How Much Do Professional Mountain Bikers Get Paid? - Pinkbike's State of the Sport Survey

Jan 24, 2023 at 15:43
by Christie Fitzpatrick  
Welcome to the 2023 Pinkbike State of the Sport Survey. This anonymous survey is designed to help shed light on key issues affecting the professional field and elite competition. We surveyed the best riders in the world to hear their thoughts, ideas, concerns, and criticisms on mountain biking as we go into 2023, all in an anonymous format. To read the introduction to the survey click here, and to see all the other currently published SOTS articles click here.




In some major sports such as soccer, Formula One, or even road cycling, athletes' salaries are common knowledge and published annually. In mountain biking, athletes’ salaries are often shrouded in mystery. How much a rider gets paid can be an elusive number that is hard to decipher as a ‘salary’ is often a medley of bonuses, prize money and sponsorship fees.

To try and get a better picture of how much riders are earning, we included remuneration as a section of our State of the Sport survey.

Rhys Verner started the weekend in 5th and would finish just one spot back in 6th another strong race for the young Canadian.


Mountain Biker’s Salaries Vary Wildly

The largest group of riders surveyed (23.3%) revealed they earned just $0 - $5,000 USD per annum from mountain biking, with the second largest segment - 18% - making between $50,000 - $100,000 USD. We also know that 19.1% of riders don't get paid at all.

67% of mountain bikers in our survey earn less than $50,000 USD per year, and for 55.3% of all riders, this makes up their full income (i.e., they do not have another job to support themselves). But how much of this income is dependent on results, sponsorships, and prize money?


Salaries Aren’t Guaranteed

Mountain bikers' salaries often vary wildly from paycheck to paycheck. Most pro riders are entitled to some sort of base salary, but they are incentivized to increase their pay through other means. Of all the riders surveyed, just 19.6% were able to earn a full living from a concrete mountain biking salary, without having to supplement it with another income source.

Overall, 61.2% of riders stated that they relied on good race or event results for their livelihood. Another 29.7% told us that less than 20% of their income is guaranteed, and the majority of riders having approximately 60-80% of their income solidified from mountain biking. This means in total, over 80% of riders have to have a second income stream after their take-home salary (but for most riders, this income stream is still in the industry of mountain biking).

Possibly as a response to this financial instability, 28.5% of survey participants outwardly disagreed that the need to be aligned with a brand’s ethics and beliefs to accept sponsorship or support from said brand. 61.8% of participants believe that they must create content to maintain their income.

Forget the result sheet the real winner according to her peers was Andreane Lanthier Nadeau. riding in pain with massive injury she was 7 seconds up going into the final stage before distastes struck

Despite the Financial Sacrifice, Most Athletes Think They are Paid Fairly

43.4% of riders believed they made sacrifices to their education to prioritize their riding and get to where they are now. 31.6% of riders said that they believe that they are paid unfairly, with the remaining 68.4% agreeing or remaining neutral to the statement that they are paid fairly for what they do. For some, being paid to ride your bike remains a dream job. Perhaps they may be willing to give up a higher salary in exchange for the lifestyle of a professional athlete.

For those who feel underpaid, lack of social media following was cited as the main reason, followed closely by poor contracts. 90.1% of riders believe that results are the main reason for a rider to be well paid, however only 8% think that lack of results are a reason for their own underpayment. Having a large social media following and inherent marketability (based on factors other than riding) were cited as the main reasons for riders to be well paid. 37.5% of riders also believe that the amount you earn has no reflection on how good a rider you are.

We asked our riders what they believe their sponsors value the most in an athlete, and the majority of them (57%) said that it was consistent results in their chosen discipline. A further 17.2% of riders said it was good one-off results in their chosen discipline. If there was ever an insight into how nerves can impact an athlete's performance, this is it. Almost 75% of athletes will be trying to justify their wage in the start gate, and they generally have less than one opportunity per month to do so over the course of a year.

Jess Blewitt will be looking to end her season on a high.

There Is a Gender Pay Gap in Mountain Biking, and the Women Know It

The data shows that a whopping 63.5% of professional women surveyed made less than $20,000 USD in earnings from mountain biking last year. 33% of those females made less than $5,000 USD, compared to just 16% of men. Over one-fifth of male athletes reported making over $100,000 USD, compared to just 6% of women. For the most part, female pro mountain bikers' pay tops out at about $50,000 - $100,000 (only 4 reported earning over 100K), while some of the top paid men earned significantly more than that. This displays a much lower ceiling than the men’s category.

This won’t come as a surprise to the women; more than half the women surveyed responded ‘strongly agree’ to the statement ‘there is a gender pay gap in mountain biking.’ Another 30.8% responded ‘agree,’ putting the total agree answers to 83.1%. These women estimated that they make 30-50% less than their male counterparts, and the comparison chart above shows this to be relatively accurate.




314 Comments

  • 137 0
 Okay who tf is the one dude getting paid over 500k
  • 99 8
 Gwin! You see his house and cars
  • 26 20
 I think its probably Emil Johansson
  • 12 1
 @beeboo: House(s)
  • 31 0
 @beeboo: We also saw him sell his house...
  • 36 0
 Gotta be Super Bruni...right?
  • 66 3
 In a video released by RedBull in 2020, downhill legend Aaron Gwin claimed that in a good year, he could be collecting around $1 million, taking into account all the prize money for winning races and personal sponsorships, on top of his primary contract with the team.
  • 12 7
 @jpjpj: This is I believe only accounting for salary - not outside endorsements. Gwin at the moment - for the last few years hasn't had the luster of Bruni or now a Pierron or the staying power of Minnaar.
  • 14 5
 @JibbyTheScout: f*ck me you might be right. Something is broken if he's getting paid more than Nino, Bruni, etc
  • 57 0
 ok ill own up
  • 8 11
 gwin makes over a mil
  • 30 0
 Its me, its ok everyone, no need for applause.
  • 9 6
 Richie Rude!! He racks in all that Dental money!! Why do you think he loves ADA soo much Wink
  • 7 1
 Nino?
  • 7 1
 MInnar
  • 12 0
 I suspect most of the best who didn’t bother completing the survey
  • 3 3
 @ViolaVesperlin: And it had appreciated something like $1,000,000+. Gotta have money to make money as they say.
  • 21 0
 Ratboy
  • 17 5
 @neimbc: gwin's role is also not a standard sponsorship. He runs the intense DH racing team and ran the Mob before that. Bruni and pierron i would think are both over over 500 as well.

Nino and lots more euro XC stars make good money. MVDP clears a few million I am sure. PFP, Yolanda Neff, maybe even kate courtney are likely clearing 3-400k. As well they should btw as thats still less than half the NFL MINIMUM.
  • 23 0
 @jtorrento: Pauline Ferrand-Prevot was definitely hustling this year, hope she got paid accordingly.

4 rainbow jerseys for PVP, like working 4 jobs.
  • 17 1
 @jtorrento: Comparing bikes to the NFL is pointless. Not remotely close in any measurable way.
  • 3 0
 @jtorrento: martin whiteley ran yt mob.
  • 4 0
 @ViolaVesperlin: Either Bruni, Gwin, or Minnaar. I bet dudes like Fabio are rolling in the big bucks as well.
  • 12 9
 @beeboo: brother sells bikes. I have it on real good authority that Intense sales are up over 50% after he came on board. He single handedly put YT on the map!

seems like a f*cking bargain really. in the biggest market in America(Cali.) and America being far and away the biggest market in the world, it would behoove a Califronia company to have the most famous Californian MTB of all time on their team.

also, he owns part of Intense, so he is making a lot more than his racing salary. lol
  • 1 3
 @ViolaVesperlin: and buy a bigger one.
  • 5 7
 @mobiller: why. he sells more bikes than those two guys. Everyone realizes that racers are salesman first, yeah?
  • 5 0
 @mobiller: he may still be, given the number and different types of deals he's done. If anything, I'd love to see Gwin start teaching new riders (and not so new ones too looking at the dire general state of earnings) his business model, how to value themselves, structure deals and negotiate. As Wyn Masters said on one of the other SOTS threads, the earning window as a pro athlete is short so they need to maximise, invest well and build something for after racing is done. Gwin, Minaar, Hill, Vouilloz, Barel all seem like they've built good financial security - hopefully they don't remain a minority in future years.
  • 4 5
 Kerr I would think. Manager and rider
  • 1 0
 @neimbc: Luster =/= pay
  • 3 0
 Greg Minnaar, Aaron Gwin, and Ritchie Rude.
  • 6 0
 Nino
  • 2 1
 @endorium: + his youtube and KTM sponsorship
  • 2 0
 @tommyriddle: Minnaar didn't take part in the survey. He also makes most of his money completely unrelated to bikes.
  • 4 1
 @moondustdictator: what about Hill?

Arguably more successful in terms of overall titles than Gwin.
  • 1 1
 @bananowy: says who? Just because there is no african participation. I was thinking about that too. But perhaps he wanted to be more under the radar and identified himself as european (doesn't he have a house in Andorra?)
  • 3 3
 I'd assume its mostly the top 5 guys from Enduro/DH, then the social media wild cards with huge followings. Think Remy Mettalier, Fabio Wilmer, or Yoann Barelli.
  • 1 8
flag XCplease (Feb 1, 2023 at 9:20) (Below Threshold)
 @ViolaVesperlin: it isn't like working 4 jobs at all goober
  • 3 0
 In 2021 Matt jones made over a mil from socials and contracts.
  • 5 0
 I just read the intro article that's linked in this one and when it breaks out the participants, ~91% are from XC, EWS and DH and the remainder are "from a mix of slopestyle, freeride and media athletes".

Fabio, Danny Mac, Sam Pilgrim and Matt Jones would fall into that latter category.
  • 3 0
 @endorium: It's been said that Kerr has "outside funding".
  • 2 0
 The one thing that MTB lacks and I wish Pinkbike had polled riders on: Do you have an agent?

It's stated over and over in other sports that salaries leak to the public because agents are intelligent (not stupid).
They will "leak" a client's salary to aid the negotiations for their other clients.

@captain23 at one point represented GM, Gwin & others (I assume in the capacity of sports marketing agent) but never heard him leaking it to the public as a strategy.

With some salaries having escalated, I'd be curious to know WHY there are relatively few...if any....agents for hire in the MTB industry?
  • 2 0
 @bikerbarrett: Sagan (5.5M(E)), Pidcock (4M$) and MVDP (2M(E))
  • 1 1
 ok, I'll admit it. It's me.
  • 1 0
 @blowmyfuse: There are agents, in fact one of them has a good podcast and was Gwin's (Houseman)
  • 1 0
 @jgainey: I'd have to ask Big House on that one. I don't recall him getting a percentage of negotiated contracts being mentioned. Big House is a smart guy though and worked with/at Hookit.com, the athlete marketing platform, at the time he helped AG out. Something tells me his position with Hookit at the time would have had language that prevented him from getting a kickback or contract fees from athletes on their platform.

But I'm not dismissing it either.

Question is...if AG was using Big House as an agent in the monetary sense, are others using agents? Is Houseman still acting as an agent on behalf of other athletes. What sports marketing companies out there HAVE mountain bike athletes in their client list?

Maybe Jim Halpert and AthLeap, a subsidiary of Adidas, have a roster of MTB athletes???
  • 5 1
 please don't forget semenuk
  • 1 0
 @jgainey: paging @richhouseman to the white courtesy phone.

Any chance you'd weigh in on agents and if they are playing a role in pro MTB and if so what role you see them taking in the future? I'll give you a virtual Beer if you chime in.
  • 2 0
 Probably Pilgrim, and some others that don't depend directly on competitions.
  • 3 3
 Ask Chappetta….she knows everything.
  • 69 3
 If youre not some famous rider automaticly getting a job after the racing career is over, it doesnt look so great.
35-40 years old with no significant savings/assets and no experience in a "real job" / being out of said job for 15 years isnt that great of a place to be.
  • 59 8
 Its basically the place most people in society are in.
  • 49 45
 @HB208: Yeah if you suck at society-ing
  • 37 2
 Most 35-40 year olds have completed some kind of formal training and 10-15 years of experience in their field. Those are the most sought after employees.
  • 51 111
flag scott-townes (Jan 31, 2023 at 11:45) (Below Threshold)
 Yeah but they're still doing a lot better than those who graduate with a masters in BS majors like gender studies or liberal arts.
  • 134 5
 @scott-townes: Oh the irony. The pro athlete is no different from the artist. Both perform non essential jobs to entertain the masses.
We could just rationalize them away together with arcitecture, cooking, music and many more. We then spend our lives in concrete boxes, eat porridge and work for 12 hours a day, because there is nothing else to do.
You dont care about art and someone else doesnt care about mtb. Just let people live.

/end of social critique
  • 9 2
 @nskerb: Its not the place I am in. But if you look around, its where most people are.
  • 2 2
 @HB208: American society
  • 8 3
 @endoplasmicreticulum: i don't think @scott-townes was talking about art/entertainment, because people willingly watch movies/sports, listen to the music, etc.

i'd say he was referring to people with degrees that can't get them jobs outside of "non-profits" and other govt/ESG bureaucracy positions where there is no demand for "work" they do, only supply.

when they don't get that kind of job, they end up serving coffee or flipping burgers
  • 3 2
 @nskerb: that seems like a bad take.
  • 4 2
 @kokofosho: It is a bad take to think that somebody who is 35-40 should have some amount of savings/assets and experience at "real job"?
  • 3 0
 @scott-townes: damn, -55 downvotes.
  • 4 4
 @hypa: Yeah man, this imaginary point system with zero implications is SO rough. All it does is show how many people are pathetic enough to feel the need to vote on posts. lololol
  • 2 0
 @nskerb: Many would eventually like to settle down and have a family. Thats expensive. Youre not going to have children way past 40, at least as a woman, and men are typically just a little bit older than their wives, so in essence it applies to men and women equally.

If children, eventual retirement and maybe a house to call your own arent your cup of tea, youre doing just fine.

So no, you dont need to be "set" at 40. I think in most cases its simply a question of one door closing and another one opening.
  • 3 0
 @scott-townes: You wouldnt have complained about upvotes...
  • 1 3
 @endoplasmicreticulum: I don't care about an imaginary point system like you weirdos. It literally doesn't matter.
  • 1 3
 @endoplasmicreticulum: upvotes are rational. Downvotes are meaningless.
  • 2 0
 @endoplasmicreticulum: I mean I don't really care what anybody does but giving slightly more than bare minimum effort when you're young makes life significantly less difficult when you're 40, 50, 60. If you don't start trying to set yourself up at least a little bit in life until you're 40 you'll probably be stuck working well into your 70's.

At least in America it basically works that way. I cannot comment on Germany, I'm not very well traveled lol.
  • 1 3
 @scott-townes: watch out bro, ze german dude is super woke. Hahaha!
  • 51 2
 Stay in school kids.
  • 63 11
 as I told my oldest son when he was 18 and planning to go to school for "outdoor recreation" so he could snowboard and mountain bike his life away....
"Go to school for a career that will pay you enough so you can go snowboard at Baldface and ride one of your Yetis in Durango when you feel like having a vacation." He graduated college and is one test away from his CPA license and already making more than $80K a year at 24. We are going to Moab in April....

School pays. go to school. I was an idiot and didn't go back until I was in my 40's. In less than 6 years I quadrupled my yearly income.

Go to school
Go to school
  • 46 1
 @like2pedal: I don’t disagree, but I’ll just say this: skill pays, not school. Your son had a lot of classmates that went to school with him without developing any skill. School or not, develop an employable skill and you can afford to live the lifestyle you want.
  • 22 0
 @Hayek: I have a lot of friends that got into trades that would laugh at my salary as a software engineer. I get the remote work win tho, I can schedule work around riding and skiing
  • 6 0
 @like2pedal: This is kinda true. But only half. If you get the idea of working for others out of your head, you can quadruple your yearly income just by working for yourself. Create your own work/jobs/employment/companies for the other half. Now you have done two things that most people will not do, and you will get paid like it too.

The next step is to create companies using skills that not many are willing to get (first two tricks) and then sell these companies. (Third trick) Most people put their heart and soul into their baby company and are unwilling to sell it and let it grow up and move out of the house. This makes you the most money.

So 3 things that people are generally unwilling to do. Go to school. Start your own company. Sell companies. You'll get a lot of haters but also a lot more time on a bike/skis/climbing on your way to early retirement.




This works if you skip the first school step too. Do the work others are unwilling to do, start a trades company in a town nobody services, employ lots of guys, do it again in another town. etc.
  • 10 0
 Go get a trade, like plumbing, or electrical, or framing.
With a world moving closer and closer to computerization, and automation, we will need people to be able to install, troubleshoot, and fix things.
It doesn’t matter how much of our world moves to electronically integration, people still need heat in their homes, they still need bathrooms, and they still need lights…
  • 1 0
 @onawalk: …and then come work for me!
  • 1 0
 @Hayek: That is a fantastic point and very true. Going to school, learning a trade, or riding a mountain bike only pays when you have developed skills.
  • 2 0
 @onawalk: Absolutely a great path to success as well. I did remodeling for 10 years. Those skills are very valuable.
  • 2 0
 @Jvisscher: Great minds think alike. Currently working on trick #2 with trick #3 the end goal.
  • 3 4
 @like2pedal: hahahaha your son went and became an accountant after you preached life balance / flexibility? That’s humorous.

If you’re going to work that hard, may as well do something where you’re likely to make more $$$. CPAs are overworked and underpaid.

My friend has been at E&Y for 15yrs and works like a dog. Makes ok money, but I still out earn him by a factor of 3, and have ultimate flexibility (CRE consulting).

RIP your son’s young adult life.
  • 2 0
 @nvranka: I make solid money as a CPA and work around 40 hours a week. It was a grind early on but its not any longer.
  • 2 0
 @nvranka: HAHAHA you are correct. If you are insane enough to work at a big 4 you will be ground into dust. If you are smart enough to start at a big 4, get them to pay for the exam, get a bonus for passing the exams, get 4 years of experience, get management experience and then exit to go pursue a softer career.....you will be ahead. I have a CPA license a sweet job and a ton of freedom. It's all about what you choose. He will be fine. Sorry to hear your buddy is still being bamboozled in a big 4, not like he doesn't have a plethora of other options though.
  • 1 0
 @HB208: heck yeah! I never work more than 40, and I am at home half the time working remote...drinking too much coffee in PJs.
  • 1 0
 @like2pedal: I work full time remote. Honestly, I don't care that some people have it better because I have it pretty good.
  • 1 0
 @like2pedal: dang! Good job, what did you do before hand and what’s your degree in?
  • 3 1
 @like2pedal: He’s lucky to have a dad with a brain. Cheers
  • 41 14
 Evidently the "gender pay gap" people haven't seen Bill Burr go full scorched earth on this... www.youtube.com/watch?v=I745Ajeq_B8
  • 21 31
flag wburnes (Jan 31, 2023 at 11:36) (Below Threshold)
 Good bit, but he's actually wrong about studies showing women being smarter than men. While girls have an IQ advantage over boys, men have an IQ advantage over women, in addition to all of the extreme outlier high (and low) IQ being men. Interestingly, while there aren't super smart women, there also aren't any naturally super dumb women (women are tightly clustered around the center of the bell curve).
  • 17 6
 OK now explain that pay gap in any career that doesn't sell tickets (please don't, it's a rhetorical statement)
  • 8 1
 @agmin: Google “Freakonomics Uber Gender pay gap study episode”.

This was the most compelling and insightful thing I’ve heard on the subject. I know it sounds unrelated to pro mountain biking, but it wouldn’t take much imagination to see the parallels.
  • 5 4
 @agmin: 1% at most, which I'll call equal
  • 4 3
 Absolutely hilarious.
  • 21 29
flag ridedigrepeat (Jan 31, 2023 at 14:18) (Below Threshold)
 Seems like pinkbike needs to do a proper article on the gender pay gap so MTB bros can stop kneeling in front of their bill burr posters at night with their mouths open.
  • 5 8
 @bonkmasterflex: hope she sees this
  • 18 8
 @bonkmasterflex: shilling in the chat section of PB won't get you laid.
  • 11 1
 @bonkmasterflex: Seems to me that Pinkbike needs an article on the economics of wage differentials for people that don't understand the underlying concepts.
  • 3 1
 @agmin: It's the same as selling tickets here instead it's just bikes and products. Not sure what you are trying to say.
  • 4 3
 @bonkmasterflex: it seems logic, rationality and common sense economics are no match for your "feelings"
  • 6 0
 @mrosie: long commute these days and i was out of podcasts, so i gave that one a whirl. the thing that was annoying is that they really didnt want to say the what the study showed ... the pay gap was based on time on the job.

one thing that i would like to see is salary vs lap times. that would shine a light on how performance reflects pay or if it really does.
  • 8 2
 @mobil1syn: I love that you bring this up. I couldn’t agree more.

They were just dancing around the obvious conclusion, the pay gap is not based on discrimination or anything nefarious…. Then at they end they ask, what should be done about it?? …I remember yelling at my car stereo, “NOTHING, YOU IDIOTS!! Your own research concludes the system is working exactly how it’s supposed to!

Anyway, I’m glad you were able to read between the lines, even though they wouldn’t state the obvious. At least the show made it clear what’s actually happening.
  • 3 0
 @mrosie: oh i yelled at them a few times. at any rate thanks for the recommendation, in typical fashion i will definitely be spending some time in the freakomics rabbit hole for a while on my commute home.
  • 2 0
 @mobil1syn: You’re very welcome!
  • 3 2
 And here I was thinking that multivariate analysis was going to be enough. That science hogwash doesn't have sh8t on Bill Burr!
  • 5 2
 @JohanG: replication crisis, political motivation, funding dependent on affirming liberal narratives. At this point, if it doesn't have illiberal political implications you should assume it's false until proven otherwise
  • 1 3
 @wburnes: Says the guy who's stupider than most women! Dumbass strikes out with made up bullshit, again.

Good luck ever getting laid incel...
  • 1 3
 @danger13: Trust me, getting laid is really not that hard if you work out a lot, and are decent at taking pictures. My intelligence is in the superior or very superior range, but that's not actually relevant. It's not made up, what I said is a summary of decades of intelligence research. The findings are consistent.

Re-reading your comment, I'm not sure if it's satire or not
  • 1 2
 @wburnes: funniest comment ever. Have a upvote.
  • 38 11
 Not much that I as a male consumer can do to correct the gender pay gap is there? Buy Juliana bikes instead of SC?
  • 35 82
flag vikb (Jan 31, 2023 at 10:11) (Below Threshold)
 Sure there is. Contact the brand of bike you ride and ask them if they pay men and women employees/racers the same. Let them know you care about that and it will factor into your purchasing decisions.
  • 108 4
 @vikb: sure, I'll get on the phone right away with Trek and tell them to smarten up. or else
  • 7 0
 @lwk: they pay equal at their CX event they sponsor.
But Vali Höll does ride for Rock Shox Trek not the other way around.
However they do have plenty of female representation on their other teams, XC, CX, Road and Tri. Jolanda Neff came out last year and said she felt well supported by Trek.
  • 19 23
flag IntoTheEverflow (Jan 31, 2023 at 11:00) (Below Threshold)
 As a (male) consumer what you can do is watch the women's races.
I usually only watch the fastest run, so I know I am part of the problem.
  • 54 3
 @IntoTheEverflow: You are not a part of the problem for deciding what you do and do not want to watch. I'm assuming you're simply a dude with x amount of time in the day and you probably wish you had more. It is crazy to me that outside influences make us feel like we are culpable for issues 100% outside of our control. Nobody is holding a gun to a riders head telling them to compete for any amount of money, it just is what it is.
  • 89 25
 There is no gender pay gap. Pros are essentially paid on commission for how much product they move. Minaar, Bruni, and Gwin move the most product and get paid the most. End of story.
  • 18 8
 @hamncheez: 100% on point.
  • 5 1
 @nskerb: I probably should have written "problem".
I watch what I want to watch and I don't feel obliged to keep anyone in business.

I do however think that reluctantly watching the women's races is a far better option than contacting the brand and telling them how to spend their money.
  • 32 15
 @vikb: No offence but the women’s event at a World Cup only has like 14 racers in the Elite category. I’m more likely to ring up and demand they’re paid less.
  • 10 2
 @IntoTheEverflow: Is it wrong to just watch the things I want to watch? I’m a pretty simple person — primarily driven by my interests and not driven by my non-interests.
  • 6 1
 @IntoTheEverflow: you know how little badminton players get paid??? man I can’t believe you only watch the final. do better

/s
  • 3 0
 @vikb: Which brand did you call and hold accountable in regard to this? Have they followed through? Which brand has earned your loyalty in this respect.
  • 11 3
 @vikb: nauseatingly virtuous everywhere you post eh mate?
  • 11 2
 You get paid for demand. People just don't care about women's sports. Like NBA. WNBA is operating at a loss it's not making money it's losing money.
  • 28 6
 It is unfortunate to see that people are still pushing gender paygap myth. Like other things in life, there is no gender pay gap. People get paid the money they bring in. Fact of the matter is that in most sports, men sports get more viewership, more sponsorship, and therefore more money for the male athletes. There are sports such as gymnastics and volleyball where women make more money than men - And that is no gender pay gap either. Just people getting paid what they deserve. You don't have an inherent right to make the same money as another person or group you say you want to make the same money as. You only deserve the money you bring in as an athlete. This is why DH racers make more money than bike polo players or bike trials riders. Same goes for gender.
  • 10 2
 @BikeTrials: Stop it with your reason and logic. Big Grin I will await my inevitable downvotes
  • 9 11
 @BikeTrials: I'd agree when it comes to professional sports, but in the real work world, where the vast majority of us are employed, a pay gap still exists. My wife works in a male dominated field and is a supervisor and a company principal. She has insight into the pay in her company and can see the disparity. She is often the most experienced and knowledgeable person in the room and is typically demanded to be a PM on jobs by clients, but not necessarily the highest paid person in the room.
  • 15 3
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps:
Does she have access to any other info other than the genitals of people between their legs and the pay? Pay is determined by many factors such as hours worked, work experience, education, job performance, and even how often raises are discussed with the employers.
There is no gender paygap that is supported by actual data and logic other than to say "average pay for women is less!" (Without considering job choices, hours worked).
Companies are trying to cut cost where they can as much as possible to compete, if they can get away with paying women less, they would just hire more women but it isn't the case.
  • 13 3
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: Really? What field does she work in? Lets start a firm, hire only women, and we can save 30% on payroll alone! Plus we can get all the good will and ESG investment for not hiring men! We would dominate the market!

Oh wait, if that was possible it would already happen, until things normalized, and wages would equal out.
  • 10 1
 @hamncheez: already been done. A woman in the UK started a firm of only women. She wrote a book after she went out of business. Called how women destroyed her business.
  • 4 3
 @Diesel2007: I read that article. My feelings were deeply hurt, so I posted some of the wok3st articles and comments on the internet that I could muster. I felt much better afterwards and was offered a job at the FBI to suppress free speech on tech platforms, which I immediately accepted. It feels so good to cancel people; I have found my life calling. Thanks, USA.
  • 1 2
 @hamncheez: hmmmmm, representation matters. There’s never an “end of story” like you just put out a cigarette and the discussion is over.
Some slightly forward thinking marketeers will catch on to the idea that there is a pretty big untapped market out there, and well if we try to market to them, it will inevitably increase sales.
I’m not sure that Bruni, Minaar, etc really drive sales that much, it’s a real niché sport, and most regular people have no idea who those guys are, and certainly aren’t driving sales of Stumpies and Bronsons.
  • 3 6
 @thenotoriousmic:
The level of ignorance in that comment, hopefully you're 14 years old?! And for it to get 26 upvote is just blowing my mind even more... But now it's less surprising that gender pay gap still persists, and guess what it is because of people like you, all of you that diminish women's performance, base you arguments on made up facts, because it makes you uncomfortable otherwise.
After being part of the 19.6 % of pro racer that don't get paid (no salary)for half of my 15 years world cup career, living of podiums prize money, bonuses, bike sales... I've had a happy career, life, but i'm not fat from being "poor", at least financially. It's all because you love it! But some company DO take advantage of that love, the lifestyle, to justify getting riders for free especially female and upcoming young males. That needs to change. I wish I could go back and say not to the sponsor that didn't want to pay me. I can't. But I won't stand for it!
  • 4 0
 @onawalk: Here is end of story- The argument put forth has no evidence to back it and doesn't logically make sense. When the argument is presented again with evidence it can be reevaluated.
  • 10 1
 @emi008: You don't have an argument other than to say that the paygap is somehow related to sexism.
I also said female gymnasts rightfully make more money than make gymnasts. Am I diminishing men' s performance in this case?
In order for you to get paid, that money has to come from someone else's pocket. In the simplest terms possible, in most sports male sports simply sell better which is why there is a higher pay for male athletes in general. Do you understand this concept? There are also sports that women tickets sell better so women get paid more than men too.
I see you live in Switzerland, one of the richest countries in the world. Women in Switzerland make more money on average compared to women in Sudan. Are you willing to equalize your pay with Sudanese women by giving up your unjust paygap over them? It seems that paygap is only an issue when you feel like you are the victim, but not to those below you.
People make different pay within and outside of gender. That's okay because people's pay cheque is determined by how much money they can generate through economic activities. That is what makes it fair for everyone.
Sooner you realize you are not a victim of your genitals but capable of achieving whatever you put your mind to, without your genitalia holding you back, the happier and more successful you will become.
  • 5 1
 @emi008: Every girlfriend I've had, some of their friends, my sister, my female cousins, my friends girlfriends, and my wife I've tried to get into mountain biking. It aways fails. I'm really glad you enjoy mountain biking so much, I literally think it makes anyone a better person for engaging in it, and I hope my daughters will grow up loving it. But for whatever biological reasons women don't enjoy mountain biking at the same rate men do. My wife loves watching world cups with me, watching you compete with the other women, but most people who mountain bike are men, so there is going to be a larger talent pool to draw from. I wish there were more professional women competing. I wish my daughters had more womens racers to watch. But there are only 15 on race day, and maybe 5 that are competitive. That is just reality, and until that changes, how can salaries & sponsorships increase?
  • 6 1
 @emi008: But the question is...do you know how many women watch your sport and participate in your sport compared to the men that watch/participate? It's a fraction. Until women decide they'd rather watch Mtn biking than the Kardashians it will continue to be an issue. It's not the men's fault that women don't like Mtb.
  • 2 4
 @hamncheez: neither does your comment, it’s your opinion.
Do you believe that Spesh is making a profit selling DH bikes because Bruni is winning races?
Doubtful. Spesh likely makes the bulk of their money by selling body geo soft goods, not selling Demos. You think SC is making money for PON cause Minaar is still out there crushing it, that’s hard to believe, pretty sure no one’s walking into the store asking for a tallboy, cause Minaar is winning worlds….
Smaller DH focused companies (Intense, Commencal) might shift more based on racers being celebrities etc.
We are into it, and I think we get caught up in our involvement in both the sport, and the past time of mountain biking. But its niché as hell man.

Your argument for win on Sunday, sell on Monday is pretty weak. Willing to bet nowadays that insta, tictak, etc shift more bikes than WC DH riders.

I will say, I’m in agreement that bringing in sales should directly refelct salary, if those are the terms that youre hired under. But I also believe that representation is important, and likely an untapped market with female riders.
  • 3 0
 @onawalk: Decades of racing in both motorsports and cycling has convinced marketing managers & company owners that yes, elite racing victories move product. Are they all wrong, or are you?
  • 4 1
 @onawalk:
Sorry, you got it all backwards.
Yes people will walk into a Specialized and SC stores for those athletes winning races. It increases brand recognition and trust, even if they do not buy the exact bike that the racers use. It is marketing 101.
Car companies also spend millions in F1, WRC, and NASCAR for the same reason. They want to sell their brand. Car companies also make Halo flagship exotic cars for this reason (Ford GT, Nissan GTR, Lexus LFA).
So it only makes sense that bike companies pay a higher salary to athletes who get the most wins, and more importantly more publicity for the brand. In this sport of mountain biking, it happens to be male athletes getting paid more on average. If it were a sport that women pay more attention to and spend more money in like yoga for instance, it could make sense that female athletes make more than men. Do you understand that?
And you keep talking of "representation", it may matter to you, but bike companies need profit to sustain their business. They are not charities. If the demand from women is there to get into biking, I assure you these bike companies will jump at that. They will market to whichever demographics that make them more money. If you want female athletes getting paid more, encourage more women to get into the sport and the pay for female mountain bike athletes will adjust accordingly as market capacity changes.
  • 20 1
 "How Much Do Professional Mountain Bikers Get Paid?"

"We also know that 19.1% of riders don't get paid at all."

If they don't get paid for mountain biking, why are they in this survey? That's not a "professional"* in the context of talking about salaries.

*("following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain")
  • 8 1
 I do wonder if these racers that arent getting "paid" are counting all the race fees, travel expenses, bikes, parts, etc.? because I would softly consider getting 50-75K in benefits to chase your dream, as getting paid.
  • 1 1
 @Mtbdialed: Indeed. Salary is one thing, not having to buy or pay for a bunch of stuff is another thing. Even food!
  • 2 0
 smh justinfoil, I knew I shouldn't have supported "critical thinking" in the public school curriculum. what a little thorn you've proven to be.....
  • 1 0
 I know someone who was invited to be surveyed and they don't receive any MTB-based wage, they just got good results. Their only source of income is outside of MTB. Pinkbike didn't disclose how athletes were selected, I assume they just went through 2022 rankings and picked the top X number of riders from several disciplines and age categories.
  • 1 0
 @JohanG: Can't handle a little thorn? Give your balls a tug.

What are you even talking about? Try harder.
  • 2 0
 @iamamodel: that is literally a "privateer". Not that we shouldn't hear from them, but of course it's going to skew the numbers of a survey of "professionals" to include people with zero industry salary.
  • 30 18
 Mountain biking pays no where near what other sports pay their athletes. Can’t believe the industry pays their athletes peanuts while we still have to pay 10K for their bikes. Where’s all the money going?
  • 105 1
 Until we have sold out stadiums of 100,000 people all buying swag either online or at the stadium plus alcohol, plus to multi-million dollar TV broadcast contracts..will never be what other sports pay.
  • 14 1
 Mountain biking largely relies on participants to fund the sport vs. viewers. MTB event viewership is a tiny fraction of any major sporting even. The only reason these teams can exist at all is because the user group is large enough and spends a lot of $$ (but again, pennies compared to soccer fans, etc.).
  • 17 1
 @bman33: exactly, until its cool to wear a mountain bike brands clothes AND dont actually participate in the sport there will never be real money. To the OP, WE are the problem there because if you see someone wearing a rockshox shirt and they tell you they don't own, nor do they want to own a mountain bike chances are they will be called a poser. Yet millions of people wear NY Yankee hats and no one says anything.
  • 22 0
 The main difference is in other sports, the athletes are the product. In MTB currently, the athletes are part of the marketing of the product. Very important distinction, along with what everyone else here has already said.
  • 22 0
 Per Red Bull, the MTB World Cup DH broadcasts for the 2022 season got 3.87 million views total, including live and replays for both men and women. The average American Football game averages 1.71 million viewers PER GAME in the regular season. There are 272 non-playoff games a season which comes to more than 465 million views in a single regular season. And that doesn't even include the playoffs which has a HUGE increase to 32.2 million average viewers per game. Then the Super Bowl championship game gets 100 million viewers alone. Now think of all that advertising revenue, which MTB does not get. At all. it's not even a comparison.
  • 4 24
flag sprocket1 (Jan 31, 2023 at 11:17) (Below Threshold)
 corporate greed
  • 31 1
 @sprocket1: No, professional athletes are a marketing expense. Not a charity. The average NBA regular season game sees around 3 million viewers on traditional TV plus another 1 million on streaming services etc. That's around 12 MILLION HOURS of view time for every single game. There are 82 games in a season. That means every team generates roughly 492 MILLION hours (assuming each team is responsible for half of the viewership of each game) of viewership every year. There are 30 teams of 15 players. That makes each player responsible on average for 32.8 million hours of viewership per year.

There are 13 UCI world cup events in 2023 as far as I can find. The only viewership data I can find has it around 6 million hours per event. There were 741 registered riders in the UCI mountain bike roster last year. That makes each rider responsible for - on average - 105 thousand hours of viewership. That makes the average professional basketball player worth roughly 312 times as much as the average rider. And I'm not even including the WNBA for the basketball stats, but I am including female riders. So the delta is probably closer to 500 times as much.

The average NBA player pulls in roughly $8 million per year. If we apply that ratio to bikers we should see average salaries around $27k per year. Based on the numbers in this article, riders are fairly to slightly over-paid when compared to other professional sports.

By the way, the ONLY sport I follow is the EWS and UCI downhill and even I barely tune in for that.
  • 11 1
 I’m surprised they get paid that much for what is a very minority sport that only has about 8 events a year to get exposure. Especially if your results drive your value
  • 7 1
 That’s because they aren’t worth any more. Until you get significantly more viewers nothing will change. The sport needs discovery to get it seen by a wider audience to make riders with more
  • 7 1
 I was going to do a comparison on viewing numbers of NFL games to viewing numbers of World Cup DH races, correlated with average salaries of each. Then I found this:

the average annual pay for a NFL Player in the United States is $45,866 a year.

At which point I stopped
  • 5 3
 @chrismac70: Yep a professional DH racer probably only actually competes 20 mins throughout the season. Not a bad payday for 20 mins work.
  • 4 2
 yeah but how many 10k bikes are there? Like really... Maybe is you are in Sqamish you need 10k or will be arrested and put into jail for being a hobo on you 5k bike and destroying the look of the city. But overall I am pretty sure 10k is a very small chunk of the sales in MOST places
  • 7 2
 @thenotoriousmic: I always come back to the IFC fighter Paddy Pimblett quote about this. He said he doesn't get paid for fighting, as that the bit he enjoys. He gets paid for the training camps, the diet, the recuperation and injury time. In the MTB world, race day is just the end point of the actual work building up to it.
  • 3 0
 @chrismac70: Couldn't agree more. Which is why I'm optimistic- paying for a subscription in a dying, antiquated medium of media consumption as a requirement to watch is a winning strategy to gain more viewership!
  • 3 2
 @andyrm: It's great that Paddy Pimblett likes his job, but he is wrong about this. Regardless of how he perceives it, no one who pays him gives a damn about his training and diet. He gets paid for exposure, i.e. the fights. It's easy to test - simply ask someone to sponsor him just for training and eating clean, without showing up to fights.

DH racers get paid for those 20 min. of exposure during races plus any extra media they produce (although a lot of the top guys barely produce any). If someone was hypothetically talented enough to get results and exposure without any work between the races, I guarantee the sponsors would still pay the same (as has happened in the past when it was still possible).
  • 3 0
 @bman33: Mountainbiking isn't a spectator sport it's more of a lifestyle sport. Vast majority of people who watch basketball, football, soccer, MLB and so on don't actively play those sports. Opposite for mtb. Most mountainbikers don't follow races but own a bike.
  • 2 0
 @Bunabe: I agree and I'm now way was denying that perspective. My point was illustrate that we in MTB will never have a spectator sport $$ and comparing MTB racer pay vs say a pro soccer/footballer pay isn't an honest comparison
  • 9 0
 My son asked about this so I told him: yes, if you are among the most tippy top elite in the world you can make a decent living, otherwise even if you are good enough to be a pro, do it for a few years, then get out before you hit your 30s. Ultimately if you are a sponsored athlete your business value is as a marketing professional, so you need to be ok with that.
  • 1 6
flag SacAssassin (Jan 31, 2023 at 17:15) (Below Threshold)
 Tom Brady is over here shaking his head at your comment between bites of avocado ice cream.
  • 42 34
 There is a reason women don't make as much and nor should they have equal prize money... they only repesent a small percent of riders overall and barley have 20 riders and there race times are much slower then men's times you should get paid on your value to the company not what's between your legs.. It's like complain about the gender wage gap on only fans for men.... This is the stupidest comparison and news story iv seen on pinkbike....
  • 33 52
flag ridedigrepeat (Jan 31, 2023 at 12:31) (Below Threshold)
 .I constantly see this shit in the comments and it sickens me. The fact that you not only still believe this, but take the time to write it out is a clear demonstration of why there is still a pay gap. Chauvinism and discrimination against women are still rampant in society.

The idea that people who have historically (and still are in many cases) treated as second class citizens need to somehow show they are equally marketable with a fraction of the resources to do so is not only stupid, its a disgusting proposition. "Pull yourself up by your boot straps, but you only get half a boot and we're not going to give you a full pair until you can do it anyway."

Take a hard look at the way you think about the world. Something tells me you were born with all you needed and have never had to struggle in your life. It's not too late for you to realize your myopic view is not only harmful but very unnecessary to share on the internet.
  • 49 11
 @bonkmasterflex: less people watch women race. Its not chauvanism. The top 10 juniors get paid less than the men. Are viewers ageist? People want to watch the fasters racers. stop seeing sexism where it doesnt exist
  • 20 35
flag ridedigrepeat (Jan 31, 2023 at 12:54) (Below Threshold)
 @skiandmtbdirtbag: Ever think that less people watch the women's race because the incentive for women to compete is lower and attracts a smaller crowd?

If you start a whole group out by handicapping them, they're not going to be as competitive for viewership...

Racing is about racing the competition in your field. Women's racing is just as exciting as men's (that's one of the reasons MTB is so awesome).

You are perpetuating a fallacy that women cannot produce exciting racing or capture a large viewership... which has been proven false when women are given an equal playing field and air time.

At least your user name is accurate.
  • 22 6
 @bonkmasterflex: the juniors are extremely competitve, why arent they paid the same as men?

your arguments hold zero water.
  • 11 4
 @bonkmasterflex: really great personal attack by the way.
  • 4 17
flag ridedigrepeat (Jan 31, 2023 at 13:22) (Below Threshold)
 @skiandmtbdirtbag: You literally chose that user name...
  • 9 21
flag ridedigrepeat (Jan 31, 2023 at 13:24) (Below Threshold)
 @gnarnaimo: Does someone need to explain to you that there is a difference between a comedy routine and sound socioeconomic theory?
  • 13 16
 The juniors are in a development category... your argument makes zero sense. Elite Women and men are in the same category of racing. Paying women less only hurts the industry by reducing incentives for more women to pursue the sport, reducing coverage and exposure of women to a wide audience, and reducing the field of future racers.
  • 17 4
 @bonkmasterflex: your arguement was if you create tight racing people will watch. the juniors shows this is not the case. as this survey shows, people do not get into pro mtb racing for the financial gain. again , all the arguements tou have put forth hold zero water beyond a cursory look .
  • 16 4
 @bonkmasterflex: Bring less money into the business, earn less money. That's simple economics. It may be a comedy routine, but it's also common sense and how business works.
  • 10 18
flag ridedigrepeat (Jan 31, 2023 at 14:01) (Below Threshold)
 @gnarnaimo: That's like saying if you start someone out with $10,000 and another person out with $1,000,000 and tell them to go make more money, that they should then be judged based on how much money they make and paid accordingly. . .

It is not, and has never been a level playing field. Perpetuating the pay difference is a short sighted business decision, along with being morally wrong.
  • 10 24
flag ridedigrepeat (Jan 31, 2023 at 14:11) (Below Threshold)
 @skiandmtbdirtbag: my argument is that women have been and still are systematically disenfranchised with regard to pay and representation in sport, and that it is obvious they won't bring in as much revenue unless given a chance to do so with equal resources.

The gender pay gap and investment gap in sport is massive compared to other industries in large part because old white men (like you) remain in positions of power and refuse to make genuine efforts to tap into the market that is 50% of the populace.
  • 19 7
 @bonkmasterflex: old white men like me?? jesus dude. you are a lot cause and completely blinded by identity politics. All the best
  • 13 4
 Also at some point we have to recognize that women don't even support the WNBA but there's no storage of women attending NBA games. And the WNBA is competitive and plays good basketball. Can bring them to water but can't make money out of nothing
  • 20 7
 @bonkmasterflex: @bonkmasterflex: Its ironic that you say "sound socioeconomic theory" and then proceed to rant against all the available evidence.

In collegiate sports, Mens Football pays for all other sports to exist. Most schools break even on Mens Basketball, and thats it. The rest of athletics is subsidized by young men willing to risk (a very high risk) CTE, early onset arthritis, and other health problems for the glory of football. Every other student athlete except maybe Mens basketball is on football-subsidized welfare.

When I ran Mens Track & Field, despite generating $0 for the school, we still had access to the same facilities, the same trainers, the same training equipment as the football team (well, they had their own weight room). The cost of trainers, tape, buses, plane flights, pole vault poles, etc, is very expensive. We were given all the support we could possibly ask for, but PEOPLE STILL DIDN'T WATCH THE TRACK MEETS. The playing field is as level as could be, but people have different preferences. The same principle in football vs track applies to men vs women in mountain biking.
  • 12 10
 @bonkmasterflex: This just shows how left you really and how quick your are to get "triggered" and shows me you don't really understand how the world really works and how unequipped you are to argue your point . Your point of view makes no sense if things were actually fair and you looked at how the economics of racing and mountain biking as a whole women are a small percentage and do not ride anywhere close to the same level as men at the pro or AM level of racing. women simply don't generat the same revenue as men because mountain biking is prodomninatly a male sport according the the demographic data available. I choose to look at sastastics and the enomics of how to sustain mountain biking as a sport because it is a business at the end of the day and numbers don not lie. It needs to be performance based just like life is to be fair and getting paid the same for showing up and getting paid the same for doing less work is not fair at all. It doesn't work like that in society fair is fair accross the board and it is impartial to which sex you are when you look at data..
  • 5 5
 @artistformlyknowasdan: I know and our society rewards them for underperforming it sends the wrong message to those to work their ass off and perform better makes no sense.
  • 8 4
 @bonkmasterflex:
Paygaps exist not only between men and women but among men and among women too. But people only complain of "gender pay gap". You as an American woman have a pay gap above other women doing the same work as you in Asia, or Africa. According to you believing that everything needs to be equal, are you willing to share your unjust pay gap with other less fortunate women? Probably not.

People only deserve the pay for the money they bring in. That is what makes it fair.
Male mountain bikers make more money than female mountain bikers for the same reason female gymnasts and volleyball players make more money than male gymnasts and volleyball players. It all depends on the viewership and the money generated from that.
  • 6 6
 @bonkmasterflex: People generally don't care about women's sports because it's lower skill and effort level than 15 year old boys national level competitions. People want to see the best the greatest and in any form of physical realm it's always going to be men.

You are insane. Women are different to men not just physically.
  • 3 8
flag preach (Feb 1, 2023 at 12:07) (Below Threshold)
 @skiandmtbdirtbag: that's all libs know...give them facts, reason and logic and out come the ad hominem attacks...because all they can do is try and shut you up since they can't debate.
  • 5 0
 @preach: While I agree with you, its ironic (meta?) that you respond to ad hominem with.... ad hominem. A personal attack, even if true, is still a personal attack.
  • 3 3
 @hamncheez: respectfully disagree, when someone ducks logic, reason and rationale....you point out that that's what they've done. That's not ad hominem, it's more like reporting. If I would have said "It's because you're a close minded idiot..." then that would have been ad hominem.
  • 2 1
 I find it kinda ironic that people start sounding off about "libs" and "leftists" while essentially trying to make a coherent argument against identity politics. Stick to the facts people, and stop trying to turn this into some sort of Us/Them bullshit. The discussion about whether women (who arguably perform at a less high level than men in mtb) should get paid the same as men. There are arguments to be made for both sides. None of them have anything to do with which way you vote at the mid terms. Bringing that into it weakens your argument, as you end up looking like you give more credence to ideology than logic. I'm left wing as f*ck. Personally I think it makes sense that the fastest racers get paid the most. Sorry if that offends your ideology...
  • 2 1
 @gabriel-mission9: Amen. This type of thing irritates the hell out of me. I, too, am left wing and fully agree with @skiandmtbdirtbag
  • 3 0
 @gnarnaimo: I am about as left wing as they come.
  • 2 0
 @skiandmtbdirtbag: @preach: This is awkward lol
  • 7 0
 Fundamentally, I have no idea how large of an industry mountain biking is. I think some context would be helpful here. How many survey’s are sent out? How big of a slice of the “professional” MTB pie is that rolodex? Are there 1,000 people worldwide that would call themselves a professional across all MTB disciples? In terms of assessing a riders’ worth, again I’m not really sure how to come at this. We all know bikes are expensive but how many are actually sold each year? Is it possible to make an educated guess as to the profit margin on them? One thing I’d really like to see from the Pinkbike Racing experience is a breakdown (or at least a ballpark) of what it actually costs to go racing for a season from a team level.

From purely guessing I’d say XC or Enduro riders would probably have the strongest argument for saying that doing well on a bike will lead to an actual uptick on sales for a brand. Honestly, how many DH bikes are actually sold each year? Almost the entirety of the slopestyle new bike market is Ticket S sales and I’m going to guess Trek doesn’t move that many of those each year notwithstanding the wizardry that Emil and Brandon can do on them. I would not be at all surprised if Pinkbike/Vital etc crowning a particular bike “Bike of Year” has a more meaningful effect on actual sales then race results of a particular athlete. All of these guys and girls are fast/talented and I’d suspect equipment makes less of a difference than people think.

Where does that leave people trying to actual make a living at this sport – I don’t know. I do know that $100k is really not much money in a lot of places where mountain biking is good (eg. Anywhere with hills in BC). Unless people are willing to pony up to actually pay to watch the sport in person (which would really only maybe work for Rampage/the Crankworx slopestyle events/or something that can be made to fit in a stadium like supercross), or pay for a subscription stream to view it I can’t really see much changing. I can’t see anything generating anything remotely close to Tour du France levels of viewership and sponsorship/ad dollars. Maybe it will slowly get better if more people take an interest in the sport but that would likely also mean there is more people trying to ride professionally.

Would more salary transparency help any of this? In larger professional sports its generally known what particular athletes make (at least in terms of a base salary). That obviously has an effect on the market. It was very refreshing to see Gwin make his million dollar comment a few years ago. Maybe pros talk to each other and this is all well known in the industry so it’s not much of an issue. However, based on some of the survey results concerning contract satisfaction that doesn’t seem universal. I’d suggest an good place to start would be for Pinkbike Racing to announce what they pay their riders. Maybe that would inspire/pressure others to follow and help riders make some more informed decisions. To a certain degree Pinkbike does it with the Pinkbike Academy winner so it would be somewhat of an extension.
  • 10 4
 It sucks they don't get paid more. But in truth a portion of that is based on viewers paying to see the sport. MTB is still comparatively niche based on other sports. Sadly, thats the state of it all. If more and more people watch the sports, sell tickets to events, buy products, the more the athletes will get paid.
  • 6 1
 I would like to know more about the business case for pro athletes in cycling. I assume a rider program budget comes from revenue created by product sales. Is that the only stream? How do you measure a rider's success and say "your contribution is worth $X"? Are brands just under-investing? Are riders in need of business training? We have a few "legends" of the sport in town and while they have reached the height of their disciplines and global recognition, they live a modest life. They get lots of respect but not much in the way of money considering the personal risks they take. Do they need Patreon accounts? Is it because it's a "small" sport? Do I judge Lewis B for his financial security choices? Where's the money Lebowski?!
  • 7 0
 @conv3rt: Yeah same here, I would love to look at a data sheet of a breakdown if possible. I do know a LOT of income they have is based on social media presence and sponsorships. You basically have to brand yourself while being a top athlete, pretty tough overall IMO.
  • 6 0
 Mountain biking is a niche industry. These atheletes are a big deal to us but honestly if you compare it to mainstream pro sports, it makes sense. Lebron james is selling whatever sneakers he wears to millions of people who watch him play, whether those people play basketball or not. Loic Bruni is selling a bike to people who 1)already ride mountainbikes 2)are actually into racing 3)are going to buy a mountainbike this year. Its all economies of scale. $6000 is a lot of money for a bike, and they are going to sell quite a few. Lebron's signature shoes have generated $340 MILLION dollars for nike. How bikes do you think Bruni has sold? How many dollars has he generated for specialized?
  • 1 3
 People don't buy based on Loic Bruni. People buy based on spec, geo and value. I've never heard anyone say I'm buying brand because that's what some rider rides.
  • 2 2
 @Bunabe: @Bunabe: The vast majority of mtb buyers have no idea what a head angle is, or the difference between slx and xt. Loic sells a lot of bikes, and the people paying him what they pay him arn't dummies.
  • 3 1
 @skiandmtbdirtbag: do people who know nothing about specs and geo know who loic is? Most of my riding buddies don't watch any racing and don't even know what the ews is.
  • 2 1
 @texag: 100 percent. I used to work in the ski industry, whats tanner hall on? thats what poeple will buy, with no idea about the waist width of that ski
  • 2 1
 @skiandmtbdirtbag: You couldn't be more wrong. Most riders have no idea who Loic Bruni is. But everyone cares about the price of their bike and what kind of a geo it has. You sound like you just made up some shit without having a single thought if it makes any sense or not.
  • 1 0
 @Bunabe: @Bunabe: Next time you are on a trail go ask someone ripping a blue flow trail (which is most people buying bikes) what the HA is. Or their reach, you will be surprised.
I sold bikes for 4 seasons, 90 % of customers have no idea about any geo.
  • 1 0
 Not commenting on who's right and who's wrong, but these latest comments got me thinking it would be interesting to see some data on sales and who is buying bikes and based on what between different areas globally. Living in a country where mentioned blue flow trails aren't available in abundance, even official built and maintained trails in general are scarce (and mainly focused at ski centers turned DH/ enduro trails in summer) and generally people ride on whatever naturally formed trails there might be available in their area. I'm not saying this somehow makes you a tech spec wizard from the beginning when buying your first bike, but my personal experience is a lot of riders learn to know at least the basics quite early on simply because they need to know how to adapt to their environment. (You can't always easily find something to fit your bike, but you can get a bike that fits your local trails.)
  • 3 1
 @skiandmtbdirtbag: Every single rider understands whether they are buying a downhill bike or a cross country bike. Yes they understand geo. You are just trying to twist what we are talking into some trivia competition. And anyone I meet on the trails will have researched their bike and they aren't buying a road HA bike for trails... What you are trying to say is just flat out categorically wrong.

No one who comes to the local bike shop has any idea who won the last EWS or UCI worldcup or any other discipline. They just buy a bike from the available 2-3 brands there.
  • 1 0
 @Bunabe: I do have to say hanging out on the Internet has taught me not nearly all people on bikes/ getting into bikes know what they're buying or why. When I was just chatting with people irl about biking, or even online in fairly local social media groups I thought this too. Then I joined a couple of global groups and started to see more and more people posting about their current bikes, asking for recommendations "if x is a good bike to buy" with no idea what kind of riding they actually do or plan to do, what "type" the bike they're asking about is and what it maybe is designed for... They know the difference between a hardtail and a full suspension and that's about it - seriously not all know what are the benefits of choosing one over the other. These are the people who really should be visiting their LBS to find out about the basics, but who (all not even having that opportunity) are often shopping online simply based on having seen someone - a regular person online, some pro biker on social media, anyone - having said good things about a specific bike.

In short: there hardly is only one reason people end up buying what they buy, be it bikes or anything else, and surely brands would like to utilize every sales channel possible.
  • 2 0
 @donimo: I think there's some truth to both your argument and dirtbag's. The average person buying their first mtb at a local store, or online probably doesn't know who Loic Bruni is, and they barely know enough to understand the difference between a XC bike and a downhill/park bike. If they go to a LBS hopefully the salesperson can ask the right questions to get them into the right bike for their skill level and the type of trails they are likely to ride. And the bike shop isn't likely to send a newbie home on a top end bike (unless the customer seems to not care about money).
But generally, the person that's going to spend $8-10k on a bike does know who Loic Bruni is and is not unlikely to be at least partly influenced by the bike or bike brand he rides with. Ditto for shocks and other parts. And let's be honest here - those bikes are the high profit sales for both manufacturer and local store. So there is good return on paying top dollar to get top riders on your team. And let's not forget that top riders are also part of the feedback loop when testing out new tech. So those riders also give bike and component developers important help in making ever better and more competitive bikes.
  • 1 0
 @Fill-Freakin: I mean, OK I'm definitely not in the 8-10k budget slot, but I think it would be weird to think pro athletes or riders otherwise in the spotlight don't at all drive sales - for bikes, parts, whatnot. Sure, the more in-the-know people aren't going to base their purchases solely on that, but of course they're a huge part in bringing visibility to brands. No, seeing Bruni on the podium time after time won't make me instantly want to buy a Demo - I'm not doing downhill, and like mentioned above, I know the geometry and other features aren't what I'm after. But of course seeing the Specialized boys smashing it time after time tells me the brand makes good bikes, the parts they have on are solid choices - and makes me interested enough to look at other options they might have available to match my needs. It's quite a bold statement to make that no one ever who rides bikes hasn't been affected by seeing the pros do their thing and instead are somehow making all their choices purely based on numbers and science in a dark room isolated from the outside world.
  • 6 0
 Your colorblind users are cursing your name Pinkbike for inflicting those charts on them. As a non-colorblind person I can barely distinguish the differences between red/light red and orange/light orange with such small swatches in the key. People don't notice good UX, they notice bad UX.
  • 7 0
 What all this shows is to stay in school or learn a trait on the side. While young, enjoy the ride, travel, experience the world. Then have a backup plan.
  • 1 0
 Smartest comment here.
  • 8 1
 @andyrm: Except for maybe “learn a trait.”
  • 1 0
 @TheR: a spelling error can be forgiven, esp as there are many the world over that make their Trade their defining personality Trait. His comment still holds water.
  • 2 0
 @KDix85: oh, I know. Totally valid comment. I knew what he meant. I totally would have let it go, except the other guy calling it the smartest comment on here.
  • 1 0
 @TheR: Must be a millwright.
  • 9 0
 It pays more to be a Youtuber than a pro rider
  • 5 2
 And we laughed at Orbea for picking the rider with the most followers on PBA.
  • 2 0
 reading that after watching Remy’s video about his house, makes a lot of sense.
  • 6 2
 Niche sport, same issue with motocross etc...top guy make the most money, guys at the back make the least. Truly perforemence based for salary. The sad part is the payout for each race is peanuts, promoters make the money. For the pay gap, not fair but what is, can the women sign up to compete against the men, they should be allowed to. Equality should be about opportunity. Where does the women best time compare to the men, that is where their pay should be equal to. Imagine the money a women could make being top 10 or 20 against men. Sponsors would promote that big time.
  • 8 0
 Define "Professional Mountain Biker"
  • 1 0
 I don't think PB knows what "professional" means.
  • 5 1
 75% make 50K or less. Thats a bummer for those guys and gals. Not really a livable wage. However this biggest issue is not the wage, its the 5-10 year delay you take before doing the real adult thing that you should have been doing in your twenties that you weren't.
  • 4 1
 The percentages are a bit meaningless without more context behind them, e.g. total number surveyed, demographic, etc. and the results of the entire survey. Guessing it looks like 90 or so people were surveyed... a survey in 2021 claimed over 10% of Americans go mountain biking in a year (bikefaff.com/mountain-bike-statistics-and-facts), so (VERY) roughly say over 40 million Americans, add in the rest of the world, and survey 90 ppl who do it as a job is virtually useless with the context. This article is contributing to the statistics illiteracy of the world.
  • 10 7
 My wife and I are very proud to financially sponsor only women downhill racers every season. The articles and some of these comments reinforces my confidence in the direction of our sponsorship. Also, I riders get more than 5k. ;-)
  • 3 0
 I'd like to see how much support these riders can expect if they get injured. If they can't make content does their salary disappear? Can they afford a long recovery or will their income vanish and they are off to accounting school, or will they be able to recuperate and get back to it? I can imagine what the results would be but I am curious to hear it from the riders. Its one thing to be sitting on a $500K salary and building a financial runway for a post biking life vs making less than $5K and living in your parents basement.
  • 2 0
 At least we know that that the kids that want to be pro riders aren't doing because they want to be rich and famous. They just want to ride their bikes. That being said, it looks like the majority surveyed here are going to have a real hard time making a living being a pro.

Can someone figure out how to add a 0 to their salary? I don't see a way to make that happen.
  • 1 0
 Take a couple of 0's out of Chris Ball's salary? I think that would be a good start.
  • 2 0
 the Salaries Aren't Guaranteed section takes some data and then makes some sentence stuff up. The article says anyone who doesn't earn 100% of their income from guaranteed salary requires ('have to have') a second income. No, it doesn't say they need to, it says they do. The whole section suggests that unless it is 100% guaranteed the riders must/have to supplement it to earn a living. Again, no - it just implies they choose to. It's very likely the $500k+ rider isn't 100% guaranteed but it doesn't mean they necessarily need to supplement.
  • 5 1
 This should not even be a discussion if you don't understand why some get paid and others don't here is a book for you... Economics for Dummies.
  • 5 0
 The place where a gender gap is most evident in our sport seems to be the Pink Bike comments section.
  • 5 0
 Who the hell thought those pie charts make more sense than a plain histogram?!
  • 5 4
 Can we all agree that we really have about 8 events a year. I know that some may do Crank Works or a National race here and there. But money comes from the major events (TV and spectator money). I think if you are racing less than 10 times a year and making $100k, you may be over paid. How many races do they have a year in moto between Supercross and outdoor,??
People complain about strikes from millionaire athletes from baseball, hockey and football, but a lot of those strikes mostly benefit the little guy.
I hope Red Bull teams up with crank works to make a competitive series so between the WC and them we can get 15 great events a year, this could bring in some more money for these amazing athletes that work so hard all year long.
  • 6 1
 ~15% made >100k and those arent the problem. Its the bottom 45% that depending on their nationality, might not even make a livable wage.
  • 2 1
 @endoplasmicreticulum: equally they don’t get the results or even the broadcast part of the race so what do they have to offer a sponsor
  • 4 0
 @chrismac70: Sure, but what are the races without them? The top 10 battling it out with the last 50 places filled in by locals who dont have the big travel expenses isnt a world cup, its a joke.
  • 2 0
 @Tormy - just keep in mind that it's a full-time job to be competitive at those 10 events. Training is 90% of the job. And most riders aren't making $100k.
  • 4 0
 I think this article should have started with a definition a "Professional Mountain-Biker"
  • 1 1
 For the purposes of this survey, it appears as though it's "someone who is paid to race mountain bikes at the world cup (EWS included) level." They leave out all the content creators, YouTubers, etc. It would be interesting to see a separate survey with those folks.
  • 2 0
 @stevemokan: Nope, because according to this, 19.1% don't get paid at all.
  • 3 2
 @justinfoil: OK... so it's "someone who races mountain bikes at the world cup level". Essentially the same thing; they focused on racing instead of focusing on the "pro" part of the equation.
  • 3 0
 @stevemokan: Words matter. If that's what they meant, that's what they should written. "Professional" is in the title/headline, the synopsis, and twice more in the article. That's a lot of usage for something they allegedly aren't actually talking about.

They also didn't mention World Cup level, or any other level. They said "the professional field and elite competition" and "we surveyed the best riders in the world", with nothing about actual races raced.
  • 2 0
 @justinfoil: I would like to know how they got their sample.
  • 1 0
 It's certainly not the dictionary meaning of professional.
  • 1 0
 "just 19.6% were able to earn a full living from a concrete mountain biking salary, without having to supplement it with another income source."

No, that doesn't mean only those 19.6% do not need to supplement it. Less than 100% guaranteed does not mean one automatically needs to supplement, especially considering that the potential total salary with performance-based rewards is often higher than a similar guaranteed salary, so one doesn't need to get every single bonus to still make enough.
  • 1 0
 "Overall, 61.2% of riders stated that they relied on good race or event results for their livelihood. Another 29.7% told us that less than 20% of their income is guaranteed ... This means in total, over 80% of riders have to have a second income stream after their take-home salary"

You're assuming that _all_ of those 61.2% don't get good enough results, and that the 20% guaranteed is _always_ below some level that requires secondary income for the other 29.7%.
  • 2 0
 The first pie chart would have greatly benefited from a gradient of one color going form lightest to darkest. Impossible to read otherwise with so many options. Or they could have binned the salary ranges into less groups.
  • 3 0
 Pie charts in general are bad. A bar chart is almost always going to be easier for people to quickly read, understand, and compare data points with.
  • 2 1
 live your life, try to fulfill your ambitions, and try to focus on the utility of money. After a certain point money is just a burden and you can die very rich but miserable. I have yet to see a well adjusted billionaire who isn't fucking over the planet and its inhabitants. I hope you toxic fucks have a good day.
  • 4 1
 What you've done is known as a 'strawman argument'. Just because someone wants a higher wage doesn't mean they want to be a billionaire. I'm pretty sure someone earning 30-40k wouldn't mind earning 40-50k and doesn't need to be a 'toxic fuck' to do so.
  • 2 1
 I sold my stake in a pet business for 10 million dollars but still continue to work 45 hours per week. Part of the sale is vested over three years. The financial security is great but I don’t feel a shred different than before being a millionaire and still enjoy working. Most excited to start my next business and watch my young kids grow up.
  • 2 0
 Worst charts ever! Data Science professionals have a general rule : if you find yourself using a pie chart you have done it wrong.
scc.ms.unimelb.edu.au/resources/data-visualisation-and-exploration/no_pie-charts
  • 1 0
 Agreed. Those are terrible charts. Pie chart was the wrong way to show this data.
  • 1 0
 So if 19.1% of riders don't get paid at all, is it safe to assume they said 100% of their salary was guaranteed? They were basically guaranteed nothing? Also, can you still call someone a pro if they don't make any money at something? I was under the impression that a professional is someone that earns their income doing that activity. Being bankrolled by mom and dad, or a trust fund, or other jobs and racing at the elite level does not make you a pro. It just means you're racing at the elite level, including racing against pros.
  • 12 8
 Here comes the USWNT for that pay gap..
  • 11 8
 queue the dentists and tech workers about to comment how they would never be a pro for less than 100K a year.
  • 24 1
 well they're not wrong lol
  • 10 1
 @baca262: sure, but they also wouldnt flip burgers for under 100K either. It's a common argument on Pinkbike posts that doesnt matter. If you are young and all you have going for you is you ride at a pro level, and that seems like a better pursuit than being an uber driver, then being a pro rider for 10K a year might make sense. If its your dream and you can accept scraping by for a few years to see if you can make it to the top, why not.
  • 9 1
 @dpars63: it's all complete bs, it's not people's fault into what they were born. if you were born into millions, would you reject them? but that brings other set of problems and people say "first world problems". if you were born into a broke ass family and had to bust your ass for minimum wage, is it your fault you started drinking or something else because it's soul wrenching? but people say look at that f*cking loser. we're all incompetent idiots, giving each other shit for incompetence because we're too stupid to see the underlying reality than none of us is omnipotent.
  • 5 1
 id go pro for 50 quid if i could actually just get to ride a bike at some point
  • 5 0
 Don't judge dude. That is bare minimum to raise a family and enough discretionary income to buy your kids decent bikes and live near decent trails

What is the difference between a large pepperoni pizza and a pro mountain biker? The pizza can feed a family of four.
  • 5 0
 @MT36: Im not judging, simply stating facts. You mentioned up above that you told your son there isnt money in being a pro unless they are at the very top. That is not new news, and yet there are people passionate enough about riding a bicycle for a living they are okay with making that choice. You have a family and want to use your extra money to buy them good bikes. Thats great, but that's also a choice. I've made the same choice, but that isnt relevant.

Every pro rider making under 30K could literally do anything else and make more money, yet they dont. It's not because they think someday the world will figure out how to pay them more. If all teams were required to pay 50K or more, there simply wouldnt be as many pros.
  • 2 0
 @dpars63: Yes they can survive on the low wage, however once they are forced to retire that's the problem. They will have missed out on the post secondary and years the rest of their friends have focused on building up their career.
  • 2 0
 @Kamperk87: all true, however, the idealist in me says that those that pursued their pro sports career and actually made it so they were getting paid to play sports, even for just a short period of time, will always have that question or pursuit answered vs. having a mundane, though well paying job and wondering if you could have "made it."
  • 2 0
 @XC-Only: Thats really my point. It would be great if all pro mountain bikers got paid more, but they dont. Once we die we dont take any money with us, so death making all things equal it's okay to chase your dreams when others dont and choose financial stability instead.

If i stumbled across someones obituary I would be more impressed with "was a professional bike rider" than "was a software developer"
  • 1 0
 @XC-Only: if you have to wonder then the answer is no. To each their own…
  • 1 0
 @dpars63:
If all teams were required to pay 50K or more, there simply wouldnt be as many pros."
Huh? That must be why there are so few pro soccer/football players.
Being a pro literally means making a living at at something - i.e. it's a person's profession. People riding at the elite category and not earning anything aren't pros, they're pursuing a passion and/or hoping to become pros.

Even if what you're trying to say is that teams would be able to afford fewer riders, it doesn't mean there would be fewer riders. They may just compete in a different category until they are good enough to race in a pro league. Usually better salaries will motivate more people to make a go at it. Which in turn creates a more competitive landscape and creates more entertaining races. If the top 15 women riders got paid $100k/season, it would attract more talent, it would afford better coaching, more full time athletes (instead of spending off seasons hussling in some other job). And in time that would make for a more competitive women's field, which would generate more viewers + more interest in the sport for women.
  • 1 0
 @Fill-Freakin: compared to the amount of people who have played football/ soccer who actually go pro, yeah it’s actually a really small amount. Unlike other sports it’s possible to enter a pro event purely based on will, not true skill. I’m confused on what you are getting at? The people who were polled for the survey reported incomes well under minimum wage, so are you saying they are not pro because they are most likely doing other things to make ends meet and therefor it’s not really their profession? The problem comparing professional mountain biking to major pro sports is that they are not the same. I would love to see women’s XC racers all get paid 100k, but the only people who give a shit about mountain bike racing are mountain bikers. Pros are marketing budgets to sell more bikes. Pro soccer players are not playing to sell more soccer balls. To put real numbers to it specialized revenue in 2020 was $500M, the New York Yankees Revenue was $670M, but there are 32 teams in the MLB making close to the same and they are not manufacturing anything.
  • 4 3
 500k for a pro cycling is a month of a bad soccer player or nba...is a poor sport. Surely Sagan or road cycling pros are payed much more. Mtb is really poor sports considering the risk of injuries.
  • 2 0
 Road cyclists are paid more. Their teams race nearly 200 days a year all live on mainstream tv. The stars ride 50 plus days a year. This attracts big money from banks, supermarkets and multinationals. Bike companies are a minor part of the team
  • 1 0
 which is why we need to get more people into mtb so they also enjoy watching mtb
  • 3 0
 Maybe i should get myself a pro rider to represent me. Seems more affordable than biking yourself...
  • 3 0
 How many juniors were surveyed vs. elites? How many influencers or non-racers?
  • 4 0
 Now what’s all this talk about unions?
  • 2 0
 I enjoy watching women's XCO very much more so than the men's. With that in mind who brings in the money the NBA or the WNBA??
  • 4 0
 How much are their mechanics paid?
  • 4 0
 Some of these guys are probably not able to buy the bikes they are riding
  • 1 0
 Curious to know how an average racer pay scales up against every other member of a factory team? A select few teams seem to adopt and nurture their riders for the long haul. What’s that worth?
  • 4 4
 It is unfortunate to see that people are still pushing gender paygap myth. Like other things in life, there is no gender pay gap. People get paid the money they bring in. Fact of the matter is that in most sports, men sports get more viewership, more sponsorship, and therefore more money for the male athletes. There are sports such as gymnastics and volleyball where women make more money than men - And that is no gender pay gap either. Just people getting paid what they deserve. You don't have an inherent right to make the same money as another person or group you say you want to make the same money as. You only deserve the money you bring in as an athlete. This is why DH racers make more money than bike polo players or bike trials riders. Same goes for gender.
  • 1 0
 Surely it can't be Gwin seeing as he now rides his own bike after buying into Intense so surely his revenue comes from sponsorship, as for prize money, that's always been derisory so nobody gets rich with that.
  • 3 0
 Can we get a survey that shows the salary earning comparison between XC, Enduro and Down Hill?
  • 1 0
 We get it, you should compete in mtb because you WANT to compete in mtb. Just like in everything in life, you need to count the full cost and judge whether it's worth your time.
  • 3 0
 I don't think people do this to get rich and looks like they won't
  • 2 0
 It's a paradox that the bike racers that promote the sales of these bikes, cannot generally afford to buy them.
  • 1 0
 Missy Giove was making 500K+/ year in the mid 90's, There is no conspiracy against women, all the riders are underpaid, even the top guys and gals.
  • 1 0
 One does not ride a bike competitively to make money it is not a sound financial career path. It is almost exclusively for the props and lifestyle. It's a sport of privilege.
  • 3 0
 TLDR - Dont quite your day job, enjoy your hobby
  • 2 0
 not 100% sure that first pie graph is 508 compliant.
  • 1 0
 compare to general major sports, mtber's salary is too low. i wonder how much the pro skiers get paid.
  • 1 1
 Just filed for my pro license and accepting sponsors!! Tampax, Johnson & Johnson, holler atcher boi!
  • 3 5
 I know there is a lot to it, but bikes average 6k-8k and I can go get a football and sneakers for $50 total at any sporting goods store...
  • 2 1
 are you complaining about the cost of cycling shoes
  • 1 0
 ...yeah, there's a lot more to it
  • 4 1
 @Compositepro: I honestly don't know what I'm complaining about. My brain is a few lbs of moldy moosh and fingers just type what is in there sometimes
  • 3 1
 @gossman: ironic this has been my MO for a good while now
  • 4 7
 Pay gap was debunked a couple years ago....any yet its still being talked about.
  • 6 3
 If it has been "debunked" then are all the riders who answered this survey lying about how much they make? Because there's a pretty obvious gap in the pay evident in that chart...
  • 2 2
 @charliewentoutside: Yes male mountain bikers get paid more than female mountain bikers on average for the same reason female gymnasts get paid more than male gymnasts on average. And for the same reason NFL players make more than mountain bikers on average.
It depends on the viewership and the money generated. Compare the viewership numbers for the male mountain bike races and female mountain bike races, or the sheer number of races
So yes, gender paygap is a myth that has been debunked many times.

You do not deserve the same pay as another person or group you say you want the same pay as. You only deserve the money that you generate through your economic activities.
  • 2 1
 @BikeTrials: What you're saying explains WHY there is a gender pay gap. But it's not a myth. The gap is still there.

> You do not deserve the same pay as another person or group you say you want the same pay as. You only deserve the money that you generate through your economic activities.

No one actually earns the money that their labor generates. You earn LESS than the value your labor generates. The difference between what you generate and what you earn is called profit, and it goes into your boss's boss's pocket.
  • 1 2
 @charliewentoutside:
The paygap between gender is not due to some discrimination but men working longer hours and the career choice differences. The gender paygap is a myth in that women can earn exactly the same under the circumstances, not held back by their genitals.
Okay, you will make the money minus the overhead costs but still generated by your labor. Big deal.
  • 2 1
 @BikeTrials:

> The paygap between gender is not due to some discrimination but men working longer hours and the career choice differences.

The truth of this varies depending on the industry and company. There are absolutely still places where women make less than men for doing the same work.

> Okay, you will make the money minus the overhead costs but still generated by your labor. Big deal.

No, it's not just minus the overhead, because overhead cost + labor cost = item cost. However, if you got paid your full labor cost, there's no profit for the owner, since they can't take a cut of overhead costs. So instead they take a cut of the value of your labor.

Whether or not it's a big deal is a matter of personal opinion, I suppose.
  • 1 1
 @charliewentoutside:
Yes if we were to go into individual cases, there would be a case for male and female discrimination on both sides. There still does not exist a systematic societal discrimination of pay in workplace. The data does not support that.
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