PNW Components Removing Products From Amazon to Prioritize Retailers

 Yeah, great decision and PNW seem like an amazing company with great customer service. One of my favourite companies these days. Just tough when they charge $25 to ship a pair of grips - making them into $60 grips, but I found them on Amazon for free shipping. None of the local dealers stocked them. But I can't pretend to understand how Amazon charges so little for shipping, when Canada Post charges me $30 to ship literally anything (bastards).

 @bishopsmike: It's because commerce is a tiny, tiny sliver of Amazon's business. They make their money in other places, primarily web hosting, so their actual ecommerce avenue can lose money while the company as a whole still rakes in record profits. Turns out operating an ecommerce platform that can afford to lose money is a great competitive advantage and Amazon uses that to smother the competition.

 @bishopsmike: Greater sales allow for smaller margins

 @bishopsmike: Yeah- it's a tough pill to swallow to order anything from the States right now also...I find the cost of customs/duty has been ridiculous. I ordered a $300 Camp Quilt recently from the States and was dinged $180 for customs/duty on it on top of the shipping cost. However, I think going through my shop on PNW orders makes way more sense this way and I hope it draws more business into good LBS's.

 As long as quality parts are available at my local shop, this includes non bike items, I will shop local. I have worked retail and have notice most items on the shelves of stores are low quality. Example: Hardware store (H. Depot, or lols), they don't have quality screw drivers, wrenches, pliers, or other tools. If I want to buy good quality (pay once, keep for life), I will have to shop online.

PNW's move to have their items in stores is a great move to get someone like me to go into a shop.

 @bishopsmike: Amazon pays for shipping like everyone else. They just charge for it by rigging the market. mattstoller.substack.com/p/amazon-primes-free-shipping-promise

 @CapitalNathan: this is incorrect. I work for an e-commerce platform that connects 3P and vendor central customers into marketplaces like Amazon. The 3P sellers, selling their items on Amazon, are taking the hit on profits to have their items fulfilled by Amazon. FBA fulfillment is quite a hefty cost for sellers, who end up getting the shipping costs to dig into their margins

 nm, repost

 @bishopsmike: As someone who owns a manufacturing company that has dealt with Amazon, their system is actually incredible in its simplicity through complexity. They can offer free shipping on everything because of a few things. I will list them from least cool to most cool to downright terrifying. Also, I dislike Amazon because of how it is crushing smaller businesses but that doesn't take away from the brilliance of the system.

1. They're huge. Like really really huge and with huge comes discounts on shipping with 3rd party carriers.
2. They're really big, monumentally big. Big enough that they can afford to take losses on nearly a third of their sales because they know doing that means people will keep coming back buying things that actually make them money.
3. They aren't shipping your part from across the world normally. They're shipping it from a nearby distribution center. They look at population demographics and stockpile things in warehouses that make the most sense. For example, no reason to have a bunch of slip-and-slides stocked in the Calgary warehouse mid-December, just like there is probably no reason to keep a bunch of toboggans in stock in Florida.
4. They have a relatively small air fleet. They rely on ground transportation by train and truck as well as ships to fill those warehouses rather than last-minute air transport. They can do this because of point number 3.
5. This is where it gets creepy but fascinating. They know when you're going to buy something before you do. If you have been researching some obscure thing they don't stock in your local distribution center, they know because they are tied into Google, Microsoft, Facebook and their own activity tracking services. They may not know YOU specifically are looking for it, but they know someone in your vicinity is. So, rather than waiting for you to actually place the order, they start the process of shipping it to your local distribution center using cheaper bulk shipping before you even place the order. They are gambling (usually successfully) that you will eventually pull the trigger when you see it is "free one day prime" next time you check on Amazon. Even if you don't they can use cheap bulk transport to start that item moving to wherever the next person interested in it is. The risk for them is low, the reward is high.

 @CapitalNathan: this is just wildly inaccurate. E-commerce is the core of Amazon's business accounting for over 50% of their revenue. Third party seller services make up another 20%. Their web services division is ~13% of their revenue.

So no, e-commerce is not a "tiny, tiny sliver of Amazon's business," it _is_ Amazon's business.

 @Ryanrobinson1984: The 15% cut Amazon takes is pretty insignificant compared to the 60% margins Walmart and other big box retailers demand.

 @bishopsmike: I just placed an order direct from PNW yesterday and it said that they will be covering all customs and duty. Not sure if there is a minimum order cost for that though (mine was just over $100). I had seen their stuff on Amazon when I had a gift card but was hesitant about duty since there was no mention of it.

 @agmin: no, AWS (amazon web services) accounts for a majority of their profits (not revenue, profits). That has slowly changed as they bring more amazon branded trash into their store, but its still not their profit driver.

 There are things that I wont buy unless its from Amazon (specifically helmets and pads), because of the high chance of needing to return because of a bad fit. Not really an issue with components like what PNW sells but I've purchased directly from manufacturers before and got screwed because their sizing charts are terrible and their customer support is just as bad.

It really sucks that they wont pass on the savings they get from bulk shipping deals to the customers and offer prepaid shipping labels, it would cost them a fraction of what it costs us and make buying from them much less risky. I would probably never use Amazon if more companies ditched the Prime tax and used those extra margins for prepaid returns.

 @djyosh: yeah, PNW seems to have made things more attractive since Christmas when I had been looking.

 @crabonfever: that was an interesting read - cheers for the link

 @singleandluvinit: wouldn't buying those things from an LBS remove all chance of returns due to poor fit? Maybe there isn't a shop near you - I'm lucky to have five in a 30 minute radius.

 @cueTIP: they also make a lot of money by trading information and data they gather from customers.

 @bishopsmike: It's a lot cheaper to ship when you are amazon and you negotiate contracts with shipping companies and do a lot of last mile work yourself.

What are you going to do as a shipping company, tell amazon to f off? Realistically we probably all pay more in shipping to subsidize the price that amazon pays for it.

 That is not true Amazon generate a huge amount of profit from its marketplace and internal distribution. Yes Amazon does make money off AWS, but it’s primarily revenue stream is eCommerce@CapitalNathan:

 @agmin: revenue and profit are not the same thing. One is more important than the other....

 @bishopsmike: Amazon takes a big hit on the shipping to sell more products. Amazon Web Service is what makes Amazon all their money, not selling things with free shipping.

 @CapitalNathan: incorrect. They get a massive discounted shipping rate. They negotiate this and applies to them since they move volumes. All large companies have way batter rates than us. I know cause I work for a very large company and ship stuff through them and verify the price they pay is much much less than what we pay.

 There are 338 million people in the US, 213 million of us are over the age of 18.
There are 150 million Amazon Prime members in the US or 70% of the adult US population.
So assuming we represent the US buying demographic, and based on everybody's nice bikes I will conclude we are 70+ or more.
So what I'm getting at is that 70% of you bitching about Amazon are completely full of shit and are hypocrites and probably have bought something from them this week alone.

 @Three6ty: I most certainly did and I expect the shipment very quickly! I don’t judge myself though. Only others.

 @Ryanrobinson1984: Haha Love it...

 I’d rather shop at my local bike shop than Amazon.
To bad my states governor thinks shopping at a local bike shop is too risky, but going to shopping at Home Depot, Costco, Kroger, or other corporations that can spend lobbying dollars is totally safe.

 @wda1wustl: 100%

 @wda1wustl: lol costco is busy as hell and the bike shop is empty

 @wda1wustl: what are you actually talking about? i'm in pdx & have been able to go to my shop literally this entire pandemic

 @tpg512: I have been to my LBS and stood in line for over 30min to buy a single part, never being able to go inside the shop, standing in the rain. Compared to walking into Home Depot without concern, touching everything, and seeing dogs and customers inside without masks. It’s not the rules, it’s the hypocrisy.

 !!

 @wda1wustl: corruption at its finest

 @mior: That is not logic, that's not thinking it through.

 @wda1wustl: @mior: If you send the money you have to barter for goods and services to Amazon, you are sending all of the bartering power your friends, neighbors, utility workers, school teachers, grocers, gas stations, restaurants, bars, bike shops, trail organizations, trail builders, volunteers, resounce management, ice cream stores, hardware stores, painters, plumbers, electricians, bakers, cooks, cleaners, automotive services, bankers, insurance agents, medical staff, nurses, garbage man.....all of them receive less money to barter for your services or stay in business long enough to provide you basic services you will eventually need.

Amazon is literally leaching prosperity from your local community and feeding itself only. For every bike part you buy online, toilet paper...you name it, that you send a $1 of your money to Amazon, you're siphoning off your own ability to get the things you need locally because you're not giving money to someone who can provide something you need later.

Ask yourself what Amazon will do at a later point to barter with you. They need NOTHING from you. You can only give them money for consumables. At no point in the future will they come to your aid.

Do you know about the very, very long list of unethical, immoral and illegal things they are doing?

Also, Bezos just increased his personal wealth by BILLIONS during the last year and paid $0.00 tax on the money you sent him thanks to loopholes. Plus, you PAID TAX ON everything you bought from him.

We are literally sending our income which is fully taxed to a company that is dodging taxation of their income .

You are quite literally starving yourself every time you buy something from him.

 @IF-OBA-WILLS-IT: there is value in seeing products in person, touching fabrics, seeing real colors and not photoshopped images. Even if my LBS didn’t have any experience with the part of interest, I still want to see my options in person before buying. Having purchased bike parts online for 2 decades now, I much prefer buying in person. When manufacturers realize that pictures sell stuff, quality will degrade. I mean, look at how many look-alike products already exist, and how much they suck!

 @blowmyfuse: i hate amazon, but it is conveinient. im poor and i cant afford half of the things at the shop

 @IF-OBA-WILLS-IT: Amazon is not good for small businesses.

 @wda1wustl:

You must be in the outdoor Mecca that is Colorado … spend your whole day outside (if you drive a convertible) on the way to your favorite trail (in traffic with 3,000 of your new best friends) and park in the ditch because the lot is full. On a weekday. At 10am.

On the plus side, for reasons I can’t figure out, there’s way less road bike traffic now…

 @mior: I'm 100% certain that if you have good conversations with your shop, express your desire to work with them and buy local...they'll cut you a discount on the install and save you money if you need repair or warranty.

When saving time and money by having the shop deal with repairs, labor & warranty, you have far more time to earn income that pays for your lifestyle and your bike parts.

If Amazon is the margin of savings for you, you're overspending your budget as is and costing yourself in ways you're not paying attention.

There are times where I stop, back up, put down the tools and call the shop. And this year, more than ever, the shops in my area have had that ONE RANDOM PART I need ASAP and gotten me riding.
They've been gracious, I've gotten more work done letting them handle it and they've resolved issues using their time, knowledge and connections with the companies.

This last week...I needed my rear wheel re-built completely. I
posted online and called shops.
Windrock Bike Shop messaged me that they had my specific rims
A pro rider delivered them to me on his way home from training there
Called around and found the shop that could get it back to me in 3 days
Picked up the spokes from the shop down the road from them (since they are in short supply)
Dropped it all off.
Went on a trail ride
Got a call the next morning, 2 days early, and wheel was ready.
BLEW a spoke at days end.
Dropped the wheel off yesterday.
Picked it up that afternoon
Handled multiple insurance policies that more than covered my costs
Helped people with something they needed
Put money back with locals
One of the 3 different shops asked me to help with a coverage question.
Wrote his policy that saved him money and put money in my pocket

 @mior: One last piece of advise that has basically saved my life.
My mentor in business let me go to work for him when I was miserable being an "order taker".
He insisted I go around meeting people in other lines of work and learning about them, but not even mentioning what I do for a living.
He said to simply listen and here what they "need" in life, from a place to stay to a mechanic that is trustworthy to a place they can get their dog's shots for free. Anything.
I HATED it. Made me so "itchy" at first. But the logic he used saved my sanity and my job.

People don't care what you do until they know you care. All the work I could handle came my way from people I didn't do "business" with. It got referred over to me by people who trusted me having helped them outside work.

Do that in your life. Watch how helping others pays your way and buys your bike parts for you. Maybe go in the shop, hang out, see what the wheel builder or mechanic does in their personal time, give them a hand with anything small or put them in touch with someone who can help them.

Guarantee you'll solve your bike parts cost to income ratio.

 @blowmyfuse: let me know when you run for office. Sounds like you have your head screwed on right.

 @blowmyfuse: wow you sound like a real nice chap! Treat others like you want to be treated am I right?

 @blowmyfuse: if my bike shop has it and its only a buck or two more expensive i might get it form them. i dont have a lot of money so most things there are too expensive

 @cuban-b: Oh look everyone. My stalker is back from a month long hiatus of commenting and his first comment is on my post.

Get a life stalker.

 @blowmyfuse: backstory?

 @SterlingArcher: oh look, my other stalker. What insult or name have you thrown at PB users today?

 @blowmyfuse: arent you the guy who got banned like three times for being a tool? Also, how many essays do you have to write explaining how you’re such a nice guy? Can you write one more? We’re all super impressed

 @SterlingArcher: you need to go away. You're harassing me in every thread. It needs to stop Stalker Number 2.

 @blowmyfuse: All I said was “backstory?”

 I used to sometimes end up on Amazon looking for bike stuff, but now there's so much counterfeit/copy/cheap garbage on there I won't touch Amazon anymore.

The pandemic has actually shown me how we've had it far too good for far too long and just end up shopping at the big online retailers to get that extra few quid off. It's great that a small manufacturer is taking this stance, power to them!

 @veero: Yup, exactly. I don't order on Amazon for just about anything because so much is counterfeit.

 @HB208: and Amazon just don't care either. They're despicable.

 @veero: Amazon was usually my last resort or an option I'd use if buying a variety of items that not one online retailer all had available. After getting so much counterfeit garbage, I gave up.

Cancelled prime and quit ordering anything from them after they gave me fits for a couple returns.

 @TwoHumanPower: if I had a dime for every Amazon review that says "seems to be good quality... Have used it once..." Or similar...

Anyways what proof do you have that PNW or anyone else is buying the same product under a different name as anyone else on Amazon plus some QC checks? I'd be interested to know... I agree that there are companies re-branding stuff sure, but is that the same crap that's on Amazon?

 Well yeah, we live in Canada where everything on Amazon.ca apart from rechargeable batteries is a complete rip off.

 @woofer2609: There's all sorts of bike parts I can get on there for at least double the retail. It's amazing!

 @Bob-Agg: Some great deals on Shinamo parts though...

 @Bob-Agg: 2x retail and 30-to-45-day free shipping. Who can resist?

 Yes! It's like they saw Ali Express as a rising competitor and decided to protect themselves by turning themselves into the same thing.

 i sometimes buy form amazon if my local bike shop doesnyt have that item because its only meant for my $500 hardtail

 @mior: already drunk so early in the day?

 @hi-dr-nick: cant get drunk if ur 13. i try to buy parts from them but they're often quite expensive, but sometimes a better deal

 I cringed when my wife ordered a seatpost from there. Two 100mm seatposts showed up instead of the 300mm post she ordered lol Couldn't return it

 You can order online directly from PNW, if you don't have easy access to a brick&mortar shop

 Good point, but because Amazon doesn't really give you much guidance when you're trying to figure out exactly what product to buy (leading to returns) and because of the increasing counterfeiting issues in its marketplace, other online retailers (including PNW's own website) become a better option both for the manufacturer and the consumer.

 ... likely making better margins through traditional channels.

 Right?! This press release sends the message of 'hey look at us fixing a greedy problem we've been cashing in on for years' Way to fix-the-glitch haha

 that is fine, because that dropper seat post that is made in a chinese plant will last 1 bike ride.

 @wearitwell: and where are PNW’s made?

 Or Amazon can just go to PNW's manufacturer and buy the identical post that PNW rebrands as their own. PNW didn't engineer anything so no need for Amazon to either.

 @trollman1738: please don’t point that out, they have PNW in their name!

 @trollman1738: yeah, better yet

 @wearitwell: all dropper posts are dispossable anyway, i gave up on that years ago, i have budget approval from my wife to replace droppers every 1 or 2 years

 yeah, when the LBS doesn't have it in stock, it's 'we can order it' and somehow when they do it, it's slower and more expensive than when I do it.

 Maybe it depends on your LBS? I've always had better luck locally, for accuracy of order and speed of delivery. Plus it's often installed free. The price increase is a negligible percentage.

 The knowledge that some mechanics have is priceless, IMO

 @woofer2609: "some" is the key word here. If you are lucky enough to live somewhere with a good bike shop, support them. But some places have no local shop, or only a bad local shop. Better to order online than to go without, or to support a shop that gives bad advice.

 Or one made by some company with a strange English translation name in all caps like “GOODBUY BRAND Automatic Seat Repositioner (sold individually)”

 @sjma: They're already made by a OEM called TranzX, who also makes OneUp's posts. Bit of an odd name, but they're doing DTC business here in the US with it.

 Sorry! Full of typos! ... Pay at check iut.. . ... All the while amazon dodges paying their share...

 Bingo. Same formula here

 also they sent me a free hat and shim because they didnt have my size dropper due to an inventory discrepancy. The product also shipped quickly arrived quickly and there tutorials were great. The loam lever is a pleasure to use and that little red band on my dropper makes me faster. I like this company!

 Really? You can’t do a review in Welsh? I see a complete separate section under products that say “reviews in other languages”

 @sjma: Afraid not,
I was reviewing a local Fell runner's book and got an e-mail back saying my review was not valid, tried twice and got rejected.
Amazon are currently investigating they say but feck them.

 Can you explain more about Seattle? Always looking for more reasons to continue my Amazon boycott.

 @jfleming10: By providing thousands of high paying jobs and recruiting talent from all over the world, home prices have skyrocketed and infrastructure is taxed. That said, there are net benefits such as service industry jobs and ancillary business that serve the mothership (s) (think logistics, software, hardware, etc.). We don't have Seattle Amazon in Denver but have our share of back office companies moving here and attracting high paying jobs. Move to a depressed city like St. Louis and you'll appreciate the other side of the coin.

 They're obviously sourced from Asia like everything else, but if they're "catalogue" products - where are the other 10° sweep handlebars made of 2014 aluminum?