First Ride: Pivot's New 2020 Switchblade Gets More Travel & Updated Kinematics

Feb 3, 2020 at 11:34
by Daniel Sapp  

Video: @damangler

Pivot's popular Switchblade model has undergone a significant revision for 2020. Most noticeably, the travel has increased to 142mm, up from 135mm, and the shock is now vertically oriented in the frame. There have been geometry updates as well, in order to help the Switchblade remain firmly in that aggressive trail category.

Just like the previous version, riders can choose between running 29" wheels or 27.5"+. If riders do choose to roll with the smaller wheel size, they'll want to install a taller lower headset cup in order to keep the geometry of the bike in check and the front end where it should be.

The new Switchblade has more standover than before, while still providing plenty of room to fit a water bottle inside the front triangle. There are five sizes, XS to XL, with the XS fitting riders down to 5' tall.
Pivot Switchblade Details

• Wheel size: 29" / 27.5+
• Rear travel: 142mm
• 160mm fork
• Full carbon frame
• 66° head angle (low setting)
• 75.5° seat angle
• 625mm stack / 455mm reach (medium)
• 431mm chainstays
• Weight: 29 lb Pro XTR build, size Medium
• Price: $5,499 - to $12,399 USD ($8,999 as tested)
www.pivotcycles.com

All of the models are carbon and there are several different build kits available at the Race, Team, or Pro levels. Each level has the option of a Shimano or SRAM kit. Prices range from $5,499 USD for the Race XT build all the way up to $12,399 for the Team XX1 AXS build with carbon Reynolds/Industry Nine wheels.


The Switchblade Pro XTR build, as shown, sells for $8,999 USD.


Lower LInk
The Switchblade is 1x only now and the BB area has been made a bit more stout.
Travel Decal
See that little hole below the shock bolt? That helps keep water and muck from pooling where it shouldn't.

Frame Details

All frames are Fox Live Valve ready, there is internal cable routing throughout, and everyone gets a water bottle. The smaller size frames can fit a standard bottle, while the medium and up frames will comfortably fit the larger 24oz bottles. There are also two bolts on the bottom of the top tube that can hold a tool or other accessories. There is integrated frame protection on the chainstays and downtube.

The bike is now 1x only, a move that, when coupled with 157+ spacing, allowed the team at Pivot to make the rear chainstay slightly wider, which adds some stiffness and tire clearance. Riders can mount up a 29x2.6" or 27.5x2.8" tire with room to spare.

The seat tube is now moved further forward of the bottom bracket and is long enough that the size XS can run a 100mm dropper lowered all the way to the collar. The amount of dropper post travel varies depending on frame size, with 150mm on the medium frames, and 175mm on the large and extra-large. Many riders will be able to run an even longer post than that number.

Cable Routing
Internal cable routing through wide windows make it easy to pass cables through the frame.
Plus Compatability Decal
The chainstay guard features raised ribs that mute chain slap quite effectively.

Size-specific tubing is used in all of the frames. There are different lay-ups and tubing diameters used on each size bike in order to keep the ride characteristics the same, whether someone is 6'3" and on an XL or 5'0" and on the XS. Head tubes are also short as they can be without interfering with the tapering of fork steerer tubes on the XS size bike to help get stack heights low as possible.

Last but not least, it bears mention and some applause that Pivot have done away with the Pivloc handlebar and grip system and have designed a new grip that doesn't require cutting your fancy carbon handlebar. The new "Phoenix Factory Lock-On Grip" is designed in-house at Pivot. It's left and right specific and has a tapered core to fit snugly on the bar. The ergonomic grip tapers from 30mm to 32mm and has a soft rubber compound that is designed to damp vibration.


Geometry

The Switchblade geometry has been updated, but nothing is taken to an extreme. With a 66-degree head tube angle, 75.5-degree seat tube angle, and 431mm chainstays, everything is in moderation. The size medium, tested, has an 1193mm wheelbase, 455mm of reach, and 625mm of stack. These numbers are in the "low" geometry setting.

There is a flip-chip in the upper shock mount bolt that changes the head tube and seat tube angles by a half degree and steepens everything up a bit. The chip can be rotated by simply loosening the bolts and rotating it, which means there aren't any parts to lose trailside.


Suspension

Switching the shock orientation wasn't just done for looks - it also changes the kinematics of the suspension. In order to maximize the bike's small bump compliance, Pivot worked with Fox to build a unique piston and valving tune for the DPX2 shock. There is a more aggressive rising rate on the shock tune which helps provide suppleness in the first part of the stroke, more support mid-stroke, and then a ramp-up to resist bottoming out. There's enough progression that the Switchblade can be run with a coil shock if desired.


Ride Impressions

So far I've spent two days in the desert and then a little over a week back home in North Carolina riding the new Switchblade. In Phoneix, we rode a mix of rocky and chunky technical trails with steep climbs and descents, along with plenty of rocks. Back home, it's the standard mix of high-speed chunder, square edge rocks, and wet roots.

Out of the gate, the pedaling efficiency and climbing ability of the Switchblade is quite noticeable. The DW-Link suspension keeps the bike riding high in its travel, and I never once even considered reaching down for the cheater switch on the shock. The back end of the bike stays firmly planted without squatting too much even riding up steep bits of trail. There are no sensations of getting caught up or hung in roots or rocks, even when my legs didn't want to produce the extra punch to get through them fast and stay on top of things.


Descending, the bike also feels planted and solid, and when pushing into rough turns the bike didn't exhibit any signs of uncertainty. There's plenty of support, and I didn't experience any issues of harshly bottoming out the bike, even though I was consistently using the suspension to its full amount of travel. It's very quiet right out of the box, too, with no extra sound-muffling measures required.

The new Switchblade is a proper all-around, aggressive trail bike that doesn't take things to the extremes in the geometry department. It strikes a good balance of modern and capable without being over the top, traits that should allow it to work well in a wide range of terrain.








363 Comments

  • 453 23
 It's nice that you tested the mid level build at only 8,999$. Sometimes i find it almost annoying that you only review the expensive bikes.
  • 110 3
 Don’ t read beauty magazines, they only make you feel ugly.:-)
  • 125 2
 Well with Pivot it's either expensive, more expensive or most expensive
  • 163 11
 We've got a value-oriented Field Test that's getting underway very soon - there are plenty of more affordable bike reviews in the works.
  • 104 22
 @mikekazimer: I'm sorry, but anything over 10K for a bicycle is completely insane. Even an ebike.
  • 97 31
 @brassinne: Some people think spending 100k on a car is insane when you can buy one for 30k but if its a car that you enjoy and appreciate then its worth whatever you're willing to pay...
  • 9 6
 Pretty wild how much they charge for (presumably) live valving. @ 10k I find it difficult you can't get live, pivot's carbon wheeels and xtr. Their top of the line everything always seems to be 20% too much. It's ignorant of them to think that piecing everything together ourselves should cost the same.
  • 34 20
 @VPS13: Exactly. You could say the same about watches. 10$ Casio will tell the time the same as million dollar Rolex. Would you call the guy buying Rolex insane? He likes it, he can afford it, it makes him happy, good for him.
  • 14 15
 @brassinne: And a quick google search shows that 9K USD is approx 12,000 CAD lol. Dentists rejoice
  • 40 31
 What is it about dentists? Other people earn shit loads of cash and chuck it about too: sounds like a bit of jealously to me @gunners1:
  • 42 0
 @enduroNZ: its a popular phrase, not to be taken literally. You can swap for your profession of choice
  • 19 0
 @VPS13: The rate of difference on the number of parts, materials, systems and design of cars at the $100 000 mark compared to the $30 000 is massive compared to the bike industry.
The percentage difference in price is the only thing that's comparable.
  • 16 8
 @Ian713: I'm responding to the guy saying anything over 10k is insane, merely saying if someone has the cash and wants to buy something, who are we to say otherwise..
  • 28 6
 @Ian713:

I think if you look closely you will find quality is the difference in Pivots case. Check the tolerances, size of linkages and bearings, flip chip, layup and even paint. Lateral stiffness remains the same for years. Other bikes fall to bits before a pivot even begins to develop play.
  • 3 0
 @VPS13: I thought he was talking about the value aspect. In the sense you're talking about, well yeah, you do make a good point.
  • 7 1
 @professed: Well you got me there, I don't have the money for a Pivot so I guess I'll never know. I'll defer to your experience and bow out.
  • 7 2
 I splurged on the Trail 429 last year. XO build, X/T brakes, few extra touches. It wasnt cheap, but I’ve found it worth every penny just for the ride experience it offers. Same ballpark as Yeti, Ibis and others price wise. Deals can be had.
  • 11 0
 @enduroNZ: Are you a anti dentite ;->
  • 11 0
 @VPS13: $30k for a car???
  • 13 0
 @VPS13: Valid point, but I'd like to see actual measurable proofs on what differences a $5,000, or $7,500, and a $10,000+ bikes are. There are enormous differences in cars between the price ranges you mentioned. Is saving a half a pound worth $2,500 to the mtb market? Oh "crisper shifting" that's worth $1,000....? haha Not directing my sarcasm at you, but just shooting from the hip. And quoting some of the mumbo-jumbo you'll hear....haha
  • 37 0
 @mikekazimer: You guys have been noticeably taking feedback from your readers and applying it. There are actual negative reviews now, not just read between the lines articles. You're doing "low cost" (no such thing in the mtb market imo) reviews on all sorts of things. Kudos to you and PB for doing that. We appreciate it.
  • 3 2
 Climb on Mormon near the top.
Descent on Javelina,half way down Smile
  • 8 1
 If you want a Pivot, just go full "dentist." If you want a 5k bike, you have lots of other brands to choose from with better build specs.

Also, I think they're just reviewing this bike right now because everyone will be today. Bike Mag, Vitalmtb, singletracks, enduro-mtb, nsmb, basically all of them are reviewing the same exact team xtr w/ reynolds build kit in thier "first ride review" today.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: anything with 170 or more travel?
  • 11 2
 @BigballmcCall: I wait a year or 2, and scoop up these bikes from pinkbike for 1/4 the cost. A lot of Dentists tend to ride the bike 4-5 times and then it sits in the basement collecting dust.
  • 4 4
 Yeah sorry, if you spend this much money for any of these specs you're a straight up sucker. Direct to consumer bikes are too good nowadays, and plenty of brands that make bike shop bikes are a better value as well.
  • 14 1
 @i-am-lp: well most Rolex watches dont fall in price even used- or stay the same.

Your 10k Pivot looses 4k when you put it in your car the First time.
  • 31 12
 Come on folks, since when Pivot was a value for money brand? They look like great bikes but it’s something you buy because Yeti, Ibis and Intense don’t offer super boost plus...
  • 7 2
 @i-am-lp: actually, a quartz Casio has far higher accuracy than a mechanical Rolex... The price is in the brand name, finishing and the emotion that mechanical watches bring with them.
At least a $10k bike usually performs slightly better than a $3k bike on its core use... Price/performance is crap though.
  • 10 0
 @pistol2ne: Live is almost $4k aftermarket, High End Carbon wheels ~$2k, frame is probably going to be in the mid 3k range. Your budget is now about a grand for the cockpit, dropper, and XTR.

TL;DR Expensive things are expensive.
  • 7 2
 AHAHAH! But you have the sweedish flag! Average incon is around 4850 USD (IAW : jobseurope.net/2017/08/31/average-salaries-sweden)

now imagine for those who live in european countries that earn half... and even less!

Bikes shouldn't cost as much as motorcycles!
  • 2 2
 @VPS13: whatever you gotta do to justify the huge hole in your wallet..
  • 6 2
 @VPS13: Yep. I considered installing a hitch on my family sedan and buying a Kuat rack... But then I found a 1996 Dodge ram with 100k miles on it for $300. After replacing the water pump, I appreciate shuttling throughout the SEC whilst saving roughly $25,500 compared to what you suggest for a reasonable car Smile
  • 15 1
 @brassinne: The best reason to love the halo models is because of trickle down. There are people out there who can afford to buy the 10-11k dollar bikes, and they get to guinea pig the wireless shifting, dropper posts, new forks, new frame design.

Those people who buy those bikes with the highest end technology give the manufacturer the ability to refine the products, and over time, it will fall down to prices us mortals can justify. I remember when 1x11 came out, and it was revolutionary (depending on who you ask), and expensive. Now we have SLX and GX 1x12 for $400 dollars for a drivetrain brand new.

That's why I love bikes that cost as much as my housing for the year.
  • 5 8
 @TDMAN: that list is quite off - quarry and mining more than Engineer?! it should tell you a thing or two. 4850 average... maybe in central Stockholm.
  • 13 4
 It sounds like you peasants better stick to YT. ????
  • 7 6
 @VPS13: That's not really the point. If I was the sultan of Brunei, I'd get gold plated Unno with diamonds embedded into the frame. Because I could afford it. It isn't about being able to afford it or not, it's about the fact that a pivot, for example has no real reason for being this expensive. And $16000 for an ebike that doesn't go 0 to 60 in under 1.5 seconds and have a 300 mile range just seems overly expensive to me as well.
  • 4 1
 @i-am-lp: show me one person on here that's buying the million dollar Rolex. Basically what you're saying is if you're rich you can enjoy the finer things in life while guys like me have to save up for 2 years to afford a 6 thousand dollar bike.
  • 3 0
 @mhoshal: I’m not sure what he’s saying, but yeah, that’s kind of how it goes. Want something? You either have the money, or you have to save up and buy it. Or make a trade-off and buy something acceptable that you can afford.
  • 7 7
 @brassinne: I agree with you. Pivot, etc are using the same parts as other brands. The only thing that sets them apart is there frame which really isn't worth paying the extra cost for.
  • 11 0
 I must say, when I see prices like that I'm always in awe about how bike companies like Pivot with their pricing even manage to survive.
  • 2 1
 @enduroNZ: you must be new here... welcome to pinkbike!
  • 1 0
 @honda50r: That's about the average transaction price for a car in the USA.
  • 7 1
 @cky78: Are you saying a $30k mid-size car following all traffic laws on a summer day fundamentally does a different job than a $100k mid-size car on the same day? Starts, stops, goes forward, has windows, turns, etc?

The pricing in the bike industry mirrors the car industry. I.e. people seem pretty happy to pay loads more money for incrementally small improvements.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: axs for control groupset tho
  • 11 8
 @brassinne:
Design + Engineering + R&D + Manufacturing [ material , labor , finishing ] + Quality Control + Freight + Tariffs [ thx Trump ] + B to B Sales + Marketing; a lot of invisible costs go into bringing a great bike to market.

I'm actually happy that Pivot will never make a bullshit bike just to appease the masses.
The brand is quality, and if I ever decide to sell/upgrade, it holds value for years not seasons.

If you can't afford a world class racing bike, who would blame you?
Buy something in your means and have a nice time anyway.
  • 12 0
 @VPS13: I am a lover of nice cars, but it's not an apples:apples comparison as there are more marginal gains with bicycles. A $3,000 Commencal isn't going to feel too different from a $12,000 Specialized to most people, whereas literally everyone would be able to tell the difference from a $30k Sonata and a $100k M8 or 911 Carrera.
  • 4 1
 @VPS13: Not really, at that point you're just buying it to show off how much money you have.
  • 8 0
 @Mac1987: C'mon, the price is in getting to say "Look how much I spent on this watch" because you can't bring your expensive car into the bar with you.
  • 2 5
 @TDMAN: But bikes are so much better than motorcycles. You can't even get cardio on a motorcycle.
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns: The secondary list at that link shows dentists' salary at only 5219 eros/mo. Not nearly the income implied by Pinkbike conventional wisdom.
  • 1 0
 @scary1: Looks like it! As a Phoenix local who makes a few trips to Brevard each year to ride, I recognize most of the trails for once.
  • 8 1
 @Inertiaman: In the goodl ole US of A, a dentist at your average practice makes about $250k a year, while a specialist (maxillofacial surgeon) can make up to $500k a year. If they own their own practice, you're looking at doubling those numbers.

The fun had at the expense of dentists on Pinkbike is warranted.
  • 5 0
 @brassinne: 10K??! How about anything over 7K is insane. (assuming you're not a pro racer.)
  • 5 0
 @TheR: true, but that doesn't mean that one has to be happy with price increases far above inflation level. The money (corrected for price levels) that used to buy you a mid-level bike now buys you an entry-level one. That entry-level one is better than the old mid-level one, but that is a false argument, because it doesn't cost more to produce. TV's, phones and most other stuff got better as well without major price increases (top level phones got more expensive, but low- and mid-level have gotten both better and slightly cheaper).
  • 3 13
flag DH-Angel (Feb 4, 2020 at 10:05) (Below Threshold)
 WHY Pay 9K when at YT you can get a better bike for 4.5K
  • 2 0
 @fullendurbro: relative production costs between the two will also differ less with the bikes.
  • 4 5
 @Inertiaman: I know a dentist in Sweden, she’s a wonderful girl. Rides Enduro expert. Doesn’t earn loads. My dentist in Poland is a great guy. Dentists that my kids see from time to time are great even though a bit dogmatic. Then there is this private clinic I’ve been to, looking like plastic surgery clinic... If it caught fire and I Somehow drove by with a fire truck, I’d take a bucket, sucked gasoline out of the tank with a hose and threw it into fire...
  • 6 0
 @brassinne: The pro build cost MORE than the new KTM 690. "Cocaine is a hell of a drug" (Rick James)
  • 7 1
 @Mac1987: Yeah, you don't have to be happy about the price, but what are you going to do? Tell Pivot that bike is not worth the money? Good luck with that.

In the end, you really only have two choices -- buy it at the price they're selling it, or don't buy it. It sucks if a cool bike you like is out of your price range, but that's life, man. Maybe down the road Pivot will decide they're getting their asses handed to them by the likes of YT and Commencal and lower their prices to compete, or none of these bikes will move at full prices and you'll get a better deal, but until then, it's just the way it goes.
  • 1 0
 Yeah, and here I was sweating whether or not I could afford it.
  • 3 0
 @vsong: * Their....
  • 1 0
 @NotNamed: first thing I thought, these will still be expensive on pro’s closet or competitive next year
  • 1 0
 @i-am-lp: and thx to them, they like fresh stuff so they'll sell in a 1-2 years and it'll be in the $3500 range!!!
  • 1 0
 @professed: yup, my mechanic says same. look at those cable ports for starters..nice
  • 2 0
 @brassinne: They also make their frames in Burma, which is even cheaper than Taiwan.
  • 1 3
 or you can buy the last generation switchblade for a fraction of the price

www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2714176
  • 11 6
 @fullendurbro: Since when did being successful become lame? Man, you’re all a bunch of low expectation having mother f’ers.
  • 3 1
 @i-am-lp: The $1M Rolex owner is likely not happy unless others notice his Rolex, just sayin'.
  • 5 0
 @SlodownU: Wait, what? Who said anything about success being lame? I consider myself successful and am happy for anyone who makes enough money to buy a "dentists" bike. In a perfect world, it's a luxury everyone would have.

I'm just saying that dentists are appropriately made fun of for being rich. LOTS of jokes are made about me and people in my career outside of Pinkbike. PB just latched onto dentists for some reason.
  • 3 0
 @jitenshakun: the differences between a $100k car and a $30k car are a bit more than a incremental wouldn't you say? Of course they both start and stop, dumb it down much? Haha I'll wager dollars to donuts that the increases in performance between a vehicle, and one 3x the cost far outweighs a mtb and one 3x the cost. Which isn't even really the point in trying to make. What I'm saying is let's see so reviews with actual measurable data for the differences between the lowend and high end bikes. Let the consumer make the choice whether the the increases in performance are worth the added cost, to them. We're trying to hold the bike manufacturers accountabke here, not point fingers at one another.
  • 2 0
 @VPS13: Some would say spending $30k on a car is batshit insane when you can get a perfectly good one for $10k.
  • 8 0
 @fullendurbro: I think that Dentists deserve all the money that they make. Dentists and ass doctors, both sticking their hands into the filthiest parts of the human body.
  • 6 0
 @cky78: Ferarri F8 Tributo has a 0-60 of 2.9 seconds for an easy $293,000. A Corvette has the same 0-60 of 2.9 seconds for an easy $60,000.

I'm not saying $8,000 for bicycle is chump change, but the bike industry isn't unique in charging a lot more money for improvements that are very hard to quantify.
  • 1 0
 @SlodownU: correct. Yank bloody parts out of my disgusting pie hole and I you deserve $$
  • 1 0
 @VPS13: $200k+ worth of cars parked in the garage of a $400k townhouse does not compute to me but hey, different strokes I suppose.
  • 1 0
 @VPS13: $200k+ worth of cars parked in the garage of a $400k townhouse does not compute to me but hey, different strokes I suppose.
  • 4 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I hope most brands would never offer super boost plus. Most of the mtb market doesn't even notice the difference between non-boost and boost.
  • 2 4
 @Ajorda: well super boost plus is possibly the weakest wheel ever made because of huge imbalance between drive side and non-drive side. Just change the hub to 157DH as soon as you get the bike...
  • 4 0
 @jitenshakun: Except car performance is easy to quantify, you just did it. The industry has been doing it for the last 60yrs. Bike performance is all seat of pants, and whatever sites like this get paid to shill. Car mags shill too, but they at least have hard numbers.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: can you guys please include Marin in your “value bike” reviews soon. Your missing the boat.
  • 2 1
 @NielsensBicycles, we recently featured the San Quentin, and we've reviewed multiple value-priced models from Marin over the last few years. www.pinkbike.com/news/field-test-hardtails-marin-san-quentin-3-vs-specialized-fuse-comp-29.html
  • 2 3
 @mikekazimer: I appreciate that. I can tell by your response that I’m barking up the wrong tree.
  • 1 5
flag thenotoriousmic (Feb 4, 2020 at 23:58) (Below Threshold)
 @professed: mate it’s made from the same cheap Chinese plastic as pretty much everyone else. Probably even the same factory.
  • 1 0
 @brassinne: what about Levo for 17000usd?
  • 1 0
 @Mac1987: you have made some very well-reasoned, and well-epxplained arguments. I'm siding with you in this.
  • 1 0
 @mashrv1: Like lawyers at Specialized.
  • 1 0
 @enduroNZ: is a dentist
  • 1 0
 @gumbytex: sounds like you have ridden them all to directly compare. Write some reviews then. “Anything over $150 For wheels is dumb”. Something like that.
  • 2 0
 @jitenshakun: You're making my point for me. There are actual measurable metrics to use to compare. Maybe they're the same, maybe they're not. Let's find out though. I'm a numbers man, and if I see less value in not buying that bike. Ultimately the goal here is to hold the bike industry accountable.... That and lower these ridiculous prices. Want to charge 10g's for a bike? Cool, it just needs to be actually measurably better than your 8000 bike... I'm really not sure why you're arguing with me about wanting accountability and lower prices lol
  • 1 0
 @cky78: exactly it means other brands have to match them in order not to look second rate. Five years ago you couldn’t spend £5k on a mountain bike these days you’re looking a mid range builds and for what carbon? Perron and bruni were both on aluminium absolutely no evidence that carbons better and its doubled the price of mountain bikes and nobody’s questioned it.
  • 1 0
 @PNdubRider: Lots of people at the trailheads hauling around bikes that are worth more than the cars that they are being hauled on.
  • 1 0
 @T-T: It'll hold value for maybe 5 years max. Then you'll be lucky to get a fifth of what you paid for it...
  • 1 1
 @VPS13: It’s easy for me to imagine value in a sub-$10k automobile. I can’t say the same about a $10k+ bicycle. Once again different strokes...
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: Mike have you rode this bike? How does it ride compared to the Ripmo?
  • 1 0
 Almost as annoying as a model which only comes in plastic. No aluminum? Why? Guess it's assumed we all shit Benjamins on demand.
  • 2 2
 @PNdubRider: I think the value is there, its just a matter of does the average rider need that little bit to make them ride better (i believe the answer is no). On paper its easy to see why they cost more when you start putting kashima droppers, forks, carbon drivetrains etc, all the parts add up to make the fiscal value that much more, but again the average consumer doesn't need those little trinkets for anything more than the personal satisfaction.
  • 1 2
 @i-am-lp: Weeeell, your argument is kind of misleading. Better example might be to compare a $1k high end watch ... Because no bike in the conversation with Pivot is a $10 Casio. In that scenario, there is arguably little more you get from buying Rolex in terms of practical value. Just because some douche has enough money to overpay doesn't make him less of a douche, nor does it make the product any less overpriced. I can buy an app in the play store (or at least I could) for $1k that does nothing more than show a picture of a diamond. If I do, the app is still overpriced and I'm still a douchebag.
  • 1 0
 @SlodownU: Not the switchblade.
  • 160 0
 135mm travel to 142. Wonder if the next iteration will have 148mm or they'll just say sod it and go straight to 157.
  • 1 0
 Hahaha I was thinking the same
  • 91 10
 Make it aluminum.
Make it SLX.
Make it 3500$
Then we'll talk.
  • 65 2
 Banshee says hi!
  • 37 0
 @feeblesmith: So does Ibis
  • 22 3
 @schwaaa31:
As does Commencal
  • 20 1
 Nukeproof Reactor is giving you sexy glances from the dark corner of the room
  • 8 4
 As does YT
  • 4 25
flag phclaw (Feb 4, 2020 at 6:23) (Below Threshold)
 @gumbytex: and santa cruz
  • 25 5
 And make it 35lbs.
  • 4 0
 As if you don't have that option elsewhere.
  • 7 1
 And Canfield
  • 8 3
 Canyon and YT both offer a full carbon trail bike with decent components for 3500$ (, which are also both available in aluminium if thats more your thing).
  • 9 2
 @scvkurt03: for real! so many complaints about how expensive these bikes are, when there are so many good affordable options. people just love to whine...
  • 4 0
 @benmoosmann: Facts. And commencal meta (even tho its not carbon). Ive heard that all these bikes perform better than the switchblade.
  • 11 1
 I agree fully, but I feel like these responses highlight exactly why Pivot maintains these high pricepoints, in a kind of backwards way. If they made sub 5k builds, they'd be just another bike company.
  • 9 1
 @Shafferd912: Didn't this bike (in this version) just launch today? You have a source for all these reviews saying these bikes are better?
  • 21 1
 The SLX build is called "Race XT". Everything is SLX except for the build name and derailleur. Same thing for SRAM, "X01" build is mostly GX parts. What a joke.
  • 3 1
 @lpat1717: Nope, im talking about the old one. Said bikes also compare to the Pivot Firebird. a $7k enduro bike. (where as these are all $3500)
  • 6 1
 @Shafferd912: So your comment is a bit dated at this point, wouldn't you agree? Original Switchblade was introduced in 2016...so what are we comparing here?
  • 2 0
 @lpat1717: I'm saying that these bikes are said to be better than the old switchblade, and possibly firebird. I'm wondering how the new Switchblade compares....
  • 3 0
 @feeblesmith: Current generation Banshee aint cheap. NZ$7500 for v3 Rune or Titan with Fox suspension, alu wheels and xt drivetrain. I would love to replace my V2 Rune with a mullet Titan but I can get Giant Reign 29 Advanced for $1500 less (not quite as well spec'd but not so far off) or a Reign 27.5 for $2k less.
  • 1 1
 @splitlit: everything is XO1 (even the chain) with exception of cassette. Yes, cassette is a key piece but...only GX piece from what I see
  • 2 0
 @philrossnz: Pricing of Banshee complete bikes depends heavily on who is doing distribution for your country. Banshee themselves only ship frames. Some distributors have great spec for the money on their complete bikes, some don't.
  • 4 1
 @jclnv: Wahhhh my bike weighs 32 lbs how am I ever going to make it up the hill. Suspension kinematics are so good for most bike nowadays you wouldn't even notice a few pounds until you're doing big lines.
  • 2 1
 Scott Bikes Genius 940 ticks all those boxes, aluminum, SLX/XT 1x12, 150mm travel, and $3599
  • 2 3
 @nozes

So make it shitty. Got it.
  • 70 15
 The number of people on pinkbike whining and complaining about the price of Pivot, Yeti and other boutique brands is so old and tiresome at this point. I can name ten bikes just off the top of my head from Giant, Trek, Specialized, Rocky etc that are between 3500 and 5500 CAD which are phenomenal bikes that will do everything you need and last the test of time. There is no shortage of awesome bikes for reasonable prices these days and we can thank brands like Pivot and Yeti for the trickle down that has allowed that to happen. Not to mention the fact that Pivot and brands like it represent the pinnacle of technology and development hence the pricepoint. These brands are meant to be aspirational for people and something to work toward, or simply shift you're priorities if its important to you. I love cars and would love a new Porsche GT3 but I don't jump on Porsche's instagram to whine and cry about the fact that it costs 200K. What I can do is go buy a GTI or a Focus RS for a quarter of the price or less. It does fundementally the same thing in the end. This is exactly what everyone else can do, go buy a Giant Reign Advanced or a Trek Fuel EX and then work hard and save your pennies for the Pivot. Just stop the pathetic whining and complaining. It's so old and tiresome to read comments from tons of adults who still don't undertand how the economy and capitalism work and just want the pinnacle of product to be given to them for cheap. What you are asking for is to pay Honda Civic money for Porsche or Ferrari levels of performance and brand name, and then when you don't get it you bitch at the company....it is so embarrasing.
  • 25 9
 The problem is, there's a worlds difference between a Porsche and a Honda Civic,but the difference between this bike and and say a Giant Reign is marginal. And you can't even say the Pivot is built to higher standards or with better materials.
  • 7 16
flag SlodownU (Feb 4, 2020 at 12:09) (Below Threshold)
 @nozes: Pivots are made in Burma. Congrats to them, they found a cheaper place to make bikes than Taiwan, so their margins are higher, good business move. Pivot apparently is also making Turners now with Pivot stickers on them. Another wise business move since most of the Sallies here care more about looks anyway, and those vertical shock-mounted bikes do look better than what Pivot had before. Expect their entire line to go this way. And the Porsche analogy is a bad one because while they're good, they're also way over-priced, but drive nothing like a GTI or RS. Original poster has obviously never driven a Porsche before (Pro-tip - ditch the wide brimmed Red Bull hat, clean up, go to a Porsche dealership and ask to take one on a test drive, they'll let you). But at the end of the day, who actually pays retail? You can score this bike as a left-over at the end of the season. Or when Turner actually starts making mountain bikes again.
  • 20 5
 @nozes: I beg to differ, go ride a Giant Reign29 2 which retails in Canada for $3500 and then ride Pro Build of the Switchblade for $9000 CAD. Ride them back to back and then tell me the difference is "marginal." In my work I have access to both brands and I can tell you the difference is far from marginal. There are many incremental improvements that when added together make the Pivot a better bike. The fact is the Reign would take care of most riders just fine but the difference to a pro build in a Pivot is exceptional. Being familiar with Pivot's manufactuering process I would argue that the build quality also far exceeds that of the Giant but I wont even get into that. Now lets assume that I am right (because I am) and there is a difference and the Pivot is indeed obviously a better performing bike. In your mind the $5500 premium you pay for the Pivot wouldn't be worth it. However, the price of the Pivot is dictated by what the market will pay for it, and these bikes have no problem selling at their listed price. In fact, most Yeti, Pivot and other boutique brands are sold out by the time riding season starts.

So you may not agree with the pricing but clearly others are willing to pay the premium. That's what make Pivot and Yeti aspirational brands in the first place. If you want all the incremental improvements that make it a better bike you have to pay for it.....or dont and just buy a Giant or Trek or whatever. Just stop complaing and whining that you can't afford the latest and greatest.

Also, people always seem to give car companies a pass on this and don't complain about a car they will never be able to buy. The reality is no different in the auto industry. A Porsche 911 has many improvements over a VW GTI. They both on the road are ultimately very similar, both are perofmance cars and fun to drive but one costs quadruple. Thats because the market dicates that people will pay a huge premium for the 911. I can't afford a 911 so I buy a GTI, but I don't freak out on Porsche for not making a 30K 911.
  • 10 4
 @SlodownU: Porsche isn't overpriced because the market has shown that people buy them and in some cases pay a dealer mark up for coveted models like 911R or GT3RS. Also, you can ditch the condescending "Pro Tip" because I have gone to the Porsche experience centre in LA twice and driven them on a track. Happy to provide photos as it was a fantastic day. BUT on the road a Focus RS and a 911 within the confines of the road rules are very similar. Is the Porsche better? Obviously it is. You clearly don't think the price premium would be worth it, but others disagree which is why Porsche has no problem selling these models for the price they do.

The exact same applies to Pivot and other boutique brands.
  • 8 14
flag SlodownU (Feb 4, 2020 at 13:34) (Below Threshold)
 @Senna8730: Pivot does not play in the same space as Yeti or Ibis as an aspirational brand, although they're trying with the price premium and new look, which is a lot cleaner and more "premium" looking. I also know a lot of guys who rode Pivots, and every single one of them broke some their frames, so this perceived quality thing is just that, perceived. They ride nicely vs. Giant because of the DW-Link. I'm willing to bet that a Pro-Build Giant comes close though (rode one, it does). Bike companies are pushing the envelope as far as pricing goes for essentially the same bike as 5-years ago from a construction perspective. The carbon hasn't changed, the process hasn't changed, and labor is still cheap. So why do I have to pay $6-7k and not get the top-spec suspension I got before? Especially when something like XT is actually cheaper now vs. before. What exactly am I paying this premium for? That's the BS here.

As far as Porsche goes, yes, they are great cars, and having driven several Porsches (different models across different generations) and the RS, the on-road experience between the 2 is nothing alike, those 2 cars can't be any more different from each other, whether your just driving around or pushing 10/10ths.
  • 6 11
flag nozes (Feb 4, 2020 at 13:54) (Below Threshold)
 @SlodownU: Exactly my thoughts.
I think Pivot is trying to establish itself as a premium/top level brand by charging high prices.
We've seen this before. Pivot is not Yeti,ir Santa Cruz,IMO.
  • 1 0
 @Senna8730: I feel a better comparison might be a Porsche GT2RS vs a.....Senna.
  • 1 0
 @PNdubRider: hahaha I like this
  • 6 1
 @Senna8730: My take is that despite the inflated pricing (they're on par or more expensive than yetis), they nickle and dime you everywhere they can. For instance, as I mentioned above the race "XT" and "X01" builds are SLX and GX builds, with a higher end derailleur slapped on. It screams of marketing bs.

I'd also love a GT3, but I certainly don't expect it to have Carrera S wheels, suspension, transmission, and brakes.
  • 2 0
 Agreed! If people want boutique and have the money...go nuts! I hope they enjoy. You can still buy them used for half price a year later. I personally ride a Giant because that's kind of my style. I don't like flash.
  • 4 4
 The thing is that even though pivots are a "boutique" brand they might only be so based on intent and ridiculous pricing. They tend to always be a little bit off if not quite a bit off on what's considered modern geometry and always pushing goofy bs like super boost plus or fox live valve and there bikes tend to be just plain goofy looking (except the fire bird 29 and maybe the 5.5) they're like the saabs of the mtb world. Just my opinion which isn't worth much.
  • 1 0
 @Senna8730: the rules of the road are irrelevant when discussing mountain biking where there are no speed limits. you may not be able to drive your Porsche on the road like you're on the Nurburgring but you can still go pretty damn fast and use the car the way its designed.
  • 1 0
 Now this is a rant I can get behind
  • 1 0
 @flembake: make rants great again
  • 2 0
 I agree with all of this except the "trickle down" theory. I think many companies are developing fine bikes on their own, Pivot is using a DW link that is proprietary to pivot, and yeti's thing is...yeti's thing, neither are trickling anywhere very fast. VPP was developed by Outland bikes in the nineties. DW was originally Iron Horse, and Horst Leitner, the guy who first created the Horst link in 1985-ish used in on Rocky, Mongoose, turner, maybe other's.

Not necessarily better tech on more $$$ bikes, just more $$$, and for a lot of customers, that's enough reason to spend more $$$

Whats the difference between a VW golf R and an Audi TT? So unbelievably similar, from interior, to engine, to construction, so many ways. the price is the biggest difference, because Audi...
I own a GTI, so I take this as high praise Smile
  • 3 0
 Someone else already pointed out what the issue is. How they described it sounds like price creep. I.E. some boutique brands keep ratchetting up their prices, and then the affordable manufacturers keep pace with those. Basically, market consumers are starting to protest.
If you're so above everyone, why not just remain silent in your lofty heights?
  • 28 2
 Having owned last generation for about 1.5-2 years, it's undoubtedly a good bike but having switched from my switchblade to giant trance 29, I didn't lose anything except the weight. Trance is as good if not better than previous generation SB for downhill and kills it uphill and over undulating terrain. It's lighter and more nimble despite the SB famously short chainstays.

Oh, and I managed to break the SB just by regular trail riding.

But the huge issue is the price. Why would one pay double or close to that for Pivot? It's not any better or more refined or luxurious like you get with the cars or motorbikes when you pay more.
  • 31 1
 The xt build is almost all slx just xt derailleur
  • 19 1
 This is how they do almost all their bikes, it's ridiculous.
  • 6 2
 @Doogie711: it's pretty insulting
  • 3 2
 @travieso429: Really Insulting! Money should be saved on the rear mech, not the shifter. My moongoose came like that in the 90ies, xt shifter and deore dx deraileur. Anyone min-maxing cost-performance will.

So clearly performance were not drving spec at that pricepoint...weak!
  • 30 7
 Nice job Pivot, not buying fully into the "new geo" trend and keeping things real. Not too low BB at 13.85, not too long with 1216mm WB and not too slack with 66 HA.

Looks like a nice balanced trail bike that you wont have to worry about being taken out by 1" rock pedal strike on a fireroad and wont turn like a 747 taxing down LAX in the slow twisty stuff.
  • 2 30
flag jclnv (Feb 4, 2020 at 9:15) (Below Threshold)
 140mm bike with a 160mm fork? Yeah really well balanced.
  • 6 4
 @jclnv: well... we both know the trend is leaning towards 160 front and 120 rear Smile
  • 2 6
flag SlodownU (Feb 4, 2020 at 11:40) (Below Threshold)
 Nice Job Pivot, looks like a Turner. Should have called it the 2020 RFX (since Turner is likely no more, guess it was safe to rip them off?).
  • 5 1
 @jclnv: Ever thought about the rear travel being vertical and the fork travel parallel to the headangle? Front vertical travel checks out at about 146mm and due to the rear travel being way more tunable through leverage curves, antisquat etc. I'd say it's pretty darn balanced.

Also, it's designed with a 160mm fork in mind, not as a 140mm with a longer fork slapped on there.
  • 1 0
 @NickBosshard: Ever thought about that vertical travel when descending? Suddenly the forks travel is vertical and the rear is forward...

So you’re saying DH bikes should be running 230mm forks? And 170mm AM bikes should be running dual crown 200mm forks?

I personally don’t think overforked bikes are a great idea due to the high stack (from the A-C) causing a too rearward weight distribution. The steeper head angle probably helps here by reducing front centre length but overall, +10mm feels balanced with most suspension designs I’ve ridden. Even +20mm on the Yeti’s feel a little odd I think.
  • 3 0
 @jclnv: Well the rear wheel doesn't travel straight up anyways, it's just measured that way. If you'd measure along the curve the wheel makes it'd be quite a bit more than 142mm.

Also, the front sags due to weight transfer once the terrain steepens, which effectively makes you have less travel available from the fork.

For years people just thought front and rear numbers should be equal, but in the last few years we started to see a lot of bikes with 10-20mm less travel out back compared to the fork.

Coming from two full seasons on a Pivot Mach 5.5 with 140/160mm, I got to say it feels pretty equal. It's not that 170mm bikes should have 190mm forks, but bikes with 170mm forks don't need 170mm out back.
  • 25 0
 This bike tops out at $19,999 in Australia

I guess someone's got to pay Eddie's salary
  • 5 3
 Eddie’s on fire! (Oh wait hope not)
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Hahaha!! ....too soon Waki, too soon.
  • 22 1
 No seriously, how much does it really cost?
  • 17 3
 148 should be the only rear hub spacing other than fat bikes and dirt jumpers. DH bikes don't need more than boost, 3.0 inch tires don't need more than 148. Do what the smart guys at Norco did when they realized that non-boost 150/157 became pointless once 148 showed up, and the people who still decide super boost is the way to go should have their engineering degrees burned at the stake.
  • 1 0
 Couldn't agree more. Same thing goes for imperial sized rear shocks. There's no reason at all for a bike to come with legacy shock mounts since we've got metric and metric-trunnion now.
  • 1 0
 Wide rims and/or carbon rims made superboost pointless because wheels are laterally stiff enough. Now that there's no front mech, it's double pointless.
  • 20 4
 Looks like a Turner
  • 3 1
 It’s an RFX 29er. But Turner hasn’t been doing anything in the way of development, so...
  • 3 1
 @TheR: You're right. Honestly if you put Turner stickers on this I would think its an evolution of the RFX.
  • 1 0
 @PHeller: I guess the pivot plate is different, and this has a boost rear end, but otherwise it looks like it could be a reasonable progression to a 29 version of the same bike. If this had come out a year and a half ago, o would have had this instead of the RFX.
  • 2 1
 Funny...because I thought their new Mach 4 looks like a Turner Czar
  • 1 0
 @Dopepedaler: Never noticed because I’m not in the market for that type of bike, but yep!
  • 14 1
 "Hey guys! LIke my new bike? I paid $12,399 for it! I think mountain biking is totally rad, don't you? Guys?"
  • 13 4
 160mm front fork with a 66° head angle seems a bit steep. I know it might sound like splitting hairs but atleast 65 for this category of bike makes a little more sense.

If the bike had equal travel front and rear or maybe just 150 up front with the flip chip allowing 65.5 that would be a little nicer as well.
  • 4 8
flag alwayslivingthedream (Feb 4, 2020 at 8:14) (Below Threshold)
 65 degree= young man that probably can't afford it anyways so why do that.
66 degree = old man
66.5 degree = even older man.
  • 3 3
 Seems pretty obvious that they overforked it to keep the numbers relevant. I bet they designed this bike a couple years back with 67 HA (high) and 150 fork.
  • 4 0
 @jclnv: industry is moving really quick in regards to geo.. probably another year or so till it's sorted (maybe 3 max) Then the next big thing will be axle path. Gotta keep things moving and sell moar bikes!
  • 3 2
 Pivot is one of the bike companies that have been behind the curve for a few years now. Intense is the same way. Intense put their 2020 Trail bikes out a few months ago with 74.x STA. Ridiculous.
  • 2 0
 @jclnv: 66.5* seat tube angle a couple years back!? They were ahead of the times!
  • 1 0
 @jclnv: 76.5* *** Stupid fingers
  • 2 1
 @mybaben: Intense doesn't sell because of the geometry. Intense sells because Jenson blows them out 60% off 4 months after they release. They don't give a shit; they're looking to move numbers. Last time I had to contact them for aftersales support they didn't even attempt to help.
  • 1 0
 @sherbet: Contact who, Jenson or Intense?
  • 1 1
 @mybaben: Intense direct. Had a customer buy a used bike and it eventually failed drive side chainstay. Was entirely the owner's fault, and we knew this going into it. I had told the customer support person I talked to of this, that there was no bill of sale, and that we were just looking for a retail priced replacement part. Argued with him for three days over the bill of sale for a warranty we both knew didn't apply to him. Eventually got frustrated and escalated it and was told they didn't have that part regardless, so I had just wasted my time barking up a tree with no leads. This has by far away not been my only issue with them.

Customer got a new frame from a different company, one we've had beautiful CS encounters with.
  • 1 0
 @sherbet: That's unfortunate, sorry to hear about that. I've def heard their customer service is very inconsistent. Some people have gotten superb CS, and some have really bad stories. Frown I'm in an Intense group on FB and it's weird to hear how inconsistent it is. It seems like word has gotten back to Intense and they seem to be turning over a new leaf. I've seen people get way better CS lately. Hopefully they'll continue in that direction...
  • 9 0
 Yikes Pivot. With the trends moving more and more toward direct to consumer and reasonably priced bikes you just threw caution to the wind and went the exact opposite direction. I guess if you have determined that your clientele base goes more for $7k+ bikes then more power to you. But this is not really anywhere in the realm of reasonable for most people, other than your base model bike.
  • 13 0
 The cheapest one is 5.5k. What the fuck, Pivot...
  • 4 0
 In Australia it’s 5.5k for a trail 429 frame Frown can get a complete carbon canyon for less than that.
  • 1 1
 @smogs: Then buy a complete carbon canyon. No one is forcing you to buy this bike.
  • 10 1
 i love everyone hating on Pivot, which has arguably made two of the highest rated bikes the mach 6 and firebird - that industry testers have put through the ringer. The fact that one small company has put out two bikes described as nearly perfect in their category, goes quite far in my opinion. And to those comparing them to SC...have fun at the 8k pro build with the GX parts at the same price.
  • 12 0
 I don’t like bikes that much
  • 14 2
 $12,399 for a bike with Reynolds wheels. Is that a typo? Garbage
  • 12 2
 this bike will be absolutely unrideable next year when they come out with -4mm reach; +1mm chainstay and a new hub standard.
  • 8 1
 Sure are a lot of pros with expert opinions on here. Just curious if the people complaining about pricing vs yt, giant, trek etc have ever ridden both side by side. Does yt offer a 27.5+ bike? Nope. I Just got one of these in pro xt/xtr today. Guess that makes me a sucker even though didn’t pay anywhere close to the msrp of 6,700. Personally I’m pumped to check it out. I loved the 1st gen SB and rode it hard for 3 years. It wasn’t the best looker but that wasn’t a priority of mine. hopefully this one one let me down. And btw, I’m no dentist. I’m a blue collar guy who likes to ride. I’m definitely not a pro like most of you guys one here but prob average a couple hundred miles a month. Kind of a bummer to come on here and see all this whining. Don’t like it, don’t buy it. Others are obviously willing to pay it
  • 10 2
 Pinkbike must be for the rich, otherwise why would most of their reviews be of bikes over $5000.00?
  • 8 1
 Apparently mountain biking is for the rich. Been building a FS from bargain parts. Got about $800 in for frame, fork and shock. Tried to buy wheels locally to support the LBS and they all want to order them in and tried to sell me $1,650 carbon wheels. I can only guess their customers are all loaded because I walked into their empty shop in Jean's, sweat shirt, scruffy beard and hadn't had a hair cut in three months. If I was shopping for a car, I would have looked like I had to finance a $1,650 car.
  • 4 1
 Most companies offer a mid-level fully-built carbon bike for around $5k give or take - gx drivetrain, code-r brakes (or shimano equivalent), fox-performance level suspension (or rockshox equivalent), wheels with dt-370 level hubs.
You can buy these used on pinkbike for 3-4,000 usd after a year or two.
Or you can do what a lot of us do and buy a used frame for around 2k, and slap on better/newer drivetrains, brakes and suspension. Doing this you can get the xo/xt/factory level bikes that seem to be in the 6,500-8,000 range fully built for around 5k (or far less if you're maintaining and re-using high level parts like suspension, brakes, etc rather than buying new).
Yes, mountain biking is expensive, but I wouldn't say it's for the rich. You can buy perfectly good, high quality bikes used for 2-3 grand, whether you're building it up yourself or getting it complete.
  • 3 0
 Mind you the one for 5.5k (!) is the entry level build. More than 5 grand, for a mountainbike. Let that sink in for a moment.
  • 4 0
 @vapidoscar: Part of the reason is that every Joey thinks he needs a fully EWS-capable long-travel cabon-sled. Not saying that MTB is a cheap sport but you can get a decent entry-level hardtail for a bit over 1k. Sure, you won't be "slaying" double blacks on it but you will have a ton of fun.

Not everyone needs an F1 machine as their first car. Or ever.
  • 3 1
 @vapidoscar: Now I wouldn't say that jeans, sweatshirt, beard and kinda wild hair is completely atypical appearance for mountainbikers.
  • 3 0
 @benmoosmann: this is a fair point and I'm sure that guy would be kicking himself if he tried to sell $200 wheels to a laid back rich guy when he might have gotten $2,000. You miss all the shots you don't take. But it sure put me in my place.
I have 2 $300 bikes currently and break one of them often. So I am on the single speed more often than not. I put $300 in repairs and parts on the other and when working is capable enough to make all the climbs and descents that I have thrown at it. Albeit slowly both up and down.
When all is said and done I expect my build to end up at $1,400-$1,600. With some midlevel and some entry level components. All bought at good prices. The frame is a little smaller than ideal with a slacker STA but longer and steeper than my current rides. And will be 150/130 with 65 degree head angle. I expect to have a lot of fun. And hope I don't break too much in the first season. But it will not have $1,650 carbon wheels.
  • 1 0
 There are three types of people capable of owning nice bikes; those with lots of money that can afford to choose the one they want and buy it, those with some money who buy the base model, sell all the parts it came with then build it up custom, and those with no money who work in the industry or bike shops and can get them at cost.
  • 11 3
 The bike industry needs to get their heads out of the clouds when it comes to pricing.
  • 6 0
 "Internal cable routing through wide windows make it easy to pass cables through the frame."

Still have to finagle it out the other side. Give me some TITS*, route externally, or go away.

*(Tubes In Tubes Systems)
  • 11 3
 Super boost back end has once again killed any chance of me buying one. Thanks for making the choice easy Pivot!
  • 5 2
 Hundo percent - scroll straight to superboost aaaaand Im out! Didnt they ditch superboost on another of their recent bike launches? The XC bike? Was hoping to see them come back to the light...
  • 2 0
 @DeltaNiner: The mach 4 series never went into superboost, and the new model still lacks it. The previous iteration of the switchblade was superboost, which turned me off, and given this one is too, no longer interests me at all.

Also bumping the travel up was a bit silly imo, kinda took the bike out of the category it was more suited to.
  • 1 1
 So you don't like additional stiffness and shorter chainstays?

Unless you are doing a frame only I really don't see this as a negative
  • 2 0
 @zark: Having ridden a lot of modern bikes, I cannot think of the last time I thought a bike wasn't stiff enough. Chainstays are already going sub 420mm on normal boost back ends without issue.

What's your point? You want more stiffness which nobody will take use of when everyone's talking about compliance and vibration damping? You're suggesting a shorter chainstay that nobody wants when we can already go too short on the existing mass standard? What?
  • 18 11
 No frame only for sale and still press fit. What a shame, otherwise really like their bikes.
  • 8 14
flag pakleni (Feb 4, 2020 at 0:18) (Below Threshold)
 Press fit bb is not that user friendly as threaded one but from the engineer's point of view way better in any other sense.

The real problem is not the press fit bb but unwillingness or inability of carbon frames manufacturers to stick with given tolerances. You don't see much creaky press fit bbs on alu bikes, don't you?
  • 14 2
 @pakleni: it's not engineering, it's cost.
  • 2 0
 @pakleni: Maybe, maybe not, but I do know mine creaks like buggery
  • 8 2
 And weird rear hub fitting.
Yeah I know 157mm is a so-called "standard", but it's still a big enough reason for me to not want one
  • 4 4
 @pakleni: In theory its a neat engineering solution. But in practice, pressfit is rubbish.
It works on aluminium frames, fine. But there is no point in using PF on aluminum frames. You can just cut threads and have a user-servicable BB that is proven to work just as well.
It doesn't work reliably on carbon frames, not even on the most expensive highest-end ones. Therefore there is no point in using PF on carbon frames.
  • 2 1
 @Ttimer: pressfit or threaded on carbon frames still requires metal inserts either way........
No need for press fit on alu frames..... how about way wider BB shells allowing more frame design options, stiffer stronger frames an wider rear ends, tyre clearance etc etc.

Head sets have been pressfit since day one, an no one cries about it
  • 6 1
 @boozed: but is your bike a pivot?

I have always hated the idea of PF but have had zero issues on my firebird and also a taiwanese alu frame known locally as a ‘Grove’. Its all about toleraces...
  • 2 0
 @nojzilla: I’ve had 3 PF carbon frames and 2 out of the 3 we’re all carbon without aluminum inserts. Most carbon PF frames these days do not have aluminum inserts.
  • 2 2
 @professed: It isn't, but it is PF. If the point was "you don't hear of it", well here we are.
  • 38 2
 @pakleni: I've been working in bike shops for 27 years and I've been dealing with press fit BBs for nearly 13 years. The VAST majority of creaking has come from PF30 or some variant (386EVO, BB30 etc) the majority of those have used an aluminum insert in the case of a carbon frame. Since 2013 I've worked at a Trek shop and delt with a lot of BB90 bikes and, although they do seem to go through bearings at a much higher rate than a threaded BSA unit, they do not creak. (Unless the bearings are roached in which case it's not the frame, but typically the crank/bearing interface) By far the worst offenders are Specialized and Cannondale and even the Specializeds' with the early Praxis BBs. Also, I've had a lot of customers complain about creaking BBs only to disassemble them and realize it was a direct mount chainring. Now if the bike is direct mount that's my go to first and the BB is a second look. Hell half the time it's a headset, seatpost, stem/bar interface, front axle too loose... I'll have customers bring us a bike for "I have a creaky BB, I've been to two other shops and they can't figure it out." I grab the bike and start just flexing it, twisting it, working every possible angle and repeat the creak without ever touching the BB, I regrease the headset, or loosen and retorque some random interface and send them down the road, creak free.
I often wonder how many of those weekend warrior, Manny the Mechanics are keyboard crusading about their terrible experience with creaking press fit bottom brackets, when their actual solution is likely a dirty seatpost inserted to just barely beyond the minimum.
  • 4 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: “kooks on website comment section don’t know what’s going on?”
U new here?
  • 4 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: yep. By yanking, bending, forcing a bike around nine out of ten times it's easy to isolate a creak. Biggest offenders are headsets. The pf92 on a prior Pivot and current Giant have been silent.
  • 2 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: this is a fair assertion, there are many people lacking in diagnostic skills.

I’m still not a fan and will stick with threaded.
  • 2 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: I agree. Or the saddle rails creaking in the plastic saddle pan. Or pedals installed without grease. Or the steerertube not short enough such that the topcap bottoms out before it gets the headset tight.
  • 3 1
 @nojzilla: pressfit in carbon does not require an aluminum insert.
  • 10 2
 The rocker looks fully compressed in fully extended position
  • 2 0
 I know! That's weird looking and I don't like it.
  • 5 1
 Boost 148 makes no sense from an engineering standpoint, only a marketing one. Tire and chainring clearance is simply better on 157. Some of these 148 bikes leave almost no room for error or mud on a 2.5 tire and 2.6 actually runs. JRA podcast has called out Ibis for claiming 2.6 fits when it rubs. Trek’s new Fuel EX in carbon can’t run I think a 28 chainring without chewing through the frame guard over time. Hey tires have gotten wider. Even if plus “failed” 2.5 tires surely have not. I guess if you run 2.3 tires only you don’t really need it but it does allow for a stronger wheel and increased rear stiffness for big riders. There’s little to no downside to 157 except it’s sure to provoke a negative reaction from some and that’s why more companies haven’t done it yet probably.
  • 1 1
 I meant 2.6 “rubs”
  • 1 0
 If you've got 2.6" tires on your "downcountry" trail bike, you're doing something wrong anyways.
But I wouldn't actually mind if the industry as a whole decided to switch to super boost spacing. Just hate the idea of so many different niche standards being around so nothing really is compatible.
  • 6 2
 I want an actual comparison between the old and new, because as it stands this review isn't wort much. "Goes down faster and goes up better " is the same thing said of every new bike ever.
  • 2 0
 So.True....no one ever wants to compare new bikes to what we ride today.
  • 4 1
 Hey dummies. Without a $10k bike in the lineup, your $3k bike would be utter trash. And I’m guessing margins on the flagship models are much higher... so next time you see a dentist on a bike you’d have to mortgage your house for, say thanks - he or she is effectively subsidizing your price point model.
  • 8 2
 This is a very good looking bike
  • 2 0
 The blue one is even better looking. Lines and frame design are great. Way better than the wet noodle look of the old Switchblade.
  • 7 0
 I like how the beer belly downtube is gone
  • 2 1
 @Svinyard: Yeah, I didn't like that look.
  • 3 1
 I'd be curious if weightwise there's a law of diminishing returns at work. This at 28lbs is considerably lighter than other aggressive trail bikes that cater to riders of the same category.
I've heard people say "yeah but a heavier bike is better when you're really going at it." or the like and I wonder if there's something to it.

pageing @mikekazimer
  • 3 0
 You're talking about diminishing returns, but I'd even go as far as to argue that, unless you're a pro racer, you'd probably be hard pressed even telling the difference between two bikes if their weight was only a couple of pounds apart... In my personal opinion this obsession with saving a couple of grams is absolute nonsense, especially since its usually done at the expense of durability. Those extra grams could very well be the deciding factor between your bike surviving a big hit or breaking on impact.
  • 11 7
 I'd like to be the first in welcoming Pivot to 2018. The last Switchblade was awesome when it came out, but I was hoping for some much more up to date geometry.
  • 7 1
 $12,399? Did I read that right? WTF
  • 1 2
 AXS and LiveValve. Let me know all the bargain prices your getting on other full carbon bikes with carbon wheels and both those electronics. I'm sure you can get something a bit cheaper, but its going to still be a huge price when you add all that on.
  • 3 0
 @yupstate: Don't really care what specs it has $12 399 is just retarded.
  • 2 0
 @yupstate: In my neck of the woods, the AXS/LV spec costs a full 50% more than the equivalent Scott Genius. It definitely makes the Scott look like a Bargain!
  • 6 1
 Awesome review! facts / info provided and all the BS removed. Good lookin bike and I dig the conservative geo.
  • 4 2
 It looks similar to my smash, Travel and geo. I’m sure it’s a fantastic bike too! There are So many great bikes these days. Some people buy 100k cars. I bought a new car once, and my wife wrecked it 6 months later. Oops. I get 4-6k vehicles and run them into the ground. Rebuild them or sell them off. I also get slightly used bikes and am prepared for some deferred maintenance. Retail is for suckers, And so is debt for anything but a house.
  • 5 2
 I own a switchblade and I’m a landscaper not a dentist lol
My theory is buy 2-3 old vehicles with low mileage, eat out a little less and buy the best bike you can afford brand new
It’s all about priorities
  • 3 1
 Good job Pivot ditching the Padloc system. Good job Pivot doing size specific layups. Now please start making size specific rear ends! This bike probably only rides well in small and medium and by well I mean balanced and with a neutral zone larger than 2cm either way.
  • 4 3
 I'm a bit confused as to them caring enough about keeping the feel consistent across sizes to offer different carbon layouts per size, but then offer the same chainstay lengths for all sizes. I of course assume it's to save costs, but an insert like RAAW uses wouldn't require different molds if consistent feel across the range was the priority.
  • 5 0
 These prices are getting out of hand
  • 4 1
 welp, looks like i'll be looking more and more at the direct to consumer bikes. 8999 for a "mid level" bike is just insanity.
  • 8 0
 I’m just curious how are you getting that a full fox factory build with xtr and carbon wheels is mid level?
  • 1 1
 @widebar777: that's literally what he said in the video. i just listened, that's where i got it... the high end build is full sram XX1 with AXS at over $12,000.
  • 9 8
 Am I the only one who found the format of the Field Test or other more detailed reviews much more helpful?

Pinkbike - Could you please keep things a bit more standardized? Signing off with a possibly-true-but-utterly-useless sentence like "It strikes a good balance of modern and capable without being over the top, traits that should allow it to work well in a wide range of terrain." isn't helpful at all.

Doesn't every bike do that nowadays?

Instead, please include a Pros & Cons list and your "How does it compare?" section, where you highlight the differences between the current bike and a class-leading bike, and help us understand who might prefer one over the other - honestly, that's one of the most helpful parts of any review you post!!

Those two sections should be in every review you do. Please.
  • 16 0
 This isn't a review, it's a First Ride.
  • 1 0
 @seanondemand: That's fair, and I recognized that it's not reasonable that every review by as thorough as the Field Test (with timed laps, huck to flat, etc for every bike), but as it is... where's the value in this review? If we can read a spec sheet and geo chart, what does a First Ride 'light overview' like this add to what was already available?
  • 1 0
 Pivots used to be the ugliest by a good margin (imo), somehow even behind niners, so ugly it seemed deliberate. I feel like it’s hard to find a really awkward looking bike lately. As frame design becomes universally more compact and revised, bikes are looking more alike; but I’ll gladly take that over gouging my eyes out.
  • 2 1
 As to pricing, is the frame price really going to be that much different than others’ carbon full suspension? Frame only will be available in August I’ve heard and it was reported to be around $3400 US. I think even the direct brands don’t get much below $2800. They are all in that range but sure maybe pivot will be a few hundred higher. The direct brands do seem better priced on the builds but of course they are. Yea Giant is a better deal too on full builds but the Reign 29 frame is 2950. Some of the lower priced brands and direct seem to give away the components to a greater degree but you can shop those yourself also
  • 1 0
 When is Pinkbike going to investigate bike/frame prices? All the US companies increased their prices when Chinese tariffs were enacted, but they are not dropping them now that the bike tariffs have been dropped. What a surprise, huh?
  • 3 1
 Welp I've got an "old" switchblade with an angleset and overforked it to 160. Pretty much the same bike. Safe to say I've had this bike for like two years now!
  • 5 0
 Nothing wrong with your bike, but I would not call it the same. For starters your STA is likely 2-3* slacker than this and your HTA still almost 1* steeper. Also size-for-size your reach is probably 20mm shorter.
  • 1 0
 @yupstate: Can you explain how the angleset and longer fork doesn't slacken the HTA while slackening the STA up to 3 degrees?
  • 1 0
 @yupstate: funny how no one mentions the actual STA. This half assed bike does not have a 75 degree actual STA. f*ck companies who don't show their actual STA y'all can burn in hell.
  • 1 0
 @yupstate: You're probably not wrong - my head tube angle is around 66.2. However I do think my bike (blue one) looks better than this Santa Cruz/Trek looking thing with the shock near the BB. All a matter of taste though.
  • 1 0
 @j-t-g: It does slacken both. I missed the part about the angleset actually in his original post. So I'd assume his HTA is very close to this new bike but his STA is way slacker and his reach is a lot shorter with all that front end slackening. Again, I'm sure his bike is awesome, but they aren't the same. Pivot didn't just slacken HTA and leave everything the same.
  • 1 1
 @yupstate: anglesets don't slacken STA's. they every slightly steepen them. I only wanted to hear your explanation because I knew you'd be wrong.
  • 1 0
 @Boosting: Wow, someone needs a hug! Smile

Pivot site says 75.5 in low and 76 in high BB setting. I'm sure no one is trying to say that's "actual". Obvs that would be much too steep for a Pivot. They're not that radical in their geo. Wink
  • 2 0
 @mybaben: I know they mention the virtual. But if you're gonna mention only one of them, please mention the actual angle. I don't give a crap what the angle is when my seat is halfway dropped, it matters when I'm pedalling seated at the highest position I can.
  • 1 0
 @j-t-g: I guess I learned something today. Thanks. I assumed anglesets changed HTA and STA together. Not sure on the details of his angleset though. I suppose you could put a 160 fork on but then use an angleset to get your HTA back close to stock if you used it to steepen HTA? Either way. I assume his STA is quite a bit slacker than 75.5 no matter which way he used the angleset.
  • 1 0
 @yupstate: Aw, now I wanna apologize because I've re-read my off the tongue comment and it's super rude. Oops.

Angle sets technically drop the BB and steepen the STA (assuming you're using it to slacken the bike), but really have such a small impact on these two areas that its unlikely anyone can actually feel that part of what they are doing. Basically, the angle of the fork gets slackened and then the rest of the front triangle rotates slightly to compensate for the fork rotating away from the BB.

Putting a longer fork and using an angleset to steepen a HTA is weird. I don't know of an example of anyone doing this. I think you'd just exaggerate the downsides of adding a longer fork (higher BB, slacker STA) without one of the perceived benefits.
  • 1 0
 @j-t-g: How sweet of you. :-)

So we've probably gone way too deep into the weeds on this, but numbers are fun. So I'd assume with a 160mm fork and angleset his HTA went from 67.25 down to about 66*, so spot on with this new bike. Then for the STA it likely went from 74.25 to just under 74* now, so quite a ways from 75.5 on the new one. The biggest difference is probably the reach. Over-forked would shorten the reach a bit and then I assume the angleset (now that I know what they do :-D ) probably would shorten his effective reach a bit also.
  • 2 0
 @Boosting: Do you realize Actual Angle can only be calculated by knowing your actual saddle height. So, companies could post the actual angle, but they would also need to post the exact saddle height they are measuring that angle at. Since the seat tube is placed forward of the BB for most every FS bike, it's nearly impossible to post the exact angle without also posting the infinite possible seat heights. If the industry decided that every medium needed to post the seat angle for a given saddle height the virtual seat angle would be more relevant to compare to others.
  • 1 0
 @yupstate: Yup, anglesets have a small impact on shortening reach as well. Pretty much everything you'd want to do to 'modernize' a bike ends up shortening the reach except removing headset spacers. So if someone did a dumb a few years ago and bought a bike that was too big for them, well then everything's coming up milhouse, slap a forward offset seat post on there and whatever else we're talking about and away they go.

It's all just guessing because over forking has a different impact on different sizes of bikes but no one (myself included) has seemed to care enough to actually measure what it does at each size range. . Maybe the difference is so small that the general rule that gets thrown around (half a degree slacker HTA) is right. -
  • 1 0
 @yupstate: Yep, you have to raise the front end up to slacken the STA, for example forking up to more travel or using an external bottom headset cup instead of a zero stack.
  • 8 8
 You can buy a 2020 Commencal Meta AM 29 XX with full AXS, carbon wheels, Rockshox Ultimate Suspension, Code RSC and still have $500 left before you can buy the lowest model Switchblade... and you won't have a Turner from from 2015. Plus they'll weigh close to the same..
  • 18 8
 You can also buy a YT and a boat anchor and it will be 5kg shorter of commencal...
  • 1 0
 It does look a lot like the RFX, but even with the more conservative geometry, it’s a lot more modern. The reach on a large RFX is supposedly 432mm. (Doesn’t feel that short). And this has boost, take it or leave it. Some pretty key differences.
  • 3 0
 The last switchblade is one of my favorite bikes I've ridden. This looks even better on paper. Excited to try one out.
  • 1 1
 "There is a more aggressive rising rate on the shock tune which helps provide suppleness in the first part of the stroke, more support mid-stroke, and then a ramp-up to resist bottoming out."

So Fox has position sensitive damping now? And they tossed it in into a DPX2 just for Pivot? I doubt it.

The damper in a DPX2 doesn't know what part of the stroke it's in. That tune would probably correspond "low damping (supple) for low shaft speeds, medium leaning to firm (supportive) on medium shaft speeds (smashing through roots at pace), and very firm on high shaft speeds (bottom out protection on big fast hits).

The air spring (both sides, positive and negative) is what contributes to position sensitivity in common current shocks.
  • 2 1
 www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsff3-AToek

Not hard to believe Fox designed something specifically for Pivot. They do it for Trek and Scott to name a few...
  • 1 0
 @lpat1717: Yes, they do custom tunes, and even custom air springs (Trek DRCV, Scott Gemini), but the damper is still a speed sensitive damper, not position sensitive as implied by the sentence I quoted.
  • 2 1
 The selling point is that for $8-12kyou can even run plus tires and water drains from a little hole?? You can run a mullet setup but it ruins your seat angle as always...

How is this better than any $4-6k bike? Jeeeeeze
  • 2 1
 Ahhh, Pivot. Super expensive bikes, questionable build kits, incredibly ugly. Well, at least this one looks good. We can start working on those other two issues in 5 years.
  • 4 1
 Listen you people, it's not just dentists. I'm a f'ing used couch salesman and I have a Yeti and a Pivot. Come at me brose.
  • 4 0
 Then there's coke stashed inside your couches!
your move. LOL! Wink
  • 3 0
 @mybaben: just assumed it was his casting couch.
  • 2 0
 One day I'll be able to tell my son I remember when bike cost $5k, then 10k.
He'll say you're old now buy me a 40k pivot cheapskate!!
  • 2 1
 He wrote "kinematics" lol

Sounds impressive. But then the explanation is that the air shock was built extra progressive and yet you can also run a coil. Hmmm. Not sure the fancy word is backed up with sciency knowledge.
  • 1 1
 66 Degree HA and still called "aggressive trail"? Marin and Transition have that geometry beat at half the price. Or if you want to spend your money on bikes that are for dentists just get a Yeti SB130 and you'll get better geometry, AXS, and switch infinity while still spending near $3000 less than what you could buy this Switchblade for. I could see Pivot coming out with another update of this by 2022
  • 1 1
 Please stop putting KINEMATICS so often because it’s seems to have got to the stage where the use of it is meaningless a bit like what happened with XTREME when everything became XTREME to make it sound new and cool.

Most people will be more interested in if the wheels, brake etc have been improved rather than a pivot has been moved 1mm so that x moves y degrees a round z

Plus the fact it’s my understand that kinematics as applied to bikes is the movement of suspension without external forces applied so you could have good kinematics that go to shit once you start bouncing down a hill and all sorts of external forces are put on it.

Anyone getting the hint I just hate the word and it’s over use?
  • 1 0
 It'll be okay man. Wink
Kinematics is all the above; how the susp responds under pedaling (important!), how it responds under braking, pedaling or not, and how it responds on its own bouncing down a hill. All important to many of us, so we can understand how it will behave. I'm sorry you hate the word.
  • 3 2
 I hate pointless new standards like most people. But I'm all for bikes with 157 Boost+. Let's just skip all that useless middle ground Boost and get back to the improved old DH spacing..
  • 5 2
 The bike the dentist's dentist would buy
  • 4 1
 29 lbs!!!? Nice try....I'll keep my 22 lb Trek Y bike thank you very much!
  • 6 0
 Haha haven’t seen one of those for awhile.

I have to say a bike with 160/140 that descends this well (according to vitalmtb reviewer) would be awesome for local enduro racing, especially at this weight.

I see a lot of people racing bikes 35lbs+ that don’t need to for their terrain/skill. This would be a good option that their ego could take.
  • 7 3
 Dope looking Turner
  • 1 0
 Came here to say this.
The masses demand water bottles in the front triangle, and every new bike is a 5-Spot or Remedy.

(not necessarily a bad thing)
  • 1 1
 Only 29" reviews so far ... so sad Smile would be curious how it compares to a Yeti SB 140. The reviews of the later where a bit more enthusiastic but a direct comparison would be nice.
  • 3 0
 nice looking bike and numbers are spot on!
  • 2 0
 I like the option of either sram or shimano. I with my last couple YT’s had that option.
  • 2 3
 J’aime beaucoup les vélos a montagne de Pivot. Il regarde tellement bon, il sont un companie reliable, et il ne pousse pas trop l’enveloppe du geometrie radical qui les rend plus amusant pour la majorité des personnes qui vont l'acheter. Sur ce vélo spécifiquement je mettras le suspension de Rockshox au lieu de Fox car j’aime plus comment il sent sur les pistes. Mais en disant ca je crois que le système du arriere suspension est très efficace. La seule chose que je n’aime pas avec ce vélo c’est le prix car ca coute proche a dix mille dollars.
  • 1 1
 It’s almost as good as my Santa Cruz Bronson cc olive ,but in 29 wheels ,my next bike it might be a pivot ,great looking bikes all of them and they all look like they are working pretty well when I see people riding them
  • 1 1
 A step backward I declare from my keyboard. Vertical mounted shocks are shithouse. under load near bottom out the front triange gets pushed down rather than the swingarm move up.
  • 1 1
 ...unless you do what Merida does and mout the shock floating in between the rocker and an extension of the chainstays. That way the forces are completely isolated to the rear linkage.
  • 1 2
 I've just got to say that unless you're really rich, it seems pretty dumb to buy any brand new (non D2C) bike. Why would anyone buy this Pivot when you can get essentially the same thing from YT for half price? It just does not make any sense to me. Sure there are some people who are so rich that it just doesn't matter and want the coolest shit to be cool. its the same reason why people buy a brand new BMW M3, when you could get a lightly used one for half price a few years later. I think a lot of people who will buy this bike are getting a pro form on it, and then people will buy it second hand from PB in 2021. I just don't understand buying brand new bikes from bike shops anymore - there is literally no benefit.
  • 1 2
 Looks like a Rip 9. The wacky shock tune is probably because of how linear that axle path and leverage ratio through the stroke is, probably can barely use the travel unless you run really low pressure. Not sure how a coil would work here. I do like that drain tube though!
  • 1 0
 Haha @danielsapp, I'm guilty of losing parts/flipchips on one of the steep exposed rocks in Dupont Forest. Literally watched the bolt roll off the ledge in horror. Doh!
  • 1 0
 The rider in the photos has a disconcerting amount of handlebar sticking out from the outer edge of his hands. Or is that just me?
  • 3 2
 hmm is it a medium or a large bike? Since the bike has a sticker with a letter L on it Big Grin
  • 6 2
 Daniel tested a size medium, and the detail photos are from the launch of a size large.
  • 9 11
 Pivot, I would love this bike, but I have no need for the fat bike hub, rims, and tires in the 27.5 size. Make it a 148mm hub and 30mm rims and I'm in. What's with the fatbikes in your lineup? I even had to downsize the wheels on my Mach 5.5 because I don't need the weight on the climbs and don't need the balloons on the descent, and I ride the wildest stuff around.
  • 16 0
 157 is a DH hub, you're thinking of 177 or 197
  • 6 0
 @5afety3rd: That doesn't fit his clever username's narrative...
  • 2 4
 The issue isn't with 157, the issue is that some companies are allowing a 157hub/83mm to run 275x4" tires. Yes this one is limited to 275x2.8? Weak. If I'm going to run a wider hub standard that makes me get all new wheels, I want to run some serious tires, not what bikes with 142 hubs are running.
  • 4 2
 @PHeller: No, the issue is superboost. This is the third bike from Pivot I'd have been interested in putting cash into if it didn't have 157mm spacing.
  • 3 2
 I’m over here like screw boost, 157 is all we needed in the first place. DH bike and trail bike share wheels that way. Not to mentions being 6’4 and 200lbs wheels finally are stiff enough in corners. Knolly is doing the standard best though IMO
  • 1 2
 @5afety3rd: I've got near 350lb dudes on boost wheels without issue. You don't need super boost to build a stiff wheel my man.
  • 2 1
 @sherbet: been building wheels professionally for almost 20 years, you cannot beat the physics of triangulation and even spoke tension. Also, no one 350 is going to ride the wheels in the same way i am, i used to be pushing 300 myself, and i'm far more abusive on wheels now from a lateral stiffness standpoint (i love getting sideways early into corners and gapping into them and speeds i never imagined 100lbs ago)
  • 2 4
 Great looking bike and I love a bike with DW links, as it works so well, but an XL that’s sub 510mm reach and a seat tube angle that slack isn’t going to work for tall people. Please bike designers catch up to what is good geometry for tall people. It’s been around for a few years now! I’m 6’3” and the XL is too small for me!
  • 5 0
 It's not always about the reach, just look at the ETT because that still matters when pedaling seated. I'm the same height as you and ride a Ripley 4 XL (which has a 500 mm reach). With the Ripley I have to slam the seat all the way back to get good ETT measurement since I don't like to sit on top of the bottom bracket. :-)

Obviously ultra steep seat angle and huge reach is quite good when climbing and descending but if you ride a lot in flat trails it's not so great. I've tried a friends Pole Stamina 180 and the riding position on the bike feels really awkward.
  • 1 0
 @jaakkoyk: as the owner of an evolink which has a slightly slacker STA than the stamina, I will fully admit that it takes about a week and a bit of riding (so about 5-8 rides) to get completely used to such a steep STA, after that it feels normal. For reference I went from a Canyon with 73.X STA to my current 78 effective STA. I will say that once you are used to it, its so much better for climbing and I do not have any issues on flat or undulating terrain.
  • 2 0
 @Tobsa: Well you can get used to anything if you do it long enough. ;-)

The point I was trying to make is that based on height and body proportions, the ETT still matters and you should not only look at the reach. Steepish seat angle is generally a good thing in my opinion, but the main goal is to find a correct spot for the saddle in relation to the rear hub and bottom bracket that suits you. And that is where the ETT comes along.

As for myself I can say with 15 years of riding experience that for me it's really hard with seat angles over 76.
  • 2 0
 @jaakkoyk: oh totally, Iam 194cm tall so I have learned to always look at ETT length, using reach as just one of many indicators
  • 4 1
 Hi there Banshee KS3!
  • 2 0
 Excited for the full review
  • 2 0
 Loving Pivots new tube shapes. Time to save up some money.
  • 1 0
 Angular lines a bit similar to a 2014 BMC Trailfox 29
  • 2 0
 Why buy a Pivot when you can buy a Ducati for the same price.
  • 1 0
 IMO a beautiful looking bike that would make a lot of sense for a lot of riders. Too bad about the insane pricing...
  • 2 0
 and queue the "ItS ToO ExPeNSiVE" comments...
  • 13 12
 Looks much better than a ripmo
  • 15 4
 Doesn't look 3000$ better.
  • 7 5
 Agreed. Once the leverage curve comes out you will know this will ride better than a Ripmo. If it’s progressive as they say than that’s a win.
Compare a Ripmo with a Firebird.
Ripmo is linear.
Firebird very progressive.
They feel very different to ride.
The Firebird feels alive and full of pop. Its a far more fun bike to ride in almost all types of terrain. Its a hell of a lot stiffer laterally too.
  • 1 2
 That was directed at @shaheeb
  • 8 2
 @professed: but not as good as my 3k ripmo af
  • 9 12
 Pivot: for mid level executives who think the geometry on a last generation Santa Cruz Hightower is too extreme for the tight and twisty (ie slow) trails they ride.

They are going all out on the build since it’s their last “pedal bike” before they age in to ebike.
  • 1 0
 Other than wheelsize, whats the difference between this and the 5.5?
  • 2 0
 Reach is a bit longer, HTA a bit slacker, STA a bit steeper, rear axle a bit wider :-)
  • 1 0
 All of it.
  • 1 0
 Looks like Chris has learned a few things from Dave.
  • 1 0
 I love the bike, don’t love the price
  • 1 0
 Sold, when’s the frameset come out!
  • 2 1
 Does not look like a turner.
  • 1 0
 I heard Pivot released the new switchblade today.
  • 1 1
 The bike Turner should have made last year but in aluminum and with a sta 2 degrees steeper.
  • 1 0
 Alum NX please & I am in
  • 1 0
 Do Daniel Sapp's LIPS MOVE when he talks?
  • 3 0
 Nah, its from all of the chewing tobacco and slow talk here in the South.
  • 1 0
 What a bunch of fucking whinges MTB riders are becoming fuck me!
  • 1 0
 No more Padloc grips?
  • 1 1
 The top build is $16’600 Canadian. Where the anti-dentites at?
  • 2 2
 Every single f*&^kn bike looks the same :/
  • 1 1
 It's ike the ripmo, but 3lbs heavier "superboost".
  • 2 2
 Underwhelmed!
  • 2 3
 Pivot $ 9K bike why? I can get a better bike at YT for $ 4.5k. DONE!
  • 1 2
 Looks like a Specchhh..... Santa Cruz
  • 1 4
 " they'll want to install a taller lower headset cup" makes perfect sense, you mean increase the offset
  • 6 2
 Where the hell are you getting increasing offset from increasing lower headset cup height? Those 2 things are nowhere close to similar in the slightest.
  • 1 5
flag sewer-rat (Feb 4, 2020 at 4:22) (Below Threshold)
 @TheSlayer99: I didn't mean fork offset I meant from a fixed point as in vertical offset
  • 8 11
 Like a Ripmo, but uglier?
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