced Alpine trees on skinny singletrack. Wider gives more leverage. Go as wide as works for you.
  • 1 0
 Moar of theez pleez...
  • 1 0
 wow, thats new.







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