What Does the Vietnam Covid Shutdown Mean for Carbon Bikes?

Sep 3, 2021 at 14:15
by Alicia Leggett  
Tom Richards photo
Vietnam has become a hotbed for carbon bike production over the last few years.

Until recently, Vietnam was one of the nations that was least affected by the Covid-19 pandemic. The country had a swift, effective response to the virus and essentially wiped the virus clean from the country using social distancing, mask mandates, diligent contact tracing, and aggressive quarantine rules. Those strategies, which rely largely on public participation at the individual level, were effective until the Covid burnout combined with the Delta variant in a perfect storm that has dealt a heavy blow to a country that once had one of the world’s best Covid containment records.

The total number of cases since the start of the pandemic jumped from just a few thousand early this year to now more than 480,000, with more than 12,000 deaths so far. A new round of lockdowns, particularly in southern Vietnam, will hopefully help curb the virus spread, but will also have devastating ripple effects for the Vietnamese people as well as many industries across the globe.

This is, first of all, a human health crisis, and the foremost concern is and should be for the safety and wellbeing of the Vietnamese people. Still, we can also see that our industry is being hit quite hard and we can anticipate tough ongoing effects going forward.

Several high-end bike companies source most of their carbon bikes in Vietnam. Ibis, Rocky Mountain, Evil, Revel, Specialized, and Intense all confirmed that they rely on Vietnamese carbon, particularly from one distributor that makes carbon parts in the southern part of Vietnam, where the pandemic is hitting the hardest and where the factories have shut down. Other brands, too, source bikes from the same region, but declined to comment. The brands that only make carbon bikes, rather than a diversified line of carbon and aluminum, are the most impacted.

Behind the Numbers Ibis Ripmo V2 Thumbnail
Even laser cats won't help these carbon bikes come into existence if the people who make them cannot safely go to work.

With bike sales through the roof since the start of the pandemic, many bike brands have been ramping up their production, hiring new workers, and expanding what they do. Now that there's suddenly no revenue flow and perhaps no revenue for the foreseeable future for those brands that only work with carbon, the business side of things looks grim.

Even when Vietnam had Covid in check, the factories were working at maximum capacity to churn out carbon bikes to catch up with the 2020 spike in demand. (Never mind finding components. That’s a whole ‘nother tall task.) Now, with case numbers climbing rapidly and the country's vaccination rate still at less than 3%, the future is uncertain. A representative from one company affected said the company was essentially planning what to do without any carbon bikes arriving through the rest of the year.

Here’s what the brands had to say about this new sticking point:

Evil

Evil Wreckoning

Jason Moeschler, COO at Evil Bikes, said that he couldn’t disclose how much of Evil’s manufacturing happens in Vietnam, but said that many frames pre-booked for 2021 are delayed. Real lead times, he said, have not existed in 2021. “The honest lead time disappeared around August of 2020 when the entire globe shifted spending habits and flooded factories with unrealistic expectations,” he explained, and Evil doesn’t know when production and delivery will return to even remotely normal.

Even when the factories reopen, bike delivery times will remain uncertain for a variety of reasons that Moeschler listed:

1. Not all workers returned after the shutdowns. So there will be re-hiring and re-training.

2. The factory will likely open with government restrictions requiring more space between workers, alternating smaller shifts, etc. Though the factory will re-open, by no means will it be at 100% capacity.

3. While the factory was closed, shipments of goods into the factory were delayed and either held at origin or stored at the Vietnam port until re-opening. Re-starting the raw material delivery process takes time.

4. During the factory shutdown, some raw materials experienced their own round of delays at origin. These delays were not communicated during the shutdown and will cause a re-working of the delivery schedule.

5. Severely constrained shipping ports and the shortage of air traffic are both causing significant unquantifiable delays to every step of the supply chain.


It’s clear that brands are in a tough spot and are doing what they can to keep their companies afloat and bring bikes to the people.

bigquotesWe at Evil understand customers are looking for specific delivery dates for bikes. COVID-19 related factory closures are rough because the factories typically close for unknow amounts of time which affects our ability to quote specific ship dates to our customers. Evil’s team is burning the midnight oil, doing anything and everything possible to confirm ship dates and speed up the supply chain wherever possible.Jason Moeschler, COO at Evil

Revel

Revel Ranger review Margus Riga photo

bigquotesAs painful as it is for getting our customers bikes in a timely fashion, we support everything that our manufacturing partners are doing to stay safe and healthy. Covid has made things incredibly challenging for us here in the USA and everywhere in the world, but things are especially bad in Vietnam and China right now, and they do not have the same access to effective vaccines that we do. We will respect our partner’s decisions to keep their workers safe so that next year and the following years we can all work to improve supply as covid hopefully dissipates.Revel Bikes

Rocky Mountain

Rocky Mountain Instinct review

Rocky Mountain is upfront about that a fair amount of its manufacturing happens in Vietnam, described as a hotbed for carbon manufacturing right now. Since the shutdown has been extended a handful of times now since it began in July, each time for two weeks, it's nearly impossible for the brand to predict when the bikes will start coming in again.

Chief Product Officer Alex Cogger said Rocky is in the midst of planning 2023 bikes and things were looking okay for the delivery schedules of 2022 bikes, but the shutdown has changed that. Now, Cogger said, “there’s a good chance there are going to be some delays for 2022s. The volume of that production will get pushed later into the year.”

Carbon bikes are the heart of what Rocky Mountain does, so the brand can’t afford to not sell those bikes in the long term. Still, thanks to the brand’s alloy bikes and relatively long and successful history, the brand will figure out how to make it work in the short term. “We’ve made plans for these eventualities, but it’s not going to be fun,” Cogger said. When asked about the likelihood of companies going defunct over this, he continued, “I’m stunned we haven’t heard more at this point about brands having severe financial difficulties or being acquired. I can’t believe we haven’t heard it yet. I’m sure there are a lot of backroom conversations going on right now, but I’m just surprised we haven’t heard anything yet.” Small companies are hit the hardest, he said, especially those that haven’t been in the industry long enough to understand how to plan ahead and weather the road bumps.

bigquotesHopefully we’ll all learn from this and we’ll make more robust systems so we can better manage emergencies in the future. Every day, we’re learning and learning and trying to make our work processes and our systems more bulletproof to avoid issues, but you can’t predict the unpredictable.Alex Cogger, Chief Product Officer at Rocky Mountain

Ibis


bigquotesIn July, the Vietnamese government issued a mandatory shelter-in-place order for the region around Ho Chi Mihn City to help combat a rise in Covid-19 cases. This included the factory run by our manufacturing partner, and affects not only Ibis but several of the highest quality carbon fiber bicycle brands on the market.

The factory is complying with the order and has temporarily shut down. They are committed to protecting the health of their employees and have been following all safety guidelines to operate safely. As of our latest update, they had not experienced any positive Covid cases. They will reopen as soon as it is determined by their government that there has been a sufficient reduction in the spread of the virus.

Fortunately, we have a number of carbon frame shipments in transit and we will continue to ship those. We are also working with our factory to help them implement rapid testing procedures for when they reopen. Our supply of AF (aluminum frames) and Hakka gravel frames remains uninterrupted, and we are scaling production of the Exie, which is made in our US Facility.
Tom Morgan, Ibis President (and sometimes Janitor)

Specialized

specialized enduro 2020

bigquotesWe have manufacturing & assembly partners in many countries around the world. While the pandemic has affected us all, it’s getting particularly worse in Southeast Asia right now. We are doing what we can to support our partners in supporting their efforts to get their teammates vaccinated, complying with government rules, and helping to keep our teammates safe.

For sure, it has made getting our bikes to riders globally an additional challenge but it’s important that we take care of our teammates first. Lead times have increased to hundreds and hundreds of days on some parts while the global network of shipping is also tough right now. As you know, a mountain bike isn’t a mountain bike until you have all the parts on there… even in tough times, our riders deserve a complete, quality bike so things that were easy a couple years ago are not so easy now. This compounds when we are, for example, waiting on stems or handlebars but the rest of the bike is ready; now we have to wait to ship the whole bike which takes up space with our partners’ factories.

All this to say we are working day and night to get riders the bikes they need right now and we appreciate people working patiently with their retailer to place their order. We are providing as much visibility as we can into delivery; it’s completely understandable that the state of delivery is frustrating for our retailers and riders that are waiting for these bikes which is why we are working so hard to overcome the many obstacles in front of us. We would ask and encourage us all to remember that we are all in this together.

We are in the golden age of cycling and the future is bright, we are stoked and making large investments to ensure more bikes in the future for riders all over the globe. Smiles on faces and wind in your hair is our goal, well get there.
Specialized



All of this adds another layer to an already complicated picture. Even if every part needed to make a bike is technically available, brands run into problems when, say, one brand’s frames are available, another brand is able to source rims, another has handlebars, and another has all the stems. What happens then? Even if a company has 99% of its bike parts in stock, it still can’t sell complete bikes. And if there are no frames coming in, the brand can’t sell frames alone either. It's bad all around.

We hope for the workers’ sake that the pandemic slows down soon. Then, once folks are safe and able to support their families, we can see about getting our bikes. No matter what happens, the effects of this pandemic will continue to be felt far away and close to home for a long time to come. Hug your loved ones, respect your local Covid guidance, and have some patience for the bike delays.


427 Comments

  • 384 0
 This means hold on to that bike you already have.
  • 275 30
 Good news for the planet.
  • 294 7
 But how will I create and broadcast an identity to myself and others without consumerism?
  • 9 7
 @TEAM-ROBOT: You really don’t want to sell bikes, don’t you? : )
  • 20 49
flag rideordont (Sep 7, 2021 at 13:38) (Below Threshold)
 I remember when @TEAM-ROBOT was cool
  • 14 2
 @TEAM-ROBOT: What happened to your vitalmtb blog? Was the only reason I ever went to that site.
  • 51 0
 And sell your spares! I had several road bikes that were old enough that it simply wasn't worth the effort to sell in the before-times. Not to mention the hardtail that I originally got for winter riding, but realistically never used as often as I thought I would. And the backup full-sus that had some cosmetic issues that really hurt its value when there was ample inventory. But last fall the guy who bought it was thrilled to find it despite a few scrapes and bruises. I've unloaded a half dozen spare bikes in the last year. Getting some spending cash, clearing up space in the garage, and helping bring supply to the market.
  • 24 1
 @cogsci: Glad you've been enjoying the Advice column! Love working with those guys, I've just been hella mega busy lately. All my fault, not theirs.
  • 5 2
 @igxqrrl: t4fhe y4ggf6 gee ..,...,.,.,a.. g
  • 6 0
 @TEAM-ROBOT:
Glad to hear it hasn't ended and might come back, your schedule pending. The bicycle internet doesn't feel right with out you.
  • 6 24
flag DonD49 (Sep 7, 2021 at 15:24) (Below Threshold)
 LOL, nabbed a 2021 Epic Evo last fall and lucked into a 2021 Diverge Carbon Comp a few months ago. Love both bikes and can't imagine what new products could show up that would make me want to replace either one. Grabbed a pair of Hunt wheels for the Diverge so I can use it for both gravel and road riding. I'm covered! At least until something breaks that I can't get parts for....
  • 4 0
 Six years and counting!
  • 5 2
 @igxqrrl: good on you but it makes me wanna hoard my bikes. I feel like overall the world is at a peak on the productivity and innovation cycle. I expect more and more shortages.
  • 3 33
flag scott-townes (Sep 7, 2021 at 17:24) (Below Threshold)
 2020 Kona Process 153 27.5 carbon for sale. $5,000 USD. Hit me up!
  • 14 4
 @scott-townes: meh kona carbon is for lemmings
  • 5 0
 But what if I make up for my generalized feelings of inadequacy by purchasing superior bicycle products?
  • 5 0
 Exactly. I am so glad I had my fleet (or had orders placed) pre-pandemic. Now I am like a maintenance engineer ordering drivetrains and brake pads in advance to make it through this shit.
  • 3 1
 @zoobab2: LOL! Great comment and true. Or maybe repent for buying carbon and go back to aluminum. Smile
  • 1 0
 @TEAM-ROBOT: I’d say you’re doing pretty well!
  • 12 0
 The bright side is hopefully more brands will start building local manufacturing infrastructure.
  • 13 46
flag ReeferSouthrland (Sep 7, 2021 at 23:10) (Below Threshold)
 The Plandemic presents false challenges but get your balls and ride regardless.
  • 15 6
 @ReeferSouthrland: there there go back to your banjo and strawsucking
  • 8 38
flag ReeferSouthrland (Sep 7, 2021 at 23:20) (Below Threshold)
 Sorry Karen , didn't know I could erupt your butthole soo easily.
  • 5 0
 2014 was my last bike purchase and struggling to find a good reason to change
  • 2 4
 @Kmccann137: OK fine, I'll let it go for $4,980.
  • 3 0
 Yep, and be thankful for what you have.
  • 7 0
 @blackthorne: Sadly, the quotes from the bike brand executives all indicate they are fine waiting it out. It’s unbelievable… the complacency. I want to hear one say… “we are taking full advantage of this… we are building local infrastructure and pipelines to bring these processes and skills closer to the consumer”.
  • 11 0
 The Fall PB buyer's guide will be "10 Best Enduro bikes of Craiglist"
  • 1 0
 @Baller7756: That's a good point.
  • 2 0
 and stock up on parts you need when you see them. That sadly makes things worse but I can't be with out my bike.
  • 4 0
 @blackthorne: hopefully many own their molds but I doubt it.
Most should be setting up shop in mexico! There are a few really good carbon houses there.
  • 1 0
 @Baller7756: read closer. Those that can are doing just that.
  • 1 0
 @Baller7756: pretty much what Ibis has been doing. They’ve been ramping up their ability for US made carbon. The Exie is the first with it across the line.
  • 1 0
 @HurricaneCycles ? Help me out… I’m missing anything of substance.
  • 1 0
 @whambat: Good for Ibis… good for that local economy.
  • 1 0
 @brajal: what is your bike? Just curious
  • 6 0
 @jrocksdh: honestly, a super smart thing for the north American industry in general. Canada U.S. and Mexico. So many people just want a solid job. Move production close by, pay a fair wage and stop shipping stuff back and forth all over the world. Makes sense to me. And the best relatively localized solution that makes sense for other places around the world.
  • 1 0
 @Baller7756: specialized hinted at it pretty strongly in this article but they are not the only ones. Several of the biggest brands are bringing updated manufacturing infrastructure to North America. What no one will say tho is that this has been on the plans for years. Covid has only expedited the process. I know for sure that Trek and Spesh are adding significantly to their US production. Sounds like Ibis is as well.

Don’t get too excited tho, these changes will probably not be noticeable to the general public for another year or two. When you talk about building a factory, lead time is at least 5 years. Haha
  • 278 20
 Once upon a time bikes were made from steel and aluminium which were commonly made by lots of factories all over the world.
Gradually a lot of bikes changed to having frames made from a magical weave that was only made in a few special places.

Then one day a vile pestilence swept the world and the special places that made the magic weave had to shut down for a bit so that all the workers didn’t die.

But this made no difference to some who complained about having to keep their old bike for a bit longer.

Mean while in the dark places and high towers the overlords rubbed their hands with glee whilst working out how much extra gold they could get away with charging customers when the magic weave became available again.
  • 214 3
 Creative writing class canceled this week over covid concerns?
  • 14 4
 @usedbikestuff: comment of the week lmao
  • 15 7
 Carbon requires more labor so it primarily gets produced in areas with lower labor cost...shocker. Should we talk about your first point as well since most alum and steel bikes are made in Asia too?
  • 30 0
 I work in a machine shop and can confirm that material and supply chain issues are not limited to composite material and manufacturers. We have had trouble getting metals (most of our work is with various forms of aluminum and steel) for the last 8-12 months.
  • 6 2
 @cypher74: your statement ain’t correct : the move to Asia had nothing to do with carbon. It’s a while all (or almost all) companies get their alu bikes made there.
  • 4 0
 Lead time on tool steel is 10+ months, so write a poem about that
  • 5 0
 World of Warcraft: The Bicycle Crusade
  • 5 1
 The people who think this was a serious commentary need to have their sense of humour checked out as it may have got a flat.
  • 1 1
 @EnduroManiac: and here was me thinking the Swiss had a sense of humour
  • 3 5
 @cypher74: I do. But I still don’t see the fun there. Even looking hard at it. Sorry. Cheers man.
  • 4 0
 @cypher74:

This valourous visitation of a bygone vexation stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition!

The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous.

That better?
  • 1 1
 @usedbikestuff: very vibrant and voluminous vocabulary visited upon a vexed proletariat.

V is a good film
  • 117 3
 And on the other hand an Aluminium bike brand wins world cups in 2021, who knew.
  • 22 11
 An aluminium bike brand that runs carbon rims
  • 1 0
 @brandaneisma: @brandaneisma: Trek DH is Alloy rims and frames......
  • 114 19
 Has nobody told them about the horse dewormer...?
  • 59 4
 I don't think the CPV allows The Joe Rogan Experience to be streamed in Vietnam
  • 7 4
 @chacou: lol. I'm glad someone got it.
  • 11 1
 Wait till you find out what Viagra was originally used for!
  • 8 0
 @thustlewhumber: my mother-in-law takes Viagra when she comes to visit us in Colorado, apparently helps improve blood flow and reduce affects of hypoxia
  • 11 0
 @chacou: just found my excuse
  • 3 0
 @thustlewhumber: Horse breeding?
  • 30 0
 @chacou: and gives her a huge boner. score!
  • 2 0
 @thustlewhumber: Pediatric blood pressure medicine, if I’m remembering correctly. Ironically, most insurance companies deny coverage to kids for that purpose while handing it out like candy to middle aged fellas (wife is a Pediatric NP, but I might be misremembering the details).
  • 4 0
 @chacou:
Sildenafil (commercialy known as Viagra) has been first used for pulmonary vascular hypertension. Its erection enhancing effect was found as a side effect during trials. Contrary to popular laic belief the Viagra won't enhance breathing or erection of a normal healthy person. Your mother in law needs pulmonary and cardiology consultation..
  • 1 3
 @thustlewhumber: he has just got covid so it will be interesting if his views change.
Also the lex fridman podcast who is a friend of Joe has been speaking about this and its very informative and interesting
  • 1 0
 @sxy-slo: oh she definitely does need to, 60 years of what my wife calls the "Pittsburgh Diet" rich in processed meats, cheeses, and bread.
  • 3 1
 So far 16 Joe Rogan fans here...
  • 79 2
 Get ready GG.
  • 1 0
 I was looking to see how long it took for someone to mention them....
  • 1 1
 @stevemokan: not long, I’m just happy that mine has already arrived.
  • 8 4
 hell yeah! stoked they do shit here, would jump on if they got rid of the headset chip BS.
  • 10 1
 @ellstruth: Last a talked with Dustin at GG my Smash frame is due on the 9th, ~48 hours...
  • 19 17
 What happen with all that made in USA B.S. from IBIS and Evil
  • 9 5
 @inonyme: It was/is just that.... B.S. Big Grin
  • 15 0
 @inonyme: Ibis is making only the Exie in the US as an experiment before they scale to other products. They just invested a lot in their new facility though.

The other one that is interesting is WeAreOne building in BC
  • 3 25
flag kmsafety (Sep 7, 2021 at 20:22) (Below Threshold)
 @salespunk: WeAreOne wheels are built in the USA! Smile
  • 7 0
 @kmsafety: incorrect
  • 3 1
 GG for carbon, or Reeb for bomber-as-hell aluminum. Great people, made in the USA and ready to roll!
  • 6 1
 @inonyme: far too many brands say “designed” in the US as if that makes it legit. Haha. Or they will call a technicality that it was assembled in the US therefor it is US “made”
  • 58 2
 Looks like the Delta hit the Delta....
  • 40 5
 Charlie don't mountain bike soldier, you either fight or you ride; Now what's it gonna be?
  • 8 1
 Ha! Get some!!, get some!! (...Carbon mountain bikes while you can, just dont lead them that much)
  • 1 2
 What a stupid comment!
  • 48 4
 GG laughs in proprietary carbon mold manufacturing technology made in the good ol USA for hundreds of dollars less than the Vietnamese competition. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise.
  • 30 7
 Devinci and We Are One laugh in made in Canada aluminum and carbon.
  • 13 3
 @ratedgg13: not that true at all with Devinci
  • 11 1
 @inonyme: If you check their website, all their aluminum frames are being made in Canada again.
  • 9 3
 I work for a company that distributes brands from all over the world. By far our worst supplier in the Covid age has been the one that manufacturs in the US as they endured the longest shutdowns and much bigger production delays than companies that manufactuered in Asia. The
  • 12 1
 while they can laugh, I believe S sells same about of bike per day as GG per year
  • 3 2
 @ratedgg13: AFAIK Kobain hardtail and Marshall full-sus in aluminium trim only. and the old Troy second generation
  • 12 4
 It's always nice to ignore reality in the comment section. First there's not a huge saving with their frames. Second, some of those saving come from shared frame across all models. Sweet, I can save a few 100 and get a heavy ass short travel frame. Third, you think GG can crank out as many frames as Trek or Specialized. Nothing against GG, just trying to steer you back from fantasy land.
  • 2 0
 @inonyme: And the "minus" snow bike... I think they (aluminum framed bikes) used to be all made in Canada but couldn't keep up with production...I had heard devinci were trying to expand more of their manufacturing capability to produce more domestically...may as well. probably a good time as demand is strong.
  • 6 0
 @ratedgg13: None of the Devinci Carbon frames are made in Canada. And only these (www.devinci.com/en/quebec) aluminum models are. Still better than nothing!

But yes, WAO does manufacturer in Canada... though that 10k entry price is a tad steep. Will be interesting to see pricing when they can get their hands on some lower spec parts and/or sell frame-only.
  • 5 6
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: why would u buy a short-travel frame? ew!
  • 2 0
 I laugh and ride a 2015 Taiwanese frame from before China crushed the island.
  • 4 0
 But who supplies the weave and resin? They’re not producing their raw materials in house!
  • 3 3
 @savagelake: Cause it's a big country, try leaving your state once in a while.
  • 4 0
 @savagelake: It's not the amount of travel; it's how you use it! Wink
  • 3 3
 I’m just over here riding my Gnarvana and laughing.
  • 2 1
 @ski-or-die: they don’t use a traditional lay-up method. Check out www.ridegg.com for the process. It’s different than traditional carbon.
  • 2 1
 @inonyme @greener1: as I said, check the website, they're now doing all their aluminum frames in Canada. It's a fairly recent update, but a huge one.
@islandforlife yeah, sorry that's what I had tried to say but got tripped up over my own words.
  • 1 1
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: funny, cuz my area is perfect for a short travel bike. and i'm not in my state.
  • 2 2
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: an ibis ripmo frame is $3500, a GG smash frame is $2195. thats more than a $1000 difference between frame sets. And who cares how many frames the big guys can pump out of asia when you cant even get them anyway? For the same wait time, I'd rather just have one made to order from GG and pocket the extra $1000 for other parts
  • 4 0
 @Daaaaaaaan: @Daaaaaaaan: The main point is that the more local your supply chain, the less chance of it being disrupted for local consumers or, if it is, the effects will tend to be less severe. Yes, if you are a customer outside of the US reliant on a US supplier, then you will likely have similar (or even worse) problems that US customers are having with say Asian manufacturers. The call for bringing in more domestic manufacturing is to create a more LOCAL supply chain, since covid is showing how easily the intl supply chain can be significantly disrupted for long periods of time.
  • 2 0
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: If you go to the GG website, there's only one model of bike out of stock. That's the main point, not whether the specific product they make matches Trek or Specialized. I've also had a lot of luck with other small domestic component brands like Revgrips. And, incidentally, if you kit up a GG bike right now, it's typically with say Cane Creek shocks/forks....Cane Creek is a US company. Coincidence?

GG is a small company, so no, their model is not realistic for Trek. But, Trek also has incredible resources such that they are in the best position to scale up or develop a model that could work for them domestically. Now, it's by no means easy but, I mean, is the current situation easier? The intl supply chain is wrecked and has been for going on 2 years. I don't know that we have the convenience of being picky right now. Tough choices have to be made.

I'm encouraged to see Ibis experimenting with the Exie in CA. However, I fear that due to the culture surrounding the bike industry, there will be a tendency to only see domestic manufacturing through the lens of building plants in the most expensive parts of the country which, in turn, makes domestic manufacturing less feasible - almost a self-fulfilling prophecy. Is, say, Arkansas sufficiently "woke" for Trek or Specialized to build a plant down there?
  • 3 1
 @Ironchefjon: First, Smash isn't full carbon yet.
So Trail Pistal Frame (full carbon) $2495 120mm My Ranger Frame $2999.
If everyone started ordering from GG how long do you think the wait times would be?
  • 1 1
 @burnermtb: Again you missed the point. It's not about product matching, it's they don't have anywhere near the volume of orders. IF everyone starting ordering GG they wouldn't be able to keep up.
  • 2 0
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: Volume is relative to the business model each business is running. GG has a small volume model. If it had a large volume model it would still have an advantage in this current Covid market. Local consumers are inherently advantaged by local supply chains relative to non-local consumers. Local consumers buying from local supply chains have to deal with far less distinct points at which supply chains can fail. For example, my family belongs to a local CSA, with both a meat and vegetable share. We were entirely unaffected by the meat supply shortage accordingly. This is an inherent advantage over non-localized supply chains.

The big names do have large volume models. But their large volume models are almost exclusively reliant on the intl supply chain, with little to no domestic production. That works in a non-covid environment and when the intl order is settled. That's not our reality right now and it is unclear when that changes and this has been going on for 2 years.
  • 1 0
 @Baileym76: yo tambien
  • 1 0
 @ratedgg13: I read this from their website "So, while we don’t make ALL of our bikes in Canada, we make MOST of them here." ... it looks they don't make the Troy alu or their D'jango alu or Trail Sport models in Canada. Is there new information you've seen on the website or elsewhere to say that they are?
  • 1 1
 @greener1: They have 28 chassis in their lineup + 4 self service. On those, 10 are built in house at Devinci and on those 10, 3 are MTB. They don't make the high end chassis, yet. Most of the ''made in Devinci'' bikes are self service bikes and s.s. Ebikes.

They made the 2016 gen Troy in house to
  • 2 0
 @greener1: @inonyme: This is the specific page on their website that lists which bikes are made in Canada (www.devinci.com/en/quebec)

Bassically its the aluminum models of the Marshall, Cobain, Wilson, Spartan, a dirt jump bike, a fat bike and a bunch of e-bikes.
  • 1 1
 @inonyme: Yep... from Feb 2021. So currently - www.devinci.com/en/quebec
  • 1 0
 @inonyme: the Wilson and Spartan aluminum frames are now Canadian made. So the only "high end" aluminum frames not yet Canadian made are Django and Troy.
  • 33 12
 It means we have essentially given up hope on getting new bikes in the near(ish) future and have also accepted that the bike industry will pass every penny of cost onto us in the form of drastically increased prices.
  • 14 2
 Care to elaborate on alternatives?
  • 24 0
 @whiteboarder: buy used.
  • 6 15
flag whiteboarder (Sep 7, 2021 at 12:19) (Below Threshold)
 @WY228: and see all brands go bancrupt…?
  • 53 3
 How dare the big evil Bike Industry...*checks notes*...refuse to sell at a loss?
  • 45 10
 @whiteboarder: if some go under then they go under. It's not my responsibility as a consumer to pay exorbitant prices just to prop up a failing business model.
  • 32 2
 Remember when you could get a nice mid level bike for $2500 just a couple years ago? Now you're looking at $3500. And those carbon frames with SX drivetrains and x fusion suspension will cost $4k-5k.
  • 38 1
 @whiteboarder: Well, why not? They chose to outsource production and drive up prices, if it leaves them vulnerable to failing supply chains, that's just business. Someone else will take their place.
  • 14 8
 @whiteboarder: Well, since they are in the business of serving us they should absorb every last dollar and bring the cost of bikes back down to pre-2019 25% china tariffs when the industry had its first major disruption.

That way we watch them all go belly up and we can usher in a new chapter of companies that really understand what it means to pay below market-rate so the consumer can have 'affordable' bikes again.

I mean, the solution is so obvious.
  • 55 12
 @WY228: Failing business model? Seriously?

I really don’t get the ignorance, short sighted and entitled stance our society increasingly seems to be taking.

Millions of people lost their jobs and life and millions will be - I can’t get my head around how the established west expects everything to just comfortably keep on going as it was before all this hit.

Not sure if you are able to grasp the reality of what is going on - raw materials, components in almost any industry are in short supply and there’s insane price hikes - especially in automotive, construction and yes, also for bikes. You got any idea how this affects long term contracts on fixed prices and what that means for a business?

Get real.
  • 21 5
 @joebmx: Never said they should absorb everything. But when PB posted the last article regarding bike sales and #s, I dug into the 10K reports of most of those holding companies looking at YOY numbers. Essentially all of them were posting huge if not record increases in both revenue and profit, even with the increase in costs. Thats due to their sales overall sales numbers skyrocketing from the previous year with the increased demand. So yeah, they have plenty of room to absorb some of these cost increases. I understand economics and supply/demand; they are a business, I get it. But stings a bit more when you see they are not only passing along all the costs but they are doing it while making unheard of profits.
  • 11 19
flag whiteboarder (Sep 7, 2021 at 12:34) (Below Threshold)
 @joebmx: Well, if it’s so obvious why don’t you open up a shop that engineers, sources material and labour, logistics and marketing *locally* and be profitable to buy a kitted out Yeti that won’t be around anymore once you realize that what you think is so easy and obvious is … a pipe dream.
  • 8 0
 @WY228: um, in my part of the woods you'll nearly pay more for, say, a knackered 2016 Stumpy than you'd fork out when it was new. And there's no parts to buy to un-knacker it.

People have been going full grinch for the last year. Ugly.
  • 8 0
 So you're upset about the fundamentals of economics?
  • 19 4
 @whiteboarder: Spare me with acting like I don't care about loss of lives/jobs. My grievance is not with the people in the east producing these bikes, its with the corporations in the west.

Many of the OEMs put all of their eggs in one manufacturing basket and when covid came along and shut down the far east they were caught with their hands in the cookie jar. Sorry, it's what they get for chasing the cheapest labor available globally.

If the value is not there for me, then I take my money elsewhere or do not buy until there is value for me. We as consumers do not owe these companies anything. The onus is on them to be prepared and stay afloat and to offer the consumer value.
  • 9 9
 @WY228: So then tell me where “they” should go to not having to ask “dentist pricing” and run a sustainable business that provides “us” with what we need, like and enjoy?

“They” is almost every organisation we buy stuff from - global economics is very real for everything we consume and we now get to see what that intertwinedness means if s**t hits the fan. Not propagating any of it, don’t get me wrong - it’s the sad reality we rarely get to see.

You’re free to take your money elsewhere - as long as it gets shipped to you and as long … as you can.
  • 12 1
 @WY228: exactly. Hard for me to have much sympathy for companies that have been gouging me while simultaneously putting the screws to the people who actually build their stuff and trying to run everything on the cheap. Especially when they are trying to get every cent out of the covid newbies before they go back to the couch.
  • 3 1
 There’s enough bikes out there for everyone!
  • 9 5
 @wilsonians: You also don't seem to understand "margins".
If you increase the cost of goods, and the shipping rates then the margin of said product drops. This is why we are seeing price increases. If a dealer makes a 30% margin (average btw) for a bike sale, the manufacture makes less than that. Manufactures absorb increases and fluxuations in shipping, the costs of delays, the credit interests included with those delays, etc. No one likes the way prices are going, but the increases are needed to keep margins healthy for these companies to stay in business and keep supplying bikes, parts, and jobs!
  • 9 26
flag HendersonMike (Sep 7, 2021 at 13:21) (Below Threshold)
 @whiteboarder: ,
BOOOM! You hit all the nails directly on the heads with all your postings here. All these Boomers and Millennials posting in this thread are all "Privileged and Elitists" they all the "answers" without even understanding how manufacturing, and the world really works in 2021. HAHAHAAH... They are all either very blind, or just very stupid. Maybe even both!

Our (The West) mentality is:
"Who really gives 2 shits about Vietnam Workers who lost their jobs and can no longer feed their families. We are mad because we have to pay 10% more and wait 10 more months for our Ibis Ripmos!."

I know myself know that we are all screwed, and it is more than not being able to get our Carbon Bicycles. These are basically the good times, in the near future expect huge INFLATION and the supply of food to drastically decrease.

We in the West expects to be paid $25 an hour with full medical benefits, + get 5 weeks of paid vacation, and only have a 30 hour work week. For some reason Millennial Americans also seem to think that they can do better manual labor than a Vietnamese person that is happy to just have a job, and works very hard so he can keep his job to feed his family (much less owning a carbon bike himself).

I myself have no idea why anyone would manufacture anything in America, the Companies have to pay high wages, and in addition, the companies have to also pay Medical and Social Security for each worker... and the worse part of it is the work ethic in America is Horrible now and almost Millennial American feels entitled to everything.

To make a Ripmo frame in Vietnam I am guessing is only about $100 with Labor and Materials. Of course there is Engineering, Manufacturing Equipment Cost involved, as well as QC and Warranty cost. So when it is all said and done, my guess is it cost Ibis about $300 per frame. Ibis though needs to profit so that $300 is now $800. Then when you add in packaging, shipping, Distributors and Distribution, and Retailers, that Frame is now $2400 (without Shock). This was back then before Covid and before lack of raw materials. As of right now, that Frame will be at least 10-20% more due to lack of production and increase in raw material and labor costs. Now if this frame was made in the USA, this frame would be be even $1000-$2000 more !

I swear, Millennials are just blind how the world works in general, and the old Boomer guys are just blind to how the world works in 2021.
  • 3 3
 @WY228: So let me get this straight, you're not happy with the prices while not being happy with where they're being made?
  • 2 3
 @Fix-the-Spade: Unless that “someone else” doesn’t exist and we all cry, right?
  • 20 5
 @HendersonMike: *gripes about privileged people not caring about laborers*

*proceeds to complain about paying people a livable wage and benefits*

Oh, the irony.
  • 3 0
 @whiteboarder: There is always someone else. In the meantime I'll keep riding my bikes.
  • 4 0
 @WY228: saved me having to say this. Cheers.
  • 7 6
 Yea man F bike companies, they should absorb a 1200% increase in shipping prices.

According to Shifl data, the rates for a 40-foot-long high cube container, the most commonly shipped containers, have risen from $1,350 in March 2020 to $17,500 in September. This rate is for shipping the container from China to Los Angeles, which is where the busiest U.S. port is located. Expect to pay nearly $20,000 to ship the container from China to New York. In March 2020, the rate was $2,850.
  • 2 0
 @WY228: buy used for the price of current new!
  • 1 0
 @salespunk: depends on the area I guess. Market has started to cool in my area in recent months.
  • 2 0
 @whiteboarder: "Well, if it’s so obvious why don’t you open up a shop that engineers, sources material and labour, logistics and marketing *locally* and be profitable to buy a kitted out Yeti that won’t be around anymore once you realize that what you think is so easy and obvious is … a pipe dream."

It was a sarcastic response. Anyone who would advocate for not paying their people is a total dipshit.
  • 12 0
 @WY228: Talk to the yeti guys who a decade-plus ago were offering side by side models USA-made and Asia made at a savings of about a grand. What country of origin do you think the consumers purchased?

So who was trying to save a buck. The company or the consumer?
  • 4 0
 @wilsonians: The record #'s weren't necessarily all new bikes. There is only so much capacity in manufacturing as we are finding out now. Those numbers were likely them selling all their available inventory faster than they could in the past but with nothing to replace it for months.

They were also selling distressed older inventory as well. All the bikes that were sitting in storage from the previous year or the year before that, were now sold. Now with clean warehouses, they can only sell what they bring in. My guess is that those record #'s will have only posted for one year since there isn't enough manufacturing capacity to produce enough bikes to meet last years sell-through.
  • 8 1
 @whiteboarder: bring back jobs in our countries ? I know it sounds insane, but I heard many stories saying that once upon a time, we too were able to manufacture stuff instead of having it made by others and only slap stickers once the stuff is here. Yeah it sounds radical doesn't it ? ....
  • 5 3
 @Balgaroth: , do you know that it is 2021 now? You talk and give advice as if we are all still living in the 1950s. The world is different now, and much has changed since 1950. Banking has changed, manufacturing has changed, the dollar has changed, and Entitlements has changed too. The bottom line and get directly to your point is WE (in the West) can't manufacture anything (in mass) because we in the west have no more big factories and manufacturing plants! Not just that, but everyone of us (in the West) is not capable of putting in a good 8 hours of manual labor in one day, that is because we (in the west) are all lazy and entitled now and not capable of hard manual work. It is what it is, and don't get mad at me for stating the obvious when eyes are wide open. Don't get mad at me because I have no control of any of this, I am just letting you know how it is now in 2021. However, it opening your eyes to 2021 upsets you, please don't open your eyes to 2021. I want you to feel good about yourself, and if living in the 1950s makes you feel better I will support you 1000%. HUGGZZZZ! and please discuss...
  • 3 0
 @HendersonMike: Things can turn around. In Portugal there is a « bike valley » where they massively invested thanks to UE laws or something, and are now producing a lot of frames for Europe (mostly urban bikes I think for now). Velcan is a french brand producing carbon frames locally, like GG.
Yes it’s gonna take a bit of time cuz’ we have to train people at manual work again (well, people can assemble components, it’s not hard) and get some machines, in the bike valley they have robots that weld the frame.
With economy of scales the price may be contained to some extent, though some would probably go up.
  • 2 0
 @whiteboarder: don't forget shipping lines holding everyone to ransom (spoke to an import business owner the other day and he's paying on average 8x higher container shipping costs vs pre-pandemic)
  • 5 3
 @HendersonMike: no one in the west is capable of putting in a good 8 hours of manual labor? Buddy you need to step out of your little cubicle and see the real world around you.

People in the west are not "lazy and entitled", we've developed as a society and have higher expectations for our way of life. We've outgrown the toxic "bootstraps" mentality that boomers like you swear by, we don't have to "shut up and take it" from companies anymore. Heaven forbid people stand up for themselves and demand better pay, benefits, and working conditions. The people aren't too lazy too work, the companies are just too cheap and greedy to pay.

But by all means, keep licking those corporate overlord boots. Cheer them on as they send their work overseas to underpay some poor foreigners being overworked in sketchy conditions just trying to keep their families partially fed. Great system you're rooting for there.
  • 4 1
 @HendersonMike: industrial revolution started in the West, I don't see why we couldn't bring back manufacturing. It certainly won't be like in the 50's since we've invented automation, good for us we will be able to produce without having to either exploit people from the other side of the world or putting our own in similar conditions. With the cost of shipping going through the roof and people from developing countries starting to ask (rightfully so) for better job conditions and pays, having things manufactured across the globe will make less and less sense. And those that remain in this ultra globalized and free market way of thinking might not understand what happens to them in a few years time. Like Will-narayan said, most city bikes sold in Europe are made in Portugal at the moment, Decathlon is one of the companies manufacturing there. If such market/companies manage to produce low-price/low-margin products here in Europe, I don't see why high-end products with high added value couldn't succeed to do so. Sure it might reduce shareholder margins for a few years to cover for the production tools investment but with the quickly raising costs of manufacturing in South East asia, combined with the current covid troubles, it might be the right to time re-assess this archaic vision of the world. First one to do so might even be able to keep/reduce costs (and see commercial success) when all other bike companies will increase bike prices every year to cover-up the additional costs and retains their margins.
  • 2 0
 @wilsonians: if demand > supply, you don’t reduce the margin.
  • 1 0
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: that is the American way my friend
  • 1 0
 @WY228: “toxic bootstraps mentality”?
  • 2 1
 @Baller7756: when the people who were born on third base thinking they hit a triple tell you if you “work harder” it will all work out.
  • 1 0
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: our numbers were a little more modest than that but not too far off. Our first shipment with a 40’ high cube from a factory in China was $4,500. The same container was quoted to us last month at $14,500. 3x shipping increase is the number I keep hearing around the industry. My experience is consistent.
  • 1 2
 @Will-narayan:

Looking at 1 page in the book does NOT give us any idea what the book says. You have to read all 50,000 pages to really know what is going on in the book and what is really going on in the world. I do your positivity though! I think it is super cute how big eyed and hopeful you are.

However, I can NOT be so positive because I see the big picture. Things are where they are now beause it is NO accident, and has nothing to do with careless Politicians either, all this was planned! There is a reason why Manufacturing of goods was cut in the west. All us Sheep in the West were purposely handicapped and manipulated to make it this way. The Rich only get richer, and poor only get poorer. All the laws you think help the poor, actually does the opposite. It makes them all poorer.

It is what it is, I have no control in any of this, I just try my best to ride bicycles, drink beer, and be happy till the end of my days, which is most likely less than 20 years away. HUGGGZZZ! 3 and please discuss...
  • 2 3
 @WY228:
Buddy, I think you need to open your eyes. I see how you like to make Exceptions the Rules. Overall, most of us in the West are helpless with poor work ethics, especially when it comes to manual labor.

There comes a point if 80% of the population is a certain way, then we can make a blanket statement for all 100%.

I myself am from the West but I know how to do manual labor as I have been doing it all my life! I have been working since I was 12 years old, was a Combat Veteran in the US Army in a Combat Line Unit, etc, etc... Even now I do my own stuff, I know how to shoot, gut, and clean a feral hog. I clean my own house, make my own ammo, and work on my own cars and bicycles. However, I am the EXTREME EXCEPTION to the typical Westerners.

It is what it is, I have no control in any of this, all I try to do is ride bicycles, drink beer, and be happy. HUGGGZZZ! 3 and please discuss...
  • 1 3
 @Balgaroth:
and? Jungles were once in the Sahara Desert, and Farming started in Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq). Just because the best Farming was in the Mesoptamia, and the Best Jungles were in the Sahara, and the best Manufacturing Plants were in the West....

does NOT mean that that these places will get back to their "glory" days. With Automation comes NOT enough Jobs for everyone and more hardships for the whole world.

I do love your positive vibe though! I think it is super cute! However, Looking at 1 page in the book does NOT give us any idea what the book says. You have to read all 50,000 pages to really know what is going on in the book and what is really going on in the world. HUGGGZZZ! and please discuss...
  • 4 0
 @HendersonMike: "no one in the west knows how to do manual labor except me"

FFS, go crawl back under your rock old man.
  • 1 3
 @WY228:
Mr. WY228 Sir! Don't get mad at me! I do not control anything except myself. Trust me my man, I have seen it with my own eyes. I know of very few people that can actually do any work around the house (including cars, bicycles, and motorcycles). I am pretty sure I can teach you a thing or too if you are up to it. HUGGGZZZ! 3 Please discuss Good Sir.
  • 3 2
 @WY228: ,
I never said no one wants to do manual labor except me, go back and read my posts. I said that people in the West that CAN do manual, and have a hard work ethic, are the exception and NOT the rule. I have seen it with my own eyes. Most Millennial Americans are so helpless they can't even change a flat tire or their car's engine oil.

If you yourself can do manual labor and have a good work ethic I commend you, and will say you too are an EXCEPTION and NOT the Rule.

BTW, Love all the Downvotes I am getting for pointing out the Reality of the Situation of the World and of the Future. Real Life does suck!

However, I want you Millennials please keep on giving me downvotes to all of my Reality Posts, and I want you kids to believe whatever you need to so you can feel better about yourself and about the Future. Sometimes living in a Fantasy is a GOOD THING! HUGGGZZZ! 3
  • 3 0
 @HendersonMike: I think you're getting downvotes for sounding like a egomaniac, and maybe a bit of an a*shole. no one asked you about your pig gutting skills but propped yourself upon it. if you're trying so hard to DrInK bEeR aNd Be HaPpY then why are you so miserable and doom and gloom and got so figured out that the world is all messed up. sounds like you're lying to yourself. Now go load some 223 and pew pew.
  • 2 0
 @ridingofthebikes: never trust a man who ends his comments with a corny signature

hUGgGZzZ!!!3
  • 1 2
 @ridingofthebikes:
I am just trying to learn from you kids and how to act in today's society. Hopefully you can help me.

I am an old man with old ways, and back in the Old Skool Days we were allowed to be Cocky. The way we see it, what is wrong with having an Ego and being Cocky? None of us are the Best and there are always many better than us in many crafts and disciples. When someone is better, give them props and shake their hand. This is OLD SKOOL way.

Us old skool guys admire Cristiano Ronaldo, because of his Cockiness, If you are the BEST IN THE WORLD like Cristiano, why hide it? If you are the best in the world and hide it, is it because you are ashamed of being the best in the world ????

However, I do understand though that Ego is a bad thing now, because Millennials and the Wimenz run the world now, and they all tell us we are NOT allowed to have Egos, that we have to be Communists and act like everyone else. I GET IT! HUGGGZZZZ! 3 and please discuss....
  • 1 1
 @WY228: ,
HUGGZZZ back atcha! I love everyone and appreciate everyone. Maybe one day we can meet up and you can teach me more about the WAYS of the Millennials. HUGGGZZZ! 3
  • 1 1
 @wibblywobbly: IDK bro… bootstraps mentality worked for me. Matter of fact… I’m not sure I have ever met anyone born on 3rd base. I’m sure there are a few, but I’m also sure there are more bootstraps successes than those born with a silver spoon… so to speak.
  • 3 0
 @HendersonMike: I'm old and always believed you let your skill do the talking and look at cocky people as dicks. Pretty basic and simple.
  • 1 1
 @TheOriginalTwoTone:

) Do you know you are on the internet? How will people see your skills and know your accomplishments on the Internet?

2) all I said is I know how to do manual labor and have a good work ethic. Is that really bragging?

Please discuss....
  • 1 0
 @HendersonMike: Wow completely missed the point.

Good luck in you cockiness, but don't assume most old school guys agree,
  • 2 1
 @TheOriginalTwoTone:
Are you sure you are not a Millennial? Because you sure talk like one.
"A man that thinks the same at 50 when he did when he was 20, just wasted 30 years of his life" -- Muhammad Ali.
And HUGGGGZZZ! and please discuss...
  • 2 1
 @HendersonMike: Definitely not that exceptional, more like a very basic set of skills. Your blanket statements about a generation are ignorant, these sentiments have been repeated for thousands of years by the older generation about the younger generation but here we are in world ran by the next generation and historically speaking the world is safer and better then it ever has been. Thankfully you were spared in that joke of war started by a false report of an attack against an American ship. Maybe that's why you're so bitter?
  • 1 0
 @IF-OBA-WILLS-IT: *lower profit margins
  • 1 1
 @MikeGruhler:
Mr. Mike Gruhler Sir,
I am a Degreed Electrical Engineer, I was trained and taught to generalize (estimating).

Take Magnetic Field Theory for example, using a "Smith Chart" is technically what you Millennials call "Generalizing". What you Millennials call "Generalizing" we old Men call "Estimating".

I think one statement of Generalization that both old men and millennials can agree on is: "Lions are NOT Vegetarians".

Me and you both will agree with this generalization statement, no? I mean I myself do NOT know all the Lions that ever lived, nor have I personally communicated with even 1 Lion, much less all the the Lions to have ever lived to find out with 100% Certainty if "All Lions are NOT Vegetarians".

However, based on my knowledge from some of the Lion Experts, as well as watching the Discovery Channel, I feel good about this Generalizing Statement when I say "Lions are NOT Vegetarians".

Also, Even if only 10% of Lions are Vegetarians, at least I will be 90% correct when I say "Lions are NOT Vegetarians".

Do you think Generalizing is a bad thing?

Also, please don't get mad at me if Millennials (in General) do NOT have good work ethic! I have no control of any of this.

Please discuss...
  • 18 0
 Soooooo, since there's no frames to put components on............................................................
  • 22 5
 steel is real
  • 6 1
 Especially chromag
  • 9 7
 ... Heavy!
  • 4 0
 If you really want to be cvlt - ride Iron frames.
  • 2 1
 I foolishly sold my carbon XC bike at the beginning of the pandemic and haven't been able to source a replacement....so I'm doing to be doing a 50 mile XC race on my 32 lb steel, long travel, all-mountain hardtail, should be fun!
  • 1 1
 @donthaveadropper: chromag bikes cannot be really purchased
  • 15 1
 Carbon preprags storred for a long time
+ new workers
The first frames after the lockdown will maybe not have the best quality...
  • 11 0
 it's almost like having so much of our production outsourced and offshore is a bad thing......
seriously when are people going to align their spending with their purported values?
  • 14 6
 Countries popularly [but wrongly] seen as the "darlings" of covid during the early days (AUS, NZ, Vietnam, etc.) are starting to prove the pre-covid conventional wisdom: you don't lockdown to fight a highly transmissible, airborne, respiratory virus. All it accomplishes is to delay the inevitable, but at the expense of creating indirect harms due to the lockdown. Even the strategy of locking down in anticipation of a vaccine is proving wrong b/c covid, like most endemic respiratory viruses, is highly adaptable and therefore, vaccines against them have a very short shelf life of effectiveness (i.e., new vaccines have to be created seasonally). Israel just saw its highest single day covid cases, despite being the most vaccinated country in the world. Vietnam, NZ, and AUS all have comparatively low vaccination rates anyways. And even if there's a rush to get vaccinated now in these countries (which there apparently is), they're doing so at the exact time when vaccine effectiveness is waning, due to new variants.

Therefore, this whole problem of entire countries locking down and wildly disrupting supply chains is minimally related to covid and instead related to a bizarre moment in history when people lost their minds.
  • 10 1
 if you have a decent bike that is still fun, you are crazy to sell it. bikes are impossible to find regardless how much cashflow you have.
  • 30 0
 How will I ever break my old strava times on a 2-year-old frame with an 11-speed drivetrain?
  • 1 0
 *delete
  • 8 0
 @Jvhowube: I bet it doesn’t even have 38mm stanchions!!
  • 4 0
 I am riding my hardtail, which fortunately I love riding, and waiting on a Meta TR - delivery got pushed from Sept to November so it should be available just as the snow falls in Whistler. I was given the option to cancel and re-order next year but with no indication when I might get it and what price changes there might be only that there would be a rise in price and delays to deal with! I should probably get an order in for a new pair of skis while I think about it!
  • 3 0
 @Jvhowube: singlespeed
  • 2 0
 Just went and checked out like 11 new mtbs at my local shop. what are you smoking? I guess they were all over 6 grand but i know what im talking abOUT TRUST ME.
  • 31 25
 It's quite simple. Build them out of metal. Which is the best value, strongest and most durable meterial to make bikes out anyway. Always has been. Make sure the wheels are same size front and rear and everyone is a winner. Easy!!
  • 10 0
 Loving my Chromag Doctahawk
  • 4 0
 @powellriviera: chromag is best
  • 8 0
 I have a feeling the loss $$ in carbon will be added onto to aluminum frames to compensate...
  • 1 1
 @powellriviera: Loving my Morph Steel FS.

I will pay the Vietnow carbon rates when I see some textreme layup that doesnt have to be painted because it looks so shit or delaminates with WD40
  • 9 1
 Not helpful if your aluminum frame is also welded in Vietnam. Buy frames made where you live.
  • 4 0
 Not everyone has access to local framebuilders in their home country after all, so these people shouldn't be burdened by shipping constraints at all - they should just stop biking entirely. Let's make all shifters, derailleurs, cables, cassettes, etc locally as well so we can exclude even more people from the sport. It's quite simple.
  • 20 0
 @MattP76 i love mix wheels soo much I’ve even put them on my tractor
  • 1 0
 @MattP76 ive even got mix wheels on my motorcross bike on my penny farthing and my hot rod
  • 4 8
flag MattP76 (Sep 7, 2021 at 12:46) (Below Threshold)
 @kingdick: Perfect for them. Not on a Mountain Bike.
  • 2 0
 @kingdick: I hope you got them the right way round.
  • 3 0
 The problem is since 99% of Kona Operators from 2011 snapped, its brought the averages down for the metal vs carbon debate...
  • 1 0
 Didn’t we see a bamboo bike on here sometime ago !
  • 7 9
 @hamncheez: Can't use Konas as a basis of argument for aluminum vs carbon. Fact is in the real world away from all the hype, lies and bullsh*t carbon has never been stronger than metal bikes. Metal better value and far more durable than carbon, always has been.
  • 7 5
 Metal is fine, and usually the better value, but let's not pretend that metal bikes are any more durable than carbon, unless we're talking about abrasion resistance.
  • 3 2
 @ridenwc1: not to mention a cracked aluminum frame is toast, a cracked carbon frame can be easily repaired and made even stronger than before
  • 1 0
 I have cracked aluminum frames, carbon frames, and even a titanium frame (haven't ever owned steel tho).

With market acceptable weights, any frame material has a risk a failing.

Quality steel frames are the only thing that are truly a forever frame, but they aren't "market acceptable weights"
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: yeah kind of but I’ve got an onone that pisses rust from the drain holes every time it gets wet let’s see if it last forever
  • 2 0
 @kingdick: My steel DMR Ex(alt) used to do the same. Yet I bet it's still going strong 10 years later.
  • 1 0
 got a rocky mountain A50 build WHY would you buy carbon. Just dont get it. high end build for the cost of a lowe end carbon. its a no brainer.
  • 11 1
 Why is Evil so evasive about their frames being built in Vietnam?
  • 10 7
 Racism
  • 10 3
 It could be bad for patriotisms.
  • 41 2
 Because they don’t want people to know their frames only cost $250 to make
  • 3 1
 Yea, thought that was extra silly. It's stamped on every bike, why be coy about it?
  • 1 1
 well, my wife's yeti beti sb5 was made in vietnam too
  • 11 0
 If you start digging, you can get a good picture of where a lot of bike products come from.

www.importyeti.com/company/evil-bikes
  • 1 4
 @nope1: Ah profit, the dirtiest word in the bike industry.

I have it on good authority margins are a little tighter than many think they are when all is said and done running a business, but yea bikez should be freeee, no profitz!
  • 3 0
 @Canadmos: nice link, thanks
  • 3 0
 @Canadmos: super interesting link, suppliers in Myanmar ring alarm bells for me…
  • 4 1
 Why direct this specifically at Evil? Its not like most companies are transparent about where their bikes are actually produced.

That said, I do hope that more companies move toward local production.
  • 3 2
 Not sure what your rant towards me is about. As a business owner I’m all for profit. I need it to eat. Has nothing to do with the fact of how cheap it actually is to get bikes made in Southeast Asia. The business model of the bike industry and its supply chains is antiquated. @justanotherusername:
  • 3 1
 Vietnam is one of the cooler countries to have a frame from in my opinion. I can't hold out for a Tibetan frame much longer
  • 2 0
 @DizzyNinja:
Yes, sorry, xenophobia
  • 1 2
 @Canadmos: um yeah, Evil's namesake just keeps on keeping on with their manufacturing in a military junta in Myanmar.
  • 2 0
 @Canadmos: Although it looks like in addition to Evil, Pivot, Alchemy, and Devinci all use that same manufacturer
  • 1 4
 @nope1: it’s directed at you as you made the flippant comment about frames ‘only’ costing $250 to make without any evidence to substantiate that and without taking into account any other aspects of actually running the business - essentially saying Evil are ripping people off.

As a business owner you know better, surely.
  • 6 1
 @justanotherusername: it’s not a “flippant” comment at all. VIP which makes frames for many bike brands has factories in China, Vietnam, and Myanmar. The cost for a Carbon frame in Myanmar is about $250 before it gets sent to Taiwan for finally assembly and gets it’s magical “made in Taiwan”sticker. It’s from my personal experience and has nothing to do with Evil FYI
  • 1 4
 @nope1: adding the facts as you found them after you make the point?
  • 1 4
 @nope1: It’s still a flippant point - how do you know it’s $250 a frame? You mentioned Vietnam but now mention Myanmar? You won’t address other business costs which define profit (dirty dirty) - you just throw out $250 like some kind of meaningful, factual statement.
  • 1 0
 @Canadmos: amazing data. Looks like frames from Myanmar - not Vietnam. Maybe something new (Hagar?) is done there or maybe they’re coy because they don’t want to admit where it comes from. ‍♀️

As for $250 a frame, lol. Maybe $250 per triangle 5 years ago, so double that, add inflation, and then add all the hardware, bearings etc. and you’d be getting close.
  • 2 1
 @Vlad-Putin: Looks like a lot of frame deliveries from Myanmar, not sure how I feel about it as I imagine China are using them as cheap labour.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I can’t see a Myanmar owned and run high end carbon frame factory, details are low on their website too.

A quick google about carbon production(not bicycle or linked to the brands here) in Myanmar found an article where staff that were part of a union were fired when Covid took place - non union staff kept their employment.

They earned $3 a day - is that cheap labour or almost slave labour?
  • 2 1
 Actually that was at VIP factory 2 - so part of the same company doing work for Evil and others. Looks like some of these brands have questions to answer about who is making their frames.
  • 1 0
 @Canadmos: this is very interesting. I work for a company that makes yellow machines and engines, and I don't want to think about searching on their name because the results would be terrifying!
  • 1 0
 @mountaingoat70: I only looked briefly but it was not THAT bad, seemed mostly related to Palestine.
It's probably not so much the maker of these yellow machines that's the worse, but all the companies using them.
  • 8 2
 I'm sure the vast majority of those waiting for a bike won't mind if a stem or handlebar is missing. Those are actually the parts that get replaced more often to fit individual preferences! So it would be even better so sell a bike without that. Also, the ones from the previous bike can be used. In my case, I even have six stems and four handlebars with small variations laying around that I could perfectly use. So why don't brands consider selling incomplete bikes? Even if more complex parts like brakes or transmission components are missing, I'm sure customer interest wouldn't be lacking.
  • 3 0
 Agree, frameset package's are ideal solution for mid level enthusiast who have clue of what he is putting on the bike
  • 1 0
 @nickmalysh: I didn't say that! I was suggesting making the option available for those interested. And the possibility might indeed be interesting even for the hypothetical clueless beginner who has no spare parts or a prior bike, if the shop has these parts available and (as it would be expected) knows what's suitable for the said bike. Which, btw, isn't really rocket science. Any newcoming mtb magazine browser might well know exactly what he wants.
  • 3 0
 @DavidGuerra: one of our local shops got in a bunch of bikes with no front wheels for their rental fleet and built the front wheels themselves. It happens but doesnt get passed to consumer as an option.
  • 1 1
 yeah.. I'm really still waiting for my shopvac company to sell me a shopvac without the caster wheels on the bottom. I have like a bunch of caster wheels from old vacuums i could just use. why don't people just save all their caster wheels so that when they need a new vacuum they can just use the old caster wheels?
  • 1 0
 @ridingofthebikes: I find it funny that someone would even look at a bike like that (a complete thing, like some kind of device, rather than a bunch of parts sold together for a cheaper price - which is what a bike sold as a set is to me). But it's good to learn and broaden one's horizons...
  • 28 20
 is the production move to Vietnam related to the response to the Trump tariff war on China?
  • 5 2
 In part, but I don't know of the cycling trade. Yes, many companies doing work out of China moved to other SE Asian nations. Chin's labor costs have also gone up comparatively to those countries as well.
  • 11 4
 why is a question being downvoted? Strange.
  • 19 5
 @hamncheez: I was a serious question. People can't handle the word Trump anymore?
  • 8 3
 @Sycip69er: because there was production in Vietnam before the tariff, wasn't a shift from that. and Trumps "tariff war" was so short lived it didn't have neither the unintended or intended consequences that so many people claim. it's just bad economic theory to tie one thing as the cause of so many changes.
  • 6 0
 No, Vietnam has been an international manufacturing hub long before Trump came on the political scene.
  • 3 1
 Yeah I think clothes & sneakers brands (nike, reebok) moved there first when China got too expensive.
  • 2 1
 @TotalAmateur: The section 301 tariffs that Trump enacted are still in effect, so the "war" is not over. Goods from China are still hit with an additional 15% tariff on top of the standard one already in effect. Production was already moving out of China for several reasons, labor cost being one. The 301 tariffs only accelerated the move.
  • 2 1
 @bicycle019: nobody is arguing it might have accelerated it, I'm saying attributing an entire economic shift to one thing is just irrational or ignorant. In any standard economic model you have so many variables that have their own vetting process to validate them as variables of influence. I'm all for more tariffs, global trade is a freaking mess and the rampant push to globalization is bound to leave lower classes in the lurch, as we're already seeing in China with the extreme 996 work culture.
  • 4 0
 @Sycip69er: but also considering how many people foam at the mouth when you mention Trump, I'd say people are also super sensitive to even his name being mentioned. good thing the new president isn't some old racist white guy that's bombing children overseas or keeping kids in cages now........oh wait...
  • 9 4
 So this means don't by a carbon bike in the next 8 months because they're gonna be training new people... That's what I read. Guerilla Gravity and Banshee about to be stoked with all the new aluminum bike orders they're about to get.
  • 7 0
 ... and GG makes half-carbon and full-carbon bikes in the USA.
  • 1 1
 @chrod: Not many actually doing that. Alchemy does there's in North America as well, right?

I'm sure there's a few others that do a mix. Santa Cruz is Taiwan and China.
  • 2 0
 Reeb is alloy and made in USA. Alchemy used to, but does not anymore.
  • 8 0
 Keep what you have and don’t break it!
  • 2 0
 I've resorted to riding older bikes more frequently until chains are available again... thankfully, I'm a trash panda and keep all of my bikes and parts, just in case I need to scavenge something.
  • 9 1
 Meanwhile, GG and WAO rolled up their sleeves a bit higher
  • 5 1
 @kanasasa I visited GG in Denver just after they launched their carbon manufacturing. After taking a spin on one of the prototypes and being shown around their small operation I asked if they had thought about licensing their process. They kinda looked sheepishly at each other and said maybe. If I was an owner of a smaller high end company like Evil, Yeti, etc. I would think about talking to them. I don't know much about how well GG's have faired over the long haul, but if they have performed even half as well as their claims on durability, their large form processing (main frames, big swing arms, etc.) would be an ideal fit for Evil.
  • 1 0
 Totally agree with what you are saying. Devinci could do the same for North American aluminum frames. Their factory is literally beside the aluminum foundry promotion.saguenay.ca/en/choose-saguenay/nos-secteurs-cles/aluminium @hellbelly:
  • 4 0
 Maybe time to stop relying on importing foreign products and make more in country. Make better quality longer lasting products. We don’t need new every year. This is what happens when you put all your eggs in one basket.
  • 6 0
 "(...)Smiles on faces and wind in your hair is our goal, well get there." ...WTF is that??
  • 1 0
 yeah, I wondered the same thing.
  • 4 0
 I would like that too, maybe with some revolutionary helmet technology?
  • 6 0
 Companies like hope and we are one sure must be feeling nice right about now. Doing everything in house has it's benefits
  • 4 0
 Mental image of Jeff Steber feverishly welding up aluminum frames again so Intense has something to sell... I'm sure they wouldn't have too much trouble selling a few 279 frames.
  • 1 0
 Maybe he can sell Gwin protos here lol
  • 6 0
 The WeAreOne Arrival's 9K price tag is starting to look appealing Wink
  • 2 0
 My 2021 Enduro Comp has a ‘HANDMADE IN TAIWAN’ sticker on it, as does my steel hardtail from RSD. Both bikes are full 29er, boost f&r and I picked up the needed hub drivers to run either rear wheel on either bike, extra tires, chains, brake pads, fork oil, spare shock on order and so forth. All that I need is a couple air springs and I could even swap forks back and forth. #alwaysbeprepared
  • 2 0
 The bike companies may have had a record year, but now comes the crunch. If there are no products to sell there is no money coming in. And we can expect them to hit red, as they would have had to pay for their factory orders upfront. I suspect that we may see some bike companies go under in the next year or two.
  • 1 0
 I must admit I have been lusting for new bike. But the prices for a new bike with parts I want is pretty high now so this news just reinforces my decision to wait. I updated one bike with a new shorter stem which is made down the street from my house. NSB Overlord. And I’m updating my hardtail with some 29er wheels also made locally. We Are One have been put on order.
  • 1 0
 I'm on wait lists for a Specialized Epic and Scott Spark at two dealers that I trust, both said that they are fairly confident that I could have a bike by late fall based on the current wait times that they are seeing. Maybe I'm being naive, but a couple of months wait time doesn't seem that bad.
  • 1 0
 Yeah this sucks. I personally messed up buying a new bike earlier this year in Feb, then selling it two weeks later due it being the wrong size. I've now lost a whole ton on money and can't get a replacement till well into next year.
  • 4 0
 I thought these companies learned last year the value of in-house manufacturing... oh well....
  • 3 0
 Would love a list of carbon bikes actually made in America. Pretty BS evil is on that list. I bought one because I thought it was made in America.
  • 1 0
 Very short list! But I am surprised you were fooled by Evil’s marketing. I did have an old (old) Evil Sovereign that was indeed made in USA but that was steel and before the buyout.
  • 2 1
 I hate that the USA has to rely on so much overseas. We can't build shit in our own country anymore. The greedy companies outsource everything to save a buck. It's just a damn shame! And all you fucking bleeding liberals can save your stupid comments for someone else. This is just my opinion, you don't have to like it or agree with it.
  • 4 0
 I'd consider myself "pretty liberal" and I can agree we rely too much on foreign production, and that needs to be remedied.

That's what we call "common ground."

It's a concept we should be using to find pathways forward as a Nation-State.
  • 1 0
 I just gotta laugh at people who demand a new bike every year or every couple of years. What's stupid from all of this is that the people in first world countries are willing to pay the high prices for bikes, components, and cell phone even when they're cheaply made elsewhere. I hate to use the term "3rd world" nations since places like Taiwan, Vietnam, and China are not 3rd world countries. However, they are able to produce everything at very low costs (eg: less than $50 for an iPhone). The profits that are reaped from companies selling their manufactured products produced offshore is massive (again as an example of an iPhone that costs over $1000 here in Canada)! And people buying products at MSRP - now that's just for dummies!
  • 1 0
 So please remember all this before you loose your shit on your LBS because part A didn't come in exactly as approximated. It's hard everywhere for everyone. Your bike shop is fighting to keep any kind of stock available so the wheels keep turning. Pretty tough to do when every step of the chain is interrupted. As a community we're better off, inclusiveness, helpfulness, & overall stoke is what's kept me on a bike & in the dirt since '94.
Brap.
  • 4 0
 Aren't Yeti mfg'd in Vietnam....Guess we won't be seeing that e-bike???
  • 8 10
 Yeti is overpriced BS!!!
  • 4 1
 @BoneDog: u must be talking about the lunch boxes cause my SB150 is f*cking unreal.
  • 3 0
 @Richo74: Plastic frame made in Taiwan for the same price as a hand made alloy Nicolai frame made in Germany? I appreciate they are well design bikes, but your really paying balls out for the name.
  • 2 0
 Yeti, Ibis, Specialized, Niner and Intense are all made by VIP Sports in Vietnam. I doubt we’ll be seeing anything new from these guys for awhile.
  • 1 0
 to anybody saying buy alu because carbon prices are only gonna go up, well I have bad news for you... Alu bikes not manufactured by those factories are only gonna go up in prices too...
  • 5 1
 They need to start building more bikes in the west.
  • 2 4
 Hate to break it to you but mountain biking is a global sport.
  • 2 0
 @tempest3070: 99% of them are made in asia
  • 7 2
 Revel said it best.
  • 17 13
 "...especially bad in Vietnam and China right now, and they do not have the same access to effective vaccines that we do..."
Meanwhile in the USA nearly 15 million vaccine doses have been thrown out since March. Freedumb! www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/america-has-wasted-least-15-million-covid-vaccine-doses-march-n1278211
  • 7 11
flag TheOriginalTwoTone (Sep 7, 2021 at 14:52) (Below Threshold)
 @chacou: what kind of stupid comment was that?
  • 17 2
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: I'm sorry, I'm too stupid to understand what you're taking offense to.
  • 1 0
 @chacou: um, they don't last forever. Are you saying we should give Vietnam and China are expired vaccines? Not sure what your point was. We've also administered 379 million shots...again what's your point? Why would China be concerned with a vaccine? They clearly have it under control given they've only had 4,636 deaths....I totally believe that figure
  • 1 0
 @MikeGruhler: It's not just *our* expired vaccines, there's partial doses that get thrown out among other reasons. Did you ask yourself why are those vaccines expiring? When there's millions of Americans that still aren't vaccinated, those vaccines expire because they're sitting on shelves in freezers in places like Florida when they could be actually be put to use in other parts of the world, which would actually help our economy by opening supply chains back up. The point is, we have the ability to open the economy back up with a vaccine that works and people are opting not to take it because "freedom", meanwhile there's billions of people around the world that would happily accept vaccines from the US. I'm speaking anecdotally from regular conversations I have with friends in India and Taiwan that can't understand the hesitancy here and joke that if we'd send those vaccines to their country they gladly take them.
  • 4 1
 I've got a 2022 Specialized Stumpy Evo mullet you can buy for $22,022.00 USD. Hit me up
  • 2 0
 those cheap sweatshop goods arent so cheap anymore. inflation + supply constraints, microbial hosts. globalism has a price tag.
  • 3 0
 Canfield is all aluminum and rad as hell. the Lithium I got this year is my favorite bike ever.
  • 6 6
 @WY228: ,
I don't own any companies and don't have any direct workers for me on my payroll. I do tip good though and do tend to pick up my friends tabs from time to time if that counts. I for the most part, do my own gardening, clean my own house, work on my own cars and bicycles, etc, etc. .

I am just painting the picture to make it clear to you of how the world and inflation really works. I don't like it either that we barely can survive on $15 an hour. However, don't blame me, I am NOT the one that made it this way, nor am I one to change anything. I am a working sheep just like you and most people.

The problem is people like you that "Forces a Livable Wage". Forcing a higher minimum wage and forcing people to have healthcare ONLY does one thing, it causes INFLATION and makes us all Poorer for it. ok back in History, and you will see that every time there is a minimum wage increase, this causes everyone to be poorer (eventually they get poorer), this is because it causes INFLATION. Inflation is the best TAX of all because most of us Sheep are TOTALLY BLIND to this Hidden tax. Please discuss...
  • 1 0
 So one company makes the carbon for Ibis, Rocky Mountain, Evil, Revel, Specialized, and Intense. Shimano, SRAM and Fox pretty much make the rest of the bike. These bike brands are more like distributors.
  • 4 1
 —Tom Morgan, Ibis President (and sometimes Janitor)
  • 4 1
 omG haaha Hes a Blue coLLar
  • 3 0
 Alu bikes to cost as much money of carbon ones in 3.2.1...
  • 3 0
 Ok so then 2024 we should maybe have our bikes. Got it!
  • 5 0
 Q4 2024, just to be clear.
  • 26 23
 The solution to the problem, remove the politicians........
  • 17 14
 Or libertarians
  • 14 20
flag L0rdTom (Sep 7, 2021 at 12:47) (Below Threshold)
 Yeah makes sense. Remove the politicians, ergo removing the lockdowns, and we let the factory workers die in their thousands so we can have our shiny toys.
  • 20 23
 The solution to the problem is for people to get vaccinated. Period.
  • 21 16
 @Tigergoosebumps: Libertarians: Hey, maybe we should be skeptical of government actions, since governments killed 100 million of their own people in the 20th century alone, especially since there is good evidence this pandemic was created by 1. A government created virus and 2. A government hiding the fact that there was a pandemic and imprisoning whistleblowers & scientists

Tigergoose: REEEEEEEE
  • 10 4
 @Lotusoperandi: short term, yes. Israel's situation is proving it doesn't "solve" covid
  • 3 0
 That would help to make this world a better place.
  • 3 5
 @L0rdTom: That's Florida my boy!
  • 7 3
 @Lotusoperandi: Wrong. See Israel.
  • 7 1
 @hamncheez: skepticism is healthy.
  • 2 1
 @L0rdTom: If the damn vaccine and masks work then use them if you want to? Then all the poor old factory workers won't die? Like what is your logic
  • 9 6
 @Lotusoperandi: my body my choice
  • 1 1
 @inonyme: actually no its not. Just because you don't force people to wear a mask doesn't mean some people still will
  • 3 6
 Yay FREEDUMB
  • 2 1
 @hamncheez: in ref to the lab leak theory, ever hear that Hicks joke about we know sadam has chemical weapons, cos here's the receipts......
  • 1 1
 @Lotusoperandi: ....if they want to
  • 3 2
 @p-m-z: (DON'T SAY IT THAT LOUD their brains will explode)
  • 2 2
 @togood2die: shhh... yes, common sense doesn't exist anymore
  • 11 1
 Ok, I suppose its still "controversial" to bring up the lab leak hypothesis because Trump mentioned it (even though thats where all the evidence is pointing), but its it really controversial to say that the Chinese government lied, hid evidence, imprisioned doctors and journalists, etc to cover up that there even was a virus for months? Then they used their political influence on the WHO to get hair brained theories like the Norwegian seafood idea published to distract and deflect blame? How can anyone say "we need to trust all medical authority" after watching the WHO representative pretend that there isn't a country called Taiwan?
  • 6 0
 @hamncheez: It warms my heart to read that you’re not in the least bit sucked in by the bullshit narrative.
  • 1 0
 @Tigergoosebumps: How about beta-male government simps?
  • 1 0
 @Lotusoperandi: like, at least four times. Or something.
  • 5 1
 @nojzilla: do you think you're clever, openly saying you don't like freedom? do you think the tyrannts will spare you because you were on their side?

I don't get this mentality at all. "f*ck my freedom and liberty! put me in shackles daddy gubmint! where is the boot for me to lick???"
  • 1 1
 @conoat: Also defund the police, but give them more power and authority
  • 4 1
 We dont need carbon, alu is working just alrigth.
  • 2 0
 Orange and Hope read this article and then go into work tomorrow and knock out a few more bikes while laughing.
  • 3 0
 Didn't Orange have a load of kit stuck in the Suez canal? They're not isolated from problems like this
  • 1 0
 @HankHank: That’s for the made in Taiwan stuff, if you spend a bit more you get the made in UK stuff and that will never have lead time issues.
  • 1 0
 As far as I’m aware hope now have fairly long lead times but due to raw material supply, I’ve been waiting 8 weeks for hubs! Must be coming straight off the production line @xxinsert-name-herexx:
  • 1 0
 @xxinsert-name-herexx: I’m sorry, how many shutdowns has the UK had again? What a ridiculous comment.
  • 5 0
 the only insult worse than having your new bike delayed because of insane governmental actions, is riding an Orange. lol
  • 3 0
 Good. Ride your old bike until it crumbles.
  • 2 0
 I don't have that problem I'm a Foes Racing dealer made in the USA and get my bikes on time ●
  • 3 0
 Brands could talk to guerrilla gravity see if they can produce frames..
  • 1 0
 So diversify the supply chain to be able to weather disruptions? Have Taiwan as a backup. Never a good idea to have a sole supplier.
  • 1 0
 Litespeed Nolichucky. US handmade Ti shipped to my door in 4 weeks time. Granted it was on crazy sale when I ordered the frame.
  • 3 0
 I ride an aluminum bike. It works
  • 1 0
 This post briefly made me happy to have ordered a Ripmo AF.... but in all fairness I did order that bike in April and I'm still waiting lmao
  • 3 0
 I can't ride a bicycle in Vietnam
  • 3 1
 Perhaps bike companies should consider funding/sourcing vaccines for the Asian workers they depend on.
  • 1 0
 Can't really get all dewy eyed over this. Shame big bike companies making lots of cash, you'll have to delay those bonuses for a year.
  • 1 0
 Basically if you're after a new bike - buy off a smaller independent company or just go back to Alu/Steel bikes.

Or just keep your bike for longer!
  • 2 0
 How good does that bike look in the thumbnail?
Buy mine here ... m.pinkbike.com/buysell/3127255
  • 2 0
 Well my $2300 Guerrilla Gravity frame doesn't seem to be affected by this PB article.
  • 1 0
 These companies must make an absolute killing having their frames made in places like Vietnam. Their manufacturing is even cheaper than China.
  • 1 0
 Smiling ear to ear. Just picked up a brand new Firebird. Though, I had to settle on the wrong size, colour, and shock option..lol.
  • 1 0
 No carbon Blizzards for anyone.

Realistically…. Everyone should make high end aluminum bikes now. They have the frames… just put better parts.
  • 2 1
 Genuinely curious about the work conditions including H and S in Vietnam factories
  • 5 1
 They are way better than you probably expect. Better than some of the local production I've seen here in the USA. Source: me, having been to many factories in Vietnam and China.
  • 4 0
 @bicycle019: Good to hear considering what Max Commencal said about carbon factories a few years ago
  • 3 0
 Aermet anybody?
  • 3 0
 Get your abrasive mitering setup out of the basement!
  • 2 0
 Detailed, informative article Alicia, thanks
  • 1 0
 Looks like I should pre order my next frame this year for 2023. ( no I will not be going to aluminum)
  • 1 1
 ha try 2024 at this point. Not sure why anyone would want to wait that long if they had the option to potentially get aluminum a lot sooner. I refuse to hop on the carbon train anyway. It is over-hyped, fragile and overpriced imo. And no it's not bc i cannot afford it, my new alu bike costs $6500. I just like it better but to each their own!
  • 2 0
 @stumphumper92: I've been on the carbon kick for a long time. And have yet to have any issues. I know that some people break them, but they also break aluminum. For me it's the stiffness and weight that swings me. I don't like much if any lateral give especially for park and tend to run stiffer set ups given my 200lb weight. But your right every rider has thier own preferences and mine just happens to be space age plastic.
  • 2 0
 And that’s why Commencal remains on top
  • 3 0
 Aluminum FTW
  • 1 0
 Sounds like they're lying about what country they manufacture in.. most are in Taiwan or China..
  • 1 0
 We'll happily make them on the sunny south coast of England. It just might cost the end user 5 times as much!
  • 1 0
 on the other side of the coin, does this mean that more spares will be available if they cant be put onto full builds ?
  • 1 0
 People need to keep their bikes...Good point for the planet. I've a steel bike by the way.
  • 1 0
 Oh noes! What did we do before the Carbonz? Muh memories all short-term and muh future visions all tunnelly 'n' stuff...
  • 2 2
 The jig is up, the game is out in the open, stop talking about the false bull crap. We're done with this controlled narrative and dystopian social suicide.
  • 1 0
 I sold an Evil Following V2 w/ X01 to my friend for $800 I bet I could have gotten a hella lot more ha ha
  • 1 0
 What about considering berrilium as a Covid-19 fighting frame material?
  • 1 0
 Lol. A healthy alternative?
  • 19 22
 "The country had a swift, effective response to the virus and essentially wiped the virus clean from the country using social distancing, mask mandates, diligent contact tracing, and aggressive quarantine rules. Those strategies, which rely largely on public participation at the individual level, were effective"

Yes, the average age of 32 years old for the country and warm climate has nothing to do with it. Its authoritarianism that fixed it!
  • 14 9
 funny how many Americans who have never actually lived under an authoritarian regime call anything they don't like authoritarian. Democracy is cool until the majority don't agree with you amarite????
  • 11 17
flag RichieNotRude (Sep 7, 2021 at 13:27) (Below Threshold)
 Totally wrong, India average age is 26 and I think we'll agree it's warm. Believe it or not citizens doing the right thing would have eliminated this virus a year ago. Countries that did the right thing are now dealing with an uncontrollable delta strain cos all the others couldn't get their shit together, thanks heaps useless C*nts
  • 10 7
 @RichieNotRude: So India's lower quality of living, lower access to healthcare, lower sanitary practices has nothing to do with it? Ok. Authoritarianism it is!
  • 7 7
 can i tempt you with some dewormer paste sir
  • 20 14
 @dirtologist: You mean the drug, taken by over 3.4 billion people, that’s responsible for almost eradicating river blindness in Africa, and has proven 65% effective in randomized trials at reducing symptoms of severe cases of C19?

Keep believing the media smear campaign though bro. Let me guess, you still this the virus originated in a wet market right?
  • 7 3
 @RichieNotRude: Garbage. It’s a Corona virus. Where do you think it’s going to go?
  • 9 9
 @jclnv: Well where I live it went no where, we literally have got down to zero cases several times over the past year and a half (in fact today = zero no new cases), we have stopped it multiple times then it comes back from other countries who had no political will to control it.
If everyone had done that short and sharp treatment we wouldn't be in this mess, but politicians chose to pick the medical advice that suited their agenda, fortunately our politicians are much more centrist (due to multiple reasons) and are more likely to follow the advice of real experts than the lunatic fringe.
  • 4 4
 @hamncheez: Not sure if you're trying to prove my point or not ?
  • 18 3
 @RichieNotRude: It’s a fast mutating, seasonal, Corona virus. Unless you want to seal off your country forever you’re just kicking the can down the road.
  • 5 1
 @pedrosalas7: I refer you to the 2016 US Presidential election to witness your tribe outraged at democracy in action.
  • 2 0
 @jclnv: the only study I saw was removed: www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02081-w
Got another?
  • 1 1
 @Vlad-Putin: Consolidated results - ivmmeta.com
  • 8 6
 @RichieNotRude: what kind of collectivist knob are you? you really think there is a way for a planet of nearing 8 billion, with a f*cking B, people can ever get to zero Covid? and to what measures are you willing to go to? the ones like Vietnam where they lock workers in factories for a month if they get a single case? where they beat people with canes if they go outside?

this authoritarian crap is getting beyond ludicrious
  • 5 0
 @conoat: I hate how all nuanced is lost. You can't say "hey, this is pretty bad, but we have to be careful about balancing out government power with individual rights" without being an extremist science denier.
  • 1 0
 @jclnv: *hits bong*
  • 2 0
 Back to #RideFinMetal
  • 2 2
 We don't need those frames. The bullshit bike industry needs they to make more cash.
  • 1 0
 Great shit rolls downhill, we’re screwed
  • 1 0
 Another reason to buy a bike made in your own country if you can.
  • 2 1
 makes miss seeing Made In America
  • 2 1
 So yet again governments make everything worse.
  • 1 0
 It means record sales & profits for bike companies.
  • 1 0
 Aluminum is the way to go
  • 1 0
 I hope some of you are YETI for this....
  • 1 0
 Put gps/wifi trackers in your bikes!!! Thefts are up and will get worse.
  • 1 0
 Guess I won't be seeing my Tranny Spur in '21.
  • 1 0
 Plastic bikes. What stupid f--king idea. We're doomed.
  • 2 1
 Sb150 frame: $6900.00
  • 3 0
 15k for a bike frame from Vietnam... gotta love modern economy. Yes, I'm looking at you Mr. Sinyard.
  • 1 0
 We are one smiles.
  • 3 6
 Good - all that waste carbon and epoxy won't get dumped in the ocean. Pole bikes had it right back in 2017 when they ditched the carbon concept entirely. polebicycles.com/why-arent-we-going-for-carbon-frames
  • 7 0
 yes because aluminum grows on trees and it totally takes no energy to melt it into a block and then turn 99% of it into chips.
  • 1 0
 @jokermtb: The market will solve all these problems. But we can still panic in the meanwhile.
  • 1 0
 Cast iron bikes FTW.
  • 4 4
 Who cares?
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