Solving the Dropper Post Dilemma

Sep 14, 2017 at 17:09
by Richard Cunningham  
Transition Sentinel
Transition Sentinel
The best dropper post has the longest stroke you can run on your particular frame: The low seat tube height of Transition's size large Sentinel allowed PB's Mike Kazimer to enjoy the benefits of a 170-millimeter RockShox Reverb. Not all of us will be that lucky.


Ask your local mountain bike dealer what length dropper seatposts are available and the answer will most likely be, “125, 150, or 170 millimeters.” With dropper posts, more is always better. If you crave steep, technical descending, you’ll probably want to get as low over the bike as possible. If you’ve purchased a trail bike with rider-forward geometry, you may have noticed that effective seat tube angles that are near or exceed 75 degrees require a longer-stroke post to achieve an optimum pedaling height, while still dropping low enough to be comfortably stowed for the downs. Trouble is, depending on your body or your bike, you may not have the option to choose a longer dropper.


Transition Sentinel
The infamous bent seat tube is popular among frame designers as a means to clear the rear wheel at full compression and to position the middle of the tube to support suspension pivots. Both strategies encroach upon the distance that the seatpost can be inserted into the frame.

What goes up, must come down. The lower section of dropper seatposts must be able to contain the telescoping length of the post, as well as the actuation and sealing bits. So, like the proverbial iceberg, there is always more dropper post lurking below the sliding bits than above – and most of that lower section has to be stowed inside the frame. Some frame designs have S-shaped seat tubes or suspension-pivot ingress that restricts how deep the post can be inserted or, if your frame has a tall seat tube, a long-travel post may still place the saddle above your pedaling height at full insertion with the seal-head slammed against the clamp. You may want that 150-millimeter dropper, but be forced to settle on the 125-millimeter option for reasons beyond your control.

It’s an equation that favors tall riders, for sure, but short people aren’t the only ones who are affected. Medium and large-sized frames are typically spec’ed with 150-millimeter posts (Some large and extra-large sizes come with 170-millimeter models), which often results in a situation where the rider is only five or ten millimeters above his or her comfortable saddle height with the seatpost slammed as low as it can go in the frame. The obvious solution is to downsize to the next smaller post. If it’s a new purchase, most bike dealers will do that for you. If it’s a used bike, it will cost you a lot of money – which begs the question: “Instead of being forced to downsize 20 to 50 millimeters to a shorter-stroke post, wouldn’t it be great if you could simply adjust the stroke of your existing post in small increments and get the maximum drop?”

bigquotesIt's difficult to define the right seat tube length and get the right mix between height and lowest position. This is a reason why the Reverb is still so much in use at OEMs. The Reverb has one of the shortest insertion lengths.Andreas Haimberger, Eightpins
RockShox Reverb seatposts
A week's worth of 170 and 150-millimeter Reverb seatposts, all removed from new bikes. North of the Border bike shop replaces the droppers with shorter ones to fit their customers and sells the take-offs for half their MSRP.

Ibis Mojo H3
My Ibis Mojo 3's 150-millimeter Reverb post is exactly at my ride height when it is pushed as far into the seat tube as it will go (the upper suspension pivot blocks further insertion). The bike arrived with a 150-millimeter stroke Fox Transfer post, but its base was ten millimeters longer and I couldn't ride it.

User adjustable dropper posts seem like a good idea to me, but I don’t manufacture droppers, nor do I design the frames they are intended to fit, so I did some research and asked a handful of component makers who do to weigh in on the subject. To my knowledge, only three dropper post makers offer user-friendly adjustments in some form. 9poin8’s Fall Line dropper is internally adjustable with spacers. Eightpins and BMC have integrated posts (built inside the seat tube) that can be adjusted either for stroke or maximum extension. Integrated posts are included in this discussion because the concept could offer customers both adjustability and longer travel. Here's what I discovered:




9point8 Fall Line

The 9point8’s Fall Line post is designed to be internally adjustable by adding plastic top-out spacers, which are available in 4, 8, and 25-millimeter lengths. The process entails disassembling the seatpost, but the mechanical internals are simple to work on and there is no messy hydraulic fluid to deal with when you crack it open. They offer a detailed instruction video to simplify the process, but if you don’t want to fuss with that, 9point8 offers its droppers with strokes from 75 up to 200 millimeters in 25-millimeter increments. An easy-to-read chart lists both the fixed and telescopic lengths of the Fall Line range, so you can order the longest possible stroke for your particular frame.
fall line post sizes
9point8's chart illustrates how much insertion is required as the stroke of their Fall Line dropper post increases. Blue is minimum insertion, while green would be the adjustment range available if the frame allowed for full insertion. Yellow is the distance from the seatpost clamp to the center of the saddle rails (the adjustable part).
9Point8 Fall Line review test


About the Future: Jack Pittens, 9point8 Co-Founder

What are your thoughts about future dropper seatposts being built into the frame?


As with most changes, there will be pros and cons with a frame-integrated dropper post. We believe that there should be an interface standard across as many brand of droppers and frames as possible, and that they should be backward compatible, so that conventional droppers or fixed seat posts can also be used so the consumers have the choice to configure their bikes as they prefer. We generally feel that the benefits of integrating a dropper will be incremental and not revolutionary. For example, if the goal is to have a dropper with a stiffer stanchion tube, the larger diameter desired to achieve this could be accomplished by going to a larger seat tube size (say, 34.9mm) and does not require an integrated post to do this. If the ultimate goal is weight savings, then yes, there are incremental benefits to integrating the dropper.

Is there a need to standardize some basic seat tube diameters and minimum insertion lengths?


One thing everyone would benefit from is published maximum insertion depth for the dropper in the frame for each specific size! This would be so easy to do. It’s just another dimension on the frame geometry drawing. This would complement dropper manufacturers that similarly publish dimension and fit information on their droppers, and it would help the consumer more readily determine what length and stroke can fit their bike. Though not standardization, it would benefit the aftermarket consumer immensely.

In a perfect dream world, we’d love to see all bikes have nice straight uninterrupted seat tubes that extend to the bottom bracket, and do not have water bottle bosses or suspension pivots intruding into the interior, so that the length of dropper uses is not restricted. The reality is that nearly every bike brand has their take on the optimum frame and suspension design and many of these do not play nice with long droppers. Through natural selection, the market will determine how important it is to accommodate longer stroke posts.


bigquotesFunny you should mention the adjustability of the posts. I recently built up a new Chromag Surface. The 175mm stroke Fall Line seatpost had too much stroke for me to pedal properly. I opened it up and put in our stroke spacers; I put three, 4mm spacers in to effectively reduce the stroke from 175mm to 163mm. Now I'm at proper pedaling height and I can also have the dropper slammed into the frame. Win-win.Phil Szczepaniak, 9point8 Ambassador

9point8
Presently, 9point8's Fall Line is the only commercially available dropper with an adjustable stroke. Any number or combination of plastic top-out spacers (4mm spacer in this photograph) can be added to fine tune the extended saddle height.

Fall Line Notes:

Positives: Conventional design fits all popular brands. Available in a large number of stroke options. Can be user-adjusted with a low-cost spacer kit. Mechanical operation simplifies disassembly process for garage mechanics.

Negatives: Conventional configuration requires up to 300 millimeters of precise insertion in the frame. Small-diameter stanchion is flexible.



Eightpins dropper. Photo Eightpins Stefan Voitl Eightpins


Eightpins Integrated Dropper

The Eightpins dropper offers what may be the most promising solution for the future. The Eightpins dropper is integrated into the frame, so you can’t have one unless your frame is customized to accept the internal mounting, or you purchase a Liteville – they’re the only manufacturer who offers the option at this time.

The mechanically-actuated Eightpins post is inverted, meaning that the larger-diameter section of the post is the sliding part that supports the saddle. The smaller-diameter section of the dropper is anchored inside the frame’s seat tube with a simple through-bolt and, up top, a seal-head replaces the traditional seat post clamp. One of the benefits of this arrangement is that only the first 100 millimeters of the seat tube (where the seal-head is inserted) requires a precise fit. As long as there is sufficient clearance for the Eightpins‘ internals, the rest of the seat tube can be shaped any way the designer wants it.
Eightpins dropper post
Eightpins offers its dropper cartridges in four lengths.

Eightpins addresses the adjustability issue with a 4-millimeter bolt located under the seatpost clamp which reduces the height of the post at full extension. The manufacturer installs the longest stroke post that will fit inside the frame, and once the customer has established his or her maximum saddle height, the upper section of the post is cut to the ideal length that will allow it to retract all the way down to the seal-head. The two adjustments ensure that the customer always gets the maximum stroke: the perfect pedaling height and the lowest possible dropped position. Eightpins offers frame makers four stroke-lengths, ranging from 150, to 225 millimeters, so there should be enough wiggle room between them to ensure that every customer can properly ditch the saddle when the moment arrives.

Interview with Eightpins' Andreas Haimberger

What advantages does the Eight Pins design offer in the realm of adjustability to both the rider and to the bike maker?


As you mentioned before, our system is capable to adjust height and travel separately. Riders benefit from the lowest possible saddle height in dropped position and maximum travel. And the bike maker can sell a bike which can be fully adjusted to the customer without any compromises like the choice of a shorter travel version instead to a longer one to provide more adjustability.

The maximum travel for the system is defined by the seat tube length, the position of the Postpin mounting point, and the needed insertion length of the seat tube in the frame (100 to140mm). This will be optimized for each frame. If a rider needs less seat tube pullout than the available maximum travel in the current frame, travel can be reduced with spacers. Without travel reduction, the seatpost head would bottom out onto the seal.

What modifications would bike makers need to do to switch to integrated dropper posts?


To provide the maximum travel and adjustability, a straight seat tube is needed. In case of Eightpins, the ID of the seat tube has to be 34.9 mm, and the Postpin mounting standard has to be provided. Our setback version gives the bike makers more opportunities to work around bent seat tubes to reach the goal of clearance for the rear wheel.

Would it be possible to standardize integrated post mounting so customers are not wedded to one single supplier or design?


Sure it would be possible. It´s just a question of the willingness of the dropper post manufacturer to agree on one standard.

Eliminating the start-up expense of tooling frames for integrated droppers, are the manufacturing/OEM costs the same for a conventional dropper post?


In the case of Eightpins versus a hydraulic dropper post they are not. Our system works mechanically and the parts are more complicated to machine.
Eightpins dropper post
The slender, lower section of the Eightpins post is anchored to the frame.

BMC Trailsnyc dropper posr
Establishing the correct saddle height no longer requires a seatpost clamp.

eightpins dropper post
Eightpins' large-diameter seatpost element can handle more bending stress, so they offer a set-back saddle clamp to provide frame designers the option to offset a straight tube, forward of the bottom bracket for tire clearance in lieu of using a curved seat tube.
A hydraulic dropper post has mostly round parts which makes production easier. We are working on efficient machining processes to reduce the costs and make the product available to a wider bike spec. We see a hydraulic gas spring as a compromise. This technology works best in an office chair with linear movement. A seatpost is a part which gets bent during riding and in most seatposts the hydraulic gas spring is part of the structure. This is not a good environment for an integrated hydraulic gas spring.

Is the integrated dropper the best solution for future mountain bikes?


After more than 120 years of squeezed seatposts, it´s time to replace the old technology of seat clamps. So many things changed on bikes. Now it´s time for something new in the area of seatposts. We don´t see a way to solve the adjustment and travel problems with the current seatpost design. From our point of view, an integration is the best way to overcome these problems and make mountain bikes better.

Eightpin Notes:

Positives: Most promising new concept for future mountain bikes. Stanchion tube can be trimmed, and maximum stroke can be adjusted separately to maximize seatpost drop for every rider. Integrated design allows for a larger diameter, more rigid stanchion tube while reducing weight. Elimination of external seatpost clamp seals frame and reduces sliding friction.

Negatives: Post is dedicated to the frame (The seal-head can be removed from the Liteville and replaced by a standard seatpost and clamp). Frame design is restricted to straight seat tubes, which may not play well with some linkage configurations.




BMC Speedfox 01 2018
BMC's Speedfox debuted their built-in Trailsync dropper post, which eliminated the traditional seatpost clamp and introduced the concept of using the dropper post's action to operate the shock's low-speed compression dial. Post-up engages pedaling mode. Post-down opens up the shock for descending.


BMC Trailsync Integrated Dropper

BMC is newest to the adjustable dropper game, with a frame-integrated design that they debuted on their 2018 Speedfox. Instead of adjusting the “Trailsync” dropper post’s stroke, BMC designed a slip-over saddle clamp that offers 25 millimeters of vertical adjustment. The upper part of the mechanically operated BMC dropper is a simple tube that can be cut shorter with a hacksaw if 25 millimeters of adjustment is not enough to achieve your correct ride height. Should you sell your BMC to a taller rider, the internals are bone-simple to access, and reportedly, full-length replacement tubes will be readily available. Presently, the BMC post is limited to 100 millimeters (insiders say that longer stroke versions will soon follow), and the Trailsync system will only appear on BMC products That said, the Trailsync post is worth a closer look in this context.

BMC’s Trailsync post is mechanically actuated by a spring-loaded pin that locks into preset holes in the telescoping tubes (Gravity Dropper comes to mind here). The simplicity and field-proven success of its mechanism ensures a measure of reliability, and because there is literally nothing but air inside the sliding tube below the saddle, it can be trimmed to suit the customer’s pedaling height without reducing the stroke of the dropper mechanism.

Unlike the Eightpins concept, which was intended from the start to cross-over to any number of frame
BMC Speedfox 01 2018
A seal-head and bushing replaces the seatpost clamp and a sliding segment under the saddle micro-adjusts for optimal ride height. BMC's Trailsync dropper post is also linked to the shock's remote pedaling lever – but that's another story, altogether.
designs, the Trailsync's external, spring-loaded indexing pin apparatus might prove to be problematic for some frame configurations. That said, Trailsync appears to be a viable alternative to fixed-length droppers with a user-friendly adjustment system.

bigquotesReception of the Trailsync system on our new Speedfox has been very positive. The system has been met with tremendous curiosity and has led to countless conversations at trailheads and on shop floors about integration, simplicity, and how we ride. It’s a conversation that BMC fully embraces and is happy to lead. We see our role in the industry as bringing innovation to the table that helps enhance your experience on the bike. In the mountain bike sphere this often means a focus on pedaling efficiency; something that’s often left on the backburner as companies pursue more downhill-oriented goals. The reality is that very few of us have the luxury to avoid climbing or pedaling on our rides and, given existing technology on bikes (propedal, lockouts, etc), we’re leaving a lot of that efficiency on the table in the name of chasing the descent.Devin Riley, Director of Marketing – North America

BMC TrailSync dropper post
The simplicity of BMC's built-in dropper is apparent here. The gold device (left) is the pin that indexes in holes drilled in the dropper stanchion.

Trailsync Notes:

Positives: Promising, lightweight design alternative is linked to the shock's remote pedaling switch. Upper saddle height can be adjusted separately by trimming stanchion tube, or via the sliding seat clamp attachment without affecting the dropper's stroke. Super-simple pin-type dropper mechanism should last a lifetime. Integrated design seals seat tube and provides a large-diameter, more rigid stanchion tube.

Negatives: You can only get one if you buy a BMC, and if BMC abandons the concept and the post fails, your frame will be worth scrap prices.




Fox Transfer seat post
The Fox Transfer post is rapidly becoming the most respected dropper on the market, but it is not designed to be user adjustable.

Fox Racing Shox: Three Questions for Mark Jordan

How important is user-adjustable travel to Fox and your customers?


It is something we are aware of, but I don’t think it’s a problem for most riders.

Some bike makers are saying that, in the future, dropper seatposts will be built into the frame. What are your thoughts on this?


It’s a great idea and will probably happen one day. But it will most likely require the use of a specific brand/model seatpost because all of the most popular posts are very different.

Frames vary wildly as to how far the seat post can be inserted into the seat tube. Is there a need to standardize some basic seat tube diameters and minimum insertion lengths?


With most bike brands using 30.9mm or 31.6mm and offering as much insertion as their frame design can handle, it’s probably as standardized as it can be. One step further might be to settle on one seatpost diameter and look at what it will take to go to a bigger drop. But an XC bike has different requirements than an AM bike, so it may get complicated when considering what is lighter vs. biggest seatpost drop possible.




RockShox: Duncan Riffle talks Reverb

Is a user-adjustable Reverb on RockShox's radar screen?


Everything is on our radar. Are we working on that? I can't answer that question. It would be great if customers could micro-adjust their dropper travel, but I think we have that covered with all of the options that we offer now. We have a multitude of insertion lengths for our Reverbs that ideally, should cover most riders and frame designs. If a rider is caught between sizes, we should have enough insertion options so he or she will only be sacrificing ten or fifteen millimeters, not twenty or more.

What are your thoughts on supplying bike makers with an integrated dropper system?


Wolf Tooth ReMote Sustain
As a brand, we are always looking into improving our technology. If that is something our customers are looking into, then we're looking into that as well. One thing we have learned over time, however, is that we won't bring in a new technology until it is proven by us and up to SRAM and RockShox standards.

With the popularity of convoluted seat tubes on the rise, maximum insertion depths are all over the map. How does RockShox deal with this?


We would be extremely happy if there were a set insertion depth for certain frame sizes, but that may never happen. You probably know as much as I do that part of the frame building design process is the art of it. Every designer has a different idea of how their creation should look. After you work out all the elements that keep it from breaking, the next step is making it not look like an alien contraption. You wouldn't want to restrict that because of some minimum insertion standard.


Pinkbike's Take:
bigquotesStating the obvious first, dropper seatpost makers have just begun to produce reliable products, so it would be a stretch to assume that the majority of customers will embrace a bike purchase that is dedicated to one specific dropper design. The need for a user-adjustable dropper post, however, cannot be denied, so the logical next step would be adding that feature to conventional posts and tackling the integrated concept down the road.

That said, integrated droppers offer both bike makers and component manufacturers a chance to break free of convention and tackle issues like user adjustability, eliminating flex, simplifying the mechanisms, and maximizing the stroke of dropper posts without the complications created by having to fit all those improvements into a 31.6-millimeter hole. Dropper posts have become a fact of life for trail riders, but the perfect dropper is still waiting to be invented.
RC



254 Comments

  • 310 36
 No. Just no. The best post is not the longest one. This is a rookie mistake. Or maybe an old man like RC's mistake. It's not an accident that minnaars seat isn't slammed. Sure he's tall. But your seat is part of controlling your bike. It needs to be at the right height. Not the lowest height possible. And all you people who just run your dropper post all the way up or all the way down. You're missing out on one of the best parts of a good dropper. The fact that you can put it anywhere. All different kinds of terrain benefit from all different seat heights.
  • 19 19
 Another downside of a too long dropper is that it's harder to pedal with it dropped too far. There are moments where you just want to rest pedal through a section without putting the dropper up It's fine with a 125mm dropper but a 200mm or whatever would be like pedaling a little kid's bike. But I agree with the premise of adjustable stroke droppers. I think my perfect drop would be about 135mm.
  • 63 32
 I hear you guys, but a tall dude will soon chime in and school you, which basically boils down to: because 1% of population will find long droppers useful, your argument is entirely invalid.
  • 10 0
 @jflb: you are correct, but having a post with incremental adjustment would mean you could have it at optimal pedaling and optimal "thigh control position." Win win!
  • 18 0
 I have three positions for my dropper. Fully up is pedal pedal pedal. Fully down is don't pedal, then I have to find the third position which is about an inch maybe 2 tops below the top but this is my ideal position for pedaling downhill. I still have power to pedal a bigger gear, and the seat is low enough where I can comfortably bunny hop. I'd be more interested in finding a dropper post that could find my third position easily.
  • 5 0
 I totally agree with you man! People trip out when I complain about my 125mm Reverb having too much stroke and don't get the idea that moving the bike with your seat is a massive control point. Definitely keen on getting a FallLine and being able to fine tune the height for that very reason.
  • 23 11
 Minaar is also the size of a horse, and using him to make your point isn't really the best idea in the world. Also, downhill bikes and trail bikes have completely different geo, and if a trail bike fits you well then a slammed seatpost often will be at said "controlling" height.
  • 16 18
 @churchburner: bullsht, look at Danny Harts bike, seat to bars position compared to a trail bike with slammed post. I've had enough of these discussions. Some people will always see more as better. Fair enough. Just don't rationalize too much
  • 13 1
 True I guess, but it depends on how you commonly use your bike. Dirt jumpers have the lowest seats physically possible and if you're jumping your bike you want that seat as gone as it can get. For light downhill I agree that it's nice to have the seat somewhere in between. For steep downhill, you want the seat gone again. If you can't slam the seat it can be a problem depending on how you use the bike.
  • 26 13
 @WaterBear: XC racers. Not even World Cup. We have a few teenagers here riding with the seat up their arse and they will shut up any too-short-dropper Whiny Willy. They can rip pumptrack, drop off, huck to flat, ride down insane steeps in slippery conditions. I still advocate for droppers for XC but my awful assumption is that too-short-dropper crowd should simply learn to ride in balanced position instead of hanging with their butt too far back
  • 10 5
 I want my bike to climb like a xc bike, descend like a dh bike, and jump like a DJ bike. Maybe time to figure out how to tailwhip a dh bike.
  • 8 3
 Some people free ride, trials and dirtjump as well as ride up and down hills. As a daddy long legs only a 410mm laid back on a small frame with an uninterupted seat post has ever sufficed. A seat can never be too low for bunny hopping or jumping unless you do seat pinch tricks.
  • 6 2
 Wait a minute... with all the advancements in last 4-5 years, mountain bikes aren't perfect yet? Shocking!
  • 4 1
 @chyu: it's easy mate, just spin the bars at the same time, I use them as a lever to get the back end round sometimes.
I tought semenuk how to do it, he'll be doing it at rampage this year
  • 19 22
 RC is so out of touch it's hilarious.
  • 33 6
 Folks always make the Minnaar argument and it's flawed:

1) We're not all as skilled as him. I'll take any advantage I can get when the sh!t hits the fan on 35%+ steeps, which leads me to #2

2) The dirty little truth is WC courses are not steep. Most average around 20% gradient. That's not taking anything away from them. Some have gnarly bits and when it's balls out racing everything becomes gnarly but they are not steep compared to a lot of the stuff in BC or Laguna.

20% gradients are pretty damn easy with a half mast seat and indeed you want the seat for control and even some pedaling. However, when it truly gets steep I want the seat as far away from me as possible. I've seen folks size down on frames just so the seat can go lower. If you don't ride 35+% steeps you just don't know what I'm referring to.
  • 3 13
flag whitebullit (Sep 15, 2017 at 16:20) (Below Threshold)
 @skelldify: must be hard for him though coming from all those years spent writing for magazines, pinkbikes a whole different beast, and times they are a changin
  • 14 0
 The best post is the one that works when you push the button, and it comes back every time.
  • 11 3
 It's like buying a computer: People only see that 3.55GHz is more than 3.45GHz and immediately want that one, barring any other mitigating factor that might render that spec moot.

170 is bigger than 160, so 170 is better.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard bigger numbers be heard as better on the shop floor. It's sickening.

"Bro, the hardtail XC bike I bought last week only has 100mm of travel. Can you throw a Lyrik on it?"
  • 49 10
 Aah f this.
What's the problem with all this angry people "you don't need this (learn to ride)" same as "you don't need 42t cog (grow some man legs)" ?

190cm guy, 47cm seat tube with reverb. I love it when it's slammed, and for controlling my bike I can have it ~50mm out. Then for pedalling flat it's at max extension, 150mm. For steep uphills, 220mm out is perfect, so seat clamp here I come.

Why should I compromise going up or down?
World cup racers don't slam the seat, but : rear wheel clearance; they don't have a dropper so they choose a compromise to also be able to pedal seated (actually some have droppers); and oh they're racing. I'm not. I want to have fun, and than can include wanting to try to bunny hop and I can tell you I need all the possible help to do that.

XC riders have it very high.
Trial guys have it very low.
Saying one of the extreme positions is useless all the time (=you never need it) is saying to one of those rider categories "you're stupid".

Oh, and let's add some credibility to my speech : I'm a guy who rides a 44t chainring with 11-23 cassette up and down the Eiffel tower twice every morning before laughing at Richie Rude's ridiculous power meter results.

With droppers, more is better. If you disagree, you must have a tiny penis and always believed the "oh don't worry size doesn't​ matter" consolations from your partners.
It does matter.
Luckily, I can still have fun with a shorter than ideal post, and you can still have fun with a smaller than ideal dick.

Ffs.
  • 9 0
 @jflb That's great you feel that way. RC was simply stating the maximum and minimum heights riders may desire. Which include very steep terrain where the body needs to be as low as possible and the normal seated climbing. Please feel free to leave the seat in the middle of its travel for typical trail riding!
  • 3 2
 Thank you! I was wondering if i was the only one to prefer average size dropper posts.
  • 7 1
 @jflb One day you'll learn to get comfortable with the seat all the way down.
  • 2 0
 Agreed. I look at the top photo and the seat is about knee height on that rider with cranks level. I am pretty close to that at 125 drop. I am only 5'5" but long legs 31 inseam. I could only fit one more cm of dropper in my bike. I don't think lower than my knees really would do much. Sometimes I rest my thigh on the seat when I corner. Sometimes I rub th tire with my butt on deep drops so again, I don't see the need for me go longer. Longer legged people would probably benefit from a a greater but proportional drop. That said, someone was showing a 250 mm dropper! (Or something really long) that to me sounds like a bike too small for the rider. No need to have the saddle mid shin.
  • 6 1
 Then don't drop it all of the way.
  • 8 0
 So I guess Richie Rude, Jerome Clemente, graves depending on the bike are all rookies? They don't slam their posts by accident.
  • 14 0
 The beauty of an infinitely adjustable post is you can set it wherever you want... so you can have it an Minnaar height, or have it DJ low. I think the point of RC's statement is that having the widest range of options is better. I personally have ALWAYS felt like droppers were too short until getting a 200mm 9.8, I use to always have to adjust my seat height manually with the QR lever before throughout a ride. I don't always ride with the full 200 dropped, but I like to have the option for DJing and steeps. Options are better, because everyone is different.
  • 3 0
 @tcmtnbikr: I'm with you man, to be honest on my DH bike I'm more likely to not need the seat as low because bike parks just don't get that steep and it's more about using the seat as a control point at speed (on most trails) but out in the woods on my Knolly I love having a 200mm dropper (I'm 6'5) so that I can get that thing all the way down for those steep techy shoots and not take the seat to the gut when I'm on generally the worst part of the trail possible.
  • 1 0
 For general downhill and steep riding I dont feel like i gain anything much by having the saddle below bar, I how ever also like to do trials-trail sort of riding and slamming the seat Lets me tuck a bit more.
  • 5 9
flag WAKIdesigns (Sep 16, 2017 at 0:53) (Below Threshold)
 More options are better is a flawed argument in case of dropper posts. You need room for that long dropper. The idea that it would be cool to have dj height frame yet be able to put it at XC height is unrealistic. Most frames these days, especially 29ers require interrupted seat tube. Push towards longer posts will simply compromise frame design and dropper durability. Smaller bushing offsets for droppers at ever more decreaseing angle, increasing leverage and offset. All with decreasing insert length into the frame.

Then Long posts for long people is an argument as valid as ebikes are good because disabled people can enjoy mtb. You can rationalize your more is better as much as you want, long people are fully entitled to have their say and enjoy it, but if you think that 200+ dropper demand is going to stay away from medium and Small sized frames you are fooling yourself. So you are with idea that bike makers won't use the "our bike accepts 210mm dropper in Small" as a weapon to fight each other. Meanwhile all this brings absolutely no effective gain to 80% of bike population.
  • 1 0
 you're right, I have only 120mm of travel (brand x, faultless so far, only 6 months in tho) and at low point it is perfect for pedaling thru turns etc. which I actually think is the best advantage of a dropper. Get yer arse over the back for the steeps.
  • 2 0
 Quite a sweeping statement, waki.For me 150mm is enough but I do run my seat lower (relative to bar height) than most of my mates, probably because of my bmx background. Tried to keep it a bit higher which felt nice on the flatter parts and even while jumping but I couldn't hang off the back enough on the steeps.
  • 3 4
 @bonkywonky: I tried a ht with 170. Awesome as long as you lower it on even ground. Otherwise slamming my bum all the way down messes up my balance. Look I won't cry over this, i just hope it won't make for short seat tubes and flexy alu front triangles on trail and enduro bikes
  • 3 5
 @bonkywonky: and one more thing. If you hang back on steeps you are probably doing it wrong. If your arms are close to straight, you Are doing it wrong, if they are bent at least 45 degrees as point of departure it's ok. I mean sht between 30 and 45 degrees steep... But what do I know. Not trying to be a dick, just a tip Wink
  • 1 0
 @tcmtnbikr: I agree.. I know a few guys riding a size too small bike... like a 6ft guy on Mediumr Race Strive... they need 170mm long dropper at least..
  • 1 2
 @tcmtnbikr: There are two types of school here, I belong to that where the saddle don't have to crash your balls, while have to stay enough high to be able of controlling the bend of the bike with the external knee.
  • 9 0
 I ride all of the DH trails around here on a hardtail so I guess that means nobody should have a DH bike right?

That's a ridiculous statement right?
That's what this argument is like to me.
"i don't need 200mm of seatpost drop because x y and z therefore nobody should have it"

everyone has different wants/needs
  • 2 12
flag WAKIdesigns (Sep 16, 2017 at 8:57) (Below Threshold)
 @Buggyr333: i like reading about Hitler
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns: So the strongest front triangle is when all sides are more or less equal in length? A bmx bike must be the extreme in bikes with short seat tubes. Does that mean the bmx is inherently flexy?
  • 3 0
 As someone with only 1 bike the super long dropper post is super helpful. If i want to pedal with it all the way up i can, if i want to use the seat post for control i put it half way down, if im riding something super steep or im trying to fit it in the back of my truck that has a canopy on it i like to be able to get it all the way down.
  • 8 1
 The fact is, most people that frequent and comment on PB are likely shit at riding in the grand scheme.

Minnaar is constantly referenced in these conversations, yet hardly anyone is his height, nor is a DH bike relevant in this conversation. It's simply fact that WCDH tracks are not exceptionally steep, and almost all of them have some pedalling...

Look at the EWS guys, who by the way are the RELEVANT riders in this conversation...news flash: hardly any DH rider is running a dropper.

When you're riding trail/AM/"enduro" bikes on DH tracks, as many of us do, having your seat even lower is valuable.

Sure...plenty of the trails I ride don't require my seat to be slammed. That said, lots of people are running one bike now as opposed to multiple for different applications. If you have more drop capability, it can ONLY be a positive. If some of your flowy/less steep trails require less drop, or you like to control the bike with your seat...then you can adjust accordingly. However, if you have a short dropper and want to shuttle DH laps on your AM bike (either because of circumstance or maybe it's your only bike)...you're going to end up manually lowering the dropper.
  • 4 0
 @Someoldfart: i am almost a foot taller than you... i am jealous 125mm work for you but be assured longer travel makes sense with longer legs... its not about having the saddle down by my ankles, it's about bending my knees the same angle as short people... its simple trigonometry.
  • 1 0
 I'm pretty keen on about 300mm myself.
  • 8 0
 @freeriderayward: I am looking forward to attaching my saddle directly to my BB.
  • 1 1
 @michibretz: Yes, finally some common sense in the comment section! That's a rare sight these days.
  • 4 7
 @WAKIdesigns: what the f*ck are you doing giving literally ANYONE advice...

m.pinkbike.com/video/412637

This is exactly the type of keyboard warrior that comments on PB more than they f*cking ride.

It would be nice if we could actually have productive conversations on this site about gear etc...not possible when you know that the guy on the other end of the conversation is a literal scrub.
  • 5 5
 @nvranka yaaaawn... wait... constructive conversation? On Pinkbike comment board? Ever heard of a forum where people actually do ask legitimate questions and get legitimate answers? Last time I checked Pinkbike comment board was a dreadful Pub full of drunks throwing sht at each other. I like your passion. I literally don't give a fk. Thank you for putting me in the spotlight. Love it.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: In all fairness, you probably don't see those same guys sending a 25 foot table. And with regards to downhill use, if there were some advantage to having the seat that high, downhillers would be doing it.
  • 1 0
 @oldmanjoe: nailed it !!!!!!!!! same here dude
  • 3 1
 @WAKIdesigns: frankly I was shit housed when i wrote that last night so you're right...
  • 1 3
 @nvranka: i just need a trusted source of weed, I'll relax and leave you all alone as soon as I get it. Hostility towards my person is not only understandable and well grounded but also necessary
  • 1 0
 @oldmanjoe: Look into the Specialized Command post, it came stock on my Enduro and does exactly what you're talking about. It's not infinitely adjustable, but has 3 fixed stop positions - bottom, top, and 80% up. It has been very reliable for me as well, would recommend it.
  • 3 0
 @tcmtnbikr: the frame size conundrum is very real for many tall guys as a lot of seat posts are way too long on XL frames....only recently have some frame manufacturers started reducing because of this problem.
  • 1 0
 @oldmanjoe: that was the doss.
  • 1 0
 @oldmanjoe: Fox tried that with the DOSS, remember
  • 1 0
 @oldmanjoe: exactly. I'm similar but my positions tend to be:
top: it's urban assault day!
slightly lower: all around trail riding
lower, near bottom: dropping/downhill/jump

if I could pick these 3 spots and just have them, I'd be fine
  • 2 1
 Sorry jflb, but I have to disagree. I ride a SC Hightower, in XL, though I would like an XXL. I am only 6'3" tall (not a giant). I run a 200 mm 9.8 dropper, and paid handsomely for the pleasure, just so that I could slam my seat. I am not an elite rider but I have been riding mountain bikes for 20-some years, growing up in Whistler and now living in Squamish. When I'm riding a jump/flow trail, I want my seat slammed. When I'm riding steep tech, I want my seat slammed. In fact, I typically only use an intermediate height when on a rolling up and down trail. Am I an anomaly? Sure. Could I be faster if I raised my seat and only ran a 170/175 mm post? Sure. Am I most comfortable in the air and on steeps with my saddle as far out of the way as possible? Yes. I am a consumer, and I demand long post strokes so that I can attain the setup which is most comfortable, and most confidence inspiring, for me. So yeah, the best post for me is the longest one.
  • 1 1
 @keillor: spot on
  • 1 0
 If you can put it anywhere, then having the most stroke possible is to your advantage, you can keep it a little up to maintain thigh control, or drop it all the way down when it gets steep so you don't end up with a crotch full of saddle
  • 39 1
 Related: can we get all relevant dimensions (max/min insertion, overall length etc) added to all dropper post reviews from now on? And maybe a table that gets updated with each review to allow direct comparison.

Some good thoughts and observations in this article though! Integrated dropper a la Eightpin but with some hot-swap capability in case it craps itself would be the holy grail.
  • 39 0
 It would be great too if frame manufacturers published dimension on maximum insertion in the seat tube to help consumers determine what will fit in their bike.
  • 5 0
 That would be great @jackp!

Vital shared quite a bit of information on some of the most common droppers post dimensions: www.vitalmtb.com/features/Vital-MTB-Face-Off-The-Best-Dropper-Posts,1762 but it certainly didn't cover all of them.

I would love to see a company make a minimal collar to rail height dropper post. That would enable me to be able to ride any XL frame the way I want (steep and gnar.) For most posts, you have to add 2.5 or so inches ontop of the already 20.5" seattube length. That gets tall real quick. If they could make them where the collar to rails is 1 inch or so, that would make life soo much better for us tall, aggressive riders.
  • 4 6
 @jackp: Agree with you. One thing to consider is how far deep they reamed the seat tube. I bought a 200mm 9point8 post for my large Kona Process 153. I measured it beforehand and it should have fitted properly. But it turns out Kona does not ream their seat tube all the way down. Now I'm stuck with 20mm excess length and Kona doesn't care.
  • 3 1
 @Loche: I ran into the same problem trying to put a 150mm into my small Process. I reamed it out myself.
  • 4 1
 This list of dropper information is only half useful though if bike companies do not share their max seat tube insertion length. Those bits of information would be gold when used together!
  • 3 0
 Secondtimeuser:Good idea - like an insert that was the same dimension as the seal-head for an integrated post but has an external clamp and was sized for a standard dropper?
  • 1 0
 @Loche: Is it that Kona doesn't ream out the seat tube or that they have butted tubing for strength?
  • 3 0
 @Loche: I'm not sure how this is a Kona issue. Looking at the 9point8 chart above, unless you had it at the most minimal insertion possible, the 200mm is clearly too long of a post to fit in a LG 2016 153 frame, I just measured my frame to confirm. Why would any manufacturer care that you didn't measure, and bought a post too long to fit in your frame?
  • 5 2
 @woofer2609: I believe all metal bikes (at least the aluminums) are reamed after being assembled and welded, because heat from the welding distort the tubes. Kona provides a reaming depth specification to the manufacturer.

@ScandiumRider: You are right. I measured it from the outside and the distance from the cable entry port to the seat collar matched my need (I don't need to have my dropper slammed all the way down). My mistake is that I wrongly assumed that the seat tube was reamed all the way to the bottom cable hole (which would make sense in my mind). By "Kona doesn't care" I meant:
- It would have been easy for them to provide a maximum insertion length based on their reaming specification.
- I contacted them, but they don't have a longer reamer and doesn't really care about my issue.
- A warning to other pinkbikers to consider the reaming depth of their frame.
  • 3 0
 @Loche:
I have a 153 too and tried a 200mm fall line (from one of my other bikes) and it would not fit, not because of the reaming, but because the stealth routing port was too high to allow the post to go low enough. The post went down all the way to the stealth port, but that was not low enough for me with my very long legs (it's a 560mm post for f*cksake)

175mm post fit fine.
  • 1 0
 @Buggyr333: @ScandiumRider @Loche
Same problem here with a medium process 134 : distance between the cable routing port and the top of seat tube is too short for a 150mm Fox transfer or xfusion manic slammed to the collar...
  • 1 0
 @gnralized: same problem here, I just re drilled the port lower, fox transfer 150 slammed in my small Process.
  • 1 0
 @dirtworks911: the article is a good effort but some of the numbers are not that clear.

Taller guys like me (not the tallest) caught in the XL frame long seat tube trap may be interested in these slammed heights:

Bike yoke 160 appears to have just 40.5mm.
The KS Lev Ci 175 comes in at 49mm and the KS Integra 175 at 50mm.
The 9.8 175/200 posts comes in at 60mm.
A 150 or 170 reverb has slammed height of 65mm bottom of collar to seat rail.
  • 2 0
 @Travel66: Thank you for those numbers! Wouldn't it be great if everyone pushed to keep the slammed heights of their seat posts at 40mm or below?! When initially designing them, it wouldnt be that hard to do. Now since many of them are a reality, it's much more far-fetched.

I'm partial towards the smoothness and consistency (laugh here is you want) of the reverb but riding that 65mm weight makes it nearly impossibly for me to ride most xl frames the way I want to. I just ordered the Yoke for my ibis HD4 in xl to see how it feels. It's got a 19 inch tube length which isn't a struggle but is far from the norm of 20-21 inch xl frames. At least riding it will help me see if there's hope for being able to ride other xl frames.
  • 33 3
 Did your bike come with the perfect dropper post? The answer for 90% of people is no, because Reverbs are specced on so many bikes.
  • 7 0
 Absolutely. Looking to buy a new bike at the moment and they all come with Reverbs which I'll immediately swap out for a Revive.
  • 3 0
 @mrtoodles: Funnily enough, I am in the process of doing that. Waiting for my revive to come in and then I'll be removing an almost brand new Reverb.
  • 3 1
 @mrtoodles: In my experience, sell it immediately while it's still new, you'll get the most for it, and buy whatever post you desire! I love my 2 Fox transfers so far.
  • 13 0
 I don't know. My reverb has only failed a couple of times in the past 2 days. I think their quality control has finally caught up.
  • 2 0
 As soon as my E-Bike come in I won't need a dropper post. Can't wait!
  • 2 0
 @neologisticzand: Did that a few weeks ago. I love the Revive so far. Blows the reverb (and transfer on my other bike) out of the water! So smoooooootthhhh!!
  • 19 3
 Serious question: if more drop is ALWAYS better, as the article states above, then why aren't all WCDH riders running their saddles completely slammed in the frame? Or absolutely as low as they can go without tire contact at bottom out?

DH bike checks: www.pinkbike.com/news/36-downhill-bikes-of-crankworx-rotorua-2017.html
  • 5 4
 Different seat tube height and angle and seat angle? I ride straight vertical occasionally. When did you see straight vert on a downhill track? Down hillers sometimes sit down pedal and use the seat while cornering. They might compromise clearance for this. They also wear pretty tight fitty kit. Cross country riders can get behind their seats cause the don't have to worry about catching their baggys.
  • 7 4
 Because DH bikes have different geometries than trail bikes?
  • 11 0
 Ews guys ride their seats slammed.
  • 13 3
 More drop is ALWAYS better, because you can ALWAYS adjust it. You don't ALWAYS have to run it all the way down, but you ALWAYS have the freedom to do so. And since some people would ALWAYS want more drop, it's better to ALWAYS have more drop. If you don't want to use all your drop, then don't?
  • 3 0
 Most of those bikes have about 200mm of clearance between the rear wheel and seat. remind me how much travel a DH bike has?

The ones that don't are mainly taller riders.
  • 1 0
 Because they know how to ride Smile ))

But, if you look where the seat on dirt jump bike is... you could get better idea why low seat is great Smile
I am 191, and have longer legs. i would definitely welcome 200mm dropper post or maybe even 300mm Smile
Because i have Kona Process with extreme low standover - which i like.

If i had 300 mm dropper post i could smash the trails as a XC maniac, and then blast some dirt jumps without stopping to lower the seat. But i must admit that i like seat as low as possible when jumping...

For general trail or riding 170 is far better option for me than 150. Almost happy... give me another 30mm and i guess it will be even better. Smile
  • 1 0
 Because DH bikes aren't running droppers, they need to compromise with a seat height that is low while still being high enough for pedally sections or when they need the seat for a little extra control. With a dropper you can switch the the best possible position for any given part of trail, there will always be parts of the trail where a completely slammed seat is ideal for most of us.
  • 11 1
 It would be nice if all frame companies went forward with 34.9 seat-tubes. You can still run a smaller diameter post with a shim and it would give post makers more room to work in the larger tube diameter.
  • 8 20
flag WAKIdesigns (Sep 15, 2017 at 12:31) (Below Threshold)
 Larger diameter is causing trouble with tolerances. While you may kill a few devils you are still feeding the greater monster.
  • 14 0
 @WAKIdesigns: the 4mm larger diameter? No. Those parts are going to be cut on the exact same CNC machines using the same tools regardless if they are 30.9 or 34.9.

Lower internal pressures and bigger o-rings go a long way to improve durability & reduce assembly issues.
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns: it's a reamer waki it doesn't care if it's 27.2mm or 35mm cuts all the same.
  • 2 1
 @dcamp2 You're spending other people's money, figuratively. Every mm of clearance has a price in frame design, and you just spent a handful of them with a bigger seat tube diameter.
  • 2 5
 @rideonjon: ok, but what about coating? What about bushing fit?
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Waki your in a world you know nothing about go back to sleep.Coatings and bushings care not what size or the application.
  • 2 2
 @rideonjon: I was just asking. Then I have been mislead by an experienced journalist and an engineer at a company doing droppers among other things going up and down. I mean I know nothing. You are right. I just don't plan going to sleep now. Thank you

One thing, why are Tolerances on Rs forks slightly fkd and Fox aren't if it is so simple?
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: It all comes down to quality control and obviously RS doesn't have the QC that Fox does.That being said my Pike has been flawless for 2 years.
  • 3 0
 @rideonjon: @rideonjon: @WAKIdesigns: As someone who fabricates parts (machining) everyday. QC comes down to cost in it's entirety. It's simple, better tolerances are simply a direct inverse proportion to cost (initially). However, if a company decides on a tolerance, they buy the (pricier) tooling and over time the cost decreases significantly. The way I see it, FOX made a quality choice years back and RS made a different choice knowing they would still sell products. For RS to get where Fox is they'd have to make a quality choice meaning more up front cost. In reality only the most hardcore riders that notice these differences. RS wins in the sense that they may not be after the top level riders but the vast majority of cyclist that think every RS fork and product is the best. Companies just decide what their brand means by choosing margins over quality. It is up to us to decide where to vote with our money.

I don't buy the argument that it can't be done at all or it's too cost prohibitive. I think most of these companies are just trying to save development costs and not be the first to market in an industry that's grown tired of new standards year over year.

Lastly, screw the world cup downhill-er saddle height argument. Just because they do it doesn't mean the folks who are just trying to have some fun need to have the perfect height. The thought that people with slammed seats are perceived hacks by the likes of WAKI makes me laugh. There's no trails on a resort that I know of that compare to shuttle road trails for steepness or features. I ride purely for fun and the gnar is where I get that. WCDH racers ride against the clock, meaning their setup takes pedaling sections on flats and access roads seriously. The trails for World Cup Events are steep in spots but those riders are amazing and can sacrifice a tenth in the steeps for a second or two in the pedaling parts. Folks that rip for the fun of it may just want to slam the seat and pop every root as big and as high as they can all over the trail even if it's not the fastest line, and bless their little shredder hearts.
  • 1 1
 @mitchbike: well I haven't said that it can't be done, I meant that with certain tooling and quality control increasing the diameter increases the issue with bad tolerance. And seeing plenty of forks prematurely worn out stanchions makes me think it's not only about performance.

Just because I make you laugh, doesn't mean you don't make me laugh. Yeah I don't ride for fun, I don't pop from roots and rocks. I just follow what pros use I try to apply it while i burn my rotors. I'm a troll, how could it be that I could actually ride and know what I'm talking about with position over the bike. I ride Steeps LOL
  • 2 3
 Nevermind mate, I learned over the years that it is me who is strange and confused. Guys like you need Eagle because they climb sht that is so steep, and then they need 200 droppers because they descend stuff that is so steep. You guys just don't race World Cups volountarily, because it's not fun enough.

The only thing you miss is the that idea I have that if me, terrible, troll and wanker can do it you should be able to do it easy peasy.

About machining, I'm happy I gave you the opportunity to show me the greatness of your expertise. I can't wait for a golfer, a shoe maker or a taxidermist to sit me down Wink

Cheers!
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I can troll too mate Wink Maybe I learned it from you.

All I am saying is that these debates about the right and wrong way to set up your bike are all stupid. Do it the way you want. I'll do it the way I want. Us and everyone around can vote with our wallets and buy the next eagle xxxxx bla bla or choose not too.

If you're just out here to troll, then I fed you and you go on being WAKI. Come to think about it, I liked a lot of your mockumentry style drawings about the crazy ass bike industry and their stupid but incremental changes to standards and the constant marketing blitz of the next crazy MTB fad that will improve your riding without ever getting off the couch. In some ways I agree with you. As a shop mechanic in my previous life, I was probably just as frustrated and annoyed by 24" wheels with 3" tires and 10 BB standards and all the headset standards that went bigger, bigger, smaller, half and half, then it's axles, then f-in wheels (is 26" not a sacred number?), then more freaking axle widths, didn't we settle on this already? Now we're doing posts.

At some point I realized that my old 1996 full XTR XC machine is a crappy bike used as a grocery getter and my modern budget bargain Reign 2 is way more fun. Shit changes and some of the changes seem silly and purely for marketing purpose, but over they years the sum of all the changes is always a way more fun to ride bike.
  • 11 0
 The lousy reverb is spec'd on complete bikes because rock shox /sram provides also fork and drivetrain.
KS has shorter post, so does the 9 point 8 / RF / Easton and others
  • 17 7
 Extends dropper post for climb - doesnt sit down... Drops post for decent - doesn't sit down. These things are f*king useless.
  • 2 0
 Thats what I was thinking. Doesn't sit on extended dropper, and it looks like it could at least 100mm higher and still not be in the way on the descending pic. We better increase travel.
  • 2 1
 That's the secret message hidden in the picture Wink . That said, I do think the low saddle helps to control the bike with your knees. There is just no reason to raise the saddle unless you're maybe chilling on the level bits. But if you're really chilling, you could just as well sit down on a low saddle.
  • 5 0
 "One thing we have learned over time, however, is that we won't bring in a new technology until it is proven by us and up to SRAM and RockShox standards."

Is this sram saying; we know the reverb was shit, we got it sorted now, our policy about only releasing products that meet our standards has changed recently and previously we didn't give a shit? Or, our droppers meet our standards therefore our standards are pretty low (because our product doesn't work properly)? Or none of the above, we are just saying this because we think it will sell more product, we actually don't give a damn about being honest, we just want your money?
  • 2 0
 Based on my experience with Rockshox, they have pretty low standards. Unfortunately i've not had an RS product in the last three years for more than 3 months without an issue. In my building and dealing of bikes, i've been through 20+ reverbs and ONE of them didn't need service. ONE. That's embarassing. I've seen piles of Pikes come and go, some with issues, some not. Of the three that i've owned only one didn't break, and I only owned it for three months. A fourth that was owned by a riding buddy of mine just got replaced with a 36 because it blew up mid-season.

It seems that Rockshox motto is "top-notch suspension products, when they're working".
  • 16 9
 come on people stop thinking about sh/t and start riding the fu€&ing bike hard (by a bike salesman)
  • 5 1
 That's why I bought a 125mm Brand-X for 150 Euro on CRC(same post as Shimano PRO). Excelent post, cheap, reliable and with a nice lever. Not buying anything else until they make the same thing for the same price with more drop.
  • 3 0
 1 year on a 100€ Tranz-X dropper (from Bike Discount.de) and still works awesome on my Cove Hummer ti. 27.2 diameter,too.
  • 3 0
 @nozes: Two years on my brand X for £100 also
  • 1 0
 If something goes wrong isn't it only like $15 to replace the cartridge too?
  • 2 0
 Stop being that guy who posts that that kinda post..
  • 8 4
 A dropper is one of those things where I'm really, really happy that it came on the (used) bike that I bought, because I wouldn't be able to justify spending the money for it myself specifically. There would always be something else that I would need/want before it.
  • 39 9
 Huh...its pretty much the biggest game changer in trail riding in recent memory....Can't imagine NOT having a dropper on the trail/enduro bike at this point.
  • 21 2
 @MikeyMT: agreed. Id pick a dropper before rear suspenson any day of the week.
  • 16 1
 Dropper posts are for weak people. I'm faster than Gwin and I never lower my seat. Never had a problem with that. Actually, I like feeling that I'm going over the bars and broke my neck, and rubbing my nutsack in the seat feels kinda nice.
  • 10 1
 @MikeyMT: Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love having it. I'm saying that if I never had one or tried one, the $400 or so is a hard sell. Not a single one of my riding buddies has one either, and they get by just fine.

Maybe I'm just stuck having to be more selective with where my funds are spent than most of the people on this website seem to be.
  • 5 3
 @MikeyMT: That quote is hilarious... and wrong. Was on one ,broke it two times...now its back to a normal one and no complaints.
  • 2 0
 I feel the bike really comes alive with a low saddle. It is much more fun to ride, corner, jump etc. And of course when standing on the pedals you can apply much more power for climbs, sprints etc. So yeah, I see no use for a so called dropper seatpost. I don't think I ever need to raise my saddle for the riding I do. That said, people who do find they raise their saddle so often that on the fly adjustability makes sense are probably well off with a dropper. This may be the case for marathon racers etc. Most of the time I'm out for only short blasts between 60 and 90 minutes so no need to sit down. But yeah, it is a lot of money and I judging by the comment sections here, reliability is not there yet. So better think real hard whether you really really need to have that saddle up.
  • 1 0
 @j-t-g: I am with you. I have said this to countless people who have asked why I would spend so much on a dropper post.
  • 3 0
 @themountain: your experience with a bad product or a lack of proper maintenance doesnt discount @mikeymt 's own experience.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: you inspire me ,im thinking in cut the post with a grinding wheel at a low level .... at top tube level or even at BB level ,no seat ,no seat tube ,Who wont be seated ...stay at home at couch with a beer in his hand instead of a bar
  • 1 0
 @j-t-g:
BS...there are constant complaints about them and maintenance is only one issue.
In my case it was a construction fault....not much I could do about it , right?
  • 1 0
 @vinay: i guess it also comes down to where you ride and how hard you ride... i personally couldnt go back to an AM/enduro bike that doesnt have a dropper, im constantly adjusting the height, depending on the trail, so i get the most out of my ride. do i have a dropper on my dh bikes? no, but not gonna lie i have gone to hit the dropper lever on them on more than one occasion and then i remember its not there lol. dropper posts truely are a game changer, i can hit a steep roller with the seat slammed then pop it up at the bottom and put the power down seamlessly, if you dont have one, buy one now and thank me later.
-the happy owner of 2 fox transfers.
  • 1 1
 @vinay: absolutely no need here too, I love having my knees bent 90° or standing up for the 10+ minutes climbs!
  • 1 0
 @mollow: not sure if sarcastic... or just crazy. you know you're destroying the soft tissue in your knees when you pedal around with the seat slammed right??
  • 1 1
 @whitebullit: damn bro thanks for the heads up! I'll go get an MRI tomorrow to make sure my soft tissue is not damaged.
  • 1 0
 @mollow: lol i checked ur profile and saw a pic of a reverb, prolly shouldve done before commenting back. my sarcastometer is a bit off lately what with all these e-bike articles and such.
  • 1 1
 @whitebullit: haha dang you got me
  • 4 0
 @whitebullit: Oh yeah, I absolutely understand that people grinding out marathon races are well served by one of these. But for me it simply doesn't make sense. I climb, descend, corner, pump, jump all out of the saddle. What am I going to do seated? Yeah back in the day I had to ride about 30 to 45 minutes over the road to reach the trail. So yeah I had a 400mm post in a frame with a 16" seat tube. With 100mm insertion (the minimum) I could get the saddle all the way up to XC height for the ride on the road. And when I reached the trail I could slide the saddle down to wherever I wanted and leave it there until it was time to head home again. But still that wouldn't have called for a dropper type post. No need to adjust on the fly. The qr seatclamp does just fine, quick enough. Nowadays I either ride trails that are 5 to 15 minutes (by bike) from home. Or they're so far I have to take the car. There just is no more need to ride the roads that much anymore on this bike.

Now technically I can't really ride with a dropper post because they don't make one that fits my seat tube. Nowadays DMR went up to 27.2mm (DMR Bolt and new Trailstar) but my old DMR Switchback (like the old Trailstar) still takes 26.8mm seatposts.

Sure if I'd ever happen to ride a bike with a dropper I'll check and see what it does. Not sure how raising it is going to make me happy though. But I suppose many of you ride full suspension bikes that allow you to remain seated for longer so yeah, I get that there may be sections where you'd be seated and I'll still be standing. As for those concerned about knee damage, I think it is important to think of ass and saddle as separated units. There is no need to remain seated when the saddle is down. If you still stand tall when climbing it doesn't really matter where the saddle is, right? Mike in the first picture left could just as well have kept his saddle low and have been equally kind to his knees.
  • 2 1
 @vinay: TLDR, checked ur profile too there guy, in a previous comment you say you run a 32t chainring and 11-32 out back... what are you climbing with those gears and what kind of bike are you on? your profile is bare as fk and u just write novels to every1, do u even ride bro?
  • 3 0
 @whitebullit: Sure I do ride, just returned Smile . The answers to your other questions are somewhere in the TLDR stuff. Let me save you the hassle and not write it again. Writing more is never going to make it shorter Wink . As for the profile stuff, sorry I'm not going to bother with that. Never knew people actually do. I just thought it was for targeted advertisements. I prefer my nonsense random.
  • 4 0
 It all comes down to the rider and the bike. As usual.

I've got stupidly long legs for my height, and wasn't comfortable with a 150/155 dropper post. Switched to a 185, just the right size for ME. A friend on the same bike went for a 155mm dropper post, and that suits him just fine (anything bigger would be a waste, as he wouldn't touch the pedals when fully extended)
  • 9 4
 I'm 5.10' and ride a medium 2015 Giant Trance with 125mm dropper. Being in the Okanagan, I have access to all kinds of trails. Never needed more than 125mm! So I disagree that more is better...
  • 3 0
 5'9 and also on a M '14 Trance. Changed the 125mm Reverb for a 150mm Giant dropper after the Reverb started sagging,and couldn't be happier. I just use the full 150mm on very steep stuff,but it's nice to have it.
  • 1 0
 @nozes: also changed my Reverb for the Giant Contact. Not for height, because I was sick of the Reverb failing. 1 year on the Contact now and zero issues. (Touch wood)
  • 2 0
 @jaymac10 just because it works for you doesnt mean it will work for everyone though, it all comes down to seattube length. im 5ft 11" on a L chilcotin and a 125 post is perfect for me, but if i went with a medium chilcotin i would need at least a 150mm dropper or more due to the dramatically shorter seattube length, and at 5'11" i could of gone either way.
  • 5 0
 @jaymac10 I ride all the gnarliest DH trails in the area on my hardtail so that means nobody should have a downhill bike.

That's a ridiculous statement right?
because it's basically what you are saying.
  • 1 0
 at 5'8" my 125mm Fox Transfer barely fits my medium 2017 Trance. When i first installed it the lever feel was crap because the cable was bent into an awful angle against the pivot. As it was, the collar sits nearly flish with the seat tube. After cutting the cable ferrule in half, I was able to coax the cable into a smoother angle and restored lever feel. At this point it works perfect and after testing, I've determined anything more than 125mm for someone my height is ludicrous and impractical. I use the bike seat to maneuver the bike.. I can't imagine having more travel. I suppose for you giant 6 footers and above out there, it makes sense. Unless I experience a 6 inch growth spurt (unlikely at 30..), I'll stick to the 125mm..
  • 5 1
 I don't get it, I have a 100mm, 125mm and 150mm post on different bikes and I honestly can't tell the difference from one to the next. I have never thought I need more drop on the 100mm and never thought the 150mm goes too low. As long as its somewhat out of the way I'm good. I couldn't live without a dropper but the drop seems irrelevant. The 125mm is on a trail bike and the 100mm and 150mm ones are on XC bikes.
  • 1 0
 Same here, 5" on the aggro bike, 3" on the xc bike, and I never notice either of them when they're down. What's the big deal?
  • 1 0
 Totally agree, got a 125 & 150 dropper on 2 different bikes and as long as it goes up and down when I need it to life is good. I just don't care enough to get OCD over these micro adjustments.
  • 4 0
 No! Bike industry listen up! No integrated dropper posts! You think changing wheel or headset standards is bad? Just think about your 4 year old perfectly good bike with a malfunctioning seatpost that is out of date and you can't get anything from anyone to replace it because it was propitiatory to the frame manufacturer! No! It's not necessary!
  • 4 0
 One thing we have learned over time, however, is that we won't bring in a new technology until it is proven by us and up to SRAM and RockShox standards.

Seriously? How many broken Reverbs were there ?
Having used them.from day 1, I felt like a beta tester , the last 2 have lasted ages. So that's 4/5 years of development
  • 7 0
 That 9.8/Chromag love story makes me happy.
  • 8 1
 9point8 seatposts are a superior product and Philshep is dreamy. Slabs of Dundas
  • 9 3
 Im a reverb owner, you cant tell because i dont have a dropper on my bike currently . What a POS rockshox dropper is.
  • 4 1
 does nobody understand that droppers should be viewed as terrain dependent, not rider height dependent? do you ride where it's extremely steep? then you'll want more drop, regardless of how tall you are. less steep? you don't need 150mm of drop.
  • 2 0
 No it's just you that understands this. Everybody else is labouring under the assumption that seat height is terrain dependant but overall range of movement will depend on your inseam measurement/riding style.
  • 7 0
 Duncan sounds so freakn corporate jeez
  • 1 0
 that's how SRAM operate. Here's another example

www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/11/tech-speak-brake-fluid-break-down-and-implications-for-road-disc-updated

Check the SRAM responses in that article.
  • 3 0
 Why would you run a dopper post with more drop than you need? More drop height = more leverage on that poor f*cking stanchion as you slam it up and down - adding a stack more wear and tear through the bushing etc. You want a sloppy dropper... this is how you get one.

I thought the idea was to have it at pedalling height at it it's maximum extension but still drop low enough for any nasty steep stuff. There is such thing as too low, even in difficult terrain. The taller crowd obviously need the 150mm-ish options but this 200mm+ is a joke.



Talk about a non-dilemma!
  • 6 0
 Bike Yoke Revive. That is all.
  • 3 1
 I really don't understand the appeal of ball-smashing dropper posts. I had a KS Crux on a previous bike and it was super cheap and awesome, but it was often knocked because it had a "slow return". I see people complaining about slow return all the time. One of the things I liked best about the Crux was that I could "catch" it between my thighs on the way up at any height I wanted. I now have a Specialized Command post and if I tried to do that I'd lose all chance of ever having children.
  • 1 0
 funny story, i was riding shuttles with a guy that was telling me about the shop he goes to getting their first command post, they pumped it up to 30 psi and were having great fun having their friends try it out and smacking themselves in the nuts.
  • 2 0
 vinay said: "Most of the time I'm out for only short blasts between 60 and 90 minutes so no need to sit down."

Good hell you have some endurance. I once rode for 10 miles without a seat/seat post and it was exhausting to say the least.
  • 2 1
 Is it really that different from running then? I can run for the same amount of time and don't feel the need to sit down either Wink .
  • 2 0
 I wish dropper post with easy self maintenance would become more mainstream. My LBS has an "e13" dropper that is super easy to maintain as opposed to Foxs' dropper where you have to send it back to have work done if it needs it. I think the frame integrated dropper would be cool if it meant self maintenance would be easier
  • 2 0
 just installed my E13 dropper last night. It even came with sets of keys to replace when/if needed.
So looking forward to being able to service it myself over sending it in.
so far on my short test ride I like the feel and the remote. I am coming off a command post so I get along fine with the set drop positions.
  • 3 0
 my XL 2017 enduro came with a 125mm dropper. wayyyyy too short for a tall guy. But I don't want to drop $500 + for a new seat post that goes down slightly more...Just spent all my money on the damn bike lol
  • 1 3
 I run a 125mm on my xxl trek Fuel ex and I'm 100% satisfied with the drop.
  • 1 0
 @Alain2: another person with a XXL! I must be kinda normal after all!
  • 2 0
 It would be cool to know how much of the dropper post is still exposed AFTER full drop, as there is some extension still exposed in some brands (ie fox has 20 mm at full drop). In other words, what brand post offers the lowest position of the saddle in the fully dropped mode ???
  • 2 0
 Wow, learn so much about bike set up in the PB comment sections. Their are some of you out there that should hold some kind of training to teach others how to set up their bike like yours, everyone would be so much faster. I mean look at some of the top XC riders don't even run droppers, imagine how fast they would be if they had your set up. And DH would be next level. I don't even want to think about all mtn or enduro or what ever you kids call riding your bike these days
  • 3 2
 This is a common complaint, but I honestly have no idea why. Is it because people are trying to ride too big of a frame? What gives? I've owned many bikes in the past 2 years. All Large frames... And I'm 5'11. I could have probably cleared a a 170mm dropper on every bike I've owned. My yeti sb5, sb5. 5, sb4. 5, transition Scout, Ibis Ripley, Giant Trance... I don't have long legs. I just ride the bike that's suggested for my height and wouldn't you know it, I have zilch issues.
  • 2 0
 At 5'9", I have a size large BMC trailfox. The 150mm reverb that came with it is too long by about a cm; I have to hunt for a good height at the top every time I raise the post. The reverbs have tall collars, and I hope that swapping it for a different brand with a shorter collar will allow me to keep a 150mm drop. Lucky for me, the reverb is starting to do the pogo-stick thing, so it helps makes the top-out height more usable!!
  • 1 0
 Or I could just do what this guy did

www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Qb97HHj1Q
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: I have large speedfox and a 31.5 cm inseam. I got the Bikeyoke 125 since it had one of the shortest collars and I still don't have it slammed.
  • 1 0
 @mvmorten: I have a 150mm, and I'm trying to keep that much travel!
  • 1 0
 @mvmorten: 31.5 cm inseam? that's some badazz boundary pushing on a L frame Smile
  • 6 1
 I got 99 problems, but a dropper ain`t one!
  • 4 0
 It'd be nice to hear all about that new Specialized post... more tilting please.
  • 1 2
 it's still cheaper than a vasectomy and just as effective. what else do you need to know?
  • 3 0
 @sk133872: Take a peak at every DJ/DH/BMX bike saddle angle and get back to me.
  • 4 0
 What dropper post dillema? RC trying to out-crush Levy in the comments wars?
  • 3 0
 had to scroll down pretty far to find this comment, what dilemna is right!
  • 2 0
 I' ve tested the eightpins post. Its on another level. Its dropper post 2.0. The ease of actuation (easily with one finger), refinement, and sheer travel. I wish it could be an option in every bike.
  • 2 0
 I'd just love a dropper that doesn't fail once a season and require me to drag my ass to the bike shop and warranty the thing. If they could solve that, then we can talk extra length
  • 6 0
 Gravity Dropper.
  • 4 3
 When RC speaks, my ears shut. On the intergrated dropper post bullshit....When has 'intergrated' ever worked in this industry? Oh great I bought a specialized and my only dropper post is option is a command post???? f*ck off RC
  • 2 1
 usual dribble from RC
  • 2 1
 Did it at some point in interweb reality become really really awesomely cool to slam people with a different viewpoint just bc you anonymously can?
Agree, integrated has plenty of cons to go with pros...
but heck, might as well digitally tell everyone with diff opinion to "f off" if you even possibly have the opportunity right?
  • 1 0
 Frames should allow droppers in this order at a minimum for the shortest rider they are designed for. Use inseam instead of height for recommended sizing. The user can pick which reach he or she prefers between the brands and or stem length. Most modern bike are within 20mm of each other in reach and top tube length, that can be made up with stem length for the most part without affecting handle negatively. Small - 125mm Medium - 150mm Large - 175mm XL- 200mm If your legs are too short for those allowed drops then size down your dropper. Every brand has an Idea of height they are designing their bikes for wether they publish it or not.
  • 2 1
 Mm. I'd rather run 125 on my xl. 150 maximum.
  • 1 0
 What about the Vecnum Moveloc, though? 200 mm, mechanically actuated, lightest dropper on the market per travel.
It`s easily disassembled and self serviced if ever needed. Spare parts (dirt seals, lock pin) are reasonably priced and same top notch quality as the dropper. The V2 is actually available for delivery and doesn`t keep you waiting.

I own a cheap Cube 125 dropper on my Banshee Phantom and have tested 8point on the Liteville 301 MK14 in Garda 601/Skull/Coast. More travel can be more fun, not better, it may lead to sloppy technique (same with suspension).

Should I replace my current dropper only it would be Moveloc Vecnum. Should I replace my complete bike it would be LV 301 + 8point, if I ever win the lottery ;-)
  • 1 0
 This article completely misses the point. Or maybe it doesn't, in the fact that it focuses on the topic of "incremental gains" that would be the product of integrated droppers. Nobody is asking for or needs a dropper integrated into their frame. In fact, most of us enjoy shopping for the right dropper post.

The biggest technological leap in dropper technology is a post that has an auto drop option without the need to be pressed down. That and increased reliability, which has been the biggest problem since day one. By focusing on anything else, its a smoke and mirrors show.
  • 1 0
 I gave up and just bought a X-fusion Hilo Slate 125mm for £50. It is a little slow and probably needs an oil change, but it works great. The few occasions when I (mis)use the Mondraker Foxy RR as a downhill bike, I can just lower it slightly with an allen key.
  • 1 0
 honestly the DOSS post with 3 position was extremely practical. The middle position "Trail" just made so much sense. I wish the transfer post did the same thing however with an adjustable central position you can always go back and reference to.
  • 1 0
 My thoughts are that bent seat tubes are here to fit more riders onto a given frame, since a slacker seat tube will lengthen the cockpit more with increased seat height. A straight, steep seat tube will clear the rear wheel just as well or better than a bent seat tube.
  • 1 0
 Why does this have to be so difficult? Why can't bike manufacturers realize that dropper posts are here to stay and design the seat tube length appropriately? There's no reason every bike (except a small or extra small frame) shouldn't be able to run (at minimum) 150mm dropper!!!
  • 1 0
 I am about 5'11" (with relative short-ish 33" legs) and the only complain about having gone from 150mm to 170mm post is that now I find myself clipping my bum with the rear wheel now and then when it is slammed. That is also because of changing bikes from 27.5 to 29" wheels.

So, although it worked like charm to be able to get that drop at my height(it makes a real difference these extra 20mm), now I am aware of I can actually hit my bum in a critical situation. Probably not a bad thing atall. I am just trying to get the muscle-memory for the gesture of getting back on the bike a bit less than before when in sizable drops, or when on the rear wheel on the steep. You don't want an OTB on one of these!

Any advice welcome! that said, having grown up riding bikes(mtb, bmx,...) I am loving my do it all 29" enduro bike, specially on the steep trails that you can find in Scotland(where I live). I couldn't have dreamt of all the options and technology available in the market nowadays.

Hope you are all well (due to the pandemic situation) and dreaming like me on the day you on your bikes at the fullest again!
  • 1 0
 I'm missing one important point: tire buzz
It's simply not possible to have super short seat tubes with long stroke droppers. There is even an EU norm about the must have clearance.
  • 2 0
 Bike companies have to design suspension kinematics around the range of frame sizes they will be producing. Therefore if they have eliminated tyre buzz on a size small frame with the seat slammed, as they should, it is a non issue. I run a 400mm seat tube on a 160 travel bike and don't experience any tire buzz.
  • 1 0
 More mechanical actuation Easier to design user adjustability Cheap Nowt to go wrong User serviceable if it ever it does I'm just waiting for a cheaper version of E13's coil sprung dropper
  • 1 1
 just buy a bike frame big enough for you...im 6ft and have a 17.5" frame and 150mm drop on my fox transfer is overkill I wish I got 120 or 100. look how tiny the transition bike is in the top pics.....its suuuper small no wonder he needs a super long dropper. Fox transfer is ace by the way.
  • 4 1
 Can we start seeing more 200mm droppers for us with long legs haha
  • 1 0
 9 point 8
  • 1 0
 @y9pema: 4 the win!
  • 5 3
 Lol, dropper people are funny as fuck. Making things so much more complicated that needed!
  • 3 1
 *Than.
  • 3 0
 I adjust my stroke all the time, only takes a coupme minutes....
  • 4 1
 Did I just read an infomercial?
  • 3 0
 Doug Bradbury predicted the integrated dropper years ago.
  • 2 0
 I'm lucky and grateful enough to afford a used dropper. Whatever the travel.
  • 2 0
 I often find maximum insertion and too small of diameter an issue too. My post post just never seems to fit.
  • 4 0
 Who has this dilemma??
  • 2 2
 Sitting down is lazy, use a fixed post, set it halfway or so the graphics look right, push a hard gear, stand up and hammer, bmx style. That's how I ride, it's done my fine for 30 odd years and most people can't keep up.
  • 2 0
 Who would have guessed, people are complaining because dropper posts have to much drop...
This is oxymoron(s)
  • 2 1
 The biggest challenge to droppers if finding one you like that's easy to setup and doesn't require an advanced engineering degree to keep working for more than 2 rides.
  • 1 0
 That's easy - don't buy a $100 post and expect it to perform like a $400 one.
  • 2 1
 @miff:

Its been my experience that the $100 droppers are far more reliable than the $400 ones.
  • 2 0
 @deeeight: you didnt pay 400$ for a dropper did ya???
  • 1 0
 @deeeight: lol sure thing bro
  • 1 1
 The winner in this game will be the manufacturer that builds a dropper that moves down as well as up on its own, i.e. without the riders weight applied, to predefined (and adjustable) positions.
  • 1 0
 Making a dropper post mandatory on your new frame is a secret pricehike and adds planned obsolesence to your frame . Thats what this is for. A marketing ploy.
  • 3 0
 If you can't get your saddle low enough, your bikes too big... LOL
  • 1 0
 Humans went to the Moon in the 60s but today we have no reliable telescopic seat post. What a disaster as they are all junk in terms of longevity
  • 1 0
 no mention of the new specialized one? I like the idea, but the added weight/complexity might not be worth it
  • 2 0
 Bikes should be sold based on ape index and inseam not height.
  • 1 0
 I disagre. I feel that every manufacturer should NOT change the seatpost length across each size so that short people can ride the biggest bike they can or the smallest bike they want. If this were the case, if the stock dropped post on a frame was too short/tall for someone they could easily buy a different post. I'm 5 9 and I want to ride large or extra large bikes but my legs are too short to have the stock dropper fit my legs.
  • 2 2
 The perfect dropper post isn't made yet, need one that tilts as the height is adjusted, dips the nose of the saddle down when it goes up n raises the nose up as it goes down
  • 5 0
 Apart from the one specialized made.
  • 2 0
 What is a dropper post? -- (lives in Indiana)
  • 1 0
 Just keep an external actuated version available please Mr Dropper Manufacturer Sir.
  • 1 0
 Posts should be inverted with a bump stop. Hey presto everyone gets maximum extension!
  • 1 0
 completely had no idea this was even a legit problem... lol. I dunno guess im just content on where my seat is
  • 1 0
 Who wants a dropper post with a setback head? Seat tube angles are getting steeper and steeper for a reason.
  • 1 0
 The makers should be focusing on making a Dropper Seatpost that "Drops" without sitting on it first like the name implies.
  • 1 0
 Don't get why these things are so expensive, is it not just office chair technology?
  • 1 0
 Im more interested in finding out what bike shop is selling reverbs at half price !
  • 3 6
 Past bike had a reliable dropper. New bike has no dropper. I dont miss the dropper one fucking bit. Nothing against them, just didnt really find myself using it. Were I ride, its short, techical climbs and short fast steep decents mixed with flowy trails. Basicly really technical. From my experiance the dropper was just too much of a pain in the dick to mess with , when your transitioning from going up and down so many times on the trail. ...and than there is the accidental thumb activation.....
  • 1 0
 You don't get accidental index finger activation, do you!?
  • 1 0
 So much yes on publishing the max insertion length on frames!
  • 1 0
 Longest article on the Internet
  • 1 0
 Pick a dropper stroke length and be a d!ck about it.
  • 1 0
 The best dropper post is a downhill bike
  • 2 0
 this is a bad post
  • 2 2
 Increase the outdated seattube diameter.
  • 1 0
 boring
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