Shimano Launches Pro Bike Components Koryak Dropper Seatpost - First Look

 hahahahahaha

 Most of the first dropper posts to hit the market shit the bed within weeks of their first use. Shimano doesn't believe in showing up early to a party half dressed. I for one am VERY optimistic about the dependability of this product

 Yeah, have fun with your early crank brothers dropper.....! You really showed Shimano

 Shimano IS late to the game. This far into it they should have showed up with a di electronic post that moves up and down on its own power. Then for once sram might have to play catch up! But we all know that would never happen.

 Ill bet it's bulletproof. Shimano historically takes their sweet ass time, and it yields results. They also don't appear to care if it costs them initial sales. In the long run, Shimano is consistent.

 Not sure why it posted my reply twice...

 @OGC: I agree with you. I've experienced nothing but reliability from Shimano. When I have encountered small glitches, simple maintenance allowed me to quickly solve the issues.
Their products (the ones I've had anyways ) are quality and easy to maintain.

Had they announced a 150mm offering i would already have my name in the hat for replacing my expensive "works pretty good" when it does work #serviceandbleedfrequently reverb that came too short and stock with my bike before it offered 150mm in my diameter seat tube dropper post.

When Shimano offers the length I want the reviews (positive I suspect) will direct me to my local shop for purchase.

 @OGC: No doubt there have been some awful droppers over the years, but droppers have been out in mass for nearly 10 years. I'm sure like most of Shimano's products this will have great dependability, but for them to wait this long to bring a dropper to market and not realize people want longer travel seems like a miscalculation. I'm sure they would have sold a ton of 120mm drop posts in 2013. I wouldn't be surprised if they cut their prospective customer base in half by only having the post in 120mm.

 @matmattmatthew: I have to agree with you. Without 150mm I don't even consider it personally. I have been either unlucky or reverb take too much maintenance after a season. Maybe I simply hope someone will put out a new post that really hits the mark?

Let's see what gets done and how quick.

 @matmattmatthew: Given your username, I would've expected thrice!

 @OGC: agreed. shimano don't make garbage, others can't say the same

 the shimano pro grips are awesome. nobody mentionned them

 Quality / price / innovation, is the key is succeed on this fighting club of brands, we cannot expect a war like the smartphones, but let's hope that shimano reacts a bit faster than actually does to the needs of us.

 With the single bolt clamp, does the package come with friction paste too?

 @bikeguide: 9point8.ca. work brilliantly, tools and parts for full home re-build can be bought for reasonable price. Excellent 1 x remote.

 Better late than never, and knowing shimano it will work!

 Shimano is ALWAYS late to the game. The important bit is, they only release products when they are actually ready.

 @DGWW: I was also thinking in 5 - 10 years you'll probably be able to find parts for it easily still.

 To be fair Shimano had mess up several times with first batches of products. They fix them and usually warranty works but they don't say nothing, never made their mistakes public. Examples: The new XT M8000 brakes, old XT cassettes.

 @passwordpinkbike: I have read a few comments on this thread referring to issues with the M8000 brakes...what are these issues supposed to be? I have been really liking them.

Is it a design flaw causing issues? Or is it a general thing to do with most folks preferences or something?

 @bikeguide: I'll take a strong and durable 120mm over an unreliable 175mm!!!

 That nylock on the seatpost lever looks rank.

 Even if the post is somewhat reliable, shimano customer service is not. It's going to suck trying to explain the "issue's" over the phone. I'd rather sell the customer a reverb knowing SRAM had your back.

 @gobighitmtb: no doubt shimano takes their time getting to market. Traditionally though, the refinement of their gear makes up for their slower reaction to consumer trends.

I for one am glad that SRAM, and competition in general are forcing the industry leaders like Shimano to innovate. Competition yields innovation and choice which is a win for the end user!

 @cgdibble: the m8000 are presently like a 2009 avid brake. They have quality control issues at a minimum. Possibly design flaws, which has select brakes but a good amount to have inconsistent contact point issues and they can be noisy when properly set up/faced and centered.

 @bikeguide: I agree with both of you. I need a 150mm dropper post, and I am only 5' 9.5".

 @unrooted: That's what she said.

 @takeiteasyridehard: Interesting. I'm stoked that I have none of those issues, but it is certainly something I will look out for/listen for in the future.

 @cgdibble: Random bite points with lever pull.

 @takeiteasyridehard: i have them, and they have a major inconsistency when i am manualing down the street where the brake lever and caliper are not on level ground. it is quite annoying. should I contact warranty or just deal with it?

 My guess is this is aimed at XC riders. Hence the weight saving single bolt option. I'd expect longer versions will show up soon.

 Ever considered that Enduro/All Mountain riding may be more niche than XC and trail riding. ie: there may be a lot more people out there that are quite happy with 125mm. You and your buddies may need 170mm but most of the world doesn't. I'm not saying this is the reason, but I suspect shimano know the market better than you.

 @GeeHad: I dunno, Shimano has missed the market on a few things. Rapid-rise? They also had those god-awful shifters where you pulled up and down on the brake lever to shift.

 @DGWW: Like indexed shifting? Integrated brake and shift levers for road? Like ramped and pinned chain rings and shaped cassettes? Like cassettes? Like clutch derailleurs? Like external bearing bottom brackets? Electric shifting?

They have certainly made errors. Their first under bar shifters stunk. It had two thumb shifters too close together. Integrated shift and brake levers worked for some folks but the market spoke loud and clear and they dropped those.

 @GeeHad: Makes sense. Most people can run a 120 dropper but some may wish for more drop. I couldn't fit more than a 120 in my frame. A 125 Reverb might work but might limit me to saddles with low stack height. There is a market for longer drop though and that should be in their plans.

 Its Shimano, not ENVE: I'm confindent

 @RedBurn: I expected Di2 not Altus

 will be more like a 509$ dropper post

 Ever check out the price on Pro components? Not cheap.

 It looks like a generic Chinese dropper with shimano badge on it... AMIRITE?

 I'll wait for the Deore version then.

 @km79: I'm hoping that deore version is external!

 It's a shame about the cable end nipple being on the lever end. I have ordered a Fox Transfer post which has the nipple on the seatpost end. I would love to use this lever with the iSpec mount instead. Hopefully fox or someone else will release an ispec lever for the transfer. IT's all about the details

 It also looks scarily like a Giant Contact Switch with a different head on it

 My friend on XL stumpy gave me Wtf look when I told him that he needs longer seatpost than 100mm reverb. He doesn't Pinkbike tho...

 @packfill: Do you live in the same world that I do? The world where Shimano's XTR groupset is more reliable, more durable, and easier to use than XX1, not to mention still offering 2x and 3x options all while being half the price? Or where I can get a reliable 1x11 setup for $160? The world where I can get hubs for $50 that with a simple re-greasing and re-tensioning once a season, will literally last me forever? The world where for $120, I can buy a set of the most reliable hydraulic disc brakes in existence?

You can always count on Shimano to be late, but they ALWAYS bring the goods. Sometimes they bring some extra crap that no one wants too, but they always take care of business when it comes to the core products.

 @TheRaven: Would those hubs be attached to super narrow Shimano rims? Can I get a decent level hub with a six bolt pattern? Would that reliable 1x11 setup be running a 11x40 cassette or do you have to modify it to give it a usable range? I know very few people who would even consider riding 2x or 3x drivetrain anymore. I can't speak for the more affordable components, but the last batch o brakes have been subpar. the days of Shimano brakes being the standard for reliability appear to be over. Plus, the servo-wave levers make their brakes feel horrible...nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, oh god, everything is locked up.

I can't believe that I'm saying this, but at least SRAM releases components that people actually want. I'd much rather have the Guide brakes over XTRs, and i'd much rather run Eagle 12 speed over a 2x10 XTR group.

 @packfill: Why does it matter if the hub is centerlock? You can use a $5 adapter if you cannot live with it and build a wheel with any rim you like.
They have a 11-46 XT cassette and you can buy four of those for the price of one Eagle or six Sunrace 11-46.
I personally never had problem with the feel of Shimano brake levers and I just swapped the Guide RS to Saints that I had from last season because the Guides just didn't cut it for me on long descends.
But of course you ride whatever you prefer and can afford there is nothing wrong with that. If you are on the budget or just don't want to spend an arm and leg and you can live without the latest and greatest then Shimano is a good option. I have XO1, XT and SLX on my bikes and I don't have any problems with them.

 @packfill: I have to agree with you on the Guide vs Shimano brake front. I've got Shimano XTs on my trail bike and had Saint on my DH bike last season. My wife got a bike with Guides and they absolutely blow my XTs away. Ended up getting a great deal on Code calipers and Guide levers to put on my DH bike and...never going back to Shimano brakes. I like being able to feather my brakes when it gets dusty.

 @packfill:

"Would those hubs be attached to super narrow Shimano rims?"

Only if you want them to. If not, just buy the hub separate.

"Can I get a decent level hub with a six bolt pattern?"

Sure! See model number HB-M756/766/776/786.

"Would that reliable 1x11 setup be running a 11x40 cassette or do you have to modify it to give it a usable range?"

You can choose actually, 11-40, 11-42, or 11-46 factory, expandable up to 50t aftermarket. How many options does SRAM have?

"...but the last batch o brakes have been subpar. the days of Shimano brakes being the standard for reliability appear to be over. Plus, the servo-wave levers make their brakes feel horrible...nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, oh god, everything is locked up."

By who's evaluation? Because you've seen some issue threads on the internet? I can tell you that the new brakes are just as reliable as the old brakes...they really haven't changed much. As for modulation - you have your choice. If you like the super hard on/off brakes (like most of the guys I ride with do), then you want the "Trail" style (XT M785, XTR M985/988, Saint M820). If, like me, you rank modulation over power, then you want the "race" style (SLX M675, XTR M987, Zee M640). Again, your choice.

"I can't believe that I'm saying this, but at least SRAM releases components that people actually want. I'd much rather have the Guide brakes over XTRs, and i'd much rather run Eagle 12 speed over a 2x10 XTR group."

Maybe SRAM releases components that YOU actually want. YOU have no idea what "people actually want". I'm sure you get your daily dose of MTB news on the internet, and reading through the comment sections you deduce that everyone is riding 1x11 with a Pike, X2, and Reverb. I can certainly see where you would get that impression. But that's not even remotely close to reality. 2x and 3x drivetrains still outsell 1x by several orders of magnitude. That being the case, Shimano has positioned itself best. It has 1x for the Enduro crowd and 2x/3x for the XC crowd (which is the bigger crowd by a lightyear). Maybe 1x is the future, but right now 2x and 3x are still selling like crazy, and we can't say for certain that 1x will ever be the standard across the board.

 @kanasasa: you must ride a lot better than your friend does?!?

 @TheRaven: yep

 Centrelock is better than six bolt, plus you can use those awesome dinosaur discs. You can't get them in six bolt!

 @TheRaven:
@packfill:
Sorry for bothering you both but I will ask you (maybe not only you but everyone who will read it) a question I've been interesting at for a long time. I ride cheap Shimano Olivio 1x8 transmission front - 36t narrow-wide chainring, rear - cassette 11t...32t. I have a all-mountain hardtail and I ride light street-trial (wheelie, bunnyhops) and all-mountain style on local trails... So sometimes I need to climb on a 35 degree (or even bigger) angle slopes (more than 200 meters long), and sometimes I need to ride 40 km/hour/25miles/hour (or even more) on a flat. So I have never had necessity to extend ranges of my transmission. Sometimes I think about increasing it's (transmission's) durability but ranges - never. So my question is what kind of style do you ride according to your needs of 400% ranges of your transmission? Thanks. And this is not a joke or some kind of a trolling it's just about I am starting to think that I ride in some kind of a strange way that I don't need stuff all the other people need.

 @ivankvkharkiv: it's because you're actually fit! That's why you don't need the ridiculous gear ratios currently available. I've ridden bikes for 20 years and it never surprises me how unfit and crap most mountain bikers are. 36 at the front and 40 at the back. Tbh 40 is too much but God knows what you use a 50 for.

 @ivankvkharkiv: No problem, good question. I am 6'2", 205lbs fully geared up and have been riding for 18 years. I'm certainly not Lance Armstrong in-shape, but i'm a religious runner (5k at least three times a week) and I ride generally at least twice a week. My rides vary from 5 extremely technical miles to 20 nice flowy miles.

My AM rig has a 32t N/W and an 11-42 cassette on 27.5 wheels, and it's JUST enough low end to handle the trails it sees...this bike doesn't generally see LONG climbs but it does see very short climbs that approach near vertical in spots (like a 5ft high rock that the trail rolls over)...and I need the gearing to be able to start from a dead stop on 45 degree or better slopes. On the other end however, the 32t-11t combination is more than sufficient as this bike rarely sees much in the way of real speed. So on my AM bike, the huge low end is for clearing very difficult obstacles.

My Trail rig has a 32t N/W and an 11-45 cassette on 29 wheels. This has worked well for the trails it sees. This is the bike that sees extended climbing on a regular basis. 20-30 degree grades for miles. Generally I will climb in the 36t or 40t, using the 45t only to clear large log and root hops, but i'm pretty sure i'd be walking if I didn't have that 45t.

It's not a matter of fitness in many cases, people ride very different trails and one guy's definition of steep is very different from another's. There are many places that just don't have the steepness, or maybe have the steepness but not the duration. I can tell you this, i've seen racers that run 50+ mile events end up on their 24/34 combo by the tops of a couple of the hills I ride (I can see that because i'm generally walking at that point). And then of course there are those who just need the range because they use one bike for everything - the low gear to clear the extremely technical obstacles and the high gear for the fireroads.

The real question is - why is this even a concern? Anyone who doesn't want to run a 400% range can simply run something smaller...and cheaper. Why sit here and complain it exists? If you can get away with an 11-34 cassette then that's awesome cause you save like $1000 on drivetrain. Doesn't sound like anything I would complain about.

 @jaame: As a guy who used to have centrelock and is now using all ISO, I have to agree. Centrelock is frikin fantastic and I can't believe we haven't gone largely in that direction.

 @mikelee: Big thanks for paying attention and your answer. Your answer clarified a lot for me! Also good luck!

 @TheRaven: Well it is not about "complaining" at all... You see, I ride every day in summer when it is not rainy. I know that in England it rains more often, so in Ukraine it rains 2 times a week in very rainy summer and once a month in very dry summer. So the last summer there was one month during which I rode to work only on my bike not using any other kind of transport. Besides I forgot to tell that I ride to work on my bike during the summer and sometimes I ride after work a bit longer then only one way home And according to the time I ride and how aggressive I ride I thought that my needs were to be the same as those of the most riders but they were not... So I just felt strange and when I saw your conversation about extended gears I thought if you tell me how you use them I could understand why I don't use them ... So actually you clarified everything so big thanks to you. And I have very short climbs that approach to near vertical on my trails too, but I usually have an opportunity to speed up before them and climb them on a speed but not on a gear. Big thanks for your explanation now I feel good.

 @TheRaven: weirdly i can feather (modulation) my XT brakes, never skid on dusty trails ( unless i have to) and stop hard too, guess its about you controlling the bike, so i rather not have sram brakes, due to their history

 @ivankvkharkiv: you need gears? i know guy who just cycled the world (Markus Stitz) , single gear , he doesn't need gears, that other people need.

 @mikelee: maybe you are fit? or live somewhere not like wales

 @lesz42: Yes I need gears. I was just wondering for what kind of a riding people need such a big ratio of gears... As you can see from my previous posts I ride a lot on different kinds of trail with big slope climbing and others and I don't need ratio bigger than 300-350%.

 @ivankvkharkiv: It really depends on the places you ride and your fitness. You are lucky you don't need bigger than 300-350% ratio that means you don't need to spend a lot on drivetrain. When I ride in the mountains I use all 420% of my 1x11. The occasional big slope and the 5-10km long 10-15% rocky climbs are a little bit different and for me it took a while to convert to 1x11. Use whatever suits your needs we have better selection than ever which is great.

 @ivankvkharkiv: in your post, you asked whats your style, how about age, fitness, ability, muscle type? all of these dictate what sort of gears you need or want, Markus Stitz would say that he needs only one gear, but he only cycled the world 31000K in 12 months

 @lesz42: I consider myself fit! Ex marine and all. I ride all over including Wales. Mostly on the moors around Devon. Plenty of hills and challenging terrain. But fitness is the key. Changing gears when it gets hard stops physical progress. I always tell people if you wanna get fit,run! Don't cycle because it's easy to just change gear when the going gets tough. With today's ratios it's even easier,28t with a 50t rear. I'd struggle to balance the bike due to legs flying round!

 @mikelee: i cannot run, bad knees, work related, and on the odd occasion, i have stressed my knees a bit too much, and need time off the bike ( 3 months! ) but i think just getting a lot of hours in helps

making it easier with gears, is no different to having lighter bike ( i did a road event, 66 miles in the peak district, on a 30 pound + hybrid ) would of been back least 90 min quicker if i had a lighter bike, was murder on the climbs ( 6500 feet +)

 @lesz42: I understand what you're saying. Im just stressing cycling in general is not a good way to burn calories or get fit due to the time and distances involved to really push the body. I'd say at least 60-100 mile rides on a road bike. About 20-30 off road with a good deal climbing involved. A light bike helps but if you're 15kg over weight then it's pointless saving weight on a bike. I ride for fun and go gym for fitness. Half hour on a rowing machine will tone pretty much the whole body,engaging all the major muscle groups and will increase cardio levels through the roof. Oh and it's very low impact! Half hour gym is better than 5 hour road ride surely.

 @mikelee: did some gym, but found it soulless, used to be 15 stone plus, but since started cycling, i range 12 stone to 13, been down to 11 but felt unwell ( and i am diabetic)

but did enjoy the rowing machine!

 @lesz42: 15 stone is pretty big for riding,I'm 13 and that's good for me. In the marines I went down to 12.4 which was perfect for being strong and able to run big distances. Gym is boring but I've trained for 20 years so it's like breathing now! Just go in and get it done. The upper body strength is helpful for holding bike at speed and dealing with big crashes.

 6ft here too, with a longer 175mm or 200mm post you can slam the seat and ride it like a DJ bike in the low setting, and xc bike in the high setting. For xc racing or general trail riding if the post only moved 100mm what's the point? May as well save a pound of weight, run a rigid, and get behind the seat for any tech sections.

 The bike I bought this year was literally the first one I've owned that would fit anything longer than 100mm.

 all the bikers i know are 6 foot and under. the majority of bikes are size large and medium. 120mm should be enough for the majority of riders and yet every comment is bitching about 120mm. when releasing a new product, its much easier to start with one version to get a feel of what the buyers are experiencing with the new product rather than releasing a million options and what if the product sucks and now you have 10 different variations of the same product being returned and you dont know why. shimano are some smart fuckers, they will release the 120mm. people will either love it or hate it and if its good, out come the 150mm and whatever the hell you 7 foot giants need

 I just mounted a new Fox dropper about a month ago to replace a Reverb. I went for 120mm. I must be old though because I just raced an enduro where half the time I didn't even have it at the bottom of its travel. Somehow I managed to huck the jumps and drops without crashing. My tail whips were probably sub-par though.

 @Kitejumping: that's completely ridiculous- a 100mm dropper is a thousand times better than a rigid post. yeah, it's not as good as a longer one, but it's a huge upgrade. heck, i would take the extra weight of a 50mm dropper if that's all that was available

 I noticed this too. I'm 6'5 and require 150mm at the very minimum. But I would assume most people don't.

 Being the owner of 2 very good and constantly performing 125 drop reverbs and 6'1, I dont need longer drops. Maybe folk are riding bikes too big for them but I can get my seat out of the way to do jumps, tech dh sections etc. Thats a narrow tiny diameter to be bending back with 15 stone on! Thats why seat posts are a bigger diameter. But as usual, thats my preferance and as shocking as it is, we all like differant things done differant ways.....

 @xeren: on an XC race with 3k to 5k of climbing if taking a one pound weight penalty on the climbs for a dropper post it better drop all the way out of the way on the way down. I'm sure they work great for shorter people or smaller frames.

 @Kitejumping: who said anything about racing? i'm talking about the riding that we do 99% of the time

even if it is in racing, you can get the bike below the weight limit very easily, and then add the weight back with the dropper

 @pigit77: Completely disagree there.

My brother and me have identical M sized Remedies and he has the 125 mm KS Lev and I have 150mm Reverb stealth. I'm 175 and he is around 180cm tall. There definitely is difference and we both agree that 150mm is way better than 125mm because as Kitejumping said, you can slam the seat down when going full on downhill and raise it back when going uphill/level. You just have more choice with a longer drop than a shorter one, and the longer one doesn't get in the way like a shorter does when things hairy.

 @Archimonde: I'm 6'2" and with a 150mm dropper "slammed" I wouldn't be able to reach the pedals at full height on either of my current bikes. 125mm is even really high, but then I imagine i'll appreciate that on the climbs.

I rode a 2016 E29 recently with a 125mm CP IRCC and it was bordering on uncomfortably high at full extension. Furthermore, I found my bike handling on descents to be significantly worse with the seat all the way down. I picked a middle setting and left it there for the entire ride. This is consistent with my other rides on demo bikes with droppers. I'm sure I would get used to it and eventually come to appreciate the dropper, but I just can't muster up enough enthusiasm to buy one yet.

 @xeren: There is no bike weight limit.

 @afflicted: there's not? well, either way, we weren't talking about racing

 I'm 6ft5" and 125mm dropper works fine for the very steep local trails here on Commencal Meta AM.

 I'm 6'2" and 120 drop puts my saddle at the same as as my DH bike.

 @pigit77: have you tried a 150mm drop? I bet if you did you may feel different. I've yet to go 170, but I do not regret my 150 and the extra maneuverability when you want it, or use whatever level you want. Its just there when you need it, and makes you that much safer/controlled at times.

 @TheRaven: I'm not sure if I understand correctly. Don't you adjust the default/maximum seat height by having the dropper extended all the way up? So I don't understand how you can say that with the dropper fully extended you couldn't reach the pedals?

So even if you have say too much of a drop (seat post is too low for some reason) when going downhill, Reverb at least gives you a drop limiter clamp so you can clamp it. Of course, pretty much all the droppers have "infinite adjustability" so most people don't need a clamp (I actually never saw anyone having it).

But I would still argue that the longer drop in general is better than having a shorter one. Of course, someone might need only 10cm of drop and don't want the weight of a longer dropper or similar. But if someone is say buying a dropper it is better to go with a longer one by default. Moreover, generally speaking, it is easier to make something longer shorter than something short longer.

Also having a post at the same height the whole ride kind of defeats the the purpose of the dropper post. Probably I'm misunderstanding something. The dropper post is something I would have a very very hard time adjusting to if I didn't have it. I use it absolutely all the time when I can.

 @TheRaven: do you sit down a lot when descending?

 @Archimonde: You are wrong when you say you should go longer by default on droppers. the shortest (common) dropper size will still get the seat 4 inches lower than at full extension. Maybe less than you want, but still useful. But if you slam a dropper collar all the way to the clamp, & the saddle is still too high, you're either having to push the saddle back down a little every time you raise it(& not getting the same height every time) or if you have a post with set positions, you're either hoping the middle position does alright, or you're stuck with the fully dropped position.

Droppers are like forks, you can't just stick an extra long one on every bike. they're a fit item just like bars or stems. Since I have a fairly short (30") inseam, many bikes that fit me don't have enough exposed seatpost at a comfortable pedaling height to account for 125mm of stanchion plus the extra 20mm(or more) of seal head.

 I'm 6', perhaps with slightly longer than average inseam, but I run a 150mm Reverb (with zero maintenance issues in two Whistler years) on my large Patrol and have plenty of post sticking out the frame and I'd love to slam the saddle if I could. Next year's Patrol will have 175mm for sure, but I long for a reliable 200mm option.

 It really depends more on your leg length in relation to the rest of your body and the design if the frame you are riding. I'm relatively short at 5'9 and am riding a 125mm dropper on my reign. However I have long legs compared to my height. Which means for the correct length bike I am a long way above it. I have 50mm of post showing between the collar and the frame and while the 125mn does the job a bit more drop would always be nice

 Same heigh, don't have dropper post yet, but considering that I want to buy one while choosing I stopped on 100 mm or 120 mm dropper as I tested to put my seat down and up I don't need more. Thanks for your review, now I even more sure that I was right in my presumptions on what to buy...

 @Kitejumping: Sorry man but assumption that you can ride XC on DJ bike with high post sound like you never seriously ride any of those styles...

 @Archimonde: the thing is you shouldn't be slamming it down for dh duties! Maybe a couple of inches drop max. Look at the pro's dh bikes and the seat is pretty much level with the bars!. You need your seat for control on the downhill stuff. I'm a downhiller and always will be and no I ride more trail with a dropper,I can honestly say my post has two setting,pedalling and descending. The height difference is about 2.5 inches! I'm 6ft 13.5 stone. That allows me to do anything on my bike.

 @ivankvkharkiv: I never said xc on a DJ bike, with a slammed seat on a trail bike (in my case an Intense spider), I can bunny hop it over a 2 ft log easily. That would not be possible with a high seat in the way.

 @mikelee: I think it depends on the DH trails. If you're racing rock gardens or on a pedally trail of course the higher post helps. If you are on DH trails with jumps it's just more fun with a lower seat. Speaking of pros, DH racers have higher seats, but the bikes at rampage have much lower ones.

 @Archimonde: Ok let me clarify. If I install a 150mm dropper on my AM rig, and set the collar all the way down (so it's resting on the seat clamp), I cannot (correctly) reach my pedal at the 6 o'clock position when the post is fully extended (at 150mm extension). A 125mm post at full extension is at road race height (like a virtual mile above the bars). A riding buddy of mine was all excited when he ordered his 150mm Lev, and I warned him that it's probably too big (based on my measurements) and the first text I got on the day he received it was "holy crap this thing is high!". He wishes he had ordered the 125mm instead.

I fully understand that you can get the 150mm drop and just not use all of it, but what does it matter? Why complain about 100mm and 125mm posts then? The smaller posts are easier to find and sometimes even cheaper.

As for "having the post the same height the whole ride" defeating the purpose of the post - that's exactly what I was getting at. Neither of my current bikes have a dropper, and every demo and rental that i've ridden that has had a dropper I didn't end up using it because I didn't like it when I tried it. So why would I buy a dropper then?

 @takeiteasyridehard: Not really. I use my saddle to help position the rear of my bike on technical descents. I clamp it with my legs while shifting my weight back...this helps me to kick the rear around on turns, and gives me a stronger hop when I have no room to preload. Having an inch or maybe two drop from level-with-bars height is fine (but really only a help for climbing). But dropping the saddle 4" or more is a huge detriment to my riding.

 @Kitejumping: Then I didn't understand you correctly... besides I also do bunny hops on All-mountain bike

 @TheRaven: you sound like you have shorter than average legs for your height. Leg length and seat tube height relative to bar height are also very important factors.

 170 rules

 @TheRaven: interesting. Like others have said, it just surprised me you prefer the shorter post...

 Has anyone considered riding style? For example: I would love a 170mm dropper (I use a 150mm KS Lev Integra), so I could slam my post on descents and jumps. Reason being; I like to get light on my toes and essentially bring the bike up on rough sections. Same for jumps; having learned to ride on dirt jump bikes, I'm used to having no seat under me unless I'm climbing.

 @TheRaven: On my Patrol, I have the post out a few millimeters beyond minimum insert (so danger zone) for max extension when I'm climbing, and the saddle is way above my bars (like to the point people comment on how freaky it looks). If I then drop that 150mm post, it's barely beneath my bars. For average riding I can ride with it like that fine, but for anything seriously steep or with jumps, I have to manually drop the reverb in the frame before riding. It's all personal preference, riding style, and the trails you're on. Even with post down further, I can still leverage it with my knees if needed, but I need it the heck out of the way for a lot of what I'm pointing my wheels down here. I throw my bike around a lot and am seldom in a straight line to the frame and the dropped post gives me lots of room to move, or angle the bike around beneath me.

I think that's what it comes down to: I have quite long legs so I need the reverb maxed in the frame to get the saddle high enough for climbing, which means when it's dropped to minimum, it's still not very low.

 @Hwulex: I have the exact same situation. People have told me to learn to ride with the seat non-slammed but I find it sucks for steep terrain and jumps. Is there a solution? Cause I'm seriously over having to manually adjust my dropper post at the top of most climbs, before the descent. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a dropper post. A new frame that fits a 170mm dropper post appears to be the only option, issue is I am unsure which frames (160mm travel AM/enduro bikes) have a long enough seat tube, my medium 2016 Giant Reign Advanced 1 does not.

@mikekazimer @mikelevy @RichardCunningham

 @Hwulex:
@jervis
Ditto and I'm on a 170 reverb already....

9point8 have finally got their 200mm post available...so there is an option

 @jervis @Travel66: Transition Patrol mate. I've got a 150mm Reverb in mine and easily have 2" of post above the frame, even with the conectamajig attached which if I removed (it's optional) would give me even more internal clearance. Thinking of getting a 200mm 9point8 to try it out.

To give you folks an idea of my post heights: extended and lowered. Bike on a tiny bit of an angle, but when reverb is lowered my saddle is actually still above my bars, hence longer post required.

 @Hwulex: a commonly overlooked measurement would be how far down in the frame a post can sit. Internal clearance like you suggested. Dropper companies need to figure out how to make the lower portion shorter to fit more frames with the longer travel seatposts.

 My hopes were actuated when I saw it was cable driven, and I further hope this post will rise its calling.

 It's a let down, but not as much as I was hoping for.

 i used to use a thin spread of climbers chalk on my specialized command post to keep it in place, but i agree its a weakness.

 that's definitely a no-go

 This is a show stopper. A single bolt clamp doesn't belong on any bike IMO. There are many advantages to a 2 bolt system.

 Single bolt clamp is a third world standard. They should adopt to the Modern American Body Standard (MADS). More bolts pls.

 The only way I found to stop my single bolt system from moving on my road bike is using blue locktite. So on a mountain bike I would not even think of using that system.

 Killing me softly

 @karoliusz: Killing you shortly

 That's what she said.

 Would need 150mm

 @mudmandhbrazil: Ok cool

 There is very little advantage to a electronic solution for this application. I would expect something in the future though, along with a 150 option since it would tie into Di2. The cable actuation is extremely reliable however.

 @ka-brap all the talk about Di2 controlling other components, & yet, they release a dropper that doesn't work with it. I'm dissapointed.

@atrokz I wholeheartedly disagree. Di2 integration(& the shock integration they promised being actually available) would sell this post for me. All I've wanted since they announced Di2 for MTB was a left hand remote that does the following:

Bottom lever controls dropper. drop post all the way down? automatically open up shock compression. Post goes all the way up? automatically put shock in mid compression setting.

Top button does one of two things(I'd have to ride it to see which one I valued more, or maybe it can do both via short press/long press.) It either: toggles climb mode on the shock, or: it drops the post to a defined mid drop position. hopefully one I can define myself.

 Cool. those are all cool reasons, but I doubt an electronic remote will suddenly be able to perform a drop or have a linear encoder for positioning itself at the cost these will be. You can disagree but the reality is what we are left with, which would just be electronic actuation, not positioning (unless a linear encoder is implemented, not cheap to implement), which has no realistic benefit unless the actuation is too hard for ones hands or potentially wireless which just adds more complexity.

I think multiple 'hot keyed' buttons would be cool as well, mainly for controlling suspension.

 @atrokz: Oh, I agree that the positioning part is hard with a hydraulic post, but we've seen lead screw post prototypes at trade shows for a few years now. the added bonus being that they don't require you to weight the seat for it to drop. the defined mid drop position is more wish than reality.

However, everything else I mentioned? doable today, with current Di2, (though I admit the actual availability of electronic controlled shocks has been terrible.)

& again, the benefit to electronic actuation is the integration. Though you do bring up a good point about actuation: Geoff Kabush said the easier actuation of his ICD "slider" thing made a real difference when he was at redline, so it's not just about it "being too hard."

 yea, a ballscrew system could work but would be slow to actuate (unless your motor is very strong and there's low friction in the assembly), but it's definitely more heavy. There's definitely more than one way to do this, and there's probably someone working on a unique solution as we speak.

Having a port on the frame to plug into, which has internal leads and ports along the frame for different components would be pretty cool. I'm not a fan of wireless in this application thanks to my Mfg Eng experience with military systems, but a variety of ports and a simple port into the head tube area would be pretty cool.

 IF they made it wireless, like the Magura, then there are 2 key benefits for me:
1. There is one less cable in or on my bike. That's always welcome.
2. I can easily swap that setup from my XC bike to my trail bike and vice versa. I don't need to buy multiple dropper posts for my quiver.

IF it was wired, then it would appeal less to me and offer no real improvement over my current dropper.

 @ka-brap: Wireless seems great for the average consumer, and there's no doubt the cycling industry will push it onto consumers, but take a moment to think about any mechanical/electrical/hydraulic other system that uses wireless within itself. Cars don't have systems communicate wirelessly, as it's a huge lack of risk mitigation. Jets all have redundancy backup systems of their electrical systems. No wireless. F1 uses data transfer wirelessly (highly regulated by FIA to avoid hacking) but all systems within the car are hard wired. It's the fastest and most fail-safe way to design a system with the highest degree of risk mitigation. Agree it would be simplistic and cool, but if your entire system is operated wireless, it won't be long until people are hacking the signals. Ant+ is hackable as it stands, with a smart phone and some coding. Obviously you can't develop a system based around hackers, but there are problems with wireless beyond that.

Imagine getting into your car, start it and it sends a wireless signal to the starter motor. Shift into gear and it sends a wireless signal. Depress the gas and it sends a wireless signal. Adjust the mirrors? Wireless signal. Same for motorbikes as they are closely related. Imagine wireless shifting on anything but a bike.... Imagine how long your job at ________ would last if you came up with these ideas. Not very long.

 one mini backshell connector into the head tube and run outs where the components are would be the best and coolest option, imo.

 @atrokz that's a bit of a straw man argument. I was specifically referring to wireless' limited use in the dropper post arena, not in equipment where my life would be put in danger should it fail. Simply because it is not suited for those applications does not mean it is not well suited for a dropper post. Also, I highly doubt I need to worry about hackers messing with my dropper post. Are there risks for wireless technology in other products/other walks of life- no question. But those risks are of very,very little consequence to this topic.

 @ka-brap: well, as far as current examples go, wireless seems mostly a liability in droppers. The Magura has a noticeable delay, according to those who've ridden it. That's a dealbreaker, IMO.

Also, a wired system would be almost as easy to swap. When all you have to do unplug is a wire, disconnecting/reconnecting a post would take almost no time. It would be a little more expensive since you'd need to have to remotes set up, but if it's hooked to Di2, then that's just an extra wire off of your junction box.

Not that the argument that people are going to swap droppers between bikes makes much sense to me: adjusting seat angle takes far more time than disconnecting any of the cable actuated posts that actually have a disconnect. heck, even a reverb connectamajig is pretty quick.

 @ka-brap: not really. This is technology that will be implemented in the racing scene where money is paramount and results affect $$$ thus generating a higher probability of potential intrusion attempts (last stage, rider passes hacker with jamming signal, no shifting for climb, easy. You can buy good jammers online). The consequences are high, and of very, very consequence to the topic that is cycling. Maybe not for you, but for others.

 www.digikey.ca/en/articles/techzone/2011/aug/comparing-low-power-wireless-technologies wifi parsing is what SRAM was using IIRC.

www.thesignaljammer.com/categories/GPS-Jammers

 @groghunter which is why I would like to see some competition against Magura. More competition will necessitate the kinks being worked out. And if you make simple markings on your seat rails and post, you can change angles very quickly and easily find the settings you need.


@atrokz: IF you belong to small percentage of dropper post users truly concerned about this, then there are 10-20 alternatives currently on the market that will suit your needs. Most non-competitive cyclists (the vast majority of users, especially those who actually pay for products not get paid to use them) could care less.

 @ka-brap: Even with competition, wireless means I have more batteries to charge. I don't mind plugging my bike in, but if I had wireless shifters & dropper? that's 4 different batteries I have to worry about(unless I'm night riding.) & because the batteries have to be integrated into the part, they're smaller & need charging more often.

I still favor a hybrid solution overall: Wires between the components, batteries, & controller, but wireless for the shifters to eliminate the wire routing from the bars.

 @ka-brap: it should be a concern to the racing market which is huge. Esp in road. But thats just one disadvantage. As groghunter is mentioning, its also adding an unnessesary layer of complexity and unreliability all for the sake of removing a cable or tiny wire. Its more than just the flaws of wireless.

 @groghunter: The Magura system sucks. It's such a bad implementation that one has to wonder why they ever released it in the first place. It truly sucks.

 Agreed. I would expect to see this on Deore-level bikes where you wouldn't expect to see a Transfer or a Reverb.

 The biggest issue for me is lack of travel and the single bolt clamp. I have have never met one that actually worked for long.

 That leaver looks like it belongs on a Wal Mart bike

 @mtbman1980: The single-bolt head on my Contact Switch has been OK. It takes a pretty big hit to get it to creak and I've never managed to actually move the angle a noticeable amount. It did suck to take apart/reassemble to change cables, though.

 @Facingtraffic: yep, zero problems with my contact switch's single bolt

 @Facingtraffic: oh wait, you're talking about the bolt for the saddle rails - yeah, mine kept slipping, but carbon paste fixed it, no problems since then

 @xeren: I'm a big guy 220lb and a two bolt clamp is simple and stronger the single bolt ones just don't stand up overtime.

 @mtbman1980: fair enough, but as I said, once i applied carbon grit paste, i haven't had a problem, but Giant has since changed them to a more standard clamp, so the point, for Giant, at least, is moot anyway

imgur.com/a/FAIKF

 Damn it! So close. Single bolt clamping is first gen dropper post design. Shimano took their sweet time getting to this party so they should have side step this. Happy Shimano is in the game now, but i'll wait for the second gen where they move to a 2 bolt seat clamp design.

 @xeren: Yeah. I'm relatively light, though, at 165lbs so as with anything YMMV. I also have the thing torqued down to high heaven which I probably wouldn't do if it weren't just holding my stock, cheap saddle.

 @Facingtraffic: nail meet head. This post is for lower end bikes.... Serves a purpose

 Why would you want to go all #shimano? Looking to do a retro build? hahahaha

 Yes the cable orientation is my major gripe with this type of post. Clamping at the lever seems the obvious fix, I can't see why they would do it this way. You can operate the post with your fingers if the cable snaps, but thats not really the point and the fixing barrel is very easy to lose (probably tricky to replace as well). My best guess is because of a worry about fingers and frayed cable ends in close proximity.

 lol. That reminds me of the Chevy Nova, and how it it was hard to market in Spanish speaking countries since "no va" means "no go" in Spanish.

 Just like your taint after that saddle bolt breaks!

 @jdendy: Let´s not talk about the Mitsubishi Pajero (meaning Masturbator)... they changed the name to Montero...

 @Davichin: lol. I never knew about that one.

 Fancy a swap for a reverb with 125mm travel?

 Agreed, still a lot of demand for shorter dropers. Frame constraints come into play quite often for shorter folks.

 No. That's just good business having replacement parts ready and available on release. What we have come to expect from Shimano.

 The 9point8 Fall line has the same design, and yeah it's pretty sweet.

 dingding, looks a bit different, different travel too, but the whole bike biz is intertwined.

 It looks like it uses the same gas strut, but those are used in all sorts of other industries. Just as likely that Shimano saw that Giant's is far and away the most reliable dropper, and copied the design.

 I had to wait 18 weeks for mine (ordered mid March, received in August). I hope yours gets to you more quickly.

 Your wishes have been granted - all Giant Switches can be run external (you need a 8mm hex to turn the internal chamber around) and from 2016 the Giant droppers have two bolts. BTW, I've run all but the first generation Switches using internal cable routing and haven't had a single problem.

 @iamamodel: Very true! I love the new Switches (even the old ones were pretty good). I was saying the Koryak Dropper should have the external option. I'm really tall so even with a dropper I like to lower my seat post for longer DH segments and that can get annoying with internal cable bunching up at the bottom of my seat tube.

 @InsaNeil024: I see what you mean. Looks like you are getting a Switch then.

 and wears the shit out the the frame!

 I've been riding for over 20 years now and I've adjusted my saddle height less than 10 times whilst out on a ride. My post height is dictated by its logo usually and that's where it stays.

 @turbohippy: cant stand up and hammer on Steep descents

 Depends if your going to hit the jumps, I have a 29" inside leg but need 120mm dropper. If I was riding XC a 70-90mm would be better because you can hit that perfect 'trail flow' position every time, no need to slam the seat.

 My thoughts exactly - pair it with a Reverb and the BikeYoke DeHy doohickey and you have a very neat iSpec mounted dropper lever. Brilliant. I could be tempted by the whole package but I like the Reverb, I know it. And as much as I'm definitely a Shimano fanboy I do rate Rockshox suspension products...

 Will almost certainly also come with a bar clamp. Alternatively you could use a hacked shifter.

 Badly

 Nevermind, just saw there's a vertical lever as well...

 Yes I agree. Even giant went away from that clamping style because it moves on anyone over 160lbs. I would consider this post if it had am apposing 2-bolt clamp instead...

 my M8000 drive train works great, and modern brakes, maybe you are the embarrassment.