First Ride: Pirelli's Updated Scorpion Enduro & eMTB Tires

Jun 24, 2022 at 6:56
by Dan Roberts  
Pirelli Scorpion Enduro amp eMTB Tires Mountainbike Connection Winter - Mirror Media

Continuing their push into the MTB world of tires, Pirelli have now updated their Scorpion Enduro and eMTB ranges. The goal was to simplify the lineup a little while also improving grip and offering some new casings. They admit themselves that their initial tire offerings were perhaps focussed more on the longevity of the rubber at the sacrifice of outright grip. But their updates promise to remedy this through some reworked compounding and revisions to the tread pattern.

Perhaps you've spotted the enormous yellow prototype logos on some of their race team tires at the World Cups and EWS? These updates to the Scorpion enduro and eMTB tires are a separate development, even though a lot of this was informed by the prototype testing and race team involvement. You'll just have to sit tight for the time being on those more race-focussed offerings.

Pirelli Scorpion eMTB M Mountainbike Connection Winter - Mirror Media
The Scorpion M is for mixed conditions and uses a slightly shorter block height and more evenly spaced and slightly less aggressive tread pattern.
Pirelli Scorpion Enduro S Mountainbike Connection Winter - Mirror Media
The S is for soft conditions and opens up the tread pattern by removing the intermediate block that the M has, while making each block slightly taller and more aggressive in its shape and angle.
Pirelli Scorpion eMTB R Mountainbike Connection Winter - Mirror Media
The R is a rear specific design that brings a bunch of blocks much closer together to aid rolling speed and also provides many more edges for braking.

Pirelli attempted to make their naming a bit easier and divide both the enduro and eMTB Scorpion range by the intended usage - M, S and R denoting tires designed to be used in mixed conditions, soft conditions and a rear-specific respectively. But as soon as you add in different compounds, casing and sizes, the number of SKUs skyrockets again.





Pirelli Scorpion Enduro S Mountainbike Connection Winter - Mirror Media

Scorpion Enduro

Where the enduro and eMTB range start to split is in the casings offered. The ProWALL casing is the lightest on offer while still having good protective sidewall inserts. It uses multiple 60 tpi nylon layers and is comparable to Maxxis's EXO casing. Schwalbe's Super Ground casing does offer a bead to bead protection layer, but suffers with more weight and rigidity in comparison.

The HardWALL casing increases the protection levels by using a bead to bead protection layer as well as rubber inserts up the first part of the sidewall. It's comparable to Schwalbe's Super Trail and offers an advantage in comparison to Maxxis's EXO+ casing by having that bead-to-bead protection layer.
Scorpion Enduro Details

Wheel Sizes: 27.5" & 29"
Widths: 2.4" (61mm) or 2.6" (66mm)
Casings: ProWALL or HardWALL
Compounds: Smartgrip or Smartgrip Gravity
Tread Patterns: Mixed Conditions, Soft Conditions & Rear Specific
Bead: Folding
Recommended Rim Widths: 30mm (inner width)
Weight: 1,030g - 1,230g depending on tread and casing (claimed, 29 x 2.6")
More info: pirelli.com

2.4" and 2.6" widths are offered in the 29" and 27.5" diameters, with both widths being designed around a 30mm inner width rim. The M tread pattern is aimed to give a more all-round performance for mixed conditions and offers similar levels of grip in the wet and dry over rocky, hard pack, and mixed terrains. It still gives good performance once the ground starts to turn more loose and soft. But that is where the S tread pattern comes in.

Pirelli ProWALL
The ProWALL casing uses 60tpi Nylon layers with sidewall reinforcement up from the bead to the start of the tread blocks.
Pirelli HardWALL
HardWALL adds a bead to bead protection layer as well as rubber inserts up from the bead to half way up the sidewall.

The Enduro S is aimed really at the loose over hard and loamy and sandy conditions, both in the dry and wet.

The final tread pattern is the R and is meant as a rear specific tire for mixed terrain. Covering a similar spectrum as the M tread pattern, it changes the design and spacing of the tread blocks to keep good rolling speed and braking grip while maintaining a good lifespan of the tire.

For compounds, the Smartgrip compound is formulated to offer good chemical grip and rolling speed while maintaining a high mileage. It's comparable to Maxxis's 3C Maxxspeed, while offering more mileage out of the tire. Compared to Schwalbe's Addix Speed the Smartgrip compound is said to offer more chemical grip for a small sacrifice on rolling speed and mileage. But in comparison to Schwalbe's Addix SpeedGrip compound, it supposedly matches the grip and rolling performance while offering more miles out of the tire.

Smartgrip Gravity ups the chemical grip of the tire compound, has a softer durometer rubber and gives a higher tear resistance to the rubber thanks to a chemical additive called Lignin. It's claimed to be on par with Maxxis's 3C Maxxterra while offering better tread wear properties than Schwalbe's Addix Soft compound.

For both compounds, Pirelli designed the grip of the tire to last the entire lifespan. So as the tire becomes more worn down, there is no point at which the grip levels suddenly drop off. Something that can happen with other multi-compound tires as the softer rubber wears and exposes the harder rubber underneath.

Claimed weights are 1,140g, 1,090g and 1,030g for the ProWALL M, S and R respectively in 29" x 2.6". For the HardWALL those weights increase to 1,230g, 1,180g and 1,140g in the M, S and R, again, all in 29" x 2.6".





Pirelli Scorpion eMTB R Mountainbike Connection Winter - Mirror Media

Scorpion eMTB

The updated Scorpion eMTB range uses the same M, S and R tread patterns, but simplifies things further by only offering only one casing - HyperWALL, something that Pirelli has a patent on. This construction was designed to provide the reliability of a DH tire but without the weight penalty. As eMTBs have become more capable, and their riders have expanded from the poorly stereotyped overweight and elderly, the tires regularly see some seriously high energy scenarios when you turn the wick up.

The construction of the HyperWALL casing is similar to the ProWALL and HardWALL casings offered in the enduro range, but adds multiple more protective inserts around the bead and tire as well as a bead flipper, to up the bead stability and attempt to improve the handling at low pressures.
Scorpion eMTB Details

Wheel Sizes: 27.5" & 29"
Widths: 2.6" (66mm) or 2.8" (71.1mm)
Casings: HyperWALL
Compounds: Smartgrip or Smartgrip Gravity
Tread Patterns: Mixed Conditions, Soft Conditions & Rear Specific
Bead: Folding
Recommended Rim Widths: 30mm (inner width) for 2.6", 35mm for 2.8"
Weight: 1,290g - 1,375g depending on tread and casing (claimed, 29 x 2.6", HyperWALL)
More info: pirelli.com

Pirelli found that the added weight of an eMTB, and so the energy when ridden hard, was meaning that many riders were upping the tire pressures to cope with the demands, which was adversely affecting the grip and comfort of the tire. HyperWALL is Pirelli's solution to that and is claimed to allow a much lower tire pressure on your eMTB without sacrificing the puncture protection and tire stability.

Pirelli HyperWALL
HyperWALL uses a similar construction to the HardWALL, but adds more puncture protection and the bead flipper insert, red, that should allow the tire to remain stable at lower tire pressures.

HyperWALL can be compared to Maxxis' Double Down casing, but the HyperWALL offers a higher rubber insert height along with the bead flipper protection that boosts the tire stability at lower pressure. Compared to Schwalbe's Super Gravity casing, the HyperWALL takes advantage of a higher rubber insert but at an overall lower tire weight.

Widths are up one step compared to the enduro range, with 2.6" being the narrowest offered in the 29" and 27.5" diameters. An additional 2.8" width is offered in only the 27.5" diameter, which fits with a lot of eMTBs being designed around a smaller rear wheel. The 2.6" width is designed around 30mm inner width rims, while the 2.8" width is designed around 35mm inner width rims.

Compounds are the same as the enduro range, with the Smartgrip and Smartgrip Gravity compounds. Tread patterns are also familiar, although slightly adjusted on the wider 2.8" width.

Claimed weights are 1,290g, 1,375g and 1,300g for the HyperWALL in M, S and R versions respectively, all in 29" x 2.6".



Options, Pricing & Availability

Scorpion Enduro tires are mostly available in the balck colour with the more discreet logos. But there are options with the more vibrant yellow logos and also a classic tan wall option. Prices are $89.90 US or €74.90. Only the yellow logo Scorpions are slightly more expensive at $94.90 US or €79.90.

Scorpion eMTB tires are only available in black with the more discreet logos and are priced at $94.90 US or €79.90.

All Scorpion enduro and eMTB tires are now available in shops and dealers, something that Pirelli has been keen to align with launching new products.


Pirelli Scorpioni Enduro amp eMTB Tires Photo Ga tan Rey - Shaperideshoot

Initial Impressions

Actual weights for the Scorpion Enduro S HardWALL in 29" x 2.6" are 1,216g, 1,235g and 1,227g. Making them, in true tire fashion, heavier than the claimed weights by between 36g and 55g. Which, compared to some other claimed versus real weights, is actually pretty close.

The taller tread block design and more spaced out pattern of the S version have been working well in the softer conditions that you find in the Alps in spring. Grip levels have been up there as well as predictability as you lean over onto the side blocks, and the tires do feel like they bite well into the soft ground, be that soft from its composition or soft from being wet.

When the tire does let go, it's still a predictable affair and there's no sense of a sudden snap loss of grip that can leave you second guessing what the tire is going to do. The Scorpion Enduro S allows you to just crack on, safe in the knowledge of how much grip there is when traction is there, but also when it isn't, that it'll let you slide controllably. After all, it's more fun when you're sliding around.

Normally I run more Double Down or Super Gravity and above types of casings, but the HardWALL casing has been holding its own so far. It definitely feels similar to its EXO+ and SuperTrail rivals in terms of tire stability and puncture protection, but they're been holding onto their air remarkably well, both in sharp impacts that compress the tire to the rim or burping from high cornering forces.

Pirelli Scorpioni Enduro amp eMTB Tires Photo Ga tan Rey - Shaperideshoot

The Scorpion eMTB M has been proving to live up to its name so far. Its mixed terrain design has been providing good predictable grip over a multitude of terrains and it shows no signs of leaving you wishing for more when you really lean the bike over and push hard. It does come across as a good all-around tire that you can have on your bike and not have to worry too much about what's coming its way.

The HyperWALL casing has also been delivering on its promise of increased tire stability at lower tire pressures. Granted, I'm not running Artic 4x4 crossing pressures, but at similar pressures to what I'd be running on non eMTBs (between 22psi and 26psi), the tires have felt sturdy and secure when you push hard while still providing good comfort and impact absorption. At times a lot of components fitted to eMTBs can feel undergunned, especially when you really go for it. But the HyperWALL Scorpions haven't been waving their white flag at all and do feel incredibly similar in feel to running a DH tire on an eMTB.

Unfortunately I've not yet given the tires enough of a beating to comment on the wear and if the grip levels do continue to last throughout the tire's lifespan. But the braking and cornering edges are holding up very well so far and show little sign of the usual tearing that you can see after many rides. It'll also be interesting to experiment with the eMTB tires to see just how low you can go with the pressures while still having good tire stability.

Given that Pirelli do admit that they maybe sacrificed grip for longevity on some of their initial tire offerings, these new Enduro and eMTB tires certainly do seem to have upped that grip level, while adding unique but well performing solutions suited to the demands of eMTBs.

PHOTOS: Gaëtan Rey - Shaperideshoot & Mountain Bike Connection Winter






176 Comments

  • 85 1
 I seriously wish that tire manufacturer would make a great $50 tire. Even if the tire was only offered consumer direct I’d buy it any day. I cannot understand spending $80 or more per tire.
  • 25 1
 Have you looked up Delirium tires? They are around the $50 range and meant to be decent.
  • 18 0
 Take a look at Delium.
  • 10 0
 Nahh guys, you need some wolfpack tires.
  • 11 0
 A few years ago I thought Vee Tire Co were going to do this, but I see their prices have gotten pretty ridiculous as well.
  • 70 4
 When my last front tire on my motorcycle is $110 and is a performance tire from Pirelli, and my mountain bike tire is $80…and one is maybe of significantly more rubber and steel belt…there’s a problem.
  • 1 0
 @carraig042: Also CST tires who have their own XC team but the good stuff is always sold out or on back order
  • 84 0
 You can get 2 Mike Bears and health insurance for that price.
  • 11 13
 @nickfranko: if it was all so simple as in motorized vehicles. They could just build a super hardcore 3000g enduro tire and sell it for 30€.
Cars have that stupid logic, yet buyers follow it: Bigger is more expensive. They can sell a big truck for 20000€ more than a Smartcar, without any extra technology. They just need an extra ton of steel, which costs about 1000€. Quite a margin, I guess...
  • 62 11
 From many brands 6700$ doesnt even get you the top spec model of any bike.

But you know what else 6700$ can get you? A new Kawasaki KLR 650 with fuel injection. 500$ more even gets you ABS and a few other features.

The (pedal)bike industry has gotten very proficient at ripping people off.
  • 8 3
 @trollhunter: I can't find any justifications for tires that require a lot less rubber than vehicle tires and costing the same or sometimes even more. I can only see why Pirelli is just getting into making bike tires - it's because the mountain biking industry has become a fashion to make a killing on. The stupid thing is, a bunch of people will just throw the money to get the latest even when it's not the greatest.
  • 7 0
 @CSharp: the rubber price has risen 30% since january. It's almost 2€/kg now. Still, rubber prices neither justify the price of car nor bicycle tires.
  • 7 0
 Michelin use to have great prices on the Wild Enduros, could be found right around $50. Wish I bought a bunch of them... $70 for T9 Sprcialized tires seems to be the best deal right now. $100 for 3C Maxxis now? WTF...
  • 3 2
 @tofhami: You can say that for pretty much everything else. But yet, we need to still pay for necessities. Bike tires are not a necessity. Luckily, I bought all tires for my vehicles and for my bike before everything sky rocketed and before the price increases are blamed on supply chain issues. We live in an MSRP world. Sadly, it's demand driven and that MSRP rises due to that itch to buy new things.
  • 34 7
 @endoplasmicreticulum: I think we all have this idea that materials are the only costs involved in producing bikes, tires, components, etc, and therefore there must be massive profit margins in the bike industry and they’re just taking advantage of us dumb riders. The prices of bikes are high indeed, but I think it’s more of a function of the engineering needed to make these things lighter, stronger, better in every way. I see people talking about how a $80-100 MTB tire is ridiculous because we can also buy car/truck tires for similar prices. But think of it this way: car/truck tires are relatively mature products, not requiring a tremendous amount of development every year to keep ahead of the competition. MTB tires pretty much have to keep evolving because the sport has competition at its core. And it’s probably more challenging for MTB tire engineers to develop tires that excel in grip, wear, toughness, casing stiffness, rolling resistance, etc, and then also have multiple models of each to suit various riding styles (XC/Trail/Enduro/DH/E-bike). All that development has to be expensive. And then to do all of that without the economy of scale that car/truck tire manufacturers have is naturally going to result in relatively higher prices.
  • 21 2
 @nickfranko: POV : you just discovered economies of scale
  • 3 0
 I have Delirium tires on 2 of my bikes and they are great. I have the reinforced casing. No flats and they wear less than maxxis.
  • 10 4
 @endoplasmicreticulum: you’re comparing a top of the line bike with a non top of the line motor bike. A top of the line pro level mx bike is like 6 figures. A top of the line bike is like a tenth of the price.
  • 12 9
 @BuckNasty44904: That's always the first counter-argument and I think its such bs. You're going to tell me the mtb industry has way more R&D into it, justifying costs, than the automotive or powersports industries? Guarantee Ford, Toyota, Honda, Kawasaki etc. have a much larger engineering/R&D teams and budgets than any mtb company. You don't think those companies have tough competition with another and they don't need to develop each year to stay ahead? Its a stupid argument people buy to think that justifies the cost of a pedal bike.
  • 8 10
 @yoimaninja: the main reason for the high cost of pedal bikes is that people want to ride what pros ride. If you’re happy riding an aluminum frame with nx from a big company like giant you won’t pay that much for a bike.

If you want carbon everything with wireless shifting and all the shit a pro rides you will pay more.

If you buy the most basic motorbike you can it will cost less than the highest end mountain bike but I’d hope that isn’t a huge surprise. A truly top of the line motor bike costs a lot more than 10k so its not really a valid comparison to compare the cheapest motorbikes to the most expensive bikes. Compare an aluminum frame nx or deore build from a company like giant to actually have a fair comparison.
  • 16 2
 @Daledenton: Dude the Knolly review that was posted today was is $6200 for an aluminum frame and GX.
  • 12 3
 @rustiegrizwold: lol it has fox factory suspension, it is a boutique brand and it has titanium hardware. A giant trance with deore is 2600 or with slx and fox perfomance its 3700. No one is forcing you to ride boutique brands or get top of the line suspension.
  • 3 0
 Decathlon is making a tyre with Vee, pricing is around 35eur:

www.decathlon.be/fr/p/pneu-vtt-rockrider-grip-500-27-5-x-2-4/_/R-p-331495
  • 4 0
 @Bushmaster123: if you are willing abit longer for shipping, try Bike24.
  • 2 2
 @endoplasmicreticulum: Pretty sure I can't take a KLR down Hardline.
  • 1 1
 A great tire for $50 when they already sell great tires for $80 .. maybe I'm missing the logic there.

I think what you meant to say was a "good tire for $50", those already exist Wink
  • 4 0
 @BuckNasty44904:

agree with your statement, Nasty Buck.

But dayum switching over from tires to frames, the new Hightower frame is $4100. I don’t doubt it’s quality or performance but damn, drill a couple holes in the frame and then rerelease it at a premium as the corporate overlords have demanded.

Santa Cruz is a high volume company now with economies of scale but a stumpy evo carbon frame is $2900. Yeah sure Spesh is higher volume still but I think we can still see which companies are pushing the price envelope for profit’s sake.
  • 3 0
 I cannot understand why those same tires cost so much more westward of the Atlantic. If I check the price for a Maxxis Assegai WT 2.5 x 29 exo+ before sales tax, it's $91 at Jenson, 49 euros at Bike-Components.de . Wake up America!
  • 4 0
 Meanwhile it takes me like $80 to fill my tank of gas. $90 for a bike tire that lasts all season isn’t so bad in comparison. Also my CrossClimate 2s were like $150 a piece.
  • 1 0
 Scratch that, the CrossClimates are now $170 a piece since I bought them about two years ago. Don’t forget inflation, material, and shipping costs have wrecked prices for everything recently.
  • 3 2
 @nickfranko: Economies. Of. Scale.
  • 2 0
 @Sethsg: Put Delirium on my GFs trail bike, Versatile (front) and Steady (rear), seem well comparable to assegai and aggressor that I run. Very happy with them, great on wet roots etc, way better then E13.. only $98 (shipped) for the set straight from their site.. Recommended.
  • 1 0
 @endoplasmicreticulum: uh the KLR 650 is bottom of the barrel performance, so yes a mid-grade Kona is defiintely cheaper.
  • 4 2
 I am assuming, all the rubber compounds are being produced in the Ukraine, hence the high price.. That at least seems to be the reason for everything and anything now....
  • 1 0
 @zoobab2: did you try them? Are they any good?
  • 1 0
 Give Wolfpack Enduro a try.
  • 5 0
 @Daledenton: top of the line pro level mx bike is 10K, not 100k, dude.. factory team prototype bells and whistles obviously not included, but you simply cant buy them, so it is pointless to put a price on… same as in mtb.. what you can buy, is 10K max for MX, and 13K for MTB..
  • 2 1
 @trellis-opportunity-red: vee tires are garbage
  • 5 1
 @nickfranko: Standard mountain biking overpricing. I made a similar comment a few years ago regarding Renthal. I could get a Renthal sprocket for my superbike for less than a Renthal chainring. Despite the fact that they're both manufactured in the same factory, with the same machines, same material, same machine operators and same overheads...
  • 1 1
 @endoplasmicreticulum: Yet, if you are competing you'll drop another 20 grand on that bike. You'll change hubs, rims, spokes, tires, forks, shocks, will take off all of the aestethics and put new plastics to make it slimmer, will add some sort of navigation system.
This is also a distorted vew of a motorcycle price compared to a bike. Also, bike suspension has way, way more technology, bikes are made to take more out of the rider in specific ways. motorcycles can rely on their engines. And motorcycles are one size fits all. We know it doesn't fit, but they tell otherwise.
  • 2 3
 @BuckNasty44904: "a truck tire costs 2x more than a bike tire!"

Well, put that tire in your bike then.
  • 1 1
 @rustiegrizwold: GX is compared to a common clutch pack on a honda. Everybody that abuses their honda will upgrade the clutch pack and clutch lever.
  • 4 1
 @WasatchEnduro: engineered lightness costs a shitton more than reinforced. Or you could take the Colin Chapman approach.
  • 2 1
 @endoplasmicreticulum: yeah, and you can buy a mountain bike for 1500 that is fine which would be analogous to the klr. A ktm 500xcw runs about 12k which would be a little closer of a comparison. The klr is a dinosaur pig.
  • 1 1
 @yoimaninja: you totally missed the point bro
  • 3 1
 @GZMS: with mountain biking you are much closer to what a pro rides with a stock bike then mx. Sure the most expensive mx bike you can buy from a company isn’t super expensive but if you want to get it closer in performance to a pro level setup like you can buy for a pedal bike you’re dropping a lot more cash than a factory level pedal bike. To upgrade your suspension on an mx bike it’s a couple grand, flash the ecu and redo the internals of the engine for more power and that’s more money, upgrade the clutch and that’s more and the list goes on.

You certainly can buy upgrades for an mx bike you don’t have to be pro to do it. It’s just expensive so it doesn’t really make sense for people to do. But it’s pointless to compare a factory spec mountain bike cost to a consumer mx bike and pretend they’re both top of the line. Would you rather biking goes mx style where if you want what the pros ride you have to buy everything aftermarket yourself so the top of the line bikes they sell go for less?
  • 1 0
 @ak-77: shhhh... shut. up. mannnn lol. there was a time maybe 10-12 years ago, where bike-components had Magic Mary's for literally like $20 a piece. me and 4 other dudes ordered like 20 of them and split the shipping. it was totally nuts. some stuff they won't ship to the states, some stuff is the same price more or less, but its always worth checking. there's some components from them that end up being almost half price to what they are here if you're piecing a bike together. always good service from them.
  • 3 0
 @GZMS: you can build one. and get most all the parts if you know who to call or where to look. even still though, probably looking at more like $40-50k including the new bike, not 6-figures. regardless, the mtb cost to material/technology/machining time ratio against a built MX bike is still far skewed. that is not even slightly a 1:1 comparison. moreover, you can get a 190whp sportbike with traction control for hardly more than a top tier mtb. again, the suspension/brakes are low tier in comparison to the industry's top tier racing components where you start talking about carbon forks and brakes and ti vented caliper pistons, and dry-break titanium quick disconnect fittings, etc... but the fact that it has a computer and dash, alone, make this an absurd conversation, let alone a working motor and all else. i can't say that machining a brembo master cylinder is really any less different process wise than machining a trickstuff one besides size and slightly less material, but its odd considering what one machine can do compared to the bicycle in all aspects to be paying the same amount of money. for what its worth, an Ohlins mtb shock IS still like $500 less than an Ohlins motorbike shock. *shrug*
  • 2 0
 ...plus $5 extra for the yellow scorpion logo.
I don't get it; there are plenty of good tires if you want to spend $100, we really don't need any more. This is just another decent manufacturer jumping into the high end/ebike tire market to get some of that sweet rubber money, adding nothing compeling to the equation.
  • 1 0
 @slayerdegnar: I think I'm the same as you and had the name wrong the entire time; it's actually "Delium" if we're talking about the same company.
#TIL
  • 2 2
 @Daledenton: Ehhh thats another common argument I have a hard time buying. "We ride close to what the pros ride". No, no we do not. Don't believe me? Go look at all the pit photos from the UCI races and see how different those bikes are.

The factories aren't spec'ing us prototype/custom built frames, custom machined linkages and other bits, electronic adjusting suspension, blackbox suspension, carbon fiber everything, etc. Yes if you want you can upgrade that if you want for thousands more. Maybe this argument was more true at one point but incase you haven't noticed the bikes are getting more expensive and the components on them are getting shittier. SX groupsets? bottom barrel rockshox, sr suntour, and x-fusion? tektro or not even deore level shimanos? Yet their price tags are still $3,000+ okay.
  • 1 0
 I usually buy a decent tire for 30/40 Euros, never bought a tire in that price range, is this the only product that americans pay more than europeans?
  • 2 0
 @brajal: Hayes and Magura brakes. some DT stuff. some Hope stuff sometimes. everything else more or less the same so far in my travels.
  • 5 1
 @yoimaninja: who is using a custom built frame? As far as I am aware no one in ews, xc or dh is using a custom frame except for the one guy who builds his own frame for himself. Some riders use prototypes but not many and they come out a year or two later. Most pros do not use electronically adjustable suspension but you can certainly buy a bike with it. The carbon parts pros use are widely available and on most top end builds. Very few pros are on prototype black box suspension and it usually gets released soon. So basically the only thing you said that is actually relevant is custom linkages and again not many riders are on custom linkages. Ricky carmichaels mx bike was rumoured to be 125kish no pedal bike will ever cost that much.

As I said previously a giant trance with deore and marzocchi suspension is 2600. It is an excellent bike for the price and more than the majority of people really need in terms of performance. It’s not the industries fault that people want boutique brands and high end parts that they don’t really need.
  • 2 1
 @Daledenton: hey hey hey stay on topic: Bitching and complaining with no logic, facts or reasoning. Long, thought out and factual post should get voted down to oblivion!

Buy to my needs, get serious! I would need a e-fatbike with a rack on the back for the post ride beer cooler not a giant trance!
  • 1 0
 @Daledenton: gared steinke would say otherwise
  • 2 0
 @Daledenton: whats in there for 125k? Maybe that is counting all the r&d and testing, or maybe it is counting different setups (ie if he has 2 shocks to change between, then both are counted towards costs)? But just manufacturing a copy of his bike plus slapping some profit margin, i doubt it is so expensive. That said, I only know about mx tangentially.
  • 2 0
 @GZMS: there isn't. magazines and the like always spit out stuff like that. you can build a competitive WSBK for that much money, a Moto2 bike for probably about the same or slightly less. on some level though the engineers and fab dudes can just put random price tags on 1-off stuff cause what's there to compare it to? there's substantially more parts, more expensive parts, more electronics, and fancier stuff in both of those than there is in a pro MX bike. i know somebody with a works KTM factory moto. i know somebody with a Kalex Moto2 bike. that KTM is mega rad, but there's substantially more involved in every part of the Moto2 bike.
  • 1 0
 @BuckNasty44904: those same tires are $50-60 in other countries though... Schwalbe Magic Mary SG 27.5" costed me €55 per tire just before the COVID crisis. It was already a $100 tire in the US by that time.
  • 2 0
 @tofhami: so that's €2,40 for a Schwalbe 1200g Super Gravity tire?
  • 2 0
 @BuckNasty44904: you mean the highly engineered and continuously evolving technology in any of the 25 tires that are a Minion ripoff, or in the 25 tires that are a Magic Mary ripoff, or just the 100 XC tires that have a few low profile knobs, with all of them having a more expensive Snakeskin/EXO/DD version with an extra layer of thicker rubber on the inside? As compared to motorcycle double or triple compound tires that have to both be supple and grippy in the cold rain and stable when a 450 lbs motorcycle with a 200 lbs rider is canyon carving in the hot sun? Motorcycle and car tires that have a big change in tire pattern every couple of years?
  • 1 3
 @Mac1987: just saying: outweighing the rubber in gold doesn't make much sense.
We are riding super high end stuff. You can get mtb tires for 15€, yet I wouldn't wanna ride them.
I don't care which tires I have on my car, I just take the cheapest ones. They are still 80€ or so (don't know actually, I couldn't care less)
  • 3 1
 Coming from the motorcycle (ie. superbike type) racing world... $80 per tire that could last anywhere from (even) 1 month to 8 months... is a hellva deal. We used to burn through a set (ie. ~$400 per tire) in a weekend... or if feeling frugal we'd stretch it out over a couple weekends. I count my blessings in the MTB world
  • 3 1
 PB Comment Myth #1 of many: bike industry is profiteering and that's why tires cost more than I want them to.

TLDR: Good, Fast, Cheap - pick two.

By asking for a $50, awesome tire, you are stating what you value. The bike industry is as close to a perfect competition market as you can get, and so this tire costing more than you are willing to pay is an example of that. There are $50 tires. Likely some OK ones too. But you get to do the work finding them, and waiting for them to arrive from wherever they originate on the planet, and don't get to benefit from PB reviews, buying it locally & conveniently, when your weekend ride plans hinge on getting a new, good tire ASAP, or having someone to get your tubeless sorted when you can't figure out why it won't hold air (it's the rim tape - it's almost always the rim tape).

You want convenience, high quality and low cost - that doesn't exist. Pick what you value, vote with your wallet. Stop complaining about it.

Long overdue, long version inspired by this comment thread here: https://www.indycycleshop.ca/indy-stories/good-fast-cheap-pick-two
  • 3 0
 @CDT77: the point isn't that MTB parts are exactly as expensive as motorcycle or car parts (although sometimes it is ridiculously close). The point is that the technological development in MTB is often very exaggerated. Yes, MTB gets better every year, but not at a pace that's greater than that of motorcycle or car development, and most developments in suspension or tire technology are derivatives of earlier moto or car developments (albeit adapted for bike use).
  • 2 0
 @b-roc: Top mtb tires, made in Asia by a US company, cost around $50 in Europe. The same tires cost $90 in the US. So what is the value of these tires? This is not a matter of 'cost of living' type of price difference. Most bikes and parts have similar or higher prices in EU than in US. Unless the US has some kind of huge import tax on tires, consumers are getting a bad deal. Either the manufacturers, or the shops, but likely both, are making more money per tire selling in US than in other parts of the world. As long as people pay the price, they are showing that they find this acceptable.
  • 1 2
 @northernwig: Splitting hairs a bit here, but the tooth profile of a narrow wide mountain bike chainring is a fair bit more complex than a motorcycle chainring tooth profile and thus requires more machining time, more complicated tooling, higher precision, and more material waste per unit. That is likely why a part that is made in the same factory with the same machines, materials, operators, etc costs more.
  • 1 1
 @yoimaninja: I'm using shimano prototype brakes no one else (or very little people) are using. And absolutely no pro is using this.
  • 54 8
 “Continuing their push into the MTB world of tires“

Aka, “These numbskulls will pay the same price as a car tire for a bike tire that uses 1/4 of the material? Count us in”
  • 14 12
 zero real technology in a cheap $80 summer car tire, anything legit is $100+ easy.
  • 9 0
 I think car tires use something like 15 to 25 times as much material as bicycle tires based on weight depending on if you are driving a giant truck or small passenger car.
  • 15 1
 @hi-dr-nick: then let’s look at motorcycle tires, which still contain many times the materials. They’re only a bit more expensive, yet have real engineering and development. Like I said in another post, my pirelli front tire was $110.

There’s no justifying these prices outside of it just being for suckers that will keep paying no matter how much higher they crank the prices in this hobby.
  • 22 3
 performance car tires start at like $300 though ...
  • 20 2
 You can buy cheap bike tires just like the cheap car tires you’re referring to. A top of the line car tire is like 400 bucks and a top of the line bike tire is about 100.

You can find bike tires for a lot less than 100 dollars just like you can find car tires for a lot less than 400, it’s stupid to compare budget car tire prices to high end mountain bike tires.
  • 3 1
 tyres are great
  • 3 0
 That's right. lol. If a car tire weighs 12kg, then it's about 1/12 the QTY of rubber too.

No liability issues to worry if the tire fails. They all know the racket and no new player wants to upset the pricing scheme.
  • 3 0
 @nickfranko: raw material costs will only make up a small fraction of the price. There won't be $30 more value in raw materials in a m/c tyre.
  • 2 4
 @Daledenton: how you define a high quality performance mtb tire? I ride in rocky, dry, loose terrain and all brands I tried, you get torn side knobs in about 8 rides, wear down as fast, grip for about 2/3 rides beacause of torn knobs and what's left already lost their shape, puncture resistance is non existant apart from dh casing and if you hit wet roots in a creek crossing mid summer you're f*cked, hows that compared to a cheap set of tires for my 4x4 that I have none of these issues and outlasted my previous premium priced off road set. Know I buy anything that's in offer, dh rated and done, not commited to a specific brand as I used to because it doesn't worth spending that much and get so little in return, mtb tires are ridiculously priced for what they offer. Total rip offs
  • 3 2
 @adespotoskyli: performance mtb tires prioritize grip/speed over durability. If you want a tire that won’t wear out get a cheap bike park tire with super hard rubber that’s heavy like your 4x4 tires, they cost like 40 bucks. It’ll be cheap and last a long time, just gonna be extra sketchy when you hit wet roots.
  • 2 1
 @Daledenton: what makes you think that performance should last 8 rides max and how half shot tires with just 4 rides, give grip, stopping power or speed? Ok speed yes, your braking traction is long gone.... cheap super hard tires that last? Have not seen such a thing yet. Every compound from maxxis wears out like a faber castel eraser. The difference is soft compounds last 1/2 ride.

That's were the marketing bs of mtb comes in,performance lasts a few laps. my heavy 4x4 tires outperformed my previous 4x4 tires in all conditions, they grip and also last as well. Problem is, there's no performance mtb tires. don't last, get f*cked pretty easily, quality is a hit and miss and are quite expensive.
  • 2 0
 @mariomtblt: but don't need to be replaced 2x a year, and you also get closer to "performance" in a car tire a lot faster than bike tires that seem to go $10, $20, $25, $35, $75, $90
  • 2 0
 @plyawn: yeah that is a good point. Plus I was thinking that my Michelin PSS come with a 30k mile warranty haha, I'm not so sure now
  • 3 2
 @Daledenton: thank you so much for your sane and reasonable commenting, and for shining a light on how comparisons should be done Smile . It gives me a little hope when one in ten commentators uses common sense in putting together an argument.
  • 2 1
 @adespotoskyli: I don’t think a tire should last 8 rides max. And my tires last a lot longer than that even when I was a park rat riding 20+ hours a week every week. In fact I worked in the shop and would slap on peoples old maxxis tires cause I couldn’t afford them new and it never made me ride any slower (actually makes you faster having a bit less tread and I could get 20 plus park days on take off tires, I’d only swap em when I found new ones). No clue how you go through tires so fast unless you’re skidding through stuff.

Maxxis also has some of the fastest wearing tires, my other shop friends who had a similar amount of money wouldn’t run maxxis cause they cost too much for how long they last. Schwalbe, Michellin and conti all make bike park tires that last a very long time and are super cheap just not super grippy.
  • 2 1
 I hate to say but there is a reason MTB stuff is so expensive, and that is weight. Do you care how much a car tyre weighs? Or an MX tyre? Do you care how much your MX frame weighs or your cars engine? MTB stuff needs to be strong but also relatively light, this is what makes parts for MTBs expensive compared to motorbikes and cars etc.
  • 2 0
 @melonhead1145: nr 1 reason is that too many people want to show swag and bling.. if it is not yeti/sc/sworks/colnago/pinarello then it is meh, not interested.. so every brand has to compete with those names, producing superbikes, and crafting luxury image, and they have to finance that by upping prices for low to mid tier stuff..
  • 2 0
 @hi-dr-nick: you mean the real technology in any of the 25 tires that are a Minion ripoff, or in the 25 tires that are a Magic Mary ripoff, or just the 100 XC tires that have a few low profile knobs, with all of them having a more expensive Snakeskin/EXO/DD version with an extra layer of thicker rubber on the inside? As compared to motorcycle double or triple compound tires that have to both be supple and grippy in the cold rain and stable when a 450 lbs motorcycle with a 200 lbs rider is canyon carving in the hot sun? Motorcycle and car tires that have a big change in tire pattern every couple of years?
  • 3 0
 @melonhead1145: I don't think much expense is incurred making MTB tires light. I suspect it's just a lucrative money making opportunity that the bigger players (Michelin, Pirelli et al) are realizing is too good to pass over. And they don't want to upset the pricing structure, because consumers are paying large $$$.
  • 2 0
 @Daledenton: I spend 10 days in morzine with the same rear tire, park trails are trimmed, the same tire can't stand more than two full weekend riding where I live, dry, loose sharp rocks and high temps ruin tires, but again, why should I pay premium for something that won't last and at the same time it disintigrates half a trail down? How's that a performance tire?
That's what I asked you, how do you rate performance? By the amount of traction that last 3 rides the most? Wear rate? Puncture protection? The saying here goes that maxxis never puncture, because you change them so often. maxxis wear rate is by far the worst, close enough was the old shwalbe mixtures that the side knobs fall appart just by looking at them. Michelin last long, grip tremendously well even when are worn down because knobs hold their shape and don't look like moles and have good puncture resistance and were half the price of maxxis, now are even more expensive, I buy what ever is on sale now
  • 3 0
 @njcbps: if you take in to account that bicycle tires cost about 100 times less per unit for transportation and have no legislation/safety/standards to cover different requirements of global market, instead all you need is a "good looking" thread pattern to look it's up to the job, pick a fancy name, as many acronyms you can fit on the side walls, make a mould and voila! Mtb performance tire my a$$! cost more than budget car tires for no apparent reason.
  • 1 1
 @mariomtblt: agree, we are talking about a top-of-the-line MTB tire, we need to compare it to same top of the line car tire, which is 300-500$ depending on the size

20$ kinda on a commuter bike will last you long life, similar to corrola tires.
  • 2 0
 @adespotoskyli: Agree, the safety standard issue is huge - tire MFG's must ensure their tires don't fail. This would be an added cost.

It's similar to everything else in overpriced MTB world - the prices reflect what the market will bear.
  • 27 2
 Deciding which MTB tires to buy is an awful user experience. I think a lot of people buy Maxxis by default because they already understand the product structure and know what they're getting. I'm sure the other guys produce equally good product but figuring out their marketing is an absolute nightmare.

I found a $30 coupon for some michelin mtb tires last week. Spent 45 minutes trying to decipher michelin's current equivalent product to maxxis DHF/assegai/DHr2 w/ maxxgrip or maxxterra casing in exo+ or DD and in the end just gave up cuz I couldn't 100% figure it out.
  • 11 1
 This is so accurate -- the tire manufacturers' product structures are ridiculous, and combine that with the retailers' inaccurate product pages and their habit of only having sales on one size/compound/rim size/casing yet claiming they're all on sale until you click and it's infuriating.
  • 3 0
 I've run Maxxis on and off for a few years and frankly, I still get confused.....I know Assgai and DHR / DHF, beyond that, no clue what any of the tread patterns are intended for.
  • 2 1
 I don't go with the marketing BS that's put out for a product. I just read the comments of people who either like or hate the tires they've ridden on or ask your riding buddies who ride the same trails. The only real thing I look at are tread patterns, casing, rubber softness, and price. Weight might be a concern if I'm going to be doing a lot of climbing. A lot of people buy Maxxis is based on marketing. However, I find that this brand has thinner widths than their claimed widths - this is verified by myself and others after putting the tires on. They look a lot thinner and when you put the calipers on them, it's pretty much verified even at the widest part of the tread pumped up to 40psi or deflated to maximize the tread width. It's like you buy 2.5" tires and they come out at 2.2"! Instead of calling themselves Maxxis, they should rename their brand to be Thinnis. Then, they come out with wide versions for wide rims while other tire manufacturers like Schwalbe are true to their claims without having these kinds of marketing gimmicks.
  • 4 2
 @RadBartTaylor: I know the dissector and aggressor can be run as a rear tire. DHR2 can be a good front tire for braking performance. The rest pffftttt no idea, except shorty is the mud tire.

Pirelli, Michelin, Vittoria, Schwalbe no clue and im not going to spend 3 days deciphering their idiotic marketing/product structure.
  • 3 0
 It’s easy right now. But whatever your local shop has in stock because somehow you forgot you are going on a bike vacation in a week and your tires are shot. Hopefully a Butcher T9 2.3 on the front and a Eliminator T7 2.3 on the rear doesn’t suck too much…
  • 1 0
 @loudv8noises:
If you are willing to experiment it is not that difficult. All you have to dechiper is which rubber is the softest and go from there. I usually go with the most open thread pattern with grippiest rubber and lightest casing I can get for front and hardest rubber mid weight (1300g-ish) casing and thread pattern with the most knobs and I was never really dissapointed with my choices and I never replace tires with the same model I had before. You just have to figure out what you want from tire and go from there. Currently on der baron/hans dampf (sg/soft) combo and for what I ride I am very happy with it, but when I will be buyin a new front tire I will probably go with something else just because I can lol.
  • 6 0
 WTB probably does the best job with easy to understand options. Light/tough casings and fast/grip compounds.
  • 15 0
 Thats quite a bad example, though. Michelin has one of the most clearly labeled tyre ranges around.
There are XC tyres, labeled "XC".
Trail tyres are labeled "AM".
Enduro tyres are called "Enduro".
Front tyres are called "Front", the rear is called "Rear".

There is only one casing option. The super tough tyres for racing are called "Racing Line". The only slightly tricky part is figuring out that the Magi-X compound is more grippy but requires lots of speed and commitment, while the other compound (Gum-X) is the allround solution.

Maxxis, on the other hand, has by far the most obscure and incomprehensible product descriptions and naming scheme.
The 15+ XC tyres are all labeled differently.
Enduro and trail tyres are labeled "DH" (F or R).
Or "Assegai" (whats an Assegai?) or Dissector or Aggressor or High Roller 2 or Shorty.....
For casing, you want EXO for trail, or maybe on the front for Enduro, or DD. Or EXO+? But wait, there is old Exo+ and new Exo+ being sold at the same time!
Do i need the "WT" Version or not? Why is the 2.3" size wider than the 2.35"?

Good luck figuring out what you need.
  • 2 0
 Worst mich is by far better than the best maxxis, start from there.
  • 2 0
 @somebody-else: I had a butcher T7 2.3 and I would name it as a "fast rolling" tire even,in the gravity casing T9. I quite like it for an enduro bike you would pedal long distances. The Eliminator looks really good for trail bike,I bet it is quite faster than the butcher.
Now I had a Michelin wild AM2,it has more grip than the T7 butcher but is a slow rolling tire.
  • 3 0
 @Ttimer: just buy whatever is on sale
  • 3 0
 @Ttimer: this maxxis is by far the worst at their nomenclature. It helps that they are expensive as sh*t in Germany compared to the other manufacturers so I don't even cross-shop them if they don't have a crazy deal going on
  • 2 0
 @homerjm: nice! I’m putting them on my Enduro for vacation riding, more climbing than I’m used to but also higher speed descents than we have locally. Hopefully it works out LOL
  • 1 1
 100% - this is super frustrating for all...and yet, we have people that insist on only riding on a half-caf, extra hot, no whip, soy milk, white mocha tire, rather than just riding the rad coffee with one cream one we suggest for 75% of the money...
  • 20 1
 Was Pinkbike down for quiet some time or was that just me?
  • 6 0
 You got a 503 error too?
  • 15 2
 You can buy a department store bike for the price of the average pair of MTB tire. Can you buy a road worthy car for the price of a top end car tire? I challenge you Tom and Christina!

Christina picks a top end set of mtb tires and gets to buy a bike for that amount of money and do a hotlap ( bring back the hotlap now that COVID is over mostly) against her trek. She can put the new tires on it.

Tom buys the most expensive set of tires at his local Canadian tire and then need to buy a car off kijiji or Autotrader for that amount. He then needs to use the car to shuttle the PB crew for a weekend of riding. ( He is allowed to spend the price of the tires a second time to get it to pass the road safety test, we don't want them to die)
  • 11 1
 @pink505 TireRack has Pirelli PZeros for fitment on a Lambo at $1500k each, so you could certainly find a road worth car for the price of 4, and perhaps even for 1 depending on where you live.
  • 8 0
 @dthomp325: 1.5 million dollars????
  • 1 0
 @jdkellogg: nah, typo. Only a cool $1.5k per tire.
  • 2 0
 @dthomp325: those are off the shelf tires too, pretty sure i've heard top gear/grand tour talking about $20k per tires for some of the "we're only making 25 of these" Ferraris.

And i bet a retail priced P-Zero (F1 tires) would cost more than that.
  • 16 0
 90s Velociraptor vibes
  • 1 0
 Yep, definitely looks like the WTB velociraptor
  • 9 1
 I think that Lukasik already earned few years salary by riding them in top 5 in EWS ... I mean, do we need any other recommendation? Mybe a wet or more rocky EWS, but I think there were plenty sharp rocks in Italy. Good to have another solid option.
  • 9 0
 Funny because he had a DHR2 on the back all race
  • 2 0
 @Lololmalol: If so, then not so good especially that he is sponsored by Pirelli Wink Still people will only notice Pirelli in the team's name Wink
Or maybe those were prototype Pirelli DHR ripoff?
  • 1 0
 @lkubica: Rather was riding on a new front tyre and it looked very similar to the DHRII.
  • 3 0
 @Guncar: I was stood next to his bike. It was a very poorly black painted maxxis DHR2
  • 6 0
 Every time with the car tire price comparison. The two products are about as related as a handlebar is to an aluminum fence post. I don't mean the bike tire is higher tech or more developed, that's false, but it's simply not the same product. We pay luxury pricing for the bike tire simply because we're willing. If that bothers us we should just stop doing it. When Delium starts taking significant market share from Maxxis, prices will stop going up. But it's unlikely, because we're a bunch of brand slaves
  • 1 0
 By the way, had a super positive experience with Pirelli winter tires on my wife's Afford, they were fantastic but it doesn't make me want to try these. Because it's not really a related product!
  • 8 2
 I cant compare the tread pattern to Maxxis. Dissector in the front, DHR in the rear with the M and the R. That's as close as I can get. I'm so confused how to make a Pinkbike comment here.
  • 2 0
 I tried some Pirelli gravel tires on my Evil this winter, and am super impressed... Fast, smooth, decent grip for a slightly more than file tread pattern. I'm a pretty hardcore Maxxis guy, but these are definitely on my radar... They were all out of stock last time I needed, tires, though.
  • 2 0
 So the grippiest (weighs as much as a boat anchor) version is only as grippy as MaxxTerra (which should be called Max Terror in the PNW) - ah no thanks I'll pass and stick with a tyre that actually grips to the things I roll over with it.
  • 2 0
 Can someone explain to me, why there is a need for ebike-specific tires? Do they do anything different than our lame analog tires? The only thing I could imagine, is the usage, as the higher torque would wear them down faster.. but even that must be marginal?
  • 2 0
 I imagine an ebike specific tire could have a DH casing but with a harder compound for durability, where the average DH tire ranges from soft to very soft. The driving edge on a rear tire would not be ramped as most bike tires are, since climbing traction moves up the priority list above low rolling resistance. And with weight less of a concern, tread blocks could be really big for stability.

I wrote most of this out before realizing I was describing the Schwalbe Eddy Current... #notanebiker
  • 2 0
 I’ve grown to believe the E label is code for parts that are meant for people like me who are over 200lbs. Me and my analog bike are still heavier than the 150lb person, who normal bikes are designed for, that gets on an E-bike.
  • 2 0
 mtb companies charge these ridiculous prices because people willingly drop the money for it. stop giving them the money and we will see bikes and components drop in price. i can overall my MX bike easily compared to what i can do for my DH and enduro bikes. i can also buy MX tires way cheaper that last 3-5 times as a over priced mtb tire that gets shredded in one good dh run.. the mtb crowd has allowed this to happen and now everyone that wants to get into has to suffer.
  • 2 1
 Why do their mtb tires have the same name as the truck tire? The Scorpion treads for trucks have mediocre off road performance and I always replace/resell them rather than drive them. This makes me NOT want to try their "Scorpion" mtb tires.
  • 7 0
 They also share the same name as their Moto Enduro tires which are highly respected. There is more likely a greater chance of cross familiarity between users of both 2 wheeled sports than whatever mall crawler truck tires that also share the same name.
  • 2 0
 Pirelli use the scorpion name for loads of tyres. Seems to be attached to any off-road or ones with at least some pretence of off- road ability.

So they have them for, mtb, trucks, mx, enduro, trail / adventure mc’s and the list goes on.

As you say most seem to be mediocre.
  • 1 5
flag jaycubzz (Jun 27, 2022 at 8:32) (Below Threshold)
 @JFutey: aint no mall crawlers running pirellis bud.
  • 5 0
 Would buy them instantly if there was a big P ZERO logo on the sidewall.
  • 2 0
 Why not give it the same name, just like their A/T truck tires it has gimmicky dumb-looking knobs.
  • 6 0
 @jaycubzz: Bud, there are so many mall crawlers running Pirelli's, they come in some of the lowest profile sizes anyone makes A/T tires in.
  • 2 0
 @Rogerolini: Change the P to and R and you have your nickname haha..JK
Black Sharpie?
  • 1 0
 @Rogerolini: Their road bike offerings have the P-Zero logo, a 622 rim is a 622 rim, you can fit some 700x28s on your MTB, Buy away.
  • 2 0
 @Bushmaster123: Excellent idea!
  • 1 0
 They also have tyres for WTC rallies etc with this name and they are very good
  • 1 0
 @r-zero: they make road tires with p-zero on the side and the cinturato line even comes in green and blue hot patches just like the F1 inters/wets

Goodyear also has Eagle road tires that look just like the nascar/NHRA slicks
  • 1 3
 @ryanandrewrogers: where I'm from (mall crawler capital of canada) no one runs pirellis, bud.
  • 1 0
 i bought a p-zero for my road bike because you can't find a conti GP500 to save your ass these days. more than a little impressed so far. i'll probably go back to the conti when it's available again...but the p-zero is a reasonable stand in.
  • 4 0
 Pogačar would beg to differ:
youtu.be/lLq9m07wx8c
  • 2 0
 @nozes: interesting...i'm only on the pirelli because the conti gp5 is not available in north america in TLR 28 mm. i've only had a couple rides in dry conditions. i generally only ride dry conditions anyway...at 60 years old i'm happy to find something else to do in shit weather. thanks for the link though
  • 1 0
 @flipoffthemonkeys: I'm with you,none of us are riding at the equipment limits like those guys,so we shouldn't worry to much.
I've been very satisfied with Schwalbe Pro One TLR,I can get it online for 45€,maybe someday I'll try the Pirelli's.
  • 1 0
 @nozes: Lucky you, I really did not want to get rid of them before the thread reaches the end of its lifetime but holes are difficult to seal and after a lot of stubborness I'm about to give up the road tubeless thing.
  • 2 0
 "HyperWALL can be compared to Maxxis' Double Down casing"

Not really. DoubleDown is a double 120-tpi casing with rubber apex, not single 60-tpi with a rubber apex (bead flipper?).
  • 1 0
 Okay so when you are the sole tire provider for F1 and you don't use the tire compound colour coding for your new product, that's a bit of a missed opportunity! But when your super gravity equivalent tire only comes in 2.6 and no 2.4...thats a fail to me.
  • 2 0
 I'm running one of the trail s in the rear. The sidewalls have very little support. Less support than an xc casing schwalbe. I love the tread pattern but as soon as I pump a corner they roll over.
  • 1 0
 Thanks for this.

And for that reason…I am out!
  • 1 0
 I wonder what the deal is about the name, yes I know they used Scorpion forr the tires they used to supply Lamborghini for the LM series 4x4s (look it up, kinda like a Hummer with a V12), but Hutchinson has used that as a model name for mountain bike tires for quite a long time.
  • 2 2
 I've got the original versions of the emtb s, and they're insane in soft stuff, literally like tractor tyres, but yes, they're a touch scrabbly on rocks, the gravity compound is a welcome change. And yes, the hyperwall is brilliant for stability, I can drop to 16 psi without major squirming issues, feels about the same as an exo tyre with 26psi.
  • 1 0
 So, kinda like running an insert with out the nuisance of an insert?
  • 1 0
 @whambat: yeah kinda. I've never liked the idea of inserts really, I'd rather run a heavier casing, I'd only run a rear insert if I was still pinch flatting on a dh casing tyre at 25psi. Before then, I'll spend the weight penalty on a heavier tyre than a lighter one with an insert. I have a tendency to end up running a tube instead of redoing the tubeless set up (never had much luck with anything but brand new tyres) so at that point the insert would have to come out (incidentally, how I've got 3 pre-used inserts hung up, people on an enduro race having to remove to fit a tube and just abandoning them, the race organiser found them and shared the love ).
  • 3 0
 I wonder if Pogacar likes them?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLq9m07wx8c
  • 2 0
 My concern is that the polygon tread shape will not provide as much grip as a classic square/rectangular block. On the other hand Slawek shows that there is no problem
  • 1 0
 That was my thought too. Not sold on the angled braking edges. From my basic understanding of bike tire, it looks like a tread that was designed to look cool.
  • 1 1
 Companies like Pirelli make big pushes into a new market (like MTB tires) BECAUSE it is crazy profitable. I think it is safe to conclude that the profitability of this product in this market is pretty high. I think its on us as consumers (and most of us not racing) to ask whether we really need the name brand. Pretty much exactly how we buy car tires now. I rarely buy the totally obscure budget car tires or Pirelli P Zeros, and very often buy the budget-minded major manufacturer. And this market is mature enough that we have pretty good wear, safety, speed tests ratings for almost everything out there - so that we can make a choice based on value.
  • 1 1
 Aaaaaaaaalrigthy.... all of those who complain about MTB tires being expensive with much less rubber in them... go to a freaking Walmart and get yourself MTB rated tire, then head out to DH park nearby... I would like to hear what you gonna say after that Big Grin
  • 2 0
 Bought a pair of Pirelli Scorpions MX ExtraX and spent 70€ for the pack (F&R)
How come these tires are so f.... expensive?
  • 2 0
 A good 35 or 37 Baja ready truck tire is $400+, but thats a 45lb, 10 ply tire!
  • 2 0
 whats even better is you couldnt even buy 4 mtb tires to even come close to what you will get out of one truck tire! the system is ripping everyone off, and the mtb crowd is happy about it!
  • 2 0
 Can they change the name? running Scorpions may result in more OTb to Scorpions?
  • 2 0
 Anyone else appreciate the F1 inspired logos or is it just me? Lol
  • 1 0
 I went from Maxxis XC tyres to Pirelli XC tyres and could not be happier. I will replace my Bronson's Minions with these.
  • 1 0
 Don't put Pirelli on my cars... so won't put it on my bikes LOL
  • 2 0
 [deleted]
  • 1 0
 I am disturbed by the NIKE sock in this MTB context
  • 2 1
 No 26" option? Get outta here!
  • 1 0
 Will LBS be sent Pirelli calendars - asking for a friend
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