Win: Help Design the 2017 Canada Cup DH Course at Panorama

Jun 15, 2017 at 16:08
by Panorama BikeParkTeam  

Help Design the 2017 Canada Cup DH Course at Panorama

Photo by Kaz Yamamura


Panorama in partnership with SE Racing and the Dunbar Summer Series is excited to be hosting the Canadian National DH Championships the B.C. Cup. Panorama will be the venue for the National Champs for the next three years.

For those of you that have been racing at Panorama over the past few seasons, you have witnessed our commitment to providing the best track possible. We are currently in the official planning stages of this year's course—walking it, contemplating it (over a couple of beers), dreaming about it, distilling it down to best solutions. However, we are humble enough to know that we may not have all the answers—and that’s where you come in.

If you were the track designer/builder what would add, take away, or improve upon?

Here’s how you can make this year's Canadian National Champs course the best ever:

1. Watch the videos below. (A Walk with the Trail Crew, 2016 Race Recap)
2. Note the time stamp of the area of concern
3. Formulate your idea
4. Put it in the comments section at the bottom of this blog.
5. If we choose your idea you will win: Two Nights/ Two Days of Riding for Two People
6. Deadline for submissions is Friday, June 23rd.

For all contest rules and regulations, click here.

As an example, last year we installed a new drop at the top of the course, this was followed by another high-speed road gap. Current plans are to scrap the road gap and replace it with a whoop section before entering the trees. Whoops can be built in many different ways but the ultimate goal is to slow the rider down while simultaneously increasing the degree of challenge. The goal is to create the perception of speed rather than actual speed. Have a look time stamp at 27 seconds of the Track Walk video and let us know your thoughts.

Below are some areas we are still scratching our heads about:

1. Fort Drop @39 seconds
Instead of using the road to access to Old Man, riders would be directed into a new loam section in the trees before entering Old Man… or would they?

2. The Plunge @45 seconds
What if you did not go into Old Man but instead continued on to The Plunge? Should we bring it back?

3. Dollar Sign
The Dollar sign is usually crash central. It is the start of a rough ski run crossing down to The Steps into The Rock Garden. What if these sections were not included in the race course? It would represent a massive change, a big gamble, and a ton of work. This is probably the most talked about decision for the trail crew.

Please provide photo credit anytime you share or repost this photo. Photo By Kaz Yamamura

Photo by Kaz Yamamura


4. The Sender @1:25
At the bottom of the course riders send a wood drop at a higher speed then the feature is intended for. This leads to a big berm to a long flat section lining them up for our proline jump. Thoughts on these features? Ditch the wood drop? Could the jump be bigger, yet safer?

Course Preview - PANORAMA BC CAN Cup 2015

Pano Drop

5. The Finish @1:33
How should we wow the crowds in the final seconds before the line? A rhythm section, a large scrub roller, more whoops? Get out your pens and paper and show us what you would like to see. (@1:23)

We would like to thank you in advance for the feedback provided. Feel free to write us about other trails in the park as well. To keep up to date of what is currently happening the Bike Park, Follow @owenpeters_panobikepark on Instagram and share your photos through #panobikepark. To have your photos picked up by the official Panorama Instagram use #PureCanada.

Your trail building tools:

Views: 6,354    Faves: 52    Comments: 2


Views: 362    Faves: 0    Comments: 0




MENTIONS: @PanoramaMountainVillage
Must Read This Week






32 Comments

  • + 22
 Yo so I've been playing a lot of downhill domination specifically for this reason, so I would like to thank pinkbike in advance for picking me. first things first the course will be raced 8 riders at a time, with *NO* penalties on contact (weapons will be supplied throughout the course) the race course will not be limited to racers either, hikers are welcome as well as bear, moose and other fauna (cougars etc) there will be no course marshals needed. As for features there should be huge 100 metre drops and jumps so riders can throw down 720 nac nacs and super tweaked one hand canon balls, jumps over huuuuge Rapids as well as over railways too for sure
  • + 17
 I'd want to keep fort drop and the road section! But miss out on the slow corners of old man and instead go back into the plunge! We need to change up the dollar sign! Keep the degree of difficulty and challenge, but re route it into a fresh section that goes down the hill either before or after where the dollar sign currently is. Maybe a fast off camber or something similar to the old cliffs of insanity! As a racer that's what I'd be stoked on! The sender and the finish is good for the crowd, but a fresh technical section to separate the racers is what makes racing!
  • + 11
 A true Nationals track would be awesome for the sport in Canada. This is how Canada selects its top downhillers. Getting rid of the significant climb in the middle would make a huge difference. Big high speed jumps are important. Widen the track when possible to increase line choice and make the racers think. Flat corners trump whoops.
  • + 10
 It's great that you have an open mind and are picking the racers brains. The world cup racers were very vocal regarding Leogang. Natural terrain makes for the best racing. Groomed machine trails have their place but who doesn't like jumps? This is why the first and last sections of the track are great!

I would love to see more vert available though. The terrain at Panorama is wild. Adding more turns would separate racer times as well. For example, taping off the second straight line option on the dollar sign. This would lower the exit speed and the amount of crashes on that section. The chicane into the rock garden is a good model for this.

The cliffs are a bit of a classic, but it would be great to avoid up hills in dh races. Maybe starting higher and avoid dropping off the ridgeline from the dollar sign to the rock garden like @tinfoil said.

I love how some people love whoops but hate braking bumps. Whoops are for motos haha!
  • + 8
 Awesome! Well done guys, this is part of what makes the Dunbar Summer Series the best DH events in Canada.
  • + 4
 1) Fort Drop -Loam is great but it's gonna get beat up right away with a race and then a maintenance headache for regular hill traffic after that. If it makes sense to use the road, then you have easy building access and can throw a feature or two beside the road?

2) Plunge looks good, armour the hell out of that and design some cross drainage

3) Dollar Sign -nobody wants to crash without being able to assess their risk, if they're crashing for crashing sakes rather than calculated risk/gamble on a line...then get rid of it.

4) Sender -bigger wood drop with a proper transition

5) Big money finishes (more jumps) or pump section to see who's got any left in the tank

@1:35 dont start your saw with the brake off, start it on the ground, brake on, use safety/vibration dampening gloves, engage brake before walking to limb the other side
  • + 3
 Hey guys, great idea on this contest. Panorama’s improvements over the past years has been impressive! The Panorama course is a classic for good reason but even classics need to evolve here and there. Here’s *my opinion* on how to make a great course even better:

Right off the bat let’s have a nice, big wooden start ramp. A covered start ramp that gets momentum going right away makes every course feel way more legit. Proper start ramps should be gripped and have supports for leaning on while clipped in- not metal barriers with sand bags.

Regarding the whoops idea- I never felt there was an issue with the two drops at the top; the speed is fast but is controlled shortly after the road gap in the short wooden section. However, if whoops are already confirmed then I would recommend making them not too stutter-y and way more spaced out and rolling than most I see. Years ago the Pano race course had whoops near the bottom and these are the design I would recommend. Keep in mind if the goal of the whoops is to slow people down then they need to be long enough to not be jumpable, as is the case at almost all race courses that have whoops (Port Angeles, Silver Star).

Let’s get drainage for the piece of open ski run the course crosses on the way towards the uphill to Cliffs of Insanity that is muddy. Either drainage to divert water or put down short section of wood boardwalk over this. This part of the course is already slow when you come out of the woods and then pedalling through mud just feels so garbage.
That being said, any part of the course that is a wooden ramp should have grip put on it. The grip should be roofing shingles, not metal lathe as I believe this is a Cycling Canada requirement in case of crashes on the bridge.
The rock garden section is awesome, no need to change this piece besides maybe stabilizing any loose boulders so it’s predictable.

The uphill to Cliffs of insanity should be made to roll as fast as possible. This would involve building berms prior to the uphill (I’m thinking about that blown out left hander here), chopping out the roots, and laying down soil. This is also my advice for the uphill section after the Cliffs of Insanity. Uphill pedalling sections should roll fast; nobody likes uphills but these at least take us to good parts of the course.

Regarding the highlighted sections;
1. Fort Drop. This is fine and should stay in the course. What happens after it- either remaining on fireroad or new section in woods- is fine as long as no signicant loss of flow or pedalling is added.
2. The Plunge. Not worth putting this back in there- it shortens the course way more than the Old Man corners, which are also more fun. I would however prefer to see the Old Man corners bermed instead of left flat to maintain the speed, especially the last left hander that leads to where the Plunge reconnects. Flat corners are great, but these ones are too tight and slow to remain flat. Also, take out the lefthand berm at the bottom of Plunge so riders don’t have to pedal over that hump.
3. Dollar Sign. The fact that this is known as crash central should be enough reason for change. I’m all for steep tracks, but if it’s routed straight down any crashes here are potentially very serious ones. The slightly better alternative of taping it so riders have to go slower to do the two corners will just send them through a tired, eroded section of trail. Yes it’s a classic but it’s had its day and a completely new re-route should be done.
4. The Sender. This seemed good to me, no need to change it. Sends you pretty far at race pace but nothing’s wrong with that. Could always add those corners in forest before it back in to slow riders down. Just make sure riders aren’t corner on wood like they were then.
5. The Finish. Finish line should have a big jump, hell maybe a couple. This is what spectators want to see. Most of the weekend tourists are not going to hike up the 200m to where the whip-off jumps are. Those jumps can also stay, but I think there should be one right at the end. Flat sweeping corners prior to it can be built to control the speed from being too high. Build the Finish coral large enough to allow adequate stopping time.

Thanks for being open to ideas.
Cheers
  • + 3
 It's cool to see so many people from the CDN DH scene posting up comments! The Panorama track has always been fast and rough, and its awesome to see this venue stepping up to confirm that we have Nationals for 3 more seasons! Post plunge, there appears to be a good chunk of terrain that could be worked with as an alternate to the Dollar Sign. The description alone seals the deal for me, "the dollar sign is usually crash central." This is racing with the intent to perform, not to have a section that in some cases exceeds the skill level of the field. Crashing is part of the sport, but if there are any regards for the safety of the athletes, then another option should present itself that offers similar technical aspects to the $ sign, in a more feasible and controlled platform. The Dollar Sign has become the beast that it is from years of racing. The first few Nationals/Canada Cups held on that track didn't allow for riders to turn into the straight line from the top of the chute. I think we can all benefit from the unknown when racing, because that is what can also separate the field, the riders with the ability to adjust to new sections of track, different grades, high speed turns, etc.

While we are a nostalgic bunch, and heading back to the same track year after year brings back good memories, we need to consider the industry we are in and the amount of progression we have witnessed. Damn we have like a million "standards" for bottom brackets and wheel spacing now - whats up with that? If our technical components are embracing change and progression, then so should our race tracks. Lets embrace the change, and all meet in July at Pano to bed in some new steep loamy ruts on what will sure to be an amazing weekend of racing!
  • + 3
 No whoops. I have always wanted to see a supercross style table top on-off section in a dh race. The big white Rhythm line and video somewhat satisfied that, but I want to see it raced. Only thing is; it needs to be 2-4 normal table tops (of a length that is too short at speed, so it costs time jumping them) for 99% of the people and the 1% (hell, make it far enough maybe only 0.5% get the on/off) would have to have no fear and a load of speed to be able to hop on and off. This would be a key separator of skill and would allow those at the top to save significant time (one thing world cup tracks do terribly these days, maybe you can start a trend in the right direction)

I would love to see that. Heck maybe I'd even come race that.
  • + 2
 I like the idea of whoops everywhereSmile please make the whip off jump have a nice loooonnnggg landing and a good size gap for maximum sendage! Rock garden is cool and sketchy id keep it , the traverse across the hill is quite annoying on the ski run , id say change the bottom section joining that and the wood sender at the bottom !
If ive learned anything from racing in the states it would have to be theyre tracks are slightly more mellow . Keep it that way and make it sketchy! Haha
  • + 2
 1) Remove the first 4' of the sender ramp (entrance) and add a small kicker to force riders to jump onto the ramp. With mega speed the riders would gap the flat ramp and land on the tranny. Becomes a huge jump (thanks to kicker) with lower(er) risk of injury.

2) In $ segment, build a berm at the tree the guy hits @:47 on rider right (left turn) helping the rider turn left ~ 45 deg and transfer ~ 12' across the course to a berm on rider left (right turn) to correct rider back to course. Leave a shorter straight through path for riders that opt to hold their own line through the middle.
  • + 6
 Call the course Boaty Mic Boat Face
  • + 5
 This is another amazing idea by the Panorama Bike Park! Get racers input on course design! Revolutionary!!!
  • + 2
 1:25 It's a lot of sidehilling to get to the cliffs. As cool as they are, the old fall line routing below the rock garden was fast and exciting, plus it could easily be fed into the sender, with some technical terrain and creative routing used to control speed.
  • + 2
 4:57 2016 Race Recap: the current finish doesn't really represent what the riders just came down. A signature Panorama finish feature like an up-flat-drop with a long landing that can be done at high speed would close out the course well from both a rider and spectator perspective. I think log construction to represent the area would be awesome.

My second point isn't included in the two videos above, but would be to re-route down lower quadzilla instead of crossing the slope. The pedaly loop around certainly adds to the burn from fitness perspective but does not present much of a technical challenge. The other option could be to add more technicality to the loop around with a rock garden on the way back across.

Cheers!
  • + 1
 In the video, I liked everything from 4:08 onward, except the meadow pedal. Awkward creek/rock section, not so much.
Needs an open ski trail section. Tape it wide and let "the line" form over the weekend.

finish jump: flaming hoop with 80's metal blasting on the PA
  • + 1
 This is such an amazing idea and Stephan makes the BEST trails. Hands up to the trail crew at Pano!
The changes last year to the top section were mint.
Personally I love the technical aspect of everything leading up to Dollar Signs, except for last year having to hump over that huge berm in the pedal leading up to it! Please keep the rock garden!! It's tech, there's plenty of lines and it's one of my favourite sections, especially when it's greasy like it was last year.
All I would change is the bottom section, while cliffs of insanity are a great feature, maybe another option to get to the wooden sender? Last year I definitely sent that sender well past the wood! It's another awesome feature I think as well, especially to have where more people who don't want to hike all the way up can see. Personal opinion on the jump after the sender.. It was pretty much impossible for most of the women to clear that I noticed..no matter how much I tried and pedaled my heart out into it I just could never get further than 3/4 on that table. And landing flat sucks up so much speed, while it's fun to have a huge junp at the bottom, maybe shorter and steeper? Allow the boys to still send it and makes it easier for ladies to clear and not lose alot of time on? And maybe some whoops tossed in between that table, the wooden gap and the finish!
Super pumped to come cheer everyone on!
  • + 3
 Hey amazing lady, thanks for your sharing your input and your perspective. Happy to have found you on PB now too. Def looking forward to seeing you out here, I'll join you in cheering everyone on. Wishing you a speedy recovery! Also,Stephane isn't on trail crew this year, but Owen Peters is heading it up with a rad crew Smile
  • + 1
 @LindsayDonovan: awesome! Can't wait to see! There's some great ideas people are bringing up!
  • + 1
 1. Get rid of fort drop and start from race shack the hammer hut with monte Saint Anne style wood roll.
2. Old man section needs to get rid of the wood drop at start and open lines on insides with creative taping to give you more line choice. I like old man more than the plunge.
3. Ditch the plunge. But if you choose to use it . Make a new line off the road into plunge. Go past old entrance and turn on off of the road and open up a new raw line that has to go around reed and roots giving you more line choice and connecting with bottom berm.
4. Dollar sign has been played out and should be called mono rail. Use top corner off dollar sign and go with a raw line that goes riders right of dollar sign. Clear and tape leaving trees for different line selection and cross to old timer ski run. Exit woods from dollar sign onto old timer higher than the race run comes out currently. Cross OT quadzilla and enter old rock garden from higher up. Create new lines in rock garden to challenge riders and make more line choice.
5. Sender. Get rid of most wood. In the senders place I would put a step down booted. Not too lippy as to buck riders but far enough back as to hit the landing higher up the old senders landing zone so you set up for the "pro line" better. Have a go around beside made of rocks to slow down other riders to encourage hitting the step down (think step down like Fort bill before the finish line).
6. The finish. Finish jumps could be tweaked but I would have some grassy open corners flagged afterwards that the racers can rut up and get a foot out for the finish line.
7. Also I would like to add: at 1:02 I would ditch the wood on that tree section and put in a natural step down to the blown out berm under the lift or cut in a new line in the trees or onto the ski run. Has to technical and raw for different line choice.
8. Cliffs of insanity: old lines need to make a come back.
I am stoked for Owen and the boys in the bike park keep up the great work and I hope to see a less mono rail and more line choice.
Keep killing it guys!!
  • + 1
 Dollar Sign: The dollar sign has had its run. It's awesome, but I seem to remember a super cool gully in the trees riders left of the $. That terrain is rad and would allow for either direct routing down to the cliffs or a new sidehill over to the rock garden area that would really reward those riders who could hold speed through the new gully section.
  • + 1
 Natural roots, rocks, steep and challenging, off camber, less berms less machine built, fast at the top and bottom. ! all around its pretty awesome to begin with, always has been, gets better with age, but yeah rough and gnar is awwesome
  • + 1
 Hey Mace Dog here! Id say swap out the bottom sender out for a big soft booter earlier in that feature so all that speed can be but to good use. maybe scrap the wood and place a dirt kicker/booter for some sweet air and gap to the same step down landing, give the riders an opportunity to chainsaw!
  • + 1
 50sec mark. Looks like a man made creek or rock garden. Build a natural line around that with a wall ride fastened to the trees. Get rid of the last wooden feature and build a long sweeping berm.
  • + 3
 Wow... only two posters followed the rules, gonna be an easy contest to judge Smile
  • + 4
 MX Whoops section side hill close to the end jump for viewing pleasure.
  • + 0
 I've never been to Panorama, so I have not seen this track firsthand. That being said it looks pretty sweet. My input:

1. Keep the Fort Drop and the road section (drop seems awesome) @ 39
2. Switch from old man to the plunge, more speed = more awesome ( other comments mentioned old man was slow corners)
3. @1:05 hard to tell how to the trail runs but is there a possibility of widening the section to the right side ( looking from the top ) to create and inside and outside line into the next, what looks to be a right corner? If you cleaned up the chute style section then you could drop right into it off the wooden feature and keep good speed into a natural style berm where the 2 guys are sitting @1:21. Then create a shorter but rooty off camber through the trees to the right ( from the top ) that comes out near where the red quad is parked @1:21. Racers would have the choice between a short but off camber root turn or the longer but rocky chute right turn.
*not sure if that makes much sense especially since I've only seen it on video.
4. @the sender. Could you pull the whole drop back further into the trees so that fast riders can boost off the end and land way down in the landing while still keeping it an easy feature for day to day operations? Make the end of the drop closer to where the tree is vs 3 meters past the tree.
5. @1:33 Have you seen the Moto style woops they have at Queenstown in NZ? If riders are going fast enough a section of "rumble strips" could be kind of cool there. Some riders could risk sending the first one to gap the section while others would let their suspension take the punishment of 6,7, or 8 quick bumps.

Hope to be out at Panorama 1 day this summer .

cheers
  • + 0
 Right after the first drop it would be awesome for it to turn into a raw open field kinda like the field on the track in les gets but come back with an off camber section going to the fort drop. Just after the fort drop when you enter the trees ditch that little wood drop that everyone goes to the left on and turn it into a double or just keep it raw. Then it would be sweet to reincorporate the plunge into the track but making it a bit wider with another line chioce. Also Keep dollar sign cause it gives an edge to the course but maybe try to incorporate another line choice into it preferably one on the outside, looping around with a sketchy small rut.For the last drop it would be sweet if it was pulled back a bit but kept at the same angle so you could buck as you want or decide to scrub low. Also the small road gap at the end maybe instead try to make some whoops to give some show to the crowd making the last section fun for riders and awesome scene for viewers!!!
  • + 0
 I think the dollar sign should definitely stay. It was a make-or break spot on the trail, and that is what I love about racing. When you're skilled, those sections are where the time can be made up or lost. I love it. The rest I'm not so sure about, but the dollar sign should stay, in my opinion. Thanks you guys for always putting on a great race.
  • + 2
 4:16 would make the drop bigger and change the berm to a transfer jump would add difficulty and flow to that section ! hope those 2 daysof riding let us compete !!
  • - 1
 Yeah take the dollar sign out......give them something nice and easy.......they they'll complain about that...... CM!
  • - 2
 Fuck it, I say build some big senders the whole way down with some berms you can cut hard.

Post a Comment



You must login to Pinkbike.
Don't have an account? Sign up

Join Pinkbike  Login
Copyright © 2000 - 2017. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.058305
Mobile Version of Website