New Owner of Chain Reaction Cycles & Wiggle Goes Public, $1 Billion Corporation Sets Sights on US Bike Industry

Dec 16, 2021 at 14:28
by Alicia Leggett  
CRCWiggle also owns Nukeproof and Vitus.

A merger with sports e-commerce giant Signa Sports United means that CRCWiggle - the parent company of Chain Reaction Cycles and Wiggle - is now part of a publicly-traded retail group with $1.8 billion in annual sales, Bicycle Retailer and Industry News reported.

SSU was recently acquired by Yucaipa Acquisition Corporation, a blank check company that allowed SSU to go public without going through the traditional IPO process. The Yucaipa Acquisition Corporation was already being traded on the New York Stock Exchange under the YAC symbol, and now the corporation will be traded under the symbol SSU.

SSU, a German group, didn't have much stake in US bike sales until now, but still claims to be the world's largest online bike retailer, with ProBikeShop and Bikester making up a large portion of its sales. Neither ProBikeShop nor Bikester sells to the US. Still, the group is forecast to do $1.1 billion in sales without including CRCWiggle revenue.

As the group expands, it has its sights set on the US bike industry. Prior to the merger, SSU's revenue comes 96% from the EU and 4% from the UK. CRCWiggle is SSU's chance at a foothold in the US bike industry, and the group's Q3 investor presentation indicates that the group plans to capitalize off the bike boom and especially the e-bike boom. CRCWiggle's revenue is 58% from the UK, 20% from the EU, 7% from the US, and 15% from the rest of the world, which SSU CSO called Phillipp Rossner calls a "perfectly complementary geographic sales footprint" to what SSU has already established.

In a bid to "accelerate" sales in the US, SSU also recently acquired Midwest Sports and Tennis Express, both of which are US-based tennis retailers. With those acquisitions, SSU is expected to generate 9% of its revenue from US sales. 63% of its revenue is expected to come from the bike segment.

Rossner also noted that the online sports retail market is still highly fragmented and said that SSU will be further looking to consolidate and increase its stronghold.


263 Comments

  • 196 3
 CRC is a shadow of the awesome online store it used to be. It's been such a dramatic shift to see product choices, stock, discounting all fall off substantially after going to Wiggle.
  • 47 7
 Is that wiggle or just reflective of the industry being effectively sold out right now.
  • 77 0
 @bulletbassman: I don't think so, they changed years ago not in the past 18 months. Nothing in stock, weird product lines with big gaps in what the offer, less and less competitive prices. If you're in Canada Jenson is just as bad now too.
  • 82 0
 @bulletbassman:
No. CRC went vertically down hill after the Wiggle merger. Prices shot up and stock went down. I all but stopped using them and went to the big Euro stores as well as Bike Tart, Tredz etc. Even post Brexit I still order from the EU as long as its under £130 and a return is unlikely. CRC is a tiny spec of its former self.
  • 11 2
 I agree with this totally it’s just not the same as it was. I think it’s generally the industry has caught up with the gravy train. CRC used to have the best deals and really good prices but it couldn’t continue like that for ever
  • 3 0
 @ilovedust: exactly right mate
  • 8 0
 @bulletbassman: CRC was my go-to previously, but prices have gotten less and less appealing. Only thing they have going is free international shipping past a certain price.

Currently, comparing prices and stock to other online retailers like bike24, they're definitely lagging by a good bit.
  • 13 0
 This. A few years back it would be easier for me to shop from CRC than the local sports franchise. CRC would have a huge catalog in stock, and DHL orders overseas to me the next day cheaply (around EUR 10-15).
Suddenly that all changed - lousy stock, non-competitive prices, and most importantly, no option for speedy delivery. Just annoying broker-based shipping which meant 2-3 weeks of waiting, customs delays etc.

Haven't used them since. My LBS really picked up their game at that time too, though.
  • 5 0
 @ilovedust: The choice we have in the UK for bike stuff is pretty ridiculous - tredz, merlin, biketart, leisure, wiggle/crc, sigma, tweeks, start fit & many more. Super competitive market I think and some of the reward schemes are phenomenal in my opinion for us the rider.
  • 13 1
 From an EU perspective, generally things have gone downhill for the consumer. Last 18 months, covid stock availability has removed the incentive for meaningful discounts, so we're left with bubble prices on just about everything. Between companies like bike-components going upmarket and hiking prices (they still have great small spares availability btw), mergers like Wiggle & CRC, and bankrupcies (Evan's is a shadow of its former self). Then brexit came, which cut continental customers off from many UK shops - tarrifs & shipping costs. Leaving a dwindling set of ze germans (bike24 & bike-discount), in country stores (for me) in Poland which are generally competive on shimano and sram components but not so much on anything else and a few random others.
I realise the level of discounting I was enjoying probably wasn't sustainable, but the pendulum has swung the other way now.
  • 4 0
 @ilovedust: I've felt the same - Sigma have really picked up their game recently - I was concerned there was a typo and Signa was Sigma. But it appears not. Pretty sure I'm using Tredz more, and actually my LBS, as I'm buying less big/new stuff and just need those little bits to keep the bikes rolling, which they seem to have, and don't charge extortionate shipping, when I can ride over there in 5 minutes!
  • 7 0
 @tomo12377: That's somewhat true, although a few of the stores you list do the super frustrating thing of listing products as being in stock when in reality they're only in stock with their supplier - meaning that there's at least a day or two to ship supplier-to-shop (if not more with shipping times currently), then eventually on to the customer.

I get it's better for the shop as they have to carry fewer products and have less money tied up in stock, but it sucks for the customer if they're in need of a part quickly. It just seems somewhat dishonest and also undercuts the shops who are investing in more stock and trying to provide a more typical (i.e. good) customer experience.

Do take your point that there are certainly more options out there now to step in to the gap CRC have left though!
  • 6 0
 Yeah CRC used to be the only place to buy stuff from, it was cheaper than everywhere else a f would ship stuff to you for free next day (and that really meant next day as long as you ordered before around 1pm). Now they seem to have no stock and don't seem to sell anything I want to buy, and it takes them days to get an order out the door. Now I use Tredz more as they have good discounts and free shipping, or leisure lakes, both have stepped their game up lately in terms of product lines, stock and pricing.
  • 11 0
 @plyawn: In my opinion, the worst part about CRC now is the 3rd rate shipping companies they use. Every time I order I end up having to pay insane duties and handling fees while the package is in transit. The price of the product has to be a fantastic deal to make it worth paying for the shipping
  • 2 0
 Big time, I spent thousands there over the years and it was my go to place for everything, vouchers for xmas and birthdays etc... and i know it was the same for the 80 or so in our club but now no one even bothers any more as the stock and pricing is a mess.

No offers are ever really genuine or a good saving anymore and the competition (bike24/alltricks/bike discount etc..) are all much better. (although alltricks customer support is atrocious)
  • 6 1
 @ilovedust: me to. i use www.merlincycles.com most of the ime now.
  • 12 0
 @plyawn: I’ve been supporting the Canadian online store TBS Bike Parts since CRC turned to the dark side.
They don’t have the largest product line, but they have what I need, the prices are decent, (& in CAD $) and the customer service is excellent. Best of all they offer free shipping on orders over $149. Which seems I’m always over.
  • 1 0
 @tomo12377: an absolutely top selection of retailers right there. Crc have been shit for the last few years , unfortunately coinciding with the loss of all the German stores
  • 5 2
 @ilovedust: For an European, it's not worth and doesn't make sense to buy anything from UK's stores anyway.
  • 4 0
 I'm not if it had anything to do with the merger but rather the backlash from bricks and mortar stores and distributers internationally that led to first SRAM products being geolocked then Shimano. There's a few other brands that also started blocking a lot of their products as well.
  • 3 0
 @danstonQ: For the UK it doesn't make sense to buy from CRC either, I'm glad most of my LBSs survived the onslaught from CRC, they'll be getting a good chunk of my cash in the new year for a drivetrain replacement.
  • 4 0
 @bj007: Never had an issue in the US most everything was shipped USPS and not once paid anything extra.
  • 1 0
 @tomo12377: I would agree. Nothing to complain about. In Canada, online options are much slimmer and UK and Euro sites are way better, as far as selection and pricing.
  • 3 0
 Disagree. I bought two Nukeproof bikes this year and everything was excellent about the experience. That said, I do see they have raised their frame prices for the 2022 models to where they aren't really good deals for a direct to consumer brand.
  • 8 0
 The biggest thing that ruined CRC is not Wiggle, it's Shimano's new regulations that removed every products for the US and CAN visitors. I used to be able to get a full shimano drivetrain at about the same price as my LBS cost shipped directly to my house. The rest of the CRC inventory has always been 80% junk
  • 2 0
 I'd agree, I got some killer prices (60+% off) on a bikestand, NP wheelset, tools, and shimano drivetrains. Granted the market is insane right now, but I haven't seen any of those deals since (early 2019 was my last CRC purchase). Deals were almost too good to be true.
  • 3 0
 I've had good luck with CRC this past year. The only bugger was accidentally crossing the $800 threshold for import duty on one order. But the product in question, a smart trainer, was still a great deal even after the duty.

CRC's shipping times have been pretty good. Tires arrived at my doorstep no more than 4 days from the date of purchase. A road bike arrived in a week. Longest wait so far has been 2 weeks which is perfectly acceptable given the distance traveled.

But it sounds like I need to expand my online shopping horizons? I have basically given up on Jenson. Prices there are high and stock is always low. Backcountry is ok. Kinda hate spending money there after the lawsuit fiasco. I still buy complete bikes and drivetrain items from my LBS. But for most wear items and small parts online shopping is just so much more convenient.
  • 1 0
 Huh, I think the quality and range of Nukeproof products has increased substantially over the past few years. Their bikes are all sold out for who knows how long, but their parts are still available and usually a good deal.
  • 2 0
 @plyawn: I haven't shopped in CRC after their shipping fiasco using Skynet courier that is based out of Vancouver and Toronto only in Canada. Free shipping will actually cost you more and if you have to pay for shipping, yeah expect to pay more after it lands in Toronto to clear customs by Skynet. Elsewhere in Canada, good luck trying to self-clear custom to save on extra duty and other charges. If you shop around, other European websites have even better deals with stock or JIT stock within a week.
  • 3 0
 Wiggle also went to shit during the CRC acquisition, so something happened in management during that acquisition that turned them both into trash. I used to buy from Wiggle all the time before the merger, but once they merged the inventory plummeted and both websites were essentially the same store with same inventory, just different headers. Shimano's ban on European websites selling to North America was essentially the nail in the coffin for them.
  • 1 0
 @CleanZine: i own a small online store and it is practically impossible to hold the volume of items available. Even choosing coloured tubeless valves has been a nightmare. I think its better for the consumer in the long run as suppliers are great at shipping quickly. I get pretty much all items next day to me.

I can offer a wide choice without having the liability and then i can pass on decent savings as i don’t have endless end if life inventory.

I get the customers frustration with it showing as in stock, but the customer needs to realise that its impossible to hold everything. One of my supplier has 40k line items!
  • 1 0
 @bj007: Skynet is such a joy to deal with. Swore off CRC the first time they made me use them.
  • 4 0
 @CSharp: @STRMTRPR Didn't skynet destroy the world in the Terminator movies? This is how it begins! They destroy CRC, and then move on to the rest of the human race.
  • 4 1
 @Lorieng: Doesn't that portray a fairly bleak vision of the future of online shops to you, though? If a shop is just placing an order online when a customer places an order online, what value are shops actually adding to a transaction to justify their existence? Essentially it's just increasing cost of products through the margin for the shop, as well as having to cover shipping twice rather than once. Most of the newer "order when we need it" shops just use the standard product photos from the distro/dealer/brand, with generally at best a copy-paste description from the same source. It seems inevitable that they - as the middle man - will eventually be cut out, and things like Madison introducing 'Freewheel' show how it's possible for distros to operate as B2C as well as B2B. To use a recent example, I needed a particular DT rim fairly urgently. I found them "in stock" at a few shops, but when I was at the final stage of checkout and trying to select the fastest shipping possible, the 'Express' options were generally 3-5 working days - aka "We don't have them in stock". In the end, I found that they were available through Freewheel so bought them from there. Effectively I was doing the same thing those shops were going to be doing anyway by ordering a rim from Madison.

I get you're talking about offering lower prices through not having to stock items, but then you're simply competing on price. Firstly, that only ends up with margins getting sliced, and ultimately the little shops will go before the big ones do. Secondly, the price could be made much better for customers if there wasn't a strata of shops to go through first.

Just for some additional disclosure, I work for an online bike shop that specialises in a fairly niche discipline. Our USP isn't that we have everything, operating within that same "order when we need it" framework, but that we curate a range of products that we think are good, and are the best choices for our customers. It means we don't necessarily get the broadest range of customers because we're not appearing high on Google's Shopping results because we're happy to chip an extra 20p off the price of something to be cheapest, but we get repeat customers because people know that we stock products we believe in, we only ever say something is 'In stock' if it's physically in our shop, and consequently when they select 'Next day delivery' that - assuming they're not past the cut-off date - they'll actually get next day delivery, rather than some day in future once the supplier order has been placed, then received, then shipped on again.

I can see a place for both types of shop, but some better expectation setting for customers is probably going to be in order, rather than wasting people's time by claiming an item is 'In stock'.
  • 1 0
 I used to check CRC for anything I wanted and not even bother looking on any other site, now I don't even bother to check CRC as it's same to assume they don't have it in stock.
  • 69 1
 This should provide more competition to the US market?

I'd like to see Propain and Vitus become more popular.
  • 19 0
 Agree, Propain has some small US distribution but would be cool to see more of those around
  • 53 0
 I'd like to see Nukeproof more available.
  • 14 0
 Competition is great for consumers, esp in a normal market (i.e - pre covid). I hope they do make an impact in the US and then in a year or two when supply issues are resolved, we will see some good old competition. And get back to those year end blow outs of Evil , Santa Cruz and Intense bikes.. Wink
  • 36 1
 @Three6ty: over consolidation leads to less competition overall and higher prices for consumers in the long run. But maybe the prices will be good for a couple years a while the titans try to to undercut each other before a few emerges as the hegemons with more market power, the real end goal all along.
  • 15 0
 @bman33: Propain? What’s the connection?
  • 65 220
flag EvoRidge (Dec 16, 2021 at 18:11) (Below Threshold)
 @pinkbike Won’t talk about Kyle Warner’s life altering vaccine injury and his sworn testimony in Washington D.C. sharing his very real experience—check his Instagram for reference

This happened a month+ ago. Still silence from pinkbike. We lost a real rider y’all. A real racer. A real person.
Him and many many other people. Plus 9 other folks facing vaccine adverse reactions that testified along with Kyle.

Bless. Time to start investigating who has the largest criminal fine paid in court—Pfizer for bribing doctors, manipulating test data and withholding data on known side effects of their once FDA approved products.

I love you
  • 9 0
 @bman33: @remymetailer has done a good job of promoting the company.
  • 4 1
 @njcbps: agreed. And he's one of my favorite writers, really like his style
  • 80 9
 @EvoRidge: I went to Kyle Warners Instagram expecting crazy antivax. But he lays out what happened to him is rare and he’s supports people choosing to get vaccinated. Still I can’t blame PB for not wanting to touch such a toxic subject.

Hang in there dude.
  • 19 70
flag bikeetc (Dec 16, 2021 at 19:59) (Below Threshold)
 @EvoRidge: 100%
  • 11 0
 @Fullsend2-13: I dunno, I just had a Nukeproof shipped to the US from CRC for $120, and they paid all taxes and duties. Couldn't find a better deal on any bike in the US.
  • 19 0
 @Three6ty: I am not sure this will be the case. The guy behind Signa Sports does not seem to be exactly a decent fellow. This year, they took over Tennis-Point and since then they have made exclusive retail contracts for Wilson and Dunlop and are now starving out smaller shops and pressure them to sell their businesses. Dude has excellent ties to politicians that are at the same time also involved in the Austrian Tennis Federation. This way, he has not only been protected from anti-monopoly complaints, he also gets endorsed by the Federation. Where is this going to lead for tennis? They will do low prices for a while and continue taking over and then they will dictate prices.
I don't want to see the same thing happening for cycling, which is why I strictly don't buy from any of the associated bike companies such as bikester and Bruegelmann.
  • 3 15
flag weeksy59 (Dec 16, 2021 at 23:05) (Below Threshold)
 I did a demo day on a Vitus, my lad and his mate all rode demo bikes too as part of a photoshoot for Vitus.... None of us could get off them quickly enough. Yuk.
  • 6 2
 How the shit do they think they are going to sell Nukeproof bikes in America when they can’t even make enough to service demand on this little island?
  • 3 0
 @weeksy59: why’s that then? Most have the opposite experience.
  • 1 1
 @jaame: I suppose the huge investment will give them capital to expand production.

Time for their own factory possibly, won’t happen overnight though no.
  • 2 3
 @justanotherusername: I'm not sure how much of it was poor upkeep or how much was bad bikes. The handling was way off. My lad usually does the black gaps at the end of a particular run, but after riding the Vitus on the red he jumped off it and said "no way am i doing them on it"... 2 of the other lads basically did what they had to for the photoshoot and then parked both their bikes up too. It'll be funny if they're ever used in the photoshoot Big Grin
  • 3 2
 @jaame: maybe they have realised the UK is f*cked right now
  • 1 1
 @jaame: We'll buy them.
  • 2 0
 @justanotherusername: Signa is always short on cash lately anyways and squeezes money out of his aquisitions f.ex. by making them pay very high rent for buildings his companies own. And being good friends with politicans from Germany and Austria he is good at getting subsidies for like everything.

www.handelsblatt.com/finanzen/immobilien/immobilien-benkos-geldregen-signa-holding-meldet-ueberraschend-hohen-gewinn/27036708.html

Also read what @skerm or @jzPV have posted
  • 3 1
 @bman33: I can fully understand your desire for the Propain stuff, as they are great bikes for your hard earned $$$.
Sadly Propain will not be affected by this merge, so you still need to order by their current sales chanel...
  • 3 5
 @EvoRidge: C'mon bruh, everyone knows Outside is in bed with big Pharma...
  • 2 2
 @Artigas: Propain and propain accessories connected to propain gauges and propain regulators for propain coming down the lines.
  • 10 6
 @Randy-Verified: I found Kyle on YouTube a year ago and think his teaching abilities are really impressive. He’s anti-mandate not antivax. His whole message is where there is risk there should be choice, which is more than reasonable. I think PB doesn’t want to open that can of worms of an issue which I respect. I hope Kyle makes a full recovery over the next year. For those that do decide to get the shot please make sure it’s done by someone that knows what they are doing!!! Kyle has stated that his shot may have been directly injected into a vein versus into the muscle tissue which resulted in too much spike protein settling into his heart causing his pericarditis. I suspect that this is a reason for most adverse reactions as the reactions would be immediate as seen with Kyle’s and many others. Look into vaccine aspiration and if your administrator doesn’t know what that is find someone else to give you the shot! I’m also an advocate of natural immunity from previous infection. If you’ve had the virus getting vaccinated is futile and you’re only submitting yourself to extra risk. I’m not a medical practitioner but I do condone people to look into what’s best for themselves.
  • 10 20
flag jaame (Dec 17, 2021 at 9:36) (Below Threshold)
 @CuyunaHTmn: I’m all about choice. Mandating vaccines is the same as mandated rape.
  • 8 1
 Everytime I come on pinkbike it appears to have turned into the pond life of facebook ….. how very ofd
  • 7 4
 @jaame: That's an unfortunate comparison. Those mandating vaccines believe it to be a good for humanity, even if their approach is misguided.
  • 8 9
 @njcbps: “The path to hell is paved with good intentions”. The comparison may come off as vulgar but intrinsically it is sound. It’s a forceful medical procedure that beyond good intentions sets a legislative precedent that allows authority to make decisions about your health. If they are allowed to mandate medical procedures then it opens up a lot of evil avenues where you get to the possibility of things like forced sterilization of people with genetic disease/deficiency.
  • 1 0
 @BeerIsSoAwesome: right, but they're completely sold out. Which is why I said I would like to see them more available. The bike shortage is affecting everyone tho so I guess this logic could be applied to many other companies.
  • 1 1
 @skerm: see also... Amazon
  • 12 5
 @jaame: That is the most idiotic comparison I have ever seen, well done.

Mandating a vaccine is the same as mandating non consensual sex upon a person? Are you mentally disturbed?
  • 1 0
 If they can put a physical warehouse in the US and provide shipping of Shimano parts to the North America continent (even just within US) with similar low prices we see in Europe, I'll be ecstatic! North Americans (especially Canadians) have been f*cked by bad pricing forever! It's not a big surprise there are so many Canadians and Americans shop online on the other side of the continents.
  • 6 4
 @CuyunaHTmn: People who make this argument about "choice" don't really want a choice. They have a choice. What they really want is a choice without consequences. Unfortunately that's not how the world works. Every choice we make has a consequence of some kind.

No one is being forced to get a vaccine. If your employer mandates vaccines to work there you still have a choice. You can find another job. If restaurants require vaccines to eat there you have a choice to go somewhere else or eat your food at home. If and airline requires it you have a choice to just not fly or find another method of travel.

You always have a choice, but with those choices comes consequences. For example you may not like that your employer requires a vaccine, and it may a very difficult choice to quit your job but that's still a choice. The people you work with or the people who work at the restaurant or the people who work for the airline all have the right to do their jobs too, and feel safe doing it.
  • 2 0
 @justanotherusername: I was going to call you names but you are redeemed
  • 3 1
 @sino428: I’m not talking about what the private sector decides for itself. I’m addressing the Government’s role in this. Yeah the people entering businesses and harassing employees and patrons over a store’s mask requirements is ridiculous. I still believe in medical confidentiality with the caveat that you’re sexual partners should be notified of certain STDs before intimacy. What the private sector should be allowed to do tends to be a lot more nuanced.
My beliefs on how private parties should do business with one another is a LOT less set in stone. Here in the U.S. our government is supposed to be subservient to us, We The People. Whenever possible, the government should be left out of the picture when private parties are dealing with one another. We could go down that road on how much a private business is allowed to discriminate, but I’d rather not. That sort of stuff usually works itself out over time as people vote with their money
  • 3 0
 Why? I'd rather support local brands like Guerrilla Gravity, Revel, Evil, Salsa, Fezzari, Intense, Pivot etc. or see someone like Wolf Tooth get in the game. Regardless, small European brands have a horrible track record for warranty and customer service work in the US. Too many great choices here.
  • 3 2
 @EvoRidge: hey, hey, hey, you can't make truthful comments when "the" vaccine is involved. In such cases the truth is wrong!
  • 3 3
 @njcbps: You have absolutely no reasonable basis for that statement.
Historically, politicians are power-hungry, unscrupulous liars, yet somehow they have your blind trust?
Do Canadians go through compliance indoctrination at a young age?
  • 2 5
 @sino428: it's not a fair choice when you're being told to take a substance that a) doesn't do it's job b) comes with a small chance of giant risks AND if you don't, your livelihood is at risk.
That kind of "choice" follows the basic rules of how the mafia sets up protection rackets, it is extortion.
  • 2 5
 @CuyunaHTmn: what is the government’s role? I don’t know of any government rule that forces the general public to get a vaccine. Even the proposed rule for large businesses gives people a choice between getting vaccinated or taking a weekly test.
  • 7 3
 @sonuvagun: what about the choice other people have to make surrounding their lively hood? Why should other people at the workplace have to deal with the increased risk that unvaccinated people bring? How is that a fair choice when they just want to go to work and have it be as safe as possible?

The truth is the vaccine while not perfect does do it’s job, and the risks of covid dwarf the risks of the vaccine. If the vaccine comes with ‘giant’ risks because of some very very rare side effects, how do you describe 800K people in the US dead?
  • 3 2
 @sino428: There isn’t a rule at the moment. That doesn’t mean we can’t discuss the proposals. Are you implying we can only talk about it after the fact? That’d be silly. Shoot first ask questions later? Bomb a country and then only after try to rationalize it? Btw, I’m pretty sure the most available type of test you can take, the one our government deemed worthy to spend our hard earned tax money on, was just recently was recalled for an absurd amount of false positives. Again, if a private party wants to test their employees every week, more power to them! Leave that decision to the free market. Everyone gets a choice like you said. I wouldn’t mind at all if my employer covered the costs and I’d be able to gain employment elsewhere if I did mind.
  • 4 4
 @sino428: Sorry, didn’t see your most recent post. Simple answer though! If the Vaccine works why should the vaccinated care?

800k people died with* covid, not necessarily from covid. That number is further inflated by the incredibly large amount of false positives provided by the faulty tests our government wasted tax money on.

If you want to pivot the convo into vaccine efficacy I’ll oblige you. In my rudimentary research on the matter I’ve concluded that the vaccine, all things considered, and depending on your situation, is neither very effective or detrimental. I think there are a lot of people out there administering the shots the wrong way(accidental mainlining). I think the adverse reactions number is artificially low due to the protocol of a patient not being considered vaccinated until 2 weeks have past post inoculation. A seemingly high amount of bad reactions have happened within a few days post jab which in turn don’t count towards reaction numbers since not enough time had lapsed. Just my hot take, none of what I’ve just regurgitated would I be willing to die on a hill for, just how I’ve inferred the vast swath of information out there!
  • 2 5
 @sonuvagun: a) demonstrably wrong , b) do you drive a car? AND do you need qualifications for your job?
  • 2 0
 @EvoRidge: eat your deads
  • 4 8
flag jaame (Dec 18, 2021 at 0:43) (Below Threshold)
 @justanotherusername: forced penetration of your body against your will. I don’t think it’s an idiotic analogy at all in the case of those countries where vaccination is mandatory.

Just like a person having the right to choose what penis penetrates their body, a person also deserves the right to choose what needle penetrates their body.

I agree with the people saying you have a choice and to a point I agree. You do have a choice, until you don’t. The vaccine targets should be achieve through education and persuasion, not legislation. If people are going to be excluded from certain things by choosing to not have the vaccine then so be it - that’s up to them. I’ve been jabbed because I wanted the vaccine in me (consensual sex). I didn’t get jabbed because I was forced to have the needle in me (rape). Down with vaccine mandates. Up with people being convinced to be vaccinated through good reason.

As for Nukeproof bikes being more widely available, I was more referring to the fact that they can’t physically manufacture enough of them. There wasn’t even a waiting list for my local dealer to get on last time I inquired. It was just “sold out”. It’s OK because I ended up buying an Enduro which is arguably a better bike anyway, but I would love another Mega.
  • 8 6
 @jaame: You seriously completely deranged, aren’t you? - you and any other freak that’s up-voted the complete and utter vile shit you have just written.

Isn’t this place moderated @pinkbike ?
  • 1 6
flag sonuvagun (Dec 18, 2021 at 2:20) (Below Threshold)
 @sino428: Risk? Why should anyone have to deal with anyone's risk? If you drive over the speed limit, you're more likely to hurt someone than if you exposed them to a virus that is as deadly as the flu.
If you fly down a multi-use trail then you put hikers at risk. If you pass someone on a single track, you put them at risk.
How is it that you or others get to determine it is fair for someone to take a small risk on very serious side effects?
As safe as possible? Buddy, the only way out of this life is dying- how safe is that?

If the vaccine does it's job then take it and don't worry about whether or not someone else has.
  • 3 4
 @justanotherusername: obviously you’ve missed the point
  • 3 7
flag freestyIAM (Dec 18, 2021 at 8:31) (Below Threshold)
 @jaame: there is no point. Just a jackass (you) that won't STFU. go back to 4chan you parasite.
  • 1 3
 @freestyIAM: how rude
  • 4 3
 @CuyunaHTmn: to your first point, this vaccine like many others is very effective, but clearly does not offer 100% protection. It greatly reduces the chance or severe illness but does not eliminate it. So the argument that vaccinated people should not care what other people do isn’t really a valid one.

To your second point, the numbers are not inflated. Thinking they are is just conspiracy nonsense. Even if people had some other condition that contributed, the point is they would not have died at this point in their life if they had not contracted covid. Many of the most common comorbidities for covid deaths like diabetics, obesity, cancer, etc are all survivable and manageable. Even if I took it to an extreme abs said only 1/2 these people died of covid that’s still 400k people dead of the disease (not to mention those who survived with permanent damage) vs how many that died from the vaccine? I don’t know of any credible reports that anyone has died from getting the vaccine.

To your third point about the vaccines not being effective, there is just no evidence to support that conclusion. I’m not sure how else to put it. Like I said earlier the covid vaccine is not perfect, but it does greatly reduce chances of severe cases and death. All the numbers bear this out. The vast majority of people in the hospital or dying these days are not vaccinated.

I’m not for the government forcing anyone to get a vaccine. And the reason I don’t see much point in discussing it is because it hasn’t been proposed and I don’t think there is much chance it ever will be here in the US. But like you I have no problem with employers, private business, etc requiring it.

My original post was about people wanting a choice. I think people should have the choice, but there is a big difference between wanting choice and wanting choice with no consequence.
  • 2 10
flag sonuvagun (Dec 18, 2021 at 14:13) (Below Threshold)
 @sino428: Very effective yet you need 3 or 4 shots of it? and effective against a virus with a >97% survivability yet you still demand everyone get it? Padded walls much?

Yes, the numbers are inflated. Everyone knows this, except you and some sky-is-falling grannies.

Yes, there is ample evidence the vaccine isn't effective. Put simply, the very fact that vaccination neither ensures protection from infection nor protects others from you infecting them is proof. The fact J&J's vaccine has recently received a red-flag warning says it isn't. Astrazenica's effectiveness declined by almost 40% after a mere 3 months, you mumbling muffin-brained dipshit. The fact Pfizer is now calling for a 4th shot says the previous 3 couldn't have been that effective. Seriously, are you trolling or trying to give retards a bad name?

Damn near everything you wrote is categorically wrong. How the fcuk do you even navigate an expiry date when you can't get these simple things right?

God damn, you're too stupid to even know you're stupid and will probably go on pushing government and big pharma agendas till the the day you drop dead, cause after all, the government and big pharma wouldn't lie to you, right? F'n dumbass.
  • 7 2
 @sonuvagun: post some of that "ample evidence." Good lord, why can't morons like you, with tiny dicks and even smaller brains, just STFU. Go back to jerking off in mom's basement.

You need multiple shots because immunity wanes! Wow. Not unique to this vaccine. You can still infect others because it isn't 100% effective. It is in the 90% range for preventing death. Best odds you got, dumbass.

Put it this way, if there was a 90% chance you could actually get gainful employment, and move out of your mom's f*cking basement, she would take that in a second. Pretty good odds. Besides, she and Phil deserve to be able to make tender love without you storming around, ranting about how you're out of Totino's pizza rolls. Now shut the f*ck up and shave off your neck beard, you shit-spewing moron.
  • 1 3
 @sino428: You’re saying nobody has died from the vaccine? Yeah, that’s because protocol requires 14 days post inoculation for a person to be considered vaccinated. If someone dies within that time frame it’s an unvaxxed death. Not only does that inflate one tally but it also deflates the other. There is a large amount of verified VAERS cases on top of those that haven’t been vetted. This process takes a lot of time, but it’s catching up. I feel like you’re kind of just echoing Globocorp media headlines at this point.

wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D8;jsessionid=1022BAF04214B2EDF4187D968378

Looks like of the 700k-ish adverse reactions in the US, there have been 10k reported deaths. Not sure if those are all confirmed numbers, but yeah there is a small risk of death contrary to the tally of zero that you purported.
  • 1 3
 Yeah I don’t think that link will work. But on the search page this time around I searched by vaccine type, deaths by month, and limited it to reports completed for the last 3 years. And the number was 11k deaths.

Not trying to get people that are pro vax in a gotcha moment and I’m not necessarily anti vax myself, never really cared t dive into the reports. Ive had the bug and believe in my natural immunity. My main concern has and will always be the attempt of a mandate for something that most definitely caries risk.
  • 3 1
 @CuyunaHTmn: you are misunderstanding what the VAERS system is used for. Any death that occurs within certain time after vaccination has to be reported there by Healthcare providers, regardless of where they think there is a link to the vaccine or not. Say a person with cancer gets the vaccine, then dies of cancer 2 months later, that gets report as a death in the system. There are a ton of articles out there explaining how VAERS works and what the numbers really mean.

Even before covid, thousands of people in the US die every day, for all types of reason. Many of those deaths sudden and unexpected. So considering there are millions of people that have received that vaccine, of course there will be many reports of ‘people dying after receiving the vaccine’. But that doesn’t mean there is a causal relationship between the vaccine and those deaths, because as we know many people simply die each anyway. The only reports of confirmed deaths I could find were a handful of people who died of blot clots after the J&J vaccine.

Like I said i don’t think I’d support a government mandate that required everyone to get one, but I have no problem if businesses, employers, etc require them.
  • 1 1
 @sino428: I am aware how it works and that any reaction has to be reported by medical staff, just wanted to throw some umbrella numbers out there. Adverse reactions, death included, are a possibility of pretty much any vaccine. You’re statement about not hearing about anyone dying from the shot must’ve been a personal anecdote then, which makes sense now.
  • 2 2
 @TheRamma: I wrote three examples which, if you can logically process the English language, clearly prove the vaccine doesn't work.

The nobel prize winning virologist Luc Montagnier explained how the vaccine isn't going to work the way you want. But "official" online debunkers apparently know he suddenly has no sense on the matter of viruses....

Oh "immunity wanes," oh that's a fun way of saying the vaccine doesn't work. How many shots are willing to roll up your sleeve for? Three? Four? More?

By what measure are you claiming it works as an effective vaccine?

You want to trust politicians and pharmaceutical companies to do the right thing? Really? Good luck with that, buddy boy.

Neckbeard? Mom's basement? Even your insults are just your way of saying you have no original thoughts.
  • 2 1
 Without wanting to get political or stir the pot for either POV, how many jabs are going to be required are we thinking? With the way the virus is mutating, it seems unlikely to be three or four, in my opinion. More likely it will be one or two a year for the next few years. 15-20 if one follows the directives I’m thinking. Maybe one every winter for life, much like the flu.
  • 2 2
 @jaame: As told to me by a client, (assistant director of an icu), the thing with with flu vaccinations is they are for the dominant strains of flu in the respective geographic area where they are administered.
I don't know about now, but in past decades, central and eastern europeans were given flu vaccinations for the dominant strains in western europe. Unsurprisingly, a number of people then got infected with the local dominant flu variant and died. That's just one example of how profit trumped medicine and logic.

Who was held accountable? No one. Who's accountable for the current covid-19 side effects? The victims. Consequences for the little guy, none for those with power. And people like sino428 celebrate this, wtf?
  • 5 3
 @sonuvagun: Ha! The guy repeating standard anti-vax facebook meme bullshit is suddenly concerned with being original. That's wonderful.

Your examples are anecdotal evidence without a broader context. People talking about myocarditis from the vaccine (at a rate of 0.005%) without mentioning the rate of myocarditis from NaTuRaL infection (0.14%) are not looking at things logically. You're just fear-mongering.

www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm

www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068665

Luc Montagnier can have his theories about the vaccine inducing variants, but I'm going to need a little more evidence than expert opinion from the guy who pushes homeopathy, and started his own journal so he can publish without peer-review. Rubes like you will believe any grifter who says what you want to hear.

Immunity waning means exactly that. The vaccine induces good immunity for a period of time. Then it doesn't. Get a booster. That's how immunity works, sometimes.

The vaccine works based on evidence that it reduces rates of death and hospitalization. It also decreases the risk of infecting other people. This has been demonstrated again, and again.

I don't "trust" anyone. I look at the evidence. I don't hunt for quacks that will spew whatever nonsense I want to hear.
  • 4 3
 @sonuvagun: ha. you really are trying every sad-sack bullshit internet arguing tactic. Now you have a friend who totally assistant directs an ICU, who also knows about how and why strains are included in flu vaccines. The fact that you don't realize how ridiculous that is just shows how far out of your depth you are.
  • 5 2
 @sino428: 19000 people have died from the vaccine. 13000 from myocarditis caused by it. All public information.

800k people died in the US, WITHOUT TREATMENT. All public information.

you must live with your head in the sand.
  • 3 2
 @DetroitCity: If it’s public information then post a link.
  • 2 1
 @TheRamma:

Think of it like this

Reviewer on pinkbike buy this f*cking bike it’s awesome in our opinion review = many people people believing every single word of it

Scientific community saying this vaccine may not always work but it might and it could save your life = no one believing a f*cking word of it unless sue from number 42 who is a facebook educated virologist says so

Way I see it you makes a choice
  • 1 1
 @TheRamma: interesting logic, yet you'll buy into what the billion (maybe trillion) dollar industry is selling. I'll leave you to it.
  • 1 1
 @TheRamma: whats the standard treatment for covid based on all your sources.
  • 3 3
 @sino428: by the sounds of it, you wrote the treatment protocol for covid. You should have all the information BEFORE you make stupid f*ckinh comments like no one has died from the vaccine when its approaching 20k deaths. 800k people died because they were left untreated to die. Stay home until you are about to die and do nothing is not treatment. Do you think they would be able to lock the whole world down if only 8k people died? SENSATIONALISM. Bro.

If you want to have an intelligent discussion don't start off by saying no has died from the vaccine. Then when given proof try and explain it away. We get it, you're brainwashed. Lick those boots and go ride.
  • 2 1
 @TheRamma: tolerance and apathy are virtues of a dying society.
  • 3 3
 @DetroitCity: There is no need to tolerate people who spread lies online to make themselves feel smarter. Which you do Post a source for your claim about how many people died from vaccination. Using VAERS just shows you have no idea what VAERS is, how it operates, and how to interpret data from it.

You can't master epidemiology with Google and YouTube, especially not with all the garbage out there during this pandemic. You just get mislead and end up repeating whatever nonsense appeals to your previous biases. Hence why you're so quick to accept and repeat that 19000 people died from vaccines, and 13000 from vaccine-induced myocarditis. Even though there is no credible source that I can find which backs that up.

As to treatment protocols, I am not up to date, since I don't treat COVID patients. Also seems unrelated to your little rants and nonsense that you like to spread online.
  • 2 1
 @sonuvagun: Is this your way of tucking your tail and running? Good move, you're outclassed here in every way. Just feel sorry for your waifu pillow, you're going to give it to her extra hard tonight with all that frustration.

Just STFU and stop spreading COVID nonsense online.
  • 2 4
 @TheRamma: vaccines aren't treatment Dr idiot. You took an oath to treat the sick patients in front of you. Not vaccine your way out of treatment while 800k untreated patients die to push your vaccine induced narrative.

Dr.s are not allowed to recommend vaccines under the Nuremberg convention. Yet here we are with another ideological idiot dr breaking all oaths and past treatment protocols to push this vaccine as your savior narrative.

Tolerance and apathy are the virtues of a dying society- you've been warned

You may be able to manipulate your mind, but not mine.
  • 2 2
 @TheRamma: especially since Google censors everything that doesn't fit their narrative and youtube is owned by Google.

You should get a nobel prize for being such a genius.
  • 1 1
 @DetroitCity: he might use TOR
  • 2 1
 @DetroitCity: I’m still waiting for that link.
  • 1 1
 @DetroitCity: ha, when did I say I was a physician? I'm just immeasurably smarter than you about medicine, which puts me in a big majority in this world.

The Nuremburg convention prevents doctors from recommending vaccines?!?!?!?!? Are you serious right now?

What exactly are you warning me of? Sounds like you will be ranting about evil vaccines right up until they intubate your dumb ass. Please be sure to share your thoughts on physicians with the staff treating you.

Pretty sure I can't manipulate your mind. That would be like riding a bike with no handlebars or drivetrain.
  • 1 2
 @TheRamma: you assume you are smarter than me. Spoken like a true Dr. I would expect nothing less. As well as wishing covid on me. You sound like a person of real high ethical standards.

Based on your propaganda I should have died a long time ago. I dont even wash my hands after I poop.

Huh, we born not knowing, are we born knowing all?
We growing wiser, are we just growing tall?
Can you read thoughts, can you read palms?
Huh, can you predict the future, can you see storms, coming?
The earth was flat if you went too far you would fall off
Now the earth is round if the shape change again
Everybody woulda start laugh
The average man can't prove of most of the things
That he chooses to speak of
And still won't research
And find out the root of the truth that you seek of
Scholars teach in Universities
And claim that they're smart and cunning
Tell them find a cure when we sneeze
And that's when their nose start running
And the rich get stitched up, when we get cut
  • 2 2
 @TheRamma: the covid shots are an experiment. Drs cannot coerce patients into participating in science experiments. They also can not coerce anyone into taking vaccines.

Let me guess, its not an experiment because it has emergency approval.
  • 3 2
 @TheRamma: Tucking and running? Don't be delusional, this is an internet forum, not a wolf pack on the tundra.
Here it is in a less confusing format for you:
If someone is going to claim a Nobel prize winning virologist has no clue what he's talking about with regards to a virus, then that person better have equal or better qualifications or achievements. Were you awarded a Nobel prize in virology? My suspicion is you're not at that expert's level and it bothers you, deeply.

However, if that same person claims said expert is only taking the stance he is because he's looking to make a buck then one would expect that same person to use the kind of scepticism (critical thinking) towards the industry which is generating billions upon billions on vaccines all around the globe. If that person can't or won't do that then there's no conversation.

You read what I wrote about prior flu vaccines in Europe. If you want to believe I just made that up then that's your problem.

You can now go back to imagining yourself a wolf, running across the tundra, or whatever the hell is going on in your mind.
  • 3 1
 @DetroitCity: I think the "I don't wash my hands after I poop" claim is the only one of yours I won't question. Isn't there a social worker there to do it for you?

Going to post that link about the 19000 vaccine deaths already?
  • 3 2
 @sonuvagun: Well, more Nobel prize winning virologists disagree with Montagnier. You're just making a selective appeal to authority. "Listen to this one Nobel prize winning virologist who says what I want to hear, ignore all the others! They're just shills for big pharma!"

Montagnier has pushed discredited homeopathy in his "expert opinion," so his track record is pretty mixed. He also started a journal so he could publish without real peer review, also a pretty shady move.

I'm not arguing I'm a wolf, I'm arguing I'm able to read and digest scientific information.

You still don't realize how comedically unhinged it sounds to say "I know a guy who works in an ICU, and he told me big pharma screwed over Eastern Europe with flu shots!" That's like saying you know the guy at the local discount tire warehouse, and he told you that Maxxis was purposefully making their tires wear out faster. Only a dumbass would believe he had that kind of insider knowledge. Congratulations, dumbass.

You're not asking for skepticism, you're spouting bullshit with no evidence to back it up. So, again, STFU and slink away. You've got to get up early tomorrow, and pretend to go to job interviews so mom doesn't kick you out of the house.
  • 3 2
 @DetroitCity: yeah, your grasp of the legalities of medicine seems airtight. You oughta go talk to those physicians that don't know what they're doing. They're in violation of the Nuremburg Convention! OMG!

f*cking moron neckbeards on the internet. You haven't cracked the code by listening to Alex Jones. You're dumber than you were before, just more confidant.
  • 2 1
 @TheRamma: (sigh) Revealing you're not a wolf was good. For a minute there, I was worried a wild canine lupus was masquerading as a pro-big pharma mtb enthusiast.
At this point, all you're doing is repeating yourself. You cower from addressing your own logical inconsistency. Even your attempts to insult are just thoughtless repetition, you couldn't be more boring.
  • 2 1
 @TheRamma: never argue with an idiot they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience
  • 2 1
 @Compositepro: right? Can't figure out if this guy is doing a bit at this point, kind of reminds me of Charlie's crow obsession from It's Always Sunny with his whole wolf thing.
  • 1 0
 @Fullsend2-13: They currently have Nukeproof Scouts in-stock in wheel size 275 and 290, in every size, "Comp" and Pro" level. They also have the Race (entry-level) 290 in L and XL.
  • 1 1
 @EvoRidge: he didn’t provide “sworn testimony”, he participated in panel discussion hosted by Ron Johnson, an anti-COVID vaccine nutcase!
  • 49 2
 Great now america can have access to a store that never has anything in stock as well, thanks for ruining crc wiggle
  • 7 0
 Not sure that changes anything. I’ve bought parts and bike frames from wiggle and CRC for the last couple years.
  • 9 0
 I shopped at CRC for a long time. (My one LBS is millionaires/dentists only) an since the buy out.. the bargains an sales, last years models sell offs have been terrible to non existence.
  • 2 1
 @nojzilla: not true. If you’re after women’s gear or XXS/XXL there are heaps of bargains.
  • 40 0
 All I care about is being able to buy shimano parts again Smile
  • 7 0
 You still won't be able to, shimano europe still inhibits the sales to outside of europe
  • 9 1
 We may need to take a giant shift and accept it's a microshift world.....
  • 5 0
 @elrad: Microshift, Campagnolo, Box, TRP, Rotor, Ingrid, Classified, Pinion, Effigear, Kinderay, etc
  • 4 0
 eBay dude
  • 7 3
 @rickybobby18: Fore some nice fakes
  • 3 0
 I don't think CR sells any shimano beyond what comes on complete bikes. They stopped a few years ago if I remember correctly.
  • 2 0
 @plyawn: only to NA. The short and simple version is they were doing grey market stuff as they were selling components that they were getting as a bike brand was supposed to be used for bike builds and selling at a huge discount which tanked the market in Canada and the US and Shimano called them out.
  • 4 0
 Maybe someone should start smuggling shimano parts from Russia to Canada on ships. In the cold war times people from Poland we smuggling vodka to Sweden on yachts. A guy told me that they would load a yacht full of vodka and as soon as they arrive random people came and took as much as they coul carry Wink They used the money to fund a Mediterranean cruise...
  • 3 0
 @kiddlivid: was crazy for a while being able to buy bike parts to your door for less than what local shops were paying wholesale.
  • 1 0
 @wburnes: this would be good more competition as said above rather than a two way monopoly (though im sure you cant actually have a two way monopoly, hey its before breakfast time)
  • 1 0
 @kiddlivid: Do bike build parts come in retail boxes? Everything I got from them back then was in retail packaging
  • 1 0
 @lkubica: Where are you going to dock the boat though? Ports are back up dozens deep!
  • 1 0
 @Noeserd: Shimano in USA... why CRC/Wiggle never did this in the first place is a mystery to me.
  • 3 0
 @kiddlivid: It wasn't for the 'brown box' OEM Shimano stuff - Merlin actually still sells OEM Shimano to USA customers to this very day...I just bought some a week ago.

The restriction came because Shimano Europe and Shimano North America have different pricing structures for retail packaged product, which American retailers cried foul over. Basically America is subsidizing the rest of the world with inflated pricing, and the only way Shimano tried to stop it was going after large retailers like CRC/Wiggle instead of actually fixing the broken American distribution/pricing system. The fact a consumer can walk into a local bike shop in Holland and pay less for Shimano than what a local bike shop in America pays at their cost is complete bullshit, and Shimano has still not fixed this issue and pricing discrepancy.
  • 1 0
 @Jamminator: spot on 100%
  • 1 0
 @Noeserd: All SSU needs to do is open a USA fulfillment center so they can regain the rights to sell Shimano in USA... why CRC/Wiggle never did this in the first place is a mystery to me.


[repost...original got messed up]
  • 1 0
 @elrad: TRW Active, Sunrace, Rohloff
  • 1 0
 FSA
  • 32 1
 And the great wave of mergers and acquisitions roles on. RIP competitive capitalism. Hello end stage oligopoly.
  • 4 0
 it's been dead since... well, was it ever truly fairly competitive? The oligoploy sure is getting even less competitive tho.
  • 5 1
 Larry Fink, Blackrock, and their ESG tyranny own the economy now.
  • 35 10
 @EvoRidge: Has PB written articles about people with no reaction and the millions of lives the vaccine has saved? No? Well which one is a real story? millions of lives saved or one super unlucky dude? There’s your answer son.
  • 13 0
 Excited for the tennis/mtb crossover products.

Maybe some stylish visors.

All white kit?

AXS Wireless rackets from sram.
  • 5 0
 Bit of mtb elbow.
  • 3 0
 Slazenger bar grips?
  • 11 0
 Clay court tires
  • 3 0
 I want Stan Smiths with Stealth outsoles.

Paging adidas hq…
  • 17 0
 Orange bikes already make a racket.
  • 1 0
 @sjma: maybe they'll even wedge in a BOOST mid-sole
  • 5 0
 You cannot be serious!
  • 1 0
 All white kit?

Probably curated by Fabio Wibmer. I genuinely wonder if he'll eventually give himself am RG style monogram. He's certainly got the dress sense to try it out.
  • 9 1
 Can someone please explain what this actually means?
I'd like to hear (obviously subjective) thoughts about the consequences on : the consumer (us), the bike industry, and the world's economy (as in "this is/isn't one more sign of the global unsustainable capitalistic growth")
  • 28 0
 Meh.

A German company looks to have acquired CRCWiggle and back-door listed itself on the stock exchange (by acquiring an already listed shell company rather than listing shares in itself via an IPO which is far more costly and time consuming).

They have ambitions to expand into the US where they currently have little presence.

What does it mean for consumers? Probably not much if you were an existing CRC customer. If you're in the US it might be more competition and product availability through a new market entrant.

Then again, it'd be far easier for the to try and buy someone like Jenson, then do all the work themselves.

From an investors point of view I think it would represent a pretty poor investment.

They're buying in at the absolute peak of the market, when share markets have been booming and product in such demand businesses are running out of things to sell.

So they'd be paying top dollar for acquisitions and doubt they'll really be able to generate the returns longer term to justify the prices paid.

Roll-up growth by acquisition strategies rarely pay off meaningfully for investors, but are certainly a boon for the lawyers and bankers advising them.
  • 14 3
 For Wiggle CRC staff it likely means more cuts to service the cost of the buyout. For consumers it likely means higher prices to service the cost of the buyout. For Wiggle CRC's now former owners it means they've made a shitload of money in five years despite running CRC into the ground. Yucaipa appear to be buy stuff up to remove the competition types, long term that's unlikely to be good news for customers. I expect within the next five years either Wiggle or Crc won't exist, probably Crc since they were already partially rolled into the Wiggle brand and infrastructure.
  • 18 0
 Probably worth mentioning that Signa was founded and is owned by René Benko, an Austrian. He seems to be a real shady guy and was convicted with corruption. This november the anti corruption prosecution office of Austria also came forth with new corruption charges. There are more accusations and entanglements in scandals that are difficult to prove, though. Oh, and he owns half of the Chrysler Building.
  • 5 0
 @jzPV: that’s a big YIKES.
  • 4 1
 @Fix-the-Spade: The SPAC (Yucaipa) had $300MM of cash in trust from their IPO along with a $300MM PIPE that is invested into Signa once the merger is complete. So Signa is getting $600MM of new cash to go and invest in the business through increasing distribution, purchasing / holding more inventory, or acquire other competitors / suppliers and vertically integrate.

The existing Signa shareholders rolled 100% of their ownership stake and did not cash out at all. So this is a massive investment in the business and its growth as opposed to a cash out for existing investors. Look at the investor presentation here:

www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1815302/000119312521188239/d189486dex992.htm
  • 2 0
 @Fix-the-Spade: Nukeproof just announced huge price increases on their frames, wonder if this is related.
  • 3 0
 @jzPV: This! Really dubious guy and company structure but good friends with politicans from Austria and Germany from what get´s uncovered from time to time, f.ex.

www.nzz.ch/wirtschaft/benko-und-tojner-mit-visier-der-justiz-ld.1657131
  • 7 0
 @jzPV: Shady is putting it nicely!
  • 2 0
 @SlipperyWhenDry: Signa is always short on cash lately anyways and squeezes money out of his aquisitions f.ex. by making them pay very high rent for buildings his companies own. And being good friends with politicans from Germany and Austria he is good at getting subsidies for like everything.

www.handelsblatt.com/finanzen/immobilien/immobilien-benkos-geldregen-signa-holding-meldet-ueberraschend-hohen-gewinn/27036708.html
  • 1 0
 @Ktron: Richard Cunningham said in one of the podcasts “if you want to make a small fortune in the bike industry you have to start with a large one”
  • 10 0
 I’ll bet that Jenson’s phone has been ringing….
  • 1 0
 Most logical way for them to penetrate the US market
  • 1 0
 Them buying CRCwiggle makes me want to shop more at Jenson
  • 9 0
 Now we can buy stock in Sam Hill? Sign Me Up!
  • 1 0
 Invest!!
  • 8 0
 I want my tennis racket to be the same brand as my bike. I hope this deal makes it happen.
  • 1 0
 Yonex.
  • 1 0
 @bananowy: Hope Tesla starts making bikes soon!

Be safe be well,
Incognito Robin
  • 5 0
 Good. Source BMX from the UK came over to the US and lit an absolute fire under US company's asses and the entire sport of BMX is better off for it. Before that, people were just sitting pretty on their small warehouse operation that did distribution/shipping/online sales and giving basically nothing back to the sport of BMX. Building nothing.

Source is constantly moving forward and producing media content and a physical park for people to ride. Among other things.

I'd absolutely love CRC/Wiggle to have more presence here. I didn't mind the import/ship fee when I bought a Vitus from them. But overall shipping and turn around time would be great if they did a distribution warehouse either in the middle of the country or close to the west where a lot of MTB brands are (think colorado/utah/arizona/idaho etc).
  • 5 0
 Back in my day, CRC were so competitive that you could order a whole Shimano drive train, get next day delivery, and they would actually deposit money into MY account for the privilege. You youngens don't know how good you got it.
  • 1 0
 Growing up in the uk with crc was literally place your order before 2pm and it would turn up at 9am the following morning every time, even a weekend... I try explaining that to any Australians and they can't fathom anything arriving in less than a week, 2 weeks if you're outside of any major population hub, express delivery literally means nothing here, extra money for zilch
  • 8 0
 Can someone please provide some competition in the Canadian market, FFS!
  • 1 0
 Are you talking about CDN bike MFG's? And does the situation seem about the same in USA? Maybe their prices are cheaper, I haven't checked lately.
  • 4 0
 @njcbps: No, I'm talking about the fact that I could ship components here from Chain Reaction in the UK, and it was still half to 2/3rds the price of here. My lbs often advised just buying from CR or Ribble. I have no beef with Canadian bike manufacturer (Devinci), but I do protest the 15% tariff on imported bikes (as does Devinci bikes.)
  • 2 0
 TBS has good prices but I question their authenticity as I’ve heard many many cases of serial numbers scraped off and no ability to make warranty claims.

I’ve bought twice from Canada Bicycle Parts, their prices are marginally better than LBS’s but (pre pandemic) they’ve usually had items in stock vs LBS having to order. I don’t like their $300 threshold for free shipping which is why I’ve only bought from them twice.

bikecomponents.ca is more recent online retailer, they don’t show up on Google searches often. I have yet to try them mainly cause of pandemic shortages, but it seems like a decent site.
  • 3 0
 “a blank check company that allowed SSU to go public without going through the traditional IPO process”
No comprendo [jargon]
  • 1 0
 @k-n-i-x-o-n: ok thanks for that!
  • 3 0
 Chain reaction went to shit after getting in bed with wiggle so let's hope they bring back the good products for cheap that they used to have.
  • 6 0
 I have not even thought about buying from CRC in about 10 years now, they useed to be my go to and I would build my whole bikes from them, now they stock fuck all, god knows how they make 1.8 billion.
  • 1 0
 CRC is good for two things, KMC chains and Nukeproof brake pads. Anything else I buy somewhere else.
  • 1 0
 I’d like to see big bike distributor similar to Jenson USA, Wheel Wide Cycle, Competitive Cyclist in Sacramento Valley with a store front. I’ve never understood why we don’t get SoCal treatment up here. Definitely should consider Sacramento as a US headquarters/distribution hub.
  • 2 0
 CRC went downhill massively after the wiggle acquisition. Rather than drag wiggle up crc dropped down to wiggle service and I went from almost exclusively shopping at CRC to now never doing so.
  • 1 0
 "Rossner also noted that the online sports retail market is still highly fragmented and said that SSU will be further looking to consolidate and increase its stronghold."

Scary corporate statement that translates to death to the small players and healthy competition.
  • 4 1
 how about everybody stops complaining and actually gets up off the couch and take a trip to your LBS and try to support them ?? just a thought
  • 1 0
 Everyone talks down on CRC/Wiggle from its former self. As a US buyer I've only ever experienced the "new" CRC. I have bought various things from them all of which included fast shipping overseas, good value, and quality products. I don't understand the hate.

My only complaint is they do seem to run out of stock quickly. However I attribute that mainly to the supply chain issues and the fact that they are usually really affordable. Deals don't last long!
  • 1 0
 Alot of brands weren't allowed to be sold to the North American market through them anymore. They probably had at least double the products available to us here. I remember awhile back they had to stop selling all sram products to the North American market. That's when I stopped buying from them.
  • 1 0
 CRC and Wiggle are terrible websites now. All my shopping is done through Bike24, Bike discount or all tricks. You now have to pay to return an item to CRC and wait twice or three times as long to receive something you bought?
Im not alone all my riding buddies are in the same boat. III be spending my hard earned cash elsewhere.
  • 1 0
 I just made the same mistake I did last spring. I ordered from crc. I definitely had a memory lapse because the same thing happened to my order in the spring as well. I ordered shoes, lube a tire and few others this time. One month later and I still haven’t received anything from them except excuses and blame. They sent me the original order only to have it sent back to them. Then the shoes and lube were suddenly out of stock(confused). So they reissued a new order with other parts but refused to send me the shoes that were still in the shipment being sent back to them. I ordered from bike components and have the shoes already. Still no l thing from crc. Original order November 18th. Never again CRC.
  • 1 0
 Used to use CRC in the late 80’ early 90’s when it was a small shop in N.I. Same with Wiggle when it was Buttler Cycles down the road in Portsmouth, both have got worse over the last 10 years or so, really try hard to buy local but most of my local bikes shops haven’t survived, hate buying in line but in my area don’t have a real choice.

Treads are even worse than CRC/Wiggle, Leisure Lakes have been brilliant as have Merlin, just wish they were local.

Love U.K. stuff and my bikes (Starling Murmur, Pace RC295 &
Pace RC627) are mostly adorned with Hope, Hunt Wheels and Bergtech so feel like I am doing my bit ‘locally’
  • 4 0
 There is a war going on for our minds.
  • 3 0
 Well I really hope that mean's they no longer will use skytrac to ship out peoples parcels anymore.
  • 3 0
 time for pink bikers to pull a Game Stop /AMC. is everybody ready to make some $$$$
  • 1 1
 at this point its looks like amazon is the best at the end. sometimes you can save a dollar or two but at the expense of slower everything... less tracking accesibility Way lesss items. Amazon has absolutely anything at the same price. those guys do it on purpose. they dont give aF they want be just there with comp when they could have lower prices and destroy others just due to volume.
  • 3 1
 hopefully this broadens the portfolio of the products which could be sold in NA.
  • 3 0
 Does that mean that we'll find more wiggle room on pricing here in the US?
  • 1 0
 I’ll show you out
  • 3 0
 Great. More "publicly traded" companies.
  • 2 0
 Y’all just waited for the hedge funds hunting out Trek and Spesh.
They’re next I guarantee it
  • 1 0
 Thought, hey, that looks fun.. let's buy that stock... Turns out: a) no cash dividends (wwhaatt?) and the price doesn't move at all... that is a little sub par =)
  • 2 0
 Are you gonna write a ten thousand dollar check for Prestige World Wide or what dad?!
  • 1 0
 Used to buy stuff regularly on CRC. Now nothing is ever in stock and delivery takes 10+days somehow. Alltricks at the moment is a far better option if in EU.
  • 1 0
 Yeah, providing they don't evolve into the online bike trading branch of Decathlon and keep their current model.
  • 1 0
 Goes public, right before this unsustainable cycling industry inflation slows? I be careful, there’s better investments out there
  • 1 0
 It would be pretty cool if these guys came to the USA and brought over brands we can’t get here especially the Ebike category
  • 1 0
 So what they're saying is, Nukeproof isn't going to be the bang for your buck homerun it has been? (It's been veering away from that for the last couple of years now).
  • 1 1
 2013 - I built a brand new Dh bike with premium parts 80% sourced from crc.

2021- I have zero chance of getting a mega or giga until god knows when.

Get your shit together crc!
  • 3 1
 Are these people even aware they just bought themselves Sam Hill?
  • 5 2
 more consolidation ugh
  • 29 0
 In another 20 years we're all going to work for, buy food from, and live in homes owned by Disney. Or Amazon.
  • 9 1
 @TEAM-ROBOT: Isn't unregulated capitalism great?
  • 2 2
 @TEAM-ROBOT: The existing investors in Signa did not cash out at all, they rolled 100% of their equity ownership stake into this new business. The SPAC (Yucaipa) along with other private investors are investing $600MM into the company to help grow the business. This is nothing but good news for the bike industry. A well capitalized e-commerce company for bike parts will increase reach of distribution, establish economies of scale, and likely lead to decreased pricing.
  • 8 0
 @SlipperyWhenDry: So....who cashed out with that 20% drop on today's NYSE open? Since you know so much about this deal...

Also, @TEAM-ROBOT said nothing about Signa cashing out...they made a joke about corporate consolidation. What are you even replying to?

Also, Amazon won market share by slashing prices to kill competition, then raised prices while dropping quality...

I have no problem with well capitalized bike e-commerce business, I was just noting the consolidation is happening. Yes, sometimes it means better economies of scale (eg: Gazelle ebikes from Pon are a better value than smaller brands) but also means reduced consumer choices (eg: Pon killed off Khalkoff USA and Focus USA to ...focus lol... on Gazelle, Santa Cruz and Cervelo. Just pointing out that consolidation is happening and has some serious pros...and cons.
  • 7 0
 In the future, all restaurants will be Taco Bell. And we will all ride a Grim Burrito.
  • 4 0
 @SlipperyWhenDry: it’s a SPAC, it won’t be well capitalized, SPACs are purely financial engineering.
  • 1 0
 @TEAM-ROBOT: But on the weekends you can load up the gear and head to the Vails
  • 2 0
 @dontcoast: I’m about to buy the dip. Diamond hands. To the moon.
  • 3 0
 @SlipperyWhenDry: Signa is always short on cash lately anyways and squeezes money out of his aquisitions f.ex. by making them pay very high rent for buildings his companies own.

www.handelsblatt.com/finanzen/immobilien/immobilien-benkos-geldregen-signa-holding-meldet-ueberraschend-hohen-gewinn/27036708.html
  • 2 0
 @haen:
It sucks! Based on greed.
  • 1 0
 Welcome to Costco, I love you!
  • 2 0
 @Mtmw: And no one will be fat cuz of the non stop shitting
  • 3 1
 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • 1 0
 What specifically do they have to offer the US?
  • 1 1
 bikes
  • 10 0
 bangers and mash
  • 1 0
 Less expensive parts.
  • 1 0
 Nukeproof, vitus, ragley…
  • 2 1
 Proper warm beer.
  • 1 0
 @L0rdTom: downvote downvote downvote!
  • 2 0
 Emails broker.
  • 1 1
 Remember when Chain reaction cycles would let canadians buy shimano, sram, five ten and muc off.
  • 1 0
 SRAM and Shimano gave CRC a reduced wholesale cost because of VAT so high, CRC sold to us without VAT included giving them a huge advantage over N. American distributors, distributors complained to SRAM and Shimano and they complied by telling CRC to not sell to us. It was a loophole we got to enjoy for a while but has been cinched shut.
  • 1 0
 @DizzyNinja: you dont pay vat at all if you are outside the uk wholesale or otherwise
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro: that’s precisely what I’m saying. Because there is no VAT for us they were able to use their wholesale discount and sell to us super cheap. Read it again.
  • 1 0
 @DizzyNinja: wholesale discount? you mean OEM pricing surely? you aware how they get the cheap parts? i mean i have an OEM account for low volume manufacturing literally had to purchase 1000 quids worth of stuff a month the problem was OEM stuff getting supplied to manufacturers running brands and then it getting punted out the door
  • 1 0
 @DizzyNinja: Those were some good times eh.
What about five ten and muc off?
  • 1 0
 just call it wiggle reaction?
  • 1 1
 Shimano uk .
SRAM uk.
Maxxis uk
Everything uk .
Bye bye Europe …
  • 5 5
 Cool
  • 5 5
 Cool
  • 4 4
 Cool
  • 5 5
 Cool
  • 5 5
 Cool
  • 3 3
 Cool
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