Pinkbike Poll: If Cost Were No Object...

Mar 14, 2014 at 1:47
by Richard Cunningham  
Legends abound among cyclists about the advantages of one material over the next. Hyperbole passed from one generation to the next about the magic feel of steel, the superiority of titanium, the rigidity of aluminum and the lightness of carbon persists in the minds of rank and file riders as hard fact. The reality, if there is a way to establish a point from which "reality" can be judged in the bicycle industry, is that materials and the methods used to manufacture things from them are constantly evolving. What was bad yesterday may very well be good today.

Cannondale Claymore - side shot

Gary Klein introduced the proper use of aluminum for making bicycle frames, but it was Cannondale that dragged the bicycle world, kicking and screaming, into the aluminum age. Few, if any bike makers have produced an aluminum-framed bike that could outperform Bethel's best. (Claymore, AM/Freeride bike)



The structural use of titanium, for instance, was banned from motorcycle racing in the early 1980s because parts were breaking left and right. Today, that ban still holds, but it shouldn't. Titanium is well understood now, and is used where only metal will do and where reliability is an absolute. The compressor fans in commercial jet engines come to mind, but a 29er hardtail frame could make that argument as well.

Spank Oozy Pedal

Mountain bike riders will happily stand on two ten millimeter titanium pedal axles and huck to flat. (Spank Oozy pedal - aluminum body, Ti Axle: 300g)



About the same time that titanium was banned from moto racing, aluminum, the most ubiquitous material in the modern bicycle, was being soundly trounced by both bike makers and the press as unfit for making bicycle frames and forks because of its lack of stiffness and short fatigue life. Today it is considered the safest material from which to construct its most critical components: the fork steerer, crown and stanchions; its bottom bracket axle, the hub axles, and the handlebar and frame. Magnesium, the metal used to make most fork sliders, survived a similar beating from naysayers.

Champery Switzerland - 1 September 2011 during the UCI Mountain Bike World Championships in Champery Switzerland. Photo by Gary Perkin

Santa Cruz was quick to switch to carbon for its V10 DH racer after its carbon trailbikes blew away their aluminum counterparts in weight, strength and reliability.



And now carbon has evolved beyond the angry mob's doomsday predictions. Case by case, the stuff has overturned popular conventions of strength vs. weight, reliability and stiffness. Carbon is rapidly replacing critical aluminum components almost everywhere on the bike. How often have we heard a component maker swear off carbon, saying that aluminum is the better and safer choice for a frame, bar, stem or whatever - and then announce later, as Renthal most recently did, that they had discovered a method to make a superior carbon replacement?

Renthal Fatbar Lite Carbon

Renthal espoused aluminum as the best-choice material for its handlebar range and was one of the most noteable carbon hold-outs, until they shocked us with the Carbon Fatbar release.



More often than not, now-a-days it is the part's MSRP, not the optimum material for the job that influences our choices. Sound engineering dictates that the best materials and construction techniques be used for each application on the bicycle. Sound business practice says that the most economical materials and manufacturing methods be used to make all those parts affordable. Producing a performance bicycle, even a $10,000 model, is constrained equally by both rules. If a bike maker says that their model X was a cost-is-no-object design, it's bullsh*t. But, what if the retail price actually was taken out of the equation?



So, the question for today's Pinkbike poll is: If the price was equal, and the best methods and materials were used to produce the part, which material would you choose? We limited your choices to major components and the materials which are widely available for each option.














Author Info:
RichardCunningham avatar

Member since Mar 23, 2011
974 articles

296 Comments
  • 173 3
 What?! No option for unobtainium??
  • 12 7
 I like what you did there Sir.
  • 29 1
 Depleted uranium all the way for me! It works for the M1 Abrahms!
  • 17 46
flag minty1 (Mar 14, 2014 at 10:34) (Below Threshold)
 Who honestly would prefer a steel frame over any other option??
  • 56 2
 Probably people who have ridden steel XC bikes, cause they are awesome.
  • 55 1
 The whole world of BMX riding
  • 13 33
flag endurojeff29bzh (Mar 14, 2014 at 11:01) (Below Threshold)
 And What?! No option for Enduro material neither ...
  • 7 1
 I have a steel XC/Trail bike, its a chromoly steel Cove handjob and its an awesome bike, I switched to a cheep light weight carbon frame to save a bit of weight for xc riding but it rode like crap so I bought another Handjob, I have so much fun on this bike, I throw it around all over the place and it awsome, so in this respect steel wins, but I am also lucky enough to own a blur trc and a carbon v10 so do appriciate that carbon does have its place.
  • 40 1
 What about Hemp?
  • 19 0
 hand jobs are fun, no doubt, but i am sure you can do better...
  • 8 2
 @ jefftrancex1xtr + @ jimo746 = ENDURONIUM!!!
  • 4 0
 I borrowed a bike off my mate James Howlett last weekend made out of adamantium. He reckons its indestructible, he always was a bit of a fibber though. I wasnt too impressed if im honest, my Ibis seemed miles stronger.
  • 11 13
 What is Miley Cyrus face made of?
  • 10 0
 Adamantium?
  • 1 2
 What about adamantium?
  • 2 0
 What about Waspaloy? Not that I plan on riding in extremely high temperatures, but I'd like the option.
  • 20 3
 @waki... To answer your question honestly in order of concentration: semen, make up, cocaine, semen, skin.

Personally I don't want to ride a bike made of that.
  • 7 0
 What about a bamboo DH rig?
  • 12 0
 I chose other. I want a frame made of a 1 atom thick sheet of Graphene. It would also be invisible.
  • 4 0
 Paper mache?
  • 2 0
 What about gold ?
  • 5 1
 american^ XD does it come with a gold desert eagle? another pointlessly heavy but shiny thing
  • 4 0
 Not to be a wise-ass, but 500 hipsters can't be wrong with their BAMBOO bikes.
  • 2 6
flag WAKIdesigns (Mar 16, 2014 at 13:25) (Below Threshold)
 I doubt hipsters ride bamboo bikes, at least not the good ones. Quality bamboo bikes cost fortune and if a hipster had that cash he would not be a hipster
  • 1 0
 Hipsters ride downhill?
  • 2 0
 Quote of the day by michibretz "hand jobs are fun"
Schnarrf schnarrf
  • 1 0
 You guy talking about adamantium, we used to have a pop star in the eighties called adam ant.
boingboing.net/images/adamant2010.jpg
Cant Imagine a material refined from this Smile
  • 41 3
 I have used all these materials for frame construction, including scandium as well, and, for a XC/All Mountain bikes, a Titanium frame has something special about it. I am not saying its the best but has a lot of character and the ride has a great feeling
  • 125 1
 Carbotanium plz
  • 8 0
 I agree. Ti is my go to material for a frame, dont really know why, just somthing special about it.
  • 5 0
 Carbotanium would be nice haha
  • 20 2
 Flamperia think you've hit the nail on the head with two word - 'character' and 'feeling' - its all personal preference. Personally - love a steel hardtail for stupid fun on singletrack. Then there's my dually that I have no idea what its made of, but its fun as heck! There's also my DH rig formed from solid rock and iron, weigh a ton but heck - unbreakable.
Does what I want and its fun for me.

Having said all this..... has anyone seen X-Men? That adamantium stuff seems kinda legit!
  • 2 0
 How much is Titanium compared to Ali ? I always loved when Titanium got used for bikes through the years just something special about it but then again with todays tech I'd like to see a modern DH bike made from some reynolds 953 tubing be bomb proof bit of flex to take the big hits and won't snap due to fatigue like Ali.
  • 24 0
 If money was no issue, Id have my own bike shop in my basement.
  • 5 1
 With 3D printing I think Ti will make a comeback with less wastage the price will be less too hopefully. I am riding an ali rigid to work right now and missing the comfort of my old litespeed classic. I like my Scandiminium and magnesium squishy a whole bunch and wish that had been an option above. What about Hemp fibre composites is anyone trying that as a frame material?
  • 13 0
 @ Viatch - this has landed me in trouble with people on the internet before, but when money is no issue, can I visit your basement?
  • 12 0
 carbontanium is a real thing. i know that one of the editions of the Pagani Zonda super car used it
  • 3 0
 @choppertank3e I like that you mentioned hemp fibers... if cost was no object I'd be looking seriously at one of calfee's hemp-wrapped bamboo frames. Those things are freakin gorgeous, and people say the ride is really smooth.

Titanium has a beautiful ride to it though. Actually I have an old litespeed unicoi softail frame sitting in front of me right now. It's a rad design: the seatstays and seat tube are connected by a 1" stroke shock, and the chainstays are designed to flex as the suspension moves. Rides just like a hardtail but practically eliminates chatter/vibrations. Funky flexy designs like that are really only possible with materials like titanium (possibly also carbon?). Plus it looks beautiful.
  • 6 0
 adamantium would be ok. wrap me 2 frames please. one for me, one for my girl.
  • 2 0
 Linen fibre/flax is another like Hemp which has been used in some bikes and the Urge Veggie helmets. Supposed to be a more Eco material but similar to Carbon in properties...
  • 4 0
 It'd have to be Santa Cruz, Enve, and Raceface quality carbon.
  • 1 0
 @bkm303 Steel was the original frame material for that design... Moots YBB ran steel for a year before they switched to TI.
  • 9 0
 Its kind of a arbitrary poll, as the questions and answers are presented as absolutes.
I think the future is in all of these materials, but the way we use them together will continue to evolve. Each material is capable of producing beatiful bikes and components, but some materials have advantages over others depending on the application. It's all in the refinement of the application, and discovering new ways to use the materials together to acheive a desired effect. We are nowhere near the pinnacle, but I believe carbon is going to continue playing a huge role in it.
Carbon holds a ton of promise and will continue be perfected as new methods are explored such as internal latticework, or introducing new materials to the matrix (Anyone seen that cutting edge metal truss system that weighs less than styrofoam yet flexible like a spring?)
I think the limit for carbon is in applications where there is shear stress from clamping forces, which is why it is so difficult to make a stem. Its not that you cant make the shape, or make it strong or stiff or fatigue resistant, its that you have to clamp it at the edges of the faceplate, and the steerer, and the limited real-estate in these areas. Its that binding force and shear stress around the hardware, and terminating the fibers in the most high stress locations rather than having continuity around them. Stems just dont play to carbons strengths as well, but who knows, it's certainly in the realm of possibilities to overcome, but I dont think it will be carbon alone. I could see an all carbon stem if it had an metal binder for the steerer tube, and the faceplate. Similar to the way a seat collar works around a frame to bind the seatpost . Would it have an advantage over an aluminum stem? Probably not after all things considered.
  • 8 0
 For me, it depends on the bike. Some bikes it would be carbon, some would be ti, some would be steel.
  • 7 0
 Condominium...
  • 2 1
 They should use Adamantium!!!! It worked out well for the wolverine!!
  • 1 0
 Wouldnt steel and titanium flex too much for bearings to last? Or atleast on a dh bike
  • 5 0
 If cost were no object I'd have AT LEAST one of each!!!!!
  • 1 0
 @maxlombardy yeah I think I had heard that before. I would imagine repeatedly flexing the stays like that would be hell on the paint/rust situation for a steel frame though, right? On Moots' website it mentions a fatigue problem with the chainstays too. Interesting stuff. moots.com/our-craft/history
  • 1 0
 @downhilladdict: For a given volume, Ti is around 1.5x stiffer than Alu, whilst Steel is about 3x as stiff as Alu... of course, they are both heavier than Alu too, so by the time you compare tubing sizes and wall thicknesses, there is alot less material in a Steel or Ti frame... that said, with sound design, you can still exploit the stiffness of the material where it counts~ I have a steel AM bike and the swingarm is noticeably stiffer than any similar Alu bike.
  • 2 0
 You misspelled "mom"
  • 1 1
 @jivehoneyjive aluminum is much stiffer than steel when compared to steel of equal weight. Making them not worth using when a frame has too many pivots n stuff....cus it flexes. Aluminum doesnt flex, it cracks. A steel frame would bend then sheer.
  • 2 0
 The carbon fiber, made in Asian factories, is for sure a pretty gnar process. But I hear that the kids that make the stuff get nap time and smoking breaks.
  • 1 0
 @jonjonm yes thats where I got this from, top gear ftw
  • 23 0
 Frankly, I've never really ridden a carbon or titanium bike (save for a V-10 once at Interbike), especially against an aluminum counter part (which is really the only way to know) so I can't make much of a comparison. I've never really been able to afford carbon or ti parts, either.

Unfortunately, since cost is an object in the real world, I can't even answer this fantasy land question where it's not.
  • 3 0
 I feel your pain man. I hope the people deciding the prices don't see this poll with everyone ticking carbon, because people like us might just get priced out.
  • 2 0
 Evil Uprising, well priced for a Carbon Frame Decent too.
  • 1 0
 both my bikes are carbon fibre, mountain and road bike.

really like them, done right its the ultimate material but its not cheap, and can be vulnerable to crash damage that would dent a tubular metal frame but may not ruin that metal frame?

previous bikes I've owned too many in aluminium, titanium, and cromoly steel
  • 20 3
 As much as I love parts that are made out of carbon, I would like to have more information on the working conditions of the people in china or wherever that make them. I don't want my hobby to be costing somebody else their health.
  • 6 2
 You think high precision carbon parts are made in sweatshops?
  • 3 2
 I don't "think" they are. In most cases, I just don't have proof that they aren't. I'm obviously not talking about all manufacturers but in some countries, workers aren't worth much.
  • 6 1
 cedrico - great point. I too would like to know how things are made, what are environmental and employment ethics. THe issue is that they may be better in Asia than on the old continent... Farmers in Europe use incredible crap to grow food all according to EU regulations. All I know is that recently I was ordering carbon rims from light-bicycle and their customer support is unbelievable.
  • 5 0
 Dude, we are talking about a bike where money does not matter so you can wish for Carbon fiber hand laid from lets
say Megan Fox or who ever you want!

Anyway do you think the work conditions in the Carbon shop are different than than in the aluminum or steel shop next door?
  • 1 0
 Waki- I just built up a set of LB 33mm AM 26ers and they are super straight, round and stiff as hell. No ride reports yet but so far I like them.
  • 3 1
 Well, I can tell you this: if you buy ENVE, you're guaranteed that it was made in the USA (Ogden, Utah to be exact) by people who make great money and seem to have ideal working conditions. The quality is great, the attitude is great, and the company continues to give back to their community hand-over-fist... Which is also great.

I believe in responsible sourcing and quality product... and this is beginning to sound like a f*cking infomercial. Sorry. But I'm not sorry. They're a great goddamn company.
  • 1 0
 ambatt- I agree with all your points on ENVE. If I had unlimited funds to spend on bike parts I would own several sets of their wheels.So my options were the std Stan's FLOW EX or go on a flyer and try some LB's . BTW the price per rim is 4x less than ENVE. We will see how they hold up. What I can assure you is ENVE rims at $800 a piece are not even an option, so in some sense they are not really competing on the same playing field. Sort of like how Ferrari is not losing sales because I bought a Nissan Titan truck.
  • 2 0
 I never said they were losing sales... I just was trying to give an alternate answer to @cedrico's 'responsible sourcing' comment. You get what you pay for, and with ENVE, you pay (a lot) more, and you get a lot more... Like verifiable production, ethical employment processes, etc.

For the record, I really wasn't meaning for it to be any sort of debate or endorsement. Smile My apologies if it came out that way.
  • 1 0
 I know for a fact trek-bontrager, and Santa Cruz do their carbon frames in the United States I so believe the factory is in Michigan somewhere.
  • 2 0
 Ah you know that for a "Fact"? [citation needed]

BTW Santa Cruz have never made their carbon in US, their first CF bike was Blur XC and it was one of the first frames made after their move to Asia in 2008/09. They were saying it many times.
  • 1 0
 @potthead

Santa Cruz have not made any bikes in the US for many seasons now, whether CF or aluminium alloy

sad, but true ;(
  • 7 0
 I choose titanium for road and xc.
For me, ti has a certain almost magical feel about it that I don't get from carbon, aluminum or my old Reynolds 531 tubing days.

After 25+ yrs my oldest ti hardtail still carves up singletrack like no ones business. It feels and rides the same it did brand new as it does today. This is why I love ti.

As for roadbiking, it has been my experience that high mileage on aluminum feels like riding a piece of wet spaghetti. Carbon is too harsh and just doesn't transmit the road feel like a ti frame does. Perhaps if I was 6ft 4 inches tall and 220lbs I would have a different opinion.
  • 1 0
 That the problem with this pol, each material works best in different situations. A Ti road bike sitting next to my Ti 29'er Hard Tail, next to my steel commuter, steel dirt jumper than carbon for the dually and alloy or carbon for the DH bike. Sweet!
  • 11 4
 My thing with carbon is this - its really meant to be for higher performance over a shorter amount of time. There are obvious pros and cons...Not bashing carbon frames or components by any means, I've got a few carbon olds and ends on my bikes, but working as a wrench in the LBS, its crazy to see how fast some carbon frames take wear and tear. Theres a reason you wont find many lifetime warranties on carbon frames, just like theres a reason you'll see 20 year old rockhopper frames still being beaten and abused but still intact. I have nothing against the industry pushing carbon (theres no denying its perks), but at the same time, i'm very comfortable knowing my aluminum frame is pretty bulletproof and under lifetime warranty
  • 9 4
 Devinci offers a lifetime warranty on their carbon frames
  • 8 1
 Lots of companies offer lifetime warranties on carbon bikes. Trek and Specialized among them.
  • 3 1
 I think the reason why manufactures place limited warranties on carbon is because it's quite expensive and the resin has a short life. The carbon structure has minimal wear and tear, it's mostly the resin coating that wears and is often misunderstood. The structure of carbon is extremely dependent on the resin and with a weakened resin, this is where carbon can lose it's insane stiffness.
  • 5 1
 a lifetime warranty will probably only cover manufacturing faults, and not general wear and tear which is what the OP is on about.
  • 2 0
 If you read the fine print that lifetime warranty is only around 5 years on kona and devincis carbon frames, yet they offer a real lifetime warranty on their aluminium versions..
  • 3 0
 what manufacturer covers wear and tear anyway that's not a warranty issue. As for carbon, look at handle bar testing the carbon regularly out lasts alloy for fatigue and of course overalls strength is ample stronger. The issue with carbon is crash damage and that is definitely where the life of carbon comes into question. Good point about resin to above.
  • 25 1
 No quality carbon component is brittle, I thought we had that debate 5 years ago. At the moment we hate large wheels and Enduro - remember?
  • 3 0
 Problem is people don't understand that "lifetime" is the design lifetime of the model version usually, NOT the lifespan of the human who owns it. Ellsworth was notorious for using "lifetime" frame warranties which amounted to maybe a couple years at most as they constantly re-designed their frames to correct defects, and then poof... old warranty isn't valid anymore because the new frames are made with different pieces which aren't backwards compatible.
  • 1 0
 I think it would be interesting to see a frame maker really go out of their way to make carbon unbelievably strong and virtually indestructible, without so much concern and bias towards weight reduction. Just pure strength and durability. Everyone is using carbon to go lighter while maintaining adequate or slightly improved strength and other properties over prvious designs and generations, but what if the objective was purely to go stronger/stiffer/more durable.
What I mean by that is to take a current frame or component that is already proven to be of acceptable weight and strength and durability, carbon or otherwise, and then build it out of carbon to the point that the weights were equal to its alloy counterpart, and see Just how durable it can really be.
I think it would surpass everything out their if the weights were brought to a standard for this experiment.
Imagine a carbon wheel with the same weight of a burly all aluminum wheel. Maybe you construct it all out of carbon, or maybe make the spoke bed and bead channel/hook out of titanium, or aluminum, but the goal is for the weights to end up the same, with the highest level of dependability. I would imagine we could end up with some pretty damn bombproof frames and wheels and other components.
  • 2 0
 Metacomet, perhaps you should look up the 2007 Scott Ransom. The weight of the carbon version is not too dissimilar to the ally counterpart, however when designing the frame Scott made it too be strong and later admitting that they could have shaved at least 300g of the frame weight.
  • 1 0
 @Metacomet, this is what Specialized sort of does. From visiting Morgan Hill and speaking with their product teams, they select carbon for it's strength/stiffness properties first, and then light weight is secondary yet expected. They don't build it to the same weight as you propose, but it's interesting that their main priority to build from carbon is to get a stronger/stiffer frame. Even with their stupid light stuff, they don't want to have light weight come at the sacrifice of strength and safety.
  • 1 0
 I think most MTB manufacturers are doing this to some extent, but they always end up lighter as they can get strength and durability results they want, and Still end up lighter. Plus, money is an object, and the manufacturers need to be able to market and sell the stuff and in most cases lighter=faster. You know they say sex sells... In MTB, Speed sells.
I guess I am kind of dreaming of an ultimate end-user bike. Not one aimeded at being that much lighter in effort to put its pro riders into the podium. One that is just not going to give up the ghost Period, and still be light enough to not be total pigs.
Just an experiment anyway. Would want to know just How much stronger they would be than everything else. It would be beyond practical strength, which is why they always end up scaling back and lightening up the frames.
  • 5 2
 Metacomet - people with money do not like the idea of having a bike that will last forever, they want excuses to buy a new bike every year. As crazy as it may sound mechanical failure is not a bad sign for some people...
  • 1 0
 Your right about that Waki. Although we are all gear whores in our own right, just not all in the same way. lol
  • 2 0
 metacomet. GT did this with their first carbon bike. It wasn't much is at all lighter than its alloy counterpart, it was purely built for increased strength at the same weight.
  • 1 0
 @ka-brap

interesting thing about Specialized is that my mountain bike frame (Stumpjumper Expert carbon 29'er hardtail) weighs less than my road frame (Tarmac SL2). 1.18kg for the Stumpy, and 1.3kg for the Tarmac

Tarmac is going good, but I'm on my 3rd Stumpy in 2 years (covered by their excellent warranty to be fair to SBC!)

the 2014 Stumpy frame has had a substantial redesign and perhaps some "bulk" added to critical areas.
  • 8 0
 Im suprised that carbon wins hands down on allmost everything but the stem . Why would you trust cardon on high impact things like a crank and wheel's but not a stem ?.
  • 1 0
 That's because carbon stems are almost nonexistent in the market segments pinkbike caters to. If money were actually no object, manufacturers development of stems would be different and the results of this poll would be different. Since we live in a world where money does exist, the weight and stiffness benefits of carbon aren't worth the cost for something like a 50mm stem.
  • 1 1
 Carbon is not good for making small parts involving the use of bolts. Where you could save weight would be carbon stem/handlebar combo - maybe.
  • 4 0
 Because in my opinion, a stem failure is pretty much the most catastrophic failure that could occur on the trail. Ii'd much prefer to snap a crank. Granted blowing up a front wheel would be right up there, but still preferably to a snapped stem in my opinion. But, I also chose aluminum for a stem because I have no experience with carbon stems. Maybe they're fine, I just don't know and will let other people find out first like I did with carbon wheels.
  • 9 1
 so....... if I'm following these polls correctly - steel is the retro future and carbon is the future future?
  • 5 0
 I like the fact that If I wreck with my steel/aluminum frames and get a deep scratch or even small ding or shallow dent I am not going to sweat it. Most trails here in western CO and over in UT would result in that from a good crash. With carbon I feel like I would fret every little mark on the frame/component. Been riding a steel ragley frame I got for $350 lately, and like that it's very fun and still quite capable (for a hardtail). Not to mention very cheap to replace.
  • 3 0
 Agreed. I got a Chromag Stylus that I ride year round, and only bring out the Carbon Dixon when the weather is nice and I know I won't wreck the frame. I find the poll to 'this or that', I definitely wouldn't get a Carbon hardtail!
  • 5 0
 In the mythical land of Money No Object you can replace the carbon frame when it gets that scratch.
  • 1 0
 Eh... It all depends, I guess. I tend to run carbon everything and don't really stress that much... And I'm also the queen of high-speed, life-endangering spills, but I don't replace my shit all that often. If you buy the right components and the right frame (aka, quality products), it's usually fine after a tough fall.

And yes, I live and ride in Utah... And love rocks. Smile
  • 1 1
 In the mythical land of "Money No Object" you would have to either activate the warranty or grab another bike from supplier. Those things can take their time...
  • 6 0
 Oh come one why everyne choses carbon rather than titanium !?!? Ti is one of the most advanced materials out there
  • 2 0
 Carbotanium? I'd like to see that come into bikes someday. Sounds cool and it's supposed to be pretty good stuff.
  • 4 1
 Because the ads say "carbon is the best"
  • 2 1
 Thermoplastic carbon--> Allows for innovative shapes, welding and decreased cycle/manufacturing time. That my friends is the future. Carbon/titanium weave is just some uber expensive material with no real world applications...
  • 2 3
 Seen a surprising amount of cracked Ti frames; often in unrepairable areas... even when it is repairable, it is a far more involved process than the others.

Carbon just needs a bit of resin and some cloth and you're back in the game.
  • 2 0
 Until more companies have access to ballistic carbon like cannondale I'll always be worried about carbon scratching then breaking. Has anyone trusted a repaired carbon frame or rim before?
  • 2 0
 Yes, lots... carbon is quite easily repaired actually if you know how (and there are plenty of companies that offer the service for the cycling industry).
  • 3 0
 I know I'm in a massive minority, but having ridden a steel DH bike for years, I'm a huge fan of the material. It dampens vibrations, is quiet, tough, repairable, and easily workable by the small scale builder in his garage. As nice as all the wonder materials are, there is something really special about the way you can relate to good ol' chromoly.
  • 1 0
 what are you riding? a Brooklyn?
  • 1 0
 Never pedaled on a downhill chromoly frame but i would love to. Nowadays they can be engineered to be light, stiff and repairable as added bonus. Problem is that the material is not as malleable as aluminium or carbon therefore manufacturers are unable to build nice curved shapes to make their end-product streamlined and aesthetically pleasing...

...two good examples are Doberman Bikes (Canadian manufacturer) and I-Track Suspension (German manufacturer)

www.i-tracksuspension.com
www.pinkbike.com/u/dobermannbikes/album/2012-Dobermann-Bikes-Catalogue
  • 4 0
 @NickBit I ride an SWD Racing. They were a small DH frame maker here in Northern California until 2008 when the owner sadly passed away. His bikes will live on forever though. I ride a 216dh and my wife rides a Crazy 8. Incredible bikes that have a great racing legacy as well. Here's mine:

www.pinkbike.com/photo/10328897
  • 2 0
 That's a nice looking rig man, real clean lines.
  • 2 0
 Nice Bike B-Mac. I love a bike with a bit of a story.
  • 1 0
 ...if Orange actually made chromoly frames, it would be something like this! Smile

...looks cool but the colour could be different though... Smile
  • 1 0
 @ PedroVieira Steve (owner/designer of SWD) was a big admirer of Orange's design and it definitely shows in the 216. I'm not a huge fan of the color either (though it's unique). This was a factory team frame/color and only a few were built for the race team in late 2007/early 2008 just before Steve passed away....kinda seems wrong to paint it until I really have too.
  • 1 0
 By all means, disregard my opinion! I'm very sorry for your loss, keep that bike as original as possible.

In the future though, you could experiment with bright colours to rejuvenate the image of your brand! How much does that bike weight?
  • 1 0
 39 pounds right now. Hope to bring it down to 37 pretty soon..
  • 1 0
 @PedroVieira
Just for clarification, I-Track Suspension is an Australian company (not German). Smile
  • 1 0
 I apologize for the misinformation... Smile
  • 2 0
 No one seems to have considered that the pole included manufacturing too.
A high performance/quality aluminium or titanium using expensive/radical manufacturing techniques will produce components with unbelievable properties.
Also what about mixes and reinforcements? A lot of the aerospace companies are researching and using nano foams to reinforce hollow structures.
  • 1 0
 This. You, sir or madame, speak of what should be. Imagine a rehashed Banshee morphine with that reinforcing foam in its already reinforced frame... Hnnnngg. Of course not only for this specific frame, but for a lot of the older, loved frames and tech. Unless the people in question are into new technology, there is nothing wrong with the current and old designs. After all, there is only so many designs that can make a bike frame. I honestly can't even imagine a brand new frame design. But that's what this industry does, it takes the good things from old designs, and puts them in a newer situation, making a new frame. I'm excited to see what the future of the MTB industry holds! I hope my rant makes sense...
  • 2 0
 I hate to be using a road bike as an example but the Genesis Volare 953 is made of high grade Stainless, it's "butt down to 0.3mm in places" and is used buy the Genesis race team against other carbon frames. My nano foam point referring to the fact that you could never get a steel MTB frame anywhere near that thin (therefore light) as it'd easily dent and suffer from crumpling (the 'coke can effect') however some of the many nano foams currently being researched have the ability to increase the impact resistance and the resistance to buckling of hollow hollow tubes by huge amounts. I completely get your point about there being nothing wrong with current technology although 10 years ago everyone hated on carbon, a couple of years ago people were drooling over it and now it's becoming fairly common. Maybe in the future everyone will be riding steel coke cans filled with almost weightless nano foams, with everything connected via bluetooth???
  • 2 0
 I like that idea about nano foam reinfrocement, we should ask for a concept from TSC / Virgin. Btw I think that bluetooth will be history then.
  • 4 1
 Cost was never an object in the mountain bike industry. We are already getting the best! Anyway, for me titanium is such an incredible material. I still don't feel anything about carbon....:-)
  • 1 0
 Falas por ti que tens a casa cheia de Nicolais!! Big Grin
  • 2 0
 I would trust carbon for full sus frames, handlebars etc but not for cranks. I saw a horrendous photo where somebody's XO carbon cranks had shattered and sliced really deep into the guy's calf... Pretty much cut through to the bone. Photo got removed but it was enough to put me off. Being a heavier rider I don't rate my chances and would rather an aluminium crank. Also, for hardtail frames, I like steel. There is something beautiful about a skinny tubed no fuss get it done kind of hardtail. Maybe I'm just stuck in my ways but I like and trust steel for the kind of riding I do.
  • 2 0
 I don't really trust carbon for dh cranks just yet, but for everything else why not? Well, besides cost...
  • 1 0
 Personally would take ti cranks if cost were no object- application wise it has the fatigue of steel at less weight while being more impact resistant than carbon. Also would like to point out that non aero steel tubes are lower profile than non aero aluminum or carbon tubes. It's noticeable in very windy areas.
  • 1 0
 I think with 3D printing starting to creep its way into the MTB scene we may start seeing a lot more of Ti
  • 2 0
 For first question, I coun'd find answer: ,,Depends on application."

There can be great or rubbish frames made from any material, and every material has it's unique properties which makes great for sertain style of riding, even with steel/aluminium manufacturers are still able to push limits and find new ways of making then better.
That said, for most of the appliciations in MTB I'd have to go with carbon.

I'd also be really interested in waste/energy/recycling cost of each material not just retail costs!
  • 5 0
 Is this poll meant to prove how uninformed we are, and susceptible to marketing?
  • 2 1
 If money is no object my material of choice is a "big stinky steamer" defecated by some big bike company executive.
  • 2 0
 "How often have we heard a component maker swear off carbon, saying that aluminum is the better and safer choice for a frame, bar, stem or whatever - and then announce later, as Renthal most recently did, that they had discovered a method to make a superior carbon replacement?"

I would have to think that some of this is purely market driven, and that this could partly be Renthal just trying to save face. As we know, marketing and perception play a big role in what people think and buy and carbon everything is taking off. Even if their aluminum bar really is better, that doesn't mean people are going to buy it. So from a business standpoint, if they can make a good carbon product it makes sense because whether they are really worth it or not doesn't matter, as long as the consumers think its worth it.
  • 2 0
 The gucci bike designer in me is a roadie, so at a cost is no issue price point, looks are extremely important, and nothing looks better than a custom Ti bike. It would probably be a Firefly or 333 w/ custom paint, disc brakes and DA 9000. Very close second would be an Argonaut disc, and close in third would be a custom lugged bike (tube material doesn't matter) with black or navey tubes and bonze/brass or chrome/silver lugs respectively.
  • 1 0
 Firefly is pure dream material.
  • 2 0
 I would choose Carbon Fiber with a Honeycomb core for my frame material. Koenigsegg uses the same mix for various parts of the chassis on the Agera R. I would just have to ensure that the honeycomb is completely free of honey prior to riding so I don't have to worry about bees and bears chasing me down the trails. Although it may improve my speed?!?
  • 2 0
 Oh really - think outside the box people! I want a glass frame with glass bars, stem cranks and rims. I would hammer down the trail as the sun sets and the bike would glow like the sun!
  • 1 0
 They tried that on a snowboard once. They failed. It looked cool though.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmZ1QfZ9Skk
  • 1 0
 If you ever needed proof that people are stupid, then this poll is it. For every component that is already being made from carbon the poll is through the roof. But because there hasnt been that many carbon stems, aluminium wins. Blind stupidity
  • 1 0
 I've ridden both, carbon and aluminium (never steel or titanium) and besides easier customizable paintings I'd chose carbon all the way. My current XC Bike has a frame made of carbon, too. I had a Scott Addict SL roadbike-frame and it was awesome, too. Much lighter than the aluminium Bianchi I had before but also much stiffer and at the same time more comfortable.
  • 2 0
 Pagani is utilizing a titanium/ carbon blend for their cars. It looks incredible and it doesn't crack like your ordinary carbon, check it out. Would love to see that on a bike.
  • 2 0
 Pagani also sells their cars for hundreds of thousands of dollars, a couple of them are in the millions.
  • 4 0
 That is how industry evolves though, someone does it on a boutique level like pagani and soon enough there will be more affordable and efficient ways of doing it.
  • 1 0
 Pre-built wheels are a great example of that, nobody buys rims/spokes/hubs separately to build up a wheelset anymore, they just buy wheels and whine about the hubs on them nowadays.
  • 1 0
 I do... and will hopefully be doing so in the future (cost permitting).
  • 3 0
 I do believe carbon fibre frames are far more difficult to recycle than ones made out of aluminium due to all those bonded layers. So yeah, I'll happily stick to metal.
  • 4 1
 While your probably right about the recycling part, you should do some research on how aluminum is obtained. It involves destroying hundreds of square kilometres of invaluable rainforrest and contaminates unbelievable masses of water and soil. Natives working in those factories don't have any safety measures or healthcare and struggle for a few cents, they can't send their kids to school and die very young or get sick really bad because of the polluted environment while the companies make millions of course. So I guess although your idea is very praiseworthy, unfortunately you aren't helping the world one bit.
  • 2 4
 Actually you can recycle carbon easily, same way plastic is recycled. Grind it up into very small pieces and then use it in something else.
  • 2 0
 Thank you very much for your insight, mazze, I haven't looked into that yet. But all disadvantages aside, I'm sure alumium is still better than carbon in environmental and economical terms. And then there's steel, of course, which can be obtained and recycled pretty easily. I'm not saying that aluminium is the only way to go but I do believe that overall it's definitely better than carbon fibre.
And deeeight: Unfortunately, there still isn't a simple and cheap way to recycle carbon, that's part of why it still is so expensive. But I'm sure that some smart people will figure out a way to solve that problem in the near future.
  • 1 1
 @deeeight + that is downcycling and as far as my internetz research goes, there is no way to recycle carbon. Also not all plastics are recyclable. @darrentheclaw - why do we humans always have to believe that everything will be fixed one day by smart people? Asbestos anybody?
  • 1 0
 We don't have to, but I'd rather chose doing that than believing that things will be made worse by stupid people. Although that's really not that unlikely.
  • 1 0
 Your government comes to mind... (not that mine is actually better)
  • 1 0
 You can say that again! Although this may be a little off-topic, but many younger people in Germany are very unhappy with the current profit-driven government. We should always keep in mind that many of the decisions that are being made by politicians everywhere at the moment do not necessarily represent the will of the people. The real problem is that most governments only have their own country's wellbeing in mind and act accordingly.
  • 1 1
 I believe the "European Union" will destroy many cultures and spoliate most of their wealth. Let's keep freeriding while it's free...
  • 1 0
 Well, my goal was not to fire up a political discussion like that. This is definitely not the right place for it.
But I have to strongly disagree.
I would like to know what makes you think that. Firstly, I think that big companies are responsible for the most part in this case. And secondly, Germany is very likely to be the strongest motor for environmental protection and sustainabilty in politics in the world. We have pretty much the highest taxes on fuel and we are the only state that decided to stop nuclear power sites as there is still no clue what to do with the atomic waste. We tried to push transnational treaties against global warming, ban genetically engineered plants, have the highest moral standards on stock breeding, we pay for the water coming through our water pipes because water is a scarce good (hello USA&Canada) and the list goes on and on. The 3 biggest players on destroying the world are #1 usa, followed by china and russia and that's a fact.
The EU is pretty forward thinking regarding those topics. But then again.. nothing is perfect. Especially not in politics.
  • 1 1
 You're only seeing the beautiful part of the spectrum here...

What about unpayable debts? Suicidal austerity policies? Impoverishment of entire countries?

Do you actually live in Greece, Portugal, Spain or any other country being financially destroyed by "Troika Programme"?

I'm mostly sure that you really don't know what's happening outside Merkelandia. Because if you did, you wouldn't praise the almighty euro so promptly.
  • 1 1
 Darrentgeclaw - I rather meant that we need to be more specific, fir instance the fact that cars can be made more efficient is ok, but we can't take everything by the same measure and say that carbon will or whatever else be recycleable. This is what annoys me, people used to think that religion will solve all problems, now people think that science and technology will. Blind belief is a blind belief. Car technogy won't make the planet a better place no matter how smart is the person developing it, when the problem is the institution of a personal car itself. It is the person that wants to move between various places that has to be smart to choose a different mean of transportation, be it public transport or at least rental car. Science and technology can't solve problems with common sense. Also S&T create problems, while many see it as as stainless as some see God. It is a tool that can be used for good and evil , it may help indirectly, for instance internet and other media are now successfully killing homophobia
  • 1 0
 carbon for all as long as money was also no object for replacing parts

There is crazy nanotechnology for carbon fibers happening that could see carbon become even stronger and lighter.
Carbon has been proved time and time again to be stronger and lighter when designed right. why would you choose any other.

must watch this its brilliant.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_J4y_BYem4

I find it interesting how many people will choose a carbon bar but not a carbon stem....interesting.
  • 1 0
 While I answered Carbon, I would really like to see Carbon Nanotubes becoming more usable. They can be up to 40 times lighter than current carbon composites and up to 50 times stronger. This stuff is a pinnacle of materials, but scientists require a lot more time to study it. Right now nanotubes are primarily used as additives to other materials.
  • 1 0
 For me im not too fussed, if i like it and buy into the brand then thats fine. Material doesn't really sway it for me ie i'd rather ride a production privee shan than a carbon hardtail and my orange five than a YT Capra, its just the way I am.
  • 1 0
 id be awkward, steel frame (the ones that are super light are usually super expensive), aluminium bar and stem (all chromag), carbon rims (enve) and cranks (as long as campagnolo are making them). tho all that wouldnt give me cedric garcia's style and steve peat's endurance
  • 2 1
 I dont think that anyone so far has considered how things break.
If a steel frame takes an impact it can bend.

If an aluminium (yes it has a second i in it) frame gives way it may still bend before it snaps.

I've never seen a bent carbon frame but i have seen plenty of snapped ones.
I havent researched into carbon frames that much or bars or any other component for that matter but when carbon stuff breaks it seems to shatter.
Thats not good. I'd much rather land a drop with a droopy alloy bar than a bit of carbon bar bolted to my bike and the other side hanging off.

My major thing with frames has always been welding. We all know that metal around welds is weaker than it was before the heat that the welding subjected it to.
In the automotive world some of the bonding products are ridiculous. Quite a few years ago a company used their bonding to stick two identical cars on top of each other roof to roof, they then lifted them up with a crane and the metal of the roof panel.gave way and tore through the metal before the bonding.
If something similar was used in a bike frame would we have more longevity in that way?
Although on a dh bike technology changes that much that after 2 years the frame is pretty much completely out of date anyway. So does it have to last any longer than 2 years??
  • 2 0
 I think bonding might still be too weak to use on tubular constructions. The cross-section of a tube gives very little surface area for the bond to use.

Bonding makes sense in cars around long parallel/flanged pieces which sit together. There are not many areas like that on a bike.
  • 1 0
 Carbon can withstand flex and fatigue, aluminum is poor in this regard. Look at high end fishing gear, massive levers all made of carbon. F1 crash tubs that the driver sit in, all carbon fibre. Latest commercial airliners and fighter jets, Carbon. The design has to be right too, no matter what material.
  • 2 1
 A concept that blows people's minds is when I state that the aluminum bike era is slowly drawing to an end. The price of mass-produced carbon will likely be less than aluminum in the future. When that happens, aluminum bikes will become the exception rather than the norm. Steel will likely remain for it's ride characteristics and ease of small scale manufacturing, but even that is debatable. Carbon really is that good.
  • 1 0
 Carbon and carbon with titanium fibres, like in Pagani Huayra, or carbon and vectran composite like in Antidote Lifeline. Carbon is just a beginning of new era of composites. Adding different fibres to carbon composite creates something even better. It's still aluminium for stems, and titanium for bolts, but I don't see any obstacle why shouldn't it be carbon-something even to produce a bolt. Nature is always the answear. Carbon is the base of all organic matter.
  • 1 1
 There are carbon bolts, mount your disc brake caliper and rotor with them and win MTB Darwin award. Koenigsegg makes exhaust pipes out of carbon, F1 cars where there is no room for fancy shmancy, have them made from metal...
  • 1 0
 I was going to go with titanium for things like bar & frame just for fatigue resistance & shock resistance but the strength of carbon seems hard to argue with. I'm worried about damage from objects like rocks & hard materials hitting it. I think if manufacturing processes were also considered & everything were made by 3D printing then I might still run with Ti for a frame, if every solid piece could be done as a whole. As the article points out, there's more to a materials performance than just the material. Alloying elements, conditions of use/abuse & the manufacturing processes make massive differences.

That V10 is so bad ass lookin'.
  • 1 0
 Titanium is hard to mold. It's a bitch to thermoform or hydroform and very VERY hard on bits in CNC machines. It's just too expensive to work with. That being said I'd love a Yeti SB66 TI!! Change the tube shape, make the machine work different but as long as it's still the same geo it'd be sweet. If it breaks, just weld it back up no heat treat needed. other than dent resistance I love the idea of TI.
  • 1 0
 This whole article and subsequent polling felt like a push-poll to me. The article was setup to make one feel as though selecting the option where the parts are most expensive (i.e. carbon) was the "correct" answer. I don't think that this is a very honest way to present a poll (not that such polling means much anyway).
  • 1 0
 Let the engineers figure what works best in what location on the bike. Carbon's integrity is largely dependent upon the resin matrix that supports it. When carbon fails, it fails catastrophically. This is the reason, depending upon application, that it is sometimes laminated with kevlar, so that the device maintains some of its structure and physical properties before repair/ replacement. The metallic materials usually provide some warning prior to failure, creeks and bends.

After the engineers figure out what materials are best suited to the application let the marketing guys have their way and tell us how much better it all is and how riding a bike will never be the same again.
  • 1 0
 I'd have Calfee design bamboo everything. Ive read they have done bamboo spokes, don't know if they have done a bamboo wheelset ,but I bet they could, especially if cost is no object. Bamboo!!!!
  • 2 0
 I'll bet the Professor could help with that, I mean he made a power supply out of coconuts for god's sake!
  • 5 2
 Yeah pretty sure everyone will put whatever marketing companies have told them is best
  • 4 0
 Maybe the young kids will, but I chose Ti where I could justify it.
  • 1 0
 I work in the bike industry and the main thing I've noticed is carbon isn't as awesome as it's made out to be. It's still a young material. Kids aluminum and ti is where it's at! Carbon needs some love before I'll put any on my mountain bike.
  • 3 0
 Stiffer, stronger and lighter.....jeez..I'd have carbon fibre legs if i could...
  • 6 0
 It can be arranged...
  • 10 0
 Oscar Pistorius may be able to help you with that... I have a feeling that a few extra bucks may help him in his short term future. lol
  • 1 0
 Rich, jet engine compressor fans are nickel alloys with small amounts of titanium. Ti bike frames are titanium alloys with small amounts of aluminium. Not really a valid comparison..
  • 1 0
 Compressionfans are titaniumalloys only the ones close to combustion could be nickel too, combustion and turbine fans are nickelalloys.
  • 1 0
 In general you dudes are right. I work on a few variants of GE Turbofans. So for example, on a CF6, all of the low speed compressor is titanium (stage 1-4 blades, disc and drum), some of the high speed compressor (stage 3-9 spool, up to stage 9 blades. From stage 9-14 nickel alloy steel, an everything aft of compressor, high nickel content alloys (steel).

That being said, none of these components are tubular or welded. This may be the fear in motorcycle racing. A fan blade is still 10-15lbs each, a big fan disc is hundreds of lbs.
  • 1 0
 Just curious, do you know up to which Stage Ti-17 is used?
2nd question: Anyone knows why, or has a nice link, it was banned in motorcycle racing?
  • 1 0
 Hmmm, stage 6 I think. Would depend on the type of engine, and the compressor outlet temps (which can be upwards of 400c)
  • 1 0
 Nice info, seems I was somewhat mistaken Wink
  • 4 0
 Materials mined from Mars!
  • 3 0
 Chocolate, nougat and Caramel? (Only the Brits may get this one!)
  • 1 0
 Canadians to! I think the Americans call it the Milky Way or something...
  • 1 0
 It shouldn't matter because it would be out of date as soon as you get it anyway, evolution rules. The overall design is the relevant critical point, material choice is just 1 part of the design.
  • 3 0
 Money no object? Graphene. Reality...carbon only where it carries significant advantages in weight/strength or both.
  • 1 0
 Materials are as good as their application and excecution. These questions I find rather moot. I don't care what its made out of, just make it the best and give me a sweet ass product and I'm happy.
  • 3 0
 My wish list:
- Carbon for my AM
- Titanium for my hard tail 29er
- Aluminum or Carbon for my DH
- Steel for my DJ
  • 1 0
 Steel.. Nobody will admit it but it's strong, rides nice and is affordable. Those are the 3 quality that matter the most to me. Sure it's not the lightest but that's not my main objective. I'm loving my Nimble 9
  • 1 0
 Carbotanium for a kind of Pagani bike!!!! the ultimate porn.... people under 18 couldn't even pass by you on the trails and look at you!!!!
  • 1 0
 You'll be taking "riding" to a whole new level.
  • 2 0
 I don't i would use carbon unless of course i was sponsored and it didnt matter if i broke it
  • 3 1
 All things being equal, I think the best material for my bike would be the bones of my enemies.
  • 1 0
 you have problems
  • 1 0
 If money were no object, i'll just use it so that Semenuk trains my freeride, Sam Hill to teach me downhill and Pilgrim to teach me how to be afraid.
  • 6 2
 What a useless poll !
  • 6 1
 That's what she said...
  • 4 0
 Actually the results are quite interesting.. some people would choose carbon for their frames, but they wouldn't choose it for a stemSmile Aluminium will be used for a loooong timeWink
  • 3 1
 Still bet you answered it though Wink
  • 4 0
 nah i haven't actually , I was just thinking of all the people ticking carbon for every thing , with no thought to what material is best where , not like I know or anything , but just didn't wanna take part in it for lack of knowledge.
  • 1 0
 Yeah pretty sure 90% of the people ticking carbon were only doing it because that's what the industry says is the "cool" thing.

Carbon is pretty, but I think I would rather hit my aluminium frame on a rock.
  • 2 0
 I can't imagine carbon fibre items in my street/park machine:P
  • 2 0
 Carbon on xc bikes and road bikes a get, but carbon on a dh bike does freak me out a little. I can get past the frames being carbon to a small extent because the craftsmanship is a lot better then it was a few years back. The fury and the v10 frames are built pretty tough from what I understand (never owned one). But carbon bars and crank arms, stems? No way blue jay, you'd be asking for trouble in my opinion.
  • 1 0
 Actually, it is the bars and stem that would be the most reliable if manufactured from carbon. The type of stress put on those components is precisely the kind carbon excels at handling. Cranks would worry me on a bike where the possibility of striking the crank arm on a rock at high speed exists. So basically no carbon cranks on a DH bike but carbon everywhere else.
  • 2 0
 Well your opinion is just that...yours. I have seen a lot more carbon bars on dh bikes broken than I have aluminium bars. The force being applied to them on a hard landing is going to be enough to snap them a lot quicker than aluminium. Aside from the weight saving, there is no reason for them at all to be on a dh bike. You should be using this time to talk moto riders into changing their aluminium bars to carbon since they are that much stronger.
  • 1 0
 This could simply be a deficiency in the skillset of the engineers in the bike industry. Either that or the drive for lighter bars has caused the manufacturers to sacrifice a little strength to achieve weight savings. Either that or there is a major issue with people over tightening their stem or stems designed to clamp aluminum put unbalanced stresses on the carbon bar.

Give me a carbon bar the same weight as an aluminum one and I'm almost 100% sure the aluminum one will fail first. This industry is far from a pioneering one when it comes to carbon fiber manufacturing practices, the motocross world is very much the same. Aerospace and automotive engineers have proven that a carbon fiber structure that is design to undergo continual tension stress cycling will outlast aluminum. The mechanics behind a wing and a handlebar are surprisingly similar when it comes to loading force vectors.
  • 1 0
 Well, I can't argue that reply, very good points for sure.
  • 2 0
 Beryllium anyone? Its all just a matter of the evolution of manufacturing processes.
  • 1 0
 Doesnt mean they cant find an anodization process, or an alloy thats safe. Again, manufacturing is the hold up.
  • 2 0
 I want 3D printed carbotanium. In the enduro spec obviously. Couldn't seem to find that option in the poll though...
  • 4 0
 Adamantium... For sure!
  • 2 0
 your bike would just cut through trees rather than break
  • 3 0
 Please add some to my bones while you are at it. Hahaha
Or what about the metal used in the Predators weapons? That stuff seemed pretty strong and light. :-)
  • 3 0
 I guess I'll be the one wh says steel for frame and aluminum for the rest.
  • 1 0
 Same here.
  • 2 0
 I want it to be all Gold! and in this case i would even accept 29ers! the bigger the better..
  • 1 0
 And a stem that's cut out of the Cullinan diamond. Better diamond tooth the cogs, chain rings and pedal studs too.
  • 2 0
 hell yeah, Diamond cogs would hardly wear, good thinking!
  • 1 1
 "if money were no object " i would have a 650b carbon turner dhr with a green and matte black paint job . ytruth is nothing id put on my bike would exist yet becasue i would get everyone thats does the best for everything .
  • 1 0
 It's all in the design and application. Got my daughter a Huffy beach cruiser for 120$ at Walmart... Humbling and puts things into a different perspective.
  • 2 0
 Diamond encrusted, solid gold and it would be a tandem so my chauffer could do all the pedalling.
  • 1 0
 Every material has different properties. It takes a brilliant engineer to apply these materials to make the lightest strongest parts.
Does any one make a Titanium DJ frame?
  • 1 0
 When they start coating carbon in grapheme I feel like bikes will drop more weight. I also look forward to stanchions coated with it. Ultra slick and scratch proof.
  • 2 0
 All aluminum.. And frame titanium.
  • 2 0
 Plastic. Oh wait, carbon fibre is already there never mind
  • 1 0
 sorry people i would not have a carbon bike given me to ride after seeing a new carbon kona dh snap so easy….
  • 2 0
 Transparent Aluminum. Because cost is of no object, right?
  • 1 0
 Personally, I don't like the sound of carbon. Titanium is an awesome material, so I think I'd go for that Smile
  • 2 0
 Berryllium s'all I'm sayin'... if it wasn't that toxic... Big Grin
  • 1 0
 I chose Titanium, less stronger than Carbon but at least it won't chip and crack.
  • 2 0
 Why is titanium banned in moto?
  • 1 0
 What? is that true?
  • 1 0
 Only full ti frames are I believe. And its because a privateer can't afford a full custom fab'd to frame every year. So it was really just giving the top teams a huge upper hand.
  • 1 0
 I wouldn't think a Ti frame would be any better than Aluminum for that application...for the same reasons you don't see many Ti FS mountain bikes. Suspension negates any ride quality advantage...you just want rigid and light.
  • 1 0
 Where's Mr. Cunningham to clarify why Ti is banned in moto? Richard, at what degree is Ti banned. Seems all the top guys have Ti foot pegs on the bikes... My guess is with z-man. The top guys have Ti bolts and bits throughout their bikes. Ti is one pretty metal IMO.
  • 3 0
 Did you not bother to read the article? They explained it was instituted because of a rash of failed components in the early 80s, when use of titanium and its alloys was not well understood outside the aerospace industry. Hell Titanium only began to be used at all in aerospace work because of Avro Canada and the Arrow fighter project in the 1950s. Until that time nobody used it other than in labratories for anything of note, and the expertise and brain drain that followed after the cancellation by a short sighted government and military brass (as was typical of the period, the USA and UK suffered similar expensive defence project decision waffles) did prove boons to the NASA space program and Lockheed and other US companies. Every structural use of titanium and alloy development since can trace their roots back to the Arrow though.
  • 1 0
 I'd have to dig through the regs, but they specified axles, frame components and, as I recall, H-bars
  • 3 0
 Actually, no, I did not read the whole article...skimmed it, looked at the polls, and hit the comments. If I had known this was a deeeight moderated comment section, I would not have dared.
  • 2 0
 aluminum and titanium baby
  • 3 0
 That would be a cool looking baby.
  • 2 0
 ummmm what? :/
  • 2 1
 in the short future carbon will surely be the standard due to its low manufacturing cost and demand.
  • 2 1
 low manufacturing cost? when did they discover this new process?
  • 2 0
 If costs were no object, I'd be riding right now...
  • 1 0
 If cost were no object I would ride motocross on my own track...screw that freakin bicycle Smile
  • 1 0
 With the mountains you have in Peru. If you built proper mtb trails. The only thing you would use your motocross bike for is to shuttle your mountain bike up.
  • 2 0
 STEEL!!!!! still the best material out there for frames, seriously
  • 1 0
 why hasnt adamantium ever been used. isnt that the strongest metal on earth?
  • 1 0
 I'd be interested in a ti trail bike. 6", RS pike mixed with some carbon raceface.
  • 1 0
 Does the "Cost is not object" include the price of medical insurance for when stupid-light parts fail?
  • 1 0
 honestly just xo carnks and a 380 are the only upgrades I'd make on my bike.
  • 2 0
 no bamboo option for our hipster friends?
  • 1 0
 carbon always breaks will me, i'd have a carbon frame but everything else, aluminum
  • 2 0
 if cost no object would pay off US debt to China
  • 2 0
 Unobtainium!
  • 2 0
 Beat me to it! Good posting - maybe someone will develop some randominium? Pandemonium might also be fun to sit ontop of...
  • 2 0
 I want Graphene !
  • 1 0
 I'm guessing once its used in F1 we will see it. (May already be used in aerospace..?)
  • 1 0
 I want it too, however once they successfully manufacture enough of it to make any useful structure it will still be a long while before the bike industry gets it. Current pricing models put the cost of CVD graphene (the only mass produce-able version at this time) at over $100 per square centimeter (and at only 1-atom thick it would take a LOT of sq cm to make a bike) until at least 2016 and not down to a more manageable $0.10 until at least 2020.
  • 1 0
 How about some Adamantium :p
  • 1 0
 HOW DO YOU RECYCLE YOUR CABON BICYCLE?
  • 2 1
 carbon willl never be ran on my bike
  • 1 0
 steel if weight were no object
  • 1 0
 What no carbon ifused with titanium strands?
  • 1 0
 Carbonfiber with titanium.
  • 1 0
 Yup. Graphene everything, or graphene-polymer nanocomposite stuff.
  • 1 0
 All thing equal strength to weight ratio.
  • 1 0
 carbon, titanium and magnesium. yummmmm.
  • 1 0
 fuck it, all carbon. and by that I mean graphite.
  • 1 0
 where is the bamboo option.
  • 1 0
 If cost weren't an issue then I wouldn't be working but riding. Frown
  • 1 0
 If Cost Were No Object... i wouldnt be wasting time here Smile
  • 1 0
 Carbon all the way, almost there anyway
  • 2 1
 Carbon!
  • 1 0
 Ti for HT, crabon for FS
  • 1 2
 CARBON IS NOT ABOUT "LIGHTNESS". IT'S ABOUT STIFFNESS, FLEX PROFILE, AND DAMPING PROPERTIES.
  • 1 0
 Graphene bro !
  • 1 0
 Chromoly?
  • 1 0
 Scandium !
  • 1 1
 CARBON EVERYTHING
  • 3 6
 Still wouldnt trust carbon as far as I could throw it. Especially for bars......and stem??? Very brave who ever goes down that route.
  • 1 4
 Sooner have Easton Carbon bars than aluminum bars any day of the week.
  • 1 0
 Yep, I just broke a pair of race faces sixc downhill bars last week. Not riding downhill.
  • 1 0
 only bars ive snapped have been deity dirty 30s
  • 1 0
 riding dirt jumps?
  • 1 2
 Carbon bars and alu stem????
Tell me why, please. I dont get that.
  • 4 0
 No bolts need to be threaded into handlebars. Stems typically have between 4 and 6 bolts threaded into them. If we figure out a better way to bolt into carbon, stems will also migrate from aluminum to carbon.
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