Updated: Tahnee Seagrave to Undergo Shoulder Surgery

 @usedbikestuff: @krazieghost ...and beat Rachel.

 @airtym: I just wish that there were thirty highly competitive women in the field and it was not a big deal to have one of a few get hurt/sick/mechanical etc. Rachel had a crap year a few years ago because she had the flu and missed some races. If i were them, i'd want my season title to mean that i was the best, not just that i got lucky.

 @usedbikestuff: Agree with you. Tahnee has been getting better and better and is now a solid threat to Rachel. Rachel is hands down the best in the women's field. Tahnee, and to a smaller extent Tracey and a few others are getting faster. That said, the top 3-5 of women's is a large gap to the rest of the field. Vali will be on point once she gets to elite if she stays consistent. However, depth is something the women's field is sorely lacking compared to the men's (likely the best its ever been).

 @bman33: My dream is that the minutes spent covering the men's race is the same as the minutes spent covering the women's. I'd love to spend the entire day watching DH racing.

 @usedbikestuff: I think we can get there, IF, and that is a big 'IF', is getting the women's field much deeper and more competitive. The top few women are on point and fast now. However, after a few places, it's pretty unexciting to watch. Hopefully that will change.

I will await my inevitable downvotes and berating now.

 @bman33: Yea, people clearly took my first comment the wrong way. Sometimes you eat the bar, sometimes the bar eats you.

 some thoughts every time we have to drag rachel into this:

* Womens field is gaining depth and I think the junior field currently is proof of this. Let's not ignore in the elite womens that Tracey Hannah and Tahnee had both been getting significantly stronger and faster on their bikes.

* It's kind of a shitty thing to do to Rachel to downplay her feats by saying the field lacks competition. In the world of womens, she has veteran experience behind the bars, is an incredible athlete and showed a bounce back from a pretty savage shoulder surgery that she still is dealing with the recovery for. This is incredible, but nobody would ever talk about this because "it is boring to see rachel on top". I feel bad for her, honestly. It seems like much of Pinkbike doesn't want to let her have a win without pulling out something about the field being too thin in womens racing. Very rarely do we agree in whole that it is because she is an incredible athlete and extremely impressive on two wheels.

* Racing is much about staying on top and not getting injured throughout a season. If folks here start downplaying Rachels future wins because Tahnees now out of the contention for a while, that's a dick move. We all love to speculate, but keeping it together the entirety of a season is part of your racing season. This is non debatable.

With that, I hope that Redbull offers Tahnee lots of the best resources to get back on her bike again post surgery. Injuries are extremely difficult and come with a lot of mental setbacks on top of the physical limitations. Rachel was there too and she had a pretty lackluster season following it. All in all, just be mindful of the words you toss around about womens DH. It's insulting to a lot of the other riders who do work their asses off and train year round when you say "the competitions just not good enough / too boring / etc". There's plenty of other womens racers that put themselves on the line for world cup DH race days but many want them all to be in Rachels league or they dont exist. That's unfair to them and downplays that Rachel just might be a freak of nature.

 @bman33: Id also like to see more coverage on the mens racing. The women gets more coverage proportionately.

 @anchoricex: If everyone performs at 100%, no one can touch Rachel.

At least this injury news makes picking a fantasy team easier!

 kind of shitty

 not like Rachel is cheating or has an unfair advantage.

 @usedbikestuff: Total respect for Rachel. I would love to see thirty highly competitive women, I would also like to see that for the men too. The mens field happens to have more marketing money and there are 30-40 guys who are good but not highly competitive. Maybe even more. The mens field might have 10-15 guys that are in the mix. But let's be honest here, if the top twenty all have a their own perfect run. Which 2 or 3 guys are winning? I know Troy doesn't win but is on the podium. Minnaar is up there with Gwin and a French guy or two. I'm talking best day here. If so, 30 people don't have a chance to win. 3 maybe 5 could win. With the women field which is smaller, on their best day of racing, the same 1 or 3 will win. I'm going back to my bourbon now.

 @airtym: they race to see who is the fastest on a given weekend.

 @anchoricex: Spot on, couldn't have said it better. Looked at Rach's Instagram yesterday and among the congrats comments on her win was some asshat saying something like only because your nearest competitor crashed. As you say, it's a dick move.

It's always the same with armchair critics, whenever someone's on top of their game "Oh it's so boring now with *insert athlete* winning all the time" - Schumacher, Graf, Federer, Hamilton, Bolt etc.

Let's not forget that last year Rach smashed the World Champs by 10 seconds, That's not only just, that's not a narrow win, that's not because her closest competitors were injured, that's a full on beasting of the field and that's what makes her a cut above the rest.

Just to add, (as that's what the feature is actually about) I feel desperately sad for Tahnee, I found out just as we arrived in Fort William Friday night and was gutted for her. She will bounce back fitter and stronger though, more hungry for the win and i've no doubt she will dominate at some point in the future.

 @w0dge: I don't know about that. There is a stiff competition coming from below. When Rach retires one would expect Tahnee to inherit that top spot, if it wasn't for Holl. Tahnee is quite small, and in a physical sport that is a big disadvantage.

 i would also like to know this

 They give them money and the athlete goes and buys it, I'm assuming. But she's from England, so unlike America, stuffs covered by the National Health Service.

 No silly American most countries provide health insurance.

 Athletes typically aren’t employed, but rather considered self employed independent contractors. So they would buy insurance themselves. This also wouldn’t qualify as a workers comp injury for the same reason.

 I think it depends on the sponsor. I would imagine each athlete has their own contracts with sponsors that provide various levels of benefits and pay. Being a Redbull Athlete (which is sort of considered the gold standard of action sports sponsorship), I would imagine Tahnee will be taken care of but who knows for sure.

 Could be wrong, but I think red bull athletes have access to redbull treatment and doctors. If you watch "on track" with Curtis Keene on redbull.tv you get a look at that when he messes up his collar bone.

 @sino428: has a statement that started with 'i would imagine' ever answered a question accurately? I would imagine...no.

 @Patsplit: Doubt this will be being done on the NHS! They don't tend to turn non life threatening stuff around in less than a year, let alone a week. Happy to be corrected but, I'd guess private health care; a lot of UK racers have it. Don't get me wrong, the NHS is a wonderful thing but treatment can take a very long time.

 @Muckal: I would imagine if you had actually read what Tahnee wrote you might have a clue about how Redbull takes care of its athletes. Considering she thanked RedbullUK for taking care of her, its a good bet that she has access to doctors and rehab through her sponsorship.

 @ItsWilkoed: In Canada (same issue around wait times), pro or elite level athletes can sometimes jump the queue as it's in the national interest to get them back to earning money/performing circus tricks for our entertainment...

 Good comment @Muckal:

 @ItsWilkoed: To get it done that quick it would typically be private, they fill a niche for athletes who need to get fixed quick. That said, the NHS would look at it differently as she needs her shoulder working to earn a living, but its probably private.

Dont get me wrong, the NHS is epic, but I think its better placed focusing with the high end stuff (not to mean any disrespect!). I have broke my arm / wrist 3 times and had it fixed for free on the NHS, just not as promptly as Tahnee prolly needs repairing!

 A better question would be: do sponsors provide access to decent, qualified surgeons who don't charge a stupendous amount over the government-decided scheduled fee for shoulder surgery? Or if not, do they foot the bill for the gap? I paid for private health insurance for about 15 years (probably totalling $12K in premiums) before I ever needed to go to hospital to have surgery. Due to a joint abnormality, and not wanting to end up with a stuffed shoulder the rest of my life, I went with one of the best surgeons in town. He charged $3K over the scheduled fee. Because he can, I guess. And well ... the guy has to fund his collection of Porsche racing cars somehow.

 While other countries have government sponsored health programs (also known as more taxes cause nothing is free except opinions), individuals in those countries also have the ability to purchase premium insurance. Athletes can purchase additonal riders for their occupation because most every single private health insurance EXCLUDES things like skydiving & certain other action sports related injuries.
The thing I can't speak to in England, just the US, is whether or not private health insurance will decline a claim for a work related accident, which this is. In the US, private health carriers will step back if it's work related if there is a Workers Compensation policy in place with the employer, which would have to pay first before the private health insurance pays.
For the best care, you have to seek out a very specific travel insurance for athletes that handles most bells & whistles the above won't.

 @bizutch: keep in mind that people in these countries (like Aus) all have access to the same treatment in the public system, regardless of how much tax they payed - so people on very low or no income still have access, which stops, or at least limits them "falling through the cracks".

 @ItsWilkoed: Jonny Wilkinson has never used the NHS!

 @powderturns: I like this pragmatic approach

 I think Red Bull does a lot to help their injured athletes. I recall they even have a dedicated clinic and doctors.

 @bizutch: In the USA or at least in Florida if you're self employed or a company with less then 3 employees you can waive your right to workmans comp, you just need to be on the board of directors to waive it. Been there, done that...that's why construction companies pay sub-contractors to do the work and sub-contractors hire self employed people. Basically most guys/gals on the jobsite are not protected from injury unless they have there own insurance, which most do not. Definitely worth finding companies that give a damn about there employees.

 @MikeGruhler: I know. It's what I sell.

People just have to go into an occupation with the information on how much covering their own injuries costs if they want to be self employed. But most don't. High risk occupations have devastating injury risk & there is just no way to insure for that risk whether you're self employed or an employer or a corporation. There isn't enough magic in the realm to save all lives & heal all wounds if you take risk.

 @vinay: they have one in SoCal, but do they have them globally where an international athlete & their doctors would have that same access?

 @martin737: not sure why you got downvoted. There is some truth to it. Bottom line is that healing someone's injuries or illness is either charity care or paid care & as I made a statement down below...there is no magic to heal all wounds. We will fall down, we can get hurt & there we are not entitled to return to our former self until such magic could happen

 @bizutch: I think they treat all Red Bull supported athletes over there. At least they took care of Dan Atherton (broken neck) and Rachel Atherton (shoulder injuries) when they needed it. This is one reason that out of all these energy drinks, I think Red Bull contributes most to the sports and actually seems to care about their athletes. Monster and Rockstar sure do spend money on cool athletes too, but I don't recall them contributing the kind of support to athletes and events the way Red Bull does.

That said, I don't know whether they actually have more facilities. Dan Atherton was treated in the US as far as I can remember and of course Rachel was already in the US when she headbutted that pick-up truck on a road ride.

 @vinay: The Athertons train on the US West Coast in the off season so that worked for them. Time will answer all so we wait and see.

 @vinay: Dan was not a "Red Bull athlete" at that time either, as far as I know. Maybe they have different levels of sponsorship. He didn't have the helmet. Gee and Rachel had them, but Dan didn't.

 Based on her description, sounds like they're doing repairs to the ligaments. I've had a grade III as well, but didn't have ligament damage.

 I had a grade 3+, as was described by the doc. I was back riding in eight days. I basically did nothing but a couple few days of painkillers. My hip hurts as I type from that crash, which was over a year and a half ago, but the shoulder is great. Not saying it's the same as Tahnee though, and I do have a nice bump to show for it.

 i had a AC dislocation and didn’t require surgery, 9 months later still no issues

 @Mntneer: Any grade of AC separation involves ligament damage by definition. Grade 3 means a complete tear of the AC and CA ligaments.

I've also had a grade 3 tear and opted against surgery. A year and a half later and a have only slight side effects that only crop up during heavy pressing exercises; biking is totally 100%.

There's a lot of debate lately among surgeons and therapists as to what is the best course of action for Grade 3 sprains. Grade 1&2 are always non-surgical and 4-6 are the opposite. For grade 3, outlooks for the operative and non-operative sides are roughly the same, so many opt to no undergo surgery.

 Same for me grade 3+ I was on the wind trainer two days later road riding in three-plus weeks and back to full mtb in 5-6 weeks. No surgery. Full range of motion and no pain.

I feel like doctors want to cut into you right away, like it's a point of pride for them.

The worst part of my injury was the seven miles I had to ride out of the woods that day with only one arm.

 I had a grade 3+ and my ortho said no to surgery, apparently he thought a subsequent injury to the shoulder with hardware would be worse than without. It was about a 7-8 week recovery to what I perceived to be full strength, although I didn't push it. I'm interested to see what surgical procedure they're repairing hers with.

 I did the same (grade 3 and no surgery) and rode about 8 weeks later. The orthopedic surgeon consult is one I won't forget: "I'm an othorpedic surgeon - I LOOOOOVE cutting people open, and I get paid to do it! But I can't recommend surgery for you..." I appreciated his candor and took his advice. It only bugs me now carrying a ski pack in winter.

 I also had a grade 3 AC tear last year but followed a platelet rich plasma (PRP) therapy which had outstanding results and my rehab lasted about 45 days. Anyone reading consider this conservative therapy, the rehab from surgery is a pain in the ass and lasts about 2-3 months until you're back in shape, been there done that.

 @powderturns - My doc said the exact same thing! I too had a grade 3 (all the ligaments completely torn, the same thing @jconnormcl said) and my doc (who also was the ortho for the local pro hockey team) said it was a common sports injury and recommended no surgery. I was back riding MTB within 3-4 weeks with no loss of strength or range of motion. I did do a fair bit of physical therapy. One thing that no one has mentioned re: lasting effects is that I ended up with a rather unsightly bump on my shoulder where the outside end of the collar bone is poking up like a spring because there are no ligaments holding it down. I'm sure every case is different but my doc said the main reason you would get this surgery is cosmetic, or if you were one of the rarer cases where there were range of motion or other problems. Thing is, you wouldn't know that until later so he was pretty adamant with me that the first thing to do with this injury is nothing.

 Has anyone NOT had a grade 3 separation?
We'll need to see Tahnee's scans please. It's important for this discussion.
Btw, this is her version of Rachel eating the truck. Phoenix time.

 I also did a grade 3 separation, but in 2004, landed hard in the bottom of the half pipe....... Was advised not to undergo surgery for alot of the same reason mentioned. Glad i took the advise, i was riding steady on the road 3 weeks later, snowboarding after 4. Its not caused me a problem since, never feel it on or off the bike.

 @BenPea: I had surgery for a Bony Bankart Lesion and a Hills Sachs deformation 8 weeks ago.....I'm allowed to stop using a sling this week and will be able to start light physio.A good few months before I can get on a bike again.Joy

 @watchmen: f*ck that, buddy. I smashed a couple of ribs 10 days ago. Does that help?

 It's a tough call. I had mine repaired (it was grade 5 though) and I'm at 100% and am glad I did. I have friends who didn't have their grade 3's repaired and wish they did - they've got lingering instability if they aren't regularly doing exercises to keep their shoulder muscles in top shape. I have other friends who didn't get a grade 3 repaired and are happy they didn't.

So it's really not black and white.

 The PA in the office I went to basically said it's a pain management issue. Not gonna injure it by riding(assuming no crash). The injury was what it was going to be when it happened.

Tahnee may just want it fixed for cosmetics?

 @gumbytex: It's true. I stay on a lifting program year round specifically because of my shoulder. If I don't lift for 4-6 weeks it starts to droop a bit and feel loose when I sleep on it. It's definitely a life long injury if it's not repaired.

 @AllMountin: just updated it answering your question. There’s a lot more to it than cosmetics.

 @AllMountin: I think I’d have chosen a different sport if I was all about cosmetics...

 @BenPea: No, but punching yourself in the chest until you pass out and pee yourself would make me feel slightly better though.

 @watchmen: meh

 @tahneeseagrave:
All the best T.seagrave,
Going to miss your action alot....
Im keeping you on fantasy tho hah

 I just heard fucked up stories about AC 3 with operations. I actually read a forum fred about only this type of accident and the guys who did opt out for the OP are really fucked up now. Most who yout let it be are okay. I had the same AC 3 and did also nothing else then just have sex and that's it, I can do anything I did before. Only in the mirror I can spot the difference but that's It. Because I teared ligaments on the otherside by another crash I cant spot no difference anymore so what ... I visit 4 docs before I decided to let it just heal the conventional way. Most of them advised me not to do it but if I wanted they would do it. Still not every crash is the same...

 @BenPea: Yeah, the comments make it sound like it's a blown u-joint on a truck. "Just popped a new one in the yoke & off we went". I've had a grade 3 separated shoulder and did a progressive PT regimen that got me back, but my doc also told me I could make it worse and have to have a nasty operation if I blew it again.

Mine happened at the same time as Steve Peats and his was similar to mine. But I've also have a dozen bros with variations of it that wound up in surgery after they'd rip it apart or the shoulder would buckle without warning or they'd suddenly get a dislocation or they had a dislocation at the same time or....etc.

The shoulder joint has more crazy outcomes than any other part of the body. It's silly to try to pretend her shoulder did anything similar to any other perons.

 @gumbytex: Same here I also did a grade 5, chose to get it fixed. This injury, surgury and rehab is painful and I wish it upon no one. Hope she makes a good recovery and has good pain management.

 @AllMountin: wait til you're 55 years old......you'll yearn for your pain free days

 Same here, grade 3 and the doctor said 1-2 heals up and 4-6 needs surgery. Grade 3 surgery is optional, he recommended not. Just said to do some physio to stabilise the shoulder and avoid getting arthritis in 20 years time.

 @Mntneer: is an elective surgery. It’s what I do for work, see these all the time. The AC joint has nothing to do with her her shoulder in place. Some AC injuries end up being more posterior and pain is pretty bad. There is zero ligament repair with an acute AC injury. Just pulling the clavicle and acromion back down, then letting the torn ligaments scar back in.

 @tahneeseagrave: these surgeries have great outcomes, and are straight forward. You’ll come back strong as ever. Best wishes healing up! Stoked to see you back!

 @Serpentras: its a hard decision, i also know a couple of guys who did not habe surgery and have a lot of problems now. I had a grade 5 ( rockwood scale), (3+ tossi ) tear with basically everything ripped off, even some muscle. I got surgery and they added a titanium plate to hold the shoulder in place.after the crash it sunk 4-5 cm and was completely loose. I have no idea how someone can be back on a bike with this in 3-4 weeks, like other commentators wrote. Having said that, not all ac tears require surgery and overall conventional therapy and surgery have similar successrates(about 80 %). I have had no problems with my shoulder until i crashed on it again last year , the grade 1 tear is still far from good. Overall asking a lot of docs is a good approach, also i still think surgery is needed if everything is ripped of ( rockwood 5-6)

 @optimumnotmaximum: the crash thing after surgery was the most shocking part I read about. Look up the mtb-news, AC tossi fred, really f*cked up.

I also don't know how you can be so fast back on the bike, I did nothing on the bike for a month. I mean normal cycling was okay but I can do that with my turbo so meh ....

 That’s a repair from 15 years ago. Same results but having to go back in is so unnecessary now for AC surgeries. Most doctors now use two buttons and a suture to pull it down. Pretty much a minimally invasive surgery and never have to go back in for RIFD. That’s if it’s acute, if you wait months to repair it, it’s a different story but still not nail or anything. Anyone considering this surgery should read up and avoid that technique. It’s not necessary anymore. We do hundreds of these a year, and outcomes are great.

 This is my experience. I did a 3 in Jan, week PT at first and worked on it daily. Back on the bike riding with some degree of confidense now but still feels loose and sore after a long ride. At least I can sleep through the night now although not lying on the side of the injury. Stangely casting a fishing rod is what causes me the most agrevation to it...

 @halr75: yea you just brought back the memories of waking myself up in immense pain from rolling over in my sleep. That was aweful for a while.

Ah man. Heal up my Hero. T for the win in 2020 for sure.

 That's some really shitty insurance!

 Then celebrate with a curry down the Samrat with Dev. P.p.s Piss off Karl

 @aps62: awesome mate knee someone on PB would be a fan

 @chainspotting: haha, it’s Wednesday tomorrow which means next episode - enjoy it!!

 I only remember AIM.

 Damn, fine, we'll get off your lawn.

 @underhawk: Oh, we all remember when the crush signed on AIM and you heard the door open sound. I'm just gLaD tHaT aLtErNaTiNg CaPs went away.

 @usedbikestuff: My crush always warned me. God I miss that.