For people already involved in mountain biking, bigger tires, wider rims, lighter carbon, longer suspension, more gnarly trails, and taller jumps may be amazing advances - and that is just fine for someone who wants a little bit more speed and grip, the experienced racer needing an edge, the guy, who measures his mates by the gram, or the conqueror who has squashed his local trail network and needs higher jumps or longer loops.
Ask somebody who has never rode a mountain bike before, what faster, stronger, lighter and bigger means and the answer will probably be: "Compared to what?" What is "better" compared to "nothing?" For example, my dad, rarely rides bikes, so taking dad around a remote trail center on a carbon 27.5-inch bike, instead of an alloy 26-inch one might allow him to roll and climb a little faster and find a little more grip, and its high-end components might make his life easier, but dad is not going to have any idea about the recent technological advances in our niche sport. He will just ride the bike and assume that this is what a bike feels like. He will have no point of comparison from which to make that judgment, and probably, his riding level would be nowhere near the capabilities of the bike. Hopefully he would enjoy himself regardless, as he negotiated around 40-foot tables and avoided the black trails.
![People for Bikes Philadelphia Pumptrack opening.]()
These guys aren't popping for carbon super-bikes yet, but they will be one day.
Are we enticing new riders with all this marketing and technology? Marketing $8000 super-bikes, to big-dog dentists and lawyers with disposable incomes, to passionate die-hards who live by the latest kit, or racers who must keep up with their competition will surely bring in plenty of dollars for bike makers this year, but is this bigger, faster, stronger direction that the market is currently taking the best way to grow our sport in the long term? How does an $8000 superbike with five functions on the handlebar get people off the sofas and onto the trails? Let go of the console and grab some grips? Get kids on bikes and families out for the weekend and breed the next generation of riders? I can't remember the last time I saw an advert biased towards new riders. It's always: 'We sold you THAT. but NOW you need THIS."
There has been huge evolution in the sport, especially in the UK, and for a period of time, new trails, pump tracks, retail shops and riders have sprouted up and all were welcomed with open arms, but has all that come to an end? Maybe I am biased, or blinkered because I have been at the sharp end for so many years. Perhaps all that high-end marketing hype actually does trickle down to newbies and reels them into the sport. Perhaps the current growth of our sport is enough to sustain us for the coming years. If it isn't though, are we digging a black hole by concentrating upon hyper-expensive technical improvements, building bicycles tailor made for elite-level riders, and constructing trails to showcase super-powers that will generate short term profits that will abruptly dry up when current riders are too old, injured or broken to ride anymore? Are there be enough new riders today who will possess disposable incomes and will progress to replace them? Maybe we should turn down the volume a notch or two and try making the sport more approachable - and encourage some new seedlings to enter the sport.
So, the question is: Are we investing in the future or bleeding the present dry? Ten years from now, when a huge chunk of the current cash crop have left the scene, will our feasts have created a famine?
Pretty sure it was about whether or not they are soaking us.
It's not hard to see that the top models from the top brands are serious bank breakers.
It's also not hard to see, as my boy "beersndspokes" said below, that there are options to the boutique bikes everyone would like.
Advances in bike technology have put everyone who rides, or who wants to ride, in a great spot.
A place where it is very hard to find a bad bike. The big boys spend a lot on R&D and price their products to reflect that.
Once there are advances though others will copy. If you asked me if I'd rather ride a brand new $3000 bike from 5 years ago or a brand new $2000 bike from now, I'd go with the cheaper one.
Lots of really nice stuff out there now for easy money.
Two packs of butts a week is $3000 a year.
Bikes are not that expensive
Laziness is though
I first started once I quit racing motocross. I worked on my own mx bikes, but even mtb specific stuff was all new to me. I had no idea what size I needed, I didn't know anything about Pink Bike, I had no clue about my local trail centers. All of those things were discovered through the bike shop relationships I developed as a beginner. To me that is priceless.
I will agree that the pricing is high, and I did make a few purchasing mistakes to begin with, but its all lessons that needed to be learned one way or another. You could recommend an intermediate/expert rider in the direction of direct selling because they know what they want, they know what to look for in a spec sheet, and they most likely have a good skill set to build / repair their own equipment.
Its a tough scenario but nobody works for free. The best way to get people involved is to share the experience with friends.
I have multiple friends asking me all the time to come out and ride because they have seen pictures on instagram or facebook, mostly guys that like to ride moto. Fortunately I have a loaner bike that they can ride that is still worth $2500 easy so its not like they are starting out on a Wal-Mart special with paper mache rims and bars.
As for manufacturers focusing on high end stuff: that you do want. Your great value amazing bike for $3000? It's called trickle down technology.
I don't think there's ever been a better time for newcomers to enter the sport. Less than £1000 (still a lot of money, I know) can buy a cracking trail bike. Shimano Deore kit is as good as, if not better than XTR gear from a few years ago. I doubt that would be the case without all this R&D.
Manufacturers of anything are always going to flaunt their top kit more. Car advertisements, for example, always show the top end 'sport' or similar model alongside the price tag of the entry level model.
If we really want to help our kids become passionate, I mean really passionate about this sport we need to get back to the grass roots of the sport. No one needs disc brakes, no one needs suspension, and absolutely no one needs a 400$ Troy Lee helmet so that they can have fun. Parents need to get involved with their kids activities and have them make do with what they already have, not upgrades for performance, no kid needs performance. Every time a parent asks if the 20" wheel xc bike suspension fork has a lock out, I want to scream. Companies are audacious enough to make 20" DH bikes for kids ( 7 to 10 yr old's ) and sell them for more than I paid for my first second hand car. But where will they ride these machines? When kids try to ride at the local park or hill they are kicked out, regulations are put in place banning cycling on trails for fear of " liability " and children are stuck with nothing to do. Now, the cities prune trees so that the lowest branches are 10 feet off the ground...Kids aren't even allowed to climb trees!!!!!
Flash forward, and you have these awesome dads bringing their 10 year old's to whistler, and the kids are throwing down shit that I (don't tell anyone) would inspire to do! Another element is facebook. These young kids are getting exposure not just on pinkbike (which is HUGE!) but also their similar aged peers are seeing them send it off 30 foot doubles, and asking their parents to get them a sweet bike to cruise the parks with. Our sport is no longer growing at a linear/word-of-mouth rate - it's growing geometrically!
The growth today is awesome, it's positive, productive, friendly and this sport has some solid roots to it now that will ensure growth for the next decade no problem.
-Note: I'm not involved in any of the sales/marketing of this sport, so this growth is just what I observe, I have no numbers to back it up.
www.pinkbike.com/news/absolute-black-oval-chainring-review.html
But yeah you're right in terms of exponentially. (Also I'm aware that oval chainrings have been around for a while)
i.e.
Geometric growth:
2, 4, 6, 8, 10...
Exponential growth:
2, 4, 8, 16, 32...
Living in Basel, I know that he will be riding bikes every single day and if one day he decide that cycling will be his chosen sport... he will have all necessary support from his family, but also from his community (closest pump track is just 300 meters away).
I just hope that one day I will be fit enough to ride with him... let's see... maybe... ''Passport du Soleil''
I'm not asking for too much, do I?
I am also more than sure than technology is pushed to the limit these days, it's hard to imagine any breakthrough. Sub 10kg , sustainable Downhill bikes are not going to happen sorry... and even If they would, why would you need one? We started of with Banshee Scream and MOnster fork at 25kg, now average DH bike easily goes at 16,5kg.
The problem i have is the growth of our sport, which I honestly think is a bullshit. We need quality in our sport NO1, growth NO2. Sure, numbers of riders are a good backup when you want to get permission for a trail, but NO1 problem is to get people who are going to stick their neck out and talk to municaplity then No2, get people to build and maintain trails. That has little to do with number, it has to do with quality and sense of responsibility - that comes from education, from seeing others working. I am sure of one thing, whatever growth of the sport brings more people shitting on trails than building and maintaining them. So first worry how to make people more active in community, then how to get more of any people. We need established riders quit saying that somebody should do something. We need them to become that somebody, there's enough people not doing anything and riding on someone elses hard work.
Regarding people that doesnt have the leadership edge or is just too young, is perhapa more focused in improving his skills and his only, as it is an individual sport. I might be generalizing on the last one...just food for thought.
However, I don't think it can work. No matter whether it's a set fee or % (% could make even more sense, perhaps, even just 0.5%), it'd be hardly any different from either the shop sponsoring the trail organisation OR paying it in taxes and getting the city support the work. You could try to do it an other way, just paying a fee for a purchased bike and distributing it, but you'd end up having to set up pretty sophisticated system of applications for these funds, people who would evaluate whether the trail network that requests funds etc is legit, then stuff, more stuff and in the end you might end up doing more work either on the "funding organisation" side AND the trail network managers/builders.
As a very passionate biker, my motivation for trail building isn't money, nor the time spent matters to me. I build to ride what I want to ride, or to express something, trail building is art. Yes, it does cost money to get tools, it costs a lot of time, but as with any form of art, it shouldn't be profit driven, and if you build in a place where the community is worth building for, they'll take care of you, at least from my experience.
on trail building and use which would only limit freedom.
NO3 that would be impossible fiscally
Personally i can get out once a week with my studies. Since it's raining here, i just ride to my locals, build all day, and ride back.
Actually, when it's this kind of weather, i prefer building to riding, since i know if i build, i'll have more trails to blast around on in the summer.
And if other people use them, all the better!
Although maybe this stems from the fact we don't have too many trails in the immediate area, hence my motivation to build.
I can see why people who already have loads of trails might not feel the need to build. But they should be able to see that trails aren't eternal and need maintenance.
Hey how about this:
Sell a mcleod and shovel with every bike!
Have trailboss tools up for rent (cheap) at local bike shops!
It's important for people to step up and stick their necks out instead of firing off at those taking the risks.
We have to build a community that embraces hard work and puts investments back into the bike industry -- work, effort, funds. We have these already, but it's a small percent of the 'core' of the industry. Trailbuilders, coaches, race promoters and a lot of the 'behind the scenes' folks are, but what about companies? Companies who give back, give incentives for community involvement and more.
I work for an online retailer and, to be quite frank, all I do is watch them take from the bike industry and the community members doing their best to give back; we don't invest shit back into the industry as a company, and it kills me! We need the companies cleaning up from bike sales and racer exposure to put effort back into it all.
This poll generalizes too much -- the industry is full of both doers and do-nothings, and it can be tough to tell the two apart unless you're close enough. Are we investing? Sure. In the right stuff? I dunno.
There's a lot of marketing that goes on versus a sustainable investment in the future, and that worries me, personally.
The bikes we have today range from reasonably priced and good, to stupid priced and amazing, but it does all trickle down, and the youngsters seeing pros sending massive stuff on these amazing bikes have a lot of options to get the trickled down version and try to get into it.
More often than not, I feel like the question is "where do I start?". The low cost yet capable (..enough) bikes are simply not advertised, which might be one thing bike brands could look into, but even the rich kid who gets a V10 for christmas will likely not get into it if the hill in his backyard will strictly forbid bikes in the forest.
I come from Czech republic, there is a whole lot of great trails around, but a big majority of them are secret, therefore if you are new to the sport and have no one to introduce you to a few trails, all you can do is drive 3 hours to a bikepark. That's not very encouraging, while turning on World of Warcraft is just a click away.
The thing is also that lower end components are incredible these days, look at Deore, Suntour forks. So the problem is us: We are damn spoiled, we freaking are. There are so many threads on forums where people new to the sport want to buy a new bike.
That is a bike with a halfway descent(if hard to maintain) fork, & disc brakes, for $440. That's about $360 in 2005 dollars. If you think about what $360 would get you in a bike in 2005 (here's a hint: Walmart or used,) that's absolutely incredible.
The paradigm shifts even more if you're willing to spend $800-$1000. You can truly get a bike many of us would have paid more than $1500 for(in 2005 dollars) at that price range, these days. Something that you can really learn to ride on for a few years, with no problems.
I think the constant media coverage of brands that can't hit those price-points(because, realistically, every brand that isn't Giant, Specialized, or Trek can't,) skews our perception to what's really available to someone who doesn't have our level of obsession. Our "quality floor," what we consider to be the "bottom rung" of an acceptable bike, is no longer in the same place. How many of us would own a hardtail as our only bike? Not many, I'd wager.
I helped a buddy buy a bike the other day. He got a Fuel EX 8 for $1800. You can't even buy that bike in 2005: a bike that was a competent descender, but still didn't feel like a beach ball on the climbs didn't exist!
It's not about the equipment to get new people into the sport. It's about the trails and bike parks. That is where we need the effort.
I'd also advocate for training over equipment any day.
You can take my money. I can afford my superbike, but leave the poor kids alone!
The reason I want MTBf to stay a niche community is because I feel like more people will try the sport without understanding it if it is marketed to a large range of people. Whistler altready gets complaints about A-line being "choppy" and "not flowy" from people that don't understand the sport and take their hardtails with 2" wide bars from 1992 down A-line.
I feel like if we try to expand mtb into a more mainstream sport we will end up with more of these people and it will actually end up being worse for the trails. I fear that with more people the quality of riders will go down and more and more people will start to complain that your favourite trail is "too hard" and that it needs to be toned down. We already see it now, and I fear we will just end up seeing it more and more if MTB expands too much.
I guess what I am trying to say is quality of riders>quantity of riders
But the way prices of high end bikes are going concerns me, because I wil have to buy 4 bikes in the near future in stead of only one. ....
It's a lot to ask, but I think it's really what we need to be asking for if we really want to grow the sport.
"So, the question is: Are we investing in the future or bleeding the present dry? Ten years from now, when a huge chunk of the current cash crop have left the scene, will our feasts have created a famine?"
Part one of the question is an "either or" which does not make a whole lot of sense, as you cannot choose one over the other. But it seems as though we are doing both. Just this week I see a posted video of a ten year old gapping the super jump on a scaled down Canfield full suspension, and see offerings from Commencal and Kona as well for our newer human crowd. Finally there is a safe alternative to letting your kids out the door on a Chinese made, and minimum-wage assembled tank-of-a-bicycle designed to roll to school for one season. At the same time, we the riders are allowing the manufacturers to raise the prices to new levels because we are giving them the money that they're asking. $50 to $100 per tire? $500 seat posts? Carbon fiber and integrated electronics? WE are driving the demand and leaving the business side with very little choice but to strive for the betterment of the products which WE need to remain both progressive and safe in our adventures.
Secondly, ten years from now, the current cash crop will be renewed and the limitations of the manufacturers will still remain to be driven by what we are willing to pay for their products. The question rings out as though we are going to run out of bicycles and/or people who will purchase and ride them.
In summary, I believe that we need to be smarter than this. There is no feast, and there is no famine. There is a progression of bicycles for those of us who actually NEED these tools for control and safety in our continuing adventures, which we will buy as we can afford. There will always be lesser and cheaper versions.
1) continuing to progress from a kid or,
2) starting as an adult, renting a good quality full suss.
The latter is the route i took, after being dragged along on one uplift day and renting, i was hooked, went home and starting researching bikes straight away. I shelled out £2k on a new downhill rig 3 weeks later. The shop i rented from no longer rents. Last year i dragged 2 friends along to a UK uplift venue that rented. 3 weeks later one had bought his own downhill bike. I tried to take 3 different friends to the same uplift venue a few weeks ago and was told they no longer rented. Two of the guys tried to source bikes from elsewhere to no avail. Before you all say BPW rents, yes i know, but it has been impossible to book an uplift until recently.
I understand that renting very expensive high maintenance bikes is high risk and not profitable but how can newbies be expected to spend a minimum of a grand on a good quality full suss without ever trying the sport? Uplift venues are missing out on potentially many years of repeat customers and bikes shops are missing out on years of new bikes, maintenance, parts and accessories.
Maybe the large manufacturers could work together with some of the bigger uplift venues in the UK and form symbiotic relationships that have more foresight than "we'd get +/- 10% return on our investment in 2015".
We have to give our love of mountains and passion for the sport to our children, family, friends, everybody who can accept it, so the future will be on our sight...
I love mtn biking and I do what I can to turn people on to it, but I do have to say.......the much emptier trails are a bonus.
Mountain biking is 50% trail and 50% bike, this coming up season I'm going to spent more money and time on building my own dream bike park in my woods then actually riding the bike, I think that's what's going to progress my riding skills then spending more money on my bikes.
What i think we need is more LBS's taking in second hand bikes. Buy the second hand bikes, service them, and sell them on.
Of course it's difficult to get into mtb if you're looking at buying a new bike...
Get into mtb with your walmart bike, and a basic helmet ride basic trails, get your fitness up, and while doing that save up.
Get a second hand hardtail, and ride it to bits, replace stuff when it breaks, and little by little you'll end up with a decent bike.
If going into DH buy new pads and full face.
The average trail hasn't changed THAT much in 10 years, so there's no reason why you can't pick up a 6/7 year old bike and shred the trails! (be it DH XC DJ anything!).
"Wow, you're doing a project that'll encourage new riders and progress people who already ride? We like the angle that you're self funded without any support from the industry and trying to get off the ground. We'd love to cover your story and maybe help you with some exposure for your project. You'll just need to pay for our professional photographer to come up for the day. Oh, and of course, there'll be the overnight fees too."
This activity of ours is a money and time sink, with the added "bonus" of bodily harm. That is the reason why the percentage of participation is low; it is and always will be an alternative "sport."
Also, I have faith that more industry "disruptors" like YT/Bikesdirect/Canyon will emerge to curb the tide of $10,000+ bikes. But the pool or users will more or less still be the same.
Just my opinion,
Bryan
the real auestion is what is MTB?
Society is driving comerialisim to new heights itself, the couch potato now wants to have an app to ride on the 6" fru ju bike but not earn the fitness or the skills required for such a weapon.
then theyre are the so called trails digger built wide enough to get a truck down causing more i juries to punter riders sending them to hospistal for broken collarbones wrists and such what, similar thing happend at this period in snowboarding. the punters could buy good gear wanted to ride like pros but not earn the skills through hard work years of experience of failure and success, this is the couch potato MtBer now, buy technology dumb trails down so they can make GoPro hero edits.
for new kids coming in theyre is no reason to buy new except for helmets, shoes theyre are very good second hand bikes everywhere, esspeciallfor DH, but oh no mummy and daddy go spend 10-12k look factory yet dont buy proper protection for little Johhny!
many people can ride fast today as well, but have not developed basic skill sets, bikes and trails do the work u til shit halpens and then its bit shite dodo!
this is a socitital issue not just an MtB thing,same reason people line up to have the latest ime iphone, its the c o c k head culture I call it.
Trails will never get too busy if you improve your skills to a level where you are one of the few able to ride gnarly trails, or it takes such a long time to ride uphill into a trail that few people ride it.
Either that or move to the central coast of BC. Actually don't. That's where I'm going
Why is growth in ANY sport desirable in the first place? Growth in your business I understand; there is money to be made. Wanting growth in your religion, sure; there are souls to save. But in a sport? (Yes, I get the idea that mountain biking is often claimed to be the religion that worships a the altar of single track but that is tongue-in-cheek.)
Is the growth necessary for R and D to bring us new shiny trinkets for our trusty bikes? [Disclaimer: I LOVE shiny new toys!] In my particular area of Pennsyltucky, there are actually fewer rider that I run into in the woods than there were 15+ years ago. I don't miss them.
As a rider i have to say f@$% growth!