New York City Fire Department Issues Warning Following Series of E-Bike & E-Scooter Lithium Ion Battery Fires

Apr 25, 2022 at 10:31
by Alicia Leggett  

It's been an unfortunate week for battery fires.

The New York City Fire Department issued a warning on its Twitter account last week following four e-bike (or e-scooter) fires in the span of just two days, BRAIN reported.

bigquotesLithium-ion batteries are used in various devices. These batteries are commonly used in cell phones, laptops, tablets, electric cars, and scooters. Lithium-ion batteries store a large amount of energy and can pose a threat if not treated properly. If using a lithium battery, follow the manufacturer's instructions for charging and storage. Always use the manufacturer's cord and power adapter made specifically for the device. If the battery overheats, discontinue use immediately. See more at fdnysmart.org.FDNY

Visiting fdnysmart.org brings us to this video.

To be clear, eMTBs were not responsible for any of the four fires. While they've all been officially classified as e-bike fires, the culpable vehicles appear to have been one e-motorbike of sorts, a scooter, and another scooter, whereas the largest one started on a shelf where several e-bike, scooter, and other micro-mobility batteries were stored.

Low-end e-bikes and other e-mobility vehicles have a much higher chance of exploding or catching fire than high-end batteries like the ones used in most eMTBs because they're more likely to have manufacturing defects.

Three of the fires took place in Manhattan, while the fourth happened in Brooklyn. The largest fire, which seems to have involved several batteries, claimed two buildings, injured seven people, and took more than 100 firefighters two hours to control, according to nydailynews.com. The tenant reportedly built and repaired electric skateboards, bikes, and scooters.

The three other fires injured a total of five people, and each seems to have resulted from a battery that exploded. It's unclear whether those batteries were charging improperly, stored improperly, or otherwise misused.

This news comes on the heels of last week's Florida bike shop fire, which was sparked by an e-bike left to charge unattended.

Find more information on lithium-ion battery safety in this BRAIN article and this e-bike battery charging guide.


182 Comments

  • 309 13
 Haven’t seen a regular bike without a battery catch fire yet….just sayin.
  • 82 0
 Back in the day they blamed magnesium bike pedals hitting rocks as the source of grass fires.
  • 30 6
 @jefe: and they would even close access to the backcountry for bikes…and yet, ebikes are still allowed on trails during camp fire ban season.
  • 19 7
 ban frying pans too while theyre at it
  • 41 1
 @Compositepro: f*ck frying pans
  • 57 1
 @Dlakusta: e-frying pans are the worst
  • 8 0
 So far, four people must have seen regular bikes burn down.
  • 23 32
flag Intense4life (Apr 25, 2022 at 12:37) (Below Threshold)
 @Compositepro: ban deep fried butter sticks as well. stupid yanks. no wonder heart disease is the leading cause of death in the US. that's why EBikes exist. so you can glide down to the deep fry guy.
  • 35 0
 @Intense4life: Where is this deep fry guy of which you speak? Asking for a friend.
  • 4 0
 @Spencermon: I thought I was gonna have regular bike fire, after riding a really old tandem down a long steep hill, only has back pedal brakes. The rear hub was smoking like crazy!
  • 3 0
 @Intense4life: based on the feedback obviously a step too far
  • 4 0
 The only way to fix this is to put an engine in
  • 2 5
 @neroleeloo: so are dirt bikes…get over it.
  • 12 2
 Not true. Oranges can catch fire if you leave them in the sun. Something about the ugly angles reflecting sunlight can fry an ant or even start a brushfire. It happens every few years when they manage to sell a bike outside the UK.
  • 1 0
 @jefe: there were actual reports of pedal strikes being blamed for forest fires. I don't remember magnesium being mentioned in those reports.
  • 2 0
 @jefe: An Austrian blamed their brake rotor a few years back. Either they needed to learn to brake better or stop lying about tossing a cigarette.
  • 1 0
 @paulskibum: now that was funny
  • 1 0
 @Dlakusta: I would recommend letting them cool down first at least, but you can leave the grease in there
  • 2 0
 Noe of these fires were actually caused by E-bikes. There's an article in Bicycle Retailer about this, they were e-scooters.
  • 1 0
 @jefe: "grass fires"... haha!
  • 155 60
 There is no difference between an ebike and an e motorbike. An ebike is a motorbike by nature
  • 27 38
flag Spencermon (Apr 25, 2022 at 10:53) (Below Threshold)
 I think there is a difference, but it's more like a brother and sister in a family tree. Similar but different. E-bikes would not survive on a motocross track or at speeds higher than 20 mph. While an E-Motorcycle can handle those things just fine. They're both Electric vehicles with 2 wheels, but still different.
  • 71 40
 @Spencermon: Ebikes are to Mountain Biking as Paddle boarding is to Surfing. They sit on the outside and snake waves from the true surfers who are actually working for the wave.
  • 29 15
 @Three6ty: exactly my thoughts. For the one looking for the easy way to do a sport
  • 12 3
 @Spencermon: Motorbike is large circle, ebike is smaller circle within motorbike circle.
  • 49 5
 Gas motor. Pedals that turn. Electric motor. Pedals that turn. Both mopeds.
  • 40 9
 @blowmyfuse: One of the funny commenters on nsmb (I wish I remembered who to give them credit) coined the term "Bropeds" for ebikes. Cause they're mopeds that are ridden by bros.
  • 7 42
flag nickfranko (Apr 25, 2022 at 11:47) (Below Threshold)
 By law you are incorrect. If it has pedals that connect to the wheel allowing the human to output power, it is fundamentally different from a vehicle that is only driven by an electric motor. Technically the human body could be considered a generator and a motor, combining the aspects of the battery and motor by converting glucose to ATP to drive actin and myosin contractile reactions.
  • 11 2
 @nickfranko: I think you meant "Legally" different. They are not "fundamentally" different other than the programming and the size of the battery.
  • 13 2
 @kcy4130: Broped fits many.
  • 12 20
flag thechunderdownunder (Apr 25, 2022 at 11:56) (Below Threshold)
 @Three6ty: I mean, you can keep telling yourself that, even as e-MTB sales start to catch up(and my prediction) pass regular bike sales. The only thing stopping that from happening is rare mineral supply shortages, and RND, creating more of a disparity on price. Although I swear I saw a $14,000.00 dollar regular bike posted this week.
Not saying it’s the future everyone wants, but that’s definitely the future IMO.

I will say that there are some incredible ebikes out there as well. It’s getting to the point where I can do everything on an ebike that I would do on a regular bike. Again, not suggesting that I think they should take over, but I am definitely speculating that they will become the mainstream.
  • 8 3
 @HB208: Fundamentally, you can't pedal an Electric Motorcycle when the battery dies.
@Three6ty Yeah, that makes sense.
  • 7 2
 @Spencermon: That's a super stupid way to look at how the platform operates. Just because one takes you spinning cranks does not make them fundamentally different.
  • 17 10
 @HB208: Go pedal a Cake motorcycle, or a Zero motorcycle. Tell me how it goes. Or tell me my razor scooter is now also a bicycle because it doesn't have a motor. Each time this argument comes up we are all working off of our own definitions. I'm not saying an E-bike is the same as a regular bicycle, just that it's not the same as an electric motorcycle. Specifically for the reason I just defined.
  • 14 2
 @Spencermon: Both electric motorcycles and ebikes have batteries capable of propelling the rider forward. One takes more rider input to move, that's the only real difference. It is conceivable that you could put a throttle on an ebike and have it function as an electric motorcycle.
  • 6 0
 @Three6ty: I'd say more like pickleball is to tennis.
  • 1 0
 @rexluthor: Yeah, I guess. The fire risk seems pretty similar.
  • 17 12
 There is a MASSIVE difference. To say otherwise is completely ignorant.
You don’t have to like them but they are much closer to a regular mtb than a full blown dirt bike.
They may have slightly more impact on a trail in terms of more laps and harder braking but imonths of trail wear from and e-mtb is nothing compared to the damage inflicted by a single braap up a trail from a dirt bike.
Just this morning a diude blew up a trail that I just finished tuning up and ripped everything apart in one hit.
  • 6 1
 @Dustfarter: This thread is discussing fire risk. I understand emotorcycles have larger batteries and are more powerful. That does not make the batteries and systems that much different than an ebike.
  • 1 0
 @Three6ty: EffingA right!
  • 8 5
 BroPeds/E-bike Batteries are gonorrhea for 2 wheeled vehicles. & e-bike shops are the whorehouses from which they spread out to set crotches on fire. Beer

www.bicycleretailer.com/retail-news/2022/04/19/e-bike-battery-fire-destroys-inside-south-florida-bike-shop#.YmcLT-jMJhE
  • 2 1
 @HB208: in the case of fire risk, you're absolutely right.
Whats funny though, I recently went on an E-bike ride with some friends. I left the bike off the whole ride. I don't really like e-bikes. I much prefer regular bikes.
Edit: my friends weren't on e-bikes. only I was.
  • 9 0
 @Spencermon: Realistically, a crackdown will come the moment a hillside burns because of an ebike fire.
  • 2 0
 @HB208: probably, but will that also affect the manufactures of e-motorcycles (the high powered ones capable of 50mph(since apparently I have to define it this way because some people can't tell the difference))
I wonder if they will have a little more lobbying influence vs bicycle manufacturers?
  • 1 3
 Humans have literal biological motors and naonomotors. Does that make us motorized? By NATURE yes, in fact its the driving force of life.
  • 2 0
 @Dustfarter: I had that happen. I almost threw the Mcleod at the guy on a e-motorcycle/broped.
  • 7 2
 @thechunderdownunder: It’s definitely the future for those who can’t find the motivation to power the bike themselves. There’s nothing wrong with being a lazy cyclist but it annoys me when people won’t just admit that they’re lazy and ebikes are easier
  • 8 1
 @Chondog94: maybe different people are just looking for different experiences than you? I mean I do like ebike days sometimes, it’s more like a shuttle where I feel like I have more energy to slay the DH vs being a little more tired and lazy on the way down. I still love my regular bike, but not everyone wants to ride for fitness. You can be judgmental all you want, it won’t stop ebike sales lol.
  • 4 4
 @Chondog94: by the this logic, smashing DH with an uplift is also lazy.
  • 1 0
 According to the higher ups, even those toy "hoverboards" are classified/taxed as ebikes, simply because they have two wheels.
  • 4 2
 @HB208: Playing devil's advocate here; if the definition of continued rider input being required for the difference between eebs and e-motos, could the manual traction required to twist a throttle meet the definition of rider input?
  • 3 0
 @Dustfarter:
Totally agree. I've been building trails for 17 years in my local area and one or several dirt bike riders can and do wreck my work in 10 minutes. It takes me weeks to repair the damage.
E mtb have no more impact than unpowered mountain bikes on my trails.
  • 1 0
 @ROOTminus1: not if the bros have anything to say about it
  • 2 2
 @rstwosix: "Which class of e-mtb? 1, 2, 3, SurRon, Oset, Grizzly, OneWheel, Staysyc, KTM EX350?

Here's a video of an Alta EXR full electric moto by AJ Catanzaro. Freaking dead silent:
youtu.be/F2eIkGN1KiA?t=92

Do you know the difference between any of them?
Some dumbass used the "skiers vs snowboarders" argument yesterday with me and I said "You moron. Neither of those has a motor."

Whereever a Class 1, 2 or 3 goes...this Alta moto is eventually gonna go. You're not gonna need a shovel to fix anything soon.

Rode at Ride Kanuga last week, a privately owned pay to play bike park. I have no problems w/ e-bikes riding there (other than their inability to say "on your left" as they crash by.

A mom was zipping her e-bike up the hill & her kid was hauling butt beside her, but on a Staycyc electric moto. I doubt they asked permission from the staff. I doubt the staff cared. BUT...do you think she bothered asking? She just applied the "nobody will care cause my kid is cute" logic and went for it. Maybe the staff did draw a line. She didn't.

But that kid isn't gonna just decide to pedal as he gets older. A kid a few years older isn't gonna want to ride an bro-ped while little groms zip by him on e-motos..

I grew up in moto from day one. It all goes down the crapper from here. Saw a guy on a SurRon poaching illegally last week, which even surprised me, despite me knowing that's going to start happening.
  • 1 3
 @HB208: No of course not, i mean a fighter jet, and a plane with wings you have to flap yourself are essentially exactly the same thing too really.. You f*cktard...
  • 3 0
 @deadmeat25: Yeah, how are the same at all. Its not like both of them use lithium ion battery packs to push the rider forward on a two wheel vehicle.
  • 2 3
 @HB208: A remote control car and a Sherman tank both use internal combustion engines so they're both the same too eh..? You really are one thick mother f*cker aren't you...
  • 1 0
 A YT Decoy =/= a Alta or Stark Varg my friend. I have both. lol
  • 2 0
 @HB208: you could also switch the motor off and have it function as a bicycle.
  • 1 0
 @kevinturner12: I also said that. . . some 30 comments earlier.
  • 2 0
 @thechunderdownunder: Definitely. Before ebikes existed, fitness was a prerequisite to enter the sport. It’s kinda like bowling with the little rails up in my opinion. I love climbing, I’m sure plenty of others do not. Earning my descents is more gratifying than my desk job and people are missing out when they use a pedal assisted bike.

At the end of the day it’s all about having fun. Who cares. The more people on bikes the better, and the more rich folks on bikes the more legal trails we’ll all see.
  • 1 1
 @HB208: pretty fundamentally different. E Mtb's don't have a throttle. Massive difference. f*ck people who ride sur rons and things like those on MTB trails by the way.
  • 1 0
 @HB208: do you think that just by spinning the cranks the motor drives the wheel by itself?
  • 1 0
 @Chondog94: i don't own an e bike, but I've ridden them. For a lot of people they might just buzz up fire roads, but if you really put those things to work it's just as good of a workout. In big riding centers with great climbing trails and well planned trail networks, they do make it easier. If you don't live in an area like that and are riding old Moto trails adapted to MTB, or have to go out and build your own in a discreet place, the kind of terrain you can climb on those that is literally impossible on a normal bike is a game changer. I get a lot of the criticism about e bikes but just because it's not great for you doesn't mean it's not amazing for most locations
  • 1 0
 Funny you say that, on a site that is convinced there's a mountain of difference between a XC mtb and trail mtb, coming up with ridiculous new names like Downcountry to define things that sit between.
  • 76 17
 Ebikes and there owners remind me of dog owners.. constantly making excuses for there less than desirable traits..
  • 8 1
 Lol, perfect!
  • 11 0
 He doesn't bite, promise! Wink
  • 3 0
 As an ebike owner, I can vouch this happens almost every ebike ride.
  • 16 0
 She usually isn’t on fire like this…
  • 3 2
 *their
  • 1 1
 @Rybin: they’re
  • 1 1
 @noapathy: your not rite
  • 58 3
 I need these motorcycles to stop competing for our components.
  • 41 0
 I came for the limited fitness benefits, but stayed for the thermal runaway.
  • 43 8
 If you allow ebikes on a trail system, you have to make sure that both low end and high end batteries are safe for use. Its nearly impossible to effectively regulate and enforce which ebikes you can and cannot bring on a trail system. It is going to only take one wildfire for policies on ebikes to rapidly change in the eyes of states and the feds.
  • 60 10
 It would be so horrible if EBikes were no longer allowed on the trails…
  • 20 3
 I agree. One crash that punctures a battery pack the wrong way, and the whole jig is up for electric powered transport in nature environments.
  • 6 0
 @unrooted: I'm not advocating for them.
  • 7 1
 @HB208: I think he's saying it sarcastically? It's rather hard to tell through txt..should have included a winky face or something.
  • 2 0
 @MegalodonMatt: I know, I could also see how my comment could be read as supporting e bikes lol.
  • 2 0
 @MegalodonMatt: nope. Clear as day it was sarcasm. You got it. Be confident in that get.
  • 2 4
 Sadly, That will be only reason to contemplate this issue. Only until a massive fire were lives and property are damaged, that they will react to this capitalist rage to shift cycling into a Motorsport. Let's just hope it does not happen.
  • 2 0
 @revoltman: "Capitalist rage." You mean people not wanting their shit burnt down because of a ebike?
  • 2 0
 @HB208: If you or that region are lucky it plays out like that. I have spent more hours than I care to recall on trail advisory councils with state reps trying to convince them and other user groups that mountain bikes are not dirt bikes or off road vehicles. As they had been lumped together and blanket banned as the policy makers can’t be bothered with the small details.
  • 1 1
 These were all charging bikes indoors my guy.
  • 1 0
 @ehvahn: and some people still wear masks outside, in the full sun…
  • 31 2
 No need to wait for justice: Hellfire already awaits eMopeders here on earth!
  • 26 3
 "Low-end" ebike with a Fox 40. Wrong damper in it or what?
  • 7 0
 yeah... pro taper bars and Magura brakes too.
  • 31 0
 @LukeDeGriselles: Luckily 4 out of 5 battery fires understand the distinction between a throttle and "pedal assist"
  • 12 0
 To be fair….that was a heavily modded Sur-Ron, not a cheap bike by any means. But I’ll bet that the battery was an aftermarket high output job of questionable design?!
  • 7 0
 @bikebike69:
All the videos of Rons on fire I could find had heavily modified batteries and controllers.
And yes they are not cheap.
  • 3 0
 thats the SURRON dentist model
  • 2 0
 This is definitely a space where our unbridled consumerism is costing us. Before when consumers cheaped out on a scooter or a bike they were the only ones dealing with the pile of junk. Now they’re holding onto their low 3 figure expectations for these products and expecting the addition of an entire propulsion system to tack on a few hundred extra bucks. Predictable results abound.

What’s crazy is that electric cars indisputably demonstrate that electric propulsion is more upfront cost than gas. Yet somehow people expect e-motorcycles to be cheaper than the mature gas versions? It’s nuts. But people are buying e-toys and handing them out to children like candy.
  • 18 0
 We’ve had four unintended fires in our facility in the last 5 years, everyone has been from a poor quality battery from either RCs or hoverboards. They always fail during standard cycling at or below their published c-rate. The culprit is always production flaws. You couldn’t pay me enough to allow one of those batteries to be charged in my house or garage.
  • 3 2
 The first thing I do when I get a new piece of tech to play with, is check the battery assembly, and internal wiring termination. We’ve even had cordless power tool batteries (from one of the big M brands) catch fire at work whilst stored.

There are very few pieces of battery powered equipment I let reside in my home.
  • 18 0
 Where a battery fire is dangerous in NYC, out on our trails here in the west... It could be absolutely catastrophic.
  • 18 0
 coming soon to a national forest near you
  • 12 0
 An e-scooter fire destroyed a more than 400 year old house in my hometown. It survived two world wars (which is rare around here), burned for more than 24 hours and firefighting foam got into the drinking water which made the tap water unusable for a week.
  • 2 0
 @jzPV: It really is a tragedy that a historic landmark like that got taken down by some cheaply built, defective rubbish. Sad.
  • 15 0
 EBIKES ARE SO HOT RIGHT NOW!
  • 11 1
 Now if the NYPD would only do something about these f*ck-tards riding on the sidewalk & in bike lanes, the wrong way on one way streets at high speed all with no helmets.
  • 4 2
 Say YO! and give them a punch in the chops. I sharpen my elbows around anything electric on the sidewalks. Real bikes and skaters are fine.
  • 8 0
 As someone with an ebike (specialized kenevo) and as someone with a significant disability Multiple Sclerosis. I would hate to see even more trails closed to those of us who need them in order to enjoy the sport. That being said there needs to be some sort of regulation to prevent shitty batteries from making it on to the trails and potentially causing a massive wildfire.
  • 3 1
 Begin your ebike park advocacy group and plan for lots of fire extinguishers
  • 1 0
 Thumbs up Sammtb 17!
  • 3 2
 Most people understand that people with disabilities deserve accommodations. The people who are a problem are the entitled 50 year olds with more money than skill trying to session trails that were intentionally built to be hard to access, or in places that are already sensitive to having a lot of rider traffic.
  • 5 4
 I'm all for Handicap parking spaces at the front of places of necessity for food & household goods.

But trying to say that MS gives you access to fragile eco-systems & quiet places using a giant drill battery is just abuse of a physical limitation.
Using that form of self fulfilling thought, a quadriplegic should be able to get a self guided electric 4 wheeler and take it into Havasu Falls.
Having a physical limitation does not override the protections of ecology and natural habitat.

I ran into a guy illegally using an e-bike recently and he tried to use a typical age related injury as an excuse to break long standing laws. He could keep a bike upright and was about to descend a VERY technical trail.

It's gotten to the point of everyone wanting a pass for everything. If we have a malady, we want a placard, a battery and a spot in line ahead of others.

My grandfather would hobble into stores from 5 spaces further out in the lot, riddled with rheumatoid arthritis from suffering in Stalag 17 prison camp. He wanted someone truly & legitimately handicapped who couldn't make it in the store that extra 100 feet to have that Handicap parking spot.

I completely understand NEEDING accomodation for daily activity, but re-writing the rules of our protected forest lands accomplishes nothing except some imaginary utopian inclusivity quota.

Again..don't care if people want to ride e-bikes in ORV areas where motors are legal or private property & bike parks.

But please stop this B.S. where life on 2 wheels must be available to everyone everywhere knobby tires have ever touched down. It's Idiocracy.
  • 2 3
 And I'm not implying that @Sammtb17 is saying it should. He didn't specify where he uses it.
But we all know the rest of the world piggybacks off even the hint of the word "Disability" to get themself a free pass to use new technology.

Fat guy - "My kidney condition is a disability"
Blown ACL Guy - "My achey knee is a disability"
Fragile ego Guy - "My mental stress is a disability"
Beer Gut Guy who gets ditched on group rides - "I can't keep up with the healthy people. I have a slow metabolism disability"
Weed Smoker Guy - "I got glaucoma disability"

If you can't keep a bicycle upright for extended periods of time in the forest, maybe take a shorter ride.
  • 1 0
 In the UK after-market engine conversion kits are illegal to ride in public or in private without express permission of the landowner. Sadly its borne from vehicle excise duty laws not safety-based, because an extension of it to cover aftermarket eeb conversions would help mitigate a lot of these incidents. Better regulations in defense of consumers who experience battery fires would also encourage factory e-bikes to improve their fire safety record for people like yourself who should be the primary market, and everyone else who is affected by the threat to trail advocacy because of fire concerns.
  • 2 0
 @blowmyfuse: If I did not have an ebike I would be bound to a couch as my hobby. I agree with you that the weed smoker guy or the beer guy do not qualify as needing an ebike. I also with only one exception ride the ebike on trail systems that the climb is a fire road. For some its not about being able to keep the bike upright but its having the physical capability of going for more then a 1 mile ride before there body wont let them.

For me ive been riding mtb for 20 years now 16 of those were without MS. i only got the ebike 6 months ago so for several years i beat the hell out of my body trying to enjoy a sport that i love. and the ebike now allows me that possibility.
  • 2 0
 @blowmyfuse:
Your comments are idiocy, bigoted, privileged, smart ass bull....
I've been riding BMX and MTB since the 1980s.
I was diagnosed with cancer in 2014 and after chemo and recovery I bought an e bike to be able to ride again on my favorite trails (which I built on public land and are used by many appreciative riders). Any mtb is welcome here including e mtb and I'm so so glad to be able to shred the trails in my own way as a cancer survivor at age 73.
  • 1 2
 A note to @rstwosix:

Dear sir,
I notice you like insults. Let's cover them.
1. Idiocy. Definition - 73 year old jumping on the internet pretending his battery is better than a bigger battery stuffed inside the same frame as anything else with a battery that also has bicycle components attached to it
2. Bigoted: - Definition - A 73 yr old on the internet telling people on bicycles about his grossly underpowered quasi-motorcycle experiences being somehow acceptable to actual cyclists because he has street cred from digging for "insert impressive number of years here"
3. Smart Ass Bull - Definition - A 73 yr old insulting an actual cyclist by name calling when that cyclist points all the BS excuses that the 73 yr old uses to justify his actions, using one simple justification of "used by many appreciative riders", which is a term that could also be used to describe...a motorcycle, a motorcycle powered by a drill battery, a half-breed motorcycle/moped/broped, a vibrator, a sex doll, a shot of heroine, crack cocaine, a jet boat....

Cancer is very real. It is a health issue. It is not a free pass to do what you want to do with whatever tool you can. There are people born with horrible birth defects, people who've had MS their entire lives, friend who have had their legs and arms blown off and countless other things we would all wish were not a part of daily life.

But not a one gives you a free pass to disobey rules, justify your presence because of some new technology in places intended to peaceful or quiet or scenic.

Cyclists, e-bikers, motos...we're all the kings of narcissism. Pics of people on two wheels or scenic overlooks taking pics of their freaking BIKES!!???? What in the actual hell?

Nobody ever wanted to walk out in the forest to smell the earth, see the sky, hear the animals, listen to the rush of the stream and howl of the wind....with a freaking bike posed on the rocks of the waterfall or a drill battery roaring up past them over the sound of the birds.


If your trails allow motorcycles, ride your e-bike. If they don't, you're just being a dick to the quiet majority who don't want conflict. Because the vast majority of people aren't like me and ripping DH laps at the bike park. They're in nature trying to forget about the troubles of the world. Screw e-bikes.

They are mopeds. Ride it where motos ride. But you won't. Because you're ashamed.
  • 2 0
 @blowmyfuse:
Your reply reaks of fanaticism. You need to chill out. To compare emtb with moto is just silly. In my experience as a trail builder and rider emtb has no more impact than conventional mountain bikes. Moto riders on the other hand can wreck a trail in a matter of minutes. Yes, braaaap moto does not belong on mtb trails.
We mtb & emtb riders enjoy being out in bush enjoying nature as much as you say you do. Maybe your trails are way more crowded than ours and that explains your anxst.
Anyways we're having fun riding here. All the best to you and don't take it all too seriously. Cheers.
  • 2 1
 @rstwosix: Fanaticism? You really like to try to put people in extremely derogatory boxes old man.

You tell me where I need to draw the line with e-bike access. Which level of bike in this list is your stopping point? And I'm being serious. And when you tell me which one is your stopping point, prove how you're going stop 'em.
Mountain bike
Specialized E-bike - Class 1
Trek E-bike - Class 2
Norco E-bike - Class 3
OneWheel - E-skateboard
SurRon E-bike (with pedal kit installed)
Staycyc 20" for the little kid following mommy up the trail
Oset e-moto trials bike for juniors
Cake E-Bike (or is it e-moto)
Bowhead 3 wheel E-bike/go-cart/3 wheeler
Ariel Rider Grizzly e-bike
Alta E-bike for Supercross
KTM SX-E 5
Segway X-160 E-dirt bike

Go ahead genius. Go down that list and you just go ahead and start picking out ones you put on the "Can ride my trails" and the others on a "Can't ride my trails".

When you do that, tell me what you can do to enforce it. Oh...I'll give you your answer.

NOTHING. You can't hear any of them or catch them or enforce...ANYTHING!
I'ts the Wild West now. Technology has shit the bed .
  • 1 0
 @rstwosix: Oh..and I left out the Kuberg Ranger.

www.instagram.com/p/CdCTnlBuOcS
  • 1 1
 @blowmyfuse:
Ooh, ooh! Pick me, I got this...
As @rstwosix is from Aus, this is easy:

Yes, ofc.
Yes.
No, not pedal assist. Unless you are a wheelchair user and it is registered as a mobility aid.
No, not pedal assist and exceeds speeds.
No, but why?
No; no pedals
Oooh, thats a thinker, but probably no.
No, literally says moto in the name, also no pedals.
Ew, no. Didn't realise Picasso was on on the mood-board.
Yes, but only if the rider is a medically sanctioned wheelchair user.
No, has pedals, but is overpowered for existing UK, Au, and NZ laws. Also you'd look like a complete berk.
No. Again, no pedals and literally has supercross in the name.
No. E-moto
No. E-dirtbike (no pedals)
And finally:
Hahahaaa, no. Its like a dirt bike went lame below the swing arm and now drags itself along like a dog in one of those butt-trolleys.

Do I get a gold star or a cookie?
  • 2 0
 @blowmyfuse: As is so often the case, the tech hasn't shit the bed, the failure mostly comes from inconsistencies in classification and regulation. EU is pretty hot on it, and UK, Aus and NZ have taken similar sensible approaches. I can't comment on the rest of the world without further research, but typically it's the US leading the way in bed-shitting.
  • 1 0
 @ROOTminus1: Ill give you a cookie, in fact ill give you as many as you want. you hit the nail on the head with that
  • 2 1
 @ROOTminus1: So you're saying there's no issue with enforcement where you live. OK. So on your trails, a kid shows up on a Staycyc, what's the procedure?

Old man goes past you on a SurRon. What happens?
  • 1 1
 @Sammtb17: You literally know nothing of the rest of the world's predicament in this matter. You're only getting moist in your no no zone b/c it suits your narrative. Big Grin
  • 1 0
 @blowmyfuse: What does that mean? You clearly just don't want anyone to ride what are apparently "your trails. Seems like you are just sad that you don't have an e-bike and therefore no one should be able to have one. I'm not sure what my "narrative" would be other then getting as many people riding a bike as possible. Most of what you listed above are not bikes but motos. I'm sorry that you cant comprehend the difference between the two.
  • 2 1
 @Sammtb17: My narrative?

It's simple. There is one black and white line for the majority of multi-use trails & places that are wild & scenic or national forests & that's a device that aids in propulsion.

I realize the UK long ago killed off/hunted out their native species of plants and animals and every forest has been replaced with tree farms (an exaggerated statement by me based on never once seeing a riding spot there that wasn't in a tree farm).

But here, we're actually attempting to preserve the natural experience, protect endangered species, limit damage to our heavily abused forests and genuinely make getting out in the woods a relaxing experience for hikers, dog walkers, runners, mountain bikers & equestrians.

Every trailhead is overrun with people of all walks of life here, prior to e-bike invention (which isn't an invention...it's just a moped that runs on electricity, not gas).
Long ago, our forest services had to enact No Motorized Vehicles rules in the vast majority of access areas because of the destruction we did with motos (and I was one of them as a kid/teen).

There is no way to police an electric driven motor vehicle or moped. Where one moped goes, any and everything else electric powered will follow.
  • 1 0
 @blowmyfuse: honestly you probably did more damage as a kid teen riding a moto then i have ever cause on any trail system ive ever ridden my e bike on.
  • 1 0
 @Sammtb17: as long as you can see your actions as "less" harmful or intrusive than another person, you should use that as justification to do whatever you're doing again and again.
  • 1 0
 @Sammtb17:
Go for it Sammtb - I've tried to reason with him re the major difference between moto and emtb and how emtb riders including myself have no more impact than conventional mtb on the trails I build and maintain.
Good luck.
  • 1 0
 @rstwosix: Honestly, its not worth the effort to try and make him understand the difference. Some people will never allow themselves to be open to other ideas and concepts.
  • 1 0
 @rstwosix: 3-4 times as many laps as a mountain bike. Pulling up a 2nd person via a toe rope, doubling that number of laps on laps.

And you're 100% full of shit to say they don't any more impact. Math is a very simple principle. If you double something, it isn't equal or less unless that number is ZERO. If you triple impact, it's not equal to ZERO. If you quadruple something, that additional impact is not ZERO.

But good luck with your mythical argument that pretends your motor equals ZERO
  • 1 0
 @blowmyfuse:
Whatever.
  • 1 0
 @blowmyfuse:
Whatever.
  • 9 2
 The pictured Sur-Ron has all kinds of Luna Cycles hop up parts (mostly just skid plates and other aluminum brackets) but is not produced by Luna. Luna is a Sur-Ron dealer.

The battery packs are primarily Panasonic cells, but who knows what kind of modifications were made to the charger/controllers.

The sooner we can get away from lithium ion battery packs the better off we'll be in our all-electric future.
  • 11 6
 Yeah, who knows. That's why we should be cautious about letting ebikes into national forests that are ready to burn.
  • 10 0
 Sur Gone
  • 7 0
 Ah, nice to see at least one @#$*%* Sur Ron burned into oblivion. Fingers crossed for the rest.
  • 4 0
 After working on Several of Luna's Ebikes, I can with without a doubt that they are the worst bike company in the "Fly by night" category. They specced 5 speed Sturmey Archer hubs made for light duty fatbikes and their full sus "Apollo" has battery shortouts while going through light chatter. Time to ban Luna Cycles from USA sales before they set bad legal precedents and spoil the experience for everyone else.
  • 8 1
 shouldn't the ebike filter block this?
  • 1 0
 exactly
  • 6 2
 Go get them Fire Marshall !! Get those lazy guys who don't want to pedal back on their couch.

E-Bike = Motor bike = pollution!

Mountain Bike = HUMAN Power baby ! = Less pollution
  • 3 0
 This is going to become more common as the Utopists try to convert everything to electric. Batteries burn at the same temperature as a tig welder, gasoline does not. It's a pipe dream with its own set of problems.
  • 1 0
 Bankers are laughing.
  • 1 0
 Tesla fires are spectacular, not in good way. More e-cars more fires….
  • 2 0
 Is the battery tech not very similar to what's used in power wheelchairs and such? I wonder why we dont see the fire hazard with them. There has to a millions of rascals rolling around and i've never heard about one of them catching fire.
  • 1 0
 When a Rascal burns, a loved one cashes the life insurance check & goes to the reading of the will
  • 1 0
 I would bet they use more like a car battery (lead acid?) than lithium ion.
  • 2 0
 The odds of a e-bike burning down a trail system is the same as a Disc Golfer's used blunt hitting the ground.

Side note: When did the PB comment section get boosted? It went from 15-30 comments back to 2010 Crankworks level 100+ for the last week.
  • 1 0
 Yep mongoose85. You are so right.
  • 2 0
 Next up: Ejumps. No need to learn how to jump. Through the use of a magnetic field that communicates with your ebike, the ejump will pick you and your bike from the jump lip and safely drop you on the landing at the required speed. The options are endless…ecorners, eberms, erockgardens…
No need to learn all those time consuming bike skills, just start shredding straight out of the box…
  • 1 0
 Pretty sure Segway came out with a skinny 4 wheeler that did most all of this. Could put it on 2 wheels and it control the tip, manual itself, etc. All I can find are videos of the big fat tired ones though. This thing was nuts.
  • 1 0
 I’m amazed by the simple precautions that are missed to ensure safe use, maintenance, and operation of lithium (particularly lithium polymer) battery packs. It’s really sad for the people not connected to the operations that are impacted by them.
  • 3 2
 This is definitely a space where our unbridled consumerism is costing us. Before when consumers cheaped out on a scooter or a bike they were the only ones dealing with the pile of junk. Now they’re holding onto their low 3 figure expectations for these products and expecting the addition of an entire propulsion system to tack on a few hundred extra bucks. Predictable results abound.

What’s crazy is that electric cars indisputably demonstrate that electric propulsion is more upfront cost than gas. Yet somehow people expect e-motorcycles to be cheaper than the mature gas versions? It’s nuts. But people are buying e-toys and handing them out to children like candy.
  • 1 0
 @alicialeggett you made a similar statement last week about low-end vs high-end products and likelihood of battery failure. Can you elaborate on this? It makes sense logically that more expensive products have higher mfg tolerances, but how wide is the range when it comes to e-bike batteries? Are low end batteries just those that don't hit quality yield targets for the high end bikes, or are they coming from completely different supply chains?
  • 1 0
 Idealy, Lipo batteries should be kept in a fireproof case at all times. If the battery cannot be removed from the bike, then ideally the entire ebike must be charged and stored in a fireproof box or bag. There is a reason they do not allow ebike batteries on airplanes.
  • 1 0
 These motor bikes are good for commuting. I don't want to see or hear motor bikes on trails . Can you modify E bikes , motor bikes ? Yes you can . More power ? Who doesn't want more power . So buy that aftermarket battery to boost your performance. And maybe burn your house down .
My meat powered legs may feel the burn ,from actual effort. But my bike and legs are not going to catch on fire .
  • 1 0
 So I buy an ebike for £5000, aint leaving it in no shed in the back garden to risk easily getting nicked,
so wanna bring it in the house, but the house hold insurance might prove a grey area in terms of fire
risk, so can I remove the battery redily easily and store it outside in some fire proof container away from the house ?

plus, should a thief nick the ebike in burgling the house, then they gotta do some pushing.
  • 3 0
 It's just as hard to run away from an ebike fire up a hill than ride a regular bike.
  • 1 0
 Maybe ebikes should require metal frames to house battery with a built in fire suppression system for battery system. This system could be feed by water bottle or camel pack once a plug is removed on battery.
  • 1 0
 Something tiny like a laptop battery has a fire fighting procedure of being completely submerged in at least 2 liters of water and contained in a special fire proof bag. That's the problem with Lithium batteries, especially HUGE ones like this, they just burn too hot and long to put out. Something miniscule like a cell phone battery could maybe be controlled with something the size of a water bottle, if it wasn't plastic...
  • 1 1
 that piece of crap in the pic, is no e-bike...its an electric moto that uses cheap azz chinese power sports lithium batteries (standard motorcycle battery size) available on ebay/auto parts suppliers for $150.. They are well known for exploding and catching fire....Had one in a jet ski that almost burned down the house...Junk
  • 2 0
 www.pinkbike.com/video/117021

Mark Weirs House fire result of RC car batteries...
  • 4 1
 That Bike looks highly modified with aftermarket electronics.
  • 4 0
 Burn the Suron’s!
  • 3 0
 Waste of a 40
  • 4 2
 One more reason eBikes SUCK.
  • 2 0
 Let me show ya something!!!
m.youtube.com/watch?v=3YVrvlg2JuM
  • 2 0
 @VtVolk:
Lmao, I was going there but wanted to make sure it wasn’t a repeat. Fire Marshall Burns is always the authority in times like these. LEMMMMMMMEEEEEEE SHOWYOU SUMMMTIN
  • 2 1
 So I guess we should all stop taking a cell phones with us when MTBing as the phone Lithium battery could cause a fire:/
  • 3 0
 Oh NO !!!....Anyway...
  • 1 1
 The problem is in the battery control circuitry that doesn’t shut down after the battery is charged. A mechanical circuit timer solves this.
  • 2 0
 Looks lit
  • 1 0
 (Tom Hardy Mad Max “That’s bait” gif)
  • 1 0
 I live for e-bike threads
  • 1 0
 that's one way to stay in the hot seat.
  • 1 0
 How long till they start a forest fire
  • 1 0
 Oh no...So anyways back to bicycles.
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