Derailleur failure, and why it's time to evolve beyond them

Mar 31, 2021 at 4:09
by DC A  
Something tells me this chain line just isn t right...


or...







Game-changing horrific crash caused by outdated, ineffective, and defectively engineered technology


Luca Shaw's horrific crash at the recent Windrock downhill race should be a wakeup call for the mountain bike industry. His crash was caused by typical derailleur chain failure that we've seen happen quite often in downhill racing, and also on local trails for everyday riders.




✔ We still have heard no explanation from Shimano or Santa Cruz as to why their obvious equipment failure caused their sponsored athlete to horrifically crash and have a serious injury.

✔ What would have happened had Luca Shaw been paralyzed, which can easily happen in this type of crash❓

✔ Would they be taking it more seriously instead of just pretending their obviously flawed products weren't at fault❓


Archaic roots


Tullio Campagnolo invented the rear derailleur in 1949. It was a great invention for it's time, but I doubt Tullio ever imagined people would be racing down mountains on long travel full suspension bikes at high speeds, jumping huge jumps and dodging rocks, with essentially his same invention over 70 years later. But here we are in 2021, and the sport of mountain biking is still relying on rear derailleurs with that same basic technology for the most part.


Never used Campagnolo Gran Turismo Rear Derailleur


Why derailleurs don't work


The rear derailleur/chain system is unreliabile because it is exposed and can be easily bent or broken by rocks or crashes. It is also prone to get getting small sticks and grass or weeds stuck in it, which can affect the shifting accuracy. Large sticks can completely jam in it and cause instantaneous, catastrophic failure. The shifting generally isn't very reliable, especially when exposed to muddy conditions, and often has to be adjusted. After the flat tire, it's probably the biggest culprit for catastrophic ride-ending failure.

Luca's back- breaking crash, or others similar to it, would not have happened on a gearbox bike for the following reasons:

✔ A single speed chain is stronger than a derailleur chain, which is designed to flex and shift.

✔ There is no derailleur for the chain to get tangled up in and jam.

✔ There is no exposed rear derailleur to get damaged by rocks and other obstacles.

✔ The front sprocket isn't as large so the chain is much less likely to get hit when the suspension bottoms out, and is less likely to hit the ground or hit rocks, dramatically decreasing the chances of damaging the chain.

✔ Sticks or other obstacles are much less likely to get caught in the drivetrain, which can damage or rip off the rear derailleur or cause damage to the chain.

✔ The chain is tighter and not bouncing around as much, dramatically lessening the chance of damage or derailment.

✔ There is no risk of a bent or out of adjustment rear derailleur, causing the chain to shift off of the casette into the spokes, which can immediacy destroy the drivetrain and hanger and put the rider at immediate risk without warning.

✔ There is much less risk of the bike mis-shifting while pedaling, which can by itself cause your feet to come off the pedals, and/or cause the rider to lose balance and crash.


Aaron Gwin's most heroic win

Aaron Gwin may not have won a World Championship title, but he has done something even more heroic. Only Gwin has eluded the failures of the derailleur chain system and still succeeded despite its predictable failure, a heroic and incredibly rare feat where a mountain bike athlete overcame mountain bike engineers obviously failed shortcomings and came out victorious.






Most mountain bikers aren't that lucky. Just ask Luca Shaw or any of the several World Cup racers who break their chains or derailleurs every year. How many thousands of rides have been ended because of broken chains/ derailleurs nobody will never know, but it's safe to call the derailleur chain system a bane to the sports existence.


Nearly all experienced riders have experienced this type of failure or something similar to it, which is unacceptable:
Sram SX Derailleur plastic junk

Gearbox drivetrains are the solution

There are a few companies producing effective and reliable gearbox systems that work great. The single speed chain is extremely reliable compared to a geared chain, and the system is sealed from the elements. It's also obviously lacking exposure to rocks and other obstacles which can easily destroy our damage a vulnerable rear derailleur.


Zerode Taniwha review test. Photo by James Lissimore.


But most bike manufacturers are still sticking with derailleurs, because they are lighter and slightly more efficient. Some people are smart enough to remove their chain when they are riding at Whistler, when it isn't as necessary, or if their chain or derailleur breaks.

Vintage DH bikes

The Sramano problem

Anybody who had come to the obvious conclusion that gearboxes are superior is likely frustrated with the dominance of SRAM and Shimano in the mountain bike drivetrain market. These companies almost seem to exist for one reason: To stymie innovation, delay progress in gearbox innovation, and maintain the status quo.

Instead of progressing towards gearboxes. SRAM does wasteful things like buy out small companies(), is their name and then ditch them after they have ruined their reputation with poorly engineered and manufactured products. Or they redesign their Reverb dropper post for about the 27th time and still have an unreliable, failure prone product that hardly anybody wants anything to do with. Or they make a bigger, even uglier, cassette for their regressive derailleur chain system.

Shimano's regressive nature is obvious when you consider how long they continue to try to push front derailleurs onto
mountain bike consumers even after it was obvious that the consumers and test of the industry had given up on them. They have recently released a new 10 and 11 speed shifting group for riders who want more reliably shifting, essentially admiring that their previous efforts were not reliable.

The sport of mountain biking is ready for a change. What if Luca Shaw had been critically injured and had his career ended, or worse yet been put in a wheelchair for the rest of his life? It could have happened in that type of crash, so it's time for drivetrains to evolve.
This is also not the first time somebody has crashed because of rear derailleur failure, it happens more often than you might think.




Shimano is aware of the risk but has done nothing to address it

Shimano road bike di2 derailleurs actually have a protection mode to try to prevent crashes if they break, but like derailleurs themselves, it isn't very reliable, and they haven't bothered to use that technology in their mountain bike derailleurs.


www.google.com/amp/s/roadbikeaction.com/how-to-di2-crash-mode

injuries and liability

Derailleur manufacturers could potentially be held liable in a court and responsible for all damages if somebody is seriously injured because of the type of derailleur chain mechanical failure incident Luca Shaw suffered from. This isn't failed components we are discussing here as much as it is failed technology. It happens so frequently that the component manufacturers would have a hard time defending their products considering the abundance of evidence that highlights the frequent equipment failures of the derailleur chain system. Luca Shaw broke his vertebrae because of an outdated derailleur system, plain and simple. There is no getting around that fact, and a jury would likely side with somebody in the same situation after seeing and hearing all the evidence. There isn't much a qualified team mechanic can do wrong when installing a modern chain, and Luca did nothing wrong as a rider, and now he's been hospitalized, and his season and possibly life has probably been compromised. It could turn out to be one those injuries that bothers him for the rest of his life, as back injuries often do. All because of an outdated derailleur technology where the only real advantage over a much more reliable gearbox drivetrain is that it is slightly lighter and slightly more efficient.

This once again highlights how badly the mountain bike industry has failed its customers for decades by stubbornly sticking with the outdated derailleur system, instead of progressing towards gearbox technology. The weight savings isn't worth it anymore. Derailleurs are exposed, unreliable, and there is no excuse for this to be happening in the year 2021.


Roadie roots die hard

The mountain bike industry is completely weight-weenie controlled just like the road bike industry. The overall sentiment seems to be: "Oh, derailleurs aren't that bad, and I don't want to add a few more ounces to my bike, so let's stick with this outdated, ineffective, dangerous, unreliable, technology forever."

Meanwhile, America's fastest downhill racer was recently injured and is in recovery. Everybody just looks the other way, like nothing happened, nobody is at fault, and it's not really the industries fault. Because we must go with the lightest option, everybody seems to assume.

No, we don't. The industry needs to have more people who lead with integrity, and less people who obsess over saving small amounts of weight. The bikes would shift better, be more reliable, be safer, and the sport overall would be more enjoyable as a result. In tired of hearing my chain clicking between gears mid ride, missing shifts, or clunking between gears when I'm pedaling in rough terrain.

E bikes to the rescue

Luckily the emergence of e mountain bikes will likely be the final death bed for the rear derailleur. Ultra lightweight and maximum efficiency aren't as much of a concern on motor assisted e bikes, so the mountain bike industry will eventually come to their senses and start using them on e bikes. This should also assist in them becoming more widely accepted on traditional mountain bikes, no pin intended.


Katz maintenance free e bike gearbox:


Revonte ONE Drive motor gearbox automatic transmission system:

Revonte ONE Drive Unit



The sooner major manufacturers ditch the derailleur chain system for good, the quicker the technology will continue to advance and evolve, the weights will come down, and the efficiency will also improve. If looks were any factor, there is no doubt a bike looks better without a rear derailleur, and hopefully we will one day soon look back and laugh at the weak rear derailleurs and huge cassette currently in use.


Hideous looking GARBAGE bolted to a bike frame
Archaic, outdated, ineffective drivetrain that looks like utter technological garbage haphazardly attatched to a bicycle frame:
SRAM GX Eagle Expansion


Reliable Simplicity
Clean looking drivetrain of the future:
Zerode Taniwha review test. Photo by James Lissimore.


America's fastest DH race broke his back because of an outdated, idiotic, archaic derailleur chain system and we've still heard nothing from Shimano or his team explaining what happened, what the fault was, or what they will do to prevent this in the future.

The mainstream bicycle drivetrain industry is a hideous embarrassment to itself, when they can't give an explanation to their obvious failure that puts all mountain bikers at risk. These components are supposedly designed for extreme conditions. Luca's broken back and the lack of explanation from Shimano or his team, Santa Cruz, says otherwise.


128 Comments

  • 75 0
 Hard to believe that in 2021, there are still people who want to blame everything evil (and everything they perceive to be evil) on someone else and use a mountain bike website and forum to attack virtually every manufacturer that produces bicycles and/or components that support the very hobby the members here love and are passionate about!

Humans do not have an inalienable right to safety. We do, however, have brains that allow us to individually evaluate and decide how much risk we are willing to take in order to enjoy our lives.

You draw many false and illogical conclusions in your delusional little rant and zero actual statistics on how big of a problem this is (it's not).
  • 1 58
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Mar 31, 2021 at 9:04) (Below Threshold)
 @PACNW-MTB: It's a problem that injured America's top DH racer, which you obviously don't care about.

Humans don't have an inalienable right to safety in all situations, I agree. But when a company makes a product that they know has safety issues and somebody is injured, that person can sue the company for damages. Shimano knows its a safety issue, that's why they engineered the release in their di2 derailleur, as I mentioned in my article. Luca's bike didn't have that technology, so they are clearly liable for his injury.

Luca needs to file a legal claim against Shimano. Especially if he thinks he is going to have a long term injury, which is very likely with back injuries like these. This could likely affect not just his racing career in a very negative manner, but also his post-racing career and life in general later on in life. Back injuries can cause alot of long term pain.

Stop supporting the corporation over the rider that was clearly injured by them.
  • 1 36
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 14:00) (Below Threshold)
 #Justice4Luca
  • 7 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: so whats next are you gonna sue maxxis every time a tire blows off the rim and gets tangled causing and accident lmao you just sound like a typical sue happy guy that would rather try and make your money off someone else's back gtfoh!!!
  • 31 0
 So other than this wreck, which was bad, what data can you cite to support any of these claims you make? Do you have any studies, any aggregate data points to support any of this Billy Madison-esque rant?
  • 19 0
 Facts don't matter these days.
  • 1 38
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Mar 31, 2021 at 9:12) (Below Threshold)
 @Arepiscopo: The video, the witnesses, testimony from his qualified mechanic, and especially the fact that Shimano knows this is a safety issue because they have tried to address it in their di2 derailleurs. All of this evidence would be sufficient in a legal case against Shimano. This is a slam dunk legal case.

This could happen to anybody but it's more likely to happen to racers because of the high speeds and the trust they put into the bike. Especially in a high speed situation where the rider is coming down from a jump like he is, and the suspension is rebounding. The chain gets stuck somewhere in the derailleur/cassette interface and the rider crashes as a result. It's all pretty clear in both the videos I posted.
  • 27 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I’m ashamed I even gave this shit post a click. I feel like I’m reading something from r/10thdentist on Reddit with shitty hot takes. Buddy, I understand the point you’re making but you’re trying to turn an fundamental aspect of bikes on its head with one incident. I asked if you had any aggregate data points, any sort of studies, or mass data. And you have nada, zip, zilch, zero of anything above. Dial the rage back a few clicks chief.
  • 6 0
 @Arepiscopo: man, this guy is not ready to hear about this thing called "inherent risk". The judge is just going to laugh him out of the courtroom
  • 11 0
 @jlevandoski: Judge? This wouldn’t even make it out of a law office.
  • 14 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: you must have not heard about the kid who tried to sue Whistler because he got paralyzed when riding that park using the same ridiculous logic that you are showing here (www.pinkbike.com/news/injured-rider-unsuccessful-in-lawsuit-against-whistler-bike-park.html).

By all means, put forth your class action lawsuit - we're all gonna laugh at you for being this nuts. Yes, Luca's accident is something we all strive NOT to experience. But saying that Shimano (or SRAM) is at fault is just NOT the right thing to do. You have no evidence or facts to back up your claim. In this case, an opinion based on feeling is going to get you nowhere because you have no proof that there is a defect in the design. Furthermore, you make a statement how a derailleur just LOOKS bad - what does that have to do with any of this. With that, you're really just showing how little merit your argument has.

There is no Big Bad Corporation here and there is no justice. Hell, you haven't even heard back from Luca - I would love to hear what he would say about you getting justice on his behalf. While I love a good satirical article, get out of here if you're gonna keep posting this garbage. We come here for quality, not this crap.
  • 4 0
 @Arepiscopo: I can't argue with that logic, but I have a feeling this dude is gonna do whatever it takes to bring Shimano "to justice". Whatever the f**k that means...
  • 1 25
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Mar 31, 2021 at 20:43) (Below Threshold)
 @jlevandoski: That's right, I'm intending to put them permanently out of business for what they did to Luca. SRAM might be the only option in a couple years.

The CRUCIAL fact you are all ignoring is that Shimano knows this is a potential safety issue. That's why they engineered a safety release into the di2 derailleur:

www.google.com/amp/s/roadbikeaction.com/how-to-di2-crash-mode

But they haven't done it for their DH components, where safety is even more of a concern. Once a jury hears about this they are not going to be happy with Shimano. Shimano will likely realize this and try to settle out of court, but I'm taking them to the cleaners. Chapter 11. They should only be allowed to make fishing reels after they reorganize after bankruptcy. Don't blame me, Shimano brought this on themselves.
  • 7 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: What’s your skin in this game? You’re far too angry to just be a casual person who sees this and says, “I’m going to take out Shimano for this one accident.”
  • 1 19
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 6:29) (Below Threshold)
 @Arepiscopo: Justice for Luca and others injured by Shimano's negligence, and progress for the sport.
  • 4 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: What about the fact that Shimano designed Saint and Zee components with short cages to be tucked up into the lower chainstay out of the way of potential impacts? You are going to put Shimano out of business? You? A random guy versus an international corporation.

There is no negligence, there is no justice. You're wasting your time.
  • 6 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I don’t buy it. Something tells me you’ve got more in it than just emotion. Place a large bet on his success this year?
  • 1 14
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 20:02) (Below Threshold)
 @jlevandoski: The short cage didn't seem to help Luca much, did it? America's fastest DH race broke his back because of an outdated, idiotic, archaic derailleur chain system and we've still heard nothing from Shimano or his team explaining what happened, what the fault was, or what they will do to prevent this in the future. The mainstream bicycle drivetrain industry is a hideous embarrassment to itself, when they can't give an explanation to their obvious failure.
  • 2 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: because mountain biking is an extreme sport with too many factors to control - to narrow it down is nearly impossible. Rarely do we ever get a reason from ANY team for a component failure that may occur. Why aren't you focusing on all the other failures that could occur - cracked frames, bent rims, broken spokes? Why are you going for such a lucrative thing like a rear derailleur?
  • 3 0
 Billy Madison-sequel rant. Good lord that was funny.
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Shimano has the break away system, just like AXS has it, to save the servo from impact. So a simple crash doesn’t brick your $1k derailleur, which happened the very first time they took the prototype di2 derailleur out into the wild. Casual $100k lesson.

It’s also amazing how you feel some sort of guardianship over a grown as adult. Lol. I’m sure Luca wants to be a million miles away from you.
  • 1 4
 @bonfire: The breakaway system doest prevent the chain from breaking and getting tangled in something, which caused Luca's crash. Also doesn't prevent the weak derailleur from being hit by rocks or getting sticks in it cause and getting destroyed, cause it's so low to the ground and vulnerable. Just a terrible system for mountain biking, all you have to do is imagine a motorcycle with a derailleur on it, and realize how utterly stupid that would be, to realize how utterly stupid derailleurs are.
  • 1 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: bonfire has correctly pointed out that the di2 crash mode is not designed to prevent crashes. Therefore Shimano has not incriminated themselves as you claim. Now that you are aware your claim is incorrect, will you remove that section from you blog post?
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Equally I think a mountain bike would look pretty daft with a fuel tank or kickstart on it. They're completely different machines built for different things.
  • 3 0
 @Skandi: it’s pretty amazing how this guy has lost himself down the bike equivalent of Qanon. Thinks he’s uncovered a huge conspiracy, it’s gold.

Clearly hasn’t ridden a gearbox bike either, not aware of the drawbacks they pose. Not even aware they don’t use a different chain. Probably doesn’t even ride bikes, just is one of those guys who hangs around shops and races name dropping. Someone who knows everyone, but nobody knows him.
  • 30 0
 Are you unironically serious or am I to slow to get satire?
  • 3 32
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Mar 31, 2021 at 10:07) (Below Threshold)
 @mrmm8900: This is serious stuff, we need to band together like brothers and be united against Shimano to prevent these types of injuries in the future.
  • 9 0
 This is really borderline here, and I usually feel like I'm quick to pick up sarcasm. This would be an amazing troll too. I'm 50/50 on the seriousness here. If it's get more intense tomorrow that could be a good clue lol.
  • 2 11
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 20:06) (Below Threshold)
 @DylanH93: If you don't have a point to make about the subject at hand here, the archaic, outdated failed derailleur chain system, stfu. Enough with the desperate distractions.
  • 1 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: didn't mean to offend. I'm interested where this may go. But honestly I don't see how derailleurs are that bad of a system, sure they fail but other options are out there and consumers made the choice themselves. No one forced us to use them. Also with the Luca shaw thing, I could see him possibly suing, but it seems you wouldn't really have standing there. Unless you're trying to do a class action. Do you have any others in this potential class who've been injured? I don't see this going successfully unless more damning information comes out.
  • 1 5
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 3, 2021 at 7:10) (Below Threshold)
 @DylanH93: I've been advised not to share the details of the class action suit.

All you have to do is imagine a motorcycle with a derailleur on it, and realize how utterly stupid that would be, to realize how utterly stupid derailleurs are. They are forced on consumers to a certain extent. Most bike shops don't sell gearbox bikes and derailleurs unfortunately dominate the industry, with nearly every mainstream manufacturer using them.
  • 31 2
 This is why people need to wear helmets when biking...if you don't, you'll turn into this guy!
  • 15 0
 Literally just spit out my coffee all over my damn screen and now it's not working. I better sue HP for the design defect because they didn't make sure my monitor could withstand such an extreme environment. Watch out everyone, a lawsuit is coming!
  • 2 13
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 20:08) (Below Threshold)
 @jlevandoski: If my claims are so baseless then give me a actual explanation for what happened that made a broken chain cause America's fastest DH racer to break his back?
  • 20 0
 Sue, sue, sue. Why don't you sue Maxxis tires for not holding a bead once in a while. Better yet, let's sue the sky for raining and making the trails slippery. Actually, I'm gonna sue myself for wasting part of my afternoon reading this witch hunt BS that targets companies pushing out products which give myself and many others enjoyment. On a more serious note (not that the above wasn't serious), you have virtually no grounds for a lawsuit and are wasting your money and time. Components break. Components wear. Components can be improperly installed on a bike, dirt and grime can interfere with proper functioning, and your man-crush Luca Shaw also pushes the components of his bike to its limits. That's why shit breaks. Sure, there can be design flaws (I'm looking at you, SRAM), but in the end, you bought it. You accepted the terms and conditions. You have every right to buy a gearbox bike, or to make a new product that will gravitate more people towards gearbox bikes, or to preach about advantages of gearbox. But don't even think about pulling some shit like this...make companies change by advancing the industry. That's what a real mountain biker would do.
  • 2 23
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Mar 31, 2021 at 14:11) (Below Threshold)
 Where their is negligence there is the potential for justice. The upcoming lawsuit against Shimano will have solid evidence of negligence, especially the fact that Shimano knows about the risk and has done nothing to address it. Here's the law firm I'm considering to take on Shimano and their faulty derailleur chain system:

www.ebcyclinglaw.com/practice-areas/product-liability/
  • 6 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: lol. If most people are against your idea, it might be smart to take a step back and look at the ridiculousness of this 'case'. Your wallet will thank you.
  • 8 0
 @Rdann97: Most people? Try all the people. We don't have time for this clown
  • 1 7
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 20:09) (Below Threshold)
 @jlevandoski: No, what you don't have is an argument to dismiss all the valid points in my article. If you did you wouldn't be making desperate distractions.
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: you literally have NO valid points in your article - it's all fluff and baseless claims.
  • 2 10
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 2, 2021 at 9:36) (Below Threshold)
 @jlevandoski: It's full of valid points which nobody has even attempted to dispute. Check it out again I've added some more strong, indisputable points:

Luca's back- breaking crash, or others similar to it, would not have happened on a gearbox bike for the following reasons:

✔ A single speed chain is stronger than a derailleur chain, which is designed to flex and shift.

✔ There is no derailleur for the chain to get tangled up in and jam.

✔ There is no exposed rear derailleur to get damaged by rocks and other obstacles.

✔ The front sprocket isn't as large so the chain is much less likely to get hit when the suspension bottoms out, and is less likely to hit the ground or hit rocks, dramatically decreasing the chances of damaging the chain.

✔ Sticks or other obstacles are much less likely to get caught in the drivetrain, which can damage or rip off the rear derailleur or cause damage to the chain.

✔ The chain is tighter and not bouncing around as much, dramatically lessening the chance of damage or derailment.

✔ There is no risk of a bent or out of adjustment rear derailleur, causing the chain to shift off of the casette into the spokes, which can immediacy destroy the drivetrain and hanger and put the rider at immediate risk without warning.

✔ There is much less risk of the bike mis-shifting while pedaling, which can by itself cause your feet to come off the pedals, and/or cause the rider to lose balance and crash.
  • 17 0
 I never read any of your posts, I’m just here to remind you that you’re an absolute dolt with too much spare time, and that you waste your “life” spreading hate and utter shit on the Internet... we are laughing at you. Try actually contributing something to society, instead of.... whatever the f*ck this is.
  • 1 14
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 20:17) (Below Threshold)
 @TypicalCanadian: This is another one of your desperate distractions you resort to when you don't have any arguments for any of my valid points. You aren't as smart as the typical Canadian.
  • 5 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: it’s not a distraction to point out that you’re a pitiful little troll. It’s just a deduction based off of mountains of evidence that prove it to be so. Get help bud, you don’t have to live such a sour, sad existence.
  • 1 13
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 20:48) (Below Threshold)
 @TypicalCanadian: No, you are the one trolling here because you don't have any arguments or valid points to make so you are just here as a desperate distraction who is obviously not a smart as the typical Canadian.
  • 4 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: it’s ok bud, you can move forward from your life of nonstop online rage posting. Even the most hopeless cases can better themselves, we won’t give up on you.
  • 7 0
 @brianpark: OK, we've all had enough - get this dude outta here. This is absolutely the "Shady Shit" you say not to do under the Content Submission Guide.
  • 1 10
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 2, 2021 at 9:39) (Below Threshold)
 @jlevandoski: You haven't even made an effective argument and I've edited the blog and strengthened mine.

Luca's back- breaking crash, or others similar to it, would not have happened on a gearbox bike for the following reasons:

✔ A single speed chain is stronger than a derailleur chain, which is designed to flex and shift.

✔ There is no derailleur for the chain to get tangled up in and jam.

✔ There is no exposed rear derailleur to get damaged by rocks and other obstacles.

✔ The front sprocket isn't as large so the chain is much less likely to get hit when the suspension bottoms out, and is less likely to hit the ground or hit rocks, dramatically decreasing the chances of damaging the chain.

✔ Sticks or other obstacles are much less likely to get caught in the drivetrain, which can damage or rip off the rear derailleur or cause damage to the chain.

✔ The chain is tighter and not bouncing around as much, dramatically lessening the chance of damage or derailment.

✔ There is no risk of a bent or out of adjustment rear derailleur, causing the chain to shift off of the casette into the spokes, which can immediacy destroy the drivetrain and hanger and put the rider at immediate risk without warning. Here's why gearboxes are better:

✔ There is much less risk of the bike mis-shifting while pedaling, which can by itself cause your feet to come off the pedals, and/or cause the rider to lose balance and crash.
  • 11 0
 This suing is actually a thing I sometimes think to be part of the culture across the pond (I'm sorry for you other guys). This is ridiculous! I really hope Luca gets well asap, but I wouldn't ever say Shimano is responsible for the injury of a rider charging down steep tracks at ludicrous speeds. It's extreme sport with extreme demands on rider and equipment. I'm glad and Luca is lucky that he is not extremely injured.
  • 1 17
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Mar 31, 2021 at 14:13) (Below Threshold)
 The equipment should be able to withstand the demands of the activity, especially if the manufacturer has marketed it as such. Which Shimano clearly has with its downhill racing specific derailleur chain system.
  • 11 0
 Something broke riding in an extreme condition, what's your point?

Are you gonna start suing Ford because someone took their Raptor pickup truck to the Arctic and crashed it into an iceberg - "buT iTs An ExTREmE tRuCk!"?
  • 3 0
 @maybenotaprofile While this "article" is an obvious BS troll, I wouldn't be so quick to laugh at the American "suing culture" in general. If it wasn't for guys across the pond taking care of their consumer rights and holding corpos accountable, Fords would still explode on tiny impacts. And that's just one example. So thank you 'Murican brothers for defending safety and quality standards in consumer goods for all of us.
  • 7 0
 @bananowy: I don't disagree - there are moments where a company does need to be held accountable for a legitimate design flaw (looking at you Boeing). But there's a line and this guy is so far over it that he's on another planet. This guy would sue General Mills because he cut his mouth eating dry Cheerios
  • 4 0
 @jlevandoski: Yeah of course you're right, he's either a lunatic or a really invested troll Smile

I only referenced @maybenotaprofile's mention of the American litigation culture. A lot of those lawsuits are not frivolous when one looks into them. And then there's @DoubleCrownAddict with his wacky crusades Wink
  • 1 8
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 20:12) (Below Threshold)
 @jlevandoski: These components are supposedly designed for extreme conditions. Luca's broken back and the lack of explanation from Shimano or his team, Santa Cruz, says otherwise.
  • 2 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Have you considered the many, many hours of footage of riders racing their bikes down really extreme terrain with Shimano (or other brand) derailleurs and not having a problem? If I was contesting your case in court (although your case will of course never get there) I'd just put the Red Bull Bike channel on autoplay until your spurious set of claims about a freak accident was thrown out of court.

Downhill-specific derailleurs are designed for extreme conditions and they nearly all stand up to it just fine. My advice is to listen to the people around you and consider calling this a day before you get banned.
  • 16 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: show us on the doll where Shimano hurt you...
  • 1 18
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 6:30) (Below Threshold)
 Get lost sock puppet.
  • 4 0
 lol BBB there are plenty of times we're at odds but this one was good.
  • 2 8
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 2, 2021 at 9:38) (Below Threshold)
 @badbadleroybrown: It didn't hurt me, it broke Luca's back. Here's why a gearbox would be better:

Luca's back- breaking crash, or others similar to it, would not have happened on a gearbox bike for the following reasons:

✔ A single speed chain is stronger than a derailleur chain, which is designed to flex and shift.

✔ There is no derailleur for the chain to get tangled up in and jam.

✔ There is no exposed rear derailleur to get damaged by rocks and other obstacles.

✔ The front sprocket isn't as large so the chain is much less likely to get hit when the suspension bottoms out, and is less likely to hit the ground or hit rocks, dramatically decreasing the chances of damaging the chain.

✔ Sticks or other obstacles are much less likely to get caught in the drivetrain, which can damage or rip off the rear derailleur or cause damage to the chain.

✔ The chain is tighter and not bouncing around as much, dramatically lessening the chance of damage or derailment.

✔ There is no risk of a bent or out of adjustment rear derailleur, causing the chain to shift off of the casette into the spokes, which can immediacy destroy the drivetrain and hanger and put the rider at immediate risk without warning.

✔ There is much less risk of the bike mis-shifting while pedaling, which can by itself cause your feet to come off the pedals, and/or cause the rider to lose balance and crash.
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Luca runs a bash guard, so his exposure to having the chainring smashed is negligible (and would be close enough to a smaller chainring to not even care). Sticks can still get caught in a gearbox system since there is still a chain and these things called wheel spokes (clearly you've never heard of them). Shall I keep going?
  • 4 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: are you aware that gearbox bikes actually use the same chain?
  • 8 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: And you could be slammed dunked into the nearest mental institution as a basket case. Their is plenty of evidence that you are not of sound mind. I hope you wake up one day and decide to spew Love, Joy and positive Emotion.
  • 1 12
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 20:24) (Below Threshold)
 @rosemarywheel: Why are you wasting your time with obvious desperate distractions when it's clear that you don't have any valid arguments against the points I make in my article?
  • 8 0
 This is without a doubt, the single handedly most stupid thing ive ever read on this website. If derailleurs are so dangerous, youd think the professional athlete would have done due diligence and just ran a single speed on the DH bike. Seeing how he is so not at fault at all. This lawsuit is the dumbest thing i have ever heard and im embarassed to share the same sport with you dude. Have you ever ridden a gearbox on a bike that requires pedalling? obviously not. I hope you get raked over the coals in court for damages on this slap suit.
  • 5 0
 We're raking him over the coals here and now so come join the fun
  • 1 5
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 2, 2021 at 14:29) (Below Threshold)
 @jlevandoski: Since I've done a little editing and strengthened this post, I've been blowing all the pro- derailleur comments out of the water! Nobody has yet to even attempt to respond to these points:


✔ A single speed chain is stronger than a derailleur chain, which is designed to flex and shift.

✔ There is no derailleur for the chain to get tangled up in and jam.

✔ There is no exposed rear derailleur to get damaged by rocks and other obstacles.

✔ The front sprocket isn't as large so the chain is much less likely to get hit when the suspension bottoms out, and is less likely to hit the ground or hit rocks, dramatically decreasing the chances of damaging the chain.

✔ Sticks or other obstacles are much less likely to get caught in the drivetrain, which can damage or rip off the rear derailleur or cause damage to the chain.

✔ The chain is tighter and not bouncing around as much, dramatically lessening the chance of damage or derailment.

✔ There is no risk of a bent or out of adjustment rear derailleur, causing the chain to shift off of the casette into the spokes, which can immediacy destroy the drivetrain and hanger and put the rider at immediate risk without warning.

✔ There is much less risk of the bike mis-shifting while pedaling, which can by itself cause your feet to come off the pedals, and/or cause the rider to lose balance and crash.
  • 12 0
 April fools joke or ???
  • 2 0
 thats what i thought at first
  • 8 0
 Look at his section about YT bikes on his profile page...yikes
  • 9 0
 Nah... no joke, somebody just left the computer room unlocked in the nut house. lol
  • 4 0
 I'm sure pinkbike are stoked to be used as a means for trying to recruit people in a class action against presumably one of their larger clients
  • 1 14
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 6:32) (Below Threshold)
 @kindern: This is serious stuff. I want Justice for Luca and others injured by Shimano's negligence, and progress for the sport.

I will be dropping an April fools YT Nazi bike blog later today though.
  • 10 2
 OK PinkBike Gods, we need to have a chat about the crap you let people post on this site. Make this article (and this guy) go bye bye please. I'm all for satire and free speech and all that, but this is just...not necessary.
  • 1 13
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 20:14) (Below Threshold)
 @jlevandoski: This is the type of desperate distraction you resort to when you don't have any arguments for any of the valid points in my article.
  • 11 0
 Dude you are completely insane. Good luck.
  • 1 15
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 6:34) (Below Threshold)
 No, derailleurs on mountain bikes are insane. I'm forcing the issue to get rid of them faster and evolve the sport.
  • 3 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I'm really glad you're around. Around half past insane that is.
  • 1 7
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 2, 2021 at 9:40) (Below Threshold)
 @warmerdamj: Here's why derailleur chain drivetrains are insane gearboxes are better:

Luca's back- breaking crash, or others similar to it, would not have happened on a gearbox bike for the following reasons:

✔ A single speed chain is stronger than a derailleur chain, which is designed to flex and shift.

✔ There is no derailleur for the chain to get tangled up in and jam.

✔ There is no exposed rear derailleur to get damaged by rocks and other obstacles.

✔ The front sprocket isn't as large so the chain is much less likely to get hit when the suspension bottoms out, and is less likely to hit the ground or hit rocks, dramatically decreasing the chances of damaging the chain.

✔ Sticks or other obstacles are much less likely to get caught in the drivetrain, which can damage or rip off the rear derailleur or cause damage to the chain.

✔ The chain is tighter and not bouncing around as much, dramatically lessening the chance of damage or derailment.

✔ There is no risk of a bent or out of adjustment rear derailleur, causing the chain to shift off of the casette into the spokes, which can immediacy destroy the drivetrain and hanger and put the rider at immediate risk without warning.

✔ There is much less risk of the bike mis-shifting while pedaling, which can by itself cause your feet to come off the pedals, and/or cause the rider to lose balance and crash.
  • 2 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: All these risks of damage, sticks and especially your feet coming off the pedals on a mis shift just come down to you being a shitty rider and not paying attention. If you can't take note of your lines and keep your self on the bike through a mis-shift you're in the wrong sport. People crash and you aren't sticking up for anybody get over it.

✔You my friend, are a retard.
  • 2 0
 @warmerdamj: I am PRAYING to have Luca see this and just blow this clown's doors off.

"Hey Luca? Did you see? You got in a crash and a guy just put out a lawsuit against your drivetrain sponsor for you!"
"Some guy did WHAT?!"
  • 1 1
 @jlevandoski: His crash and the lack of an explanation for it, other than the complete failure of the derailleur chain system, provides crucial and very convincing evidence.
  • 10 0
 repeat after me:
un......"un"
stay......"stay"
bull......"bull"

unstable.....
  • 4 13
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 20:31) (Below Threshold)
 @adm750: repeat after me:

You
Have
No
Argument

Otherwise you wouldn't be bothering with desperate distractions that have nothing to do with the failed derailleur chain system.
  • 9 0
 yeah fuck derailleurs! Single speed is superior
  • 10 0
 bahaha I have 501% range, shifter go brrrr
  • 2 14
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 6:34) (Below Threshold)
 Thanks for your comment and support, very inspiring. I'll keep fighting the fight till every derailleur is dead.
  • 7 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I'm not quite so sure that he was agreeing with you...
  • 1 2
 @jlevandoski: Single speed is essentially what gearboxes are.
  • 11 1
 #BelowThresholdAddict
  • 6 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: cant you just get on with life and not rage against something while providing 1 feeble bit of evidence against them, one accident. Just move on.
  • 1 14
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Mar 31, 2021 at 14:14) (Below Threshold)
 Not until justice is served. How can you just dismiss Luca's serious injury like this and instead side with the big negligent corporation?
  • 7 0
 I regret to say I accidentally hit the upvote button instead of downvote somewhere up there... I really didn't mean it, DCA
  • 1 10
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 20:28) (Below Threshold)
 @rosemarywheel: : I don't look at the vote count, I analyze the argument. So far I haven't seen a good one that rebutts my valid points against Shimano and its ineffective, flawed derailleur chain system.
  • 4 0
 It's OK, the rest of us made sure to fix that accident with ALL the downvotes
  • 6 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: One oopsie and Shimano is evil? ONE OOPSIE!?!! If Luca himself felt the derailleur incident was worthy of suing or getting the engineers to re-engineer the design...then thjats his business and the rest of the sane world won't care much.

Instead of bashing what you hate (and you hate a lot) why not uplift what you love? I am kinda curious about gearbox's, they are a cool idea and no derailleurs needed. But no one is going to agree or respect you so long as you continue to try to force your ridiculously fanatical views on everyone else and condeming everyone and everything around you because peeps don't agree.

You want people to listen? you want change? do you want to matter? then put your excellent blogging skills to writing informative, positive, and entertaining articles about new and interesting patterns in the bike industry instead of finding fault. there's plenty of things that people will look down apon and despise for no good reason and you do not need to be one of them.

Beer Rosewheel
  • 1 4
 @rosemarywheel: all you have to do is imagine a motorcycle with a derailleur on it, and realize how utterly stupid that would be, to realize how utterly stupid derailleurs are. The best way to change things and force immediate progress is to hold the manufacturers liable for their engineering failures financially. Just like how Dominion Voting Systems is holding Fox News, Sydney Powell, and Rudy Giuliani accountable financially. The lawsuit will keep Fox from lying in the future.
  • 7 0
 I'm sure suing shimano will improve Luca's chances of retaining sponsors. Its good i read this on 4.1.
  • 1 8
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 1, 2021 at 20:30) (Below Threshold)
 I'm more concerned with progressing bicycle shifting technology to make the sport better and safer than helping somebody retain the sponsor of a company that caused him a serious injury.
  • 7 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Jesus guy, when you write an article that literally EVERYONE hates, that should be an indicator that you're not reading the crowd right. Nobody here agrees with you and I'm positive that anyone who has broken a chain and crashed would tell you to move on. Hell, every comment that you've made has been or will be downvoted past 'Below Threshold' because they're so f**king ridiculous. If you're so focused on trying to progress shifting technology, then why don't you sit your butt down in a chair and design a drivetrain that'll shut us up instead of trying to shut down Shimano.

Of course, we all know that's not gonna happen because you're too focused on finishing your application into an asylum. Ladies and gentlemen, I introduce the next Batman villain. The bane of rear derailleurs everywhere...
  • 1 10
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 2, 2021 at 9:41) (Below Threshold)
 @jlevandoski: I've strengthened my argument, and don't care about the downvotes. I care about why gearboxes are superior and safer:

Luca's back- breaking crash, or others similar to it, would not have happened on a gearbox bike for the following reasons:

✔ A single speed chain is stronger than a derailleur chain, which is designed to flex and shift.

✔ There is no derailleur for the chain to get tangled up in and jam.

✔ There is no exposed rear derailleur to get damaged by rocks and other obstacles.

✔ The front sprocket isn't as large so the chain is much less likely to get hit when the suspension bottoms out, and is less likely to hit the ground or hit rocks, dramatically decreasing the chances of damaging the chain.

✔ Sticks or other obstacles are much less likely to get caught in the drivetrain, which can damage or rip off the rear derailleur or cause damage to the chain.

✔ The chain is tighter and not bouncing around as much, dramatically lessening the chance of damage or derailment.

✔ There is no risk of a bent or out of adjustment rear derailleur, causing the chain to shift off of the casette into the spokes, which can immediacy destroy the drivetrain and hanger and put the rider at immediate risk without warning.

✔ There is much less risk of the bike mis-shifting while pedaling, which can by itself cause your feet to come off the pedals, and/or cause the rider to lose balance and crash.
  • 2 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: is your middle name "Superflous" by any chance.
  • 6 0
 I do agree, delareileures have to go!
I mean seriously who can spell the freaking word first try?
  • 7 0
 Looks like someone has a crush on Luca #DoubleCrownAddictLovesLuca Wink
  • 1 2
 No I'm married no thanks. Weird projection or just dumb post?
  • 2 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: your post is that dumb
  • 4 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict Let me dispute each one of your weak points then...

-derailleur chains are thinner due to the requirement to move through gears, otherwise, the cassette would have to be over 6 inches wide, and not work

-a chain won't tangle in a derailleur if it is installed right, unless the derailleur breaks...derailleurs can hang up in wheels if the low adjustment is not properly done...see your video above for example (that's his fault for not checking his bike over)

-brake rotors are exposed to get damaged by rocks as well...maybe we should use 60mm rotors instead

-front sprockets have gotten quite small, single speeds are a thing...if you ride like a psycho/pro you can get a bash guard to protect your chainring

-this happens, but you should consider that full suspension single speeds and gearbox bikes suffer the same flaw due to the requirement for a chain tensioner (see your above images)

-once again, unless the bike is a single speed, a chain tensioner is required, and behaves similarly to a derrailleur; also derailleurs have a clutch to reduce chain whip due to more chain than a singlespeed/gearbox bike

-this may happen, but it is a result of a crash, or improper maintenance, which is the fault of the rider or mechanic

-I honestly can't even argue your last point...have you ridden a 1x MTB made in the past 5-10 years that's not SRAM SX or Shimano Tourney?

Nice indisputable points...also Luca had a 'pretty small spinal fracture' which could be virtually unnoticeable. Not a big deal... "it should heal relatively fast and I’m hoping to be back on the bike in a couple weeks"

great argument
  • 3 1
 Plus Luca runs a bash guard (so the point about having his chainring hit is moot) and let’s not forget a stick to the spokes. Jesus this guy is a tool
  • 1 3
 -derailleur chains are thinner due to the requirement to move through gears, otherwise, the cassette would have to be over 6 inches wide, and not work

Pointing out that they are thinner compared to a stronger gearbox chain does not make for a convincing argument,
it only points out that derailleur chains are thinner and weaker.


-a chain won't tangle in a derailleur if it is installed right, unless the derailleur breaks...derailleurs can hang up in wheels if the low adjustment is not properly done...see your video above for example (that's his fault for not checking his bike over)


A derailleur can bend or break instantly from impact with a rock in a DH race and the chain gets tangled or is out of adjustment. It's not his fault, it's the fault of the weak derailleur chain system which failed on him.

-brake rotors are exposed to get damaged by rocks as well...maybe we should use 60mm rotors instead

They aren't as exposed as derailleurs, and unlike derailleurs vs gearboxes there is no way around them. You're really grasping at straws here.

-front sprockets have gotten quite small, single speeds are a thing...if you ride like a psycho/pro you can get a bash guard to protect your chainring

Single speed chains on gearboxes are a thing, and they are smaller than derailleur chain sprockets. Thanks for reinforcing my argument.

-this happens, but you should consider that full suspension single speeds and gearbox bikes suffer the same flaw due to the requirement for a chain tensioner (see your above images)

The chain tensioner isn't as exposed, the chain is stronger and not as likely to break. Comparing a minimalist tensioner to a totally low and exposed derailleur is a comparison where the tensioner comes out as a more technologically superior and more reliable idea every time.

-once again, unless the bike is a single speed, a chain tensioner is required, and behaves similarly to a derrailleur; also derailleurs have a clutch to reduce chain whip due to more chain than a singlespeed/gearbox bike.

Again, gearbox bike are essentially single speed and the tensioner isn't nearly as exposed or vulnerable as a derailleur.

-this may happen, but it is a result of a crash, or improper maintenance, which is the fault of the rider or mechanic

It happens all the time, and if the exposed derailleur is hot by a rock it can go out of adjustment without the rider knowing it, then he can crash because of it.



-I honestly can't even argue your last point...have you ridden a 1x MTB made in the past 5-10 years that's not SRAM SX or Shimano Tourney?

[You can't argue the point, and yes I have.

Nice indisputable points...also Luca had a 'pretty small spinal fracture' which could be virtually unnoticeable. Not a big deal... "it should heal relatively fast and I’m hoping to be back on the bike in a couple weeks"

His injury easilycould have been a big deal.

All you have to do is imagine a motorcycle with a derailleur on it, and realize how utterly stupid that would be, to realize how utterly stupid derailleurs are.

All of your counter-points were weak and easily destroyed.

  • 3 0
 Hey DCA, I want to remain civilized on this one. I'll start with this, it is neither the rider's or derailleur's fault, necessarily. For example, a rider may hit a derailleur on a rock causing it to fail, that would be the rider's fault to an extent. A derailleur may also unexpectedly fail due to a manufacturing defect, which would be the derailleur's fault. Nothing is perfect, which is why you cannot expect it to hold up perfectly. A great example would be Tesla. A ways back a Tesla plowed into an overturned truck. Despite it's fail-safes, it still crashed. You cannot expect all fail-safes to work. This goes for derailleurs as well, there will always be an inherent risk. Another reason not to go to gearboxes is the difficulty of service. Derailleurs are simple and quick to service, most people know how to service one. Gearboxes require more more effort and knowledge to service, which is more of a hunch. I am open to discussion, so if you want to act civilized, I'll happily debate! But, if you decide to pull some low-life shady move like you did with Rose, I will not tolerate it.
  • 3 0
 Stumbled across this and assumed it was a 4/1 joke but apparently it was posted earlier.

I actually don't think you're deliberately trolling, so serious question for you: do you know how a class action lawsuit works? Assuming you'll say yes, do you have an active claim? Are you representing Luca Shaw? Who are you representing and who is suing Shimano? You don't just casually whip up a class action suit pursuant to nothing; someone has damages and someone is suing in order to even begin to qualify.

Let's assume, for the sake of entertainment, there is someone who you represent bringing a suit to Shimano. Now who is the class consisting of? You've identified no one else and no data besides this one Luca Shaw incident to support any alleged negligence. Shimano has lots of data which I imagine indicates outright failure resulting from anything even approaching a design defect is so statistically insignificant you probably wouldn't know what the decimal place is called--there are likely tens if not hundreds of millions or even billions of Shimano derailleurs, cranks, and chains spinning every day throughout their entire useful life without any issue provably resulting from willful negligence of a design defect (well, actually all of them).

So what do you have? The court is not interested in anecdotes, baseless claims, or conspiracy theories. You have no damages. You have no case. No legal firm on earth would take this beyond lightening your wallet on consult fees.
  • 1 4
 I've been advised not to share details of the lawsuit at this point. But the same attorney said he was very impressed with my presentation and the abundance of evidence, and the way I am politely destroying all the rude and irrational responses in the comments. All you have to do is imagine a motorcycle with a derailleur on it, and realize how utterly stupid that would be, to realize how utterly stupid derailleurs are. The derailleur chain system is flimsy, unreliabile, and prone to failure which can put the rider at risk. Especially compared to a simple and much more reliably gearbox system.
  • 6 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: brohan, no attorney is wasting their valuable time reviewing irrelevant pb comments and being impressed by your arguments. You're making shit up and it's not fooling anyone.

You didn't answer the question: who is suing and who is the class comprised of? This isn't some thing you need to keep secret, it's not privileged information, it's literally the foundation of taking any legal action at all.
  • 1 3
 @HaggeredShins: Me destroying the poor arguments people present in these comments is actually a preview of what the jury will see: Shimano being destroyed and exposed for engineering and manufacturing a problematic, failure- prone product which they have known has had potential safety issues for years, and have done nothing to address them.
  • 1 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: jury? Class action pretty much never, ever, ever goes to trial and has the aim to settle; why would you expect different here? Binging too much SUV and Erin Brockovich?

You can skate around my questions forever, and that's fine, since it will be that long till you take Shimano to trial.
  • 3 0
 Innovation is what will improve safety. Why are MIPS helmets so popular? They increase safety and have no drawbacks (that I know of) outside of the cost and we're buying them up like candy. Give us a derailler alternative thats lighter, safer, and more efficient and the same will happen. Instead of starting a lawsuit start a research fund developing new products and we'd support you. So far the alternatives you gave are heavier and less efficient which is likely the real reason derraillers are still most popular, not corporate greed.

Until then, don't increase the liability for companies willing to invest in our inherently dangerous sport. Its a risky industry already and we don't want more companies and/or facilities being shut down due to fears of lawsuits.
  • 3 0
 I agree that we need to get rid of the rear derailleur and it's long overdue. But how about you just go and start the change yourself, get yourself a gearbox bike, show your peers how great it is and encourage putting money towards that rather than more dumb derailleurs? That's how you'll make at least a small actual change, not another dumb lawsuit. More suits and lawyers is the last thing this world needs. I do feel sorry for Luca, it sucks that happened but your "solution" makes absolutely zero sense.
  • 4 1
 Would love to hear your right up on how shoes should be completely changed just because some will fail at the extremes of their demands like happened to Zion Williamson.... Rolleyes
  • 1 8
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 2, 2021 at 9:52) (Below Threshold)
 He was also using shoes designed for a much lighter basketball player and is using more heavy duty shoes now. Sorta like how we should all be using gearboxes and not the weak and vulnerable derailleur chain drivetrain. Here's some of the advantages of gearboxes:

✔ A single speed chain is stronger than a derailleur chain, which is designed to flex and shift.

✔ There is no derailleur for the chain to get tangled up in and jam.

✔ There is no exposed rear derailleur to get damaged by rocks and other obstacles.

✔ The front sprocket isn't as large so the chain is much less likely to get hit when the suspension bottoms out, and is less likely to hit the ground or hit rocks, dramatically decreasing the chances of damaging the chain.

✔ Sticks or other obstacles are much less likely to get caught in the drivetrain, which can damage or rip off the rear derailleur or cause damage to the chain.

✔ The chain is tighter and not bouncing around as much, dramatically lessening the chance of damage or derailment.

✔ There is no risk of a bent or out of adjustment rear derailleur, causing the chain to shift off of the casette into the spokes, which can immediacy destroy the drivetrain and hanger and put the rider at immediate risk without warning.

✔ There is much less risk of the bike mis-shifting while pedaling, which can by itself cause your feet to come off the pedals, and/or cause the rider to lose balance and crash.
  • 2 0
 How many deaths or serious injuries happen in relation to the (one assumes) billions of hours that mechs have been used for?

How many motor racing teams will you be going after?

I wince to think about this, but how much money have you spent on this?
  • 5 0
 Man if this guy keeps on going and bringing up Luca he is going to end up being sued and getting a restraining order.
  • 4 0
 Well, he's currently banned for another 322 hours - I'm hoping it becomes indefinite
  • 2 0
 I will sue Walmart because i got a flat tire. How dare they not use tubeless! They clearly knew flat tires were a thing, because they sold spare tubes Next i will sue ford for not having self driving technology, because i am an utter tool. They clearly knew crashing was a problem, because they fitted airbags
  • 5 0
 thinking yo should knock this back 20%
  • 1 9
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Apr 3, 2021 at 7:43) (Below Threshold)
 I'm amping it up 120%
  • 1 0
 I disagree with a few points here. The main one being your mention of chains potentially skipping over the cassette and getting caught in the spokes potentially harming someone without notice. When does the chain skip off into the spokes? When you're in the biggest gear. When are you in your biggest gear? When you're going slowly. If someone crunched the numbers, I'd be willing to bet that the incidence of people getting injured from the chain getting caught in the spokes is less than 0.5%. The fundamental issue with your argument here is that you seem to have some kind of vendetta against Sram and Shimano. It's mountain biking, people are gonna injure themselves doing it. Nobody would take part in any sport in the world if they were scared of getting hurt. Luca is a downhill racer, you don't think he knows the risks of his profession? You think he's oblivious to the fact that he could literally die doing what he does? People crash all the time, and people get hurt way worse that Luca did. That doesn't necessarily mean it's Shimano's fault. Maybe it's the fault of the rider if he bashed his derailleur on something, maybe it's the fault of the mechanic who set the derailleur up, we'll never know.

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