The owner of the London Bike Show, Newtimber Media, has canceled its 2021 show and has ceased business operations, becoming another casualty of COVID-19.
The company announced on the websites of the London Bike Show and its sister show, Triathlon Show: London, that although it has done everything possible to stay afloat, uncertainty about events in 2021 has forced the shutdown.
“Business recovery specialists are in the process of recouping funds from our suppliers and our clients will hear from them in due course with what will happen next,” the statement read. “A sad end to what was a successful event, wishing the industry good health and success in the future.”
The UK’s largest bike exhibition, the London Bike Show planned to celebrate its 10th anniversary in 2020 before the event was canceled. The 2021 return was scheduled for March 5-7, but was canceled when large gatherings remained unfeasible.
Newtimber Media bought the event in 2018 from Telegraph Events and ran a successful show for a single year in 2019, but never had the chance to find its feet before the pandemic hit.
Unable to count on revenue from 2021 events, exhibitors worldwide may have to find creative ways to make ends meet. We're keeping our fingers crossed this doesn’t become a trend in the industry as we feel the ongoing effects of COVID-19.
Please hear me out here. Interbike started in the ‘80s but moved to Vegas in in the late ‘90s. ...before the internet was, well, the internet, and does as the internet does — deliver information to people rapidly. In recent years it’s been somewhat of a race to get content out same-day or even within hours. My point being, we didn’t need a big in-person event to launch bike stuff. It also had a secondary effect. It cemented on a calendar when ‘next years’ products needed to be developed. Moreover, it established bikes being released based on a calendar rather than when they were the industry deemed them necessary. This in-turn devalued the previous years’ bikes even is all had changed was the colour.
There is another way, and we’re already seeing it. Whether by design or disadvantage of being a small company, Evil bikes released bikes as needed. Maybe not as fast as somy might like to keep up with geometry trends, but what this means is their resale values hold strong. And they should, for any bike. A $9,000 bike shouldn’t be worth $4,500 the minute January arrives, but we’ve seen this happen for decades now. If people had a strong idea their purchase would maintain its value, they would likely be more willing to purchase new products (good for the companies) and I honestly don’t see the secondary market being affected significantly either. There will always be plenty of people looking to save a few dollars and go pre-owned but for those of us who just can’t justify the depreciation of going new, now we might take that step.
I’m empathetic to anyone whose business doesn’t succeed, but this may be good of the industry. It might also foster the development of a different type of cycling event, perhaps built around racing (think SeaOtter).
You should be making enough dough to say what the hell sell it buy the new one.
There is just something about being able to see a bike in the flesh, up close, rather then on a website. For instance; colors will never be 100% true on screen (at least for most of us who don't own a fancy callibrated monitor)
But there is more to it. For business insiders it's an ideal place for networking, see what the competition is doing, etc... It is also the perfect opportunity for the industry to connect with their audience. Where else would you get the chance to speak directly to the powers that be, rather then going through your dealer, who's telling the account manager, who's briefing the sales manager and so on... (Often you can channel your most inner Karen directly to the higher levels of management of brand X)
It may need some tweaking, certainly in a post-Covid world, but I feel that exhibitions are here to stay.
But I'm with you on the whole season thing. Even though it might imply that some paint stripping companies in the Santa Cruz area may be going out of business.
March 2020, 2 weeks to flatten the Curve. LOL!
www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths
Here's the latest data as of jan 4. This is a complete scam. Science!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_vAQyVlXzU
It's true actually. Look at the data (focus on Science) and you'll see masks and lockdowns don't work. The Danish showed charts 2 weeks ago where masks mandates went into play, with cases soaring after that. The point is, none of this matters. The bickering is part of the plan of Globalist Elite that are pushing this nonsense. What's the nonsense? A flu that 99.98% of the people beat. Sure, some people die (and that gets the wildebeest running) and the media and Government hacks pushing fear, but again MOST live, including my family in Argentina, 85 and 80 years old respectively; she with massive diabetes and obese. Canada, as an example has just over 15,000 deaths, in a country of 35 million people. Even the U.S. with their deaths, relative to 360 million people is still peanuts. Here's the scam: the PCR test. PCR was never meant for diagnosis. It's meant for forensics. In the latter (criminal investigations) they run at 15 cycles (amplification). For covid, their are purposely testing at 35-40 cycles which is totally ridiculous, and it's why there are so many false positives. Austrian Parliament did a live test on a can of coke, and it came out positive. PCR has also tested a papaya, water and gasoline as positive. In the UK, as an example, for the past number of decades, on average, 1700 people die a month. Car accidents, smoking, whatever. Mysteriously, these deaths are all now covid. And 'flu' cases worldwide have all disappeared as covid take the claim. Also, in the U.S. they are testing dead bodies for covid. Cyclist gets hit by a car...gets covid test. Turns positive (because 50-80% false postives). Dead cyclist is now reported as a covid death. Who is doing this? Not the 1%. I care less about wall street c&nts that have millions and maybe billions and a private jet. I'm talking about serious money, real money - Rockeller type, Rothchild family, then add in the Davos crew and woke G20 leaders, and finally ...throw in the 'World Economic Forum' because it sounds so legit! They are pushing a 'Great Reset' which they no longer hide from anymore. By 'hiding in plain sight' they hope to confuse the sheeple. Great reset is covered in flawed 'virtue seeking' nonsense, and vegetarianism, but what they really want is control. Our bodies to have nanoparticle, where we are essentially a machine - Klause (google him) is the head of the World Economic forum and a big believer in Trans humanism, as is Bill Gates. Imagine you have no wallet or credit card, or even iPhone...because your body acts as all. But, what they want is a credit score system, similar to China, where they have complete control over you. Great Reset is consolidation of power for globalist elite, and socialism for us all. Fight back! Now, for you non-believers, you will soon believe: go onto Rumble (the real youtube) and search Robert F. Kennedy and David Martin interview. Moderna was a shell company run by Bill Gates and Tony Fauci. Moderna was first a failed cancer company, so they switched to vaccines. That virus was offshored from University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, and taken to Wuhan Laboratories by Gates, Fauci and Moderna execs. Obama did this in 2014 to stop bioweapons. How and why this "leaked" is your theory. But, know this, Moderna filed for a patent on the virus and received in only one year before covid hit. Yes, they filed a patent on the virus. All of this is public info on SEC filings and U.S. Patent docs. Search them yourself. Here's the interview:https://rumble.com/vb52tn-truth-about-fauci-with-robert-f.-kennedy-jr.-and-david-e.-martin.html
Here's the latest data as of jan 4. This is a complete scam. Science!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_vAQyVlXzU
Watch this interview. rumble.com/vb52tn-truth-about-fauci-with-robert-f.-kennedy-jr.-and-david-e.-martin.html
The real point, however is that this is merely one 'new' virus. You can bet there are many more Novel challenges awaiting discovery. I am a misanthrope and atheist, so I welcome the decimation of humankind. Human = Garbage.
Mountain biking is fun and I plan to live.
Question: Is Moderna Tied to Fauci, Gates, Soros, and Epstein?
Answer: A spoof omnibus conspiracy theory linked a company developing a potential COVID-19 vaccine to several prominent figures.
I agree that they’ll be other viruses that will genuinely be epidemics across all age groups in the future. The issue is their is a a growing population of people who won’t take it seriously due to the mishandling and propaganda of this one.
[ I’m throwing this out there — exhibition shows are a "relic" and the industry will do better without with.
My point being, we didn’t need a big in-person event to launch bike stuff. ]
With this thought - logic, what is the next stage, not to have real race's, and because we have the ability to watch from the palm of our hand, to put the competitors running from their garden, with virtual reality ?
I think nothing can replace the physical presence and being there in person, so you can feel the whole process - experience!
[ Moreover, it established bikes being released based on a calendar rather than when they were the industry deemed them necessary. This in-turn devalued the previous years’ bikes even is all had changed was the colour. ]
I think the best thing is that we should stop being just "consumers" and "fan boys"
in any industry,
and not to buy anything that is in "fashion" and that they "present-sell" us !
"I'm just saying some thoughts that went through my mind"!
www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/coronavirus-death-certificates-minnesota-inflated - Minnesota death rates are being inflated by 40%
news.yahoo.com/report-minnesota-lawmakers-covid-deaths-040833260.html
www.maciverinstitute.com/2020/08/its-always-a-covid-19-death-in-milwaukee-county
www.thecentersquare.com/florida/house-report-says-floridas-covid-19-death-toll-inflated-by-10/article_5af31f72-0e6b-11eb-bd2a-a38383a03f07.html
www.fox6now.com/news/questions-raised-over-accuracy-of-us-coronavirus-death-toll
www.oann.com/scientists-question-is-it-the-flu-or-covid
Enough?
Choosing to believe dipshit theories on the internet vs professional medical advice would be OK if it only endangered you, but it has potentially dangerous repercussions on those around you - therefore stupid, arrogant and selfish.
variety.com/2020/tv/news/network-ratings-2020-top-channels-fox-news-cnn-msnbc-cbs-1234866801
In denial much???
First of all, masks, social distancing, lockdowns and all are emergency to buy time and come with a sustainable solution. What we have learned is that the people who are affected by the virus aren't attacked by the virus itself but by their own upset immune system. People who this happens to are elderly and/or people with poor health, notably people suffering from so called wealth illnesses (obesity, diabetes etc). We also learned that not all health systems can efficiently deal with a pandemic. I live in the Netherlands. We used to have sufficient IC capacity but in as little as five years the government dropped that to half that and needs to fly patients to Germany.
The virus isn't the problem, the virus highlights the problem. You may be able to patch that with a vaccine, but a mere patch doesn't solve the underlying problem. It is not a sustainable solution. So buying time with emergency measures is particularly painful if this time isn't being used to address the underlying problem. Whereas so much could be so simple. Or well, if you can force people to wear masks, limit their social contacts etc then the suggestions below are simple in comparison.
- Ban tobacco.
- Heavily tax unhealthy foods rich in processed sugar and use the money to relieve vegetables from tax so that the lower incomes can actually consume healthy foods for less than it costs to buy fastfood.
- Put foods rich in processed sugar in unattractive packaging just like we currently do with tobacco (pictures of sick people on them etc).
I think these alone would hugely relieve the western medical system. Covid puts a burden on the system? Surely people living an unhealthy lifestyle put a heavier burden on it. Not just that, likely fewer people infected with covid will actually need medical care anyway. So there will be more capacity left for the elderly or other people who do actually need the care. I do realize that there are some well intended pointers given like "eat healthy" but if low quality "empty carbohydrades" (potatoes, processed sugars, wheat etc) are just cheaper than food with essential and varied vitamins, proteins and fats then people with lower incomes will always pick the cheaper emptier foods and sadly end up weak and ill eventually. So I do believe in the taxing solution mentioned above.
Again, I'm not against emergency solutions per se but if you're not using the time you bought to realize a sustainable solution (and a vaccine isn't a sustainable solution for the problem here) then the negatives outweigh any positives.
www.theguardian.com/media/2020/mar/17/fox-news-coronavirus-outbreak-trump
Even Fauci at one point said masks don't work
gbdeclaration.org
This is a declaration with 700,000 people and 13,000 public health scientists and 40,000 medical practitioners, It talks about the great damage we are doing to young people by keeping them locked down and out of school. It talks about all the mental health issues related with these lockdowns
"We know that vulnerability to death from COVID-19 is more than a thousand-fold higher in the old and infirm than the young. Indeed, for children, COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms, including influenza."
"Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity."
Even the least effective (simple cotton) masks provide a benefit.
www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak2019-ncov
"Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity." From the Great Barrington Declaration
You cite Fox News as being a credible news source (then u-turn) when they have peddled conspiracy theories about Covid, until they realised that they were helping Covid gain ground and u-turned.
The fact that all governments from all political persuasions are implementing lockdowns out of necessity - not desire speaks volumes but some choose not to listen. No-one wants them or enjoys them, and they damage each respective country's economy almost beyond comprehension, and yet they all see it as a necessary precaution to reduce needless loss of life.
Any time precautions have been relaxed (Thanksgiving, Xmas, schools re-opening, the UK government's unfortunately named "Eat Out to Help Out" campaign, gatherings of any sort) cases have spiked. In the UK, all countries have just gone to the most severe lockdown experienced so far as a result of increased cases due previously relaxed conditions.
Re the Great Barrington Declaration - www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30555-5/fulltext20
www.westernjournal.com/official-lockdowns-not-primary-strategy-control-covid
So yeah, last resort is what you use in an emergency. Like what you have early in the outbreak. We're no longer there, we're about a year in now. We can't talk of "no other options" if we haven't even tried the options I mentioned above (including my first post). And I don't think it is even speculative that these should help a good bit if you consider the number of obese and diabetic people with covid that ends up in hospital (aside from those obese and diabetic that end up in hospital even without covid). Yes it may be slightly slower than some measures they currently resort to but then gain, this has been going on for nearly a year. You can't solve a long term problem (poor western health) with short term solutions. And you gain no credibility forcing short term solutions if you're not even trying to realize the long term ones.
TL;DR: How the f*ck did you scroll all the way down this thread then?
Even though I get tested weekly (30+ times so far - virtue signal sent), I wear a mask out of respect to the more vulnerable, not to protect myself. It's a tiny sacrifice that may be very beneficial. If some people can't stand not showing their lipstick and fishlip injections, that's on them.
Y'all are some wild netbangers.
- people get seriously ill and might die
- the medical system doesn't have the capacity to care for those who need it
I think obesity and diabetes in particular can often be avoided (but takes more than just pointing fingers and giving directions, as mentioned earlier). Solving or reducing this issue would both relieve the medical system and also makes that fewer people who are infected actually become seriously ill (hence solving that would also relieve the medical system). See, that might be where perspectives differ. I don't necessarily believe that we need to ban the virus, we just need to avoid that too many people get (seriously) ill and/or overload the medical system. Sure, banning the virus may realize that too but it is just much harder to do and less effective than just make the people healthier. And healthy people will also be able to deal with the next very different pandemic whereas the current vaccine will not. You're going to need to start all over again. Do people actually realize this? That the "lockdown and passively wait for your vaccine" strategy only works for the current virus (and maybe some derivatives) whereas making people stronger is something that will most likely help us in most cases.
In this discussion I've often read that young people are less likely to get seriously ill but it isn't just youth. It is health. Youth has that, but you can train and maintain your health for longer if you just take a little care. My dad is 76 now and he recently said to me that covid affects your respiratory system but if you train your breathing then you'll be likely fine and strong enough to get through it. And I actually believe he'll be fine as I already had read this article (linked below). Is it a guarantee? No (and this may be a tough one for some), nothing in life is guaranteed. A vaccine won't give you warranties either. But there are different ways to live a life. Isolate yourself and hope for the best or just get strong, move on and live with whatever comes your way. If people are allowed to smoke, if people are allowed to mess up their health with sugar and then come begging for medical care then by all means people should be free to just live healthy with the risk of contracting a virus or break a collarbone riding bikes.
www.suunto.com/sports/News-Articles-container-page/5-steps-to-therapeutic-breathing-to-combat-covid-19
Covid has certainly shone a light on the underlying health issues here in the UK. For the first time that I remember in my 50 years, there have been infomercials on TV highlighting the need to change lifestyle - both to take the pressure off the NHS and to reduce the seriousness of Covid if caught. It will take time though.
"
And those under 20 with Covid are a great danger to their older friends, relatives, and other people they interact with.
"
Younger people are typically asymptomatic so maybe I'm drawing this slightly out of context by extending it beyond the limited age group and yet exclude the symptomatic below 20yolds. But overall I think this implies I'm extending the group. So there, have you found any reports of asymptomatic people infecting others? All I've found was this research by Nature of post-lockdown Wuhan:
www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w
I quote from the abstract:
" There were no positive tests amongst 1,174 close contacts of asymptomatic cases. "
Further down near the end of "discussion":
"
In summary, the detection rate of asymptomatic positive cases in the post-lockdown Wuhan was very low (0.303/10,000), and there was no evidence that the identified asymptomatic positive cases were infectious.
"
In between they go a bit more in dept about the asymptomatic cases but as it includes graphs etc it is best to just visit the actual article I linked to. I'm just curious now what research proves that asymptomatic cases have been infectious.
I may be optimistic saying that it shouldn't take as long. Heck, I think it will take more for social distancing to land (and I brace for the impact on kids' social development if it does). Even though I've always been active I think I've definitely changed my perception on what food is healthy and what is not. As I teen I just thought "fat is bad and complex carbohydrates are good". My view is much more nuanced now. It doesn't take generations (I'm 41 now) but it does take critical thinking. You don't need to take everything for granted but you need to be able to follow a reasoning and decide for yourself whether it makes sense or whether it is flawed. I think this is where it hurts in the covid discussion. In the public discussion any statement against the "rules and measures" is labeled "conspiracy theory" whereas I'm not confirmed my government has a hidden agenda, I just think they're stupid and ignorant. Really, it doesn't need to take a generation for change to come. If we can stop artist from performing their music, we surely can stop the sale of tobacco. If we can put labels on tobacco packaging of how ill it makes people, we can surely force big labels on product with excess processed sugars. "Sugar makes you fat, slow and weak". Pretty sure it will work. This is serious now, as the virus has now revealed how weak those people have actually become.
Peace to all, we are in this fight together. Remember, the Rona has a 99.98% survival rate (this aint' ebola). And, the PCR test is a total fraud (creating "cases"). 50-80% false positives. The inventor of PCR, shortly before his death said to never use as diagnostic. It's too strong. Forensics is what it's for - looking for a drop of blood in a hot tub. Guess what, they run forensics at only 15 cycles (amplified). Covid is being done at 35-40 cycles which is just insane - and it's why Austrian Parliament did a live test on a can of coke, and it came out positive. They've also tested papaya, gasoline and water, and all came out postiive. This is a sham. Also, dead bodies being tested or covid. Cyclist gets hit by a car, or heart attack victim gets the covid test. With false positives being so high a car crash victim gets registered as covid death. U.S. death count should probably be 100k max. It's s total scam. Science. Watch the vid brothers:
rumble.com/vb52tn-truth-about-fauci-with-robert-f.-kennedy-jr.-and-david-e.-martin.html
Also, watch the video I suggest:White Coat." If only the people on Watt Street didn't go to ivy league schools and get CFA's and MBA's, 2008 Financial crisis would have never happened. Take off the white coat, and the suit and tie, and you have people - 96% identical to chimpanzees, genes and dna. This means people lie, cheat and steal. They are human. Title means little today, with government and institutions being so corrupt. Have a look at Tedros who headed the WHO, war criminal, fact. And, he covered 3 cholera outbreaks in Africa - this is why China groomed him. Ok, we are one world, one planet, I don't wish to insult you or fence with you - we are in this together. Just watch this. Promise me you'll stick to facts, logic and reason (and science). Moderna, is just part of the scam, a shell co that only went public in 2018. Gates and Fauci financed this thing early on, and got the patent in 2019 on the virus (yes, the virus!). 2014 offshored from University of North Carolina Chapel Hill (Obama did this, credit given). It went to Wuhan Laboratories. All fact. This stuff is recorded in SEC filings, and well as U.S Patent filings (don't believe me - I encourage you to do your own research). But watch this vid: rumble.com/vb52tn-truth-about-fauci-with-robert-f.-kennedy-jr.-and-david-e.-martin.html
Peace to all, we are in this fight together. Remember, the Rona has a 99.98% survival rate (this aint' ebola). And, the PCR test is a total fraud (creating "cases"). 50-80% false positives. The inventor of PCR, shortly before his death said to never use as diagnostic. It's too strong. Forensics is what it's for - looking for a drop of blood in a hot tub. Guess what, they run forensics at only 15 cycles (amplified). Covid is being done at 35-40 cycles which is just insane - and it's why Austrian Parliament did a live test on a can of coke, and it came out positive. They've also tested papaya, gasoline and water, and all came out postiive. This is a sham. Also, dead bodies being tested or covid. Cyclist gets hit by a car, or heart attack victim gets the covid test. With false positives being so high a car crash victim gets registered as covid death. U.S. death count should probably be 100k max. It's s total scam. Science. Watch the vid brothers:
rumble.com/vb52tn-truth-about-fauci-with-robert-f.-kennedy-jr.-and-david-e.-martin.html
No Life Shaq - Dats tuff !
Ok look, this is a lot for a bicycle website so let's focus on the first part. A PCR test detects pieces of DNA or RNA (dead or alive). Is there anyone who disagrees on this? So what it has found is at least something that is not inside the body. It could be that nothing entered the body. It could be that the person has been infected, has already recovered and is clearing harmless remains of the virus, it could be that someones nasal swab has caught these remains from someone elses sneeze but as these are dead virusses, these would never infect anyway. And yeah, it could be a life virus of which some have indeed infected the person (or which is being excreted by the person, so who is indeed infectious).
a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws.
You can talk about theories and hypothesis all you want, but that ain’t science.
@Peskycoots : The conspiracy theorist term is thrown around a lot these days to the point that it is taken out of context. A conspiracy theory believes that there is a conspiracy, like that someone created the virus for a certain gain or act of war. Or that governments are letting the pandemic expand so that the pharmacies make more money selling vaccines. Whether these are true or not, these are some pretty severe claims so I wouldn't throw these around unless I were very, very sure and had proof. At this point I don't so I'm not throwing such claims around. What I do say is that things are being done wrong. Back to my initial post in this thread, compared to lockdowns, social distancing etc, there are some good and relatively cheap measures that can be taken to reduce the load on the medical system and reduce the number of ills and deaths. That is, help (yes help) people to eat the good stuff (actual vegetables) and avoid the bad (processed sugar and tobacco). Now find a doctor in "western" society to tell me that this won't have a massive effect. From what I understand here on PB, we've got loads of dentists on bikes here. We sure must have doctors too. The doctors I've talked to so far told me that easily well over half the number of people in hospitals (with and without covid) wouldn't be there if they'd live healthy. So if one issue is that the hospitals don't have the capacity to deal with a pandemic (so that people with covid can't get adequate care), why not address the bigger issue? Yes it might take a lifestyle change (tobacco, fastfood and sugarry stuff is image loaded) but it is much easier (that is, with little to no negative consequences) to realize than a lockdown and for people to maintain 1.5m in their mosh pits when they watch the live stream of their favorite metal band. I've seen more than a few people ditch smoking overnight when they started a study or a new sport. Yes you need something to fill the gap but the alternatives are readily available. Get a bike, paddle board and/or guitar and learn something new. Oh man it is tempting to regurgitate my posts above but obviously I shouldn't as it is already there. The main response I should have made to you is, if someone is a conspiracy theorist it implies that said theorist accuses others (government, instances etc) of a hidden agenda typically at the expense of others. I don't accuse. I do say the approach is inadequate, single sided, faulty and stupid. As for a hidden agenda they might have, I'm not making claims at all. So as such, I don't see how I could be labeled a conspiracy theorist.
I’m pretty sure the hypothesis that Rage is suffering from mental illness has now progressed to theory.
Now for the rest on here, so far I've found two reports on how infectious asymptomatic people. The first I already linked to earlier but I'll link again and add a second one.
- www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w
- www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0954611120301669?via%3Dihub (the link being like that as I found it through pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32513410)
Both reports haven't found asymptomatic people to be infectious so if anyone could link to a decent research article with the opposite findings then by all means post the link here. I acknowledge that some are here to win threads but with that one now awarded, we can now focus on the relevant stuff.
- referred to a WHO advice
- linked to a training article on therapeutic breathing by a freediving professional
- linked to an article in Nature on how whether asymptomatic people infected with covid can (or are known to) infect others
- linked to an article on the same subject published in Elsevier
- called for articles that dispute what I've found so far
None of these articles were written by myself and obviously as for the articles I was calling for, these aren't written by me too. Indeed I added my own thoughts and other findings in my writing but have now said what needed to be said. This medium has more than enough room for others to share their views so please don't hesitate to do so as I'll indeed back off a little whilst others take their time to formulate their findings and theories. So even though I may not be writing as much here, I'll still be watching this thread interested to read, learn and possibly reshape my current view on things.
So for all those who weren't aware already, the stage is all yours !
Important words: "SOME" and "PROBABLY".
So how did you possibly interpret that as "haven't found asymptomatic people to be infectious"???
Casstes, and Vinyl, and all those flash backs, These SHOWS, will come back stronger than anything!
1) You meet people that haven't seen for... what, Years??
2) You meet fantastic People... In person!
3) You have meaningful conversations, with bike freaks - LIKE YOU!
4) You have a weekend blast, outside of everything, eating, drinking... all this while seeing, smeeling and talking about bikes!
i could go on... but those 4, are more than enough to continue having Shows!
also, the obviousl solution is to simply let the disease do what it's going to do. let it ravage those that chose to not take care of themselves. two birds, one stone.
first and foremost, thanks for posting the references I was asking for. As I mentioned in my previous post, I backed off a little as apparently some found my presence in this thread intimidating, which might keep them from posting their own views. Unfortunately I haven’t seen any other articles being posted or referred to, so I’ll delve into yours here.
uchealth:
This doctor indeed claims that covid does spread asymptomatic. He bases his claim on a study done in Singapore but even though he claims it is about asymptomatic spread, the article is actually about presymptomatic spread. Even though you can’t tell a presymptomatic from an asymptomatic person (as you don’t show any symptoms either way) there were some culprits in this study as also mentioned in the discussion. I quote from the linked Singapore study:
“The findings in this report are subject to at least three limitations. First, although these cases were carefully investigated, the possibility exists that an unknown source might have initiated the clusters described. Given that there was not widespread community transmission of COVID-19 in Singapore during the period of evaluation and while strong surveillance systems were in place to detect cases, presymptomatic transmission was estimated to be more likely than the occurrence of unidentified sources. Further, contact tracing undertaken during this period was extensive and would likely have detected other symptomatic cases. Second, recall bias could affect the accuracy of symptom onset dates reported by cases, especially if symptoms were mild, resulting in uncertainty about the duration of the presymptomatic period. Finally, because of the nature of detection and surveillance activities that focus on testing symptomatic persons, underdetection of asymptomatic illness is expected. Recall bias and interviewer bias (i.e., the expectation that some symptoms were present, no matter how mild), could have contributed to this.”
So even though this doesn’t rule out that asymptomatic (either presymptomatic or actualy asymptomatic) spread of this particular virus can occur, it isn’t quite solid proof either that it does. What’s unique about the situation in Wuhan (hence the studies done there) is that as there was such a strict lockdown, the researches could be fairly certain who had contact with whom and there were hardly any unknown contacts. So having the Singapore study this uchealth author refers to against the Wuhan studies I referred to, I still think the Wuhan studies are more reliable. I noticed your criticism; I’ll get back to that further down.
healthline:
Unfortunately they don’t offer a tracking-free webpage hence their page couldn’t be shown where I live (the EU). I haven’t read the page, sorry.
webMD:
The lady in question was indeed asymptomatic. What I couldn’t find in the article is whether she actually infected anyone. Which is what this discussion was about, whether an asymptomatic infected person is infectious.
medpagetoday:
The statement there is more or less similar to the one from the Singapore study. I quote “the findings don't support notions that asymptomatic patients are less likely to transmit the virus, or stop transmitting it sooner than those with clear symptoms”. In other words, the article can’t be used to support what I’ve found so far. However, the findings (in “your” article) don’t support the opposite either. It just isn’t what the report was about.
On your response to the articles I linked to:
First of all, thanks for reading these. As for the one quoted from, the full quote from the conclusion is “In summary, all the 455 contacts were excluded from SARS-CoV-2 infection and we conclude that the infectivity of some asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carriers might be weak.” where the “455 contacts” mentioned were close contacts of the identified asymptomatic cases. So in other words, the identified asymptomatic cases didn’t infect any of their close contacts. The research in “nature” was larger, yet there again (and I quote from the abstract) “There were no positive tests amongst 1,174 close contacts of asymptomatic cases.” and further down “In summary, the detection rate of asymptomatic positive cases in the post-lockdown Wuhan was very low (0.303/10,000), and there was no evidence that the identified asymptomatic positive cases were infectious.” The “important words” as you mentioned are there as that’s how you draw conclusions from a statistical analysis. You can never say something with absolute certainty just because you haven’t found the opposite. In this case, they can’t say with absolute certainty that asymptomatic cases aren’t infectious just because they haven’t found a single case (in a research of 445 contacts and one with 1174 contacts) where it was. So that’s where the word “probably” came from.
Either way, by now it has become time to move on from this thread, no in the very least for those who feel I’ve already said too much here . I will no longer check this thread from now on. But I appreciate what you’ve brought forward and of course congratulate you on the medal @hlektron got you .
@conoat: No, I don’t believe this is the way to go. Yes a healthier lifestyle is going to help loads as I mentioned earlier. However, everyone knows that by now. Maybe not necessarily corona related but definitely that a healthy lifestyle keeps you from getting ill, keeps you from having to rely on medical care etc. Yet loads of people still don’t manage to get that right. Which implies that apparently they can’t and simply telling them or blaming them is not going to help. There are different forces at play.
One is simply economic. Low value and single sided nutrition (refined carbohydrates, cheap fats etc) is simply cheaper than a varied and healthy diet. So if you want to solve that, you need to remove the economic burden. Heavily tax the bad food and use that to remove tax from the proper vegetables etc.
Another one is that like so much addictive stuff, it triggers the reward system. Which has helped people in ancient times (if you’ve found a calorie-rich nutrient it could save you) so that’s how evolution eventually wired us. But it got us in trouble in recent years and leaving it up to evolution to solve that isn’t quite ethical. So you need to lower the reward you get from sugary stuff (unattractive/offensiver packaging like they now have for tobacco products etc) and help people find a rewarding replacement. Sports can get you that. But sadly the more affordable ones (ball sports etc) are often banned now as you are no longer allowed to gather in groups. The motivation is gone. So definitely if there is one thing governments are supposed to do (other than banning people doing affordable and otherwise healthy activities) is actually help these people stay healthy. Not just yell and blame. Help them with a motivation that is stronger and pulls them away from an unhealthy lifestyle. And especially as reducing the load on medical care is a national (or even global) urgency, it is well worth starting there.
Still we can all buy discounted extension leads from Amazon and get a poorly paid dude to bring us a lukewarm big mac
#allhailthenewnormal
all for a disease with a morbitity of .01% if you're under 65. wild f*cking times....
furthermore, the average lifespan in the UK is 81.16yrs. the average age of a covid death in the UK? 82 years.
they have bamboozled you. they stole literally billions of life-years(1 year of life per human) from the planet, to "save" people that on average are already dead.
Industries will eventually bounce back but personal livelihoods will be ruined forever. It's political suicide to admit you're wrong or something you propose doesn't work. Hell, you guys just got put back into covid jail....FOR THE 3RD TIME. Ya know, because the first time worked so well. California is indefinitely in jail.
I feel most bad for the 30m kids in the us that get their only meal from public schools, and the same children that will literally lose MILLIONS of years of life due to non in person learning. LINK: thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/499394-the-covid-19-shutdown-will-cost-americans-millions-of-years-of-life. Our over reach and relinquishing of civil liberties here in the states will be looked upon extremely poorly in the very near future all while the clowns that championed it stay silent and say they never wanted it. I'm keeping the god damn receipts.
Here: www.statnews.com/2020/12/23/put-straw-man-pandemic-denial-out-of-its-misery
Also, weird to see the ratios now coming in. 5 months ago when I was against lockdowns I'd get downvoted 20 to 1.
1) restaurants/pubs and clubs, etc. - although many if not most (depending on where they are) will die off, there will be a new breed with new funding ready to jump in and fill the market as soon as there are strong indications that business can “return to normal”. Let’s just hope these are replaced with locally owned establishments and not Amazon pubs (you get the point). I would say you can apply this logic to most industries affected by COVID.
2) although the event and exhibition industry has taken debatably the biggest blow, keep in mind that many of the companies that run these events are very scalable in the sense that most of their core staff are seasonal, and a bulk of Human Resources that bring them to life are employed for less than 2 weeks or so. Also, most of these companies rent all of their event assets, contractors, service providers, etc. as well as the physical space they operate in.
All that said, it will be interesting to see what the appetite for these hard hit industries will be when we “return to normal”. I agree exhibitions are dying in general and this may be the straw that breaks the camels back - heck I’m sure many expos were scaling down anyhow and this is just a clear message to move on, but I have no doubt that events like festivals and races will come back simply because the appetite for them will survive.
My $.02
My patience for conspiracy theorist idiots is done. Those that are spewing public misinformation have blood on their hands.
In the US? This is the number one source of death in your country. More than heart disease, car accidents. And there is still a large percentage of unaccounted annual deaths this year.
It's none of your f*cking business how thin his cousin was. My cousin was thin as a rail. To all of that are tuning into alternative facts media, keep your bullshit to yourself.
I'm out.
Why might you ask are governments continuing to get it wrong with lockdowns, quarantines, testing etc, propaganda? It’s because doing a u-turn, being honest, admitting that the modelling was wrong, that lockdowns don’t work, and that they have ignored the evidence would be a very clear admission of guilt on behalf of the non-covid excess deaths, the decimation of economies and the massive infringements on our civil liberties. Let alone the sacrifice that has been forced upon our children, their well being, and their educations.
I can’t believe my first comment on here is about a f&ckin coronavirus and not fun stuff like bikes.
#2 read a news report from literally any reputable news source. Please.
Also, someone wishing for me to die from covid and then pissing on my grave is not the same as a bad word.
Well said mate.
"These numbers correspond to 0.24% and 0.37% of the projected US population at the 15- and 20-year horizons, respectively. For African Americans, we estimate 180 thousand and 270 thousand excess deaths over the next 15 and 20 years, respectively. These numbers correspond to 0.34% and 0.49% of the projected African American population at the 15- and 20-year horizons, respectively. For Whites, we estimate 0.82 and 1.21 million excess deaths over the next 15 and 20 years, respectively. These numbers correspond to 0.30% and 0.44% of the projected White population at the 15- and 20-year horizons, respectively. These numbers are roughly equally split between men and women."
Lockdowns work if you have a government like china or your country is an island. The us has neither, and thank god.
Lock downs are a pretty blunt tool. And I don’t think the best one. I would prefer fairly strict limits on industries where groups of strangers are in the same interior space without masks for extended times bars, restaurants), reduced capacity in interior spaces where people are not around each other for extended periods and wearing masks (retail), and real enforcement of masks.
My state tried that the first lockdown, but many people didn’t take masks seriously so this time they went fairly draconian and made masks mandatory anywhere besides your own property and stores would be closed if they were found to be spreaders. Much higher percentage of people wearing masks and our numbers are improving.
It’s unfortunate that governments have to be draconian, but individuals don’t have the best view of this. You don’t. I don’t. Experts do. Have you looked at what would happen if this was allowed to just run wild? The bad options (mutations, a yearly cycle like the flu, but much deadlier, the number of chronically ill from permanent lung damage ( it’s not just a choice between die or be fine, there are all sorts of options in between) are pretty scary.
I feel for my friends who have lost loved ones, I feel for my friends in the medical field who have been going all out on this for months and months and are exhausted, I feel for children’s present and future, I feel for all the businesses and all their employees. This is so bad for so many. But I don’t think governments are doing any of this to save face or put on a show. I know people in city government, I know leaders, I work with health care professionals and epidemiologists, and they’re all trying to figure out how to make this the best it can possibly be. To save lives. And to save businesses. I think people acting purely politically is mostly a myth. I think even people who I completely disagree with have their reasons for believing what they do and they aren’t being disingenuous but rather probably just weighing variables differently. And that if people actually sat down and talked and said here’s what I know and what I want the world to be like rather than starting from any pro or con position much of this would be so different. But hey it’s the internet so I’m just an evil anti business libtard.
I can only speak to California and we locked down a month and half ago, 6 weeks. If you're going by per capita, it's currently a Tennessee but we are #1 in cases which is a comical point. Comical in the sense that people love to use statistics however appropriate to improve their talking points. Side note: I think we should replace trigonometry with statistics in highschool, this pandemic has shown it is very lacking.
You don't think government is doing this to save face politically? Maybe you should look up what Newsom, London breed, woman from that sits on health board in LA, Austin mayor, the list goes on and on of people not adhering to these lockdowns; Brix for god sake. If you think they're continuing extreme draconian lockdowns (IN CA, no schools in person and no outdoor dining) like, actually lockdowns not limiting, because they think it stops it I've got a bridge to sell you. Most people aren't that dumb, they can google the CDC 2007 respiratory pandemic playbook with their time inside and see what is suggested. If there hadn't been absorbent amount of people implementing the policies not adhering to them (laughably hypocritical) maybe I'd believe they'd be doing it because they think it works. Maybe people have become so apathetic to politics that they vote for people this stupid? I do think it has shown the importance of local government.
I too know government officials (local at least). I know one epidemiologist and they are the most terrified person I hang out with, prior to the pandemic too, this is their wet dream. I much prefer my buddies brother who is an infectious disease doctor, much more down to earth. The epidemiologists screaming fire (which it is, but they shouldn't be dictating policies) are the ones calling the shots though, at least in CA. I also have 3 doctors in my immediate family in states that have worked in "over loaded" hospitals, they aren't exhausted. They chose to work 5-6 12hr shifts a week as a profession, they are fine with it. Experts like fauci that completely botched the HIV epidemic is perceived as a god on one side of the argument. The same fauci that said HIV can spread indoors in causal environments. (I think he's done an okay job btw).
Lastly, I totally agree that if California's inept politicians actually sat down and talked about pros and cons they would almost certainly come to different decisions. Probably even decisions that people would agree with (sans the terrified mask Karens)! I agree with limiting things and banning indoor concerts or really large gatherings. California doesn't do that though, they take the easy dumb route while rich politicians send their kids to private schools, in person.
gbdeclaration.org
This is a declaration with 700,000 people and 13,000 public health scientists and 40,000 medical practitioners, It talks about the great damage we are doing to young people by keeping them locked down and out of school. It talks about all the mental health issues related with these lockdowns
"We know that vulnerability to death from COVID-19 is more than a thousand-fold higher in the old and infirm than the young. Indeed, for children, COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms, including influenza."
"Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity."
Wanna come into this club /music festival? Stand in this room for 10 mins while your $10 test processes and we'll tell you if u can come in
Yes a bit more expensive for the individual, but peace of mind. Yes slow logistically for club or festival organizer, but at least they can put their event on
Something needs to happen to get life back to near normal, because I'm at a point of despair literally
. And I'm sure I'm not alone
My view is that improving testing would be less of a blow to people's freedoms
And re the inaccurate testing results; the results are inaccurate in the correct way... I.e they are over sensitive rather than under.
So the tests don't miss people who have the virus, but they might say people have the virus when they don't.
It would be a pita if you were refused access to a festival you'd paid for because of a false positive, but some people might prefer to take that risk once a year than break their religious beliefs (for example)
But simply having the majority of workplaces requiring, state-wide state worker requirements, and country-wide federal worker/military requirements, would probably get us over the line of herd immunity.
Even worse, is those that have health conditions that aren't Covid19, and have taken a beat, gotten worse, or worst, have died, due to Hospital limitations.
Never, ever thought, that will all hightech mambojambo worldwide, we would be in this place!
And even with vacin, the ecnomical part has made too much damages, that will require time...
Stay safe, be smart, and keep riding
Kudos too all health personal and care takers
It was also a pita to get to unless you live in London.
Even without COVID it would have been a difficult one, trade show future doesn’t look good.
rumble.com/vb52tn-truth-about-fauci-with-robert-f.-kennedy-jr.-and-david-e.-martin.html
Lets keep politics out of it. Stick to facts, logic and reason (and science). Wake up brothers. This is cray.
1And, the reason all these Leftist leaders (Woke) are killing businesses, is because they are going for Great Reset. If you are a developer in Manhattan and you're going to build a new skyscaper, what do you do? You knock down the current one first. They (Government) want businesses (and individuals) all broken and bust out so that guess who is the savior of last resort? Government. It's classic communism and control. Ayn Rand had a great quote: "There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote, it is merely the difference between murder and suicide. Add to this, you have the psycho Bill Gates who's dad was part of Eugenics, and Bill himself has been talking about overpopulation for years. Watch the David Martin video on Moderna, ALL PUBLIC AND TRUE DATA on what Moderna really is: a public shell company that Gates and Fauci financed (again, all public, go see for yourself), Moderna only went public in 2018! These outrageous people bought the patent on the virus, yes virus! in 2019, just months before it hit the streets - All public data in U.S. Patent filings.. This virus was offshored from University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill to Wuhan Labs in 2016. Guess who sprung it just before this election? Here's the interview:https://rumble.com/vb52tn-truth-about-fauci-with-robert-f.-kennedy-jr.-and-david-e.-martin.html
Can’t upvote enough.
apnews.com/article/us-coronavirus-deaths-top-3-million-e2bc856b6ec45563b84ee2e87ae8d5e7
www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
However, what people should look at is how non-lock down states compare to lock down states. Which you can do on that link... and it kind of shows lockdowns don't do much, which makes you ask, what's the motivation of California to keep locking down if it's not working?