Thanks for all questions, that's all for now! The staff at Cane Creek are heading homePinkbike and Cane Creek partnered up to launch the first episode of 'Ask Us Anything' - a live question-and-answer session that links bike industry manufacturers to you so that you can get the story directly from the source. This is no limp-wrist link to some Joe Blow in Customer Service who agreed to skip lunch. Ask Us Anything offers a rare opportunity to communicate with the suspension tuner, product engineer and marketing hack who actually created the product or service that you are asking about. For one day only, everyone at Cane Creek will drop what they are doing to personally explain anything that relates to the products that they make.
Introducing the Cane Creek Cast
How 'Ask Us Anything' WorksType your question into the 'Comments' box at the bottom of this page and Cane Creek's staff will answer it directly below. Feel free to direct your question to a specific person. Every question and answer will be published for all to see, so you may want to scan previous comments to see if the information that you seek has already been posted.
Helpful tips:
• Try to stay on point. Ask one question at a time and follow your question with a brief context about the situation, so that the folks at Cane Creek can give you a specific reply. For example: if your question is about a headset fit-up issue, include the brand and model of the frame and also of the fork. If your question is about suspension tuning, then follow up with information about your bike, your riding style, your previous setup and your weight.
• Try to keep your questions to about 200 words or less
• Ask Us Anything is a service to PB readers who are seeking helpful information, not a forum to broadcast opinions or grievances. If you do have a negative issue that you want to ask about, no worries, just keep your complaint relevant and in the context of a question so that it can be addressed in a productive manner.
• Use the comment propping to upvote questions you care about, and downvote the bad.
Who better to help you wade through the hundreds of headset combinations available, or answer your questions about dialing in the Double Barrel than the people who design, repair and sell them?
About Cane Creek:
Cane Creek is an employee-owned company of 35 people in Fletcher, North Carolina, who ride what we make. Our goal is to foster, develop, and provide innovative solutions that enhance the cycling experience and make them the very best that they can be. This reflects what is truly important to us as an organization. This could mean better performance, enhanced features, superior quality and durability, proprietary tools and programs that enhance the rider experience, or excellent customer service. At the end of the day, you can expect the best from us.Everyday help at Cane Creek can be found here.
Do you have functioning prototypes at this point, be it a full fork or a cartridge that is being tested in another brands chassis?
Final thing, please just make a reliable dropper and show everyone else how its done. total CC convert since getting my DB air
-170mm air sprung fork with travel adjust, A2C of a 160mm fork, 36mm stanchions
-150mm air sprung fork with travel adjust, 34mm stanchions, 29er availability
-a super light 100mm for the xc boys, 29er availability
+no tools needed adjustments
adjustability
lockout/ increased compression mode +blowoff
Lightweight/stiff
Air sprung
Fox and Rock Shox refuse to give us much in the way in adjustability, and keep shoving crap like CTD down our throats. That only work well on certain suspension types.
When can we expect a fork from you?
For starting a new fork line, personally I think you should make a 120mm fork to begin with, more people ride XC then DH and it would be a good way to get some feedback, especially if (when) you can get a pro rider on it. You can work out the bugs, get some serious ride time on them and since XC is more popular, maybe even a market, then branch out into longer forks so you can keep finding and removing bugs and figure out how to keep the fork stiffness at longer travels (I don't even know if this is a thing you have to perfect, but RS and Fox keep going on about how their new model of fork is stiffer, so I assume it is.).
But I know nothing
I know that "all terrain" sounds cliche, but a bike that is further evolved from the specialized enduro evo or the trek slash, each of which are coined as all mountain bikes today. I envision a bike that is able to pedal long distances well all the way up and across everything. I want to be able to ride from my house in the city for 50 miles then rock down a mountain side with a bike that can take hits and is comfy jumping and agile to control.
What I'm getting at is i'd like to see about a 150 to 180mm fork that can handle a downhill run, but is light: that idea has been beaten to death with a stick already, but your double barrel tech may be what evolves this truly do-it-all-mountain rig.
Sean
dirt.mpora.com/news/dirt-exclusive-1-18-angleset-campaign.html
The works components headsets do what is required, not frills, they just work.
Many thanks. And rock on.
thanks for any info.
Marcel
but no one has answerd my question from CC
what university degree do you normaly need to work in designing suspension and dampening systems?
and what should you do after having that degree?
Any help would be RAD!!!!!
seriously thanks though, shock is foreal the best one I've ever used when paired with my Intense Tracer 2. I love it. I know some of the other responses said, "sometimes engineers win out over marketing (shock coatings)"... but pairing up with Ohlins sure didn't hurt you guys (maybe that was both sided). Been racing cars and motorbikes a long while, and that name is one the industry standard names synonymous with quality. Good marketing choice to broadcast that one. Keep on keeping on.
Also can the CCDB be used with 12.7mm hardware if norglide bushings are fitted?
As for the 12.7mm hardware - yes.
We've tested the DB Air on a variety of bikes and under a variety of riders (XC geeks to National-level downhill racing), and while we can't address your setup specifically, we can tell you that it's unquestionably the most adjustable shock on the market, and would likely be able to be tuned to meet your needs. Have you checked out the Suspension section of our web site for more information? www.canecreek.com/products/suspension Thanks for the question!
My advice: buy a DB air, works absoultly amazing once its dialed, and even when its not its blown all previous shocks ive had out of the water. no blowing through travel ala rp23, no crap midstroke ala dhx air/ swinger and unlike the coil shocks ive owned i can get the spring rate correct. It is steep on the price but worth every penny for the ride quality. My beloved lyriks which i always thought were the best piece of gear on my bike now feel like they came off an apollo in comparion.
Coil springs will typically be more sensitive for two reasons. The first is that you don't have all the extra seals associated with an air spring so a lot of friction goes out the window right there. The other reason is that you can more easily vary the force required to get the correct sag (preload) and the rate of the spring. In the other words you could achieve the correct sag with a high spring rate and very little preload or a lower spring rate and more preload. In the first case you would lose sensitively because the spring force would increase quickly once you pass the sag point. In the second case you gain low-speed sensitively while perhaps compromising bottom-out resistance. Either way, the point is that preload and spring rate can be varied independently.
With air springs you of course lose some sensitivity due to the friction of the air seals but you also lose the ability to tune preload independently of spring rate. This is because most if not all air shocks on the market have a negative spring that charges automatically. More negative pressure is like less preload. When we design the negative spring charging port we try to hit the optimum location for the most sensitivity but since you cannot vary the spring rate independently of the "preload" the air spring will often not be as sensitive as some coil setups.
Make sense?
(and yes, I know the CC guys have left, just wondering if anyone else might know.)
@ Kdiff i would certainly try a lighter spring use the same setup as with the 450. TF tuning have a spring calculator that may be handy as it may be worth going to a 400 rather than a 350 but depends on your preference, riding style and frame. with my orange i always found i wanted a higher weight than the calculator but the same shock on a tomac needed a lighter spring so its a bit trial and error.
I'd love to try a DB air on either of our Demos.
What is the purpose of the new high-volume inner air can for the DBAir? Would it be beneficial to put the new inner can in the DBAir on my Knolly Chilcotin?
Thanks,
1) The new inner air can is actually not high volume, it is just higher flow. It improves the air flow between the inner and outer air cans.
2) The new inner air can cannot hurt, but isn't always necessary. You should look into it if you are not able to achieve full travel in situations where you would like to and have sag and HSC set properly.
Catch22 - If you wanna run less sag on the Chili (and awesome bike btw) the new inner can would be your cup of tea.
I ride a mondraker summum, and id love to try out the CCDB coil or air.
the shock mounts sizes are however not the usual 6 or 8 MM but rather 1 22x10 mm.
Ive been looking for mountkits to accomodate this but so far no luck.
The bike is not listed on the bikefinder.
Thx
We do have 22x10mm hardware part # .HWDL we have sold a number of DB's to Mondraker owners. Great bike!
So i have a question, I just finished a pretty great season in whistler and i had a few friends running CCDB coil shocks. Only problem is they all snapped their shafts on them 2-4 times. bad set up? or Whistler just eats bikes? also they were on 2011 Demo 8's
The base tunes section of your site has different tunes for the 2012 and 2013 Knolly Chilcotin. The frame itself hasn't seen any changes that I know of, has the DBAir undergone any changes in that time?
Thanks!
Brian
The team enjoyed the DB Air this year on our Makulus ( www.pinkbike.com/photo/8118990 ).
Keep up the good work!
I just wonder what hardware I need to mount
your double barrel Air shock to my nukeproof scalp frame?
For the Scalp, it looks like 22.2x8 and 24.0x8. Thanks for the question!
This info, as well as a HUGE amount of other headset fitment info is available on our Headset Fit Finder: canecreek.com/headset-finder
Can you confirm absolutely the correct dimensions, angles etc for the headset in a 2008 Specialized EnduroSL S-works Carbon frame? Specialized UK, my LBS and the internet all seem to have differing opinions! Since it's one of yours, you would seem to be the guys to ask :-) ! Any help much appreciated! Tim
From your answer, am I to understand that I actually need to buy two distinct, different, bearings that aren't actually available in one single headset? I'm guessing I have the correct top, but that the bottom might be wrong. My understanding is that the headset was one of "yours"; if so, can you point me at the right one?
No worries at all if this is all too complex to deal with here - quite understand :-) ! Thanks for the answer - greatly appreciated!
1) We strive to create a "damping envelope" that allows riders to achieve an ideal tune for their bike of choice from a single damper setup. Having said that, do we do such things for ourselves? Of course. It would be a disservice to all the riders out there if we were not constantly testing/refining/evaluating to modify these internals as we continue to progress our designs.
2) I'm taking the 5th on the fork suggestion question
3) any advice for getting into the bike industry as an engineer - 1) learn to live off top ramen and white rice 2) learn to accept bike parts in lieu of actual money 3) place a value on riding at lunch higher than actually eating lunch
Our strategy for making a damper from the ground up - make the radest dampers available.
I guess specifically I have always wondered what your starting point is, and how best to arrive at it. Do you assume an average weight of rider and trail conditions or do you say I have a spring/mass/damper system and I want it X% over damped, under damped, critically damped etc.
Being environmentally conscious is not only good for communities, it's good for business, and we believe the industry as a whole is moving in that direction.
I just thought it was relevant to your previous comment.
All the best!
Wacek
So your saying both shocks work, but the Air will be more balanced? When you say "balanced" - does that mean all the adjustments are closer to the middle of its range?
I guess I have to just try it out to feel what you guys are feeling.
Which model angleset do i require or how to measure the forks details to get the right model? Many thanks.
2) Choosing the correct spring rate for Chilcotin frame. I weigh 215-220 lbs ready to ride. When I entered all data in the "fit finder" on Cane Creek website I came up with suggested 550 lb/in spring rate. However, on Knolly website suggested spring rate for my weight is 450 lb/in. There is quite a discrepancy between these two rates. Please, give us some advice about this.
3) I have read about some problem with shock mounting hardware:
forums.mtbr.com/9403022-post6.html
Is this issue sorted out yet?
4) Keep up the good work! Love your products and customer service! Thank you!
1) Good catch. There should not be a difference, since the 2012-2013 Chili's are the same. We have corrected our website. I literally just got off the phone with Knolly to make sure we had this sorted. We spent quite a bit of time with Knolly in the development of the DBair (even spent a day in the snow on Seymour together), so there were a lot of various settings going around. Looks like we goofed the entry of the 2012.
2) On spring rate- that is a big difference. I'll need to look into this. Until then, Knolly knows their bikes and the CCDB, so it would be hard for me not to go with their suggestion over our analytical model.
3) Hardware - I think if you look through enough forums you'll find a problem with everything! For people who have had trouble we've worked with them to resolve any issues. Please feel free to give us a call if you have a specific issue.
4) fist-bump to you sir!
There is obviously still a difference, but it is within 1 spring rate. Our spring rate calculator is based on an average leverage ratio (as it is for all bikes) and is thus simply a suggested starting point. So if/when an OEM suggests a specific spring rate for a given rider weight on a given model, we will always yield to that since it takes into consideration the specifics of that bike's kinematics. We recommend you to follow their lead.
The action shots are better, keep in mind I was still playing with my suspension set up when I was dropping the cliff vimeo.com/45172497
Also I really appreciated the for dummies tuning guide on the cane creek site makes life easy!
do you have an apprenticeship (10 weeks) and a following bachelor thesis/paper (3 months) to complete my mechanical engineering degree? I'm currently a student at the 'Beuth Hochschule für Technik' (Technical College) in Berlin, Germany. But I won't think a minute about resettling.. If so, I would write out an application?!
I would say I'm not the worst apprentice
Oh, and the nitro pressure is set and closed, you won't affect that at all.
I'm currently riding a '11 Specialzed Enduro Evo. I want to upgrade my suspension to a Air-Shock that gives me the same downhill performance as the Steel-Version, but shows better performance uphill and gives me a better weight on my bike.
Since you're supplying the '13 Enduros with your CCDBA I would like to ask if it also fits into the older Enduros and if it's possible to get it with the needed changes made (special travel, special socket) or let somebody do the needes changes to it.
Also you're supplying a special Lever for the '13 S-Works Enduro to change the lowspeed-compression faster while riding. Is that lever going to be supplied as an aftermarket product?
Thanks for your answers and keep upt the good work,
Ben
Can you already say, about what time it will be available? I want to upgrade the suspension this winter, before Season starts in March.
On a side note, the Prime is sooooo fun
cheers
Ollie
Hey Ollie, the boys at TF tuned could help you out.
I am 175lbs, 6'4" tall, riding an XL-size Mojo HD with Talas 180 forks, one offset shock bushing to keep the BB down and to slack it off half a degree. I run the CC-website recommended settings for Mojo HD apart from slowing the fast rebound just a tiny bit to match the fork but have had to reduce HSC to zero. With 104 to 108psi I get about 35% sag and in high-G berms the shock travels much deeper in its travel than my RP23 or DHX5.0 did. It feels a bit soft pulling up out of corners. I am fully aware that full travel does not use the last few mm of the damper body and I have full travel, with zero air, marked with a zip-tie, so that I can judge. Is the mod user-serviceable? Is it available in UK?
You should look into it if you are not able to achieve full travel in situations where you would like to and have sag and HSC set properly.
TF tuned should have the can available!
The bottom out control on any coil spring bike shock (at least those that I know about) use the reservoir as an air spring in parallel with the coil spring. For some very sound engineering reasons, this is not practical in the DBcoil.
Thanks!
The DBair can be setup on either bike to be an efficient climber. Of course there will be a compromise in some low speed sensitivity, so depending on your preferences (what you value more: uphill or downhill) it may or may not be the right choice for you.
Any plans for a more AM/XC shock - that would be awesome huh?
1- I recently acquired a Canfield Brothers One frame with a 2013 DB air. Did you guys spec the installed volume spacer specifically for this bike? Or should I experiment with the other spacers?
2- With no riding on it at all, there is a small knock from bushing play and I am pretty sure it is from the rearward shock mount. Should I contact Canfield or Cane Creek about this?
The volume spacer sizes spec is for the size shock. You would add the spacers as needed for a more progressive feel.
Call the CS crew here 800 234 2725 we can help you with the bushing play.
Blocks the older V10 looks like there is enough room to place a DBair on the frame. If you are near Vancouver James at Suspension Werx maybe he could mock up a fit.
Basic Job Requirements are:
1. Love of Hillbilly culture
2. Love of beer and banjos
3. Missing teeth (not required but instant credibility)
Cheers
Stifford - you said binder full of women----- Ti springs tend to have a thicker coil size and a little rougher finish so it's likely rubbing the spring sleeve. Make sure the open of the coil is not facing the open end of the spring retainer. You may also want to try an flip the spring over.
Congratulations for your excellent products. Excuse me for bringing linearity, progression and choosing between the air and coil once again, but what would help me choose would be the following.
On a bike with an 8.5 by 2.5 stroke shock with a 400lb/in coil I use 2mm of preload and 30% sag which yields aprox 320lb force, and I am assuming negligible internal and linkage friction. At 60% suspension depression the coil force will be 600lbs. At t full travel it will be 1000lbs.
At rest the force for both coil and air will be the same. So my question is at 65% and 100% travel , is the force of the air spring lower or higher and by what percentage accordingly. A link to a graph would be most helpful.
Thanks and Regards.
Im currently running a CCDB on my tracer, and have to say its transformed the bike totally, however thinking about switching it out for the air version. Other than the weight is there any advantages to doing this?
Just to be nosey, what's there to look forward to from CC in 2013?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Andy
Cheers!
It isn't a functional concern, the black sleeve is there to protect the shock from any damage. Worry not...
www.k9industries.com
I use the Obtainium ones, but it is the same thing and Obtainium don't exist any more from what I know. You might still get a small rub on occasion, but I ran for 2 years with only some really minimal rub. I now believe that happened because I didn't clean the thrust bearings often enough and they got sticky.
You'll need to warm up the black sleeve with a hair-dryer or heat gun to get it off, it's on tight.
Also im running a DB Air on my 2011 Turner DHR and i was wondering so i need to upgrade to the new sleeve since its a DW Link bike? Also what is the service intervals for the DB Air and can it be done ourselves? can you guys come up with a video for the DIY servicing i it is possible? And i would definitely buy a fork from Cane Creek maybe something for 29er Trail Bikes and also a DH Fork!
Thanks for feedback.
Alex
An air sprung trail fork with a 20mm thru-axle that offers the same adjustments as your rear shocks, please. No funny three-level damper adjustments that aren't required, no complicated travel adjustment feature, and a competitive weight. Damping in a closed cartridge (or sealed within the stanchion tube) so that the lowers can be dropped for a cleaning and fresh lube without having to jump into doing a damper service. Plenty of low-speed compression damping range.
This guys post is right on!!!! This is exactly what we need.
My question is as follows. I currently ride a Santa Cruz Driver8. Would the DB Air and the DB Coil work well with my rear suspension style? Do you guys have any idea what leverage ratio the Driver8 is Also, if I upgraded to a new Santa Cruz v10 carbon would your shocks work awesome on that frame aswell? Is the leverage ratio the same as the Driver8?
Thanks so much for your help!
Filled in the form at the website either.....
I repeadetly forwarded this mail to the adresses more than once.
NEVER i got an answer.....about my DBAir that does not get to its full compression.
For more details you can PB me, or check your mailbox at work!
So far aftersales from CC for me fails.Big time!
For the money their products costs an answer to a simple mail would be the least.
Any idea when the CCDB-Air will be available for the Demo 8 frame?
thx
thanks
Nick
Questions:
Am I crazy to feel like I need the 400 and maybe a 450? The leverage ratio's are supposed to call for a much lower spring weight but I'm not finding that to be the case and right now I'm not really utilizing any of the adjustments CaneCreek offers and highlights as its big advantages.
Am I missing out on the benefits of the CCDB by not utilizing the damping/settings?
Should I step up to the 450 and then start dialing it in?
Is anyone else my size experiencing the same issue?
Thank you for the opportunity to get these answers from the designers and the folks talking to other stores and riders.
DB
I have a ccdb 215 mm i2i ,2.5 stroke with a 500 lb spring which is too heavy for me.
This came factory fitted on a 2013 nukeproof mega am . lrg size
I have purchased a lighter spring but cannot get the old one off as there is only 5 mm or so of thread left on the preload collar to slacken it off.
The collar has no room to drop down enough to slide it out due to the spring not clearing the shoulder of the preload collar ! any ideas please ??
Cheers Ray
I have an oldish hardtail which I want to spice up a little. It's a Cannondale Trail SL 1 with a 1.5' headtube. Do you have an Angleset headset to suit this and a 1 1/8 steerer tube? I want slacken the head angle as much as possible.
Cheers
The updated valving change would give you more adjustment range when tuning the shock. Greater low speed sensitivity. To identify the updated low speed adjusters have the phillips marking instead of the flat screw driver slot.
Sorry I don't have a base tune for your model yet. I'm working on it with the CRC boys. Stay Tuned....
Make it happen soon please!!
The forum consensus is that the DBAir spring is too progressive for the essentially linear leverage rate found on the SB66. Or this to do more with the comparatively long stroke used on the SB66?
Is the DBAir spring more progressive than the typical offerings from rockshox and fox? I find my XV fox air can with large air can spacer pretty ideal.
A double barrelled question for you (see what I did there)
* Is there such a thing as a bike specific tune for the double barrel?
** Has there ever before been a bike specific tune on any of the DBs?
The reason I ask this, is because I have, from the Horses mouth (Malcolm) heard that there's no (in my case) a Makulu specific tune.
This has however sparked debate on my local hill, as some friends have been told by people like Dave Garland (who was the CRC lead mechanic at the time) that the DB can in fact be shimmed, if the shock does not cater for the bike, or more to the point - the rider's range.
Forums also tend to be a double edged sword in this regard, because some feverishly argue that there are DB "tunes" and others say there aren't.
It would be great if you could answer this question in public and make an ed to it all
Regards
Correct we have not had a one-off shim stack tune for a specific bike model. We do work with specific bike manufactures to arrive at a tune externally, using the adjusters and lot of testing back and forth.The DB is different with it's vast tuning range, this allows us to work from the outside towards the ideal tuning range.
Now I have heard of team techs trying different shim stacks etc. What happens when you do this, you take away from the shock's overall adjustment range and sensitivity. It's not that we haven't tried various shim stack models in house. Lets say we build shocks with shim stacks in a different manner, knowing that this would take away from the over all range. We would end up with something like an A, B and C tune range. Three shock models? We would rather have all of those tuning ranges in one shock. Then you be the tuner using the adjusters on your own terms your own trail.
with DH head angles becoming more slack an the popularity of angle sets, do you think DH fork stanctions are up to it, will they need beefing up if the trend continues. The reason i ask your opinion is I've see more than a few still photo's of riders bottoming out or deep into the forks travel and the stanctions are flexing a HELL of a lot!
is theres such a thing as too slack?
Would your Angleset headset fit a 2011 Scott Genius 30, and would I be able to get the full 1.5 degrees of change? I have also been told by a someone that has used it, that the headset causes an annoying knocking sound, has that been addressed? And when can we expect a new version of the Angleset to be released?
Thanks
I had a Double Barrel on my Demo this past summer, and will also have one on my new Guerrilla Gravity when its built. I loved how it rode, but was a bit saddened when I experienced what appears to be a common occurrence of the spring rubbing on the shock body. At minimal it was a noise annoyance, and at most, you could actually feel it somewhat. For a product that is billed as top-of-the-heap performance, why is there no solution for this yet? I was reassured it wouldn't affect the shock's safety, but could you not just make replacement springs with a slightly larger I.D.?
1. have a 222mm e2e CCDB coil. I have a newer bike that needs a 216mm e2e. Can I use a top out spacer with the DB design, as I used to do with WP and Showa moto shocks, or is there a design limitation that prevents this?
Secondly, an AM air fork with internally adjustible travel from 180-140mm in 10mm increments. 34-38mm stanchions and 650b compatible. I am using 650b on my Mojo SL and love it.
As someone who is keen to get into suspension setup and service, can you recommend a good starting point for learning what I need to know?
I currently work at an LBS in Vancouver, not as a mechanic, but I'm comfortable overhauling suspension components on my own bikes. My eventual goal is to offer setup, tuning and overhaul services to people. I've picked up some books and looked at UBI courses, am I on the right path? Any tips, or things to concentrate on learning?
Thanks for your help and taking the time today to do this.
PINKBIKE: More of these please! This is awesome!
what would happen if a fork and a shock could communicate? what if tuning was simple from RTD feedback that was individualy taken from each ride a rider had. >?
your shocks stand out from the rest ive ridden, will the forks? I will gladly test the first gen.
In the motorcycle world, there are lots of shocks with ride height adjustment. Why don't we see more of that on Mountain Bikes? It could go a long ways towards adjusting BB height and steering head angle.
Or is that something the frame manufacturers lobby against? LOL
2) As you dont have any forks on the market yet and you have your own workshop to play in. Do any of the Cane Creek team have standard parts in their forks or have you made your own internals?
3) Also whats your view on titainium springs. Are they worth it for all strokes in terms of performance and weight loss?
4) Do you do much modeling on matlab or any other program to see how a shock responds?
WC season is off, and we need cool articles
1. Component review esp. shocks & forks which are very cool.
2. WC rider / freerider interview
3. New Bikes / WC team sneak peak
4. Riding & vacation stuff .. epic photos
THANK YOU SO MUCH
Doesnt a small shaft have less oil displacement in a shock, thus not having as high flow through the valving as most coilovers?
Or since the ccdb isnt a mono-tube shock, does it work on a different set of principles?
The DBcoil is the preferred choice for DH racing and any situation where traction is of paramount importance. Most bikes created to excel in these situations have progressive suspension kinematics and thus play well with the DBcoil.
The DBair, while perfectly race worthy, can also be setup to be really playful. This can be more fun (IMHO) for park riding. Also, any bike that is not significantly progressive in leverage ratio, should use the DBair.
As far as Rampage - Doerfling and Buehler just prefer the DBair. It would be hard to conclude much from that for applicability though. When was the last time you dropped 50ft in a tank top?
On the DBair for the Demo 8 - We ride 'em this way, but not quite ready for primetime.
There seems to be about 1 or 2 mm of play in the shock. Should I get it serviced? Could it hurt the shock?
If it's not the bushings, the spring, or even the suspension pivots then something is bad the matter and you should send the damper in to your local service center for a thorough going over.
This shock if not sent back immediately will result in perpetual impotence.
Our Tuning Field Guide was made for you - www.canecreek.com/resources/products/suspension/double-barrel/DB_Field_guide.pdf
What made you come up with your CCDB idea and were there many technical issues/problems in designing and creating the shock.
Cheers
James
When Cane Creek decided to enter the oil-damped shock market (10 years ago now) a thorough search was done to identify technologies with potential in the bicycle world. The twin tube style damper was selected as the most promising platform, which was a dice-roll, but turned out to be a great decision. Twin tube style damping, as integrated in the Double Barrel shocks brings the tunability to the rider - you control your tuning destiny. Without getting sales-pitchy, it also does so in a way that is accessible. The 4 damping adjustments are independent, so you can tune LSC without affecting HSC, LSR without affecting LSC, etc. While we underestimated the difficulty in re-educating an entire market to spread this gospel, we seemed to have turned the corner. Many here on Pinkbike are as good at tuning as we are (or better) and can take that ability right to the trail on a DB. We have also created a Tuning Field Guide (to simplify the tuning process), as well as "Base Tunes" so the starting point is closer to the finishing point ( to make the tuning process faster). There are some other more technical reasons for the choice to adopt the twin tube damping structure: smaller diameter damper shafts, better cavitation resistance, less hysteresis in the damping curves.
Were there any technical issues/problems early on? Oh man, I'll say. It is a pretty complicated assembly that requires many high tolerance parts that all must coexist in a very small volume. Is was fraught with issues, but this is to be expected. We pretty much know that we will makes mistakes on the first protos... to quote Donald Rumsfeld, "there are unknown unknowns"
On the remote hose - we don't have any plans to do this
I'm using Scott Voltage FR3, i want to change my rear shock with CCDB Coil e2e 24. I've lookin for best suspension setup for CCDB. My weight is 82 Kg possibly my riding weight are +/-90 Kg. Thanks alot.
Where is the leak from?
At times we can have an oring burp when the High speed adjuster is turned but this is not a leak of all fluid it’s more like a drop of oil. This can look worse if the shock is warm from riding, the grease we use to build the shock is also mixed in the adjuster threads and this can run down the shock. This can look like a lot of oil if the shock is warm or hot from riding – Think oil in a hot pan. The shock is usually fine.
Is this something that I just have to get used to?
Make sure the open end of the spring's coil is not grabbing the open end of the lower spring retainer. You want these 180 degrees apart from each other. Also try re-mounting the spring upside down.
So far, solutions to this problem that I've seen on the hill are - a light layer of grease on the plastic shock body casing every 3-4 hard rides, -remove the casing all together and risk mangling those beautiful gold threads, or ride with music loud enough to drown out that horrible used mattress squeak that the shock generates.
Malcom?
Also could you guys tell me what headset fits into a 2012 specialized p.2 cro-mo frame?
On the 2012 P.2 - That little guy takes an IS42/28.6|IS42/30. Info also available on our headset fit finder: www.canecreek.com/headset-finder
Is it just looks or are there internal changes as well?
Yeah that's an old picture with a 2009 era shock. Older graphics and old crusty Malcolm - the internals would be the same.
Josh: Moto GP
Jim: Formula 1
Scott: I like the one that Dannika Patrick races in.
I can send u 3 kilos of salmon... or a bit of crude oil?? there seems to be plenty of that here... il even throw in a horned viking helmet for good measure... that should be a fair trade?!?
AND
What is the weight difference between the CCDB Air and a CCDB with Ti spring?
what do you think i should try i am on a 350 pound spring?
For the DBAir we skipped this size entirely during the design phase. So for now you're out of luck unless you find a used 165/38 from an older generation.
Also, our CS dept is available to assist you 800.234.2725
I don't know if the DBair fits in the "shock hole" on the Phoenix - I need to look into that.
I was curious to know what you thought of my design 'changes' from a couple of years ago?
Can be found here:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/4773760
My question, to add to this is, can you guys put a baseline setup for the Canfield Jedi on your site in teh DB Coil/Air lounge. Just so we have something to go off of. Especailly since the jedi has 3 different shock poisitoins which affect the rate of the travel from progressive to linear.
Thanks
The Jedi and DB do play well together. Feel free to post up your settings in the lounge, it would be great to compare with others.
We are still digging into the Jedi.
I have a v10 carbon with a fox 40 fork. My angleset bearings are bad and i need new.
What kind do i need?
That said, I personally own a 2009 Blur LTc with a DBAir and my afformentioned "mod" and it's rad. Definitly not too much shock for that bike!
Can you explain what the noise is ? Spring rub can make squeaking sound.
Will you add the rocky mountain flatline 2010+ in the basic setting for the ccdb coil?
The main functional difference between the Vivid and the DBs (both coil and air flavors) is in the way the damping fluid is ported inside the shocks. In fact, this is the main difference between all other bike shocks and the DBs. The Double Barrel shocks use a twin tube design, where the main damping is achieved through externally adjustable valving. All other shocks use the main damper piston as the primary source of damping.
Side note - One should use the word 'damping' whenever talking about fluid dynamics, hydraulics, system dynamics, etc. The word 'dampening' should be reserved for discussions about getting wet.
Thanks
I just by a BD coil for my Yeti SB66 and I would like to know a base setting to start with?
Thanks
Give this a try - Open all adjusters counter clockwise. Be careful with the low speed adjusters they have small clicks, when you get near the end of the adjustment range and you feel resistance stop.
Turn Adjusters clockwise
HSR- 2.0-2.5 turns in from all out
LSR - 10-12 clicks from all out
HSC - 0.5-1.0 turns in from all out
LSC - 15-17 clicks in from all out
But seriously, if you call us (800.234.2725) with your bike make/model/year we can help.
Thanks
www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1104108
yes
Hey Alex, Most other shocks have a rebound adjuster contained in the shock shaft. This requires a larger diameter shaft because the inside is hollow. The Double Barrel's rebound adjusters are in the cylinder head so a smaller diameter solid shaft can be used. To get even more complicated, most other shocks rely on the oil displaced by the shaft as it enters the shock body to provide external damping adjustment. The shaft has to be made artificially large to provide even a minimal adjustment range. The Double Barrel is different. It does not rely on the oil displaced by the shaft to provide external damping adjustment so having a smaller diameter shaft doesn't reduce adjustability.
oh wait, see @cork
With the V10's travel settings, you may want to run the DB air so you don't have to swap out spring rates for different travel settings. Also if you want a more progressive/lively feel the DB air may be the choice.
Getting closer on this but we are waiting some data from the CRC riders.
Josh has Knolly Tshirts......Me, just a bunch of crazy years gone by treasures.
It really comes down to rider choice, the DB air will give you more feedback/pop due to the progression of the air spring. Many riders prefer that feel plus the DB air would lighter. Now, we have to actually have a production DB air for the Demo II to have this choice....
Hopefully in the next month or so.
Also how come when i undo all my adjusting knobs the LSC one just spins endlessly ?
This is a BRAND NEW shock ????? Where is QC ????
Give our CS team a call 800 234 2725 - lets get you set up proper.
For the DBAir we skipped this size entirely during the design phase. So for now you're out of luck unless you find a used 165/38 from an older generation.
Sometimes, another brand of shock may need to go past the max or min on the rebound and/or compression adjustments to get the shock to work with the frame design. In this case, the shock will need to be sent to a tuning center to have it re-shimmed. Shock and tune will cost more than just buying a CCDB.