NSMBA Embraces Building Diversity in the Mountain Bike Community

Jun 25, 2018 at 14:41
by North Shore  


PRESS RELEASE: The North Shore Mountain Bike Association

The North Shore Mountain Bike Association’s vision - Trails for All, Trails Forever - is powerful. We lean upon it in our day-to-day decision making and it guides us in times of uncertainty. When we reflect on “Trails for All”, the phrase goes far beyond considering the offering of trails in the network. It also encompasses all ages, abilities, ethnicities, sexual orientations and identities, along with recognizing that the land we recreate and work on is the unceded territory of the Tsleil-Waututh, Musqueam and Squamish Nations, who have been working and living on this land since time immemorial. All should feel welcome in the trail community.

While the core of what we do is to build, maintain and advocate for trails, as an organization that serves and represents many we have the responsibility to continually lead in a direction towards an inclusive and welcoming network for everyone. Mountain biking culture has evolved greatly since its inception with more and more voices bringing new perspectives and experiences to the sport. However, there are still voices that remain underrepresented in our community, so we are educating ourselves on the inequalities that exist and taking active steps to create the change we want to see. Those of us who use the trails, live in Metro Vancouver and ride a mountain bike are very privileged to do so. By acknowledging this privilege and understanding how we as an association can support the inclusion of diversity we will learn and grow together so that everyone feels they have a space on the trails.

The bicycle has always been a vehicle for change and what we do and say while recreating, even if it seems insignificant in the grand scheme of things, has an impact and will change the world. We encourage you to start by having these conversations at home, with people you trust and can lean on. Read through and digest the list of online resources we have provided, engage with us in this conversation online, and get curious about how you can start to shift the culture of mountain biking and contribute positively to the inclusivity of our community.

During this next phase, we may not always say the right thing as we practice our pronouns and learn how to communicate and act in an inclusive way. We will facilitate opportunities and discussion in our community on becoming a more diverse and inclusive one. We will not be able to do this alone and encourage local riding groups, bike shops and businesses to get involved in this conversation knowing we are here to support. We recognize that the goal will be an ever moving post, but a goal worth striving towards. We invite you to give us feedback and support us on this journey. We invite you to share your experiences, ideas, suggestions and stories as we open up this dialogue to support Trails for All, Trails Forever!

All are welcome - let’s ride!

Christine Reid & the NSMBA Board of Directors

The North Shore Mountain Bike Association is a non-profit charitable organization who sees value in building a diverse and inclusive community. Positive change both on and off the trails starts with a conversation in the greater community. The NSMBA’s statement can also be found on our website, along with a list of resources: http://nsmba.ca/trailsforall/




179 Comments

  • + 116
 Ugh.

Let me say that again: UUUUUUGH.

Here too? Here in my beloved sport of mountain biking? This sh*t?

"However, there are still voices that remain underrepresented in our community, so we are educating ourselves on the inequalities that exist and taking active steps to create the change we want to see". Come now, let us strive to be inclusive, sure. But the notion that there needs to be 'a voice from every community' included in the scene is tired. People are not Pokemon characters to collect and show off ffs. Mountain biking already does an EXCELLENT job of bringing people together, it always has. This 'pronoun practicing' can f*ck right off. Take this nonsense elsewhere, please.
  • + 26
 I bet this is an excellent way for NSMBA to qualify additional grants and funding.
  • + 68
 I'm not sure about you guys, but for at least the first year that I meet a person on the trial I only ever really know them by the bike they ride anyway. My phone is littered with "Doug Fuel EX", "Joe Following" and "Dan Yeti"'s because the important part is that you ride. I'm not sure I even recognise half of these people when they're off their bikes.

Nobody gives a shit about your skin colour or pronouns, we care that you ride a bike and then we're probably gonna identify you by the bike you ride, not your sexuality.
  • + 32
 @Zaff: I'd go ride with you any time, Zaff! You get it! Put me in your phone as Mike Kona Big Grin

I agree, it has never once occurred to me to be interested in someone's sexuality, race, religion or preferred pronouns when meeting out on a trail. Could not care less. You shred? You should go first then, because I'm not that fast, lol. That's all I care about. That, and maybe a cold beer in the lot afterward.

And to clarify, I don't mean to belittle the importance of 'the conversation' as referred to in the press release. It's worth having. But I think the pushback they are getting is that really, around the world, the MTB community as a whole is pretty welcoming and chill to begin with--no need for these strange rules for interaction. I know I *personally* hit the trails to unwind and relax, and escape all the political posturing and virtue signaling that is so popular today. Just come as you are, I have a spare bike you can ride! It's all good.
  • + 39
 Another case of finding an area where there aren't enough social/sexual/gender minorities to create a problem where there was previously none in order to fulfil an agenda that has little to do with inclusivity.
  • - 8
flag cooperquinn-wy (Jun 25, 2018 at 18:59) (Below Threshold)
 @Zaff: "Nobody gives a shit about your skin colour or pronouns, we care that you ride a bike and then we're probably gonna identify you by the bike you ride, not your sexuality.

That's exactly the point.
  • + 8
 Thank you Mike! I had to login just to like your comment. Glad to see I'm not the only one that feels this way!


By the way, any chance you're related to a John Dee? I just bought a dirt bike from him, and he lives in your neck of the woods.
  • + 3
 @cooperquinn-wy: well, if that's true, the people who apply for grants for your organization really should look into it... the specific inclusion of minority groups in your organizations mandate opens the doors to additional funding opertunites.
  • + 0
 @cmcrawfo: We're always happy to hear ideas - info@nsmba.ca is the easiest/best way for communication.
  • + 3
 @cmcrawfo: Bingo. Explains much.
  • + 21
 You wanna ride bike? Do it.
You wanna push your stupid pc agenda/identity garbage? "Go fly a kite" is the only printable reply.
  • + 2
 @allmtnshreder: Nope, no relation. But if you're ever in the Oakridge area, shoot me a message and we'll ride!
  • - 25
flag special-jLeslie (Jun 26, 2018 at 0:12) (Below Threshold)
 So here's what I can objectively gather since some of you are entirely missing the point. NSMBA/this post might have gone a bit overboard here, and apparently when things are too far outside of your perspective, they are written off as ridiculous and literally offensive to your viewpoints (genuinely hilarious when people call out those on the other side for being "offended" when their post so obviously reveals that they are actually the sensitive, offended, dare I say "snowflake.")

Anyways, with a little common sense and objectivity, it should be very, VERY obvious that mtb is typically viewed as a white male activity to the common outsider. Not for any good reason of course because it's not, but 99% of what the average person sees and obviously then internalizes about mountain biking is for affluent, white males. This actually applies to the entire outdoor industry (this article explains much better than I can: www.adventure-journal.com/2016/07/the-disturbing-bro-ification-of-outdoor-recreation) which is a bigger problem, but I digress. In any case, this article is NSMBA's attempt to get us thinking about how we can grow our sport to and through perspectives outside our own.

If you're a white dude like me, you WILL NOT get it, but please try not to let your perspective interfere with the issues and what others are trying to do to help fix them. It took years of trying to understand other cultures and dating a badass, pissed off, shredder chick to realize there is a real problem with the "bro" attitude we exhibit and promote daily.
  • + 8
 @special-jLeslie: Do we need the sport to grow this way? No one is banned or restricted to ride trails. In the end, the industry will profit most and the spirit of Northshore trails will fade away.
  • + 25
 @special-jLeslie: Why is it a "bigger problem"? Or a problem at all? Who/when was it decided that there needs to be some sort of 'representation' in any given activity, or else it is a 'problem'?

The door is open. Literally 90% of the commenters here have said the same thing. Wanna ride? Let's share a shuttle day. What is it about that point of view that you find troubling? Or are you writing it off because it is too far 'outside your perspective'? What's 'bro' about liking to ride bikes, with people of all creeds, colors, and religions, and not give a shit about anything but enjoying the trail together? I smile no less riding with a group of white people vs a group of brown people, so why should it matter?

If you have learned lessons in your life that you have deemed valuable, good for you. But it is a folly to assume that others need to learn those same lessons, in the same way, before they can gain a perspective worth valuing.
  • + 15
 @mikealive: and you ride a Kona!!! You sir, a gentleman and a scholar!

@special-jLeslie: Just to add to that, I think the clear enough message from everyone up here (judging by how posts have been voted on) is that we're sick of identity politics in general, and we're completely disinterested in playing that game for the sake of some company virtue signaling and dragging our escape through the mud in the process.

And I do think that, for a lot of us, riding is a form of escapism from this kind of stuff. You don't need to think of how guilty the rest of the world thinks you should feel, or any other problems in it, and just absorb yourself in the joy that is the strip of dirt in front of you. If you happen to rouse yourself out of that by running into somebody else on the trail, not a single person is thinking "are you a member of an underprivileged minority group", they are thinking "look, someone else that loves doing this too!". On a really good day you can even see our four legged friends that love joining in as well.
  • + 8
 @Bersekr: Already gone, this article is just a barometric update.
  • - 3
 I've been mountain biking long enough to know that it can be very clique-ish, so to answer your question: absolutely yes, here too. Society is changing in all facets, and it's about damn time.
  • + 21
 @special-jLeslie:
The fact that you have boughten into the lie that white male = you will not get it, proves how biased and bigoted your thinking has become. That line of thinking is the new discrimination, the new lie to divide us so we can be herded like sheep. Ride your bike, have fun, and be kind to everyone, but keep your agenda and biased thinking to yourself.
  • + 18
 I'm sure that all of the people on this thread were saying the same thing when brands and organizations started a concerted outreach to women. Now, after years of actually marketing to women, and building quality bikes and gear for women, there are now significantly more women in enjoying the sport, and taking leadership rolls in the community (at least in my neck of the woods). Its been an absolute blast to watch riders like Micayla Gatto, and Casey Brown and Rachel Atherton absolutely slay. While there is still a ways to go, it just goes to show that when you reach out to a community, that community feels welcome and embraces the sport.

As a still in the closet transwoman, daily rider, trail advocate and builder, Mountain Biking's inherent bro-brah culture is pretty intimidating as I look to come out. Recently, A local trail organization in my area posted a ladies group ride and said "all who Identify as she/her are welcome." Seeing that was pretty life changing. It signaled that I am welcome in this community that I have come to love and made the concept of coming out a little less scary.

So while this puts up a big welcome sign for somebody like me and literally does nothing to impact your daily riding experience, why get so upset about this?
  • + 5
 @romperroom: Very well said. Some people that are part of a majority can't/won't see things outside of the collective bubble, and somehow they perceive any criticism toward that bubble as a personal criticism.
  • + 2
 If you like bikes, go biking. Almost anyone I’ve come across in my many years mountain biking has been super stoked and welcoming.
  • + 2
 @pretzelgirl: You hit the nail on the head!
  • - 1
 I don't get what the discussion is about. You all say you are inclusive, but why so many hate on an article that embraces inclusiveness? I agree its language is pretty formal and stiff, but do you prefer to live in a world where no ones gives a damn about other people or in a world where people at least try to look as if they care?

Regarding the white privilege stuff, it's not ideology, it's statistics.
  • + 46
 I like how the dog was the most divers set of hands they could find for this picture.
  • + 10
 it is representing the 'pretty darn cute' community
  • + 11
 WTF, cats aren't represented!!
  • + 7
 @Grmasterd: people are certainly not inclusive when I bring my trail cat! This needs to change!
  • + 3
 @friendlyfoe: you are clearly entitled to give your trail cat a new pronoun.
  • - 6
flag excavator666 (Jun 27, 2018 at 1:24) (Below Threshold)
 Awful lotta honkeys around here.
  • + 36
 No diversity quotas. No SJW nonsense like mandatory use of pronouns. Equality of opportunity for everyone. Lending bikes for anyone who can't afford them so that they can experience the joys of mountain biking. Encouragement for everyone regardless of skin color but no prioritizing people of color over white people (I'm brown by the way). Keep mountain biking free from politics.
  • + 13
 Who the hell downvoted this comment? This is succinct and well versed, and, well, true.
  • + 33
 Recreational Cycling has always been the realm of the affluent. and for a multitude of reasons, particularity in North america, affluent is also synonymous with White... Why don't so many of these sports attract diverse minorities? Why don't poor kids get into Yachting? If your are marginalized and you cant afford rent or food, its hard to imagine how you are going to get into cycling at any level, and sustain it.
  • + 16
 Truth. Although the times they are a changin'. I just got back from a weekend at Panorama and there were more minorities and girls out riding then I've ever seen. MTB is still for the affluent but the "white" part of that is changing. Not to mention that like 80% of my core riding buddies are either LGBTQ or Native sooo....
  • + 0
 Ski USA does crap like this every couple years to try and forget exactly what you just said
  • - 12
flag cooperquinn-wy (Jun 25, 2018 at 19:21) (Below Threshold)
 Sure, recreation in general is a game for those with expendable income, and time.

But.... that's not really what this is about.

Can you say you legitimately think the mountain bike world accurately reflects the demographics of "non-marginalized" people in North Vancouver, or Metro Van?

And if it doesn't, why is that?
  • + 24
 @cooperquinn-wy: Well, does it really matter? Just because an ethnicity is underrepresented doesn't mean they aren't welcome. I mean badminton is totally over represented by Asians, but that doesn't mean I feel unwelcome. I joined a league, but it wasn't for me.
  • + 19
 @cooperquinn-wy: if you discover only now in 2018 that there are "demographics" difference in any sports, you might have been marginalized all your life before.

"Can you say you legitimately think the mountain bike world accurately reflects the demographics of "non-marginalized" people in North Vancouver, or Metro Van? "

yeah, you won't find the same percentage of black, asian, white and whatever color people are when you look at a "population" of mtbikers, badminton, hockey, basketball, football, soccer players etc.

"And if it doesn't, why is that?"
well the reason for these disparities is not "oh I don't feel like i can play badminton because i'm gay and black and jew and i like cats". The reasons are way more complex, and I don't think nsmba is a sociology review, right?

I ride 50% of the time alone, but when i ride with people, I don't ask them "hey what color and identity are you?" and they don't ask it to me either. If people in Vancouver are asking these kind of questions, well maybe then you guys need help.
  • + 0
 Exactly, and add elitist on top of that with pressure to keep up with the latest and greatest bikes/gear/etc.
  • + 2
 Word. I’m white af and couldn’t ride until a couple of years ago. And I still don’t have a car!!! But I have a decent downhill bike.
  • + 4
 @woofer2609: It wasn't for you. Is that because you don't like Asians?
  • + 3
 @zede: Trust me.
Many of us in Vancouver (and BC and Canada) need help. We'd rather be taken advantage of than risk being called racist.

How many other countries grant citizenship to babies born in their countries via Birth tourism at the expense of the citizens who pay taxes for the public hospitals these entitled foreigners give birth in?

vancouversun.com/news/local-news/pressure-builds-to-close-birth-tourism-loophole-for-getting-citizenship

Where else do non citizens sue the government for being biased against their own citizens?

vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-canadian-sovereignty-faces-challenge-over-foreign-buyers-tax
  • + 4
 @woofer2609: not sure how this is related ?
  • + 22
 Is it something in your water supply down there? Up here we just ride and I'd bet the ratio of women to men is pretty much 50/50 but I've never really thought about it because it doesn't really matter who shows up for a ride or whom we meet on a trail or who joins the club or shows up for trail work or volunteers to help out for an event. Are we excluding some? Well, yes there are some families just scraping by whose kids have no bike so our club started a bike bank, as have some local schools. But we haven't politicized the scene by proclaiming that the cycling community must be a social change agent. We just want to ride, meet new people and welcome them to ride, share a beer, whatever. So as they say "just pedal, dammit."
  • + 18
 If you wanna come mountain biking with my group you’re more than welcome. I don’t care about you sex,skin colour, age, how many water bottles your bike has, if you’re a dentist or not. BUT don’t bring this left wing ‘everyone is a victim’ shit politics to the trail head’. Next we’ll be giving everyone a trophy at World Cups just for turning up.
  • + 21
 Can't get away from this shit even on pinkbike lol
  • + 17
 Interesting how no one here has self identified. I’d love to see an anonymous poll on Pinkbike on race / religion / orientation. I suspect very few of the sorts of people NSNEMBA is looking to recruit to our sport are on here. I’m an Asian who has mountain biked for 30 years in the US, and I meet very few people Asian people on the trails. I meet a few more at large mountain bike events like the Wicked Ride of the East put on by NSNEMBA.

Bike parks in New England, where I live, are practically devoid of Asian people. On a crowded day at Burke last year, I was looking for someone a friend had introduced me to online to do a few runs, and identified myself as “the Asian dude with the Rocky Mountain Maiden” so he could find me. It turns out “Asian” dude would have been sufficient and complete. I was the only Asian person riding the lifts out of the hundreds of people there that day.

So for me, at least, I think about this issue every time I ride. But I’m lazy, so I don’t do more than think about it... And write this post on Pinkbike.
  • - 8
flag cooperquinn-wy (Jun 25, 2018 at 20:36) (Below Threshold)
 Thanks for chiming in! Its kinda telling that you think about this every ride, I guess?

The NSMBA isn't really trying to "recruit" people, but to have a conversation and explore.
  • + 12
 Do we really think this is because Asian people don't feel welcome to ride bikes, because they're Asian?

Because all I see happening is conversations like this convincing Asians that there are lack of Asians riding bikes because of prejudice. This may or may not be the case in some places, but so could a number of other factors.
  • - 5
flag cooperquinn-wy (Jun 25, 2018 at 20:49) (Below Threshold)
 @pretzelgirl: I don't think that's what anyone said or implied?
  • + 21
 @cooperquinn-wy: well your whole point is that certain groups of people do not feel welcome to take up mountain biking, and that this initiative is here to make people feel welcome. Why would there be a need for this, unless certain groups of people were excluded as a result of prejudice?

So what is it that is exactly being said or implied?
  • + 21
 #blacktrailsmatter
  • + 16
 The biggest problem I see on a day-to-day basis in regards to diversity on the trails is restricted access due to economic inequality. "Practicing your pronouns" doesn't do squat to give the poor access to such a wonderful outdoor activity.
  • + 3
 Yep. But, turning this into an either/or argument won't help anyone EITHER. hehehe.
  • - 12
flag cooperquinn-wy (Jun 25, 2018 at 19:24) (Below Threshold)
 But then why, roughly, are only 15% of mountain bikers women?

I don't think that's due to 'economic inequality'?

Yes, lack of expendable income and time is absolutely a factor for some. But even if we cross those without the necessary resources off the list, I'd argue mountain biking does a pretty poor job of reflecting the world.

Why is that?
  • + 26
 @cooperquinn-wy: Because more men than women are interested in mountain biking.

Not everything has to "reflect the world". Not everything has to have an equal representation of every single subgroup of people. Not everyone has to be equally interested in everything.

If there's an activity with an unequal representation of every Tom Dick and Harry, it's probably just a reflection that mostly Toms and Dicks are interested in that activity while Harry is welcome not to be interested in it (please, no one point out the fact that Tom Dick and Harry are all men...).
  • + 14
 @cooperquinn-wy: I'd say only 15% are women is because mountain biking is, and always has been a pretty rough sport. Same goes for dirt biking, off roading (trucks), rugby and football. Yes, some girls do participate, but the 'male' aspect of mountain biking is very strong. As human beings, we all carry masculine and feminine traits - the yin and yang of our species and psyche. Guys are stronger in the 'male,' and women stronger in the 'female,' generally speaking. It's the same reason men went out hunting in our earliest tribal days, and women stayed back at camp tending to the children, farming and also doing much important work like communicating and fostering relationships. One is not better than the other - just different. We can't 'try' to make mountain biking 50-50 men women, in order for us to feel good about ourselves. Or, to have a certain amount of Chinese people biking, or black or whatever. I say, just be the best human being you can be. Ride and have fun. And, if you feel you could help donate some money or time to get your neighbor out biking (whether they are white, indian or chinese) do so. The world needs more good, more giving. Bicycles For Humanity, fyi, is donating a bunch of used bikes to Africa, if anyone is interested. They raised about 9 grand to get a shipping container - they load it up, and send it over. This is a great example of giving, and love...for 'loves' sake.
  • - 5
flag cooperquinn-wy (Jun 25, 2018 at 19:51) (Below Threshold)
 @pretzelgirl: No, it doesn't have to perfectly reflect the world, but if anyone is interested in the sport, they should feel welcome.

Taking a quick glance through your comment history makes me think you're pretty aware of the bro-centric culture that is pretty common in mountain biking, and I don't believe that's just 'interest levels' - there's judgement and barriers all over the place.

Common stories of lady shredders I know walking into bikeshops and hearing "Oh are you looking for something for your boyfriend?", or similarly themed comments.

I mean, as you've pointed out, even men's clothing for mtb is nicer.
  • - 5
flag cooperquinn-wy (Jun 25, 2018 at 19:56) (Below Threshold)
 @ryanm189: I think you may have misinterpreted this.... the NSMBA isn't trying to make mountain biking 50/50 men/women, or anything of the sort.

Its working to ensure that if someone wants to ride, they feel welcome to do so.
  • + 32
 @cooperquinn-wy: There are some barriers to women joining MTB. Mainly for those who are already interested in it, and I assure you, a lot more men are interested than women. It's "bro-centric" because of the demographic. This might put some women off. It also hasn't put off a lot of them. Others work around it because they have free will and agency.

The main barrier *I* see is an increasing number of people telling me that, as a woman, I will face all these barriers and judgements everywhere I turn. Stop creating victims. Every time you identify some "other" and claim they are excluded, you make that divide even bigger.

I've never been so hyperaware of being an 'oppressed woman' until all this intersectionality and identity politics crap sprouted overnight.
  • - 5
flag wallheater (Jun 25, 2018 at 20:23) (Below Threshold)
 @ryanm189: OMG what the hell are you talking about? Ha ha ha ha......IIRC over 40% of the 2018 SORCA membership are women (I went to the AGM and used my eyes and ears to educate myself). LOLOLOLOL.......
  • + 12
 @cooperquinn-wy: I don't see the barriers. We are all free to get jobs, earn money, buy bikes and ride them if we want to. People have the freedom to choose, let them. Ride bikes no matter who you are, if you want to. As soon as someone tells me the sport is unwelcoming then I'm supposed to feel like an oppressor? No thanks. We are not identities. We are people. Go ride and you might meet some free thinking and kind individuals you share something in common with.
  • - 7
flag wallheater (Jun 25, 2018 at 21:04) (Below Threshold)
 @conv3rt: Maybe take a walk down East Hastings Street in East Vancouver one evening.....
  • + 3
 @wallheater: so we should get them into mountain biking?
  • - 6
flag wallheater (Jun 25, 2018 at 21:15) (Below Threshold)
 @conv3rt: well, once we've got them over the barriers that you claim don't exist (a home, money, freedom from drug addiction, daily threat of violence, chronic illness, lack of washing facilities, clothes, heat, dry conditions etc etc) then then sure! Or at least be welcoming. I find it utterly mind blowing that people can claim that there are no barriers in life.
  • + 7
 @cooperquinn-wy: A few reasons. Number one being risk aversion. Why do you think women are underrepresented in motorcycle and car crashes per 100,000kms? They don't think they're invincible. Especially in our teens and early twenties, when we are working on muscle memory, guys are totally into high risk sports, but women arent.
#2. Maybe the same reason there are way more female joggers than male joggers( trust me, you'll start counting now and see it's true). Some things just are.
#3. Guys love to mess with mechanical things and bond over working on crap that breaks. Women, not as much. Of course some do, just not as much. It's like baby showers; I'm never invited and that's OK. It's just not my bag!
  • - 3
 @conv3rt: "As soon as someone tells me the sport is unwelcoming then I'm supposed to feel like an oppressor?"

No. Definitely not.

"Go ride and you might meet some free thinking and kind individuals you share something in common with."

One of my favorite things to do.
  • + 11
 @wallheater: My comment didn't consider people who are homeless, addicted, aged or otherwise afflicted or somehow marginalized by society. I suppose I would assume that their situation wouldn't include feeling oppressed by mountain biking associations. Yes, they experience barriers of many kinds. But because we're on a mtb site we don't need to devolve into a discussion about how bad the world is on every topic. If we're talking about the set of people who have mountain biking as a possible option in their life (which was my unstated assumption - sorry) then I don't see the "unwelcoming" part. I've always felt welcome and welcomed others to participate in riding. What I'm against is the idea that recreating the demographic in every discipline and sector is somehow a worthy pursuit. Remove as many barriers as you can and let people choose for themselves.
  • + 9
 @pretzelgirl: Exactly. Why is the NSMBA looking to put time and resources into a problem that doesn't exist? What a monumental waste of time.
  • + 10
 @pretzelgirl: "Stop creating victims. Every time you identify some "other" and claim they are excluded, you make that divide even bigger." Sometimes the truth is so big that people have a hard time seeing it. I couldn't have synthesized this issue better than this.
  • + 3
 I can't agree more with @cooperquinn-wy . I'm a woman and I experience all he's writing about on a daily basis. Example in a trail center: "wow you can use a wrench even if you're a woman?!" This was said in good will, but shows how women are perceived. How can women develop interests in areas normally perceived as masculine if they grow up hearing such things?

I agree that women and men are obviously different (thankfully), but many differences are only caused by the stereotypes we have in our society.
  • + 1
 @Slabrung: well maybe there is still some progress to be made in third world countries, but the few polish guys i know would never make such stupid comment
  • + 2
 @zede: you have reasonable friends Smile and people I personally know would also never say that. But that was a random rider who genuinely thought he was being nice!
Also, most of the discussion under this article shows that things are not obvious anywhere... But I think things are going in a good direction Smile
  • + 2
 @woofer2609: Love the baby showers comment! Totally forgot about those. Now I wanna go! I've been oppressed all these years!
  • + 16
 Sheesh, was this written by a recent gender studies graduate, or what?
It fairly wreaks of SJW virtue signalling zeitgeist.

I don't think you're going far enough:
www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/06/high-performance-sports-2-0
  • + 5
 I'm so depressed that I'm actually not sure if that link is satire or legitimate. That's how far we've come.
  • + 15
 Wow, just wow. If you think this Pinkbike article is bad follow the link to NSMBA's "trails for an" at the bottom. It's ten times worse, you can read among other things a National Post article about how winter is racist, actually! It's under the Privilege section
  • + 2
 I've also read that milk is racist, based on the fact that it is white, and of course the movie scene from Inglorious Basterds. Because, you know...Hollywood knows best, and we should take films and fiction seriously.
  • + 18
 Want to build a diverse crowd and grow the sport? It's simple, Cut this meandering PC bullshit.
  • + 18
 Trails for all...unless you like challenging trails.
  • + 13
 Mountain biking has always been inclusive and has been ever since a rag tag group of hippies started scabbing together a bunch of motorcycle parts on to cruiser frames. Anyone with the determination and drive can find a way to get what they want. Being more inclusive is great, making a press release to tell everyone your being more inclusive is just pandering to current trends. Keep your pronouns, I'll just call everyone friend.
  • - 2
 > Anyone with the determination and drive can find a way to get what they want.

Really? I've not looked at the numbers on this, but I'd expect that those that are able to afford to buy and run a mountain bike are a significant global minority by numbers. Certainly huge swathes of people are simply not able to afford such an expensive hobby.
  • + 12
 Take your first extreme left.... then take the Rainbow Connector to Black Diamond Lives Matter, after that, transition to Asian Adonis ( watch out for White Privilege on your alt right - it's too intimidating) that dumps you out on to Pink Triangle, finish up on Gender Fluid to Non Binary (the new flow trail) and you're done.

All joking aside, the NSMBA has done an incredible job of making the Shore more approachable for the last several years. I've always seen the community as a pretty inclusive, welcoming bunch, and there's way more people of colour and women on the trails than ever, which is awesome. I think the over the top virtue signalling in the press release is a bit much, it reads almost like a parody and I barfed in my mouth when I read "privilege" but Pink Bike comments aren't exactly the demographic they're reaching out to, are they? though.

Keep up the good work, NSMBA... "Build it, and they will come... out of the closet"
  • + 13
 I mean f*ck... keep doin e bike reviews, do more even if it means we don’t have to see more of this stale shit. Who gets stoked to ride over white guilt and f*ckn victim complexes
  • + 10
 I am soooooooo sick of this shit. Nothing but divide and conquer. Its an agenda. I find the most racist and intolerent people are the ones spewing and promoting this type of crap. So sad everybody needs a label these days after all aren't we all human beings?
  • + 14
 Will you be welcoming to e-bikers?
  • + 18
 Good point. Ebikes are a completely relevant and current issue on the shore. Yet NSMBA is being strangely silent. Why not take a stance and engage with land managers on the issue instead of just head in the sand and letting it happen?

Easier to attend some not for profit PD course on diversity and waste time playing identity politics? Disturbing citations on the NSMBA website too. Sad day in the organization’s history.
  • + 9
 This desire for 'equal' representation seems to be rooted in equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity, that is a real big problem. And what kind of representation actually matters? Is it sexual orientation? Skin color? Wheel size? Specific mtb discipline?

I ride 26" so I guess I am underrepresented in our community, but I am a straight, white male so in that sense I am over represented, but I am a freerider, so I'm underrepresented compared to the big enduro crowd.

What kind of representation matters? It seems to me like when the word diversity is used, it is always referring to skin color and sexual orientation, but there are many other ways of measuring diversity.

I believe the best way to encourage other people into the sport is to simply be a nice welcoming human beings, humans are attracted to people that like them, so if we ignore all these ideas about encouraging a certain type of representation (skin color etc.) and instead focus on being good people, then more good people will show up (and they could be from any race or orientaion).

It is perfectly fine when there is unequality of outcome with regards to skin tone, sex, wheel size, mtb discipline etc... That literally exists everywhere, it shows that different people are interested in different things... and that's ok!
  • + 13
 YEAG, Lets profile everyone into groups to fight racism....????
  • + 9
 In the tech industry, "embracing diversity" means punishing those who don't all think exactly the same, giving some priority over others, and trying to engineer peoples lives.

It is so sad as I see my oldest daughter starting to ride a bike, knowing that if current trends continue womens sports will cease to exist.
  • + 14
 I have seen attempts at forced diversity at work several times. It’s not always healthy. Willingness to include all is one thing. Diversifying just to do it is another.
  • - 5
flag mtemp (Jun 25, 2018 at 16:23) (Below Threshold)
 Careful bro... you sound like what the SJWs refer to as a "bigot"
  • - 3
 "It is so sad as I see my oldest daughter starting to ride a bike, knowing that if current trends continue womens sports will cease to exist."

I'm not really following your comment here - are you disappointed your daughter is riding a bike?
  • - 4
flag cooperquinn-wy (Jun 25, 2018 at 19:26) (Below Threshold)
 @cougar797: I'm hoping you're not reading the above as "forced diversity". Its certainly not, its willingness and welcoming.
  • + 5
 @cooperquinn-wy: Just calls it how’s I sees it. It doesn’t matter anyway. Those peeps on the other corner of the continent don’t have to care what I think anyway.
  • + 4
 @cooperquinn-wy: Transgenderism in sports (which is really what all this talk of forced diversity is about) will end womens sports.
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: It’s in of those accept my viewpoint or you are narrow minded issues.
  • + 9
 I hear a lot of talk about the high cost of entry into this sport. I call bullsh!t. A decent starter bike used is about the price of the iphone 6 that every kid in my highschool class has.
  • + 6
 I imagine that says more about your high school class than anything else.
  • + 3
 @danprisk: Concidentally, I teach on the North Shore, so the exact same demographic as the article refers to.
  • + 1
 Congratulations, you're wealthy?
  • + 10
 I must have missed the signs on the north shore that say "whites/straights only". Because unless those exist somewhere I'm not sure what the point of this press release was.
  • + 8
 Is beeing a white male a bigger privilege than riding 29" wheels? Although I have to say that I am still riding an Aluminum frame with just 130mm ...which kind of makes me pretty underprivileged...but then again I am riding a CCDB Inline shock, but thats only a 2015 model...


Gwin better watches out. With the word "win" it his surname, he seems to be quite privileged.



nsmba.ca/trailsforall --> privilege
  • + 10
 I’m 17 and most kids my age don’t even notice when someone has a different skin color than them. We’re all human.
  • + 0
 The future is gonna be awesome.
  • + 7
 I think the biggest takeaway here is the sheer volume of rustled jimmies. There are a whole lot of people who are VERY eager to tell the world they aren't racist, homophobic, judgemental or privileged. Interesting.
  • + 10
 Why though?
  • - 5
flag cooperquinn-wy (Jun 25, 2018 at 19:03) (Below Threshold)
 Why not?
  • + 15
 I think this is referred to a virtue-signalling.
  • + 12
 @cooperquinn-wy: because it appears to be counterproductive
  • + 6
 @cooperquinn-wy: other than the dog paws. those are pretty darn cute.
  • + 5
 Let's face it, more men are willing to take the chances on a mountain bike than women. I'd encourage any of my female friends to try mountain biking, but they are too afraid of going offroad. It took my wife years to be somewhat comfortable on a gravel road, took her to an easy trail center once or twice, but it just is not for her.
As for other minorities / skin colours, I can't speak for that as we frankly don't have many in Austria. We get a ton of people from eastern europe riding here, but they are mostly on vacation...
  • - 2
 I'd like to see you come ride with all of the bad ass ladies that I shred with. "Let's face it more men are willing to take chances on a mountain bike than women," is a pretty damn sexist generalization.
  • + 1
 this is so wrong, must hurt people with this mentality when i'm passing on the left Wink
  • + 7
 @romperroom: Which of course doesn't mean it's not generally true. I'd say it is. Women are more risk-averse than men generally. Also, the stronger you are, the less a 6 foot dropoff is going to affect you. Maybe I'm being sexist in thinking that men are generally stronger than women though...
  • - 1
 I have a male friend who can't put a fallen chain back on or fix a flat. Boys are sooo unmechanical.

Making generalizations about 50% of the population based on your tiny sample size is a little silly friend.
  • + 4
 @romperroom: Not everything that applies to a large group is automatically sexist/racist/etc. I was not saying women are less "bad-ass", I said FEWER of them are - that's just the way it is, otherwise there would be more of them riding in the first place. Which is probably why you generally see more women on XC bikes than on DH sleds.
It is the same story in engineering (where my sample size is considerably larger than in MTB). The female population engaged in engineering is consistently between 10 and 20%. Oh and by the way, out of these fewer females, the ratio between good and bad engineers is pretty much the same as with the larger male group. It doesn't mean men are the better engineers, but more men are interested in being an engineer.
All these "inclusion" efforts mainly serve to bring the less interested people into sports, which will then lead to a drop in the perceived ability of the whole group… I don't know if that is such a good thing.
  • + 7
 Next thing you know, you'll have gender/race/ethinicity quotas on EWS qualifiers.
  • + 9
 R.I.P. NSX...
  • + 3
 In my former area - the bro culture was pretty unfriendly to women riders. Women showed up once or twice and the bros always wondered why they didn't stick around for more rides... maybe other areas don't treat female riders like pieces of meat/objects of sexualization - but I am guessing my old stomping ground was too unique...
  • + 6
 The BET Awards on Sunday didn't seem to have a desire to strive for diversity. Just an observation is all.
  • + 4
 Lol, the leftist and establishment right are all about diversity as long as your not conservative-nevermind your color or sex parts.
  • + 7
 WTF!!??

NSMBA management obviously need more transgender riders!
  • + 4
 If this is an open dialogue then where are the responses in the comments section from NSMB?
Honestly I have no clue where you are going with this concept.
Trails for all?
I want gnar.
Thanks.
  • - 2
 We (the NSMBA) are still pushing for a new double black trail on Fromme, and have some more land manager meetings coming up. Stay tuned.

If you want, lets go for a ride and I can fill you in on this concept a bit better than the comments section - and how it also pertains to gnar.

Most of my comments ended hidden as they was neg-propped. As were positive comments from some of our builders. so the NSMBA is here, just not visible.
  • + 4
 @cooperquinn-wy:
Pink Starfish
Are you aware of that f*cking mess. Betrayal by the land managers.
How's Pat doing?
You might say I more than a bit pissed off.
Stash trails forever.
The land managers leave us no choice if we want to have fun.
Remember who built the Shore trails.
It was NOT NSMBA.
  • - 1
 @Sshredder: How is complaining on a message board going to make the shore more gnarly? I'm tired of locals having nothing to contribute except endless whining and complaints, and then still wonder why they aren't getting the trails they want. And no your half assed rogue trail that got blown out after 2 seasons isn't a contribution to the shore.

Write the land managers and tell them what you want. Acquire a permit for a trail. Run for board of directors and be the change you want to see. Although that would require putting in some actual effort..
  • + 5
 @mohinder: Gosh really!
Why assume I am lazy.
You must be a NSMBA member.
You are dead wrong.
I have tried every legit way to communicate with the land managers.
How dare you suggest otherwise!
Your ignorance is what distance me from NSMBA.
  • + 2
 OK everyone, take a deep breath. This costs us nothing, and if it makes someone feel more welcome, then it's worth it. If you don't think it would make you feel welcome - that's fine, move along. If you are already welcoming, that's great - keep doing it. The comments I read here are a big over-reaction to a simple statement asking everyone to be nice to everyone. Take a breath, be nice, ride your bike - it's that simple.
  • + 3
 News flash, no one cares about sexuality or race. When you constantly make it seem like people do, even though it's less than 1% of the population, you just end up making yourself look silly.
  • + 5
 Come on pink bike.. aren’t the e bike reviews enough of a kick the teeth?
  • + 2
 The beautiful thing about mountain bike trails that they they do not care who you are. A trail does not care if you are white, black, asian, gay, bi, straight, trans, left handed, or any other 'group'. There is no advantage to riding a trail if you are white, the only advantage is your skill.

This initiative risks segregating people into 'groups' and thinking about people as different, when they did not before. The consequences of this initiative by NSMBA, while very well intended, can be significant.

If there is racism / homophobia / etc... in mountain biking, it's not the sport that is racist or homophobic, is because some people are. They will continue to be racist / homophobic on their drive home, riding the bus, going out for dinner and in every aspect of their lives. It is not the activity that is racist, it is the people.
  • + 2
 The article literally says “All should feel welcome in the trail commmunity”. It’s not singling out groups it’s literally saying everyone should feel welcome. Can anyone give me a logical argument why everyone shouldn’t feel welcome?
  • + 9
 When 99% of people riding go out of their way to be inclusive already, why the need to write a proclamation stating that it is otherwise?
  • + 7
 @woofer2609
1. I’m not sure that 99% of people do go out of their way to be inclusive. If you read the above comments less than 50% are saying something along the lines of great let’s get more people riding or cool everyone should feel welcome in the riding community. Most of them have a general feeling of, I’m already inclusive why do I need to hear this or why does this need to be stated.
2. It’s obvious that a lot of people are annoyed that the proclamation was even stated. Reading comments like “it’s inclusive already” “aren’t the ebike reviews enough of a kick in the teeth” “here too. Here in my beloved sport of mountain biking? this sh!t?” All of the statements I’ve quoted and a lot of the posts don’t seem inclusive.
3. I asked the question “can anyone give me a logical argument why everyone shouldn’t feel welcome” and was negative propped.
4. Currently every statement that is negative propped but 1 (about 13 out of 130 +) is in support of the article and inclusion. That in itself is really telling.
  • + 8
 @Verg: Good points, Verg.

1. Yeah, 99% may be on the high side, I mean, I'm not going out of my way to get people to try mountain biking, just as I don't try to encourage people to ride motorcycles, which is another hobby of mine.
Why not?
Because both are dangerous sports, and I don't want to pressure someone into something that could possibly injure them. That's up to the individual.
Now, if I see someone out riding, or someone expresses interest in riding, that's different. That's the 99% of the community that is already inclusive and I'm referring to. My buddies even have a "buddy bike" that everyone chips in on, so if someone from outta town or new wants to ride, they have a half decent ride. As a community, most people will help foster that interest.

2. Well, some people ARE annoyed at parts of the proclamation. Why? Because it seems to be more about the appearance of being PC than anything else. An example is the acknowledgement that we are on the "unceded territories of the Tsleil-Waututh, Musqueam and Squamish Nations." This is mentioned at every public function.
How many people who live in North Van, are willing to give up the property they own (stole?) from the First nations that are mentioned above?
None, so it is just lip service.

Trudeau (the first one) stated 'There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation'.
Likewise, I don't want to know about what gender you identify with. I want to ride with you and develop a friendship first. If we get on, great, but the starting place won't be where I metaphorically "show you mine if you show me yours". That shouldn't come into it.


3. As to the negative prop thing, yeah, that's a beast of its own. Maybe the comment was taken as what more do you want people to do to make others feel welcome that they aren't already doing? Welcome signs at the beginning of trails? Rainbow coloured trail difficulty symbols instead of green, blue, black and red?

4. Some people deal with politics in their daily life and come here to share a common interest. They don't want to be hit over the head with the PC hammer. You don't watch a Will Ferrell movie expecting a serious existential film experience.
  • + 1
 @woofer2609:

1. I don’t think that 99% “May be on the high side” I think it without a doubt is. If we make the assumption that the average pink bike reader is a representation of the enthusiast mountain bike comunity then the above comments clearly give weight to the idea that as a community we’re not that welcoming or open. The comments probably dont help foster someone’s interest in mountain biking or the idea that we’re a welcoming community. Even to me, as a white male, it seems pretty unwelcoming and even a bit hostile if I’m reading the comments.

2. “There is no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation” is a great quote and I agree with it. The discussion here is about including and welcoming people in a public activity, on what is probably primarily non-private land not about regulating or legislating what happens in a private home. I find it strange that many commenters appear more worried about the articles appearance of trying to be being PC than they are about actually being a welcoming person, thus pretty much missing the point. I think bringing up awareness that all of the trails are on what was First Nations land is good information for many people that may be from other parts of the world. What might appear obvious to a lot of locals is definitely not obvious to some of the readers of pink bike.

3. What more do you want people to do make other people welcome that they aren’t already doing? I think its to acknowledge the fact that not everyone feels as included or welcome in the MTB community as a lot of us would like to believe. The comments on this article (not specifically yours) point that out. Realizing that something that we feel is accessible and open might only feel that way because we’re surrounded by people that look and act like us would probably be a huge step in the right direction.

4. Everyone deals with politics on a daily basis and I too come here to share a common interest with a bunch of you. No one had to click on the article, the headline says “NSMBA embraces building diversity in the mountain bike community” but many people did and most of the commenters are saying a variation of “It’s not a problem” or “I’m inclusive, why did you have to post this” while highlighting exactly why it actuallly is a problem. It’s similar to when a teacher asks a class to be quiet or quiet down and a child yells “I’m not being loud”. You’re right I don’t watch a Will Farrell movie expecting a serious existential film experience (unless you count Stranger Than Fiction) but I also don’t post negative comments after I play the movie and it’s exactly what the film synopsis said it would be.
  • + 1
 Dear mountain biking,

It’s time for change within our community.

The idea of building diversity can mean many things. For some it’s a scary conversation. Others are blind to the pervasive and hidden nature of privilege. For individuals from diverse backgrounds it means feeling welcome and supported within our community.

There are both passive and active steps individuals can take to support the goal of rewiring our sport to be one that isn’t so inherently exclusive.

Some of the passive steps are simple and common sense.

Pounding beers and swearing gratuitously in the parking lot, probably not going to encourage youth participation. We might want to tone that down.

Making sexist comments like “pretty good for a girl” or verbally objectifying every female cyclist you see - likely to discourage women from participating. We should stop that, now.

Slagging the bikes we see under other riders - “How old is that thing”, “Those brakes were terrible when they came out”, etc. There’s a great way to discourage new riders to try the sport in an affordable way. You know that parts bin you have in the dark corner - I bet it's full of stuff that could upgrade and improve someone else's bike.

Building diversity doesn’t mean we have to change who we are.

We can still be stoked on gnarly trails and enjoy the adrenaline based nature of our activity in a lively and exuberant manner.

We just need to think twice about being a*sholes.
  • + 1
 Ah, the sounds of when dudes think equality of opportunity and respect = oppression.

If you feel welcome in the mtb community, then cool, THIS. PIECE. IS. NOT. FOR. YOU. OR. ABOUT. YOU.

**Just because YOU. DONT. EXPERIENCE. SOMETHING. DOESN'T. MEAN .IT. DOESNT. EXIST**

I know that may be a hard idea to wrap your head around for some of you Frown

Jumping to conclusion about how (somehow) ur freedom is threatened = silly

Down voting sensible comments that don't conform to your opinion = hilarious. You're literally doing what you are sooooo very outraged by.

Chill the eff out. Go ride your bike. Try not to be an a*shole.

For inevitable lifelong a*sholes, I hope I never have to share a lift with you.
  • + 6
 >piece about the hobby I participate in
>have opinion about said piece
>ThiS piEcE IsN't aBoUt YoU!!1! REEEEE...

All the logic.

No one is threatened, and it's silly for you to try to reduce the views of a MAJORITY in order to find room for the views of a vocal minority. 'Come ride the trails, no one gives a shit about your identity politics' *literally* said a half dozen times on here, yet when NSMBA gets called out on their pandering and virtue signaling, somehow it's "hilarious" because we somehow must be feeling threatened??

Cool story bro. See ya on the trails.
  • - 3
 @mikealive: @mikealive: It's more like:

> piece about inclusion implies that some ppl/groups feel unwelcome, presumably ppl/groups that are already participating or interested in participating
> Bruh doesn't experience it, so therefore it must not exist

All the logic:
> Woman: I've been raped.
> Woman 2: Ya I've been raped too.
> Women: Ya, many of us have been raped actually.
> Some dude: I never raped anybody and I don't know anyone who raped anybody! Can't be a thing.

I think a bunch of ppl shitting their pants and often mis-reading the situation--who said ANYTHING about FORCED diversity?!?!--is a display of ppl feeling threatened.

I've only been biking for a few years, but I have personally experienced the shift in how women appear or are talked about in mtb videos and how men talk about women in these comment threads. As a lady human, this has been welcome.

Multiple ppl in this thread have proclaimed that they ride to get away from the world and responded with 'Just ride your bike'. Shocker: I AM just trying to ride my bike but sometimes I have to deal with dude bros being misogynistic scumbags in the line or on the lift. Kinda ruins that inclusive, welcoming vibe bruh.
  • + 7
 @sdmgz: Sooo many things could be said about your misreadings of the responses here (defensive much?) but I quite literally just witnessed a woman bring RAPE as an example into a conversation about mountain biking. Sweet Jesus.

I think any time spent on the continuation of a conversation with you would be time wasted. Cheers.
  • - 5
flag sjflow (Jun 26, 2018 at 23:39) (Below Threshold)
 > puts out piece about expanding the community of mountain bikers beyond white males

> white male commentariat: "trump 2020! maga! build the wall! womp womp!"
  • + 5
 @sjflow: Absolute strawman. Next.
  • - 4
flag sjflow (Jun 27, 2018 at 1:23) (Below Threshold)
 ^The silver lining is that this keyboard warrior lives in the most liberal Congressional district in Oregon. Hasn’t gone to the Republicans since the 1950’s. So enjoy your electoral irrelevance.
  • - 3
 www.pinkbike.com/news/a-quick-guide-to-the-most-effective-poses-for-mountain-bikers-monthly-yoga-with-abi-2017.html

Also--I coldn't resist--in the above Abi Yoga post, he is the first man to hit on her (attempt to hit on? I dunno, it's not very good).

*shrug* He's a 40 year old man-child who doesn't understand analogies.
  • + 3
 @sdmgz: This will be a simple warning--continue to stalk my profile and seek to personally attack me, and you will be reported.

Beyond that, AGAIN, you try to twist words in an attempt to turn me into the boogeyman you so desperately need me to be so that you can continue to have a target for your vitriol. It is misguided, I can assure you. Am I the "bro brah" boogeyman today, or the 40 year old out-of-touch so my opinion doesn't count boogeyman today? Just curious which mask you plan to hang on me next while you attempt to bully me for having an opposing (though majority) viewpoint. I would say that I'm surprised by this interaction, but I'm really not. When a person subscribes to such an extreme Leftist ideology, even those on the moderate left must seem like 'alt righters' to you, yeah?

As it pertains to statements made elsewhere in this thread, when did I ever say that people have never felt unwelcome or an unwelcome feeling has never existed?? I never made that assertion. I merely said, as have many others, that everyone *has* been welcome, from the get go. Do you see the difference there?? This is not simply a matter of semantics; I chose those words on purpose. In short, the door has always been open, to all genders, colors, religions, etc. This is a stance held by a majority here. Beyond that, *how a person feels is irrelevant*. I have no control over their feelings, because at the end of the day the only person who holds any agency over the way they feel is THOSE PEOPLE THEMSELVES. This may be some higher level thinking than those who seek to claim victim status at every turn are willing to embrace. But who ever told you that you deserve to never feel uncomfortable lied to you. That is some princess bullsh*t of the highest degree. YOU are the only one in charge of your feelings. YOU get to be the one who decides how to react to situations in your life. This is what divides those who act like adults from those who act like children...

Here's an illustration from my life to that point: There's a group of guys I've ridden with in the past. Type of guys who would give you the shirt off their back, or help you change a tire in the rain--real stand up dudes. Out on the trails, they like to recite bible verses.. like back and forth at each other. They are constantly pushing to keep up so that they are within ear shot--where others rail a berm and let out a 'Yeeew!' these guys rail a berm and shout 'Mark 2:12 Iron sharpens iron!'. It's uhh.. odd. I'm totally cool with their freedom to hold those beliefs, and like I said, these are some stellar lads... but I don't feel comfortable riding with them. Not at all. So the question becomes: who's responsibility is it to make me feel comfortable? Where does that onus lie? As far as they're concerned, the door is always open for me to join their ride. So do they need to change how they would normally act so that I feel better about the situation? Or should it be on me to find some people with whom my ideas and trail goals better align with? Relate this to the trans woman who posted higher up--she's welcome to come ride with me any time. However, I plan to be myself--I make attempts to be a courteous trail user, and a steward of nature conservation.. but beyond that, I'm still my normal self. She decides she just wasn't comfortable riding with me for whatever reason. So why is it MY responsibility to change?? To think of it another way--if some commenters here genuinely feel 'threatened', for whatever reason, are you willing to make the changes necessary to make sure they no longer feel that way? Of course not. And you shouldn't be expected to. What if your goal was to make sure everyone 'felt' enjoyment from a ride? It's absolutely subjective. Best you can do is invite everyone to ride and hope for the best--because what was enjoyable for some, was boring for others. Extrapolate that basic idea and apply it to the topic at hand...

I'll stand up in front of everyone and acknowledge that systemic racism still exists. Additionally, there exist socioeconomic differences so great that entire families worry about getting enough to eat, never mind having the resources to ride a bike on a trail. But such things have quantifiable attributes that allow for measurable progress. When you can get me some metrics whereby we can all agree that a certain 'feeling' has been reached, maybe there will be a conversation to be had. Spoiler alert: there will always be someone who wants to bitch about something, so good luck!

And with that, we've come full circle. The door is open, all are welcome... but I don't want to be on the hook for the way any particular person chooses to feel. It would appear I am not alone in that sentiment. I speak for myself when I say I didn't get into mountain biking so that I can practice your bloody pronouns at a trailwork day. Can you work a shovel? Then 'hey you' should suffice. If that makes me a c*nt, so be it. We'll work until we're worn out, then ride far longer than we should.. and if any pictures from the day are shared, we'll be sure to run them though the 'diversity filter' on Instagram before they are posted Big Grin

[Disclaimer: I hold no delusions that anything I just said will hold any sway in your point of view--lets face it, you are so intent on villifying me that you creeped my profile in an attempt to attack my character, yet the best you could do was some out-of-context nothingburger. It reeks of desperation, and shows how weak a counter point you offer. I invite you to come back to the discussion at hand; if you can't/don't want to, I understand. But please refrain from the petty smear campaign. Gracias]
  • + 1
 @mikealive: So I've used this analogy elsewhere, see what you think.

I'd say that, yeah. The trails don't care who you are. And a lot of riders don't, either. So lets say the door is open.

If the door is open somewhere, but no on invites you in, you aren't likely to just wander in? Consider this the 'Hey, door is open. Just c'mon in.'
  • + 7
 @cooperquinn-wy: Sure, and to that regard I think most of the commenters here would see eye-to-eye with you. I certainly do, as it is the same as what I have been stating over and over again on this thread. But let's not be disingenuous here, Coop--this wasn't a 'Hey, everyone is welcome!' article, nor does the NSMBA website read like an 'Aw shucks, everyone is welcome to c'mon by!' low-key affair, and you know this. This press release is rife with political undertones, and the website is very agenda-driven, with very clear language stating as much. I quoted this drivel in my original comment at the top of the thread "However, there are still voices that remain underrepresented in our community, so we are educating ourselves on the inequalities that exist and taking active steps to create the change we want to see." What voices would those be? 'Look, we know you've only been riding 3 months, but we *really* need a queer perspective on the new table top...'. Whhyyyy... why. 'As a black man, how do you feel about the usage of the Black Diamond rating.. I hope it's not too much of a micro aggression?'. Of course I'm joking here, but if there is a legitimate reason why these perspectives are being sought, I'm all ears--because it sure reads a lot like diversity for diversity's sake, which I would argue can be racist/sexist/demeaning on it's own. I reiterate: people are not Pokemon characters to be sought for the boxes they fill on the Intersectionality Scavenger Hunt sheet. That is just so f*cking gross. Are you seeking input on a new jumpline? Why should the color of their skin or who a person chooses to rub their genitals on have anything to do with the weight or validity of their input? **Sorry, but this still applies even with straight, white males**.

In reality, none of the above factors are legitimate barriers to entry for the sport of mountain biking in any free country in the world. Gay? You're good. Female? Good to go. Trans? See ya at the trail. Brown/black/white/etc? all enjoy mountain biking across the world. If there's room to grow in terms of being inclusive, it's probably on the socioeconomic front. Interestingly enough, I saw very little about serving that group of people, instead it was all about 'feelings' and 'we're sorry you're not white like us' nonsense. I guess poor folks, especially poor *white* folks don't tick enough boxes on the intersectionality sheet... *sigh*. I get it though--I've been homeless twice in my lifetime. I was worried about where I was going to sleep, not how I was going to get to the trailhead. Perhaps saying 'Hey Timmy, I know you don't have enough to eat, but how about coming out and shredding the gnar on this sweet mountain bike!" would be perceived as a disconnect... I mean, the NSMBA could just construct a program for those who have never mountain biked and would like to try, regardless of income/race/gender/etc but I'm not sure if that would end up scoring enough diversity points for your social media accounts, eh? Heh.

If I could distill it down to the bare minimum, I would say this: the one common denominator for this given group is mountain biking. It transcends race, religion, gender, etc. If I'm at a group ride and you are there, we already share a common interest. So there is no need for THIS to be made about *that*, right? Is that making any sense? However, it is very clear that yes, NSMBA would like to make mountain biking and trail building about *that*... "that" being identity politics. "That" being seeing people as a sum of the labels that can be applied to them and not the sum of their actions. How a person can do this in good faith and not think that they are being prejudiced as f*ck, I'm not sure.

I know your heart is in the right place here man, so I really hope you aren't taking any of this push back too personally--I do hope the views shared here are not dismissed because of where they originate from. I believe that would be a mistake. At the end of the day though, you're welcome to run or participate in whatever mountain bike club you see fit. If I am ever in the area I'm still going to come ride your trails, and give thanks to the builders and land owners who made it possible. I'm just gonna holler 'Miss me with that bullsh*t' as I rip out of the parking lot, so it's all good Wink

In summation, I think it was maybe best said by @Bike078 : "No diversity quotas. No SJW nonsense like mandatory use of pronouns. Equality of opportunity for everyone. Lending bikes for anyone who can't afford them so that they can experience the joys of mountain biking. Encouragement for everyone regardless of skin color but no prioritizing people of color over white people (I'm brown by the way). Keep mountain biking free from politics." Perfectly said by a trail brother from half way around the world. Mountain biking is great! Happy trails.
  • + 4
 @mikealive: well said brother. Keep on shredding.
  • + 2
 @mikealive: Thank you.
  • + 4
 We are already subdivided into wheel size clans. Is it necessary to cut us up any more?
  • + 1
 The best thing a community can do is promote small business/entrepreneurs who create jobs so more folks may buy a bike and extra stuff. The community doesn't need another 'conversation' aka nudge/lecture.
Unfortunately the big left believe .gov is the answer, liberty isn't taught, capitalism isn't promoted, all the while government and all its tentacles(community outreach programs) grow and reach wider and deeper.
Rules for radicals is a great book.
  • - 1
 MTB bros commenting here are just golfers who think they are too cool for golf so bought a $8k mountain bike instead. You’re still elitist garbage. And if you don’t think there is a problem with inclusion in the sport it’s because you are part of the problem.
  • + 3
 Nice to see some dog paws in there!
  • + 2
 Sexuality: 240mm coilover
  • + 1
 I dont see any brown hands in the pic
  • + 1
 With a pic of all white hands? And a dog.......
  • + 2
 FWIW, there's female hands, First Nations hands, and the photographer is Korean.
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