Dartmoor TechTalk #1 - Frames Primal & Hornet

Feb 20, 2015 at 2:21
by Dartmoor-Bikes  
 RideYourWay video series from Dartmoor Bikes this time with Remek Oleszkiewicz and his friend Aleksander Wieczorkiewicz riding Primals and Hornet 2014

Looking at the bicycle it seems as a pretty simple thing which we all perfectly know. But for sure you know this feeling when it comes to make a choice for yourself - things suddenly become much more complicated and a lot of questions come to your mind which need to be verified with the expert.

That is why we have decided to start a TechTalk monthly series, and gave our fans a possibility to ask any questions on our facebook fanpage - it doesn't matter if they have a pure theoretical doubts or they need an advice about proper wheel size. Our R&D manager and technical designer - Jan 'Elvis' Kilinski - will be dealing with all of doubts and questions once a month to help our fans with the secrets of setting a perfect bike. Elvis is a main technical brain behind Dartmoor-Bikes responsible for most of the new designs with long experience in gravity riding.

The subject of the first TechTalk was 'Primal and Hornet - Trail, Enduro and Freeride on hardtails'. Below you will find questions from our fans and answers prepared by Jan.

Hornet and Primal frames geometry

Dartmoor Hornet and Primal frames seem pretty similar and many of you think they should be used for the same type of riding. However we decided to split one of our most popular products definetely on purpose – old Hornet (frames produced before 2014) was transformed into 2 different constructions: new Hornet (frames produced after 2014) and new Primal. Now Hornet is dedicated more for Freeride and aggressive Enduro while Primal was made for the quickly growing number of All Mountain and soft Enduro riders.
I guess you’re wondering now what is your type of riding? Well, lets start with a quick poll and a few simple questions below:

1. Are you going to ride jumps over 2m long and drops over 0,5m ?
If the answer is YES – choose Hornet
If the answer is NO – go further.

2. Are you going to ride in the mountains? What kind of riding will you prefer?
If the answer is YES and you’d like to explore mountains looking for both technical downhills as well as demanding uphills then Primal is the proper choice for your style. It is also a proper bike for anyone shredding local singletracks.
If you rather spend more time in bikeparks with chairlift, looking for tough freeride lines but also reaching mountain tops from time to time you should equip yourself with Hornet.

Now when we know which is the proper frame for you it is time to choose the size of frame and size of wheels. These charts should help you with frame and wheels fitting depending on your riding style and height:

Dartmoor Primal and Hornet frame fitting

And here are the other FAQ’s about Primal and Hornet frames:

1. What is the maximum tire size compatible with those frames?
27.5x2.35 for both of them (Hornet & Primal).

2. What is the maximum disc brake size?
203mm for Hornet and 185mm for Primal

3. Is it possible to use the front derailleur?
Only e-type bottom bracket mounted derailleurs on Hornet frames.
It is easy for Primal frames from 2015 production - just use the 'low clamp' with top pull version.

4. What is the recommended fork travel for those frames?
Optimal fork travel for Hornet is 160mm but the frame welcomes all forks between 140mm and 180mm travel.
120mm to 140mm travel is recommended for Primal frames but first of all it depends on your riding style and skills.

Primal and Hornet frames - geo comparison

5. I recently bought a Hornet frame and I just want to know if I can put a Hollowtech 2 bottom braket on it.
Yes, Hornet and Primal are both compatible with Hollowtech 2 standard. Bottom bracket size is a 73mm Euro BB standard.

6. I can’t make a choice between Hornet and Primal. I’d like to build a bike with Fox 32 fork with 130mm travel. My main style will be riding on the common trails but I would like to try pumptracks as well. Is it possible to build a single bike for both of these purposes or should I pick a frame for mountain biking only and focus on it?
There is nothing like a single bike perfect for all kinds of riding. But our Primal frame with this fork should also ride well on the pumptracks. If you will ride there more often - you will decide on your own if you need another bike for racing.

 RideYourWay video series from Dartmoor Bikes this time with Remek Oleszkiewicz and his friend Aleksander Wieczorkiewicz riding Primals and Hornet 2014

7. I'd like to buy a Hornet frame. But I can't determine the proper size of the frame for me. My height is 184cm. And the seam from the crotch to the bottom of the leg is 81 cm. So can you tell me which size of the frame is the best for me - M or L? The bike wille be used for freeride, aggressive enduro, pumptrack, singletrack, urban freeride and a lot of bunnyhops.
You have definetely more aggressive style of riding so according to our frame fitting chart with your height the recommended frame size is M (16").

8. I'd Iike to know if the BB tube and the head tube of Primal frames are already milled for installing the bottom bracket and the headset and if there is a headset included.
Both head tube and bottom bracket tube are milled before painting. It helps with performance and makes the assembling easier. Headset is not included in the frameset. We recommend Dartmoor Blink headset which is compatible with both fork standards – tapered and 1-1/8”.

Dartmoor Primal 2015 Pro - Red Devil Finish

9. I can’t find any information about the possibility of assembling the rear carrier. Is it possible to use one with Primal or Hornet?
None of them has these mounts. But Primal has holes for assembling the bottle cage.

Dartmoor Primal 2015 Basic - Petrol Finish

10. I’d like to buy a 18” Dartmoor Hornet frame and my question is what is the minimum depth of the seat post insert? I am going to use 400mm seat post mounted in for around 130mm. Is it enough for the seat tube? My weight is around 85-90kg.
We recommend at least 150mm of the seat post length hidden in the seat tube to make it secure and strong enough.

11. I’d like to use Primal frame build on a rigid fork with height similar to 100mm travel forks and use it mostly for trekking and XC riding.
With this kind of short fork the frame will have typical XC angles. We don’t recommend such a set the frame should handle it if you will not use it for jumping.

12. What is the proper size of Shimano BB-ES25 axle used with Octalink Shimano M522 crankset in Dartmoor Primal?
You should use 121mm length.

13. I am going to buy 2014 Dartmoor Hornet, but I found some info that it has limited space for the rear tire. Is it only about the older models or does it stay the same for the new ones? I’d like to use 2.5” Minion and 2.35” Butcher tires.
Using 2.5 tires on 27.5” wheels will be not possible. 26” should handle it but it will have very limited space for the mud.

Dartmoor Hornet 2015 frames



12 Comments

  • 2 0
 Great article! Seems like the Hornet is better for my style of riding. The Primal is one of my favorite frames though when it comes to looks on new school frames. Didnt get the chance to ride one yet but it seems to be very interesting for when i'll have to replace my current frame.
  • 3 0
 Hi there, i want to buy a Primal but still confused about the size. I am 175cm. My riding style is AM and Street riding. bunny hops a lot. should i go size S or M?
  • 2 0
 Hi am looking to by à Hornet frame m'y height is 5 foot 10 .155 cm and on thé charte it would be à 16'' is that not kind of smal for enduro riding it think the 18'' would be better ?

THANKS
  • 2 0
 Hi there, I just bought a 2015 Hornet, so stoked, but does the rear axle come with the frame? Thanks Big Grin
  • 2 0
 Yes, it comes !
  • 2 0
 Excellent! Thanks!
  • 1 0
 @dart-bikes: hey guys, one question, is the bb pressfit or threaded, i don't know a thing about bb's. Can i put an sram bb92 or an sram gxp?
  • 1 0
 Hi. I want to consult. I have fork with 100mm travel can i use it for Hornet?
  • 2 1
 Is the geometry for a Hornet FR with 26' wheels the same as 27.5?
  • 2 0
 The BB height is changing
  • 1 0
 Copy that.
  • 1 0
 won't the head angle be slacker with a 27.5 fork compared to a 26? the pike is 10mm longer in 27.5 form. so using a 150mm 26 pike would be 20mm shorter than a 160mm 27.5 pike meaning approx 1 degree shallower compared to the info above for the hornet.





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