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Brian's Day 1 Randoms - Eurobike 2023

Jun 21, 2023 at 15:49
by Brian Park  

Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
BRIAN'S DAY 1 RANDOMS
Eurobike 2023
The thumbnail is a bait and switch as we've already covered Pinion's E-Drive elsewhere, but I'm a sucker for an exploded view.


Eurobike snuck up on us this year, but we're here with a small crew to capture all the bright spandex and headset cable routing you can handle. Also I am sad to report that there are less go-karts than at the Taipei show. C'mon Frankfurt, step up your game.





Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
Grim-E Donut?

This wild Alutech Fanes eMTB was looking S L A C K at the DT Swiss booth. It's sporting DT's new F535 fork, which we'll cover in more depth soon. You've got to have a lot of faith in your CSU for a headtube-angle like that.

Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms





Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
Dirt jump bikes are still a thing, it turns out.

Rocky Mountain's new Flow

Rocky Mountain had a 2024 Flow with an updated frameset on display. The Flow has been out of the lineup for a little while, so it's nice to see it back. It doesn't officially launch for a few days, but it's now singlespeed-only, with a larger seat-tube diameter for stiffness, and an integrated chain tensioner.

Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
Clean.





Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
This Liteville 301 carbon trail bike is true to its name at 12.1kg (26.7lb).

Liteville's Portugal-made 301 CL carbon trail bike

Some might be disappointed to see Liteville straying from their light alloy roots with this new carbon trail bike, but it's actually pretty interesting. Made in Portugal carbon, with in-frame storage and a few other tricks up its sleeve. They've gone full tube in tube cable routing that doesn't go through the headset, proving that brands can go the other direction on this as well. This one had their new C30i wheelset that weighs ~1400g, has DT internals, and uses a 30mm ID.

Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
This is number one of a limited run of 200.
Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
I'm a fan of this.

Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
I'm told Liteville's unique approach to a Horst-link does not, in fact, pose any danger to your undercarriage.
Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
They borked up all that clean simplicity by licensing Canyon's KIS steering damper system. I'm still not on board, but I hear lots of riders evangelizing them.

Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
In frame storage looks nice. Two downtube bottles on larger sizes.
Details:
• With storage compartment
• Carbon frame made in Portugal
• UDH
• 130mm rear travel, 150mm front
• Frame made in Portugal
• Complete weight 12.1kg (26.7lb)






Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms

Trickstuff's 3D Printing Experiments

Trickstuff's very popular booth had some experimental titanium 3D printed parts on display. They're partnering with high-tech machine tool maker Trumpf for these experiments, and have been making a variety of things. I really liked these Piccola levers—the raw ti finish is really nice and grippy. Gram-counters will be sad to learn that they're about ~3g heavier than the carbon ones, but once they pass safety testing I'd definitely be interested in swapping them onto my brakes for the feel.

Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
Anodized titanium is always nice.
Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
The build plate for 3D printing their lever blades is very efficient with space.

Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
So grippy.
Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
Printed pedals with some generative design. Still in "messing around" stage.

The good news is that since being acquired by DT Swiss, Trickstuff has been implementing a lot of workflow changes, which has cut their lead times in half. The bad news is that it still takes about one year to get your incredibly expensive brakes.

If you don't want to wait or pay all the money, their rotors and pads continue to be good options. I've actually had a lot of success with their aftermarket pads in SRAM and Shimano brakes, if you're looking for some more bite.

Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
Always nice to see a service bench in Eurobike's sterile halls.
Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
Trickstuff's rotors and pads continue to do good business.

Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
Love the lines on this bike.

Ralf Holleis of Huhn Cycles had his personal bike on display at Trickstuff set up in shredpacking mode with a ton of 3D printed parts.

Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
More ano ti.
Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
I tried a set of these titanium 3D printed pedals and they were... not ready for prime time. But otherwise this bike is gorgeous.

Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
One more for good measure.




Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
More additive manufacturing, sorry.

Thok's new aluminum 3D printed test mule.

An envious product director from another brand mentioned Thok's new 3D printed test mule to me. Knowing the struggles product managers go through to create rideable samples, his envy makes sense.

Thok is using Belgian company Materialise to print selective laser melted aluminum test mules for their next eMTB. The front triangle is printed in two pieces and then welded together, and owner Stefano Migliorini showed me some videos of himself riding it properly. The process makes a bike that's likely heavy, expensive, and nowhere near suitable for production, but it's a huge help to have a sample that looks and feels so close to what you've designed.

Thok's upcoming eMTB release will be a lightweight e-bike, with interchangeable battery and the new Bosch SX motor. The geometry and frame ID is all locked in now, they're just making some decisions on which style of battery to use.

Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
See? That wasn't so hard was it?
Eurobike 2023 - Day 1 Randoms
Printed motor cover too.





My goal is to feature zero additive manufacturing in tomorrow's post. Stay tuned to watch me fail my own test.

Author Info:
brianpark avatar

Member since Dec 29, 2010
216 articles

66 Comments
  • 31 0
 So does this mean Levy failed to predict the geometry of bikes in 2030 because that geometry is already happening? He only managed to see 3 years into the future, not 10! Anyone coulda done it!
  • 42 0
 Who's this "Levy" you speak of? Never heard of him.....
  • 19 0
 @FatTonyNJ: they make jeans - you've probably owned a pair back in the day....
  • 7 1
 Seriously where is Levy? Is he on a break or no longer with PB?
  • 2 0
 @FatTonyNJ: there ain't no Levy and there never was!
  • 3 2
 @NomadNinja: he's just taking time off.

As for geometry predictions, Levy is a time-travelling UFO who disrupted the the mutable timeline, so of course the future is already here.
  • 31 0
 Liteville 301 aka the Ball snatcher 6000 (TM)
  • 5 0
 I never owned a liteville but tested some. Never came near the rocker link with any body parts…
  • 12 0
 @drjohn: some of us hang lower than others
  • 2 0
 Definitely not one to use for the next World Naked Bike Ride...
  • 1 0
 @sancho-ramerez: Some of "us" would like to think so!
  • 25 0
 new rocky flow looks really nice
  • 7 0
 Liteville did not have to license KIS as it was joint development by Syntace and Canyon.
  • 2 0
 I'm still confused. How does a spring act as a damper? It can be a stabilizer, but I can't see it perform damping duties.
  • 3 0
 @vinay:

Not a damper
  • 1 0
 @Swingset: Yeah, hence the question. The author calls it a "KIS steering damper system" and I'm trying to understand where the term comes from.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: well it just isn’t a damper so every time someone says that they are just using the wrong word. Motos use steering dampers so maybe people keep getting confused about what sport they are doing. Can’t blame them this thing confuses me, why does it exist?
  • 2 0
 @sudochuckwalla: Alright, we agree it is just a pair of springs and no damper. Anyway, one comparison I can make is with commuter bikes with a front rack. There are two common approaches to keep the handlebar from flipping around when it is on the kickstand and you need to secure your shopping bag on said rack. One is to have some integrated resistance in the headset that keeps it from rotating. If you accidentally ride away while it is engaged, it will slip but with a rattling sound to warn you. And some of these do actually release the lock if you do that. One other system which I currently have is that there is indeed a spring which pulls the back of the fork crown towards the downtube. You won't notice while riding but it is enough to keep the front wheel in check. Maybe this is just the goal. So that you can attach a basket to your handlebar and rescue E.T.
  • 1 0
 Re license: I'm aware that Syntace was involved, but in speaking with the folks at the booth they referred to it as "licensed from Canyon" several times. May have been a mix-up with my rudimentary German though.

Re not a damper: I'm just old and everything is a Hopey Steering Damper.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: Cheers, all good. Impressed that you as a Canadian already possess some rudimentary German. I can only talk German but not understand it. And when I do talk German, my girlfriend can't stop laughing and asks me to stop. Which implies I'm afraid it is not really good. And I've had this stuff at school! So I absolutely appreciate you wrote the article. You don't want to see what I would have created based on my conversations in German.
  • 5 0
 That Moorhuhn is still lovely.
  • 5 0
 That Alutech headtube is the fugliest thing I’ve ever seen.
  • 4 4
 There are two Alutech bikes in the article. The slacked out Fanes and the ICB2.0 with the subscript "Love the lines on this bike". Feel free to hate on both of those if you just came here to hate.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: Thats a Huhn Cycles 129 Ti I believe not a Alutech. huhncycles.com/BIKES/HUHN-129-Ti
  • 1 0
 @paulskibum: Yeah, I noticed after an other comment under this same thread. I'm surprised he makes no mention of the ICB2.0 as he is indeed free to use the design considering it it is an open source design, even though the design was guided by Alutech at the time. Alex Clauss from Portus Cycles also made his variation in steel even though he does mention where the design comes from. I left the comment as it was as it feels silly to comment right after my own comment (though maybe I should have) and because for the context of the discussion it doesn't really matter. This is pretty much what the Alutech bike looks like. But yeah, maybe I should take something back, so here goes.

@Jaylynx : Sorry, I overreacted. It is me, not you. I have this condition where I'm really bad at dealing politely with people who come in and bluntly judge someones hard work just on looks alone. I understand you've been shielded and protected from everything that looked less pretty than the headtube of this bike and could have shown more compassion with what you've been going through. I'm sorry for that and I take back what I said in my initial response. I shouldn't have reacted like that. Please express yourself whichever way truly suits you. I won't interfere anymore, I promise. It is important for you and it makes you shine the way you truly are. Shine on bright diamond, shine on!
  • 1 0
 @vinay: The Huhn looks like a single pivot design to me (I am not an exprt) I am not sure what you think they should reference the Alutech bike and I have never heard of the ICB2.0 - I was just correcting your statement that a very pretty Ti bike was in any way related to that red pig.
  • 4 0
 Levy's Day 1 randoms coming up next...
  • 4 1
 I want 3D printed ti cranks, like those sram prototypes!
  • 5 0
 I made some additive manufactured cranks:

www.instagram.com/p/CF1tkkvHPLX
  • 1 0
 @eddlessride: Did you ever sell them?
  • 4 0
 @Davichin: no, too busy with my real job, still riding them though. :-)
  • 1 0
 @eddlessride: how much did they end up weighing? What would the retail price have to be to make it a viable product?
  • 4 0
 Sturdy cycles in the UK make some. I am sure they would customise for mtb.
  • 1 1
 Why?

Outside of prototyping or making custom parts, there is no real reason to prefer additive tech to forging.
  • 1 1
 @opignonlibre: Right, and for sure forging strongly strength the material, not sure for 3D printing....
  • 3 0
 @opignonlibre: firstly my cranks are hollow, which (with the exception of Shimano) forged cracks aren't.

Additive manufacturing allowed me to optimise the wall thickness of the cranks using finite element analysis (FEA). This means that they're strong where they need to be, but you don't have excess material (mass) where you don't need it.
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: both cranks were just under 150g each (drive and non-drive side are slightly different.
www.instagram.com/p/CHzoCijHvNA

Overall weight was around 420g as I never really optimised the axle (I was in a rush to get them on my bike and thought I'd come back to it but never did).

Price would need to be something similar to the Cane Creek addictive manufactured ebike eewings (although I haven't seriously looked at costs since the high inflation of 2022 and 2023).
  • 1 0
 @opignonlibre: there's also a break even point with AM. If you plan to produce under a certain amount, it is not only cheaper but faster to use AM. Then you also get the benefit of iterative design. You aren't locked into your current design as much and as problems crop up, you can pivot much faster. Large runs make more sense with traditional manufacturing methods for sure though
  • 1 0
 @eddlessride:

A bit of hollow crank forging history here.
TH Industries/FSA was the first to do a hollow cold forged 7005 series alloy rather than the standard 6000 series (Gravity Light 7005).
Very expensive process and at the time 60% stiffer than Saints.
If you are a fan of cold forged parts it would be great to see this process carried on and perfected.
  • 1 0
 @NWintheUSA: do you have more details of the TH Industries/ FSA cranks.

I thought the first were Shimano XTR M950 in 1995 (which were admittedly a two piece construction). I think the XT M750 crankset from 1998 may have been the first one piece hollow forged cranks (for mountain bikes - I'm not so good on road bikes).
  • 3 0
 Grim-E Donut - Ducati SuperSport 950 Edition?
  • 2 1
 Could we start numbering the photos for ease of reference?
Because I think the 3D printed pedals in photo 21 (not including the banner) have an old Speedplay Magnums vibe.
  • 1 0
 Going from those gorgeous trickstuff brake levers and incredible bike to that.... Thock... was startling to say the least. NSFW warning next time please?
  • 1 1
 "I'm told Liteville's unique approach to a Horst-link does not, in fact, pose any danger to your undercarriage."

The unique part has nothing to do with horst-link. It could be used on almost any linkage driven design.
  • 1 0
 that liteville is really impressively light with real maxxis tires, the heavy electronic derailer and added springs in the top tube. I wanna know the frame weight
  • 1 0
 Slacker than a substitute teacher going through a divorce as Henry would say
  • 1 0
 I used to have a Rocky Mountain Flow FS in the 2000s (before it was renamed the Slayer). Very nice bike.
  • 2 0
 GrimE Donut = pronounced grimy.
  • 1 0
 RE: Trickstuff pads. Where to find them in the US? Not having any luck doing so.
  • 1 0
 Just order from Germany or get MYX or Galfer, which are also great
  • 1 0
 I was sat by our 3D printer today. Good lord....it is such a slow, tedious way to make a thing.
  • 1 1
 you can clearly see THOK is not made y riders.. Less rotors and less robust caliper on rear? Its the other way a round nowdays. especially on ebikes.
  • 1 0
 The owner, Stefano, took 3rd in the overall of the 1993 World Cup DH, and has a bunch of top-10s to his name. He also won a BMX world cup when he was younger. www.thokbikes.com/en/stefano-migliorini
  • 1 0
 That Trickstuff 3D printed pedal in the middle looks like its made from wire
  • 2 0
 I've convinced the guys from Trumpf to make me a set.
  • 1 0
 Any info about the FSA wheels pictured on the THOK?
  • 1 0
 That was fun to read Brian
  • 1 0
 Those lines seem a little baggy to me...
  • 1 0
 How to make a Liteville bikes even more unattractive
  • 2 1
 love the levers but Trumpf is about as unfortunate a name as Tacky Chan.
  • 1 0
 I still have a C-shaped scar in my chest from getting stabbed by my brake lever. I'm sure these from Trickstuff will go a little deeper, snap off somewhere and the rest will come out reaming the edge so that I can try to fix it with a big tire plugger. Indeed, I prefer to wait after safety testing too but I can't see myself put these on my bike to test for "feel".
  • 1 0
 That liteville is stunning. Top of my want but can’t afford list
  • 1 0
 Looking for sex without commitmentwrite to me ➤ u.to/mWPGHw
  • 1 0
 Is Levy there?
  • 10 1
 By now I think it's clear that Levy probably died in a downcountry crash and the PB staff is just covering it up by saying he is "busy eating donuts at the moment" or whatever they can come up with.
  • 2 2
 The grim donette







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