People's Choice Award:The Final Round!

Apr 10, 2012 at 8:17
by Edge Factor  

People s Choice Award description picture

The FINAL Round of The People’s Choice Award is HERE! This Round will determine the WINNER of an $8000 custom built bike and Drift Camera!!! Click here to see the prize bike build!

Students designed a bike component, suspension or frame for the Reality Redesigned contest. While the Judges are analyzing the top 9 designs, YOU judge on the People's Choice Award! Vote below for the design that you think deserves to win the prize bike! The winner with the highest number of votes will at 11:59PM ET on Friday April 13 will take home the bike!

Voting is located at the bottom of the page.


People s Choice Award description picture

Click here to check out the specs of the All Mountain Gearbox Frame design!

People s Choice Award description picture

Click here to check out the specs of the Derailleur-Guide design!

People s Choice Award description picture

Click here to check out the specs of the Thomson to I-Beam Adapter design!

People s Choice Award description picture

Click here to check out the specs of the Footsie design!

People s Choice Award description picture

Click here to check out the specs of the DF-350 design!




Stay Tuned! On Tuesday April 17, the WINNER of the People's Choice Award will be announced! And in late April, The GAUNTLET launches!

Watch for The GAUNTLET
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195 Comments

  • + 150
 i would never rock a "footsie"
  • + 39
 same, and I seriously think that no one would, the guys who ride brakeless are too street to worry about there shoes getting abit of rub.
  • + 3
 I've been riding brakeless for a couple of months (on a far from flat town) and there's no way I would run that thing. I just sit down (lowers your CoG and stabilizes the bike) and drag my left foot on the ground to "brake". Surely that destroys the soles but it's much easier and safer than jamming my feet on any of the tires. Also at 6'1' I can not in any safe way stretch myself to reach the back tire with my foot.
  • + 54
 isn't the point of going brake less in the first place not to have a brake. if ur gona add the weight why not get some real brakes?
  • + 4
 I don't like the idea and agree that it defeats the point in being brakeless. I've been brakeless for over a year now and have never found the need for such an invention. If you're too scare of crashing or wearing your shoes out then go and take up micro scooters or something.
  • + 10
 pretty confident the main point for going brakeless is the whole cable snapping hose pulling from crashing doing bars and tailwhips this would solve that but still think theres no need for it as you wouldnt be able to adjust quick enough if you needed to brake sharply anyway
  • + 14
 kids would love the footsie
  • - 10
flag themountain (Apr 10, 2012 at 11:38) (Below Threshold)
 I wonder how that stupid idea made it in the finally round.
  • + 17
 As a product its great, so simple and probably mega cheap to produce. All you need is some slick branding and a lot of kids would buy them I reckon. Not sure if its really useful though!
  • + 43
 look from the bright side, works also as a spoiler
  • + 7
 Not to forget the wear in your tires!
  • + 7
 I think a name change is needed atleast, Footsie kinda sounds like a sock or something
  • + 21
 a good point is that it could help save you crown jewels on heavy landings :L
  • + 6
 Cut up a milk bottle. Gaffer tap it to your seat. Sorted?
  • + 2
 @wrc21, Im 6.7ft and i used to foot brake on my back tyre, at 6.1ft you should be fine! Actual brakes are the best way to go anyway, not a 'footsie', why spend the money on a footsie when you could get a new set of shoes or a real brake...
  • + 2
 You wouldn't have to put ur foot on it as you could probably slide back off the seat putting ur weight on the footsie and put ur feet down aswell for emergency braking.
  • + 2
 Yeah, dont see why youd have to use your foot, you could slide back and use your butt to press the lever rather than a foot. And also the issue with tyre wear, dont street riders use pretty much slick tyres anyway?
  • + 2
 And slick tyres are what? Indestructible?
I dont know, ive been riding brakeless for a long time, and i stop by stomping my foot in the ground, so my soles dont slide and arent destroyed. I would never brake on my tires and thus damage them.
  • - 1
 Can't see anyone wanting a footsie, brakeless bikes look so clean and i doubt anyone would want to ruin that and also it'd be so in the way when braking, but i would imagine peoples parents buying them cause they feel they'd be safer
  • + 18
 They should re-brand to "ball sack crunch protector"
  • + 8
 ^that makes it sound so much more useful!
  • + 2
 i think you should just use a vbrake on the rear with a cable to a lever welded to the bottom of the top tube, kinda like mccaul's shifter
  • + 7
 Wouldn't the footsie get stuck in the tyre tread since the wheel is spinning towards it thus destroying it. I guess it would work going backwards though.
  • + 3
 im kinda down for the footsie, maybe not to use but its a good idea, no break rub on rims, wont wear down your shoes and it would probably stop your shirts/hoodies from getting in your tire
  • + 6
 i applaud the guy for thinking outside the box
  • + 5
 All it would take are a few pros riding the 'footsie' and all you doubters would be using them. Just look at the skinny jeans for proof!
  • - 1
 i'm sure its good, but it looks funny
  • + 2
 Footsie....sounds like something from those latenight TV adds.... fart refector sounds better!
  • - 1
 The all mountain gearbox frame does it for me! Also, the Footsie is a good idea, it'll just make you the laughing stock of your riding group!
  • + 2
 you can skip all these problems about wearing out your shoes, not being able to stop in time or weather or not to buy that foot side product by just running brakes, seriously! is it really worth not having brakes on, and not being able to stop in time.
  • + 2
 ^^^^^finally a smart person!
  • + 1
 @shmoo will you are not 6ft 7 what are you on about????
  • + 39
 It's too bad the communication of what this contest was sucked, I'm sure more people would have participated if they had any clue what those crappy movies had to do with anything. Either way there's some cool ideas here.
  • + 7
 ya i didnt even know about this contest until it was too late to submit...bummer
  • + 13
 Jeremy Here. One of the challenges we faced was most people gloss over the details. We had links to the details page under every video post, and if you read the schedule page, it was all laid out. Sorry you missed out. We would have loved to have had in on it.
  • + 6
 no worries hopefully you guys do this again next year.
  • + 1
 I think if the contest were to be run again it should open to all people and you would have to build a "proof of concept" prototype. Or at least have different categories for models/sketches and functional prototypes...
  • + 2
 And have it INTERNATIONAL
  • + 13
 Some cool designs there! Congrats to everyone!
Looks like the DF-350 is the most popular design! This design shows that the creator has a lot of skills in CAD design, but all the bicycles companies claim that their bikes' characteristics are the bests for bumps absorption, cornering, pedal efficiency, braking efficiency, etc etc.
I understand the point of the designer: It is the only linkage so far that provides all of the three characteristics he mentioned, but still it is just another combination of different features like wheel path, chain growth, motion ratio, angles, etc. There is tons of other new combinations of these features anybody could make and claim that this is the best combination possible....

I see nothing new in there, as the contest was intended for new ideas. But still an impressive piece of work.
  • + 2
 Exactly what I said in the last round. I actually didn't like those big sniffy promises he threw out there at all, so I had to get some substantiated criticism off of my chest. Apart from that, it's an outstanding piece of work and from those designs up there pretty much the flashiest one. But still, I have to insist it's not the only linkage that provides all of those three characteristics, as discussed already. I was about to say the vote just has to go to the DF-350 nonetheless... but then I decided, that the derailleur guide really is taking an unjustified back seat as it is a fairly underestimated and not so eye-catching design, yet it's a very solid construction on a technically challenging matter.
  • + 1
 People have only really gone for it as its a bloody frame!

I personally like the gearbox design. Intergrated hubs are getting pretty common at the moment. I know its been done before but if it can be achieved at that size/design then great.
  • + 4
 I think the derailleur guide deserves to win, it seems the most practical. And out of all the people voting for the frame i bet that less then a tenth of them would actually buy it.
  • - 3
 I'm not impressed by the frame either. It's just another frame...

I'm torn between the derailleur guide and the gearbox.

The derailleur guide is probably a lot lighter and a lot simpler/versatile and it solves the exposed rear derailleur problem... but an effective gearbox would be sick. Not having to shift ever again could be nice (or not, like manual cars?).

I think I'll go with the derailleur guide as it's an original idea instead of a different take on something that already exists.
  • + 1
 I'm not saying I don't like the frame, i do i just think the derailleur guide is more practical.
  • - 1
 The DR-350 looks like a cross between a TR 450 and a Devinci Wilson
  • + 0
 there is nothing new about gearbox design, he just slapped a gearbox in a frame and applied polish. no mater how much lipstick you put on a pig, its still a PIG anyone who votes for that design is a complete idiot.
  • - 2
 I think you are wrong. The other gear boxes we have seen look big and heavy and mainly for dh. This looks like an everyman gearbox.
  • + 0
 awkward cause its a dh frame so i think the gearbx would be made for dh
  • + 1
 Awkward because you didnt read it properly.
  • + 11
 I agree, there were a bunch of strange videos with some guy who looked like he was high touring manufacturing plants. I thought it was neat, but it lacked a cohesive structure that linked the videos and the contest together.
  • + 11
 Hey Jeremy here - "I'm the guy who looked like he was high touring manufacturing plants" The prelim videos that were posted, simply documented who the Judge was and what their role is in the Reality Redesigned contest. There were links that gave the details. Based on the amount of countries and students who registered, those who read the details, got it. The nature of using blogs to give out info, does present a few problems and we could have done a better job. Live and learn i guess.
  • + 5
 When I look at the video section of PinkBike, I see almost 100,000 videos in total for freeride and downhill riding. This compares to just under 4500 videos for cross country riding. So this might, and I say might, be the reason the DH frame pulls the most votes each round. I too like DH and find it very exciting. I also like to ride other styles as many do. With the DH 350 I still only see a CAD design which can state it offers increased confidence to a rider, yet it has never been tested to my knowledge. So I am still sceptical as to wether it will do what it says on the tin. I can see that the AM gearbox or XC gearbox will not win this competition on votes, yet the rear deraileur is the biggest problem in MTB today. Thats just an opinion. Easily damaged, Jockey wheels wearing so quickly, due to their materials, small size making them have to rotate so fast and poor weather preventing them from working at their best. So I've voted for the gearbox again even though it has no chance to win. Again, the seat post adapter looks the most finished of the products, especially now I can see it on the bike for real, so well done there. A big well done to all contenders for working so hard as they continue to show developments to their ideas. Thanks to PinkBike for getting it all started. Maybe next time it can be a world wide competition.
  • + 3
 "I still only see a CAD design which can state it offers increased confidence to a rider, yet it has never been tested to my knowledge..."

You could say the same about the gearbox frame too, just substitute 'increased confidence to the rider' for 'strong, lightweight and aesthetically beautiful'...
  • + 3
 Very true dingus.Very true. What I mean is, I'm not sure about the claims made on the 350 DH frame giving confidence etc... as its only a CAD drawing at the moment and we know that top manufacturers design frames that they think will perform and are then slated by the media in comparison to others. I just see the deraileur as one of the biggest problems on my bike along with exposed suspension stantions when I fall off and the bike goes for a burton. I don't like the design of the gearbox frame or gearbox design that we see on these pages right now, but believe the deraileur gearing needs improving or changing for the future. Your not gonna find exposed gears on a motorbike or car for example. Thanks for the reply.
  • + 3
 Yeah, I agree. For those reasons I didn't vote for either of the frames as neither is really doing anything radically different to existing frame manufactures.
  • + 1
 WOW! WOW! WOW!!! Just been on the Nicolai website after looking down at dingus's comment and they do have a AM gearbox frame, the Nucleon AM and it runs the internals of the RRRRRRRohloff speeeeeeeed hub. Thanku dingus. YOU DA MAN! Full sus and 14 internal gears good for 100,000 miles plus. WHOOOHOOOO!
  • + 5
 The also have the Helius Pinnion AM, which is another gearbox bike with 18 speed. The only 'reality re-designed' design here is the derailleur guide. As such, I will be voting for that, because quite simply it best fits the competition the best.
  • + 2
 Now that ive seen the gearbox bikes people have mentioned on here, i have changed my vote to that too. Its good this pink bike stuff. You learn as you go along. Smile
  • + 1
 Have you seen how heavy those Nicolai gearbox frames are? OMG the Nucleon discription says 6kg plus and thats without the shock.
  • + 1
 One word: ZERODE
  • + 2
 The things I'd do to try a zerode...
  • - 1
 The song "Jizz in my pants" is not an adequate comparison to the feeling of riding a Zerode Razz
  • + 4
 Sorry, guys, but now believe this is rigged or an easy cheat for All Mountain Gear Box Frame which was never really in the top 2 and suddenly in the last round is ahead of the DF-350 which has been number one since day one. Sucks. You better get off your ass and vote for the real deal.......... yeah, I don't hang out here much, but I know a fix when I see one............
  • - 1
 It was number 1 until the other designs were cut and then people started going for the gearbox. In what way do you think it's fixed?
  • + 3
 I can appreciate the fact of exceptional networking. If you have a lot of facebook friends etc., but....... there would be a drastic increase of votes fairly quickly. Not in this case. The voting for the gearbox was continuously increasing at a constant rate over the final 36 hours on the contest. It would conveniently stop all of a sudden in the evening. And also conveniently stopped an hour or two before the end of the contest, once a comfortable lead was established. I hope whoever running this contest looks into the voting process. This prize needs to go to the "people's choice",
  • + 1
 Hey Guys, We saw the jump in the numbers too. Before we post the winner we have asked PB to look into it. The mechanism is used by Pinkbike for other contests too, so we assume that this is secure. - Jeremy
  • + 2
 @ EdgeFactor, any news on this front, i totally agree with Twillie and brichunky and was wondering if PB found any issues with the votes
  • + 0
 So does telling people on facebook to vote for a design constitute cheating?
  • + 2
 You're missing the point here Chainsaw. It's the way the votes were coming in that makes the red flag go up. Again, if you post something on Facebook there will be a large increase in votes......that's it. But, the votes came in for the All Mountain Gearbox so consistently over a long period of time. It is possible for one person to be sitting at there computer with an IP changer or some other fix they may have to be continuously voting for one person..... that's cheating. I just want to be sure PB is checking into it.
  • + 2
 OK. The results in. Video posted tomorrow. Congrats to the winner. - Jeremy
  • + 2
 sweet! thanks for looking into this and keeping things on the up and up
  • + 5
 The only ones that look like actual finished products are the DF-350 and the I Beam adaptor, and the guy who designed the adapter seems to have an Intense Tracer already, so it would kind of be a waste if he won another Wink
  • + 1
 The only design that is a finished product is the I-Beam adaptor. The DF-350 is a CAD design right now. Sorry to sound perdantic.
  • + 1
 Hence why I voted for it Wink However the DF-350 frame does look very well modelled and looks like you could pretty much give the plans to a frame builder as they are and they would be able to put one together without having to change anything drastically.
  • + 1
 Do you ride I-beam dingus dude? I find them well tough on the arse cheeks. Big Grin
  • + 1
 No, never tried them.
  • + 1
 The frame builder would likely laugh in your face if you tried to get him to build the DF-350 frame. The manufacturability of something like that is ridiculously difficult. Good luck forming the top tube without spending BIG $$$ on proper tooling. And that is a LOT of machining around the BB area and for all of the links. I think it looks kinda cool and it is well modeled, but good luck trying to build that beast.
  • + 7
 The I beam adapter and Derailer guide are definitely the best components, but the DF-350 is so coool...
  • + 3
 The only thing here I see that's actually innovative is the derailleur guide. The gearbox frame is not new at all and the footsie is a gimmick, with that you can't do certain tricks and it looks horrible. The derailleur guide is the only thing I see that actually goes along with the whole idea to this contest which is to solve a common problem that people have by inventing something innovative.
  • + 3
 I'm voting for the gearbox bike. Simple reason that I feel it's something that is pushing the industry forward. The DF350 looks awesome, but its just a DH RIG. The ZERODE DH bike is immense and i personally think Gearboxes are the way forward. Looking at what is generally considered a major weak point on a bike ie: yer rear mech, the gear box is something that removes the inherent flaws in the rear mech, as well as improving unstrung weight and longevity. Great idea. Gets my vote.
  • + 3
 the gear box is a great idea especially for downhill, at races you see loads of peoples chains comin off (even with a chain guide) because of the deralier bounceing around the place.
  • + 12
 but there are already frames with gearboxes to buy... DH, AM and XC frames..
  • + 3
 And the one in the comp wouldn't actually work...
  • - 3
 dosent stop it being a good idea
  • + 3
 Meh, imo it doesn't deserve to win this comp as it isn't as innovative or original as some of the others, or as well finished. It's a great idea, but it's already been done by others.
  • + 6
 Yes a good idea that already has been perfected down under by our NZ bros. You northlings will catch up one day.

www.zerode.co.nz
  • + 5
 Nicolai have been selling gearbox bikes for ages, longer than Zerode have.

Although the first gear box bike I saw at a race was a Lahar, so I'll give you that Wink
  • + 1
 I wouldnt ride that gearbox frame...thats it.
  • + 2
 Can I find out who makes AM/XC gearbox frames as I wanna look at one. Did'nt know anyone made them. Just been to the Zerode website to catch up with Husky360, but they just do DH gearbox frames. Any other Ideas where I can check for them please. WOW! WOW! WOW!!! Hold that thought. Just been on the Nicolai website after looking up at dingus's comment and they do have a AM gearbox frame, the Nucleon AM and it runs the internals of the RRRRRRRohloff speeeeeeeed hub. Thanku dingus. YOU DA MAN! Full sus and 14 internal gears good for 100,000 miles plus. WHOOOHOOOO!
  • + 4
 pinion.eu

allmountain gearbox, 18 gears, some small framebuilders already started to use them (nicolai for example: www.nicolai.net/159-0-Helius+Pinion+AM.html)

so i don't see the "woohoo" here....

edit: oh and alutech as well: fstatic1.mtb-news.de/img/photos/1/_/large/IMG_4126.jpg forgot about that...
  • + 2
 Thanks for the info manuesi, thats just great. i'll have a look Smile Sorry for not knowing as much as you do and getting excited about the Rohloff components. I do run one so know how good they are. I will use your info to research wether or not these design are as good and durable as the Rohloff internals. The pinion looks to have a deraileur hanger, but I might be wrong. Thanks again for the info. Now is sure time for a WOOHOO! Big Grin
  • + 1
 www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYeWp6kn9ns

Not sure if its in production yet.
  • + 1
 No, No, Not for the deraileur. it'll be for the chain tensioner as the rear suspension on the Helius pinion needs chain growth.
  • + 1
 Husky360. Nah! it's not in production yet. Frown
  • + 1
 actually i wrote "so i don't see the "woohoo" here...." without reading your comment (was posted just a few secs before mine), it was meant about the gearbox frame in this competition. so nothing against you being excited about rohloff internals Wink

there are only prototypes so far, but alutech will start sending out they're first "enduro fanes pinion" late spring/early summer. they were quickly sold out actually... hopefully next year there will be more bikes with that, really looking forward to that development.
and the chain tensioner at the alutech looks a bit better/cleaner. somewhere i read about the original chain tensioner looking something like that in the end, but so far that is an alutech prototype.
  • + 2
 All Mountain Gearbox...... been done before, not polished Footsie.........read the comments, not going to be popular Seatpost adapter........very limited market, bigdeal with the prototype Derailleur guide....... possibly, but new products coming out DF-350....it is a new concept linkage system, the video shows great flow and description, for a design contest this is definitely at the top. DF-350 has my vote!!
  • + 2
 Im personally tired of derailleurs and I would love to a bike with a proper durable internal gearbox. Although the bike at the top is a nice design the mechanics's wouldn't work out. As some one pointed out, the way the front chain-ring is setup it would end being just like a single-speed and the internals of the gearbox look just a bunch of gears randomly thrown together. Its a nice design job but it needs some proper engineering to make it work.
  • + 2
 Have no clue where this contest came from. Reading some posts I'm not the only one. My question though is who retains the intellectual property rights to these designs once the contest is over?

Do all submissions become property of whoever is running this contest?
  • + 1
 Hey crohnsy, This contest started back in the fall already, it's been going for a while. This is the People's Choice section of it and in a couple weeks the judging videos start coming out for the Top 9. To answer your questions, the designs and the intellectual property of all submissions stay with the person who submitted the design. It is up to them if they want to pursue developing their ideas further and to possibly work with the companies that Edge Factor is bringing them in contact with. Pretty sure all questions can find their answers at: edgefactor.com/realityredesigned
  • + 1
 Hey wingman200, there are reasons those aspects were over looked. The contest asked for a new and innovative in the mountain bike industry, so I came up with a suspension platform that allowed certain suspension characteristics to be brought together that have not in the best been achieved (to my best knowledge anyways). It was my full intentions to have full bearings specs, material list, and more structurally sound rear triangle created for this contest, however there was a deadline, and between school, the gym, and work, not everything was possible to get done before the deadline of the contest.
In my 23 minute video I submitted for the judges I go over just about all the details over looked in my submission and explain my plans for them.

Also besides time constraints I was not fully satisfied with the geometry and characteristics of the suspension so was trying dial that in maybe a bit to much for the contest and ran out of time for the details.

One huge detail which will change is the way the connecting rode mounts to the chainstays and the seatstays.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

Oh and on a side note, it is always best to use off the shelf product where ever possible without compromising the product and for that reason I hope to use some standard sealed bearing with minimal mountain hard wear as ion my experience any sort of dust cap over top of a sealed bearing tend to force the dirt into the bearing rather than keep it out... this would however lead to tighter tolerances though, so we will see.

Cheers

Dan
  • + 1
 heres how i see it, the gear box has been done before... way to copy people...
the Derailleur-Guide is a good idea but there are options out there that allow you to run 2 gears up front with a beefy bash guard and never have your chain fall off, Truvativ had something at one point for $40 that worked great, I ran it for a few months until I went singe speed cause i never used gears. not to mention you can keep any derailleur of your choice.
thomas to ibeam adapter... really another seat design to complicate bikes, if weight is that big of a deal ditch the seats all together...
the footsie i see alot of hate for this... i agree the name is pretty gay to offence to any, but... i can see it being a good product, it does need some tweaks like the mount, but it has a good idea it doesn't look that bad and you can still stop with out brakes. yes theres tire wear issue but brakes do that when you skid and fish tailing to lose speed does the same.
the df 350 frame design its hard to say yes but by the looks it could be a really good design. my vote goes to the badly named footsie
  • + 1
 just my two cents as an engineering student and shop rat. Without seeing any of the design process for either frames it's hard to judge whether or not they're good products.

Gearboxes have been tried, tested and in production for quite a while. This one is simply a black box without calculated gear ratios or materials let alone the actual engineering needed to incorporate that into a frame and make it shift effectively. It is far from even being considered for production. Same with the DF350. Unproven claims and fancy (really good) CAD work.

As for the derailleur guide I don't understand how it's supposed to work or be better than whats available? I mean I'd choose a Gamut 2 ring system with a front derailleur. It's proven and simple. Combined a front derailleur with a bottom guide roller and boom works perfect. No moving small moving parts like what would be needed on the Derailleur Guide here plus less clutter.

That leaves the footsie and I-beam adapter. One I could see both being marketable. Two they're completed, thought through, and useful designs. The footsie while not necessarily being actually "useful" it's objective is clear and it completes it. Not to mention it doubles as a fender and nut protector regardless of it you ride brakeless or not. Ps with the right material, it wouldn't be more abrasive than a shoe. Finally the I-beam adapter. It's clearly been through the design process and is a (maybe) finished product. I didn't buy an I-beam because the posts aren't the lightest compared to a Woodman, Thompson, or other. While not necessarily the most marketable it is a well designed, real, useful product.

As for the competition. Show (/require?) more evidence of a design process not just a finished product. My preconception about the designs shown might be cleared up if I could see the design process.
  • + 1
 i reckon the footsie is the best product on here. Although wearing your shoes down does take a lot of time, it does cost a lot more money to have to replace your shoes than to buy a footsie. Think of all the stuff you could buy for your street/dj bike or for yourself rather than buying shoes because u have to Smile
  • + 2
 the gearbox idea for an all mountain would be rad, but sadly, though one of more complex - least complete design?

and whether it wins or not - make the footsie anyways. i'd buy that f'sho.
  • + 1
 I kind of expected more from this competition. The frame designs do not seem as innovative as i thought they would be. And i don't feel like the components really solve any HUGE problem. I guess I expected more brand new ideas or new ways to do things rather than just add on to what we have. I'm not saying that what is here wouldn't be useful. But there isn't anything that I look at and say 'woah, that is such a good idea!!'
  • + 1
 Turns out innovation is kinda hard.
  • + 1
 Basically all new ideas and inventions are improvements that build on older ideas.
  • + 1
 I have voted for the DF-350 since I have worked on the suspension design that so closely matches this and am working on producing a prototype at the moment. This is why I understand what crazy-canuck is trying to achieve. The refinement in the rest of the design is something that can be worked on over time within a larger company such as intense who have the expertise in frame construction.
  • + 1
 Thanks for the vote.
And sounds pretty cool about your design, have any pictures you might be willing to share?

Cheers
Dan
  • + 1
 If I were to vote it would have been for the DF-350... Or my own design which was a now working clock-able and lockable BB adapter for frames that do not have ISCG tabs. (Hammerschmidt Retrofit/ ISCG Retrofit)

While the designer of the DF-350 has looked at the linkage aspect of things it seems like the functionality and durability of the linkages and lack of bearing specs has been overlooked.

Its great to design a new system but you always have to think of the implementation of existing parts or manufacturing new parts, (bearings and bushings in this case) to have a complete design that works as advertized.

Do you design around existing hardware or make your own as you go. (what is more cost effective, and or design and maintenance friendly)
  • + 1
 Hey wingman200, there are reasons those aspects were over looked. The contest asked for a new and innovative in the mountain bike industry, so I came up with a suspension platform that allowed certain suspension characteristics to be brought together that have not in the best been achieved (to my best knowledge anyways). It was my full intentions to have full bearings specs, material list, and more structurally sound rear triangle created for this contest, however there was a deadline, and between school, the gym, and work, not everything was possible to get done before the deadline of the contest.
In my 23 minute video I submitted for the judges I go over just about all the details over looked in my submission and explain my plans for them.

Also besides time constraints I was not fully satisfied with the geometry and characteristics of the suspension so was trying dial that in maybe a bit to much for the contest and ran out of time for the details.

One huge detail which will change is the way the connecting rode mounts to the chainstays and the seatstays.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

Oh and on a side note, it is always best to use off the shelf product where ever possible without compromising the product and for that reason I hope to use some standard sealed bearing with minimal mountain hard wear as ion my experience any sort of dust cap over top of a sealed bearing tend to force the dirt into the bearing rather than keep it out... this would however lead to tighter tolerances though, so we will see.

Cheers

Dan
  • + 1
 so what will become of this contest? the df350 design is winning, does it mean it actually gets built? i can completely understand the point of all those pivots on that bike but with there being so many, alignment is critical and they can cause a lot of reliability issues. i think it could have been accomplished using horst link design or even simpler, a floating brake single pivot (what the bike essentially is). btw, is there a linkage model file anywhere? simply by looking at it i presume it's degressive at the end and could use an air shock/dhx4 but without linkage i'm not so sure.

the adapter and the "footsie" make most sense here, simple and cheap to make and also have little to go wrong. i'd love to see the df350 get built but it's just too complex to be a success.
  • + 5
 6 bar linkage! Wooo.. Next up, 12-bar blues.
  • + 1
 That DF-350 runs an almost idenitical linkage to the new wilson.... Wish I'd had entered this as I've been worknig on a frame/suspension design for the last 2years that is very different. Even made a prototype frame!
  • + 3
 does anyone else think that the curvy all mountain gearbox frame looks like a freakin cruiser?
  • + 0
 Brakeless DJ bikes are pointless. just mount the rear break lever on the frame somewhere easy to reach. no worries about wrapping cables around the bars. Road bikes have had that idea with shifters for years. No need for the footsie.
  • + 0
 Is it just me or are none of these designs really innovative? There are like 3 two ring derailleurs out there and plenty of gearbox bikes too. The frame looks like its been done before too but i just cant put my finger on it. I'm sure the thomson conversions been tried, but hey maybe not.
Only thing really original here is the "footsie" which i dont see being very popular anyway.
  • + 1
 There were some decent ideas in the top 20, but the well drawn ones have been those to advance.
  • + 1
 Manuafacturers are coming out with frames every other year, dun see the attraction of a new DH frame. the derailleur and adaptor are really fresh ideas though! hope they'll be able to win!
  • + 0
 Shoes company would not recommend footsie (even if may work better than I think). The gearbox for an all mountain use could have a disadvantage of weight, for the rest I love the thompson solution (allready seen it), that derraileur guide may revolution the enduro, but that frame, is the sikkest frame ever seen.
  • + 4
 i beam adaptor for me , cheap and works
  • + 2
 lol, i wouldn't say cheap, given that it means you have to have already bought a thompson seatpost. People that can afford thompson seatposts clearly aren't interested in cheap seatpost solutions... stupid idea IMO.
  • + 3
 why not just buy an i beam saddle and post. This makes no sense to me at all
  • + 3
 I would vote for a footsie equipped DF-350
  • + 3
 you'd get so much abuse at a park with a footsie... Razz
  • + 1
 Some pretty cool ideas came out of this. So what the winner just gives up their design to the company that wants to build it and thats the end of story or what?
  • + 1
 DBomberMan, The decision on if and how this design goes to market will depend on the person who submitted. ALL the design rights to it belong to the student. If they choose to work with the manufacturer, that will be their choice. The companies involved have no rights to use the design without working out a deal with the designer. I know that all three have expressed interest. - Jeremy
  • + 1
 Ah was curious about that thank you for the clarification.
  • + 1
 Some really great ideas here. From simple and overdue to new frame design... i dig the guide & the adapter, but ultimately i'd like to see the DF-350 come to fruition...
  • + 2
 My god. That DF 350 looks like it could win a worldcup. if it has the right rider riding it to its abilities.
  • + 1
 I'd like to see the AM gearbox frame teamed up with a Rohloff speedhub wheel. It would weigh quite a bit but it should be pretty reliable.
  • + 2
 Go to Nicolai website bud, and look for the Nucleon All Mountain frame. Very exciting for a Rohloff fan. Frame weights look a bit crazy though. Even considering the weight of the Rohloff. Enjoy!
  • + 2
 Derailleur guid all the way! It just solves so many problems at the same time.
  • + 2
 www.nicolai.net/159-0-Helius

what's innovative about the gearbox frame?
  • + 2
 I still think the derailleur guide is the best idea. It's the only one i would actually buy given that it works well
  • + 1
 Footsie isnt that bad of an idea for people riding brakeless in hilly areas Razz
  • + 1
 the top winner...increasing unsprung weight...you can do that with a hammerschmidt......which I got rid of.....
  • + 1
 Footsie is just stupid ive rode brakeless and with brakes and footsie is just an akward brake
  • + 1
 i-beam is practical but is only as good as the saddle is comfortable and with so many preferences and choices for saddles..
  • + 1
 derailleur got my vote Smile exactly what we need, not another expensive frame that i'll never get to ride.
  • + 1
 Pivitol seat for a mtb, that's what you need, f*ck rails/I beam idea shit. Job done.
  • + 1
 footsie is useles. i thin with him imposible to do lawnmower or something like that. shoes just have better grip
  • + 3
 DF-350 !
  • + 4
 I'd like to have ,,footsie" on my bike Smile
  • + 2
 Dont really understand how the DF-350 works, can anyone explain?
  • - 7
flag rigodon777 (Apr 10, 2012 at 8:59) (Below Threshold)
 Using a new 6 BAR LINKAGE?? Are you shitting me, we already have enough different suspension platform, that pretty much 90% of people on here don't feel the difference between single-pivot and VPP, why make a completly new one again? Creating new platform is getting old now, we should instead try to make the current one better..
  • + 5
 Did you check out the video? m.pinkbike.com/video/250823
  • - 2
 Yes I did. And I I feel like there is already enough suspension platform that makes everything, but pretty much 90% of people on here and people who buys bikes won't feel the difference.
  • + 2
 Over 300 votes and only 1/2 have viewed his video.
  • + 3
 I can tell you that I deffintly feel a difference between just about every different suspension flatform I have tried. Also you can compare a single pivot to VPP if you like, except that everyone of them feels completely different due to leverage ratios, geometry changes, pivot locations, chainstay lengths, and so on. If you ride a single pivot Makulu and then go to a single pivot Flatline, you will likely notice a fair difference.
  • + 1
 Agreed, of course you can feel platform difference. If you get out and ride different bikes at all you will.
  • + 0
 is it just me that thinks putting a gearbox on a bike wuold be getting a bit to technical and possibly take some of the fun out of it ?
  • + 1
 Big ups to the thompson to I beam adapter, I will run one when they come out
  • + 1
 they should call the footsie the assie only bc your gonna hit it with your ass before your foot
  • + 1
 $8000 bike?? lol
the derailleur guide seems a bit redundant with options like the MRP 2X and E13's new guide coming out
  • + 1
 How do you break your seatpost ?!
  • + 1
 Derailluer chainguide got my vote....it's innovative
  • + 1
 thompson ibeam as it has actually been made and isn't just a drawing.
  • + 0
 Did not even know this was happening, I guess I'll keep my ideas to my self. Might be a good thing. I voted for the am bike
  • + 1
 Innovative sheit some of this..
  • + 1
 am i the only one who hasent been paying attention to this contest
  • + 1
 That Footsie is just plain dumb.
  • + 0
 Honestly, everyone already know that sick DH-350 is gonna win!
  • + 1
 the dh-350 is just a dh rig, any company can come out with a new and different design, it only looks cool. personally i think the spesh demo has a sick looking suspension set up, but in reality is it any more innovative than this one here? i voted for the deralieur guide, i have an AM bike and i hate how the chain is always flopping around back there, seems like a no brainer that should have been a part of all bikes a long time ago.
  • + 0
 I'm only seeing 5 bars on the DH-350.
  • + 3
 And you only notice 3 on all the four bars out there such from Giants, to Kona, or Norco. The reason is when you are talking about linkages, the base (or in the case of a bike, the frame) counts as a link. Wink
  • + 1
 the footsie is soo dumb.
  • + 1
 Footsies are stupid
  • + 0
 the df-350 frame has the same idea as the wilson devinci.
  • + 1
 Not at all. The idea behind the DF-350 is to havbe a 75% rearward wheel path while keeping the wheel dropouts level. Not at all what the Devinci does. I'm not saying the Devinci is lacking, it is an amazing design to say the least, but it is not the same as the DF-350.
  • + 0
 They should combine all these parts into one bike!
  • + 9
 Yeah, the footsie would be real practical on a DH frame. Oh and the Gearbox + Derailer? Wouldn't need that! And what about the fact that two of these are in fact frames? Your result would be a double framed bike with a derailer + gearbox, no brakes (to save weight haha) but the footsie instead and a purposefully mismatched seat and seat tube on a fresh build. You sir, are hilarious.
  • + 1
 Before dishing out on everybody here you must understand there is a little bit more than DH Wink .The Derailler is a sweet idea and gearboxes are already known
  • + 1
 The footsie looks stupid
  • + 4
 sit on it and it becomes the buttsie
  • + 0
 The DF350 looks a bit like a TR450..
  • + 5
 and de devinci wilson and the santa v10 and banshee legend mk2
  • + 2
 and similar to a canfield brothers F1 jedi
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