Pinkbike Poll: Do You Use Tire Inserts?

Jun 15, 2018 at 10:23
by Daniel Sapp  
No words for Aaron Gwin.

Flat tires. They happen to everyone, despite tire technologies progressing over the years, and there are ways to help prevent them and keep them at bay in many situations. Tubeless tire set-ups with your choice of sealant the most common set-up and preventative measure but in the last couple of years, tire liners such as CushCore, Flat Tire Defender, and Huck Norris, among others have become increasingly popular in adding an extra level of protection against flats.

There are a number of systems available now, each claiming their own benefits over the other, but they're similar conceptually. The foam liners further protect the wheel and tire from damaging impacts. They also allow the rider to run a lower air pressure without as great of a chance of rolling the tire off the rim and also giving some extra cushion against rim and tire damaging impacts that may occur. There are a number of other benefits people will claim ranging from increased vibration damping properties to being able to ride out a flat, but, that's the main idea.

Huck Norris Review
The Huck Norris set up is one of the lightest and is more minimal than some others.



cush core insert
Cush Core's system is similar to Flat Tire Defender's, using a more-dense chunk of foam.

Whether these foam liners actually provide that much more protection and make a difference that's worth the frustration of installation and the associated weight penalty is heavily debated among riders—not to mention their price. I'd wager that there's a pretty mixed spread of people who do and don't use them. It does, however, seem that foam liners have progressed beyond the point of being considered a gimmick and there are some real benefits they can offer in a number of situations.

What are your thoughts on tire inserts? Do you use them? Want to? Have no desire to? Tried them and hate them? Couldn't even get them set up? Let's hear it.

Do you use tire inserts?




332 Comments

  • + 113
 Stoneage solution to a problem that shouldn't exist with bikes that are otherwise quite advanced. Testing aside, I can't bring myself to stick foam silly inserts into $100+ tires that are sometimes on multi-thousand-dollar wheelsets. Also, it sure seems like we're seeing more exploding rear wheels since these inserts have caught on - I'd bet my last toonie that the two are connected.

Not saying I have a better solution (besides, you know, running proper tires for your EWS race), but I am saying that inserts sure seem silly to me... even if they do work.
  • + 39
 Schwalbe Super Gravity tubeless, not one flat in the last 6 years of racing Smile
But I am pretty lightweight..
  • + 27
 More exploding wheels because folk are running lower pressures with inserts or because there's something else going on?

I feel rock/rim clashes way too often at the the pressures I'd like to run so have to compromise and run more. An insert seems like a reasonable solution to the constant fight between pressure, grip and protection.
  • + 42
 Ive pretty much eliminated rim dents using Huck Norris. Its almost as if theres a centimeter of foam between the rock and my multi-thousand dollar wheelset... Only flats ive had is from slicing the sidewall of my tires. I guess I dont like to see my wheelsets trashed after a weekend of racing...
  • + 8
 @kingtut87: There were quite a few exploding wheels that had ProCore in them when it was first being used by World Cup racers. I don't think it's strictly down to lower pressures, but rather how the system as a whole deals with impacts; that 80psi insert has to change how the tire, which is a spring, performs. I've heard that there's a revised ProCore system being used now that has a lower pressure insert for this reason.
  • + 9
 Are that many people running tire inserts? What are your thoughts on it relating to wider rims and wider profile tires? Or rather wider rims with old profile tires? I don't know how many tires companies have made the transition to tires like the Maxxis WT versions.

With a proper tubeless rim and tubeless tire, my failures where more cut sidewalls(looking at you scwhalbe) than actual flats. I only run tubeless now at 33-35PSI and maxxis tires and can say I haven't had a flat in over 1.5 years.
  • + 8
 @mikelevy: Aye, I could imagine ProCore and it's high pressure inner tube system potentially causing extra stresses on the wheel. Pretty different from HuckNorris or Cush Core.

I'd need to try running Cush Core before commenting on if adding damping to the tire is good for ride quality or not.
  • + 4
 @TightAF: I have made a dent in the rim with huck norris in. So I did with Procore. There is nothing that can protect you from your own stupidity.

@mikelevy - you are 100% correct, inserts and more flats -
those are connected, that is because companies making inserts say that you can run lower pressures or thinner tyres which is BS.

Having said that I am totally sold on Procore. Single ply + procore for downcountry and Double down + procore for Enduro. All things park, just get a fkng DH tyre...
  • + 8
 Tried Huck Norris, pool noodles, and a few other things, fun initially but don't work well after a couple months when they turn to swiss cheese.
Running procore now and while you can run lower pressures without issues, the coolest part for me is being able to run 25 psi in my back tire without burping. It really locks the bead on with 60psi of force. Tokens for your tires. On an xc bike that likes to go uphill fast better off with fast skinny super light tires and 40+ psi with no inserts.
  • + 11
 Interesting observation. At $75 a wheel for cushcore it’s almost as easy to replace the rim....


Still want to try cuschcore, simply because my ocd hates dents in rims. That and spiderweb looking creases in rims scare me on my dh bike. They destroy the necessary gear confidence for me.
  • + 4
 @mikelevy: pro core never seemed to work for anything other than salvaging a few finishing points anyways. And 80 psi on a mtb wheel, ouch. That’s like turning your wheel into the engineering equivalent of a loaded crossbow. Never thought of it that way.
  • + 3
 @loganm2977: Yup, exactly. And then it goes boom for some riders.
  • + 3
 @mikelevy: you dont have to put 80 psi in it.
  • + 9
 MX racers use an insert or tyre mousse; no? For competitive racing I see no reason NOT to run an insert or mousse. For everyday, recreational riding I'll pass on it.

Cyclists obsession with weight is likely the reason for a majority of tyre issues.
  • + 9
 I ran the FTD in my rear all summer long riding WBP and the wheel survived 60 days in the park. The previous year no insert - blew up 2 rear wheels. This year gonna run it front and back. They are a pain in the ass but I have found they will make your wheels hold up better. and on DH bikes who cares about the weight.
  • + 3
 @loganm2977: sure, unless you dent rims a lot cush paused itself off on the first rim saved. Money in the bank every rim after. One set of cush could save you from year(s) of rim replacements.

If you believe they work Razz

Converting to carbon was enough for me. I used to be hard on aluminum rims.
  • + 0
 @Kitejumping: but you still need to run according sidewalls and pressures. Procore is the ultimate insurance but won’t protect you from stupidity. I punctured Rock Razor Snak Skin eith procore inside doing mild DH with pressure that would put me in trouble on my down country trails. I won’t try that again.
  • + 1
 @loganm2977: 80psi in a low volume tyre? What’s the problem? Pfff slopestylers and dirt jumpers do that with 2.2 Ikons slamming them into copings, casing landings. Mike Levy doesn’t do that with Ikons... I run 60psi in my procore, works well enough.

It’s just carbon rimmed folks who can’t use procore.
  • + 7
 50mm backing rod. Basically closed cell foam, 2m long, fits perfectly in a 26" tyre.

£2.50.
  • + 3
 @Kitejumping: No, of course not.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I'm running 55psi in procore on carbon rims, usually go through 2 or 3 rims a season, will be interesting to see how long procore let's me go before blowing up another carbon rim.
  • + 24
 @mikelevy: You may be onto something.

By using some engineering equations (I'll spare everyone by not going into in detail), I was able to get a graph that relates tire pressure on impact to initial air volume. As the initial air volume of the tire is decreased (such as with a foam insert), the tire pressure on impact increases drastically. Essentially, this means that with a tire insert, the tire pressure will be higher on impact than what you would see without an insert. A tire without an insert doesn't have a large pressure spike for normal impacts but tires with an insert can, depending on geometry and other factors. Overall, this could be a reason for some of the failures we have been seeing recently as the tire pressure could be too high on impacts for the system to handle.

There are several ways I can think of to combat this effect. First, you could start at a lower tire pressure so the pressure on impact isn't too high. Second, you can use a lower profile insert so that the initial air volume isn't reduced as much from a standard tire. I suspect that less failures have been seen with the Huck Norris, as many have mentioned below, because it is relatively low profile and is not changing the tire system as drastically as CushCore, for example. Finally, you could have an insert that can deform without a rock actually striking it, such as ProCore with a lower pressure insert...

Hopefully my ramblings make sense to you. I think I'm just gonna stick with tubeless tires for now.
  • + 5
 @Airfreak: 33-35 psi?! that's so much! Currently running 22 - 25 psi and loving life!
  • + 1
 Some Carbon rim brands say not to use Procore. Reynolds, for example, told me to go ahead, they test at significantly higher pressure than Procore is being run at (yes, even taking into consideration that Procore = highly localized pressure).

I’m sure they aren’t the only brand that’s 0FG on Procore/Ghetto-Procore.

@WAKIdesigns:
  • + 1
 @teethgrinder: I've heard it doesn't hold up though because it wasn't meant to withstand the forces. Have you had a look at yours recently? And how much time on it so far?
  • + 4
 @Saving-Jones1013: I am a pretty harsh rider, in kind to a bulldozer going through a rock garden. I've broken three carbon rims and dented my fair share of aluminum rims. I keep high pressures to mitigate that now and live with the little lack of traction.
  • + 1
 @pinkberry3: Awesome insight.
  • + 2
 @mikelevy: I heard more sram guide/ reverb problem than procore equipped rim exploding for average customers, statistically it isn't a problem despite it has a logical engineering background
  • + 1
 @likehell: you'd better be knocking on wood right now.
  • + 8
 @pinkberry3: Seems like what's needed is open cell foam rather than the closed cell that all the manufacturers use. This would allow the air to permeate the insert and help keep those impact pressure spikes down.

However (and obviously), closed cell is used so that the product doesn't soak up sealant and render it useless.

Going down that path... are we at a point yet where we don't need sealant to run a tubeless system? Are the rim and tire tolerances good enough yet that we can achieve a good seal without the sealant. And just use plugs for punctures? Similar to car tires?
  • + 1
 @Airfreak: I pinch flat tires all the time. running 30psi +/- 1 in the rear the tire gets caught between the rim and rock/root etc. I put a huck norris in and the problem seems to be minimized. I use a carbon rim and they're known to pinch tires.
  • + 1
 @likehell: I’ve only ever had one flat on a SG casing tyre, cut in the centre by a sharp rock, I think they are great they have survived without loosing air when my rim has been so bent once the tyres been un-mounted a new one’d not have any chance or sealing again. So they don’t stop rim damage - but inserts in my experience do.
  • + 5
 @ianwish: Been good enough for decades. UST. Just no one wants to use it now. Frown
  • + 1
 @loganm2977: No really, having a shop build a wheel is far too expensive. Here you're $200+ any time you need a new rim laced and a 2 weeks wait. I'm sure it's better if you do it yourself but it's not feasible for everyone. I got a Huck Norris for $27 on Amazon and it's been great so far.
  • + 1
 @ianwish: The other advantage of sealant though is not just tire seal but for thorns/punctures.
  • + 1
 @Airfreak: Which is why I mentioned using plugs for punctures.
  • + 2
 @ianwish: Depending on the puncture, at least in my recent experience with a "bacon" plug insert the sealent helped seal the surrounding hole. Also use a plug every time you get a needle pin hole? Id rather have the sealant and not have to worry about repair for 90% of punctures.
  • + 8
 @pinkberry3: The internal volume change when impacting a tire is pretty minimal. Nothing like bottoming a fork or shock.
And you end up running less pressure with Cushcore so the end pressure on impact is not super high.

Also, the statement Mike made " it sure seems like we're seeing more exploding rear wheels since these inserts have caught on" may or may not be true. So the whole theory that foam inserts have something to do with exploding rear wheels might be bunk.
  • + 1
 @ianwish: not been in long... Only started using it 4 weeks ago on the hard tail. Checked it last week when i went from oko tractor tyre sealant background to Stan's, and there was signs that is doing the job.

So it's staying for now. Not decided whether to do the HB160 when it eventually gets delivered.
  • + 3
 @pinkberry3: Don't think you are using PV=nRT correctly. The pressure spike would be insignificant with only a small fraction of the total air volume being compressed because of the small contact patch on the ground.
  • + 0
 @pinkberry3: I think you hit the nail on the head. A bead lock system would be neat to see. Dirt bikes sort of have one. It is just on part of the wheel though. It looks like a rubber shoe that clamps the tire down on the inner rim to keep the rim from spinning inside the tire.
  • + 0
 @Kitejumping: @drewm - it’s a no brainer why procore makes carbon rims explode, it’s a material made of fibers, most of them laid directionally along th perimeter of the rim. Resin is not that strong to keep them together. i would not use procore on any carbon rim. It also seems to me that procore is not a good system for stupid wide rims, as wider the rim the more exposed is it’s flange. Again I run the sidewalls and pressures as Zi pretty much would without procore inside.

huck Norris is like a basic insurance.
  • + 9
 @Smallbright: That's somewhat of how Cushcore works, hence the difficulty to install. Riding was believing for me and Cushcore. After using Huck Norris (it saved my rims a couple times) I shelled out the seemingly outrageous price for Cushcore. In my opinion, it's the simply one of the best wheel/tire-related upgrades to my bike since tubeless. In addition to rim protection, it really keeps the tires planted in turns and allows you to safely run 2-5 psi less.

It needs to be the right rider and terrain to justify it though. I'm an aggressive, 200lbs rider who chops through rock gardens like a fit kid through a ice cream cone. Before Cushcore I was denting rims running 33+ PSI. Our trails in Colorado can be very tough on bikes and wheels so the added weight penalty is worth it. If I rode on trails that were more smooth or actually cared how fast I climbed, I'd be singing a different tune.

I'd like to also add that I cut my EXO tire open on a rock and rode on Cushcore down a series of rocky sections for about a mile. It didn't cause any damage to my rim (which is carbon) or the insert.
  • + 6
 @pinkberry3: Something that no one has mentioned is the fact that ProCore was developed not to protect rims and tyres but to more closely couple the movements in the tyre with that in the suspension. Did your modelling allow for that?
The Syntace guy (name escapes me at the moment), so the story goes, wanted the fork/shock to start moving earlier during an impact. He ended up working with Schwalbe and they released the end product.

If you had a solid tyre then all the movement would be in the suspension.
Those pressure peaks should be lower than modelled if you allow for suspension motion.
  • + 3
 @acali: thank you. Delta V, and hence Delta P, is negligible on impact.
  • + 1
 @daugherd: we do it for $75 ,+$1 per spoke + the rim at msrp. Bring us rim, spoke and hub, $75. It's typically a two day turnaround.
  • + 1
 @Airfreak: Ya makes sense, just brainstorming solutions... I never seem to get just regular through the tire punctures so it doesn't seem like an issue for me (until it is I guess), mine are always blow outs or sidewall tears that sealant does nothing for anyway.
  • + 1
 @ryan83: This is good info... I've been debating whether to keep my current EXO tires and add cushcore or by new Double Downs... seems like it's around the same price, but I might like cushcore better??
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: If I recall correctly, the pro-core exploding was limited to just carbon fiber wheel sets, something about how stiff they were was causing it.
  • + 1
 @pinkberry3: so...munbo jumbo,blah,blah=2 tokens in the tyre?
  • + 1
 @Airfreak: 33-35 psi is way too high for a lot of people though. I run as low pressure as I can without rolling the bead or blowing up my carbon hoops. Experience tells me that's somewhere around 23-25 psi in the rear tire. If I could run 19 psi without grenading rims, I would - hence the appeal of inserts for some people. I've never tried them to though.
  • + 1
 @pinkberry3: Its like having a spacer/token in your fork/shock. At idle, pressure is the same, but a smaller volume effectively ramps up the spring rate aka PSI when compressed.
  • + 1
 unrelated to rim strength debate, putting cushcore on my 35mm internal width velocity rim+schwalbe tires +moto tire lever literally put a hole in the top end of my rim.
  • + 3
 @mikelevy I totally get how they might not be for everyone, but at 230 lbs riding weight, Cushcores are a rim and flat saver for me. I use them inside Maxxis double downs and to date have only had one flat due to a full puncture, which is way better than when I was riding tubes and tubeless. I don't disagree that the price is tough to swallow, but if that's the price to pay for avoiding downtime due to flats or a wheel rebuild, then to me it's absolutely worth it.
  • + 1
 @swirlycurly: yeah, I'm interested in these secret engineering equations being used here.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: when my roomate set up his tubeless for the first time he charged it to 60psi and blew the tire off the brand new wheel.

The forces exerted on the wheel warped/bent/untrued the wheel drastically. The wheel isnt ment to resist forces in those directions.

I would imagine a similare result when you pop the high pressure tube in the procore.
  • + 1
 @MikeyMT:

Ftd has a new design, i just got them, cake to install, but my wheels and tires are easy to seat.

Raceface turbine and maxxis wt tires
  • + 1
 I will happily take your bet this is entirely confirmation bias on your part.
  • + 1
 @TightAF: heard that. I’ve had the same experience and I’ve also been able to stop running DH casings thanks to ol Huck Norris
  • + 1
 @likehell: Super Grav for the win. Magic Mary front and rear and no flats. @schwalbe
  • + 1
 @Airfreak: I’m not personally running inserts. But as for impact on wider rims. We have multiple riders on 35mm ibis hoops with 2.5wt, 2.6 minions, Schwalbe 2.5 and 2.6, and WTB 2.5. No negative effects. Some insurance to your investment of carbon rims and a near guarantee of not burping even at lower pressures if you choose to ride that way. A lot of our rides like the dampness they add as well as more confidence charging into rock gardens.
As for tires...I feel like Maxxis is the only company to market towards wider rims. WTB and Schwalbe 2.5/2.6 tires have a nice slightly rounded profile and good sidewall support on 35mm rims.
  • + 1
 @NWuntilirest: watch the instruction vid next time...it does work. We install DD casing Maxxis on asymmetric 35mm Carbon rims using cushcore with one little plastic tire pry all the time. Even if you’re installing a wire bead dh tire, you should never be using a full size metal tire pry....I’ve seen numerous alloy rims with the can opener hole from someone using the metal prys and bad techniques.
  • + 6
 I dont know what sissy trails you guys that hate on this awesome solution ride on,but I would choose this over a dropper post if i had to. I HAVE NEVER come close to riding with 20/24 psi in my tires in 20+ years of riding and racing. The fact that i dont even think about taking harder/rougher lines with exo tires and carbon rims than i ever did with dh casing tires is easily worth twice the price. That AND its much better traction and braking and able to maintain a line rather than skiddering off the trail at speed.
The cushcore is simply mindblowing.
I seriously cant believe theres this much fickle nonsense about it. Embrace change and enjoy it. Modern mtn bikes are simply amazing.

This place is just bizarre ,sometimes
  • + 2
 @Airfreak: 35mm internal on carbon hoops,20/24 psi on WT exo's.
Its awesome in every way
Id quit if i had to go back to running 33/35 psi.
  • + 2
 I only know this cuz I won them in the advent calendar... but the rim strip on the new enve 730s work pretty damn well.. I am 220lbs naked and ride pretty hard. My current rear tire is a dhr2 exo and i have def pinched it on the rim several times at ~28psi with no problems.. I would never buy the enves cuz I can't afford them, but they seem to be working pretty well.
  • + 1
 @Saving-Jones1013:

I wish I could get away with that but my rims are beat up enough
  • + 1
 I definitely think you're onto something. I think some people believe they can add an insert and make any tire/wheel combo indestructible, leading them to believe they can pound on them as hard as they want.
  • + 1
 @pinkberry3: Is the volume change at impact really large enough to cause a large increase in pressure though? Surely you flat mostly by hitting a sharp edge like a rock, which causes only a small part of the tyre's circumference to deform and therefore has a tiny decrease in volume?

If wheels are exploding from a massive impact with a large contact patch (like a big flat landing or g-out) then I could see how you can create a larger change in volume and larger increase in pressure with an insert
  • + 1
 @daugherd: the shop you go to must suck if it takes 2 weeks to lace up a wheel
  • + 3
 People are different, but i still can not believe how you can not be blown away by cushcore. I have ridden bikes for 20 years now (mostly dh) and the damping cushcore offers is just insane. After 1year I can feel the insert aging though.
  • + 1
 @ianwish: with a split tube ghetto setup I reckon I can get away without running sealant due to the rubber to rubber contact. Also do you really need sealant if you are racing DH?

I think Enve are onto something with their rim strip that is base on a split tube setup.
  • + 1
 Bingo
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: nothing is 100% as it is man made. Also "I waki managed to dent a rim with Huck and Procore once", great example. Tire inserts are not new to off-road sports and are a great advantage. And just like helemts, applied forces have to go somewhere. Again nothing we make can be 100%. Same goes for Mike Levy. The sport has also changed up a level since the arrival of inserts and also well technologies and weights have dramatically changed. Its not just the tire inserts. I ask of you to revisit that observation.
  • + 1
 @Airfreak: with those pressures, you could as well run tires made of rock, mah god
  • + 1
 @ianwish: I have been able to set up a tubeless tire with minimal sealant (just enough to coat the interface between the rim and tire). Sealant on the inside of the tire is not really necessary, but I still use it. Car tires use what is called a "tire bead lubricant" which helps seal the rim/tire interface but they do not use sealant on the inside, as you mentioned. The main purpose for sealant in mountain biking is to help fix small punctures that occur while riding. Car tires can be as thick and puncture resistant as you want, mainly because a few extra grams won't hurt a 2 metric ton car. With mountain biking, every gram counts, so the tires are designed to have some puncture resistance, but they are not over-designed. Also, the surface that we ride on is very different from cars.
  • + 2
 @acali: I agree. I don't think that the volume change is significant enough to cause a massive pressure spike. I kind of did the analysis and post hastily because I had to run some errands. When I thought about it some more and looked back at the graph, you essentially have to compress half of the volume of the tire in order to get a pressure spike that is 2.5x the original pressure. That is a massive change in volume needed and I don't think you really get that ever on impact. At normal compression (1/5th the initial volume is compressed), the pressure spike is about 1.5x the original pressure. That does not seem substantial. Still, the analysis was interesting from an engineering standpoint, but maybe I should have looked at it more closely before posting and heading out the door!

I also agree that we just might be imagining this correlation between inserts and exploding tires. Sometimes it is easy to notice a phenomenon when we don't think it should be happening as much, as with the tire inserts.
  • + 2
 @swirlycurly: PV = nRT only works for quasi-static equilibrium processes. An impact can be approximated as an adiabatic, isentropic process, in which you want to relate the pressures by P2/P1 = (V2/V1)^k. See my reply to @acali to see my re-interpretation of the graph that I created.
  • + 1
 @R26: I did not take it into account. This was a tire-centric model because I wasn't using numbers and then when you bring the suspension into account, it definitely gets way more complicated. This was kind of a back of the napkin analysis. To truly do the analysis, you would need to take everything into account, but I also looked back at the graph when I had a bit more time and saw that the volume change of the tire is not enough to cause massive pressure spikes. We may just be imagining a correlation between exploding tires and the tire inserts.

I agree that the tire inserts increase the tire stiffness so the suspension does more work. That is one benefit of the system. I guess you might want to re-tune your suspension after installing an insert then!
  • + 1
 @loganm2977: cushcore for the win my dude
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: I fill my tyres with AngelDelight & whips up nice and smooth!
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I have no personal experience with cushcore, so personally can’t honestly do more that theorize.
  • + 1
 @daugherd: I build my own wheels, takes an hour to lace up a new rum, but I definitely see your point.

I still want to try cushcore very badly.
  • + 1
 @FLATLlNE: I want a cushcore for the rear. I haven’t tried any inserts or carbon rims.

I drool over Santa Cruz Reserves though, I wouldn’t complain about that change in my setup.
  • + 1
 @Keit: exactly
  • + 2
 @pinkberry3: Maybe you can help answer a question about running inserts some friends and I had?

We were wondering if the smaller volume created by an insert neccesitates a higher air pressure to get the same performance? Kind of like a 2.5 tire compared to a 3.0 tire.

We thought about this because I tried Pro Core at lower psi than I usually run in a DH set up and I was rolling the tire and getting rim strikes.
  • + 1
 @solidautomech: Yes good point, yes you will need a little more pressure with inserts making less volume
  • + 2
 @Keit: procore lets you use around 2-3psi less in the rear tyre. Then it allows you to use SG/DD casing for park/ DH without worrying about burping. To sum up it lowers the chance of puncturing by a lot and it’s not as messy job to install as it may seem. Huck Norris on another hand is like a tiny insurance. While I punctured single ply tyre on procore using it way out of its comfort zone, I split the huck norris in half on a Spec Grid casing, and the holes in the tyre were unrepairable. Hit was big but still.
  • + 1
 @loganm2977: do it front and rear. The ride quality is irreplaceable
  • + 1
 @likehell: yes, had the same experience. They’re a bugger to fit thou????
  • + 2
 diy ghetto foam insert cut with 9V battery and NiCr wire. Foam is typical closed cell foam from local suplier for 1.2 € for 1 meter. Did some alps and Losinj WC DH track and other rocky stuff. No punctures, no rim damage, nothing nada. Don't need some inserts for 100$ or more.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: I'm using tube plus with the insert at 120psi and maxxis exo tr at 20psi. no problems as few years.
  • + 1
 @scary1: totally agree. I run Huck Norris in my light trail bike. Procore (adjustability) on the dh and Cushcore on the rear of my do it all bike. And I have some ideas of using more intelligent materials in the future. For me Procore was truly a game changer once I had figured out how the two chambers needed to be adjusted depending on tire choice and terrain. In my group and by no means the most daring, but since running procore and cushcore I, have at times, just blasted past some of the best in the group. Huck Norris just adds a bit of insurance nothing more.
  • + 1
 I use old innertubes; cut the valve stem out, then run the blade on the inner seam of the "retired" tube, and wrap over the "live" tube. Works rather well, better than nothing at all. Adds a *bit* of weight, but I'm not a weight weenie and don't care about stuff like that. Hell, I don't even notice a difference, but I'm a hucker.
  • + 1
 @solidautomech: Did you use the same tire both with and without the pro core? How much lower of an initial pressure did you use?
  • + 1
 I don’t know.. broke 2 ibis 741 and 3, 742 without it. Haven’t had an issue since going with cushcore for the past year or so. I guess it really depends on the terrain. We ride some pretty gnarly rock here in SoCal and cushcore saves me for sure.
  • + 1
 @pinkberry3: I see what you mean. It has the same effect as installing a volume spacer in a fork or shock. However, having effectively a progressive air spring in a tire could reap benefits. E.g. being able to run lower pressures but then not suffering from large impacts and tires folding under impacts.
  • + 1
 @scary1: I certainly need the help running budget downhill suspension.
  • + 1
 @teethgrinder: you sound like a thrifty dentist!
  • + 2
 @scary1: yes! You’re spot on. Anyone who’s tried cushcore st this stage knows it’s a game changer. I don’t really get anyone’s hesitation at this stage...
  • + 1
 @pinkberry3: good point. what are your equations?
  • + 1
 @pinkberry3: It was my DH bike and I was running Flat Tire Defenders not Pro Core. I usually run 25 psi front and 28 psi rear and I dropped that to 22 front and 25 rear.

I’m running Cush Core on my trail bike now and while it has hasn’t allowed me to drop pressures it has allowed me to run EXO casing again with out flatting every other week. I have tried lower pressures and while the bead doesn’t come off the tire feels to squirmy in turns and on jump faces.
  • + 2
 I went with Procore instead of tubeless because
1. I didn't want to go through the trouble of seating a tubeless tire, using compressors or pressurized containers, tire levers or whatever else I'm reading over here. With Procore I can use whatever tiny handpump I can get my hands on and install the tire.
2. I don't want to be able to run low pressures without the risk of burping air or damaging tire or rim through hard impacts.

If you're running rims that are designed for tubeless use (like Stans) you should check with them whether they're up to the 6bar max pressure the tube is designed to accept. My rims were designed with Procore in mind so I don't expect any issues.
  • + 1
 @teethgrinder: does this actually work? I guess it's the same thing
  • + 1
 unserta only coming to the forefront as I feel rim/tyre bead needs to be improved maybe deeper thicker?

Would love to see a carcass between a bontrager SE and conti Baron.
  • + 2
 @pinkberry3: I think the "engineering equations" you've spared us are flawed at best. A simple pv/t = pv/t calculation shows that the increase in tire pressure is linearly proportional to the % of air volume that the impact "consumes." Pressing a tire all the way to a rim only reduces the effective tire volume by roughly 5 % worst case, so the most that pressure can increase is about 5%. Even with total effective air volume decreased w/ use of an insert, the total air in the tire is still far greater than the decrease in volume due to impact.
Even a 20% increase in air pressure (say from 5psi to 30psi) isn't going to result in a meaningful stress on the wheel.
  • + 2
 @mikelevy: Awesomely wrong.
  • + 2
 @mikelevy: Treating ProCore as some equivalent to foam inserts is not a legit comparison, at least with regard to their impact on wheel structure. The unique attribute of ProCore among these various inserts is the high pressure. The failure of ProCore wheels can easily be attributed to radical de-tensioning of the spokes. Applying 80psi to a 25mm internal cross section rim of 32 spokes will reduce spoke tension dramatically. Like from 110kgF spoke tension down to 50kgf or even lower. This is easily confirmed empirically . . . use a tensionmeter on your MTB wheel, then toss a road tire on, pump to even 60psi (I'd be afraid to go to 80 on a hookless rim) and check the tension again.
Run a DH course at sub-50kgF tension and you'll see wheel failures.
  • + 2
 @Inertiaman: when I was installing procore I got advice to retention the spokes after inflating it. Just like I did with my DJ wheels which I inflate to 65psi. I am pretty sure World Cup mechanics know that too...
  • + 1
 Foolish answer to something you need to try to realise it works well , exploding rear wheels really ?
  • + 58
 but tubes are tire inserts...
  • + 20
 No, a tube is way to cheap to be a tire insert... :-)
  • + 16
 @FuzzyL: Dont say that! They will raise the prices of tubes.
  • + 1
 No option for tubes and tire inserts?
  • + 2
 @FuzzyL: HINT: closed-cell foam, can be found at local suppliers for 1.2€ per 1 meter. Cut it with NiCr wire and 9v battery, or use sharp knife. Diy tire insert for like 5€, tested on DH track on Losinj. It is even cheaper than some inner tubes Smile
  • + 0
 Would sealant qualify as insert?
  • + 2
 I reckon the answer to all of this is to go back to tubes as tyre inserts - people dropped tubes to save pinch flats, went to tubeless designs, then experiences tyre burping or slow pressure loss around the bead seat, then bought high pressure tubes to keep the bead seated and started blowing rim walls, so went to heavy foam inserts to press the bead to the rim wall and the foam deteriorates and soaks up your sealant... Just get a tubeless tyre and put a tube in it. No burping, no exploding rims. If the tube pinches, the tyre will hold the air. If the tyre is slashed, the tube holds the air. Hella lighter than a pool noodle too.
  • + 1
 @bluechair84: Dude, I just went tubelessish last Friday. Tubelessish as I'm still running a tube as part of the Procore system. I don't expect the rim to fail as it was sold as Procore ready (and the rim manufacturer actually co-developed that system). As for your suggestion, sounds nice though I'm not sure how well the tire/rim interface would seal without sealant if doesn't comply to some strict standard like UST. Worth a shot though. Maybe use some softer, more malleable type or rim tape similar to what you find in the lid of a jar or bottle, to take up the imperfections. That said, I'd much rather go with that than some kind of foam insert. I want to be able to install a tire with a mini pump and bare cold and wet hands, just in case I have to do that out on the trail. I can do that with a tube, I can do that with Procore.
  • + 1
 @vinay: If you had a tube in your tubeless (non-procore) system, you wouldn't need sealant. Because the rim / bead interface isn't the thing holding the air, it doesn't need to comply with standards. I'm just thinking that the easiest way to solve burping, and to keep low weight is just to stick a normal tube back into a tubeless wheel system. Admitedly, you might still get the pinchflats which really is the whole point of a tubeless system but there's so many consequences of the system that a tube just seems the simplest solution.
  • + 1
 @bluechair84: Well yeah, but your suggestion was that if the tube punctures, the tire is still going to hold air. For that to happen, it still needs an airtight seal between rim and tire, wouldn't it? Sealant won't have created that (as it won't have distributed properly) so it would have needed to be a fitting interface like UST. That said, yeah a regular tubeless tire without sealant on a generic rim may hold pressure reasonably well, haven't really tried this to be honest.

I do admit tubes really are easy to work with. Apparently some idiots who ditch their punctured tubes in nature may have given it a bad name. But I've stuck with tubes until quite recently and I was quite happy with them actually. I was running latex tubes which may constantly lose air (over the course of days) but they're light, easy to patch and don't puncture easily. I have to admit I tried butyl tubes recently and these are nowhere as nice. No idea why these are more common and popular than latex. I was running them at (about) 1.5 bar in the rear and 1.25 bar in the front. It is just that because my new wheels came with a label "procore ready" that I took the plunge. Mainly because installing a tire is as easy as with a tube and the procore system protects my rim. So far I haven't found any downsides with procore. It may add to the cost but as I don't see how it could possibly wear I expect it to be a one-time investment.
  • + 1
 @vinay: Ah I see your point - well, I'm running tubeless tyres on a non tubeless rim - the rim wall doesn't even have a bead hook. It's just a straight wall. I didn't think there was any issue here as I've not had any sealant coming through. But now you mention it, I have got a really slow release of air and maybe it is coming through the bead and rim wall... hmm...
I reckon I would appreciate the impact protection of procore - my old alloy rims were dinged to buggery by the time I'd moved to the carbon hoops. I essentially run slightly higher pressures to ward of dings now.
  • + 26
 What's better?
250g of insert in a light weight tyre
Or
250g extra built in to a stronger tyre?
  • + 8
 from a sheer pain in the arse perspective, the latter.
  • + 6
 this is actually an interesting question but you have to look at lots of different aspects in the two choices. a good positive of inserts is being able to run lower PSI with less fear of blowing your tire off the rim. you may not be able to get that same result running a beefier tire at the same PSI. but a test to compare would be supppppper interesting. I feel like one of these bike websites should do it....hmmmm
  • + 2
 @Klainmeister:

agreed. there's a lot to be said for simplicity.
  • + 0
 Depends nojzilla. For descending fatter tyre is better, for climbing the thinner tyre with less pressure and an insert .
  • + 7
 @WAKIdesigns:

One of the 1st times I’ve thought you have talked sense rather than shit.
  • + 4
 Was literally just about to comment on how this the least trollish PB comment debate/reply for ages, aaaaand oh! There it is!

All great points lads, an yeah I 'd really like to see a test as, it seems modern lower pressures are an lighter tyres are causing the blow outs on blow offs that require the need tyre inserts.
As a heavier (fat) rider myself, I've never liked the squirmy feeling of super low psi. That means my fine line of grip vs squirm has a higher psi. Meaning I can get away with good stout DH tyres. I get the puncture resistance from that, less to no dings from that. So, believe it or not..... I'm still running medium weight tubes on good heavy tyres.... But yeah, lighter riders with lower psi are gonna get away lighter tyres so.... More punctures an the need for tubeless so more blow offs an dings so the need for inserts...
I guess there's a balance somewhere but would that sell £$€¥50-150 tyre inserts? So nah, probably no tests on PB any time soon Big Grin
  • + 3
 Have to add too, that I'm still.. Running cheap alloy 26inch rims, not super expensive plastic fantastics. I'm picking up bargains for like £20 an still getting an average width ( just over 30mm is average nowerdays right?)
And, tubes. So no worries about leaky dinged rims

If I do badly damage a rim, no worries
  • + 1
 If you run the same tire pressure in both, the insert will protect your rim from catostrophic dings a lot better.
  • + 1
 Good question! well I know which will be cheaper and last longer So think would be better just buying a heavier tyre
  • + 1
 @nojzilla: hey good point here. If bike nerds want to get extra nerdy, technically speaking maybe we should be saying something like "I run 28psi in my tires at 10% sag." One rider at a certain weight might not be able to reliably get away with the same psi as another rider. So to make weight of rider independent of psi, give a stat for tire sag recommended by the tire manufacturer. Just like rear shocks have factory sag suggestions. After all, technically speaking, your tires act as a dampener. ???
  • + 1
 @nojzilla: Same here, and I run latex tubes. They are at least as snakebite resistant as a Schwalbe butyl DH tube.
  • + 20
 I run inserts, CushCore on my trail bike, but the reason has nothing to do with flats. They do make the tyre feel TOTALLY Different underneath you. A little lower pressures, and quicker ramp up. They also dampen the Ride a lot as well! It’s been the single thing that has made my bike get a lot faster than any other upgrade.
  • + 4
 Agree, same experience. Smooths out the ride, rolls over roots and rocks like nothin
  • + 1
 Yep, I run them on my aluminium hardtail and they make slightly fewer of my teeth rattle out per ride.
  • + 0
 I totally agree. I ride them with 10 psi and spend my ride time tripping out on how smooth my bike is, and wondering if the grip will ever run out.
  • + 14
 This is stupid. Just run thicker sidewall tires. Take that 250g of weight from your pool noodle and put it into the sidewall and you will get fewer flats and have better support. Intense already made the solution like 20 years ago, get with it.
  • + 5
 I agree beefier sidewalls might be the only option at this point in things like EWS and DHI were speed and trail is too knarl.

However, a pool noodle isn't effecting the suppleness of the casing (read: traction and comfort). Beefing the casing up is going to cause a loss in those two areas.
  • + 2
 @Jamminator:

No interest in heavy, hard to install systems here. Especially if u slash a sidewall out in the backcountry. I hear it's murder to try to get the bead off the rim, then where the fk do u put the insert when you throw a tube in the tire? For sure could make sense for racing tho.

Huck Norris in my standard casing 950-1000g tires cuz it's easy as sh*t and lightweight and staves off the occasional rock ping against my carbon rims. A very easy way to add a level of insurance. Negligible weight. No it won't save me if i lazily plow thru a boulderfield at mach turkey with 15psi, but i think it's a good solution for some riders.

For alot of riders definitely worth considering something equiv to a DD casing on the rear, tho.
  • + 7
 @Jamminator: I've heard this argument before, but don't understand it. I've never felt a traction issue in a DH casing tire vs a light xc casing tire; if anything it's quite the opposite.
  • + 4
 @jefe: DH casing tires are much stiffer and have less traction for slow speed riding, for example climbing over roots the casing will deform much less than an XC or trail tire and will spin out a lot easier. I ride a DH casing rear tire on my enduro bike. and it's perfect for enduro/park/dh when you're at speed, but it has noticeably less traction while climbing or other slow speed riding. Worth it for the support on the way down, but I have yet to find a tire that's both supportive at high speed and compliant at low speed.
  • + 2
 Those tire inserts are not made to safe you from a flat. They are made to run lower pressure without smashing your rims. But there is atm only one who works good, ProCore.
  • + 1
 @Jamminator: this is why tire companies will absorb the market of tire inserts, with some sidewall innovation
  • + 1
 @jefe: will have to chalk it up to type riding and terrain. @dthomp325 explained it pretty well... it's mostly casing deflection creating more contact patch by deforming to the terrain. Some XC race tires can have a surprising amount of grip on the right surface, they're just not very durable for everyday trail riding, nevermind gravity riding.
  • + 1
 @Serpentras: not so sure, cushcore offers similar protection with additional vibrationdamping, which is the reason i run it. I do not flat very often while trailriding but i always thought that the damping of trailtires sucks. With cushcore damping is better than with a dh tire
  • + 1
 @Serpentras: I'm absolutely with. this what the inserts are good for: protect your rim while ridin on low pressure for maximum grip.
you still need a good DH tire to prevent flats.
I got myself the flat tire defenders after investing enough money into great carbon rims. Rim width 32mm (inner) Reartire Maxxis WT, Front Magic Mary SG.
But: for all those thinking about getting insert for the first time: at least the flat tire defenders: mounting tires is easy. But unmounting at least for me only works with a tire mounting machine. Also refilling or changing milk only work through the valves. No way to lever the tire from the rim with a tire lever, since the insert presses the tire onto the rimwall permanently.
  • + 2
 @optimumnotmaximum: wellp I said there is only one who works good to my knowledge because if you really punched a hole what is to large to seal even with tubeless tires repair kit on the go you need to insert the tube.
Try to dismount your crushcore in the wild and dirty trails. Even the procore is bad but it is manageable. Try to stuff your crushcore back into your backpack. I talk about the whole package, what is the lightest derailleur good for if it fails that much on trails. What are tire Inserts good for if you get a flat but are unable to pull them out to get home fast with a tube.
  • + 9
 Tire inserts have changed my riding. More support in the corners, and brings more confidence in my equipment and my riding/racing. I ran 19 psi during a race and my rims went fine! definitely would recommend. Worth the price
  • + 9
 *Adds a bunch of volume reducers in shock to make it more progressive
*Destroys wheels/tyres whilst not getting full travel from shock
*Adds a volume reducer to tyre
*Profit?
  • + 6
 Since I use Huck Norris i only had one Flat in 18 month (the Spokes destroyed mi tubeless tape) with enduro tires,
Maxxis DD and Conti Trail King Protection, before that I had at least 4-5 punctions with DH tires.

It works pretty well for less weight, for me.
  • - 1
 Maxxis DD casing tires have the same sidewalls as their DH tires. The only real difference in them is DD has a kevlar bead vs a wire bead in the DH which isn't going to effect how much they flat (maybe how much they burp though). Seems like the Huck Norris is worth more than having a wire bead running around your tire though!
  • + 6
 I answered, "No, I run tubeless." But the real answer is that I can't ride fast enough to damage rims and tires while running 24-28 psi in my Minion DHF's front and rear 2.6 and 2.5 and weighing in at around 180 lbs all geared up. All that info is crucial to my set up working, because I'm also not the best line picker LOL.
  • - 1
 Wow, 24 and 28 in 2.6 and 2.5? I weigh the same, but am running 2.3 versions of the same tires with the same pressures. You should try going lower... you'll gain some grip... but at the same time you may also start hearing that wonderful "TING" every once in a while.
  • + 1
 @ianwish: That's exactly why I use those pressures. I've done the low pressures in the past and it's just not worth it for the repairs it causes. I'm fine with the traction I get. I live in the Okanagan and no matter what you do, it gets skatey in the summer.
  • + 9
 30 psi in my minions I don't care about your opinions
  • - 4
flag benz-tech (Jun 15, 2018 at 21:39) (Below Threshold)
 +1 because you rhymed.
  • + 1
 @benz-tech: you just don't get it do you, Scott?
  • + 1
 Scrolled down for days just for this
  • + 4
 Running Huck Norris, havent had too much issue with flats on tubeless before or after, but I have a lot less dents in my rim. I don't use it as an excuse to run less pressure (bad idea) but it gives me a little bit of peace of mind for the oh-shit moments.

I just run it in rear though.
  • + 5
 I’ve been running Huck Norris this season. We have extremely sharp, rocky terrain where I live and I haven’t had a flat all season so far. I like to run 22/24 psi front/rear. I’m totally sold on running an insert.
  • + 3
 how many flats last year at this time?
  • + 3
 How much do you weigh? That's really low pressure for a rocky environment...
  • + 1
 I actually forgot to check my pressures a week ago. Felt a little soft, but the traction was phenomenal and just went with it. We ended up smashing 4 hours of trails with some sharp rocks here and there (Messilän kisapätkät, for Finns). Felt a few thuds on the rear but nothing more. Checked the pressures afterwards and behold 16 psi front, 18 rear. Thank you Huck Norris!
  • + 2
 @yabbaDABdo: Probably 3 or 4.

@mammal: I’m around 155 lb. I am pretty light on the bike and don’t really make a habit of smashing through stuff.
  • + 4
 @letsgoridebikes18: I weigh 100lbs more than you (Not overweight just 6'4") and run only about 4psi more than you do front and rear. I feel your comment is dead on in regards to being light on the bike and making good line choices. Not a flat in over a year for me.
  • + 1
 I ran a HN in the back wheel on my hardtail. Vancouver Island without one will result in damage often... South of England, not such a necessity.
  • + 7
 I demo'd cushcore and I thought it wasn't all that great. I imagine I won't use tire inserts.
  • + 9
 I ran cushcore for a few months. I was very impressed at the start but the damping eventually became too harsh as the inserts aged. after I removed them the bike rode better and was smooth again.
  • + 5
 @panaphonic: Ya, many of these systems seem to degrade over time. Seems more like a race day strategy if anything.
  • + 1
 @panaphonic: Stan’s sealant? We’ve had cushcore in tires for almost a year now with Orange and it didn’t seem to make it firmer. But I’ve heard of some teams using new inserts every race because of them firming up
  • + 1
 @mountainyj: Yes I was using Stan's. If CC was always as good as the first ride you use it, that would be amazing. I was surprised at how quickly it firmed up too.
  • + 1
 You‘re essentially shoving a pool noodle in there.
  • + 4
 I change my vote from "no, but interested" to just "not interested". I just took a peak at the price of FTD and cushcore and the labor involved in "maintaining" the setup. If I were a pro racer I'd be very interested, but as a recreational rider the current setup of EXO or DD tires, sealant and correctly maintained tire pressures works quite well.
  • + 3
 Just installed Procore this evening. 1.0bar in the front, 1.2bar in the rear (tire, the tube has something like 5 bar in it). Will see how it goes tomorrow morning Smile .

Poll is a bit odd though. I do run tubes, doesn't make it no.
  • + 0
 1 bar=ambiance pressure, right?
well... nevermind if inside and outside are communicated by a puncture, you just can't flat lol
  • + 1
 @ismasan: pressure difference from the atmosphere. So 1 bar higher pressure than outside the tire. But yes, normal air pressure is 1 bar, so the total pressure inside the tire equals 2 bar, but the pressure gauge will read 1 bar.
  • + 1
 @ismasan: I'd be interested to see what kind of equipment you use to measure absolute pressure in the tire (instead of overpressure, which is what mine measures).
  • + 1
 @vinay: wouldn't you want to always be measuring overpressure since it accounts for how much force the atmosphere applies to your tire in addition hence why 0 psi overpressure is still a flat despite the tire still having 15 ish psi of atmospheric pressure since it's also relative of how much force the atmosphere applies
  • + 1
 @Mac1987: aaaah, I see.
Science's never been my thing.
The more you know...
  • + 2
 @vtracer: Yes, obviously overpressure is what it is all about, which I didn't explicitly stated this in my initial post. Absolute pressure only makes sense for meteorology.
  • + 3
 I tried Huck Norris last season, now I have Cushcore. Huck was good at preventing pinch flats and rim dents at a reasonable weight. It did nothing for sidewall tears (to be expected) and sucked up sealant.

3 months ago I swapped Huck for Cushcore....and now I would have a hard time not riding without CC. Yes, CC is heavy. Yes, initial installation is a bear. But the ride quality is unreal. I don't know if it's the claimed "damping" effect, but I have lowered by psi to 18/19. Traction, including drive, braking and cornering, are simply better. I can plow through rock gardens without thinking about damaging the rims or worrying about pinching.

There is also a dramatic improvement in cornering precision. The sidewalls are indeed stiffer and I find myself holding lines much tighter than before. It's like I eliminated an understeering problem that I didn't know existed. And, after 3 months riding through sharp rocks, I've had zero sidewall tears.

Having said that, I'm dreading the day I get tear on trail, since doing a trailside repair that a tire plug can't fix, is essentially out of the question with CC
  • + 1
 Yup I have had the same experience. I think of the cushcore system as a suspension upgrade more than flat protection. If I'm not racing I'll run 10 psi front and rear It's like a magic carpet ride!
  • + 2
 @YokoOno I'd like to hear more about the trailside repair story --their FAQ says you can punch a long-valve tube thru the insert as a last resort... but is it gonna be possible to get the tube in, then re-seat the tire trailside?

Quote:
Another option is to carry a lightweight inner tube with a long (48mm) valve stem. In the event of a flat, force the valve stem through the foam so CushCore can remain inside the tire.
  • + 1
 @olslash: I haven't had to yet but I would use the same strategy I used on my old tubeless setup. Remove the portion of the tire with a hole in it from the rim. Dry it out with a lighter. Cover the hole with duct tape. Use the lighter to warm the duct tape and seal it to the tire. The only thing that is different is that you have to start by pushing the entire bead and insert into the centre channel of the rim first. You will need metal levers, duct tape (wrap a bit around your bars) a lighter, strong hands and about 20 minutes.
  • + 3
 For me personally the tire inserts just don't make sense. I run around 26 psi on a wide rim in the rear and I don't huck hard enough to impact my carbon hoops. Sure I could run less pressure in the rear if I had an insert but when I run that low of psi I don't like the squirmy feel when cornering. I can see the use in them for people that are really bad at cornering and for people that huck it crazy hard. Think they are kind of pointless for your average blokef. I imagine if I started to have issues with flats I would rather try a thicker casing first.
  • + 5
 Thats the part you don't get, it will stop tires from squirming as well.
  • + 1
 The squirming is also the point. I ran my first Enduro race a few weeks ago. The conditions warranted going with pressures as low as you could to gain grip. I don't run inserts and could only go so low before my tires start folding over in high speed corners.

But the guys who were running inserts, were able to run lower pressures since the inserts also stiffen the sidewalls and as such gain traction and speed.


Not that it affected my placing... I'm just out there for fun, but it's interesting talking to the guys and chatting about various set-ups.

It will always be a battle between grip vs. squirming/folding vs. flat/rim protection. trying to find the sweet spot is tough.
  • + 1
 @ianwish: I suppose I could see a bit of a benefit it it allowed you to run lower pressure without the squirm but I wouldn't want to be carrying that extra weight around all the time and I wouldn't want to be putting the insert in the tire then taking it out all the time when conditions warrant the need for extra grip. I suppose I stand a bit corrected on my initial comment, though I do question how much something like the Huck Norris really reduces the squirm.
  • + 2
 2 race seasons ago I went through five FR 570 rims even running wire bead DH casing tires (28F/36R psi).
Last season installed cush core and went to double down casings and only killed one rim.

5 FR 570's= $325
Cushcore = $150

Im sold.
  • + 2
 I've been running cushcore inserts for over a year now. Every time I change my tires, I can definitely see all the superficial marks on the insert that would've gone straight to my rims. You can install cushcore in about 10 mins per tire in you're being lazy, and you can do it without tools.

The sidewall support and massive grip you get is well worth it. It also acts to slow the rebound/bucking you get when running higher PSI.

I dont think any of the other inserts really mimic what cushcore does. You can literally ride home on a flat and not worry about carrying a spare tube and CO2.
  • + 1
 Agreed
  • + 1
 Have you literally ridden home with a flat with fish core? How far would you want to ride with a flat?
  • + 1
 @Endurbro404: I have, actually I did it today! (valve issue not anything cushcore related) It is unbearably squirmy. TBH you don't really want to ride it flat, but you can do it and you don't have to stress about wrecking your tire and rims, which is actually pretty nice.
  • + 1
 @motion: does doing so destroy the foam?
  • + 2
 @bluechair84: I'm sure at some point it would, but from what I've seen the only real damage to them comes from pinching caused by a high impact event. They are basically made of the same foam as sneaker soles so that should give you an idea of how they wear.
  • + 3
 30mm internal width rims
180lb rider on rocky terrain
Front: DD casing at 26psi
Rear: DH casing at 30psi

What's everyone doing running such low pressures? My bike feels like a wet noodle if I run any lower.
  • + 0
 i run 18 front 22 rear w/ cushcore. the traction is phenomenal, and it acts like extra suspension.
  • + 2
 @moroj82: Whenever I run pressures that low, the bike gets super squirmy. Does CC give the tire more rigidity and stability too?
  • + 1
 @YouHadMeAtDrugs: Yes it fully supports the sidewalls and stops them from squirming in corners. I stated using cushcore last august and I'll never go back. I run 10 psi front and rear (15 if racing) and I still finish rides wondering how the f*ck can my bike be so grippy, and smooth?
  • + 2
 I'm with you on this... If the trail is twisty and fast a feel like my wheels are trying to escape from under me with low 'high-traction' pressures. If you're just straight lining, sure - the bigger footprint will give you better braking and acceleration or will hold on to lose terrain, but my trails go left and right with regularity. That higher pressure digs the corner knobs into the terrain and keeps the wheel in the direction I want it to be.
  • + 1
 @bluechair84: I'm assuming you have not used cushcore then. You pay a bit with the weight but it completely eliminates tire squirm. For the record I'm a middle of the pack enduro racer and I weigh about 180.
  • + 1
 @motion: I have not - and I've only just gotten around to tubeless. I've had some carbon hoops for a while that are not tubeless ready so I've finally gone ghetto. But, I just don't see the physics behind what you're saying. In my mind, it's the pressure that gives the tyre it's shape. The tyre isn't squirming because the bead is moving around the rim shoulders... surely!? Anyway, the increased rolling resistance of a low pressure tyre isn't attractive to me as I'm very much a trail rider and descents aren't the be-all-and-end-all. It's unlikely I'll need the ding protection and anti-squirm advantages of a foam insert. One day I'll probably investigate when the entrance costs aren't so high Wink
  • + 1
 @bluechair84: Fair enough I love them but you don't have to use them. Regarding the other stuff, yes the air pressure gives your tires shape but cushcore adds support past a certain point. 10 psi is nowhere near enough to support a tire sidewall in a berm but 18-20 is getting there. When you have cushcore 10psi gives the tire shape and the chushcore stops the sidewall from folding over past the insert. If that doesn't make sense go to the cushcore site and look at the explanations/diagrams they give and it should be a bit more clear. BTW on bumpy terrain low tire pressures are actually more efficient! Weird but true and worth checking out.
  • + 1
 @motion: cheers, ok I can see how at very low pressures they can replace the support given by the air - not sure I'll ever be low enough for that! I've only just set up my wheels to be tubeless but if I still have some flatting issues, I'll give Cush a try.
  • + 2
 I currently run procore front and rear. the major issue I have is with sealant finding it's way into the valve system and screwing with the ability to get your pressure right. have several dents in the rear rim when I have run pressure to low by accident in the internal chamber without realising it. when it runs how it is designed it's amazing but when it's not running properly you might as well not have it in there. having said that the extra grip at lower pressures is amazing.
  • + 1
 @rogerknauf: thats the biggest downside w/ procore id experienced. Ride was better than cushcore. Traction was definitely better than w/ cushcore. Sealant mucking up valves on race day moved me away from it.
  • + 3
 I do. I’m 6’6” and 250lbs. I’m also a pretty big hack so pinch flats and burping stan’s everywhere got old. Running an insert in the rear tire of my DH rig and HT fixed all that for the most part.
  • + 5
 I'm sold on a Cush Core on the rear. The Vittoria insert looks reasonable too.
  • + 3
 2nd that. I aim to try one or the other this summer. Been tubeless for years but looking for more rim protection.
  • + 8
 I've got some of those Vittoria inserts coming for testing. Review soon-ish. Ish.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: Eager to see what's up with those.
  • + 2
 i think its the newer wider rims that are the issue here.....i could be wrong but my old 21mm internal crossmax sx wheels have no issues in 2+ years heavy riding and im guessing its partly because the tire is much wider but if i run a similar width tire with say an internal 30mm its getting more like having stretched tires on a car and the rim edge is less protected. thats my guess anyways....
  • + 2
 no puctures in 2 years

my setup = 26" wheels mavic crossmax sx with 21mm internal width running 2.35 onza ibex and onza cannis tyres. Ive hit tons of nasty rocks at speed. I dont do huge jumps but im a hefty 15 stone on a shortish travel full susser and its held up fine this long. Even if im not jumping far i do land heavy sometimes in bad ways and still good.......probbably gonna have a wheel explode on me now ive typed this.

dont know how everyone trashes so many tyres and wheels. I ride as often as poss in north wales were its nice and rocky and no issues with tyres and rims so far. Only thing is my wheel bearings wear out quicker than i like but thats it.
  • + 2
 Two seperate 4 day visits to angel fire, one w/ Assegai & one w/ DH DHF & cushcore on back. Running 32h ex472 29, 28psi no insert, 26psi w/ cushcore.

Rims destroyed equally. Flared from impacts and big s-bends.

Cushcore I thought would give more protection, and doubling up rock gardens proved to be too much (180# rider, sb5.5, avy tuned shock).

Im just accepting a race will cost a rear rim. Giving up on inserts.
  • + 1
 I'm not one that punctures much, still on tubes albeit beefy DH tubes (~1.5mm thick badgers) and no desire to go tubeless after multiple failed attempts where tyres blew off rim. I walked up to a stall at fort bill where is seen a reasonably simple insert setup and it seems light and pretty straight forward, cant remember which one it was, but i instantly lost interest when asked the price, sorry but i'd rather take the flat and stick a cheap tube in... until they come down to realistic prices i'm not even remotely interested.
  • + 1
 Huck Norris for trail bikes, ProCore for the big bikes. If you've used them, you can feel the difference. They do what they are supposed to do. Just don't go expecting all the hyped up bullshit of marketing claims, be realistic in your expectations, and they won't let you down.
  • + 1
 Procore is the shit. I run quality chinese carbon rims 70-100 psi in procore. Single ply tires if i feel like it, because if i cut a single ply tire the procore acts as a run flat, i can ride rocky downhill with a cut flat tire and not famage my rim or have my tire come off woth confidence. If i really want to assure i dont flat, which is less important becauee of the run flat capability, i can run a dual ply. I weight 200 lbs and a very agressive downhill freeride all mountain rider double black daimond rider. My procore system has outlasted so many tires, seats, brake pads, grips. If your rim doesn't work with procore, it is not the fault of procore, but that of your weak rim manufacure. You can use a lighter carbon rim with procore because it is more protected from strikes. Procore is the best progressive technology in mtb since the dropper or arguably the hydraulic disc brake
  • + 1
 I Can hear the difference with a huck norris in on every ride. Ie I don't here my rim hitting stuff. Weight is negligible especially Compared to going for full fat dh grade tires. I'm fully sold on them. Can't stop a sidewall slash sure but those little nicks at the tire bead that the sealant would fix or ocasssionly need need a patch job have disappeared completely. The biggest difference was on my hardtail. That extra few psi I could drop made the bike so much smoother.
  • + 1
 I'm just waiting for a proper non-wire bead Maxxis DH tire that will setup tubeless on my cheap DH wheelset. I'd be willing to give FTD or Cush Core a go if the price was more like a bro deal... I'll keep the weight off my trail bikes, and the fat bike is still tubes. So.... Curious but only on the DH bike.
  • + 1
 I don't use inserts but I understand why some do. I haven't had a flat since 2014 when I started going tubeless. I keep the pressure at 25 front and 28 rear and never had a problem. I'm a big dude (6'5, 205lbs) so I wouldn't want to drop the pressure any further, I hate that squirrely feeling in the rear tire. I also don't ride super aggressively. I rarely shuttle and hit the bike park 3-5 times a season. If I did, I'd consider inserts if I were flatting or worried about dinging my rims. I have Stan's Flow MK3s right now and no damage or dents at all in two seasons.
  • + 2
 Inserts may help prevent pinch flats, but they offer next to no protection for sharp, janky rock punctures/cuts. If the added weight is deemed OK, then get heavier walled carcass tires.
  • + 2
 Not overly interested in loading up tyres on my trail bike, have ridden cushcore and it is heavy and makes the bike feel dead, for DH i would probably use it. Maxxis DD on the rear pretty well has me covered .
  • + 1
 I’ve been riding a hard tail (chromag Rootdown) for the last year in the same terrain I used to ride my mojoHD. I had a steep learning curve with keeping it light on the back end off drops and in rocky sections. I blew through the first rim pretty quickly so I started running higher pressure. this year it’s better but I really hated the feeling of having too much air in the rear. So my first cushcore just arrived yesterday. Excited to give it a go. If it gives me a little piece of mind and saves me replacing another rim this season then I’m all in.
  • + 1
 I've been pleasantly surprised with the addition of CushCore in my setup. Can run lower pressure, have noticeably better traction and ride quality, and can slam into shit with wreckless abandon with very few consequences. Well worth it in my book.
  • + 1
 I'm going to preface this comment by saying that I don't particularly care much either way or the other when it comes to personal choices in tires, tubes, tubeless, inserts, etc.... What I am gathering here is that there were tires and tubes and it wasn't perfect, then tubeless came along which saves a little bit of weight and allows you to run slightly lower pressure without the fear of a pinch flat. Tubeless isn't perfect though either, now you have to add sealant which is messy and add a little weight, and at lower pressures you have to be careful of burping the tires off the rim, and severe impacts that will pinch flat a tubed tire will most likely flat a tubeless one. Then someone says, let's add some kind of insert into the tires to help with those real nasty impacts, which once you add up the sealant and insert system, you're dangerously close to the weight of a tube.....so why not just run a tube? Everyone I know, regardless of tube preference caries a tube with them in case of a flat, it seems like an improvement that didn't fix anything, just rearranged the problem.
I think I'll stick with my tubes, not because it's better or worse, but because it's simple, no sealant, inserts, special tire pumps, and the extra weight really doesn't add up to be enough of a bother.
  • + 2
 Maybe it's time for downhill rims to have a bead-lock option like off-road trucks and Jeeps.

Then the market can flood with fake bead-lock rims for all the scene-points idiots Big Grin
  • + 1
 I only run tubes simply because of how many tubes I give away to people who have flat tubeless tires. Point of interest, I have to generally change the tube as the tubeless rider generally has no pump or any idea how to rip a tire off a rim.
  • + 1
 I installed insider wheel set of we are one on my 2018 nomad, I previuosly I was running 24PSI on the back and 20 PSI on the front and kept hearing the dings on the rock garden and I recalled they run Huck Norris on their bikes. I put them on and the dings are gone running basically the same pressure. I also feel the Hucks help the tire to retain its shape. On turns I don’t feel the tire burping. Definitely worth the used, and I am about 195 pounds with gear on.
  • + 1
 I was running Huck in the rear and it clearly did it's thing with impacts. I run DT EX 471 and it had multiple bite marks in it and I never flatted and only had 1 small ding in from a side impact. I've now gone to K-Flex pipe from a hardware store, and while I'm not running lower pressures in the tyre, I am protecting the rim from dings. No dings means no fixing, or no buying new wheels, which means I can spend money elsewhere.
  • + 1
 Running FTD’s on the DH bike. Ran last year in Whistler with much less dents than normal and same rim all season (never happened before). Running this year on lighter rim and same result regardless off many hard rim strikes. Always run DT rims/Maxxis tires. The added suspension feel, vibration dampening and seemingly added traction I don’t want to go without. Thos is from a 200+ pound aggresive rider. Might not be as noticable for someone lighter but personally I love them.
  • + 1
 I've got flow mk3 rims, procore at 60psi, and double down DHF at pressures between 6-12 psi front and rear. Only 15 years ago I was running 50psi in the back 45 in the front, to prevent tyres folding in turns.. The extra control at low psi is good, hence I'm sticking with procore, despite the difficulty in changing tyres. (I understand cushcore is at least as bad)
  • + 3
 I run tubeless in my DH. I was going through a rear wheel every three months. I’m reckless. Huck Norris was the remedy. I can’t ding my rim if I try now. Cheers
  • + 1
 They add weight (not that I care) and few to none of them seem to avoid burps/sidewall cuts associated with running grippy lower pressure. Personally. Tubeless maxxis dd casing or spez grid. Also running propper pressures help avoid frequent rimstrikes/snakebites. If the smartmousse by Mr wolf prevents burps and could come a little lighter... Say perhaps a firmer/lighter core foam... I'd be interested in that.
  • + 1
 "Proper pressure" as in too much pressure.
  • + 1
 I sympathize with the people who have to install brand new inserts with brand new tires that are both stiff and tight-fitting, on relatively narrow rims. I've done this recently... such a bitch to get the tire to sit into the center rim channel with the CushCore in place.

I'd pay someone else to do it for me. I'd consider it a good for $20.
  • + 3
 This year I went Huck Norris in the rear tyre RR SG only, so far no dented rims this year. Last year by this time two rear rims dented to death.
  • + 1
 i just bought new rims for my trail bike and im considering putting in inserts in them. i did some research and i like the benefits of Cush Core with better handling and rim protection but the cost didn't seem worth it unless im racing. so my plan is to ride Huck Norris just on the rear because that is where i get most of my rim dings even tho im riding higher tire pressure in the rear. so we will see how that goes.
  • + 1
 Has anyone tried the new carbon rims from Stan's that supposedly have 10mm of flex to reduce the risk of blow outs or tire/rim damage? I assume they are marketing it for those folks who would otherwise use tire inserts. Personally I don't huck often so boring old tubeless on "regular" carbon rims have always served me well.
  • + 1
 Why not run a full foam insert (like a Bib mousse for mx tires)? No worries about losing air for sidewall rips. I'm sure the weight is not much different than a cushcore + sealant. Tune ability - different sidewalls and stiffness of the foam can cure this.
  • + 2
 I run Huck Norris on the rear of a Kona process 111, had 6 punctures on a lakes ride without it( first being too big for tubless to seal) same ride same conditions with and not a single issue.
  • + 1
 I run a home made huck norris in both Maxxis 3c tyres for 6 months or more. With a DD rear tyre its almost revolutionary tbh, i can happily run low PSI whilst having no hesitation hitting a rocky section at full tilt. 1 puncture in 6 months, sorted with a plug on the trail.
  • + 1
 Where do you get the foam? Or, more important, what foam do you use?
  • + 1
 I've installed a Cushcore in my new wheels. My last set of wheels look like I took a hammer to them. The first time I dinged my old wheels I couldn't run it tubeless anymore, and that was running 24PSI with Super Gravity/Double Down tyres. I put a tube in it and bumped it up to 28PSI and by the time I got my new wheels the old rear wheel had three more, even larger, dents in it. Considering I just dropped close to $1500AUD on these new wheels, and the old wheels were $900 themselves, I don't think I'd be running it any other way. I also weigh under 60kg so I don't think rider weight had much to do with it and, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I felt I was running generous tyre pressures to ward off dents and still had issues.

I've got to say though, installing a tyres on a Cushcore is EXTREMELY hard Frown
Particularly when you install it the first time and then blow it off the bead because you inflated it to 35 PSI :\
  • + 1
 I purchased CushCore to protect my ENVE M70's (would never buy ENVE again btw) and was shocked at how much of a difference the insert made while riding! I noticed a little bit high frequency bump absorption around my local XC trails but the true difference showed when I made a trip to Angel Fire and rode my buddies bike for a lap without CushCore (same bike and same wheels and same tires) then back on my bike. It is night and day. Be warned the first time installing the inserts is a huge pain in the A$$ but it get better once you figure out a system.
  • + 1
 I look at the racers and in dh i see race ruined by flat.. and they use insert... so?

When they become cheaper and easy to insert or easy to repair a flat on the trail.. ok... but at now.. no thanks

If the goal is to run lower pressure every year.. maybe producers have to change the tire concept...
  • + 2
 I have cushcore's on my expensive ass carbon rims 24/7. For me its not about the run flat option, but rather some insurance for the rims, and they allow me to ride at lower a lower PSI without rolling/burping my tire.
  • + 1
 Absolutely run inserts. CushCore. Will have a very very hard time running a bike without them going forward. Heavy? Are you serious? I want you to hand them to your toddler and tell them with a straight face that daddy’s not strong enough to pedal these around because they are too heavy. They weigh as much as a tube, but do not change the tire casings compliance and rolling resistance like a much heavier casing does. I’m honestly shocked there is so much hesitation from people to give them a try. For DH? I think you’d be mad not to run them. For trail/all-mountain? Yeah there too if you like to attack things and test how much you can get away with and deliberately take rough lines. I didn’t build my bikes to ride around all the bumps. Flats are so much less common now. The tire behavior and tracking and damping is so much improved. Sidewall stability is much much higher and I have not burped a tire since installing. And your rim is well protected from getting smashed. They’re not cheap, and they’re a bit of a process to install especially at first, but man it’s been so worth it in my mind.
  • + 1
 This is a race product, to enable you to get to the bottom of an important timed section - not a recreational product so you can brag about how little pressure youre running. Thats the point for the non racers - its another gimmick. The fact that wheel warranties have increased since these things made the debut says it all. A stupid product which if being used should invalidate any wheel warranty. If your worried about smashing your rims run sensible pressures. One comment even mentioned these cores are like "extra suspension" - i mean, seriously!?
  • + 2
 I'm still using good old trustworthy tube with my 26" tire to my DH bike. And I haven't changed the tubes after 5 summer riding seasons so far.
  • + 1
 Made my own inserts with cheap pipe insulation. Practically free, and the weight penalty is minimal. I run the same tire pressure (20psi) front and back, and have noticed less rim impacts.
  • + 1
 Pipe insulation probably isn't ideal since it's pretty low density and can absorb sealant due it using open cell foam. If you want to do better ghetto inserts.pick up some high density closed cell foam
  • + 1
 @vtracer: Also did this. For $10 an end I can't complain. The insulation I got has an outer layer that minimises liquid absorption. The company is called K-Flex. Should be available at your major hardware store.

Weighs around 100g an end.

This is for trail and enduro application (and obviously not the perfect solution but for its cost its great)
DH and Park I switch to SG casing no questions asked.
  • + 1
 FTDs are a godsend on our old school DH. It's fast, steep, rocky, and slick where you need both traction and rim protection. And yes, I run them with the heaviest DH tires I can find.
  • + 1
 There should have been a poll option "No, but I did try them at some point" . I tried them and they worked but for the price and weight increase it just felt like i replaced one evil with another.
  • + 2
 I dont think i will get up any hills with the weight of tires now days add 200 grams to that its just to much and i wont mention the price ???
  • + 4
 Do inserts even help with sidewall cuts?
  • + 2
 No, they are designed to help protect against snakebite punctures. When the tire get gets banged against the rim. some (Cushcore and Vittoria and Swable) also help from a normal puncture so that you can make it down the hill or to your car without riding the tire directly on the rim, They provide a bit of cushion. Nothing out there (that I know of) other than a DH casing tire that will protect against sidewall cuts.
  • + 1
 I put in Cush Core this year for the first time, and it's game changing. Has nothing to do with flats, the feel the of the ride is much much better; Im running 22-24 psi now. I probably wont ever go with out them again.
  • + 1
 I weigh 180 and I find 10 psi front and rear is pretty awesome you should give it a try.
  • + 2
 I love the improved ride quality with the Cushcores, main reason why i’ve been riding them. The reduction in trail chatter and the cushioning on hard hits is real.
  • + 2
 Pump up your damn tires to where they belong, pull your pants up and GET OFF MY LAWN!
  • + 2
 I ride bike park with 650b, DH casing and a tube at 30PSI and i flat almost every day. Please help.
  • + 3
 pick better lines
  • + 1
 Try 31psi.
  • + 1
 I slip on my ass at that PSI riding park. 29.2555 ideal
  • + 1
 I bought 1.35mm thick tubes it might be insanely heavy but I made it through a day of gnar bar tech without flatting. viva le freeride tubes
  • + 0
 Does Pink Bike ever publish the results to these polls, or is it sinister marketing research? I'm interested in what people think, and would participate, if I could benefit from the info as well.
  • + 8
 You can see the poll results after you vote - that's as far as it goes. No marketing involved, although I'm sure some brands take note of the results of certain polls.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: Thanks, I'll give it a try. Smile
  • + 1
 I decidet to use chuck norris dh for rear when i switched to hardtail. And that was good decision nice traction and nicw resistence of rim.
  • + 3
 Lol at no i run tubeless? Thoughs are the people that need them the most!
  • + 1
 I’m so glad that I weigh 142 pounds. 2.8 on my hardtail get 11 and 13 psi. 2.5/2.4 on my dualie get 18 and 21 psi. Just EXO and sealant.
  • + 1
 I'm 125 and with bike park riding and racing I need to run over 23 psi if I don't want to destroy my wheels
  • + 2
 Ghetto tubeless on strong sidewalls works great for me...I am 220lbs and not new to the sport.
  • + 1
 Right on mate, works for me too, only 80kg though.
  • + 1
 The flat tire God’s will be fuming at all these people saying “I haven’t gotten a flat in forever” the world is doomed now
  • + 1
 Couldn't get the FTD installed... I intend to try again at some point... not as easy as the video makes it look that's for sure!
  • + 1
 When your local is fort william and you ride the downhill most weekends, its stupid not to run inserts if they save my rims once, then theyve paid for themselves!
  • + 1
 How does an insert affect your ride feel, it’s effectively a massive volume spacer. Meaning you will have a heap more ramp up in your tire damping?
  • + 1
 Huck Norris and TruckerCo. I still keep 30 psi, but there are those occasion f-me rocks and ledges, and since adding the Hucks, no rim pings.
  • + 1
 As far as I know it’s only the likes of the World Cup elite tha are blowing tires off their rims. Does the everyday rider need these things?
  • + 2
 Price is way too high for the inserts. Personally I'd probably give Cushcore I try if I could get a set for $50.
  • + 0
 i've ridden the schwalbe procore for the 2 last year ... great system but shitty to install and I don't even talk when you have a flat ... cushcore looks like easier to ride and safe for the rim as the schwalbe
  • + 1
 My trail bike (aka only bike) is already 35 lbs.... not sure I want to add even more weight.
  • + 1
 im running cush core and the difference is night and day if set up right, lower pressure and cant even feel rocks anymore
  • + 0
 Magic Mary 2.5 front, Maxxis High Roller 2.something(ish) rear, with $10 tubes, 35/30psi, no flats in tree years now... On a Canfield Yelliscreamy hardtail!
  • + 2
 I use quite relaible solution '30 psi in my minion's'
  • + 2
 Does anyone really care? still riding 26" and so far so good.
  • + 2
 26 ain't dead.....so I got 26" cushcores Smile
  • + 2
 I intentionally set up a carbon hardtail with long travel forks and 26" DT-1700 wheels for added strength without added weight. As I have written elsewhere, Huck Norris (rear only) and TruckerCo tubeless. Sub 25 lbs. of extremely flickable fun.
  • + 2
 I feel this only became an issue when bigger wheels appeared with wider rims

Also still on 26" with tubeless and never experienced any of these issues
  • + 2
 @somemorestufsamef:
same here
  • + 1
 I do but the foam cost $3 per wheel and works great so far. These off the shelf ones are crazy expensive.
  • + 2
 I’ll never NOT use inserts again!!!
  • + 2
 Tubes and patch kits. Old school. Works.
  • + 1
 I have a set of cushcore in my closet, but I haven't installed it yet because I'm too lazy Wink
  • + 1
 Completely pointless. Just pump up your tires!
  • + 16
 Yeah man, traction is overrated!
  • + 1
 @letsgoridebikes18: I run 27 psi front and back and never feel like I'm lacking grip. Also don't get flats and roll faster.
  • + 3
 So your take on bottomless tokens is to ditch them and just put more air in your fork/shock? "No loss of grip, i swear!!!"
  • + 7
 Not all of us are riding on paved roads.
  • + 1
 @makripper: When running tubes I’m would be around 28-30 psi. Tubeless with Huck Norris I run 22-24. Ridden rock oven, 6-Stitches, Bronco, etc. multiple times this year, wet, dry, mud, hero dirt. It’s a great setup!
  • + 0
 @makripper: You dont roll faster.
  • - 1
 @mikelevy: Never had a problem with grip. Cannot remember that last time I had a puncture.
  • + 3
 @JonnyTheWeasel: Hey, whatever works for you! And it sounds like that setup is working out just fine.
  • + 1
 @Ron-C: Basically that's the way to go. Bottomless token just shrink air volume and lead to a more progressive feel. Oh well "initially plush" ... Kind of pointless. There are more advanced solutions like IRT, AWK and other systems with two positive air chambers.
  • + 2
 @makripper: what you said- between 25-30 psi (tubeless) depending on terrain and no flats in 2 years.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: Yep. Works for me. I'm a heavy-footed rider and like knowing that my tires will stand up to abuse. Not saying that lower pressures are wrong of course.
  • + 1
 @JonnyTheWeasel @mikelevy honestly, when I've gone to a bike park I've run tubes and cranked my pressure to those levels because I hate changing flats at the park. I have to travel for bike park/dh riding so wasting time is frustrating. I picked up cushcores for my dh rig to run this year and I'm really looking forward to it. For someone like me who doesn't have much local rough stuff, I'm hoping a cushcore will help with no flats, better traction, and hopefully the damping will help with hand pain associated with smashing 5 days of first chair/last chair bike park laps.

Also, I'm 30 with a 20 year old mindset so sometimes I like to just send things that are probably beyond what I should be, so if I case or screw up somehow (not a rare occurrence) it's nice to have some insurance against smashing the shit out of my rims. If I ever become the better rider I hope I could be maybe they'll come back out, but until then, they will be front and back in the dh and trail bikes.
  • + 1
 @letsgoridebikes18: so with the added volume reduction you are probably close to the same 28 to 30 psi. Similar way a volume spacer in a shock works. I've ridden those trails with my 2.1 CST xc tires at 30 psi with tubes and no issues. No grip with those tires because cheap but scary af and fun.
  • + 1
 @TightAF: the higher the psi the less rolling resistance to a point. If you are running super low psi your tire conforms to alot more that's on the trail. Need to find a happy balance and a sweet spot where your tread does all the work
  • + 1
 @JonnyTheWeasel: 40 psi? Only time i come close is in Whistler lol
  • + 1
 @makripper: you are a legend riding those trails on such tiny tires! Haha

All that aside Code 4 is running awesome, need to go check out Prolapse. That will be a real test for the tires!
  • + 1
 @letsgoridebikes18: I wouldnt say legend haha wasn't smooth or fast at all :p suprised the frame didn't break either.
  • + 1
 Wider tires, more air. Things will go full circle...
  • + 1
 You can always use MOAR air tire inserts
  • + 0
 40psi, I crush rocks!!!!!
  • + 2
 You mean bounce off rocks?
  • + 0
 Fat rear wheel. Lots of pressure. Done.
  • + 0
 Giant money grab!!!! I don’t see the point in using them
  • + 1
 Inserts... Not in tire.
  • - 1
 You mean like inner tubes?
  • - 1
 Still running tubes on my bike!
  • + 2
 Same. Had tubeless for one day before I managed to fk it up. Some trail in Arizona had broken glass everrrywhere.
  • - 1
 swimming pool noodles are the absolute business.
Below threshold threads are hidden

Post a Comment



You must login to Pinkbike.
Don't have an account? Sign up

Join Pinkbike  Login
Copyright © 2000 - 2019. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.079587
Mobile Version of Website