Press Camp 2013: Adventures in Park City, Utah

Jun 22, 2013 at 10:58
by Richard Cunningham  


Once a year, journalists from around the world are invited to meet one-on-one with bike industry folks and to test their wares in beautiful Park City, Utah. It's called Press Camp and the event has become an opportunity for Pinkbike to spend time with friends and to gather intel' on products in clean air and a relaxed surrounding. It doesn't hurt that the trail network at the ski resort here has been acclaimed to be one of North America's top ten bike playgrounds either. Grab a beverage, sit back, and enjoy a taste of the Press Camp adventure.




Kali Protectives

Kali Protectives

Kali Protectives founder and chief designer Brad Waldron beats last year's freestyle helmet with a club to demonstrate that its poly-carbonate shell can be dented easily. To the right, a look at Kali's three-sided pyramid EPS foam design that is molded into the helmet to dissipate impacts. Kali has begun to in-mold a skeleton inside some of its helmets to position key elements of the helmet during the construction process (lower right).



Kali Shiva helmet

Kali's newest full face for 2014 is the carbon fiber Shiva. It passes DOT tests at 900 grams, which techncally will certify it for moto use as well as MTB. Shiva helmets use Kali's in-molded Composite Fusion Three liner that incorporates the new pyramidal layer and a thin, shock absorbing material against the head. Price will be around $499.



Kali Viva helmet

Brad thinks helmets should be as thin as possible without sacrificing protection - and he knows skate-style helmets get tossed around, so Kali designed the first in-molded helmet with an ABS shell. It uses the same Composite Fusion System as Kali's top DH lid. It's called the Viva and Brad whacked it hard with the Kali stick without phasing it. The Viva weighs 422 grams in the large size. Price is $59.


Kali Protectives




Affordable DH Bike From Mongoose

Mongoose has re-entered the performance bike market with a plan to sell directly to its customers online. The benefits are simple: Mongoose buyers can communicate directly with Mongoose about technical questions they may have before and after purchasing a bike, and Mongoose can handle warranty claims personally. The bike that caught our eye, the Boot'r downhiller, is not new to the Mongoose line, but it looks pretty darn good for its $2600 sticker price.

Mongoose Boot R

Mongoose sells its entry-level DH sled with a RockShox Domain fork, an X-Fusion Vector Coil shock, Hayes Prime Sport brakes (200mm rotors), SRAM X9/X7 transmission and a SRAM Ruktion crankset complete with bash ring and chain guide. Wheels are sturdy Alex Freeride and the Funn handlebar is an 800 millimeters wide. Tires are two-ply Kenda Excavators in the 2.5 DH width.


Mongoose Boot'R Details:
• Aluminum frame with Free Drive suspension system, 200mm travel
• X-Fusion Vector HLR 200 mm shock
• Rock Shox Domain R 200 mm travel triple clamp Maxle fork
• SRAM drivetrain, Ruktion 36 crank, X9 rear derailleur and X7 shifter
• Hayes Prime Sport brakes with 203 mm rotors
• MSRP: $2600

Mongoose Boot R details and geometry

(Clockwise) Mongoose used its Freedrive rear suspension for the Boot'R - a rendition of the GT's proven Independent Drive design. SRAM's Ruktion crankset is not so flashy, but has what it takes - including a bash guard and a roller guide. We liked the Kenda 2.5 inch Stick-E rubber tires and Hayes Prime Sport brakes.


Mongoose




Marzocchi 380 DH fork and Moto C2R Shock

Marzocchi's 888 dual-crown DH fork may have been the best front suspension in its ten-year history if one was to judge its competition based upon ride dynamics. For its 2104 range, Marzocchi replaces the Triple Eight as its top performer with the 380 C2R2 Titanium, which will be on sale this September. Basically, the 380 C2R2 is a big step up in all respects - suspended by a titanium coil spring, its nickle-plated 38-millimeter aluminum stanchion tubes are externally relieved near the crowns to reduce weight and mete out just the right amount of compliance to give a World Cup athlete an edge in the rocks. The slippery nickle coating is further enhanced by low-friction seals by SKF.

Marzocchi 380 C2R2 Titanium DH fork

Marzocchi installed its DBC (Dynamic Bleed Cartridge) into the right stanchion tube, with three-stage compression damping. Both rebound and compression are externally adjustable for high and low-speed damping. And it gets better: The 380's all-new lowers are 100 grams lighter (overall, the new fork is 200 grams lighter than the Triple Eight) and it will accept either 26 or 27.5 wheels. The dropouts and 20-millimeter taper-wall axle are keyed together and the clamping system is redesigned to eliminate the 888's aluminum threads. Want more? how about titanium hardware throughout - and a claimed weight of only 6.2 pounds (2795 grams). Price is $1700 USD.

Marzocchi 380 C2R2 DH fork details

(clockwise) Low-friction SKF seals are new for 2014. High and low-speed compression is adjustable externally and the damper head can be removed with a thin wrench to re-valve the washer stack without disassembling or draining the fork. Al look at the 30's machined stanchion tubes - and of the new dropouts, which now use threaded inserts to prevent damaged threads.


Moto C2R Shock

The final version of Marzocchi's coil-sprung shock looks sharp and is reported to weigh only 369 grams (.8 pounds) without a spring. Unique to the Moto shock is that the valve stacks can be removed and serviced by simply removing the valve body at the IFP reservoir. The aluminum shock shaft has been enlarged to 14 millimeters from 12, and the shaft and eyelet are machined in one piece. There is an air valve in the reservoir head that can be replaced with an optional remote volume-adjuster to control bottom out.

Marzocchi C2R shock

The Moto C2R shock is designed to be user friendly and privateers are encouraged to tune the shock at home or at the track. External damping controls provide for high and low-speed compression and low-speed rebound damping.Unlike the Rocco damper, the spring can be removed and replaced without disassembling the rebound clicker and while steel springs are standard, titanium springs are an option. MSRP is $600 USD with the steel spring.

Marzocchi Moto C2R shock

Marzocchi provides a set-screw (left) to lock the spring preload collar of its Moto C2R shock. The Moto's high and low-speed damping clickers are stacked on the IFP reservoir. Removing the valve body gives access to the damper's shim stacks.


Marzocchi




Dave Turner's Original Burner Turns 20 Years Old

Dave Turner's first dual-suspension trailbike was called the 'Burner' and Dave went into production with it in 1993. Twenty years later, the Burner has grown from 80-millimeters of travel to 140 and it's wheels have also grown a little, from 26 to 27.5 inches. To celebrate the birthday of the Burner, Dave brought his family to Park City, cancelled half of his meeting slots every day and went riding. What better way to savor two decades of dual-suspension development than spending three or four hours a day "testing" the latest version of the machine that launched your career. Good going Dave!

Burner 275

Turner Burner 275

From the beginning in 1993, the Turner Burner was designed to be the do-it-all trailbike. The new Burner greatly expands that concept. Its dw-link suspension and contemporary geometry make it sharp enough in both the steering and pedaling department to make an XC racer smile, and it offers shovels full of confidence that make descents a hoot.



The Burner 275 was released last year in prototype form at Press Camp with a 67-degree head angle and a bit lower bottom bracket. Dave says that after a full year of testing and listening to customer feedback at Turner demo events, he decided to steepen up the head angle and raise the bottom bracket slightly. The result, he says, is a much more versatile bike that did not give up any of it downhill attributes.

Burner 275: By the Numbers

Like all wheel sizes, the outside diameter of a 27.5 (650B) wheel will vary significantly depending upon tire selection, and overall frame geometry can change over one degree with the addition of a fork with a different length stroke. Turner bases the geometry of his Burner 27.5 around a 702-millimeter tire and a fork with an axle-to-crown measurement of 510 millimeters (20 inches). It is worth noting that the larger diameter of the 27.5 wheel and the longer offset of its matching fork deliver similar-to-26-inch-steering when the head-angle is one degree steeper. Turner puts the weight of the frame, ready to go with a Fox CTD shock, between 6.8 and 7.6 pounds ( 3.09 kg - 3.45 kg), depending upon frame size. The frame with shock runs $2195.

Turner Burner 275 details

(Clockwise) Turner suggests a 150-millimeter fork like the Fox 34 Float CTD for the Burner. Signature CNC machining marks remind us that Turner's frames are still made in small batches in the USA. Turners use a unique bushing arrangement and grease fittings at all pivot points keep them running long and smoothly.



Turner Burner 275 Geometry

Dave Turner poses with the new Burner 2.75. Turner said that he would not be surprised if the 26-inch wheel went away in three to five years.



Flux 275

Turner Flux 275

Turner brought the Flux back - once a 100-millimeter XC/trail design, it now takes the spotlight with 120-millimeters of travel, 27.5 wheels and a dropped and profiled top tube that boosts stand-over clearance.


Turner Bicycles



So, we hope you enjoyed the first chapter of Pinkbike's Pres Camp adventure. Next, we tour a wheel factory to see how rolls of pre-impregnated carbon fiber become high-performance wheels, take a look at some more bikes, and walk through some must-have (and one or two probably not) accessories.


159 Comments

  • + 64
 "For 2104, Marzocchi replaces the Triple Eight as its top performer"

Now that's what I call forward planning!
  • + 63
 I think Mongoose moved backwards...
  • + 64
 Yt have a cheaper bike with far better spec .....
  • + 34
 So does canyon
  • + 6
 Park City Resorts trail network really isn't that impressive. I wish they would start to up their game but I think Canyons Resort will have them far beat in the bike park sector and trail networks in a few years!
  • + 4
 Which one would that be? The TuEs is 2600. Granted it is better spec for the same price
  • + 1
 Yes the tues, but the tues has went up in price a 100 per year so I thought it was still cheaper
  • + 4
 but you cannot get yt in canada or usa
  • + 9
 nukeproof scalp amazing bike and superaffordable
  • - 84
flag mfbeast12 (Jun 22, 2013 at 13:47) (Below Threshold)
 I couldn't help but notice the mongoose had schrader valves- it does have a good value build for $2600 but if a bike that expensive comes stock with schraders it seems a bit shady...
  • + 97
 What the f*ck do schrader valves have to do with anything?
  • + 43
 no one gives 2 shits about valves
  • - 5
flag RatHunter83 (Jun 22, 2013 at 16:01) (Below Threshold)
 How about the crap domain dual crown.
  • + 24
 The bike is $2600, its not going to come with a kashima fox 40.
  • + 8
 Saracen myst pro isnt badly priced either.
  • + 1
 interesting, Steve Romaniuk said the mongoose higher ups dropped the whole higher end bikes division and are just gonna stay with the wal mart bikes. Doesnt look like it
  • + 6
 status 1 is 2500 and actually i have to say feels super nice when i rode one. Its also not a tank like the goose
  • + 7
 YT Tues will now come stock with BOS suspension for it's preformance to vallue,i don't think any brand offer such package at a affordable price point.
  • + 2
 Right, but neither YT nor Canyon are available in the U.S. So in the U.S. market, what competition do they have for direct online bike sales?
  • + 0
 @ Jason-Zee

You can get y-t industries in North America!!
  • - 4
flag p-dub-4 (Jun 23, 2013 at 10:06) (Below Threshold)
 It's an X-fusion fork.
  • + 3
 @ RLoganSx

Show me where. I asked them directly on there website and it said they will no ship to North america
  • + 1
 @Jason Zee
Easy!! Know some one in Germany have Y-T deliver it to them and have them ship it to you! That was my plan any way hope that helps.
  • + 1
 Ah, makes more sence
  • + 16
 Dear Dave Turner, please offer a more affordable build option on the Burner, like x7 or slx. I wanted one of these badly, but at $5,600 in Canada for the "cheapest" build - xt - I had to go with the most similar alternative from your competitor.
  • - 6
flag mtxandy (Jun 22, 2013 at 12:02) (Below Threshold)
 You could always just buy the frame/fork combo and build it up yourself.
  • + 18
 That can also be quite expensive too though with individual parts.
  • + 14
 Yeah, it's usually more expensive to build it yourself.
  • + 2
 Saw a 2012 one on here for $2200 XT build, keep your eyes peeled
  • + 2
 How To Make A Bike Cool, by mnorris122: ENVE
  • + 2
 It's way cheaper to build yourself if you have the patience to shop around.
  • + 1
 Or you can pickup a Spot for cheaper. Rode the 2 back to back, and they rode exactly the same, except the Burner handled a touch slower, which explains why he steepened the head on it (old one was slacker than the Spot). Sounds like he plans on discontinuing the Spot, so sounds like he's tweaking the Burner to be as good as that bike.
  • + 1
 Some of you guys are morons. You could easily build a Burner with SLX and decent wheels for under $3,500. If you still don't want to spend that much you should prob buy a used 5.spot for $2k. Probem solved.
  • + 15
 I can't wait until 2104 for the release of thde 380! haha
  • + 2
 If they retain that signature marzocchi plushness, I'm getting one. Kind of annoying that they release it at then END of the season though. Oh well, at least there will be some long term testing reports over the winter before the 2014 season.
  • + 1
 Any pics of the damper unit?
  • + 4
 Look on the bright side, they aren't rush releasing like they did with the 55 in 2008, we all know how that went.
  • + 2
 I don't think anyone liked 2008 Zokes anything. I had a 66 and the bushing play was terrible. Not to mention the creeking noise from the crown.
  • + 2
 @jfyfe *2104
  • + 3
 Definatly looking like a winner, been waiting a long time for marzo to make a comeback. They now need to make a version with a steel spring and the cheaper stanchions whilst keeping the weight a shade under 3kg and a pricetag of around £800 and im in
  • + 1
 I agree jaydmf. I got a 2012 888 rcv for $420 new as a leftover. Thanks to pricepoint. Zokes has always done well with a entry level dual crown at a affordable price. Hopefully they do the same in 2014-15.
  • + 2
 I'm still extremely butthurt the most money ive spent on a fork was a 2008 55 Frown
  • + 1
 Can someone please explain to me, what is the point of having adjustable high and low speed rebound? I thought the rebound speed was controlled by the spring pushing back out, so how can there be high and low speed rebounds? Aren't they all the same? If your weight was still on the suspension and only allowing it to come back slowly, surely you don't need the damping to do that for you?

Please pardon my ignorance.

Can someone explain it to me?
  • + 1
 At high speed some people want a faster rebound to track the ground over the quick hits the suspension takes. And the opposite for slow hits-slower rebound. I'm not positive but, I think rebound speed is valve controlled. The spring is for preload.(not positive,I'm not a engineer.)
  • + 1
 Also, if i'm not mistaken, rebound adjustments are divided in beginning-stroke and ending-stroke ones, not like the compression adjustments. You can set ending-stroke faster in order to extend the fork back faster when compressed fully, in order to have as much travel as possible for the next obstacle. Beginning-stroke is for small obstacles - best put it a little slower in order not to hit your hands while extending back. I think this is well explained by Rock Shox regarding their Vivid 2014 shock. Smile
  • + 1
 So is there a relationship between beginning/end stroke rebound and high/low speed rebound? I mean are they just different terms for the same thing?
  • + 2
 RS just call them beginning/ending stroke to simplify things for those not bothered to understand how it works. The rebound is shimmed, have a read on the article about shimstacks on the homepage for a simple explanation. Basically, LSR is what you have always tuned when there's only one adjuster. It's opening and closing the valving in the piston. HSR is adjusting the pressure on the shimstack which controls the higher speeds mostly created when riding deeper in the travel and hitting big rocks etc. I.e. if you ram fast into big roots/rockgardens you want to tune the HSR to make the fork ride controlled and not throw you forwards or backwards. That's been one of the problems of the current 888, the rebound is only ported(valves), not shimmed AFAIK. Noticeable when hitting big rocks etc and the fork won't rebound fast enough because I prefer a slightly slower rebound on lower speed hits, which results in a bucking forward since the fork is not in ride height for the next rock right after. Can't wait to ride the 380 and Moto next year!
  • + 11
 Mongoose was my first bike...... i never had an issue with it... and it took my first falls even after it was pretty good! I would recomend you Mongoose 100% cheap doesn't mean bad all the time...

plus the bike do what you make her do.... so... who's bad the bike or the rider?
  • + 3
 I love my mongoose, I am forsure buying one of these as my next rig and putting new zocchi stuff on it.
  • + 2
 For the price, Mongoose bikes ride pretty well, but I don't like the online sales deal... as someone mentioned previously, it's a step backwards.
  • + 13
 2014 Is well known in the Chinese calendar as the year of the mountain bike
  • + 10
 'it's wheels have also grown a little, from 26 to 2.75 inches.'

I would say thats more of a reduction, than a growth in wheel size... Razz
  • + 2
 Thanks for the catch
  • + 1
 But they're not REALLY 27.5" so it's less growth than one might be led to believe.
Led to believe... how apropo.
  • + 2
 been measuring 275 wheels as I test bikes and tires, and with 2.2 to 2.35 tires at 32psi. They range from 27.25 to 28 inches OD, so 275 is accurate enough..
  • + 1
 Just do away with the nominal sizing b/s and call them 650b. '26"' wheels aren't really 26" in diameter either.
  • + 1
 I like 650B. but if the comparative wheel sizes are generally expressed in inches, then the correct usage would be 27.5. (26, 27.5 and 29) There are some journalists trying to make an arbitrary change to 27, but really, what is that going to solve? I plan on using both 650B and 275 for a while to facilitate understanding and to help reduce friction until it all settles down.
  • + 3
 Personally I think we should adopt the motocross/car way and use RIM diameter instead of wheel diameter as norm. 24" rims are 20.5in, 26in rims are 22in, 27.5in rims are 23in and 29"/700C are 24.5". It'd make things easier in my humble opinion!
  • + 1
 Brilliant. An existing standard.... but that WILL NEVER be accepted.
  • + 1
 @Orangesicle I agree. Unfortunately we will continue to call them 24"/26"/27.5/29" wheels even though their outside diameters vary widely depending on tire size. Retarded...
  • + 1
 Forgot to mention that 700C aka road wheels are also 680mm in diameter which is about the same as a 2.3x26" DH tire and thus road wheels are 26" as well...
  • + 8
 So the shock shaft on the Moto C2R has been enlarged from 12 to 14mm but the shaft on the 2014 Fox DHX RC4 has been REDUCED to 12.7mm "resulting in decreased friction and increased sensitivity"

...so that's interesting.
  • + 1
 will have to wait and see I think'ies lol
  • + 1
 is the Fox shaft steel or aluminum? I think that would come into play with shaft diameter.
  • + 8
 If fox thinks reducing shafts will reduce friction then why the shit do they run the fattest fork stanchions on the market? Engineers of Pinkbike, please give me some insight. Heh heh shaft.
  • + 2
 Well it's different on a fork - the stanctions are a larger diameter to increase stiffness right? I suppose the increased friction is why they introduced the kashima coating. I guess that's what Fox would say but I'm no expert here.
  • + 3
 forks need to be stiff to take the torsional forces going through them. shocks are isolated from these forces by the frame so they can focus on using a small shaft to reduce friction. thats my guess anyway. also, hehe shaft.
  • - 1
 Friction is not a function of surface area. The only ways to decrease friction is either by a lower coefficient of friction, or by decreasing the normal force exerted on the shaft by the seals. (less pressure on the shaft by the seals)
  • + 2
 @Turbo-Henrik: who did teach you that crap?
and: hrhr, shaft!
  • + 3
 Engineering did.
  • + 1
 @Turbo-Henrik:So then Fox's claims regarding their shaft diameter reduction is marketing BS.
  • + 1
 Probably just makes it cheaper to produce the shock. I dont think you will notice the difference riding anyways. My Kawasaki dirtbike has 14-15mm shaft, and thats 90kg bike with over 300mm travel and 150mm stroke, i wouldnt worry about Fox stepping down to "just" 12.7 mm Smile

If Fox tells it lowers the friction, people buy it. But if they decrease the diameter and also use a new type of seals, the lower friction statement may be true, but its not because of the reduction, its the seals.
  • + 1
 since the contact force has to do with the diameter in this case: yes it does.
i'm completely with you though, i don't think you will feel the difference, and i think as well it's more marketing crap than anything else. but still: technically there is an influence.
  • + 2
 Between a 12 and 14 mm shaft at an ifp pressure of 190 psi the difference is 12 lbs. I guess it's not noticeable. That's just the internal pressure in the shock though, which did at least make the old RC4 (pre kashima) feel pretty firm compared to some other shocks. Kashima and low friction seals will of course make the shock more active as Henrik says, but the shaft diameter is noticed through higher internal pressure which gives a firmer ride, some may mistake this for friction. I noticed a difference when going from a CCDB to an RC4, but that's over 40 lbs difference. My experience is that shocks with low internal pressure (read: ccdb) feels better on low leverage bikes and vice versa.
  • + 7
 Am I the only one who finds it amusing that about a year after their smear campaign against DOT certified helmets for DH use, (huge article posted on PinkBike somewhere) Kali releases a DOT helmet of their own?
  • + 1
 yea man, i spoted that! the original article was from Kali too (I think) baggin on MX lids for DH an now..........
its funny, the kids that tell me my TLD MX lid wont protect me as well as a DH lid "cos i read it on pink bike" Smile
  • + 2
 But Kali did already have a DOT helmet.
  • + 3
 You can't ride a moto on the street or race off road in the US without DOT certification.Kali makes Moto helmets too. Brad laughed at himself and that article when he showed the Shiva helmet. I think he wanted to see if Kali could make a thin, more-flexible helmet pass DOT. Evidently, he managed to unite both schools of thought in helmet safety. The guy must not sleep.
  • + 2
 Kali Makes great Helmets. You wouldn't ride in a XC helmet that wasn't "in-molded" why would you ride a full face that wasn't "composite fusion". Kali's technology makes sense to me.
  • + 1
 Wish they'd made the old TLD D2 that way...every single one of mine needed re-bonding with silicone after a few months!
  • + 4
 Frame sizing should have a more 'standard' definition of what is small, what's large etc.

Large Mongoose Boot'R wheelbase: 114cm
Large GT Fury (2014) wheelbase: 125 cm

edit: i think those specs of boot'r are wrong. chainstay length: 377 mm. This can't be true.
  • + 1
 I sure hope those numbers are wrong! That would mean that my large Mongoose Khyber Elite AM frame has a longer wheelbase then their DH offering?

As far as I'm concerned, a medium Boot'r must have a pretty cramped cockpit for a 5'7" to 5'10" rider.
  • + 2
 wheelbase is one of the least relevant numbers to look at as far as fit is concerned... things like standover, top tube length, reach, etc. are what matter for sizing purposes. Having no idea about how either of those bikes fit, it's entirely possible they fit identically and the Fury is just a slacker/longer bike.
  • + 1
 @ironxcross: You're right! My comment is poorly worded / put together.

And looking closer at the specs, it does seem that the large Boot'r should actually have a roomier cockpit then my large Khyber.

But (and here is where my angst is) I believe the shorter wheel base is dated.
  • + 1
 You would have a lot of trouble finding anyone willing to argue that the Boot'r is not out dated... hah. I would so much rather spend that money on a nicer bike that has been used for a season than a brand new mongoose.
  • + 1
 @ironxcross: Yeah man, I'm with ya. I do like the Freedrive system and love the gnarly look of the bike. But oh well..... I'll most likely get a new Fury at the earliest opportunity.
  • + 4
 I dont see what all the hate on the 'goose is about but it looks sick and i would consider one for a first dh bike. All the hate on freedrive/I-drive is just dumb anyone who has ridden one knows how much that helps pedaling on a dh bike. That zocchi suspension looks sick too, still holding on to an italian 06 z1 fr sl. Wish they would adopt the bladder like fox and rockshox.
  • + 6
 Gonna start saving for a 380. Looks sweet and nearly a kilo lighter than my 2013 888CR!
  • + 6
 Hates Prime Sport brakes ? hhaha
  • + 5
 I hope the next thing Marzocchi will work on is a 180mm single crown with C2R2 in Ti
  • + 3
 foreal. everyone loves the 66 Evo Ti for its plushness and reliability, and its weight smashes the Totem and 36. That Boz is about the only thing along the lines of weight at 180mm right now and i've never actually seen one in person yet. i dunno why they stopped the 66. i was considering a used one for my next build up instead of my Lyrik RC2DH, a new version would be cool though.
  • + 2
 Couldn't be more happy than with my 55.
  • + 2
 That Moongoose frame looked really stale in 2004. This is a joke... They try to fling that thing with bling parts at a very low price through lowend overprice inetdealers in Europe like Bikester. Not seen one on the trails yet. Great contrast. Onemanshow Turner does incredible frames over and over again. Moongoose - Bigfail. Corporate impotency at its best.
  • + 2
 Watch out DVO! It looks like marzocchi are right behind you with the moto shock! The option of customers being able to tune the shock is similar and even executed in the same way. Add to that the fact that the shock is incredibly light... I think marzocchi won this time.
  • + 5
 Whether or not DVO takes off, it looks like they have helped kick some of the other companies into action...
  • + 5
 tough call. the bladder system in the DVO is pretty slick.
  • + 2
 ^^Agreed, bladder is always the better solution. Wish more companies would go that route, all but eliminates any stiction.
  • + 1
 "Turner puts the weight of the frame, ready to go with a Fox CTD shock, between 5.7 and 6.1 pounds ( 2.6 kg - 2.77 kg), depending upon frame size"
To clarify - these weights would be for the FLUX. The Burner is 6.8 to 7.6 depending on frame size (according to TurnerBikes.com).
The Burner looks very nice, but I'd be sticking a 50mm stem on along with a with wide bar 760mm bar. Perfect then.
  • + 2
 Fixed: Dave T gave gave me the weights -but he may of had a brain fade at altitude. HA!
  • + 2
 I'm liking that Kali skate helmet. Looks clean, passes the stick-beating test and doesn't cost too too much. If anyone around here sold them I would be tempted to go buy one this weekend.
  • + 1
 Sorry, but I'm just not buying the idea of Marzocchi's so-called 'new' DH fork. The differences between it and the 888 seem minimal. OK they've trimmed a little bit of weight, but nickel coatings, butted stanchions and no aluminium threads - are not new
  • + 1
 I'm not super into new DH tech, but isn't the big new thing air sprung forks? Shouldn't they do that?
  • + 3
 I don't want the DVO that badly anymore.... I'm way more stoked for marz! started on a 888(good) and a roco(not so good) and can't wait for an evolution of them
  • + 1
 I've seen the new Marzocchi 320 LCR cross country fork released on another cycling site from PressCamp 2013, are there any other single crown goodies coming? 350 C2R2 to replace the 55 RC3? Air Moto shock for Enduro use?
  • + 2
 Marzochi is working on an enduro fork, but is is not ready yet. I will be getting a 320 LCR fork for testing soon, so I left it out.
I made a gallery for you of the 320 fork:
www.pinkbike.com/u/richardcunningham/album/Marzocchi-2014
  • + 1
 Thanks RC, I feel special now! Can you say if the new enduro fork will be available in all sizes 26/27.5/29, or only select ones?
  • + 2
 steeper hta and higher bb? whoever dave turner is listening to needs to shut the f*ck up
  • + 1
 Marzocchi... here is a blank cheque with my signature on it. Write down any amount on this piece of paper and I will pay it sir!
  • + 1
 the goose is not the best bike out there by far but if you have just started out like me then plenty bike for your skill level.
  • + 3
 Hope that mongoose comes to the uk!
  • + 13
 Hope more companies jump on the entry-level complete bike bandwagon! That's one of the biggest barriers keeping people out of mtbing, I feel.
  • + 1
 If people only knew about the used bike market they would be able to get a much better bike for the same price as the mongoose. But still good to see a nice looking dh bike for that price.
  • + 1
 ^ Yeah that's true but when you know nothing about bikes, buying a used one is extremely intimidating and it is strange how not many people first look at used bikes as an option but instead go right into bike shops/shop online.
  • + 0
 I will always buy used , most people don't have $3000 or way more to spend on a bike
Almost every part on a big bike is able to be rebuild so ill gladly take last years leftovers
  • + 2
 My arguement is that used bikes are still priced based on the new price so its win win both for buying new and used
  • + 4
 Given that the Mongoose will probably cost the same in pounds as it does in dollars, and looking at what I can get from Y.T. or Canyon for very similar money, they can keep it.
  • + 1
 In the us we dont have as many options, only Airborne Bicycles as far as i know wish yt and canyon would hop over the pond
  • + 1
 US direct sale brands would really struggle to compete with the direct sale Euro brands over here, just because of delivery costs, import duty and VAT. It might be the same for the likes of Y.T. and Canyon over there.
  • - 1
 Zocchi goodness, especially that shock, Daves Burner in white looks good, but something about that black one like most modern Turners looks weird too long in the head tube, but that Flux god dam thats ugly, thats a real backward step, I don't know if Turner is trying to save costs, but that looks like the evolution of Ellsworth, outdated all Turners ride nice, but things do change, pity Turner haven't followed the Csar on new models, even in alloy with straight tubes that flux with the Csar profile would have been a stunner and a lower cost option, course I wonder where this frame is made. As for Daves comments on 26" wheels going away it will decrease due to manufactures like him dropping models continuously, it wont disappear just like steel and hardtails didnt disappear, think he said they would die a long time ago too and the death of freeride bikes/160mm bikes like the RFX, both of which I see plenty of new bikes on the trails regularly, though the RFX is now like the dodo, and we will choose another brand your loss Turner.
  • + 1
 Wrong wrong and.......wrong
  • + 1
 All you guys complaining about how a bike looks? Seriously? Sound like a bunch of little biatches.
  • - 1
 Props to Mongoose for putting a 2600$ complete bike available to the public. I think the big names in the industry are overpriced if I compare to what they had 3-4 years ago. Back in the days for 6k you had top of the line bike and now you have to pay 10k for the same level bike.
  • + 1
 Big brands went over the top, built in obsolescence puts me off. I built myself a very exclusive bike with a handmade US-frame and tough parts for much much less than 10k. Low BB, slack angles and a great deal of adjustability with a lot of design and fabrication knowhow behind it. There is nothing that Giant, Spec Moongoose and the other PRC marketing outlets could offer me. 2.6k for that Moongoose is way overpriced. This is a 50 USD bottom of the barrel catalog frame.
  • + 0
 that fork costs almost as much as that bike. I trust mongoose didn't cut some cost saving corners and that Marz's new fork comes with some fancy new gadgets. 2014 is gonna be a great year and i can already tell.
  • - 2
 Turners sure have gotten BUTT ugly... Yuk. Lovin the Marzo Stuff, now give us a semi-light, STIFF, Air-sprung 36mm (minimum) stanch'd Fork with a 20mm axle that fits 650B and I'll buy it, TODAY. I'm not going near Fox anything till they pull their heads out of their asses and even then I may never use their crap again.
  • + 2
 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' - I really like the look of the Turners, to me they have an elegant 'function over form' look about them with all the small but important details implemented perfectly. Would happily buy one... if DT ever releases the RFX.
  • + 0
 Certainly... To me, they're butt ugly (and I like my old boxy, "purpose built" Toyotas, I think it's he elevated CS on the Turner I dislike so much, looks too much like an old Nishiki Alien frame) , and suspension wise I prefer Horst-linked bikes. A Norco Range Carbon ill look great AND ride well so I'd simply not consider the Turners (they are very well made though). I will say this though, the rear wheel looks to be about as simple to remove as is possible on a bike with a chain.
  • + 1
 The moongose Looks like my mondraker Plunder,so they did something wrong for sure
  • + 0
 "...the Turner Burner was designed to be the do-it-all trailbike. The new Burner greatly expands that ..."
How, exactly, does one expand on do-it-all?
  • + 1
 It's pretty cool Mongoose has NOS 1996 DH bikes for cheap. Oh wait.......................
  • + 1
 Why just low speed rebound? The dbl has h/l compression AND rebound i think. Do high end shocks not need both.
  • + 1
 Is MARZ makeing a new air shock for 2014 ??
  • + 1
 the moto shock looks like a ccdb
  • + 1
 hmm those new marzocchi look ugly 2012s and 2013s look loads better
  • + 1
 Mongoose are ugly like a mouse trap
  • + 0
 The idea of buying direct is catching on it seems. Its a massive push toward more afford
  • + 1
 Affordable stuff. I'm currently having a nightmare with distributers so dealling direct with the organ grinder seems like a great idea. Also good to see some new stuff from marzocchi. I reckon they'll be my next fork of choice.
  • + 1
 Mongoose comes back with a-crockofshit-
  • + 1
 Yes! Going to Park City and Canyons next week!!!
  • + 1
 Kali knocking out some nice lids. Keep up the good work.
  • + 1
 ya hopefully they dont ad thoes gay rasta graphics on itthis year
  • + 1
 what is the name of the bike park?
  • + 0
 That mongoos looks pretty sweet but dod they revise the geometry to modern standards? That frame design is pretty old.
  • + 1
 I ride an '11 boot'r foreman, they are a great bike
  • + 1
 Turner is wrong. It should be (anyway) proven wrong about the wheels...
  • + 0
 68 degrees on a flux? really?
  • + 0
 Shiny new paint job, same shitty old mongoose black diamond.
  • + 0
 cant wait to buy a marzocchi 380 to replace my dorado
  • + 0
 That Burner is oozing with enduro awesomeness
  • + 0
 this knew moto shock is going to go far!
  • + 2
 Yeah in coolness
  • + 0
 Kali FF.... Mongoose.... for a moment i thought it's fugly-friday!
  • + 2
 You're not alone, that Mongoose is fugly as f*ck... and really a Domain R??? I'd rather buy the Aurum 2 (even for 1400 MORE) ANY day. better frame (possibly THE best DH frame on the market right now), better spec, better looking... Just plain BETTER. You could spend WAY more then 1400 just getting the Mongoose to the same place as the Norco. Hell for the same money you could buy a similarly (better in many places) spec'd Aurum 3 and you've still got the much better frame plus a better rear-shock. Glad Mongoose is back in the game, they've been around for a long time and someone will really like their bikes but it's not gonna be me...
  • - 3
 2795 gramms with a Ti spring for a 40kg rider ... And you need to buy stiffer spring for 250 USD
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