What's Up at Hayes, Manitou and Answer?

May 1, 2012 at 2:03
by Richard Cunningham  
Hayes is the parent company for Sun/Ringle' wheelgoods, Answer components, and Manitou suspension, so there is always something cooking in their kitchen. PB got a sneak peek at some sweet new wheels from Sun/Ringle', a run-through on the Hayes 'Crosshair' micro-adjust brake caliper system, and an explanation of why Answer's outlandish looking 20 20 handlebars make good sense. We promised not to tell about the wheels until a bit later, but the rest was open season.

Hexlock Explained

Manitou developed a super-fast 15QR through axle release system called 'Hexlock.' For those not up to speed, Manitou owns a patent on a hexagonal though-axle and dropout interface. The hex prevents any rotation between the axle and fork lowers, which reportedly increases the fork's torsional stiffness dramatically. The hexagonal interface, however, prevents the use of screw-in quick release axles like the Maxle design, so Manitou developed its own QR system.

Tower 29er fork and Hexlock QR15 axle
(Clockwise) Manitou's Tower Pro 29er fork is designed for XC/Trail and features travel up to 140 millimeters as well as the new Hexlock 15-millimeter quick release axle system. The Hexlock axle in place reveals the adjustment dial between the release lever and right fork dropout. The steel T-shaped locking mechanism twists inside the hollow hexagonal-tipped through-axle. A look down the left dropout shows the slot that engages the "T" on the Hexlock axle.

Flip the Hexlock lever open and give it a twist and the axle pulls out of the fork. The end of the Hexlock axle engages into the left dropout with a T-shaped key that only requires one half turn of the quick release to lock into place. Slide the axle in, twist the quick release lever one half turn, snap it shut and the deed is done. The QR lever always indexes in the same spot and a knurled dial inboard of the lever adjusts the closing force of the mechanism. The Hexlock shaft must be indexed (a warning printed in white letters makes it hard to miss) in the hexagonal dropouts correctly before the locking mech will work, but once you get the hang of it, Manitou's new QR system is mighty fast.

The Return of the Mustache Handlebar

Take two pieces of straight handlebar tubing, one in each hand. Close your eyes and put your hands in front of you where you believe you should be steering your bike. Hold position, open your eyes and your hands will be grasping the tubes at about 18-degrees, with a slight downturn. Answer's 20 20 handlebar emulates the natural ergonomics of your hands and wrist to reduce fatigue over long distance rides. Co-designed by 24-hour solo racer Evan Plews, the 20 20's Mustache bend does what it was intended to do in the 1800s when it first gained popularity: provide a comfortable sweep-back, without placing the rider's hands behind the stem. The 20 20's design keeps the grips in roughly the same place in relation to the stem as the standard, 5- or 8-degree-sweep bar.

20 20 mustache handlebar
Answer's 20 20 handlebar provides almost 20 degrees of sweep-back comfort without moving the grips beyond where a conventional bar would place them in relation to the stem.


Easy-Adjust Brake Calipers

The story goes that one of Hayes' engineers thought up the Crosshair idea, got out of his chair, grabbed a caliper and went to the machine shop where he drilled and threaded two holes in the caliper's mounting tabs. He returned with the finished product - two Allen set-screws that lever against the caliper's mounting screws. Hayes immediately adopted the improvement, which makes perfect rotor alignments possible in less than a minute in most cases. Cross hair makes its debut on Hayes' Prime disc brake lineup and after seeing it in action, we wondered why we didn't think of it. Simple is always best.

Prime Comp Brake
Hayes Prime Comp brakeset looks sharp with its radial master cylinder and flush reach-adjuster in the lever blade. Hayes developed a tapered piston that eliminates the need for seal-eating bypass ports inside the master cylinder, which makes the pad contact point very consistent. Note the Allen set-screws in the Crosshailr caliper mounts.

Prime caliper Crosshair adjust system
The Hayes Prime caliper with its Crosshair adjustment screws (left). Push the brake pads against the rotor, snug up the caliper mounting bolts. Spin the wheels and then and use an Allen wrench to move the caliper away from the rotor until the pads stop rubbing. Tighten mounting screws. Done.

Want more info? Keep up with Hayes' latest burst of innovation on the Hayes Component website and we'll get back to you on the new Sun Ringle' wheels as soon as we get a set on our test bikes.

Author Info:
RichardCunningham avatar

Member since Mar 23, 2011
974 articles

113 Comments
  • 148 3
 Now that brake alignment idea from hayes is innovation!! Such a good idea.
  • 70 1
 Why hasn't someone done it yet? I piss around for days trying to get it to stop rubbing. Even the slightest rub will temper me. I pay hundreds for brakes and they still rub? Bull!!! Hayes, I hope these work, cause if so, they're going to get you guys back in the market as a respected company Smile
  • 32 17
 Well you don't even need those brakes to make sure of the good alignment. Just put your brakes on your bike without tighten it so it can move a bit, they press your brake lever, and while you're pressing your brake lever just tighten the bolts up. Then ride Smile
  • 19 1
 Yea, good advice. But the brake hose and the forces it creates upon the brake caliper have always prevented me to align my caliper correctly this way... Great innovation, Hayes!
  • 51 2
 Freakin hell, that's brilliant Hayes! Thank you! They should get some award for that! Look industry - learn from that! THAT DOES CHANGE MTBers LIFE! and it doesn't involve a new diameter, 9 more cables, 100k worth CNC forms for composite frames and rims, you don't even need to write a press release - anyone can see the benefit right away!
  • 8 0
 squeezing brake lever when screws loose not allways helps. Personally i use a lamp and patience to align it properly. Hayes come with really good idea!
  • 3 0
 sounds like awkward cable routing for tidli, however if you keep the brake lever on when you clamp up it should theoretically couteract the cable postioning problem.

thinking more abou this idea from hayes and the one thing it definitely is , is fool proof 100% satisfaction that its gonna work...unless you have a bent rotor
  • 6 3
 nice granny bars .....
  • 5 40
flag melonhead1145 (May 8, 2012 at 3:23) (Below Threshold)
 Avid has had a system like this for years. Its called Tri-Allign or something, basically what you do is undo the bolts connecting the caliper to the adapter, squeeze the brake, and then tighten up the bolts while still holding the brake.
  • 31 2
 .....and it sucks!
  • 5 16
flag theskidkid (May 8, 2012 at 3:45) (Below Threshold)
 Too bad Hayes suck to bleed
  • 6 9
 They did something like that on the old sole's
  • 16 2
 The main problem with the lever squeeze technique is your pucks need to have exactly equal amount of movement, which 99% of riders' don't. Also, Tri-Align is just there so Avid can get away with poor manufacturing tolerances. More of this please Hayes!
  • 10 0
 That caliper adjustment design just blew my mind. This is the kind of thing we need to focus on. Brillant. Just don't go mounting a handlebar control for the calipers and we are all set.
  • 6 1
 The biggest reason the squeeze lever and tighten doesn't work all the time is the slight variance in the rotor. Even a brand new rotor, especially an Avid rotor, is slightly out of true and when centering the caliper you want to "split the difference" so to speak. So it with the Avid method, where you squeeze and tighten, the caliper is centered perfectlyon one spot in the rotor, but not another. Add in the fact that it also relys on the pistons moving the EXACT same amount when the lever is squeezed and this method is only adequate. Kudos Hayes.
  • 5 1
 personally, I never have a problem setting up brakes so they dont rub (minus avid because sometimes they come with too much oil in) . Its not hard to just look where the caliper is compared to the rotor and move it over a smidge if its catching or straighten the rotor, I dont see the need for this allignment feature myself.
  • 2 0
 its a simple concept like, any engineerey person could do this...
  • 2 0
 Then why hasnt it been done before now....? Sure it's a simple concept but there are plenty of simple concepts that haven't yet been applied to existing products to make them better.
  • 7 6
 meh, I think this is a marmite design, you either love it and think its great, or think its pointless and unneccasary.
  • 8 1
 bendy, I know what you are saying, and most the time it goes pretty smooth. But really? Never had an issue? You never spent ten minutes aligning a caliper? This could make it a trouble free 30 second adjustment.
  • 5 7
 never on hydraulic brakes, except once where this dudes caliper was bent and refused to buy a new one. even on crappy cable brakes its only a 1 min job to allign the calliper.
  • 2 0
 The way I adjust my brake caliper, loosen the mounting bolts, and just spin the wheel and slowly start applying pressure to the brake lever, and it basically self alligns from there, do that a couple times to make sure it's alligned right, and then tighten the bolts. It works for me
  • 2 0
 why is potthead getting negative props?? I had the old Sole brake system on my '05 Giant Trance. The system is/was similar to what you are seeing now. The only part of that brake system that actually worked good was the pad adjustment. This is just a refinement of that old design.
  • 1 0
 It probubly has been though of and done before aleksulmer...who would publisise someone making a hole with a tap in the side of their capiler...
  • 3 4
 Can someone explain to me what hayes did exactly? I didn't understand it in the article. Cheers!
  • 3 1
 really? the little screws move your brake caliper from right to left while they're slightly tight, meaning easier fine tuning of you disc/pad alignment.
  • 6 0
 you could easily do a diy job like this with a vice, drill, pedal pins and an M3 tap
  • 3 1
 i like the bars
  • 2 2
 I have never ever had any problem aligning my brakes, and it never takes more than 30 seconds per brake, just pull the brake and tighten the 2 bolts. Seems to be a problem for most though so maybe hayes are onto a winner
  • 4 0
 "I'm soooo stoked on these setscrews"
  • 1 0
 In response to potthead and lostinsolitary, The Hayes Sole brake is nothing like this. The sole brake actually has a dummy piston, I say that meeaning there is not brake fluid behind it, only the piston on the opposing side moves. That dummy piston is adjustable in referance to the caliper itself. Which is neccessary because of the way that brake works, you adjust that piston so the pad is as close to the rotor as possible and the other side does all the work when you pull the lever. Its a very economical brake to put it nicely. This is 100% different. This is a way of aligning the whole caliper assy. in referance to the rotor. Not just a pad adjustment.
  • 4 1
 why not just buy AVID BB7's
  • 2 1
 because avid brakes suck
  • 2 1
 Mah, I just got Elixir Rs - not that bad, they've learned their lesson since Juicy and first Codes which I think were terrible, I'm happy I bought Hayes MAG HD back then. I'm still to find something that will beat 4pot Saints though!
  • 2 0
 hopes
  • 1 0
 which hopes? I tried M4 Monos from few years back and well... decent but not so special comapring to Saints where you get plenty of power under great control. Though whichever of my brakes go to shit I will buy Hopes as next brakes as I'm only into Made in EU stuff. Huge huuuuge props for Hope for that!
  • 1 0
 im running Tech V2's, an ive never used saint to be honest! but, my hopes are the best ive ever used. PLENTY of power so much that ive had to wind the bite point out to stop me using to much brake!! (ive heard this about saints too) thing is.. its efortless power, soo light at the lever
  • 1 0
 could they just take out the oval hole together on the caliper? I know it most likely wouldn't work but id assume adapter to disc distance would be the same on all frames, once again just food for thought if bike companies did this... :braces to be neg propped:
  • 8 0
 P.S the setup screw idea is one of the best things to happen to brake setup in a long long time in my opinion. Fair Play Hayes
  • 5 0
 Please!!!!! A new 160mm fork!!!!!!!!! My Nixon's are rad, but dated... Same TPC+ damper and MARS spring! Let's do it, fast track that thing! No flipping 15mm axles though...
  • 3 1
 When i align my brakes all i do is loosen the bolts and clamp down on the rotor then tighten the bolts and they don't rub at all after that because they are perfectly aligned with my rotors. I don't understand why its so hard unless someone gives me reasons why not to do that? They work flawlessly
  • 3 1
 i think it's funny how people like melonhead, theskidkid, and potthead are getting neg props. They are illustrating a famiar thing with something new. Why not explain the difference ((one of) a forum's purpose(s), I thought) and show why the new feature is different.

I personally think it's great, and instead of going to the bike shop and spending hunreds of $ on new brakes that I don't really like, I'm going to the drill press and tapping my slx's with the same set screw. Wish there was a USA company that made brakes, but I give lots of props to shimano for using mineral oil in their brakes!!! That's an improvement in gear that is good for mother earth, who we every day suckle at her teet for sweet sweet adrenaline, that is most important to me.....and the breaking power is unmatched with the "ice" rotors......but anyway.....

y the neg props to someone not really being an a**hole???
  • 2 0
 Love those Hayes brakes 100% the next upgrade for my bike. More companies should be looking at these types of solutions to problems rather than churning out the same junk thats now supposedly "lighter and stronger" than last years.
  • 4 2
 Wow, hate to be cynical:

How does "the fastest quick-release through-axle in the world" compare to Suntour's Q Loc system?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jks8YjSM1E

"The return of the Mustache handlebar"? Aren't those currently called "alt" bars, and as people are pointing out, above, haven't others like On One, Radley, and Origin8 been making alt bars for quite some time?

Oh, I get the biggest kick out of "Simple is always best," when talking about Hayes brakes. The Crosshair system looks great, but their pad contact adjustment poppet cam has got to be the most complicated turnoff of the decade.
  • 1 0
 I'm sure some fork designer will utlimately go in the footsteps of Microsoft with treating their Offfice package users like retards providing them with "idiot proof" solutions. They will make a system where you just slide in the axle and it locks itself on some trigger, then to release you just press a button on the other side.

I do miss the old HEXlock with 4x4mm bolts - it was the best thing ever.
  • 1 0
 Dorado still has the hexlock with 4 bolts
  • 2 0
 Now close your eyes and imagine hucking your bike forward off a drop. Open your eyes and look at the position of your hands. That's why mustache bars are only good for long hauls or leisurely strolls among other reasons - handling.
  • 2 0
 Where does it say they are for DH and freeriding, again?
  • 1 0
 It was only an observation. I kind of liked the close your eyes bit in their description and it occurred to me why they don't use them in other disciplines. Answer being, you don't usually have your hands in that position unless are planning on sitting tight for a while. Now what was the point of your comment? Just out for a casual troll in the park, I suppose.
  • 6 1
 HEY! Great 160/180 freeride fork there! The one I am not seeing :/
  • 3 0
 the dorado can be adjusted to 180, but yeah it seams like they are missing a niche here
  • 1 0
 I talked to the Hayes guys at Sea Otter this year and a 160 fork is in the works they said. No timeline and they aren't hyping it up until its ready. Talked to the Zack guy there, he actaully does some of the Tech Tuesdays here on PB.
  • 5 4
 yeah its a pretty neat idea but i have always used the tried and tested method of loosely bolting the caliper on, pressing the brake lever to lock the caliper on to the disc, therefore perfectly aligning it to the disc (and taking into account any issues with siezed/sticky pistons) and then nipping the bolts up whilst the lever is still locked. perfect every time and takes less than a minute to do and only one tool being used as well
  • 5 1
 Hey Hayes, did you guys fix that the bleed nipple that the syringe blows off as soon as you pressurize the brake? p.s. how did that ever make it past R&D?
  • 1 0
 lol, yes remember that fricken issue very well, as dot 5.1 squirts everywhere and a mass panic to clean it up before it ruined my bikes paint job
  • 1 0
 I was looking at my Raleigh from the early 70's the other day and started musing. "Bars already went high, they can't go much wider, and I don't see a return to narrow and flat. That kind of leaves mustache." Interesting to see it in production. It'll be interesting to see how Answer dealt with the handling characteristics that usually go with Mustache bars.
  • 1 0
 How is Cross-hair a gimmick? It's an adjustment method that helps every mountain biker on this planet. A gimmick would be if they put a screw on 3 sides, and added a remote. This is innovation, and it's exactly what this industry needs. Not more stupid dials to adjust pads or that lame tri-align system that Avid has (I have Code's and am seriously thinking of switching to Hayes' 4 piston brakes, especially assuming they move this Cross-Hair design over to all their models.)
  • 1 0
 Those bars look pretty sweet as I consider an entry to BC Bike Race for 2013. I wouldn't run those brakes again, though, as I never felt they were powerful enough. I weight 220# on the bike so lighter riders will probably take to them just fine.
  • 1 0
 I've got Hope brakes on all my bikes because maintenance is a complete non-issue. I've never had this problem. The un-tighten, squeeze, tighten method has worked every time for me. A friend of mine has Avid Elixirs.. He has grief from them all the time..
  • 1 0
 Not to rain on every ones parade but Avid hasn't really been a stellar brake lately. I use to love the feel of Hayes, so positive, then i bought a set of el camino, fucking garbage! Now i have magura on my freeride bike, but I'd give these a try if they can give me that good old hayes feel, and work, that's always a plus.
  • 2 0
 x2 on hayes for the brake alignment idea kind tempted to go drill the side of my calipers to install some small set screws just copy that idea lol
  • 1 1
 Those bars look pretty sweet as I consider BC Bike Race for next year. The brakes, though, haven't lived up to my expectations. I ran the 2011s on my XC whip and they just never felt powerful enough as I am about 220# on the bike. And alignment was finicky on those as well - the rear rotor would mysteriously begin to drag mid-ride while on flat doubletrack, or while out in town doing errands. (As in heat/use was not an issue.) Weird.
Lighter riders will probably fare just fine though as far as braking power.
  • 1 1
 Imo hayes suck i had hayes 9 brakes from new and they were awful in the wet although good in the dry also hayes customer service sucks i broke the front caliper in a 1 on 1 with a rock but i email hayes atleast three seperate times so il stick with my old saints
  • 2 0
 Wow that alignment set up is the coolest thing ive seen in a while. Right on hayes!
  • 2 0
 IDK, my XT took less than a few seconds to set up w/ no tiny set screws to mess with.
  • 2 0
 The shimano's seem the easiest if everything is dialed but AVIDs are better if the tabs are off alignment. But I hate aligning BB5s, hard to get no rub cause the pads don't sit tight.
  • 2 0
 Those "Allen set-screws in the Crosshailr calliper mounts" are absolute genius!
  • 1 0
 My old mechanical discs had a similar function to the hayes to adjust pad contact, such a great idea!!!

Also, anyone notice how crazy long the stem is on that bike?
  • 1 0
 Brake alignment was not a problem 10+ years ago, with Magura's floating caliper and disk..... I dont feel this is a good development IMHO. Hope it works
  • 1 0
 Seems they are spending a lot of time not producing a 6 inch trail fork. Missing out on a big demand here HBG. I don't get it.
  • 1 0
 Just spin the wheel when tightening the bolts. Done. Works every time while wheel is spinning it automatically lines up. Watch your fingers in the spokes..
  • 1 0
 Theres a groove on hope calipers to line the disk up correctly to the caliper... it literally takes 10 seconds?
  • 2 0
 I will be drilling and taping my calipers...thanks for the idea.
  • 2 1
 lol, i thought this, but the majority of people dont have their own set of taps, and even if given some, wouldnt know how to use them.
  • 1 0
 No brake beats hope all round. Looks, build quality, reliability and after sales service... Can't beat em!
  • 1 0
 Love the breakes and bars, but the bars are weird though...
  • 1 0
 Love my Prime Pros. Best brakes I have ridden to date.
  • 1 0
 Thank you Hayes!!! I'll order a set with my next rig...
  • 1 0
 One more thing... the grips are most certainly not in the same place.
  • 1 0
 lets hope it works.
  • 3 2
 NO THANKS!
  • 1 0
 the bars are gross
  • 4 7
 the set screws will only make the PM mount weaker.. imo.. and the top prime on the bike is not the same as in the picture below..
  • 3 1
 the bottom two photos are of the new prime expert and the top photo is the prime comp, both have the new set screw postion setup so cant see your problem with the photos ? Like you though i'm not too sure how much the screws will weaken the mounting point, perhaps they should make them thicker around these points .
  • 4 0
 Well, yeah... the drilled holes will make it weaker. Enough for failing? I don't know. However, I can almost see coming a few cracked tabs when people overtorque the caliper mounting bolts.

That said... I think it's a brilliant idea. If the caliper tabs were thicker, that'd be nice.

Great for Manitou... they have already the axle for the new 160mm fork. Now they only need the rest of it!
  • 2 0
 I doubt the caliper mounting tabs would crack considering the diameter of the bolt is so small that the threads would likely be stripped or the allen key would snap haha.
  • 1 2
 Wanna try those bars! The might be the new widebar
  • 3 0
 Go for it. However, I think there's a reason you don't see that much sweep-back for BMX, motocross, or aggressive mountain bikers. Maybe good for extra long rides on non-technical terrain, but I wouldn't want them for much else.That position just seems to compromise power and control.
  • 3 0
 Thats what i was thinking, I feel like i would sacrifice a lot of control because of the shape.
  • 1 0
 Waki, try 'em now - just get a set of Mary bars made by On One. I can't see much difference. The Mary bars have been around for yonks.

www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/HBOOMA/on_one_mary_handlebar

I've tried the Mary bars and they are very comfy... but not for me - I likes me my widish DH bars, even for XC. My riding buddy in the States loves his, but he got used to them. He is a very good technical rider - I think everyone from Colorado is.
  • 4 0
 If they don't work out you could always sell them to the old lady down the road for her trike.
  • 2 0
 Hehe woodsroller, I actualy thought of my mom's bike Big Grin

Should go well with my upcoming hardtail design - it will be a 29-650Ber. 29" wheel up front, 650B in the back, 15mm + 142x12 axles in hubs, and 35mm handlebars with 1 1/4 fork. Stem with direct attach for Garmin GPS is a must... I also plan to design a handlebar with direct mounts for all sorts of dials from FOX as well as lamps and GoPro.

No seriously if I met a bloke on such bars in the woods, I'll ask him to let me try his bike.
  • 4 0
 Exactly, my mom's bike had very similar bars. She did rip up the hood though.
  • 1 0
 I've had a set of carbon swept bars like that for a while - Radley carnagies - and they are great for long endurance rides (what the answers are designed for). But I'm supprised that PB posts info on stuff like this though as 99% of its users are more Hardcore based riders who'll just slag it off without appreciating the use.
  • 2 0
 @monkeyboy: I for one am glad that a variety of gear is posted here. I ride park but I also throw myself into XC races on the rare occasion.
  • 3 0
 @sngltrkmnd, good for you - its just that on PB all xc stuff gets slagged off for no reason.
  • 2 0
 yeah, lots of stuff gets slagged, and the only thing I have seen so far really deserving of our ire was that stupid Humvee-inspired tire-pressure system from Sea Otter. Razz
  • 2 0
 buehehe, sngltrkmnd - that was special indeed, way to de-beige yourself
  • 1 0
 I ride mostly XC trails and do it with Answer bars, but not these. I have no problem with XC stuff at all, but for me bars with this much sweep-back are just not well suited for most off-road terrain. Put your hands in the position of a DH/AM bar and note how you are naturally in an athletic position. Now roll your hands into the position of these bars and you will find your elbows rolling inward to a more relaxed position. Relaxed can be synonymous with vulnerable when nature is dictating the terrain. Just an opinion, but in the past two decades I have seen a lot of trends come and go. I dug out an old pair of bars from 1991 the other day and what a surprise - they looked like most of the bars that are on the market today with minimal rise and minimal sweep.
  • 1 0
 Definitely not designed for AM/FR/DH. For a 60-100km day in the saddle on an endurance/off-road rando event, I can see that this would work well.

And as far as "what's old is new again" I had a good chuckle when I realized that the flat bar trend for big bikes so closely matched the bars I was running 20 years ago, too. (Though today's bars are significantly wider!)
  • 3 5
 Old Hayes = good
New Hayes = bad

I will never be able to get past the fact that they actually released the El Caminos.
  • 5 1
 So the El Caminos fall under your 'new hayes' impression? Sir, I think you should probably re-evaluate that.
  • 2 2
 Anything newer than the HFX series is new to me.
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