Next up on our Downhill Brake Tech Deep Dive is TRP. TRP is sat somewhere between the dizzy heights of SRAM and Hayes on their comeback. Well, that's how I see it in my head at least. It's amazing to see how many riders are running the TRP brakes at the Downhill World Series.
Whether it's the big boys like Commencal/Muc-off or the Intense team, or many of the privateers dotted around the pits, it seems like TRP is everywhere. The TRP brake of choice is the TRP DH-R Evo. Although there are still some privateers running their older brakes, a large part of most people have ended up on the new-ish brake.
I visited the TRP pits to have a chat with their team on-site about what makes their brake so popular and speak about what tech lies behind this brake's success. I spoke to Colin Esquibel, who is the TRP engineer on-site at all downhill World Series races. Colin is the man who keeps everyone on TRP products running.
We spoke about, first and foremost, the reliability of their brake. As Colin pointed out, the DH-R EVO has been around a few years now and most of the riders using it have got it pretty much figured out. He describes it almost as something that, once you've got a setup that works well for you, you just need to keep on top of regular maintenance on the brake, and it will just keep working for you. It's almost a fit and forget situation. And that, to be fair, is the feedback I have had from the riders running TRP.
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So let's hear what the Colin has to say:
So what's the kind of headline tech stuff from your DH brake? What are the kind of features you want to highlight really?
Well, everybody's been running this EVO, we're going into the third year now so it's pretty darn refined. I mean, I know it's not sexy commentary and everything, but we have it to the point, you bleed it and you leave it alone and you're good to go. Yeah, the more you mess with it, you're actually doing yourself a disservice. We've gotten it to the point, and we enjoy the reputation of how reliable it is, and with that don't mess with it.
The pad of choice, at this point, has been our blue resins. That works for 95% of the riders on 95% of the courses. This is actually the only course here where we've had a couple move over to our full sintered metallics. So we have some riders doing that, changing out the rotors and the pads, because as good practice when you change the pad compound, you change the rotor.
Are you seeing people jump up a rotor size here as well?
With a couple people. Yeah, there's been a couple of tiny riders. Some on the female side obviously because they're a little bit tinier and some of our juniors that were getting by with the 203 previously and we bumped them up to a 223 for the front here. So this is actually the main venue, where we make a couple changes because it is Val di Sole and the track here is so steep.
Is it much more service heavy here?
Yeah, we're seeing people more like privateers with big issues that are used to a certain braking style for the rest of the circuit. Coming here for the first time and not being used to the steepness and length. Where, not that they're doing anything wrong, it's just this is new to them and they're wearing stuff out a little bit sooner and glazing or baking stuff where they normally wouldn't in the rest of the world.
So the reach adjustment is all toolless isn't it any other features you want to highlight?
Yeah the reach adjust is pretty simple. its just behind the lever. It used mineral oil, so you can spill it and not kill the world or stain your clothes or what not, too badly. I mean the colours sexy. I know everybody wants special tech but we just have this so refined at this point and that's the desire of a lot of people.
So what kind of things are you fixing regularly at the World Cup? What kind of attrition do you get?
Um, the quick tune up for these mainly with a lot of the privateers, because the teams have a full supply of stuff. But with the privateers and juniors and stuff at this point, as the practice season progresses and we get busier and we are three rounds in, things are starting to wear we'll do a hose refresh and also a master cylinder piston refresh. As different riders use their bikes and maintain them in various ways, you tend to get a little bit of a spongy feel after some miles or some hours or some venue hits and a quick fix for that is a master cylinder and seal refresh and a hose refresh. And that gets it feeling like new as well as a fresh rotor pads and that with the master cylinder and hose, gives you a brand new set of brakes.
So for people at home, what is your top tip for keeping their brakes feeling fresh and race ready?
I would do a fluid purge. If you haven't done it in a while. An easy way with that, to see if you need it, is get your syringe, put some fresh fluid in there, open the bleed nipple up, pull some fluid out. And then you got different colour fluid coming out. Do a fluid purge and a re-bleed.if you want to you can call up one of our offices wherever we are in the world ask for a master cylinder and a hose kit.
Is it a big job?
It's pretty easy. Basic mechanical skills. I know that's a matter of perspective. Your shop can do it. Any shop that sold them to you should be able to do it.
I then headed over to the Intense pit to talk to Joe Breeden about how he likes to set up his TRP DH-R brakes.
Are you picky with your TRP setup at all?
In brakes set-up I'm generally very picky. TRPs are the brakes I've been the least picky with as possible. So in previous years, we've had to reset brake pad position every few runs at the World Cup, keeping pads almost brand new to keep a good feel, frequently bleeding. But now this last couple years since I've been on the new TRP brakes, it's been my easiest life for me and my mechanics now very rarely have to do any work on them because they're just super consistent lever feel. So when the breaks are consistent in there lever feel throughout all the pad wear, through different temperatures and levels of braking, then there's not a lot to do. So our life has got a lot easier since these new TRP brakes for sure.
So with your setup, lever-wise do you have a lot of reach on them?
No, I have my levers pretty close to the grip. The front I have more close than I do the rear. And if you were to feel them in the carpark they feel unbalanced, like the rear bites before the front. But somehow when I'm riding, maybe I don't pull as hard on the front or so, but when I'm on the brakes, they feel balanced when I'm coming down the track. So it's a little bit weird, because Stout, my mechanic, always says your brakes are unbalanced but I'm like nah when I'm on track, they're balanced. But I get what you mean in the in the carpark but we're very precise with lever angle. The bite point. But as I say they're super consistent on these brakes. So once we have it set, they're good. You know, even throughout the pad wear they stay very consistent.
You're on their new disc. How are we finding it?
Yeah, brilliant. I run 220 discs. I just like as much power as I can, front and back. I think they're a little bit thicker, so perhaps they deal with the heat a little bit better. They're definitely stiffer. And all I can really comment on is my experience here this week. You know Val di Sole is super steep, super demanding on the brake, get a lot of temperature into them and this is the best brake setup I've ever had here. The consistent feel and power top to bottom. So where exactly that's coming from? I don't know. But the brake and disc combined is phenomenal.
So is Val di Sole probably the most challenging track of the year for brakes?
Yeah, I'd say so. Yeah. It starts off pretty flat at the top, like not flat, but it's like you know you're not on a motorway. But then towards the bottom, the hill just gets steeper and steeper and steeper and by the last probably minute, you spent a lot of time on the brakes, and that's when they get really challenged. That's when the temperature really builds up and that's where you'll tell the difference.
Did you swap to the sintered pads instead of organics or do you just keep it pretty much the same?
No very, very rarely will we go sintered. We stick with resin pretty much the whole time. Unless it gets really wet and cold or really muddy then we'll start playing with sintered but that's quite rare.
Any tips people at home for looking after brakes?
Buy a set of TRPs as you never have to play with them. That all sounds like such a plug but honestly, the reality of it is. I used to play with brakes very frequently, at a World Cup it would be every few runs and just keep it consistent for feel and power. But honestly since having TRPs, I've put them on and they just stay the same until you have to replace the pads. So honestly, that is my biggest tip.
Baahaaahaaa!
That being said, Shimano, WTF happened to the rest of your line up? It is not ok to the entire range of SLX-XTR plagued with the wandering bite point.
Also, when will new Saints come out? Can we have a bleed port on the calliper like those of the Sram code? I know not to add pressure to the system like with a Sram bleed but imagine the ease of a bleed with that simple addition of a bleeding edge port. *silently prays to the bike industry patent gods*
Saint power and reliability, ease of bleed without the mess like Sram, non-toxic mineral oil like Shimano. Guys, did we just solve brakes?
My bad, wrong place and time.
I will wait for the Shimano deep dive.
1- Bite point on Shimano brakes;
2- Breakage of Sram pulleys on the first Eagle;
3- Chain floating on Sram Eagle's cog 50;
4- Shimano star rachet style freehub failure;
5- Failure of Shimano shifters with multi release;
6- No actual testing of Linkglide or Cues.
Cable tourism will solve it...
XTR, XT, SLX, ZEE, and Saint. I have or had them all over the past 10 years and they will all start to wander at some point. Only Shimano set that never did was the old style XT 4 piston. And yes, I am well versed in how and when to bleed them.
TRP's and Hayes Dominions have never wandered and all bikes are slowing being converted to TRP or Hayes brakes.
RIP Shimano, just check the Thanks Shimano account on instagram.
Then again, maybe they change it and I loss the availability of my favourite brakes.
Even #2: I had a first-gen GX Eagle and the pulley were the least of the problems. Fast wearing GX chain, fast wearing GX b-pivot bolt, light _and_ fast wearing SRAM clutch: experienced all of those, but the pulleys were not a problem at all.
Still not sure what the pulley issue was re: breakage... I can find some complaints of it getting clogged with mud because it's not a solid piece, but that spoked design is not exclusive to GX or Eagle. If you're referring to the running change to remove narrow-wide teeth from the upper pulley to avoid it getting out of sync and clicking, and I suppose breaking if you kept pedaling like that, that was a pretty damn minor issue, and rarely happened with proper b-tension (ask me how I know).
to touch on what @brighterlights said about magura, perhaps not working on your brakes as you would demolishing a wall could help, to all those who f*ck up masters and bleed screws, be gentle, there's no need to lock everything at 50nm, nothing will happen.
also those cheap ass plastic bar clamps with coarse thread wood screws to hold them on are utter garbage and belong on Acera or Altus level brakes.
but hey, they're german. ridiculous engineering that requires different tools and oil than literally every other brake is almost a requirement.
I agree on the shit bolts, the material, I never had any problem and neither had any of my friends, if they just machine a brake out of aluminium with proper bolts it would be better for sure
The hate for Magura flows strong in your blood...
@nicoenduro Thanks a lot for your information. I've got the MT7's too with the Oak Components lever. Really love it, but the modulation is sometimes scary on loose tracks, just like you mentioned. I don't want SRAM of Shimano's, so I was looking around for something else. Since Oak also makes TRP levers, I'm kinda interested in them now. Thanks again for your feedback!
If your privateers are having issues then imagine the general public.
180 to 203 to 223 to 246 makes for +23, +20, +23. So dumb.
the silly imperial measurement based sizing (203mm is 7.99 inches, almost 8.0 inches, for those that don't know where 203 originally came from) almost pales in comparison to the inconsistent jumps.
That said, I’m very surprised everyone is running the resin pads. I had nothing but terrible luck with them. Difficult to bed in, and if the tiniest bit of anything touched them, they became contaminated and it never burned off. Switched to some sintered galfer pads and never had to touch them again.
The Blue Resin is a great pad but wears out fast, I have gotten fade on the rear with that pad but it comes back quickly. Ive since gone to MTX Red pads for the rear which show no fade and are powerful and quiet.
Ill never buy another brake than TRP, they just work reliably around season and bleeding them is far simpler than SRAM.
The fluid also seems to last far longer in TRPs. Shimano fluid always turns black after a few months but TRPs stay red for several seasons (even when using Shimano fluid).
When you look at it from a racers perspective, that's all it needs to do.
From a longer term perspective, I just could not deal with them anymore. The Tektro shit quality really comes to life when you least expect it paying 600 a set for a brake set.
A few of the many things on the reason why I dumped mine....
-Caliper Halves were not mounted even -Why do they use a T15 for the master cylinder caps.... T10 or T25 is MTB world otherwise use a allen flush nut
-Caliper nut screw seal is unevenly cut leaving a lot leaking
-Pads wore more in the back pistons than the front.
-Cheap ass pins holding the brake pads are hollow at the head so they snap off under 2nm of TQ if that after numerous uses,
-they're too cheap to provide you new pins when you buy a new set of pads
-and they take forever to break in, at least 2 full rides before the final bit becomes alive, yes I watched all the TRP how to videos and all I did was wake up my whole neighborhood with them howling
-Shit lever design, fully indexed in you have a 20mm gap still to the bar (Thank go for Freedom coast to produce levers for this) But that means another 120 out of your pocket
So thats about it on those guys
I ended up exchanging the front rotor for a brand new one, assuming the original was glazed beyond recognition, and paired with new metallic pads front/rear. Now, after an extended bed in, the front is feeling really good, but the rear still honks like a goose. Guess I need yet another rotor...
I closed my eyes, nodded silently, and acknowledged what I’d done. Slapped a new set of rotors on, brand new red mtx (had loved those on some codes), and they’re so so good.
I love the hook on the lever, with their AG speed holes…I love the industrial looking reservoir / lever assembly. I love that they’re tektros, but racing. Love em. They’re big strong brakes on monster rotors, they don’t fade (I can only hold on for 20 minutes, and I’m always working on only braking when I need to brake, but I ride my brakes way too much and these are ready for it)
And it’s sick that I have those extra rotors now too ahhahahahah
I’ll save them for when I change compounds to something else that’s great too
Brand new reds on brand new Trp rotors have stayed SILENT and fade-free so far this summer—even had a few hot days with long descents.
God DAMN I can go slow!
Only one thing is, when they're cold AND wet, they can get noisy but they come back to temp so quick that it's not really annoying. I take it a a sign, like "nice work not braking through all that jank", when I manage to get them cold enough to notice.
And I will agree with what others say about the squeal when wet, but as mentioned once you get them dried off they go silent immediately.
On Tektro brakes not TRP, but they have been stellar for me. Only bled now after a year and a half, and no bubbles, no grime, perfect as always.
Luckily TRP said I can send it in to them, and if it’s not a warranty issue, they will just charge me $30 to service.
In 4 years I've bled them maybe 3x (probably due...) and replaced pads a few times. Totally consistent, never felt like they 'needed' maintenance, I just know I ought to do it.
My shimano's on the other hand (all three pairs of them) squeak like mad if I don't ride them or keep the rotors/pads in a sterile hypobaric chamber when not in use.
Yeah the reach adjust is pretty simple. its just behind the lever. It used mineral oil, so you can spill it and not kill the world or stain your clothes or what not, too badly. I mean the colours sexy. I know everybody wants special tech but we just have this so refined at this point and that's the desire of a lot of people."
Seriously - so many grammatical and bad writing errors in this piece... not to mention just plain bad English.
Except replacing the master cylinder piston after 3 bike park trips.
(Yes, I know racers go hard, but they usually do less runs over a weekend than many riders do in a couple days at the park. And, it's a master cylinder, not a caliper, pads, or a rotor; it's not taking the brunt of the heavy work.
Will see if the gold DH EVOs I had on my enduro had the blue pads, but I know the most recent pair of silver ones did. Just started to get a bit of brief howl in the rear after a few months on them. So may be open to the galfers or MTX, or hell just the standard TRP sintered with this 10-pack deal on qbp.