Neko Mulally's Frameworks DH Bikes Now Available for Preorder

Nov 8, 2023 at 9:04
by Dario DiGiulio  
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Whether you've been following along since the beginning or are just now hearing about the Frameworks project, today marks a significant step in Neko Mulally's DH bike development saga. After about two years of development and refinement, Neko and the team have come to a point where they feel confident in the frame's performance and longevity - ready to release to the masses. There are 100 frames available in this first batch, with delivery expected sometime in early 2024.

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The newest iteration of the frame features a lower shock mount flip chip.
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Mounted into the CNC'd bottom bracket cluster.

The Frameworks DH bike, in its current iteration, is a 6061 aluminum front triangle with carbon fiber chainstays and seatstays, all connected by 7075 aluminum links and hardware. It uses a mixed-wheel layout (27.5" rear / 29" front), and runs a 250x75mm shock. The rear end is 12x148mm Boost spaced, implementing what at this point is the most common hub standard.

The offering is satisfyingly simple, in keeping with the frame itself. There are three shock offerings available with the frame, or you can get it sans-shock. Two sizes are available for now, in fairly typical reaches for the bulk of the sizing curve.

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Pricing isn't cheap, but stays competitive with other high end frames on the market. . The current ordering process requires a 50% downpayment, with the rest paid in full when the frame is ready to ship. The Frameworks bikes are backed by a 5-year warranty, with more details to follow on that as things get rolling through production.

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Frame, no shock | $3,950 USD.

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Frame, RockShox Super Deluxe Coil Ultimate | $4,400 USD.

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Frame, Fox DHX Factory | $4,450 USD.

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Frame, Öhlins TTX 22m.2 | $4,650 USD.

Kinematic charts are as follows, with more information available on their site. The Frameworks team has worked on shock tunes with each of the available models, and will provide personalized tuning advice relative to a given spring weight.

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Leverage rate.
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Pedal kickback.
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Anti-squat.
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Anti-rise.
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Axle path.

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For more details on the bikes, backstory on the project, or to place an order, head over to the Frameworks website.

Author Info:
dariodigiulio avatar

Member since Dec 25, 2016
149 articles

291 Comments
  • 298 11
 This is so cool. Congrats to Neko on this huge step in the development process. I'm not in the market for a DH bike, but this is still exciting news.
  • 69 6
 Me and my pet eagle want to have a word with whomever downvoted this.
  • 23 1
 @kkmb: No kidding. Neko is a class act and this project is nothing short of incredible. Congrats to Neko and the whole Frame Works team. Hopefully the Enduro bike will be soon to follow.
  • 56 1
 I am not in the market for a DH either, but I am like 2 more beers and a YT video away from ordering one....Big Grin
  • 167 2
 Its amazing to think that this bike was made by a rider who was specifically looking at the details to make a bike that riders want. Only for it to end up looking like a kona stinky from more than 20 years ago. It has the modern additions we want (flip chips) and leaves all other useless developments at the door. The final product is beautiful in and old/new school kind of way. a project like this really makes you rethink the high pivot/complex suspension layout options that all the brands seem to be flogging these days. If it remotely comparable to other frames it should be a beauty to ride/maintain, & and if you can polish that front triangle, it'll be a beauty to look at too.
  • 22 4
 Was going to say... new Stinky just dropped! I'm all for it! Well, except for the price... might have to make my own.
  • 33 1
 For what it's worth he experimented heavily with more complexity and high pivots and acknowledged that they had their advantages but also downsides - meaning at a minimum they are the right platform for some riders
  • 3 1
 @j-t-g: That's true. I'm not a high end racer, so I can't really parse suspension performance from many different bikes, because I don't have access to them, and wouldn't push them hard enough to even feel the difference. So you're correct on that.
  • 19 2
 Might look like a Stinky, or Dawg, or any of many 2000s era Konas, but definitely not going to act/ride like them.

Those "useless developments" were all part of the process of getting from there to here, not to mention that many of them are actually preferential and situational and just don't apply to Neko's use case.
  • 26 1
 Stinky had pivot on seatstays. This frame has pivot on chainstays. Should work quite differently.
  • 7 1
 @justinfoil: well I think what @Rexuis-Twin is bringing up is valid though, leave all the bougie marketing stuff behind and build a bike for "bikers". Santa Cruz needs to sell a lot of bikes and has CEO's / Shareholders to make happy, they need to race, more or less, what they sell to consumers. It would be interesting to see a no hold bared approach by the big manuf. to produce the best performing bike, cost and marketing hype be damned. You may start to see something sim to this? Atherton landed on a sim design with the same business concept.
  • 4 0
 It is more of a mid-high pivot, higher than a standard Horst link setup. If you watch his release video, he goes through the frame details.
  • 6 2
 @sxy-slo: You just had to be that guy didn't you.
  • 5 0
 It might vaguely resemble a Stinky but it only takes a millimeter or two change in pivot locations to dramatically change the suspension kinematics. Also, some ignorant people seem to believe that horst link is somehow antiquated or not as good as more complex suspension designs. In reality, Horst link can produce top tier kinematics and performance. It's probably the best suspension design we currently have for mountain bikes.
  • 7 2
 @RadBartTaylor: "cost and marketing hype be damned"

HAHAHAHA! You seem to not understand how modern capitalism works.

This is the bike Neko wanted: a limited run bike designed primarily for one single person. SC has to make a bunch of bikes that hopefully everybody wants. You can't forget that SC's DH bike, through many iterations, HAS gone through a similar process, albeit for an entire team and an eye towards large scale production, and it has won A LOT of races, and is loved by a lot of "bikers".
  • 5 1
 @jomacba: The guy with facts?
  • 2 0
 @justinfoil: idk the stinky rode pretty well I would ride it again
  • 2 1
 @sxy-slo: yeah it's different, but it's also basically the same
  • 5 0
 Long live the stinky
  • 2 0
 yeah, geometry wise it is like stinky as well, when chain stay same size as reach
  • 4 0
 @The-Wheel: Time has a funny way of distorting reality. I find I will often look back at old movies I've seen from back in the 90's with nostalgia, and think. "That was such a good movie". I then will rewatch them now, and realize... "Wow that movie was terrible!" I used to have a stab primo. That bike was brilliant... however I refuse to ride one again because...
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: haha yeah definitely not saying the stinky was anything great by today's standards. Definitely would take every part of Nekos bike over it... though the Junior T was pretty sweet
  • 2 0
 @The-Wheel: OG Konas were the shit. Everybody rode one. I was a Shiver man myself
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: I think I understand how it works just fine - they are not going to design a bike or use a different suspension design they don't think can sell, even if it worked better.

I think you are proving my point amigo.

I think SC bikes work great, I have one, but business is business where Neko's bike is not bound by those same constraints.
  • 9 0
 Someone needs to paint one of these up with early 2000's kona graphics
  • 2 7
flag Glory831Guy (Nov 8, 2023 at 18:45) (Below Threshold)
 I'm sure the geo and rear suspension are dialed for ripping, but idk, a 'cast' BB cluster sounds a bit sketchy. Most companies tout the stiffness of their BB, and head tube area.
  • 10 9
 @RadBartTaylor: What utter nonsense,
How is this any different than what Pivot does, or Norco, or Transition, or any other company that builds mountain bikes for people?
Stop waxing poetic about a guy who developed a DH bike, youre just buying into the marketing, its just a little more subtle.

I think what Neko did was great, he very openly worked through the development of the bike, but its just another form of marketing.....
  • 1 0
 @Glory831Guy: Maybe they meant forged? Pretty sure they wouldn't compromise the BB area by using an inappropriate manufacturing method.
  • 5 0
 @onawalk: I agree that it is a form of marketing, quite an "honest" one however, as the whole development process was very transparent and people connected because they were able to follow along. Also people tend to like the "one guy" efforts, esp. when it contrasts most of the industry.
  • 1 1
 @justwan-naride: It would have to be 2 welded halves if it was forged.
  • 3 1
 @onawalk: thanks - someone else saying it.
  • 2 1
 @justinfoil: The Stinky rode really well mate. Sad to see what's become of Kona now.
  • 2 0
 @chakaping: who said it was bad? I just said this bike would be different.

And what is wrong with Kona now? The Process line is great, the Honzo is basically a benchmark for its class, they have a great range of bikes for lots of different riders.
  • 2 1
 @onawalk: there is a BIG difference - he doesn't need to appeal to the masses in the same way the other companies do that need to sell and keep shareholders happy....he has a lot more flexibility. He is making the decisions vs relying on a marketing department of millennials to decide on what "color" is hot right now. He's not sitting in corporate meeting talking about how if XXX company is doing XYZ we need to follow suit if we think the consumers are going to like it regardless of what we think the right engineering call is.

He has autonomy is ways the others one you mention don't - you can look at what he did to see that, external routed, simple design, outside box thinking to a certain extent.
  • 2 1
 @justwan-naride: inappropriate? How would you know this? Cast alum can be very strong if done properly - Dunning Kruger at it's finest.
  • 3 3
 @RadBartTaylor: I understand you've bought into the idea, and you appreciate what hes done, so do I, hes done some great work.
However youre really taking credit away form these other companies, and their processes. All those brands were started by, employ, and design bikes for enthusiasts. Of course Norco makes bikes to appeal to everyone, but if you think theyre out making money loads of money on their Team DH (hoping thats the name of their new DH bike) youre dead wrong. They build K-cars, so they can fund the build of Vipers. Sure the team DH might be compromised for some, and be just perfect for others, but so is the FrameWorks bikes. All bikes are inheritly compromised, and dont appeal to everyone.
Lumping all "real riders" into a category of what their bike needs are, is not going to work, as there is no "real riders" its just something people say to make themselves feel better than others.
Of course Neko is making decisions on these bikes to be able to sell them, he has to, hes trying to make money from this, just like Pivot, Norco, etc. His corporate meeting might just be over a beer with FTW rather than in a board room, but they still happen
  • 2 2
 @RadBartTaylor: "he doesn't need to appeal to the masses in the same way the other companies do that need to sell and keep shareholders happy..."

If you think everyone else in the industry is making design decisions on DH bikes based on 'keeping shareholders happy,' I have some beachfront property to sell you in Utah.
  • 1 2
 They 100% are there to make money / keep shareholders happy - are you suggesting otherwise? It's how a business works, at least successful ones.

They (big companies) have defined boundaries they need to work between while Neko doesn't.....pretty apparent IMO.
  • 2 0
 @RadBartTaylor: which means what specifically in terms of bike design? Someone in the comments just posted the kinematics of this bike, and they're pretty much the same as the Trek Session, so this bike isn't the fabled unicorn that you and others are making it out to be.

DH bikes are designed to go fast on the roughest terrain, period. People don't design, build, and sell slow DH bikes. Speed sells for this type of bike, so no, the big brands aren't selling second rate bikes while their teams race unobtanium.
  • 2 0
 @RadBartTaylor: I can think of at least 10 DH bikes that break waaaaaaaaaay more boundaries than this one.

DH bikes offer very little to a large companies bottom line in terms of monetary value, I imagine some larger brands don't profit much if any from them when sales numbers are in the low hundreds, vs the development and race team costs - they are important as they allow for that DH race team, marketing, product / system testing, kudos, fun etc etc.
  • 1 2
 @justanotherusername: there are more to boundaries than design, things like alum frames. carbon stays, cast BB, simple / industrial design elements, sideways shock, gusset HT, made in the USA....none of that would fly in a corporate meeting at SC if you pitched it That is my point - he has free reign.....

As did Atherton, which is not technically the most sophisticated bike, but broke many boundaries from a manuf. perspective.
  • 1 2
 @Glory831Guy: I didn't say unicorn did I - zero clue where you get that from. My point is when you are not bound by corporate limitations you have more freedom.

Is this aimed at me? Do you think I need a lecture about how DH bikes work?
  • 3 0
 @RadBartTaylor: "Do you think I need a lecture about how DH bikes work?"

Apparently you do, if you think that-"It would be interesting to see a no hold bared approach by the big manuf. to produce the best performing bike, cost and marketing hype be damned"

I don't think you have a clue what traveling around the world, testing multiple protypes, and having a full crew of mechanics and engineers on hand at World Cups really entails if you wrote the previous quote.

You just have this cliche idea about corporations being shackled by Wall Street, and smaller companies doing it better when that's not the case. Look at what Specialized and Trek have been doing the last few years. Testing radically different designs and doing it successfully. Those two examples blow your 'only small, private companies can innovate,' idea out of the water.
  • 1 2
 @Glory831Guy: I guess we are done having a respectful conversation - strange.

I was asking the question not dictating a statement - learn to read between the lines my friend.

But I'll say - generally yes, they are bound by financial limitations....they would not build the best performing bike they could if they didn't think it could sell.
  • 3 1
 @RadBartTaylor: He was constrained by budget and resources and it shows, it is the opposite of unconstrained.

You are talking nonsense - the atherton bike uses the 5 bar suspension design licensed at cost from DW and one of the most unique construction methods in the industry allowing for custom geometry for every bike.
  • 1 1
 @justanotherusername: the opposite? Not sure I'd say that considering it's price, he could of made it MUCH cheaper. The opposite would be a Walmart, sorry, a Canadian Tire bike wouldn't it?

Atherton bikes are also a LOT more than this - go figure.

Do you honestly think if you were an engineer at SC and you decided to build a bike NOT using VPP, external routing out of Alum they'd be ok with that? They need to stay up with the Jonses (other manuf.) and don't have the flexibility Neko has....that's the point.
  • 4 0
 @RadBartTaylor: of course he was constrained by cost - how much do you think frame carbon mould is for example? - about $80k alone.

SC are wedded to the design so a poor example, how about intense? How about Commencal? How about canyon?

Staying up with the joneses is literally the pursuit of performance when taking about a race bike.

Are seriously suggesting this bike is the pinnacle of development and performance? Seriously?
  • 1 1
 @justanotherusername: go re-read my comment from the start for gods sake and quite being weird to make a point. I said "...interesting to see a no hold bared approach by the big manuf. to produce the best performing bike, cost and marketing hype be damned. You may start to see something sim to this?" Posing a question not dictating a postion.

I didn't say he was not constrained, you said "opposite" which indicates he had massive financial constraints when he clearly did not, pretty obvious when you look at the price and the build - but he has options most manuf. do not since he doesn't need to worry about using a design he is wedded to - you brought up the very point I was making with SC. SC MUST use VPP, even if there is a better option, they will not use DW link.....you don't think that is a constraint?

Pinnacle, for an average DH race, maybe? There is beauty in simplicity, ease of maintenance and durability.
  • 3 0
 @RadBartTaylor: he clearly did have massive financial constraints vs an established company, don’t be so silly.
  • 1 0
 @RadBartTaylor: I used the word inappropriate as Glory831Guy implied so about cast parts. I actually have no idea what casting bike parts involves. The company I work for does casting but for decorative items, not functional ones. I know there can be bubbles and various other imperfections that you wouldn't want in a part that gets stressed like a bike does but this applies to our own (low tech) processes.
  • 3 1
 Do most people really not realize the difference in a Stinky (low, single pivot) and this bike (mid, horst link)? Just because they look kinda similar? Crazy
  • 1 0
 @stubs179: I think most people know the difference. It doesn't change the fact that they look very similar.
  • 1 1
 @justanotherusername: $4k frame without shock - clearly massive constraints....
  • 1 0
 @RadBartTaylor: development budget and resources you eejit. As in being a guy with a copy of linkage and a laptop outsourcing all the manufacturing work vs a team of engineers with an R&D dept and in house manufacturing and a large budget to work with.

Are you being deliberately silly?
  • 1 0
 Have a 5 n 5 Stinky with a double crown Bomber when livin' out of a NorthVan basement suite. Rode it on everything and it just delivered. Such good memories of this tight little trail slayer. Open the seat qr drop that saddle, put the Roach pads on and give'r down Ladies or WBP. Way less monkey motion and better wheelbase than the VPS Shore that followed. This frame brings back those feelings and I hope this project moves ahead with a shorter travel version in the years ahead.
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: I'm not sure what you have meant with that. However I did ride that "beloved" Stinky back in the day.. Never really liked it. Commencal Meta on the other hand (circa 20 years ago) was quite fantastic ride though.
  • 1 0
 @The-Wheel: Indeed. It still retains the wheels, chain and crank.
  • 2 0
 @stubs179: Indeed, most people don't.
  • 1 2
 @justanotherusername: what is the quote? Oh yeah "when a debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers"....name calling just proves my point so stop.

Your missing the point dude - you think all that stuff done in house guarantees a "better" performing product? I mean Atherton bikes is a fairly simple design, sim sus design overall and it's won multiple world cups on a budget that is a fraction of what SC has.
  • 1 1
 @justanotherusername: Also if you think this is a "guy with a laptop" throwing something together you haven't got a clue which is pretty obvious:

youtu.be/PgQR9Gqye-g
  • 1 0
 @sxy-slo: I meant that we generally remember things to be better than they were. I also believe that bikes have gotten so good that we generally complain about things that once upon a time would have never been a thought.
  • 1 1
 @Glory831Guy: Most MX frames are a mixture of extruded aluminum tubing and cast sections. These bikes generally weigh anywhere between 200lbs-250lbs, and are sent to distances and heights that are easily 10× what you could do on a mountainbike.
  • 1 1
 @Glory831Guy: This statement is untrue. It would just be time consuming and expensive.
  • 122 1
 As someone who makes bespoke furniture for people I’m constantly trying to stress why bespoke/low volume things cost more than mass produced stuff from an established manufacturer…people going on about “this is crazy you can get a full build YT for that price” yeah you can, but they’ve shaved their manufacturing and purchasing costs down to a degree that a small scale company will likely never manage…so yeah, I wish them all the best because I know how it feels and that head tube is rocking my world
  • 91 2
 Everybody wants nice stuff, nobody wants to pay for it.
  • 28 0
 @haen: I pay for it, but I'm also now broke with a shit car and a nice bike ha
  • 6 0
 @Takaya94: priorities
  • 3 0
 @Takaya94: same here
  • 10 0
 Preach! I make high end custom aluminum rafting equipment and hear ya. I hope they sell all 100 today!
  • 3 0
 Do you have a webpage?
  • 1 0
 @haen: 100% on point for almost everything.
  • 11 21
flag justanotherusername (Nov 8, 2023 at 15:07) (Below Threshold)
 This isn’t bespoke though, is it?

It’s a production frame part made in China (or similar) and part USA, it isn’t bespoke made for each customer, there’s two sizes available.

@BGillespie - if they sell 100 in a day it’s the exact opposite of the custom work you do, it’s by definition a production frame.

What am I missing, why is this so romanticised?
  • 4 0
 Have you got an Instagram or a platform showing off your work?
  • 3 0
 @justanotherusername: because low volumes, which this still is, made in western countries cost alot to make. It's not like they make it for the same price as asian built products and slap a high mark up on it because they want to give off bespoke vibes. It's simple economics. You dpn't want to pay that much but something else. You think you can do it cheaper. Go for it and come back and tell us how much that first frame cost and how long it really took.
  • 6 4
 @devlincc: 100 (if it is 100) isn’t particularly low volume for a dh frame though and the swingarm is made in China.

I run a manufacturing company (cnc machining) - I understand the costs involved, I don’t care about the profit it’s the overall way PB seems romanticised by this frame, but not by a Kavenz or similar.
  • 3 0
 @samfr1000: yeah dude I can be found @ Liam Rush Designs
  • 3 0
 @justanotherusername: agreed, not low volume for a DH frame but is low volume for a bike maker in the style they are building, or low volume compared to a bunch of mid tier companies. Way more than I can build in a year, not that there is that level of demand for my bikes at the moment either.

I think why PB gets 'excited' or romaticises is a few factors. Some of which is why the punters seem enamoured by Neko's project as well. It's not just PB. A likeable American doing cool things with mostly american companies and sticking the big finger up at the establishment of the the big companies. That drags people from all corners in.

Part of PB's job is to create the stoke and not building the story around what Neko is doing would mean they aren't really doing their job. Neko is doing a great job of promoting himself. He's been super transparent and putting himself out there with videos and podcasts so Pb is just building on that and creating more traffic through their website. We forget sometimes that they are here to make money as much as they are here to be part of the community.
  • 3 1
 @justanotherusername: the carbon rear is made by VIP in Vietnam. They make frames for Yeti, Ibis, Pivot and others.

Let's keep our far eastern countries straight they're not all the same. That said I try not to buy stuff from communist countries so there or China isn't a huge difference to me personally.
  • 1 0
 Reminds me of my Intense FRO DH headtube....they also rocked!
  • 1 0
 @squiffybiker: Mate, this is some lovely stuff.
  • 127 6
 SMH at all the people saying "not for that price."

This is one of the most boutique of boutique projects where you can literally watch hours and hours of videos on how the bike came to be and the evolution from just an idea for a single frame to race all the way to actually deciding to go for a production run. There is a fanatical following of this project, and it's been pretty much the most interesting (positive) thing that has happened in Downhill in the last few years. People who are buying this bike aren't looking for value. They're buying a piece of living history and supporting a project that's given them enjoyment over the last two years. The "value" isn't just in the sum of the parts of the frame.
  • 6 1
 Agree their are boutique brands all over the cycling world that a lot of people would think are over priced and would never but are totally sweet IMO and this I would say is one of them.
  • 6 1
 Right on brother. It's an amazing project
  • 4 1
 I mean, for nearly the same price you can get a Retrotec frame that has no pivots, and is made of 4130, you're picking your own geometry, and get one color applied, but still. Seems like for a low volume complex bike, with some adjustability, and a five year warranty, it is about in line.
  • 4 2
 I love the story, most here on PB love the story, often however this love for the story doesn’t translate to a sale for many reasons.

Will you buy one?
  • 8 2
 @justanotherusername: As a 50 year old dad living near the “mountain bike capitol of the world” with zero viable downhill tracks closer than a 12 hour drive, I don’t think I’m in the market for a DH frame.

That being said, I would consider the enduro frame in the future at a similar price point.
  • 4 0
 Absolutely! but there is also value in the frame. The original welder who helped Neko, Frank the Mutha F%ckin Welder, is one of the greatest fabricators of the 21st century. So I guess yeah, one would own multiple parts of bike history. I have an FTW hardtail that regrettably hasn't seen enough dirt recently, but damn if it's not the coolest bike I've ever or will ever have!
  • 2 0
 @Hogfly: 2 years your senior, no kids, with Pajarito and Angel Fire 2 and 3 hours away respectively. Still, I'm no longer in the market for a DH bike, but will also be signing up for a FrameWorks enduro frame.
  • 2 3
 @Lostrodamus: so you would both immediately drop $4500 on an enduro version?

What do you ride now?
  • 13 0
 @justanotherusername: I ride a Knolly Chilcotin, and while I have no complaints about it, I would certainly invest in a FTW built enduro frame. I'm old enough to have ogled Spookys and Sinisters, and even worked on some old Yetis that FTW built.
For me this would be a combination of supporting Neko and what he's doing, getting a frame from a builder I've always admired, and investing in a race team and company that's doing something that I value.
I will freely admit that, especially as a middle-aged guy who's not nearly as fast as I used to be, a FrameWorks enduro frame isn't going to make the difference in any race results for me.
  • 3 12
flag corerider (Nov 8, 2023 at 17:05) (Below Threshold)
 @Hogfly: The mountain biking capital of the world is not in your country, not by a mile. Got to go a little Pacific Northwest for that.
  • 9 0
 @corerider: Pretty sure “mountain bike capitol of the world” is in quotes to denote sarcasm. Bentonville may bill itself as such, but that's pure marketing.
  • 10 0
 @corerider: Sorry that I didn’t make my sarcasm obvious enough with the quotes and mentioning being a 12 hour drive away from anywhere you need a DH bike.
  • 1 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: This is nearly twice the price of a Retrotc, heck its more than a retrotec Ti.
  • 1 0
 @Hogfly: If your "mountain bike capital of the world" has no downhill tracks within 12 hours it is clearly NOT the mountain bike capital of the world.
You have a ton of decent flow trails built with Wal Mart money, in one of the most miserably humid riding climates I've ever experienced. Mountain bike capital of the South is what it is, and it's nowhere comparable to truly epic places like Moab, Whistler, or the pnw in general.
  • 2 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: No shit dude. You clearly missed the sarcasm.
  • 54 0
 Frank the welder built?
  • 79 0
 All 100 of em
  • 17 1
 Can I put a Sinister decal on it?
  • 29 1
 @reks: Put a Spooky decal on it!
  • 6 15
flag justanotherusername (Nov 8, 2023 at 10:25) (Below Threshold)
 @dariodigiulio: I love what Neko has done here and the bike he’s made but 100 sales in a year may be a bit optimistic to say the least.

From what I was told some of the big boy brands only shift DH bikes and frames in the low hundreds per year.

Hopefully frameworks becomes a lasting brand - it’s been great watching it develop.
  • 2 0
 @reks:
LOL! I'm actually thinking of reaching out so I can put the head badge on my Sinister. That would be amazing! www.pinkbike.com/photo/16919543

Edit: Just noticed that it was embossed/etched. So much for head badge. LOL
  • 3 1
 @justanotherusername: They _made_ 100 in this batch, not sure where you got that he expected to sell them all in the next 12 months.
  • 16 0
 @justinfoil: they will make up to 100 in this batch. The 50% deposit gives them the capital to build and deliver mid February. They will only build as many are as ordered. Seems fairly low risk to me.
  • 6 0
 @pisgahgnar: even better. there is no explicit goal to sell 100 this year, they've just set 100 as an upper limit to temper expectations for this first batch if demand happens to blow up. which should be only good, very low risk, smart.
  • 4 3
 @justinfoil: as I say, DH bikes sell like shit - I know what the figures for one of the big brands were 5 yrs ago and it was in the low hundreds globally.

My point is that this is similar to the Atherton offering - the choice of the serious dh rider / racer and unlikely to reach 100 frames, not that it needs to.

These will be made to order, there won’t be 100 frames waiting in a warehouse.
  • 4 0
 @microfiz: @jengreenheadbadges and you can have what ever you want. As all bespoke crafts people say: "Any thing is possible if you are happy to pay for it".

But she will give you an estimate for your concept up front and then it is just like with everything else in life "you either want it or you realise you don't want it quite as much as you though you did".
  • 1 1
 @justanotherusername: so why is 100 in a year "a bit optimistic"? It doesn't hurt anything to say they can do 100, if they can, since as you said, there won't be any waiting in a warehouse. They're just being upfront with number to temper expectations.

Pretty sure Neko doesn't expect to become a ten-millionaire off this, he just realized he could get a custom bike for himself and also market a very decent bike as a small scale, and did it. Optimism is kind of important, otherwise it never would have happened.
  • 4 2
 @justinfoil: The line was ‘all 100 of em’ - that’s what I was responding to.

Optimism is fantastic and as Neko is in the business on sure he is rather realistic about his sale goals, hopefully he hits 100, hopefully this becomes as long term brand.

Optimism however isn’t preventing the bike industry from currently shitting itself and imploding, it’s one hell of a brave time to start trying to sell this kind of product.
  • 1 1
 @justanotherusername: that just referred to the fact that Frank is lined up for the entirety of this first batch of 100. Says nothing about selling all of that 100 this year, or at all, really.
  • 1 0
 The greatest!
  • 1 0
 @dariodigiulio: Just wondering if you know why they went with a cast aluminum bottom bracket? Just curious as I would have thought forged then machined would have been stronger and less susceptible to cracks?
  • 1 10
flag justanotherusername (Nov 8, 2023 at 23:52) (Below Threshold)
 @darkstar66: possibly an off the shelf part from a Far East supplier so easy / cheap to source and modify for use?
  • 1 0
 @darkstar66: its apparently a cnc'd piece according to Neko's last video. Made specific to the farme. Though does look like it might 3D printed with cnc finish. Forging is hellish expensive for small batches like this.
  • 2 0
 @justanotherusername: made by 5dev in San Diego
  • 1 0
 @jdejace: nice to know.
  • 19 1
 that headtube!!
  • 2 2
 If you want to see a head tube, check out the Knolly Tyaughton Ti. Engraved in Ti. I have one.
  • 14 0
 A good listen www.downtimepodcast.com/frameworks-launch and of course gives more depth than the above press release Smile
  • 8 0
 came here to say the same thing. so stoked for neko!
just wish i was in the market for a DH bike (and had a $5k frame budget haha)
  • 3 0
 Was just about to post this - KILLER pod and deets galore on the process, bike, etc. How the guy even has time to sleep at all is beyond me... irons in every fire
  • 2 0
 It was a great listen. I feel like if I were a privateer trying to cut my teeth in at the top end of national racing/WC entry, this would be a perfect bike.
  • 11 0
 Looks sick. Obviously the price is high, but I'm not sure what people expected for a hand-built frame with only 100 available? Mass-produced stuff is cheap because of economies of scale. Anyway, I'm sure these will sell out at that price – plenty of folks out there with money to burn and either (1) a desire to own a very unique bike or (2) interest in owning a little piece of MTB history. I'd be a little tempted to buy it myself if I had any use for a DH bike.
  • 7 3
 100 is actually a pretty big number for a DH bike, they aren’t the big sellers of the bike world.
  • 2 0
 Ya it's expensive, but almost the same price as a V10. Super cool project and a mostly made in America boutique frame. If I was in the market for DH bike, especially to race this year, I would pick one of these up in a heart beat. Unfortunately I am not currently looking for a DH bike.
  • 12 1
 Hang about.........So I'm looking at the welds and remembering how fast some were to slate the welds on every Orange....Not one comment and completely out of pinkbike commentators character.

I really like the look of this frame and backed up by a lengthy warranty (for a dh frame) but it is way out my current budget for 2024. I wish Neko all the success and hope this gets more momentum on next years DH WC. No names.
  • 3 0
 Orange did the 460mm chainstay first also and got slated for it in the pikebike review possibly justified.
  • 5 1
 At this point Orange could come out with the bike to end all bikes and market it at a tenth of the competition and people would still say the welds are shite. Flip side is Frameworks have stolen the PBers heart - be interesting to see if internet praise means sales, most on PB usually have strong words but weak pockets.
  • 2 0
 I came here to point out much better(so much) the welds are on my G1….and how much cheaper it is
  • 2 0
 @scary1: the G1 definitely looks good, Nicolas does a great job with their welds, and seems to have a solid following.
But the pricing doesn’t look too much cheaper though.
  • 1 1
 Because these welds aren't terrible.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: Orange did a 469mm rear on the Stage 6. I know two people who own that model and both bloody love them.
  • 1 0
 @chakaping: yep I think it’s a 460mm on the DH bike as well same length as the reach on a medium possibly which I remember being a point of hate in the pinkbike review.
  • 3 0
 @Lostrodamus: price is minus VAT if ordering a Nicolai from the US and Bike Components (their dealer) ships frames inexpensively. Depends a bit how the euro and dollar are doing but if you're actually interested in a Nicolai I'd call em up and crunch the numbers you might be surprised.
  • 1 0
 @jdejace: Verrrry interesting. Thanks for this, looks like getting a G1 from Nicolai would be significantly less expensive than from Geometron (Euro v. Pounds)
  • 1 0
 @justanotherusername: was a kinda "fan" of orange, but mine cracked 3 times in 9 months; all close or around the welds, and one dropout crack.
  • 10 0
 Maybe a head tube this big would look silly on an enduro bike, but man would it be nice if every bike could take a +/-9 headset without changing the rest of the geo/kinematics if the bike. As someone whose ideal reach is almost always dead center between almost medium and larges, I’d def consider a bike that had this option.
  • 4 0
 Guerilla Gravity essentially had this. It doesn’t look too crazy in the long position but looks totally ridiculous in the short position.

I don’t notice how it looks when I’m riding, which is what really matters I suppose.
  • 9 0
 I'm just speculating here, but I think what Neko is doing is different & may pan out very well because he's built such a big community & following with his videos while building this bike the past few years - at home in WNC and even among pro riders & talking heads

Aside from the build videos online Neko is a highly visible and locally known rider in western NC / US east coast, and in a sense a lot of riders would be willing to pay a little more money on a frame like this than one of them big companies that has them built in Taiwan. There is much more of a personal element and connection to something truly amazing, as well as a piece of functional art that just looks incredible. He's also a very humble and approachable guy, and I'm not saying other big bike or downhill bike makers are not, but he definitely is in a very distinct way

I have seen his "extra" DH frames that juniors and other riders have been riding almost every time I've been to a regional bike park - and they bought these frames (maybe not at 3900$ US a pop?). Thats maybe 15-20 frames (?) already.

The other thing going on here is that kid phenom Asa Vermette beat Gwin on this bike - and that is a pretty big promo alone. I'm probably speaking too early but of all the riders I've seen, Asa is going to be breathing down Jackson's neck in a couple years.

I am in the market for a downhill bike, but in spite of living nearby in WNC this announcement caught me by surprise - and now I'm got this top on my list. I hope anyone who loves downhill and has a connection to the sport will do the same. It's a lot more than a downhill bike – it's a whole community, a culture, a mind blowing physics / art / sport project & supporting a badass dude & his people.

It shows what can be done outside of Big Bike in a way that's more than just another pretty or even durable frame
  • 5 0
 Asa is definitely gonna make this frame get even more coverage next year that's for sure! can't wait to see him beat the whole junior field, should be a good junior season.
  • 5 0
 @mozsombi: I can't say what he'll do but it seems like he's gonna destroy...and the cool thing there is that it will also tow in the others. Win-win situation.
  • 7 0
 If I rode much DH, I'd be all over this thing. What a cool project!

The price is fine, really, it's a very special bike and the frame cost what, $800 more than a mainstream brand? For a lot of the world's bike riders' that just isn't enough $ to matter one way or the other to get something you really enjoy.
  • 4 7
 Until you realize there is not enough R+D and they all break at a critical point in less than a year......
  • 3 0
 @corerider: 5 year warranty with lots of R+D. Have a listen to the downtime podcast for heaps of great development background.
  • 4 0
 @corerider: clearly you haven’t watched any of Neko’s videos on the bike, or any of the other media he’s put out about the bike.
  • 1 3
 @TheSlayer99: Talk is cheap, time is the real test. I have been around long enough to know (and have seen) many bikes claimed to be "up to the task" but when really pushed they fold, sometimes literally. We will see.
  • 8 0
 My favorite bike brand at the moment. Would be very interested in the enduro bike if/when it’s available.
  • 3 0
 neko said they were coming next summer
  • 1 0
 Same.
  • 1 5
flag justanotherusername (Nov 8, 2023 at 13:15) (Below Threshold)
 Would you pay $4500 frame only for it? Genuine question.
  • 11 0
 @justanotherusername: For This particular builder, Yes.

A trek, a knolly, a rocky, a kona etc etc etc? Nah. 4500 for a frame, beat it.

But a 1 of. Fabbed by Frank, under Nekos banner. For all the good that man is doing for the sport and using FW as a vehicle to do so... Yes. Yes I would.

I mean I sunk 7k into a bespoke AF balls out Tyee, so why the hell wouldnt I drop 4500 on a DH frame hahaha
  • 3 0
 @KDix85: I am 100% with you on that idea. Same logic, yes I would because 1. Frank, 2. Neko, 3. USA made 4. East coast, I hope they ride as good as they look. I cannot wait for the enduro frame. Very excited to get my hands on one someday.
  • 8 0
 What's the seat angle? That straight tube makes me want to put a dropper
  • 6 1
 Whomever buys one, hope someone has that triangle mirror polished, with some Sharkhide potectant applied... and maybe back fill the logos with the theme of the users choice. That would look spectacular.
  • 13 1
 Neko is only selling them with a bead blast finish. His thinking is that ( a ) it's a race bike, and ( b ) any scratches can actually be scrubbed out with a Steelo pad. All bikes made currently have been hand rubbed down, but the batch run will get a bead blast as it is much much faster. He says he has no intention of painting them any colours, although he does respect the likes of Yeti who have made a colour their brand. The above is the same reason why there is no massive logo on the down tube.
  • 1 0
 Just buy an air or electric dynafile and go to town. Then repeat as needed based off oxidation.
  • 3 5
 @handynzl: I have eyes and ears. Tell me something I don't know.
  • 1 2
 @GTscoob: Easier to pay a professional.
  • 6 0
 It's pretty cool to see that the aluminum front triangle is made in the US. Are the carbon chain stays and seat stays also made in the US?
  • 1 7
flag handynzl (Nov 8, 2023 at 10:09) (Below Threshold)
 Yep. Neko even made a few. He got put in touch with the carbon guys that do the Crestline manufacture.
  • 4 0
 I hope he sells all 100 of them then goes on to make a thousand more. Dude's passionate about the sport and is dialed into the needs of DH racers...a category of rider to which I'll never belong, but admire nonetheless. Another cog in the wheel of bike frame evolution.
  • 4 0
 Just commenting to say that some friends and I saw Asa Vermette at the bottom of the Whole Enchilada a few weeks ago (seemed like a very nice dude), and the Frameworks trail bike he was on looked incredible-way better looking than my old raw aluminum Banshee would look after a long dusty trail ride. Angular in a cool way. Not sure what they finished it with but the welds looked pretty and the alloy looked like a slightly etched darker toned aluminum.
  • 2 0
 Question for anyone that’s been following the development of this bike and can answer: is the shock mounted 90* from the usual only for clearance, or did they determine that having the mounting hardware oriented to rotate closer to left-right out of the plane of the bike frame is more useful than fore-aft in the plane of the bike frame as the linkage moves through its cycle? Like to accommodate lateral flex at the upper link?
  • 21 1
 They rotated the shock 90° to eliminate the need to bend the downtube, making fabrication and alignment a bit easier.
  • 7 0
 Neko covered it in his most recent video on the frame here: youtu.be/nZADPtNg_Js?si=9Y8fAXIKJUn_FwJx&t=585

Basically sounds like it was done for clearance but could have potential side benefits similar to a spherical bearing.
  • 4 0
 To keep the adjusters clean. They had run it with the adjusters to the crank side thinking this would be good for wrenching on in the work stand, but they were always needing cleaning first. There was also an engineering benefit in making the BB CNC part more manufacturable.
  • 2 0
 @dariodigiulio: @aronburgundy @handynzl that’s cool thanks!
  • 5 0
 Love the idea but the pricing just shows how hard it is to make money in the bike industry.
  • 4 0
 I have been test riding one of his bikes for about a year now and I love it because it is the fastest bike I’ve ever ridden and it is really race oriented
  • 3 0
 This surely must be one of the biggest projects Frank has undertaked in many years. Id love to see what he has going on down in Bellows Falls.
  • 1 0
 Konalized Big Stinky or Specialona Stinkhit. No doubt rides awesome either way. Made in the USA is a bold move that should be supported though. Shows Neko is not just in it for the Dollas. Dude cares. Hope to see all hundo sell out quick for him.
  • 4 0
 No word on the steel version?
  • 10 0
 Listen to the Downtime Podcast and all will be revealed about the comfy steel frame Smile
  • 4 0
 Former pinkbike author Dan Roberts helped do the carbon rear end IIRC
  • 1 0
 Dan Roberts also works at RAAW, and I think was at Scott about the same time Neko rode for Gstaad-Scott DH team. I bring this up because I see some common trends across RAAW, Frameworks and circa 2015-2017ish Scott DH bikes, namely smooth, predictable leverage curves, high-ish pivots (mid-pivots?) without idlers, and the associated high ant-squat. I always wondered if Dan having a voice in all of these bikes is why
  • 2 0
 Congrats and thank you Neko!

Very impressed-with / grateful-for all you've been able to accomplish for the sport, especially on the East Coast.
  • 2 0
 Congratulations Neko! Congratulations to everyone involved in this project. This is a well thought out bike with extreme winning potential in the right hands.
  • 3 1
 Need to hear from Fox and others about the mini-yoke. Does the multi-axis movement really help more than the extra eye-to-eye length hurts?
  • 1 1
 How does extra eye-to-eye length hurt?
  • 1 0
 @reilly: more leverage against the damper shaft bushings and the eyelet end of the damper shaft. This little one is not much, but it's why many bikes with "yokes" don't cooperate with most coil shocks.
  • 1 1
 If you can shell out 4k for a frame you can afford to service a shock often.
  • 2 1
 looks pretty sweet, has a real BMX vibe with the headtube badge & gusset details. Carbon rear end seems a bit strange given that those parts often suffer abuse more frequently, but maybe they'll be cheap to replace ?
  • 4 0
 JEEBUS, external routing, this is the way.
  • 3 0
 If Neko can sell 100 of them, he can easily sell 1000 enduro frames in a matter. of minutes
  • 1 2
 He most probably won't.
  • 1 0
 No point in knowing reach if you don’t know at what height (stack) that reach number was measured. Kinda of like having a rifle scope with only one line instead of cross hairs.
  • 2 0
 FYI reach is measured from the center of the top of the headtube on all bikes, so it's a floating number for all bikes. Two otherwise identical bikes with 500mm reach length will have different wheelbases if one headtube is longer than the other.
  • 1 0
 @TEAM-ROBOT: does Vital know you are here?
  • 1 0
 @TEAM-ROBOT: Totally agree with everything you said but knowing the stack height at which the reach number was measured along with the head angle gives you the ability to know the true size of the bike and how it compares to other bikes from different manufacturers. A bike with a 460mm reach/620mm stack will feel different than a bike with a 460mm reach/645mm stack.
  • 1 0
 @TheBearDen: lol Vital is well aware that I wander around and get lost
  • 2 0
 @TEAM-ROBOT: so long as you are home before the street lamps turn on.
  • 3 0
 Please make the enduro bike next year!!! I will start saving now to get my hands on one of those I tell you what...
  • 2 0
 Looks like the bikes I wrenched on in 1994...as they should Frank welded them haha. Congrats on getting to the preorder phase.
  • 1 0
 Would be interested to watch a DH race series where competitors only use the standard frame on offer here. All other components would be of their own choice. sort of a Pinkbike Academy meets Frameworks stock series.
  • 1 1
 Definitely a cool project and a major accomplishment.

Apart from being a micro boutique brand with a front triangle made in USA that we should love to support...

From a performance - everything that matters when riding - perspective, why would you buy this over a Scott Gambler (aluminum or carbon), which is a super refined work of art, is mullet or 29 ready, with a lower shock flip chip?
  • 1 0
 Stunning how little recognition is given to Nicholai and Pole for innovating this geo in the modern Mtb realm. Long reach, long chainstays, long wheelbase, that's where it came from in the here & now:/
  • 1 0
 is shock slightly offset to one side to center it since it's sideways? Kind of looks like it from once of the pics - the spring and reservoir seems to be centered.
  • 2 0
 I spent a stupidly long amount of time trying to figure out the meaning of SS37, internet is rotting my brain
  • 4 0
 Bombe, Alder.
  • 3 4
 Nice!
But get to work (i.e. complain) - can someone enlighten me why are most bike companies creating bikes with sizing such that an average male from Canada/US or Western EU (which means 99% of customers for high-end MTBs) is always just between M and L??? Which basically means that the bike is either too small or too big for an average customer?
  • 4 1
 Headtube specifically designed to fit reach adjust headsets. So shouldn't be an issue for this bike.

youtu.be/nZADPtNg_Js?si=hVN3n8i0e61RYk1t&t=330
  • 2 0
 The lower shockmount is brilliant, same solution as spherical bearing, but probably twice as robust.
  • 1 2
 It seems like with a few adjustments it could be an modern enduro rig. At the least routing for a dropper could be added and different link plates to change the travel. That said, this seems like a very niche product for a small number of people that will appreciate it.
  • 1 0
 I need to put it in Linkage to check if this could be my next enduro(with a 190 fork). The straight seattube looks like it would take a dropper
  • 3 0
 Fw >atherton bikes? Or….
  • 1 1
 Ironic to see Neko's frame has striking similarities to the new Scott Gambler since he was once a sponsored Scott athlete. While there are nuance differences in geometry the platform and silhouette are very similar.
  • 3 0
 I want one so bad.
  • 2 0
 Why did he decide to go with aluminum front triangle and carbon rear?
  • 4 1
 stiffness and un-sprung weight
  • 3 0
 Watch the video series he made. Cost vs benefits tradeoff: CFRP molds are expensive. He wanted the keep the freedom to change the front as needed, but the rear could remain fixed and reap the other benefits of CFRP.
  • 3 0
 he explains it in his video, unsprung mass and the fact carbon is a much better material and as such the bolts line up every time. Exactly why most alloy Bikes not made by Merida's factory are out of alignment, Merida have the best mass production alloy bikes.
  • 3 0
 He pulled 800g out of the unsprung weight going to carbon. Also they come out straight every time, unlike the alloy versions that after heat treatment can be out of alignment.
  • 1 0
 I love everything ab this but the price.. but it’s hand made in the US so I’m not complaining too much.. but I am
  • 2 0
 Get Danny Hart on one along with Sam Hill
  • 1 0
 I wish Neko the best and if I was in the position to, I would buy one for the headtube/badge alone.
  • 1 0
 Beautiful. I know people pay 5k for a sculpture, and this is definitely art but I am most certainly not the market for this
  • 3 0
 THIS IS THE BIKE MAN!
  • 2 0
 Good god that is expensive!
  • 1 0
 Congrats! I enjoyed the videos, of your process. Insightful and very cool
  • 2 2
 Awesome, I'd be happy with just that top gusset on its own, turned into a bottle opener, hint hint.
  • 1 1
 Neko needs a new photoshop guy... the edges on those product photos are rough
  • 1 0
 Rock Creek demo bike someday????!!!!
  • 1 0
 I'll come back when they open orders for the steel framed version.
  • 2 0
 Wow, such innovation...
  • 1 0
 love it - gonna take some diehard dh fans to shift them
  • 1 0
 Pretty standard BB height... for an enduro bike anyway.
  • 1 0
 Looks sick
  • 2 1
 looks linke a raw RAAW
  • 1 0
 its actually very similar kinematics and geometry too, except of course the RAAW Yalla is full 29
  • 1 0
 modern nostalgia
  • 2 1
 looks like a Session Big Grin
  • 3 3
 Some one explain to me why this is worth 4k?
  • 1 0
 best to listen to the podcasts he has been on (downtime) short of it seems, its small batch, lots of time, energy etc made by FTW.
  • 1 0
 would rag in mini mullet
  • 1 2
 And just like that we’ve hit peak mtb folks, 4K for four bars…what a joke
  • 2 3
 Shock is sideways... but why?
  • 1 0
 haven't kept up with the vids but, I would guess he wants to keep C.O.G low but there's not enough room for the piggy back to fit??
  • 1 4
 Is that a Kona Stinky from 2002?
  • 2 0
 Would like to try one even though I can’t afford one.
  • 1 0
 Looks like my 2010 Stab
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