First Look: Box One Prime 9 - A Wide Range, 9-Speed Drivetrain

Aug 31, 2019 at 12:31
by Daniel Sapp  
Box One

Today, Box Components rolled out a wide-range, budget-friendly 9-speed drivetrain, along with an 8-speed youth drivetrain. If you haven't heard of Box, well, they've been around for a bit. Founded by Toby Henderson, Box has been making components ranging from handlebars and wheels to titanium bits. Oh, and a high-end seven-speed DH drivetrain that has been racing on the DH World Cup circuit under top riders, including Mick Hannah.

Henderson has been working to shake things up in the drivetrain market. Last year, we reviewed the 11-speed Box Two drivetrain and were told the top-tier Box One was in the making. Somewhere during its development, the decision was made to go from 11-speeds to 9. That's not a typo. Box claim there's less chance for things to go wrong, and their 9-speed sells for 626.99 USD. That said, it wouldn't be surprising to see a high-end 11 or 12-speed group from the brand in the future but for now, let's talk about the Prime 9.
Box One Prime 9 Drivetrain

Rear Derailleur: Adjustable limited-slip clutch, forged construction
Weight: 293g (Actual)
Price: $‎174.99 USD

9-Speed Cassette: HG compatible, unibody construction, 11 x 50
Spacing: 11, 13, 15, 18, 22, 28, 34, 42, 50
Weight: 368g (Actual)
Price: $359.99 USD

Twin shift lever: Multi-release lever, up to 3 downshifts in one throw
Weight: 140g (Actual, with cable)
Price: $‎74.99 USD

PRICING UPDATED

Contact: Box Components


bigquotesThere are only two big players making drivetrains. We think there is room for a third one and we want to be there.Toby Henderson, BOX founder

Box One


Prime 9: "9 is Fine"

Box One follows in the wake of Box Two, the brand's first full jump into the drivetrain business. Taking what they learned from Box Two 11-speed and the high-end Box One 7-speed DH drivetrain, Box One brings an affordable, wide-range, 9-speed drivetrain into the ring with the mindset that less is more, saying, "9 is fine."

Prime 9 Derailleur

The Box One Prime 9 derailleur is a sturdy piece of mechanical engineering. Box claim that fewer gears mean a better chain line and less shifting. This is said to decrease wear and increase derailleur life.

The derailleur has a forged aluminum inner and outer cage, a hearty finish, and sealed-bearing pulleys. Box's tri-pack limited-slip clutch helps to keep the chain in place and minimize slap. The clutch emulates a multi-plate type similar to those used in motorcycle transmissions. Riders can tune the clutch friction with an Allen key to increase or decrease friction/resistance. The durable looking changer is backed by a limited lifetime warranty.

Box One
Box One
Box's Tri-Pack multi-disc clutch (under the orange cap) is user-adjustable. The Pivot-tech cable-stay helps to keep the cable in a comfortable position leading into the derailleur.


Prime 9 Twin Shifter

The Box One Prime 9 shifter can drop down three shifts with a single push of the thumb lever - that's over half of the range in one push. Helpful if you find yourself faced with a sudden uphill. The shifter's release lever operates by a push. It weighs 140g with a cable and sells for $74.99 USD. Box also offers a single shift version.

Box One
Box's fast release lever.
Box One
The most radical part of this 9-speed drivetrain is the lightweight Unibody cassette. Cogs are one piece of chromoly steel, backed by a splined aluminum driver.

Prime 9 Cassette

Box's One Prime 9 cassette sports an 11-50t range and is manufactured from 7075-T6 aluminum and chromoly steel. All nine cogs are one piece of chromoly steel riveted to a splined aluminum spider. Box calls it "Unibody construction" and the cogs have a black DLC coating finish for durability. Gearing is: 11, 13, 15, 18, 22, 28, 34, 42, 50, and the cassette mounts up to standard Shimano HG freehub bodies. It weighs 368g, including the lockring, and sells for $359.99 USD. Interesting fact: if you take away the lockring, the Box cassette weighs a couple of grams less than SRAM's top tier XX1 Eagle cassette.

Box One
Box One
The one-piece cassette mounts right up to any HG freehub body and is very minimalist.


What about a Crankset?

The absence of a crankset from the Box One groupset was purposeful. One-by drivetrains minimized the technology required for cranksets, so it didn't make sense to develop a dedicated one for Box's drivetrains. Most narrow-wide cranksets will work with the Prime 9 systems.




Prime 9 First Impressions


I managed to get my hands on their top tier, Box One Prime 9 derailleur, shifter, cassette, and chain a few days ago and mounted it up to get some first impressions. The Box One Prime 9 group came in nice packaging and was extremely straightforward to install and dial in. It's worth noting that if you're using SRAM's matchmaker clamp and shifter mount on the handlebar, you'll need to jettison it for a non-matchmaker clamp.

I've only had the group for a short time at this point, but I can say that the shifts are smooth. The jumps between gears, especially to the larger cogs, are a bit noticeable - exactly what you may suspect a wide-range 9-speed cassette to be. While pedaling, the drivetrain is smooth and quiet. There's minimal chain slap and the clutch on the derailleur seems to do its job well. I've experienced no dropped chains thus far.

The feel of the shift lever is solid and by no means does it feel like a budget shifter. The ergonomics are nice and the action bears a feel to the style of shifting that you get with Shimano's shift pods but, it's a push, similar to a SRAM shifter.

The big win in my mind is the weight of the cassette. The Prime 9 One does have bigger jumps in gearing than SRAM's Eagle, however, that cassette weighs much less than some of its competitors, although it is a bit pricey. Its 368g weight is actually pretty damn close to SRAM's 12-speed XX1 Eagle that weighs a mere 8g less. If you don't need 12 speeds, that is an impressive reduction in grams and a slight reduction in dollars.

In the coming months, I'll put some more time on the group and we'll do a more in-depth review.

Box One


bigquotesThe Box One Prime 9 group hits the market with the potential to fill a gap in the realm of somewhat more affordable drivetrains, coming in under $700 with a lightweight cassette. The wide range, low weight, and simplified gearing will be enticing to many riders. That said, Box is going to have to prove its claims of improved performance and superior durability against flashy 12-speed options that are also good values with proven track records.Daniel Sapp



Note: The original pricing we were given was incorrect. The first look has been updated to reflect that with the correct pricing.





351 Comments

  • 206 11
 SRAM Engineer: "Blasphemy! we just commissioned our new Albatross 13 speed 'Unlucky for Some' groupset with new W.T.F. hub standard!"

ShimanoEngineer: "Who now do we copy?"
ShimanoSeniorEngineer: "Do not worry. By the time we have decided to enter the design phase in three to five years they will have worked it out."
  • 101 56
 Shimano is the Internet Explorer of Cycling, cheaper but always late.
  • 97 19
 Pinion: zis ist not opzimahl!
  • 83 8
 @qreative-bicycle: only If you ignore all the times they were first / early.
  • 25 8
 I'm pretty sure Shimano is already thinking two generations of drivetrains ahead and coming up with all kinds of weird and/or wonderful ideas. They were late to the MTB 12-speed game because they took a gamble on Di2 2x taking off. Looking at the state of the industry, they might have been too early with that.
  • 6 4
 @WAKIdesigns: WHY?? pinion had 9 speed version from begining.

and im hapy with my p12
  • 44 38
 @deeeight: Still missed a lot of doors :
- 1x (late)
- 1x12 (late)
- wireless electric (none atm + what's the purpose of having it electric with di2 when you still have cables to route in your frame?)
- carbon cranksets (none atm + issues with the hollowtech like on Ultegra)
- DH 7sp groupset (none)
- +220mm DH rotors for 29ers (none)

I may ignore some others as well.
  • 98 1
 This is nice. When climbing or descending i am that one rider that just seem to be skipping at least 3 gears up or down, aaaalways. And that with a 1x11 system. Ive always wished a system that had the same range as a 1x12, but with less gears in between so i dont have to be triggering the thing as if i was at war...
  • 4 1
 @Altron5000 Great comment that perfectly sums up Shimano and SRAM's respective manufacturing philosophies.
  • 6 1
 @WAKIdesigns: no 11-50 granny gear rant /garda joey / HTFU???

Getting soft I see....
  • 12 18
flag WAKIdesigns (Sep 2, 2019 at 3:56) (Below Threshold)
 @wildedge586: did I hit your soft fireroad gelato?
  • 36 36
 @qreative-bicycle:
How where they late to 1x? It's up to you if you only mount one ring.
12spd is pointless so why waste time and money on it unless you have to. (Aka hope it goes away and you don't have to bother)
Carbon cranks is very niche small market with tiny gains but bigger risks.
Dh 7 cogs even smaller and shrinking market.
And bigger rotors not needed when your brakes are already powerful.

There just not going scatter gun all the time at everything like sram.
  • 6 4
 @deeeight: I can't remember many times they were first early recently.

I reckon the last time they spent big on innovation an engineer came up with those brake levers that were also shifters! Remember them?

cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/shimano-deore-dual-control-hydraulic-levers-00120147-9999-1.jpg?itok=K2E5ghVv
  • 104 22
 @Altron5000: They only make best cranksets in the business. You may spend 350$ on a Race Face or E13 or carbon Sram or God only knows what else, and 90$ SLX will still be a a better choice at 100g penalty where it least matters. Sram deserves kudos for narrow Wide rings, it is undeniable. Wide range cassetes, yes, Reverb, not good on itself but it caused poliferation of droppers into every segment of the market. Other than this? Eagle? - laughable. GX - it's shit for the money, it is absolute crap for the money. XX1 and X01? 350$ for a cassette, 120$ for a shifter and 250$ for a plastic derailleur - are you fkng kidding me? And then you shift under power and wonder whether you got rebar into your rear wheel. Meanwhile you can flip the shifter up 3 times on XT or XTR and jump up and land on the right pedal with as much force as you want and it will shift smoothly.

Shimano may not have obvious innovations in the pipeline, they just make flashy stuff work.
  • 46 0
 Shimano operates the same way as car makers have in japan for a long time. Take an idea, refine it, improve, then mass produce
  • 8 4
 @WAKIdesigns: Well said, agree 100%!
  • 12 3
 @qreative-bicycle: maybe it was just marketing but Shimano stood by 2x as superior to 1x until they lost that battle in the industry.
  • 13 5
 @bulletbassman: and your point is? First of all, they didnt "loose" any battle because there was no battle. It was simply a market shift and they are the last ones to abandon ship. Its not like they did anything "wrong". Kinda like saying KTM and Yamaha lost the battle of the 2 Strokes because they are the last ones making them...ehmm...yeah...and by the way, at least in europe you can still find plenty 2x even 3x system, and guess what brand they all are...
  • 3 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Agree with all that.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Shimano are bad, I happily run various shimano (and SRAM) drivetrains on my bikes. Second mover advantage is not to be sniffed at, but in a two way fight it’s noticeable!
  • 6 6
 @Altron5000: I know I know, I just, I just got excited Smile ... @thenotoriousmic is coming soon!
  • 5 1
 @pperini: Sure 2x and 3xs dominate in the lower tier market and are still the standard on road/commuter bikes. And yes there are manufacurers still offering 2x options on high end mountain bikes. However many don't even have room for a front derailleur anymore let alone mounts for one.
My point was that for high end mountain bikes, Shimano saw the 1x as a fad/budget option but bike manufacturers/consumers decided that 1x was going to be the long term standard.
  • 6 0
 8 SPEED for 2021. with a 3% increment in chain weight, we manage to increase 15% on durability and wear.
  • 8 0
 Me too! I recently went from Shimano XT 11 speed to a Microshift wide range 9 speed (11-42) and I love it! For about $130 I Got the derailleur, shifter, and cassette. It works extremely well. I would love to try a wide range 6 speed option though. I still shift at least two gears every time. @pperini:
  • 1 4
 @qreative-bicycle: guessing your new to the sport
  • 5 1
 @bulletbassman: If you ever get the chance to ride Di2 XTR you will probably come to the conclusion that 2x actually is superior. Sadly its also very expensive and complicated to mount and will likely go the way of the Betamax.
  • 6 9
 @pperini: that's because your fit and you dont need all the bs the bike industry is pedalling to the new lazy generation of riders who need ebikes and 50t+ cassettes. Next stop, 13 speed 25-70t cassette, because who can even turn the cranks in the 11 or 12 tooth cog?
  • 11 0
 @Ttimer: I actually prefer 2x even without the fancy electronic shifting. Plenty of times a single shift in the front is perfect as opposed to trying to skip 4-6 gears at the beginning or end of a climb.
  • 3 0
 So , what about the 8 speed youth ?
  • 10 1
 @Ttimer: Chain rattling on a metal derailleur cage and falling off all the time does not sound superior to me. That sh*t can stay in the past.
  • 6 14
flag warmerdamj (Sep 2, 2019 at 8:58) (Below Threshold)
 @qreative-bicycle:

- 1x (late) What are you talking about, have you ever heard of single speed? SCAM didn't invent the single chain ring, it's been around forever.
- 1x12 (late) Who cares, it doesn't matter and the gears are so close together you always shift more than once (hence the attraction of this).
- wireless electric (none atm + what's the purpose of having it electric with di2 when you still have cables to route in your frame?) They are wires, not cables and they don't wear, stretch or get dirty like cables. wireless is super cool though.
- carbon cranksets (none atm + issues with the hollowtech like on Ultegra) Why does Shimano need carbon cranks? There's tons of them to choose from and their cranks are the bomb should you want a non carbon option. And re: Hollowtech… You think SCAM has never had an issue? They have and instead of telling you about it they just leave you in the lurch with their garbage and release a new version that completely ends any hope of cross compatibility for their customers who bought the last hype.
- DH 7sp groupset (none) DH'ers wouldn't buy it and Shimano knows this, that genre prefers SCAM as it has a cooler image.
- +220mm DH rotors for 29ers (none) Again, why do they need to make such a niche item when there are so many rotor manufacturers, its a waste of their resources.
  • 3 5
 @pperini: They didn't have a working 1x chainring until last year...
  • 1 1
 @dthomp325: thats just simply not the point nor my argument...
  • 24 1
 Shimano vs SRAM debates for the millionth time on Pinkbike.... even on a post about their smaller competition. You people are miserable, combative, argumentative bike nerds. Peace out.
  • 2 0
 @pperini: 100% mate
  • 4 2
 @qreative-bicycle: Shimano has repeatedly revolutionized the cycling industry. Blazing the trails for others to follow. What has SRAM done? Gripshift? 12spd? 28.99 DUB? LoL

The only think I can thing of that SRAM has done to truly revolutionize things is wireless shifting.
  • 3 3
 @m1dg3t: I love me some Duby-dub. works well, fits everything, and is affordable.
  • 4 1
 @qreative-bicycle Its late but a 11sp micro spline cassette with 10-49 xt style for $69.00 would be pretty proper...no?
  • 1 6
flag clink83 (Sep 2, 2019 at 16:39) (Below Threshold)
 @markg1150: If you think 12 speed is pointless you must not go very fast.
  • 1 0
 @deeeight: they were definitely early to making retailers sign and bunch of shit saying they wouldn't sell stuff online and then opening an ebay store.

buuuut yeah, they make better stuff
  • 4 0
 @clink83:
What has number of gears got to do with speed?
  • 2 13
flag thenotoriousmic (Sep 3, 2019 at 2:40) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns: I’ve got a lot on today waki. Shimano just make cheap shit you get out of bargain bin on chain reaction. The only people still buying cheap pressed cassettes and plastic thumb shifters that rattle about are people are those who can’t afford sram or those old stuck in their ways types that don’t know or won’t accept that shimano fell off for some stupid reason. I can’t be arsed wiping the floor with deluded shimano fanboys today so I’ll just do my usual trick of leaving a video which clearly shows how much better sram shifts just so you look stupid in the comments. Have a lovely day waki xxxx


youtu.be/kem5Rk863WA
  • 2 0
 @thenotoriousmic: I agree with his opinion, that the SRAM derailleur is better, and the Shimano shifter is better.
  • 2 1
 @m1dg3t: sram was the first to make a 2x mtb crank that was more than just 3x spacing with one less ring, they were the first to make a 1x chainring that didn't drop chains, they were the first to make a true wide range cassette along with the first manufacture with a one-peice cassette, they made a 2x internally geared crank (Hammerschmidt), they were first to both 11 and 12sp mtb groups, the first to offer a modern 7sp DH, first to have wireless electronic mtb shifting
  • 1 0
 Shimano released a gravity specific drivetrain back in 2004. And with all those bent rear/broken mech hangers I've seen that kept people from riding, I was happy to have my rear mech bolted to a solid axle. I've got the 2007 version so didn't have to put up with rapid rise Smile .
  • 5 1
 @m1dg3t:

Most of SRAM's "revolutions" came as a result of buying out other struggling brands for their good ideas / tooling and then throwing more capital money for R&D at those new divisions. When they bought out Sachs for example they got RELIABLE twist shifters, carbon composite derailleurs, and at the time the best chain alternative to Shimano. Buying out Avid got them great brakes and levers. Truvativ got them cranks and chainrings, etc. Rockshox for suspension technology and experience with hydraulics.
  • 3 0
 @dthomp325:

Actually NO they weren't. Ritchey was first in 1997... when SRAM didn't make anything but shifters and included a wider range 11-33 cassette for it at the time...back when Shimano's widest was still only an 12-32 8 speed for XTR or 11-30 8speed for XT/LX. Shimano didn't go to 9 speeds for mountain bike groups until 1999, but they'd gone to it for road groups starting in 1996.

ritchey.vintagebicycledatabase.com/catalogs/ritchey/1997/1997RitcheyComponents.pdf

As to the internally geared crankset... i'm sorry but shimano had one in the 1970s called the FM-5 which was a 5-speed gear crankset and which Miyata had equipped many bikes with. Greg Herbold used one on his downhill bike back in the early to mid 90s for awhile.
  • 2 0
 Interesting what passes for 'budget' nowadays.
  • 1 0
 @streetkvnt-kvlt: Prime 9 offers (4) different tiers to fit most budgets. For more information on the differences, please visit prime9.com
  • 1 0
 @boxcomponents: Thanks for that. Didn't actually 'click' (excuse the pun), that there were 4 different tiers. Well, I'm sold, cheers. Keep up the good work.
  • 1 0
 @boxcomponents:
Do any of the shifters use bushes instead of bearings.
Hate shifters with bushes they don't last and feel crap. Aka slx vs xt. Night and day at the shifter
  • 1 1
 @deeeight: I am familiar with SRAMs practices...
  • 95 13
 This is amazing. 15 bucks a shifter, Competitive weights, and good range.
I do disagree with one point though...there is not room for 3 players in the drivetrain market; so get wrekd sram
  • 3 15
flag faul (Sep 2, 2019 at 2:05) (Below Threshold)
 The cassette looks overkill tho. Like 2/3 of the price of the whole drvetrain. I hope this drivetrain will come to EU with good prices.
  • 9 17
flag suctionprints (Sep 2, 2019 at 2:51) (Below Threshold)
 Looks like the price is wrong in the article though -- on the website the Box One Prime 9 group is over $600. For that money I'd just buy a new fork.
  • 104 0
 @suctionprints: good luck trying to shift gears using that fork
  • 16 8
 @f00bar: lol for $600 I'll just push it to the top and coast.
  • 21 0
 Except there's no $15 shifter on their web shop. There's also no $45 derailleur and no $120 cassette. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ In fact, group set under review here seems to sell at $‎626.99. @danielsapp might need to take another look at prices.
  • 9 2
 @Toutacoup: Indeed - the prices we were given were incorrect - that would have been a value. Prices have been updated.
  • 31 0
 @danielsapp: *Grossly* incorrect seems a little more accurate. Don't think I've ever taken my credit card out and put it back so quickly before.
  • 8 0
 @danielsapp: what a rollercoaster
  • 7 3
 @faul: agree. Funny how my buddies and I have quivers that would make a lot of commenters call us dentists, but we're just blue collar dudes that have been riding for a long time and have worked our way to those bikes, and yet, I'll ride a set of enves or Reynolds and never pay more than $100 for a cassette. Waste of money to pay that much- unless you're a weight conscious xc racer- for something that wears out even if u monitor chain stretch.
  • 2 0
 ... that said, i love the idea of picking up one of their other casettes in the "git 'er done" price range.
  • 8 6
 @ranke: Im shocked at the amount of people who will fork out $$ for a cassette just because it saves 100 or 200g. You can put more than that on the back wheel riding thru a patch of dirt.
Am also on a well specced bike but with a cheap cassette. I ride bikes because I enjoy it & botching a shift or putting down power knowing you are chewing out an expensive component (that only lasts 6 months anyway) does not sound like a good time to me.
  • 7 1
 SO, if you buy an e*13 10 speed cassette, 9-42 (discontinued, but you can still find them new), a shimano 10 speed shifter and 11 speed derailleur (will shift much better, trust) the total price on Jenson is $326 new. Thats less than half as much.

The e*13 cassette is lighter at 300 grams, but the XT derailleur is 100 grams heavier than the box one, which is weird. That makes the total weight difference about 30 grams.

The 9-42 gives you a 467% range, and the 11-50 455% range. The much smaller 42 cog means a shorter cage, and the shimano shadow derailleur means your drivetrain is much less exposed and vulnerable.

The Box is steel for all cogs, which means it should last a lot longer. The e*13 11 & 12 speed cassettes can come apart and have the allow cogs replaced independently, but IDK if the parts are interchangeable with the discontinued 10 speed.

Just food for thought.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: actually 11speed xt GS cage mech is 20g lighter than this one, I wouldn´t use e thirteen cassette but you could get garbaruk 11-45 which is lighter than e13 and better quality too...I know I wouldn´t miss 9t cog either.
  • 2 1
 @danielsapp: How the heck were they THAT far off?!
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: According to Jenson, the One True Source of all Truth and Knowledge, the GS cage m8000 derailleur weighs 272g, which does seem high.

The Garbaruk cassette only gives you 410% range, and in theory a 9-42 should shift better than a 11-45, but execution is obviously more important than the max cog size. My e*13 does shift terribly, but I have a bent hangar and a 10 year old X9 derailleur thats beat to crap. The Garbaurk probably is a better option if you don't have an XD driver, but man I love the look of a smaller, 42t cog in the back and the all black.
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: 272 is correct, Box weights 293g?9t cog is too small and chain wrap is pretty bad with those, I don´t really care about high end of the range to be honest so 11t is fine for me, I´m pretty sure they make 10t version for xd freehubs
  • 3 0
 @ranke: I wrote my previous comment when prices were wrong in the article. The cassette was $120 but rear mech and shifters were dirt cheap. Like a deore groupset and a XX1 cassette. I thought it didn't made sense.

Now that mistakes have been removed, it's my coment that doesnt make any sense.
  • 3 0
 11S XTR(and even XT) shifter and derailleur with an eThirteen 9-46 cassette is phenomenal. I run a 30T chainring but can probably run a 28 and not lose out on top speed. Or go 32T and still be able to pedal up steep stuff. With the advent of 12S for Shimano, their older stuff is nearly half off. I will take an 11S XTR over an XO1 Eagle because it's so consistent and smooth in its shifting, even with a known clunky aftermarket cassette.

I personally love the fact that Box is throwing their cards on the table. It's nice to see another company take risks like this, and I would love to try their 9 speed stuff out. I believe it does have a solid market for many riders who want the simplicity and robustness of the 9 speed with very wide range.
  • 1 1
 @faul: I swear before they updated to the correct prices, the box derailleur was listed as being 170 grams.

Also, I've had 0 issues with chain wrap on the 9t cog, even with a thrashed X9 derailleur. Garbaruk doesn't list an XD compatible 10 speed, but I emailed them and asked.
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: If you realize that XX1 derailleur is over 260g I think it would be pretty obvious that it isn´t possible. I mean 10 speed xtr without clutch mech was over 170g...
  • 2 0
 @ranke: Spot on dude. Dumping money into your drivetrain is a waste unless your A) Racing or B) Racing

Suspension/Wheels/Tires is where my $$$ goes.
  • 2 0
 @bnasty49: Thats kinda true- having a drivetrain that is constantly breaking prevents you from riding. I had the same mentality as you and cheaped out on my hubs, and now after 4 warranties I'm still without a bike to ride. I've ruined 4 sets of freehubs in less than a year because I wanted to save a few bucks.
  • 1 1
 @bnasty49: yes and no. It’s a big leap to xt or x01 from box or Slx for not a huge price gap. However the txt and xx1 is definitely do dentists and the competitive xc crowd
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: i m on a 10sp MSC cassette 11-46 (30 euro), slx 11 sp rear mech(45 euro), 10 sp zee shifter(20 euro). For less than 100 euro i ve got all' the range i need, no Extreme long cage or dolly espansive components to smash into rocks. Works fine whatever condition, a breeze to set up.
  • 1 0
 @Luniapuanrider: there is even a 9sp. 11-46 it seems, looks really solid.
  • 2 0
 I prefer the 10sp XT cassette (11-36) with my Zee rear mech. Zee has got a proper short cage. The advantage of XT over SLX is that you've got more individual cogs to replace. I'll probably never wear out the bigger cogs, but the smaller cogs wear out much quicker. I stand up most of the time so I ride at a lower cadence but apply more force than someone riding seated. It is about 6 euro per cog. I keep a stock of the smallest five and only replace the one that jumps after replacing my chain. I do keep an eye on chain stretch but it isn't all that bad as I ride e-bike chains exclusively. I don't see the point of buying (non e-bike) chains that are optimized for less force. How much weight would that save? There just is no point going stupid light like that.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: Yes, a 10 speed 9-42 cassette sounds really good to me. First of all because my bike, as most bikes, has too little anti-squat so I prefer to use a smaller chainring to counteract that a little (and for a smaller chainring I need a smaller set of cogs at the back). But from this, if you look at this set of chainring/cassette versus a 11-50 set. Smaller chainring, smaller set of cogs - the weight difference is actually significant, for the same (or in this case a slightly better) range.
  • 1 0
 @DavidGuerra: I agree, which is why I'm sad that e*13 discontinued that cassette. You can still find them for around $200 new, but who knows for how much longer.

@Luniapuanrider I've never heard of that brand before, is it just a rebranded Sunrace cassette? They have the same thing at about the same price, and its lighter than the newest 12 speed XT cassette for dirt cheap. My issue is still that my hubs on both my mountain bikes have XD drivers, and both my 28T oval chainrings are perfect for 42T cassettes. I would have to replace a lot more stuff to get equal to your setup.
  • 1 0
 Question- does anyone know the spacing difference between 10 and 11 speeds? Sunrace has these two cassettes:

www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csmx3
www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csmx9x

One is a 11-46 ten speed, the other an 11 speed for an XD driver with a 10 tooth cog. Since the smaller rings are separate, could you not just take the spacers and smaller cogs (on the XD version they sit on an adapter piece) and mix and match to get 10-46 10 speed? Or even just dump a middle cog from the 11 speed setup and put the spacers in from a 10 speed cassette? I have a few old 10 speed 11-36 cassettes floating around.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: i don't know if it's just rebranding, seem to be a spanish brand, but they are even cheaper than sunrace online, weight reasonable, so far works like a charm, and it gets a lot of abuse by me, still not able to jump a gear on it , so i'm really impressed. They have also a 9 sp wide range but i find this compromise the best for have a reasonable range, at a cheap price, with also decent spacing. I run a 28 front ring and i don't race, pedal up with ease descend down like there's no tomorrow, hahaha.
  • 2 0
 @Luniapuanrider: hey, how come 11 speed derailleur works with 10 speed cassette? Is it because of the 10 speed shifter? I've been wondering if it's possible to reduce the shifts of a derailleur but never looked into the matter
  • 2 0
 3 players in the drivetrain market? You already have Shimano, SRAM, Sunrace. Rotor will probably remain niche but Tektro/TRP always goes big. They'll probably want a huge chunk of the OEM market because that's what Tektro is all about.

We'll see what will happen to the gearboxes. If Hayes really wants a piece of the OEM cake (already offering wheels, suspension, brakes, handlebars etc) they definitely need to bring some gearing to the market. Most likely would be to dig out that old B1/PeteSpeed patent they bought someday and sell gearboxes. Even if they work very different internally, if they make it such that it fits the mounts of a Pinion box, they could actually take a chunk out of that.
  • 1 0
 Ciao il cambio si sposta in base al tiro del comando.quindi con un comando 10 sp fai andare il cambio 11 sp sulla cassetta da 10. Ma cambia molto meglio sulla cassetta con raggio ampio e lo devi regolare meno spesso.
  • 53 0
 Pinkbike might want to check their pricing - according to Box website, the cassette is $359.99, the RD is $174.99 and the shifter is $74.99, which all matches what Seth suggested last month on his reveal video. There is a low level box 3 prime 9 which some of the quoted prices are closer to but still a way off the actuals
  • 7 2
 Updated - the pricing we had from Box was incorrect.
  • 9 0
 @danielsapp: Can you please explain to me how a $175 derailleur and a $360 cassette are budget friendly?! Your first sentence could use some rewording if you ask me...
  • 1 1
 @millsr4: Did they not unveil a sub $200 drivetrain? I find that to be very budget friendly.
  • 1 0
 @Brainman1000: the article didn't mention that... But it did call a $700 drivetrain budget friendly...
  • 41 0
 It just feels more simple having 9 gears as opposed to 11 or even 12. Once you slap a wide range cassette on a bike you really can get away with a few less gears in the middle. I reckon 80% of the time I only use 20% the gears anyway
  • 15 0
 Yeah I would roughly agree. I have 11 speed and I reckon I use 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 8th and 9th. That's pretty much it. Basically 3 gears for going up, and 2 for coming down. So less than half of the available gears
  • 21 3
 Maybe for people who don’t have varied terrain. In a normal ride I use all 12 gears. Sure I could get by with 9 if the range is similar, but it wouldn’t be ideal.
  • 24 3
 @Austink: Exactly. No offense to anyone (seriously) but I always read comments like "I only use X number of gears anyways". That's cool, but planet earth is a big place with a lot of people. We all have different riding styles and might ride on completely different terrain. Nowadays you also see the same drivetrain on all kinds of different bikes. You see Eagle both on XC hardtails and full sus enduro bikes. But those two bikes might see very different terrain and use.
  • 2 0
 I also like the idea, but can’t recommend box to anyone. Do you see how short and stubby the teeth are on the derailleur pulley wheels? In my experience, it made it impossible to keep the chain on them. After 100 miles of that and terrible lever feel, I pulled a box2 drivetrain off my bike. Just my experience though.
  • 3 0
 @hubsession: Hmm, that's interesting. Can you go into a bit more detail about the jockeys not keeping the chain on? What happened exactly?
Not trying to argue, i'm just curious, since before SRAM 1x stuff all jockey wheels were designed like that, and a lot of them still look like that today.
  • 1 1
 60% of the time it works 100% of the time
  • 1 1
 @HollyBoni: Yeah, it was the smaller one that gave me consistent issues. When you see the pulley wheels next to any new offering of shimano/sram, it’s not even close, the teeth are very small. Basically the chain would sit on either side of the wheel rather than on it. This would cause a very bad grinding feel as you could probably imagine. No matter how many times I got off and placed it back on the wheel myself, any rough terrain would send it right off the again. This coupled with constant popping and skipping gears under load, and needing tons of force on the lever to downshift, I was done. Again, just my experience and it was set up properly and adjusted accordingly to try and help these issues.
  • 2 0
 @hubsession: That's weird for sure. I've never seen that happen before. I know that Shimano switched to an upper pulley with longer teeth on the M7000/M8000 etc. generation, and switched to even longer teeth on both jockeys on the 12spd generation. But you still see a lot of RDs running around with the same old jockey wheels that they've used for decades(?) that look pretty much identical to the BOX pulleys. I have a ZEE RD that now lives on my grocery getter and it always worked flawlessly, it has the plain old pulleys with tiny teeth.
Anyways, I can't give you a better reason why you've had those issues. Smile
  • 1 0
 Well where I ride (Wellington) it’s pretty much ride up then ride down, with undulating bits in between, I use a pinion 9 speed gear box on Zerode and it is perfect. But yeah other places may be different @HollyBoni:
  • 1 0
 @enduroNZ: Jealous, even with all it's quirks, a Pinion with a belt is pretty much my dream drivetrain. I wouldn't mind living in Wellington either. Big Grin
  • 1 0
 Depends on the bike and riding style. For regular riding, I fully agree, less gears is better. However, there is a strong case for closer gear spacing, even for enduro bikes. Often times, you need the correct gear to either get enough speed in a short runup while having your cranks in the correct position for a jump or a drop, or doing stuff like low speed drops with a pedal kick.
  • 1 0
 @phops: I know a lot of people say XC is dead, but at least where I live XC is still pretty darn popular, mainly because we don't have massive mountains. On an XC ride you might encounter flat gravel or dirt roads, long and gradual climbs and descends. Maybe even a bit of pavement. But you might also climb singletrack too. So a big gear range, and relatively close steps (if you ask a roadie they will say a 10-50 12spd has massive steps) comes in handy.
  • 29 0
 Oh how I want this to be as good as it sounds
  • 30 1
 Did pink bike just publicly post Employee Pricing? Smile )))))
  • 26 4
 For those complaining about a lack of XD driver compatible, remember that shit only happened because SRAM wanted to put more gears on than you need, with a tiny 10 tooth cog. Let's face it, if your'e going that fast on dirt, you're likely not pedalling anyway.

Throw that XD gash in the bin like I just did and upgrade to less gears. Throw the entire GX line in there while you're at it.

When I first went 1x drivetrain (about 4/5 years ago) it was with a 9 speed SLX/XT set up and 11-32 cassette. I liked it and if could have had a wider range, like the 11-42 or 46 that came out for 10 or 11 speed, I'd have been all over it.

The numbers on this look great and if the price comes down, it'll be my next drivetrain. Shimano take note, make something like this, it will sell like hot cakes. No custom drivers, with SLX price and durability please.
  • 3 1
 ^this comment. I personally never used the 10t cog on sram cassettes & got sick of paying thru the nose. So got rid of that shit for a sunrace 11-50 and now have more range because the 11t cog actually gets use sometimes. There is nothing wrong with a regular shimano cassette and maybe I have been riding too long but something feels right about slipping cogs on to a hub body. In fact I just replaced the 13t cog on my cassette so will now get full use out of it instead of junking the whole thing because of 1 worn cog, happy days!
  • 9 7
 Cool. I'll just toss my $$$ hubs in the trash, buy a new rear hub for more $$$ and rebuild my entire wheel so I can run this.
  • 11 0
 A 10T cog on a cassette isn't necessarily just a higher gear, it's more range, since you can just change the front ring. If you change the chainring to a smaller one, compared to a cassette with an 11T cog you can still retain the same high gear, but get a lower low gear (if the biggest prockets are the same size). But if you don't need the range either, there is nothing wrong with that.

I agree it's sad that nowadays $100+ cassettes are just a normal thing.
  • 2 1
 on one of my bikes, 9v sram x5 shifter, 11v shimano slx derailleur, 11-46 chinese 9v cassette, 9v chain, more or less 100€ total. With an extender (or goatlink) you can also use 11-50 9v chinese cassette, tried.
  • 3 2
 @hardtailparty: have you heard about this thing called freehub body? You can swap that out separately without even touching the rest of the wheel, at least if you have reasonable quality hub in the first place, which based on you crying about binning it I hope you do.
  • 5 0
 @hardtailparty: If your hubs are worth a shit, you should be able to buy a Shimano freehub body and do a direct swap. No rebuild needed. Just research and possibly a little more bitching.
  • 2 1
 A 10 or 9 tooth cog allows for less material for the same range, so lighter weight. It also allows for a smaller chainring, so once again lighter weight. With a smaller cassette, shorter derailleur cage, and a smaller chainring, you're much less likely to have rock strikes that end your ride.

I would be all over this, but if I have to spend an additional $40-$60 to convert my hubs back to an older standard, get a new, larger chainring for another $60 (since my current chainring is optimized for a 42t rear cog), then whats the point?
  • 2 0
 @defraz: You had me on x5 shifter and 11v slx. Does this work perfectly out of the box or you need to matchmake something?
  • 3 0
 @Notmeatall: no adaptation needed, same pull ratio. SRAM (has to be sram) x5 9 speed trigger, 11v slx derailleur, 9 speed cassette.
  • 1 1
 They DIDN'T go XD compatible because it wouldn't have fit anyway. This new cassette is 12 speed spacing and cog widths so as to be compatible with existing 12 speed chains. There isn't room in the space of an XD driver hub for a 13 cog cassette that's wider than a 12.
  • 3 0
 "Let's face it, if your'e going that fast on dirt, you're likely not pedalling anyway"

Not true. With an average front ring, 10 tooth is great at bike parks when you wanna go big.
  • 1 0
 @phops: I have a spot on one of my rides where I can hit 70kph on dirt 32T and 11T - I can tell you I'm never still pedalling when I do it. And it's not mega steep. How fast and big do you need to go at bike parks?
  • 1 0
 @JiminOz: If you are riding a jump line and you just shorted a jump, and you really need to put some heat down to clear the next one, you need tall gears. Coasting down a sraightaway on singletrack and pedaling with a really high turnover isn't the same thing.
  • 2 0
 @JiminOz:

An example that I can remember is riding my Yt Tues with 27.5 and 34 up front and 9-21 e13 cassette in the rear. At Bryce Park in VA, there is a good size step up with a pretty big flatter section between it and the drop in on one of the black diamond trails. I remember that during dusty days, you couldn't get as much speed out of the berms before the drop in, so you had to give extra strokes on the flatter section. Doing it with the 10 cog in the rear felt right. 32/11 would have required too high of a cadence.

And both 34/9 and 34/10 have taller gearing for a 27.5 wheel than a 32/10 on a 29 wheel.
  • 1 0
 @phops: With gearing like that you're clearly not pedalling up much. A lot of us do and need the range up the other end. I rarely use my 11 cog for the ascending/descending here in Adelaide.
  • 2 0
 @JiminOz:

Right, and that is the whole point of wide range cassettes. The 10 cog is for bike parks (or road rides if you have an XC bike with fast rolling tires), and the 50 cog is for climbing.
  • 1 0
 @defraz: Seriously? I've trying to get a clutch RD for so long for a 2x9 that I've never lookind in to 11 slx!!
I love Sram type of shifter, and prefer shimano RDs, so it's a match!! Thank you so much!
  • 2 0
 @Notmeatall:

That's been known (though of course not advertised by SRAM & Shimano) got years that the DynaSys clutched 10 speed derailleur cable pull geometry is virtually identical to SRAM's 1:1 ratio geometry... thus... 10 speed clutch Deore GS cage derailleur + nine speed SRAM shifter. and an 11-42 cassette and poof, there's your 1x9.
  • 1 0
 I don't know. We have a very diverse terrain to ride bikes where I live and believe me, on a race, you might need that 10 cog. There are parts that are fast but not that steep that the only way that you can get over 60km/h is if you pedal. It's much faster than an 11 cog. Tested.
  • 14 1
 finally someone thought about his work.
All this 11/12/13 spd stuff is not going in the right direction.
The sport gets rougher/thougher and these Drivetrains more sensible. If you bend your hanger on the 9spd you will still ride the whole day before fixing it. Not possible with 12spd where the smallest bend will stop it from working properly Big Grin
  • 8 0
 I've never had a derailleur hanger that twisted up gently enough to still be usable, and I certainly wouldn't count on riding all day afterwards. Think you gotta chop eight more cogs off to be safe on that front. Then again, maybe I just take my crashing too seriously.
  • 1 2
 @werics: that’s probably because you never knew it was bent to begin with if your still on original 9spd!
  • 3 0
 Pretty much. I've been using eagle for the first time this year (came on the new bike), and I'm on my 4th chain this summer. The tight tolerances are not compatible with what some of us might consider 'mountain biking'. Constantly fiddling with it and replacing weak-ass chains before they destroy my over-priced, made-of-cheese cassette.

I really appreciate the direction Box is going with this. Reliability and durability would be huge selling points to me.
  • 1 0
 @HurricaneCycles: I've had to use an actual hanger alignment tool on multiple 9spd systems to get them to shift properly. Setting the hanger by eyeballing it (with an axle threaded in the hanger) just wasn't enough.

And my eyeballing is pretty accurate, I have it calibrated often.
  • 14 0
 Price does not seem right... That looks like the price of the box three for the specs of the box one...
  • 10 0
 I'm seeing USD $‎626.99 for the group...
  • 1 0
 @apnk: It has been corrected.
  • 12 0
 @danielsapp
I would love to hear how this drivetrain compares with the MicroShift 9 speed you reviewed earlier
m.pinkbike.com/news/review-microshifts-125-advent-drivetrain.html
  • 8 0
 There will be a good comparison of that along with SRAM and Shimano drivetrains when the time comes.
  • 7 0
 I recently put the MicroShift on my bike and I love it! Only been a month but so far it works great. I went front an XT 11speed, which works great too, but I don’t need 11 gears.
  • 2 0
 I'm not sure about microshift's track record, but Box has a proven record to put out lousy drivetrain components (minus their rebranded sunrace cassettes)
  • 1 0
 @danielsapp: What I really want to know is whether the Box drivetrain does a superior job of shedding the horse poop over at DuPont?
  • 15 1
 I'll buy it based on the looks of that cassette alone...
  • 13 0
 Less is more. Well done Box One. This will be the perfect upgrade to my 10 speed.
  • 12 1
 I really don't get why the top tier cassette doesn't come in XD driver body configuration (or at least as an option).
People shopping for a 630 $ groupset probably own already an xd equipped hub to pair...
  • 4 0
 Agreed. I have XD hubs on 3 bikes I'd be tempted to give this a try if it was compatible with my wheelsets.
  • 3 0
 I'm under impression it's quite the opposite. They are targeting crowd who refused to go past 10 or 11sp, like myself, therefore still on HG freehubs. Most of the riders on xd are surprised I'm not interested to try eagle and don't find it overwhelming to shuffle through all those gears. Different strokes for different folks...
  • 1 0
 @kanasasa: Why not both?
  • 8 0
 Perfect. Less fiddling, less gears to skip on. Better chain lines maybe? Exactly the development which is needed. I like. What I don't like is the piss poor Box website which shows next to no information about the products or their nomenclature
I.e what is single and multi in the designation of the Prime 9 Two???
  • 1 0
 @warmerdamj: I'm curious as to the "better chainline" point. Is it narrower than a 11 speed cassette?
  • 1 0
 @dthomp325: If it follows the Shimano/SRAM spacing, it should be.
  • 1 0
 @dthomp325: Prime 9 chains have internal dimensions that are compatible with modern Wide / Narrow chainrings and perform similarly to 11 / 1 2 speed chains. Externally, Prime 9 chains have similar dimensions to existing 9-speed chains. This unique geometry allows for thicker side plates than 12-speed drivetrains which resists stretching over time increasing shifting performance while decreasing wear on the cassette and chainring

Note: Other 9 speed chains are compatible with the Prime 9 derailleurs and cassettes but may increase the possibility for dropped chains, we recommend using a Box Prime 9 Chain for optimal performance!
  • 11 1
 11 spd XT cassette, derailleur, and shifter is like $200. $600 is not a budget setup.
  • 2 1
 This. I love the idea of a 9 speed wide range setup, but $600+ seems really pricey compared to the Shimano 11 speed XT setup I’m already running.
  • 1 0
 @sooner518: After posting a similar comment I webt to box's site and there is also 75$ and 99$ cassette options., All steel, which is what I want for durability.
  • 1 0
 @sooner518: on one of my bikes, 9v sram x5 shifter, 11v shimano slx derailleur, 11-46 chinese 9v cassette (bolany), 9v chain, more or less 100€ total. With an extender (or goatlink) you can also use 11-50 9v chinese cassette, tried.
  • 1 0
 Box isn't marketing this as a budget groupset at all. It's a 'One' which is their highest tier. It literally even says 'TOP OF THE LINE' on the box.
  • 1 1
 @badbikekarma: The box one is also steel for all cogs with an aluminum carrier.

The Box 2 is a much cheaper option, but man at 650 grams for the cassette its got major curves.
  • 1 1
 600$ is a joke.
  • 1 0
 @Almazing: ok but this article here on Pinkbike calls it budget-friendly
  • 1 0
 @badbikekarma: Yea but that was because @danielsapp was given the wrong pricing by the manufacturer.
  • 7 0
 I have been an advocate of a cassette like this for a long time. Mix a robust chain with a wide cassette that is effectively a climbing cassette with a 5 speed dh cassette. What is not to like.
  • 7 0
 Is this a true oldschool 9 speed gear spacing and chain width or a 11/12 speed style chain and a narrower cassette to provide a better chainline?
  • 6 0
 This is what I want to know!!! Can I run my 11 speed chain and shifter and just limit the derailleur?
  • 3 0
 As it uses the whole HG body (11t can't move inward and big cog is aligned with the aluminium spider), it has to be the olschool 9sp spacing.
  • 1 0
 Looks like 11sp chain, on a wide cassette, ant a ton of free space and slop between cogs..
  • 2 0
 From the website:

"Prime 9 chains have internal dimensions that are compatible with modern Wide / Narrow chainrings and perform similarly to 11 / 12 speed chains.. Externally, Prime 9 chains have dimensions similar to existing 9 speed chains. This unique geometry allows for thicker side plates than 12 speed drivetrains which resists stretching over time increasing shifting performance while decreasing wear on the cassette and chainring."
  • 4 0
 @HollyBoni: dies that mean you need a proprietary chain?
  • 3 1
 @HollyBoni: very interesting. Except chains dont stretch, they wear and develop slop. I wonder if youd get any noticeable extra life out of these 9 speed chains. My xx1 12 speed chains always measure within spec with a chain measurement tool, even when they're quite worn. A lot of people have been wearing their cassettes prematurely, because their chains measured in spec, but they were still too worn. I wonder if theres a better way to measure chain wear.
  • 3 0
 @hardtailparty: I've always wondered about that. Do chains actually stretch? I always thought that the rollers wear out, aka the hole in the roller gets bigger and bigger. That's why when you stick a chain checker in a worn out chain it falls in it, but not because the chain is actually longer, but because the rollers are worn and there is more play in them. Or is that incorrect?

@ssteve : No Idea, i'm just a random guy on the internet who copy pasted something from another website. Big Grin
  • 2 1
 @HollyBoni: you are correct. they dont stretch. They wear. And as the rollers develop slop, it allows the total length of the chain to grow, due to the slight extra play between each roller.
  • 1 2
 @ssteve: looks that way. Regular 9spd chains don’t mesh very well with N/w chain rings. So it looks like they mixed the old school (cheap) 9spd spacing and shift tech in the back with modern crank standards of newer 11/12s drives by adding material inside the outer plates.

If that’s the case, you can run a 9spd chain with no issue but theirs will be less prone to dropping.

IMHO that should be the biggest selling point of this system because that’s the biggest issue with other systems like Microsoft Advent. There’s no n/w 9spd chainrings!
  • 1 1
 @HurricaneCycles: plenty of NW chainrings on aliexpress/ebay work no problem with 9 speed chains...If you struggle to find one 10 speed chain works with 9 speed drivetrains as well if not even better than 9 speed chains.
  • 1 2
 @hardtailparty: You're not supposed to measure 12 speed chains with a chain tool, it won't work. According to Sram you are supposed to replace it when you have worn through two chainrings. I don't know when Shimano says you should replace theirs.
  • 1 0
 @hmstuna: I don't understand, why wouldn't a standard chain tool work with a 12spd chain? It's just an 11spd chain with thinner outer plates, what makes it "incompatible" with a chain tool?

My SRAM 1x11 manual says that I should always replace the chain, cassette, and chainring together... Big Grin
  • 1 0
 @hardtailparty: not to argue with you, but if chains don’t stretch, why have I always had to adjust the rear wheel position to take the slop out a short time after installing a new chain on my single speeds?
  • 1 0
 @BeKwik: He's being pedantic. The overall roller-roller distance does increase, but none of the chain parts actually become meaningfully longer - in fact, they lose material. I like to think of it as the roller/bushing interface getting looser, and so letting consecutive rollers move further and further apart, though that's neither a complete picture nor, probably, entirely correct. The end result, though, is that the chain as a whole gets longer, so for practical purposes it is usually acceptable to not give a flip how.
  • 1 0
 @werics: You can just not give a flop, but it makes you question stuff when you do give a flop. So is this all just a marketing stunt, or the real deal? Box says that because of the thicker outer plates the chain resists stretching more, but then we established that a chain doesn't actually stretch. So, what's the truth? Big Grin
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: I didn’t say it won’t work. I said it’s not designed to work perfectly. There’s no such thing as a n/w chainring designed for 9spd spacing but literally any modern ring will “work”

There’s plenty of ways around this issue that will work acceptably well for most but it seems Box has created an engineered solution that will solve all the issues with none of the downsides. Kudos to them!
  • 2 0
 @BeKwik: he is saying that the length of the side plates don’t change, rather that the pins aren’t in the same position anymore.
  • 1 0
 I'm not being pedantic. Lots of people are mentioning chain stretch, including box. I'm simply trying to explain the difference. I remember when I learned that chains dont stretch. it was interesting to me, and I better understood how chains wear. Just trying to share some info and help others.
  • 1 0
 Thanks for the brief explanation(s). I never thought that the metal was stretching. I just sort of assumed the tolerances between the links would wear slightly and resulted in a longer chain. But it sounds like it doesn’t really matter what is happening. The goal is to maintain your gear as little necessary to get you on your bike as much as possible.
  • 1 0
 @HollyBoni: Sram 1x12 chains wear differently than 1x11 chains. It's not that a regular chain tool won't work or give you a reading, it will just be the wrong reading ie saying the chain is fine when it is still worn out. When my shop talked to the Sram rep he said that Sram 12 speed chains don't work with standard chain tools and they should be replaced every two chainrings. This is apparently the case with Shimano 12 speed as well.

Whether or not Sram is telling the full truth here or being annoying and trying to get people to buy expensive chainrings instead of cheaper chains, is another matter.
  • 1 0
 @markg1150: chains have a fixed length; IDK where I read it, but the article said that measuring a number of links (I think they provided thr example with 20) the chain should measure Xmm, and 2mm longer than that means you should replace it. Measured my chain and it was longer than the standar measure for a new chain.
  • 1 0
 @HollyBoni: That does not tell me if a) the overall width of the cassette is as wide as a 11 speed cassette or if it requires a spacer (have read that it does elsewhere) and b) whether or not the spacing is 11 speed like with the Sram DH 7 speed cassette or regular 9 speed. It says that the cogs are thicker like old 9 speed which may mean the spacing is wider but that is not a given.
If the spacing is the same as 11 speed and the cassette requires a spacer then I can run my current 11 speed sram shifter with deraileur and just get a 9 speed chain, I would just have to limit the deraileur for the narrower cassette.
  • 1 0
 @hmstuna: That's interesting. I started using GX Eagle chains on my 11spd SRAM drivetrain but haven't noticed anything different about wear. But I don't know what i'm supposed to be looking for. Big Grin
I'd just like to know a bit more detail and understand what's going on. While I don't like to make conspiracy theories, "12spd chains wear differently" sounds just a bit vague and marketing-y.

@SintraFreeride: Shoot an email to Box, i'm sure they can help you out.
  • 1 0
 @HollyBoni: The vital review has better info on this!
  • 1 0
 @SintraFreeride: To be honest, I don't think i'm interested in this drivetrain. Frown
  • 2 0
 @HollyBoni: it totally does and you might notice that I haven't said that I necessarily believe Sram, but that is what they say.
  • 1 0
 @hmstuna: Yeah I got that, not trying to argue with you or anything!
  • 1 0
 Prime 9 chains have internal dimensions that are compatible with modern Wide / Narrow chainrings and perform similarly to 11 / 1 2 speed chains. Externally, Prime 9 chains have similar dimensions to existing 9 s peed chains. This unique geometry allows for thicker side plates than 12-speed drivetrains which resists stretching over time increasing shifting performance while decreasing wear on the cassette and chainring

Note: Other 9 speed chains are compatible with the Prime 9 derailleurs and cassettes but may increase the possibility for dropped chains, we recommend using a Box Prime 9 Chain for optimal performance!
  • 1 0
 @boxcomponents: isn't it the rollers that wear? I was under the impression that the side plates dont stretch. Do thicker side plates reduce wear on the rollers somehow?
  • 5 0
 It's a good idea for a wide range 9sp, but " The jumps between gears, especially to the larger cogs, are a bit noticeable - exactly what you may suspect a wide-range 9-speed cassette to be"..... performance does not correspond to the 650$ price... if you feel gaps between gears... like old 9 speed deore with big cogs.
Why are the prices not accurate? Seems intentional.
These are BOX TWO's prices not ONE.
The BOX ONE groupset costs around 650$ USD and is quite pricey given the materials used.
It's a nice marketing trick to sell 9 speed groupset twice the price of 12sp SRAM GX Eagle... without cranks?!
  • 6 0
 More of this please. Definitely a gap in the market for all the old 9 speeds out there in need of a wide range cassette and clutch derailleur.
  • 1 0
 Yes. I plan to do a microshift or similar 9 speed on my old hardtail.
  • 2 0
 With the revised pricing for Box, it looks like Microshift is the far superior option again.
  • 7 0
 This stuff is significantly more expensive than 12 speed shimano. Bizarre. No thanks.
  • 1 0
 Yeah, I share that sentiment. Shame really but I guess their volumes are small so prices are high.
  • 1 0
 I just upgraded to 12 speed XT for less than the cost of that cassette.
  • 1 0
 @topfuel564: link please?
  • 4 0
 When my SRAM NX goes, I'm totally going to try this setup. Well done BOX! I wish some of the manufacturers would use more of your products on OEM builds. Be a great way to bring down the cost of new bikes... if you look at the price of a complete group set, and compare it to the price of a brand new bike.... I would say SRAM is a big contributor to the inflated cost of new bikes these days.
  • 7 0
 Box me one and send it over !! Wink
  • 4 0
 I wonder if it will be available on Amazon Prime?
  • 3 0
 The jumps between gears are a bit inconsistent; there's a 15% step between 13 and 15 and a 27% step between 22 and 28.

There is a way to get all steps within the range of 18 to 23% so I assume there's a reason for the sizes they've chosen?
  • 2 0
 Probably number of teeth for their shifting ramps?
  • 4 0
 This will be the drive train of choice for my next bike!
Who needs more than 9 gears anyway? Most of the time i shift 2-3 gears at the time with the 11 speed on my current bike.
  • 5 2
 At this point, XD has a huge share of the market so not having an XD comparable cassette is a miss and is going to keep people like me from trying it. I like the idea of this for a hardtail made up of older parts that’s going to get beat on in lousy weather.

Also, really hope they have upped their shifter feel. Their first attempts were not great.
  • 4 0
 I would love a 9-speed 11-50 cassette, I like the range but dont need all the steps of my current 11-50 11 speed. but $360 for a cassette isnt even close to "budget-friendly" so ill stick with Sunrace
  • 2 1
 on box's site there are cheaper 9 speed 11-50 cassettes. of course PB reviews the dentist version.
  • 1 0
 Prime 9 offers (4) different tiers, (3) of them having a 9-speed 11-50 cassette to fit every budget. You can learn more about the differences at prime9.com.
  • 3 0
 I cannot see any info about actual cogs spacing and what type of chain does it take? Becasue it is not so obvious that it is 9, you could easily make a 9 speed cassette with 11 speed cogs spacing and have a better chainline.
  • 6 1
 I like it, 9 speeds makes sense to me. The cassette looks like rosette in Notredamme! Smokin’!
  • 2 0
 Looks amazing, I am sick of shit shifting every time a bird sneezes on my rear mech. Been through 4 GX rear mechs in 9 months and now the GX cassette is cooked. I would much rather reliability over range, only wish the cassette fit on an XD driver.
  • 1 0
 Shimano derailleur and shifter with sram cassette works great for me
  • 1 0
 @yzedf: 11 speed shimano rear mech with GX casette?
  • 3 0
 Same here to everything you wrote. I bought a new bike a few months ago and it came with GX Eagle. I asked the bike to swap it out for XO1 11 speed. Shifts better, lighter, happier.
  • 2 0
 @Keys33: yup all 11 speed parts.
  • 1 0
 @iamamodel: same price?
  • 2 0
 @BeKwik: you'd have to work that out with your shop, but mine was happy to because they used them as spares all the time, so no loss. 11 speed stuff has dropped in value, so... Could be same price.
  • 6 3
 Pinkbike commenters: All I want is a reliable, modern 9 or 10 speed drivetrain with a wide range cassette.

Also Pinkbike commenters: 9 speeds? This is f*cking stupid. What year are we in? 1999?
  • 5 0
 I like living in an age where a $350 cassette can be reported on as being a 'budget' option....... Mental stuff.
  • 2 0
 Currently running XT 12 sp derailleur with 10sp sunrace 11-46 cassette and the new SLX I spec ii 10sp shifter. Have an 11sp xt/xtr and 12sp gx eagle on two other other bikes. While the slx shifter is meh, the actual act of changing gears is a lot more positive and way less sensitive to being out of tune, especially compared to the eagle.

A 9sp with wider range sounds very intriguing. That being said the 10sp setup cost under $200 while this is retailing for $500+
  • 5 0
 the cassette featured here is not $120
more like $350
  • 3 2
 If you want to go 9 speeds on a budget, go Sunshine cassettes:

www.aliexpress.com/item/32988536537.html

I run their 42t version 9 speed on my Commencal Meta HT 2014 with a Sram X5 derailleur and shifter, works like a charm for now.

I am wondering who is manufacturing the Box cassette, their previous cassettes were outsourced to Sunrace.
  • 2 2
 do you need a special mech/shifter for this, or would a conventional 9spd suit? I have tons of 9spd shifters and mechs etc from 10 years ago in my basement...
  • 1 0
 @therevfryslim: Generally you just need a SGS long derailleur and in some cases, a hanger extender. I've been riding the Sunrace cassettes with a Shimano 10 speed XT without issue. Tidy and simple.
  • 2 0
 @therevfryslim: you can match 9v SRAM shifter (only sram!) with new 11v shimano (or sram derailleur but i didn't tried it directly) derailleur to have 9v wide range with clutch and a cage able to go 46-50. 9v wide range cassette (bolany) are cheap on aliexpress
  • 1 0
 @therevfryslim: you might need a goatlink in some cases, like if you choose to go the 50t route: bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/54476/fitting-a-9-speed-11-50t-cassette-on-mtb-which-derailleur
  • 1 0
 @boxxerace: Awesome cheers- will look into what I've got Smile
  • 5 1
 $359 for a 9 speed cassette? NX is $100. GX is sub $200. Why would I buy this?
  • 4 0
 because a) you don't want a 12 speed cassette, and b) the NX is twice as heavy as this thing

(also, both GX and NX are trash)
  • 3 0
 @f00bar: Please define trash. Lots of people are running GX. When they press the button on the shifter it shifts, when they don't the chain stay into the cogs. Sure it is heavier than xo1 and xx1 but other than that the shifting experience is the same (I know I have both). What more would you like?
  • 2 0
 @opignonlibre: a silent cassette with no pins and no misaligned teeth would be a good start
  • 1 0
 @opignonlibre: GX has been trash for me. Bad shifts, chain jumping, caught in jockey wheels, warrantied twice on one bike, heavy, tick tick tick all the time, and same stories from everyone I know with it. As I've said elsewhere, GX was OEM on my last bike and I swapped it for 11 speed XO1 for better shifting and it's lighter. Shop happy to have spare GX on hand as they need it.
  • 1 0
 @iamamodel: My GX jockey wheels were stuck at some point, the bearings were rusted! I know Inox is expensive, but still.
  • 1 0
 Having 1x11, 1x10, 2x10 and 3x9 drivetrain, I find each and every mix has its place.
1x9 with big jumps? Yeah why not, if prices are according to PB and not on the comments!
For less than 150euros I get a SLX 11s upgrade kit {RD+Cassete+Shifter+chain)
  • 1 0
 I like the idea of something like this for my freeride bike. I don't need an 11-speed drivetrain on it, I just need something durable and reliable with a low granny gear to winch myself up the hill and a few higher gears for descending. The wider chain on a nine-speed is tougher and deals with sloppy conditions far better than an 11 or 12 speed. I'm not taking the thing on trail rides with lots of undulating terrain, so I don't really need a bunch of close ratios. Although the price of that cassette is a bit much to stomach.
  • 2 1
 So for roughly the same retail pricing as an ENTIRE SOX DRIVETRAIN I can buy a cassette, derailleur, and a shifter from a company I’ve barely heard of, then turn around and spend more money on a chain and a crank? All so I can get less gears with the same range as a low end NX drivetrain and guaranteed worse shifting?

Hard pass. TRP’s new drivetrain might end up being that 3rd option.
  • 2 0
 I like it but was hoping for something similar to the 9speed microshift that was reviewed months ago. I see we still have very different ideas about what "budget-friendly" means
  • 1 0
 I keep seeing comments about the strength gain on a 9 speed chain. Ive had multiple failures with 9 speed chains, and zero with 12 speed chains. If anything I find 12 speed chains to be stronger than 9 speed. The pins are shorter, making them stronger. The side plates are thinner but they've never been a problem for me.
  • 1 0
 Only way I see this working is if they dial back the cog size from 50 to like a 46/44 and ditch the stupid unibody design for a solid setup as this will tear up a alloy block in no time at all!! Although I only buy wheels with steel bodies... and then I reckon the emtb market will snatch these up!! Otherwise one maybe 2 dentists might buy it
  • 1 0
 There is the "box two" and "box three" drivetrain on their website. They should suit you more.
  • 2 0
 While I get the attraction and point of having less gears, the weight of the cassette is hardly a pro. A few grams and you lose 3 gears and you only save like $20 to $30 over XO1 eagle.
  • 1 0
 I’m all for more 9 speed options. I have been running the microshift advent drivetrain for a couple months now it works great. It’s does the job and I don’t have to worry about babying it. All the parts are cheap to replace. I wouldn’t mind a lighter cassette like this but not for that much. We need sun race to come out with some higher level budget cassettes.
  • 1 0
 Over $600 USD for a 9 spd. rear derailleur, cassette, and shifter! LoLoLoLoLoL That's a joke, right?

Those last jumps on the cassette are huge and must really impact shifting & cadence.

All I want is Shimano to make a wide range 10 spd. in XT flavour. 11 - 42/46. Don't need/want a 50/51 tooth dinner plate on the rear.
  • 2 0
 I like it a lot, looks great and functionally it sounds great - there’s just one thing... My $60 Sunrace 11x46 10spd cassette works just fine! Can’t fathom paying more than $100 for one, much less $360!!
  • 3 0
 Daniel Sapp

630$ USD is budget friendly? The derailleur and shifter are resonable but 360$ for a cassette is nuts for the average human.
  • 1 0
 I’ll give this a go when available. It’s nice to have 1x with wide ratio but I never seem to shift a single gear. I’m always dumping 3-5 gears on a descent and 2-4 on punchy uphills. 9 speed has more room for error in adjustment too. I like this idea.
  • 1 0
 A light, steel-cogged cassette is a brilliant idea and an amazing piece of machining. Comes at a premium though. A long term review without the operator ever thinking they need a intermediate gear for any circumstance would be a great test for this groupset.
  • 1 0
 So I’ve sold John Deere tractors for a hot minute. In the late 70’s they had a revolutionary 8 speed power shift. It was the tits. But shifting under load it would about throw you through the windshield. Fast forward today. Similar speed range but there is a 23 speed power shift. Why? Because having smaller gaps is gear spacing make for a smoother transmission. Progress folks not regress.
  • 1 0
 Its not regressive, its just options. There is a reason why single speed bikes still exist.
  • 1 0
 I could do with like 6 gears. 1 for pedalling down hills fast 2 for pedalling down hills slower or on flat at high speed 3 for seated cruising 4 for seated fire-road climbs 5 for seated steeper trails climbs 6 for hating my my life This idea of 9 gears with huge drops appeals to me as my trails are filled with steep short ups and downs and not a tonne in between, so I'm eating gears in both directions all the time.
  • 1 0
 More drive trains like this for non-XC riders, please. 9/10/11 speed max, with similar wide range to the 12 speed eagles. Why would I need anything else if I'm not racing on the uphills? Plus chromoly steel for all wear parts. Who's bright idea was it to make drivetrain teeth out of aluminium?
  • 1 0
 XT derailuer for $68. (Current "sale") e13 11 speed for $225. The e13 has 511% range, box only has 455%. Looking forward to trying out box when its price is lower and gear range is higher. Higher gear range and reasonable steps in-between gearing would probably require a jump to 10 speed and for me, would probably be the best option
  • 1 0
 first thing i did on my new ride this year was ditch the 12 speed and go 11. Derailleur cage length is getting out of hand and 12 speed drive trains are so sensitive to alignment... even the smallest bump can mess everything up.
  • 3 0
 Top tip for Box: make your drivetrain compatible with Shimano Rapid Fire shifter.
  • 2 0
 Thanks box one to listen some of us! I'm still with 10 speeds and don't want to have 12, if your derailleur is reliable, you get me !
  • 1 1
 i'd buy this and put it on my enduro bike, and btw i dont use the smaller cogs of the cassette. may be can push it a little by ditching the smallest cogs. ie. just go 14-50T .... it is such a unique proposition already, might as well go all out!
  • 3 0
 Or get a smaller front chainring and ditch the 50.
  • 2 0
 This is awesome! Hopefully they make a lower range one in the future, 11-44ish. Nobody needs a 50t cassette ring but 9 gears can save all the double or triple shifting.
  • 1 0
 Prime 9 offers (4) different tiers to fit every budget. Our Box Four 11-42t cassette is an 8 speed with Prime 9 Technology. Learn more on prime9.com
  • 1 0
 @boxcomponents: thanks, I actually did not know that and I think its awesome.
  • 1 0
 Looks like a good option for those who want a simpler drivetrain, but not sure how competitive it will be. You can get a Shimano or SRAM 11-speed drivetrain with better gear spacing for less money and that is lighter.
  • 1 0
 To have a better chain line the cassette needs to be narrower and first gear moved away from the spokes. Then the chain needs to be 10 11 or 12 speed width.
Anyone know what the chain width is?
  • 1 0
 I was interested when I read cheaper and lighter, but a SRAM GX 11spd cassette is much cheaper than this and approximately the same weight. I don't see the point unless they can bring the price down considerably.
  • 3 0
 Looking forward to the long term review
  • 1 0
 It really does sound too good to be true. Looking forward to the long term review! Fingers crossed that the old adage is proved wrong.
  • 8 0
 It is too good to be true. Look at the prices of box's website
  • 3 0
 As @jamesthompson4858 says, it is too good to be true.

Maybe the lower tier box 4 might come in at these prices, but the box 1 is advertised at $649 www.boxcomponents.com/Box-One-P9-X-Wide-Multi-Shift-Groupset
  • 6 1
 @oldmanfalling: The pricing we had was incorrect, that's all been updated.
  • 1 0
 I'm a big dude 225# and I've been folding n destroying 11 spd cassettes when I stand and crank. Went back to lower end Sram 9 spd, problem solved. Can't wait to try this.
  • 1 0
 Also, I wonder if this uses the same spacing as old 9 speed stuff? Swap out the cage for a short 9 speed clutch mech. Purely for the strength of a 9 speed chain
  • 1 0
 The one piece cassette is cool but is it going to have a cover between cogs like my Garbaruk cassette.If it does I hope it doesn't rattle like my Garbaruk does.
  • 2 0
 I can't help but worry about my poor alloy free-hub body with that cassette.
  • 1 0
 Can I use the box derailleur and cassette with my current 9sp gripshift shifter and set up my commuter with wide range 1x instead of the 11-32 with 3x front I'm running now?
  • 1 0
 I have AXS and find 12 speeds considerably too many. It's rare that I don't grab 2-3 shifts up or down. I'm a fan of this product!
  • 2 0
 I suggested a 9spd idea to OneUp. Several years back when they did their 1st cassette gear.
  • 1 0
 This is what I have been wanting and it's great to see someone have the ballz to do it... I'm so sick and tired of double and triple tapping 80% of my Eagle shifts.
  • 1 0
 Can the cassette be used with an older XTR 9sp shifter and newer XTR long-cage derailleur? I could see the this being a great combo.
  • 3 0
 Is the cassette compatible with a Shimano 9sp shifter?
  • 1 0
 There are so many combinations of potential components that we cannot test them all. While there are some combinations that might work ok for you, we only recommend using all Box Prime 9 for the best possible riding experience.
  • 2 0
 Might have to try this out
  • 4 1
 9" is fine
  • 2 1
 Very interested in this but, I have no need for a 50th, 42 would be a done deal
  • 1 0
 Looks like there are options for 11-42t and 11-46t on the Box website
  • 1 0
 @Chavo15: NICE!
  • 2 0
 buy yourself a sunrace cassette and revel in the saving of £100's.....
  • 1 0
 @Chavo15: You are correct. Our Box Four group has an 8 speed 11-42t cassette. See full specifications and features at prime9.com
  • 5 3
 Still waiting for the industry to realize the superiority of the gearbox
  • 2 1
 That thing you can't shift under any kind of load and weight as much as an ebike engine?

I think the gearbox has some merit on a gravity oriented bike, not to sure on yer regular trail bike.
  • 3 0
 @opignonlibre: Remember how awful derailleur setups could be 15-20 yrs ago? gearbox is a better concept to start with, im sure they can work it out.
  • 1 0
 @opignonlibre: But problem with weight isn't as simple as the absolute weight of the bike. You gotta consider where that weight is, and if it's rotating.
When you take those aspects into consideration the weight battle no longer has such a clear winner.
  • 1 0
 @c-radicallis: I know there are benefits in gearbox systems but in long climbs there is definitely a clear winner. regardless of where the weight is. Just switching from a carbon hardtail to an 150mm travel alu full susser showed me how weight changes things when it comes to climbing.

If one is doing mostly lift assisted rides or only ride with partners who are less fits or using similar bikes I understand it doesn't necessarily matter though.
  • 1 0
 a closer ratio of this box one prime 9 cassette and I might be sold. Is an 11-40 or 11-42 due in the near future?
  • 1 0
 Our Box Four line is an 8-speed with Prime 9 Technology and has an 11-42t cassette. To learn more about this tier, please visit prime9.com
  • 1 0
 Looks like they have some different cassette options too for those who want a 2x or simply don’t want the granygear
  • 2 0
 I've yet to see a Box drivetrain in the wild here in the UK.
  • 1 0
 I found an old sram x9 derailleur, wounder id it has the same actuation ratio as GX and work with my gx derailleur
  • 2 0
 10-45 with a medium cage derralier would be acr
  • 2 1
 I was hoping to buy this drive train for my next bike but I can buy SRAM sx Eagle for less than half the price.
  • 2 0
 It looked appealing with the previous trade prices, retail, not so much
  • 3 0
 9 is not a prime number.
  • 1 0
 Terrible reporting . Went from a $180 drivetrain to a $360 cassette . Will skip both box an Sapp in the future .
  • 1 0
 The pricing is a joke.
@Box: No...thanks. Microshift Advent it is. 5 complete drivetrains for the price of one of yours.
  • 2 0
 $600+ so they can give me less machining... I'll stick to sram or shimano
  • 2 0
 budget friendly........? $359 cassette........budget friendly????
  • 1 0
 Is this going to be marketed towards single speed ludites that have blown out their knees?
  • 1 0
 Funny, I'm a singlespeed luddite and this is the first drivetrain to spark my interest in recent times
  • 2 0
 I’m happy to see the industry moving in that direction. Less is more. Unless it’s not enough.
  • 1 0
 I want this same quality and weight but in 11-40. I dont need 454% gearing.
  • 1 0
 Our Box Four line is an 8-speed with Prime 9 Technology and has an 11-42t cassette. To learn more about this tier, please visit prime9.com
  • 1 0
 @boxcomponents: just made the list for next build whenever it happens
  • 1 0
 This is pretty neat idea! Id love to have something like this one a trail bike.
  • 2 0
 Why is a 9sp cassette $360?
  • 1 0
 Nine is fine, Ten is zen, Eleven is heaven, Twelve is pointless, Thirteen is a ridiculous hydraulic setup.
  • 2 0
 I can't wait for a Box 2 version!
  • 2 0
 Prime 9 offers (4) different tiers to fit every budget and rider. To learn more, please visit prime9.com
  • 1 0
 This is awesome! I've been commenting about the need for fewer gears on here for years. Finally some options!
  • 2 0
 9 is like fine wine!
  • 2 3
 Actually 9sp was the worst time in history of Shimano. Soft willy shaggin’
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: what is shimano?
  • 1 0
 @jorgeposada: they make DX cogs among other things
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I thought they made fishing reals.
  • 2 0
 Hell yeah!!!
  • 1 0
 Resolution or price? What means more to you?
  • 1 0
 Cool, i like it and although i have Eagle this really appeals to me,
  • 1 0
 A reasonable price n good decision in 9 fast 11-50 shifting gear.
  • 1 0
 Thats exactly what i‘ve been waiting for!!!!!!!!!
  • 1 0
 Put your money where your mouth is Pinkbike!
  • 1 0
 The Box website says up to 3 gears per shift (on the multi shift option)
  • 1 0
 I might have to try this simply because that cassette looks so rad!
  • 1 0
 I wonder where TRP will sit in the mix of drive train options.
  • 1 0
 who the f*ck spends 360$ on a cassette?!!! No thanks.
  • 1 0
 That cassette is pure sex!!
  • 1 0
 Didn’t know that 9 was prime.
  • 2 0
 Who's budget?
  • 2 0
 must be bill gates writing the review! it beggars belief that as the sport of mtb seems to grow as a whole, nothing gets cheaper , in fact it gets more expensive! yes, new materials/technology blah blah blah, but we're being had off! budget my arse!!!!!
  • 3 0
 @murphy82: it was more budget before we were given the correct pricing. We updated all we could without doing a total re-write of the first look and did our best to clarify that point. There will be a full review where we discuss performance and whether you get what you pay for, more, or less in the future.
  • 2 2
 I'm not fond of the word hipster, but this is a fucking hipster drivetrain.
  • 1 0
 You mean that in a good way?
  • 1 0
 @BeKwik: If it had been reasonably priced I would have.
  • 2 0
 Hollywood Henderson?
  • 1 0
 Cool idea. I would be interested.
  • 1 0
 Waiting for e13 derailuer and shifter
  • 1 0
 Once the cassette is under $100 I'll buy one! Any more is insane.
  • 1 0
 Yes! I love this!
  • 2 4
 Looks like that aliexpress stuff?
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