Tire Makers Co-Develop an Inflatable Bladder System to Prevent Flat Tires

Oct 11, 2018 at 14:46
by Richard Cunningham  
Armor hybrid tire liner
Tannus/Vittoria photo


It's called the "Armour," and it integrates the now-popular protective tire insert with an inner tube to, as the press kit says: "...give the rider better flat protection and the ability to ride at lower PSIs without ever getting a pinch flat."

For a while, I thought those were the very reasons that we abandoned inner-tubes in favor of tubeless tires, but that's just me. In a few weeks, a consortium of two tire makers - Tannus, which specializes in manufacturing airless cycling tires, and Vittoria, a high-end pneumatic tire producer - will be releasing a hybrid, inflatable liner that could spell the end of tubeless mountain bike tires - or not.

The Tannus Armour insert is 15 millimeters thick beneath the tread and tapers down to 2 millimeters as it completely surrounds the basic inner-tube. Armour's maker claims that the hybrid solution is easier to install than the most popular tire inserts and more effective in preventing punctures. In their words:

The Armour design allows riders to lower their PSI to as low as 20 psi, whilst at the same time ensuring ultimate protection to their rims. In the unlikely event you get flat tyre, you can also run flat on the Armour without any problems under 10km/h; which could be a real lifesaver. The most noticeable thing about the Armour is its simplicity. Anyone who has installed or ridden tubeless will testify that it is a pain to install and maintain, whilst only being about 60-70% effective against punctures. In contrast, the Armour installation is as easy to set up as a standard tyre / tube combo and requires no special tools or added maintenance.


History Being Made - or Revisited?

The Armour concept flips the wisdom of conventional tire-liner makers up-side down. Inserts like Flat Tire Defender and Cush Core are intended to sit against the rim of a tubeless tire, while leaving an air space above to allow the tire carcass some natural flexibility with which to find grip and roll more effortlessly. Conventional inserts create a "bump-stop" for the tire that helps activate the suspension sooner and protect against carcass-tear pinch flats. Puncture resistance is handled by liquid sealant.


bigquotesArmour hybrid inserts could be a legitimate innovation - or they could be a satanic reincarnation of the the old-school "thorn-proof" inner-tube.
Puncture Resistant Tube
Thorn-proof tubes have yet to live up to their name. Katie Bradshaw photo

Armour inserts, however, are compressed against the tire's carcass by the inner tube, which forces the foam element to conform to the terrain at all times. Puncture protection is only as good as the thickness of the insert. Air pressure inside the inner-tube only plays a supporting role to the liner, which should create a noticeably different (albeit harsher) ride quality. The Armour concept is more civilized version of MrWolf's SmartMousse, which takes it to the extreme, with a tiny tube inside a blob of foam that fills the entire tire.

All things considered, the simple addition of an inner-tube to a tubeless tire adds a measurable amount of stiffness to the tire casing - and that lateral support, along with puncture resistance, is high on the wish list for many enduro-type riders. Armour hybrid inserts could be a legitimate performance innovation - or they could turn out to be a satanic reincarnation of the the old-school "thorn-proof" inner-tube. Speculation aside, we will be testing a set soon.



Mentions: @vittoria


261 Comments

  • 700 30
 I have zero issues with regular tubeless. I'm just here to get downvoted.
  • 99 1
 Same. I use a good amount of psi for where I'm riding that day. Ie. I'm not gunna run 15psi at the Whistler bike park
  • 108 421
flag tulipanek (Oct 15, 2018 at 12:35) (Below Threshold)
 I have zero issues with regular TUBES. I'm just here to get downvoted.
  • 228 28
 @tulipanek: Don't mind me, just here to down vote people praising tubes
  • 41 2
 Me neither with my ghetto tubeless setup.
  • 69 165
flag Boardlife69 (Oct 15, 2018 at 12:57) (Below Threshold)
 I have squirm issues with tubless in corners. Even with 30 psi in my 2.35 minions. And that god awful milky snot bugger mess everywhere. Fck tubless. And fck your downvotes too. Opinions.
  • 163 5
 I also have zero issues with tubeless. Until I send it into a rock garden, and slice my tyre. Then I have zero psi with tubeless.
  • 16 2
 @AllMountin: This all day...so Huck Norris in the back.
  • 14 5
 @SnowshoeRider4Life: tubes work well if you don't use low pressure and if you don't roll over branches with thorns. Tubeless works well for almost every situations except for pros riding fast who destroy rims.
@Boardlife69 You might need wider rims or change casing ? I'm terrible a cornering so my tires don't "squirm".

One real issue with tubeless is (if you use light casing) you need to change tyre as soon the sidewalls are a bit used because sealant starts to leak from everywhere.
  • 8 1
 @AllMountin: Same here. I went 4 years without a flat until I had two recently on the same trail. Both were a result of running too low a pressure on a rocky downhill. Speed and low pressure will kill any traditional tube or tubless setup. I now have an acute awareness of the problem Huck Norris inserts solve.
  • 18 0
 I agree. I don't get the 60-70% statistic. I live in the land of thorns and cactus and only one flat in 4 years....and that was because I didn't keep up with my sealant.
  • 24 32
flag Boardlife69 (Oct 15, 2018 at 13:35) (Below Threshold)
 @zede: I only use DH 2ply meats on 28mm ID. (2.35 front and back with 30-32 psi) Not a pro (some will say I have pro style) I just like to put my back into it. Add a little twerk and she starts to squirm. But I do ride quite aggresive and the back wheel is my most abused part requiring constant attention/replacement. I just dont get this low pressure with balloon tire trend. I would toast that shit in no time flat.
  • 2 14
flag Adamrideshisbike (Oct 15, 2018 at 13:37) (Below Threshold)
 ---
  • 18 3
 @SnowshoeRider4Life: It's OK, I'm not mad on this, just want to be clear here, there are still a lot of people that shred hard with TUBES include me(but I do not shred hard), so there isn't anything wrong with them, even few PROs still use them too :-)
  • 7 2
 Its an inside out cush core. Why all the hate?
  • 48 3
 Also seems like the whole thing is engineered upside down. For reduced rolling resistance dont you want the air directly pushing against the tire carcass so it flexes with terrain and conforms for traction? Then for big hits have the foam closer to the rim to reduce the impact force from the rock/edge strike on the rim? Placing the foam directly against the tire carcass will just increase rolling resistance and reduce traction.... no? Or should I have kept that to myself and patented?
  • 8 1
 @eswebster: yeah, sounds like a recipe for a seriously slow rolling tyre.
  • 2 0
 @eswebster: I think so, that's probably the reason SmartMousse is only marketed for Ebikes. Too much rolling restistance for regular bikes I suppose.
I once did a test with a tubular tire covered within a light foam, however the foam pushed against the contact surface of the tire, i.e. I was constantly rolling on the foam insert. The rolling resistance pretty much sucked.
  • 9 4
 @Boardlife69: agreed. I wince at the sight of a 2.5 exo on the back of a bike.
  • 47 0
 I think Inflatable bladder system is just code for inner tube Wink
  • 2 3
 Really? Ive added countless dents to rims
  • 2 0
 Agreed. I weigh 210# and run 20/22 psi f/r on 2.5 and 2.4 dhf/dhr with no problems. Of course I’m not raging and dropping, just trail riding.
  • 8 3
 I run 49 psi. So no problemo ! Bro !
  • 6 0
 I switched to tubeless almost 3 years ago. Gonna jinx myself, but I haven't had a flat in 3 years tubeless. I run EXO Maxxis and 27psi rear, 25 psi or so front. Prior to the switch, 5 or more flats a season. I think tubeless works as is. Never needed extra traction, ie., 24 or less psi, that required squirming tires. Tired it for 5 rides or so, didn't like it.
  • 3 11
flag vinay (Oct 15, 2018 at 21:34) (Below Threshold)
 I have zero issues with tubes (as part of the Schwalbe/Syntace procore system). Could I have some downvotes too?

As for pressures, I run 6bar in the tubes, 1.1bar in the rear tire, 0.9bar in the front tire.
  • 7 4
 @SnowshoeRider4Life: don’t mind me I don’t downvote that’s some teenage Facebook crap. I just comment on all the problems you tubeless fans have with your supposedly perfect system.
  • 2 1
 @tulipanek: I use OKO Extreme sealant and it works. And it works really great. If you use one set of tires you can go tubeless but if start to change your tires frequently it's getting annoying and messy. Tubes with OKO are extremely, and I do mean extremely resistatnt to thorns and even nails up to 3,5mm and the sealnt lives very long. Once every long time I check my tubes for holes and only then I can see how much work OKO has done without me NOT even knowing that I had a puncture.

www.endurorider.pl/oko-x-treme

So don't vote people with tubes and just ride what you prefer.
  • 5 10
flag WAKIdesigns (Oct 15, 2018 at 22:45) (Below Threshold)
 That’s some prop system dick swinging right there... I
  • 3 0
 I still get flats with tubeless periodically - the sharp rock in the tread and a pinch flat at the rim kind of puncture. It doesn't happen often enough to warrant adding extra weight an hassle to the wheel and tyre system for me. If you ride slowly with fat tyres at a very low pressure then yes, but if you want your bike to handle a variety of terrain and speeds, then you have to compromise and run higher pressures. I found the sweet spot at a race this weekend. Butcher 2.6 at 25/28 psi.
  • 1 0
 @Foes2001: you riding a skatepark lad?
  • 1 0
 @eswebster: True the vast majority are snake bite type tube punctures. What you need is something of a rim strip that goes up just a bit beyond the rim inside the tire, for the tube to compress against - to lessen the pinch.
  • 1 0
 @neimbc: it's called ghetto or split tube tubeless.
  • 2 0
 @tulipanek: phew, you nailed that one bro!
  • 2 0
 People still use rotary dial telephones and put stamps on letters to mail them also.
  • 2 1
 @thenotoriousmic: not really. I run on tubes ( N-1) 49 psi
26 imch ( gasp) !! on park for a reason.
Obviously it for the rolling resistance. I aint following sheeps !
  • 2 3
 @loganflores: I don't know much about Facebook, but to me this whole voting thing is a true Pinkbike phenomenon. There is nowhere else I go on the internet where I come across anything like it.

To be honest it's been only a couple of months ago that I started running ProCore. Until then I ran latex tubes without any issues. Yeah they puncture. Takes me a few minutes to swap it out and another few minutes to patch a batch of punctured tubes.

The main reason for me to use ProCore is that it allows me to easily install a tire with a mini pump, just like I could with a regular tube in a tire. If I can't install a tire with a mini pump (when on a trip or trailside when a tire has come off for whatever reason) it seems pretty unacceptable to me. And I won't carry one of these pressurized bottles either. Seems scary to me.

Biggest gripe with ProCore is that as it is now I need to use the Presta valve. They feel fiddly compared to Schraeder. I may change mine at some point. Inflate the tube through one Schraeder valve, inflate the tire through the other one. I just haven't figured how to keep the air guide in place with this approach.
  • 6 2
 So ya'll go tubeless, and then complain of problems that arise from that. Now we've got brand new cutting edge tech that uncannily resembles tubes and inserts. Strangely enough, tubes are super easy to work with, and if you get a flat... pump it back up, patch it, or just swap for a fresh tube. Simple. Run a half-reasonable PSI and you won't have a problem, use inserts and no worries about thorns. Bring on the downvotes.
  • 1 0
 Holy sh1t that's a lot of downvotes! Reverse psychology perhaps?
  • 2 1
 @mtbikeaddict: Nah, some run tubes, some don't. And everyone sees positives in negatives in whatever they're running. Once the negatives start to outweigh the positives, it may be interesting to look for something else. I personally wouldn't run tubeless (except for my car tires). Then again I wouldn't get a dropper seatpost anytime soon either whereas others consider it pretty much essential. At the end of the day, most of us can just get hold of whatever we need for our riding so that's all good.
  • 1 0
 @Boardlife69: just run them at 100PSI. I have no squirm issues when at that pressure
  • 1 0
 @vinay: I’m just being a dic$ I didn’t think about it that way though your kinda right pinkbike has been my main social media for so long I forget how unique it really is. By the way I hate presta too I used to have some cover/converters that thread onto the stem making it shrader valve that covered the whole stem body down to the rim lost them on a stolen bike I’ll see if I can find out who made them handy as hell.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: "most of us can just get hold of whatever we need for our riding" I aspire to be at that point someday, must be nice. Lol first world problems. Life's still great, and you did say "most". But yeah good point... different opinions for everyone
  • 1 0
 @mtbikeaddict: while I agree with most of your comments above (I run tubes and high pressure) and I find it crazy that people will go such great lengths to lower their tire pressure without considering any consequences as per efficiency. I think vinay meant that we all have both options available.
  • 1 0
 @loganflores: Yeah, options, not opinions. Oh well. Smile That said, I'm sticking with my choice. Only thing I ever do is check/adjust the air pressure... can't remember the last time I flatted. I'm with you there... I don't understand the über-low psi thing, and then problems with flatting and rolling resistance... but I guess other people may find other options work better for them.
  • 1 0
 @mtbikeaddict: Yea I remember growing up people complained about the tube setups sometimes rightfully so sometimes not I (knock on wood) haven’t had too much bad luck with tubes or traction guess it’s a ride style and setup. But I hear just as much complaining from people about all this new different bs such as I need more than a pump to fix my bike. Or I destroyed a rim per season running 24psi and now I’m adding a bunch of weight with some inserts. I’ve tried tubeless in different forms it works very well especially if you run a decent pressure but it has its own host of different variables.
  • 1 0
 @loganflores: There we go... well said. Each does well, but with different variables. I'm happy with tubes and inserts... makes for quick repairs, and I don't really want to try something new at the moment (plus the small fact that nothing I have would be compatible, so the switch would be expensive... lol) , but someone could say the same about tubeless. Maybe I'll try it someday...
  • 3 0
 Tubeless is great until you have 1 multi-purpose bike where you switch tyres every couple of weeks.
  • 1 0
 @mtbikeaddict: Ghetto tubeless works on any tyre / rim combo so you don't have to change anything.
  • 1 0
 @Mattin: It's not that big of a deal. I use Orange Seal and leave the "lining", except for the loose stuff, in the tire. Use the old sealant and transfer it to the other tire and add 1-2 fresh ounces to the mounted tire. I've switched tires back and forth 3 times this season, damp/mud, to dry/hard pack and back to damp/mud, only used 8 additional ounces.
  • 1 0
 @fartymarty: wide rims like the Rabbit Hole can be tricky to seat tubeless, so I started mounting a 1" wide, 1/2" thick strip of packing foam in the center of rim over the rim strip creating 2 channels instead of 1, similar to the stans Hugo rim. I also love "gangsta" tubeless setup where you fold the flap back onto the rim giving you 2 layers of rubber protection from bead cuts. Kind of a PITA to set up, but worth it!
  • 1 0
 @Chonky13: I would love to try and set rabbit holes up tubeless. Almost bought a pair for my Krampus. The fold sounds like a good idea tho but never pinched a split tube despite lots of dents and Exos altho not overly rocky here.
  • 1 0
 @fartymarty: Hello, I have zero issues with regular tubeless too. But I had to change rims and to buy tubeless ready tires. Could you please share your configuration of ghetto tubeless just for me to know what example of setup can work? ThanksSmile
  • 3 1
 I have been running procore in the rear this year and wouldn't ride without it again. No matter how messy job it is to install it and that valve gets stuffed with sealant after some time. Ride quality gets improved a lot. You can lower the pressure by 2-3psi with no risk to burp and when you roll through a rockgarden the tyre bottoms on the insert a lot, making you feel like you have some awesome suspension upgrade for smoothening out square edged hits. There is a feeling of luxurious kind of support in the wheel and it boosts your confidence. there is a difference when you ride fast on rough and feel like your rims gets it every now and then, and when you know it doesn't. Then you can run slightly thinner casing further increasing the compliance of the system. And all of it is felt only when you push hard, especially on rough corners. Not some parking lot talk about snowflake issues like stiction. I cannot recommend it enough. Other inserts, wouldn't be so sure if they are that good. Would have to try them. to sum up. Procore is the best alternative to MoreAir tm
  • 1 0
 @fartymarty: not entirely true. It works with most tyres and rims. I had non folding wire tires that just won't seal.
  • 1 0
 @ivankvkharkiv: as follows:

Rim,

Insulation tape (or rim tape if not using draught excluded- see below). Makes it easier to get draught excluded off when changing tyres.

Foam draught excluder onto insulation tape
www.screwfix.com/p/stormguard-extra-thick-weatherstrip-black-3-5m-2-pack/40425?tc=OB2&ds_kid=92700022063965889&gclsrc=aw.ds&ds_rl=1241687&ds_rl=1245250&ds_rl=1244072&gclid=CjwKCAjw3qDeBRBkEiwAsqeO7qyUPCQaq-4hYsbhdTmdSIoCqlv5qkEFAIxAatx5MK5zmZMp1TrZsxoC6OsQAvD_BwE
on rims with big drop centres. It pushes the split tube out and gives better contact with the tyre. I had some rims where I couldn't get air into them so started using this to force the best towards the edge of the rim and seal it better.

Split tube (24" on 29er and 20" on 26" with Schrader valves (so you can remove cores and get lots of air in (this may mean drilling your runs but I've done it on lots of aluminium rims with no issues,

Tyre.

Use a Stans syringe to get sealant in once you have the tyre on.

I have only ever used a track pump and have used this method on many rims and tyre combos.

Let us know how you get on.
  • 1 0
 @EnduroriderPL: see below. I've done a few folding tyres and loose fitting tyres and it's worked. It's all about getting a good contact between the split tube and tyre to allow you to pump it up and get the tyre onto the shoulder of the rim.
  • 2 0
 @EnduroriderPL: I've been using latex tubes until I built my current bike this spring. I tried the ProCore system with my old tires (26x2.4 Racing Ralph rear, 26x2.4 Nobby Nic front) as still shown in my pictures (see profile). But the system requires the tires to hold air and they simply wouldn't. It wasn't near the bead where they were leaking, it was just the sidewalls and maybe even the running surface. The Stans sealant might seal some but new holes kept popping up. Maybe the ammonia in the sealant kept degrading the tire, I don't know. This is probably what makes "tubeless ready" tires good for this purpose. I'm now running 26x2.4 Conti Trailstar in the front and 26x2.35 Nobby Nic (they don't do them in 2.4 anymore) in the rear. Both tubeless ready, works fine. But I also got some bottles of Oko (high fibre and regular) a couple of weeks ago. I'm going to try those in the next few weeks. And I might try these on my old tires too sometime, as these aren't ammonia based so they may actually survive.

@WAKIdesigns : ProCore has been working fine for me so far. Even though I've never set up a tire tubeless, I actually expect this to be easier. I just watched Steffi Marth perform it in their instruction video and I followed along, with mini pump. Inflating got a bit heavy though, over time. It may be some sealant in the valve. I looked on the internet and I came across the suggestion to flush it with hot water, so that's what I'm going to do next time I'm taking the tire off. I'm tempted to work with two valves though. One for the tire, the other for the tube. Ideally I'd go back to Schraeder valves for both, never really got along with Presta. But I haven't figured out how to keep the air guide in place. My rim manufacturer Syntace (who co-developed the ProCore system) recommends to cut the valve out of the ProCore tube and use that as the tire valve (so that it also keeps the airguide in place) and use another thin tube with Schraeder valve as the actual tube. So yeah, I might actually try that. My W35 rims already have the second drill at 90 degrees. If you're using different rims you may want to drill your own. If you're using a different number of spokes (other than 32) you'd obviously have to drill under a different angle suitable for a valve (and somewhere between the valve and the weld/rivet/sleeve).
  • 1 0
 @fartymarty: I had NON folding WIRE tires that just won't seal. Besides that all my ghetto tubeless have worked very good.
  • 1 0
 @EnduroriderPL: try the foam draught excluder. The other one I have heard about is putting duct tape on the shoulder.of the rim to make the tyre tighter.
  • 1 0
 @fartymarty: Thank you. But I didn't really understand what do we need split tube for? Could you please explain this to me or maybe provide me with the link with explanation? Thanks!
  • 1 0
 @fartymarty: I love that rim for 29+! Double wall on the bead, single wall in the middle. A few other tricks are to remove the valve core to get more air in quickly, and I've used a strap system to push down on the middle of tread, which expands the tire bead outwards. Sometimes it seats up right away, not always though..
I'm also really loving the Terravail Kennebec 29×2.6 tire. Beefy knobs and a strong sidewall.
  • 1 0
 @Chonky13: have seen and tried the strap but have found I don't need it. Def take the valve core out. Schrader helps as they are bigger and you can air in quickly.

Im running Blunt 35s and Flows MK3 on my Krampus. They're good for up to 2.5 but were a bit narrow when I had 29x3 Knards (since sold as the side walls were too weak). I did like Dirt Wizards but they were well heavy. Will check out the Kennebec. Really want a 2.6 / 2.7 Minion DHF which I think is coming.
  • 1 0
 @ivankvkharkiv: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx_yvln1Kus

This is pretty much how I do it except I usually cut the tube and wash it first before mounting it on the tube. Also I use a Stans injector and use small scissors to cut the excess tube off once finishes.
  • 1 0
 @fartymarty: Many thanks Man!!!!
  • 1 0
 @ivankvkharkiv: No worries. I have just set up a pair of non tubeless tyres and was stuggling to keep air in the rear one. It turned out that the valve core was gummed up with sealant. I changed the valve core, cleaned out the inside of the valve stem (added a little more Stans) and it worked.
  • 1 0
 @tulipanek: there goes your down vote, buen hombre.
  • 176 0
 Yo dawg, we heard you liked tubes so we got a tube for your tube that goes inside your tire for your tire.
  • 48 6
 And we going fill that shit with gold flake air so when you get puncture it will look like fairy farts following you.
  • 16 0
 Tubeception
  • 7 0
 Please, I don't even use tires anymore....dawg... Saved weight, easier to put in my geo
  • 3 0
 I'm more interested in someone developing a wheel to put in my wheel. My problem isn't flatting tires.
  • 1 0
 Evan Breen: "That's my tube!"
  • 2 0
 Lets create a new standard out of this!!!
  • 2 0
 It's like TITS technology from transition
ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb13005783/p4pb13005783.jpg
  • 125 3
 It looks like the tyre industry is going round in circles...
  • 47 2
 It’s hard to say if this will inflate sales for these companies..
  • 48 3
 But will this new product gain traction?
  • 18 3
 @macross87: This innovation may well corner the flat-proof tire market, or come skidding to a halt if there are no early adopters.
  • 14 2
 Only thing your wallet is going to be holding after purchasing these is air.
  • 26 7
 Insert pun here
  • 33 1
 Tired of the same puns.
  • 9 0
 Nice pun but that was exactly my question. How is an “inflatable bladder” not a tube?
  • 6 2
 @dbendixen: I'll answer that but first I need to drain my tube.
  • 11 0
 they don’t stan’s a chance
  • 2 0
 Over-inflated market hype, I wheely wish they'd sort it out once and for all, I'm just tyred of it, its stubeid
  • 106 0
 personally, i cant wait till reflectors make their high performance debut
  • 33 0
 Oh, you mean diffuse illumination dispersement and rotational mass balancing devices? I have some in Carbon fibre, they'll totally make your bike go 7 seconds faster on every trail! Only $2399 USD a piece.
  • 7 0
 @LoganKM1982: What!? No built-in air speed velocity sensors or wireless activation? No smart phone or Starva integration either? What kind of roadie.. er I mean sucker do you take me for?
  • 6 0
 @hangdogr: Hahaha, right now it's just for ebikes, and the sensors don't have the firmware ready to fully deploy them. However, it does have smart capabilities, for instance, it alerts you to any article about new standards on pinkbike and the volume and pitch of the alert let's you know exactly how upset to be when commenting.
  • 5 0
 @hangdogr: TPMS Sensor for bike tires LOLOL
  • 5 0
 Injected foam is the new carbon.

Also, who DOESN'T use a reflector to balance the valve stem weight?
  • 3 0
 @cyrways: Already exists, Quarq Tyrewiz.
  • 71 0
 Dear Tire Companies: Please put this extra weight in the tire casing.



Thanks!
  • 44 4
 “Anyone who has installed or ridden tubeless will testify that it is a pain to install and maintain, whilst only being about 60-70% effective against punctures“

I find tubless easy to install, maintain and almost completely effective against punctures. I got one flat the whole season this year, and that was from a piece of glass on the trail slashing my tyre...
  • 6 0
 That only time when I get a flat withtubless is whe. A f^*#ing rock pierce the side of my sidewall. Who are these people?
  • 5 0
 The obvious answer is too low tyre pressure but I have a hunch that a lot of people are running their suspension much too soft causing most of the suspension travel to be "used up" during mild g-outs or landings. Then they're pretty much riding a hardtail with 27psi in the back tyre.
  • 7 8
 @Jhou: haha, I'm lucky to get a week without flatting tubeless. Either burping it in corners or off rocks (yes, even with over 30psi) or just cutting the tyres. I actually don't understand how it works for anyone over 70kg/150lbs ever, at least without tyre inserts or procore or whatever. Tubes suck, they just suck less than tubeless for me.
  • 8 2
 @Socket: run thicker casing tyres then. I can get away with 23-25psi at 83kg, not riding slow, if I run DD tyres. EXO casings were giving me flats every single ride.
  • 8 1
 @riish: I've run 22psi front/rear since getting my bike in January. New to tubeless and apparently I'm doing it wrong. Because at 185lbs, I didn't manage to cut my sidewall in Bend on the nice rocks there, or pinch flat on jumps, or anything. Moving into the wet back home (PNW), I dropped the front to 20 the other day. Still no flat.

What can I do to make it so I need to buy these inserts and add a bunch of rotational weight to my bike?
  • 14 1
 @Poulsbojohnny: Riding at a slightly above average speed or ability should do it.
  • 2 0
 Just for the record I don't get flats either. Normally running EXO Maxxis at 26 & 29 psi with a body weight of 200lb. Any lower and casing-squirm that makes me feel sick in corners.
  • 4 3
 @riish: I never run EXO casings, they're a joke. DD or SuperGravity at a minimum, these issues still persist. Sometimes even DH casings, but they completely suck to climb with then, and they still burp anyway. DD or SG with tubes = no burping, occasional flat (still far more than I'd like - with DH tyres & DH tubes I used to go through more rims than tubes somehow) but with tubes I never pull the bike out for a ride and find the tyre has lost half its air, whereas I did consistently find that with tubeless no matter what the tyre - once you burp it once, dirt gets in the bead it never seals properly again. Then when you inevitably do flat it, it's a huge mess to deal with on the trail.

Either this doesn't happen to anyone else cos I'm an outlier due to being just so big and strong and fast (seems unlikely - I'm big but not huge, not very strong, not exactly WC fast either) or it does happen to lots of other people and they're basically in denial about how annoying it really is, I'm not sure which is the case. Tubeless still ranks lower than a triple chainring on the list of things I want on my bike right now, and believe me, I really am no fan of tubes either. It's just the marginally less bad option.
  • 2 0
 @Socket:
What rims and sealant are you running to have so many problems?
  • 2 2
 @Poulsbojohnny: ha dude you don't smack roots and rock's then.
I prepare my rear tires with 35 or more psi for my 187 lbs with full gear.
Because I have enough grip if I going fast and I don't Buckle or Bend my rims if I just land on a massive root or stone after a jump on real singletrails or just going fast over anything.

Yesterday I just hit a big boulder because I was to close to the rider Infront of me with 35kph and the rear wheel now got the first dent. This rim was superb for One year and 7000miles. I can replace it but because it is only a minor debt and the wheel is still true I don't spend 100$ for it. I am cheaper with the replaced rim then this tire insert nonsense and I had also no flat. I need to pedal the shit up, f*ck the extra weight...
  • 1 1
 @Socket: Dude where do you ride? I will make sure to avoid that area, seems like you ride on glass and razer blades.

Or you can run more pressure, you know most tires can handle 60 psi and yes some guys run that with success
  • 2 1
 @markg1150: He's not going to tell you nor mention that he weighs 400lbs and literally can't lift his butt off the saddle.
  • 1 1
 @markg1150: only ever used Stans sealant. Rims, tried with many over the years, from Mavic DH rims back in the day (729s, 823s, 721s), WTB rims (which are easily outlasted by any tube, tyre, or condom) Ibis carbon super wide things, DT EX471s and M1700s plus a few others I can't recall right now. Same result every time - they just burp too easily in corners or when pinging off rocks. It's usually not from cutting the tyre (although that has happened a couple of times, definitely on the EXO tyres I tried), it's just that they burp at any reasonable pressure (ie under 35psi) and once they do that, they constantly have a slow leak that requires pumping up every ride. With that said, haven't tried any tyre inserts since I gave up on tubeless before they became a thing. Maybe it's worth the weight penalty, but they're even heavier than just running tubes, and since you can't really just offset that by running lighter casing tyres since the Exo ones just get slashed anyway, I've never really been tempted to. I'd love tubeless to be what it's claimed to be because like I said, tubes suck, but it's just never worked for me.

@JohanG 200lbs and raced DH for about 10 years. Certainly not the best or fittest rider in the world but also far from the worst.

@BornOnTwo Squamish/Whistler/Pemberton mostly. 60psi sounds fantastic, might even be able to turn my enduro bike into something with the grip of a hardtail at that point. In reality anything much above 30psi becomes really quite harsh, at 40psi grip is severely compromised. Honestly, think about what you're saying.
  • 1 0
 @Socket:
I'm about 92kg/200lb+ and can't go lower than 35psi on a rear on any surface with grip and rocks on it. Well not if I want the rim and tire to survive and it not to roll in the corners. Just physics and the fact they design tires around racers that are about 20kg lighter I think.
Not using wire bead tires are you? I tried one once and it was burp city totaly useless. Had no grief with folding bead. And I find hookless rims less burpy than hooked.
Wanna avoid Easton arc then, got some last year and getting ready to chuck them, having strange burp problems with them when I shouldn't.
  • 1 0
 @markg1150: "Wanna avoid Easton arc then, got some last year and getting ready to chuck them" Well then, I'm getting ready to catch them. Smile
  • 2 0
 @markg1150: wire bead for DH tyres but folding bead for everything else. Never really considered that as a point of difference but fair enough. I find I need at least 35psi to prevent burping, but about 30-31 is enough to prevent noticeable rolling in corners most of the time. The hookless super wide Ibis 741s did the best job out of everything at preventing burps, but even they let go now and then on hard square offs. EX471s I got maybe 2 weeks before it was constantly leaking, everything else basically failed due to burping within the first couple of rides, and I'm pretty anal about tyre pressures especially on new/tubeless setups. Maybe it's just right on the limit of failure for most riders most of the time, and I happen to be just the wrong side of that limit too often. But then there's all the crap with having to clean the rim out each time you change tyres, the needlessly brittle rim tape that breaks or leaks or pushes into the spoke holes or comes unstuck, the mess, the clogged valves, etc etc. Net negative for me.
  • 2 1
 @Socket: Hey trying to help, your problem is you get flats, I gave you a solution that will also have downsides like less grip and a harsher ride. You can not have it both ways bud.

I kept ripping out derailleurs, changed the way I ride and where I ride and I don't rip off derailleurs anymore - I never blamed the derailleurs. Honestly your problem is probably attitude.
  • 1 0
 @BornOnTwo: yep, flat tyres are a result of attitude. That's a great attitude in itself. I spent literally the past 15 years trying out various alternatives (tubeless, tubes, wide rims, narrow rims, heavier tyres, lighter tyres) and the end result was that tubeless never worked very well for me no matter what casing I ran, and that tubes, in spite of their many faults, were better overall. Meanwhile you're "trying to help" by making ridiculous suggestions like running 60psi and saying I'm the one with a bad attitude? Ok then. You seem to have forgotten that the original selling point of tubeless was "You can run lower pressure and not get flats" - which is just patently untrue, especially if you can actually corner. It's basically this simple: given that I prioritise descending over climbing for the most part, why would I bother with tubeless if I had to run higher pressure not to get flats than I have to with tubes?
  • 1 0
 @Socket: I run both tubeless and tubed. Yup I run tubes and higher pressure on my DH bike 35psi max, rolls faster too, not that many issues with grip on the descents or obviously no burps but you need softer tire material (I still shredded a front tire on some sharp rocks, had nothing to do with the tube). My "climbing" bike I run tubeless way lower pressure 20 front and 28 rear max. I have multiple bikes so I really don't need one to do everything (or tire to do everything). It works for me and I have only destroyed two tires in two years....maybe bring I small pump with you and add some psi on the descents? Anyway you seem skilled/experienced enough, do your thing....
  • 27 3
 and I ask how much it weighs and then get down voted.
  • 18 1
 Yeah @pinkbike @vittoria how much DOES it weigh?
  • 3 1
 Reasonable questions and positivity don't always go as far as they should around here. Followed immediately by my accidentally clicking the downvote button when trying to click the upvote. Damn. I do however support your comment.
  • 2 1
 How much does it cost, more importantly.
  • 6 0
 I usually figure if it was lighter than tubeless and other options they would be throwing that in your face. No mention of comparable weight means it's heavier.
  • 2 0
 @slovenian6474: Ya mon! I expect weight so we can compare the 100 grams of Orange sealant plus it's cost so I could make a decision. Maybe I have to use sealant with this core? meh...... its like a day old to me.
  • 2 0
 @madmon: Cost and weight info needed, stat. I am intrigued though.
  • 1 0
 @yakimonti: im interested for my thorn issues in Jamaica and replacing minions cause of taking on 20 plus thorns is making me use up sealant and it costs are dear and not available in the Caribbean. I take down 6 or more small jugs and it lasts me 4 months maybe. Interested more in the isolation when a tech issue comes up......intrigued as well.
  • 24 2
 Is this system with a regular tire lighter than just a dh casing tire? I don't get why you just don't go to dh tires if you are still having pinch flat problems...
  • 1 1
 Would def be lighter option
  • 3 0
 i concur with this very thought. i guess maybe though its heavier, the idea is a lighter casing will still contour to the ground and any objects being rolled over better than a dh casing maybe?
  • 1 0
 Cause they add 10 lbs to your bike....
  • 10 0
 @Xc2dh1: looks like this adds 11 pounds. DH tires for the win.
  • 2 0
 @SnowshoeRider4Life: The lighter casing weight savings will more than be offset by the heavier tube and foam pictured here, plus the foam will likely generate more rolling resistance than even a DH casing.
  • 19 0
 Does anyone else find this article hard to read? Like the paragraphs are made up of unrelated sentences?
  • 13 0
 The foam pushes against the side wall like a tube does. But not with the same force.
Foam core plus a tire is a huge chunk of change. If the whole enchilada cost about 100$ it would make a great flat proof rear tire.
Do you still need sealant?
Final weight compared to tubeless tire with sealant and foam core?
That tube in the tire. If it punctures what then.?
Stay tuned for more inquisitive remarks and cunning puns.
  • 15 0
 Dh casing + freeride tube that weighs a ton= lots and lots of bike park laps with no flats for a reasonable price
  • 15 1
 this "bladder" system looks awful similar to this things I used to run called.....tubes
  • 3 0
 Yep it does and I can’t see how they won’t puncture.
  • 13 0
 Is it April 1st already!!!!!!!!! hahahaha I'm trying to loose weight, so my bike adds it. I will get my coat
  • 5 0
 Every second product on Pinkbike is April 1st material.
  • 10 0
 Have we forgotten about the foam inserts INSIDE the sidewalls of the irc Kujo DH already? Maybe tire manufacturers should revisit that old design and work on it.
  • 5 0
 And red sidewalls while they're at it.
  • 1 0
 Did they work?
  • 14 0
 @sp00n82: They sure did work! They made my red Mountain Cycle Shockwave look amazing!
  • 3 0
 @sp00n82: But seriously, I think they were one of the few tyres I owned that wore out before being sliced. I also don't remember getting any pinch flats on old school pure natural tracks with rocks and roots and not a berm in sight.
  • 1 0
 @iamamodel: and that was almost 20 years ago. The tech and materials available now would be amazing I bet.
  • 2 0
 @iamamodel: Well I was thinking of something like this, and already wondered why no tire manufacturer included some sort of foam directly into their tires. Turns out they already did so ages ago. o.o
  • 2 0
 I had some of those too, and Specialized also had a DH foam insert that went inside of any tire under the tread and upper sidewall, with a tube run to the interior of it. I had both of them back in the day, and probably still have one or two examples floating around in the back corner of the garage. The problem with foam inside of the tire casing is that the continuous pressure from the air chamber causes the foam to take a permanent set over time, so you end up with just a piece of hard plastic instead of pliable foam. My understanding is that the recommendation for the motocross bib mousse versions of this type of tube/foam setup are to let the air out of the tire as soon as you are done riding, so that the foam doesn't sit in a compressed state for any longer than needed. The IRC casings had the foam integrated into the sidewall but I'm not sure if the part of the casing that bore the brunt of the casing tension was interior or exterior to the foam, which would make a difference in how much air pressure would compromise it over time.
  • 2 0
 @thekaiser: But like I said, that was 20 years ago. There's new formulas for foam and new methods of construction that weren't around back then. All Im saying is that they should be exploring this method or variations of it rather than just filling the air channel with foam inserts.
  • 2 0
 Someone just gave me an old Kujo dh, the tire is honestly still in great shape after a seemingly tough life. The crazy thing is that it's a 26 x 2.7 and the rear was a 24 x 2.6. Old dh bikes were beastly,
  • 8 0
 these days so many, at least here in norway, only talk about Bicycle Components and how to change em out for a better ride. got armpump? New shock and fork! got punctures? heavier tyres! struggle to get grip? stickier compound! but noone talk about how to actually ride a bike. if u puncture all the time you really have to look at the way you ride and learn some technique / smoothness / way of thinking lines.
  • 1 0
 There are no smooth lines in Bergen Frown
  • 8 0
 No real sidewall support, foam looks thin where you need it not to be, extra weight swinging out in the tread not against the rim.... I think Cushcore still has this locked down...
  • 1 1
 And the tire looks separate so it will be heavy and overly stiff and still able to slice a sidewall! And Flat tire defender for the win Smile
  • 1 0
 @MX298: Not saying that FTD isn't better than this, but it also uses a separate tire and is vulnerable to sidewall slices. If anything, I would think that the foam on this would provide a little buffer so that even if you do slice a sidewall, the air chamber may not be compromised. FTD probably has other advantages to this though, like the compliance you mention.
  • 1 0
 @thekaiser: Tire sidewall flex dictates alot on how a bike handles and the problem I see with this is the foam is part of the sidewall flex so if the foam vulcanized to the sidewall, no flex and if it is not the tire can still be cut! I am all for tech improvements and it does not give any info so maybe it’s great. . . . I do know that most national level racers run DH casings and inserts (FTD) at DH and Enduro’s with great feel and virtually not flats. And FTD has the damping durometer thing down too.
  • 5 0
 I am very interested in this. I frequently change tires based on course conditions for racing. I want to be able to change my tires quickly (i.e., the parking lot at a race venue) and without all the mess of sealants.
  • 1 0
 I've got a brand new top secret patent pending wonder technology I'd love you to try... call now and I'll double your order, plus free s&h. They're called... Tubes. Wink
  • 3 0
 On average I flat once per season on a tubeless setup, and that's usually when I'm riding like a goon. Tubeless is easy to set up and maintain, just keep the sealant fresh and be smart with line choices and you shouldn't have a problem.
  • 2 1
 but! but! with my 170m bike I don't need technique! I can just blast through anyth--POP! sweeeshhhhh! Hm. I'll see you guys at the bottom of the run. Did anyone bring a spare tire?
  • 5 1
 "Anyone who has installed or ridden tubeless will testify that it is a pain to install and maintain, whilst only being about 60-70% effective against punctures"

That's a no from me dawg
  • 3 0
 Me too. Not difficult to do, and trouble free.
  • 1 0
 I've had one flat in like 6 years and it was from a piece of glass that sliced open my tire. Riding in Silverstar, Bromont and 2-3 times a week on my local (admittedly smooth trails) on a hardtail with softer pressures and I way 200lb. Yes, putting in a tube is easier, but I change my tires maybe twice a year, so for me the benefits of tubeless are quite clear. Like 95% clear.
  • 6 1
 hey guys, what are we gonna post for content today? i don't know, we got some old tube stuff from 1998.
  • 4 0
 But the tube is too small for the new tire standards!?! No problem, we will fill the gap with foam!
  • 6 0
 Steady heading back to solid tyres me thinks...
  • 7 0
 Pool Noodle V2
  • 7 1
 Show me the rolling resistance numbers or gtfo.
  • 13 0
 So you can compare it against the reliable, published, peer-reviewed "rolling resistance numbers" for other tire systems? Oh, wait...
  • 1 1
 @DirtCrab: www.bicyclerollingresistance.com

Not peer reviewed in the sense of journal articles, but certainly peer reviewed in the court of public opinion, and seemingly pretty reliable.
  • 1 0
 @DirtCrab: This system would affect purely hysteresis losses so showing it side by side with the same tire tubeless would be fine. The fact they are not releasing it tells me most of what I need to know, lol.
  • 2 0
 Jokes aside... the question would be: Is it better than existing solutions? It appears that most punctures and sidewall tears would not cause the tire to go flat. These type of flats still occur for many racers that are using cushcore or similar. It also provides rim protection like existing systems. It also eliminates messy tire sealant and all the fun that comes with it. Seems like an improvement on paper to me, however we need to know more about weight and ride quality.
  • 6 0
 Tyres and tubes have gone full circle.
  • 4 0
 What ever happened to ProCore? I never tried them but the concept seemed spot on, more tune able than a basic insert and it locked the tyre on the rim.
  • 6 0
 It's still around and works great other than sealant clumps getting stuck on the inner tire, the valve stem getting clogged, and it increasing the likelyhood that carbon rims will randomly explode from the inside out. Even with the downsides I still run it as tires dont burp anymore and it's more resistant to pinch flats. As a bonus you can ride down on the inner chamber if you slice your tire too badly for tire plugs to fix.
  • 11 0
 I've been running the Procore for a few years now and the system works really good:

Pros:
- massive gain of grip
- no more hassle to air your tubeless (the procore chamber seats your tire automatically upon inflation)
- impossible to blurp the tyre
- rim is covered against damages
- highly tunable
- adds tons of fun to your bike

Cons:
- expensive (?)
- can be a pain to setup after some use (sticky sealant)
- valve can clog from time to time (happened to me once in 4 years).
- add a little bit of weight

In my opinion, the Prococre beats any other similar system on the market hands down. I personally find the whole pool noodle/Huck Norris/whatever alternative gimmick rather expensive and laughable in comparison to Procore to be honest.
  • 2 0
 I'm still in love with Procore... @Barkit nailed the positives. For my negatives I'd go with weight and the annoying sealant clumps that build on the inner tire.

I run my tires at 24/26 PSI and love the confidence Procore gives me to smash through whatever I feel like. When I ran tubes I got a flat every other ride (once 3 in one ride) with 32 PSI. When I went tubeless I really struggled with burping every few rides. Once I rolled the front tire right off the rim pushing through a corner.
  • 1 0
 @Barkit: I ran Procore for about 3 years. I gave Cushcore a try last year, and find it to be a better system. Much more supportive in the corners, easier to air up and not have to worry about the high pressure side. But both system work well.
  • 1 0
 My main complaint with Procore is the digital feeling. I.e. the soft tubeless part, and then suddenly the hard inner tube. For foam inserts the transition is much smoother with increased damping.
I still experiment from time to time with cheap DIY foams inserts, but haven't found one yet that's offers the same amount of protection as my Procore does. Currently I have an Armaflex synthetic rubber noodle with around 55 kg/m³ in my front tire (around 190g per tire), but I don't have high hopes that it'll last long. The cost was only 2 euros for 2 meters though, so if it does break, at least I haven't thrown out 30 or 100 euros out the window.
  • 1 1
 You can flat a procore, I would bet very few if anyone runs them on the EWS circuit, even the schwalbe sponsored riders! Never seen them at a DH race.
  • 1 0
 @MX298: No clue if riders are still using it in World Cup DH, but there were quite a few using it in 2015/2016. I even remember a dramatic failure with a blue procore tube wrapped around a swing arm caught in the live feed.
  • 1 0
 someone once cut out a cushcore and ran a procore inside a cushcore, that is probably the best system but a lot of work to setup and expensive.
  • 2 0
 @Barkit:

Good comment although I do agree with @sp00n82 comment about the "digital" feel. I have to run 90+ psi in the back and around 80+ psi in the front inner chamber to prevent pinch flats with my 225 lbs riding weight and it does make the inner chamber pretty hard on anything other than crazy rock gardens. I still do pinch flat from time to time (maybe twice a year) but I use to pinch flat practically every other ride with both tubes and tubeless so I'm pretty happy.

BTW, even though I run 90+ psi in the procore inner tube/carcass, I have yet to explode the Light Bicycle carbon rim I sometimes use (although it is the "downhill" layup).

I do wish Schwalbe would release:
- Procore tubes / carcasses with different sizes. The existing size is perfect for a 2.35" Maxxis DHF or DHRII but I find it allows too much squirm / compression / rolling resistance when used with the Wide Trail tires and wider rims. I had to jump up from 28 psi in the back to 36 psi in the back to get decent rolling resistance when I went to a WT tire in the back and I've concluded that with 28 psi I was actually riding ("sagging") onto the inner procore tire carcass in the center contact patch otherwise which with a WT tire and wide rim results in too much rolling resistance due to the excessive sidewall flex.
- Procore tubes with longer valve stems so they could be used with more carbon rims than is currently the case.
  • 1 0
 @Xorrox: careful with those LB rims, I blew up a DH 38 version that weighed 500+ grams while running procore.
  • 2 0
 I like the idea of an integrated solution to reduce flats. Tubeless is good, but as bikes get more capable and trails get rowdier, tires have to get sturdier.

However, adding this kind of rolling weight (and likely rolling resistance) strikes me as the wrong way to make tires and rims more damage resistant. I'm running a Huck Norris in the rear, and that seems to help; a system more like Cushcore but designed from the rim bed up (like when the UST standard was developed, allowing for broad tubeless adoption) could be revolutionary-if the industry gets together to do it.
  • 5 0
 ???????????????? Are they actually serious? Is it April 1st already?
  • 4 1
 The CAD image of this "new" technology has me sold. I'm stoked to throw more money in the trash... since well... I'm also a believer in oval chain rings.
  • 1 0
 Oval rings are noticeably helpful for technical climbs. Worth trying if you haven't since that 80's BioPace garbage
  • 6 1
 Still running tubes...still zero problems...almost ever!
  • 1 0
 That's nice, I suppose. It's good for people who need that sort of thing. I'd be willing to bet that well over 90% of mountain bike needs are completely covered already so we keep getting more far-out things to cover the extreme cases.
  • 1 0
 I 'testify' that installing a tubeless tire is EASY-usually done with just my hands- and 'installing' sealant is easier.
I've been riding Summit's bike park since it re-opened in '13, and flatted once, and that was because the POS Butcher tires have(had) sidealls made toilet paper.
Conversely, the two times (I remember) people riding with us on tubes,they flatted multiple times. One guy flatted every fricken run til everyone ran out of spare tubes to give him.
IME, that's a LOT more effective(tubeless) than 60%
  • 4 1
 Half the comments on this post are just "I ride too hard/fast to run tubeless braaaahhhhh".

Nope, you're doing something wrong.
  • 2 0
 @Boondocker390: I think you maybe on to something.

When asked about the subject of inserts didn’t Danny Hart say something along the lines of “no, don’t think you need them if you run the right pressure”.

I would guess he dents a few rims but he’s not a rider that flats every other run. Maybe all these pinch flat types are running super stiff carbon rims? If they had cheap alloy it’s just dent a bit, no flat and carry on?
  • 1 0
 @StevieJB: DH is correct. Run the right pressure, and stop listening to BS from companies. All these pinch flats are from wannabee dicks running stupid low pressures so they can brag about their stupid low pressures. Because they have nothing else to brag about.
  • 1 0
 The only innovation I would like to see in tires/wheels is in better valves that last longer and don't cost 3x more than an innertube, that comes with a preinstalled valve. Presta valves are friggin garbage. Otherwise, I just have no need for anything in my tires other than sealant.
  • 1 0
 I'm sorry, but when there are ridiculous claims of "a pain install and maintain, only 60-70 percent effectiveness" I know we are in two different worlds. Since going tubeless, my tire setup has been way way more reliable and easy to use than it ever was with tubes.
  • 1 0
 I don't really get this product. It's like a normal tyre insert, but made wrong. Like everything about it is backwards, the foams at the top of the tyre, the air chambers in the bottom of the tyre, it looks like it was designed by someone who didn't ride mtbs. If anything it looks like a good idea for commuter/city bikes, but it'll be horrible on a mountainbike. Loads of rolling resistance, less grip, hardly any sidewall support (I wonder if the big blob of foam at the top of the tyre might even increase tyre roll) I'm surprised Vittoria got this so wrong.

Well, it looks wrong to me anyway, testing will tell, but I doubt this will perform as well as a cush core
  • 1 0
 Dont worry bud, its another piece of shit marketing scam. Like all the cores, unless youre getting paid to race they offer no real benefits apart from winning some sort of pathetic bragging rights about who has the lowest pressure. FFS, wannabee racer products have become the norm in MTB. Looks like the conversion to off road roadie mentality has finally happened.
  • 1 0
 @Bustacrimes: To be fair I'm a big fan of the cushcore design, and can see the specific advantages offered by pro-core, huck-norris etc. I just think this design is poorly thought out
  • 4 0
 This new concept make me feel a little bit deflated about innovation...
  • 4 1
 Wait dudes aren't still running thorn resistant tubes in their DH? Oh shit I'm the only one?
  • 1 0
 Seems like the foam would have to be fairly soft to offer grip levels like modern tubeless, but also stiff enough to handle pinch flat forces in just 2mm. Seems like one of those would always suffer...
  • 4 0
 Is it April 1st already???
  • 1 0
 I don't understand all this new technology...or the need. I haven't gotten a flat (knock on wood) in over 2 years on 3 different bikes with a traditional tubeless setup...and that includes 2 years of racing the NW Cup.
  • 1 0
 The top guys run FTD inserts or their rims wouldn’t last more then one run!
m.pinkbike.com/photo/16342058
  • 3 0
 I just fill my tires with great stuff foam. You want the red can, it's the best performing.
  • 3 0
 Nightmare to remove from skin/arm hair!
  • 2 0
 Time to put a small tubeless tire inside an inner tube inside a bigger tubeless compatible tire with foam and sealant. And a shit load of ducktape, Always.
  • 1 0
 So I assume these guys are gonna make dozens of different size Foam Inserts to ensure a proper fill for every combination of tire-casing size, and rim width/profile yes? Seems legit... For city-bikes.
  • 1 0
 I have some Tannus airless tires on my commuter, and the rolling resistance feels like I'm dragging a bag of sand behind me. If these are made of the same stuff I don't think I would want it on my Mtb.
  • 1 0
 Interesting concept. Good to see more options available. I for one have never had issue with tubeless and I will continue to ride without the added weight of an insert. To each their own!
  • 3 1
 more development on tubes that people dont want instead of focusing on developing a tire that doesnt get a pinch flat.
  • 6 0
 F1 cars still get flat tires. If you think there is a way to prevent flats, They are going to come up with it first, not the MTB industry. LOL
  • 3 0
 hoverbikes don't get flats.
  • 6 0
 "Where we're going, we don't need flat protection Marty..."

I'll see myself out
  • 2 0
 I enjoy the protection of my Specialized Butcher 2bliss grid tires, not a single flat or puncture in over 1000km!
  • 3 0
 so they decided to make a tube? real original
  • 1 1
 I have been wondering if it's time for tubular tires with a built in foam insert to be visited. I can see concerns with people needing to glue them on. With the concerns of rim damage it might be worth a look.
  • 1 0
 I converted to tubeless on my road bike at the beginning of spring. Still have yet to get a flat (even on gravel roads). Now to convert my mountain bikes
  • 1 0
 I think that pool noodle floaties should only be made legal to sell t cyclists if they sign an agreement to not try to turn it into/create a new "No Flats" tire liner.
  • 1 1
 No. The industry said we didn't need tubes. Now they say we need tubes again, but with foam inserts too this time LoL

Wankers.

That said: This seems like it would be very effective.
  • 2 0
 Lol glad I stuck with tubes and inserts... as with anything fashion, it goes in circles... fluorescent colors and mc hammer pants seem to be back...
  • 1 0
 Why not just run an old WTB Velociraptor tire and tube and then install a tire over that.
  • 1 0
 Did that for years in the 1990s. Works best if you cut the bead off the inner-tire.
  • 2 1
 Is hunting season, will this stop a bullet and stupid people on the trails?
  • 2 0
 This combined with pro core is bullit proof for sure... Wink
  • 2 2
 Ffs. Still rolling hassle and pretty much puncture free on latex inner tubes. Don't get the obsession with fixing a problem that lies with the tyre not what's inside it.
  • 1 0
 dont downgrade me either, but who cares...i am just here to read the comments...what's this review about?
  • 3 0
 Develop tires not tubes.
  • 1 0
 I’m very happy just running tubeless with a good sealant. Nice new gimmick tho... I’m sure someone will buy it.
  • 2 0
 If you would show it to Rip he’d ask hhhhhwhyyyy?
  • 2 0
 I'm down. I still rock tubes and carry patches...
  • 1 0
 I see room for one more insert inside that insert, so I will wait till 2020 for that one.
  • 1 0
 Waste of money gimmick from the marketing teams infesting MTB. Too many dentists buying this shit.
  • 1 0
 Still waiting for a tire insert (foam) to cost less than 40usd a set.
  • 1 0
 Problem is always the same, the weight...
  • 1 0
 "...Tannus Armour insert..."
  • 1 0
 Inner tubes......anothe crazy bike industry “innovation”. Lol.
  • 3 1
 CUSH CORE!!!!!!!
  • 1 0
 Isn’t this just a worse version of cushcore?
  • 2 0
 So, back to tubes then?
  • 1 0
 What are the weights and MSRP?
  • 1 0
 Looks like Pro-Core and Cush-Core mated.
  • 1 0
 God... bet that rim weighs a TON! (or TONNE for you EU Pinkbikers) Wink
  • 1 0
 Wheels with an "Inflatable Bladder System" to hold the air in. Crazieness
  • 1 0
 Got an idea for a name: 'The Inner Tube'
  • 1 0
 Looks like a grossly stupid marketing ploy to try to reach in my pocket
  • 1 0
 April fools came a little late this year..
  • 1 0
 I’m the boy with the thorn in his side but I got what I deserved.
  • 1 0
 It’s like re-inventing the tube!?!
  • 1 0
 I really wish cushcore didnt suck so much to install. Cuz its amazing.
  • 1 1
 People still get pinch flats these days?
  • 2 0
 Well yeah, people still ride like you use to in 1999
  • 1 0
 t'anus
  • 1 0
 Anus Armour?
  • 1 1
 Slime has been making a DH intertube for years.
  • 1 0
 I want UST back...
  • 1 0
 It's 4/1/19 already?
  • 1 0
 "Bladder system" hahaha
  • 2 5
 What about just learning how to ride the bike?
  • 3 1
 You're saying individuals like Aaron Gwin does not how to ride a bike. He has been using foam inserts with DH casings. Maybe you just don't truly understand how fast and how hard WC level DH riders ride.
  • 1 0
 @dhrracer: He´s a pro racer who needs to reach the bottom to post a time. If you are a pro racer who may need to point at results to get a contract by all means buy this shit. If youre not, then its a product for wannabee racers. Also, pros have contracts that tell them what to ride. Seriously, this is school boy stuff.
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