Kali Protectives Releases Updated Maya 3.0 Helmet

 Ive always been curious about this too.
I work at a shop that sells these and absolutely love them. (I've also hit my head in them 3 times in the last 5 years and havnt had a serious injury yet), so I'm 100% confident that these helmets are top notch.

Only thing that's always confused me is the virginia tech ratings.

 Good question. Part of the answer, I think, is that the VT testing methodology uses tightly strapped helmets and grippy bald headforms with no neck/torso, which almost certainly causes technologies like MIPS to test better than they perform in real-world use. But it's notable that Kali helmets test worse than those with comparable technologies like Leatt's and 6D's.

 Brad "the Boss" Waldron has taken his new Maya and gone for a lunch ride. He assures me he will respond to this question upon his return.

 @MarcusBrody Dude, excellent way to ask a question. Props for bringing this up in a respectful, open minded manor, which invites a response from the company, instead of insulting them. I think us Merican's and pink bikers can learn from your tact.

 @KaliProtectives: looking forward to updates.

 Hey Everyone! Brad from Kali here. One subject I never get enough of and never afraid to talk about … testing. We do a lot of our own testing and for years have tested in labs around the world to gather as much objective data as we can. We test at the labs at our factory, ACT in Southern California, Dynamic Research in Southern California, Imperial Collage of London, Rheon Labs (London), Unistra (University of Strasbourg, France). What we have learned is each lab has their own unique results or bias. Not bias in a bad way, just different testing methodology. V-tech for example uses a Nocsae head form which is used in American football. No other lab does this, does that make it wrong, no, just different testing. We found we had better results in some labs than others. Some better oblique impacts and some better linier impacts. Last year we asked two of the labs to try to duplicate V-tech results. Dynamic research and Unistra, it took some time to understand and get comparable results some of that had to do with the algorithms written at V-tech to come up with their Star system. After several rounds of testing and discussing the algorithms directly with V-tech we think we know the ‘secret’ formula. For me V-tech puts a lot of weight on rotational forces which is important, but I believe that linier forces are still just as important to control and to take that one step further we need to focus more on low g impacts. Our standards and labs (all Labs) are not testing down there enough for me, so I am testing in those lower g’s myself. Our testing will continue and will continue to consider V-tech results along with the other labs I trust. I’m not ready to change my design philosophy just to get a 5 star rating at V-tech.

 @Brad-Kali: This was very informative for me and certainly opens the eyes to different testing results. Thank you.

 @Brad-Kali:
"I’m not ready to change my design philosophy just to get a 5 star rating at V-tech."

Please don't ever!

 @Brad-Kali: Thanks a lot for the reply!

Do any other labs publish data like Virginia Tech does? I'm very much a data person and end up relying on the VTech ratings because they're the only ones that I've found.

Also, I'm more than certain you've seen it, but Vtech does publish a pretty good description of their methodology and the weighting functions that they use when doing the test. Obviously headform will make some differences, but I would think that the document would be very informative to other labs as to what Vtech is doing:
vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/bitstream/handle/10919/83760/Bicycle%20STAR%20Methodology.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

I've always enjoyed your pro-science, pro-testing approach to helmets and your willing to talk about it on here. I've tried to buy two Kali helmets so far (one didn't fit, the other - for my son - came with the retention system messed up in how it attached to the shell) which didn't work out, but I remain open to a third in large part to you openness here.

 @MarcusBrody: Hey Marcus, at this point no other lab has wanted to create a rating system, I think because the are so many variables in testing. I have seen the link and studied fairly closely. When we set out to duplicate the results it was important to get as much information as possible. V-tech uses different equipment then most other labs so that accounted for some of the difference. The University of Strasbourg just completed a study of 128 helmets and put their own 4 star rating system to it. Having our helmets tested their for some time now I do like their methodology, I have not heard how they will publish this data as of yet but I am pretty sure it will be Euro based. We sell helmets into Europe so this is important to us, besides the way Euro's test allows for much softer hemets then our testing requires. I personally believe that is a good thing!

 @butters1996: basically, they put helmets on people and shot them out of a canon and into a wall. The helmets that didn’t explode on impact were given higher ratings. You can read the study on the VA Tech website

 @Brad-Kali: Thanks! I couldn't find the Strasbourg study, but I'll keep a lookout. I did find this article on variance across testing methodologies done in Sweden that was quite interesting and spoke to your earlier point (if anyone is interested):
rdcu.be/cfwJl

There was one helmet in particular that did really well in many of their models, save their attempt to recreate the VTech methodology (though using less points than VT uses).

 @MarcusBrody: I'm not sure that UNISTRA has published the data yet. It's not my place to publish their data .... BUT .... You will be blown away at which helmet got the only five stars .... I'm not sure I'm supposed to say ... BUT .... Hovding yes the inflatable helmet that we all laugh about got 5 stars. Like I said I trust their testing, I have concerns about that helmet inflating in all situations and it inflating when you do a few foot drop, but it is probably good for commuting in a European city. It does not pass CPSC though. The Kali Avatar (full face) received 4.5 stars but sadly that helmet is too round and boring (and safe) for the current market tastes. It tests out well for us too I tell everyone that might listen that if I know my kid is going to crash that is the helmet I want them in.

 @Brad-Kali: That's really interesting. I'll keep my eyes open as - for some reason - helmet testing is pretty interesting to me.

And thanks one more time for the info and explanations!

 Best advice anywhere! FIT is king. I had an old Maraka XC that I picked up at Sea Otter the year they were introduced. LOVE IT. Tried their more rugged helmet a year or 2 later and hated the fit. Then a moto helmet from them that was also amazing. No safety feature will make a poorly fit helmet worth wearing. Which means the safety features are meaningless when the helmet sits on a shelf. I've loved the brand since that year at Sea Otter, when they were out of stock on what I wanted, with lines at the booth all day long. One of their crew promised me one the next day, and sure enough, it was set aside waiting for me when I showed up to buy it.

 Then you are going to really like the new ones that just came out over the last couple of months.

 Ktron, where are you based. I can help with Feel free to email me jon@kaliprotectives.com

 @jonnymanbikes: Australia

 @Ktron: I feel your pain, I've yet to find someone in AUS who stocks them

@KaliProtectives, can you enlighten us?

 Very hard to find in Europe. None of the big online shops carry them. UK distribution seems to be working though.

PS. What's up with the minimalist paint scheme on the composite Alpine?

 Hasank,
I can help you find one no problem. Just email me at jon@kaliprotectives.com
Let me know where you live and I’ll find a local IBD that we are shipping to.

 @jonnymanbikes: Thanks! Live very close to you guys in Morgan Hill, in Santa Clara

 @hasank2: I think Jason used his cargo e-bike to deliver some to bike therapy on his lunch break.

 @jonnymanbikes: @hasank2 I got around the corner from the office and I was not able to make it on my bike. But @Brad-Kali rescued me and I was able to complete my delivery. The shop will have them ready to sell Saturday for you.

 @coghogjay: thanks all. Got one on order now at my friends shop also here - Belmont bikes. Love my current Maya, but its has random dings here and there from years of use.

 Snap! I am just about to buy my 4th one of their helmets (i change them out every 2-3 years).

 Yes it does. It comes with an after market mounting system just like the invader/interceptor. Available for $6

 @jonnymanbikes: any chance the light mount could be revised? I find myself having to crane my neck to get the light to shine where I want it. I would happily pay a few more bucks for an adjustable mount or one that is slightly angled up a bit more.

 @Avanwin: What model are you having problems with? We use two main attachments one it a round shape that accompanies lights that go on a handle bar style mounta with a rubber O-ring... so that easy to adjust up. The other is a go-pro style mount. We have seen lots of light brands use this interface. That one has plenty of adjustability as well. You can him me up and jon@kaliprotectives.com I'd be happy to jump on a zoom/video conference and show you these mounts any time.

 @jonnymanbikes: y'all should put that somewhere in the features or description on your website. A light/gopro mount isn't the most important thing, but definitely something I consider. I love being able to cleanly mount a light without weaving velcro straps through my helmet... It's a nicety that a lot of helmets seem to skip over.

 @jonnymanbikes: I was actually referring to the third option, an attachment that holds a small flashlight. I use a Smith&Wesson LED light that is perfect for a head lamp, minus the mounting options.

 Weirdly Giro's one size fits all helmet mold fits me better than any of their sized helmets. I was also right on the edge of sizes with Kali, so maybe this would work better for me than either too. Not saying you're wrong at all as my head size is somewhat in the middle of the spectrum, but I have oddly good luck with one size fits all helmets.

 Lucky the website shows it coming in 3 sizes then.

 I think that was a mistake, the website is showing 3 sizes and I would be surprised if they only had one.

 Because like you said there is no way you can get away with just one size helmet across the board

 Sorry for the confusion, but the Maya 3.0 does indeed come in three sizes. And with the new fit system we believe this lid will fit even a wider range of helmet than the previous version. And we have partnered with RHEON for the 3.0's Low Density Layer.

 @MarcusBrody:

 @MarcusBrody: It may be relevant to split the issue into two parts: 1. Comfort and stability during normal riding; 2. Security during a crash.

I normally fit a size S/M helmet. Small occasionally works and Medium is usually slightly larger than necessary. A "universal fit" is usually around a Large or L/XL, and, like your experience, I've had some very comfortable and stable fits from universal-fit helmets. These helmets leave a gap between the helmet and my head, though, and shift considerably if I forcefully move the helmet around on my head. As such, I question whether the protection is as good as that of a more precise fit.

 @KaliProtectives: I hope you didn't improve it too much. Your helmets fit me better than any other brand.

 I guess I’d be considered an oval head. I find they fit great.